MLS rejects Arnoux deal with Whitecaps

[werewolf]

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/rejects+Arnoux+deal+with+Caps/3781032/story.html




The league told the Whitecaps the 22-year-old former Wake Forest star must participate in the MLS SuperDraft or a weighted lottery before he can play for any MLS team.
Arnoux bypassed MLS in 2009 to sign with English Premier League side Everton and played one season with that club's reserve squad before signing with Vancouver this summer.
The Whitecaps signed Arnoux to a USSF D-2 contract and gave him a 2011 deal, which needed MLS approval. The team felt it could sign him to a 2011 contract because he was part of its 2010 roster but after more than two months of wrangling, the league disagreed.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

good, didnt see it happening but still woulda set pace for shady shit in the future.
that being said i hate all these drafts and shit but understand they are currently necessary.

[Oldtimer]

Since the 'Caps have the first pick, they can use it on him.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i think they were hoping to get first pick AND him

[bgnewf]

There is a fine line between paying within the rules and playing fair. Kudos for Vancouver for getting creative but they do have to play fair.

[Suds]

can't blame Vancouver for trying .. worst that could happen is what has resulted

by signing him ahead of time they took a chance they could argue his contract is valid .. smart business in my mind

[nfitz]

Perhaps they can sell him back to Europe, and take all the cash instead of having to split it with MLS then.

[Yohan]

stupid superdraft rules

[razor787]

I dont really know the details about this, but If the player was purchased from another team, then he belongs to the caps now. I dont see how MLS can say that he must go through the superdraft. He already has a contract with that team.

[prizby]

I wonder if the MLS will offer allocation or something...no one drafted his rights when he decided to play in Europe...they missed that opportunity...he should be fair game

[razor787]

I wonder if the MLS will offer allocation or something...no one drafted his rights when he decided to play in Europe...they missed that opportunity...he should be fair game

I hope so. Completely unfair that they are losing out on him. They deserve some sort of compensation.

[troy1982]

I dont really know the details about this, but If the player was purchased from another team, then he belongs to the caps now. I dont see how MLS can say that he must go through the superdraft. He already has a contract with that team.

He has a contract and is owned by a team which will both end in 2 months.
If he wants to play in MLS next year he will have to sign a new contract with the league and be drafted by a team.

[prizby]

He has a contract and is owned by a team which will both end in 2 months.
If he wants to play in MLS next year he will have to sign a new contract with the league and be drafted by a team.

how come Eddie Johnson (Englishman) doesn't have to be drafted and Portland can sign him?

how come Sebastian Le Toux didn't have to be drafted into the league?

[J .]

Im happy Van didnt get someone who could turn out to be good.

He as to be draft I believe because he didnt spend enough time overseas and is an NCAA product, I may be wrong though.

[scooter]

There is a fine line between paying within the rules and playing fair. Kudos for Vancouver for getting creative but they do have to play fair.

not sure i completly agree

seems like some basketball techniques creeping into mls

[rocker]

how come Eddie Johnson (Englishman) doesn't have to be drafted and Portland can sign him?

how come Sebastian Le Toux didn't have to be drafted into the league?

neither went to US colleges.

the Cody Arnoux thing is simply to protect the college draft.

Otherwise players could circumvent the draft, making MLS's big draft pointless. It would also make it hard for MLS to get players to sign GA contracts, if they could just say "no" and go to the expansion team for more $$.

[prizby]

neither went to US colleges.

the Cody Arnoux thing is simply to protect the college draft.

Otherwise players could circumvent the draft, making MLS's big draft pointless. It would also make it hard for MLS to get players to sign GA contracts, if they could just say "no" and go to the expansion team for more $$.

ok so then explain why Heath Pearce didn't have to enter the draft?
or how about why jay demeritt won't have to enter the draft.

Both went to college in the States than went to Europe and now are/will be in the MLS

what about Robbie Rogers

[J .]

^ How long were they overseas for?

[prizby]

anywhere from 1-8 years

shouldn't matter...you shouldn't have a rule that can be used against one person and not against another

[shutupkid]

Since Vancouver violated a rule trying to sign him does that mean they will be punished in any way?

[Yohan]

Since Vancouver violated a rule trying to sign him does that mean they will be punished in any way?
technically, they are still USL...

[rocker]

ok so then explain why Heath Pearce didn't have to enter the draft?
or how about why jay demeritt won't have to enter the draft.

Both went to college in the States than went to Europe and now are/will be in the MLS

what about Robbie Rogers

Robbie Rogers was in a lottery -- columbus won the lottery.

I'm certain Jay Demerit would have to enter the allocation system to return to MLS.
Brian McBride had to enter the allocation system for returning US nationals. That's how TFC got Barrett.

Heath Pearce went to Dallas because Dallas had the #1 position in the allocation system.

MLS has a lot of different rules. It's all designed to have power over young players. If you don't sign with MLS right away as a youngster, there's no way you're getting back to MLS on your own terms.

[Beach_Red]

Since Vancouver violated a rule trying to sign him does that mean they will be punished in any way?

Could be worth it. Seattle paid the tampering fine for hiring Schmidt.

(and, of course, in the NHL New Jersey paid for tampering with Scott Stevens and then built a team around him)

What's that saying, rules are made to be broken?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Arnoux never went overseas (or signed over seas rather)

[ExiledRed]

Arnoux never went overseas (or signed over seas rather)

He signed a one year contract with Everton, unless Everton doesn't count. (And I wouldnt be surprised if it didnt...hahaha)

[rocker]

Vancouver is being treated as any MLS team would be treated.... Actually it's Vancouver that's trying to get something that other MLS teams would never get: the ability to sign a college American as a free agent, without a draft.

MLS's decision makes sense, even if the rules are so convoluted and restrictive.

Anyways, Vancouver can still get him in the draft if they like... don't they have the first pick?

[Red CB Toronto]

The whole allocation system is a bunch of crap, how can a player say like Brian McBride who was out of contract be told where he can play, I am surprised no one has challenged the MLS's restrictive system when it comes to player movement with FIFA.

[ExiledRed]

Single entity nonsense, I agree.
The reason Vancouver tried to circumnavigate the rules is simple. The rules are fucking moronic and damaging to the growth of this league, and MLS seems to be able to fudge these rules at will anyway.
Brian McBride would be playing for us if these rules were applied fully, and we wouldnt have been lumped paying 200k for a minimum four years to a mediocre forward.

[Azerban]

what would fifa do

mls has them by the balls

[prizby]

Robbie Rogers was in a lottery -- columbus won the lottery.

I'm certain Jay Demerit would have to enter the allocation system to return to MLS.
Brian McBride had to enter the allocation system for returning US nationals. That's how TFC got Barrett.

Heath Pearce went to Dallas because Dallas had the #1 position in the allocation system.

MLS has a lot of different rules. It's all designed to have power over young players. If you don't sign with MLS right away as a youngster, there's no way you're getting back to MLS on your own terms.

brian mcbride was taken first overall in the 1996 entry draft, he had already been a drafted player

Heath Pearce and Jay Demerrit had never entered the entry draft, so the question is to the person before, why did he not have to enter the draft after returning from Europe and this Arnoux guy does...

[ExiledRed]

brian mcbride was taken first overall in the 1996 entry draft, he had already been a drafted player

Heath Pearce and Jay Demerrit had never entered the entry draft, so the question is to the person before, why did he not have to enter the draft after returning from Europe and this Arnoux guy does...

DeMerit went through the NCAA system, he just wasnt drafted. Not one stupid bastard MLS team at the time wanted him.

.

[Yohan]

I believe the rule says all USMNT members have to go through allocation draft.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

He signed a one year contract with Everton, unless Everton doesn't count. (And I wouldnt be surprised if it didnt...hahaha)

my bad, for some reason thought he had gone overseas but never secured a contract. In that case it is a bit dicey that MLS has decided not to allow the caps to sign him. Dont care really tho cuz its their problem.

[ExiledRed]

I believe the rule says all USMNT members have to go through allocation draft.

Doesnt matter, Demerit went through the draft, but didnt get drafted.

MLS turned him down basically, so he went to britain and did what few people could dream of doing, starting out at the very bottom and then signing for a championship side and scoring the goal that put them in the premier league.

MLS cant turn around now and say "Oh so you were good? You have to go through the draft again then, because we didnt realise the first time around."

[rocker]

brian mcbride was taken first overall in the 1996 entry draft, he had already been a drafted player

Heath Pearce and Jay Demerrit had never entered the entry draft, so the question is to the person before, why did he not have to enter the draft after returning from Europe and this Arnoux guy does...

But it's irrelevant to the point. If you actually asked an MLS official about the distinction between the Arnoux case and the Pearce case, I'm sure they could give you a reason. MLS has a shitload of different rules for different classes of players. MLS may say it's an age thing (under 23, college player must go through the draft). I have no idea.

But those rules are consistent on one point: players cannot return to MLS on their own free will.

The fact is, as with McBride, Pearce, Rogers etc, he cannot return as a free agent, picking his team. As with McBride, Pearce, Rogers, he must return through one of the systems MLS has: entry draft, lottery, or allocation order. In reality, there are ways around this (see McBride and TFC)

Remember, all players come to MLS under some rule... discovery claims, for example, cover internationals and other free agents.

[ExiledRed]

how do you know he wasn't wanted?

what often happens is that players who have clear intentions of going overseas are not drafted -- it's a waste of a pick.

Because I researched it? I read a four page article about Jay Demerit's progress in sports illustrated (it was a free mag at the doctors office) about three years ago and I've kept an interest in him since, because his story is quite extraordinary and a testament to hard work and determination.

A friend suggested he went to Europe AFTER he didnt get drafted. He ended up playing for 40 quid a week in the ninth division.

The point is moot anyway, he wasnt drafted, and therefore he has already gone through the draft and needn't do it again.

[rocker]

Remember as well that all these draft/allocation rules exist for one reason: MLS is single entity.

MLS signs the contracts. To achieve some level of fairness, drafts and allocations exist.
Otherwise the power to decide who gets what players would fall in Garber's hands completely.
Since individual teams can't compete for players (MLS can't negotiate against itself), these weird and wacky systems exist to make it relatively fair.

Secondly, they reduce competition for players vs other leagues, which keeps salaries down.

That Vancouver can't sign Cody Arnoux as they wish, means Garber doesn't have the power to give Vancouver a gift.

[Beach_Red]

^ Yeah, that's right. If they could have found enough billionaires to buy teams individually it never would have come to single-entity, but this was best they could do.

It'll change if the league gets successful enough and the owners want to go it on their own, but it has a long way to go.

[rocker]

^ Yeah, that's right. If they could have found enough billionaires to buy teams individually it never would have come to single-entity, but this was best they could do.

It'll change if the league gets successful enough and the owners want to go it on their own, but it has a long way to go.

Yes, maybe someday each team will sign contracts individually and that will be that. Of course, drafts still exist in the other leagues that have individual owners, but for a cultural reason rather than a single-entity reason.

It makes a lot of sense for a growing league tho, to stay single entity. This is why I'm not too hard on MLS for the rules.

The rules have kept salary inflation down greatly.

I know other leagues have caps, but they have to pay greater percentages of total revenue to players because the teams are not single entity -- the law gives players so much more power in negotiations because otherwise the teams could face cartel charges. As single entity, MLS is not a cartel.

For a growing league that didn't want an NASL thing of spiraling costs, it's pure genius.

Now, for us trying to figure out what rules Cody Arnoux falls under, it's a pain in the ass! LOL.
I'm sure even the agents of these players are like "what the fuck?"

In the end, though, things tend to work out. McBride wanted to go to Chicago, and he got to go to Chicago. If Vancouver wants Arnoux and Arnoux wants to go to Vancouver, this can happen.

[jloome]

DeMerit went through the NCAA system, he just wasnt drafted. Not one stupid bastard MLS team at the time wanted him.

.

Almost no one in England, either. He had to play non-league football first and get picked up, at Southall and Northwood.

He's not consistent. At MLS level he'd be a consistently excellent centre half but I've never seen anything from him that would make me rate him above Cann or Jakovic.

[ExiledRed]

Almost no one in England, either. He had to play non-league football first and get picked up, at Southall and Northwood.

He's not consistent. At MLS level he'd be a consistently excellent centre half but I've never seen anything from him that would make me rate him above Cann or Jakovic.

Sure, but as far as Im concerned he's still 'one that got away'

Anybody else just showing up on the doorstep in Europe, is going to have to prove themselves at the lowest levels also. Captaining and promoting Watford, and getting a few thousand english fans chanting "U-S-A! U-S-
A!" is quite the feat for a player that wasnt deemed good enough for MLS.

Regardless, how good he actually is, doesnt change the fact that MLS waived their control over his destiny and can't force him back into the draft now that he would be a top pick.