FUCK THAT x2! - Dero Close to Signing with San Jose. . .

[Technorgasm]

Im not saying how I know, or who I know. . but. . everyone needs to brace themselves for this news. . . it is very, very very Close.

and unless MLSE recognizes Dero for his contribution and gives him what he wants, he will be in 'Quakes colours next season. . .read - DP spot.

[Stouffville_RPB]

jerk

[sidvan]

he is still under contract i believe so unless they trade him for all the cash and players he says he is worth....

[Stouffville_RPB]

Let's trade him for that young midfielder they have... what's his name? Oh yeah Sam Cronin.

[SQUIRREL]

That's sad that the only thing he see's is dollar signs.....Don't get me wrong, he's been our best player bar none, but he's complained about money since he got here. I'm going to miss him and the heart he plays with but honestly could he not be more humble??? He's all about CREAM (Cash Rules Everything Around Me), Money isn't everything (it means alot, but not everything) were you have to complain about it all the time. If he just played out his contract and then asked for more money I think he would have more people on his side, If not everybody.

Well if the news is true, good luck to him. I wish no ill feelings. I hope we pick up a big name/ scorer to replace him.

[razor787]

Let's trade him for that young midfielder they have... what's his name? Oh yeah Sam Cronin.

I would not mind at all to see DeRo leave, and cronin come in. We would even be able to get some allocation, or another player thrown in as well. This doesnt bother me as much as it should.

[Oldtimer]

A good GM could certainly build a solid team without D$Ro. There certainly seem to be locker-room issues with his demand$ (cf. who did the players vote MVP?).

Would it upset me to see him leave? You bet?

Would it be a disaster? No player is bigger than the badge.

[TOBOR !]

Figures. And when the dust settles who'll be left standing ? Number 6. The Prisoner. Bah.

[SQUIRREL]

A good GM could certainly build a solid team without D$Ro. There certainly seem to be locker-room issues with his demand$. (cf. who did the players vote MVP?).

Would it upset me to see him leave? You bet?

Would it be a disaster? No player is bigger than the badge.


SO TRUE.

[Oblio2]

I like Dero but the shit-show last year with the after goal bullshit was too much.
Our team needs to improve. Is Dero tradeable? I'd say so. As long as we improve on the return....why not. We've done fuck all with him

[mastermixer]

If he was making 5 million a year and complained... I would hold it against him. However, the guy is making $400k and wants to take it to the next level, I honestly can't blame the guy. He could be a little more discreet about it though.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Sorry but where does this trust in management to replace our leading goal scorer come from?

Pay him. Get a couple veteran backs and a wing. A DP striker.

We've made some proper subtractions now I want to see them buy enough players to field a team please.

[lips]

I have this feeling that he is the trouble in the locker room. Having a coworker always complaining about his pay can not be good. He is our best player and should have DP $ but don’t bitch you signed the contract.

If the news is true and we pick up a good replacement I’m ok with that.

[denime]

This is not even a rumor and we are already getting excited.Techno be careful with info like this,it wil get you baned eventualy for spaming ;-)

[Wagner]

De Ro is a Stud with no Support.

Look at what he's done with no one around him.

If your boss made a promise to pay you...and didn't....despite excellent performance, you'd be angry too.

[Sweeper]

This would be the time to get maximum ROI for him if another team is willing to trade for some decent youth talent and some cash. Don't think he is a great leader or good for the locker room although we need someone that can take penalties and set pieces.

[jazzy]

having met him, I hope him the best, he's canadian therefore always undervalued, and he's suppossed to what give up making huge sums for our sakes??? you're talking big bucks here, this all about Moe, again, We watch Julian become huge millionaire while who delivers the goals..........how long does one enjoy taking it from behind?? Cause your boss is a jerk..... Yallop saying in his view he's MLS MVP..........I'll harshly judge MLSE if & only if this is true

[Cashcleaner]

Sorry but where does this trust in management to replace our leading goal scorer come from?

Pay him. Get a couple veteran backs and a wing. A DP striker.

We've made some proper subtractions now I want to see them buy enough players to field a team please.

Exactly! DeRo is one of the very few TFC players that have turned out to exceed or even match our expectations, and knowing that, what are the chances we'll land someone with even more value for money? Let's pay the man and get him back on the pitch.

We are getting far too hung up over the cheque-writing incident. It's especially humourous when you figure that almost everyone here would agree he should be getting more for his efforts!

[torontocelt]

Sorry but where does this trust in management to replace our leading goal scorer come from?

Pay him. Get a couple veteran backs and a wing. A DP striker.

We've made some proper subtractions now I want to see them buy enough players to field a team please.

Plus one trillion.

Anyone happy to see our best player leave is crazy. He has pretty much carried the offensive part of our team since he got here. He is worth DP money, he contributes way more than DeGuzman or Mista. If I were him I would leave too, if he can make a ton of money elsewhere with people that feel he deserves that money then why shouldn't he, he only has a few years left in the game. It is a shame for him that his Toronto employers dont value him enough to give him what he deserves. DeRo has done more than enough for this club to leave with his head held high and the respect of the supporters, I am just sad that he is effectively being forced to move by a management team that is once again about to get a decision very wrong.

[ManUtd4ever]

I never condoned DeRo's ill advised gesture but his dissent was aimed at the front office, not his teammates, and certainly not the supporters. Any speculation questioning his dedication to the team is unsubstantiated. Subtract DeRo's offensive contributions from TFC's anemic attack and this club would have have been an even bigger joke than it was the last two years. The last time I checked, 15 goals is not that easy to replace in the MLS. Elevating him to a DP level contract makes sense for all parties involved as it will provide more cap space to rebuild the squad.

Lest we forget, the only semblence of success TFC has achieved in it's short history rests primarily on the shoulders of one Dwayne DeRosario...

[kaos197O]

Great pick up by San Jose if true. He will surely give them what they were looking to get from Geovanni and more. They will be a better team with him there and for less than what they were paying Geo.

As for letting him go, we don't know what all has transpired between management and himself but if they do let him go they will have had good reason. People come and go, good players and bad players but when all involved are unhappy, it's time to move on.

[Roogsy]

jerk


Yes he is. A jerk for giving us 31 goals over 2 seasons when no one else has come even close. A jerk for giving 110% in each game for us. A jerk for almost single-handedly winning us our first trophy. A jerk for wanting the team to honour their word to him.

Yes a jerk.

And people around here didn't believe me when I said there were other teams interested in him. :rolleyes:

So...who is going to score goals for us next year if he leaves? Because this team has shown an incredible ability to bring in good talent at a good price right?

[Parkdale]

Lest we forget, the only semblence of success TFC has achieved in it's short history rests primarily (ENTIRELY) on the shoulders of one Dwayne DeRosario...


at least offensively. Frei has kept us from losing many a game, but DeRo has been the guy to win them.

[jabbronies]

So...who is going to score goals for us next year if he leaves?

Dan Gargan ;)

[Oblio2]

Yes he is. A jerk for giving us 31 goals over 2 seasons when no one else has come even close. A jerk for giving 110% in each game for us. A jerk for almost single-handedly winning us our first trophy. A jerk for wanting the team to honour their word to him.

Yes a jerk.

And people around here didn't believe me when I said there were other teams interested in him. :rolleyes:

So...who is going to score goals for us next year if he leaves? Because this team has shown an incredible ability to bring in good talent at a good price right?

Andy Fucking Welsh....wait...What?

[Parkdale]

A jerk for giving 110% in each game for us.


you know you're stretching that one a bit. He has checked out on occasion. The occasions are rare, but it has happened.

[Section 117]

No offense to Dero, but he isn't going to get DP from from San Jose. MLS will not let it happen. It will set a bad precedent with in the league causing salary cost to spiral out of control.

If they give Dero DP money what do they do with list any player that is on a teams roster who is there best player. ie Chad marshall, Sharlie Joseph, etc...

[Wagner]

i'll excuse the 80% games after the 150% he gave in Montreal the night of the miracle.

or that DC game where he just would not be denied scoring.

I think it would average out to about 110%

[Parkdale]

who is there best player. ie Chad marshall, Sharlie Joseph, etc...


I've always wanted to see him on TFC. Easily one of the top 3 centers in the league.

[Roogsy]

If he was making 5 million a year and complained... I would hold it against him. However, the guy is making $400k and wants to take it to the next level, I honestly can't blame the guy. He could be a little more discreet about it though.

Let me put it to you this way...what would discretion have gotten him? Nowhere.

By making it public, at least we the public knew what his beef was and won't be surprised if he does leave and we will know why. Then it's up to you to decide if it's his fault or the teams.

If he had kept it private, and then left, would it not have surprised you? Would you not then have been left in the dark and simply considered him a mercenary for picking up and leaving "all of a sudden" when in fact it was not the case?

He was in a lose-lose situation here. But keeping it private for the sake of keeping it private benefits no one except of course some fan's weird sense of appropriateness.

[Roogsy]

you know you're stretching that one a bit. He has checked out on occasion. The occasions are rare, but it has happened.


Silly argument. Every player checks out every now and then. It's the nature of the game. I could even blaspheme on this board and point to plays where Danny didn't chase down a ball or gave up on a play. Name me one player in this league that does not employ a strategy of conservative energy management during a game? The point here is which player on TFC plays with more fire and determination? I'd like to see names.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Uh Cronin would not even be remotely close to a good replacement for DeRo. Sad to see him go and its a bit retarded but if dudes only in it for the money, its gotta happen.

[Globetrotter]

If your boss made a promise to pay you...and didn't....despite excellent performance, you'd be angry too.

Does your work have a salary cap for the entire company? What about per position?

The DP spot was not intended for guys like Dero. Dero is making top dollar for where he is. He needs to learn that, or go somewhere that doesn't have the restrictions... ie, if you're so good that you deserve more money, go to Europe.

[phonzo]

but theres also rumours he'll get a DP slot in TO...soooooooooooo amagad offseason rumour mill drama!

[Roogsy]

Does your work have a salary cap for the entire company? What about per position?

The DP spot was not intended for guys like Dero. Dero is making top dollar for where he is. He needs to learn that, or go somewhere that doesn't have the restrictions... ie, if you're so good that you deserve more money, go to Europe.


Your arguments are lacking evidence. Regardless of what the DP spot was intended for, there are no rules for using them. Otherwise, I am sure we would not be stuck with JDG.

As for salary caps...your argument is completely undone because in this salary cap environment, the DP rule is designed to do exactly that, circumvent the salary cap. Therefore, any team who wants to exceed the cap simply applies the DP rule. As we did with Mista and JDG. With a payroll of over 4million last year, there is no argument that the cap is the reason any team should not be able to sign a player they wish to have on their roster at the price they choose to pay.

[jabbronies]

Name me one player in this league that does not employ a strategy of conservative energy management during a game?

Dan Gargan.

As for Dero leaving. Anyone who is happy to see him go must be content to have the chance to see this team set a league record of 0 goals this year. But seriously, how can you be ok with him leaving? Locker room tension? Anyone brings that topic up must know a lot about what really went on in that dressing room. So please fill the rest of us in because it may shed light on why he needs to go.

[Parkdale]

Silly argument. Every player checks out every now and then. It's the nature of the game. .


so why would you state that DeRo 'gives 110% every game' knowing that it's not the case for any player?


sounds like you're just enjoying a windup.

[Section 117]

I have heard that multiple teams have called asking for Dero.....

Problem is that what these teams are offering is equivelant to bag of soccer balls and some shiny pylons.... If the right deal came along I can see TFC getting rid of Dero. No one person is bigger then the team and if another team is willing to give up 2 to 3 players that will be starters and make an impact it will get done

[Cashcleaner]

Let me put it to you this way...what would discretion have gotten him? Nowhere.

By making it public, at least we the public knew what his beef was and won't be surprised if he does leave and we will know why. Then it's up to you to decide if it's his fault or the teams.

If he had kept it private, and then left, would it not have surprised you? Would you not then have been left in the dark and simply considered him a mercenary for picking up and leaving "all of a sudden" when in fact it was not the case?

He was in a lose-lose situation here. But keeping it private for the sake of keeping it private benefits no one except of course some fan's weird sense of appropriateness.

You know what? Fuck being discreet! Seriously, I don't want anymore of these secrets and whispering campaigns going on at the club anymore.

Back when Mo was in charge, people HATED how tight-lipped the club was. But here we have an issue brought out in the open and it's not cool for some? Maybe if more players and staff were as open as DeRo is, we the fans would have a better understanding on what exactly happens on Planet TFC.

You've hit the nail on the head with that post, Roogsy. I'm had it with this top-secret bullshit.

[Roogsy]

but theres also rumours he'll get a DP slot in TO...soooooooooooo amagad offseason rumour mill drama!

Since there is no MLS games at the moment, this section will only be filled with rumours during the offseason until real signings come in and then it will be filled with speculation as to the quality of the signings. Either way, if you want to talk about actual football games, the International Section is the only way to go. Join us in the Barcelona thread to talk about the thrashing of Madrid! :D

[Roogsy]

so why would you state that DeRo 'gives 110% every game' knowing that it's not the case for any player?


sounds like you're just enjoying a windup.

Because 110% is a hyperbole to emphasize and highlight the effort he gives the team and the fans?

Or do you think there exists such a thing as 110%?

[JonO]

Just ignore my post - misread what Roogsy was replying to

[Section 117]

Your arguments are lacking evidence. Regardless of what the DP spot was intended for, there are no rules for using them. Otherwise, I am sure we would not be stuck with JDG.

As for salary caps...your argument is completely undone because in this salary cap environment, the DP rule is designed to do exactly that, circumvent the salary cap. Therefore, any team who wants to exceed the cap simply applies the DP rule. As we did with Mista and JDG. With a payroll of over 4million last year, there is no argument that the cap is the reason any team should not be able to sign a player they wish to have on their roster at the price they choose to pay.

Agreed Roogsy, but it is not designed to be given to exsisting MLS players. Look at the Kenny Cooper situation he went to Germany because he wanted DP money to stay in Dallas and the league doesn't want to give players that established themselves in the MLS that kind of money... The only exception is Donavan as he has been getting DP money since he came back from Germany the first time

[Azerban]

but theres also rumours he'll get a DP slot in TO...soooooooooooo amagad offseason rumour mill drama!

ummm the offseason is sacred no one would besmirch it with anything but the most highly researched facts

that said, can't wait for kiki musampa!

[menefreghista]

I have heard that multiple teams have called asking for Dero.....

Problem is that what these teams are offering is equivelant to bag of soccer balls and some shiny pylons.... If the right deal came along I can see TFC getting rid of Dero. No one person is bigger then the team and if another team is willing to give up 2 to 3 players that will be starters and make an impact it will get done

When you consider that's what we got him for (ie. Julius James) I can understand this. Besides, other GM's just saw us make a questionable trade with our first rounder. They know our GM is interim. Maybe they think they can play hardball. Plus you lose some bargaining power when you are dealing from a position of weakness.

That being sad, I will be sad to see DeRosario go if this is true. He is as close to guaranteed performance as you are ever going to get in this league. I would rather pay him and build a better team around him. He is not easily replaceable. If he was we would have already found his replacement over the past 4 season.

[Roogsy]

I have heard that multiple teams have called asking for Dero.....

Problem is that what these teams are offering is equivelant to bag of soccer balls and some shiny pylons.... If the right deal came along I can see TFC getting rid of Dero. No one person is bigger then the team and if another team is willing to give up 2 to 3 players that will be starters and make an impact it will get done

Of course TFC won't trade him away for nothing. They're not too bright up there sometimes but they're not completely stupid. That's not the point, knowing that there are teams that want DeRo (despite the claims around here that no team would want him) it must be frustrating for him to sit here and not know what the hell is going on. One thing for sure, if he is forced to play through option years (which is where he is at now in his contract) he will be a very unhappy player. That does no one any good.

[jabbronies]

Agreed Roogsy, but it is not designed to be given to exsisting MLS players. Look at the Kenny Cooper situation he went to Germany because he wanted DP money to stay in Dallas and the league doesn't want to give players that established themselves in the MLS that kind of money... The only exception is Donavan as he has been getting DP money since he came back from Germany the first time

Stole this line, but I agree with it and it pretty much counters your statement:
Donovan’s contract was given to him pretty much on the basis of his stellar play in MLS beforehand; he’s a good player who was rewarded with a good deal, not a player from outside the league that needed to be enticed.

Stole it from here:
http://avoidingthedrop.com/2010/11/05/the-failure-of-the-designated-player/

To be honest, maybe the DP rule should be used to keep skilled players here. Why are we not rewarding our league grown talent and paying up? we'd rather let out talent go and then bring in some unproven name who ends up flopping?

[Roogsy]

You know what? Fuck being discreet! Seriously, I don't want anymore of these secrets and whispering campaigns going on at the club anymore.

Back when Mo was in charge, people HATED how tight-lipped the club was. But here we have an issue brought out in the open and it's not cool for some? Maybe if more players and staff were as open as DeRo is, we the fans would have a better understanding on what exactly happens on Planet TFC.

You've hit the nail on the head with that post, Roogsy. I'm had it with this top-secret bullshit.


Exactly!

I mean who among us wasn't tired of Rohan Rickett's ongoing promise of giving us information on the club after he left only to never be given anything at all?

[tfcleeds]

Can't say it's a good thing to lose our best player over the last two seasons (if there are indeed legs to this rumour), however having said that, no one is bigger than the club.

[Section 117]

When you consider that's what we got him for (ie. Julius James) I can understand this. Besides, other GM's just saw us make a questionable trade with our first rounder. They know our GM is interim. Maybe they think they can play hardball. Plus you lose some bargaining power when you are dealing from a position of weakness.

That being sad, I will be sad to see DeRosario go if this is true. He is as close to guaranteed performance as you are ever going to get in this league. I would rather pay him and build a better team around him. He is not easily replaceable. If he was we would have already found his replacement over the past 4 season.

Actually, it is not that bad of trade. I spoke to my sources and was advise that Sturgis is better then most of the players availabke to us in the draft. If we had a top 3 pick it would have been different but Sturgis for the 8th pick which would have been a crap shoot at best was a good trade I was told

[Roogsy]

Can't say it's a good thing to lose our best player over the last two seasons (if there are indeed legs to this rumour), however having said that, no one is bigger than the club.

I keep seeing this.

Can someone explain to me how DeRo asking the team to follow through on what was verbally promised is him trying to be bigger than the club?

[Azerban]

Stole this line, but I agree with it and it pretty much counters your statement:
Donovan’s contract was given to him pretty much on the basis of his stellar play in MLS beforehand; he’s a good player who was rewarded with a good deal, not a player from outside the league that needed to be enticed.
[B]


it's pretty clear that donovan is and will always be a special case, and a comparison with any other player ever would be more effective

[ManUtd4ever]

Stole this line, but I agree with it and it pretty much counters your argument:
Donovan’s contract was given to him pretty much on the basis of his stellar play in MLS beforehand; he’s a good player who was rewarded with a good deal, not a player from outside the league that needed to be enticed.

Stole it from here:
http://avoidingthedrop.com/2010/11/05/the-failure-of-the-designated-player/

To be honest, maybe the DP rule should be used to keep skilled players here. Why are we not rewarding our league grown talent and paying up? we'd rather let out talent go and then bring in some unproven name who ends up flopping?

I've stated this in the past and I couldn't agree more. I can guarantee that if TFC signed a foreign DP midfielder that put up the same offensive numbers as DeRo, everyone would be happier than pigs in shit. I don't understand the double standard.

DeRo does not deserve to be a multimillionaire but he certainly deserves a moderate raise. If his contract was renegotiated in the range of 750K per season, it would be a fair compromise and benefit the organization moving forward...

[maninb]

I'd much rather have Woznolowski(sp?) SJs top scorer than DeRo...younger, better attitude, and I'm sure he'd be cheaper...trade DeRo while we can...

[Beach_Red]

Agreed Roogsy, but it is not designed to be given to exsisting MLS players. Look at the Kenny Cooper situation he went to Germany because he wanted DP money to stay in Dallas and the league doesn't want to give players that established themselves in the MLS that kind of money... The only exception is Donavan as he has been getting DP money since he came back from Germany the first time


It's not really designed at all, it's a work-in-progress, like the whole league and needs to be flexible. There was one, then two now three if you pay a fee to the league, who knows what it'll be next year?

Like all the "rules" in MLS it can be pushed and chaged on a whim. MLSE are not likely to ever push a rule, but other teams will and then they'll follow.

[jabbronies]

it's pretty clear that donovan is and will always be a special case, and a comparison with any other player ever would be more effective

Read the full thread path before you post, this isn't a comparison between players.

You need to look at the bigger picture. Donovan, an established MLS player, was given a DP contract so that he would stay in the MLS. The statement made was the DP rule wasn't designed for established MLS players.

[Roogsy]

I'd much rather have Woznolowski(sp?) SJs top scorer than DeRo...younger, better attitude, and I'm sure he'd be cheaper...trade DeRo while we can...


Yes because the plan from San Jose isn't to use both of them right? And they'd give him up cheap right?

Again with the FIFA trading around here. :rolleyes:

[Wagner]

should this thread be titled something like "extreme baseless rumour - DeRo"

[Azerban]

I'd much rather have Woznolowski(sp?) SJs top scorer than DeRo...younger, better attitude, and I'm sure he'd be cheaper...trade DeRo while we can...

i would do dero for wondo in a second

sorry everyone

[jabbronies]

I've stated this in the past and I couldn't agree more. I can guarantee that if TFC signed a foreign DP midfielder that put up the same offensive numbers as DeRo, everyone would be happier than pigs in shit. I don't understand the double standard.

DeRo does not deserve to be a multimillionaire but he certainly deserves a moderate raise. If his contract was renegotiated in the range of 750K per season, it would be a fair compromise and benefit the organization moving forward...

How many DP's, current and past, deserve to be multimillionaires? the DP spot is a crap shot. We have a guy who can score now. why let him go and then take the crap shot?

[Roogsy]

should this thread be titled something like "extreme baseless rumour - DeRo"


It's not.

[Section 117]

Roogsy, at the end of the day Dero was lied to by Mo period..... Was it wrong yes, but to say that he is not well compensated compared to the rest of the league with simiar player and attributes you bet he is.

Mo appealed to Dero's ego to get him to come home, promising him things that he couldn't deliver.... Now Dero realizes that he swindled and shows up the team by his cheque signing inccident. I hope he stays, but if at the end of the day if he doesn't get DP money and decides to sulk around the pitch and not preform it would be better for him to leave

[Borga]

DeRo is not a leader, but you need someone on your team to score goals, so pay the man, take the armband away and let him do his thing. Beyond his selfishness, the problem I have with his play is his me-first mentality. When you put him in the midfield and he brings the ball forward, he is constantly looking to create opportunities for himself. When he finds that he is unable to generate himself a scoring chance, then he looks to pass and by then it's too late. So he makes a bad pass to a teammate, then looks all disgusted when the defenders send the ball back upfield.

I'm not sure being a me-first goalscorer is worth anything other than a paycheque - certainly not a lot of respect.

[Wagner]

when mista and JDG make what they make, and don't bring even a fraction of what DeRo Brings....you can see how he'd be pissed, especially considering MoJudas made a verbal commitment.

[Whoop]

IF we had a proper GM in place there is some merit to trading a player when his value is the highest. Coming off two big seasons if we had a GM that could parlay DeRo into 2-3 quality starters, preferably on the younger side, than I would have no issue with it.

But of course we don't have a GM yet and we're coming into the holiday season.

[jabbronies]

How many DP's, current and past, deserve to be multimillionaires? the DP spot is a crap shot. We have a guy who can score now. why let him go and then take the crap shot?

to add to this, give him a 1 year dp contract and see how it goes IMO.
if he can score 15 as a regular mls player - he should score 20 as a dp.

[Darlofletch]

I hope it doesn't happen, i'm not a full-on de ro worshipper by any means, but his goals would be difficult to replace.

having said that, 2 years now he's been the centrepiece of the team and we haven't really had that much success have we. Maybe we need to go in another direction, and to be able to do that we have to get rid of de ro? would he be happy to drop back into a supporting role instead of being The Man on the team?

I guess it comes down to what jürgen tells us about how we want to go about next year, do we just try and add better bits to what we currently have, or do we fully blow this shit up and start again.

either way, I hope it's not our interim gm who makes that decision.


edit: the we have to get rid of de ro. sentence was supposed to be very hypothetical rather that my opinuion of what needs to be done, which reading back, it didn't sound like, so I've thrown in a ?

[Wagner]

It's not.
Isn't DeRo under contract for another year?
I'm sure teams make all sorts of offers for the best player on our team.

Yes DeRo wants and deserves more cash.

What's the source that he's going to SJ??
without any source...it's just a rumour.

[Azerban]

Read the full thread path before you post, this isn't a comparison between players.


the only thing i glossed over is that you got your definitive statement from a blog

oh, and i forgot the fact that donovan was 'a DP' before DP's existed, so he was never given a DP position, he was grandfathered into one

[Whoop]

to add to this, give him a 1 year dp contract and see how it goes IMO.
if he can score 15 as a regular mls player - he should score 20 as a dp.

Really?

Wouldn't the new coach dictate the system that the team would play next season? Would DeRo be the primary goal scorer or would he be the distributor?

To say he'll score 20 when he has never scored 20 goals in a season in his career is a little presumptuous. The 15 he scored in league play is a career best.

[Azerban]

when mista and JDG make what they make, and don't bring even a fraction of what DeRo Brings....you can see how he'd be pissed, especially considering MoJudas made a verbal commitment.

how does a media whore party throwing dude like dero not realize a verbal commitment is worth the paper it's written on

[Globetrotter]

Your arguments are lacking evidence. Regardless of what the DP spot was intended for, there are no rules for using them. Otherwise, I am sure we would not be stuck with JDG.

As for salary caps...your argument is completely undone because in this salary cap environment, the DP rule is designed to do exactly that, circumvent the salary cap. Therefore, any team who wants to exceed the cap simply applies the DP rule. As we did with Mista and JDG. With a payroll of over 4million last year, there is no argument that the cap is the reason any team should not be able to sign a player they wish to have on their roster at the price they choose to pay.

I'm not presenting in front of a judge or jury. This is a forum, I'm not out to say I'm a god. I don't need to provide evidence. Easy on the coffee, chill out.

Without presenting you with a multi-volume report, I'll say this; There's been 2 players in the history of the rule that haven't been brought in from elsewhere (non home grown mls boys or americans). Claudio Reyna, and Captain America Donovan. It's been stated many times by many sources (that I'm not providing any evidence for) that we don't use the DP rule simply to pay one of our own a little bit more. I wouldn't be surprised if a Dero DP spot was declined.

Read the two paragraphs as a whole instead of picking it apart bit by bit. You've lost the message by doing so, or made it more complicated than it needed to be. I think you knew what I was saying, but chose to go the route you did.

[Roogsy]

to add to this, give him a 1 year dp contract and see how it goes IMO.
if he can score 15 as a regular mls player - he should score 20 as a dp.


This is skewed point of view. If he wants double the salary should he score double the goals?

You could also apply it the other way. Since JDG makes 4 times what DeRo makes, should he not score 60 goals?

Pulling numbers out of the air doens't make much sense. The point is we want someone here who will continue to produce. If he scores 12 goals next year, will we be disappointed?

[Wagner]

I hope it doesn't happen, i'm not a full-on de ro worshipper by any means, but his goals would be difficult to replace.

having said that, 2 years now he's been the centrepiece of the team and we haven't really had that much success have we. Maybe we need to go in another direction, and to be able to do that we have to get rid of de ro, would he be happy to drop back into a supporting role instead of being The Man on the team?

I guess it comes down to what jürgen tells us about how we want to go about next year, do we just try and add better bits to what we currently have, or do we fully blow this shit up and start again.

either way, I hope it's not our interim gm who makes that decision.
DeRo is without question one of the top players in the league.
But what support does he have?

one man can't make a team.
we are better with him.

[Cashcleaner]

^ One man can't make a team, but if you were to start with an anchor with which to rebuild a squad around, surely he'd be it.

[kaos197O]

I keep seeing this.

Can someone explain to me how DeRo asking the team to follow through on what was verbally promised is him trying to be bigger than the club?

What exactly, that he's on record as saying, was he promised verbally? Why, being a proffessional for many years and having signed many contacts, would he accept a verbal promise as a guaranteed contract? Put the clause in my contract or forget it!

Dero is very unhappy and perhaps rightfully so, but taking this matter public, BEFORE his option was to be picked up might have been a huge mistake. If management gives in to his tantrums, bullying, then what precedent does that set for the club going forward. He needs to know his place and he crossed a major boundary mid season, one that may cost us ALL a very good player and one that Dero may regret for years to come. Hope I'm wrong but I've got no problem with him moving on or management moving on without him.

[Beach_Red]

Roogsy, at the end of the day Dero was lied to by Mo period..... Was it wrong yes, but to say that he is not well compensated compared to the rest of the league with simiar player and attributes you bet he is.




And MLSE have never taken responsibility for their employee. They hired a guy with almost no experience and then left him in the job far too long. It's really time people stopped using the Mo scapegoat. If this was a well-run organization this wouldn't be happening now (and I guess we wouldn't have anything to talk about in the off season ;)).

This is a problem they could solve easily with what is a very small amount of money for MLSE, but of course, they'll let it spin out of control into another distracting soap opera that damages the team.

[bgnewf]

I call off season shenanigans on this entire thread.

Where other than an unattributed post on this message board does a rumour like this come from anyways?

DeRo is under contract. Yes on six publicly documented occasions in the last six seasons he has griped about every deal he has signed, but he is under contract still.

San Jose is a good young club that has a core of good players at its heart that look like a good base to build around. Wondoloski was a relevation in almost winning the golden boot this season. With due respect what kind of deal would they want to make with Toronto to get DeRo that would not hurt them short to medium term?

And the issue with DeRo remains him wishing to be a DP. Whether here or elsewhere he is on a maximum non DP deal. The only way he gets his wish for more coin is to get a DP deal. Whether he likes it or not Toronto is the place where has the best chance to get one. I would be shocked if DeRO would want to leave with that in mind.

Unless San Jose wants to make him a DP there is no way he would leave.

[Section 117]

And MLSE have never taken responsibility for their employee. They hired a guy with almost no experience and then left him in the job far too long. It's really time people stopped using the Mo scapegoat. If this was a well-run organization this wouldn't be happening now (and I guess we wouldn't have anything to talk about in the off season ;)).

This is a problem they could solve easily with what is a very small amount of money for MLSE, but of course, they'll let it spin out of control into another distracting soap opera that damages the team.


I can say I have first hand knowledge of many of lies tht Mo spewed from his mouth to many former and current players. I don't understand why MLSE on the low give Dero a condo, throw him a car but not a lamorghini cause you can't bring that to work....

There are many ways of getting around the cap, they just need to be a tad more creative

[Parkdale]

http://www.multivisionnaire.com/mv_film_images/keyart_offseason_143.jpg


run for the hills

[Roogsy]

I'm not presenting in front of a judge or jury. This is a forum, I'm not out to say I'm a god. I don't need to provide evidence. Easy on the coffee, chill out.

Without presenting you with a multi-volume report, I'll say this; There's been 2 players in the history of the rule that haven't been brought in from elsewhere (non home grown mls boys or americans). Claudio Reyna, and Captain America Donovan. It's been stated many times by many sources (that I'm not providing any evidence for) that we don't use the DP rule simply to pay one of our own a little bit more. I wouldn't be surprised if a Dero DP spot was declined.

Read the two paragraphs as a whole instead of picking it apart bit by bit. You've lost the message by doing so, or made it more complicated than it needed to be. I think you knew what I was saying, but chose to go the route you did.


Would a DP spot be declined? That is up to the league. I never said they wouldn't decline it. But certainly they'd do it for philosophical reasons not for structural ones because the rule has no rule, we all know that.

As for your initial post, you made two points and I broke down each point. Taking the position of "I am not in front of a jury" is nonsensical and a cop-out. Either a point stands up to scrutiny or it does not regardless of where it's analyzed.

[Roogsy]

Unless San Jose wants to make him a DP there is no way he would leave.

This is actually not true big guy. There are many reasons DeRo would leave for San Jose if he was able to even if they did not give him a DP contract.

[kaos197O]

This is actually not true big guy. There are many reasons DeRo would leave for San Jose if he was able to even if they did not give him a DP contract.

100% agree

[Stouffville_RPB]

Yes he is. A jerk for giving us 31 goals over 2 seasons when no one else has come even close. A jerk for giving 110% in each game for us. A jerk for almost single-handedly winning us our first trophy. A jerk for wanting the team to honour their word to him.

Yes a jerk.

And people around here didn't believe me when I said there were other teams interested in him. :rolleyes:

So...who is going to score goals for us next year if he leaves? Because this team has shown an incredible ability to bring in good talent at a good price right?

You are taking my post out of context. :D

I was posting along as usual this moring when I noticed my name was the only one of recent posts. I thought I'd try "Workie-ing" the boards and Techno ruined it with this thread. :D ... jerk

[Roogsy]

What exactly, that he's on record as saying, was he promised verbally? Why, being a proffessional for many years and having signed many contacts, would he accept a verbal promise as a guaranteed contract? Put the clause in my contract or forget it!

It's a matter of timing. DeRo felt backed into a corner because he asked Houston to release him in order to sign with Toronto based on Mo's promise of a DP contract. Once Houston released him and we were ALL expecting the announcement, contract talks stalled precisely on this very fact because Mo renegged on his promise. But he knew everyone was expecting the announcement and he either signed what Mo presented or did not make the move to Toronto at all, and he really wanted to come. I remember this period like it was yesterday and I remember we were all discussing this point itself. If we all look back, we will remember there was a delay in the announcement and that is because they two sides were locked in this discussion. He was left with no choice but to sign. And for anyone who says they wouldn't have signed, I call bullshit. Remember this is MLS, not Europe and his options were limited, or almost none and this was before the new CBA where players without contracts are now eligible in the re-entry draft. That did not exist. There was a good possibility DeRo would not have been allowed to play in MLS at all because of Mo, so to say he should not have signed is to ask him to sacrifice something most of you would not do yourselves.



Everyone also remember the hoopla the team made when they presented DeRo. While amateurish, it did represent how big of a deal they thought it was in bringing him here. Of course they did it on the cheap because they leveraged him. Now he is leveraging them. It's business. Everyone here should remember that.

[jabbronies]

This is skewed point of view. If he wants double the salary should he score double the goals?

You could also apply it the other way. Since JDG makes 4 times what DeRo makes, should he not score 60 goals?

Pulling numbers out of the air doens't make much sense. The point is we want someone here who will continue to produce. If he scores 12 goals next year, will we be disappointed?

It's not double the goals. It's 5 more goals than this years total.

The guys is asking for DP money. He clearly feels he's got the skill to demand that type of coin. IMO if you are getting DP money, than you should be a top 5 player, which Dero is.

The reason I'm saying he should get 5 more goals (or be more prominent in whatever role he is given wether it be score goals or be the league leader in assists if that's his new role) is because as everyone here knows, DP's are held to a hire standard due to their skill set that allows them the salary they are getting. Dero would be no exception IMO. I would expect a higher level of play from him.

As for the JDG comment - that is a bit ignorant. JDG doesn't score goals. that's not the role of a DM. For the amount of $$$ he gets, he should be able to strip the ball off 90% of the players in the league , hold on to the ball for longer than 2 seconds and pass the ball with laser accuracy...something he doesn't do.

[Roogsy]

As for the JDG comment - that is a bit ignorant. JDG doesn't score goals. that's not the role of a DM. For the amount of $$$ he gets, he should be able to strip the ball off 90% of the players in the league , hold on to the ball for longer than 2 seconds and pass the ball with laser accuracy...something he doesn't do.


Not at all. Because your comment fails in the same way.

Let's say we sign DeRo to a DP $750k contract and everyone is happy. Should we automatically expect him to score 20 because of that? It does not make sense because that assumes so many things, it's incalculable. What if the team is worse? Should he still score 20 goals? What if he is asked to play behind the striker? Should he still score 20 goals? What if he plays wing? What if we get another Preki? What if...what if...what if...

The point I was making is that arbitrary numbers like that aren't backed up by context. And yes, my point about JDG was silly. It was made precisely to highlight the fallacy of your point.

[Beach_Red]

I can say I have first hand knowledge of many of lies tht Mo spewed from his mouth to many former and current players. I don't understand why MLSE on the low give Dero a condo, throw him a car but not a lamorghini cause you can't bring that to work....

There are many ways of getting around the cap, they just need to be a tad more creative


Because they didn't have to. Because they saw people would blame middle-management and they used that. And they're still using it. Now whatever happens they'll say, "It's what the consultant told us to do." If it works out really well, great, if not then once again they'll take no responsibility.

How often do good results come from organizations where no one accepts responsibility?

[jabbronies]

Not at all. Because your comment fails in the same way.

Let's say we sign DeRo to a DP $750k contract and everyone is happy. Should we automatically expect him to score 20 because of that? It does not make sense because that assumes so many things, it's incalculable. What if the team is worse? Should he still score 20 goals? What if he is asked to play behind the striker? Should he still score 20 goals? What if he plays wing? What if we get another Preki? What if...what if...what if...

The point I was making is that arbitrary numbers like that aren't backed up by context. And yes, my point about JDG was silly. It was made precisely to highlight the fallacy of your point.

Agreed 20 goals may have been a bit silly depending on the context of his new role.

If Dero gets dropped back and is now a feeder to our strikers, then as a DP I expect to see him among the league leaders in assists.

If he's a goal scorer I expect to see him among the league leader in goals. 20 goals is not unreasonable IMO, considering the fact he scored 15 in the shit show that was last season. Now if he scores 18, 19 I'm not going to be a stickler, but if we are paying someone more money, he shouldn't be dropping his production numbers. plain and simple.

[Roogsy]

How often do good results come from organizations where no one accepts responsibility?

Ah...the MLSE-way!

[Derko]

I have this feeling that he is the trouble in the locker room. Having a coworker always complaining about his pay can not be good. He is our best player and should have DP $ but don’t bitch you signed the contract.

If the news is true and we pick up a good replacement I’m ok with that.

I do think that DeRo is by far our best goalscorer, if not our best player, do I think he deserves a better contract, ala DP money, yes I do, do I think DeRo and his agents are being forthright and professional in negotiating a better contract with MLSE, NO, DeRo is acting like a spoiled selfish twat, and his agents are just puppies following behind him, all that Bullshit spewing from DeRo about wanting to play in Toronto and for TFC makes me want to puke, another Fucking Prima Donna in the world of Football. If he goes it is on his own accord, I remeber someone saying when DeRo is happy he plays exceptionally well, when he has a tampon up his ass, he plays and acts like an ASSHOLE, typical

[fetajr]

he'll be 33 next season...let him go wherever he wants, TFC does not need him

[Darlofletch]

just read this article about ledouche in miami and the struggle that's going on there
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AuqCKF9_128oppuakA7tfexShgM6?slug=aw-lebronspoelstra112910

seems like lebron wants to be the man, doesn't like a coach that tells him what to do and doesn't just let him be himself, and publicly complains a lot in the press trying to get the club to bend to his will.
sound familiar?

[Roogsy]

let him go wherever he wants, TFC does not need him


:lol:

Nope...we have Klinsmann now! :hurray:

[Roogsy]

just read this article about ledouche in miami and the struggle that's going on there
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AuqCKF9_128oppuakA7tfexShgM6?slug=aw-lebronspoelstra112910

seems like lebron wants to be the man, doesn't like a coach that tells him what to do and doesn't just let him be himself, and publicly complains a lot in the press trying to get the club to bend to his will.
sound familiar?


Yeah, sounds like Lindros. ;)

Seriously, not to get off topic, but I'd like to see Spoelstra in Toronto!

[Section 117]

IF Dero does get traded this more proof that Earl will be the GM for this team going forward.

As stated before everything is going to be status quo within the managemnet structure fo TFC

[prizby]

wait til mls rumours reads this and writes an article

i don't believe it one bit

[Section 117]

wait til mls rumours reads this and writes an article

i don't believe it one bit

Where there is smoke there is fire.....

[Mark in Ottawa]

You gotta love the rumour mill.
Wouldn't want the off season to be boring now would we :rolleyes:

Next we will be hearing about how Stefan Frei is off to Europe to play in a few friendlies and possibly get spotted by some European clubs... o wait... that one is no rumour. That one is a fact.

[reggie]

IF Dero does get traded this more proof that Earl will be the GM for this team going forward.

As stated before everything is going to be status quo within the managemnet structure fo TFC
in that case bring back mo...

[David_Oliveira]

If it happens, I'll be sad to see him go. Him and Frei have been our most consistent players in our last two years. Obviously there is life after Dero. There has to be a bigger plan here. You can't get rid of your best scorer without having someone to come in and replace him right? If true, the player that comes in will have even more pressure added on to him to perform.

Once again, I hope it isn't true. All this talk of him being a cancer...Prove it. I haven't heard that teammates are still pissed at him. For the most part, they probably agreed with him on his concerns. He backs up his demands.

Him leaving for SJ wouldn't suprise me if he left. He spent the better part of his career there.

[Razor]

Dero is all about the almighty $$$$$$. He puts himself before the club.

Does he deserve a raise - sure. Does he deserve DP money - no fucking way.

If we found a suitable replacement I would be happy to wave his ass goodbye..but I doubt we can so we're stuck with him.

He's a twat.

[BFin]

Where there is smoke there is fire.....

There isn't smoke....

[reggie]

why his he a twat..because he scores goals and works his ass off...your a twat

[TFC Cityboy]

classic offseason thread that will round and round, wind people up and cause friction between members....
yawn.....

[prizby]

i'll put a bet on agents starting rumours in an attempt to try to get TFC to raise his salary; it is the only plausible reason. San Jose has not trading chips, I doubt they would put Wondolowski in a trade for DeRo

[Suds]

I'm more schocked about the the steep divide in the opinions on DeRo.

We should get all the people for and against on two teams in a big game of paintball ... which ever side wins gets to tell MLSE what to do.

[Razor]

why his he a twat..because he scores goals and works his ass off...your a twat

are you really calling me a twat?

[reggie]

are you really calling me a twat?
jus fucking around...im pissed :D

[Darlofletch]

i'll put a bet on agents starting rumours in an attempt to try to get TFC to raise his salary; it is the only plausible reason. San Jose has not trading chips, I doubt they would put Wondolowski in a trade for DeRo

this is a theory based on a rumour, so just going further and further down the rabbit hole, but what the hell, I'll respond.

it's hardly provoking a massive "oh my god mlse, don't let this happen, de ro has to be back, do what it takes to make him happy" response here is it?

same as the cheque writing gesture, and the numerous public airing of grievances, are de ro and his advisors misreading the public mood and thinking the supporters as a whole are all a lot more behind de ro than they actually are?

[Section 117]

There isn't smoke....

Actually, this isn't the first team that I heard that was interested in Dero. From my sources there have been a couple of teams that have made offers....

I will not reveal how I know, or what teams but I can assure you that he is not being shopped around but TFC are fielding offers and you can't blame the team for fielding the offers as no one is untouchable...

[Oldtimer]

If DeRo leaves...

The bad:

Losing our top goal-scorer, who plays up to the big games
Losing "the face" of the franchise
Losing a past CMNT player

The Good:

No more cheque-signing BS.
Cap space freed to sign a DP striker (yes, you can have 3 DPs, but the cap space will kill you).
Bye-bye to the tension he causes in the locker room.
The chance to get a player who fits in a system. DeRo is a good player, but he plays however he feels like.

[Razor]

jus fucking around...im pissed :D

:D

don't ever do that again....you had me there for a minute. haha.

[reggie]

classic offseason thread that will round and round, wind people up and cause friction between members....
yawn.....

you think its ugly now...wait and see if they keep the front office status quo:facepalm:

[phonzo]

back to basics...more rumour threads!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i'll put a bet on agents starting rumours in an attempt to try to get TFC to raise his salary; it is the only plausible reason. San Jose has not trading chips, I doubt they would put Wondolowski in a trade for DeRo

too much of a gamble in my opinion, one season does not a player make

[denime]

This Thread should be CLOSED,before infractions start flying around.There is no need to get upset over a roumor started by Techno and his " source".

[boban]

Im not saying how I know, or who I know. . but. . everyone needs to brace themselves for this news. . . it is very, very very Close.

and unless MLSE recognizes Dero for his contribution and gives him what he wants, he will be in 'Quakes colours next season. . .read - DP spot.
Good riddance is what I say.

[Pachuco]

This is depressing if true. We are going to be in a massive whole if we can't keep Dero around.

[TFCRegina]

De Ro scores lots of goals for us. But every player has a price. If we move him for the right players/money/(I daresay)draft picks, so be it. Just remember though, we have to replace him with someone. Maybe Geovanni is the guy, maybe someone else is. But De Ro scored a shitload for us, so it's not going to be easy. The chances of replacing him with anyone comparable are pretty shitty.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Wagner]

This Thread should be CLOSED,before infractions start flying around.There is no need to get upset over a roumor started by Techno and his " source".

do it.
unless someone wants to come forward with a source...
this is all BS.

[rocker]

This Thread should be CLOSED,before infractions start flying around.There is no need to get upset over a roumor started by Techno and his " source".

yup..

It's like when my girlfriend worries about me possibility breaking up with her some day...
I say: "babe, worry about it when I actually break up with you! ha ha!"

[Pachuco]

Oh, just what I needed to hear this off season. That we keep useless twat De Guzman and Dero leaves. Boy someone remind me why I fell for it and renewed my season tix?

[Roogsy]

i'll put a bet on agents starting rumours in an attempt to try to get TFC to raise his salary; it is the only plausible reason. San Jose has not trading chips, I doubt they would put Wondolowski in a trade for DeRo


LOL! I'd like to play poker against you sir.

[Roogsy]

Bye-bye to the tension he causes in the locker room.


What tension? The one assumed on this board? I look down the roster and see nothing but a bunch of players that I know he gets along with well. I'd be interested in hearing who he isn't getting along with to backup this theory that he is an issue in the locker room?

[Roogsy]

back to basics...more rumour threads!


:lol:

Well...it is a "basic" this group has gotten very good at since the very beginning. Before there were banners...there were rumours. :D

[DangerRed]

Take on aggregate everything he's done, everything he hasn't, as well as his age, his attitude and the future of the club.

Are we building a team around guys like De Rosario? For what, the next season, two tops?

Let him go.

[prizby]

LOL! I'd like to play poker against you sir.

why is that

[Pachuco]

I don't know about Wondo for Dero. He looks to me like a player who won't do what he did this year again. It's like when the Leaf's got Jason Blake after his fluke of a year where he scored all those goals. If wondo comes here, I predict it ends up the same way.

[swan]

Dero is all about the almighty $$$$$$. He puts himself before the club.

Does he deserve a raise - sure. Does he deserve DP money - no fucking way.

If we found a suitable replacement I would be happy to wave his ass goodbye..but I doubt we can so we're stuck with him.

He's a twat.

wouldn't a raise put him in DP money, is he not just on the border of it..

[Roogsy]

wouldn't a raise put him in DP money, is he not just on the border of it..

:lol:

Don't let the facts get in the way mate.

[DangerRed]

Also: didn't DeRo want a DP spot at San Jose before and they told him to stuff it? Why would they be entertaining that now, when he's so much older?

[menefreghista]

Also: didn't DeRo want a DP spot at San Jose before and they told him to stuff it? Why would they be entertaining that now, when he's so much older?

Its a different organization. That team plays in Houston now.

This version of San Jose Earthquakes have shown they are willing to have a DP (Geovanni). Maybe De Rosario will be Geovanni's replacement?

[DangerRed]

Its a different organization. That team plays in Houston now.

This version just had Geovanni as a DP. Maybe De Rosario will be his replacement?

Hey, if SJ is game, I'd take Geovanni and Wondo for DeRo and some alloc any day.

[CretanBull]

This is depressing if true. We are going to be in a massive whole if we can't keep Dero around.

QFT!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

sj also didnt resign geo because he wanted the dp for 3 years, felt he didnt deserve it playing wise, wonder if itd be the same for DeRo

[fiji_blue]

Dero must stay

[menefreghista]

Hey, if SJ is game, I'd take Geovanni and Wondo for DeRo and some alloc any day.

Why would they do that?

Plus Geovanni has been released.

In all likelihood we would be getting draft picks, allocation and a marginal player.

TFC is negotiating from a position of weakness.

[Razor]

wouldn't a raise put him in DP money, is he not just on the border of it..


I wasn't sure where DP money started but....now I know. :)

[Roogsy]

I don't know about Wondo for Dero. He looks to me like a player who won't do what he did this year again. It's like when the Leaf's got Jason Blake after his fluke of a year where he scored all those goals. If wondo comes here, I predict it ends up the same way.


You know what...the "lets get Wondo" element on this board is the funniest part of all. Everyone here sees what he did this year and is immediately willing to drop a perennial winner and multiple-time MVP and MLS Cup-winner for someone who has had 1 good season. Wondolowski will be 28, has had 5 sub-par seasons in MLS and 1 good one. His previous all-time goal total over 5 seasons is 9 goals, TOTAL for all seasons. DeRo has 97. Wondolowski has to make up 67 goals in 6 seasons to reach DeRo's tally without even counting the trophies. Give me a break. They're not even on the same level. But of course, the Toronto Maple Leaf GMs of this board would make the trade in a second!

[TFCRegina]

You know what...the "lets get Wondo" element on this board is the funniest part of all. Everyone here sees what he did this year and is immediately willing to drop a perennial winner and multiple-time MVP and MLS Cup-winner for someone who has had 1 good season. Wondolowski will be 28, has had 5 sub-par seasons in MLS and 1 good one. His previous all-time goal total over 5 seasons is 9 goals, TOTAL for all seasons. DeRo has 97. Wondolowski has to make up 67 goals in 6 seasons to reach DeRo's tally without even counting the trophies. Give me a break. They're not even on the same level. But of course, the Toronto Maple Leaf GMs of this board would make the trade in a second!

This is so FUCKING TRUE!

[Roogsy]

Hey, if SJ is game, I'd take Geovanni and Wondo for DeRo and some alloc any day.


Excellent. Are you willing to give Geovanni 3 years as a DP?

[Whoop]

Regardless of whether Mo lied to DeRo or not, the ironic thing is when other players pull these same shenanigans people are ready to rake them over the coals.

I've said all along, DeRo could be the greatest guy in the world, but he has some poor handlers.

At the end of the day, no player is bigger than the club, no matter how shitty the club is.

[rocker]

At the end of the day, no player is bigger than the club, no matter how shitty the club is.

yup... 2 years without playoffs even WITH De Ro suggests to me that many people in this thread are missing the point.

We need a better TEAM.

Two points:
1) Giving De Ro more money won't improve the team next year.
2) Losing De Ro isn't going to mean the team will stop making the playoffs ;)

[Whoop]

You know what...the "lets get Wondo" element on this board is the funniest part of all. Everyone here sees what he did this year and is immediately willing to drop a perennial winner and multiple-time MVP and MLS Cup-winner for someone who has had 1 good season. Wondolowski will be 28, has had 5 sub-par seasons in MLS and 1 good one. His previous all-time goal total over 5 seasons is 9 goals, TOTAL for all seasons. DeRo has 97. Wondolowski has to make up 67 goals in 6 seasons to reach DeRo's tally without even counting the trophies. Give me a break. They're not even on the same level. But of course, the Toronto Maple Leaf GMs of this board would make the trade in a second!

I'm not on the Wondo bandwagon but isn't there also an element of risk when dealing with a player who will be turning 33 next season?

While people can debate the whole 110% thing, one thing that has been noticeable over the last two seasons is that DeRo does wear down - like most players.

So even if he were to sign a contract with TFC, if it's a long term deal, it's a bit of risk.

It's like 117 says, I might not shop him around but if people are making offers.... I'd be listening.

[Chevy]

Hey, if SJ is game, I'd take Geovanni and Wondo for DeRo and some alloc any day.

I don't think that SJ would give up Wondo - he's been effective and comes cheap.

Does anybody know if Geovanni's rights are retained by SJ? If so, and if he's willing to sign here I would dump Dero for him in a heartbeat. I'd give him 3 years WAY before I would shell out 3 years of DP money for DeRo.

[Section 117]

When trading a star, very rarely does the team trading the player get full value for the player. IF we could get two player who would start (that are upgrades over what we have) plus allocation money I can see thsi happening....

That being said management is NOT stupid enough to give Dero away... I have had many discussions about the squad with my sources and they agreed if it made the team better you have to at least considerate.

Dero makes $375K (I think) what should he be paid? $750K, $1.2mill what the magic number? I bet if TFC were to give him $750K and then he goes out and has a year liek he did this year he would ask for more again....

[TFC_PB]

Let's trade him for that young midfielder they have... what's his name? Oh yeah Sam Cronin.

This is a capital idea.

[Beach_Red]

You know what...the "lets get Wondo" element on this board is the funniest part of all.


No, MLS trades often make no sense at all. Look at what TFC gave up to get DeRo.

There was a lot of speculation at the time that the league interfered to get a Toronto guy playing in Toronto. Well, how big a stretch would it be to say that the league realizes now it didn't work and DeRo sill has history in San Jose?

[Roogsy]

I'm not on the Wondo bandwagon but isn't there also an element of risk when dealing with a player who will be turning 33 next season?

Risk management is what I do, it's an integral part of my job. Therefore, this post speaks to me so much. You are so right! Let's look at this point for a second.

What is the risks of giving DeRo a 2 year DP contract? No risk on the cap side, he's already maxing us out. Risk of injury? He has shown little inclination to getting hurt, unlike someone like Barrett let's say. That his goal production will drop off? All indications are that he can continue to sustain goal production at a high level. Locker-room issues, nobody has been able to point to any sustainable evidence that he is an issue in the locker room. So the risk is his age? That's it?

What are the risks to Wondolowski? For one, we don't even know if he wants to come here. Why leave a team that is making it into the playoffs for one that can barely get out of hte basement. So to lure him what do you have to do? First...trade with San Jose who would be asking a King's ransom for him. Draft picks. Allocation money etc. Second, you'd have to renegotiate his contract. No more $100k contract. No sir, my guess is he'd ask for more than Barrett was getting this year so likely in the 250-300k range. So between the international spot, the allocation money we'd give up, the draft pick we'd give up and his salary, Wondowloski would probably cost us more in cap space and roster space than DeRo.

But of course, his younge age (wait...is 28 young or old compared to 32?) is worth that right?

Oh and right...let's see if he can score 19 on a team like TFC because he did it on a playoff team right? There's no chance he will go back to scoring 2 per year right?

So Vic, I ask you...have we all really looked at the risks? Really?

[Roogsy]

I don't think that SJ would give up Wondo - he's been effective and comes cheap.

Does anybody know if Geovanni's rights are retained by SJ? If so, and if he's willing to sign here I would dump Dero for him in a heartbeat. I'd give him 3 years WAY before I would shell out 3 years of DP money for DeRo.


LOL! And you accuse me of bias. This post made me laugh.

I'd love to take a poll on this board. Geovanni vs DeRo. Without taking salaries into consideration because they are both maxing out the cap, who would you rather have?

[jabbronies]

LOL! And you accuse me of bias. This post made me laugh.

I'd love to take a poll on this board. Geovanni vs DeRo. Without taking salaries into consideration because they are both maxing out the cap, who would you rather have?

I think people need to realize that DeRo has proven he knows how to score in this league. Something at least a half dozen Designated players haven't, including Geovanni.

Geovanni hasn't shown any indication that he can score in MLS, so why would you drop Dero for him?

[Beach_Red]

Locker-room issues, nobody has been able to point to any sustainable evidence that he is an issue in the locker room.


This team should have locker room issues. No one in that locker room should be happy.

[BFin]

Marquez v Dero...who's the better DP?

This is not time for loyalty.

[Roogsy]

This team should have locker room issues. No one in that locker room should be happy.


I think people refer to clashes of personality within the locker room when they refer to them this way. I don't think anyone in that locker room was happy about the performance this year. You could speak to any player, including the ones that came to the RPB Year End Party and they all pretty much said the same thing.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Two things:

1) People mentioned other incentives for De Ro to go to San Jose - I'm curious as to what you are thinking of, intangibles or like someone mentioned 'throwing him a condo' or the like?

2) So what about guys like Conor Casey or Edson Buddle? They've had years where they had big numbers like De Ro - would you give them DP money?

[jazzy]

how does a media whore party throwing dude like dero not realize a verbal commitment is worth the paper it's written on

Do U mean parties like right to play,.....or charity raising events to raise $, for his local kids organisations to play soccer.............maybe he's a man of HIS word and expects the same, is this a foreign concept?

[TFCRegina]

Two things:

1) People mentioned other incentives for De Ro to go to San Jose - I'm curious as to what you are thinking of, intangibles or like someone mentioned 'throwing him a condo' or the like?

2) So what about guys like Conor Casey or Edson Buddle? They've had years where they had big numbers like De Ro - would you give them DP money?

You're oversimplifying the argument. Casey and Buddle are strikers.

De Ro is an attacking midfielder. We're getting his skills as an AM and as a goalscorer. Most AMs don't score a lot of goals. Look it up. Find me how many seasons Zidane scored over 10 goals!

[Roogsy]

2) So what about guys like Conor Casey or Edson Buddle? They've had years where they had big numbers like De Ro - would you give them DP money?

Buddle has had a couple of good years in LA playing beside Donovan and Beckham. I don't think anyone in the league thinks he can have the same effect without that kind of supporting staff hence probably the reason he will continue to make above-average wages but nothing exceptional. His time in Toronto supports this viewpoint.

[rocker]

Do U mean parties like right to play,.....or charity raising events to raise $, for his local kids organisations to play soccer.............maybe he's a man of HIS word and expects the same, is this a foreign concept?

man of his word? what word is that?

he is, afterall, already signed to a contract for 2011.

If we're gonna talk about "man of his word" and all that honour shit, then let's not forget about the honour of a signed contract.

[Roogsy]

man of his word? what word is that?

he is, afterall, already signed to a contract for 2011.

If we're gonna talk about "man of his word" and all that honour shit, then let's not forget about the honour of a signed contract.


Good point. Point me to where DeRo has indicated he will not be honouring his contract.

[rocker]

Buddle has had a couple of good years in LA playing beside Donovan and Beckham. I don't think anyone in the league thinks he can have the same effect without that kind of supporting staff hence probably the reason he will continue to make above-average wages but nothing exceptional. His time in Toronto supports this viewpoint.

Buddle had good years before he ever heard of Toronto FC and before he even met Donovan and Beckham.

[rocker]

Good point. Point me to where DeRo has indicated he will not be honouring his contract.

Point me to a point where I said DeRo isn't going to honour his contract.

your love for De Ro is causing you to read into people's messages things they aren't saying.

I'm simply pontificating on the notion of honour brought up by another poster.

Anyone who signs a contract should "honour" that contract until it's over.

[Carts]

If they let Dero go, either by trade, release, etc etc etc - they must, MUST, MUST, replace the goals he puts in the net...

GOALS WIN GAMES - and we have nobody left on the roster (currently) that scores...

Frei, Cann, Nana, they're becoming a more and more solid defensive unit to prevent as many goals as possible - but if you don't score, you will never win...

Carts...

[Roogsy]

Point me to a point where I said DeRo isn't going to honour his contract.

your love for De Ro is causing you to read into people's messages things they aren't saying.


By questioning his commitment to his contract you are indicating there is reason to doubt his word. If there is no reason to doubt, then why ask if he is a man of his word? There is one person in all of this that showed he was not trustworthy: Maurice Johnston. Has DeRo shown any reason to distrust him?

[rocker]

If they let Dero go, either by trade, release, etc etc etc - they must, MUST, MUST, replace the goals he puts in the net...


Of course.

But people make it sound like De Ro is irreplaceable.. that he's the only player who could ever score goals.

Other teams seem to go out and find guys who can score goals.

But for some reason we are wedded to De Rosario?

I repeat: Dwayne De Rosario is not irreplaceable. And Paying him DP money *will not make him score more goals or help us make the playoffs*.

[BFin]

Buddle has had a couple of good years in LA playing beside Donovan and Beckham. I don't think anyone in the league thinks he can have the same effect without that kind of supporting staff hence probably the reason he will continue to make above-average wages but nothing exceptional. His time in Toronto supports this viewpoint.

Why isn't Jeff Cunningham a DP if goals = DP Status?

His time in Dallas supports this viewpoint...



This thread should be closed.

[Whoop]

Risk management is what I do, it's an integral part of my job. Therefore, this post speaks to me so much. You are so right! Let's look at this point for a second.

What is the risks of giving DeRo a 2 year DP contract? No risk on the cap side, he's already maxing us out. Risk of injury? He has shown little inclination to getting hurt, unlike someone like Barrett let's say. That his goal production will drop off? All indications are that he can continue to sustain goal production at a high level. Locker-room issues, nobody has been able to point to any sustainable evidence that he is an issue in the locker room. So the risk is his age? That's it?

What are the risks to Wondolowski? For one, we don't even know if he wants to come here. Why leave a team that is making it into the playoffs for one that can barely get out of hte basement. So to lure him what do you have to do? First...trade with San Jose who would be asking a King's ransom for him. Draft picks. Allocation money etc. Second, you'd have to renegotiate his contract. No more $100k contract. No sir, my guess is he'd ask for more than Barrett was getting this year so likely in the 250-300k range. So between the international spot, the allocation money we'd give up, the draft pick we'd give up and his salary, Wondowloski would probably cost us more in cap space and roster space than DeRo.

But of course, his younge age (wait...is 28 young or old compared to 32?) is worth that right?

Oh and right...let's see if he can score 19 on a team like TFC because he did it on a playoff team right? There's no chance he will go back to scoring 2 per year right?

So Vic, I ask you...have we all really looked at the risks? Really?

You missed my point.

I don't want Wondo per se.

I'm just saying DeRo's value right now is probably at a peak, personally IMO there is no harm in listening to trade offers for DeRo.

If we can get 2-3 starters - whether that's possible or not I don't know - for DeRo that's something to consider.

Yes, DeRo hasn't had any major injuries but every coach worth his salt knows that you shut down DeRo you shut down TFC. He is getting older and he is wearing down. And will wear down.

At some point you have to target someone else - whoever that is - to build a team around or get more pieces for the team.

Is offloading DeRo for some starters an option? It's something to look at.

Either way, the earlier point I made as well, was I don't like the fact that there is no GM and/or coach and we're headed into the holiday season.

From my experience it's best to hold onto your players until you have a coach or GM who can come in, assess the players and see who fits the style of play said coach/GM wants to play. Maybe the new guy wants to come in and play an attacking style and wants to put DeRo up as a forward. DeRo says I don't want to play forward - as he has stated in the past - I want to be a midfielder. Or he says sure, no problem.

But on the flip side, at that point, your return on DeRo could be diminished.

And there's always the element of fleecing the new guy on the block.

[billyfly]

My source has not heard about this rumour but "can see it happening".

[Section 117]

Two things:

1) People mentioned other incentives for De Ro to go to San Jose - I'm curious as to what you are thinking of, intangibles or like someone mentioned 'throwing him a condo' or the like?

2) So what about guys like Conor Casey or Edson Buddle? They've had years where they had big numbers like De Ro - would you give them DP money?

I was suggesting give Dero a condo instead of a DP spot as the league doesn't want to give DP contract to career MLS players.

As per your second post those guys would never get a DP contract, the league will not allow it. Cause then you will Cummins from Colorado , Chad marshall, Sharlie Joseph, Le Toux, David Ferreira etc... all would want DP contracts and then the whole idea of salary cap and controlling cost would be lost and within 5 years we have the NASL and the league will be done like dinner

[Roogsy]

Buddle had good years before he ever heard of Toronto FC and before he even met Donovan and Beckham.


Good years? Average really for a striker.

He scored 42 goals for the Crew in 5 seasons there. That is less than 9 per season. He scored 6 goals for NY in a single season there, none for Toronto when he came here and then all of a sudden lit up when he went to LA.

Good years? I suppose it's subjective. I don't see those numbers as "good" for a striker. Is it really comparable then to DeRo's goal tally as a player who isn't even a Striker for the most part?

[Whoop]

Two things:

1) People mentioned other incentives for De Ro to go to San Jose - I'm curious as to what you are thinking of, intangibles or like someone mentioned 'throwing him a condo' or the like?

2) So what about guys like Conor Casey or Edson Buddle? They've had years where they had big numbers like De Ro - would you give them DP money?

Buddle actually has more career goals than DeRo. But that's beside the point.

Casey and Buddle's agents would be smart that if DeRo was to get a DP contract they could go to their clubs and ask for one.

[Carts]

Of course.

But people make it sound like De Ro is irreplaceable.. that he's the only player who could ever score goals.

Other teams seem to go out and find guys who can score goals.

But for some reason we are wedded to De Rosario?

I repeat: Dwayne De Rosario is not irreplaceable. And Paying him DP money *will not make him score more goals or help us make the playoffs*.

No no, don't get me wrong Rocker, I wasn't saying the he's irreplacable etc etc...

Just if we do let him go by whatever means, I'm begging the team to bring in a big, proven, goal scorer...

We can't let our only goal threat leave, without a person in place to pick up the slack...

I just don't want to see a year of 1-0 home losses... LOL

Carts...

[BFin]

As does Cunny...he also has more in the last 2 years I believe.

Dp it up.

[Wull]

Buddle actually has more career goals than DeRo. But that's beside the point.

Casey and Buddle's agents would be smart that if DeRo was to get a DP contract they could go to their clubs and ask for one.

Buddle isn't a midfielder

[rocker]

No no, don't get me wrong Rocker, I wasn't saying the he's irreplacable etc etc...

Just if we do let him go by whatever means, I'm begging the team to bring in a big, proven, goal scorer...

We can't let our only goal threat leave, without a person in place to pick up the slack...

I just don't want to see a year of 1-0 home losses... LOL

Carts...

oh sorry for suggesting you thought that... :) but I just wanted to address the sense I'm getting from certain people in this thread that TFC MUST at all costs give DP money to De Ro to keep him around. Am I misreading the sentiment?

I'm not biased towards De Ro, that's for sure. Good player, worth 400K.

But it's like the girlfriend analogy -- sometimes you stick it out in a relationship with a girl because it's familiar... breaking up brings about the "unknown," as you become single. But we shouldn't fear the unknown and think we have to sign De Ro to a DP contract just to keep him happy or to preserve goals.

His goals didn't get us the playoffs, so I don't fear the unknown.
And paying him more won't get us more goals...

De Ro scored fewer goals in Houston but his team performed better than TFC did.... that's an interesting fact. It means his pure goal total isn't really a factor in the success of the team. It's about having a good team.

If I'm a good businessman, I just let De Ro play out his contract that he's already under. If he sulks, then it shows he wasn't the great character player people think he is. If he scores 15 goals, I just got 15 goals at less than DP prices. That's good business.

[Roogsy]

I'm just saying DeRo's value right now is probably at a peak, personally IMO there is no harm in listening to trade offers for DeRo.

Absolutely! Business is business! Who understands this more than someone like me? People around here accuse me of bias because I like DeRo or because we've done projects together in the past. Of course, nobody gives credence to the theory that my arguments in favour of him being on the team have more to do with his production for TFC than whether I get to do a Children's Charity with him. Believe me, there is no real advantage to me on that front.

So if there is a deal to be made that makes TFC a winner, I say DO IT! DeRo will get paid wherever he goes and we get the tools to build a winner? Sure, I am not against that at all! But people speak as if that is already a given. Really? With this team? Are we not the Maple Leafs light? Have we not given away draft picks for nothing? Have we not left unused allocation space and let it expire? Have we shown any ability to get the most out of productive players or have players left here and become more productive elsewhere?

The old adage comes into play that I have quoted over and over on this topic but people seem to want to ignore. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I have confidence DeRo will net us another 10+ goals next year, what guarantees do we have that we sell our souls for Wondolowksi only to have him score less?

That is the risk people ignore here. The stuff you talk about (injuries etc.) are part of the game. The risk of injury to DeRo is equal to pretty much any player EXCEPT he has shown less likelihood to be hurt. Would you put money on DeRo or Barrett being on the bench next year? What do you think? That in itself should tell you about the risks in that regard.

[ensco]

Buddle was Nathan Sturgis in 2007 - an expansion draft guy who had bounced around.

[Whoop]

Buddle isn't a midfielder

But that's also not the point.

I think MLS would be reluctant to allow DeRo to get a DP contract because it would open up the door for established MLS players to demand DP contracts.

[Roogsy]

But that's also not the point.

I think MLS would be reluctant to allow DeRo to get a DP contract because it would open up the door for established MLS players to demand DP contracts.


I would say this is a definite possibility. Since they can do pretty much what they want, the league can bless or nix anything without having to back it up with any contractual obligations.

[Whoop]

Absolutely! Business is business! Who understands this more than someone like me? People around here accuse me of bias because I like DeRo or because we've done projects together in the past. Of course, nobody gives credence to the theory that my arguments in favour of him being on the team have more to do with his production for TFC than whether I get to do a Children's Charity with him. Believe me, there is no real advantage to me on that front.

So if there is a deal to be made that makes TFC a winner, I say DO IT! DeRo will get paid wherever he goes and we get the tools to build a winner? Sure, I am not against that at all! But people speak as if that is already a given. Really? With this team? Are we not the Maple Leafs light? Have we not given away draft picks for nothing? Have we not left unused allocation space and let it expire? Have we shown any ability to get the most out of productive players or have players left here and become more productive elsewhere?

The old adage comes into play that I have quoted over and over on this topic but people seem to want to ignore. A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. I have confidence DeRo will net us another 10+ goals next year, what guarantees do we have that we sell our souls for Wondolowksi only to have him score less?

That is the risk people ignore here. The stuff you talk about (injuries etc.) are part of the game. The risk of injury to DeRo is equal to pretty much any player EXCEPT he has shown less likelihood to be hurt. Would you put money on DeRo or Barrett being on the bench next year? What do you think? That in itself should tell you about the risks in that regard.

But I also think sticking with DeRo is the "safe bet" when in reality this team needs a longer term vision and to be honest DeRo isn't a part of it.

In reality this team - for the most part - has to be blown up and started from scratch.

It would be up to DeRo if he wants to be a part of that or if he wants the Do Re Mi.

Yes, I know it's MLS and you can be a championship team the next season after finishing dead last. I just don't see it with this bunch or this organization... at least not next season.

[Wull]

But that's also not the point.

I think MLS would be reluctant to allow DeRo to get a DP contract because it would open up the door for established MLS players to demand DP contracts.


It is the point if we're comparing career goals which is what the post was saying

[jloome]

Your arguments are lacking evidence. Regardless of what the DP spot was intended for, there are no rules for using them. Otherwise, I am sure we would not be stuck with JDG.

As for salary caps...your argument is completely undone because in this salary cap environment, the DP rule is designed to do exactly that, circumvent the salary cap. Therefore, any team who wants to exceed the cap simply applies the DP rule. As we did with Mista and JDG. With a payroll of over 4million last year, there is no argument that the cap is the reason any team should not be able to sign a player they wish to have on their roster at the price they choose to pay.

The league has turned down DP spots before for both Twellman and Joseph. I highly doubt they'd let San Jose assign one to a 33 year old DeRo.

If he goes, he goes. He's a good goalscorer but his overall value is badly overrated here due to ancillary issues, like playing out of position constantly, ball hoggery, occasionally checking out of games.

No player's perfect and DeRo's a big player in this league. But it's not like he "saved us" - we still haven't made the playoffs in four years and a midfielder is doing all of our scoring.

[BFin]

I love how the title says "Close to signing with San Jose"...when he is under contract.

This thread should be removed on that basis alone.

[Whoop]

I also agree with what rocker says though about people worrying that DeRo is irreplaceable. Every player is replaceable some are easier to replace than others.

Unless someone was on a 10 year contract, at the end of the day players come and go.

I just the two extremes.

"Give DeRo all the money in world! I mean if we don't, TFC will score 0 goals next season!"

"Trade him for three balls, a net and a pylon and we'll be fine. Good riddance!"

Somewhere in the middle there is a compromise.

[Roogsy]

But I also think sticking with DeRo is the "safe bet" when in reality this team needs a longer term vision and to be honest DeRo isn't a part of it.

In reality this team - for the most part - has to be blown up and started from scratch.

It would be up to DeRo if he wants to be a part of that or if he wants the Do Re Mi.

Yes, I know it's MLS and you can be a championship team the next season after finishing dead last. I just don't see it with this bunch or this organization... at least not next season.


If your answer for this team is to completely blow it up, then by all means, get what you can get for DeRo and let him play for a competitive team. It's obvious playing for a loser like TFC frustrates the hell out of him. It's too bad that he has to go elsewhere to succeed instead of helping us succeed here, but it's not his fault TFC couldn't build a winner despite being given all the right tools.

This also means we should get as much value as we can for Nana and Frei though. If your theory is to capitalize on players at the height of their value, then it also applies to other players no? Because if Nana or Frei don't have a good year next year, won't we have lost the opportunity to capitalize like you believe we should with DeRo?

[Whoop]

The league has turned down DP spots before for both Twellman and Joseph. I highly doubt they'd let San Jose assign one to a 33 year old DeRo.

If he goes, he goes. He's a good goalscorer but his overall value is badly overrated here due to ancillary issues, like playing out of position constantly, ball hoggery, occasionally checking out of games.

No player's perfect and DeRo's a big player in this league. But it's not he "saved us" - we still haven't made the playoffs in four years and a midfielder is doing all of our scoring.

You're forgetting June 18th, 2009!

[trane]

De Ro can do what he wants. I am not saying that he was the problem but he alone is not the sollution. Our problems are much more fundamental then that. Untill we get a new management team, and see the direction we take, any individual move will not excite me or depress me.

Lets get our managment team in place first. No more cart before the horse stuff.

[Whoop]

If your answer for this team is to completely blow it up, then by all means, get what you can get for DeRo and let him play for a competitive team. It's obvious playing for a loser like TFC frustrates the hell out of him. It's too bad that he has to go elsewhere to succeed instead of helping us succeed here, but it's not his fault TFC couldn't build a winner despite being given all the right tools.

This also means we should get as much value as we can for Nana and Frei though. If your theory is to capitalize on players at the height of their value, then it also applies to other players no? Because if Nana or Frei don't have a good year next year, won't we have lost the opportunity to capitalize like you believe we should with DeRo?

Holy crap Roogsy don't let your love for DeRo blind you. LOL

There are a handful of players that TFC has that they can build around like Nana and Frei. Blowing up the team would likely mean a step back - and likely miss the playoffs again, potentially as the team would be in a period of transition. Though with MLS who knows.

If I were the GM I would present it to DeRo in that matter. "Listen we're going to start fresh, it might mean we might miss the playoffs but hopefully we're building a foundation. Are you in or out?"

I have a feeling I know what his answer would be. :D

[Whoop]

De Ro can do what he wants. I am not saying that he was the problem but he alone is not the sollution. Our problems are much more fundamental then that. Untill we get a new management team, and see the direction we take, any individual move will not excite me or depress me.

Lets get our managment team in place first. No more cart before the horse stuff.

Thank you trane.

[ensco]

You're forgetting June 18th, 2009!

That game was an embarassment to the sport. We pounded a USL team that lay down, only to get eliminated in the next round by another USL team.

Those who want to celebrate it like it was the rising of Lazarus, enjoy yourselves, but it was hardly meaningful in the scheme of things.

[Roogsy]

Holy crap Roogsy don't let your love for DeRo blind you. LOL

Blind me to what? Is there something in that post that does not make logical sense?

[Whoop]

That game was an embarassment to the sport. We pounded a USL team that lay down, only to get eliminated in the next round by another USL team.

Those who want to celebrate it like it was the rising of Lazarus, enjoy yourselves, but it was hardly meaningful in the scheme of things.

What a Debbie Downer. LOL

But we'll forget about October 24th, 2009. No one was at fault for that.

[Roogsy]

That game was an embarassment to the sport. We pounded a USL team that lay down, only to get eliminated in the next round by another USL team.

Those who want to celebrate it like it was the rising of Lazarus, enjoy yourselves, but it was hardly meaningful in the scheme of things.

I never viewed the win against Montreal as a demonstration of our team's abilities. There was simply no denying that Montreal let TFC roll over them. However...

Does anyone think we score the 5+ goals without DeRo? Because even when laying down for us, if we didn't have him, I am fairly sure we would have won but not by the margin needed to make it into CCL.

[Whoop]

Blind me to what? Is there something in that post that does not make logical sense?

Where did I say get rid of Frei and Nana?

When I said blow up the team it doesn't mean everyone goes.

By the way, aren't Frei and Nana looking for new contracts?

[bman27]

this all seems like a bunch of sensationalism to me......

[Roogsy]

Where did I say get rid of Frei and Nana?

When I said blow up the team it doesn't mean everyone goes.

By the way, aren't Frei and Nana looking for new contracts?


Yes but we hold their rights.

All I am saying is that when you make a point about one player, it applies to others as well. Cap management strategies only work when applied to all players under the cap. If Nana asks for too much money, he should go. Same with Frei, no?

[mastermixer]

Wow! Barely a rumour and the thread has 7 pages... I haven't seen so much difference of opinion for any other player that's for sure.

[Technorgasm]

This is not even a rumor and we are already getting excited.Techno be careful with info like this,it wil get you baned eventualy for spaming ;-)

San Jose is not the only team involved, as interest from other clubs has been recieved as well.

[Whoop]

Yes but we hold their rights.

All I am saying is that when you make a point about one player, it applies to others as well. Cap management strategies only work when applied to all players under the cap. If Nana asks for too much money, he should go. Same with Frei, no?

True. Those are possibilities.

That's the reality of a cap system.

Though in a cap system a) they are younger and b) likely wouldn't be demanding exorbitant amounts of money so you would want to keep them around.

[Roogsy]

Wow! Barely a rumour and the thread has 7 pages... I haven't seen so much difference of opinion for any other player that's for sure.


I sort of see this thread as a continuance of the old thread about DeRo. The thing is that other than the new coach, this issue is probably the single biggest issue for TFC this off-season than anything else. And it's probably the most polarizing as well. Hence the attention, the opinions and the length of threads.

I mean, we could all keep busy with threads about what a great guy Dan Gargan is.

[Roogsy]

True. Those are possibilities.

That's the reality of a cap system.

Though in a cap system a) they are younger and b) likely wouldn't be demanding exorbitant amounts of money so you would want to keep them around.


Which brings me to a different point:

1) When you're young, you usually don't demand exorbitant amounts of money.
2) When you're old, we think demanding exorbitant amounts of money is unwise.

So the question is, when do you award a player "exorbitant" amounts of money? I guess this is what it all boils down to. Because if there is a standard or gauge, then DeRo should be measured against it to see if he passes or fails and it answers the question for us no?

[BFin]

Yes but we hold their rights.

All I am saying is that when you make a point about one player, it applies to others as well. Cap management strategies only work when applied to all players under the cap. If Nana asks for too much money, he should go. Same with Frei, no?

They also aren't turning 33 years old this year.

You don't build foundations around players going into their twilight is his point Roogs.

They wont ask to be DP's...so sure, keep them.

[Roogsy]

They also aren't turning 33 years old this year.

You don't build foundations around players going into their twilight is his point Roogs.

They wont ask to be DP's...so sure, keep them.

How do you build a foundation? Is it all just young players? Because if that's it, then let's do it. Let's have a completely young team from back to front. Everyone under 25, no old fogies please. And I guess we will never get a DP, because there ain't no 22 year old superstars coming to TFC that's for sure.

I guess we will be the first young team in MLS to win something. There is always a first time.

[jabbronies]

Good years? Average really for a striker.

He scored 42 goals for the Crew in 5 seasons there. That is less than 9 per season. He scored 6 goals for NY in a single season there, none for Toronto when he came here and then all of a sudden lit up when he went to LA.

Good years? I suppose it's subjective. I don't see those numbers as "good" for a striker. Is it really comparable then to DeRo's goal tally as a player who isn't even a Striker for the most part?


yup very comparable. Dero is an offensive midfielder. he gets the ball way more than a striker and gets just as many chances

Buddle has hit double digits in goals 4 times
Dero has done it 3 times - 4 if you include all comps.

Buddle - 90 career goals
Dero - 77

Most goals scored in a season
Buddle - 17
Dero - 15

[Roogsy]

yup very comparable.

Buddle has hit double digits in goals 4 times
Dero has done it 3 times - 4 if you include all comps.

Buddle - 90 career goals
Dero - 77

Most goals scored in a season
Buddle - 17
Dero - 15


And both are strikers.

So yeah, they're very comparable. No wait... :noidea:

And of course both were able to score into the double-digits per season with TFC right?

You missed my point about Buddle being a sub-par striker before hooking up with Donovan and Beckham. What do you think DeRo would do with a player like Beckham on the wing and a forward partner like Donovan? Personally, I think they'd run roughshod over the league and actually win something, which even Buddle and his many goals has not been able to do yet in LA.

[reggie]

San Jose is not the only team involved, as interest from other clubs has been recieved as well.
maybe we can trade him to vancouver for a first rd pick:picard:

[torontocelt]

You're oversimplifying the argument. Casey and Buddle are strikers.

De Ro is an attacking midfielder. We're getting his skills as an AM and as a goalscorer. Most AMs don't score a lot of goals. Look it up. Find me how many seasons Zidane scored over 10 goals!

I can see your point if you are going by a goals only basis but an attacking midfielder cannot just be judged by goals. As I am sure you know Zidane was very effective in dictating the play of some of the worlds biggest clubs in some of the hardest leagues in the world. He also perfomed at the highest level in the champions league against the best Europe has to offer. He was also crazy effective on the international scene at european level and world level and he had a knack of stepping up at the right time when his team needed him to, again at the highest possible level. Nobody would ever get on Zidane's back because he didn't score more than 10 goals every year.

[Whoop]

How do you build a foundation? Is it all just young players? Because if that's it, then let's do it. Let's have a completely young team from back to front. Everyone under 25, no old fogies please. And I guess we will never get a DP, because there ain't no 22 year old superstars coming to TFC that's for sure.

I guess we will be the first young team in MLS to win something. There is always a first time.

Jumping to extremes aren't we? LOL

It does suck getting old.

Point is DeRo at this point wouldn't be the guy to build the team around - not at this point. Unless you think you can win it all next season.

[ensco]

Does Dero have an agent? If yes, who is it?

[Whoop]

Roogsy!

[jabbronies]

And both are strikers.

So yeah, they're very comparable. No wait... :noidea:

And of course both were able to score into the double-digits per season with TFC right?


Even though they play different positions - they both play similar roles on the field. Attack the goal.

they both get the same amount of chances. Only Dero has the flexibility to drop back in the mid to get the ball.

Their Shots and Shots on goal stats are very comparable as well.

[Roogsy]

Jumping to extremes aren't we? LOL

It does suck getting old.

Point is DeRo at this point wouldn't be the guy to build the team around - not at this point. Unless you think you can win it all next season.

My point is that every team "building" needs veterans and it needs a modicum of success. If we decide to go the all-out "rebuilding" route, then we all have to expect another shit year of placing 11th or 12th on the table (or worse). Is that something TFC wants to do? Or is this season about building fast and competing to have some level of success and can you do that without a veteran and his 15 goals?

It all depends on the route you're taking. If TFC is rebuilding completely, then I stand by my point. Start from the bare bottom. That does include sending DeRo elsewhere to ply his trade where he can get paid and have success.

[Chevy]

LOL! And you accuse me of bias. This post made me laugh.

I'd love to take a poll on this board. Geovanni vs DeRo. Without taking salaries into consideration because they are both maxing out the cap, who would you rather have?

Your problem is that you view any comment against DeRo as a biased one, while failing to admit your own, fairly extreme bias toward DeRo.

I have seen both play and from a strictly skill level point of view DeRo lags well behind the younger Geovanni.

So I say go for it. Start a poll

[Whoop]

DeRo actually plays at his best as a forward, but he doesn't want to be a forward.

[Roogsy]

Roogsy!


LOL! No way man. I would've scored him a better deal.

[Pookie]

Yes he is. A jerk for giving us 31 goals over 2 seasons when no one else has come even close. A jerk for giving 110% in each game for us. A jerk for almost single-handedly winning us our first trophy. A jerk for wanting the team to honour their word to him.

Yes a jerk.

And people around here didn't believe me when I said there were other teams interested in him. :rolleyes:

So...who is going to score goals for us next year if he leaves? Because this team has shown an incredible ability to bring in good talent at a good price right?

I have no idea who we would sign to replace him but I love to bring up old debates.

Remember your point about him being protected "speaking volumes?"

I guess "The Coch" and I think alike :)

11-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Pookie
RPB Member

Fair enough but the point is about whether his being protected "Speaks Volumes."

All it means is that he is considered a potential asset. Either to us or to someone else. It doesn't mean he is the defacto leader going forward and it is impossible to live without him.

He might be back but for the record, my money is him landing on the west coast (Vancouver, SJ or back in Texas).

[reggie]

DeRo actually plays at his best as a forward, but he doesn't want to be a forward.
why do you say that ?did you talk to him?

[Roogsy]

Your problem is that you view any comment against DeRo as a biased one, while failing to admit your own, fairly extreme bias toward DeRo.

Actually not true. There is really only two people on here who I viewed as having their opinions too skewed against DeRo to show any objectivity, and you're one of them and that is backed up by some of your ridiculous comments, starting with this latest Geovanni one. For pretty much everyone else, I think it's an issue of sorting through the perceptions nothing more. I don't believe there is an excessive amount of bias against DeRo on this board except for a few people.

As for my own bias, I have never claimed otherwise. What I have claimed is that my bias is not personal, it's football related. I value his 15 goals. I see his accomplishments as a track record worthy of the weight I give it. People like you accuse me of bias because I know him personally. Well, I know every player on TFC personally, that doesn't mean I am biased in favour of any of them as much as I am with DeRo. So what is different with me? None of them scored more goals in 1 year than any other player on TFC ever has even on a combined basis. My bias towards DeRo began before I even met the man. Which is why people who know me know that I have wanted DeRo on TFC since before we ever had a personal relationship.

So yeah I am biased. I think TFC needs DeRo and therefore I want him on the team and I will argue in favour of him. Your argument has never been about the football though, it has always been about the cheque-signing. Jeezus...if this were the Lakers we would have gotten rid of Kobe and never won 2 more NBA Championships. You guys can't separate the man from the player. And you really should.

[Chevy]

Why is my comment ridiculous? Seems very logical to me.

Prove it by starting your little poll.

..and I'm not biased toward DeRo - I just like to counter your rampant fanboyism.

[trane]

De Ro is a SS/treguartista no matter how you call it on the web page, he plays the same role. He is an attacking player, not a CF but an out and out attacking player.

[Roogsy]

..and I'm not biased toward DeRo

You're right. You're biased against him.


I just like to counter your rampant fanboyism.

Everyone on this board is a fanboy. We're all sucking dick here. Whether it be Frei, Gargan, Dichio...whoever. If having a favourite player and defending them is something that classifies a person as a fanboy, then a fanboy I am as is 90% of this board. I am hardly interested in your classifications only in your facts, of which you rarely supply any. And pretty much only you have supported bringing Geovanni on as a DP. I won't waste my time with a poll.

[Chevy]

I will work on my English while waiting for your poll to show up.

**crickets***

[Ben - D.O.W.]

You're oversimplifying the argument. Casey and Buddle are strikers.

De Ro is an attacking midfielder. We're getting his skills as an AM and as a goalscorer. Most AMs don't score a lot of goals. Look it up. Find me how many seasons Zidane scored over 10 goals!


Actually I wasn't really taking either side of the argument - just asking some quesitons to see what people think. If you're looking at offensive minded players who can score 15 or more goals in this league one year would you be willing to consider DP status? I honestly don't know where I stand but I can't see the league being okay with this for reasons others (I'm thinking of Section 117's post in particular) have already outlined.

Also - shit this thread is hard to keep up with at work.

[reggie]

dero had all to play all over the park....because the team is and was shite.no#10 type player, and no wingers.
im amazed he scored that much with this roster.

[Roogsy]

dero had all to play all over the park....because the team is and was shite.no#10 type player, and no wingers.
im amazed he scored that much with this roster.


Give me 2 good wingers, a proper target man in the middle and put DeRo behind him and he'd score probably 10 but we'd get in the playoffs and make noise.

[Chevy]

You're right. You're biased against him.



Everyone on this board is a fanboy. We're all sucking dick here. Whether it be Frei, Gargan, Dichio...whoever. If having a favourite player and defending them is something that classifies a person as a fanboy, then a fanboy I am as is 90% of this board. I am hardly interested in your classifications only in your facts, of which you rarely supply any. And pretty much only you have supported bringing Geovanni on as a DP. I won't waste my time with a poll.

Facts? FFS, watch some tape of Geovanni.

Facts? He's played for both Barca and Man City (of course you'll say that's not relevant because SURPRISE, DeRo hasn't been able to leave the continent). I suppose those two clubs signed him because they couldn't pry DeRo away from Houston?

[Roogsy]

And Rohan Ricketts played for Arsenal and Tottenham. Your point? If we've learned anything it's that Europe success does not mean MLS success (and by the way, Geovanni really hasn't had Europe success, it's why he's no longer there). Different league, different style of play. Even the most talented (which Geovanni is) aren't necessarily going to succeed here, so what makes you so confident that where others have failed, Geovanni wont? Doesn't SJ's decision to drop him say anything to you?

On several occasions, I have admitted DeRo is not the 2nd coming of Pele. He isn't the greatest soccer player on the planet. But I do think he's the best soccer player in Canada and I think he knows how to play in this league. And guess what, TFC plays in MLS, not in La Liga (JDG anyone?) and he knows how to score in this league and how to win titles in this league. I thought that was what we wanted, not some dick measuring contest about who has been able to play in Europe? Because if that is how we are rating success, shouldn't NYRB or LA have some type of trophy commemorating their ability to have on their roster players that have played on the top teams in Europe?

[tfcleeds]

The last DeRo thread, if memory serves, ended up being around 36 pages. I wonder how long this one will be? At this rate, shouldn't take long for it to get up there...

[rocker]

And he's already signed for 2011.

Why throw away money when you're getting that production for the current price?

That's bad business.

Will De Ro score 30 goals cuz he gets DP money? No.

Actually, if the team got better around him, he'd probably score fewer goals.

[phonzo]

8 pages since this morning...keep going!

[Shway]

why doesn't MLSE just offer him $500,000 to show up to an "event"?

[Chevy]

Of course you ignore the part of my comment about actually watching the guy PLAY.

...I would say playing for Barca IS an indication of European success. Playing 12 games for Zwickau Swans IS NOT (if you're looking for a definition).

Regardless, I'm out so you get the last word.

PS - where's that poll?

[Roogsy]

You do know I am a Barcelona member and Supporter right? And you think I've never watched him play??? :noidea:

[TFCRegina]

I can see your point if you are going by a goals only basis but an attacking midfielder cannot just be judged by goals. As I am sure you know Zidane was very effective in dictating the play of some of the worlds biggest clubs in some of the hardest leagues in the world. He also perfomed at the highest level in the champions league against the best Europe has to offer. He was also crazy effective on the international scene at european level and world level and he had a knack of stepping up at the right time when his team needed him to, again at the highest possible level. Nobody would ever get on Zidane's back because he didn't score more than 10 goals every year.

Which is exactly my point. De Ro can be judged not just on the goals he scores, but when he scores them and what position he plays. He's an attacking midfielder who scores more goals than your average attacking midfielder. Hell he scores more than our strikers.

The problem our club has is not with De Ro, it's with the supporting cast, specifically on the wings. Some of us sit and hate on De Ro all day without realizing his contribution. Why is it that when we have our bad streaks it's when we can't get the ball to De Ro because he's marked heavily? It's not just his scoring, it's his assists, and the way he dictates the other teams' play.

Oh right, it's because our wingers can't deliver the ball, and last year we had a number of strikers who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, in daylight with no wind from 6 feet away.

Sure, get rid of De Ro and take away the ONLY offensive spark this team seems to have. Take away the only player who seems to be able to get the ball to Maicon Santos (arguably our only quality striker...Barrett lovers shush) with some degree of accuracy and consistency.

You call De Ro selfish, but I say he can be nothing but. Would you want to pass the ball to O'Brian White or Jacob Peterson? Fuck off...

[rocker]

Whether you're a fanboy or not, Roogsy, I still think you're way too focused and vehemently supportive of 1 player.

It's a team game. Our lack of league success WITH Dwayne proves my point. It's great to be a fan of the players.. that's what makes it fun. But sometimes I feel your position is so extremist on De Ro that you don't see the forest for the trees.

We had 35 points in this league without De Ro. We had 35 points in this league with De Ro.

I'm just tired of the obsession with individuals. It's an obsession this board has had since the beginning, even with Dichio (who I was a fanboy of too).

It's really irrelevant to our ultimate success whether De Ro is on this team or not. What's going to achieve greatness is having a good team from top to bottom. De Ro may play a part in that, but just a part. But we could also be like Colorado or Dallas or RSL and not have a DP player and still have success.

[trane]

^ This is the first post of yours that I can agree with fully.


This has been my view for a while.

[BFin]

My point is that every team "building" needs veterans and it needs a modicum of success. If we decide to go the all-out "rebuilding" route, then we all have to expect another shit year of placing 11th or 12th on the table (or worse). Is that something TFC wants to do? Or is this season about building fast and competing to have some level of success and can you do that without a veteran and his 15 goals?

It all depends on the route you're taking. If TFC is rebuilding completely, then I stand by my point. Start from the bare bottom. That does include sending DeRo elsewhere to ply his trade where he can get paid and have success.

It has worked so well for the other MLSE product, why not do an accelerated re-build here? Roogs, we are in dire straits right now my man. The team is nowhere near being a contender and DeRo could fetch a very good return.

If you want a quick rebuild, DeRo may be your best asset to turning the team around with (as Vic said) 2-3 solid veterans that can come in and drastically improve the overall on-field product, despite perhaps losing skill at one position. This team can not compete with it's starting 11 as is...upgrade a winger and a striker for DeRo, and I think it is tough to argue they are not better as a group.

[TFCRegina]

It has worked so well for the other MLSE product, why not do an accelerated re-build here? Roogs, we are in dire straits right now my man. The team is nowhere near being a contender and DeRo could fetch a very good return.

If you want a quick rebuild, DeRo may be your best asset to turning the team around with (as Vic said) 2-3 solid veterans that can come in and drastically improve the overall on-field product, despite perhaps losing skill at one position. This team can not compete with it's starting 11 as is...upgrade a winger and a striker for DeRo, and I think it is tough to argue they are not better as a group.

You're joking right?

The Leafs are still fucking awful. You're comparing total shit to mere mediocrity now.

[BFin]

Which is exactly my point. De Ro can be judged not just on the goals he scores, but when he scores them and what position he plays. He's an attacking midfielder who scores more goals than your average attacking midfielder. Hell he scores more than our strikers.

The problem our club has is not with De Ro, it's with the supporting cast, specifically on the wings. Some of us sit and hate on De Ro all day without realizing his contribution. Why is it that when we have our bad streaks it's when we can't get the ball to De Ro because he's marked heavily? It's not just his scoring, it's his assists, and the way he dictates the other teams' play.

Oh right, it's because our wingers can't deliver the ball, and last year we had a number of strikers who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, in daylight with no wind from 6 feet away.

Sure, get rid of De Ro and take away the ONLY offensive spark this team seems to have. Take away the only player who seems to be able to get the ball to Maicon Santos (arguably our only quality striker...Barrett lovers shush) with some degree of accuracy and consistency.

You call De Ro selfish, but I say he can be nothing but. Would you want to pass the ball to O'Brian White or Jacob Peterson? Fuck off...

You make no sense here. You're saying we need to improve our wingers and strikers by not trading the guy who can get us the most return, and biggest upgrade at multiple positions?

Our wingers wont hit DeRo if we sign him as a DP and don't upgrade any other positions either.

I don't think the group is calling him selfish, they are saying that it's time for fans to be selfish. He is not a DP right now. He doesn't have a choice to sign elsewhere now. We as fans should not want to sacrifice that slot this year for a guy who is a great MLS vet, and not someone who captained Mexico at the World Cup. DeRo does not suck. He is trying to get what Mo promised him....but guess what...I'm not Mo, and I don't care if his feelings get hurt. I want a trophy.

[BFin]

You're joking right?

The Leafs are still fucking awful. You're comparing total shit to mere mediocrity now.

Joking in what sense? That it has worked well for the Leafs? Yes, that was painfully obvious to everyone who read it.
Just to be clear Regina, I am not advocating doing a quick re-build. It was a joke.

[Roogsy]

I am supportive of any player who I feel is integral to the success of the club. If someone said "we don't need Frei" you'd see me making the same type of arguments. The problem is that Frei is a quiet dude and people concentrate on the only thing they see, his play. DeRo is out there, he leaves himself open to comments on everything EXCEPT his play and thus I have to continuously remind people that while ill-advised, his gesture came after a GOAL and that he continued to play hard right until the very last game. Oh...and he scored 17 goals for us. :D

[TFCRegina]

You make no sense here. You're saying we need to improve our wingers and strikers by not trading the guy who can get us the most return, and biggest upgrade at multiple positions?

Our wingers wont hit DeRo if we sign him as a DP and don't upgrade any other positions either.

I don't think the group is calling him selfish, they are saying that it's time for fans to be selfish. He is not a DP right now. He doesn't have a choice to sign elsewhere now. We as fans should not want to sacrifice that slot this year for a guy who is a great MLS vet, and not someone who captained Mexico at the World Cup. DeRo does not suck. He is trying to get what Mo promised him....but guess what...I'm not Mo, and I don't care if his feelings get hurt. I want a trophy.


If you make De Ro a DP, he hits the cap less. How many times do I have to say it. He uses up allocation money and cap space. This means that if you put him on a DP salary, he merely hits the cap space for a DP...freeing up money to sign other players.

People are so bloody stupid they can't get this through their head.

Oh and in case you didn't notice, we have some 1.2 million in cap space to work with to sign decent players now that we've dropped some useless players.

[v00d00daddy]

You call De Ro selfish, but I say he can be nothing but. Would you want to pass the ball to O'Brian White or Jacob Peterson? Fuck off...

In short....yes...absolutely.

He HAS to pass the ball to all his teammates. If he doesn't like how good they are he can complain to management. If he's not getting results he can ask to leave. It's that simple.

Allowing DeRo to play wherever he wants is mistake number 1. This is a team game.

Do you expect DeRo to pass the ball only to players of his stature or better? That's not gonna happen.

Also....basing DeRo's value or skill level on the number of goals he scores is as valid as calling Cunnigham one of the best ever because he's scored so much.

There are way more intangibles at play when talking about DeRo's quality as a footballer...both good and bad.

All of this is moot for me cause I don't care what happens(and don't think anything should be happening) until we get a GM and a coach.

Trane had it right many posts ago.

[TFCRegina]

In short....yes...absolutely.

He HAS to pass the ball to all his teammates. If he doesn't like how good they are he can complain to management. If he's not getting results he can ask to leave. It's that simple.

Allowing DeRo to play wherever he wants is mistake number 1. This is a team game.

Do you expect DeRo to pass the ball only to players of his stature or better? That's not gonna happen.

Also....basing DeRo's value or skill level on the number of goals he scores is as valid as calling Cunnigham one of the best ever because he's scored so much.

There are way more intangibles at play when talking about DeRo's quality as a footballer...both good and bad.

All of this is moot for me cause I don't care what happens(and don't think anything should be happening) until we get a GM and a coach.

Trane had it right many posts ago.

Intangibles, like scoring goals when they matter most?

Let's go back and look at WHEN he has produced, earlier in his career. How many clutch MLS goals has he scored? Please, review the highlight reels for MLS Cups that he's played in.

Thanks.

[Pachuco]

I am supportive of any player who I feel is integral to the success of the club. If someone said "we don't need Frei" you'd see me making the same type of arguments. The problem is that Frei is a quiet dude and people concentrate on the only thing they see, his play. DeRo is out there, he leaves himself open to comments on everything EXCEPT his play and thus I have to continuously remind people that while ill-advised, his gesture came after a GOAL and that he continued to play hard right until the very last game. Oh...and he scored 17 goals for us. :D

Bang on with the Frei thing. People keep talking about Dero being the only thing worth trading for something so we might as well do that. Well, it is my opinion that Frei can fetch just as much as Dero and Frei is easier to replace then Dero.

But you don't see anyone calling for Frei's head. Right, because this is all about a personality clash and nothing else. If Dero had the personality of Dichio people would be losing their shit over the chance that Dero may leave.

[JonO]

Trane had it right many posts ago.
I know. Trane: The voice of reason. Who would have thought that?

[TFCRegina]

Bang on with the Frei thing. People keep talking about Dero being the only thing worth trading for something so we might as well do that. Well, it is my opinion that Frei can fetch just as much as Dero and Frei is easier to replace then Dero.

But you don't see anyone calling for Frei's head. Right, because this is all about a personality clash and nothing else. If Dero had the personality of Dichio people would be losing their shit over the chance that Dero may leave.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

[bman27]

Give me 2 good wingers, a proper target man in the middle and put DeRo behind him and he'd score probably 10 but we'd get in the playoffs and make noise.

+1

I think the past couple of seasons have proven that he cant do it all himself, it seems like the more he starts running around the pitch everywhere, the tactics and footy iq go out the door and he starts just mindlessly running at defenders or going for a field goal half way down the pitch. What he has proved that as a part of a more balanced lineup he can be a winner and an effective player.

[J .]

Theres only one MeRosario, only onnnne MeRosario