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Oldtimer
11-12-2010, 06:53 AM
After spending some time understanding the style of game the club wants to play — attacking, counter-attacking, possession-focused — Klinsmann, along with business partner Warren Mersereau, will tap into their “global network”

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/889639--klinsmann-promises-tfc-blueprint-for-success

What style should TFC play?

torontocelt
11-12-2010, 07:20 AM
http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/889639--klinsmann-promises-tfc-blueprint-for-success

What style should TFC play?

The style has to be dependent upon who we have in our squad already, how good they are and also who we sign. Some of the players we have are clearly not up to it, we need to sign players that are up to it and we need to sign players who will be able to help facilitate the selected system. The system has to be realistic for the players skill set otherwise it will be doomed for failure. We can all wish we played attacking football, one touch pass and move but the reality of that is that there is an enormous chance that we will not have the personnel in place who could accomplish that kind of game. On top of that the new manager would have to be in agreement with the style and that is a big ask as a manager would more than likely want to play his style. The manager would also have to understand the system as would all the coaches and they would have to know how to get the best from the system. Furthermore is the manager going to want to play Kilnsmann players if they do not perform, is he going to want to stick with a system if it does not work? For me there is way too many issues still to be resolved, I really have no idea how this is going to work at this stage when we are missing so many pieces.

ensco
11-12-2010, 07:42 AM
Not to be difficult, but isn't this a tad overblown? Don't good teams do all three?

We're not Real Madrid here. The search for talent, or more precisely talent combined with character at a price we can afford, is our problem, and is far more important than this.

Oldtimer
11-12-2010, 08:29 AM
Not to be difficult, but isn't this a tad overblown? Don't good teams do all three?



While it's true that good teams have all 3 elements, each coach and team do tend to have one system that gives more "flavour" to the style of play than the other two.

It's important to know what system you want before you hire the GM and coach.

v00d00daddy
11-12-2010, 08:36 AM
I'd like to see a combo of possession and counter attack. we don't have the talent I the squad to dictate the pace of play and have our opponents react to us. we need to keep our shape, not give the ball away cheaply and force our opponents to push so hard that they're left with low percentage chances that can be easily countered.

I know that sounds like a lot of cliches but I think it's our only option with the guys we got.

btw...great topic oldtimer. it'll be interesting to see what ppl want to see

torontocelt
11-12-2010, 08:45 AM
While it's true that good teams have all 3 elements, each coach and team do tend to have one system that gives more "flavour" to the style of play than the other two.

It's important to know what system you want before you hire the GM and coach.

Working out this before hand allows you to sign a coach who thinks the same way but is might also limit your options if you are not willing to change your philosophy and you miss out on a top coach who might have a slightly different idea on how the team should play. Again though it has to be realistic when considering who you have in the squad and who can be moved on / brought in.

Joe Kool
11-12-2010, 08:51 AM
Voted for possession focused. Nothing can screw up a team more, in my opinion, than when they are chasing the ball all night. TFC have been on the end of that a number of times and it is frustrating to watch never mind play as a player. As long as they take their opportunites to attack when needed too so that you are actually winning games as opposed to going for the 0-0 tie then I like this style the best.

TFC Cityboy
11-12-2010, 08:58 AM
Honestly...the fact this this question is being asked of the fans tells you what a fuckin Mickey Mouse football club we support.
"I want to watch dour defensive football with a dash of kick and run."
What do you THINK we want?

Watching Nigel Reed interview Anselmi last night on the Soccer Show (Setanta), Tom said he'd had discussions with Klinnsman about the style of football the fans want in Toronto, and Anselmi went on to tell us he told him about the style of hockey we like here....yes cos this twat Anselmi knows fuck all about the sport he is overseeing in this town. So JK will make recommendations but it's still Tom's decison who we hire?
It'll be Gretzky won't it.

Don't get me wrong, hiring Klinnsman is an excellent step and a brave admission that TFC brass has no clue about football, but asking this question is either naive or plain dumb.

Fort York Redcoat
11-12-2010, 09:23 AM
Possession. It's what we've tried to play with the choice in DP. Now get some strength on the wings and a true finisher and we're good to go!

TOBOR !
11-12-2010, 09:26 AM
Help Klinsmann out


Sure, which way did he come in ?

Hitcho
11-12-2010, 09:43 AM
In this league, playing counter attack or gung ho attacking football is a bit risky.

Your squad is limited by the salary cap and roster limit, so unless you put everything into your back line, soaking up pressure and playing counter attack is a huge risk, and we've seen what happens to TFC when we try that - late goals and dropped points.

Same thing is true of out and out attacking football. The salary and roster caps mean you cannot build a team that is lethal going forward but has a sturdy enough defence to survive on its own with the midfield pushing up in support of the attackers all the time. You need a team like Newcastle under Keegan to carry that off, and we just won't be able to get the array of attacking talent in that's needed to win games 4-3 every week, plus if you do go that route then your defence will be terrible because there's no money left for it and you'll need to score 6 goals a week. Sooner or later it will blow up in your face.

Possession football in this league is the way to go though, at least in my opinion. A solid, steady team that knows how to work the ball, probe the weak spots of the other side and put them under pressure by making them constantly work for the ball and denying them the chance to build any fluidity. Simple, two touch football where you can work the ball into good areas and just keep probing away. Split your salary cap evenly over the team with decent players and only a couple of MLS stars (one of whom probably needs to be a lethal finisher and the other a play maker) and you should get some steady results and always be in with a shout of doing well in the post season.

Simple, 'innit? ;)

prizby
11-12-2010, 09:45 AM
Voted for possession focused. Nothing can screw up a team more, in my opinion, than when they are chasing the ball all night. TFC have been on the end of that a number of times and it is frustrating to watch never mind play as a player. As long as they take their opportunites to attack when needed too so that you are actually winning games as opposed to going for the 0-0 tie then I like this style the best.

while i agree with this in its entirity, for me, one of the most exciting, thrilling games all season was the 0-0 draw against Cruz Azul, and for me, that had a lot of entertainment value...I like that type of a style; but only if we are up against a much stronger team like a Cruz Azul...IT WOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE TO SEE IN AN MLS GAME!

Beach_Red
11-12-2010, 09:53 AM
Watching Nigel Reed interview Anselmi last night on the Soccer Show (Setanta), Tom said he'd had discussions with Klinnsman about the style of football the fans want in Toronto, and Anselmi went on to tell us he told him about the style of hockey we like here....yes cos this twat Anselmi knows fuck all about the sport he is overseeing in this town. So JK will make recommendations but it's still Tom's decison who we hire?
It'll be Gretzky won't it.

.

No, the Leafs had that chance but it isn't the style Toronto likes. Toronto prefer "grinders" don't you know, "hard-working, no-flash" guys like Darcy Tucker and Doug Gilmour.

That's why Dan Gargan has been promoted to fan favourite.

The worst thing about all this is that Anselmi may actually know the sports market of Toronto - and it's not what people here want it to be.

TFC Cityboy
11-12-2010, 09:59 AM
No, the Leafs had that chance but it isn't the style Toronto likes. Toronto prefer "grinders" don't you know, "hard-working, no-flash" guys like Darcy Tucker and Doug Gilmour.

That's why Dan Gargan has been promoted to fan favourite.

The worst thing about all this is that Anselmi may actually know the sports market of Toronto - and it's not what people here want it to be.
you're quite right..fact is I know fuck all about hockey ! :)
I agree re Dan Gargan, but I sure as hell don't want 10 more like him (as much as I love his grit).

Jeffro
11-12-2010, 09:59 AM
I'll have some possession oriented attacking football, please and thank you

DangerRed
11-12-2010, 10:15 AM
Honestly...the fact this this question is being asked of the fans tells you what a fuckin Mickey Mouse football club we support.
"I want to watch dour defensive football with a dash of kick and run."
What do you THINK we want?

Watching Nigel Reed interview Anselmi last night on the Soccer Show (Setanta), Tom said he'd had discussions with Klinnsman about the style of football the fans want in Toronto, and Anselmi went on to tell us he told him about the style of hockey we like here....yes cos this twat Anselmi knows fuck all about the sport he is overseeing in this town. So JK will make recommendations but it's still Tom's decison who we hire?
It'll be Gretzky won't it.

Don't get me wrong, hiring Klinnsman is an excellent step and a brave admission that TFC brass has no clue about football, but asking this question is either naive or plain dumb.

+1,000,000.

This is so fucking stupid, especially since they've had the entire 2010 season to listen to what we think about the kind of football we should be playing.

The defensive Preki-style football hasn't worked. The season before that, the I'm-scared-shitless long ball didn't work. Does that narrow it down?

God damn it.

Roogsy
11-12-2010, 10:18 AM
I agree. Why is this about what style Toronto FC wants to play? It SHOULD be about what style and team composition can be effective, competitive and winning in Major League Soccer based on the salary structure in place by the league. If that is the case, Klinsmann shouldn't be looking at TFC, he should be looking at the league.

Beach_Red
11-12-2010, 10:27 AM
I agree. Why is this about what style Toronto FC wants to play? It SHOULD be about what style and team composition can be effective, competitive and winning in Major League Soccer based on the salary structure in place by the league. If that is the case, Klinsmann shouldn't be looking at TFC, he should be looking at the league.

Don't worry, he said even though he's never been to a game, he said he's seen a few on TV. That's probably how RSL turned it around, too, they got themselves a good cable package ;).

Detroit_TFC
11-12-2010, 10:34 AM
I agree with possession-focused. When I think of the TFC games that have been the most satisfying to me, it was when we had the passing rhythm, good one-touch circulation of the ball. Yeah, joga bonito, but it was at those times I felt the team had confidence and control.

Cashcleaner
11-12-2010, 10:47 AM
I agree with possession-focused. When I think of the TFC games that have been the most satisfying to me, it was when we had the passing rhythm, good one-touch circulation of the ball. Yeah, joga bonito, but it was at those times I felt the team had confidence and control.

I'm torn in way. As much as I love seeing aggressive drives to the goal and shots on net, I also like good possession and to see us string together a good series of passes on either an offensive or defencive footing. It's hard for me to pick what I like more, to be honest.

Kooper
11-12-2010, 10:49 AM
+1,000,000.

This is so fucking stupid, especially since they've had the entire 2010 season to listen to what we think about the kind of football we should be playing.

The defensive Preki-style football hasn't worked. The season before that, the I'm-scared-shitless long ball didn't work. Does that narrow it down?

God damn it.

The Preki formula might have worked if Mista had been all he was cracked up to be. We had 41 goals against which is significantly better than last year thanks to JDG, Attakora and Cann. I do feel if we had 2 fit and proven strikers and a winger we could have put Dero as the attacking midfielder he is meant to be. That would have give TFC more posession and fewer chances on net for them. That would have translated into better goals against and more goals for.

Too bad the offensive threats of Mista up front, Ibrahim, Gala and Peterson on the wing, Barrett due to Injury, Hscanovics and Usamov as wing backs (advanced fullbacks) didn't work out. All we had was Dero and Labrocca to bring the ball forward.

I am happy to see Preki go but I think the failure of the Preki system still comes down to Johnston. Preki had to go for a clean sweep and to allow for yet another rebuilding season.

Section 117
11-12-2010, 10:58 AM
I am confused if TFC played a possession football, would not include attacking????

I watch a lot of soocer and have played my whole life and if TFC has possession attacking is a by product of that. With the right players a possession game you can pick a part a team and score.

Also, if playing counter attacking means aka Preki ball fuck that. But at the same time a team should be able to counter at any given time and push forward

Wull
11-12-2010, 11:03 AM
The Preki formula might have worked if Mista had been all he was cracked up to be. We had 41 goals against which is significantly better than last year thanks to JDG, Attakora and Cann. I do feel if we had 2 fit and proven strikers and a winger we could have put Dero as the attacking midfielder he is meant to be. That would have give TFC more posession and fewer chances on net for them. That would have translated into better goals against and more goals for.

Too bad the offensive threats of Mista up front, Ibrahim, Gala and Peterson on the wing, Barrett due to Injury, Hscanovics and Usamov as wing backs (advanced fullbacks) didn't work out. All we had was Dero and Labrocca to bring the ball forward.

I am happy to see Preki go but I think the failure of the Preki system still comes down to Johnston. Preki had to go for a clean sweep and to allow for yet another rebuilding season.


Why would you clean-sweep a team that was one point from the playoffs?!

jloome
11-12-2010, 11:48 AM
In this league, playing counter attack or gung ho attacking football is a bit risky.

Your squad is limited by the salary cap and roster limit, so unless you put everything into your back line, soaking up pressure and playing counter attack is a huge risk, and we've seen what happens to TFC when we try that - late goals and dropped points.

Same thing is true of out and out attacking football. The salary and roster caps mean you cannot build a team that is lethal going forward but has a sturdy enough defence to survive on its own with the midfield pushing up in support of the attackers all the time. You need a team like Newcastle under Keegan to carry that off, and we just won't be able to get the array of attacking talent in that's needed to win games 4-3 every week, plus if you do go that route then your defence will be terrible because there's no money left for it and you'll need to score 6 goals a week. Sooner or later it will blow up in your face.

Possession football in this league is the way to go though, at least in my opinion. A solid, steady team that knows how to work the ball, probe the weak spots of the other side and put them under pressure by making them constantly work for the ball and denying them the chance to build any fluidity. Simple, two touch football where you can work the ball into good areas and just keep probing away. Split your salary cap evenly over the team with decent players and only a couple of MLS stars (one of whom probably needs to be a lethal finisher and the other a play maker) and you should get some steady results and always be in with a shout of doing well in the post season.

Simple, 'innit? ;)

Got to totally disagree man.

MLS is based around athleticism. Every team plays full or half-field pressure, and time on the ball is extremely limited because players tend to charge into every tackle instead of marking players out of the play.

The general standard of technique is not good enough for players to maintain control of the ball under that pressure, and to evade that pressure, while still maintaining the shape needed for a controlled buildup.

I suspect Klinsmann's question is loaded to satisfy the public. The system will depend on the players available and the commonalities of their opposition.

On that basis, we should probably be looking for consistent MLS issues that a system can avoid, including a lack of width on the left side, a shortage of creative strikers, and ultra-tight marking.

Given that, I could see him picking a coach who favours non-tradititional formations, such as the narrow 4-2-2-2 or who favours wide play (due to the paucity of creative forwards) in a defensive 4-4-2.

A hole-player system like the 4-2-3-1 or the 4-4-1-1 relies on a creative forward doing all the scoring or being able to work with a target man who can also score, which is a tough combo to make click.

The 4-3-3- variants with two wide up top seem useless in this league, as the single striker invariably ends up working alone, with little mid support, due to everyone playing so tight positionally.

Darlofletch
11-12-2010, 11:51 AM
bah. had a long reply written out that disappeared on me.

anyway, what i was saying is that what a lot of people are saying sounds a lot like "prekiball" to me. solid defensively, and using possession to attack (remember all his early season press conferences lamenting the long ball, he didn't want to do that).

it would obviously be nice to have someone a little less abrasive personality wise, who gets along with everyone better, but really, i still feel preki was on the right track, he had the solid defence and was trying to improve the squad at the offensive side of things, bringing in mista and maicon was hardly the "plumbers and grinders" he was always accused of loving.

unfortunately rather than having the squad bolstered and imporved in july/august when we needed it, the depth got worse due to injuries, and we all saw what happened when relying on obie up front, and before we got a chance to see what would happen when preki had decent forwards as well as his solid defence, everyone freaked out at the first losing streak, and the fo used it as an oportunity to get rid of preki because they didn't like him, because he didn't fit in with how they work (you know, that proven successful mlse way).

anyway, I'd like to see possession based, and i'd like to be well balanced asap, but make sure we're solid defensively first.

whoever we get in though, and whatever style he plays, i hope he gets given more than half a season and one losing streak.

J .
11-12-2010, 12:59 PM
I voted counter attack. I think our team early to mid season was on was on the right track until MeRo quit, Barrett got hurt, Mista showed up and JDG never did. Our unbeaten streak and important CCL wins really highlight the team was on the right track.

If we had a pair of wide midfielders, the outcome of the season could have been very different.

With MLS built upon attacking , go go go, athletic style, a team with a sturdy back line and wingers to push the ball two and score on the counter could be highly effective. There is as lot of space in the MLS game to expose teams on the counter attack.

I really believe if we add two wingers and a DP to replace mista our team is not far off from being a very solid and young team.

Stencils
11-12-2010, 01:03 PM
Honestly...the fact this this question is being asked of the fans tells you what a fuckin Mickey Mouse football club we support.
"I want to watch dour defensive football with a dash of kick and run."
What do you THINK we want?

Watching Nigel Reed interview Anselmi last night on the Soccer Show (Setanta), Tom said he'd had discussions with Klinnsman about the style of football the fans want in Toronto, and Anselmi went on to tell us he told him about the style of hockey we like here....yes cos this twat Anselmi knows fuck all about the sport he is overseeing in this town. So JK will make recommendations but it's still Tom's decison who we hire?
It'll be Gretzky won't it.

Don't get me wrong, hiring Klinnsman is an excellent step and a brave admission that TFC brass has no clue about football, but asking this question is either naive or plain dumb.

Wow. Seriously? I can't even begin to describe how many ways this baffles and disappoints me. The only answer Anselmi had to give was 'WINNING' style.

19Barrett19
11-12-2010, 01:14 PM
bah. had a long reply written out that disappeared on me.

anyway, what i was saying is that what a lot of people are saying sounds a lot like "prekiball" to me. solid defensively, and using possession to attack (remember all his early season press conferences lamenting the long ball, he didn't want to do that).

it would obviously be nice to have someone a little less abrasive personality wise, who gets along with everyone better, but really, i still feel preki was on the right track, he had the solid defence and was trying to improve the squad at the offensive side of things, bringing in mista and maicon was hardly the "plumbers and grinders" he was always accused of loving.

unfortunately rather than having the squad bolstered and imporved in july/august when we needed it, the depth got worse due to injuries, and we all saw what happened when relying on obie up front, and before we got a chance to see what would happen when preki had decent forwards as well as his solid defence, everyone freaked out at the first losing streak, and the fo used it as an oportunity to get rid of preki because they didn't like him, because he didn't fit in with how they work (you know, that proven successful mlse way).

anyway, I'd like to see possession based, and i'd like to be well balanced asap, but make sure we're solid defensively first.

whoever we get in though, and whatever style he plays, i hope he gets given more than half a season and one losing streak.
I agree with preki not being given a fair chance. I'll put this as simply as I ca Mo your an idiot!
Let's give jdg a couple of wingers to help him distribute the ball to. That should allow dero to play ibis natural position and also to not over use him remember we have the gold cup next year too. Add 1 DP striker spend the $$$ ML$E and solidify the defense by adding some pieces Alston would be a great pick up. Adding wingers wold also let lidndsy develop better. Garcia better be gone next year . I just had to add that one on there just because cann played his but off we forgot how for two straight years he has cost us the playoffs (Garcia) I wold love to know the stats how many points he has cost us since coming over to tfc

TFC FAN FOREVER!

TOBOR !
11-12-2010, 01:15 PM
I am confused if TFC played a possession football, would not include attacking????

Naturally.

Possession football is usually a 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4,1,3,1 ... (I think you get it) where play is built up from the back or wherever possession is won, often with the ball played back to defenders whenever a route is blocked. part of the thinking here is that you won't concede goals if you've got the ball. Goals are scored by patiently trying to create an opportunity with the focus on keeping the ball.

Attacking football is pretty much the Total Football the dutch employed in the 1970's. Formations may include 3-4-3, 3-5-2, with an emphasis on pressing football high up the pitch (in the opponents third). When possession is lost the opponent is given little time to settle and faces increased numbers in their own end. The result is often a poor pass or a clearance turning possession over to you. This style requires a fit squad of players who work well within the system - not easy to find.

druid
11-12-2010, 01:29 PM
In theory, building the organization from the ground up around a style of play isn't a bad thing. It provides a clear direction for everyone from the top down. It should point the direction to almost every answer Anselmi is lacking. Though, in the MLS the style of defence might be more important than our ideal of attack.

The question is whether there are adequate coaching personnel in the MLS to follow this strategy, even over the short term?

TFC07
11-12-2010, 01:48 PM
ATTACKING FOOTBALL (aka Total Football) PLEASE! :flare:

TFC Cityboy
11-12-2010, 01:49 PM
Wow. Seriously? I can't even begin to describe how many ways this baffles and disappoints me. The only answer Anselmi had to give was 'WINNING' style.
YUP. I wish I was making it up.
The sooner that clown's out of the mix the better.

Luanda
11-12-2010, 02:57 PM
I voted attacking but well understand that it does not necessarily win you championships.

ochos
11-12-2010, 03:51 PM
Not to be difficult, but isn't this a tad overblown? Don't good teams do all three?

We're not Real Madrid here. The search for talent, or more precisely talent combined with character at a price we can afford, is our problem, and is far more important than this.

REALLY good teams do all three.. although I wouldn't have called Chelsea an all-out attacking team (at least not until they started scoring 18 goals a game...)

I think RSL is a fantastic example of the type of players we can bring in, and, when combined with some of the players we already have, keep possession and play attacking football. You really need a top striker to play counter-attack so we'll see if we get that. Chad has done fantastic this year to get behind defenders but I don't see him in this role for long if the level of defenders improves as it has in MLS year to year.

EDIT: and that's why I didn't vote :P

ochos
11-12-2010, 03:57 PM
Possession. It's what we've tried to play with the choice in DP. Now get some strength on the wings and a true finisher and we're good to go!

I sure as hell hope Julian learns how to hold on to balls in this league or we're as good as f**ked for next year...

TOBOR !
11-12-2010, 03:58 PM
good teams do all three

:picard:

alex andrew
11-12-2010, 06:23 PM
ajax amsterdam, ten defending, ten attacking, at that was 40 years ago.

TOBOR !
11-12-2010, 08:14 PM
ajax amsterdam, ten defending, ten attacking, at that was 40 years ago.

It's not quite as simple as that.

alex andrew
11-12-2010, 08:24 PM
ok, everybody back, everybody forward, all for one, one for all, of course you need a certain generation and a certain willingness, and of course it is difficult to achieve this spirit, but it is worth looking forward to.

having 9 to 5 footballers won't equal a good team.

redcard
11-12-2010, 08:33 PM
possession...we have the ball the other team can not score...but we can.

denime
11-12-2010, 09:16 PM
possession...we have the ball the other team can not score...but we can.


sound so simple,but it's true keep the ball away from other team as long as possible.

bgnewf
11-12-2010, 09:29 PM
http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/11/the-barcelona-way/

This style of play philosophy stuff is too high and mighty for us right now. We have simple needs and they start with a new coach and/or GM

alex andrew
11-12-2010, 09:36 PM
We have simple needs and they start with a new coach and/or GM

with all due respect bgnewf, we need footballers, coaches and gms are a dime a dozen.

bgnewf
11-12-2010, 09:50 PM
with all due respect bgnewf, we need footballers, coaches and gms are a dime a dozen.

But that is not Klinsmann's purview. His role is to help the club choose a GM and/or coach... Focus Groups and trying to get a feel for Toronto as a city is simply at this point a waste of time.

Oldtimer
11-12-2010, 09:56 PM
But that is not Klinsmann's purview. His role is to help the club choose a GM and/or coach... Focus Groups and trying to get a feel for Toronto as a city is simply at this point a waste of time.

I usually like your blogs, but couldn't disagree more this time. Having a consistent club philosophy is exactly what this club needs. Sure we're not Barca, but your team philosophy can include the fact that you have MLS journeymen.

Also, I don't know if you've worked with consultants before, but Klinsmann is not going to fly to Toronto to determine the city's philosophy. The survey work will be done by MLSE staffers, Klinsmann will spend half an hour reading the summary. He will fly to meet with MLSE officials like Tom Anselmi, give his conclusions, and present his list of candidates.

However, your list of what fans want (basically the opposite of Mo's tenure) is true and good.

bgnewf
11-12-2010, 09:58 PM
I usually like your blogs, but couldn't disagree more this time. Having a consistent club philosophy is exactly what this club needs.

I am just glad you read them!!

:):):):):)

ArmenJBX
11-12-2010, 10:08 PM
Good to see the club gaining some direction, or at least, seemingly so.

The team needs to know that they play a 4-3-3 or whatever formation we adopt, the players need to know what their exact job on the field is, as well as the job of the guys around him. This, I think, is lacking; players don't find each other on the field.

For the first time in a few years, I actually feel like we're at least going in the right direction. Toronto FC, in 2011, lead by Jacob Peterson, looks like a force to be reckoned with.

Blowing Bubbles
11-13-2010, 04:06 AM
this whole exercise is a shitshow in a league with a salary cap. Which team(s) in MLS started off by adopting a style of play and then finding a GM then a coach, then players .... and continually ran iterations on the players with the same GM+coach until they got it right?

If you look at the NBA - there's been only 1 team in the entire league that has run the same system for more than 5 years (or the lifespan of your average management team) ...... and that's because they've had the same coach for 22 years.

That's all well and good when you are the biggest league in the world and you only need to give raises to keep your staff, but if this team does well all of the ppl on the management side are going to move on to bigger and better things. You can't even replicate a Lyon in a cap league like MLS.

Kooper
11-13-2010, 08:10 AM
Why would you clean-sweep a team that was one point from the playoffs?!

We were 11 points from the playoffs this year which is about as bad as year two.

I think TFC needs to keep the spine (Frei, Attakora, Cann, JDG, Dero, Santos and Chad) but add some support for them at fullback, on the wings and up front. Santos and Chad are decent MLS quality players but one of them will need to be a backup for us to win anything. Same with Gargan and Labrocca. I would keep them as back ups. The only other player I would keep from the current squad is Conway a solid back up and good leader.

I hope Klinsmann recommends that we try to trade the rest with no salary cap hit. There is no sense paying 1/2 of Usanov's salary next year to get a fourth round draft pick. If we can't just cut them.

And since when is making the playoffs the ultimate goal. I want to win doubles each and every year forever.

Oldtimer
11-13-2010, 09:03 AM
That's all well and good when you are the biggest league in the world and you only need to give raises to keep your staff, but if this team does well all of the ppl on the management side are going to move on to bigger and better things.

Maybe, but that applies to every league, the cap has nothing to do with it in a league like MLS, because management salaries aren't capped.

For example, in the EPL there was been a lot of management turnover over the years. Look how many people have managed Chelsea! The Fergusons and Wengers are the exception.

By having a consistent club style, you only hire managers who match that style, so you avoid the situation like TFC had with Preki where almost the whole squad gets turned over when a coach with a different philosophy was brought in.

Mo had no idea about this sort of thing, so all 5 coaches ran things differently from each other.

Those who are saying "just get me a winning coach, that's all you need in MLS" fail to look at a club like DC United, which managed to be a powerhouse in a salary-capped league from 1996-2006, even though they had four different coaches during that period. The reason was there was a "DC United way" of doing things and a certain style of coaching and scouting.



4 MLS Cup wins
4 Supporters' Shield wins
1 CCL win (unfortunately before there was a World Club Cup)

If TFC had a record like that over 10 years, most of us would be very pleased! When DC appointed Tom Soehn head coach in 2007, even though he had been an assistant at the club for 4 years and is a good coach, he took things in a different direction, and the team has been rebuilding since, and now have had 3 coaches in 4 years (sounds familiar?).

So Klinsmann, in building a club philosophy is doing exactly the right thing to win in MLS.




And since when is making the playoffs the ultimate goal. I want to win doubles each and every year forever.

Exactly.

ag futbol
11-13-2010, 02:00 PM
I was hoping there'd be a thread on this, although the options are a little vague. There's plenty of grey areas in between them.

Personally if I was to describe what I wanted or saw in a Canadian brand of football, I'd say the following: clearly we opt again any overly pragmatic defensive mantra. The players didn't like it and neither did most fans.

It should be attack oriented and emphasize skill but be supported by an element of grit. I think of those teams that attack hard but press full board up top to win the ball back at all times. As much as I'm not a fan, I think of a team like Manu where they're talented but the players are expected to bust their ass for the team. You can not pull a berbatov and not try even if your talented.

ag futbol
11-13-2010, 02:13 PM
I usually like your blogs, but couldn't disagree more this time. Having a consistent club philosophy is exactly what this club needs. Sure we're not Barca, but your team philosophy can include the fact that you have MLS journeymen.
I agree completely, especially in an era where the style of Canadian football is an ever-moving sloppy target to pin down. No wonder we are forever arguing the best way to do things, nobody ever finds any aura to stick to.

Having a distinct style of play to be proud of is more than admirable.

ag futbol
11-13-2010, 02:19 PM
+1,000,000.

This is so fucking stupid, especially since they've had the entire 2010 season to listen to what we think about the kind of football we should be playing.

The defensive Preki-style football hasn't worked. The season before that, the I'm-scared-shitless long ball didn't work. Does that narrow it down?

God damn it.
Yes! How long have they been saying that stupid hockey line?

Maybe ass-hat should realize that watching a bunch of under talented grinders is not what we wanted. If it was we could have just kept preki.

The team should be hard working but it must play a skilled game. People were ready to gouge their eyes out with what they've seen in the past.

Heart of Stone
11-13-2010, 09:09 PM
Ask Klinsmann's opinion on DeRo's cheque signing goal-celebration... Das is no good...

Pookie
11-14-2010, 01:22 PM
Not to be difficult, but isn't this a tad overblown? Don't good teams do all three?

We're not Real Madrid here. The search for talent, or more precisely talent combined with character at a price we can afford, is our problem, and is far more important than this.

This is my view as well.

I'd add that a league with as much turnover as we see in MLS makes playing just one style a very difficult proposition.

Pookie
11-14-2010, 01:26 PM
4 MLS Cup wins
4 Supporters' Shield wins
1 CCL win (unfortunately before there was a World Club Cup)

If TFC had a record like that over 10 years, most of us would be very pleased!

This is Toronto. This city is only pleased if they won the Cup in the previous season.

Even then, you'd get some insightful talk radio caller who would complain about the way in which the won the title.

fetajr
11-15-2010, 01:25 PM
possession-attacking football!!!!!!!!!

it can be done, just ask marcelo bielsa

TFC07
11-15-2010, 03:47 PM
I was hoping there'd be a thread on this, although the options are a little vague. There's plenty of grey areas in between them.

Personally if I was to describe what I wanted or saw in a Canadian brand of football, I'd say the following: clearly we opt again any overly pragmatic defensive mantra. The players didn't like it and neither did most fans.

It should be attack oriented and emphasize skill but be supported by an element of grit. I think of those teams that attack hard but press full board up top to win the ball back at all times. As much as I'm not a fan, I think of a team like Manu where they're talented but the players are expected to bust their ass for the team. You can not pull a berbatov and not try even if your talented.

Agreed. I think that style is well suited for Canadian soccer.