Record Low Rating For 2010 MLS Cup

[DOMIN8R]

Sunday's Rapids/FC Dallas MLS Cup earned a 0.44 U.S. rating and 748,000 viewers on ESPN, down 35% in ratings and 34% in viewership from last year (RSL/LA: 0.68, 1.141 mil, ESPN), and down 24% and 18%, respectively, from 2008 (CMB/NY: 0.58, 907,000, ABC).

This marks the lowest rated, least-viewed MLS Cup ever on English-language television. The MLS Cup has now failed to draw at least 1% of U.S. television households for nine straight years.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.net/2010/11/record-low-rating-for-2010-mls-cup.html

[Cashcleaner]

Not hard to imagine when you figure what teams were playing. Not knocking Dallas and Colorado, but in terms of star power and brand recognition, they're just not up there with the Galaxy and RBNY.

Also, the league is becoming a bit of a joke when one of the two teams has to compete as the Eastern Conference Champion while both are from the same Western Conference and represent cities that identify themselves as western US locales.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Also, the league is becoming a bit of a joke when one of the two teams has to compete as the Eastern Conference Champion while both are from the same Western Conference and represent cities that identify themselves as western US locales.

Conferences are going. Single table is coming. No more jokes.

[menefreghista]

Anyone have the Canadian ratings?

[Cashcleaner]

Conferences are going. Single table is coming. No more jokes.

Yes, but we don't have a definite time-line on that. Hopefully soon, though.

[menefreghista]

Yes, but we don't have a definite time-line on that. Hopefully soon, though.

It wouldn't surprise me if that only lasts one season.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It wouldn't surprise me if that only lasts one season.

How can anything surprise anyone in this league? I may want single table but I'm not naive enough to think that they're changing from the conferences for any reason but to suck up to Blatter to get the World Cup 2022. I don't why I just want it. If it doesn't last I'll just enjoy it while it does.

[Juanito]

Not hard to imagine when you figure what teams were playing. Not knocking Dallas and Colorado, but in terms of star power and brand recognition, they're just not up there with the Galaxy and RBNY.

Also, the league is becoming a bit of a joke when one of the two teams has to compete as the Eastern Conference Champion while both are from the same Western Conference and represent cities that identify themselves as western US locales.

I am. They come from smaller markets, they have no recognizable stars that the "casual fan" will be attracted to.

Great. It had to be our MLS CUP that licks balls. I see the MLSE anti-Midas touch continues!

[Parkdale]

I'm not really surprised.

If you aren't already watching MLS soccer, you wouldn't tune in to catch Dallas and Colorado.

[Globetrotter]

Just get rid of the names West and East. Call it A and B if you need to. Conferences are fine. Single table means squat. You still use the top X amount of teams for a playoff system. East vs West of Conference 1 vs Conference 2 is not why it had low ratings.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Just get rid of the names West and East. Call it A and B if you need to. Conferences are fine. Single table means squat. You still use the top X amount of teams for a playoff system. East vs West of Conference 1 vs Conference 2 is not why it had low ratings.

No.

Single table means 1234 get to go on.

Conferences may mean 1256 get to go on.

Not squat to 3 and 4.

[Roogsy]

I bet they blame Toronto fans for the low ratings too.

Idiots.

[Wagner]

Anyone have the Canadian ratings?

Paging Dr. Carts...

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/78031738.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=82EB172C4407816C34186735DAEEFE17B6C857F98675A6A6 5925800A16B2AC9EE30A760B0D811297

[Globetrotter]

^12345678.

The top 8 teams advanced to the playoffs this year. I see no problem with that.

The conference issue would have been a bigger deal if it was structured top 4 and top 4. That would mean that KC and Chicago would have qualified instead of SJ and Champions Colorado.

By saying the top 2 from each division are automatic playoff berths limits teams that don't have one of the better record from advancing. Like the year before, it was top 3 of each conference, + 2 wild cards.

As is, if the 7th place (conf 2) team had a better record than 2nd place (conf 1) team, then the 2nd place team would, almost unfairly, not advanced. It's hard to imagine the 7th best team in one group is better than the 2nd best in another. This isn't college football.

The more wild card spots rather than assigned spots, the more you'll see higher point teams in the playoffs. You could have 2 conferences and still have the top 8 teams advance to the playoffs if you say there are NO automatic entries (even if you win your conference). IMO, the top team from each conference gets a playoff spot (according to point ranking, not automatic 1 and 2 slots), and the remaining 6 spots go to the best record, regardless of conference.

[jabbronies]

Shit markets, Shit kick off time, plain and simple.

if it were any of Chicago, Seattle, NY, LA, New England - the ratings would have been better.

I think if the game was at 2pm there may have been way more viewers

[Roogsy]

And attendance at the game.

[Whoop]

I don't think any team would have made a difference. As Hal points out...




The MLS Cup has now failed to draw at least 1% of U.S. television households for nine straight years.



As Pete says, if you ain't watching MLS why would you bother to tune in?

[Wagner]

maybe move the game so it's not competing with the NFL.
Eagles / Giants in Primetime....vs FCD / Rapids??

unless it was like Carolina vs. Arizona, or some other garbage match up...MLS will always have trouble.

one thing I've never understood about TV strategy.
something like 60-80% of the US lives EAST of the Mississippi.
yet, they try to cater TV to that 20-40% that are west coast.

isn't it better to catch the attention of 80 million young fans in the east, and maybe 10 million in the west.

than....40 million in the east (that stay up late) and 20 million in the west?

[Globetrotter]

^how do you figure? I've seen plenty of times where they move west coast start times to 11am - 6pm (think hockey) instead of starting 7-830pm their time to cater to EST households.

[Wagner]

World Series, MLS CUP, All Star Games...even MNF and SNF are kind of late for east coast people.

Hockey is small potatos.
and very localized.

855pm EST kick off for a sporting event in Toronto is mildly retarded.
I live a 7 iron away from BMO field, and I got home at Midnight.
how many 13 year olds that want to get into MLS couldn't say up until the end??

[Globetrotter]

I think they do the best they can to suit their primary audience (local), and a best effort Nationally.

The NFL AS game when in Hawaii would start before noon local time. That's ridiculous, but had to cater an audience (that really didn't care anyways) on the mainland.

NHL AS games typically have been on Sundays, and played mid afternoon. 1-2pm EST start. Same with the winter classics, excluding the original. The one I was at in Buffalo started at 1ish. These would be early morning games on the west coast.

MNF use to always start broadcast at 9pm EST, kickoff about 15 minutes later. I believe it's now 830 (or 8)? That would mean that it's making it easier to view on in EST.

I could go on, but I stick to my statement at the top of the post. Just my opinion though.

[Wagner]

If there is a national TV contract...that takes precedence.

MLS Cup 9pm local start....
MLB All-star Game - super late
MLB World Series - Super late
MNF - pretty late (but i do believe they realized that the games are too late and went from 915 to 840pm)
NBA Finals - 9pm tip

When it's local money, like hockey, and regional MLS coverage...
then the times suit the locals.

with that said...i think a case could be made to make all games earlier...there are more eyeballs and dollars east of the mississippi.

Where's Carts...he could solve all of this.

[ManUtd4ever]

I bet they blame Toronto fans for the low ratings too.

Idiots.

I certainly hope not. BMO Field was practically sold out and provided a good enough atmosphere considering the anticlimactic matchup. The ratings were a direct result of the teams involved and a very questionable time slot...

[__wowza]

I bet they blame Toronto fans for the low ratings too.

Idiots.

oh i guarantee we get blamed for this.
i'd love to go see what bigsoccer has to say, but i respect reason too much.

[gtaguy]

hmmm lets see..

kick off time 9pm eastern time 6pm Pacific.. Played on a Sunday when there were how many other sporting events going on (NFL) and there you have it people..

Instead of having this game on a Saturday where there would not have been too much more to compete against and quite possibly the ratings would have been higher.. MLS dropping the ball on this one..

[Pookie]

Brilliant ratings.

Let's move all of our league games to be opposite the NCAA, NFL, NBA and NHL and see how well we can draw fans to the stadiums and to their TVs.

Fortunately, that was sarcasm.

No way in hell they would ever consider such a foolish... nevermind

[CretanBull]

The odds were that by moving the game to Canada they were always going to have lower ratings because they're essentially giving up the ratings of the host city (viewers in Toronto don't count towards US ratings numbers).

[ginkster88]

I turned a stream on during a commercial break in the NFL game to see what the stands looked like. I'd say that my interest level was 1000% higher than the average American's. What were they thinking trying to go up against the NFL in primetime.

[Pookie]

I turned a stream on during a commercial break in the NFL game to see what the stands looked like. I'd say that my interest level was 1000% higher than the average American's. What were they thinking trying to go up against the NFL in primetime.

Probably the same train of thought they are using to figure a way to go up against the NFL during the months of September through February

[maninb]

The game should have been a 3pm EST Saturday kickoff....doesn't conflict with the NFL or HNIC, and anybody watching College football doesn't give a shit about MLS anyway...and there would have been a MUCH BETTER crowd....even a few more supporters from the competing teams....

[tovan]

Anyone have the Canadian ratings?

http://www.brandonsun.com/entertainment/breaking-news/late-kickoff-unlikely-teams-make-for-minuscule-mls-cup-canadian-tv-numbers-109988074.html?thx=y

Late kickoff, unlikely teams make for minuscule MLS Cup Canadian TV numbers
By: The Canadian Press
22/11/2010

TORONTO - Airing on TSN 2 and featuring two unlikely finalists, the MLS Cup drew an audience of just 36,000 in Canada.
The Major League Soccer championship game, won 2-1 in extra time by the Colorado Rapids over FC Dallas, kicked off at 8:55 p.m. ET at BMO Field.
It was up against NFL football on TSN.

[menefreghista]

Thanks Tovan. Its been tougher to get sport ratings with the Star and Globe getting rid of Zelkovich and Houston.

[ensco]

What do you think the ratings were at 11.30pm?

I say 5,000.

[TFCin110]

I'm not really surprised.

If you aren't already watching MLS soccer, you wouldn't tune in to catch Dallas and Colorado.

Even if you are watching MLS soccer you wouldn't tune in to catch Dallas and Colorado. I didn't go, nor did I watch.

[The K-Man!]

38, 000 viewers on TSN2

[Kevvv]

one thing I've never understood about TV strategy.
something like 60-80% of the US lives EAST of the Mississippi.
yet, they try to cater TV to that 20-40% that are west coast.

isn't it better to catch the attention of 80 million young fans in the east, and maybe 10 million in the west.

than....40 million in the east (that stay up late) and 20 million in the west?

More than half of the teams are west of the Mississippi (the West conf + 'Sporting' KC), and two more teams next year.

[Detroit_TFC]

The Cup game was moved to the evening time slot last year because everyone said doing it in the afternoon was dumb. Fact is the game just is not that important to people who don't follow the league. The league needs to focus on making it a marquee event in the hosting city (ie don't have a 9 pm kickoff on a Sunday night) and worry more about building a tv audience through the regular season, those are the people who might tune it to the Cup.

[Brooker]

I'm not really surprised.

If you aren't already watching MLS soccer, you wouldn't tune in to catch Dallas and Colorado.

I didn't and I have a seasons tickets. :lol:

[Pookie]

The game should have been a 3pm EST Saturday kickoff....doesn't conflict with the NFL or HNIC, and anybody watching College football doesn't give a shit about MLS anyway...

Anybody? Like the majority of the US sporting population?

Have you ever travelled down there on business for an extended period of time? College highlights, previews, analysis dominate the coverage.

A quick google search shows that a Sept 25th game featuring Alabama vs Arkansas on CBS drew a 5.2 rating. The MLS Cup drew 0.5.

And that rating was likely low because other NCAA students and alumni were attending or watching games featuring their own college.

Top 30 NCAA Average PER GAME Attendance

1. Michigan 108,933
2. Penn St. 107,008
3. Ohio St. 105,261
4. Texas 101,175
5. Tennessee 99,220
6. Georgia 92,746
7. LSU 92,489
8. Alabama 92,012
9. Florida 90,635
10. Nebraska 85,888
11. Southern California 84,799
12. Oklahoma 84,778
13. Auburn 84,614
14. Notre Dame 80,795
15. Wisconsin 80,109
16. Texas A&M 76,800
17. Clemson 75,793
18. South Carolina 75,369
19. Michigan St. 74,741
20. Florida St. 74,345
21. Iowa 70,214
22. Kentucky 69,594
23. Virginia Tech 66,233
24. Arkansas 65,112
25. UCLA 64,547
26. Washington 64,356
27. BYU 64,236
28. Missouri 64,120
29. Illinois 59,545
30. California 59,472


This is why the whole idea of playing through the winter to adopt this FIFA calendar is asinine. There is no room on the North American Sports calendar during that time frame that will draw more (or an equal number of) fans than MLS currently enjoys. A move like this will bury the league.

[scooter]

thats the ticket anybody watching college ball aint watching soccer no how
plus sunday night with work next day and school
plus the cold at night vs day

i enjoyed the game
but
a saturday afternoon would have been much better and i am sure more seats would be filled

[Pookie]

thats the ticket anybody watching college ball aint watching soccer no how
plus sunday night with work next day and school
plus the cold at night vs day

i enjoyed the game
but
a saturday afternoon would have been much better and i am sure more seats would be filled

I doubt it would have had a significant impact on the seats filled. MLS' marketing reached it's pinnacle when the marketing plan of selling the Cup seats to STHs was announced.

We got what we got.

FYI, we wouldn't have got any more TV viewers. The NCAA stats are above. In Canada, 1.7M viewers on that Saturday would have been watching the Argos vs the Alouettes in the CFL's Eastern Division final.

[ag futbol]

Scooter, I would thoroughly suggest you do some research on College sports in the states. My general impression from living there was that for anyone not living in an urban center the pro game only gets mild interest. I lived in Chapel Hill when Jordan made his (first) comeback and quite seriously people mentioned it lightly but it was otherwise an afterthought. Was completely shocked! The maxim everybody watches college sports, some watch professional sports is pretty close to being true.

As for the low ratings themselves, nobody should be surprised. MLS is still improving but the quality is not great. They shouldn't get ahead of themselves by raising ticket prices either (MLSE *cough*). They still need to bring a significant number of people into the fold to make this thing a success on the tube. Raising prices cuts access, bad!

[jloome]

I think, in some respect, this is what I'd call a "venn diagram" debate. There's a lot more overlap between each side of it than realized!

In the mentality of the average American the sports market is divided into "the best of the elite level I can support locally/regionally."

Let me explain, because I know this isn't a commonly made point.

In the rest of the world, people accept that their local pro team may never be at the top level. And yet they support it with far more fervour than you would expect for a tier 2 or tier 3 (or 4, or 5) team here. If they win the Div. 3 title, that's good enough. It's a community issue, not a "social status/success" issue.

Consequently, there's enough money in each level to have pro leagues for Rugby, Volleyball, Water Polo and others that would never make it here. This is due to a different development structure, with multiple entry points for each entity at each level, as opposed to the U.S. system, which started with college play, then drew of its success to start pro leagues.

People in other parts of the world don't think "less" of a pro sport because it only draws 8,000 per game. In fact, that's normal for the vast majority of pro teams in Europe INCLUDING FOOTBALL. Their franchises don't move every time a bigger stadium or slightly larger shareholding is involved.

U.S. college sports allow people who only have amateur sports (technically) in their region to say they support the "best level available", instead of having to support some "Fourth Division semi pro" local team.

This mentality is so encouraged, they have multiple bowl games, so half the schools out there can be declared a "winner" at the end of the year. They don't even have a title game. They decide it after it's played.

This is all necessary because Americans can't accept the concept of perenially supporting something "second best." That's why, at the pro level, they abandoned tiered leagues.

It's why so many americans think relegation/promotion wouldn't work in MLS. It's "the best or bust", which is why NCAA soccer gets better support than Div. 2 pro.

As long as NCAA is sold as the "best of the best" of amateurs, it will be the biggest game around, because it has the broadest regional support, and therefore the largest group/herd mentality buy-in etc etc. It gives any American a chance to rise above "second best".

That makes developing any level between it and "the Majors" very difficult. They want to see their heroes go from "the best" to "the best".

Let's look at the relationships between fans and sports as a sliding scale:


The U.S would look something like this.

PROS: Insane fervour
NCAA1:Insane Fervour
NCAA2: Fervour
NAIA (or whatever the fuck it's called these days): Strong Local support
PRO DIV2: Weak local support
Pro div 3: Diehards only
Semi-pro: NEAR NON-EXISTENT support, even though it's made up of the second-best of the best amateur tiers.


The UK, put in U.S. terms, would look like this

PROS: INSANE FERVOUR
NCAA1: Polite applause
NCAA2: It's old-boys day at the alma mater!
NAIA: Basically intramural.
PRODIV2: FERVOUR
PRODIV3: Strong local support.
Semi-pro: Strong local support. Kid might still make it pro!

Getting around the "tier 1 or bust" mentality in North America is essential, for example, to Canada getting a pro league. We need to, at the least, dress up Div. 2 as "the closest thing to" MLS. Without that level of investment, it will simply never catch enough public/pop culture buy-in.

One smart way to work towards this for NASL/USL would be to play their local colleges and NCAA teams in pre-season and play to humiliate, whenever possible. Some teams (Charleston) as an example have figured this out already and it has paid off in more fervent local backing, albeit still tentative.

[jloome]

This model also explains the tentative buy in for MLS, by the way, because huge swaths of ethnic America still consider it "second best" to the team they traditionally support.

The uptake in recent years has been from getting past that.

[FluSH]

TWO-LEGGED PLAYOFFS (home and away)

It's the only salvation...

[Beach_Red]

This model also explains the tentative buy in for MLS, by the way, because huge swaths of ethnic America still consider it "second best" to the team they traditionally support.

The uptake in recent years has been from getting past that.

Some very good points. It also shows why no other pro football league has been able to even survive in the US. There have been many attempts, the World Footnall League, the USFL, there was an American division in the World League of American Football. There's another pro football league playing now to empty stadiums in a few cities. Any other pro football is seen as second-rate and not supported.

But the CFL is selling a lot of tickets and getting good TV ratings even though it's "second tier" so maybe Canadians are different from Americans and maybe
a pro soccer league in Canada might even do better than a pro league in in the states.

[jloome]

Some very good points. It also shows why no other pro football league has been able to even survive in the US. There have been many attempts, the World Footnall League, the USFL, there was an American division in the World League of American Football. There's another pro football league playing now to empty stadiums in a few cities. Any other pro football is seen as second-rate and not supported.

But the CFL is selling a lot of tickets and getting good TV ratings even though it's "second tier" so maybe Canadians are different from Americans and maybe
a pro soccer league in Canada might even do better than a pro league in in the states.

I suspect it's true. We've been exposed to U.S. pop culture long-enough that the worry over identity has kind of faded.

[Pookie]

I think, in some respect, this is what I'd call a "venn diagram" debate. There's a lot more overlap between each side of it than realized!

...

Getting around the "tier 1 or bust" mentality in North America is essential, for example, to Canada getting a pro league. We need to, at the least, dress up Div. 2 as "the closest thing to" MLS. Without that level of investment, it will simply never catch enough public/pop culture buy-in.



I'd like to add to your point by suggesting that the investment does not stop with the College level.

Soccer popularity at the professional level is a puzzling question. More kids in Canada play it than hockey. From a grass roots level, it should be huge.

Many of these kids have parents that probably never played the game or if they did, never really had anywhere to go with it. As a result, it has a "bush league" feel.

Soccer clubs across the country, sanctioned and adopting vision from our "leaders" (CSA, OSA, etc), are doing the game no favours by running their programs as "bush leagues" as well.

Generally speaking, there is no standard for coaching. The first warm body that passes the records check will do. Sometimes, that isn't even necessary.

Speaking of coaching, house league kids under 10 are lucky if they get a practice a week outside of their regular games. Many get the benefit of a "practice" run 20 mins before a game which invariably involves some form of lining up to kick the ball at the Goal Keeper of the week.

For those that are good, the prospect is a little different but tell me, with a talented player, where are their future options for development? Should they stay in a club system? What about an Academy? What about "Academies" that call themselves Academies but aren't endorsed by the SAAC? Why are club systems at a young age so focused on standings and winning? Successful models the world over focus on development and clearly, players thrive.

Contrast that with hockey. Even in house league, a kid gets 40 sessions of ice time. Coaches have mandatory certification, including courses on how to conduct themselves. For the rep system, it is all laid out. From AAA to AE, parents understand where their kid is at any given stage of development and generally know what their options are going forward. Hockey Canada as a governing body or Provincial Associations are active in local programs all the way up through the professional levels.

A parent's experience with hockey may not always be positive but you can't say that they take a half assed approached to development.

As a result, it has a following worthy of the investment put in it. I'd wager that majority of the adults that experience what soccer has to offer their kids treat professional options much like their bush league experiences with their children's local program.

They don't see a future in it. They don't see much effort being put in to development and as a result, aren't vested in supporting it in any big way.

I'd wager that if you saw groups like the OSA treat soccer the way that the OMHA treats hockey, you'd see a much stronger following for professional options develop over time.

[Shakes McQueen]

This was 100% expected. I'm sure it was expected by MLS too.

Two teams that can't even fill their home buildings, playing in a foreign country, in the final of a fourth or fifth tier professional sports league. That isn't going to attract many casual viewers.

I'm not sure that you can extrapole much from it. If the Florida Panthers and Phoenix Coyotes played the Stanley Cup final, you'd see at least a 35% decrease in ratings too. Or the Marlins and Rays in the World Series.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

This was 100% expected. I'm sure it was expected by MLS too.

Two teams that can't even fill their home buildings, playing in a foreign country, in the final of a fourth or fifth tier professional sports league. That isn't going to attract many casual viewers.

I'm not sure that you can extrapole much from it. If the Florida Panthers and Phoenix Coyotes played the Stanley Cup final, you'd see at least a 35% decrease in ratings too. Or the Marlins and Rays in the World Series.

- Scott

QFFT...

[ensco]

re the discussion about the difference in N American and rest-of-world sports fan culture in lesser leagues:

The whole difference arises because Americans (and to a certain extent Canadians) have gone their own way by playing/inventing sports that only they play, at least initially. The minor leagues in baseball, for instance, do extremely well, and look a lot like British football's Championship or League one.

For soccer to really grow in N American, the ideology of "American exceptionalism" needs to end. That belief system is why their the only country in the world not on the metric system, for instance. Don't hold your breath.

[james]

well not suprised, Dallas and Colorado have some of the lowest attendence throughout the seasons.