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giambac
06-28-2008, 11:18 PM
Okay all you Carver Lovers

It's almost half way thru the season and this is what we know about TFC

1) They definetly can't win (or for that matter even tie) on the road
2) this team is just a 500 team. They win/tie at home and they always lose on the road

3) It will come down to perhaps the last 1 or 2 games of the season before we know if the team will make it to the playoffs. they will eithe rmake it or miss out by 1 or 2 points

4) Carver's bad decison'say be the reason TFC doesn't qualify for the playoffs.

Look at the standings.This team is just 2 points out of second last place in the east and NY Red Bulls have a game in hand. TFC is just 5 points out of last place and KC has a game in hand.

All the Carver lovers were making excuses for the coach last week when he left 2 points on the table by not using his regular players. they were 2 easy points against KC that he let get away. Now with the loss to New Engalnd that means the team has 1 point in the last 2 games. Their next regualr season game is on the road on July 12th vs Chicago. There is no reason to believe they will win on the road and if both New York and KC win their games in hand this team can be at the bottom of the standings by July 12th


DO YOU GUYS STILL LOVE CARVER. What's with not using Sutton tonight?
Whats with not using the regulars last week? As I have been saying, his bad decisons may end up costing this team......

Cambridge_Red
06-28-2008, 11:19 PM
Shoulda woulda coulda, lets move on to the next game and learn from the mistakes.

werewolf
06-28-2008, 11:20 PM
lets fire Carver and bring back Mo!!!



....

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-28-2008, 11:23 PM
Okay all you Carver Lovers

It's almost half way thru the season and this is what we know about TFC

1) They definetly can't win (or for that matter even tie) on the road
2) this team is just a 500 team. They win/tie at home and they always lose on the road

3) It will come down to perhaps the last 1 or 2 games of the season before we know if the team will make it to the playoffs. they will eithe rmake it or miss out by 1 or 2 points

4) Carver's bad decison'say be the reason TFC doesn't qualify for the playoffs.

Look at the standings.This team is just 2 points out of second last place in the east and NY Red Bulls have a game in hand. TFC is just 5 points out of last place and KC has a game in hand.

All the Carver lovers were making excuses for the coach last week when he left 2 points on the table by not using his regular players. they were 2 easy points against KC that he let get away. Now with the loss to New Engalnd that means the team has 1 point in the last 2 games. Their next regualr season game is on the road on July 12th vs Chicago. There is no reason to believe they will win on the road and if both New York and KC win their games in hand this team can be at the bottom of the standings by July 12th


DO YOU GUYS STILL LOVE CARVER. What's with not using Sutton tonight?
Whats with not using the regulars last week? As I have been saying, his bad decisons may end up costing this team......


1) the playoffs don't really matter in the long run, it;'s building a quality team, if that means missing the playoffs this year so be it, look at the big picture, if we don't win on the road the playoffs will end quick anyways.

2) Sutton is no prize either he has major problem grabbing and holding on to the ball, yes he has the experience but Edwards is out future.

3) a .500 season would be fine by me after last year..it means progress.

4) playoffs.:hump:

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:24 PM
Shoulda woulda coulda, lets move on to the next game and learn from the mistakes.

That's the problem. This team can't move on and learn from their mistakes. They haven't shown they can. Their next game is July 12th on the road against a good Chicago team. there is no reason to believe this team will win on the road. So it is areal possibilty that they may be in last place after that game.

THAT"S WHY I WAS SAYING LAST WEEKS GAME VS KC WAS CRITICAL. IT WAS AN EASY 3 POINTS THAT CARVER BLEW IN HIS PLAYER SELECTIONS. IT WILL END UP COSTING THIS TEAM. BELIEVE ME.

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:28 PM
1) the playoffs don't really matter in the long run, it;'s building a quality team, if that means missing the playoffs this year so be it, look at the big picture, if we don't win on the road the playoffs will end quick anyways.

2) Sutton is no prize either he has major problem grabbing and holding on to the ball, yes he has the experience but Edwards is out future.

3) a .500 season would be fine by me after last year..it means progress.

4) playoffs.:hump:

That's the problem with most Toronto fan supporters. Happy/content with being average " It doesn't matter to me if they don't make the playoff" What kind of answer is that? They have the players to make the playoffs and they should make the plyaoffs. Mo brought in the players and it is up to Carver to use them. If they don't make the playoffs Carver has to go

adamdz
06-28-2008, 11:28 PM
Must be something in the bmo water, this away game shit streak boggles me (at least we are close sometimes).

Cambridge_Red
06-28-2008, 11:28 PM
That's the problem. This team can't move on and learn from their mistakes. They haven't shown they can. Their next game is July 12th on the road against a good Chicago team. there is no reason to believe this team will win on the road. So it is areal possibilty that they may be in last place after that game.

THAT"S WHY I WAS SAYING LAST WEEKS GAME VS KC WAS CRITICAL. IT WAS AN EASY 3 POINTS THAT CARVER BLEW IN HIS PLAYER SELECTIONS. IT WILL END UP COSTING THIS TEAM. BELIEVE ME.

GET OVER IT.:taz:

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:30 PM
lets fire Carver and bring back Mo!!!



....


Not abad idea. I'm for it.

The Italian national team just fired their coach Donadoni for not making the Semi finals in the Euro's. They brought back their WC coach Lippi.

Donadoni made poor choices and paid with his job. Carver is making poor choices and if the team doesn't qualfy for the playoffs he has to be accountable.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-28-2008, 11:31 PM
That's the problem with most Toronto fan supporters. Happy/content with being average " It doesn't matter to me if they don't make the playoff" What kind of answer is that? They have the players to make the playoffs and they should make the plyaoffs. Mo brought in the players and it is up to Carver to use them. If they don't make the playoffs Carver has to go


How many teams in pro sports make the playoffs in year 2 of operation...NIL...to expect otherwise is just plain nuts. Average is way better then last year when we were terrible....progress. Carver is
to be signed to a long term deal he's the best Manager/coach in TO sports right now....

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:32 PM
Must be something in the bmo water, this away game shit streak boggles me (at least we are close sometimes).

Close sometimes. Wow that makes me feel better.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-28-2008, 11:32 PM
Not abad idea. I'm for it.

The Italian national team just fired their coach Donadoni for not making the Semi finals in the Euro's. They brought back their WC coach Lippi.

Donadoni made poor choices and paid with his job. Carver is making poor choices and if the team doesn't qualfy for the playoffs he has to be accountable.


just because iTaly fired one idiot and brought in another one, TFC should do the same...get real.

noochie
06-28-2008, 11:32 PM
Okay all you Carver Lovers

It's almost half way thru the season and this is what we know about TFC

1) They definetly can't win (or for that matter even tie) on the road
2) this team is just a 500 team. They win/tie at home and they always lose on the road

3) It will come down to perhaps the last 1 or 2 games of the season before we know if the team will make it to the playoffs. they will eithe rmake it or miss out by 1 or 2 points

4) Carver's bad decison'say be the reason TFC doesn't qualify for the playoffs.

Look at the standings.This team is just 2 points out of second last place in the east and NY Red Bulls have a game in hand. TFC is just 5 points out of last place and KC has a game in hand.

All the Carver lovers were making excuses for the coach last week when he left 2 points on the table by not using his regular players. they were 2 easy points against KC that he let get away. Now with the loss to New Engalnd that means the team has 1 point in the last 2 games. Their next regualr season game is on the road on July 12th vs Chicago. There is no reason to believe they will win on the road and if both New York and KC win their games in hand this team can be at the bottom of the standings by July 12th


DO YOU GUYS STILL LOVE CARVER. What's with not using Sutton tonight?
Whats with not using the regulars last week? As I have been saying, his bad decisons may end up costing this team......

way to split hairs... you know the team has not posted a win in 8 of 14 games... why is the KC draw so significant? this is getting old.

werewolf
06-28-2008, 11:33 PM
Not abad idea. I'm for it.

The Italian national team just fired their coach Donadoni for not making the Semi finals in the Euro's. They brought back their WC coach Lippi.




So replace the coach with 6 wins in 14 games, with the coach that has 6 wins in 30 games.....?

adamdz
06-28-2008, 11:34 PM
Close sometimes. Wow that makes me feel better.

I'm glad I could help your dilemma (please don't cut yourself)

Cambridge_Red
06-28-2008, 11:34 PM
For anyone who has lost focus.........

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/standings/index.jsp?team=t280

We still have alot of games to play stop pissing me off with this negative talk.

colman1860
06-28-2008, 11:35 PM
Youre not using a lot of logic, giambac. Were we some sort of indestructable force on the road under Mo? We just lost a very close game on the road to the first place team in the entire league. Why the fuck does the shit have to hit the fan after every loss on this board? Its going to drive me to depression one day. Its always the same people too...

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:35 PM
How many teams in pro sports make the playoffs in year 2 of operation...NIL...to expect otherwise is just plain nuts. Average is way better then last year when we were terrible....progress. Carver is
to be signed to a long term deal he's the best Manager/coach in TO sports right now....

WOW..... That's really saying alot:rolleyes:

What's with the buulshit that it's only their 2nd season. Mo brought in plyers , Guevera, RR, Robert, Teliby etc. The players are their to make the playoffs. The coach can't be costing us points becasue of his ego and bad decisons. That's what Carver has been doing by what seems like punishing his international players.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-28-2008, 11:38 PM
WOW..... That's really saying alot:rolleyes:

What's with the buulshit that it's only their 2nd season. Mo brought in plyers , Guevera, RR, Robert, Teliby etc. The players are their to make the playoffs. The coach can't be costing us points becasue of his ego and bad decisons. That's what Carver has been doing by what seems like punishing his international players.


the coach didnt cost us points toight Jim brennan did..focus your blame on him for not making an effort after that ball hit the post.:mad: the team is loking for a major improvement on last year, and to date they are ahead of the game, we have as many wins now as we did all of last year....thanks to carver.

werewolf
06-28-2008, 11:38 PM
What's with the buulshit that it's only their 2nd season. Mo brought in plyers , Guevera, RR, Robert, Teliby etc. The players are their to make the playoffs. The coach can't be costing us points becasue of his ego and bad decisons. That's what Carver has been doing by what seems like punishing his international players.

How is he punishing them? By giving them a rest? Or maybe not throwing them back into a whole different system and team after a couple weeks away.

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:39 PM
Youre not using a lot of logic, giambac. Were we some sort of indestructable force on the road under Mo? We just lost a very close game on the road to the first place team in the entire league. Why the fuck does the shit have to hit the fan after every loss on this board? Its going to drive me to depression one day. Its always the same people too...


Because as you said yourself it was a tough game on the road against a top team in the league. Carver knew this last week and he should of guaranteed the easy 3 points last weeek at home.

Cambridge_Red
06-28-2008, 11:39 PM
FFS I seriously hope none of these "diehards" are coming to Chicago.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-28-2008, 11:42 PM
Because as you said yourself it was a tough game on the road against a top team in the league. Carver knew this last week and he should of guaranteed the easy 3 points last weeek at home.


Kansas City is never an easy game....they have talent as well and are struggling. But they played a tight defensive game at BMO is that what
you want TFC to do play defensive?

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:43 PM
the coach didnt cost us points toight Jim brennan did..focus your blame on him for not making an effort after that ball hit the post.:mad: the team is loking for a major improvement on last year, and to date they are ahead of the game, we have as many wins now as we did all of last year....thanks to carver.

I didn't say he cost uds the points tonight.

I like everyone esle knew it was going to be atough game tonight.

I said Carver cost us the points last week when evryon eknew they were easy.

People say why am I harping on those points. Because look at the the standings. Do your own projections. How close will the teams be at the end of the season? Will those points be important?

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-28-2008, 11:44 PM
I didn't say he cost uds the points tonight.

I like everyone esle knew it was going to be atough game tonight.

I said Carver cost us the points last week when evryon eknew they were easy.

People say why am I harping on those points. Because look at the the standings. Do your own projections. How close will the teams be at the end of the season? Will those points be important?


what easy games....what are you smoking dude!!

colman1860
06-28-2008, 11:45 PM
Because as you said yourself it was a tough game on the road against a top team in the league. Carver knew this last week and he should of guaranteed the easy 3 points last weeek at home.

You still havent explained why Mo should be the coach. Or how Carver cost us the game today...Edwards didnt make any mistakes that led to goals. If Jarrod Smith was in any way a capable striker we would have had ourselves a point. If Jimmy played the way he usually does, we would have had 3. None of this is Carvers fault. Screw the game last week, lets move on. Its a long season. Anyway, enough discussing. Im off to open a thread about fucking Velez being a stiff and costing us a penalty in LA. [/sarcasm]

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:46 PM
Kansas City is never an easy game....they have talent as well and are struggling. But they played a tight defensive game at BMO is that what
you want TFC to do play defensive?


No i wantd them to start Guevera, play Edu, etc and they should have attacked and gone for the win at home.

colman1860
06-28-2008, 11:47 PM
You still havent explained why Mo should be the coach. Or how Carver cost us the game today...Edwards didnt make any mistakes that led to goals. If Jarrod Smith was in any way a capable striker we would have had ourselves a point. If Jimmy played the way he usually does, we would have had 3. None of this is Carvers fault. Screw the game last week, lets move on. Its a long season. Anyway, enough discussing. Im off to open a thread about fucking Velez being a stiff and costing us a penalty in LA. [/sarcasm]

I may have put words in your mouth about Carver costing us today. I take that part back. But seriously, stop bitching about past games.

ua-kozak_TFC
06-28-2008, 11:47 PM
1) the playoffs don't really matter in the long run, it;'s building a quality team, if that means missing the playoffs this year so be it, look at the big picture, if we don't win on the road the playoffs will end quick anyways.

2) Sutton is no prize either he has major problem grabbing and holding on to the ball, yes he has the experience but Edwards is out future.

3) a .500 season would be fine by me after last year..it means progress.

4) playoffs.:hump:
some of you guys just amuse me with your blindness... Honestly you would probably blame the water boy for TFC's bad result than blaming Carver.

The fact of the matter is that Sutton was FENOMENAL for us thus far in the season... many times he saved our asses and games we should have lost we won ex: LA away game (3-2 win). And many tmes if it wasn;t for him we would have lost 8-0. He's been many times our star players i would even say the most consistent player on the field.

The fact that he may have the ocassional trouble... but what goaltender doesnt? He's a great shot blocker and that's why he has a problem with rebounds every great shot blocker have trouble with rebounds the best example Kahn... But Sutton makes more great saves than he does when he ocasional gives the little spill. Plus his presence in the box and air game is 10 points.... i don;t think a he has allowed a header yet...

On the other hand... you have Edwards a rookie who really hasn;t been contested most of the shot he has received were straight at him... something that i could have saved.
Those who think that Edwards is a better goaltender than Sutton are OUT of their mind...

Now to answer your point:

1) that is loser talk... Evryone know that players matter and that's the reason everyone wants to win in order to make the play offs.. Second as you said what matters is building a team... You are totally right but I think carver is creating just a mess with a roster full of insecure players rather than a strong 11 players with confident subs who come inbreak the 11 if the play well enough... and not because they were part of a team that brought a result although they may have done jack shit.

2) If edwards is our future then he should be kept that way... in the FUTURE... not NOW when there is a better player available..

3) that is loser talk #2. Ask any fans of a great team in the world like Barcelona, Real , man U etc.. If they had that attitude they would ahve never achieved greatness...

werewolf
06-28-2008, 11:48 PM
Did anyone see that penalty Marco Reda cost us in LA in October!?! WTF!?!?!?

colman1860
06-28-2008, 11:48 PM
No i wantd them to start Guevera, play Edu, etc and they should have attacked and gone for the win at home.

tbh, based on performance throughout the year, Edu is finding himself on shaky ground. He has been atrocious, his goals today (dunno if he did score today or whether it was an own goal) and in DC notwithstanding. His passing is horrendous.

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:49 PM
FFS I seriously hope none of these "diehards" are coming to Chicago.

Coming to Chicago?

They look crappy enough on tv during their road games. why would I want to see them live?:cool:

James Oliphant
06-28-2008, 11:51 PM
You still havent explained why Mo should be the coach. Or how Carver cost us the game today.

You're wasting your time, colman. giambac only answers the questions he feels like answering...i.e. the ones which don't force him to think outside of superlatives and generalizations. The ones he can create a flip remark for and make it LOOK LIKE he's answered the person.

colman1860
06-28-2008, 11:51 PM
Did anyone see that penalty Marco Reda cost us in LA in October!?! WTF!?!?!?
fucking twat. lets fucking trade him.

I propose the creation of Archived Threads Day!

colman1860
06-28-2008, 11:53 PM
Coming to Chicago?

They look crappy enough on tv during their road games. why would I want to see them live?:cool:

To borrow a fellow RPB's signature, FUCK OFF

Cambridge_Red
06-28-2008, 11:54 PM
Coming to Chicago?

They look crappy enough on tv during their road games. why would I want to see them live?:cool:

Thanks I'm glad you just proved my point. Thank god you're not coming :)

giambac
06-28-2008, 11:57 PM
some of you guys just amuse me with your blindness... Honestly you would probably blame the water boy for TFC's bad result than blaming Carver.

The fact of the matter is that Sutton was FENOMENAL for us thus far in the season... many times he saved our asses and games we should have lost we won ex: LA away game (3-2 win). And many tmes if it wasn;t for him we would have lost 8-0. He's been many times our star players i would even say the most consistent player on the field.

The fact that he may have the ocassional trouble... but what goaltender doesnt? He's a great shot blocker and that's why he has a problem with rebounds every great shot blocker have trouble with rebounds the best example Kahn... But Sutton makes more great saves than he does when he ocasional gives the little spill. Plus his presence in the box and air game is 10 points.... i don;t think a he has allowed a header yet...

On the other hand... you have Edwards a rookie who really hasn;t been contested most of the shot he has received were straight at him... something that i could have saved.
Those who think that Edwards is a better goaltender than Sutton are OUT of their mind...

Now to answer your point:

1) that is loser talk... Evryone know that players matter and that's the reason everyone wants to win in order to make the play offs.. Second as you said what matters is building a team... You are totally right but I think carver is creating just a mess with a roster full of insecure players rather than a strong 11 players with confident subs who come inbreak the 11 if the play well enough... and not because they were part of a team that brought a result although they may have done jack shit.

2) If edwards is our future then he should be kept that way... in the FUTURE... not NOW when there is a better player available..

3) that is loser talk #2. Ask any fans of a great team in the world like Barcelona, Real , man U etc.. If they had that attitude they would ahve never achieved greatness...



Thank you, Thankyou, Thank you,

at least i now have some comfort that not everyon eon this forum is a blind homer.

Bottom line is we all want TFC to win. But come on wake up and smell the coffee. There is nothing wrong in praising both players and coaches when they deserve it. But for Fuck sakes if they don't deserve it stop with the bullshit love affair

Half of the TFC supporters think Sutton has been our MVP this season. Some of you think he should be on the Allstar team and Mo hasn't used him in the past 2 weeks???????? Seems strange too me

James Oliphant
06-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Bottom line is we all want TFC to win. But come on wake up and smell the coffee. There is nothing wrong in praising both players and coaches when they deserve it. But for Fuck sakes if they don't deserve it stop with the bullshit love affair

The funny thing is...I don't see anyone praising players for tonight's performance. We all know it was sub-par.

What people are saying is (wait for it...it might blow your mind) IT'S NOT THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD!

werewolf
06-29-2008, 12:01 AM
Half of the TFC supporters think Sutton has been our MVP this season. Some of you think he should be on the Allstar team and Mo hasn't used him in the past 2 weeks???????? Seems strange too me


That explains everything

giambac
06-29-2008, 12:09 AM
On paper TFC is better and deeper than most teams in the league. Yet they can't win at all on the road and their record shows they are just a 500 team.

Somone is to blame, and it ain't me

jloome
06-29-2008, 12:24 AM
Yes it is. Your constant fucking whining makes baby jesus cry.

colman1860
06-29-2008, 12:28 AM
On paper TFC is better and deeper than most teams in the league. Yet they can't win at all on the road and their record shows they are just a 500 team.

Somone is to blame, and it ain't me

Road games:

Columbus, when our roster was shite. Loss
DC, when our roster was shite. Loss
LA, with improving roster (Robert + Guevara). Win
DC, with complete roster minus Robinson. Loss, thanks to your true love Greg Sutton.
Houston - Loss
NE - Narrow, possibly undeserved loss.

I dont think ive missed any. You state our roster is better than most teams' on paper. I agree. Though not better than DC, Houston, and NE. Our roster wasnt better than Columbus' on paper since we didnt yet have our three acquisitions. LA, we won. There is not a single road game where we underperformed. We performed exactly to our abilities in every single one. Id argue that we even exceeded expectations in LA, as our defense was still a shambles. The schedule is largely responsible for our problems on the road, not Carver's lineup.

colman1860
06-29-2008, 12:29 AM
Yes it is. Your constant fucking whining makes baby jesus cry.

"Jesus did grow up, you know"
"Well I prefer the baby one"

etc.

Awesome Movie!

GabrielHurl
06-29-2008, 02:45 AM
this bullshit again????? :noidea:

to the OP - OK, we get it - you don't like Carver - but you're regurgitating the same old shit from your thread last weekend

GabrielHurl
06-29-2008, 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by giambac http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=66940#post66940)

Half of the TFC supporters think Sutton has been our MVP this season. Some of you think he should be on the Allstar team and Mo hasn't used him in the past 2 weeks???????? Seems strange too me

So Mo picks the team now??????????? And to think you had a hardon against Carver?

So who is it then? Or are we drunk again?

giambac
06-29-2008, 07:58 AM
Road games:

Columbus, when our roster was shite. Loss
DC, when our roster was shite. Loss
LA, with improving roster (Robert + Guevara). Win
DC, with complete roster minus Robinson. Loss, thanks to your true love Greg Sutton.
Houston - Loss
NE - Narrow, possibly undeserved loss.

I dont think ive missed any. You state our roster is better than most teams' on paper. I agree. Though not better than DC, Houston, and NE. Our roster wasnt better than Columbus' on paper since we didnt yet have our three acquisitions. LA, we won. There is not a single road game where we underperformed. We performed exactly to our abilities in every single one. Id argue that we even exceeded expectations in LA, as our defense was still a shambles. The schedule is largely responsible for our problems on the road, not Carver's lineup.

You in away defend my point. Last week at home vs KC we did have our full lineup with all our acquisitions.

Waht does Carver do?? How many points did we get?

Everone knows it's hard to win on the road, so why didn't he amke sure he fielded his best team.

jabbronies
06-29-2008, 08:14 AM
That first goal was a defensive fuck up IMO.
If the D were on their man, that goal would not have gone in. No one was covering the back post. Our D, as been the case in other losses this year, dropped the ball.

Can we blame Carver for that? no I don't think so, this is the D's fault IMO...

We can't score goals at will. No one on the team can seem to score when we need it. We need someone who can finish.

Again, is it Carvers fault that our guys can't stay onside and finish a goal? I think it's the guys we have can't score. We can setup - our mid is solid with setting up chances, we just can't finish. And Carver has already admitted that.



Carver said his team needed a little bit of extra quality in order to get over the hump on nights like these and vault the hurdle he has set for his rapidly improving side. "We've got players that can win games for us if we get players in the right areas," Carver said. "For long periods of the game, we didn't get them in the right areas. We had chances. If we've got a guy who can put the ball in the back of the net, it might be a different story."

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-29-2008, 10:01 AM
That first goal was a defensive fuck up IMO.
If the D were on their man, that goal would not have gone in. No one was covering the back post. Our D, as been the case in other losses this year, dropped the ball.

Can we blame Carver for that? no I don't think so, this is the D's fault IMO...

We can't score goals at will. No one on the team can seem to score when we need it. We need someone who can finish.

Again, is it Carvers fault that our guys can't stay onside and finish a goal? I think it's the guys we have can't score. We can setup - our mid is solid with setting up chances, we just can't finish. And Carver has already admitted that.


thank you!! Carver will lead this team to great things in the next few seasons, Mo made the right choice bringing him in.

Denis
06-29-2008, 10:04 AM
That's the problem. This team can't move on and learn from their mistakes. They haven't shown they can. Their next game is July 12th on the road against a good Chicago team. there is no reason to believe this team will win on the road. So it is areal possibilty that they may be in last place after that game.

THAT"S WHY I WAS SAYING LAST WEEKS GAME VS KC WAS CRITICAL. IT WAS AN EASY 3 POINTS THAT CARVER BLEW IN HIS PLAYER SELECTIONS. IT WILL END UP COSTING THIS TEAM. BELIEVE ME.

Well that's me off to fling myself from the top of the CN tower.

Goodbye, cruel world! :(

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-29-2008, 10:11 AM
some of you guys just amuse me with your blindness... Honestly you would probably blame the water boy for TFC's bad result than blaming Carver.

The fact of the matter is that Sutton was FENOMENAL for us thus far in the season... many times he saved our asses and games we should have lost we won ex: LA away game (3-2 win). And many tmes if it wasn;t for him we would have lost 8-0. He's been many times our star players i would even say the most consistent player on the field.

The fact that he may have the ocassional trouble... but what goaltender doesnt? He's a great shot blocker and that's why he has a problem with rebounds every great shot blocker have trouble with rebounds the best example Kahn... But Sutton makes more great saves than he does when he ocasional gives the little spill. Plus his presence in the box and air game is 10 points.... i don;t think a he has allowed a header yet...

On the other hand... you have Edwards a rookie who really hasn;t been contested most of the shot he has received were straight at him... something that i could have saved.
Those who think that Edwards is a better goaltender than Sutton are OUT of their mind...

Now to answer your point:

1) that is loser talk... Evryone know that players matter and that's the reason everyone wants to win in order to make the play offs.. Second as you said what matters is building a team... You are totally right but I think carver is creating just a mess with a roster full of insecure players rather than a strong 11 players with confident subs who come inbreak the 11 if the play well enough... and not because they were part of a team that brought a result although they may have done jack shit.

2) If edwards is our future then he should be kept that way... in the FUTURE... not NOW when there is a better player available..

3) that is loser talk #2. Ask any fans of a great team in the world like Barcelona, Real , man U etc.. If they had that attitude they would ahve never achieved greatness...


3) those clubs never started out great did they, they had to build from the ground up like TFC is doing right now, no over night miracles.

2 Edwards will be handling games when Sutton is riding the Canada bench again, as we all know onStad will start for Canada, so Edwards should be the starter.

1) the playoffs would be nice, but building a stronger team must be first priority, like i said earlier, if we cant win on the road making the playoffs
wont mean too much

olegunnar
06-29-2008, 10:46 AM
I think people need to get their heads out of the sand.
Just because it's Giambac and he kind of goes over the line sometimes doesn't mean the KC game and the way carver treated the line up the same way a parent of a 8 yr old girls league team would do, wasn't a fuck up.

Look at the standings today. With a win DC will be ahead of us. NYRB are only 1 point behind us. We're only a point ahead of Shitcago and they have a game in hand.
We've played 2 more games at home than we have on the road...where we stink. By the time July 12th comes around, we'll probably be in 6th in the east...then probabilities point to us losing in Shitcago and falling even further behind the pace.

Fact is dropping points against KC was a huge screw up. One that can not be rationalized.

You play the game to win. That's why they keep score. That's why it makes no sense to play games with the line ups. This isnt' a co ed softball where every 3rd player has to be a woman. It's a professional soccer league.

Yohan
06-29-2008, 10:48 AM
People with short attention spans are starting to really annoy me.

Even great managers make screw ups once in a while. Sheesh

Shaughno
06-30-2008, 08:51 AM
I think people need to get their heads out of the sand.
Just because it's Giambac and he kind of goes over the line sometimes doesn't mean the KC game and the way carver treated the line up the same way a parent of a 8 yr old girls league team would do, wasn't a fuck up.

Look at the standings today. With a win DC will be ahead of us. NYRB are only 1 point behind us. We're only a point ahead of Shitcago and they have a game in hand.
We've played 2 more games at home than we have on the road...where we stink. By the time July 12th comes around, we'll probably be in 6th in the east...then probabilities point to us losing in Shitcago and falling even further behind the pace.

Fact is dropping points against KC was a huge screw up. One that can not be rationalized.

You play the game to win. That's why they keep score. That's why it makes no sense to play games with the line ups. This isnt' a co ed softball where every 3rd player has to be a woman. It's a professional soccer league.

WHY THAT GAME?

What was specifically so important about that game?

Seriously? I mean, what about when we tied Columbus and NYRB in May at home? Shouldn't they be just as important? We should have taken those points too, no? I mean, we're playing to win after all.


The problem with Giambac isn't his point. It's the fact that he keeps trying to debate an issue, that is old and has long been beaten to death. Yes, we should have taken points. Yes, we should have beat them with the line up that was started. Yes, Guevara should have come on earlier to make a greater impact. WE FUCKING KNOW THIS. Why concentrate on a tie from two weeks ago when we have some great and important games to look forward to?

HOW DOES THIS INCESSANT BITCHING BENEFIT ANYONE? The topic was dead before until Giambac decided Carver needed to be put in his place again. Maybe we should go back with Mo. I mean, we were so successful with him at the helm weren't we?

Mo last year said that the home games were where we are supposed to be unbeatable. Carver made that a reality.

Sorry, but I fail to see a reason to be negative about this season so far. Sure we could be better, that's life. I'd rather aim to improve than dwell on a most likely meaningless result.

rocker
06-30-2008, 09:06 AM
giambac = the same guy who complains about the quality of talent in the Canada Cup and the price of the tickets, then buys tickets to the Canada Cup, then sells them on ticket trader.. hahahha

Shaughno
06-30-2008, 09:09 AM
giambac = the same guy who complains about the quality of talent in the Canada Cup and the price of the tickets, then buys tickets to the Canada Cup, then sells them on ticket trader.. hahahha


Giambac, the guy who calls me out in a thread... 5+ times to answer his questions. When I do, the guy fucks off and won't respond to my post. ;)

olegunnar
06-30-2008, 09:21 AM
WHY THAT GAME?

What was specifically so important about that game?

Seriously? I mean, what about when we tied Columbus and NYRB in May at home? Shouldn't they be just as important? We should have taken those points too, no? I mean, we're playing to win after all.


Against Columbus and NYRB we played our best team. That's why no one is blaming Carver for that.

The KC game is a sore spot because playing a B team, meant a) the best 11 weren't on the field and b) the coach gave the message to the players that maximum attention and commitment to the game wasn't important, otherwise he would have played the best 11. It was like an early round FA cup game, or a pre-season friendly. Play guys for the sake of getting a run out rather than playing guys to win.

That meant that 1) we didn't give ourselves the best chance to win , from a squad selection standpoint and 2) the odds were that by Carver taking it easy on KC that attitude would rub off on the players...and we saw both of thosse things happen. The players played uninspired, and mimicked the coaches attitude.

I'm not disputing that this season is better than last. I'm not saying that Carver is a failure. My beef and my continued involvement in this thread/topic is against the excuse makers and rationalizers that seem to think everything will be hunky dory, it's just great to have a team and how dare we as lowly expansion fans of a team in the crappy MLS expect quality.

Carver's going to make mistakes, and undoubtedly this year is a vast improvement over last. That's good progress, but that doesn't make it wrong to expect excellence in everything all the time. That's what makes winners. High standards. The standards here are really low.
Hey we scored a road goal! Break out the champagne!

joel
06-30-2008, 09:29 AM
Hey maybe if I bold my posts, somebody might actually listen to what I have to whine about. Acknowledge me !!!1111!!

olegunnar
06-30-2008, 09:30 AM
Also in terms of "marking this game on the calendar"
Lets use Fulham as an example.

They needed to beat Portsmouth on the last day of the season to stay up.
If they had not drawn Derby 0-0 at home earlier in the season, they wouldn't have been in a dodgey spot at the end of the year.

Apply that to us. Our 2nd last game is at home vs Chicago. It's possible we may have to win that game to stay in contention for the playoffs. Had we gotten full points about KC we may only need a draw, or could maybe even afford a loss.

So often you see manufactured drama at the end of the season...when in fact evey game is a possible 3 points.

I'm over it. I just don't understand the people making excuses for the screw up.

Shaughno
06-30-2008, 09:33 AM
Against Columbus and NYRB we played our best team. That's why no one is blaming Carver for that.


But really, he did play his best XI available aside from Guevara. Who still got playing time and wasn't able to finish his chances.



The KC game is a sore spot because playing a B team, meant a) the best 11 weren't on the field and b) the coach gave the message to the players that maximum attention and commitment to the game wasn't important, otherwise he would have played the best 11. It was like an early round FA cup game, or a pre-season friendly. Play guys for the sake of getting a run out rather than playing guys to win.


Kansas is still a decent team, despite recent results.

How can you honestly make that comment? How do you know he said before the game, "Right lads, go out there and don't worry about a result because Guevara isn't starting. Therefore we don't need to worry about winning." Because that's basically what you're saying with that comment.

Aside from Guevara, who exactly should have been starting? Brennan and Sutton had just got back from Int'l duty less than 48 hours before the game. Edu the same, but within a few days I believe. Guevara was the only 'starter' who had time to train with the team after he got back. Ever think that maybe, just maybe, that Guevara wasn't training up to par? Maybe he hadn't earned his spot back?



That meant that 1) we didn't give ourselves the best chance to win , from a squad selection standpoint and 2) the odds were that by Carver taking it easy on KC that attitude would rub off on the players...and we saw both of thosse things happen. The players played uninspired, and mimicked the coaches attitude.

Again, you're making huge assumptions based on.... dick all. We gave ourselves a starting XI that had plenty of talent to put KC away. The players didn't come through with the result. The players played uninspired. Well it was the same players who put Colorado away so easily, who is arguably a better team than KC. Maybe, just maybe, they had something to do with the result and not solely Carver to blame.

Did Carver seem or act differently on the sideline to indicate to you that his attitude was laid back, and didn't care about the result? Not to me, he seemed his usual self. Barking orders, stern faced and frustrated when things didn't happen. Much like usual. I'm not sure where you get this from.

noochie
06-30-2008, 09:34 AM
the odds were that by Carver taking it easy on KC that attitude would rub off on the players...and we saw both of thosse things happen. The players played uninspired, and mimicked the coaches attitude.

So no Carver bashers have been able to answer the question as to why the same squad was so easily able to crush the Rapids the week before. Everyone is saying that KC is such a shit team and they should have easily been destroyed. Coming into this game, what would have made anyone believe that the so-called B-team could not get it done? And the comment about the attitude may be a little misguided IMO, Carver is the most passionate coach on the sidelines in MLS hands down. He pushes the whole team and that is why he gave them a shot. What would that say to players down the line "I only care about my all-stars so you losers go ahead and grab some bench."


I'm not disputing that this season is better than last. I'm not saying that Carver is a failure. My beef and my continued involvement in this thread/topic is against the excuse makers and rationalizers that seem to think everything will be hunky dory, it's just great to have a team and how dare we as lowly expansion fans of a team in the crappy MLS expect quality.

I for one am not willing to pack in the season for one 2 game winless streak. We are still very much in it, no one else is running away with it. I am not blind... it is simple math.


Carver's going to make mistakes, and undoubtedly this year is a vast improvement over last. That's good progress, but that doesn't make it wrong to expect excellence in everything all the time. That's what makes winners. High standards. The standards here are really low.
Hey we scored a road goal! Break out the champagne!

I think it is wrong to expect excellence all the time, expecting excellence does not breed winners. Talk to a Yankees fan who hasn't seen a championship in 8 years despite the largest spend and veritable team of returning all-stars year after year. They demand excellence and it doesn't mean squat. I won't mention that hockey franchise around here either... pretty sure their standards as just as low.

So hey, if that means I am drinking the koolaid... then pass the fucking glass.

Shaughno
06-30-2008, 09:36 AM
So often you see manufactured drama at the end of the season...when in fact evey game is a possible 3 points.

I'm over it. I just don't understand the people making excuses for the screw up.


Of course every game is 3 points. All I'm saying is that people are making excuses to portray Carver as the reason behind the loss. Maybe, just maybe the players had something to do with it as well. The same players who a week before were able to pull off a win against a tougher opposition.

olegunnar
06-30-2008, 09:44 AM
But really, he did play his best XI available aside from Guevara. Who still got playing time and wasn't able to finish his chances.



Kansas is still a decent team, despite recent results.

How can you honestly make that comment? How do you know he said before the game, "Right lads, go out there and don't worry about a result because Guevara isn't starting. Therefore we don't need to worry about winning." Because that's basically what you're saying with that comment.

Aside from Guevara, who exactly should have been starting? Brennan and Sutton had just got back from Int'l duty less than 48 hours before the game. Edu the same, but within a few days I believe. Guevara was the only 'starter' who had time to train with the team after he got back. Ever think that maybe, just maybe, that Guevara wasn't training up to par? Maybe he hadn't earned his spot back?



Again, you're making huge assumptions based on.... dick all. We gave ourselves a starting XI that had plenty of talent to put KC away. The players didn't come through with the result. The players played uninspired. Well it was the same players who put Colorado away so easily, who is arguably a better team than KC. Maybe, just maybe, they had something to do with the result and not solely Carver to blame.

Did Carver seem or act differently on the sideline to indicate to you that his attitude was laid back, and didn't care about the result? Not to me, he seemed his usual self. Barking orders, stern faced and frustrated when things didn't happen. Much like usual. I'm not sure where you get this from.

Fair enough. I guess we'll agree to disagree. I know when the stuttering moron was announcing the team and Cunningham and Harmse we're starting instead of Guevera and Edu it was a shock and disappointment.
It was nice that Colorado's striker is worse than cunnigham and we settled down in time to beat Colorado with a B team, but to try and do that every week is a risk. So right off the bat it wasn't a good sign.

I think after a week of arguing on the boards some real arguments about Carver's decision have mingled with arguments against people's excuses. The expectations being one of them. After the KC game people were linking last years standings (just as an example) and now that's become part of the argument.

I'll shut up about it. I hope though Carver learns from his mistakes. He seems to be a smart guy so I'm sure he will.

djking2
06-30-2008, 09:53 AM
It seems to me a few people fail to see the significance of the fact that TFC is likely to play 40 games this year not including friendlies and playoffs. (That's 30 MLS 4 Nutrilite and 6 CCL group matches and yes I'm assuming). To think 11 guys can play all those games is not to bright. Player rotation is a necessity and not just here in the MLS.

Playing the squad that beat COL 3-1 the week before against a team lower in the table is not a real stretch. Shit result for sure but what ya gonna do.

Now if he starts Lombardo tomorrow I'll have issues

olegunnar
06-30-2008, 10:00 AM
It seems to me a few people fail to see the significance of the fact that TFC is likely to play 40 games this year not including friendlies and playoffs. (That's 30 MLS 4 Nutrilite and 6 CCL group matches and yes I'm assuming). To think 11 guys can play all those games is not to bright. Player rotation is a necessity and not just here in the MLS.

Playing the squad that beat COL 3-1 the week before against a team lower in the table is not a real stretch. Shit result for sure but what ya gonna do.

Now if he starts Lombardo tomorrow I'll have issues

Here's one of the excuses that's been touted.
Please explain how a 2 week break (minus a 20 minute run out) in the middle of june, has any relevence or relationship to our busy July schedule.
If we're going to accept the "hey we need to rotate players" argument, shouldn't we be making it next month? When we're playing more than a game a week, rather than in june where it's one game a week?
Like for example playing bench players and reserves @Van and in the 2nd half of the friendlies (unlimited subs) and potentially home vs Montreal if we have the Cup wrapped up? Not during a league game!

Note: Shaughno et al...this is not a Carver rant! :D

giambac
06-30-2008, 03:22 PM
WHY THAT GAME?

What was specifically so important about that game?

Seriously? I mean, what about when we tied Columbus and NYRB in May at home? Shouldn't they be just as important? We should have taken those points too, no? I mean, we're playing to win after all.


The problem with Giambac isn't his point. It's the fact that he keeps trying to debate an issue, that is old and has long been beaten to death. Yes, we should have taken points. Yes, we should have beat them with the line up that was started. Yes, Guevara should have come on earlier to make a greater impact. WE FUCKING KNOW THIS. Why concentrate on a tie from two weeks ago when we have some great and important games to look forward to?

HOW DOES THIS INCESSANT BITCHING BENEFIT ANYONE? The topic was dead before until Giambac decided Carver needed to be put in his place again. Maybe we should go back with Mo. I mean, we were so successful with him at the helm weren't we?

Mo last year said that the home games were where we are supposed to be unbeatable. Carver made that a reality.

Sorry, but I fail to see a reason to be negative about this season so far. Sure we could be better, that's life. I'd rather aim to improve than dwell on a most likely meaningless result.


DICKY BOY,

you are what they call a TOTAL HOMER. You have your face shoved up your as so far that you can't see. Your attitude on this board is that you can never question the coaches or managements decision. To be a true TFC supporter you have to respect and bow to the coach, team and management. It is becasue of blind supporters like you who can't make their own opinions that Toronto teams never succeed. You don't understand what it takes to win so you can't or don't make your own view. Your view is to just accept what the coach says and does.

You also don't read carefully. Look at waht I said. THERES A REASON WHY I FOCUSED ON THE KC GAME.

TFC lost game sin May to Columbus and NYRB because they were shit. The players on the team were worse than what we had last year. That's why they loss.

After that we igned Guevera, RR, Robert and Teliby etc. We were a better team. All our international players were available for the KC game. We were playing at home aginst KC (the last place team in the league). Carver sat out the players and we only got 1 out of a possible 3 points. LOOK AT the standings Today. LOOK AT HOW TIGHT THE EAST IS. Look at the remaining schedule. TFC has more road games than any other teams in the East. We all know how diffcult it is for TFC to get points on the road. THERFORE THESE 2 points were critical vs KC. CARVER UNDERESTIMATED KC AND HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 2 POINTS WE LOST. That is why I focus on that game. It was his decision making that lost the 2 points.

The games vs. NYRB or Columbus he didn't have the players. LIKE I SAID you have your face so far up myour ass you can't see this. You can never provide valid responses to my arguments. You just ignore my points with stupid comments because you are a homer.

Why did Carver start Edwards vs New England? Is it becasue he didn't allow a goal vs KC? Fuck man KC had no shots on net. Sutton is one of the better goalies in the league and has played great for us this year. Some would argue he is our MVP. IS Carver punishinh him because he honoured his international duties?

Carver and his stupid policies and decisions are fucking us up. The reason and only reason this team is better than last year is because Mo brought in some quality players. Carver doesn't know how and when to use them that there is a good possibilty this team won't make the playoffs. Not if he continues to give easy points away.

LIKE I SAID LOOK AT THE STANDINGS TODAY AND HOW TIGHT THE EAST IS, LOOK AT THE REMAINING SCHEDULE AND HOW MANY ROAD GAMES WE HAVE COMPARED TO OTHER TEAMS, BUT most importantly pull your head out of your ass

olegunnar
06-30-2008, 03:48 PM
Hey Giambac
I get where you're coming from. In fact I agree with most of what you said (not including insults).
I also understand that it gets frustrating when so many seem to be willing to decieve themselves.

That said, I doubt after two weeks there will be any mea culpas or even slight admissions that maybe we shouldnt' have taken KC so lightly. It's not going to happen at this point.

Why my post then? This topic is going to get locked, and you'll be labelled the complainer and Carver hater. Unfairly I might add.

So maybe we agree to disagree...and walk away...and forget about this thread.
















Until october when we miss the playoffs by 1 or 2 points!

Phil
06-30-2008, 06:59 PM
The mods are fine with a debate but can we please leave personal insults out of it?

I have sent some PM's about this, I don't want to close this thread so can we please be civil?

Cheers

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 08:06 PM
DICKY BOY,

you are what they call a TOTAL HOMER.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/ExiledRed/homer.jpg

giambac
06-30-2008, 11:36 PM
The mods are fine with a debate but can we please leave personal insults out of it?

I have sent some PM's about this, I don't want to close this thread so can we please be civil?

Cheers

Agreed,

I stepped ove rthe line and I apologize to shaugno.

I must say however that it does get frustrating after awhile that whenever someone poses an opininion against a decsion made by coach or management that they get labelled as being negative and nonsupporters.

at the end of the day we all want the same thing ... for TFC to be successful. That doesn't mean you always have to agree witheverything.

andyc
06-30-2008, 11:44 PM
Who wouldn't love this guy??

http://samueljscott.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/homer_simpson.jpg

koryo
07-01-2008, 08:27 AM
Agreed,
I must say however that it does get frustrating after awhile that whenever someone poses an opininion against a decsion made by coach or management that they get labelled as being negative and nonsupporters.

I wouldn't take it personally. Part of it is that Carver has already improved this team beyond most expectations. He also comes with credentials, something Mo doesn't have as a coach, so Carver's likely to get more backing from the rank and file. I'll be the first to say I'm one of his staunchest supporters. Having said that, I don't think he's always right... but then who is? The job isn't finished - Carver knows it, and we're seeing the proof of that.



at the end of the day we all want the same thing ... for TFC to be successful. That doesn't mean you always have to agree witheverything.

And that's really the thing. A big problem with message boards is all the passion and none of the speech-in-context, so a thread can go south pretty quick.

Above all else, we're an improved team but we're not the finished article. I don't think there is one person in the organization who believes otherwise. We're still three-four players away from being a true contending team. Part of support is patience, and a leap of faith.

"Remember. Rome wasn't built in a day. But also remember, I wasn't on that job." - Brian Clough