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deltox
11-24-2010, 05:55 PM
Toronto FC announced Wednesday they have waived Gabe Gala, Martin Saric, Maxim Usanov, Raivis Hscanovics and Mista.


http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/toronto-waives-five-players

ArmenJBX
11-24-2010, 05:56 PM
Holy tits batman :O

I smell a signing sometime soon.

sully
11-24-2010, 05:57 PM
Can't say I'm disappointed.

JonO
11-24-2010, 05:58 PM
Not much of a surprise really (or maybe it is a surprise, because it is what they should be doing)

Pachuco
11-24-2010, 05:58 PM
No surprises there. But are you fucking kidding me that Garcia wasn't the first one released? or is it because he's not on contract that he doesn't have to be waived?

reggie
11-24-2010, 06:01 PM
not shocked at all..sori to see GG go, nice kid but he was not in there plans with lindsay and morgan coming up.

twistedchinaman
11-24-2010, 06:01 PM
^ Maybe it's imminent that Garcia is retiring?

sully
11-24-2010, 06:02 PM
No surprises there. But are you fucking kidding me that Garcia wasn't the first one released? or is it because he's not on contract that he doesn't have to be waived?

Garcia had an ok year I thought. Moving him from the middle seems to have improved his game.

JonO
11-24-2010, 06:03 PM
He had a better year, but he is not good enough and especially at his salary. :seeya:

Voodooman
11-24-2010, 06:04 PM
Thank god...only one I would miss is Saric..injuries killed him

MG42
11-24-2010, 06:10 PM
Throwing out Preki's trash (not GG), good moves

CommradePolski
11-24-2010, 06:10 PM
Yay no more Uselessonov. Although his aggressiveness on defense was a welcome site. He went hard after the ball and subsequently the player with it.

Raivis - meh
Gala - grats on scoring against Real
Saric - woohoo we will have less yellow cards now since everytime he started he got one.
Mista - maybe he will sign somewhere else and work harder, it never seemed like he was running full on

sully
11-24-2010, 06:11 PM
I think we will see some signings and more activity in general soon, compared with previous years. Wouldn't you be doing everything you can too if you had to prove your worth to keep a job you want. I assume Cochrane actually wants to be GM in the long term?

Batman
11-24-2010, 06:14 PM
Good luck to Gabe Gala. His goal against Real Madrid was a memorable highlite of last season.

Nodoubtguy
11-24-2010, 06:17 PM
no issues with any of these moves.....

CretanBull
11-24-2010, 06:22 PM
no issues with any of these moves.....

+1 ... if I were GM this would only be the first round of cuts.

daner90
11-24-2010, 06:25 PM
Good job cutting the fat Earl, I like these moves.

I agree with voodooman, only one I will miss is Saric and not a whole lot.
Thanks for your time with the club boys, good luck in the future wherever you end up.

jazzy
11-24-2010, 06:26 PM
Garcia had an ok year I thought. Moving him from the middle seems to have improved his game.

for what it's worth, Gargan, delightfully honest btw, said he had no problems playing with Garcia...and enjoyed it, to my dismay....alas..what do I know........lets say everyone is happy Mista is gone...a big mistake, were the feelings of certain players.....so what we saw from his miserableness, was actually his effect on the players

CretanBull
11-24-2010, 06:29 PM
After some blunders early on, Garcia had a pretty decent year for us...not worth what he was making, but he wasn't the worst player out there.

Detroit_TFC
11-24-2010, 06:34 PM
This happening once the exp draft was done means that plans have been sketched out if not for signings then, at least for creating some cap space to do signings (soon).

Technorgasm
11-24-2010, 06:35 PM
OBshite will no doubt score against us.
Im putting a 5er on it

Island Man
11-24-2010, 06:35 PM
Exactly what we need, a good clear out.

Oldtimer
11-24-2010, 06:37 PM
Garcia's contract runs out Dec 31st. At 50k, he'd be not a bad signing.

jloome
11-24-2010, 06:37 PM
Good job cutting the fat Earl, I like these moves.

I agree with voodooman, only one I will miss is Saric and not a whole lot.
Thanks for your time with the club boys, good luck in the future wherever you end up.

Beware the cult of personality and the easy answer. Nothing to suggest Cochrane's knowledge or expertise had anything to do with this decision.

DangerRed
11-24-2010, 06:50 PM
Beware the cult of personality and the easy answer. Nothing to suggest Cochrane's knowledge or expertise had anything to do with this decision.

They get rid of dead wood and you're cautioning about the cult of personality?

This is fantastic news, whether Cochrane or his experience had anything to do with it or not. It's fantastic to see that rebuilding has begun three days after the MLS Cup final.

More of the same, please, and then get to drafting and signing. TFC still has some junk in the trunk, but definitely less now than yesterday.

:scarf::scarf::scarf:

Mark TFC
11-24-2010, 06:53 PM
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/toronto-waives-five-players

Red Rat
11-24-2010, 06:58 PM
about time that we start where this wheel is heading, good or bad

TorCanSoc
11-24-2010, 06:59 PM
Too bad about Gala, local kid. Has the skills to be a player in MLS. Good luck to him.

To the journeymen and drifters, good luck in Kazakstan, Romania Div III, and New Zealand.

Red Rat
11-24-2010, 06:59 PM
shit I am seeing double

Stryker
11-24-2010, 07:08 PM
Garcia's contract runs out Dec 31st
Now THERE'S a silver lining.

On another note am I to understand that we basically have no outside backs now? Wonderful.
And on yet another note any chance we can get a healthy Serioux back now that Mo's gone?
Third times the charm right?

UltraSuperMegaMo
11-24-2010, 07:16 PM
I always thought Usanov had some potential, though his salary seemed a tad high in terms of his contribution. It's easy to let guys go, but it's tough to bring in better players. Should be an interesting off season.

zeelaw
11-24-2010, 07:17 PM
shit I am seeing double
Four Krustys!

TFC Cityboy
11-24-2010, 07:18 PM
so the clear out starts. Can't disagree with any of those names. Good luck to all, except Mista- ya lazy tosser.

J .
11-24-2010, 07:20 PM
Wont miss any of them. I had early hopes for Gala, but he never seemed to improve. the rest can go play in the CSL.

Wagner
11-24-2010, 07:23 PM
I think Mista could be something if he had a full offseason and preseason to prepare.
I don't think he realized the pace of MLS.

adam1001
11-24-2010, 07:44 PM
Cant disagree with these moves either. Especially glad that mista's gone.

Roogsy
11-24-2010, 07:47 PM
Adios Mista.



These moves were needed. It's a start.

UltraSuperMegaMo
11-24-2010, 07:59 PM
How is Joseph Nane still on the team? Shocked the didn't expose him in the draft or cut him.

TFCRegina
11-24-2010, 08:00 PM
That'll clear some serious capspace. Next is Garcia's cap hit. Hopefully he retires and stays in the organization. I always felt the man was classy, regardless of some of the (I'd call it innuendo, but it doesn't qualify) blatant hostility and hatred towards him. His play was not always the best, but he exemplified what a professional should be like off the field.

Maybe he has a career in coaching or something. They always say many of the best coaches were lousy players.

TFCRegina
11-24-2010, 08:01 PM
How is Joseph Nane still on the team? Shocked the didn't expose him in the draft or cut him.

Might be waiting to evaluate him in trials and pre-season?

moralis
11-24-2010, 08:03 PM
There's some interesting info in Earl's media conference:

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp

MartinUtd
11-24-2010, 08:05 PM
That's a lot of foreign spots that have just opened up. I'm surprised they let Saric go. I was never really a fan but he seemed to be getting better as the season progress, no big loss though.

*Sigh* I was just watching Cruz Azul @ BMO highlights. The Saric goal was set up by Usanov and Mista... too bad they could never work like that on a consistent basis.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=2265

jloome
11-24-2010, 08:12 PM
They get rid of dead wood and you're cautioning about the cult of personality?

This is fantastic news, whether Cochrane or his experience had anything to do with it or not. It's fantastic to see that rebuilding has begun three days after the MLS Cup final.

More of the same, please, and then get to drafting and signing. TFC still has some junk in the trunk, but definitely less now than yesterday.

:scarf::scarf::scarf:

I'm always cautioning about the cult of personality and misinformation. How does that devalue the actual news, exactly? It doesn't.

I agree, more of the same. But I've also spent a professional lifetime watching people be elevated in public life for what they say , not what they know, and then watching the disastrous fallout.

So let's not assume the guy everyone likes was involved? Ok? Too much too ask?

Shway
11-24-2010, 08:16 PM
i thought gala was going to be able to have one more season, especially since the return of the reserve league, and maybe he couldve signed on for cheaper.

He just needed confidence

BeerBaron95
11-24-2010, 08:29 PM
Actually kinda grimey

I spoke to Saric earlier today just after the draft had ended... We spoke of this saturday night as he was pretty excited about coming to the year end party to meet the supporters... Afraid to even talk to him now that he has been waived

I, as stated before, like Saric and his style of play... for the money he was being paid, you got exactly what he was brought in for. A little prone to being card happy but he plays a physical game that i think toronto needed at times throughout this season

Injuries didnt help his cause either though

Shitty to see him go

69Chevy396
11-24-2010, 08:29 PM
why is gargan still on the team?

BeerBaron95
11-24-2010, 08:31 PM
^^ You serious?

Sullivan
11-24-2010, 08:34 PM
I posted this elsewhere

Hscanovics $120,250 - my brother, who has down's syndrome, has a higher footballing IQ.
Usanov - $102,250 - future 4th official or visiting team dressing room attendent.
Gala $40,000 - why protect someone we never see, even Daso isn't playing him.
Mista $987,337 - Whats the difference between Mista and Cinderella? Cinderella actually wanted to get to the ball.

Saric, meh, his wage was $90,000.

So that's $1,339,837 in waived salaries.
Plus White's $182,000 via expansion
That's $1,521,837.00 in cap space.

Garcia's expired contract was $198,750 per.

MartinUtd
11-24-2010, 08:36 PM
why is gargan still on the team?

Do you mean Peterson?

69Chevy396
11-24-2010, 08:38 PM
i grew tired of watching his predictably useless long throw ins, his poor ball control, his poor distribution, his poorly timed tackles and penchant for fouling errors, other than this i suppose i liked the guy

MartinUtd
11-24-2010, 08:41 PM
haha.. well it is MLS and that's typically what you get for less than $100k. He may be far from perfect but he's a lot better than the two European fullbacks they dropped.

69Chevy396
11-24-2010, 08:41 PM
Do you mean Peterson?
peterson has more upside than gargan, the later works hard giving 100% all the time but his quality was never more than an avg usl player. peterson can get a lot better i think

prizby
11-24-2010, 08:42 PM
and no nick garcia...

or for that matter fuad or nane

they kept nane over gala...jeez

69Chevy396
11-24-2010, 08:44 PM
Sadly, even with the dumping of a third of the starting roster we are continuing to ask for more. Was/is this team really that bad?

BeerBaron95
11-24-2010, 08:46 PM
Gargan is alot better at hi position than was OBW or guys like Gala, MISTA, nane, peterson etc

Not saying thats anything to be proud of but would rather he be on the team and get rid of those other guys that were useless.

I liked usnaov to a point

69Chevy396
11-24-2010, 08:48 PM
I posted this elsewhere

Hscanovics $120,250 - my brother, who has down's syndrome, has a higher footballing IQ.
Usanov - $102,250 - future 4th official or visiting team dressing room attendent.
Gala $40,000 - why protect someone we never see, even Daso isn't playing him.
Mista $987,337 - Whats the difference between Mista and Cinderella? Cinderella actually wanted to get to the ball.

Saric, meh, his wage was $90,000.

So that's $1,339,837 in waived salaries.
Plus White's $182,000 via expansion
That's $1,521,837.00 in cap space.

Garcia's expired contract was $198,750 per.

and if you take a good look at mistas photo in the other thread, cinderella has more hairy legs

El Diego
11-24-2010, 08:51 PM
I posted this elsewhere

Hscanovics $120,250 - my brother, who has down's syndrome, has a higher footballing IQ.
Usanov - $102,250 - future 4th official or visiting team dressing room attendent.
Gala $40,000 - why protect someone we never see, even Daso isn't playing him.
Mista $987,337 - Whats the difference between Mista and Cinderella? Cinderella actually wanted to get to the ball.

Saric, meh, his wage was $90,000.

So that's $1,339,837 in waived salaries.
Plus White's $182,000 via expansion
That's $1,521,837.00 in cap space.

Garcia's expired contract was $198,750 per.

Mista was a DP, so all that 1 mil doesn't count towards the cap, right? Since we signed him halfway through the year I believe he only took up ~200k worth of cap space meaning we cleared ~1.5m in salaries but only ~800k in cap space.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

69Chevy396
11-24-2010, 08:52 PM
gargan might be better with a new coach, but you are right about our fullbacks. it surprised me to learn wallace was moved by colorado, he may be better than anyone of our defenders or def mids, we have a lot to do this winter to get better

prizby
11-24-2010, 08:58 PM
$900,750 of salary space freed up for the 5 relased + OBW + Nick Garcia

Jeffro
11-24-2010, 09:03 PM
I liked usnaov to a point

I'd have liked to keep him around too, but he was on a bit higher wage than I'd like to pay him... decent depth player though.

Sullivan
11-24-2010, 09:03 PM
Mista was a DP, so all that 1 mil doesn't count towards the cap, right? Since we signed him halfway through the year I believe he only took up ~200k worth of cap space meaning we cleared ~1.5m in salaries but only ~800k in cap space.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yup, my oversight on the cap / DP impact.

Kooper
11-24-2010, 09:04 PM
There's some interesting info in Earl's media conference:

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp

He mentions that there are 7 or 8 players (all on the unprotected list) that they need to review their contracts before November 30th. Presumably the conference call happened before the release notice so that leaves us with.

Lost in the expansion draft
White

Released this afternoon
Gala
Hscanovics
Mista
Saric
Usanov

That leaves us with 2 or 3 more players to be reviewed in the next 6 days. My guess is that
JDG - Staying
Kocic - Will stay, cheap keeper and a good third keeper.
Sanyang - Will probably stay
Nane - ?
Ibrahim - Could stay or go. Could they re-negotiate his contract at a lower rate?
Garcia - Thanks for your serivce. You had a better year this year so let's hope for your sake Portland or Vancouver need a defender and leader at the back.

Bluenose13
11-24-2010, 09:17 PM
Now THERE'S a silver lining.

On another note am I to understand that we basically have no outside backs now? Wonderful.
And on yet another note any chance we can get a healthy Serioux back now that Mo's gone?
Third times the charm right?He still has a house in T.O. and would love to come back.

Roogsy
11-24-2010, 09:41 PM
And he's cut off the dreads! Didn't even recognize him. I thought it was a younger brother.

ManUtd4ever
11-24-2010, 09:48 PM
Good job by the interim front office in clearing out dead weight and valuable cap space for the incoming general manager...

ArmenJBX
11-24-2010, 09:51 PM
I have it on good authority that Joseph Nane is going to Columbus Crew.

Baggio2TFC
11-24-2010, 09:52 PM
Sportsnet is repoting TFC have signed Bas Ent.

Strikers
11-24-2010, 09:57 PM
I have it on good authority that Joseph Nane is going to Columbus Crew.


I hope this is true, Nana was horrible. I can't believe Mo & Preki would rather have Nane then Cronin.

Roogsy
11-24-2010, 09:59 PM
Losing Cronin still hurts.

Auzzy
11-24-2010, 10:01 PM
How is Joseph Nane still on the team? Shocked the didn't expose him in the draft or cut him.

Joseph Nane _was_ exposed/unprotected for the expansion draft: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/reds-reveal-unprotected-players

Ossington Mental Youth
11-24-2010, 10:05 PM
How is Joseph Nane still on the team? Shocked the didn't expose him in the draft or cut him.


agreed, mindbottling

UltraSuperMegaMo
11-24-2010, 10:09 PM
Joseph Nane _was_ exposed/unprotected for the expansion draft: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/reds-reveal-unprotected-players

Thanks, kind of missed that.

ACSertL
11-24-2010, 10:11 PM
I liked Usanov too. He was the best crosser on our team hands down (take that for what it is worth) and I thought he might be best deployed on the right side of midfield because he actually made some overlapping runs!

I will say that he was getting paid too much to sit on the bench for the league matches, and in a capped league it makes little sense to have a player making over 100k on your bench for most of the games.

I'd take him on a reduced salary that's for certain.

TFC John
11-24-2010, 10:20 PM
It still amazes me that they offer to put names on the back of TFC Jerseys when fans buy them. They should just have a velcro patch and interchangeable letters. I don't really have a problem with seeing these guys go but you can't build a team by constantly firing people. How do you expect a player to put his heart into an organization when he knows he can be gone at any minute? The teams we saw playing for the MLS Cup were not the most talented but they did have commitment to their teams and each other. That is an element TFC has always lacked - loyalty. Cronin said it at the end of last years "Some people are only here for the paycheque." I'm not saying we should have kept these guys. I'm just saying that nobody does their best work when they don't feel confident about their position.

Auzzy
11-24-2010, 10:26 PM
Sportsnet is repoting TFC have signed Bas Ent.

Where did you read or hear that from Sportsnet? We already had a a thread today about the Ent. Cochrane's is quoted on the TFC website that there's no deal (at least yet): “Bas trialed for us in the Bolton game. We have spoken to him and his agent but nothing has been finalized.”

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/bas-fishing

Ossington Mental Youth
11-24-2010, 10:36 PM
I hope this is true, Nana was horrible.

amen, dude was a disaster, PLS PLS PLS can we have rogers?

Stryker
11-24-2010, 11:16 PM
Next is Garcia's cap hit. Hopefully he retires and stays in the organization. I always felt the man was classy, regardless of some of the (I'd call it innuendo, but it doesn't qualify) blatant hostility and hatred towards him. His play was not always the best, but he exemplified what a professional should be like off the field.

Maybe he has a career in coaching or something. They always say many of the best coaches were lousy players.
WTF are you smoking? Keep Mo's snitch around... cracking idea. :facepalm:
They'll dump him the day his contract expires.
Good riddance.

Shway
11-24-2010, 11:28 PM
Peterson is a disaster for how much hes paided to what he does,
only reason i would rather have Peterson over nane, is because we dont have any wingers..........but even that peterson is a good reserve player

TFC07
11-25-2010, 12:10 AM
Garcia contract ends Dec 31. Anyway, I am happy to hear these 5 players being waived. :scarf:

jabbronies
11-25-2010, 12:16 AM
That leaves us with 2 or 3 more players to be reviewed in the next 6 days. My guess is that
JDG - Staying
Kocic - Will stay, cheap keeper and a good third keeper.
Sanyang - Will probably stay
Nane - ?
Ibrahim - Could stay or go. Could they re-negotiate his contract at a lower rate?
Garcia - Thanks for your serivce. You had a better year this year so let's hope for your sake Portland or Vancouver need a defender and leader at the back.


Have we signed Cann and Attikora yet? I thought their contracts were up this year?

TFCRegina
11-25-2010, 01:43 AM
Losing Cronin still hurts.

I understand but disagree. Replaceable Roogsy.

TFCRegina
11-25-2010, 01:45 AM
I hope this is true, Nana was horrible. I can't believe Mo & Preki would rather have Nane then Cronin.

Really, Nana was horrible? disagree

werewolf
11-25-2010, 03:56 AM
I understand but disagree. Replaceable Roogsy.

I don't think he is so easily replaceable, top pick in the draft, and we certainly haven't been able to adequately find an alternative since he left.


Really, Nana was horrible? disagree

I am fairly certain he meant Joseph Nane.

CretanBull
11-25-2010, 04:21 AM
I don't think he is so easily replaceable, top pick in the draft, and we certainly haven't been able to adequately find an alternative since he left.

I liked Cronin, but he didn't adapt well to playing on the wing and Cronin + JDG were too short of a tandum to be playing in the middle together in front of the (pretty weak) backline.

He's a very good player, but a poor partner for JDG.

torontocelt
11-25-2010, 07:28 AM
A big round of applause to everyone involved in getting rid of some of these ,ahem, football players. We still have a few left in the squad who have proven they have no place at TFC and hopefully we can get rid of them also. It is from here though that the real work begins, it is way harder to sign good players than it is to cut crap players. TFC have proven time and again that those in charge of recruiting players have been incompetant at best, I prey that we have learned from all of our mistakes over the past few years and sign some players who at least have the basics of the game down as well as some who have some genuine talent.

TFCin110
11-25-2010, 07:38 AM
I am happy with the release of these players....but i'll reserve judgement on how successful it was until we sign some new players and see what they we were replaced with.

ecospice
11-25-2010, 08:02 AM
$900,750 of salary space freed up for the 5 relased + OBW + Nick Garcia

How much of the saved money and cap space will go to new players?

We need to sign Nana (he is due a big raise) and I believe we need to sign Cann, too, (who also likely to get a raise). That will be money well spent, but it will cut into the saved money and cap space.

We need a striker who can score, a starting winger and two starting fullbacks.

Assume that the $900K saved is chopped down to $650K with Nana and Cann being signed. Can we get two starting fullbacks, a winger and a striker for that money? Perhaps if one is a DP we can...

Cashcleaner
11-25-2010, 08:31 AM
I see no faults with any of Cochrane's decisions here. I'll never forget Gala's goal against RM, though.

As for Mista, I'll never forgive. :mad:

Darlofletch
11-25-2010, 08:38 AM
move de ro to dp (earl seeemed very definite that de ro would be staying), that lowers his cap hit are we still paying for robbo next year? was gerba costing us anything against the cap? how much allocation money do we get for sucking again this year. hopefully at least some of those things are applicable and would bring the available cap space up.

I'd agree with striker, winger, two full backs, and i'd add another midfielder who's a good passer to play with de guzman as well. and we still need to add a bunch of depth guys obviously.

tick tock jürgen, tick tock.

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 08:40 AM
So let's not assume the guy everyone likes was involved? Ok? Too much too ask?

Coachrane was quite open about who decided:


This is the next step as we continue to plan for the 2011 season,” said Earl Cochrane, Toronto FC interim director of soccer. “This was a collective decision after discussions between the team management and the coaching staff. We thank all five of the players for their contribution to Toronto FC during their time with the club.”http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/toronto-waives-five-players


I don't know if Cochrane is going to be the GM permanently or not, but I do like his openness after MoJo's sneaky and underhanded ways.

Section 117
11-25-2010, 08:45 AM
Mark my words our managemnet team and coaching staff will remain the same when all is said and done.

menefreghista
11-25-2010, 08:58 AM
Mark my words our managemnet team and coaching staff will remain the same when all is said and done.

This scares me.

And people will accept it because it will come with a Klinsmann stamp of approval. We will get some bullshit PR talk about how Klinsmann made a plan for Cochrane to follow.

I hope I'm wrong.

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 09:04 AM
This scares me.

And people will accept it because it will come with a Klinsmann stamp of approval. We will get some bullshit PR talk about how Klinsmann made a plan for Cochrane to follow.

I hope I'm wrong.

I actually wouldn't mind Cochrane as GM, as long as he has the proper scouting resources. He seems to have the right deal-making skills, has enough of a background to know MLS's crazy rules, and above all he's ethical.

What would upset me is if Daso is still the head coach. I don't think he has the experience, and I didn't see anything at the end of last season to inspire confidence.

menefreghista
11-25-2010, 09:11 AM
He seems to have the right deal-making skills, has enough of a background to know MLS's crazy rules, and above all he's ethical.

How can we be so sure about this? Because he sounds good when he talks? That doesn't mean anything.

We would actually have to let him make deals and play the season out to see if he can really handle it. I'm not sure I want to take that gamble. All he has done so far is made an expansion draft list and released some players. The bare minimum.

We are one of the richest clubs in the league. We should be hiring better management than a guy learning on the job.

Fort York Redcoat
11-25-2010, 09:14 AM
^What GM should we be hiring? Cochrane may deserve a chance in that he's a new manager but has Klinnsman to lean on and get attention for him.

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 09:16 AM
How can we be so sure about this? Because he sounds good when he talks? That doesn't mean anything.

We would actually have to let him make deals and play the season out to see if he can really handle it. I'm not sure I want to take that gamble. All he has done so far is made an expansion draft list and released some players. The bare minimum.

We are one of the richest clubs in the league. We should be hiring better management than a guy learning on the job.

He has about the same background as RSL's GM, and that took them from where TFC was to the MLS cup in 2 years. They didn't sign a "big name" GM, just a competent bureaucrat (former player with a legal background) who didn't interfere with coaching decisions like MoJo did.

When clubs have gone outside the league to get a "big name" for GM, it's generally gone badly (NY is the exception). I wouldn't want to take that risk.

So unless we can sign Bruce Arena or equivalent, we shouldn't get caught up in the "big name" complex.

Coach is a different matter, I think we could and should look abroad there.

__wowza
11-25-2010, 09:17 AM
guys..
okay guys..
guys..
hey guys..
guys..
here's an..
guys..
seriously..
here's an idea guys..
what's say..
seriously guys..
what's say..
garcia..
guys..
nick garcia..
on the wall of honour!!

thoughts?

menefreghista
11-25-2010, 09:18 AM
^What GM should we be hiring?

One that isn't learning on the job?

Cochrane has more experience as a PR guy than a GM.

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 09:19 AM
One that isn't learning on the job?

Cochrane has more experience as a PR guy than a GM.

RSL's GM learned on the job, and look where that took them.

It's more the skill-set than the experience.

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 09:20 AM
nick garcia..
on the wall of honour!!

thoughts?

I hope the next GM quietly takes down that wall.

menefreghista
11-25-2010, 09:23 AM
^What GM should we be hiring? Cochrane may deserve a chance in that he's a new manager but has Klinnsman to lean on and get attention for him.

Klinsmann contract only runs for a few months. Is Cochrane going to be getting advice from Klinsmann if he has to make a move in June? Not likely unless the contract with Klinsmann is extended.

This club has led us down a shit road for 4 season. Lets not give them an easy way out and start lionizing Cochrane. Cochrane has done nothing to prove he deserves the job yet.

Fort York Redcoat
11-25-2010, 09:25 AM
One that isn't learning on the job?

Cochrane has more experience as a PR guy than a GM.

Yep. Like I said he's new and can lean on Klinnsman. I actually agree with you in that I'd like an experienced name like OT said, a Bruce Arena, a Stevie Nichol but Mr. "One that isn't learning on the job?"

Does he have a middle name?

Beach_Red
11-25-2010, 09:27 AM
How can we be so sure about this? Because he sounds good when he talks? That doesn't mean anything.

We would actually have to let him make deals and play the season out to see if he can really handle it. I'm not sure I want to take that gamble. All he has done so far is made an expansion draft list and released some players. The bare minimum.

We are one of the richest clubs in the league. We should be hiring better management than a guy learning on the job.


We knew from the moment they signed a short-term contract with a big-name consultant that we'd be keeping the management we have.

But as people say, it may not be a bad thing if the structure of the front office is done right. How people perform in their jobs has a lot to do with the circumstances they'e in (often even more than their own pesonalities has to do with it).

As Oldtimer says, the coach is the key. It may take a while to find one who's completely on board with the system someone else has put in place, it will never really be "his" team, but again, if he's given all the resources to do what he's asked to do, it could work (if he's not, well, we know what happens then).

The real test will be next summer when the team goes into its usual summer slump and the consultant is gone and we're left with Cochrane and whatever coach they've hired.

Fort York Redcoat
11-25-2010, 09:27 AM
Klinsmann contract only runs for a few months. Is Cochrane going to be getting advice from Klinsmann if he has to make a move in June? Not likely unless the contract with Klinsmann is extended.

This club has led us down a shit road for 4 season. Lets not give them an easy way out and start lionizing Cochrane. Cochrane has done nothing to prove he deserves the job yet.

Lionizing? Great word.

I'm giving him a chance. Like Mista. If he fails too bad but I can't see TFC hiring a new manager after what was said at the town hall meeting. The team of Cochrane/ Brennan is seeing us through the draft.

Section 117
11-25-2010, 09:30 AM
I actually wouldn't mind Cochrane as GM, as long as he has the proper scouting resources. He seems to have the right deal-making skills, has enough of a background to know MLS's crazy rules, and above all he's ethical.

What would upset me is if Daso is still the head coach. I don't think he has the experience, and I didn't see anything at the end of last season to inspire confidence.

What's the difference between Earl and Daso really. You can't judge Daso from the 10 or so games we had left as the team was junk and they weren't his players to fit his style.

Either keep them both or get rid of both. another thing you are praising Earl that has zero experience as a GM and then you say that Daso doesn't have the experience???

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 09:40 AM
Either keep them both or get rid of both. another thing you are praising Earl that has zero experience as a GM and then you say that Daso doesn't have the experience???

"Praising" is a strong word, Earl is my second choice after a coach/GM leader like Arena.

Experience means a lot more in coaching than in being a GM in MLS.

A simple look at league history will show you many GMs who have done well in MLS without previous experience, as well as some with experience (Lalas comes to mind) who were total washouts.

You are correct though, that we as outsiders don't have enough to judge Earl on yet, but I would trust Klinsmann's judgement on this.

The more suspicious minds on this board will think that Klinsmann was hired to rubber stamp what already was here and lend a "big name" to make it acceptable to fans. I think that Klinsmann values his reputation too much to whore it like that and that his job is genuine.

ManUtd4ever
11-25-2010, 10:04 AM
I agree that it is premature to comment on Cochrane and Daso's abilities within their current interim positions as they haven't had sufficient time to be properly evaluated. Nonetheless, I would be disappointed if TFC maintained the status quo. In that scenario, all the good will that developed with supporters after the town hall meetings and the hiring of Klinsmann will be viewed as smoke and mirrors and empty gestures...

reggie
11-25-2010, 10:26 AM
Mark my words our managemnet team and coaching staff will remain the same when all is said and done.
mark my words...if thats true and mlse are going on the cheap,im done at the end of this season.
has for yesterdays moves hardly earth shattering news..me and my dog could of made those moves..
why didnt we try to trade OB for some alo money??

Beach_Red
11-25-2010, 10:37 AM
I agree that it is premature to comment on Cochrane and Daso's abilities within their current interim positions as they haven't had sufficient time to be properly evaluated. Nonetheless, I would be disappointed if TFC maintained the status quo. In that scenario, all the good will that developed with supporters after the town hall meetings and the hiring of Klinsmann will be viewed as smoke and mirrors and empty gestures...

That depends on what he was hired to do. If he was hired to find a GM/coach for the long-term and after searching the world decides the guys they've already got on staff are the best ones for the job, then yeah, that would be "disappointing." But if he was hired to come up with a good plan to run the team and MLSE implements it - if it's a really good plan the individuals won't make that big a difference.

It's kind of like the difference between the director of a movie and the director of a TV show. The jobs have many similarities, but the movie is usually really "by" the director, while the director of a middle epsiode of a TV show makes it according to someone else's plan. They make different decisions and have different priorities on set. Right now it looks like TFC is looking for a coach and GM who ae more like the directors of a TV show than a movie.

mastermixer
11-25-2010, 10:48 AM
"Praising" is a strong word, Earl is my second choice after a coach/GM leader like Arena.

Experience means a lot more in coaching than in being a GM in MLS.

A simple look at league history will show you many GMs who have done well in MLS without previous experience, as well as some with experience (Lalas comes to mind) who were total washouts.

You are correct though, that we as outsiders don't have enough to judge Earl on yet, but I would trust Klinsmann's judgement on this.

The more suspicious minds on this board will think that Klinsmann was hired to rubber stamp what already was here and lend a "big name" to make it acceptable to fans. I think that Klinsmann values his reputation too much to whore it like that and that his job is genuine.

Completely agree.
This hiring of Klinsmann is the most press his consulting company has ever gotten and I don't think he wants to put it all on the line by hiring some unknown talent that fails in 12 months.

Darlofletch
11-25-2010, 10:49 AM
Seattle gave up allocation money for White. why didn't cochrane make a trade before the draft so that allocation money came to us?

Section 117
11-25-2010, 10:50 AM
mark my words...if thats true and mlse are going on the cheap,im done at the end of this season.
has for yesterdays moves hardly earth shattering news..me and my dog could of made those moves..
why didnt we try to trade OB for some alo money??

What if Daso, Danny, Earl and Jimmy right the ship and we are contending playing attractive soccer??? We don't know, but to have Bas Ent signed without a coach in place, the draft is coming up, a scouting trip to south america in the works it leads me to believe that what we have is what we are going to stay with....

TFC would be doing an injustice to the Nick, Danny, Earl and Jimm if they string them along and then dump them right before training camp. Also, what is the point of aquiring players if the staff in place are making the decisions and they won't be around??? Or they won't fit the coaches new system.

At the end of the day, I expect status quo. I hope for our sake and their's that we will see a new TFC next March one that will make me proud to be a TFC supporter as this was rough on the eyes to say the least

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 10:54 AM
Seattle gave up allocation money for White. why didn't cochrane make a trade before the draft so that allocation money came to us?

Who would you have exposed instead of White?

We could only protect 11.

We already had Preki's riff-raff exposed (no surprise that no-one picked them).

If someone else was exposed, then traded for allocation money, the exact same thing would have happened.

jabbronies
11-25-2010, 11:00 AM
Gary Smith was an assistant coach who took over the reigns as an interm at the end of the 2008 season and then given full time status. 2 years later Colorado won the cup...

Just saying...

Ossington Mental Youth
11-25-2010, 11:00 AM
Completely agree.
This hiring of Klinsmann is the most press his consulting company has ever gotten and I don't think he wants to put it all on the line by hiring some unknown talent that fails in 12 months.

yep been saying this for a bit

prizby
11-25-2010, 11:13 AM
Gary Smith was an assistant coach who took over the reigns as an interm at the end of the 2008 season and then given full time status. 2 years later Colorado won the cup...

Just saying...

he also was part of arsenal's system ... pretty good background if you ask me

Roogsy
11-25-2010, 11:15 AM
What if Daso, Danny, Earl and Jimmy right the ship and we are contending playing attractive soccer??? We don't know, but to have Bas Ent signed without a coach in place, the draft is coming up, a scouting trip to south america in the works it leads me to believe that what we have is what we are going to stay with....

TFC would be doing an injustice to the Nick, Danny, Earl and Jimm if they string them along and then dump them right before training camp. Also, what is the point of aquiring players if the staff in place are making the decisions and they won't be around??? Or they won't fit the coaches new system.

At the end of the day, I expect status quo. I hope for our sake and their's that we will see a new TFC next March one that will make me proud to be a TFC supporter as this was rough on the eyes to say the least

Not to mention we finally have a shitload of cap space. I am interested in seeing what is done with it.

reggie
11-25-2010, 11:19 AM
im shocked that some people would be happy with the status quo management to run this club.maybe MLSE slipped in some of there koolaide in the beer at the townhall meetings.

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 11:23 AM
im shocked that some people would be happy with the status quo management to run this club.maybe MLSE slipped in some of there koolaide in the beer at the townhall meetings.


It's not status quo from last year.

MoJo was let go. :D

Heathen
11-25-2010, 11:24 AM
he also was part of arsenal's system ... pretty good background if you ask me

I'm surprised he actually won something then

jabbronies
11-25-2010, 11:35 AM
he also was part of arsenal's system ... pretty good background if you ask me

As a player scout yes. So he has an eye for talent.
My point is he never had the experience of being a first team coach, was given the chance and prevailed.

Earl is very football smart. I wouldn't discredit him they way people are doing here. Just because he doesn't have the experience, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

I'm not saying he should be "The guy" for us. But I wouldn't give up my season tickets if we had to have him at the helm a bit longer (1 season) until we get "the right guy". i don't think he would destroy the club. I think he would be able to put a really solid foundation in place for the next guy to take us to the next level.

ag futbol
11-25-2010, 11:36 AM
RSL's GM learned on the job, and look where that took them.

It's more the skill-set than the experience.
The optics of that kind of decision are completely inappropriate in our case. Non-starter IMO and TFC should no better no matter how great it might seem to promote internally.

reggie
11-25-2010, 11:43 AM
It's not status quo from last year.

MoJo was let go. :D
whattt...mo is gone:D...our draft guru.
who will run the draft now:facepalm:

spark
11-25-2010, 11:45 AM
It's funny - I'm more of the thought that Daso could stay as coach but Cochrane as GM? No way.

The way I see it is that in a hierarchy you need the best at the top and their skill and expertise works it's way down. We could hire a great head coach but without top level support above him he's not going to accomplish anything.

Even with that said - I truly believe neither should stay on. If we were talking Columbus (which happened) or Colorado (oh there too!), then those are great places to learn on the job - but not Toronto. Not to mention, neither Cochrane or Daso have exactly had anyone imparting them great wisdom on the tricks of the trade. That would be the only exception IMO - if it was a case of say Bruce Arena leaving after five years and Daso was his assistant the whole time.

Section 117
11-25-2010, 11:49 AM
IMO the team already has a person on board with contacts in Europe... He has been in discussion with agents the last year and a half to bring some big name players to the club. The problem at the time was two fold: a drunk scottish guy and the anti soccer god preki...

You have to remeber a lot of players that have been signed by TFC people in charge worked only with people they knew... So from all the players from First Wave, to Nane Joseph - his agent is Preki's brother in law. So now that we have gotten rid of the dead wood why not give these guys a chance. I believe we will be a better team with them in charge, then grabbing some guys just because they have a name.

mastermixer
11-25-2010, 11:58 AM
We all know there is a LOT of pressure on the team performing well next year. Fans are ready to jump ship at any moment and any mistake from now on in will be completely scrutinized. They need a leader to symbolize change and reassure the fans that wins are coming.
However, if they stay stat quo then they are walking a tight rope with the fans.

jloome
11-25-2010, 11:59 AM
^What GM should we be hiring? Cochrane may deserve a chance in that he's a new manager but has Klinnsman to lean on and get attention for him.

NNNOOOOOOOOOO!

Good lord, it's like people in here drink drugged kool aid or something.

WE NEED AN EXPERIENCED GENERAL MANAGER.

Not a former PR flak who's great at schmoozing and seems really earnest. Shit, half the reporters in Toronto fit that description.

jloome
11-25-2010, 12:01 PM
Earl is very football smart.

So is Ensco. In fact, Eugene is smart-smart. But I wouldn't hire him as the GM of Toronto FC.

Seriously, it's human nature to gravitate towards people we like or admire, but the guy has done NOTHING to warrant that job. Nada. Zip.

Darlofletch
11-25-2010, 12:15 PM
Who would you have exposed instead of White?

We could only protect 11.

We already had Preki's riff-raff exposed (no surprise that no-one picked them).

If someone else was exposed, then traded for allocation money, the exact same thing would have happened.

we wouldn't have had to protect white, we could have traded him beforehand, and just had one less unprotected player.

having white taken did mean we could protect de guzman, which may or may not have made a difference.

Darlofletch
11-25-2010, 12:21 PM
It's funny - I'm more of the thought that Daso could stay as coach but Cochrane as GM? No way.

The way I see it is that in a hierarchy you need the best at the top and their skill and expertise works it's way down. We could hire a great head coach but without top level support above him he's not going to accomplish anything.

Even with that said - I truly believe neither should stay on. If we were talking Columbus (which happened) or Colorado (oh there too!), then those are great places to learn on the job - but not Toronto. Not to mention, neither Cochrane or Daso have exactly had anyone imparting them great wisdom on the tricks of the trade. That would be the only exception IMO - if it was a case of say Bruce Arena leaving after five years and Daso was his assistant the whole time.

that's an important part of it. there's lots of talk from tom and paul about there being not enough north american coaches and executives, so they think it's their responsibility to develop those people. but really, who have they been learning from, blind leading the blind so far. get good experienced people in, somehow build a culture of winning, then let people learn within that structure.

jabbronies
11-25-2010, 12:22 PM
So is Ensco. In fact, Eugene is smart-smart. But I wouldn't hire him as the GM of Toronto FC.

Seriously, it's human nature to gravitate towards people we like or admire, but the guy has done NOTHING to warrant that job. Nada. Zip.

I have no like or admiration for the guy. I just don't think he's as incompetent as people seem to think he is.
But there does seem to be a shit load of urgency in getting someone now to fill the role. Which worries me more than having him sit in the position for a year until we can find "The Right Guy".

Fort York Redcoat
11-25-2010, 01:22 PM
^What GM should we be hiring? Cochrane may deserve a chance in that he's a new manager but has Klinnsman to lean on and get attention for him.


NNNOOOOOOOOOO!

Good lord, it's like people in here drink drugged kool aid or something.

WE NEED AN EXPERIENCED GENERAL MANAGER.

Not a former PR flak who's great at schmoozing and seems really earnest. Shit, half the reporters in Toronto fit that description.

Hence the may in the wording. And honestly, read the sig before you post.

Oldtimer
11-25-2010, 01:23 PM
we wouldn't have had to protect white, we could have traded him beforehand, and just had one less unprotected player.

having white taken did mean we could protect de guzman, which may or may not have made a difference.

Good points.

That of course, assumes another team would have wanted him, given that they could have ended up losing him in the draft. I've noticed that MLS clubs tend not to trade until after the expansion draft is over.

I'm just not sure we can criticize the club for this.

Shway
11-25-2010, 01:33 PM
is this another season of getting rid of players, and not having any players lined up to sign?
just curious cause we got rid of 5, now we have 21, in a season where we can have 30 players?

JonO
11-25-2010, 01:45 PM
we wouldn't have had to protect white, we could have traded him beforehand, and just had one less unprotected player.
Sure - it would have been better for us but not for Seattle. They would have had to trade for White and then leave an extra person unprotected. This way Seattle can go to Vancouver and say if you pick White we will trade you allocation money for him. Win-win (Seattle-Vancouver).

Derko
11-25-2010, 06:00 PM
why is gargan still on the team?

Because he became a solid player for TFC,contributed more than our DP

scooter
11-25-2010, 09:00 PM
wake up people
gargan is a great team player and i am very happy he was protected

the current staff is very capable of taking us forward lets not make stupid changes and keep daso,brennan,dichio,earl on board

tfc is on the verge of greatness major changes today and even signed a new player in november the future looks bright and the staff is commited

LETS SUPPORT THEM ffs

prizby
11-25-2010, 09:57 PM
As a player scout yes. So he has an eye for talent.
My point is he never had the experience of being a first team coach, was given the chance and prevailed.

Earl is very football smart. I wouldn't discredit him they way people are doing here. Just because he doesn't have the experience, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

I'm not saying he should be "The guy" for us. But I wouldn't give up my season tickets if we had to have him at the helm a bit longer (1 season) until we get "the right guy". i don't think he would destroy the club. I think he would be able to put a really solid foundation in place for the next guy to take us to the next level.

from what i have read, he picked arsene's mind

Azerban
11-25-2010, 10:36 PM
wake up people
gargan is a great team player and i am very happy he was protected


gargan owns and we pay him pennies

show me where else we can get a guy that good for 25 bucks a week and a metropass

Mark TFC
11-26-2010, 12:09 PM
I don't understand how anyone can question Dan Gargan. The guy has great work ethic and gives it his all on a very consistent basis. He also loves this club. I hope Dan Gargan remains a part of this club for a long time to come.

TFC07
11-26-2010, 12:42 PM
I don't understand how anyone can question Dan Gargan. The guy has great work ethic and gives it his all on a very consistent basis. He also loves this club. I hope Dan Gargan remains a part of this club for a long time to come.

It's easy: he isn't skilled/talented player. Also I question his soccer IQ as well.

He is alright depth player on a MLS roster. I personally don't mind having him as long he isn't starting.

Pookie
11-26-2010, 12:48 PM
NNNOOOOOOOOOO!

Good lord, it's like people in here drink drugged kool aid or something.

WE NEED AN EXPERIENCED GENERAL MANAGER.

Not a former PR flak who's great at schmoozing and seems really earnest. Shit, half the reporters in Toronto fit that description.

WE NEED AN EXPERIENCED GENERAL MANAGER to do what exactly?

JK will put a vision, plan and blueprint together.

So is this experienced general manager necessary to follow JK's plan?

If so, what experienced general manager is going to come in and effectively rubber stamp someone else's blueprint?

Perhaps, you want an experienced general manager in order to go "off plan" and create his own? At which point we can push the "reset" button one more time. Yippee!

Beach_Red
11-26-2010, 01:14 PM
WE NEED AN EXPERIENCED GENERAL MANAGER to do what exactly?

JK will put a vision, plan and blueprint together.

So is this experienced general manager necessary to follow JK's plan?

If so, what experienced general manager is going to come in and effectively rubber stamp someone else's blueprint?

Perhaps, you want an experienced general manager in order to go "off plan" and create his own? At which point we can push the "reset" button one more time. Yippee!


This is really the experiment, isn't it. Throughout the season the other teams in MLS will be adding players, trading players and signing DPs as they become available, adjusting their game plans as the season progresses. Will TFC?

I guess if it works really well then next year many other MLS teams will hire Soccer Solutions to give them visions and blueprints to follow as well.

It just doesn't seem like running a sports team, playing a full season, can be done without many adjustments along the way. It seems like putting together a winning team with all the personalities involved is more art than science and needs more day-to-day feel for the situation (that can only come from experience) than it does any kind of masterplan or blueprint. Flexibility (especially in a league where player avaiability is always an issue) seems like the ost important thing.

Well, anyway, this seems like an entirely new model or a pro sports team so maybe it'll work really well.

I can't tell from the Soccer Solutions website if they'e still advising the LA Galaxy or if the contract was ended. Do you know?

ag futbol
11-26-2010, 02:55 PM
WE NEED AN EXPERIENCED GENERAL MANAGER to do what exactly?

JK will put a vision, plan and blueprint together.

So is this experienced general manager necessary to follow JK's plan?

If so, what experienced general manager is going to come in and effectively rubber stamp someone else's blueprint?

Perhaps, you want an experienced general manager in order to go "off plan" and create his own? At which point we can push the "reset" button one more time. Yippee!
You are missing the point entirely.

JK is here for a couple of months. He's going to assess where we are now, where we want to be, and who can be the person who will take us there long term. To figure out who that person will be he'll look at their previously track record and without a doubt probe and screen candidates to determine if they can get the job done. So in the intern klinsmann isn't going to do X and the other guy who comes after do Y. It's all going to fit together.

But at a certain point the consulting contract is going to end and the GM is going to be on his own. JK is not going to do the work of scouting players and signing contracts for us once he leaves. I doubt he's even doing much of that now, probably just instructing the staff to create flexibility for the new guy.

THAT'S WHY ITS IMORTANT THAT WE HAVE SOMEONE WITH EXPERIENCE! /rant

ensco
11-26-2010, 03:14 PM
So is Ensco. In fact, Eugene is smart-smart. But I wouldn't hire him as the GM of Toronto FC.

Seriously, it's human nature to gravitate towards people we like or admire, but the guy has done NOTHING to warrant that job. Nada. Zip.

Hey thanks man!

All we want is someone who has credentials to do this job. Nothing more.

Pookie
11-26-2010, 03:56 PM
You are missing the point entirely.

JK is here for a couple of months. He's going to assess where we are now, where we want to be, and who can be the person who will take us there long term. To figure out who that person will be he'll look at their previously track record and without a doubt probe and screen candidates to determine if they can get the job done. So in the intern klinsmann isn't going to do X and the other guy who comes after do Y. It's all going to fit together.

But at a certain point the consulting contract is going to end and the GM is going to be on his own. JK is not going to do the work of scouting players and signing contracts for us once he leaves. I doubt he's even doing much of that now, probably just instructing the staff to create flexibility for the new guy.

THAT'S WHY ITS IMORTANT THAT WE HAVE SOMEONE WITH EXPERIENCE! /rant

Oh my goodness, respectfully, I think YOU are missing the point.

Have you ever worked with a consultant before?

They are paid a shitload of cash to offer a solution. Those that pay the shitload are thus faced with a choice when that solution is proposed.

Accept the plan or go on their own way.

It is extremely rare that a CEO would commission a consultant only to abandon that plan and go their own way. It is essentially corporate suicide to commission someone and refuse to accept their recommendations.

Thus, even if JK leaves, Anselmi will still be there and Anselmi will ensure that the blueprint is followed.

In TFC language, JK was brought into to build a blueprint for the organization, to adopt a style of play and put the infrastructure in place that would see that style realized.

This blueprint will outline a type of player that they will look for. Scouts will be hired to find that player who can excel in the style the Club has adopted.

The new GM is not free to set his own style or sign players that don't conform to the blueprint. The GM will be assuming the style established by JK and enforced by Anselmi.

Anselmi went the consultant route. Whomever he hires as a GM must adopt the recommendations of JK or else Anselmi is the one whose neck is on the line.... and folks, he is way too smart for that.

Pookie
11-26-2010, 04:20 PM
This is really the experiment, isn't it. Throughout the season the other teams in MLS will be adding players, trading players and signing DPs as they become available, adjusting their game plans as the season progresses. Will TFC?

I guess if it works really well then next year many other MLS teams will hire Soccer Solutions to give them visions and blueprints to follow as well.

It just doesn't seem like running a sports team, playing a full season, can be done without many adjustments along the way. It seems like putting together a winning team with all the personalities involved is more art than science and needs more day-to-day feel for the situation (that can only come from experience) than it does any kind of masterplan or blueprint. Flexibility (especially in a league where player avaiability is always an issue) seems like the ost important thing.

Well, anyway, this seems like an entirely new model or a pro sports team so maybe it'll work really well.

I can't tell from the Soccer Solutions website if they'e still advising the LA Galaxy or if the contract was ended. Do you know?

I think his role as Technical Advisor ended in 2005-06.

I'm not sure this is radically different than other organizations who hire "Advisors" to set a vision and plan for the organization. In organizations that have boards and multiple investors, this kind of approach is borrowed from the corporate world.

With a single owner, I'd say it is probably less common. That person usually has a vision and sets about hiring someone (or a group) to see that vision fulfilled (Mike Illitch in Detroit comes to mind). There, the choice of GM is extremely important.

But a corporation rides the wave of consensus and often a consultant is sought. Sometimes it is to deal with the economics or PR around the team but other times it is to deal with infrastructure. It appears to be a growing business.

jloome
11-26-2010, 06:47 PM
It is extremely rare that a CEO would commission a consultant only to abandon that plan and go their own way. I

Not going to jump into the larger point here, but just need to point out that this is categorically not true. In fact, I've seen more consultants' reports shelved (because they were designed to appease in nature in the first place) than used over the last 20 years. I'm sure others in corporate governance can confirm consultant work is frequently discarded.

In this scenario, they'd have to be kind of mental, though.

69Chevy396
11-26-2010, 06:59 PM
I don't dislike Gargan, that is not the point. He is a defensive oriented midfielder, and every team needs one or two players who can fill this role. What I don't like about him was his lack of skill with the ball when the team needed to move forward, to create a goal scoring chance: his toughness, and grit, and work ethic was evident, but so was his ability to give the ball away easily, make poor passing decisions, taking fouls at times when the team needed momentum moving forward, his poor crossing, less than average ball control, and what I disliked more than anything, was his stupid, predictable, time wasting long throw ins. They were easy to defend, almost always resulted in losing possession, and a sure sign of a player who relies on luck way too much. He is okay only as a bench player, the way Brennan would have become if he did not retire.

Sullivan
11-27-2010, 02:58 PM
It is extremely rare that a CEO would commission a consultant only to abandon that plan and go their own way. It is essentially corporate suicide to commission someone and refuse to accept their recommendations.


Not going to jump into the larger point here, but just need to point out that this is categorically not true. In fact, I've seen more consultants' reports shelved (because they were designed to appease in nature in the first place) than used over the last 20 years. I'm sure others in corporate governance can confirm consultant work is frequently discarded.


For example....

The Canadian Soccer Association commissioned Deloitte back in 2004 for a study of the Association.
The Deloitte people had significant football knowledge.
The CSA paid $125,000 for this report.
CSA then shelved it, hid it, refused to release it because it was highly critical of the CSA - operationally, administratively, technically.
The report, "Canadian Soccer Association: Organizational Review Recommendations" April 9, 2005, essentially rips the CSA.

Sort of explains the ongoing dysfunction of the CSA.



Anselmi went the consultant route. Whomever he hires as a GM must adopt the recommendations of JK or else Anselmi is the one whose neck is on the line.... and folks, he is way too smart for that.

And herein lies the biggest liability for TFC supporters, more Anselmania.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-27-2010, 03:10 PM
If this is what is to supposedly happen with TFC what will anselmie say when it all fails because he didnt follow JKs outline?
Why would supporters continue to come back?

Ricky_Portugal
11-27-2010, 03:14 PM
lets go and get scolari to coach our team then i think we would do alot of damage in mls and champions league

ag futbol
11-27-2010, 04:12 PM
[B]The new GM is not free to set his own style or sign players that don't conform to the blueprint. The GM will be assuming the style established by JK and enforced by Anselmi.

Pookie I don't know how to say this to you any more directly than i already have. JK is basically acting as a headhunter. Headhunters should always consider fit. ie no Fabio Capello if you want Joga Bonito.

If we want an offensive minded team, we go get someone who is an offensive minded coach. We talk to him before we hire him about what we want, and we make sure everyone is on the same page. The new manager should not be constrained by anything but have the same vision JK does. Anybody worth their salt will do their best to address such an obvious issue, especially after what we just went through with Preki.

There is absolutely no way 6 or 12 months down the road Klinsmann is going to be doing things like mico-managing the new guys signings. He will be long gone or looking at things at a very high level that requires less time (and money out of MLSE's pocket).

I also highly doubt Anselmi is going to be enforcing anything more than Richard Peddie is enforcing Brian Colangelo (who was picked out by a consultancy firm). He's going to set some broad goals and the manager will have to report to them. He hasn't meddled at the technical level of the soccer operations to date, why is he going to start now?

Beach_Red
11-27-2010, 06:42 PM
Pookie I don't know how to say this to you any more directly than i already have. JK is basically acting as a headhunter. Headhunters should always consider fit. ie no Fabio Capello if you want Joga Bonito.

If we want an offensive minded team, we go get someone who is an offensive minded coach.

?

How many options does TFC really have for next season? Take the guys who are still under contract and the types of players available who will fit under the cap and how many styles of play are really possible?

Sullivan
11-27-2010, 07:45 PM
How many options does TFC really have for next season? Take the guys who are still under contract and the types of players available who will fit under the cap and how many styles of play are really possible?

^ this

Her Klinsi can't expect players to execute what they are not capable of doing. Unless it's a total rebuild........

Watch the tapes, 9 wins, 13 loses, 8 ties, 33 goals scored, 41 against. Most valuable assets are a goalkeeper getting ready to leave; an aging, self centred, money hungry ball hog; and a defensive mid DP that nobody is capable of playing with.

Thanks Mo.

On the upside, we will be a better... just sayin'

ag futbol
11-28-2010, 07:11 PM
How many options does TFC really have for next season? Take the guys who are still under contract and the types of players available who will fit under the cap and how many styles of play are really possible?
For sure, and that's something that has to go into the mixer as well when he's doing his decision making.

We all crave instant satisfaction, but I doubt were going to see much of it. If we're lucky maybe we get some good performances out of the young guys this year. Playoffs maybe (MLS is a crap shoot at a certain level) but we won't be contending.

Pookie
11-28-2010, 08:38 PM
Pookie I don't know how to say this to you any more directly than i already have. JK is basically acting as a headhunter. Headhunters should always consider fit. ie no Fabio Capello if you want Joga Bonito.

If we want an offensive minded team, we go get someone who is an offensive minded coach. We talk to him before we hire him about what we want, and we make sure everyone is on the same page. The new manager should not be constrained by anything but have the same vision JK does. Anybody worth their salt will do their best to address such an obvious issue, especially after what we just went through with Preki.

There is absolutely no way 6 or 12 months down the road Klinsmann is going to be doing things like mico-managing the new guys signings. He will be long gone or looking at things at a very high level that requires less time (and money out of MLSE's pocket).

I also highly doubt Anselmi is going to be enforcing anything more than Richard Peddie is enforcing Brian Colangelo (who was picked out by a consultancy firm). He's going to set some broad goals and the manager will have to report to them. He hasn't meddled at the technical level of the soccer operations to date, why is he going to start now?

I am going to respectfully disagree on a couple of points.

- Peddie and Anselmi have no authority over Colangelo as they removed themselves from the reporting structure when he was named President and GM. Colangelo reports directly to the Board. This structure also changed for Brian Burke's arrival with the Leafs.

- In TFC's scenario, Anselmi and Peddie will still be the VP and President respectively. At present, the TFC GM does not have a straight line into the Board and all decisions the GM makes must pass through their office.

- Why would they meddle? Because they love to do so and exercised that power in all things Toronto Maple Leaf. From Tie Domi contract extensions, to Belfour getting a contract on the eve of the lock out, to the infamous Cliff Fletcher 2nd hiring news conference in which Peddie mouthed the words to the speech that Fletcher was giving. The latter example is more funny than evil but you get the idea

- I don't believe JK is simply a head hunter, sifting through resumes and making cold calls to prospective applicants. I think he will hand Anselmi, the VP of Toronto FC, a plan and Anselmi, unlike Burke and unlike Colangelo, will still be front and center when it comes to results.

Mr Peddie and Mr Anselmi have a long and "storied" history of meddling and micromanaging their sports "properties." They have the organizational structure to continue to do that here... and they will.

Beach_Red
11-29-2010, 10:38 AM
- I don't believe JK is simply a head hunter, sifting through resumes and making cold calls to prospective applicants. I think he will hand Anselmi, the VP of Toronto FC, a plan and Anselmi, unlike Burke and unlike Colangelo, will still be front and center when it comes to results.

Mr Peddie and Mr Anselmi have a long and "storied" history of meddling and micromanaging their sports "properties." They have the organizational structure to continue to do that here... and they will.


So, do you think a short-term contract for a consultant was a good idea? Leaving guys who have shown a love of meddling (and an admitted lack of knowledge of the sport) behind to implement the plan?

Pookie
11-29-2010, 01:11 PM
So, do you think a short-term contract for a consultant was a good idea? Leaving guys who have shown a love of meddling (and an admitted lack of knowledge of the sport) behind to implement the plan?

^ absolutely not.

One of the pillars of a protest, IMO, would have been to remove the reporting structure that exists now and give the new TFC GM the direct line into the Board of Directors. Thereby removing Mr Peddie and Mr Anselmi from the equation.

(I wrote about it in April, http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=22192 )

That said, if JK does actually build a plan that is actionable, I trust that Anselmi will follow it in the interest of corporate politics. If there is a specific plan that he deviates from and the team still loses, there will be no saving himself.

In that equation, we have to hope that the plan is good and idiot-proof. I am holding out hope that is the case and that's why I was arguing that having a GM who can follow the plan is probably the most important characteristic in any search.

However, if the plan is simply a "vision" and ultimately the team hires an "experienced GM" who sets his own vision while still reporting into these 2 Failure Magnets... I think we will get what we've always got with all of their sports properties.