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View Full Version : The Players who are at BMO right now are the players who'll be back?



Nuvinho
10-26-2010, 12:41 PM
It looks like the players who are meeting the management and the media are the ones that they intend to keep around:

Henry
Lindsay
Macion
Barrett
Cann
Gargan
Nana
JDG
DeRo
Frei

Don't the rest of the players get assessed, or they basically said go home for now.

Azerban
10-26-2010, 12:43 PM
It looks like the players who are meeting the management and the media are the ones that they intend to keep around:

Henry
Lindsay
Macion
Barrett
Cann
Gargan
Nana
JDG
DeRo

Don't the rest of the players get assessed, or they basically said go home for now.

there's no keepers in there but i'm p. much fine with this

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 12:44 PM
I doubt that's the list. Not without Frei in it.

Carts
10-26-2010, 12:44 PM
It looks like the players who are meeting the management and the media are the ones that they intend to keep around:

Henry
Lindsay
Macion
Barrett
Cann
Gargan
Nana
JDG
DeRo

Don't the rest of the players get assessed, or they basically said go home for now.

God I hope that's not the list...

We need to start with more than that to build a roster...

Carts...

brad
10-26-2010, 12:45 PM
Being that Frei is not on your list, I would question that logic.

More than likely, now that the season is over, players have gone home.

Azerban
10-26-2010, 12:46 PM
We need to start with more than that to build a roster...



who else would you keep, assuming all three keepers are staying? everyone else is replaceable

Nuvinho
10-26-2010, 12:48 PM
Frei is there guys. So add him to the list.

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 12:49 PM
who else would you keep, assuming all three keepers are staying? everyone else is replaceable

Mista. He should get a contract extension and a raise. :)

Really though, I agree. That's it right there. That would be my list.

Parkdale
10-26-2010, 12:51 PM
no Labrocca? No Peterson? No Sanyang? No Ibby?

they aren't stars, but we've kept much worse.

mastermixer
10-26-2010, 12:51 PM
This might be the list until some Euro-Trash manager with flashy Armani suit comes and puts his stamp on this team. (just a guess lol)

Carts
10-26-2010, 12:52 PM
who else would you keep, assuming all three keepers are staying? everyone else is replaceable

Assuming all three keepers are saying solves a huge part of that... DUH! ;)

But in replying it was to his list...

I don't disagree that players are "replaceable"... But you can't count your chickens before they hatch either...

If too many are released, and player movement doesn't go your way, you can f*ck yourself very, VERY quickly...

Its a North American league. Trades happen here. A guy of minimal value to us, can be of some use to others. Cap space, utility. You take your time with the roster...

Plus, there's someone on that list that I would cut/trade (if someone would take him)/send him on his way to not only free up cap space, a DP slot, but also just get right off the pitch...

Carts...

razor787
10-26-2010, 12:52 PM
I think those are a good base of guys, but other players we have, are vital players to have on the bench. LaBrocca, Kocic, Conway, And there are a couple young guys I think we need to keep as developmental players, or subs. Those are, for the most part, good starting players, that I believe we will have next season.

werewolf
10-26-2010, 12:53 PM
Im ok with the list. LaBrocca is decent enough for his experiance and salary. But I wouldn't be sad about losing the rest.

Carts
10-26-2010, 12:56 PM
I think people under-value Jon Conway...

$60,000... Decent MLS Keeper...

BUT more important - GREAT BACKUP...

They're always talking about what a team guy, veteran presence, and teammate in the room he is...

He's undefeated against Cruz Azul, and has performed damn good in his limited time...

Not always easy to find someone willing to take that role...

Carts...

razor787
10-26-2010, 12:59 PM
Agreed. And if what the announcers say is true, he loves helping Kocic, and is mentoring him, and helping him improve. Again, you won't find many backup keepers taking to their role like that. He is a vital piece of our team. Who knows what can happen to Frei at any time.

Globetrotter
10-26-2010, 01:03 PM
Peterson - goodbye
Labrocca - bench player
Sangyang - surprised that we wouldn't keep him
Ibby - buh bye

Shway
10-26-2010, 01:04 PM
no Labrocca? No Peterson? No Sanyang? No Ibby?

they aren't stars, but we've kept much worse.


Labrocca, Peterson, are over paid...so i would say no!

But sanyang, gomes and ibby you can keep, especially with the reserve league returning

jabbronies
10-26-2010, 01:04 PM
no Labrocca? No Peterson? No Sanyang? No Ibby?

they aren't stars, but we've kept much worse.

and that's why we've never made the playoffs.

I remember at the town hall Earl was telling me they intended on protecting 10 players and 2 others they want to keep - players that they really thought they could build on. Add Labrocca and Sangyang and there are your 12.

No Ibby for sure and no Peterson at the price he is at.

Parkdale
10-26-2010, 01:11 PM
I remember at the town hall Earl was telling me they intended on protecting 10 players and 2 others they want to keep - players that they really thought they could build on. Add Labrocca and Sangyang and there are your 12.

still, there needs to be some real signings in the off season if they want to be competitive.

prizby
10-26-2010, 01:13 PM
for a base salary of $126,000 for Peterson...I have seen TFC do a ton worse

Wull
10-26-2010, 01:16 PM
get rid of de guzman and then we have a decent base

ExiledRed
10-26-2010, 01:16 PM
for a base salary of $126,000 for Peterson...I have seen TFC do a ton worse

Yep, like twice that for Barrett, and a four year clause that prevents us from offloading him.

mastermixer
10-26-2010, 01:41 PM
Maybe I drank to many beers at the games, but Peterson aint worth the froth I throw away with the cup. He is a USL player at best.

ag futbol
10-26-2010, 02:01 PM
You can sign any number of guys for minimal money, but not very many of the guys we have on minimal money are talented.

Compare that to RSL, I think they have about 8 or ten guys who earn less than Peterson but are far more talented. That's how you build a winner, not just justifying someone's spot on the roster because they are cheap.

When TFC starts picking up impact players at these lower salaries, that's when we'll be turning the corner.

ag futbol
10-26-2010, 02:03 PM
Mista. He should get a contract extension and a raise. :)

Really though, I agree. That's it right there. That would be my list.
Agreed, the new GM needs some space to work with. Have some confidence in the fact he can identify some talent.

I'd probably keep Labrocca but otherwise I can't argue with their choices.

Velvet Elvis
10-26-2010, 02:14 PM
Personally, I'd add Sangyang to the list of players to keep.

Nodoubtguy
10-26-2010, 02:18 PM
I'd love to see Nick Labrocca stay....only addition I'd make

Hitcho
10-26-2010, 02:50 PM
no Labrocca? No Peterson? No Sanyang? No Ibby?

they aren't stars, but we've kept much worse.

And look where it's got us Parky!

I think TFC needs to seriously raise the bar in terms of the level of player we try and obtain and keep. I understand the salary cap makes that hard, but other teams have better squad quality, depth and balance than us at overall lower salaries. This goes back to the level of GM and head coach we have, and is another reason why it's essential to get the right guys in place this time around. Otherwise, expect a few more years of blowing the squad up and starting again every off season...

EDIT - having said that, I like Labrocca, I think Sanyang has raw potential and Ibby will be retained as long as he maintains GA status, but should be ditched immediately thereafter unless he improves 100 times above the level he is at now. Peterson I'd trade for the first decent offer.

Derko
10-26-2010, 02:54 PM
This might be the list until some Euro-Trash manager with flashy Armani suit comes and puts his stamp on this team. (just a guess lol)

I like the above list, but would add LaBrocca and Peterson, not too sure about Ibby, if he stays for cheap O.K.

You mean like our past coach with all of his passion, Preki, yes he made a few good tactical moves, but I think the world started to crumble around him, by fielding a less than desirable starting XI, a win there we would have advanced.

Luanda
10-26-2010, 02:58 PM
what about that other kid, Sanyang's countryman, who was injured pretty much the whole season?

torontocelt
10-26-2010, 03:03 PM
And look where it's got us Parky!

I think TFC needs to seriously raise the bar in terms of the level of player we try and obtain and keep. I understand the salary cap makes that hard, but other teams have better squad quality, depth and balance than us at overall lower salaries. This goes back to the level of GM and head coach we have, and is another reason why it's essential to get the right guys in place this time around. Otherwise, expect a few more years of blowing the squad up and starting again every off season...

EDIT - having said that, I like Labrocca, I think Sanyang has raw potential and Ibby will be retained as long as he maintains GA status, but should be ditched immediately thereafter unless he improves 100 times above the level he is at now. Peterson I'd trade for the first decent offer.

Agree with pretty much all of that.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 03:06 PM
There's no reason to get rid of Nick LaBrocca and Jacob Peterson. Whoever we sign in the league at their salaries will probably perform the same. If they're not starting lineup, fine, but they are definitely good players to have on your team.

Joseph Nane and Fuad Ibrahim leaving is a great great thing, however.

TFC USA
10-26-2010, 03:21 PM
I agree with keeping LaBrocca but fuck it Peterson sucks. It should not take this long to perform well at the fundamentals of soccer.

Ibbe has to go. He's useless.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 03:28 PM
Chad said, in his interview, that he wants to keep as many people at this club as possible.

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 03:29 PM
Yeah that's a great idea Chad. Let's keep the same guys that couldn't get this team into the playoffs when you and Maicon got hurt.

Peterson is one of the worst wingers I have ever seen playing professional sports.

torontocelt
10-26-2010, 03:35 PM
I agree with keeping LaBrocca but fuck it Peterson sucks. It should not take this long to perform well at the fundamentals of soccer.

Ibbe has to go. He's useless.

How much is LaBrocca on, does anyone know? If it wasn't too much I would keep him but if it was a fair whack then I would get rid of him. I find his form unpredicatable, sometimes he looks pretty good and other times his passing is abysmal. We do have worse than LaBrocca though, that much is for sure.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 03:38 PM
He's not too high, I believe he's 120-140K?

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 03:38 PM
Nevermind, LaBrocca is a 77K, a very reasonable pay level for his talent, which means we would be smart to KEEP him.

torontocelt
10-26-2010, 03:40 PM
Nevermind, LaBrocca is a 77K, a very reasonable pay level for his talent, which means we would be smart to KEEP him.

I would definitely keep him as a squad player then.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 03:43 PM
There's no reason not to. He's a good player, who knows his role, does it well, and isn't overpaid.

It would be a dumb move to get rid of him, unless he was a "cancer" in the locker room, which, judging by some interviews and the way he is talked about, doesn't seem to be the case.

Shway
10-26-2010, 03:47 PM
hes a good player to come off the bench

moralis
10-26-2010, 03:48 PM
Hi Guys,

Watch the Dero, DeGuzman and Frei press conference. In 20 minutes Frei was not asked one question. For me he has been our best players. Stupid TO Media.

Are you guys surprised?

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 03:50 PM
I'm watching it as we speak, it's funny how they don't even notice him being there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Frei left next year.

moralis
10-26-2010, 03:53 PM
Also, are you able to hear the Tom Anselmi and Doneil Henry/Nicolas Lindsey press conferences. I can't hear them on my computer.

Are you guys are to hear both press conferences.

Thanks

Hitcho
10-26-2010, 03:59 PM
There's no reason to get rid of Nick LaBrocca and Jacob Peterson. Whoever we sign in the league at their salaries will probably perform the same. If they're not starting lineup, fine, but they are definitely good players to have on your team.

Joseph Nane and Fuad Ibrahim leaving is a great great thing, however.

I don't think you have much support for your "Peterson is our best player after DeRo position Jimmy, but keep banging the drum dude! :D


I'm watching it as we speak, it's funny how they don't even notice him being there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Frei left next year.

He's on record as saying he wants to stay for a bit longer yet - I think he knows (because everyone else does) that it might be a mistake to head off to a "better" league too early and become a bench warmer rather than stay and develop as a player for a bit longer which would give him a much better shot of being a success in a "bigger" league further down the road.

moralis
10-26-2010, 04:03 PM
Training Facility question: Paul's answer

On the training ground...we're working with 5 parties to come up with the right partnership. we don't have any land - so that's why we need a partner.

Its at a confidential stage in the process now, and we don't expect to be able to announce a deal until February. But its heating up. I went to England and Amsterdam earlier this month to look at some of the best facilities out there. Its an exciting project! We're planning for a new training ground but that won't open for 12-24 months.

moralis
10-26-2010, 04:04 PM
Travelling support question: Paul's answer

We could probably work with Expedia to come up with a special package for supporters. We can't get into the travel business for legal reasons thought.

Full TFC chat with Paul Beirne: http://www.torontofc.ca/node/5257

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 04:05 PM
Fine, you wanna know the truth?

I am Jacob Peterson.

Hitcho
10-26-2010, 04:09 PM
Fine, you wanna know the truth?

I am Jacob Peterson.

Say it 'aint so, Jimmy!!! :smilielol5:

prizby
10-26-2010, 05:26 PM
Yeah that's a great idea Chad. Let's keep the same guys that couldn't get this team into the playoffs when you and Maicon got hurt.

Peterson is one of the worst wingers I have ever seen playing professional sports.

you must have not watched tfc the last 2 months than

your arguement is like saying Wayne Rooney is one of the worst strikers I have ever seen

Alixir
10-26-2010, 05:28 PM
what about that other kid, Sanyang's countryman, who was injured pretty much the whole season?you mean Sanyang?

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 05:30 PM
He means Emmanuel Gomez

If you think Peterson is the worst winger, you're probably the same kind of person who sees potential in Joseph Nane.

David_Oliveira
10-26-2010, 05:32 PM
you mean Sanyang?

No he means Gomez or Gomes can't remember how to spell his name

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 05:39 PM
you must have not watched tfc the last 2 months than

your arguement is like saying Wayne Rooney is one of the worst strikers I have ever seen

What in the world does Wayne Rooney and Jacob Peterson have in common. Please, enlighten me.

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 05:47 PM
He means Emmanuel Gomez

If you think Peterson is the worst winger, you're probably the same kind of person who sees potential in Joseph Nane.

Another completely unrelated analogy. How in the world do you tie Peterson haters to Nane lovers? Please enlighten me.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 05:59 PM
Whatever.
I'm done talking.

You're right, I'm wrong. I'll just read the boards from now on.

TFCRegina
10-26-2010, 06:21 PM
It looks like the players who are meeting the management and the media are the ones that they intend to keep around:

Henry
Lindsay
Macion
Barrett
Cann
Gargan
Nana
JDG
DeRo
Frei

Don't the rest of the players get assessed, or they basically said go home for now.

I'd add Barrett to that list and maybe Harden.

Section 117
10-26-2010, 06:31 PM
Jimmy. What is with your hard on for Peterson?? He has has at best two maybe three decent appearances this past year. He is like most of the crap that Preki brought in he is absolutely useless. In the mls you can't waste cap space on dead wood if you do you have a roster kind of like what we had this year. Also if Peterson stays he should make no more than Gargan.

Heart of Stone
10-26-2010, 06:40 PM
Garcia still walking around town... looks pretty comfortable... although he was leaving a bank when seen...

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 06:44 PM
Because he's exactly the type of player everyone here loves to shit on and then when he's basically forced out due to fan discontent, he will shine in another club.

Like fuck, I don't have a hard on for Peterson, but for some reason no one here can see his skillset because they've been convinced he's shit. I remember the way people talked about Buddle, and how useless he seemed. When Jacob Peterson becomes a good player for Chicago or whoever he ends up being shipped out to, you're all going to look back, laugh and say "Oh well, just another player who left Toronto and became good."

No one stops for a second and thinks that maybe it's because they're actually being given a chance by the fans. Open your eyes, and watch his last few games, where he's been allowed to play. 2 goals, 3 assists. That's a lot better than over 80% of the squad, but I'm sure it doesn't matter, because, at the beginning of the season, he was shit, therefore he'll always be shit, until he leaves.

The revolving door killed this team, and it seems that the average Toronto FC fan/supporter has a hard on for that very door. If you throw players like Peterson and LaBrocca out, you have NOTHING, because without them, all you have are a handful of superstar players, and no supporting cast.

It's for this reason I defend him. I see something in him, an obvious talent and skill, waiting to explode. If it happens when he's been traded away, we're fucking idiots because we gave him up. I want to see it happen WITH US, because I know it's there, I see it every single game. The problems he has aren't problems with his skill, it's adaptation problems, which are easily cured with regular playing time. Peterson represents the Wondolowski's and Barrett's of this league, the players who take time to develop, but once they do, they're valuable assets to their clubs. Not everyone can be De Rosario, who makes their impact every single game, or Lindsay, who show off their potential incredibly quickly and young. For some players, it takes time, but here, if you don't deliver on day 1, you're basically useless and "the worst winger I've ever seen in professional sports."

Chevy
10-26-2010, 06:46 PM
Whatever.
I'm done talking.

You're right, I'm wrong. I'll just read the boards from now on.

I'm with you on this one Jimmy. Peterson isn't going to be an all-star, but I do see a role for him on this club. Maybe even starting (gasp).

We will likely crash and burn together, but what the hell. :flare:

ExiledRed
10-26-2010, 06:59 PM
Because he's exactly the type of player everyone here loves to shit on and then when he's basically forced out due to fan discontent, he will shine in another club.

Like fuck, I don't have a hard on for Peterson, but for some reason no one here can see his skillset because they've been convinced he's shit. I remember the way people talked about Buddle, and how useless he seemed. When Jacob Peterson becomes a good player for Chicago or whoever he ends up being shipped out to, you're all going to look back, laugh and say "Oh well, just another player who left Toronto and became good."

No one stops for a second and thinks that maybe it's because they're actually being given a chance by the fans. Open your eyes, and watch his last few games, where he's been allowed to play. 2 goals, 3 assists. That's a lot better than over 80% of the squad, but I'm sure it doesn't matter, because, at the beginning of the season, he was shit, therefore he'll always be shit, until he leaves.

The revolving door killed this team, and it seems that the average Toronto FC fan/supporter has a hard on for that very door. If you throw players like Peterson and LaBrocca out, you have NOTHING, because without them, all you have are a handful of superstar players, and no supporting cast.

It's for this reason I defend him. I see something in him, an obvious talent and skill, waiting to explode. If it happens when he's been traded away, we're fucking idiots because we gave him up. I want to see it happen WITH US, because I know it's there, I see it every single game. The problems he has aren't problems with his skill, it's adaptation problems, which are easily cured with regular playing time. Peterson represents the Wondolowski's and Barrett's of this league, the players who take time to develop, but once they do, they're valuable assets to their clubs. Not everyone can be De Rosario, who makes their impact every single game, or Lindsay, who show off their potential incredibly quickly and young. For some players, it takes time, but here, if you don't deliver on day 1, you're basically useless and "the worst winger I've ever seen in professional sports."


Whether or not Peterson is good enough for this squad, moving forward, this is a well articulated and poignant post, and it more than answers the question as to why Jimmy is defending Peterson.

excellent read, and good food for thought.

TFC OZZ
10-26-2010, 07:26 PM
I have to agree about Peterson. I'm not quite sure why he's getting all this negative feedback about "not having the fundamentals down" or being "the worst winger I've ever seen". Let's stop and think here, we all know that Andy Welsh is/was the worst winger we've ever seen.

I thought Peterson was a more than competent hard-working guy off the bench. No world beater by any means, but a decent player by MLS standards; and depth is such an important thing in this league. Once we get rid of him, I have to agree that he'll likely just go on and play well at another club, while we move on to the next 100-120K MLS backup midfielder who plays exactly the same...

As for Frei, I really can't see him going anywhere in the near future. He's still got 2 years here I would think.

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 07:49 PM
Because he's exactly the type of player everyone here loves to shit on and then when he's basically forced out due to fan discontent, he will shine in another club.

Like fuck, I don't have a hard on for Peterson, but for some reason no one here can see his skillset because they've been convinced he's shit. I remember the way people talked about Buddle, and how useless he seemed. When Jacob Peterson becomes a good player for Chicago or whoever he ends up being shipped out to, you're all going to look back, laugh and say "Oh well, just another player who left Toronto and became good."

No one stops for a second and thinks that maybe it's because they're actually being given a chance by the fans. Open your eyes, and watch his last few games, where he's been allowed to play. 2 goals, 3 assists. That's a lot better than over 80% of the squad, but I'm sure it doesn't matter, because, at the beginning of the season, he was shit, therefore he'll always be shit, until he leaves.

The revolving door killed this team, and it seems that the average Toronto FC fan/supporter has a hard on for that very door. If you throw players like Peterson and LaBrocca out, you have NOTHING, because without them, all you have are a handful of superstar players, and no supporting cast.

It's for this reason I defend him. I see something in him, an obvious talent and skill, waiting to explode. If it happens when he's been traded away, we're fucking idiots because we gave him up. I want to see it happen WITH US, because I know it's there, I see it every single game. The problems he has aren't problems with his skill, it's adaptation problems, which are easily cured with regular playing time. Peterson represents the Wondolowski's and Barrett's of this league, the players who take time to develop, but once they do, they're valuable assets to their clubs. Not everyone can be De Rosario, who makes their impact every single game, or Lindsay, who show off their potential incredibly quickly and young. For some players, it takes time, but here, if you don't deliver on day 1, you're basically useless and "the worst winger I've ever seen in professional sports."

Fair enough, you see something in him, I don't. I saw something in Buddle, I saw something in Cunningham too just so you know.

Personally, I think Peterson is horrendous and he represents the MLS of old. He represents everything I hate about unskilled players who are only good enough to play in the MLS. I don't think guys like him will surive in the MLS of the future. That's fine if I'm completely wrong. I can live with being wrong. Like Conor Casey for example. Never saw anything in that guy, and I still don't. But he obviously produces so he's obviously useful in the MLS. I've been wrong before, I could be wrong again, don't care to take a chance on the guy though with his limited skillset.

BTW - no idea why you got offended by me asking what not liking Peterson has to do with liking Nane. Still interested to hear your thoughts on that one.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 07:55 PM
In my experience, the same people who consistently belittle the efforts of Nick LaBrocca, Chad Barrett, and Jacob Peterson are the same people who believe Joseph Nane and Fuad Ibrahim should be kept, and even protected in the expansion draft, when it's incredibly obvious that neither of them should even be playing soccer.

I have a problem with Joseph Nane, on principle. He shouldn't be a professional soccer player at all. He's a fourth round pick invited by us, like idiots. He has nothing to offer, and is only there because his agent is Preki's brother, who needed highlights on his resume. This isn't confirmed but I've heard it more than once from reliable sources.

Fuad Ibrahim for me is also symbolic of just how pathetic this squad was built. He's only kept around because we don't pay for him. If we had to pay his salary, he'd easily be the biggest waste of money on our squad.

My personal thoughts on the squad?

You sign as many young, US players, make the whole goddamn squad yankee, and throw De Rosario, Cann, Attakora, and as many academy products that can cut it in MLS as you can.
Make the whole team US players, I'm talking like 18 Americans, 6 Canadians.

Then you find ONE (1) European hotshot, like Henry or Beckham, and bring um over. That's it. There's your recipe for success.
I love the Canadian soccer system, but for MLS, it's not gunna work. Do we want playoffs or do we want a Canadian team? Because, I'm sorry, one is not possible with the other. American players know how to win, they have a war like mentality that our Canadian guys just can't seem to replicate. It's down to the simple difference that American players care when they lose and Canadian players rationalize it. Chad Barrett is furious when he loses, Julian de Guzman just makes excuses and says "Oh well, we'll get um next time."

We need American players, give our squad a Canadian taste, and sign Del Piero. That's it. It's incredibly simple.

The Canadian system just can't compete with the US one. I want Toronto FC to win, and as bad as it sounds, I could care less what team Canada is doing. Funny thing is, I've grown up my entire life in Canada, but I support TORONTO and that's what needs to come into consideration. We are not team Canada, we are Toronto FC, an MLS club, and in order to be successful, we have to create an MLS club. That means, we must "Americanify" ourselves.

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 08:04 PM
In my experience, the same people who consistently belittle the efforts of Nick LaBrocca, Chad Barrett, and Jacob Peterson are the same people who believe Joseph Nane and Fuad Ibrahim should be kept, and even protected in the expansion draft, when it's incredibly obvious that neither of them should even be playing soccer.

I have a problem with Joseph Nane, on principle. He shouldn't be a professional soccer player at all. He's a fourth round pick invited by us, like idiots. He has nothing to offer, and is only there because his agent is Preki's brother, who needed highlights on his resume. This isn't confirmed but I've heard it more than once from reliable sources.

Fuad Ibrahim for me is also symbolic of just how pathetic this squad was built. He's only kept around because we don't pay for him. If we had to pay his salary, he'd easily be the biggest waste of money on our squad.

Well, I like Barrett and always have, I think Labrocca is a decent depth player. Can't stand Peterson and Ibby and don't think Nane will ever make it in the MLS. So, I'm all over the place with your theory.

I'll still never understand though why you would come up with a theory like that. What's the point of even bringing that up? I'm trying to figure out what that proves in your mind?

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 08:07 PM
It's just in my experience. A wise man named Homer once said,

"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true."

There's no solid, um... proof, if you will, that Jacob Peterson hate is directly linked with Nane love , but in general, when I've received opposition about Jacob Peterson, I scroll down and see the same people talking about Joseph Nane like he's something incredible.

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 08:08 PM
In my experience, the same people who consistently belittle the efforts of Nick LaBrocca, Chad Barrett, and Jacob Peterson are the same people who believe Joseph Nane and Fuad Ibrahim should be kept, and even protected in the expansion draft, when it's incredibly obvious that neither of them should even be playing soccer.

I have a problem with Joseph Nane, on principle. He shouldn't be a professional soccer player at all. He's a fourth round pick invited by us, like idiots. He has nothing to offer, and is only there because his agent is Preki's brother, who needed highlights on his resume. This isn't confirmed but I've heard it more than once from reliable sources.

Fuad Ibrahim for me is also symbolic of just how pathetic this squad was built. He's only kept around because we don't pay for him. If we had to pay his salary, he'd easily be the biggest waste of money on our squad.

My personal thoughts on the squad?

You sign as many young, US players, make the whole goddamn squad yankee, and throw De Rosario, Cann, Attakora, and as many academy products that can cut it in MLS as you can.
Make the whole team US players, I'm talking like 18 Americans, 6 Canadians.

Then you find ONE (1) European hotshot, like Henry or Beckham, and bring um over. That's it. There's your recipe for success.
I love the Canadian soccer system, but for MLS, it's not gunna work. Do we want playoffs or do we want a Canadian team? Because, I'm sorry, one is not possible with the other. American players know how to win, they have a war like mentality that our Canadian guys just can't seem to replicate. It's down to the simple difference that American players care when they lose and Canadian players rationalize it. Chad Barrett is furious when he loses, Julian de Guzman just makes excuses and says "Oh well, we'll get um next time."

We need American players, give our squad a Canadian taste, and sign Del Piero. That's it. It's incredibly simple.

The Canadian system just can't compete with the US one. I want Toronto FC to win, and as bad as it sounds, I could care less what team Canada is doing. Funny thing is, I've grown up my entire life in Canada, but I support TORONTO and that's what needs to come into consideration. We are not team Canada, we are Toronto FC, an MLS club, and in order to be successful, we have to create an MLS club. That means, we must "Americanify" ourselves.

And so you would close the doors to South Americans, Central Americans, North Americans (except U.S), Africans, Asians and All Europeans except Del Piero. Dude, I just don't get your posts to be honest. But hey, to each their own.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 08:15 PM
I don't close the doors to everyone except the US and Canadian players, and one European guy. But, if that is the approach we take, it wouldn't be too bad.

We're trying to be something we're not. Maybe it's because it's Toronto, an incredibly multicultural city, but at this level of play, we cannot be a mosaic of nationalities. We need whatever unity we can get, and that means we need to stick to our own.

Look at every single league in the world besides the big European leagues. Almost every single player is a local. The best teams around the world, in leagues apart from La Liga and Premier League, have very similar nationalities on the squad.

Go on wikipedia, look up almost any team that isn't one of the major European powers and you'll see this one flag taking up the whole roster. Hell, even Juventus is just filled with Italian players to their core.

In a perfect world, I'd have 24 Canadian players, all Toronto based, who are good enough to make this squad. That's, unfortunately, not our reality. But if we're flying off to Gambia and Latvia and Argentina to find obscure talent, when there are local, American/Canadian players with no language or cultural barriers preventing them from integrating into the squad smoothly, why would we bother? In this league, you need any advantage you can get, and if team chemistry and unity is there, at least in language, you've already made some progress.

KRO
10-26-2010, 08:17 PM
Fair enough, you see something in him, I don't. I saw something in Buddle, I saw something in Cunningham too just so you know.

Personally, I think Peterson is horrendous and he represents the MLS of old. He represents everything I hate about unskilled players who are only good enough to play in the MLS. I don't think guys like him will surive in the MLS of the future. That's fine if I'm completely wrong. I can live with being wrong. Like Conor Casey for example. Never saw anything in that guy, and I still don't. But he obviously produces so he's obviously useful in the MLS. I've been wrong before, I could be wrong again, don't care to take a chance on the guy though with his limited skillset.

BTW - no idea why you got offended by me asking what not liking Peterson has to do with liking Nane. Still interested to hear your thoughts on that one.
Yes there were games back in August where Peterson came on as a sub and he was horrendous. Since Preki left he has played just about every minute, seems to have lost about 20lbs and has contributed as a wide player and chipped in with a couple of goals.

He took a long time to come back from injury and lost his confidence but Dasovic showed faith in him and he has turned it around. I have changed my mind about him and would not have a problem with him coming back next year.

And by the way, I rate Joseph Nane as well. I don't care how he got signed by the club, he has a raw talent. I'd rather see him in the team than Sanyang or Saric.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 08:23 PM
Anyways, the more I watch the academy and the players they have, the more I wish we would scrap every single one of the senior roster except De Rosario, Cann, Nana and Lindsay/Henry and bring the academy up as our senior squad. The day we have an all Toronto squad, that could actually compete in MLS, would be a dream come true for me.

But, sadly, I'm realistic, and that dream will probably never happen.

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 08:29 PM
I don't close the doors to everyone except the US and Canadian players, and one European guy. But, if that is the approach we take, it wouldn't be too bad.

We're trying to be something we're not. Maybe it's because it's Toronto, an incredibly multicultural city, but at this level of play, we cannot be a mosaic of nationalities. We need whatever unity we can get, and that means we need to stick to our own.

Look at every single league in the world besides the big European leagues. Almost every single player is a local. The best teams around the world, in leagues apart from La Liga and Premier League, have very similar nationalities on the squad.

Go on wikipedia, look up almost any team that isn't one of the major European powers and you'll see this one flag taking up the whole roster. Hell, even Juventus is just filled with Italian players to their core.

In a perfect world, I'd have 24 Canadian players, all Toronto based, who are good enough to make this squad. That's, unfortunately, not our reality. But if we're flying off to Gambia and Latvia and Argentina to find obscure talent, when there are local, American/Canadian players with no language or cultural barriers preventing them from integrating into the squad smoothly, why would we bother? In this league, you need any advantage you can get, and if team chemistry and unity is there, at least in language, you've already made some progress.

Well, the defending MLS champs are full of South Americans. The top teams in the league this year have players from all over the place (NY and LA). Personally, I'd be looking at their recipe for success over anyone else. They've all essentially proven that you can make a cohesive team with players of different nationality so I personally don't buy this theory of signing only Canadians and Americans. You sign the best player you can find at every position, regardless of nationality. That's how I would build my team.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 08:33 PM
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9995/rsl.png

Sorry, but I see a whole lot of US players, Will Johnson (Who should be ours... listening FO?) and Morales, Saborio, and Olave, 3 foreign players, would be their real foreign talent.
9/24 non-North American, our equivalent to these 9 would be Canadian players, the rest, Americans, just like RSL, of course, you have some foreign talent, but you don't solely rely on them.

TFC USA
10-26-2010, 09:14 PM
I would like good players and I don't give a shit where they come from.

Heart of Stone
10-26-2010, 09:18 PM
I would like good players and I don't give a shit where they come from.

Exactly... it's a professional club...

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 09:25 PM
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9995/rsl.png

Sorry, but I see a whole lot of US players, Will Johnson (Who should be ours... listening FO?) and Morales, Saborio, and Olave, 3 foreign players, would be their real foreign talent.
9/24 non-North American, our equivalent to these 9 would be Canadian players, the rest, Americans, just like RSL, of course, you have some foreign talent, but you don't solely rely on them.

First off, nobody said you rely on foreign talent soley. You said you wouldn't rely on them at all and that's what we are talking about here.

15 American players on the team and 1 Canadian.
9 Foreigners who according to your theory you wouldn't have on the team.

If you think guys like Morales, Saborio, Olave, Espindola and Williams are easily replaceable then all I can say is I completely disagree.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 09:26 PM
I'm just really traditional in football clubs. I can't stand huge clubs, like Barcelona and Manchester United.

I'd rather be the local side with local players.

Pachuco
10-26-2010, 09:31 PM
I'm just really traditional in football clubs. I can't stand huge clubs, like Barcelona and Manchester United.

I'd rather be the local side with local players.

Barcelona has 11 Spanish players right now most of which are part of a world cup and euro cup winning team. Not only that, some of the foreigners they have like Messi they actually brought up through their Academy. Barcelona is quite possibly the worst example in the world you could have given me for big clubs who don't have local talent.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 09:35 PM
Barcelona has 11 Spanish players right now most of which are part of a world cup and euro cup winning team. Not only that, some of the foreigners they have like Messi they actually brought up through their Academy. Barcelona is quite possibly the worst example in the world you could have given me for big clubs who don't have local talent.

Didn't backspace enough. I meant to type something along the lines of I'd rather be like Barcelona, not Real Madrid or Man U.

Alas, I was distracted by someone of a female gender :P Such is the curse of our kind :P

ExiledRed
10-26-2010, 09:36 PM
yeah jimmy, you made an excellent point earlier, dont spoil it now.

You're sarting to drift all over the place.

you prefer local players but you want the roster to be 6 canadians and the rest americans, with one european?

what?

An all Toronto squad, would be like an all liverpool squad or an all manchester squad.....crap.

JonO
10-26-2010, 09:44 PM
I'd add Barrett to that list and maybe Harden.
Barrett's already on the list and I would definitely add Harden. Many people seem to disagree with me, but he's a valuable bench player with a low salary. I have confidence in him coming off the bench and he affords us salary cap space to spend elsewhere...

JonO
10-26-2010, 09:48 PM
I'm a little torn on Peterson. I'm pretty sure he was coming off a pretty substantial knee injury -so how much of his poor first touch was due to rust/lack of confidence. He definitely played better at the end of the season. Was that just luck or was he finally fully fit? I'm happy to let the new management decide. I won't be too upset if we give him another shot.

ArmenJBX
10-26-2010, 09:49 PM
Yeah, I don't know what I'm saying anymore.

Stress is gunna be the death of me lol :D

I just want a winning squad. I'd prefer a local, North American winning squad, but in reality, I just want to see that damn MLS cup in De Rosario's hands. That's all, and I figure that's the same for everyone else.

We can agree on that much, no? :D

jloome
10-26-2010, 09:52 PM
Yeah, I don't know what I'm saying anymore.

Stress is gunna be the death of me lol :D

I just want a winning squad. I'd prefer a local, North American winning squad, but in reality, I just want to see that damn MLS cup in De Rosario's hands. That's all, and I figure that's the same for everyone else.

We can agree on that much, no? :D

What you're proposing isn't actually impossible. There are some very good coaches out there who've structured teams with mostly local players and let them form over time into a cohesive and combative unit that can play with anyone.

It's just not the norm. Would be nice though.

ag futbol
10-26-2010, 11:42 PM
I noticed from today that Barrett said he's under contract but not guaranteed for next season. Maybe that gives us the opportunity to restructure some things and save some cap room. I think 125-150 is reasonable.

Macksam
10-27-2010, 08:06 AM
Anyways, the more I watch the academy and the players they have, the more I wish we would scrap every single one of the senior roster except De Rosario, Cann, Nana and Lindsay/Henry and bring the academy up as our senior squad. The day we have an all Toronto squad, that could actually compete in MLS, would be a dream come true for me.

But, sadly, I'm realistic, and that dream will probably never happen.
Not in the immediate future, but a possibility 6 to 10 years down the road.

Blowing Bubbles
10-27-2010, 08:20 AM
we need to get rid of 75% of this roster and reload with solid value South and Central Americans like the more successful teams in this league have.

I don't understand why JDG is a shoe-in to come back. I'd also be open to moving Barrett if possible just to get more cap room.

Some of the < 100k guys like Santos and Labrocca are fine and can stay for continuity. But we need to move guys who create no value.

Redpunkfiddle
10-27-2010, 08:28 AM
Didn't backspace enough. I meant to type something along the lines of I'd rather be like Barcelona, not Real Madrid or Man U.

Alas, I was distracted by someone of a female gender :P Such is the curse of our kind :P

Both hands on the keyboard, soldier..

Section 117
10-27-2010, 08:31 AM
Jimmy

I highly doubt that you will ever have a squad of all Toronto born players. This is not realistic. I have seen the academy play on several occasions and IMO I don't think we have any palyers that have the potential to be starters on any other MLS squads.

We started players from the academy because are team is a joke it is by far the most poorly managed club I have ever seen. The majority of the players on TFC's roster are at best best depth players and we pay them starters money. This includes Peterson, I am sorry but a couple iof decent games do not justify him staying here period. I have been around this game too long not to notice things that make me believe he is not a starter on any other team but ours. Peterson's touch is on par with many of the players in my mens league. He can't shoot if his life depended on it, no pace and all he can do his a decent cross 50% of the time. With a league that has a hard salary cap you can't spend significant money on bench players without first addressing our startng line up.

A little tid bit of info that last team to win a major championship with all the players from one city was Celtic in the 1967 the won the European title with all players born within 30 miles of the pitch.

You also used Buddle and I think Casey as examples of players being run out of town by fans. I am not sure if you actually know that both Buddle and Casey did not want to be here. So as much as we gave up on them they gave up on us first by asking to leave. BTW I can score 10 -15 goals in this leaguse if Ladycakes and Golden Balls were setting me up.

__wowza
10-27-2010, 08:32 AM
i hope ibby doesnt go. then i wouldn't be able to post..

DID SOMEONE SAY FUAD IBRAHIM?
http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/default/files/image_nodes/2010/03/fIbrahim.jpg

Oldtimer
10-27-2010, 08:53 AM
I really can't ever see a 100% Toronto squad, it doesn't happen in most parts of the world.

How many Roma players come from Rome?
How Many Manchester United players come from Manchester?
How many Barcelona players come from Barcelona?

Barcelona is exceptional in that they have many Spanish players (not all from Barcelona, though), but even they have Samuel Eto'o.

If TFC ends up with a decent number of Canadian players and some representation from Toronto, while building a winner, most people will be happy.

Wull
10-27-2010, 08:57 AM
I really can't ever see a 100% Toronto squad, it doesn't happen in most parts of the world.

How many Roma players come from Rome?
How Many Manchester United players come from Manchester?
How many Barcelona players come from Barcelona?

Barcelona is exceptional in that they have many Spanish players (not all from Barcelona, though), but even they have Samuel Eto'o.

If TFC ends up with a decent number of Canadian players and some representation from Toronto, while building a winner, most people will be happy.

He's at Inter, they swapped him and countless millions for ibrahimovic :picard: (that's for the deal, not for you)

Fort York Redcoat
10-27-2010, 09:14 AM
Barcelona has 11 Spanish players right now most of which are part of a world cup and euro cup winning team. Not only that, some of the foreigners they have like Messi they actually brought up through their Academy. Barcelona is quite possibly the worst example in the world you could have given me for big clubs who don't have local talent.

Barca has 11 players from Spain? That's okay I guess but how many are Catalan?:D

Cashcleaner
10-27-2010, 09:35 AM
It looks like the players who are meeting the management and the media are the ones that they intend to keep around:

Henry
Lindsay
Macion
Barrett
Cann
Gargan
Nana
JDG
DeRo
Frei

Don't the rest of the players get assessed, or they basically said go home for now.

A pretty sound theory, to be honest. Mista is missing, which makes sense given some of the remarks said by the higher-ups about his performance. I don't see Barrett, Gargan, JDG, DeRo, or Frei leaving either, so you just might be on to something.