Cochrane - Void Dero's Contract

[Pendrith]

DeRosario made Earl Cochrane look like an idiot when Cochrane said Dero would not be trialing with any Club and today he shows up trialing with Celtic. I don't think the fans will want Dero back. Cochrane has to either void his contract or trade him for a 4th round draft choice. At this point, I don't want to see Dero at TFC.

[Beach_Red]

DeRosario made Earl Cochrane look like an idiot when Cochrane said Dero would not be trialing with any Club and today he shows up trialing with Celtic. I don't think the fans will want Dero back. Cochrane has to either void his contract or trade him for a 4th round draft choice. At this point, I don't want to see Dero at TFC.

Or resign?

It's a little early to make up your mind about what's going on here, isn't it? Can we really say that TFC has always been 100% truthful with everyone they've dealt with?

[Nuvinho]

Cochrane or TFC can't do anything, they don't own the contract. MLS does.

[Pendrith]

MLS will follow the wishes of TFC on player transactions.

[TFC Bhoy]

the thing is you don't know 100% what happened so I don't think this is fair to say. IF he did completely go on his own without TFC FO knowing, than sure. However, as I mentioned in the other thread, I find it odd that knowing the way MLS works, that Celtic would take a guy on trail who they KNOW is on contract with another team, without the other team knowing it. Maybe they did, but seems unlikely to me.
So until the full truth comes u (if it ever will), than I think its a bit early to be saying this. For all we know Cochrane DID he him permission and is just doing this to make DeRo look bad. Do I think that happened? No, but I don't think its impossible either.

[Waggy]

Or resign?

It's a little early to make up your mind about what's going on here, isn't it? Can we really say that TFC has always been 100% truthful with everyone they've dealt with?

Why would Cochrane lie about Dero being a trialist when its about to become public information? So he can look stupid? To make MLSE look incompetent? If he did lie then what was the objective?

As to things Cochrane can do: Nothing. But really, can he do any worse than Dero becoming absolutely hated by his home town? Dero will be run out of town if this is true. He will never be welcome back. Ever. Even Roogsy would have a hard time defending Dero if he did this without TFC's knowledge. He turned his back on the club and the city, and the city and club will do the same. I guess it always was a mercenaries destiny.

[Waggy]

the thing is you don't know 100% what happened so I don't think this is fair to say. IF he did completely go on his own without TFC FO knowing, than sure. However, as I mentioned in the other thread, I find it odd that knowing the way MLS works, that Celtic would take a guy on trail who they KNOW is on contract with another team, without the other team knowing it. Maybe they did, but seems unlikely to me.
So until the full truth comes u (if it ever will), than I think its a bit early to be saying this. For all we know Cochrane DID he him permission and is just doing this to make DeRo look bad. Do I think that happened? No, but I don't think its impossible either.

Cause, as was mentioned, TFC doesn't own Deros contract, MLS does. God knows they do their share of tampering around teams, I don't think we need to go through all the examples. Either way, didn't Dero HIMSELF deny this the other day? If he wasn't doing anything wrong by going on the trial, why did HE lie about it?

[ArmenJBX]

I say void it and boo him out of BMO Field.
A large banner, perhaps with DeRos face on it, money signs on his eyes, and "We Dont Need You" written on it?
In any case, I pray his trial fails AND we void his contract. This has made me lose any amount of respect I had for him. He's the captain ffs.

[[NBF]]

I thought I saw last night's FSC Soccer Report say that Celtic had never heard of TFC's DeRosario until the rumours of him being associated with Celtic emerged.

Celtic now have asked for video of DeRosario, but that's it as far as anyone is saying.

[djcuse]

I say void it and boo him out of BMO Field.
A large banner, perhaps with DeRos face on it, money signs on his eyes, and "We Dont Need You" written on it?
In any case, I pray his trial fails AND we void his contract. This has made me lose any amount of respect I had for him. He's the captain ffs.

Really, we don't need the guy who scored nearly 50% of our goals?
Without DeRo's skills this year, we would have finished dead last in the league...

[Damien]

Don't void the contract... GET SOMETHING FOR HIM!

If he's going to leave anyway don't walk away empty handed. Get a transfer fee for him.

[ArmenJBX]

He's replaceable

[[NBF]]

I say void it and boo him out of BMO Field.
A large banner, perhaps with DeRos face on it, money signs on his eyes, and "We Dont Need You" written on it?
In any case, I pray his trial fails AND we void his contract. This has made me lose any amount of respect I had for him. He's the captain ffs.

Any player can move to another club as long as the other club has permission to approach the player. The question is compensation.

If DeRosario was going on loan to Celtic, do you really think Earl Cochrane has any say in it, or would have any ground to stand on to comment about it? I do believe he holds the interim title, which pretty much means that he is someone else's patsy, be it Richard Peddie or Anselmi or Klinsmann, Earl Cochrane holds no say about any of those matters.

If this is an official approach by Celtic, I'm sure it will be for depth and an offer to loan him.

If other clubs in the SPL do approach for DeRosario; DeRosario's skill and athleticism in the SPL, would be comparable to Scott Parker's from West Ham in the BPL.

[Batman]

Don't void the contract... GET SOMETHING FOR HIM!

If he's going to leave anyway don't walk away empty handed. Get a transfer fee for him.

absolutely.

[Menelaos]

Really, we don't need the guy who scored nearly 50% of our goals?
Without DeRo's skills this year, we would have finished dead last in the league...

What you, and all others who make that same argument, are assuming, is that nobody would be brought in for the $. That somehow, TFC would be content with playing with only Chad in the front.

We don't know where they would have been with someone else in place (because that is trully what would have happened). What we do know, is we didn't make the playoffs.

[wzhxvy]

Voiding his contract is the last thing they should do.

[Kooper]

Voiding his contract is the last thing they should do.

I agree voiding his contract would be the STUPIDEST they could do. They would have to pay him severence and lose the ability of where he can go. If he wants to go to Celtic make it a full transfer and make some money on him. I am not saying we could do better because an MLS all star at 300K is a pretty good deal.

[BASE]

Cause, as was mentioned, TFC doesn't own Deros contract, MLS does. God knows they do their share of tampering around teams, I don't think we need to go through all the examples. ?

Please do give us some examples.

I've been following the league closely since 1995 (yes one year before they kicked a ball) and the league has been very fair considering the management structure.

How some of you come up with these random statements is beyond me.

[[NBF]]

What you, and all others who make that same argument, are assuming, is that nobody would be brought in for the $. That somehow, TFC would be content with playing with only Chad in the front.

We don't know where they would have been with someone else in place (because that is trully what would have happened). What we do know, is we didn't make the playoffs.

Maurice Edu = $5 million(some which went to MLS)

What did we get for him?

:drinking:Grass------>Happy DeRosario------>DeGuzman------>Angry DeRosario.

The question has always been where's the compensation for DeRosario? He was always been the best option for the club and he has performed better than he has in the past 2 seasons before joining TFC. The man is due.

A little off track from the thread topic, shit is going to hit the fan when DeGuzman is either let go or "when" he is disgruntled with TFC. I think this year. Mark my words.

[BASE]

Really, we don't need the guy who scored nearly 50% of our goals?
Without DeRo's skills this year, we would have finished dead last in the league...

Exactly!!!

Without De Ro how many points would this team have finsihed with? Does anyone have the time to look this up?

[Waggy]

Please do give us some examples.

I've been following the league closely since 1995 (yes one year before they kicked a ball) and the league has been very fair considering the management structure.

How some of you come up with these random statements is beyond me.

I'm at work so I can't do the research to give all examples, but the ones that that leap to mind are McBride going to Chicago, and Dero coming to Toronto. Plus the looking the other way over Seattle tampering before they came into MLS

[Waggy]

Also- where are these people who I've never seen posting on these boards coming from? It seems like the only people defending Dero are people I don't recognize. Not even Roogsy is defending him here. Where were you guys when TFC didn't show up in NYC a year and a half ago (and where was Dero)? Where were you guys when TFC couldn't buy a goal over long stretches of time? Where were you guys when Dero did such a distracting selfish post goal celebration that the other team scored seconds after play resumed? Everyone keeps talking about how terrible TFC would be without Dero- late breaking news: TFC is terrible WITH Dero!

[Razcle]

Wow. I am thankful the majority of you guys don't run TFC. Whether DeRo Signs a LT contract or a loan deal or nothing with Celtic, I applaude him for being as good as he is to deserve this recognition. He has not turned his back on anyone yet.

Wait and see how it all plays out, and if he comes back to us, welcome him and cheer him on to help lead our team to glory.

At the end of the day it all about the badge and the players that wear it, DeRo or not. Remember he is our leading goal scorer in our history and has arguably won us more games than any other player.

Have a little respect.

[[NBF]]

Please do give us some examples.

I've been following the league closely since 1995 (yes one year before they kicked a ball) and the league has been very fair considering the management structure.

How some of you come up with these random statements is beyond me.

Ex.1. The Beckham Rule- Giving a team a chance to sign a "DP" player that would not count against the cap. (L.A. Galaxy)

Ex.2. The 2nd DP Rule- Allowing teams to sign a second DP player. Galaxy wanted to hold onto the chosen one, Landon Donovan, by giving him a DP contract.(L.A. Galaxy)

Ex.3. TFC's International Slots- Massive advantage given to TFC thanks to MO because he couldn't do his job in Canada.(Toronto FC)

Ex.4. DeRosario to TFC for Julian James and a 3rd Round Pick? No explanation needed.(Toronto FC)

Ex.5. The 3rd DP Rule- So that NYRB could sign Thierry Henry, Marquez and Juan Pablo Angel as DP's.(NYRedBulls)

[Suds]

Wow. I am thankful the majority of you guys don't run TFC. Whether DeRo Signs a LT contract or a loan deal or nothing with Celtic, I applaude him for being as good as he is to deserve this recognition. He has not turned his back on anyone yet.

Wait and see how it all plays out, and if he comes back to us, welcome him and cheer him on to help lead our team to glory.

At the end of the day it all about the badge and the players that wear it, DeRo or not. Remember he is our leading goal scorer in our history and has arguably won us more games than any other player.

Have a little respect.


He went behind the club's back and went on trial with Celtic. Our GM was not informed or contacted about this.

If he informed the club and got permission I would have no issue with it. I have no issue with any athlete trying to play at the highest level and make the most money they can. But to do this without TFC's permission is not the way to go about it.

[djcuse]

Wow. I am thankful the majority of you guys don't run TFC. Whether DeRo Signs a LT contract or a loan deal or nothing with Celtic, I applaude him for being as good as he is to deserve this recognition. He has not turned his back on anyone yet.

Wait and see how it all plays out, and if he comes back to us, welcome him and cheer him on to help lead our team to glory.

At the end of the day it all about the badge and the players that wear it, DeRo or not. Remember he is our leading goal scorer in our history and has arguably won us more games than any other player.

Have a little respect.

AMEN Razcle!

[TFCRegina]

No thanks.

[Beach_Red]

He went behind the club's back and went on trial with Celtic. Our GM was not informed or contacted about this.

If he informed the club and got permission I would have no issue with it. I have no issue with any athlete trying to play at the highest level and make the most money they can. But to do this without TFC's permission is not the way to go about it.

Our "interim" GM. Or has it been made official? Does anyone know what's going on with this team? Are trials cleared by the team, or does the league hold the contract? Or does the consultant have a say? Are the league and TFC on speaking terms after Garber had to come and straighten out the MLS Cup fiasco MLSE created?

This team is looking more like "Major League" every day. It really is a comedy routine.

[wzhxvy]

Wow. I am thankful the majority of you guys don't run TFC. Whether DeRo Signs a LT contract or a loan deal or nothing with Celtic, I applaude him for being as good as he is to deserve this recognition. He has not turned his back on anyone yet.

Wait and see how it all plays out, and if he comes back to us, welcome him and cheer him on to help lead our team to glory.

At the end of the day it all about the badge and the players that wear it, DeRo or not. Remember he is our leading goal scorer in our history and has arguably won us more games than any other player.

Have a little respect.

Did you read the official statement from TFC ?

People earn respect by their actions and honouring their commitments. Dero has a contract with TFC/MLS and did not seek approval for the trial. If he did, that would be a different story but in this case he is 100% wrong.

[Suds]

Our "interim" GM. Or has it been made official? Does anyone know what's going on with this team? Are trials cleared by the team, or does the league hold the contract? Or does the consultant have a say? Are the league and TFC on speaking terms after Garber had to come and straighten out the MLS Cup fiasco MLSE created?

This team is looking more like "Major League" every day. It really is a comedy routine.

Interim or not, DeRo's agent knows how to get in touch with Earl Cochrane. It's pretty clear DeRo or his agent did not contact him.

He needs permission from the club. If TFC decided they would let him go the negotiation would take place between the MLS and Celtic. MLS can't just pluck players off teams and sell them or send them out on loan at will without talking to the club. You don't think this is really how it works do you?

[Roogsy]

Also- where are these people who I've never seen posting on these boards coming from? It seems like the only people defending Dero are people I don't recognize. Not even Roogsy is defending him here. Where were you guys when TFC didn't show up in NYC a year and a half ago (and where was Dero)? Where were you guys when TFC couldn't buy a goal over long stretches of time? Where were you guys when Dero did such a distracting selfish post goal celebration that the other team scored seconds after play resumed? Everyone keeps talking about how terrible TFC would be without Dero- late breaking news: TFC is terrible WITH Dero!


:lol: I just woke up bro. Fuck me... :rolleyes:

Anyways, I am having a good laugh at reading all of this. People are freaking out because DeRo wants to trial somewhere. Somehow this is news. I will be honest and say I didn't know about him already being there, but I knew he wanted to trial there. What his agent did to get him there I don't know but people here are acting like he's betrayed them personally. Honestly to me, this is actually more evidence that the TFC FO is a mess. You'd think we would have a problem with that as opposed to a player who is taking care of business for himself.

Just a quick question...before people started freaking out and posting their rage, did anyone actually lookup to see if DeRo has contravened any rules in the CBA? Because I will be honest, I don't know myself.

[Juanito]

I'm tired of all this De Rosario drama. If he is NOT happy with MLSE, trade him or sell him to Europe if that is what he really wants.

Maybe we can take the money and build a proper squad. At the very least, we won't have the DeRo sideshow anymore.

[wzhxvy]

:lol: I just woke up bro. Fuck me... :rolleyes:

Anyways, I am having a good laugh at reading all of this. People are freaking out because DeRo wants to trial somewhere. Somehow this is news. I will be honest and say I didn't know about him already being there, but I knew he wanted to trial there. What his agent did to get him there I don't know but people here are acting like he's betrayed them personally. Honestly to me, this is actually more evidence that the TFC FO is a mess. You'd think we would have a problem with that as opposed to a player who is taking care of business for himself.

Just a quick question...before people started freaking out and posting their rage, did anyone actually lookup to see if DeRo has contravened any rules in the CBA? Because I will be honest, I don't know myself.

I am sure his contract specificially excludes him from trialing and or training with any other club if only for the risk of injury. But of course contracts and terms& conditions have no bearing on Dero's actions. This is TFC's fault for him trialing with a club without their permission and approval. No big deal. :picard:

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Keep his contract, u might get some good transfer money out of it!

[Waggy]

:lol: I just woke up bro. Fuck me... :rolleyes:

Anyways, I am having a good laugh at reading all of this. People are freaking out because DeRo wants to trial somewhere. Somehow this is news. I will be honest and say I didn't know about him already being there, but I knew he wanted to trial there. What his agent did to get him there I don't know but people here are acting like he's betrayed them personally. Honestly to me, this is actually more evidence that the TFC FO is a mess. You'd think we would have a problem with that as opposed to a player who is taking care of business for himself.

Just a quick question...before people started freaking out and posting their rage, did anyone actually lookup to see if DeRo has contravened any rules in the CBA? Because I will be honest, I don't know myself.


Sleep is for the weak Roogsy! Holiday shmoliday. You actually know some people who know some people, so let me ask you: do you think maybe Deros realized it's time to move on?


Edit: And question for everyone; lets assume this trial goes well. What's a fair transfer price for someone like Dero? What's his international market value? In the new MLS cba, does TFC still only get 1/3 of the transfer fee or whatever percentage it was?

[Roogsy]

I am sure his contract specificially excludes him from trialing and or training with any other club if only for the risk of injury. But of course contracts and terms& conditions have no bearing on Dero's actions. This is TFC's fault for him trialing with a club without their permission and approval. No big deal. :picard:

Not at all. That's not what I am saying. For this to be a problem there would have to be one of two things. 1) DeRo's contract explicitly has to state that he cannot trial or train anywhere without TFC or MLS's permission and 2) the MLS Player's CBA has to explicitly state the same about each player and their club or league.

All I am asking is whether DeRo's contract (which none of us have seen so I am guessing nobody can speak to this) or the CBA (which we all have access to but I have not read in it's entirety) speaks to this issue and what the process is for a player to trial or train elsewhere? And what process DeRo's agent might have taken in order to do this either contractually allowed or quite possiblyi contractually disallowed. I am not claiming anything either way because I don't know.

I am not imploying, inferring or suggesting anything. I am simply trying to get facts lined up to make an informed opinion on this. Is that ok with you? :rolleyes:

[Beach_Red]

Interim or not, DeRo's agent knows how to get in touch with Earl Cochrane. It's pretty clear DeRo or his agent did not contact him.

He needs permission from the club. If TFC decided they would let him go the negotiation would take place between the MLS and Celtic. MLS can't just pluck players off teams and sell them or send them out on loan at will without talking to the club. You don't think this is really how it works do you?

I think the situation with TFC/MLSE/Soccer Solutions/MLS is a mess. Howvere things are supposed to work, they don't work that way at TFC. It's hard to watch this, I can't imagine what it's like to rely on these guys to run the company you make a living from.

Who is running TFC? do they give prompt answers to questions from agents or do they say, "I'll have to find out and get back to you." Could Cochrane sign a multi-million dollar DP contract today? Could Klinsmann? Does it have to be Anselmi? Would someone have to explain to him what a "loan" is?

I have no idea if DeRo or his agent even tried to follow proper procedure, but I can imagine how frustrating TFC is to deal with these days.

[BASE]

;1188808']Ex.1. The Beckham Rule- Giving a team a chance to sign a "DP" player that would not count against the cap. (L.A. Galaxy)

Ex.2. The 2nd DP Rule- Allowing teams to sign a second DP player. Galaxy wanted to hold onto the chosen one, Landon Donovan, by giving him a DP contract.(L.A. Galaxy)

Ex.3. TFC's International Slots- Massive advantage given to TFC thanks to MO because he couldn't do his job in Canada.(Toronto FC)

Ex.4. DeRosario to TFC for Julian James and a 3rd Round Pick? No explanation needed.(Toronto FC)

Ex.5. The 3rd DP Rule- So that NYRB could sign Thierry Henry, Marquez and Juan Pablo Angel as DP's.(NYRedBulls)

The idea of tampering is the issue.

# 1,2,& 5 - How is the league adding DP's tampering? These were all approved rule changes by the Board of Governors. Every team can benefit - though most have not on the field. Henry + Becks may help sell Jerseys but have thus far had limited impact in terms of winning.

# 3 Your wrong MLS realized Mo Jo couldn't do this job anywhere.:canada:

# 4 Was a classic salary dump. Success in Houston made it inevitable that Houston had to dump salaries in a salary capped league.

[Roogsy]

I'm tired of all this De Rosario drama. If he is NOT happy with MLSE, trade him or sell him to Europe if that is what he really wants.

Maybe we can take the money and build a proper squad. At the very least, we won't have the DeRo sideshow anymore.


Funny enough, I have no problems with this. I know for a fact he is tired of the drama as well. In my opinion, this is a symptom of the problems with the club but I guess we will decide for ourselves who we will blame.

[Waggy]

The idea of tampering is the issue.

# 1,2,& 5 - How is the league adding DP's tampering? These were all approved rule changes by the Board of Governors. Every team can benefit - though most have not on the field. Henry + Becks may help sell Jerseys but have thus far had limited impact in terms of winning.

# 3 Your wrong MLS realized Mo Jo couldn't do this job anywhere.:canada:

# 4 Was a classic salary dump. Success in Houston made it inevitable that Houston had to dump salaries in a salary capped league.

You didn't respond to my examples of McBride going to Chicago (basically they forced Toronto to trade him there), or the Sigi tampering between Seattle and Columbus.

[wzhxvy]

Not at all. That's not what I am saying. For this to be a problem there would have to be one of two things. 1) DeRo's contract explicitly has to state that he cannot trial or train anywhere without TFC or MLS's permission and 2) the MLS Player's CBA has to explicitly state the same about each player and their club or league.

All I am asking is whether DeRo's contract (which none of us have seen so I am guessing nobody can speak to this) or the CBA (which we all have access to but I have not read in it's entirety) speaks to this issue and what the process is for a player to trial or train elsewhere? And what process DeRo's agent might have taken in order to do this either contractually allowed or quite possiblyi contractually disallowed. I am not claiming anything either way because I don't know.

I am not imploying, inferring or suggesting anything. I am simply trying to get facts lined up to make an informed opinion on this. Is that ok with you? :rolleyes:

I am not the authority so whether its OK with me or not, is a matter of perspective. I am just finding it difficult to understand how you think this is OK or that his contract or CBA would not have addressed this. I think you know the answer. I also think you are amused by it but the reality is that this is extremely embarassing to Dero and TFC, and my guess, it will not end well.

[sweetlemon69]

He's replaceable

This.

[Razcle]

:lol: I just woke up bro. Fuck me... :rolleyes:

Anyways, I am having a good laugh at reading all of this. People are freaking out because DeRo wants to trial somewhere. Somehow this is news. I will be honest and say I didn't know about him already being there, but I knew he wanted to trial there. What his agent did to get him there I don't know but people here are acting like he's betrayed them personally. Honestly to me, this is actually more evidence that the TFC FO is a mess. You'd think we would have a problem with that as opposed to a player who is taking care of business for himself.

Just a quick question...before people started freaking out and posting their rage, did anyone actually lookup to see if DeRo has contravened any rules in the CBA? Because I will be honest, I don't know myself.

I couldn't agree more. I have no idea how this F'n league is put together, nor do I want to waste my life trying to figure it all out. You guys all need to understand what is really going on here before you start saying he betrayed the club.

What if he is going over there for 3 months to make an extra 200-300k and will be in prime shape when the start of the season rolls around? We have seen elite players do this and have a fantastic impact when they come back. (we have also seen Beckham go over and get injured).

I just think before you guys label him a traitor, let's see how it all plays out. I wouldn't doubt if someone went over Cocharne's head to get permission. Until proven otherwise, my beloved Toronto FC is still a minor league team.

[Suds]

I think the situation with TFC/MLSE/Soccer Solutions/MLS is a mess. Howvere things are supposed to work, they don't work that way at TFC. It's hard to watch this, I can't imagine what it's like to rely on these guys to run the company you make a living from.

Who is running TFC? do they give prompt answers to questions from agents or do they say, "I'll have to find out and get back to you." Could Cochrane sign a multi-million dollar DP contract today? Could Klinsmann? Does it have to be Anselmi? Would someone have to explain to him what a "loan" is?

I have no idea if DeRo or his agent even tried to follow proper procedure, but I can imagine how frustrating TFC is to deal with these days.


If someone is named to an interim position at a company it's pretty clear who you need to contact on decisions that are under that role's purview. Earl Cochrane is the interim GM. It's clear who MLS, DeRo, or his agent would call.

[Juanito]

Funny enough, I have no problems with this. I know for a fact he is tired of the drama as well. In my opinion, this is a symptom of the problems with the club but I guess we will decide for ourselves who we will blame.

I'm not really blaming anyone in particular, actually if anything, it's EVERYONE .... De Rosario, Mo, the club itself.

Just DO SOMETHING and end it one way or another. It's a big distraction and if it is dividing us supporters, can you imagine what it must be doing to the other players?

[Roogsy]

I am not the authority so whether its OK with me or not, is a matter of perspective. I am just finding it difficult to understand how you think this is OK or that his contract or CBA would not have addressed this. I think you know the answer. I also think you are amused by it but the reality is that this is extremely embarassing to Dero and TFC, and my guess, it will not end well.

I actually don't know anything about the methods the agent is using so I won't admit to "know" anything. As for the actions...I think we can all admit the relationship is damaged and either side is now in "bunker" mode. They're each just watching out for themselves. That's business.

[Pookie]

... another possibility is that they let Klinsmann know and kept The Coch out of the loop. That wouldn't be good news for Earl.

Seems pretty far fetched though.

[Waggy]

... another possibility is that they let Klinsmann know and kept The Coch out of the loop. That wouldn't be good news for Earl.

Seems pretty far fetched though.

So Klinsmann knew but didn't tell anyone at MLSE that their star player was going on trial? That doesn't sound too likely.


Things like this are why every year I feel like I care about sports 10% less. The more you know about athletes, owners, agents and the whole behind the scenes stuff, the less you want to stomach all these assholes.

[Pookie]

I'm not really blaming anyone in particular, actually if anything, it's EVERYONE .... De Rosario, Mo, the club itself.

Just DO SOMETHING and end it one way or another. It's a big distraction and if it is dividing us supporters, can you imagine what it must be doing to the other players?

Well, talk to some players off the record. They might be wishing him well overseas as well.

[Pookie]

So Klinsmann knew but didn't tell anyone at MLSE that their star player was going on trial? That doesn't sound too likely.

Agreed. Just running down the list of possibilities:

1. Earl purposely lied
2. DeRo and/or agent are D-bags
3. JK knew but didn't tell Earl

I'll take what's behind door #2

[Beach_Red]

If someone is named to an interim position at a company it's pretty clear who you need to contact on decisions that are under that role's purview. Earl Cochrane is the interim GM. It's clear who MLS, DeRo, or his agent would call.

Yes, of course, but months ago it was Anselmi who stated publicly that if DeRo wanted to renegotiate he should call him. Then he named an interim GM and then he hired a consultant.

We're not seeing the actions of a well-run company here doing what's "pretty clear" should be done. TFC have let this situation - and probably many others, let's see what happens next week when Nana and Cann's contracts expire - go on far too long.

We're always looking for individuals to blame with tnis team, but fucking up something this badly takes a whole organization ;).

[Pookie]

So Klinsmann knew but didn't tell anyone at MLSE that their star player was going on trial? That doesn't sound too likely.


Things like this are why every year I feel like I care about sports 10% less. The more you know about athletes, owners, agents and the whole behind the scenes stuff, the less you want to stomach all these assholes.

As an aside, you should pick up United We Fall, a book based on the history of Leeds United. Very interesting look at the world of Managers, Chairmen, Agents, Players and the Press.

It won't do anything for your outlook but it was written by a Supporter who became Chairman (Peter Ridsdale).

[Waggy]

Agreed. Just running down the list of possibilities:

1. Earl purposely lied
2. DeRo and/or agent are D-bags
3. JK knew but didn't tell Earl

I'll take what's behind door #2

Gotcha. Maybe though we shouldn't be asking Earl? Maybe Peddie or Tannenbaum would have been the MLSE rep notified of such a move? I don't see it as likely, but I'd say that's more plausible than Klinsmann just not saying anything to anyone.


And thanks for the suggestion, I'll pick it up over the weekend. Love the sports business books- I care too much about sports anyways haha

[CretanBull]

Agreed. Just running down the list of possibilities:

1. Earl purposely lied
2. DeRo and/or agent are D-bags
3. JK knew but didn't tell Earl

I'll take what's behind door #2

4. DeRo isn't happy working for a club that lied to him and refuses to acknowledge their dishonesty and is exploring his options.

[Juanito]

Well, talk to some players off the record. They might be wishing him well overseas as well.

They could be. All I'm saying is that this whole situation is a distraction and when things go bad (aka. losing streak), it becomes bigger than it should be.

I have no ill-will for the guy, but if he truly is not happy here and wants to make more money, than maybe the best answer is to sell him and get something for him.

[Suds]

Yes, of course, but months ago it was Anselmi who stated publicly that if DeRo wanted to renegotiate he should call him. Then he named an interim GM and then he hired a consultant.

We're not seeing the actions of a well-run company here doing what's "pretty clear" should be done. TFC have let this situation - and probably many others, let's see what happens next week when Nana and Cann's contracts expire - go on far too long.

We're always looking for individuals to blame with tnis team, but fucking up something this badly takes a whole organization ;).

Agree with you there ... TFC's history shows they have been pretty poor at that day-to-day operation of the club.

I just feel it's very poor judgment by DeRo & his agent not to contact the GM, interim or not, of the club he is under contract to and inform him or ask for permission to trial with another club.

I see this as a move by DeRo to create leverage to renegotiate his contract. My personal view is this may backfire on him.

[Beach_Red]

Gotcha. Maybe though we shouldn't be asking Earl? Maybe Peddie or Tannenbaum would have been the MLSE rep notified of such a move? I don't see it as likely, but I'd say that's more plausible than Klinsmann just not saying anything to anyone.


And thanks for the suggestion, I'll pick it up over the weekend. Love the sports business books- I care too much about sports anyways haha

Have you read Dave Zirin's, "Bad Sports; How Owners Are Ruining Sports?"

[Pookie]

Gotcha. Maybe though we shouldn't be asking Earl? Maybe Peddie or Tannenbaum would have been the MLSE rep notified of such a move? I don't see it as likely, but I'd say that's more plausible than Klinsmann just not saying anything to anyone.


Dear God (or random chance) I sure hope that Anselmi wasn't informed and kept this from Earl.

Plausible.

Not very likely though. He's just as concerned about bad press as he is money and I can't see the inner circle being kept in the dark on a big development like this.

[ensco]

... another possibility is that they let Klinsmann know and kept The Coch out of the loop. That wouldn't be good news for Earl.

Seems pretty far fetched though.

I like this theory. It's the only reasonable explanation for why Celtic would trial a player under contract.

[Beach_Red]

Agree with you there ... TFC's history shows they have been pretty poor at that day-to-day operation of the club.

I just feel it's very poor judgment by DeRo & his agent not to contact the GM, interim or not, of the club he is under contract to and inform him or ask for permission to trial with another club.

I see this as a move by DeRo to create leverage to renegotiate his contract. My personal view is this may backfire on him.

Oh it's a bad move, another bad move in a series of bad moves. I really don't know how DeRo was with San Jose and Houston, if this is out of character or not. To be honest, I had expected his relationship with the team to change and get better with the change in management but it seems to be worse, and that could be a bad sign going forward as the team tries to sign more players and someday a coach and GM (or maybe not, who knows).

[ensco]

The elephant in the room is the impending sale of MLSE. The whole organization is paralyzed by it, imho.

[ArmenJBX]

He's not going to get ANYTHING from Celtic. It's just too dangerous for them, too much hassle to work out an agreement AND not get into trouble from contractual legalities.

Thus, I hope and pray he is forced to return to Toronto FC, and is booed endlessly.

If someone was paying me 400k so I can kick a ball around for an hour and a half, I'd STFU and kick the ball.

And, lastly, I think we all knew who the cancer in the locker room really was...But I think that no one here really wanted to admit our best player may also have been our worst.

[Roogsy]

I have run into some very interesting info that I think will be released today. Needless to say people who are accusing Dwayne of being dishonest and underhanded are going to be proven wrong...again.

[Super Cereal]

I say void it and boo him out of BMO Field.
A large banner, perhaps with DeRos face on it, money signs on his eyes, and "We Dont Need You" written on it?
In any case, I pray his trial fails AND we void his contract. This has made me lose any amount of respect I had for him. He's the captain ffs.

Agreed.

Regardless of what happens at Celtic, if DeRo is the captain of this team come opening day, I don't think I can be a Toronto FC fan any longer. It's bad enough that the management and ownership take a dump on the fans, but the captain of the team? Fuck DeRo.

As a Sens fan, I don't need another Yashin. That's all DeRo seems to be becoming.

[Pookie]

4. DeRo isn't happy working for a club that lied to him and refuses to acknowledge their dishonesty and is exploring his options.

I agree with that. I think he was promised something, had the deal from Houston announced and then was offered something different. He felt forced to sign and started his career here with a big elephant in the room.

That said, he still signed the deal. The time for negotiation was 2 years ago before pen went to paper.

[TFC Bhoy]

I have run into some very interesting info that I think will be released today. Needless to say people who are accusing Dwayne of being dishonest and underhanded are going to be proven wrong...again.
i wana know!!!!!!!!!!! :D care to share?? please?? with a cherry on top? lol

[Parkdale]

I have run into some very interesting info that I think will be released today. Needless to say people who are accusing Dwayne of being dishonest and underhanded are going to be proven wrong...again.



ohhhh.... the red font has spoken.



:D

[ArmenJBX]

Oh yeah, of course we'll need another captain now too.
I nominate Cann.

[ArmenJBX]

I wonder what it's like to be a Vancouver Whitecaps fan.
Not that I'll switch, but, I mean...
Now's the time to do it without being called out on it :/

Just something for some of us to think about...

[BASE]

You didn't respond to my examples of McBride going to Chicago (basically they forced Toronto to trade him there), or the Sigi tampering between Seattle and Columbus.

Was McBride on Toronto's radar at $1million per year - probably not. Was Toronto looking to get as much back for the top spot in the pecking order -of course. Could Mo have brought in someone better than Barrett - probably not with his luck/contacts. McBride was only coming back to play in Chicago - Toronto played out the scenario I don't recall the league ever stepping in.

Toronto was properly compensated with a young player. Its not the player TFC wanted - remember Mo Jo was after Justin Mapp, but it all went down to negotiation and TFC dragged it out. While dratically overpaid and under productive Barrett is still on the TFC roster and the current management thought enough of his upside to up his salary for 2011.

What exactly did Sigi do? Or what did the league allow him to do?

My issue with your original statement is that you said the league tampers - I'm saying they have been pretty fair since the beginning - consideirng the operating structure.

[Beach_Red]

The elephant in the room is the impending sale of MLSE. The whole organization is paralyzed by it, imho.

Yes, this is it. The whole organization is paralyzed. There's even a story today that the Leafs aren't going to make any changes for the rest of the season.

Let's hope this sale happens soon.

[Roogsy]

Oh, look at that, Roogsy knows something we all don't! This is such a new thing that we've never experienced before! /sarcasm

Yeah, we get it, you're friends with the guy. Don't wave a carrot in front of our face, we're not babies. If you know something, tell us, if not, no need to gloat.


Listen little boy...I ran into this info...I am confirming it and also trying to get approval to release the information. If you're really a "journalism" student, you will know not to burn your sources.

[ArmenJBX]

sorry.

[Chevy]

Oh, look at that, Roogsy knows something we all don't! This is such a new thing that we've never experienced before! /sarcasm

Yeah, we get it, you're friends with the guy. Don't wave a carrot in front of our face, we're not babies. If you know something, tell us, if not, no need to gloat.

+1. Give me a friggin break.

[Waggy]

Dear God (or random chance) I sure hope that Anselmi wasn't informed and kept this from Earl.

Plausible.

Not very likely though. He's just as concerned about bad press as he is money and I can't see the inner circle being kept in the dark on a big development like this.

Ya same. I'm grasping at straws here. After innitial anger, I'm trying to find ANY sort of logical explanation of how this could have happened where Dero didn't totally deceive the club. I'm struggling.


And Beach, no I haven't heard of Bad Sports- I'll put it on the list too. Thanks

[Juanito]

I have run into some very interesting info that I think will be released today. Needless to say people who are accusing Dwayne of being dishonest and underhanded are going to be proven wrong...again.


i wana know!!!!!!!!!!! :D care to share?? please?? with a cherry on top? lol


ohhhh.... the red font has spoken.



:D

Yes Roogsy. How can you do that? You can't dangle the carrot like that and then say, "Later kiddies." I WANT MY FUCKING CARROT BE-OTCH! ;)

Now, you've peaked my interest, you bastard ...

[Super Cereal]

I have run into some very interesting info that I think will be released today. Needless to say people who are accusing Dwayne of being dishonest and underhanded are going to be proven wrong...again.

Are you Big Bruva?

I HAVE SOME SUPER TOP SECRET INFORMATION THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS. ITS TOTALLY AWESOME AND MAKES ME RIGHT. BUT I CANT SAY IT.

[ArmenJBX]

No, he's right, I shouldn't have said that.
If he's confirming it, then we just gotta wait.

Again, apologies.

[Beach_Red]

What exactly did Sigi do? Or what did the league allow him to do?

My issue with your original statement is that you said the league tampers - I'm saying they have been pretty fair since the beginning - consideirng the operating structure.

Seattle had to give Columbus allocation money. The league went very easy on them.

[Super Cereal]

Listen little boy...I ran into this info...I am confirming it and also trying to get approval to release the information. If you're really a "journalism" student, you will know not to burn your sources.

Then don't bother bringing it up unless you have the balls to say the info.


No, he's right, I shouldn't have said that.
If he's confirming it, then we just gotta wait.

Again, apologies.

I disagree. If you have something to share, share it. Don't play the stupid guessing game while you run around bugging people.

[Juanito]

Then don't bother bringing it up unless you have the balls to say the info.

Relax guys ....

[Suds]

Are you Big Bruva?

I HAVE SOME SUPER TOP SECRET INFORMATION THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS. ITS TOTALLY AWESOME AND MAKES ME RIGHT. BUT I CANT SAY IT.


OK ... maybe's Roogsy's initial post on this could have been written better. But he has follow-up by stating he wants to confirm the information is valid or from a valid source before posting it here.

Let's keep our emotions in check.

[Waggy]

+1. Give me a friggin break.

Sources are sources because they can't be named. Roogsy definitely has a connection to Dero- I think we can all agree with that. I don't think anyone would be surprised that he had information. If the information is going to be released today then don't jump down Roogsys throat, you'll find out soon enough. He is just trying to temper the vitriol on the board. Whether or not we'll agree with his assessment/side of the story is another matter all together.

[Super Cereal]

Relax guys ....

I'm perfectly calm, just something funny I've noticed on this forum.

[Chevy]

Then don't bother bringing it up unless you have the balls to say the info.



I disagree. If you have something to share, share it. Don't play the stupid guessing game while you run around bugging people.

+1. Go the hell away and come back when you actually "have" something. Just like all the clubs lined up to pay MeRo the big dollars over the last ten years. STILL waiting for that list to be released.

[Menelaos]

Then don't bother bringing it up unless you have the balls to say the info.



I disagree. If you have something to share, share it. Don't play the stupid guessing game while you run around bugging people.

Actually, I am glad he's bringing it up and confirming it.
Thus far the info all seems one sided, so I do want to know what happened from Dero's perspective.

Thx for getting if Roogsy

[CretanBull]

I agree with that. I think he was promised something, had the deal from Houston announced and then was offered something different. He felt forced to sign and started his career here with a big elephant in the room.

That said, he still signed the deal. The time for negotiation was 2 years ago before pen went to paper.

I don't want to rehash it all, but to suggest that the time for negotiation was 2 years ago ignores the reality of the circumstances from 2 years ago - DeRo was essentially left with no option but to sign with Toronto, on the terms that they were offering. Yes, of course he still signed it but it was signed with a understanding..DeRo lived up to his end of the bargain, TFC didn't.

Even if you disagree with DeRo, think that he's a spoiled athlete who isn't worth what he's asking for, as fans we should be on his side because this situation drastically effects our ability to attract future talent. I can assure you that regardless of what some people think, fellow player don't think that DeRo is spoiled or unworthy and there's a preception that our front office hasn't treated him fairly.

How many times have people here wondered why a player went to another team when Toronto surely had to be seen as a better option? People here were disappointed when Nathan Sturgis seemed less than thrilled to come here. Whether we like it or not, whether we agree or not, the common preception among players is that despite the great environment, the appeal of the city etc. Toronto isn't a good place to play. Screwing over the best player in franchise history doesn't help change that preception.

[Waggy]

What exactly did Sigi do? Or what did the league allow him to do?

My issue with your original statement is that you said the league tampers - I'm saying they have been pretty fair since the beginning - consideirng the operating structure.

The short story- Seattle hired Sigi as coach while he was still coaching another team without telling that team. They were forced to compensate as was mentioned, but clearly you can see the similarities. The difference of course was that the Sigi incident was entirely within the MLS, while this Dero mess involves another league.

[Roogsy]

Then don't bother bringing it up unless you have the balls to say the info.


I HAVE the info...I know what it is, I am trying to make sure that YOU guys (as undeserving as you are) get the whole story before you work yourselves up into a ridiculous frenzy. In the meantime, what I AM able to give you, I have. Which is to say that you definitely don't know the whole story...that there is DeRo's side to the story and you will be surprised. I know I was. Unless you don't want the info, in which case you can just wait for the news media and bloggers to release it to you and you can just ignore Roogsy. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to read my posts.

[Juanito]

Guys ... I am NOT a moderator, but I also don't want the conversation to turn into yet another DeRo-bashing free-for-all.

Let's keep it respectful.

[CretanBull]

I'm perfectly calm, just something funny I've noticed on this forum.

I don't think that you're aware of the reputation of the member that you're calling out. I get it, people talk shit all the time. Roogsy is not one of those people.

[ArmenJBX]

Yeah, we're all on the same team here.

Okay, deep breath.

Now we wait.

[Chevy]

Pour yourself another cup roogsy, it's gonna be a long day.....

http://www.bigtomatocompany.com/pictures/extra/mug-spindoctor.jpg

[Roogsy]

Pour yourself another cup roogsy, it's gonna be a long day.....

http://www.bigtomatocompany.com/pictures/extra/mug-spindoctor.jpg

Not at all. The info I have been given is 1) believable considering what those of us who have dealt with TFC know of the FO and 2) is not far-fetched or a convoluted story. I won't be spinning, explaining, expanding or anything else. Once you guys know, make up your own minds. You can call my defense of DeRo anything you want, but the difference between you and me is that I use facts and you don't.

[Super Cereal]

Guys ... I am NOT a moderator

We know it, didn't think you knew it.


I don't think that you're aware of the reputation of the member that you're calling out. I get it, people talk shit all the time. Roogsy is not one of those people.

This post highlights what's wrong with this forum. The old boy's club. I don't care about reputation, I have nothing against Roogsy. I'd be calling out my own mother if she was in his shoes.

[Carts]

DeRosario made Earl Cochrane look like an idiot when Cochrane said Dero would not be trialing with any Club and today he shows up trialing with Celtic. I don't think the fans will want Dero back. Cochrane has to either void his contract or trade him for a 4th round draft choice. At this point, I don't want to see Dero at TFC.

I do...

He's our best player...

End...

Carts...

[Waggy]

I don't think that you're aware of the reputation of the member that you're calling out. I get it, people talk shit all the time. Roogsy is not one of those people.

This. I disagree with Roogsy on Dero but he's certainly earned his credibility. It's 12pm, this story broke at what, 9am? The guy woke up an hour ago or something, calm the fuck down. We'll all have the same insight Roogsy has soon enough. And then we can pick it/him apart lol

[Roogsy]

This. I disagree with Roogsy on Dero but he's certainly earned his credibility. It's 12pm, this story broke at what, 9am? The guy woke up an hour ago or something, calm the fuck down. We'll all have the same insight Roogsy has soon enough. And then we can pick it/him apart lol


:lol:


I got my gloves on!

[Chevy]

Not at all. The info I have been given is 1) believable considering what those of us who have dealt with TFC know of the FO and 2) is not far-fetched or a convoluted story. I won't be spinning, explaining, expanding or anything else. Once you guys know, make up your own minds. You can call my defense of DeRo anything you want, but the difference between you and me is that I use facts and you don't.

So you have a "believable story that isn't far fetched"? Sounds like spin to me. :picard:

[Roogsy]

We know it, didn't think you knew it.



This post highlights what's wrong with this forum. The old boy's club. I don't care about reputation, I have nothing against Roogsy. I'd be calling out my own mother if she was in his shoes.


What is wrong with the forum is that it's an old boys club? That there are people in the know, that there are people with inside info, that there are people who associate with players is not something new nor is it something that will change if this board disappears. In fact, the good thing about this board is that you, as a fan, have access to info, discussion and opportunities that the outside fan does not. RPB boards break more stories and get more clarification than the media itself, you'd think you'd be thankful for that. All I am saying is wait for the whole story to come out before you are ready to hang DeRo and yet somehow I am villified for that too? It's not a popular thing to be a DeRo fan these days even IF you have plenty of data and evidence backing you up... :rolleyes:

[Waggy]

:lol:


I got my gloves on!

Me thinks you're gonna need them. I don't think Shakes woken up yet either lol

[Parkdale]

....but the difference between you and me is that I use facts and you don't.


facts that aren't on the table yet.

just sayin'

[Roogsy]

facts that aren't on the table yet.

just sayin'


I was more referring to previous DeRo discussions. But in this case, the facts will hopefully come out today. I am aware of the fact that several media sources have the story in hand and are probably preparing it as we speak.

[CretanBull]

This post highlights what's wrong with this forum. The old boy's club. I don't care about reputation, I have nothing against Roogsy. I'd be calling out my own mother if she was in his shoes.

It's not an "old boy's club", its about recognizing that Roogsy has a history of credible posts.

Believe me, it pains me to say it :D but Roogsy has been right far more than he's been wrong.

[Juanito]

We know it, didn't think you knew it.


HA HA HA HA! :D

[Super Cereal]

It's not an "old boy's club", its about recognizing that Roogsy has a history of credible posts.

Believe me, it pains me to say it :D but Roogsy has been right far more than he's been wrong.

I don't care, I'm not doubting his credibility as much as I am criticizing the manner in which he is using it. Roogsy is a big boy, he's doing a fine job defending himself.


HA HA HA HA! :D

All in good fun, don't take anything to heart anyone.

[Roogsy]

I just want to set the parameters of what people think is an appropriate way for DeRo to trial at Celtic. I'd like to see some posts, especially from his most fervent haters (Chevy I am looking at you) with regards to what they believe was needed on his part to make this trial something that isn't sleazy, underhanded or dishonest or whatever else he is being accused of. Please provide those conditions here.

[Waggy]

I don't care, I'm not doubting his credibility as much as I am criticizing the manner in which he is using it. Roogsy is a big boy, he's doing a fine job defending himself.



All in good fun, don't take anything to heart anyone.

If someone earns credibility and respect, they dont have to defend themselves. Thats how it goes. (And thats why only a few people are defending Dero around here. EYO!)

[BS1327]

DeRo's a class act to the fans, and club, so I can see the FO messing up on this one.

I await Roogsy's news!

[Roogsy]

Me thinks you're gonna need them. I don't think Shakes woken up yet either lol


Gawd I hope he sleeps all day. :lol:

[TFCRegina]

On the plus side, if De Ro does make the move to Celtic, it frees up 400k in cap space, puts another Canadian in Europe, opens a spot up for another Canuck here at home and gets us some extra cash.

On the downside, we'll be in a real intense rebuilding mode for the next season.

[ensco]

Here's a prediction: I'm pretty that sure the fuller story will be illuminating with respect to the "regard" that the football community have for Cochrane.

[CoachGT]

Roogsy is in a position where he does know stuff because of personal connections but really can't say. he's been good enough to say that he expects things to come out throughout the day today. I'm grateful to him for that, but I still don't read too much into the reported information so far anyway - it usually only has part of one side of the story.

I'd be more disappointed in Roogsy if he opened up and told all - that would cost him credibility with his sources and eliminate anything in the future.

[Juanito]

All in good fun, don't take anything to heart anyone.

For sure. YES GUY!!

[Mikey]

I hope Dero can get a foot in the door with a successful club, TFC is no place to end a decent football career.

[CoachGT]

On the downside, we'll be in a real intense rebuilding mode for the next season.

More than we are already? De Ro singlehandedly gave us points in the early part of the season last year, masking the quality of play that we would see later in the year from the rest of the squad. A true rebuilding effort may require DeRo to leave because of his strength on the field.

[Chevy]

I just want to set the parameters of what people think is an appropriate way for DeRo to trial at Celtic. I'd like to see some posts, especially from his most fervent haters (Chevy I am looking at you) with regards to what they believe was needed on his part to make this trial something that isn't sleazy, underhanded or dishonest or whatever else he is being accused of. Please provide those conditions here.

No. I will wait until your "facts" come out and respond appropriately.

[Roogsy]

No. I will wait until your "facts" come out and respond appropriately.


Really? So you can mold your "conditions" after you learn of what has transpired? Hardly honest.

Haven't you already passed judgement on DeRo's trial based on some sort of preset requirement what needed to happen? What are those requirements? Care to enlighten us why exactly DeRo is to blame here for this debacle?



Ok then, since Chevy (for some reason) refuses to tell us what would be required for a player to have a trial somewhere, can someone else tell me what would be the conditions where we would accept DeRo or anyone else on TFC trialing at another club?

[ilikemusic]

First, none of us has all the facts, so people shouldnt make any proclamations either way.

Second, I am much more inclined to give DeRo the benefit of the doubt. This organization is a shit show. If he did lie/mislead/withhold information from TFC, thats not very good, but I am more inclined to believe it is organizational incompetence on the part of TFC management that led to this situation.

DeRo is wasting his talents, and his career playing for such an incompetent organization. I dont doubt he desperately want to play, contribute, and succeed in Toronto, but I think he has become legitimately frustrated with a front office that never seems to do anything.

DeRo wants to play somewhere else for the same reason I gave up my season tickets. Its four years on and this organization doesnt appear to be making any progress. If DeRo wants off the sinking ship because he only has a couple years left, then more power to him. Its unfortunate that TFC is such a shit show, but it isnt DeRo's fault.

[Super Cereal]

I just want to set the parameters of what people think is an appropriate way for DeRo to trial at Celtic. I'd like to see some posts, especially from his most fervent haters (Chevy I am looking at you) with regards to what they believe was needed on his part to make this trial something that isn't sleazy, underhanded or dishonest or whatever else he is being accused of. Please provide those conditions here.

I'm not a DeRo hater. Well I wasn't until some of the recent news, now I've become quite disappointed in him I won't lie. Since the celebration my respect for him has deteriorated.

I'll answer your question though. For me, asking the team and organization permission to trial with Celtic, giving them the full knowledge of any details about the trial, and getting the permission from them.

[Chevy]

Really? So you can mold your "conditions" after you learn of what has transpired? Hardly honest.

Haven't you already passed judgement on DeRo's trial based on some sort of preset requirement what needed to happen? What are those requirements? Care to enlighten us why exactly DeRo is to blame here for this debacle?



Ok then, since Chevy (for some reason) refuses to tell us what would be required for a player to have a trial somewhere, can someone else tell me what would be the conditions where we would accept DeRo or anyone else on TFC trialing at another club?

You're doing the same thing, idiot. I'm sure you have your "facts" all lined up and will release them after your precious little paramaters are set.

I have not passed judgement on the man. I quite like him as a footballer but simply don't see his value at anything more than $400k, and haven't moved from that position. Probably won't anytime soon, regardless of the spin that will come out today. That has ALWAYS been my position. I do however, have a distaste for you.

As a person, I don't really care for the guy and that's my choice. It doesn't factor into my valuation of him as a player, exclusive of the portion of valuation that can be attributed to character.

[wzhxvy]

The conditions are simple Roogsy, Dero asked for permission to trial (himself, his agent, or Celtic) and was granted approval by TFC/MLS.

What am I missing here ????

[Roogsy]

I'm not a DeRo hater. Well I wasn't until some of the recent news, now I've become quite disappointed in him I won't lie. Since the celebration my respect for him has deteriorated.

I'll answer your question though. For me, asking the team and organization permission to trial with Celtic, giving them the full knowledge of any details about the trial, and getting the permission from them.


Ok. So let's list these and hopefully more will be added if others participate.

1) Asking the team for permission to trial with Celtic
2) Giving them the full knowledge of any details about the trial
3) Getting approval/permission on the request

Sounds reasonable so far. Anything else?

[wzhxvy]

Ok. So let's list these and hopefully more will be added if others participate.

1) Asking the team for permission to trial with Celtic
2) Giving them the full knowledge of any details about the trial
3) Getting approval/permission on the request

Sounds reasonable so far. Anything else?

Thats good enough for me

[TFCRegina]

The conditions are simple Roogsy, Dero asked for permission to trial (himself, his agent, or Celtic) and was granted approval by TFC/MLS.

What am I missing here ????

I actually don't agree that that is a fair sign of honest actions.

1. De Rosario asked for permission to go to Scotland for the trial.
2. De Rosario received a NEGATIVE response.

Part 2 is key, if they didn't respond negatively, then he's done nothing wrong. If they didn't respond at all, he's done nothing wrong either. If they didn't approve but didn't disapprove, that's still not a negative response, and De Ro has acted honestly.

[Roogsy]

You're doing the same thing, idiot. I'm sure you have your "facts" all lined up and will release them after your precious little paramaters are set.

You guys are the ones flipping out. It would seem you would flip out only if you believe there was some type of violation so what would that be? Yes I know what happened. You don't. So I am trying to get you to commit to being honest and telling my WHY you blame DeRo so we can compare the facts together once they're released to see whether you have once again unfairly cast DeRo as the villain. The very least you can do is provide us with the reasons why you are blaming him now? Because you are either going to be dead right, or you are going to be dead wrong. One of us is going to be eating crow and you being the ringleader of the DeRo haters, you will have to respond for your side and I will gladly respond for mine.


And for the record, that is the SECOND time you have called me a name. The first time, I ignored it and simply edited out your insult. This is the second instance of you attacking me personally. I will point out that on this board this is not allowed and you can be infracted for that.

I might be arrogant, but I have never disrespected you in that manner.

[Roogsy]

Ok. So let's list these and hopefully more will be added if others participate.

1) Asking the team for permission to trial with Celtic
2) Giving them the full knowledge of any details about the trial
3) Getting approval/permission on the request

Sounds reasonable so far. Anything else?


Ok...so we can add point 3.b for those who are a little more lenient for DeRo. It could be that the club did not respond to the request and did not provide an approval or a disapproval and he went anyways. I can't imagine most supporters would be ok with this however, but some might be.

[Razcle]

Agreed.

As a Sens fan, I don't need another Yashin. That's all DeRo seems to be becoming.


DeRo is a Yashin??? Your fuckin kidding me???? You people are the reason I spend less time on this board with horse shit comparisons like this.

Everyone has their own opinion and thats fine. But DeRo and Yashin have almost nothing in common. Hometown boy turns his back on his country in 09 Gold cup for the benefit of TFC, Plays his heart out for his hometown club and wins league MVP awards, and for all you know has been toyed around with his salary since he got here.

I don't know any different and I am certain you don't either, so please spare me your crap comparisons.

[Wull]

You guys are the ones flipping out. It would seem you would flip out only if you believe there was some type of violation so what would that be? Yes I know what happened. You don't. So I am trying to get you to commit to being honest and telling my WHY you blame DeRo so we can compare the facts together once they're released to see whether you have once again unfairly cast DeRo as the villain. The very least you can do is provide us with the reasons why you are blaming him now?

A statement was released by the acting GM yesterday, the opposite happens today. Regardless of what eventually comes out, his position here is now untenable

[wzhxvy]

I actually don't agree that that is a fair sign of honest actions.

1. De Rosario asked for permission to go to Scotland for the trial.
2. De Rosario received a NEGATIVE response.

Part 2 is key, if they didn't respond negatively, then he's done nothing wrong. If they didn't respond at all, he's done nothing wrong either. If they didn't approve but didn't disapprove, that's still not a negative response, and De Ro has acted honestly.

No response is OK by you ??? I have a fundamental disagreement with this. He is under contract, he needs approval to go ahead. If your logic applied, then the world of business and contracts would cease to exist as we know it today.

[zeelaw]

De-Ro can go, and besides it is better for CMNT if he does...

[ensco]

Ok. So let's list these and hopefully more will be added if others participate.

1) Asking the team for permission to trial with Celtic
2) Giving them the full knowledge of any details about the trial
3) Getting approval/permission on the request

Sounds reasonable so far. Anything else?

Your intent is reasonable, but I don't think this works. The context always matters just as much as the scorecard.

Quote by a US Supreme Court Justice during a case trying to define what pornography is: "I can't make you a list of what the attributes of pornography are, but I know it when I see it."

[TFCRegina]

DeRo is a Yashin??? Your fuckin kidding me???? You people are the reason I spend less time on this board with horse shit comparisons like this.

Everyone has their own opinion and thats fine. But DeRo and Yashin have almost nothing in common. Hometown boy turns his back on his country in 09 Gold cup for the benefit of TFC, Plays his heart out for his hometown club and wins league MVP awards, and for all you know has been toyed around with his salary since he got here.

I don't know any different and I am certain you don't either, so please spare me your crap comparisons.

Plus One.

[Menelaos]

DeRo is a Yashin??? Your fuckin kidding me???? You people are the reason I spend less time on this board with horse shit comparisons like this.

Everyone has their own opinion and thats fine. But DeRo and Yashin have almost nothing in common. Hometown boy turns his back on his country in 09 Gold cup for the benefit of TFC, Plays his heart out for his hometown club and wins league MVP awards, and for all you know has been toyed around with his salary since he got here.

I don't know any different and I am certain you don't either, so please spare me your crap comparisons.

Make that +1 more

[Suds]

No response is OK by you ??? I have a fundamental disagreement with this. He is under contract, he needs approval to go ahead. If your logic applied, then the world of business and contracts would cease to exist as we know it today.

yeah, I'm in agreement on that point

A non response from TFC is not permission for DeRo to go on trial. IMO

[TFCRegina]

No response is OK by you ??? I have a fundamental disagreement with this. He is under contract, he needs approval to go ahead. If your logic applied, then the world of business and contracts would cease to exist as we know it today.

Actually it wouldn't, because the business world has a lot more flexibility in contracts than the almost Slave Labour laws of sports which allow clubs to underpay players and control their labour/social mobility, but I digress...

[wzhxvy]

Ok...so we can add point 3.b for those who are a little more lenient for DeRo. It could be that the club did not respond to the request and did not provide an approval or a disapproval and he went anyways. I can't imagine most supporters would be ok with this however, but some might be.

CMON !!!! Are you serious ? How is this OK ? I could site 100 examples of how that makes zero business, ethical or legal sense. Its not like he asked 6 months ago and the MLS went under, and he could rationalize an argument. No answer means NO.

Unless of course Dero is now thinking he is Bell or Rogers and can change the terms of his agreement by giving notice. Of course that logic would apply if he had that ability to do so in his contract, which I bet he doesnt. Cmon people. Cmon.

[Beach_Red]

yeah, I'm in agreement on that point

A non response from TFC is not permission for DeRo top go on loan. IMO

A non-response is a refusal to allow him to go. So, in that case, yes, he should not have gone, but in that case the reason for the no response is very, very important. Were they playing some kind of negotiating game or did they just not get their act together?

And, a non-response is very disrespectful to Celtic, if anyone cares about that.

[Roogsy]

Your intent is reasonable, but I don't think this works. The context always matters just as much as the scorecard.

Quote by a US Supreme Court Justice during a case trying to define what pornography is: "I can't make you a list of what the attributes of pornography are, but I know it when I see it."



In the end, it will still be subjective I agree. But you have to have at least a general idea of what is and is not acceptable do you not? We'd think that the Supreme Court here was dealing more with the blurry lines of art and media. Where does Michaelangelo's David become art but Jenna Jameson is pornography?

Here we are not dealing with blurry lines. We are talking about acceptable behaviour and people are acting like some type of betrayal occurred on DeRo's part. For there to be betrayal there has to be an understanding of acceptable behaviour. I am trying to peg people down even to a general level of what an acceptable behaviour on his part here would actually be so we can judge whether people's reactions were justified.

[Roogsy]

CMON !!!! Are you serious ? How is this OK ? I could site 100 examples of how that makes zero business, ethical or legal sense. Its not like he asked 6 months ago and the MLS went under, and he could rationalize an argument. No answer means NO.

Unless of course Dero is now thinking he is Bell or Rogers and can change the terms of his agreement by giving notice. Of course that logic would apply if he had that ability to do so in his contract, which I bet he doesnt. Cmon people. Cmon.



Um did you read the post? I didn't say it was ok. In fact my statement was "I can't imagine supporters would be ok with this". Seriously bro. Someone suggested it so I added it to the list as point 3.b.

[wzhxvy]

Actually it wouldn't, because the business world has a lot more flexibility in contracts than the almost Slave Labour laws of sports which allow clubs to underpay players and control their labour/social mobility, but I digress...

What are you talking about ? Seriously ? I swear some people on this board talk and have no idea what a contract is. Now MLS contracts are slave labour ? Why didnt he contest his contract in court then ? Sometimes I wonder why i even debate with some of you.

[Roogsy]

yeah, I'm in agreement on that point

A non response from TFC is not permission for DeRo to go on trial. IMO



Ok so we add point 3.c that explicit approval would be necessary.

I am just creating a list here. It is not complete or all encompassing. It does not make it the ultimate list on how to go about getting trial approvals.

[wzhxvy]

Um did you read the post? I didn't say it was ok. In fact my statement was "I can't imagine supporters would be ok with this". Seriously bro. Someone suggested it so I added it to the list as point 3.b.

Ok so you are not hinting that is the case then ? You are not saying that the facts you have may relate to him "asking for permission" but not receiving it?

[Roogsy]

Ok so you are not hinting that is the case then ? You are not saying that the facts you have may relate to him "asking for permission" but not receiving it?


Nope not at all. Just adding it to the list for discussion later.

[ensco]

Here we are not dealing with blurry lines.

Disagree. I bet when the whole story comes out that blurry lines is exactly what we will be dealing with.

The whole TFC org chart, Anselmi, Cochrane, Klinsmann, it's all blurry lines right now. So is the question of what if anything TFC owes Dero beyond the terms of his mutually-agreed upon contract.

[wzhxvy]

In the end, it will still be subjective I agree. But you have to have at least a general idea of what is and is not acceptable do you not? We'd think that the Supreme Court here was dealing more with the blurry lines of art and media. Where does Michaelangelo's David become art but Jenna Jameson is pornography?

Here we are not dealing with blurry lines. We are talking about acceptable behaviour and people are acting like some type of betrayal occurred on DeRo's part. For there to be betrayal there has to be an understanding of acceptable behaviour. I am trying to peg people down even to a general level of what an acceptable behaviour on his part here would actually be so we can judge whether people's reactions were justified.

There is no gray in this unfortunately for Dero. You need approval from the club that holds your contract.

And of all this does not even consider the fact that its a stupid decision for him personally. What if he gets injured ? Now what ?

[Wull]

Ok...so we can add point 3.b for those who are a little more lenient for DeRo. It could be that the club did not respond to the request and did not provide an approval or a disapproval and he went anyways. I can't imagine most supporters would be ok with this however, but some might be.

If that was what you were alluding to earlier Roogsy then it doesn't make him being there any more right. It would, however, mean Cochrane lied in his statement or had information withheld from him which is a problem for us as it shows no lessons have been learned with regard to running the club. It doesn't excuse the player though in any way

[Super Cereal]

Ok...so we can add point 3.b for those who are a little more lenient for DeRo. It could be that the club did not respond to the request and did not provide an approval or a disapproval and he went anyways. I can't imagine most supporters would be ok with this however, but some might be.

I can't see why anybody would be okay with that. Is that what the story will come down to? He notified the team and they gave no response?

If so, my stance won't be changing in the least.

[Suds]

If that was what you were alluding to earlier Roogsy then it doesn't make him being there any more right. It would, however, mean Cochrane lied in his statement or had information withheld from him which is a problem for us as it shows no lessons have been learned with regard to running the club. It doesn't excuse the player though in any way

although, Cochrane said TFC had not been approached by any other "club" ... maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but that could still mean DeRo or his agent contacted him or TFC, but up to that point Celtic had not

[Roogsy]

Disagree. I bet when the whole story comes out that blurry lines is exactly what we will be dealing with.

The whole TFC org chart, Anselmi, Cochrane, Klinsmann, it's all blurry lines right now. So is the question of what if anything TFC owes Dero beyond the terms of his mutually-agreed upon contract.


There is no gray in this unfortunately for Dero. You need approval from the club that holds your contract.

And of all this does not even consider the fact that its a stupid decision for him personally. What if he gets injured ? Now what ?


Conflicting views. Makes it hard for any player to know how to go about doing things in this organisation doesn't it?


I agree Ensco...MLSE is a mess. Their structure is not condusive to a winning culture. It is setup to make money (not a bad thing for a corporation, but a horrible thing for a fan). Their inner workings are a cumbersome mess.

[Chevy]

Conflicting views. Makes it hard for any player to know how to go about doing things in this organisation doesn't it?

Spin, baby. Spin......

[Wull]

although, Cochrane said TFC had not been approached by any other "club" ... maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but that could still mean DeRo or his agent contacted him or TFC, but up to that point Celtic had not

Actually he said "have not received word from anyone" which would negate any hair splitting

[Roogsy]

Um did you read the post? I didn't say it was ok. In fact my statement was "I can't imagine supporters would be ok with this". Seriously bro. Someone suggested it so I added it to the list as point 3.b.


Reposting for Wull, Super Cereal and anyone else who misunderstood. I simply added that point of view to the list for later discussion. I did not say "this is what happened".

[Roogsy]

Spin, baby. Spin......


No...just setting up the context. That isn't spin. That's just good information. If everything that comes from me is spin to you, all the best Chevy. You obviously can't differentiate between spin and contextual information and a rational conversation can't be had.

[Parkdale]

all this talk of spin is making me dizzy. Or maybe it's just the hangover I cant shake.

[Suds]

although, Cochrane said TFC had not been approached by any other "club" ... maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but that could still mean DeRo or his agent contacted him or TFC, but up to that point Celtic had not


EDIT ... need to correct my earlier post .. here is Cochran's quote

“We have not received word from anyone and expect him to be with TFC when training camp opens next month.”


I read that as him saying TFC had not been contacted by DeRo, his representatives, or Celtic.

[Super Cereal]

Reposting for Wull, Super Cereal and anyone else who misunderstood.

I understood. You also said some might be okay with it, and I just don't see how anyone could be, save for the radicals who would be okay with the TFC players going on strike.

[Suds]

Actually he said "have not received word from anyone" which would negate any hair splitting

yeah, just caught that when I re-read the quote from Cochrane

[Chevy]

No...just setting up the context. That isn't spin. That's just good information. If everything that comes from me is spin to you, all the best Chevy. You obviously can't differentiate between spin and contextual information and a rational conversation can't be had.

Sure pal.

Step 1 - Gather the opinions of the masses.
Step 2 - Modify and influence these opinions wherever possible.
Step 3 - Distill opinions into single message/issue
Step 4 - Craft appropriate response.

That's spin, baby.

I'll wait for your triumphant news release in Step 4.

[Roogsy]

Deflection and avoidance. You already know you're wrong so you're just trying to mitigate the effect of your foot in your mouth by reflecting it on me.

[Chevy]

I'll wait for your "news release" to determine that. Thanks.

Speaking of deflection and avoidance, where is that list of teams willing to pay DeRo $1m that you mentioned yesterday? Any news story, article, comment over the last DECADE to support that? Any facts, rumours, innuendo? Anything?

Nah...

[Roogsy]

I'll wait for your "news release" to determine that. Thanks.

Speaking of deflection and avoidance, where is that list of teams willing to pay DeRo $1m that you mentioned yesterday? Any news story, article, comment over the last DECADE to support that? Any facts, rumours, innuendo? Anything?

Nah...

I already gave you my response on that. I could care less if you want to goad information out of me. It's not yours to begin with. I am not going to burn sources so you can be more informed since being more informed does not make you a more intelligent poster to begin with?

[Chevy]

Answer the question please. I'm not trying to goad RPI out of you - you can reference any article, interview or rumour over the last DECADE. Anything in the public domain over the last ten years. Anything.

Well?

[Roogsy]

Who said the information was availabe in an article?

[Chevy]

Who said the information was availabe in an article?

Anywhere. Print, electronic, sanscrit. Any evidence at all in any form is fine.

Answer please.

[Roogsy]

Unlike you, I do answer questions as opposed to avoiding them.

There is no print, sanscrit, writing the sand. Anything. Because these expressions of interest are not in the public domain.

Now...will you bless us with your requirements on the trial issue or are you deflecting again to avoid answering?

[Chevy]

Unlike you, I do answer questions as opposed to avoiding them.

There is no print, sanscrit, writing the sand. Anything. Because these expressions of interest are not in the public domain.

Now...will you bless us with your requirements on the trial issue or are you deflecting again to avoid answering?

So you're saying that you have absolutely zero evidence that there are or were clubs willing to pay DeRo $1m a season? Am I correct in that?

[Roogsy]

No...the evidence I have is not something I can share. That's what I am saying. I suppose you will have to rely on my credibility. I could care less what level of credibility I have with you, but I am quite certain of the level of credibility I have elsewhere with people who aren't...you know...:out:


Still deflecting I see.

[Chevy]

Nice. Credibility comes hand in hand with evidence and supporting documentation. Of which you have none. Neither does anyone else! Funny, with terabytes of data numbering in the billions we can't find one shred of evidence that someone wants your beloved DeRo. But YOU have it, right?

Looking forward to your "news release". Should be a doozy.

Done.

[DichioTFC]

If DeRo wants to pursue employment elsewhere, more power to him. Canadian kid, local hero, good for him.

If, after trying to find employment elsewhere, he wants to come back to TFC, I would welcome that. He's talented and is obviously valuable.

The only precondition I would have is for him to never wear the armband again. Other than that, if he's able to find an employer that's willing to pay him more elsewhere, I can't really knock him for having the ambition. We're all hypocrites who go on Workopolis at our work computers, so who cares if DeRo does something similar? He's in it for the money and we should all acknowledge that my avatar is more accurate with each passing day.

[Roogsy]

Nice. Credibility comes hand in hand with evidence and supporting documentation. Of which you have none. Neither does anyone else! Funny, with terabytes of data numbering in the billions we can't find one shred of evidence that someone wants your beloved DeRo. But YOU have it, right?

Looking forward to your "news release". Should be a doozy.

Done.


Credibility comes hand in hand with track record as well. To you, the only piece of evidence would be a public record of expressions of interest. But if there weren't public records of these are you saying they don't exist privately? It's a nice piece of character assassination you are trying there but it's quite transparent.

[Parkdale]

everyone, let's keep this to the topic at hand

Dero - Cochrane - Toronto FC - Celtic etc

[Carts]

If DeRo wants to pursue employment elsewhere, more power to him. Canadian kid, local hero, good for him.

If, after trying to find employment elsewhere, he wants to come back to TFC, I would welcome that. He's talented and is obviously valuable.

The only precondition I would have is for him to never wear the armband again. Other than that, if he's able to find an employer that's willing to pay him more elsewhere, I can't really knock him for having the ambition. We're all hypocrites who go on Workopolis at our work computers, so who cares if DeRo does something similar? He's in it for the money and we should all acknowledge that my avatar is more accurate with each passing day.

If, you believe in your post, shouldn't all our avatars be ourselves with dollar signs in our eyes - instead of another persons face...???

But in fairness (other than the last 10-words or so) this is a true, neutral look at the situation...

In truth, our entire roster would most likely pic Celtic over TFC - despite what some supporters would like to believe...

Carts...

[Carts]

everyone, let's keep this to the topic at hand

Dero - Cochrane - Toronto FC - Celtic - Boobs - etc

Fixed your post ;)

[Parkdale]

^ my mistake..... boobs are great

[ilikemusic]

For all the people railing against DeRo, I would love to hear what it is that TFC management has done to inspire such faith. How anybody can jump to the defence of such an incompetent management group (over the leading scorer in franchise history no less) is just mind boggling.

[Parkdale]

For all the people railing against DeRo, I would love to hear what it is that TFC management has done to inspire such faith. How anybody can jump to the defence of such an incompetent management group (over the leading scorer in franchise history no less) is just mind boggling.


I think that the people who are upset with Dero in this situation are just sticking to the old fashioned sports values - loyalty, dedication, perseverance ...

the truth is that you can't take a pro athlete away from these imposed values, even when they are being treated badly by the club. Everyone seems to expect players to live up to a certain code, but when is the management ever held to that same standard?

[Beach_Red]

I think that the people who are upset with Dero in this situation are just sticking to the old fashioned sports values - loyalty, dedication, perseverance ...

the truth is that you can't take a pro athlete away from these imposed values, even when they are being treated badly by the club. Everyone seems to expect players to live up to a certain code, but when is the management ever held to that same standard?


That's true. And in this case we're still just figuring out that the management isn't like a real team's management, that no proper structure was ever put in place and still isn't in place.

We see the team TFC and think there's a front office like every other professional team.

[Super Cereal]

I think that the people who are upset with Dero in this situation are just sticking to the old fashioned sports values - loyalty, dedication, perseverance ...

the truth is that you can't take a pro athlete away from these imposed values, even when they are being treated badly by the club. Everyone seems to expect players to live up to a certain code, but when is the management ever held to that same standard?

Are you kidding? When is the management ever not held to the same standard on this site and by TFC fans?

As convenient as it is, management is not always to blame.

[Section 117]

I just spoke to my source and I was advised that he did not have permission to trial with Celtic or any other team.

That being said this will probably not end pretty, this is going to be one ugly divorce period.... Is his contract going to be voided probably not, but he will defintely be taken to task from both MLSE and the MLS.

[Roogsy]

Are you kidding? When is the management ever not held to the same standard on this site and by TFC fans?

As convenient as it is, management is not always to blame.


How can the club not have blame here? Are you saying they did not have the trial request WEEKS ago? Why are they telling the media one thing when the proof says otherwise?

[Super Cereal]

How can the club not have blame here? Are you saying they did not have the trial request WEEKS ago? Why are they telling the media one thing when the proof says otherwise?

When has the club said that a request was not made? You're seeing what you want to see.

[Suds]

How can the club not have blame here? Are you saying they did not have the trial request WEEKS ago? Why are they telling the media one thing when the proof says otherwise?

hold on ... is not the only proof we have on this what DeRo's reps have said as reported in The Star?

has this news of the request been confirmed from any other source? (not questioning you Roogsy, just that I only recall this from the statements from DeRo's reps, do we have other confirmation of this from MLS, Ives, etc?)

[Parkdale]

When has the club said that a request was not made?



“Dwayne is not going on trial with Celtic or any other club,” Cochrane told MLSsoccer.com. “We have not received word from anyone and expect him to be with TFC when training camp opens next month.”

from their website

[Roogsy]

hold on ... is not the only proof we have on this what DeRo's reps have said?

has this news of the request been confirmed from any other source?

The only other possible source is TFC and they are not saying anything other than they were "not aware". Really we are all waiting for their word on this because either they come out and call DeRo a liar or have to admit that they did know about the trial request and lied to the media. I can't see any other conclusion to this.

[Beach_Red]

Are you kidding? When is the management ever not held to the same standard on this site and by TFC fans?

As convenient as it is, management is not always to blame.


No, management is almost never held accountabe. Individuals within management are called out all the time, but the structure (or lack of structure) that they've had running TFC since the beginning has only been called out a couple of times and even then it's usually dropped quickly in favour of calling out individuals.

[Pookie]

^ just play hypothetical for a minute.

If this was engineered by DeRo, or more specifically, his agent... what does Celtic think of all of this?

[Super Cereal]

from their website

And? Do you think they received word that DeRo was going to go on trial without permission?

Highly doubtful.

[Roogsy]

^ just play hypothetical for a minute.

If this was engineered by DeRo, or more specifically, his agent... what does Celtic think of all of this?


I can't imagine they're interested in the drama.

[Baggio2TFC]

What if he is just there to train?? You know, keep fit? Didn`t one Beckham do this once with a lower league EPL team? Maybe he is starting to realize he is gettin g older and wants to just keep fit? What better training then with a team in the nmiddle of their seasaon?

Just saying.

[Roogsy]

What if he is just there to train?? You know, keep fit? Didn`t one Beckham do this once with a lower league EPL team? Maybe he is starting to realize he is gettin g older and wants to just keep fit? What better training then with a team in the nmiddle of their seasaon?

Just saying.


I think you still have to seek permission from your current club.

[Super Cereal]

Really we are all waiting for their word on this because either they come out and call DeRo a liar or have to admit that they did know about the trial request and lied to the media.

I don't know why you seem to be ignoring mine and Pookie's posts, but we've explained countless times how even if a request has been made weeks ago, and I'm sure it was, the front office did not lie.

I'll explain once again. If permission was never granted, which it wasn't, then TFC were likely unaware that DeRo was going to go anyways. It's simple really.

[Suds]

The only other possible source is TFC and they are not saying anything other than they were "not aware". Really we are all waiting for their word on this because either they come out and call DeRo a liar or have to admit that they did know about the trial request and lied to the media. I can't see any other conclusion to this.


I agree that I only see one side losing face over this. Both DeRo's camp and TFC have pretty much drawn a line in the sand with their public statements.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Roogsy]

I don't know why you seem to be ignoring mine and Pookie's posts, but we've explained countless times how even if a request has been made weeks ago, and I'm sure it was, the front office did not lie.

I'll explain once again. If permission was never granted, which it wasn't, then TFC were likely unaware that DeRo was going to go anyways. It's simple really.


Not ignoring anything. We're in two different threads and I responded to this in the other thread. TFC mislead the public with their statement that they were not "aware" of a trial. Maybe they parsed words so that it actually means that they did not provide permission but that is beside the point. The point here is that DeRo submitted the request as he should have.

As for permission, I do agree he needed permission to go.

[Roogsy]

I agree that I only see one side losing face over this. Both DeRo's camp and TFC have pretty much drawn a line in the sand with their public statements.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

This really is a gunfight at the OK Corral.

What I do see is DeRo playing elsewhere next season. It is what it is.

That is life in sports.

[Section 117]

Dero to San Jose rumor is about to heat up again

[Super Cereal]

TFC mislead the public with their statement that they were not "aware" of a trial.

I disagree. They never said they were unaware of a request, simply unaware of a trial. Without permission of course they assumed no trial would take place.

[Beach_Red]

I disagree. They never said they were unaware of a request, simply unaware of a trial. Without permission of course they assumed no trial would take place.


Then they should have said that. They should have been absolutely clear in their statement and on their website. They should have said, "A request was made and permission was denied."

But this team has never been upfront and clear about anything.

[Chevy]

This really is a gunfight at the OK Corral.

What I do see is DeRo playing elsewhere next season. It is what it is.

That is life in sports.


That's one thing we agree on.

So, I'm guessing that no "news release" is forthcoming?

[Roogsy]

Then they should have said that. They should have been absolutely clear in their statement and on their website. They should have said, "A request was made and permission was denied."

But this team has never been upfront and clear about anything.

Exactly.

From the original article:


Cochrane said he’s not surprised to see De Rosario's name being linked to European teams. He suggested that the player's agent may be responsible for the rumor.


This was the opportunity for Earl to confirm there was an opportunity that was requested and denied, approved whatever. Instead he made it sound like a rumour that had no legs, deflecting the point of whether there was a trial offered to a point regarding whether TFC was aware of it happening.

[Super Cereal]

Then they should have said that. They should have been absolutely clear in their statement and on their website. They should have said, "A request was made and permission was denied."

But this team has never been upfront and clear about anything.

No they shouldn't have. It's not their responsibility to release every but of information. If certain people read into their quotes too much, that isn't their problem.

[Roogsy]

That's one thing we agree on.

So, I'm guessing that no "news release" is forthcoming?

I know there are other media outlets working on stories. I assume they are even more responsible than I am and confirming sources and trying to get all sides to the story. I don't know their timeline. I don't claim to know more than I do.

[Roogsy]

Dero to San Jose rumor is about to heat up again


To be honest, this is where I'd place my bet.

[Pookie]

Dero to San Jose rumor is about to heat up again

You don't think he's got a chance to stick at Celtic? Even through the end of the season with a mid-season return to San Jose (MLS)?

Juan Pablo Angel is looking closer to wearing Red every day.

[Beach_Red]

No they shouldn't have. It's not their responsibility to release every but of information. If certain people read into their quotes too much, that isn't their problem.


Sure, it's not their responsibility, they don't have to. But this is the organization that sent out a huge, "Sorry" to its fans last month and had town hall meetings to beg forgiveness for the fact they screwed up.

And then they sold all the season tickets and we're right back where we were with them.

[Chevy]

I know there are other media outlets working on stories. I assume they are even more responsible than I am and confirming sources and trying to get all sides to the story. I don't know their timeline. I don't claim to know more than I do.

Sure. But remember that red font alert? Where's your info?

Not working out for you I guess. Knuckleball. No spin to be found here.

[Section 117]

Pookie - I think TFC has a better chance of signing Ladycakes then Dero making Celtic.

Also, the deal with San Jose was actually help the squad. But after Dero's stunt I think instead of getting 50 cents on the dollar we will be lucky to get 5 cents on the dollar

[MartinUtd]

Entering this one late, didn't read through the 7 pages but I just have a simple question...


Why void the contract when it could potentially be bought out by Celtic? I'd say wait and see if there's a payday on the horizon before acting.

[Chevy]

Entering this one late, didn't read through the 7 pages but I just have a simple question...


Why void the contract when it could potentially be bought out by Celtic? I'd say wait and see if there's a payday on the horizon before acting.

The thread title was/is an opinion and wasn't based on a comment by Cochrane or TFC. At least not yet. :facepalm:

[MartinUtd]

ah.. makes sense.

Man there's a lot of doom and gloom on the board today.

[Chevy]

ah.. makes sense.

Man there's a lot of doom and gloom on the board today.

...and it's only December. :picard:

[shwade]

what a shitshow

[VPjr]

wow...what a crazy turn of events today. It is really unfortunate that this has taken place.

It is not uncommon for a pro player who is out of season to request permission to train with a club that is in season. This happens with some regularity.

The issue, in this case, simply comes down to whether permission was granted. For a whole slew of reasons (respecting the club you are contracted to as the #1 reason but also for liability reasons) a player with a contract absolutely must get that permission before he steps onto the training pitch for another club. If it is a formal trial, then there would be some sort of formal trial period agreement in place.

Having said that, I am quite sure that players will occasionally train with a club without explicit permission from their club while under contract. It is risky to do so but I am sure it happens. I know that we were approached by some Canadian players who are under contract overseas to attend some MFC sessions this summer because they were off for the summer and wanted to stay sharp. We declined because we don't want to take any chances.

I can't see Celtic offering enough money to MLS/TFC to buy him outright. Celtic isn't exactly flush with cash that they can splash around big dollars for 32 year old Canadian internationals. I would think MLS would want good money for him. The Kenny Cooper saga of a couple of years ago comes to mind, where MLS decided Cooper was worth more to the league than they would get for selling him and opted to keep him around against his will.

I also don't see TFC being willing to agree to a loan deal (what good would it do TFC? They need to win this year. You don't want a guy coming back in July).

I've been critical of TFC at times in the past but I've got to say that I feel for Paul, Earl, Jim et al. They did not need this drama, especially during the Christmas period, when operations would normally tend to slow down a bit. The organization has more than enough on its plate. I honestly hope this will end up being a case of major miscommunication because if DeRo really went to Glasgow without permission, it would be a very disrespectful thing to do and if he doesn't have respect for the club, you have to reconsider keeping him around.

[Darlofletch]

this was a really bad day to go back to work, just finished reading this now, haven't even started on the other big thread.

craziness, I guess I'll have to wait for official news to confirm any of the inferences of blame that are being gently thrown out here.

one thing I'll say though, for all those who've argued that people are being impatient, and it's fine that it's taking this long for a new gm/coach to be named, it's ok if it takes a while as long as they get the right person, do you still feel that way?

If we actually had someone in charge with full authority to negotiate with de ro and make decisions, I'm guessing it wouldn't have gone down like this. This has obviously been going on for a long time, but it's over 3 months now since de ro started putting the pressure opn with his cheque signing, and the situation's just been allowed to drift along with no resolution. is anyone surprised that it's now blowing up to the point where either the club is lying, or de ro's lying, but either way things have gone to shit? I'm not.

another interesting possible angle to this (I have absolutely no inside sources, I'm just putting 2 and 2 together, more than likely I am wrong but...) remember klinsmann's sportsnet interview? when he was talking about how mls players need to learn what it's like to be a real professional, playing 10 or 11 months a year, to be able to really develop?

and all of a sudden, it's now that dero is trialling overseas with talk of a loan? intersting coincidence no?

[Pookie]

one thing I'll say though, for all those who've argued that people are being impatient, and it's fine that it's taking this long for a new gm/coach to be named, it's ok if it takes a while as long as they get the right person, do you still feel that way?

If we actually had someone in charge with full authority to negotiate with de ro and make decisions, I'm guessing it wouldn't have gone down like this. This has obviously been going on for a long time, but it's over 3 months now since de ro started putting the pressure opn with his cheque signing, and the situation's just been allowed to drift along with no resolution. is anyone surprised that it's now blowing up to the point where either the club is lying, or de ro's lying, but either way things have gone to shit? I'm not.


I'm not so sure having a manager would have resulted in a different outcome.

It could very well be that TFC do not see a future with DeRo in it. The transfer window becomes an opportunity to get returns (allocation money) and since that window has a fixed date, how would a new manager play his cards any differently?

Age is a factor for him. Skills decline. He wants them to pony up cash and possibly term. It would be a stupid... fucking stupid... decision to hand him a raise and a DP slot when you know the hands of time will impact him over the duration of his contract.

In much the same way that people don't want to touch Angel with his DP salary, that will be DeRo at some point in the future. Now whether that point comes in April 2011 or well into 2014, who knows. But we do know that when clubs put big money into contracts for aging players, it almost never ends good (see, Leafs - Unrestricted Free Agent Signings)

[Beach_Red]

It could very well be that TFC do not see a future with DeRo in it.




Maybe a real manager would have told him that by now instead of the way MLSE seem to be stringing him along, talking about renegotiating, saying they'll talk to him and just generally putting it off.

[Pookie]

^ who's to say they haven't told him that?

I mean, why would he want to go to Scotland if he thinks he's got a shot at a DP slot and salary with 7 digits in it?

[Beach_Red]

^ who's to say they haven't told him that?

I mean, why would he want to go to Scotland if he thinks he's got a shot at a DP slot and salary with 7 digits in it?

Then why don't they say that? (we're talking about this in two threads now, by the way) Why did Anselmi say they were willing to renegotiate right after the cheque signing? Is Anselmi saying one thing in private and another in public? Is this part of his "learning" how to run a team?

TFC has never been very open or communicative. Maybe they don't have to be, sure, but it will always lead to this kind of mess.

[Pookie]

Is Anselmi saying one thing in private and another in public?


Yep.

Face saving on both parties is an objective in any negotiation.

I honestly think they understand each other's "win" and recognize that they aren't in the same ball park.

There is no other reason for DeRo to consider a move to Scotland if there was an eventual solution that could work for both parties.

[Vital_TorontoFC]

ripping up the contract is the last thing TFC should do. On the upside, it raises De Rosario's profile, more clubs may come sniffing around, meaning a bigger transfer fee or battle for his signature. Also this whole saga raises the profile of the club, living in the UK I can say a lot of people have never heard of Toronto FC until this saga. Every cloud has a silver lining and all that?

[VPjr]

one thing I'll say though, for all those who've argued that people are being impatient, and it's fine that it's taking this long for a new gm/coach to be named, it's ok if it takes a while as long as they get the right person, do you still feel that way?

If we actually had someone in charge with full authority to negotiate with de ro and make decisions, I'm guessing it wouldn't have gone down like this. This has obviously been going on for a long time, but it's over 3 months now since de ro started putting the pressure opn with his cheque signing, and the situation's just been allowed to drift along with no resolution. is anyone surprised that it's now blowing up to the point where either the club is lying, or de ro's lying, but either way things have gone to shit? I'm not.



I honestly believe that TFC continues to function fairly smoothly. I think Paul, Earl, Jimmy, etc.... have all the authority to do what is necessary to get the club ready for next season and they have Jurgen and his company consulting with them.

Dont be surprised if there are some player announcements when the transfer window opens next week. The fact that there are no rumours about incoming players means that TFC's head office is doing a great job of controlling the flow of information. That alone is a huge improvement over the MoJo era.

Anyone who thinks that TFC would be going into (arguably) its most important year not having done anything at all these past few month would be wrong.

Would it be better if a head coach were in place and a permanent GM were named? Sure. But that doesn't mean work isn't being done.

My read on the situation is that negotiating with DeRo on a new contract is probably not TFC's highest priority. Dwayne has a contract and he is well paid by MLS standards. It takes two parties to renegotiate a deal. Maybe Jurgen, Earl, Jim, etc... believe they need to be focusing their time and effort on other priorities.

As I stated before, I just hope there is a massive miscommunication here, whereby Dwayne thought he had permission to showcase himself to other clubs.

[Chevy]

^ who's to say they haven't told him that?

I mean, why would he want to go to Scotland if he thinks he's got a shot at a DP slot and salary with 7 digits in it?

Because he KNOWS he doesn't have a hope in hell of getting his million bucks a year.

We haven't seen any evidence of anyone willing to pay him those dollars, now or ever.

[Roogsy]

My read on the situation is that negotiating with DeRo on a new contract is probably not TFC's highest priority. Dwayne has a contract and he is well paid by MLS standards. It takes two parties to renegotiate a deal. Maybe Jurgen, Earl, Jim, etc... believe they need to be focusing their time and effort on other priorities.

I disagree. Regardless of what is going on with the trial issue, DeRo's camp was clear in both articles that DeRo has requested to reopen negotiations and TFC has not responded yay or nay. I wouldn't call that a "priority".

Whether or not TFC decide to renegotiate or to pick up the option on his contract, you'd think for your top goal scorer you'd tell them your decision either way. They have not done that. Is that how a professional team treats it's best player?

[billyfly]

I disagree. Regardless of what is going on with the trial issue, DeRo's camp was clear in both articles that DeRo has requested to reopen negotiations and TFC has not responded yay or nay. I wouldn't call that a "priority".

Whether or not TFC decide to renegotiate or to pick up the option on his contract, you'd think for your top goal scorer you'd tell them your decision either way. They have not done that. Is that how a professional team treats it's best player?


I agree Roogsy but sometimes no answer is the answer.

Sounds like TFC for whatever reason don;t want to give DeRo more money. Not sure if that is the right or wrong decision and time will tell.

[ArmenJBX]

Roogsy, what do you want for De Rosario?
What is it that you're fighting for, DP Status for him?
Furthermore, what does HE want?

I can't wait to hear what happens in 5 years when De Rosario is retired. Will you fight this hard for another player?

I don't get how one man can exemplify another player, the way you seemingly try to do. De Rosario can defend himself.

[Chevy]

Roogsy, what do you want for De Rosario?
What is it that you're fighting for?
DP Status for him?
Furthermore, what does HE want?

Is that what all this defending is about?
I can't wait to hear what happens in 5 years when De Rosario is retired. Will you fight this hard for another player?

I don't get how one man can exemplify another player, the way you seemingly try to do. De Rosario can defend himself.

It's called being a paid shilll.

[Roogsy]

It's called being a paid shilll.


What proof do you have of this oh ye of "evidence" brigade? Make an assertion, back it up.

[ArmenJBX]

I asked him, no need to hijack the questions.

I just want to know what your angle is, why you try so hard to stick up for one guy?

[Chevy]

What proof do you have of this?

I have unconfirmed reports.

[Chevy]

I asked him, no need to hijack the questions.

I just want to know what your angle is, why you try so hard to stick up for one guy?

Agreed. It was an honest answer though.

Continue....

[Roogsy]

Roogsy, what do you want for De Rosario?
What is it that you're fighting for, DP Status for him?
Furthermore, what does HE want?

I can't wait to hear what happens in 5 years when De Rosario is retired. Will you fight this hard for another player?

I don't get how one man can exemplify another player, the way you seemingly try to do. De Rosario can defend himself.

There are a whole lot of questions here...not sure which one to answer.

What do I want for DeRo? At this point I'd be happy if Toronto let him go play elsewhere. The relationship is damaged. There is no trust on either side.

What am I fighting for? Acknowledgment by the supporters of what DeRo brings to this team as opposed to concentrating on non-football stuff.

What does he want? He's told us over and over, this is no secret.

Can DeRo defend himself? Well, since he has his hands full getting ready for a new season and trying to sort out his contract situation, I doubt he can handle all these unfounded accusations and dismissals of his accomplishments. So that's what I do and if someone did the same to another player on TFC with the same accomplishments, I would take the same position.

[Roogsy]

I have unconfirmed reports.


Shouldn't you be held to he same standard that you demand of others? Again...what proof do you have that I have a monetary interest in DeRo's career?

[Chevy]

What proof do you have of this oh ye of "evidence" brigade? Make an assertion, back it up.

Pot, meet kettle.

Regardless, answer Jimmy's question. sorry to hijack.

[Roogsy]

I agree Roogsy but sometimes no answer is the answer.

Sounds like TFC for whatever reason don;t want to give DeRo more money. Not sure if that is the right or wrong decision and time will tell.

Bullshit Billy. No answer is never an answer. That's disrespectful to anyone. A player. A family member. A friend. A client. A colleague. Whatever.

[Roogsy]

Pot, meet kettle.

Regardless, answer Jimmy's question. sorry to hijack.


You have it backwards. I never demanded anything until you started making demands first. Since you are the one that set the standard, you have to meet the burden first. So please....provide it and stop the avoidance.

[billyfly]

Bullshit Billy. No answer is never an answer. That's disrespectful to anyone. A player. A family member. A friend. A client. A colleague. Whatever.

No answer is a BS answer if you are respectful of each other.

But if you don't care....

I have never rec'd a call from HR or hiring depts when I haven't gotten a job. Officially maybe I am still in contention..lol

[Roogsy]

No answer is a BS answer if you are respectful of each other.

But if you don't care....

I have never rec'd a call from HR or hiring depts when I haven't gotten a job. Officially maybe I am still in contention..lol


Ever done reno's on your home? If a contractor comes to you and says "this will cost $10,000 more" do you simply not respond to him?

There is no implied relationship when applying for a job. There is when there is a contract.

[billyfly]

There are a whole lot of questions here...not sure which one to answer.

What do I want for DeRo? At this point I'd be happy if Toronto let him go play elsewhere. The relationship is damaged. There is no trust on either side.

What am I fighting for? Acknowledgment by the supporters of what DeRo brings to this team as opposed to concentrating on non-football stuff.

What does he want? He's told us over and over, this is no secret.

Can DeRo defend himself? Well, since he has his hands full getting ready for a new season and trying to sort out his contract situation, I doubt he can handle all these unfounded accusations and dismissals of his accomplishments. So that's what I do and if someone did the same to another player on TFC with the same accomplishments, I would take the same position.

Agreed with all your points. in regards to you and Chevy - There is no real reason that we on this board should be arguing with one another.

I think that many dismiss his accomplishments too easily but I also understand that maybe it's better for TFC to let him go.

[billyfly]

Ever done reno's on your home? If a contractor comes to you and says "this will cost $10,000 more" do you simply not respond to him?

There is no implied relationship when applying for a job. There is when there is a contract.

My job reference is more to show "lack of respect" that most probably exists right now b/t DeRo and TFC FO.

Your Reno/contractor example also points to my earlier reference that unless I said "yes", the contractor should not assume I want pink walls.

[Beach_Red]

Agreed with all your points. in regards to you and Chevy - There is no real reason that we on this board should be arguing with one another.

I think that many dismiss his accomplishments too easily but I also understand that maybe it's better for TFC to let him go.

I just wish TFC was more in control of this situation. It does look like now they will definitely have to deal DeRo, probably to San Jose and probably for nothing. Did it have to be that way? Back when the cheque signing incident happened was it handled well by anyone? DeRo apologized and Anselmi said, publicly, they'd negotiate - of course, why was HE saying anything, shouldn't it have been up to the GM? Perhaps then behind closed doors TFC made a decision about DeRo's future and told him, or didn't tell him hoping he'd get the hint or something, but it dragged on.

So, season five and TFC will start from scratch again.

[Pookie]

Whether or not TFC decide to renegotiate or to pick up the option on his contract, you'd think for your top goal scorer you'd tell them your decision either way. They have not done that. Is that how a professional team treats it's best player?

Who is to say they haven't told him (or his agent) that they'd be nuts to think he would get a DP tag at 33?

Otherwise, why bother with Scotland if this is a possibility?

[jloome]

DeRo is a Yashin??? Your fuckin kidding me???? You people are the reason I spend less time on this board with horse shit comparisons like this.

Catch-all statements like this are good enough reason for me. Do us a favour: if everyone else's cognitive abilities pale in the face of your genius, spare us your genius.

Seriously, the whole DeRo issue is obviously a very two-sided debate. For those coasting on the fumes of absolute certainty, you'd probably all get a lot more people's respect and attention with a little humility.

There's no way an issue as hotly contested as this is black-and-white, we're missing HUGE swaths of reliable, sourced information that would be required to reach an informed conclusion.

Do I think DeRo would ignore TFC if the league said he could go? Probably. It's business. But I'm not going to judge either him for it or the team, because I don't have enough info to do so.

This thread is a rip-fest sans ammunition.

[Roogsy]

Who is to say they haven't told him (or his agent) that they'd be nuts to think he would get a DP tag at 33?

Otherwise, why bother with Scotland if this is a possibility?


They have not told him either way, that's what I am saying. If it were you, would you have put an end to this situation? I know I would have. If I was Tom A I would have told DeRo way back when "It ain't happening".

[Pookie]

^ if the price to keep him here was going to have to be a DP tag and a contract that sees him turn 35 in Red (at a minimum) then moving on is the best thing for all concerned.

[Pookie]

They have not told him either way, that's what I am saying. If it were you, would you have put an end to this situation? I know I would have. If I was Tom A I would have told DeRo way back when "It ain't happening".

I find it hard to believe that his agent has no idea as to the odds of him securing the deal that he covets at this point in time.

[Milky]

We need a general manager and/or head coach ASAP.

[Roogsy]

I find it hard to believe that his agent has no idea as to the odds of him securing the deal that he covets at this point in time.

Is it really that hard to believe considering what is happening today? We're forgetting that TFC has known about DeRo's intention to trial elsewhere THREE weeks ago. Why has TFC not come out and admitted that they said yes or no? Why is this coming to a head 3 weeks later?

When you know the answer to that, you will believe almost anything about the negotiation situation between the team and DeRo.

[Pookie]

As an agent, it is my job to get the best possible deal for my client.

What do I tell my client, "he hasn't returned my email yet, I'll leave him another voice message?"

It is extremely hard to believe that an agent, essentially a professional negotiator and salesperson, would have no idea what his position is with the club at this point in time.

[Section 117]

But really is team obligated to tell us anything. No so if his agent said Dero is going to Celtic. Earl ok get the paper work I will let you know. No paper work equals no answer. No reason to tell the fans anything.

Back to his contract. Dero should tell his agent to give back the 10% or whatever he got for the contract as that is who screwed Dero no one else. He should honor his contract, but between the cheque signing incident and now the trial with Celtic his time with TFC is done. It was a nice ride, but don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

[Roogsy]

Believe me I do not have high regard for DeRo's agent. Much of the problems going on in this entire situation falls right on his shoulders.