Possible coaching candidate for TFC [Archive]

DangerRed

12-06-2010, 04:02 PM

He doesn't have any coaching experience. Right now, that is the last thing TFC needs. We need a coach who knows how to win.

"I have played 15 years of my 20 year soccer career in Germany. I went through all that. 1. With Kaiserslautern: we went from last place after more than half of the season to manage to stay in the league and win the German Cup. With almost the same team we won the Bundesliga Championship the next year. 2. With Schalke: from a goal to finish the season on 9th place we finished on 3rd, qualified for UEFA Cup and won it that fallowing year with almost the same team. That doesn’t happen through accident that is team building. I’m positive with that experience I can personally pass these things on to players. 3. As a coach at FC Saarbrücken, I had to deal with 34+ players. Many players who had come from big clubs like Bayern Munich, but were simply there to collect a paycheck. I had no assistant coach and was left without much support from the Club officials, but I fought every game for every point. I believe in giving 100% on the field for 90 minutes and leaving it all out on the field every time."

Stryker

12-06-2010, 04:02 PM

its mls rumours. I dont even have to read. Already know its bullshit.
You do huh? Guess the MLSR editor made up his whole interview with Dooley.

Foot meet mouth.

TFC07

12-06-2010, 04:03 PM

"I have played 15 years of my 20 year soccer career in Germany. I went through all that. 1. With Kaiserslautern: we went from last place after more than half of the season to manage to stay in the league and win the German Cup. With almost the same team we won the Bundesliga Championship the next year. 2. With Schalke: from a goal to finish the season on 9th place we finished on 3rd, qualified for UEFA Cup and won it that fallowing year with almost the same team. That doesn’t happen through accident that is team building. I’m positive with that experience I can personally pass these things on to players. 3. As a coach at FC Saarbrücken, I had to deal with 34+ players. Many players who had come from big clubs like Bayern Munich, but were simply there to collect a paycheck. I had no assistant coach and was left without much support from the Club officials, but I fought every game for every point. I believe in giving 100% on the field for 90 minutes and leaving it all out on the field every time."

I stand corrected.

Detroit_TFC

12-06-2010, 04:08 PM

MLSR is the shit Midas. Anything they touch turns to bullshit. If I was standing there watching them do the interview, I'd still think it was bullshit.

TFCRegina

12-06-2010, 04:20 PM

MLSR is the shit Midas. Anything they touch turns to bullshit. If I was standing there watching them do the interview, I'd still think it was bullshit.

Quite popular with the flies I hear though.

J .

12-06-2010, 04:25 PM

Need someone with experience, preferably in and outside of MLS.

Roogsy

12-06-2010, 04:34 PM

Sounds like a great candidate for TFC year 1. Not so great for TFC year 5 and desperate for immediate results. Too bad. This guy sounds like a diamond in the rough.

TFCRegina

12-06-2010, 04:37 PM

Sounds like a great candidate for TFC year 1. Not so great for TFC year 5 and desperate for immediate results. Too bad. This guy sounds like a diamond in the rough.

I will point out he guided his club to 6th place in his time there. He may be the right guy, but he may not be. We need to consider all options that apply.

Roogsy

12-06-2010, 04:40 PM

I will point out he guided his club to 6th place in his time there. He may be the right guy, but he may not be. We need to consider all options that apply.

No disagreement.

mastermixer

12-06-2010, 04:45 PM

Ultra & Proud

12-06-2010, 04:52 PM

Just a Hypothetical - If Klinsmann decides after searching far and wide that Cochrane has convinced him he's the right man would you all trust his decision?

If that happens I trust that Klinsmann has been sitting on the beach for the fall and winter months and just made the easiest payday of any employee/consultant ever.

Dunc

12-06-2010, 04:53 PM

I can't divulge my source but we are definitely getting Martin Jol

TFCRegina

12-06-2010, 04:53 PM

The longer this GM/Coach search process takes, the more convinced I am one of either Cochrane or Daso will stay put as is. Or both...

Just a Hypothetical - If Klinsmann decides after searching far and wide that Cochrane has convinced him he's the right man would you all trust his decision?

As I've said, I'm not all that convinced that Cochrane would be a bad GM, he's made some smart moves. Is he the right man, right now? Probably not. But in the future, I think he'd be in consideration.

Nobody will say he has no experience next time this happens, as he clearly has experience.

Roogsy

12-06-2010, 05:02 PM

If that happens I trust that Klinsmann has been sitting on the beach for the fall and winter months and just made the easiest payday of any employee/consultant ever.

You mean how MoJo earned his paycheque? :D

Detroit_TFC

12-06-2010, 05:13 PM

I can't divulge my source but we are definitely getting Martin Jol

Maybe true, Ashley will fire him three days after he arrives in Newcastle, without explanation.

J .

12-06-2010, 05:20 PM

Just a Hypothetical - If Klinsmann decides after searching far and wide that Cochrane has convinced him he's the right man would you all trust his decision?

Im not so worried abotu Cochrane part as I would be about Dasovic. Im hoping they give the keys of the ship TFC to Nicol as I think he has done good things at NER for the most part.

ensco

12-06-2010, 06:19 PM

I think this is an interesting candidate. He would have major, instant credibility with MLS players and has legitimate experience in a big league.

All our coaches have had one or the other, but not both (excepting Cummins, who had neither).

bigtfcfan

12-06-2010, 07:22 PM

He has no coaching experience. So it's a big NO.

Huyton

12-06-2010, 08:23 PM

From Wikipedia:

Thomas Dooley (born May 12, 1961, in Bechhofen, West Germany) is a retired German-American soccer defender and defensive midfielder, a long-time member and former captain of the United States national team.

Professional
Dooley, born to a German mother and a U.S. Army father, started his professional career in 1984 with third division club FC Homburg. Prior to that, he had played as a forward with amateur team FK Pirmasens. He moved to midfield with Homburg and helped the team move steadily up the German leagues, until they finally reached the Bundesliga. He moved to Kaiserslautern in 1988 and helped them to the German Cup in 1990 and the Bundesliga title in 1991. After the 1994 World Cup, he moved to Bayer Leverkusen, and to Schalke 04 a year after that, helping them to the 1997 UEFA Cup title. At the end of the season, he made his move to Major League Soccer (MLS), signing with the Columbus Crew. Dooley would spend three seasons in Columbus, and was named to the MLS Best XI in both 1997 and 1998. In 2000, Thomas was traded to the MetroStars for Mike Duhaney, partially to help support Lothar Matthäus' adjustment to the United States. Dooley played one year for the Metros before retiring from soccer altogether. He then went back to Germany, becoming the head coach of FC Saarbrücken in 2002 and 2003.

National team
As U.S. Soccer started to look abroad for players eligible to play for its national team in advance of its hosting the 1994 FIFA World Cup, Dooley was discovered; he assumed US citizenship in 1992, and made his first international appearance on May 30 against Ireland. Dooley became a regular for the US almost immediately, being named U.S. Soccer Athlete of the Year in 1993 and then playing every minute at the 1994 FIFA World Cup. After John Harkes was dismissed from the U.S. national team, Dooley was named captain for the 1998 FIFA World Cup, and started every game for the U.S.[2] On February 21, 1999, Dooley was given a send-off match by the United States in a friendly against Chile. He would end his international career with 81 caps and 7 goals.

Dooley currently lives in Laguna Niguel, California, where he is the Player Development Program Manager with South Coast Bayern Futbol Club.

Admittedly, Saarbrucken is not a name to conjure up images of sexy football, but Dooley has 81 caps for his country, has played for teams that won the Bundesliga and the UEFA Cup, and has MLS experience as a player.

Yeah...I'd rather have Martin Jol, Guus Hiddink, Frank Rijkaard or Martin O'Neil, but I can't see Klinsmann being able to lure them to Toronto.

Alixir

12-06-2010, 09:50 PM

Newcastle just sacked Hughton...he was great getting Newcastle back into the premier league. An attacking oriented manager who might have some success in MLS.

maninb

12-07-2010, 08:20 AM

Newcastle just sacked Hughton...he was great getting Newcastle back into the premier league. An attacking oriented manager who might have some success in MLS.

LOL! Please get serious....He'll be snapped up by a British team very soon, no chance he'll consider MLS at this point in his career...You might as well ask for Jose...

razor787

12-07-2010, 08:32 AM

A point someone brought up awhile ago, makes me weary about bringing people like him in. If you coach at a high league, you are working with excellent players. Working in MLS you dont have the quality, so some coaches may likely completely flop here, whereas they do great overseas.

ManUtd4ever

12-07-2010, 08:53 AM

If that happens I trust that Klinsmann has been sitting on the beach for the fall and winter months and just made the easiest payday of any employee/consultant ever.

With all due respect to Earl Cochrane, this would be my impression as well...

GlenM

12-07-2010, 09:27 AM

His German background\experience along with Klinsmann's influence could go along way.

It seems kinda to easy if you ask me. I Hope they do there due diligence.

GlenM

sampace

12-07-2010, 09:58 AM

They should pay whatever it takes for Holger Osieck to get out of his contract and coach TFC.

tfcmanu

12-07-2010, 10:10 AM

Ok Lets see....Thomas Dooley!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dooley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Dooley)

Teams Managed: 2002–2003 Saarbrücken

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1._FC_Saarbr%C3%BCcken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1._FC_Saarbr%C3%BCcken)

2002–03 Regionalliga Süd (III) 6th - Promotion to 2003–04 Regionalliga Süd 3rd

Saarland Cup:

2001-02 Hasborn 1. FC Saarbrücken II FV Eppelborn 3-1 1,500
2002-03 Elversberg Borussia Neunkirchen FC Homburg 1-0 5,000
2003-04 Neunkirchen 1. FC Saarbrücken SV Elversberg 3-1 4,000
2004-05 Schiffweiler FC Kutzhof 1. FC Saarbrücken II 4-4 aet (11-10 pen

What Do You think?

Section 117

12-07-2010, 10:16 AM

The funny thing about bring a European trained coach to TFC is that if tehy have a very good CT, they will snap based on the talent and lack of soccer IQ by the majority of the players in our squad. They wouldn't last a year.

This is a major problem, hence why I think status quo is theright thing for this team at the moment. I know this is not the most popular sentiment at the moment, but we are not going to get a coach with MLS experience that will make an impact ie. Nichol, Arena, Schmid.

So IMO keep status quo is the best option, you bring a continuity to the squad. The coaches have started last year implementing their system the last 10 games and it would continue into this year with the core of players making the understanding of what is required very simple. They will be able to start signing the players that they want now as if TFC keeps waiting the pool of players will get samller.

Keeping Earl is also good for continutity as well, he understands the vision that they coaches want and will help manage the MLS rules and help finalize deals for players after the ok from the coaches. There are people working for TFC at the moment with contacts in Europe and SA that can bring in players but with uncertainity of the FO we keep missing the boat. Also, if Jurgen could supply FO with contacts in Europe and SA it would further help the squad.

Hiring from outside of the club to fill the GM and Coaching position would satisfy the masses in respect to bringing in a "name" but I don't think it is the best thing for the squad and if we do I can see us being in the same boat next year at this time when the coach quits because the quality is not what he expected and gets extremely fustrated

Kepping status quo IMO is the best thing for the squad

Kaz

12-07-2010, 10:24 AM

People have noticed he has spent the last several years working in Youth development in the states... So I'm sure he has some understanding bad Football IQ.

His single year of coaching experience comes from a team that was coming of regulation. He finished 6th in the a German 3rd tier league (most likely rebuilding after loosing higher paid players in fairness) and were promoted the following year under different leadership.

Anyone know if he was canned? or if he left on his own?

Yohan

12-07-2010, 10:25 AM

so... you think Daso is good enough?

nothing that says to me so far that Daso is the new Chris Hughton lol

if there is time to break down the entire house and start all over, it's now because we don't have a system or a team. mind you, i'm not sold on getting an European coach just because they are shinier either. (please, someone get Steve Nicol here!)

prizby

12-07-2010, 10:27 AM

Ray Wilkins!

Ron Manager

12-07-2010, 10:52 AM

Sportsnet article where Klinnsman tells Gerry Dobson that he expects the new man in place by Christmas.

Link (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/12/07/dobson_klinsmann_vision/)

jloome

12-07-2010, 11:15 AM

Sportsnet article where Klinnsman tells Gerry Dobson that he expects the new man in place by Christmas.

Link (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/12/07/dobson_klinsmann_vision/)

Nothing in that story about a new GM. That's unnerving. The idea of Earl Cochrane pulling the strings on major football deals is disturbing.

Beach_Red

12-07-2010, 11:39 AM

Nothing in that story about a new GM. That's unnerving. The idea of Earl Cochrane pulling the strings on major football deals is disturbing.

What makes you think there'll be any major deals? Klinsmann seems to have an idea about a DP (leadership being important, etc.,) so if he handles that signing it seems like everything else will be relatively minor.

ManUtd4ever

12-07-2010, 11:43 AM

They should pay whatever it takes for Holger Osieck to get out of his contract and coach TFC.

I would support that decision given his track record with the CMNT earlier in the decade. I don't think he has expressed interest though...

CretanBull

12-07-2010, 12:05 PM

We've gone from Donadoni and Queiroz to a guy who's only experience is with a fourth division team?

prizby

12-07-2010, 12:07 PM

We've gone from Donadoni and Queiroz to a guy who's only experience is with a fourth division team?

definetely concerning

jloome

12-07-2010, 12:23 PM

What makes you think there'll be any major deals? Klinsmann seems to have an idea about a DP (leadership being important, etc.,) so if he handles that signing it seems like everything else will be relatively minor.

Define relatively minor. Preki and Mo collectively have about 1,000 times the experience judging the relative skill of footballers that Earl Cochrane has, and they managed to blow two-thirds of our "minor" signings.

Why would we want to go with LESS experience. exactly? Why would Cochrane's resume suggest to you he has the ability to accurately assess any signing?

And if he's simply a figurehead relying on the advice of surrounding experts....well, that would be somewhat pointless. We don't need a GM position that's about PR.

Section 117

12-07-2010, 12:30 PM

Define relatively minor. Preki and Mo collectively have about 1,000 times the experience judging the relative skill of footballers that Earl Cochrane has, and they managed to blow two-thirds of our "minor" signings.

Why would we want to go with LESS experience. exactly? Why would Cochrane's resume suggest to you he has the ability to accurately assess any signing?

And if he's simply a figurehead relying on the advice of surrounding experts....well, that would be somewhat pointless. We don't need a GM position that's about PR.

This was due to them getting kick backs on the players that were signed.... The role of GM in soccer is unlike anything in North American sports. They do not need to find the players necessarily, they need to work out the contracts and make sure everything complies with MLS rules.

Danny Dichio and Nick have contacts across the pond and down south, they would be the people recommending who to sign if they are coaches and if not who ever is in charge would recommend players and all Earl has to get them to sign on the dotted line.

In Europe, the successful clubs have the coach who dictates the players he wants to sign and the board/GM who ever gets them to sign... So really the experience Earl needs is to be a great negoitator of contracts.

Beach_Red

12-07-2010, 12:32 PM

Define relatively minor. Preki and Mo collectively have about 1,000 times the experience judging the relative skill of footballers that Earl Cochrane has, and they managed to blow two-thirds of our "minor" signings.

Why would we want to go with LESS experience. exactly? Why would Cochrane's resume suggest to you he has the ability to accurately assess any signing?

And if he's simply a figurehead relying on the advice of surrounding experts....well, that would be somewhat pointless. We don't need a GM position that's about PR.

Because it doesn't matter. Because people aren't demanding more. The minute a post appeared on this board that said Cochrane was a good guy and people liked him and only you and a couple of other guys were opposed, the job was his.

This is an ownership that has shown over and over they are very accepting of a middle of the table team. Even Mo had the team in the middle of the table.

When people were so happy with a short-term consultant it pretty much told the ownership they didn't have to offer someone like Steve Nicol a five-year, big-money deal (like they did with their hockey team which still hasn't paid off).

If you were spending the money on this team, what would you do? Why give people more than they ask for?

rocker

12-07-2010, 12:56 PM

I've always said I want someone with experience. Maybe if we had the patience of a beginning expansion team, we could go with The Coch and Daso (they may be great some day), the way RSL let Lagerway and Kreis develop from no experience. But at this point, we just don't have that time for learning on the job. I want someone who has made his mistakes elsewhere and come up with a good formula for success that he can implement here immediately. I would love to have someone with reasonable success in MLS with at least 1 team. The 2-team success guys are gonna be hard to find.
Experienced foreigners are OK too, but I question their long-term commitment.
I feel like someone who has been in MLS and wants another MLS job has a commitment to growing this league and sticking it out.
Nicol would meet my criteria. Stealing Kinnear from Houston would be good too.

Section 117

12-07-2010, 01:03 PM

i
I've always said I want someone with experience. Maybe if we had the patience of a beginning expansion team, we could go with The Coch and Daso (they may be great some day), the way RSL let Lagerway and Kreis develop from no experience. But at this point, we just don't have that time for learning on the job. I want someone who has made his mistakes elsewhere and come up with a good formula for success that he can implement here immediately. I would love to have someone with reasonable success in MLS with at least 1 team. The 2-team success guys are gonna be hard to find.
Experienced foreigners are OK too, but I question their long-term commitment.
I feel like someone who has been in MLS and wants another MLS job has a commitment to growing this league and sticking it out.
Nicol would meet my criteria. Stealing Kinnear from Houston would be good too.

In a perfect world sure this would be who we hired, but really do you think that either of those two or any established coach is going to leave their job for Toronto???? Especially, at this point in the off season when clubs are already in the process of shaping up the rosters for next year and training camp in less than 2 months away.

ensco

12-07-2010, 01:52 PM

It's going to be very difficult to "steal" anybody given (I) the track record of the FO here and (ii) the uncertainty around you will actually own MLSE.

rocker

12-07-2010, 01:54 PM

it's too bad -- it would be nice to pulloff a Seattle type move even if it means getting charged by MLS for tampering, as happened with Sigi. tamper with Nicol or Kinnear ;)

TFCRegina

12-07-2010, 01:58 PM

Define relatively minor. Preki and Mo collectively have about 1,000 times the experience judging the relative skill of footballers that Earl Cochrane has, and they managed to blow two-thirds of our "minor" signings.

Why would we want to go with LESS experience. exactly? Why would Cochrane's resume suggest to you he has the ability to accurately assess any signing?

And if he's simply a figurehead relying on the advice of surrounding experts....well, that would be somewhat pointless. We don't need a GM position that's about PR.

Who said experience means anything?

Technically Wayne Gretzky should have been able to identify the correct players and play the right tactical game for the Phoenix Coyotes. After all, he played the game for a good 40 years of his life (basically since he was 3 or so).

Experience in the game doesn't necessarily mean you're good.

You'll find many of the finest managers were lousy players and went on to learn about the game as a coach or in some other role. Wenger himself went and got a masters in economics and routinely overperforms with Arsenal, yet he was a pretty lousy footballer.

And really, if experience is absolutely necessary to be a manager, then how is it that managers are discovered at all? How is it that Mourinho, or Wenger or any other manager ever became a manager?

jloome

12-07-2010, 03:07 PM

Who said experience means anything?

Technically Wayne Gretzky should have been able to identify the correct players and play the right tactical game for the Phoenix Coyotes. After all, he played the game for a good 40 years of his life (basically since he was 3 or so).

Experience in the game doesn't necessarily mean you're good.

You'll find many of the finest managers were lousy players and went on to learn about the game as a coach or in some other role. Wenger himself went and got a masters in economics and routinely overperforms with Arsenal, yet he was a pretty lousy footballer.

And really, if experience is absolutely necessary to be a manager, then how is it that managers are discovered at all? How is it that Mourinho, or Wenger or any other manager ever became a manager?

1) Ask yourself the logical question: which is the more common circumstance, to want to hire someone with experience or without.

2) While experience in the game might not make you a good coach, how can having "no experience" in the game benefit, exactly?

Life is about degrees, not black-and-white.

jloome

12-07-2010, 03:09 PM

Because it doesn't matter. Because people aren't demanding more. The minute a post appeared on this board that said Cochrane was a good guy and people liked him and only you and a couple of other guys were opposed, the job was his.

This is an ownership that has shown over and over they are very accepting of a middle of the table team. Even Mo had the team in the middle of the table.

When people were so happy with a short-term consultant it pretty much told the ownership they didn't have to offer someone like Steve Nicol a five-year, big-money deal (like they did with their hockey team which still hasn't paid off).

If you were spending the money on this team, what would you do? Why give people more than they ask for?

Because I'm not an idiot. You have to think long-term to survive in North American soccer.

And you're still assuming they just hired Klinsmann to placate people, instead of to find suitable candidates for both jobs as an underpinning point of your argument. We have no proof that's the case.

Perhaps people could try giving up the important points after we fail, not before.

TFCRegina

12-07-2010, 03:13 PM

1) Ask yourself the logical question: which is the more common circumstance, to want to hire someone with experience or without.

2) While experience in the game might not make you a good coach, how can having "no experience" in the game benefit, exactly?

Life is about degrees, not black-and-white.

I'm saying it doesn't make a lick of difference overall. Sure, there's some examples of spectacular failures in management without experience, but there's some lovely successes too.

And we can talk about loads upon loads of spectacular failures from experienced managers.

Experience is no guarantee of success and generally it comes down to other things.

rocker

12-07-2010, 03:26 PM

Experience is no guarantee of success and generally it comes down to other things.

What other things?

If someone's experience shows success, they are a better bet than someone with no experience at all.

No hiring is ever a guarantee, but you don't go around hiring people who have no or little experience if you have a team that has sucked for 4 years and doesn't have the time to see if the guy with no or little experience can succeed.

Secondly, when hiring, you usually have a pool of candidates. Usually in that pool you can find some prerequisites. Experience is usually one of those prerequisites. That's a minimum. Then you narrow your decision down after that.

Section 117

12-07-2010, 03:26 PM

Let's say when Klinsman has had his meetings with all of the people who he thinks would be a good fit for either position. He then decides that the best people to lead the squad is some European number 2 who has never actually been a head coach would that make people happy??? As that person never had actual experience ie. John Carver v2.0 To get a name coach with experience in Europe will probably be next to impossible as they are probably working right now or two it would be a major step back in their eyes.... So we go back to hiring someones number 2 which has zero experience and I guess people will be happy because he is from Europe. Which is not what any of us want.

Also, to these name coaches that were rumored to be linked with the position ie. Quieroz, Dondadoni etc... What makes anyone of them will do a better job with this squad then with the teams they were managing before. As per the two examples they lead their respected national teams and got canned. If they can't perform with the best players from their own countries, how are they going to suceed with players that substantially lower soccer IQ and talent?

Beach_Red

12-07-2010, 03:27 PM

Because I'm not an idiot. You have to think long-term to survive in North American soccer.

And you're still assuming they just hired Klinsmann to placate people, instead of to find suitable candidates for both jobs as an underpinning point of your argument. We have no proof that's the case.

Perhaps people could try giving up the important points after we fail, not before.

Honestly, I'm trying not to give up yet ;).

I've said it here before, I'm sure they demanded the waiters in their new sports bar have more experience than MoJo had running a team and yet they left him alone to build an entire infrastructure from scratch. We can hope they learned from that (we would have thought they learned something from their hockey and basketball teams, too) but we'd like to see some evidence.

TFC is certainly a low priority for MLSE and now with the CEO leaving and rumours of a sale it will likely get even less attention. I don't necessarily think that Klinsmann was hired to placate people, but the short-term contract given to Soccer Solutions makes it look like a stop-gap measure at best.

And now is a disastrous time for TFC to be without its own president in that boardroom.

TFCRegina

12-07-2010, 03:30 PM

What other things?

If someone's experience shows success, they are a better bet than someone with no experience at all.

Really? How do you isolate for differences in budgets? Hmm?

Could it be that Sir Alex isn't really all that great a manager and merely spends his way to victory (like most "experienced" managers do)?

The difference between a mediocre manager and a bad manager is that with the available money to the manager, a mediocre manager is merely able to perform as well as their payroll dictates they do and that's what most do.

A bad manager is like Mo Johnston and can spend to oblivion and still not get results.

A good manager is able to perform above and beyond what their budget dictates.

Since the good managers are so rare, they generally end up moving on to other clubs who want their services.

TFC doesn't have a hope in hell of a good manager if we're looking to get an experienced guy. The best we can hope for is a medicore manager, unless you're willing to take a risk and grab a manager with no experience.

rocker

12-07-2010, 03:58 PM

Really? How do you isolate for differences in budgets? Hmm?

Could it be that Sir Alex isn't really all that great a manager and merely spends his way to victory (like most "experienced" managers do)?

The difference between a mediocre manager and a bad manager is that with the available money to the manager, a mediocre manager is merely able to perform as well as their payroll dictates they do and that's what most do.

A bad manager is like Mo Johnston and can spend to oblivion and still not get results.

A good manager is able to perform above and beyond what their budget dictates.

Since the good managers are so rare, they generally end up moving on to other clubs who want their services.

TFC doesn't have a hope in hell of a good manager if we're looking to get an experienced guy. The best we can hope for is a medicore manager, unless you're willing to take a risk and grab a manager with no experience.

If you've followed my arguments, I've said hire an MLS experienced guy.
So your other factors don't matter. Anyone with MLS experience has already worked under the current budget system.

All I want is a guy who has actually been a GM or coach in this league before, and had some reasonable success (even a .500 record would be fine). That can be found. Peter Wilt, for example. Steve Nicol (if he can ask NE to let him go). etc.

jloome

12-07-2010, 04:56 PM

Could it be that Sir Alex isn't really all that great a manager and merely spends his way to victory (like most "experienced" managers do)?

No, he won the Scottish league title with Aberdeen despite the economic dominance of Rangers and Celtic.

And if that formula were logical, Man Utd would've always been successful, and they weren't.

UltraSuperMegaMo

12-07-2010, 05:53 PM

If they're looking to have a new manager by Christmas, as per the Dobson article, seems it's unlikely that it will be Dooley, as he states he's hand no contact with the team.

Heart of Stone

12-07-2010, 08:43 PM

All our coaches have had one or the other, but not both (excepting Cummins, who had neither).

CC was the best coach we've had...

TFCRegina

12-07-2010, 08:44 PM

CC was the best coach we've had...

Fact.

Cashcleaner

12-07-2010, 09:04 PM

TFCRegina

12-07-2010, 09:07 PM

Three words: Aberdeen Football Club.

Heck, even before his tenure with AFC the guy turned St. Mirren completely around.

AFC was competitive with Celtic and Rangers in the period before he got there and I'd love to check the financial data (i doubt it's available over the period).

As for St. Mirren, I can't speak to that as I don't know a damn thing about it.

ArmenJBX

12-07-2010, 09:10 PM

I'm starting to think maybe we should give Dasovic a chance, get a competent GM and let him build the squad, while Dasovic is head coach.

torontocelt

12-07-2010, 10:35 PM

AFC was competitive with Celtic and Rangers in the period before he got there and I'd love to check the financial data (i doubt it's available over the period).

As for St. Mirren, I can't speak to that as I don't know a damn thing about it.

According to the Aberdeen website, they have won the league four times, three during Fegusons tenure. He also won two european trophies with them which included them beating real madrid in one final for the cup winners cup. Ferguson is not a manager that needs to buy success and this proves it.

Ferguson has also competed in Europe and in the premiership with other huge teams who have also spent tons of money and he has still managed to come out with a record haul of premiership titles and a couple of european cups. Lets not forget also that he also bleeds home grown players and yes of course he is one of the bigeest spenders in the game, that is what happens when you manage a team like man u.

To even consider for a second that Fergie is only a great manager due to money is doing him a great disservice, he is not considered by footballs elite as being one of the greatest football managers who has ever lived for nothing, indeed to some in the game he is the best ever period.

Beach_Red

12-08-2010, 08:16 AM

^ Well, remember, this is Toronto where people still say the Jays only won back-to-back World Series because of their roster and that Cito had nothing to do with it...

jloome

12-08-2010, 12:37 PM

According to the Aberdeen website, they have won the league four times, three during Fegusons tenure. He also won two european trophies with them which included them beating real madrid in one final for the cup winners cup. Ferguson is not a manager that needs to buy success and this proves it.

Ferguson has also competed in Europe and in the premiership with other huge teams who have also spent tons of money and he has still managed to come out with a record haul of premiership titles and a couple of european cups. Lets not forget also that he also bleeds home grown players and yes of course he is one of the bigeest spenders in the game, that is what happens when you manage a team like man u.

To even consider for a second that Fergie is only a great manager due to money is doing him a great disservice, he is not considered by footballs elite as being one of the greatest football managers who has ever lived for nothing, indeed to some in the game he is the best ever period.

And Aberdeen weren't "competitive" with Rangers and Celtic prior to Ferguson. They had two Scottish cup final appearances in 40 years prior to that and one league title.

They were, perenially, the third or fourth-placed team. But that's hardly similar to what life was like under Ferguson where, still using all Scottish players mind, they won the European Cup twice.

Darlofletch

12-08-2010, 01:07 PM

And Aberdeen weren't "competitive" with Rangers and Celtic prior to Ferguson. They had two Scottish cup final appearances in 40 years prior to that and one league title.

They were, perenially, the third or fourth-placed team. But that's hardly similar to what life was like under Ferguson where, still using all Scottish players mind, they won the European Cup twice.

big difference between "european cup twice", and european cup winners cup and then the european super cup.

still though the point stands, I hate the guy but he's a good coach/manager.

TFCRegina

12-08-2010, 01:58 PM

And Aberdeen weren't "competitive" with Rangers and Celtic prior to Ferguson. They had two Scottish cup final appearances in 40 years prior to that and one league title.

They were, perenially, the third or fourth-placed team. But that's hardly similar to what life was like under Ferguson where, still using all Scottish players mind, they won the European Cup twice.

In 1975 they won the League cup.

1977-78, the coach who preceeded Fergie (Billy McNeil) won 61% of his matches. The team was in place before Fergie was there.

If you don't call 61% of your matches won competitive (and a League Cup), I don't know what is competitive.

Coincidentally, Fergie's winning percentage was lower than McNeil's, but not by much...and statistically it's insignificant.

TFCRegina

12-08-2010, 02:17 PM

big difference between "european cup twice", and european cup winners cup and then the european super cup.

still though the point stands, I hate the guy but he's a good coach/manager.

And I think he's average and has benefited immensely from the clubs he's been at. He's definitely not a Mo Johnston type. :D

jloome

12-08-2010, 04:43 PM

In 1975 they won the League cup.

1977-78, the coach who preceeded Fergie (Billy McNeil) won 61% of his matches. The team was in place before Fergie was there.

If you don't call 61% of your matches won competitive (and a League Cup), I don't know what is competitive..

Strawman, TFCR. We're talking about the history of the club, not a nine-month period directly prior to Fergie. I will concede, however, that he had something of a leg up when he came in due to a good squad.

ensco

12-09-2010, 12:10 AM

TFCRegina

12-09-2010, 01:01 AM

Man, thousands of pages have been spilled on this on the Red Devils board. Is there anything in Fergie's record that foreshadowed what was to come? Same with Wenger on the Arsenal boards.

Are these guys great, or just lucky because of the teams they coach? Who really knows?

Some people have done statistical analysis on it. Wenger (apparently) outperforms relative to club expenditure. Granted stats can be manipulated certain ways, but they were trying to isolate for expenditure and found that his clubs tend to be repeated outliers in leagues they play in.

Again, if you really want to see if Fergie is all that great, you need to find the financial data for the SPL, not just for when he was there, but for the five years prior his arrival and after his departure, and usually that's pretty tough to do for any sports league.

We (a professor and I) wanted to find data on attendance in the CFL over a 50 year period to identify trends and such for the purposes of a not-for-profit study and we were straight up turned down. Sports leagues are protective of their data, especially if they think they can sell it.

Stryker

12-09-2010, 02:42 AM

TFCRegina

12-09-2010, 12:19 PM

If I may interject something here. Didn't Rafa inherit essentially the same club Mourinho just left?
How is he doing by comparison?
You can have a great team and still fall way short of greatness. It's up to the coach to extract all that he can from what he has.

I've argued in the past that Rafa isn't even an average manager. His terrible performance at Liverpool spoke volumes to me.

s2cazz

12-09-2010, 12:47 PM

I've argued in the past that Rafa isn't even an average manager. His terrible performance at Liverpool spoke volumes to me.
Rafa doesn't even deserve to be an equipment manager for my beloved Inter. He's a twat.

torontocelt

12-09-2010, 01:02 PM

I've argued in the past that Rafa isn't even an average manager. His terrible performance at Liverpool spoke volumes to me.

I dont really understand this opinion, it is very one sided and misleading as Benitez accomplished a lot at Liverpool, more than other managers have at the club since they last won the league. Benitez won them the European Cup and he got them to another European cup final, that is a massive achievement for any manager. He also got them to second in the premiership which again is as close Liverpool have come under any manager since they last won the league. On top of that he won a super cup and a FA cup. That isn't the perfomance of a terrible manager. In his career he has also won La Liga twice I believe with Valencia and also the UEFA cup.

A terrible manager would never have been able to accomplish these achievements, it isn't all down to luck. The problem that Benitez has is that his signing policies are unpredicatible at best, he can pick some gems but more often than not he seems to buy players who do not perform. His inability to make Liverpool a consistant top 2 contender and his irregular league finishing positions gives people a negative view of his overall managing ability. The premiership is not an easy league to win and there certainly are bigger clubs than liverpool in the league who can out spend them. Benitez's time at Liverpool was unpredictable but he did bring them some big success, he just was not consistent enough.

I believe that managers just like players can hit bad slumps, they can be fantastic one season and then some seasons later they may not appear to be the same quality. It happens a lot in football management at all levels. In fairness he was never the right choice after Jose, I thought that at the time and although I do not think Benitez is a great manager I certainly do not think he is a terrible manager, he has won too many big trophies for me to ever think that. In saying that if you reckon Ferguson is only an 'average manager' then I can see why you would think Benitez is 'terrible' but it makes me wonder exactly who in your opinion is a great manager?

greatwhitenorf

12-09-2010, 07:44 PM

Heart of Stone

12-09-2010, 08:22 PM

Toronto should look at the top 10 U.S. college/university coaches and try to hire one of them...

torontocelt

12-09-2010, 08:51 PM

Walter Smith, of course.

Or Chris Houghton. On balance, did a fabulous job with Newcastle. Could hardly expect to be consistent being handed such a small squad, filled with quirky, undisciplined players. Short stint, great job.

Hasn't been a sacking with this much outrage in years.

Maybe this thread should shift to International forum.

Walter Smith is a good manager for sure, he has really made the most of the current rangers squad plus he done the same with scotland. He has however been shown up in Europe on many an occassion and his time at Everton was not fantastic. He is though a very good manager which pisses me off quite a bit at the moment.

Derko

12-09-2010, 08:54 PM

Just hire a competent, passionate coach who knows football and can get the most out of his players, doesn't really matter where from does it, hell Preki did fuck all and he was supposed to be the 'god' coach of the MLS. The players he and MoJo let go could have at least made it to the playoffs

Ossington Mental Youth

12-09-2010, 09:56 PM

Toronto should look at the top 10 U.S. college/university coaches and try to hire one of them...

kinda thought this too, Schellas hyndeman came from there and apparently the akron coach has been hollered at several times

Heart of Stone

12-09-2010, 10:31 PM

kinda thought this too, Schellas hyndeman came from there and apparently the akron coach has been hollered at several times

Agreed... the meat and potatoes of this league is always going to be NCAA type players... someone who knows them and their physical style of play would be a good fit...

Ossington Mental Youth

12-10-2010, 07:22 AM

dunno if id go that far

Section 117

12-10-2010, 08:51 AM

We want a quality manager and some of you think we should hire a coach from the NCAA... Have you watched the shit they call soccer??? No chance in hell I want some inexperience amercian coach from the NCAA coaching my club period....

I rather keep Danny and Nick then any of them. They have no MLS experience so now we are down grading to that really? Change for the sake of change is not good. Change to make our squad better I agree with, but to hire some no name college coach even that guy from Akron no chance. If they hire anyone without experience, instead of keeping status quo i will be upset and I wil not be happy to say the least

Ivan

12-10-2010, 03:02 PM

I can't divulge my source but we are definitely getting Martin Jol

Martin Jol!? I'd be estatic with this choice...and not just because I support Spurs and Ajax.

Ossington Mental Youth

12-10-2010, 03:05 PM

ill believe it when i see it

mastermixer

12-10-2010, 03:34 PM

If the new coach or GM were someone with any major soccer recognition... we would have heard rumours by now.
Don't get your hopes up too high for anything high profile.

Section 117

12-10-2010, 03:47 PM

Status Quo.... This is what I think we will be getting.

Earl as GM, Jimmy is Earl's bitch

Nick as coach, Danny as his number # 2

Soccer Solution will turn around and help with the academy and the implementation of a system that will be used from the academy all the way up to the senior squad. This will help with continutity and hopefully will establish the way the squad will play for many years. Also, teh combo of Nick and Danny will lead us to the playoffs this year and a cup within 3 years of being charge.

If this is what is going to happen we will have a team that we will be proud of.

Cashcleaner

12-10-2010, 03:58 PM

Toronto should look at the top 10 U.S. college/university coaches and try to hire one of them...

Not an outlandish idea, to be honest. As it was mentioned, former NCAA players make up a good portion of the talent pool in MLS. It could be a combo that works.

Yohan

12-10-2010, 04:15 PM

Not an outlandish idea, to be honest. As it was mentioned, former NCAA players make up a good portion of the talent pool in MLS. It could be a combo that works.
guys like Bob Bradley and Sigi Schmid and Schellas Hyndman did come up from US college soccer ranks. however, this may not guarantee instant success. anyone remember Hyndman's first year at Dallas? terrible team.
then Dallas made it to MLS cup finals in 2nd year

I'm not sure TFC supporters are going to be patient enough

Stryker

12-11-2010, 03:56 PM

In Dobson's interview with Klinsmann aired on Soccer Central today he said the process for finding a new coach is being "headed by Tom Anselmi".
Are you fucking kidding me? Anselmi couldn't find anything quality if he had a map.
Very disheartening.

dantdot

12-11-2010, 04:32 PM

Interviews here: http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/36625012001/40223743001/Klinsmann-sit-down

TFCRegina

12-11-2010, 04:51 PM

TFCRegina

12-12-2010, 02:44 AM

Back on topic some more:

MLS Talk apparently thinks that Avram Grant might be a good choice for TFC...if they can get him. 1 point against MLS Talk for thinking that Grant would partially base his decision on the Jewish population of Toronto.

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/is-now-avram-grants-time-to-move-to-mls/11086

So, is MLS still a good fit in 2011? Assuming that no one else is fired between now and the beginning of the season, there are only two job openings: Chivas and Toronto. Chivas is in a major market and would allow Grant to compete with one of the league’s premiere teams and stars. But Toronto would be a better overall fit. The club is closer to competing for an MLS Cup than Chivas and has a solid infrastructure in place to maintain a successful franchise.

prizby

12-13-2010, 02:47 PM

Sam Allardyce

Ossington Mental Youth

12-13-2010, 03:15 PM

wayne gretzky

JonO

12-13-2010, 03:23 PM

1 point against MLS Talk for thinking that Grant would partially base his decision on the Jewish population of Toronto.

Had to laugh at that... Do they realize Chivas plays in LA?

Ossington Mental Youth

12-13-2010, 03:27 PM

ok ok, ill be real.
walter gretzky

dantdot

12-13-2010, 04:44 PM

The 'ol Beirne tease.

Interesting manager candidates being considered. Good times ahead for TFC. 7 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/Paulbeirne/status/14433268124356610) via Twitter for iPhone (http://twitter.com/)

bgnewf

12-13-2010, 05:03 PM

Sam Allardyce

you beat me to it!!!

Dang! I for once wanted to start a completely unsubstantiated bullshit rumour first!!

prizby

12-13-2010, 06:55 PM

you beat me to it!!!

Dang! I for once wanted to start a completely unsubstantiated bullshit rumour first!!

just wanted to throw his name into the firewood collection...i mean he is unemployed now :p

jloome

12-19-2010, 01:47 PM

From Football365.com, former Blackburn boss Sam Alardyce says......

"And if Premier League football does not come my way, I have other ambitions.

"An international job interests me - that would be a new adventure."

Hmmmm....

TFC07

12-19-2010, 04:46 PM

torontocelt

12-20-2010, 10:59 AM

I don't think we have a chance to get him.

Well once upon a time he did manage Bolton and we did play Bolton back in the summer in a friendly. Even though it was not Big Sam in charge at that time I am still willing to say that it is simply too much of a coincidence. Big Sam will most probably, definitely, perhaps could be in charge of TFC in time for middle of the first quarter of the new season, of that there can be no doubt.

mastermixer

12-20-2010, 11:21 AM

Klinsmann must go talk with Benitez asap... might be available.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2010-12-20-1288870282_x.htm

Azerban

12-20-2010, 11:42 AM

From what I hear there is going to be a major announcement coming from the FO concerning a new coach / GM definitely within the next three months or so, just keep looking out for it. Tom has sought out help on this and there is no doubt that he now knows what he is doing with the club.

this is a fantastic post btw

Shway

12-20-2010, 11:42 AM

^ for what?

so he can continue his trend, and make are club even worse than it already is

Azerban

12-20-2010, 01:28 PM

Klinsmann must go talk with Benitez asap... might be available.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2010-12-20-1288870282_x.htm

http://imgur.com/QbZgX.gif

TFCRegina

12-20-2010, 01:34 PM

Klinsmann must go talk with Benitez asap... might be available.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/2010-12-20-1288870282_x.htm

Why would we want that piece of shit?

torontocelt

12-20-2010, 01:49 PM

^ for what?

so he can continue his trend, and make are club even worse than it already is

Oh come on, chill out...

ilikemusic

12-20-2010, 01:53 PM

I will not explain further, but I would be very pleased if TFC were to be run by a man named Dooley. :D

gracos

12-20-2010, 02:20 PM

We should get the Coach of Team Canada to be an assistant coach, providing wisdom both on and off the field, I know this might be close to impossible in how busy Team Canada is, but could it get any worse

billyfly

12-20-2010, 02:35 PM

Nelo Vingada just left Seoul FC and says he has offers from multiple clubs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelo_Vingada

J .

12-20-2010, 02:59 PM

TFCRegina

12-20-2010, 03:02 PM

menefreghista

12-20-2010, 03:10 PM

Nobody, from the CSA should be involved with this team. Ever.

Like Earl Cochrane?

DangerRed

12-20-2010, 05:39 PM

I've been informed by a source I have that the following have applied:

Mario Beretta - Received no Replies - Took a Job in Serie A with Brescia.
Another Italian coach who was not named who has Serie A experience.

If our FO gave Beretta no replies, they're either A) stupid and negligent or B) have a really strong candidate who's close to signing.

reggie

12-20-2010, 06:28 PM

im going with (A)nselmi!!

J .

12-20-2010, 06:39 PM

Nobody, from the CSA should be involved with this team. Ever.

Like Earl Cochrane?

Never. Ever. No one in that organization has a history of winning.

J .

12-20-2010, 06:40 PM

I've been informed by a source I have that the following have applied:

Mario Beretta - Received no Replies - Took a Job in Serie A with Brescia.
Another Italian coach who was not named who has Serie A experience.

Cochrane and Dasovic are likely going to get the jobs and stick around for the next hire if they dont get it this time, already undermining the new coach as the players know the guys who will be there for the long haul are these clowns.

This is a joke and disgrace on all levels to not have a manager by now.

Ossington Mental Youth

12-20-2010, 09:01 PM

cmon boys, 3 teams 1 year?
Is that really the sort of dependability one looks for in a coach?
dudes been with a team a year for the last decade (with exception to 2 years)

trane

12-22-2010, 10:07 AM

THe new year is upon us and we have no manager yet, at this point I almost do not care, unless this happens like NOW, we will do the same old, shit, comming into the next season, on step behind.

By the way this is not being negative, this is being a realist. We have gone into each season unprepared, and it looks like we are about to repeat it again. Maybe we can get away with hiring someone as late as January, if it is a great hire, but past that it will be inherently problematic.

[NBF]

12-22-2010, 10:09 AM

If you hire someone late January, this person will have missed the MLS Draft and he will want to spend some money if he's a so called "great hire".

menefreghista

12-22-2010, 10:22 AM

;1186646']If you hire someone late January, this person will have missed the MLS Draft and he will want to spend some money if he's a so called "great hire".

Which might explain why our 1st rounder was traded. The latter round picks are more of a crap shoot anyways. The new guy can release later round picks without many people caring.

Section 117

12-22-2010, 10:34 AM

The college draft this year is poorest it has been since TFC has been involved in the draft.

Beach_Red

12-22-2010, 10:46 AM

Which might explain why our 1st rounder was traded. The latter round picks are more of a crap shoot anyways. The new guy can release later round picks without many people caring.

Yes, let's hope there is actually a plan in place. I just read in the news thread it's less than 90 day to the start of the season - and realized it's more than 90 days since the coach and GM were fired. So we're more than halfway with no news. Maybe that's good, maybe now the team is being run a little more professionally and we don't have to put up with all those, "We're about to sign someone," quotes (if we ignore the, "A new manager will be in place by Christmas," and that isn't a sign of things not changing at all).

menefreghista

12-22-2010, 10:51 AM

Yes, let's hope there is actually a plan in place. I just read in the news thread it's less than 90 day to the start of the season - and realized it's more than 90 days since the coach and GM were fired. So we're more than halfway with no news. Maybe that's good, maybe now the team is being run a little more professionally and we don't have to put up with all those, "We're about to sign someone," quotes (if we ignore the, "A new manager will be in place by Christmas," and that isn't a sign of things not changing at all).

One of the assertions that came out of the town halls was that the FO had learned its lesson and we would not start the season behind the 8-ball like we usually do.

But with each passing day I wonder if that can even happen. I'm going to assume that any announcement that does come will be in the New Year. I will be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong.

Beach_Red

12-22-2010, 11:06 AM

One of the assertions that came out of the town halls was that the FO had learned its lesson and we would not start the season behind the 8-ball like we usually do.

But with each passing day I wonder if that can even happen. I'm going to assume that any announcement that does come will be in the New Year. I will be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong.

If a huge amount of work has been done behind the scenes and plans are progressing, then it'll be fine. However, it does seem like old times with a Paul B twitter last week about a number of coaching candidates and then nothing...

Section 117

12-22-2010, 11:19 AM

trust me when I say a lot of the candiates have a lot to be desired... None of the coaches have winning records, or if they did when they exerted their inluence on the club the results went down hill ala Preki...

I think really that if they don't hire a coach by Jan 1 then keep status quo take off the interm tag for Nick and Danny and let them get to work. We are missing the boat on a lot of palyers as we have no direction at the moment. Earl is in talks with a lot of players, but nothing can be finalized until the coach is in place.

menefreghista

12-22-2010, 11:23 AM

Earl is in talks with a lot of players, but nothing can be finalized until the coach is in place.

This is what worries me.

Beach_Red

12-22-2010, 11:27 AM

Earl is in talks with a lot of players, but nothing can be finalized until the coach is in place.

Which player's contracts expire on January 1st? Nana, Cann - any others?

menefreghista

12-22-2010, 11:33 AM

Beach_Red

12-22-2010, 11:41 AM

This is the problem. If you are a player looking to get your next contract are you going to wait on TFC because the new coach might like you. Or go sign with a team that can make you a definite offer?

if you have another choice you take it. Same with coaching and GM candidates - does it seem likely that MLSE will outbid someone else for the top choice?

117 is right, they should have just said from the start that Cochrane was going to be the GM and the current coaching staff was going to stay.

Those guys could use an experienced team president - even someone retired who would do it as a part-time consultant, but with a contract running through the season, not ending in the spring. Especially since Anselmi has been so upfront about the fact that MLSE don't know anything and are "still learning." So shouldn't they hire someone to learn from? Or do they think a six month contract with Soccer Solutions will give them all they need to know?

jloome

12-22-2010, 11:59 AM

I think really that if they don't hire a coach by Jan 1 then keep status quo take off the interm tag for Nick and Danny and let them get to work. We are missing the boat on a lot of palyers as we have no direction at the moment. Earl is in talks with a lot of players, but nothing can be finalized until the coach is in place.

Translation: internal politicking is fucking the whole thing up because individuals already with the company are angling for jobs they shouldn't have, potentially delaying the rest of the process.

And I'm the OPTIMIST around here.

(Nah, I don't know. But really: hiring a guy with no experience as a gm is just not a prudent move, ever, even in a panic.)

jloome

12-22-2010, 12:00 PM

This is the problem. If you are a player looking to get your next contract are you going to wait on TFC because the new coach might like you. Or go sign with a team that can make you a definite offer?

This overcomplicates things; it's MLS and the pay is shit. If your agent can get you a better deal overseas, you always take it, regardless of the FO situation.

Section 117

12-22-2010, 12:10 PM

Translation: internal politicking is fucking the whole thing up because individuals already with the company are angling for jobs they shouldn't have, potentially delaying the rest of the process.

And I'm the OPTIMIST around here.

(Nah, I don't know. But really: hiring a guy with no experience as a gm is just not a prudent move, ever, even in a panic.)

Actually this statement is completely false.... The problem is that we have hockey people runing this team. If JK turned around and advised to keep status quo would the hire ups even contimplate this??? Or would they make a change for teh sake of making a change? IMO we should keep them all in palce and remove the interm tag.. I can do Earl's job he is not the one who identifies the talent all he has to do is get the contracts signed and know the MLS rules. Nick and Danny or who ever would be the ones evaluating talent and deciding who fits into their system. The problem is Upper Managemnet is use to North Amnercian style FO and look what MO did.

Beach_Red

12-22-2010, 12:14 PM

TFCRegina

12-22-2010, 12:16 PM

Sometimes the kind of skills it takes to survive and prosper in a Machiavellian place like MLSE could serve a GM very well.

Except if you're Mo Johnston.

Beach_Red

12-22-2010, 12:27 PM

Except if you're Mo Johnston.

Well, clearly he didn't have those skills. Why would anyone have expected him to, from his two weeks in NY?

But this is why people don't want to see th team continue to be run by people with no experience. Maybe they're really good, but that's a leap of faith.

Imagine the office politics at MLSE and even at TFC? Mo was clearly in over his head from the very beginning. Notice how no one else from the corporate structure is out of work now?

Waggy

12-22-2010, 12:34 PM

Actually this statement is completely false.... The problem is that we have hockey people runing this team. If JK turned around and advised to keep status quo would the hire ups even contimplate this??? Or would they make a change for teh sake of making a change? IMO we should keep them all in palce and remove the interm tag.. I can do Earl's job he is not the one who identifies the talent all he has to do is get the contracts signed and know the MLS rules. Nick and Danny or who ever would be the ones evaluating talent and deciding who fits into their system. The problem is Upper Managemnet is use to North Amnercian style FO and look what MO did.

Ya they're great at running that hockey team....

into the ground

TFCRegina

12-22-2010, 12:37 PM

Actually this statement is completely false.... The problem is that we have hockey people runing this team. If JK turned around and advised to keep status quo would the hire ups even contimplate this??? Or would they make a change for teh sake of making a change? IMO we should keep them all in palce and remove the interm tag.. I can do Earl's job he is not the one who identifies the talent all he has to do is get the contracts signed and know the MLS rules. Nick and Danny or who ever would be the ones evaluating talent and deciding who fits into their system. The problem is Upper Managemnet is use to North Amnercian style FO and look what MO did.

The "North American" style FO is actually what many of the successful continental European clubs use. England is generally the exception to the rule in the sense that the Manager is god at the club.

Section 117

12-22-2010, 12:41 PM

The "North American" style FO is actually what many of the successful continental European clubs use. England is generally the exception to the rule in the sense that the Manager is god at the club.

Actually not really you have a technical director and or a gm. Between them and the coach they decide on the players it is not just one or the other. The coach identifies the players and tells the TD or GM make it happen. Or the TD or GM says to teh coach I think player x would look playing your system what do you think.

IMO for TFC if you keep Earl you have to rely on the coaches to get players as they have the international contacts and are probably better off judging talent

P-NUTZ

12-22-2010, 12:43 PM

coaching experience and a proven track record preferred please.

this is a very serious turning point in this young franchise.

cannot f-this one up.

DangerRed

12-22-2010, 12:48 PM

Xmas is this weekend. How much you want to bet we don't have a new coach in place before then?

mastermixer

12-22-2010, 12:50 PM

A coach can figure out what is missing from a team and advise the GM, but looking for good talent to fit in the MLS under caps and such is not easy. Its much easier to find talent with a deep wallet like on EPL teams, which is why the GM/Coach combination works over there, not as much effort needed (plus they prob have a ton of behind the scenes guys too, something we don't)
I think we need a GM that is able to find the talent that the coach is looking for, or why not hire a team of scouts to work under the GM as well.

Sweeper

12-22-2010, 01:03 PM

Xmas is this weekend. How much you want to bet we don't have a new coach in place before then?

Can we line up a news source to publicize the fact that Klinsmann and the front office are full of shit? Assuming they don't come through by Sat. of course. Hoping Klinsmann doesn't lose my respect.

DangerRed

12-22-2010, 01:19 PM

Saturday is next to impossible. That's two more business days after today, and Friday virtually no one is going to be at work.

The following week is also essentially a writeoff because everyone's on holidays. That pushes us into the New Year for sure.

All we have so far to show for this "dramatic overhaul" of the team that we're undertaking is Jurgen Klinsman's consulting contract and Nate Sturgis.

I was pretty excited and optimistic when this was first announced, but there's been nothing since dead air since then.

Anyone else starting to get worried?

TFCRegina

12-22-2010, 01:23 PM

Super Cereal

12-22-2010, 02:28 PM

Ya they're great at running that hockey team....

into the ground
The problem isn't hockey people, that's BS. The problem is the people are incompetent, regardless of the sport.

But go ahead, blame hockey.

__wowza

12-22-2010, 03:17 PM

Nope. I'm not.

Things take time. Relax. The season doesn't start til March, and the camp opens in January for evaluations and trials. They'll have someone in place by then.

january is in a little less than 2 weeks, and i'd like to think our new coach and GM are going to be around before then to set up how training and trials are going to be run.

Oldtimer

12-22-2010, 03:18 PM

Anyone else starting to get worried?

yep.

I think we're all worried.

gracos

12-22-2010, 03:21 PM

I am thinking that 2011-12 is going to be our worst season yet. I want to be proved wrong, as does everyone else, here, i assume

mastermixer

12-22-2010, 03:48 PM

I'll give them until Jan 14, which is a couple of weeks before training camp. After that I'll have to agree with the post above.

gtaguy

12-22-2010, 03:50 PM

got a feeling were going to stay with dasovic, and some report will come out of the F.O stating that the best coach was at tfc all along..

Oldtimer

12-22-2010, 03:57 PM

I am thinking that 2011-12 is going to be our worst season yet. I want to be proved wrong, as does everyone else, here, i assume

Well Mo didn't even start bringing in players until March last year, so if someone is brought in in January and starts bringing in players pronto, that's a 2 month improvement.

dantdot

12-22-2010, 04:01 PM

I can haz coach? :(

rocker

12-22-2010, 04:16 PM

I am thinking that 2011-12 is going to be our worst season yet. I want to be proved wrong, as does everyone else, here, i assume

I don't think it can get worse than the 25 points of 2007.... and remember... we get 4 extra games to ensure we stay above 25!!! ;) ;)

Beach_Red

12-22-2010, 04:19 PM

I don't think it can get worse than the 25 points of 2007.... and remember... we get 4 extra games to ensure we stay above 25!!! ;) ;)

But there are more teams to finish below. I'm just glad MLS isn't a single table, it feels like next season we're going to be very far from the top.

rocker

12-22-2010, 04:24 PM

But there are more teams to finish below. I'm just glad MLS isn't a single table, it feels like next season we're going to be very far from the top.

and two more playoff spots to chase and keep us in it to the last week... MLS knows how to even it all out.

Pigfynn

12-22-2010, 04:26 PM

They're adding two playoff spots next year?

rocker

12-22-2010, 04:31 PM

They're adding two playoff spots next year?

yup.. 10 of 18 make it.

34 games.. balanced sked.

Pigfynn

12-22-2010, 05:00 PM

^^That's a mistake by MLS if true. They should keep it at eight for now and go to 10 when there's 20 teams.

DangerRed

12-22-2010, 05:20 PM

And meanwhile all we see on the TFC website is some bullshit three part series on the struggles of Canadian soccer.

Tick tock...

Edit: and if you ever wondered why the 24th Minute took it easy on MLSE, an interesting fact to note is that the author of the story is none other than Duane Rollins.

Chevy

12-22-2010, 05:53 PM

I'll give them until Jan 14, which is a couple of weeks before training camp. After that I'll have to agree with the post above.

+1. Everyone needs a little more patience here.

This decision will guide the club for the next two seasons at the VERY least. Why be hasty with it (see Johnston, Mo)? In the best case, this could set us up for the next ten years.

I think spending more than 90 days making it is perfectly acceptable.

trane

12-22-2010, 07:25 PM

Yes, let's hope there is actually a plan in place. I just read in the news thread it's less than 90 day to the start of the season - and realized it's more than 90 days since the coach and GM were fired. So we're more than halfway with no news. Maybe that's good, maybe now the team is being run a little more professionally and we don't have to put up with all those, "We're about to sign someone," quotes (if we ignore the, "A new manager will be in place by Christmas," and that isn't a sign of things not changing at all).

Inter will not fire Benitez, untill they find a replacement. TFC will fire everyone with seemingly no plan as to what to do next.

trane

12-22-2010, 07:26 PM

+1. Everyone needs a little more patience here.

This decision will guide the club for the next two seasons at the VERY least. Why be hasty with it (see Johnston, Mo)? In the best case, this could set us up for the next ten years.

I think spending more than 90 days making it is perfectly acceptable.

Patience? Should not the search for a replacment have started the moment you started thinking about firing the last one? That would seem like the reasonable and professional thing to do.

Beach_Red

12-22-2010, 07:32 PM

Patience? Should not the search for a replacment have started the moment you started thinking about firing the last one? That would seem like the reasonable and professional thing to do.

Yeah, how long was it between the firing of the coach and GM and the hiring of the consultant?

For that matter, why fire the coach and GM during the season, why not just hire the consultant and let him evaluate everything?

If there was a plan here it's hard to see.

trane

12-22-2010, 07:40 PM

^ You know I agree 100%.

jimiv

12-22-2010, 09:06 PM

Xmas is this weekend. How much you want to bet we don't have a new coach in place before then?

Maybe Klinsman follows the Julian Calendar, which means he has till January 7th.

:D

Oldtimer

12-23-2010, 10:51 AM

from an article by Duane Rollins:

Some fans are beginning to worry. There is concern that TFC’s failure to have a management team in place is hampering the club’s ability to sign players.

However, MLSE executive vice president and COO Tom Anselmi preaches patience. He says that it’s most important that TFC make the right hire, not the quick one.

“We continue to focus on finding the right candidate to lead the team and will announce something as soon as possible,” he wrote via e-mail.

At least one MLS expert agrees. Fox Soccer’s Ives Galarcep says that TFC’s manager search has not reached the panic stage just yet.

"It's not unheard of for teams to run their searches for new head coaches well into January, and while it isn't ideal, it can keep from being a handicap if the team has some sort of scouting infrastructure in place," Galarcep said.

Toronto has been active scouting this fall, with Danny Dichio making the rounds during the NCAA tournament.

Galarcep also pointed out that the New York Red Bulls did not announce Hans Backe as the new manager until the week of the 2010 MLS SuperDraft. The Red Bulls interim management staff ran the draft and were still able to grab Rookie of the Year finalist Tim Ream with the first pick of the second round.

“You could argue that Toronto bought itself some time by trading away its first-round pick, thus placing less emphasis on the draft this time around,” Galarcep said.

Galarcep argues that there isn’t much of a difference between hiring a new manager before Christmas or in late January. As with Anselmi, he says that only matters that the Reds get it right.

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?831-He-never-said-which-Christmas

menefreghista

12-23-2010, 11:01 AM

Classic Rollins. Always looking for an angle to defend the FO.

Sure NYRB were successful despite waiting a long time to hire Backe, but that does not mean that sort of action will work all the time.

Why wouldn't you want more time to prepare?

trane

12-23-2010, 11:05 AM

So maybe the later we hire the better?????

Ossington Mental Youth

12-23-2010, 11:06 AM

So maybe the later we hire the better?????
could be, gotta say im nervous although my hopes are still high.
id definitely believe what 117 said before about majority of candidates being underwhelming

v00d00daddy

12-23-2010, 11:16 AM

Beach_Red

12-23-2010, 11:26 AM

TFC have a management team in place, doing the job now. What we're talking about is adding a boss to an already operating workforce. A very tricky thing to do. If it's a boss with no MLS experience he'll have a staff of guys (Cochrane, Dichio, probably Daso) with MLS experience. If it is a guy with MLS experience he'll have to have had some real success to give him authority.

So, yeah, I guess they put themselves in a position where it's going to take a long time.

Darlofletch

12-23-2010, 11:44 AM

I dislike Anselmi as much as the next guy but i agree with the idea that hiring the right person is more important than hiring someone soon for the sake of the upcoming year.

If we suck again this year because we're unprepared due to a lack of coach/gm BUT we get the right guy(s) down the line...so be it.

I'd prefer both but that doesn't look promising.

I want to believe, I really do, but I'm finding it harder and harder the more time goes by.

Maybe that's what the price freeze is all about. I don't really think it's about saying sorry for what happened, I always thought it was a pre-emptive bargaining chip for when we suck in 2011.

My initial thought was that we'll obviously have a new regime in, and the FO was preparing to give him plenty of time to build a long term winner, and thus were ready to have the team suck for a year if necessary, which frankly I'd be ok with

Now I'm beginning to think that it's not aboput giving the new guy time, it's about giving them time, and that it's going to be a long time before we get anyone in, with earl and jimmy and co running the show until then.

Section 117

12-23-2010, 11:55 AM

At the end of the day IF TFC decides to bring a coach from overseas or from the US, they will be a coach that doesn't have either a great track record or have no experience. The reason I state this is who from Europe is going to leave their job to come to the MLS or if they are unemployed there is a reason for them being so.

From my understanding some of the coaches that have been looked at start off doing well and as they put their influence on the club the results slide. Kind of like our last coach Preki. So really what good does that do for us?

IMO I think we should keep status quo. Danny and Daso have contacts all over the world and they can evaluate the talent needed to build a quality club. Plus you keep the continuity with the players that are still here as they know what system they want them to play. Hiring a coach for the sake of hiring a coach just to satisfy the masses (us) is wrong and has been the problem with all of MLSE sports teams.

v00d00daddy

12-23-2010, 01:24 PM

IMO I think we should keep status quo. Danny and Daso have contacts all over the world and they can evaluate the talent needed to build a quality club. Plus you keep the continuity with the players that are still here as they know what system they want them to play. Hiring a coach for the sake of hiring a coach just to satisfy the masses (us) is wrong and has been the problem with all of MLSE sports teams.

I see what you're saying here but what good is keeping continuity with the players and style if:

a) (some) of the players are the wrong players

AND

b) the style implemented by the GROSSLY inexperienced staff is the wrong style.

I don't know anymore. It's all getting hard to stomach...and the season, which I'm sure will be painful, hasn't even started yet.

Just wait (and it WILL happen) until we lose to one of the expansion teams.

Fuck me....it will get ugly.

Whoop

12-23-2010, 01:28 PM

Same old, same old.

Are we going into another season without making any player moves?

At this rate it will be mid January before any announcement is going to be made and then the management team will have four weeks to scramble to sign guys.

Whoop

12-23-2010, 01:30 PM

Maybe we should wait until June to hire a coach/GM.

Ossington Mental Youth

12-23-2010, 01:40 PM

trane

12-23-2010, 01:58 PM

Maybe we should wait until June to hire a coach/GM.

June??? What is the rush???? Maybe we let the season start without anybody, or let the present people try their hand. Who cares? As long as the supporters get to sing and drink....it is all good. Is that not what football is about after all??

swan

12-23-2010, 02:01 PM

i hear Rafa is free...

:rofl::smilielol5:

TFCRegina

12-23-2010, 02:33 PM

i hear Rafa is free...

:rofl::smilielol5:

If we ever get that bumbling oaf as a manager, I'll stop following TFC for the 3 months it takes to fire him.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 07:39 PM

right now - check your watch and the calendar: DECEMBER 23rd, 7:30pm

now look here: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/12/07/dobson_klinsmann_vision/

okay, now back to me.

At any rate, here's what we learned that you might want to know:
The new coach is coming soon. His guess is it will happen before Christmas. It better. So unless we get an early Christmas present....
Either Klinsman was a) giving us incorrect information b) given incorrect info himself c) full of it.

I'd even like to hear the statement "sorry guys, we haven't found anyone good yet, so we'd rather wait"

but what are we going to hear in the next 29 hours? anything?

---

:scarf:

Toronto FC Supporters - The 'Mushrooms' of the MLS.
Musrooms are kept in the dark and fed nothing but bullshit

TFCRegina

12-23-2010, 07:41 PM

^ Someone watched the Departed recently. :)

Smokecell

12-23-2010, 07:43 PM

or d) taking his time to make sure he doesn't bring in another failure

I'm fine with waiting if it means we get the perfect guy for the job.

razor787

12-23-2010, 07:43 PM

with absolutely no rumors, its simply not going to happen. I dont know what is taking so long exactly, but I dont think Klinsmann was lieing. He may have thought that he could get someone, but had things holding him up, or just couldnt get a coach that is qualified enough, but also wants to live in toronto, as well as keep the coaching staff we have.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 07:44 PM

^ Someone watched the Departed recently. :)

Not since it was in the theatres.
Side note about The Departed....

last year, when we all shipped off to Boston..... the team got killed.

does anyone think we'll NOT get another 5-1 slaughter to start this season?
I was at the first boston away trip where we got slaughtered 4-1. Not much changes.

TFCRegina

12-23-2010, 07:45 PM

Not since it was in the theatres.
Side note about The Departed....

last year, when we all shipped off to Boston..... the team got killed.

does anyone think we'll NOT get another 5-1 slaughter to start this season?
I was at the first boston away trip where we got slaughtered 4-1. Not much changes.

Ah, I watched it last night, and the mushroom comment was in that movie I believe. My mistake. :D

menefreghista

12-23-2010, 07:45 PM

He wasn't lying. Just getting peoples hopes up.

He should have just not said anything. The second you give a date, even with a qualifier, people are going to be expecting something to happen on that date. If you miss it, people will be disappointed.

bgnewf

12-23-2010, 07:46 PM

I think watching this again it was more of a throwaway line from Klinsmann. First couple of days in early January we will have someone in place....

Five or six days is not going to be a make or break is it Mike?

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 07:47 PM

or d) taking his time to make sure he doesn't bring in another failure

I'm fine with waiting if it means we get the perfect guy for the job.

then he could...... Tell us that

that was kinda my point when I said "I'd even like to hear the statement "sorry guys, we haven't found anyone good yet, so we'd rather wait"

But if I told my boss that something might be in place by Christmas, and couldn't make the deadline -- I'd be making sure to get them ready.

here's the real questions:

What are we hearing from our club?

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 07:49 PM

Five or six days is not going to be a make or break is it Mike?

not at all Tim, but if we told our girlfriends about a fancy dinner on Valentine's Day, and they took them out on St.Paddy's.....

we'd be in the doghouse, no?

menefreghista

12-23-2010, 07:50 PM

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 07:52 PM

oh and Newf..... it's not there's a history of being oversold and undelivered.

right?

oh. wait.

Smokecell

12-23-2010, 07:56 PM

then he could...... Tell us that

that was kinda my point when I said "I'd even like to hear the statement "sorry guys, we haven't found anyone good yet, so we'd rather wait"

But if I told my boss that something might be in place by Christmas, and couldn't make the deadline -- I'd be making sure to get them ready.

here's the real questions:

What are we hearing from our club?

The fact of the matter is he owes us nothing, the man is just doing his job...nowhere in his deal does it state he has to meet "deadlines" (and I say that lightly) that are imposed and enforced by supporters. His job is to make TFC a success on the pitch so let's let him do that and not criticize his decision process. If TFC ends up sucking this year again then so be it you can have at calling Klinsmann a liar all you want, but until then this is just an unnecessary over reaction.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 07:56 PM

If you miss it, people will be disappointed.

What will disappoint me is another year like the last 4.

we've been fed enough false hope over the last 4 years to choke an elephant.

Time to own up.

Flipityflu

12-23-2010, 07:56 PM

well, it was a guess right? he didn't promise anything according to that article, so i'm not sure why he would be accused of being a liar.

still, you can't tell me this is a surprise. this is how the club has operated every off season.

menefreghista

12-23-2010, 07:59 PM

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 07:59 PM

If TFC ends up sucking this year again then so be it you can have at calling Klinsmann a liar all you want, but until then this is just an unnecessary over reaction.

Ahh... but I never called him a liar. He still has 26 hours before his statement is proven to be incorrect.

that's my concern..... that we don't have a fuckin' coach! does anyone else fell a subtle sinking sensation? Like the water is getting higher? Like we've seen this before?

Beach_Red

12-23-2010, 08:00 PM

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:03 PM

still, you can't tell me this is a surprise. this is how the club has operated every off season.

that's why I'm pissed bro !!
I want to be..... for once.... pleasantly surprised by this club.

Just like all you guys, I love this fucking club, and I'm tired of...

what's that term.....

http://thesnee.typepad.com/.a/6a01287651dd4a970c013485f02616970c-320wi

christmas = carrot

Smokecell

12-23-2010, 08:03 PM

Ahh... but I never called him a liar. He still has 26 hours before his statement is proven to be incorrect.

that's my concern..... that we don't have a fuckin' coach! does anyone else fell a subtle sinking sensation? Like the water is getting higher? Like we've seen this before?

If tomorrow was the superdraft or the first day of camp I could see a reason for concern...but thats just not the case

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:06 PM

just a refresher:

Toronto FC fired MoJo and Preki on SEPTEMBER 14th
(yeah, it was only like 2 years late for MoJo)

that's like 15 weeks ago.

are we better now than we were then? (other than simply because we cut a lot of dead weight?)

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:08 PM

If tomorrow was the superdraft or the first day of camp I could see a reason for concern...but thats just not the case

and what does our history dictate?

have we EVER started a season with a full squad? (no, not even close)

even last year when we had the best representation of a team yet, we got killed by New England on our opener.

menefreghista

12-23-2010, 08:09 PM

Another thing to consider is who can we hire in the next week(s) that wasn't available now or earlier?

Beach_Red

12-23-2010, 08:10 PM

The fact of the matter is he owes us nothing, the man is just doing his job...nowhere in his deal does it state he has to meet "deadlines" (and I say that lightly) that are imposed and enforced by supporters. His job is to make TFC a success on the pitch so let's let him do that and not criticize his decision process. If TFC ends up sucking this year again then so be it you can have at calling Klinsmann a liar all you want, but until then this is just an unnecessary over reaction.

There must be something in the consultant contract about deliverables? MLSE are professionals, they've dealt with consultants before, certainly there were specific terms laid out with some dates? We know the contract ends before the season starts, but could they really have not set any other dates?

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:15 PM

Another thing to consider is who can we hire in the next week(s) that wasn't available now or earlier?

they shouldn't have started looking for him today.

If kilnsmann said 'before christmas' then he must have had an idea of what was on the radar. Like Beach Red said, consultants have defined milestones. 'Feeling better' is the job of a therapist or a chiropractor, not of a sports professional.

Flipityflu

12-23-2010, 08:18 PM

that's why I'm pissed bro !!
I want to be..... for once.... pleasantly surprised by this club.

Just like all you guys, I love this fucking club, and I'm tired of...

what's that term.....

http://thesnee.typepad.com/.a/6a01287651dd4a970c013485f02616970c-320wi

christmas = carrot

i hear you Parkie...i gave up my season ticket this year. i fucking hate carrots, and thats all we got in 4 years of ever increasing prices. i have the benefit of having a life long love of my home town club, so I will just end up spending the money on their merchandise instead of TFC's. That how i fight the bullshit way this club operates.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:25 PM

i have the benefit of having a life long love of my home town club....

that what hurts me so much.....
I do love this club and have since the second the banner was pulled back and the name was revealed.

I care more for this club than I do for any other club in the world.... and because I care, it's making me ask if the people in charge know what they're doing.

Fact: Toronto has never won a trophy (NCC) or a series (carlsberg cup) against MLS teams.

is this changing anytime soon? I think that if it WAS going to get better, they should be shouting it from the rooftops.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:28 PM

oh right.... I just figured it out.

The PR mastermind of the whole organization isn't with them anymore. Is THAT is why we aren't hearing shit?

(hahaha... low blow, sorry about that one)

Flipityflu

12-23-2010, 08:32 PM

i understand. i know i'm lucky that my support was for another club before Toronto FC.

this organiztion better do something good for those of you who bleed for this club...but don't expect that reward to be on the pitch this season though.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:34 PM

here's a fun fact:

http://thesnee.typepad.com/.a/6a01287651dd4a970c013485f02616970c-320wi

Can we maybe, just maybe.... beat fucking Columbus once in our history? That would be swell.

James17930

12-23-2010, 08:43 PM

^ That's one of my top 3 irks.

Klinnsman shouldn't have said X-mas, for sure.

I have a feeling nothing will happen until on or after Jan. 1st just because of contractual procedures etc. But remember, we do still actually have a coach -- Daso. And we do still technically have a 'GM' who could do anything any other GM could do . . . the main problem right now is the uncertainty of what's going on, and how that is perhaps bogging certain things down.

I definitely share your annoyance, but I do still think we've got a bit of time left. If nothing has been announced one way or the other by mid-Jan, then I think we all really need to seriously, seriously consider the capacity of MLSE to run this club properly.

DOMIN8R

12-23-2010, 08:49 PM

This is one of those rare instances where Sparky is pissed off. Everyone should take note.

I was thinking the same thing last night, Mike. The truth is we don't know F all about the terms under which Soccer Solutions was engaged. But we know that:

JK made a statement that the team should have a coach by Christmas; and
It has been nearly 100 days since we had a permanent coach and manager.
This is not encouraging.

And now....

Cue the media (glass is half empty) and another round of "this thread looks like a good story - we should write one".

Cue the MLSE PR machine (glass is half full) for another round of "something big is coming" let's appease the unwashed.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:58 PM

But remember, we do still actually have a coach -- Daso.

let me reference the Star Article from a few weeks ago...

link to the Star's Story - Secret's from the Leaf's Real Boss (http://thesnee.typepad.com/.a/6a01287651dd4a970c013485f02616970c-320wi)

Peddie us a lightning rod for Leaf and Raptors fans because, by his own admission, he is also accountable for gaffes that affected play on the ice and the hardwood.

“I wished I’d hired the two Brians earlier,” he said of Leafs’ GM Brian Burke and Raps’ GM Bryan Colangelo. “They represent experienced winners and I hired rookies at the GM level — and that’s not something you do in Toronto, not with franchises like the Toronto Maple Leafs.”

I like Nick D, and think he'll make a good coach for a smaller market team,
but just like Richard Peddie says ----> THIS IS TORONTO
we're not some small market city where you can put a rookie in charge.

so where's the announcement? Dominator's right. I'm pissed about it, because I just know I'll have to answer this question 100 times over the holidays - "So Toronto FC, they going to suck again this year?"

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 08:59 PM

Cue the MLSE PR machine (glass is half full) for another....

they have a PR machine?

I thought the rat jumped off because the ship was sinking?

Oldtimer

12-23-2010, 09:00 PM

Parkdale, check the new coach thread, Duane has an explanation from Anselmi about what's going on.

Basically, he's being careful.

He also quotes Ives saying that it's noway near time to panic (and Ives I trust). Don't forget that NY brought in their manager in February, and it didn't hurt them any. It's much more important to get the right guy than to get the quick and easy solution. The Leafs have usually gone quick and easy, we should be glad Anselmi is taking his time.

Lying has nothing to do with it, Klinsmann was just being overly optimistic.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 09:03 PM

Lying has nothing to do with it, Klinsmann was just being overly optimistic.

so if he believed it, it's not a lie?

it's just a mistake, which should be admitted to all of us, preferably though a proper media channel.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 09:05 PM

It's much more important to get the right guy than to get the quick and easy solution.

oh I agree 100% with you there,

but,

have Toronto ever proven to us that they can get the right guy when it counts?

also, if you need an extension on a project, don't you ask BEFORE the day the project is due? I learned that in the 4th grade. You figure these MBAs would know it too.

Oldtimer

12-23-2010, 09:07 PM

so if he believed it, it's not a lie?

it's just a mistake, which should be admitted to all of us, preferably though a proper media channel.

Why?

If he's a couple of weeks off, it's not like its a big deal. The big deal is people's perceptions, not reality.

Oldtimer

12-23-2010, 09:08 PM

have Toronto ever proven to us that they can get the right guy when it counts?

I'm worried too, but it's not quite time to panic.

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 09:09 PM

The big deal is people's perceptions, not reality.

right now, making people perceptions are kinda important.

after all, what else do we have? (answer = squat)

DOMIN8R

12-23-2010, 09:09 PM

they have a PR machine?

I thought the rat jumped off because the ship was sinking?

Apparently, she is/was very nice (if you worked in the FO with her). She just so happened to treat us, individually and collectively, like shit.

But I digress. The SuperDraft is in 3 weeks. And preseason soon after.:(

Parkdale

12-23-2010, 09:19 PM

let me reference the Star Article from a few weeks ago...

link to the Star's Story - Secret's from the Leaf's Real Boss (http://thesnee.typepad.com/.a/6a01287651dd4a970c013485f02616970c-320wi)

Peddie us a lightning rod for Leaf and Raptors fans because, by his own admission, he is also accountable for gaffes that affected play on the ice and the hardwood.

“I wished I’d hired the two Brians earlier,” he said of Leafs’ GM Brian Burke and Raps’ GM Bryan Colangelo. “They represent experienced winners and I hired rookies at the GM level — and that’s not something you do in Toronto, not with franchises like the Toronto Maple Leafs.”

I like Nick D, and think he'll make a good coach for a smaller market team,
but just like Richard Peddie says ----> THIS IS TORONTO
we're not some small market city where you can put a rookie in charge.

so where's the announcement? Dominator's right. I'm pissed about it, because I just know I'll have to answer this question 100 times over the holidays - "So Toronto FC, they going to suck again this year?"

just wanted everyone to see this post.

Rookies are not the answer. That was my point.

Anyway, I'm going to go knock on the sky and listen to the sound.

ag futbol

12-23-2010, 09:34 PM

Don't worry

Pele consulting services has been hired to consult soccer solutions. We will have a solution for our solution in no time.

rocker

12-23-2010, 10:05 PM

so if he believed it, it's not a lie?.

Of course... a lie isn't "something didn't happen according to plan."

A lie would be Klinnsman sitting there saying "we'll have a coach by christmas" while in his head he's thinking "Gerry Dobberson! you naive schmuck, I told Anselmi it would be January! ha ha!"

Waggy

12-23-2010, 10:33 PM

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/12/mariner-emerges-as-candidate-for-toronto-fc-job.html

Right on cue: We supporters whine for a bit, create a thread on the forum questioning the leadership and suddenly words getting around about someone being interested in the job. Though, this is from Ives, so who knows. Maybe theres actually some smoke here

Oldtimer

12-23-2010, 10:43 PM

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/12/mariner-emerges-as-candidate-for-toronto-fc-job.html

Right on cue: We supporters whine for a bit, create a thread on the forum questioning the leadership and suddenly words getting around about someone being interested in the job.

A little bit conspiratorial aren't we?

I suspected Mariner would be a candidate for some time.
It's interesting to have that confirmed that he is interested.

billyfly

12-23-2010, 10:44 PM

^Hmmmm....

Darlofletch

12-23-2010, 10:44 PM

wow, if parkdale's snapped and losing hope then we really are in trouble, you're usually much more optimistic.

Waggy

12-23-2010, 10:50 PM

A little bit conspiratorial aren't we?

I suspected Mariner would be a candidate for some time.
It's interesting to have that confirmed that he is interested.

Just jaded. I assumed he was a candidate for a while too, but his names been thrown around here the past few coaching carrousel's. Word leaking, rumors etc, whatever you want to call it, I'm sick of hearing 'news' like this. It seems that every time the fanbase gets angry, word gets around of who we're 'close to getting', or 'talking to' then we get all excited and... 3 weeks later there's been no news. How about negotiating, coming to a deal and hiring a god damn manager. THEN call the press

Oldtimer

12-23-2010, 11:22 PM

Maybe their 24/7 RPB monitoring crew said, Holy ****, even Parkdale is upset!!!

Get Ives immediately!!!:

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/presidential-hotline-phone_1.jpg

"Ives, its time to write a story!!!!"

... or maybe not. :D

rocker

12-23-2010, 11:30 PM

we're 'close to getting', or 'talking to' then we get all excited and... 3 weeks later there's been no news. How about negotiating, coming to a deal and hiring a god damn manager. THEN call the press

i don't remember anyone saying TFC was close to getting anyone.. LOL.

I mean, rumours go around about potential candidates but that's not surprising that TFC might be talking to a bunch of different guys. I doubt TFC is calling up the press and telling them anything. I think things just leak out from guys like Ives digging into his sources.

DOMIN8R

12-23-2010, 11:33 PM

As sarcastic as you may be Oldtimer - you have to admit that these paterns defy coincidence. A trend is commonly defined as 4 data points on curve moving in the same direction.

Look at the patern(s).

I don't think that you have to be a conspiracy theorist to think this is unusual. Even the most hardened cynic would be find this hard to explain.

Darlofletch

12-23-2010, 11:39 PM

I just finshed watching a christmas carol. It's very tfc. christmas present was the dc and san jose games, christmas future was the crap renewals, they had a change of heart, did consultations, gave some money away. they even hired a boy to go out and buy them the best coach possible.

unfortunately our boy seems to have got lost on the way.

menefreghista

12-23-2010, 11:47 PM

Just jaded. I assumed he was a candidate for a while too, but his names been thrown around here the past few coaching carrousel's. Word leaking, rumors etc, whatever you want to call it, I'm sick of hearing 'news' like this. It seems that every time the fanbase gets angry, word gets around of who we're 'close to getting', or 'talking to' then we get all excited and... 3 weeks later there's been no news. How about negotiating, coming to a deal and hiring a god damn manager. THEN call the press

Yup. Kinda like the Donadoni, Baresi, Queiroz rumours.

We already had the Duane Rollins apology piece on the matter. Now we get the Ives piece with a rumoured candidate.

Waggy

12-23-2010, 11:47 PM

i don't remember anyone saying TFC was close to getting anyone.. LOL.

I mean, rumours go around about potential candidates but that's not surprising that TFC might be talking to a bunch of different guys. I doubt TFC is calling up the press and telling them anything. I think things just leak out from guys like Ives digging into his sources.

Not in this coach/gm hunt, but how many in previous? And how many players? Either way, point being is I hope its true but until I see something concrete I'm not only assuming it's not happening but assuming there's nothing to the rumor. Not disparaging Ives credibility, but his reporting is based on his sources and their accuracy. His sources are insiders, which is how they know things. Someone told him about Mariner, either his camp or ours. Either way someone DID pick up the phone to let Ives know.

And oldtimer, you've seen how things spread from this board before. I'm generally not a conspiracy theorist, but it just seems like good business to keep track of the fanbase and this forum just makes it easy to monitor everyones feelings. MLSE'd be stupid to not be looking. It's free market research and gets WAY better accuracy than cold-calling/emailing forms

FluSH

12-24-2010, 07:47 AM

Oldtimer

12-24-2010, 08:22 AM

And oldtimer, you've seen how things spread from this board before. I'm generally not a conspiracy theorist, but it just seems like good business to keep track of the fanbase and this forum just makes it easy to monitor everyones feelings. MLSE'd be stupid to not be looking. It's free market research and gets WAY better accuracy than cold-calling/emailing forms

Yes, that's totally true. We know that Paul B and some other ML$E employees are on here regularly, and they monitor what is being said. They also do controlled leaks to the media at times.

If the leak to Ives came from TFC staff, it was probably planned a few days ago, though. I find it hard to believe that Parkdale posts his rant, and immediately Ives has a piece... and the two are that closely tied in time. I think its a coincidence.

That being said, we need to have a "healthy skepticism" until someone actually is hired.

ag futbol

12-24-2010, 08:44 AM

maninb

12-24-2010, 08:58 AM

IMO JK actually thought he'd have somebody in place by Xmas....but the candidates he thought he could get told him to get stuffed or wanted too much money....in either case it's not good...

Beach_Red

12-24-2010, 09:05 AM

I don't necessarily dislike Paul Mariner, but wtf, this is what we came up with after 90 days? I think big sawker board could have conducted this GM search if this is what we waited for the entire time.

You have to wonder how much they paid soccer Solutions to come up with the assistant coach of a team that got fewer points in the last three years than TFC...

This seems like a stop-gap rumour. It's hard to see this guy coming into an organization with all the other management people in place and being able to make very many changes.

ensco

12-24-2010, 09:11 AM

That Ives bit was an almost comical plant. Anybody really think Ives was burning the phone lines, late on the night of Dec 23, trying to break the story about TFC's new coach, a story that has been dead for weeks and isn't really that compelling to Ives' core readership?

We're being played, and going in circles. We're back to talking about a coach, instead of talking about a GM. If this board now spends a few days obsessively dissecting Mariner (who may or may not be a good choice, that's not my point), then the PR leak will succeed.

It's about the GM. You're supposed to let the new GM hire the coach. Period.

Ossington Mental Youth

12-24-2010, 09:22 AM

meh, kinda feel like it was a controlled leak but once again i dont think its JK's fault that we have shit options as coach, im sure hes working his hardest. Also i dont think Mariner, who yes had a torrid time at Plymouth would be a bad option, dont forget NE was a powerhouse for a while and they worked with even less than what we had. Id be ok with giving him a go, although I cant help but think theres got to be slightly better options out there.

Please keep in perspective this is a) the mls and b) toronto, we are not going to be signing the likes of Mourinho as coach.

UltraSuperMegaMo

12-24-2010, 09:32 AM

The people running TFC have the guile to use a controlled leak on the internet? They announced a ticket hike just as the team crashed out of the playoffs. No evidence that they're PR geniuses.

BASE

12-24-2010, 09:42 AM

Mariner is an underwhelming choice in my opinion. While he and Steve Nicol were very successful in identifying talent at the NCAA level - Parkhurst, Dempsey etc... they had a solid core of top MLS talent in Sharlie Joseph, Steve Ralston, and Taylor Twellman to lead the charge. Other than De Ro and Frei TFC just doesn't have the talent where adding 1 or 2 players coming in will make a big difference.

I will state the obvious here but if TFC don't become a contender this year, and achieve this by playing a good brand of soccer (vs. Preki Ball or for that matter New England Revs soccer) the fall of 2010 will look like a walk in the park for TFC management. I'm not content with the team making the playoffs as a stated goal...the team has to begin to play a good brand of football which has not been evident at BMO other than a few decent games here or there.

Regards and Merry Christmas!!!