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denime
11-23-2010, 06:16 AM
Mornin'



MLS teams put players on display for expansion draft (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/article/895172--mls-teams-put-players-on-display-for-expansion-draft)


Big names available in MLS expansion draft (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/big-names-available-in-mls-expansion-draft/article1809501/)


Change is coming (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/11/22/dobson_blog/)


Expansion Draft Rules (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/expansion-draft-rules)


Complete MLS Unprotected List (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/complete-mls-unprotected-list)


Reds Reveal Unprotected Players (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/11/reds-reveal-unprotected-players)


Kelly: Sitting in snow to watch soccer? No thanks (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/article/895088--kelly-sitting-in-snow-to-watch-soccer-no-thanks)




SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

razor787
11-23-2010, 07:30 AM
Morning Denime

I hate the thought of the league going from late summer to spring. Matches here will be incredibly cold, and will dramatically decrease the amount of butts in the seats.

London
11-23-2010, 07:31 AM
KELLY: Reading your article? NO THANKS

flatpicker
11-23-2010, 08:32 AM
KELLY: Reading your article? NO THANKS

He makes some valid points... even though they are obvious points.
But what's with the last line about keeping Montreal away from Vancouver's wife?

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2010, 08:38 AM
We may have plenty of people here that would be for a fall/world football schedule but the average fans are not showing for playoff footie so how do we expect them to show for regular season games?

Dobson's mention of FIFA dangling the World Cup to change the MLS schedule is fantastic but it would really hurt the league's attendance.

Parkdale
11-23-2010, 08:59 AM
when Cathal is the logical voice..... bizarro world!

It just floors me that the league isn't mentioning the elephant in the room.
(actually it's more like a battleship, a volcano and the third moon of Jupiter all rolled into one)


Having the MLS on a winter schedule will put them in direct conflict with NFL, NHL, and the NBA.
Expect to see MLS games somewhere on channel 300+

tictoc
11-23-2010, 09:04 AM
He makes some valid points... even though they are obvious points.
But what's with the last line about keeping Montreal away from Vancouver's wife?
He was referring to something he wrote earlier about Montreal being sensual and Vancouver being easy-going. So Montreal would go after Vancouver's wife, and Vancouver would be easy-going about it.

Whoop
11-23-2010, 09:05 AM
In the winter they would put more games on during the middle of the week and on Saturdays during the day.

That's the only thing I could think of if they did that.

[NBF]
11-23-2010, 09:08 AM
SSG: Very cute girl........ but I can't help to think of this song when I see the only 9 photos of this girl:

p9RyajemxAM

REDS REVEAL UNPROTECTED LIST: This is a classic MLSE fuck up!

This is a move that says they are putting all of their hopes on Klinsmann to deliver 3 DP's and a Head Coach who will coach 3 dicks and 27 bitches.

The 3 names that I did not want to see on this list: FUAD IBRAHIM, CHAD BARRETT, AND JULIAN DEGUZMAN.


Julian DeGuzman: I don't think Vancouver will pass up on taking DeGuzman and you can count on him not being welcomed back either after this low IQ move by management to discipline him for the last 2 seasons.
Chad Barrett: Maicon Santos and O.B.White can sky the ball just as bad as he does, but this move just says we're not willing to move him to the right wing where he belongs. Maybe if he was playing on the right wing, we might of gotten Stuart Holden money for him from a Championship team.
Fuad Ibrahim: Everything so far in this kids career with TFC has been about getting him "toned and ready" and keeping him off the field. I'm sure this is a great career move for him, but you can pretty much call him the next Cunningham. If not better. Interesting pick for the Timbers or a team with proven player development system like the Whitecaps.

Parkdale
11-23-2010, 09:09 AM
In the winter they would put more games on during the middle of the week and on Saturdays during the day.

That's the only thing I could think of if they did that.


but middle of the week games are at night.

The temperature difference from a 1:00pm saturday game and a 7:00pm tuesday game could be 15' different.

I think that if they do move to a winter schedule, we can say goodbye to night games at BMO. (which would suck)

Oldtimer
11-23-2010, 09:39 AM
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/ab/6e/4ab01b554daaa1f881af7993b425.jpeg





The picture in the Kelly article says it all. You really don't need his "article" at all.

(BTW, who at the Star decided to put him back on the sports beat? He was doing just fine writing about the "Heartattack Grill" and other "lifestyle" articles).

MG42
11-23-2010, 09:42 AM
but middle of the week games are at night.

The temperature difference from a 1:00pm saturday game and a 7:00pm tuesday game could be 15' different.

I think that if they do move to a winter schedule, we can say goodbye to night games at BMO. (which would suck)

Night time is the right time!

Parkdale
11-23-2010, 09:43 AM
(BTW, who at the Star decided to put him back on the sports beat? He was doing just fine writing about the "Heartattack Grill" and other "lifestyle" articles).


don't forget 'shopping for the perfect speedo'

Roogsy
11-23-2010, 09:45 AM
I hope this winter business is just speculation and maybe some politicking because if it's seriously being considered, MLS has lost it's mind. In Toronto, TFC is going to go up against the Raptors and the Leafs? Really? You're nuts.

In the US, November and December are HUGE NFL months. The NBA is untouchable. And you have college basketball. All sports that would crush the MLS in the blink of an eye.

This idea better be more about prodding FIFA into awarding the US the World Cup than any real seriousness in this idea.

scooter
11-23-2010, 09:51 AM
mornin d

Whoop
11-23-2010, 09:54 AM
Personally I have no issue with the snow or even cold weather.

NFL and college football fans deal with it all the team.

This is what I can't stand.

http://www.phy.bris.ac.uk/groups/nanophysics/research/images_liquid/glass_freezing_rain.jpg

The one positive... a proper roof!

I think the bigger concern is going up against the NFL and NCAA football/basketball than any other league especially given that MLS is mainly a weekend league.

I don't think the NBA or the NHL are the biggest concerns. I mean I was still surprised at the size of the crowd in Montreal last year when a) they were effectively out of the Voyageurs Cup and b) there was a Habs playoff game that night.

C.Ronaldo
11-23-2010, 09:54 AM
MLS isnt a TV league, so it doesnt have anything to lose if it can put butts in the seats

People forget that the summer months have more of EVERYTHING to compete with, vacations, bbq, nights out, baseball, festivals.

I personally will be able to make WAY more Saturday 1pm games than Saturday summer games.


A proper roof would also do wonders to block out the wind, (which is really the only part of winter that sucks)

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2010, 09:56 AM
I hope this winter business is just speculation and maybe some politicking because if it's seriously being considered, MLS has lost it's mind. In Toronto, TFC is going to go up against the Raptors and the Leafs? Really? You're nuts.

In the US, November and December are HUGE NFL months. The NBA is untouchable. And you have college basketball. All sports that would crush the MLS in the blink of an eye.

This idea better be more about prodding FIFA into awarding the US the World Cup than any real seriousness in this idea.


There's already overlap that effects this league. If they try this Moscow schedule to get World cup it will seem like a reboot to the league. The leagues success these last years will be boosted again by a World Cup but will hurt with a schedule change.

Whoop
11-23-2010, 09:58 AM
I think this year showed that a World Cup is just as damaging to the league.

All the momentum that the league generated in the spring/early summer was effectively killed, especially considering a lot of people thought it would help.

Parkdale
11-23-2010, 10:02 AM
People forget that the summer months have more of EVERYTHING to compete with, vacations, bbq, nights out, baseball, festivals.

but most summer things are more flexible.

Pretty much every TFC supporter I know gets the schedule, then plans all that other stuff around it. Long weekend without a match? That's a camping / cottage / summer fun weekend.

and think of the added driving time, added time for searching parkas, snow and ice delays for the GO train, higher risk of injuries to the players etc etc etc.

it's easy to just get dressed warm and stand there, but there so much more to a gameday than that.

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2010, 10:06 AM
I think this year showed that a World Cup is just as damaging to the league.

All the momentum that the league generated in the spring/early summer was effectively killed, especially considering a lot of people thought it would help.

I'm not sure I agree. If there's a natural momentum to the season I think it remained constant with the last 4 years of waning interest once other sports start their seasons late summer early fall. These WC years just have this interval as an interruption a month earlier.

It would obviously be different if the WC was here than somewhere else.

Beach_Red
11-23-2010, 10:19 AM
I think this year showed that a World Cup is just as damaging to the league.

All the momentum that the league generated in the spring/early summer was effectively killed, especially considering a lot of people thought it would help.

It's hard to say here because our team fell apart and there was no momentum to lose. But imagine if TFC had come out of the WC break winning, made the playoffs and was in the Cup game? It would have been the biggest sports story in this city in a lomg, long time. It might have been the same for a couple of other cities in the league, too (just not the ones that atually made the final).

Parkdale
11-23-2010, 10:20 AM
^ agreed.

Redcoe15
11-23-2010, 10:56 AM
Change is coming (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/11/22/dobson_blog/)

Gerry Dobson is out of his fucking mind.

Nigel Reed has his take on this proposed change in the schedule.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/nigelreed/2010/11/what-price-another-north-american-world-cup.html

TFCRegina
11-23-2010, 11:11 AM
Milos Borjan declares for Canada.
http://www.mondo.rs/s189889/Sport/Fu...lu_Kanade.html


You are here: Mondo > Sport > Football

Serb from Superlige on the goal of Canada!

15 commentsPrintMake font size smaller Make font size default font size larger Make 23rd November 2010th 11:43> 11:52
Goalie Milan Rada Borjan thought and broke - accepted the invitation of Canada Football Association to defend the national team and country.


Great game working, but also secure the intervention 23-year-old Milan Borjana diverted the attention of football public, not only in Serbia, but also much broader. Even "across the pond."

Borjan recently received an invitation to defend Canada's national team goal. He was thinking, "broke", because, however, Serbia was his country, but when he realized that this provides a chance in life, he decided to accept the invitation.

Borjana parents are from Knin, the war came to Serbia, and then they emigrated to Canada. Borjan with parents lived in Canada for a while, and then returned to Serbia to deal with soccer. His parents remained in Canada, but they are all eligible for Canadian citizenship. Based on this and got the call to defend the national team, "Maple leaf".

On the goal of Canada Borjan should makes his debut 8th February next year when predvižen friendly match with Greece.

(MONDO)

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2010, 11:16 AM
^translation- We got one back! So there's proof that Canadians CAN go abroad away from CSA, fan pressure and choose Canada in the end. I'm going to celebrate any victory after the Teal and OBW news.

TFCRegina
11-23-2010, 11:19 AM
^translation- We got one back!

And he's playing regularly for a decent team in Serbia.

TFCRegina
11-23-2010, 11:21 AM
Also, Tosaint Ricketts left MYPA of the Finn Top Division for FC Politehnica Timişoara of Liga 1 in Romania. Had offers from Turkey, and MLS and turned them both down.

stugautz
11-23-2010, 11:40 AM
when Cathal is the logical voice..... bizarro world!

It just floors me that the league isn't mentioning the elephant in the room.
(actually it's more like a battleship, a volcano and the third moon of Jupiter all rolled into one)


Having the MLS on a winter schedule will put them in direct conflict with NFL, NHL, and the NBA.
Expect to see MLS games somewhere on channel 300+

I disagree with Cathal's labeling Toronto fans as smart.

SOFT would be a better word. Hint of rain? People stay away.
Fans didn't like the cold, so we built a dome...but only for days when the weather isn't perfect...if it is, we'll leave the roof open.

Leafs don't make the playoffs? They'll still buy tickets, and if they start the season with a 3 game win streak, people will come back in numbers.

jloome
11-23-2010, 12:24 PM
Good reporting by CP. "Chivas dangled Jonathan Bornstein."

Neat trick, given that he's already signed to play in Mexico next season.

reggie
11-23-2010, 12:41 PM
KELLY is back...time to buy a bird..

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2010, 01:06 PM
...time to buy a bird..


I have never heard this expression. Please explain. I'm hoping it's at Kelly's expense.

Pigfynn
11-23-2010, 01:08 PM
^^line the birdcage with his sections of the paper

Whoop
11-23-2010, 01:09 PM
I thought Brian Burke said the Toronto Sun was the paper in Toronto that was to be used to line bird cages?

Pookie
11-23-2010, 01:17 PM
If Dobson is right and they go to the winter schedule, my STs will be up for grabs.

No way I can juggle trekking the kids to hockey on weekends with attending matches live.

Sadly, I think it would mark the end of the MLS. NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA will swallow up any viewers they had left. The gate driven league will simply erode to the point of irrelevance.

It's funny really. Kids and adults play soccer in the spring and summer. That is when you are most likely to get the highest ratings and attendance. There is a reason summer hockey isn't as popular as winter hockey.

What is the value in following the FIFA calendar? Outside of players being available for international matches or trying to jump on the hype of UEFA or the EPL?

All the Euro leagues don't have top level professional alternative sport options to compete with.

Crossing my fingers it never happens.

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2010, 01:26 PM
^^line the birdcage with his sections of the paper

:DThanks. Funny.

tlear
11-23-2010, 01:28 PM
Summer vs Winter will always be a challenge because you have Toronto, Montreal and Chicago vs places like Houston, Dallas etc.. What is worse playing a game in July midday in Houston or Early march in Montreal?

I think Winter schedule can work but it would require investment in stadiums in Toronto, Chicago etc to make them more comfortable for fans

ManUtd4ever
11-23-2010, 01:37 PM
I hope that Garber and Co. will perform their due diligence in terms of a market census among MLS supporters before considering the ridiculous proposal to conform to the European schedule...

Gobi
11-23-2010, 02:05 PM
I would expect FIFA to demand we fall in line with International Days, but not the whole season.
Really, how hard is it to NOT schedule MLS games during international breaks?
Fall in line with this and keep the summer schedule... wouldn't that be the sensible solution?

Pookie
11-23-2010, 02:09 PM
Summer vs Winter will always be a challenge because you have Toronto, Montreal and Chicago vs places like Houston, Dallas etc.. What is worse playing a game in July midday in Houston or Early march in Montreal?

I think Winter schedule can work but it would require investment in stadiums in Toronto, Chicago etc to make them more comfortable for fans

Play the Houston game at night. Anyways, forget comfort, who is going to watch them?

Have you seen the TV ratings for the NFL, NCAA (Bowl Games and March Madness), NHL and NBA?

Have you seen the TV ratings for the MLS when they have no real competition and when the majority of fans are actually playing the game?

I'm sure the MLS is going to pull viewers away from the NFL, NCAA, NHL, CFL, NBA.... yep, sure am sure.

And since this is a ticket driven league, I must have missed the study that shows more people would prefer to go to a Saturday MLS game over a Saturday afternoon NCAA football or basketball game, an evening NHL or NBA game, a Sunday (or Saturday with playoffs) afternoon NFL game, or a midweek NBA or NHL game.

Brilliant idea.

tlear
11-23-2010, 02:44 PM
Well yes MLS is a ticket league so TV numbers wise it wont matter much. Real question is how many MLS season ticket holders are also season ticket holders for NFL, NBA, NHL. Since I have no clue I will not comment on this.

I know that watching every game during mid summer in Houston is a pain on the eyes because nobody can run in that weather. Switching to a winter schedule might actually change this league to be more speed based, which will not a bad thing for most viewers.

They would definitely need to have all north stadiums equipped with roofs and field heating before they do this

Pookie
11-23-2010, 02:50 PM
Why not just play Houston games at night... or if they are going to send Northern teams on winter runs to the South, why not send Houston north in July?

It isn't just how many ticket holders are also ticket holders for the other sports, it is why would a corporation put adversting/ticket money into a team that no one will watch?

Many ticket holders in Toronto may not be Leaf season ticket holders but I'll guarantee you that a relatively high percentage of TFC season ticket holders spend their winter weekends taking their kids to hockey games, practices and tournaments.

Another issue for most teams is exactly what Anselmi said, "out of sight, out of mind."

TFC has drawn as few as 20k viewers for games played on the road. Throw them in with the Leafs... or the Whitecaps in with Canucks and expansion Impact in with the Habs... and they will be lucky to get a mention in the sports section.

Juanito
11-23-2010, 02:53 PM
Do you guys know that in Central and South America, they divide the league in two halves?

The "Apertura" and "Clausura". The Champion of each one goes head-to-head for the overall championship unless it's the same for both.

I think this should be investigated as a possibility. It's not perfect, but it would make sense and for example, the southern teams can play in the colder times and vice-versa. It would be a little planning, but it is do-able.

Roogsy
11-23-2010, 02:58 PM
I would expect FIFA to demand we fall in line with International Days, but not the whole season.
Really, how hard is it to NOT schedule MLS games during international breaks?
Fall in line with this and keep the summer schedule... wouldn't that be the sensible solution?


Stop making sense.

Fort York Redcoat
11-23-2010, 03:04 PM
Do you guys know that in Central and South America, they divide the league in two halves?

The "Apertura" and "Clausura". The Champion of each one goes head-to-head for the overall championship unless it's the same for both.

I think this should be investigated as a possibility. It's not perfect, but it would make sense and for example, the southern teams can play in the colder times and vice-versa. It would be a little planning, but it is do-able.

Not a fan. 2 champions a year cheapens the league.

When comparing the Apt/Clau vs the 6 week break it's the only big difference between the two types of league.

Juanito
11-23-2010, 03:10 PM
^^

True. Point is, there are options out there.

Redcoe15
11-23-2010, 04:09 PM
I thought Brian Burke said the Toronto Sun was the paper in Toronto that was to be used to line bird cages?
With Steve Simmons fat ugly face as the bullseye.

denime
11-23-2010, 05:38 PM
I would expect FIFA to demand we fall in line with International Days, but not the whole season.
Really, how hard is it to NOT schedule MLS games during international breaks?
Fall in line with this and keep the summer schedule... wouldn't that be the sensible solution?

BINGO !!

TFCRegina
11-23-2010, 05:45 PM
Best and Worst of TFC 2010
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2010-review-best-worst-toronto-fc

backbeat
11-23-2010, 06:22 PM
I have to say although I initially scoffed at a winter schedule i now find it intriguing - late summer start to mid December and March onward could be OK.

Definitely need some stadium work - a partial roof, close in the end zones for the wind and I think we'd be OK.

I see snow in the EPL and Bundesliga games in winter fairly frequently - and swirling winds.

Quite frankly March in Toronto is the worst month - with some away game planning in March we could make this work

Partial roof all the way around - close in the corners - some heaters up above like hockey rinks and outdoor patios have and heating for the field and we're a go…

I'm liking it….

you can rework conflicts for NFL to a degree and for NHL/NBA we'd be off 1/2 December and all Jan and Feb...

could work

Pookie
11-23-2010, 06:38 PM
NHL Season goes from October through April... and for fans of teams other than the Leafs, well into June. The conflicts aren't only on game nights, it's about competing for press. TFC barely gets any coverage against the Jays and Argos. Imagine how much we'll get playing on the road through the NHL trade deadline and into the last month of the season?

How much NFL coverage is there during the week? Quite a bit. Same with NBA and NHL.

EPL and Bundesliga... tell me, which professional leagues do they compete against?

While it "could work" with a roof and propane heaters and... why in the hell should it work? Where in this proposal is the idea that in doing so, the league will prosper at the bank and in the stands?

denime
11-23-2010, 07:13 PM
4 months break is way to long for winter break.march- december with weekday games should be enough to manage fifa dates

ensco
11-23-2010, 07:53 PM
I'm going to try to find it, but somebody on BS did a big attendance survey that showed a 20% drop in MLS attendance in July and August. It's a soccer mom problem - holidays, cabins/cottages, kids camps, really affect a certain segment of fans.

Like everything else with these guys, they'll cloak it in high-falutin' speeches about their love of the game, but....it's about the benjamins.

rocker
11-23-2010, 07:56 PM
the problem is, nobody can predict what the new scheme would do to attendance.
So if summer drops attendance 20% in some markets, what if the reversal, with a primary winter season, drops attendance 30%?

Or it could be neutral... fans in the south come out more, but fans in the north come out less.

Personally, forgetting the weather thing for a minute, I just can't bear to have a potentially 3 month gap between my home games in the middle of the season. To me that just ends the interest cultivated in the first part of the season. I've also never liked the unbalanced home-away schedule, whereby teams are 4-5 home or road games ahead of the next team. It's hard to assess season races that way.

TorCanSoc
11-23-2010, 08:08 PM
Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal will be model franchises for this league. If MLS goes to a winter league, I say splinter off and make a league of our own. FIFA doesn't give a rats ass about Canada.

deltox
11-23-2010, 08:32 PM
the winter schedule will kill MLS

u can watch a game in houston in july...... you CANNOT watch a game in MTL in Feb.

deltox
11-23-2010, 08:33 PM
and houston and dallas Knew it was gonna be a summer season when they joined.

its not new info.

would MLSE bought a team here if they knew it was gonna be a winter league? no way

TFCRegina
11-23-2010, 08:59 PM
^ It's posturing for the bloody World Cup. Announcement is in 10 days. They'll do a feasibility study, and once they do or do not get the WC, they'll decide it's not feasible.

Waggy
11-23-2010, 09:03 PM
It's not the weather in such a schedule shift that worries me, it's the timing. Under the current schedule, the worst case scenario on a match day is if I have to decide between a Jays game, an Argos game and a TFC game. This is rarely a tough decision given how often the Jays play and how crappy the Argos are (though I passed up a few TFC games this summer to watch the Jays). Asking me to decide between NFL/NCAA/NBA/NHL/European soccer and TFC though is a totally different story. I'd still follow tfc closely, just watch fewer games. And read a lot less. And generally care a lot less. Forget the weather, the fact of the matter is the Leafs and Raptors still matter far too much for TFC to go up against them. Not just to me, but to the market. And asking MLS teams to compete directly against the NBA, NHL, NFL, and NCAA (football and basketball) is suicide. On a Sat aft in Dallas in November you think people care about MLS, or Texas/AM/SMU/Tech etc? The same example can be made with every team in the league. The summer sports scene is quiet. MLS have built a decent niche there, don't mess with it. Not to mention in the summer the guys who cover the winter sports have nothing to do and can give coverage to MLS. In the winter, all the sports people are busy with 'bigger' leagues than MLS.


*and if any of the above makes you go "psh, you aren't a real TFC fan" after you read it, do me a favour. Type up something as a response and print out a few copies. Maybe 5-10. Next roll them together into a bat type of cylinder, the kind you can really hit someone with. Once your paper-bat is complete you can place it upright on a chair and sit on it. Being a fan of other sports doesn't preclude someone from being a soccer fan

Detroit_TFC
11-23-2010, 09:18 PM
^ It's posturing for the bloody World Cup. Announcement is in 10 days. They'll do a feasibility study, and once they do or do not get the WC, they'll decide it's not feasible.

^ This. Apparently the US bid is in trouble (not due to anything that the US is doing, Qatar gold shines brightly, we'll know soon). Not surprising that US bigwigs are looking to bow low to FIFA right now.

CretanBull
11-23-2010, 10:03 PM
Long term, there's more money to be made in American than Qatar . I think - and really, really hope that America gets it.

TFCRegina
11-23-2010, 10:08 PM
^ Depends. FIFA can make more money in the US than Qatar, but individuals and federations can make more from Qatar buying votes than they'll ever get from the US.

Bloor West FC
11-24-2010, 09:59 AM
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/8301393/__Droomtransfer_spits_Katwijk__.html?sn=voetbal

Dutch reports say that Toronto FC have signed right winger Bas Ent (http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/8301393/__Droomtransfer_spits_Katwijk__.html?sn=voetbal), who would be the owner one of the best names in league history.

Redcoe15
11-24-2010, 12:52 PM
^ This. Apparently the US bid is in trouble (not due to anything that the US is doing, Qatar gold shines brightly, we'll know soon). Not surprising that US bigwigs are looking to bow low to FIFA right now.
That's the only way a country like Qatar could ever win out on hosting the World Cup. By greasing the chubby palms of Sepp Blather and his cronies at the top. If FIFA does gives them the World Cup, then we'll all know just how deeply corrupt they are.