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J .
12-23-2010, 04:04 PM
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20101128/sports/sports11.html

TFC Academy player Astone Morgan in the piece above demonstrates his disloyalty to Canada while the TFCA has stated in the past it is developing players with the intent they will play for Canada.

With Morgan demonstrating he is favouring Jamaica over Canada, despite playing for the u-Canadian teams and the TFCA, should he be allowed to continue to develop in Canada while he cheers for and would play for Jamaica?

Ossington Mental Youth
12-23-2010, 04:07 PM
no theyve got to abide by their promise that they made (if im not mistaken, they said that club players will play for Can Nats or they wont play for the club at all, or something to taht effect).

Kid cant be that amazing and we dont need to feed other nat teams, its been a problem long enough.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-23-2010, 04:08 PM
ps im generally club over country and my love of the national team has been less than satisfactory as of late but i really cant support this kid (or other kids) pulling this ish

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 04:12 PM
We need to drop this holier than thou attitude. If he's a good prospect then he should have a shot at TFC. Just as long as no CSA resources are being thrown his way.

Seriously though, should Chelsea drop all their non English youth? Why should we?

Ossington Mental Youth
12-23-2010, 04:14 PM
well, than by that we should drop the mandate as well, then i wont have a problem (or ill have less of a problem with it), cant stand hypocracy tho...

J .
12-23-2010, 04:15 PM
We need to drop this holier than thou attitude. If he's a good prospect then he should have a shot at TFC. Just as long as no CSA resources are being thrown his way.

Seriously though, should Chelsea drop all their non English youth? Why should we?

He's playing on the u-Canada teams if that helps clarify.

Brooker
12-23-2010, 04:15 PM
Seriously though, should Chelsea drop all their non English youth? Why should we?

What does that have to do with any of this?

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 04:16 PM
We should drop it. As much as I hate reading about this two faced little fucks I don't think TFC should be shilling for the CSA.

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 04:19 PM
What does that have to do with any of this?

The question was "Should Astone Morgan play for TFC" in the context that his lack of loyalty to the club's country should have something to do whether he's fit for play for TFC.

Screw the mandate, I want our club to get better. You don't do that with isolation.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-23-2010, 04:22 PM
We should drop it. As much as I hate reading about this two faced little fucks I don't think TFC should be shilling for the CSA.

i understand this as well however that means another 20-30 years of a shit canadian national team (or potentially montreal and van being feeder clubs to the national team with TFC looking bad)

Brooker
12-23-2010, 04:22 PM
The question was "Should Astone Morgan play for TFC" in the context that his lack of loyalty to the club's country should have anything to do whether he's fit for play for TFC.

Screw the mandate, I want our club to get better. You don't do that with isolation.

Sorry you just posed the question as if people are saying we should drop any of our youth that isn't Canadian by saying "Should Chelsea drop any of their non-english youth." which I don't think the question is. Youth is 15-24 according to United Nations. I don't want to drop Stefan Frei. :o

If Morgan picks Jamaica over Canada I would hate him. Boo every time he gets a touch? Maybe. :D

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 04:23 PM
He's playing on the u-Canada teams if that helps clarify.

Not really. TFCA and u-Canada are two completely separate entities. If we want to be forever saddled with a team of Pozniak's and Lombardo's then we'll need to at least consider training internationals.

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 04:24 PM
Sorry you just posed the question as if people are saying we should drop any of our youth that isn't Canadian by saying "Should Chelsea drop any of their non-english youth." which I don't think the question is. Youth is 15-24 according to United Nations. I don't want to drop Stefan Frei. :o

If Morgan picks Jamaica over Canada I would hate him. Boo every time he gets a touch? Maybe. :D


Maybe I'm not understanding something here. If we were to drop Morgan soley on the basis of his loyalty to Jamaica, wouldn't that set a really bad precedent for TFCA?

J .
12-23-2010, 04:26 PM
I think if the quality of TFC is going to improve, it is prudent to invest heavily on bringing in local domestic talent which is cheaper than purchasing talent developed elsewhere.

It helps TFC and the NT. If someone is taking up a spot on a u-canada or the TFCA like Begovic or Bunbury or like Morgan on both, only to move on once we have developed them, I think is ridiculous and in the end we lose out on the time and money invested.

In the end one of the best things that could happen to TFC and the NT is for them to develop Canadians and sell them abroad. It will grow TFC and NT quality and in return will attract talent back as the base quality of the players improve.

Wasting money on dudes who turn their backs on the places that raised them and taught them football is ridiculous.

J .
12-23-2010, 04:26 PM
Maybe I'm not understanding something here. If we were to drop Morgan soley on the basis of his loyalty to Jamaica, wouldn't that set a really bad precedent for TFCA?

Not really, actually, it would be consistant with their mission to develop Canadian talent.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-23-2010, 04:33 PM
if im not mistaken Chivas or Pachuca makes a point of it as well.
Basically comes down to how one feels about the national team.
Still club before country but if its TFCs mandate we gotta stick by it. Cant really say ive got an issue with it. The kids are always free to take their talent elsewhere. Lord knows it most likely wont be in Canada.

Pachuco
12-23-2010, 04:41 PM
Who give a rats ass what national team he wants to play for. Last time I checked TFC was a football club. It's irrelevant where the kid comes from, plays in the future, etc. What matters is whether he's the best available to play for the Academy. And since he's a damn good prospect, it would be ridicolous and silly to rule the guy out because of his country of choice. How in the world do people ever expect to be competitive when we are going to limit ourselves to drawing from Canadian talent only. England, French and Spanish clubs don't do that and for fucks sakes they have way better talent then we do to draw from.

Beach_Red
12-23-2010, 04:45 PM
well, than by that we should drop the mandate as well, then i wont have a problem (or ill have less of a problem with it), cant stand hypocracy tho...

Other than words, what is there to the "mandate?"

Super Cereal
12-23-2010, 04:49 PM
No.

I would drop him from the Academy based off the jersey comments alone.

If he's going to take one of the major purposes of the Academy for granted, he can fuck off. Tired of these two-faced fucks.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-23-2010, 04:51 PM
Other than words, what is there to the "mandate?"

im a little confused. is this question rhetorical?

that TFC creates canadian players to play for the canadian national team?

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 04:52 PM
I think if the quality of TFC is going to improve, it is prudent to invest heavily on bringing in local domestic talent which is cheaper than purchasing talent developed elsewhere.

It helps TFC and the NT. If someone is taking up a spot on a u-canada or the TFCA like Begovic or Bunbury or like Morgan on both, only to move on once we have developed them, I think is ridiculous and in the end we lose out on the time and money invested.

In the end one of the best things that could happen to TFC and the NT is for them to develop Canadians and sell them abroad. It will grow TFC and NT quality and in return will attract talent back as the base quality of the players improve.

Wasting money on dudes who turn their backs on the places that raised them and taught them football is ridiculous.


What if he plays for Jamaica and then some club in Portugal/Greece/Sweden/etc wants to buy him for $3 million? Is it still better for TFC to drop him out of a matter of national pride?

Super Cereal
12-23-2010, 04:58 PM
What if he plays for Jamaica and then some club in Portugal/Greece/Sweden/etc wants to buy him for $3 million? Is it still better for TFC to drop him out of a matter of national pride?

What if he scores 80,000 goals for Jamaica and unseats Pele as the greatest soccer player ever?

What ifs are not a good enough reason to keep a cunt.

LesH
12-23-2010, 05:04 PM
Who give a rats ass what national team he wants to play for. Last time I checked TFC was a football club. It's irrelevant where the kid comes from, plays in the future, etc. What matters is whether he's the best available to play for the Academy. And since he's a damn good prospect, it would be ridicolous and silly to rule the guy out because of his country of choice. How in the world do people ever expect to be competitive when we are going to limit ourselves to drawing from Canadian talent only. England, French and Spanish clubs don't do that and for fucks sakes they have way better talent then we do to draw from.

===

+1

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 05:04 PM
What if he scores 80,000 goals for Jamaica and unseats Pele as the greatest soccer player ever?

What ifs are not a good enough reason to keep a cunt.

Then TFC get's $50million for the sale.

Don't be ridiculous. I get the whole wearing your heart on your sleeve thing, but we're running a soccer club here. Drop the nationalism and simply make sure that no NATIONAL TEAM resources are spent on the kid.

We need to look at TFC and the Canadian NT as mutually exclusive entities.

Beach_Red
12-23-2010, 05:06 PM
im a little confused. is this question rhetorical?

that TFC creates canadian players to play for the canadian national team?

No, it's not rhetorical. How do they do this? They haven't restricted the academy to only players only eligible for the Canadian team. Do they just hope the players in the academy will select Canada even though they qualify for other countries as well?

It's like when they said they felt it was important to develop Canadian coaches. Important to whom? Did they poll season ticket holders? Was it a requirement to get a lease at the national soccer stadium?

LesH
12-23-2010, 05:07 PM
Then TFC get's $50million for the sale.

Don't be ridiculous. I get the whole wearing your heart on your sleeve thing, but we're running a soccer club here. Drop the nationalism and simply make sure that no NATIONAL TEAM resources are spent on the kid.

We need to look at TFC and the Canadian NT as mutually exclusive entities.

+1 again

I just wanted to edit my last +1 remark to add that we must draw a very distinct borderline between TFC and the national team, but you took out the words from my mouth, lol.

J .
12-23-2010, 05:40 PM
Look at Barca and how their homegrown Spanish talent has transformed their football at the club and national level.

There needs to be nationalism in football, especially for a minnow like Canada to improve which means the clubs have to focus on developing players that will feed the NT.

I understand many people are Canadian by passport and therefore do not understand the bond many have with this great country, but as a nationalist and pure Canadian, its sort of ridiculous to utilize both national and club football resources for purely selfish motivations without reprocussions from the club, u- clubs and supporters.

TFCRegina
12-23-2010, 05:51 PM
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20101128/sports/sports11.html

TFC Academy player Astone Morgan in the piece above demonstrates his disloyalty to Canada while the TFCA has stated in the past it is developing players with the intent they will play for Canada.

With Morgan demonstrating he is favouring Jamaica over Canada, despite playing for the u-Canadian teams and the TFCA, should he be allowed to continue to develop in Canada while he cheers for and would play for Jamaica?

Old article. As far as his family, and the CSA are concerned, Morgan is still a Canadian and with the Canadian program. We debated this endlessly already.

And even if he wasn't Canadian, why shouldn't we take him, he's our academy product after all.

anonymiss
12-23-2010, 06:03 PM
We need to look at TFC and the Canadian NT as mutually exclusive entities.

Many people don't see it this way. They see TFC and its Academy as very much related to the Canadian NT. Where else is the Canadian talent supposed to develop? It seems somewhat relative to mention the current articles outlining the supposed state of Canadian soccer on the TFC site all reference player development as being the key to our future. They even cite Toronto and Vancouver's successes in this area. It seems then that some people are under the impression they are not separate entities...

TFCRegina
12-23-2010, 06:17 PM
Many people don't see it this way. They see TFC and its Academy as very much related to the Canadian NT. Where else is the Canadian talent supposed to develop? It seems somewhat relative to mention the current articles outlining the supposed state of Canadian soccer on the TFC site all reference player development as being the key to our future. They even cite Toronto and Vancouver's successes in this area. It seems then that some people are under the impression they are not separate entities...

Look, I would love to have a team of entirely Canadian players. But I will settle for the best we can get for the money we can pay.

Thankfully, at the money we can pay we can have a fair bit (I figure as many as 6 decent to great Canucks) of Canadian content. Doesn't mean the whole team needs to be though.

I'll be pissed at Morgan if he switches, but because he wasted CMNT resources in the youth programs.

Super Cereal
12-23-2010, 06:49 PM
Look at Barca and how their homegrown Spanish talent has transformed their football at the club and national level.

There needs to be nationalism in football, especially for a minnow like Canada to improve which means the clubs have to focus on developing players that will feed the NT.

I understand many people are Canadian by passport and therefore do not understand the bond many have with this great country, but as a nationalist and pure Canadian, its sort of ridiculous to utilize both national and club football resources for purely selfish motivations without reprocussions from the club, u- clubs and supporters.

Very well said.

deltox
12-23-2010, 06:53 PM
so How do you feel about young CDN players who were/are in Academies of clubs overseas?


is that wrong?

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 06:54 PM
So should Barca have passed on Messi? Because by that argument, he's wasting Spanish resources.

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 06:55 PM
so How do you feel about young CDN players who were/are in Academies of clubs overseas?


is that wrong?

haha... look at your avatar. Notice the line between the two symbols? How fitting.

deltox
12-23-2010, 06:59 PM
:rolleyes:^ nice answer

deltox
12-23-2010, 07:01 PM
David Edgar joined Newcastle United academy at 14.

would we really want CDN talent to not have access to these clubs?

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 07:03 PM
Hey man I agree with you, I just thought it was a funny coincidence.

TFCRegina
12-23-2010, 07:06 PM
So should Barca have passed on Messi? Because by that argument, he's wasting Spanish resources.

I assume this is addressed to me?

No, he's not. He's utilizing FCB's resources. Spanish resources would be Spanish call ups, and Spanish youth team participation in camps, games, etc.

I didn't say Morgan shouldn't be part of the club program.

I'm saying I'd be pissed because he wasted our youth program resources for the CMNT as Morgan has participated in the National Youth programs.

deltox
12-23-2010, 07:07 PM
look...ideally, our academy would be awesome...and it could house only CDN players. and the national team would be built up from the all the CDN pro team academies

thats just not gonna happen. it would be a disaster for the national team if all clubs only allowed players from their own countries to join their academies

MartinUtd
12-23-2010, 07:19 PM
I assume this is addressed to me?

No, he's not. He's utilizing FCB's resources. Spanish resources would be Spanish call ups, and Spanish youth team participation in camps, games, etc.

I didn't say Morgan shouldn't be part of the club program.

I'm saying I'd be pissed because he wasted our youth program resources for the CMNT as Morgan has participated in the National Youth programs.


Directed at J & Super. The point made earlier was that club academy's should be forwarding the national agenda. Perhaps my Messi comparison is not completely apt.

I'm for Morgan being in TFCA but I don't think he should be training with any Canadian teams if his intentions are to play for Jamaica.

razor787
12-23-2010, 07:26 PM
Comparing the TFC Academy to the Academy of huge clubs, or even clubs with national teams that are settled, doesnt make sense. The Canadian nats need help. Without academys our National team will stay as complete shit.

Developing players for the National team is something that should be on the academys minds. If a player isnt going to commit to the 2 teams the academy is providing for, I dont want the academy commiting to them.

I know that if Ashtone ever plays on the full team, I will show him no respect. He will not be welcome on the team, and there isnt any point in keeping someone like him on the team, if there are loads of fans that wont support or respect him.

Flipityflu
12-23-2010, 07:35 PM
i'd just drop him from the national program. i don't think his involvement with TFC should be affected though...assuming he is decent, which should be the only thing that matters to us really. i think some people confuse TFC as Canada for some reason.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-23-2010, 07:52 PM
No, it's not rhetorical. How do they do this? They haven't restricted the academy to only players only eligible for the Canadian team. Do they just hope the players in the academy will select Canada even though they qualify for other countries as well?

It's like when they said they felt it was important to develop Canadian coaches. Important to whom? Did they poll season ticket holders? Was it a requirement to get a lease at the national soccer stadium?


none of those things, its something they decided with mont and van several years back with the CSA as the csa cant do its job right

Ossington Mental Youth
12-23-2010, 07:54 PM
for the record, theres nothing wrong with canadians playing in in academys for clubs in other countries, its great in fact however noone should be surprised when they decide to play for that country (de guzman cough cough) because hte CSA is lacking

Beach_Red
12-23-2010, 08:15 PM
none of those things, its something they decided with mont and van several years back with the CSA as the csa cant do its job right

Okay, I was just wondering if they set any of their own quotas, the way MLS sets domestic quotas or the way the TV and radio industries in Canada quotas.

I don't like to be so cynical but after years of following these teams it's starting to come very naturally. So I wonder how sincere they are about anything they say and how much is just smoke?

ag futbol
12-23-2010, 09:31 PM
CSA can send him letter that says Dear Ashton: congratulations for choosing Jamaica. Here's your bill for all resources you used. Best of luck.

He can do whatever he wants, but i have to draw the line at using one countries resources to further your cause to do something else.

That being said, I have no problem with him playing for TFC.

J .
12-23-2010, 10:12 PM
I dont have a problem with a Canadian or anyone overseas in an Academy that isnt going to be one of three feeders for the national team or in a program thats stated goal is to develop kids that could be used by Canada.

Furthermore, the more we can develop local players, the less of a draw it will be over time for our players to head overseas at a younger age.

Most other footballing nations have their youth programs already set up, hence why Canada is so far behind. As a nation we need to look out for ourselves. The more Canadians that improve, the better it is for TFC to draw on that talent to train and sell, thus giving the club more cash.

In terms of Messi or the storied Barca program, I think that is comparing pineapple and apple. Just because apple is involved after the pine, doesnt mean we are talking the same situation.

prizby
12-23-2010, 10:36 PM
this article was already brought up a month ago

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25551

Dunkers
12-24-2010, 03:26 AM
this is ridiculus! of course he should be able to play for both TFCA and TFC.

Its great that the TFCA has decided to play a leading role in developing Canadian Talent, but that doesnt mean it should develop exclusivly Canadian talent.

The bottom line is talent, if the kid has it, let him play. Sure if 2 kids were trialing and were of equal value to TFC, id much rather perfer the canadian kid to get the playing time, but I dont think morgan is a fringe player on the team. Not to metion that that increasing the talent level in the academy will mean that the Canadian kids that are training, will be doing so in a more competive enviroment.

Wull
12-24-2010, 07:51 AM
Canada isn't Toronto FC's problem. The CSA being shit isn't Toronto FC's problem. Toronto FC's academy is there solely for the benefit of this club. If the CSA wants to part fund it, that would be a little different.

That being said, if anyone at the game wants to boo the fuck out of him, I won't have a problem with it. I'll boo the fuck out of aiden mcgeady if the little turncoat ever shows his face when I'm at a game so Morgan will have to live with the consequences of his decisions if he does decide to turn his back on Canada.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-24-2010, 08:00 AM
CSA can send him letter that says Dear Ashton: congratulations for choosing Jamaica. Here's your bill for all resources you used. Best of luck.

He can do whatever he wants, but i have to draw the line at using one countries resources to further your cause to do something else.

That being said, I have no problem with him playing for TFC.

agreed, especially if you happen to be born in that country.
Once again if its a mandate it must be enforced, if its not, drop the mandate all together.

Oldtimer
12-24-2010, 08:12 AM
The CSA was behind the FIFA youth cup in Canada and BMO field.

Despite their incompetence, we only have D1 pro football here because of the CSA.
It's the CSA that sanctions TFC to play in MLS.

Does TFC owe it to Canada to develop players for the CMNT? You bet it does.

Wull
12-24-2010, 09:33 AM
The CSA was behind the FIFA youth cup in Canada and BMO field.

Despite their incompetence, we only have D1 pro football here because of the CSA.
It's the CSA that sanctions TFC to play in MLS.

Does TFC owe it to Canada to develop players for the CMNT? You bet it does.


Why? TFC is here to develop TFC. If the CSA wants to start investing in the club then fine. Until then we don't owe them anything just like it's not up to the Raptors to develop local talent in the same way.

Should we send players out into the local communities to do coaching sessions etc.? Yes, but our in-house development should be what's best for the club and the club only.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-24-2010, 09:41 AM
then we need to do away with the mandate and trek on

Macksam
12-24-2010, 11:21 AM
Not really. TFCA and u-Canada are two completely separate entities. If we want to be forever saddled with a team of Pozniak's and Lombardo's then we'll need to at least consider training internationals.
This has nothing to do that that. Morgan was born and raised here. You understand?


Who give a rats ass what national team he wants to play for. Last time I checked TFC was a football club. It's irrelevant where the kid comes from, plays in the future, etc. What matters is whether he's the best available to play for the Academy. And since he's a damn good prospect, it would be ridicolous and silly to rule the guy out because of his country of choice. How in the world do people ever expect to be competitive when we are going to limit ourselves to drawing from Canadian talent only. England, French and Spanish clubs don't do that and for fucks sakes they have way better talent then we do to draw from.

STFU chuco. How did I know you were going to rear your ugly head in here. If a guy who is born and raised in Canada chooses to play for Jamaica, how much loyalty do you think he's going to have for TFC? Also, the comparisons you make with England, French and Spanish clubs are irrelavent. If MLS was a top league, maybe. However, you should compare the league to feeder leagues Argentina and Brazil, who mostly develop domestic talent.


So should Barca have passed on Messi? Because by that argument, he's wasting Spanish resources.

This arguement is not valid. If Messi was born and raised in Spain, yes. I wouldn't have a problem if Morgan was born and raised in jamaica and ended up playing for them like OBW. However, that's not the case.


Why? TFC is here to develop TFC. If the CSA wants to start investing in the club then fine. Until then we don't owe them anything just like it's not up to the Raptors to develop local talent in the same way.

Should we send players out into the local communities to do coaching sessions etc.? Yes, but our in-house development should be what's best for the club and the club only.

Sure, but TFC constantly reinforces this strange idea of developing Canadian talent on the academy portion of their website.

http://www.torontofc.ca/academy

MartinUtd
12-24-2010, 11:43 AM
Yes I understand that a lot of you want to cut your nose to spite your face.

There's a difference between loyalty to a club and loyalty to a country. The former is usually locked down with contractual obligations. Sometimes it doesnt work out like that kid that left Feyenoord for Chelsea recently. Despite all this doomsday talk TFCA is in fact developing Canadians. Just because the CSA is trying to solely outsource its training duties doesn't mean you should buy the shit their selling. We're going to have to chalk this up to agree to disagree because we're all going in circles here.

Jamaicanadian
12-24-2010, 12:03 PM
If a guy who is born and raised in Canada chooses to play for Jamaica, how much loyalty do you think he's going to have for TFC?

This has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this board......

Jamaicanadian
12-24-2010, 12:04 PM
Easily.......

Jamaicanadian
12-24-2010, 12:05 PM
There are a lot of dumb statements in this thread on a whole...But that one takes the cake...
Back to your not so well thought out arguments hahahahahahahaha

trane
12-24-2010, 12:09 PM
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20101128/sports/sports11.html

TFC Academy player Astone Morgan in the piece above demonstrates his disloyalty to Canada while the TFCA has stated in the past it is developing players with the intent they will play for Canada.

With Morgan demonstrating he is favouring Jamaica over Canada, despite playing for the u-Canadian teams and the TFCA, should he be allowed to continue to develop in Canada while he cheers for and would play for Jamaica?


He says he is considering his options. He has ties to both countries and this is an article with a Jamiacan newspaper. What do you expect him to say? No fucking way, no way I am playing for Jamaica. If he is a good player I hope he plays for TFC and Canada. But we will see.

Milky
12-24-2010, 01:55 PM
I know this is a bit harsh, but I thought that the TFC Academy program was specifically geared towards creating Canadian internationals. If Morgan decides to represent Jamaica, then we should wish him all the best and then trade him to a Jamaican club/Academy.

If I am wrong about the TFC Academy initiative, however, then I guess it's ok. But it all depends on whether we are supposed to be grooming TFC players or if we are supposed to be grooming TFC and Canadian players.

J .
12-24-2010, 02:02 PM
He says he is considering his options. He has ties to both countries and this is an article with a Jamiacan newspaper. What do you expect him to say? No fucking way, no way I am playing for Jamaica. If he is a good player I hope he plays for TFC and Canada. But we will see.

Yes, he could have said something like I love Jamaica and embrace its culture but I was born and raised in Canada, its where I learned my football trade and its where I've been given my life opportunities. He's barely been in Jamaica.

I dont see how we are cutting our nose off to spite our face. We need to focus on developing local players to further local interest which leads to more investment into the game. Canadians need to be selfish and focused on developing our own talent, or the talent gap between the other nations in CONCACAF and Canada will only continue to grow.

Ultimately, he has already been invested in and they can only hope he chooses to sign with Canada, but he will hear it from people, just like Teal did.

Macksam
12-24-2010, 02:23 PM
This has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this board......
How so?


I dont see how we are cutting our nose off to spite our face. We need to focus on developing local players to further local interest which leads to more investment into the game. Canadians need to be selfish and focused on developing our own talent, or the talent gap between the other nations in CONCACAF and Canada will only continue to grow.

.
That's just man u being pretentious.

Anyhow, he'll play for jamaica if he's not good enough for Canada.

zeelaw
12-24-2010, 11:18 PM
How could people actually say Club over Country? I love TFC and all but a trip to Brazil, Russia or Qatar will be the best memory of my life....

razor787
12-27-2010, 07:06 AM
I dont think anyone would put club over country in Hockey. People need to start treating our soccer national team like they do hockey. Not likely at all to happen in the next 50 years (if ever) but one can dream...

MartinUtd
12-27-2010, 09:37 PM
How so?

That's just man u being pretentious.

Anyhow, he'll play for jamaica if he's not good enough for Canada.

haha.. just realized I must be "man u"

nice try.

Read the first 20 pages of Soccernomics and you'll see your silly little isolationist theories debunked.

Macksam
12-27-2010, 09:56 PM
haha.. just realized I must be "man u"

nice try.

Read the first 20 pages of Soccernomics and you'll see your silly little isolationist theories debunked.

What isolationist theories are you referring to?

I have made it pretty clear that if Morgan was born and raised in Jamaica and apart of our academy, I would be all for him choosing Jamaica.

Brooker
12-28-2010, 12:21 AM
Why? TFC is here to develop TFC.

That's not the only reason they're here. They've said as much countless times.

prizby
12-28-2010, 12:49 AM
why is this being discussed still...this was put up a month ago and some of the Voyageurs have talked with Astone's parents and he is committed to Canada, this is one article taking things out of context

Brooker
12-28-2010, 12:57 AM
why is this being discussed still...this was put up a month ago and some of the Voyageurs have talked with Astone's parents and he is committed to Canada, this is one article taking things out of context

do you have a link where Ashton says he is committed to Canada and not even considering ever playing for Jamaica? That would help!

DangerRed
12-28-2010, 01:50 AM
Club before country.

I don't give a shit where he wants to play internationally. If you think in the next 20 years we'll have a viable MNT, you should check your head -- and you have the CSA to thank for that.

Macksam
12-28-2010, 10:16 AM
Club before country.

I don't give a shit where he wants to play internationally. If you think in the next 20 years we'll have a viable MNT, you should check your head -- and you have the CSA to thank for that.
We'll see an improvement in the next ten years, nevermind the next 20 years.

MartinUtd
12-28-2010, 02:53 PM
What isolationist theories are you referring to?

I have made it pretty clear that if Morgan was born and raised in Jamaica and apart of our academy, I would be all for him choosing Jamaica.

Well what are you advocating then? You seem to be arguing against those who said TFCA should be open to internationals and not an exclusive to Canadian prospects.

My point (and maybe I shouldn't have specifically directed this at you, but you called me pretentious for laying out a simple metaphor) is that you'll never get the most out of your academy if you turn away the best players for nationalistic reasons. That's not just in the interests of just TFC but the CSA as well. A good looking prospect will never reach his potential unless he's being challenged by the best players available regardless of national team ambitions.

Macksam
12-28-2010, 10:51 PM
Well what are you advocating then? You seem to be arguing against those who said TFCA should be open to internationals and not an exclusive to Canadian prospects.

My point (and maybe I shouldn't have specifically directed this at you, but you called me pretentious for laying out a simple metaphor) is that you'll never get the most out of your academy if you turn away the best players for nationalistic reasons. That's not just in the interests of just TFC but the CSA as well. A good looking prospect will never reach his potential unless he's being challenged by the best players available regardless of national team ambitions.
I just have a problem with someone who is born here, raised here, and plays professionally here suiting up for his dad's country.

Dunkers
12-29-2010, 02:15 AM
I just have a problem with someone who is born here, raised here, and plays professionally here suiting up for his dad's country.

and i have a problem with tfc not making the playoffs in 4 years...not saying astone would fix this, but turning away talaent because of international choices doesnt help

zeelaw
12-29-2010, 09:54 AM
I know this is a bit harsh, but I thought that the TFC Academy program was specifically geared towards creating Canadian internationals. If Morgan decides to represent Jamaica, then we should wish him all the best and then trade him to a Jamaican club/Academy.

Probably wouldn't go... his family is here I think

lol... f this stuff:picard:

MartinUtd
12-29-2010, 10:38 AM
I just have a problem with someone who is born here, raised here, and plays professionally here suiting up for his dad's country.

That's fine as a fan but as a professional football club I'd expect them to act a little more... professional.

This doesn't surprise me though. Growing up I noticed a lot of people would associate themselves with their families heritage despite never living in (or sometimes even visiting) said country. If a player grows up with that mentality its no wonder he looks to greener pastures.

J .
12-29-2010, 11:42 AM
I just have a problem with someone who is born here, raised here, and plays professionally here suiting up for his dad's country.


+1
:canada:

Macksam
12-29-2010, 02:55 PM
That's fine as a fan but as a professional football club I'd expect them to act a little more... professional.

This doesn't surprise me though. Growing up I noticed a lot of people would associate themselves with their families heritage despite never living in (or sometimes even visiting) said country. If a player grows up with that mentality its no wonder he looks to greener pastures.
To advance one's career, it could help like it did with whore. You can never be enitrely sure, but I think him playing for England helped with the Man U transfer.

trane
12-30-2010, 06:14 AM
I just have a problem with someone who is born here, raised here, and plays professionally here suiting up for his dad's country.

Me too. BUT this has not happened in this case yet, and while I believe in country over club this does not mean that it should be the only basis for TFC signing players.

Pachuco
01-03-2011, 08:07 PM
This has nothing to do that that. Morgan was born and raised here. You understand?



STFU chuco. How did I know you were going to rear your ugly head in here. If a guy who is born and raised in Canada chooses to play for Jamaica, how much loyalty do you think he's going to have for TFC? Also, the comparisons you make with England, French and Spanish clubs are irrelavent. If MLS was a top league, maybe. However, you should compare the league to feeder leagues Argentina and Brazil, who mostly develop domestic talent.



Get a fucking life dude. Who the fuck tells someone to shit the fuck up over an internet forum? childish. Go back to your voyager's board if you can't handle people caring more about TFC over your beloved CMNT.

Oh, and like you said, Argenina and Brazil develop MOSTLY domestic talent. No one is saying that isn't what Canada should be doing. But there will always be exceptions and it's retarted to think TFC should throw the exception away because he chose another country to play for. Particularly when he seems to be one of the most talented prospects on that squad.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with being upset about his decision to play for Jamaica (if it turns out that way) when it comes to the CMNT. However, you need to learn that TFC is not the CMNT and we'll never be succesfull with that mentality, atleast not in the short term. That's if you even are a TFC supporter, I suspect you just cruise this board to show us your love for the CMNT only because that's the only time I see your name pop up.

Pachuco
01-03-2011, 08:21 PM
How so?

That's just man u being pretentious.

Anyhow, he'll play for jamaica if he's not good enough for Canada.

Oh, and I have to address this because this is really funny. So you predict Morgan will pick Jamaica if he's not good enough for Canada. But yet you go on to talk about his disloyalty. Canada passes on him, and you are going to call him disloyal...wow.

Macksam
01-03-2011, 08:24 PM
Oh, and I have to address this because this is really funny. So you predict Morgan will pick Jamaica if he's not good enough for Canada. But yet you go on to talk about his disloyalty. Canada passes on him, and you are going to call him disloyal...wow.

I never once talked about his disloyalty. It was somewhat confirmed on the Voyageurs board that he will play for Canada long before this thread even started. When I talked about people playing for other countries, I was just referring to players in general. Since Morgan was the topic at hand, I used him as an example in a what if scenerio.

Try again Chuco. ;)

Pachuco
01-03-2011, 08:39 PM
I never once talked about his disloyalty. It was somewhat confirmed on the Voyageurs board that he will play for Canada long before this thread even started. When I talked about people playing for other countries, I was just referring to players in general. Since Morgan was the topic at hand, I used him as an example in a what if scenerio.

Try again Chuco. ;)

Oh I get it. So you've made up a hypothetical person who happens to play for the TFC Academy, who's dad is Jamaican, who was born and raised here, who isn't Morgan. Just your desire to argue then. At the end of the day, this poll was quesitoning whether Morgan should be allowed to play for TFC no? If you knew he was going to play for Canada at the time of your posting, maybe you shoul've just addressed that instead of getting into your hypothetical arguments.

TFCRegina
01-03-2011, 08:41 PM
Oh I get it. So you've made up a hypothetical person who happens to play for the TFC Academy, who's dad is Jamaican, who was born and raised here, who isn't Morgan. Just your desire to argue then. At the end of the day, this poll was quesitoning whether Morgan should be allowed to play for TFC no? If you knew he was going to play for Canada at the time of your posting, maybe you shoul've just addressed that instead of getting into your hypothetical arguments.

I addressed it earlier, Pachuco, and everyone continued to press the panic button.

Pachuco
01-03-2011, 08:45 PM
I addressed it earlier, Pachuco, and everyone continued to press the panic button.

Yeap, and when I noticed that is when I stopped looking in this thread. I just realized today that Macksam came in way after to argue his hypothetical/pretend player with me.

Anyways I'm done with this thread, it's irrelevant at this point and talking to Macksam about TFC is useless.

Macksam
01-03-2011, 09:41 PM
Yeap, and when I noticed that is when I stopped looking in this thread. I just realized today that Macksam came in way after to argue his hypothetical/pretend player with me.

Anyways I'm done with this thread, it's irrelevant at this point and talking to Macksam about TFC is useless.
I don't think that's the case at all. We can talk about a lot of things. How about what the implications of the rumoured signing of Aaron Winters are for the future of TFC's youth development? That seems like something you and I could go on about for a little while.

Stouffville_RPB
01-12-2011, 08:12 AM
I voted no only because they sign letters of intent to play for Canada when they join the TFC Academy. If he didn't sign one then I would change my vote to yes as long as he improves the roster.

As a player I think that he definitely showed potential to be a pro last season with the Academy and in his 1 match with the first team. However he broke his word and should suffer the consequences.