Sounders' Success Great for football in N America

[Oldtimer]

Read the following article, the Sounders are having a global impact.

I'm trying hard not to be jealous... it's where TFC could be had ML$E better managed things:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sounders/2013242565_soundersfc24.html

If TFC can learn from these guys, we too can have an even bigger impact than we have ever had.


Let's aim high, the Sounders FC ownership group said.
"The biggest thing is what you do at the very beginning because it's hard to turn around a brand once you've launched," said Hanauer, who also serves as the general manager and owned Seattle's United Soccer Leagues team before joining MLS.
Hanauer brought soccer enthusiasm and business acumen to Roth's enterprise. Carey, a TV actor and comedian, brought name recognition and a fan's perspective. Allen, also the billionaire owner of the NFL's Seahawks and NBA's Portland Trail Blazers, brought money and experience.
Equally important was a partnership with the Seahawks that spawned several innovative ideas:
Implementing a showstopping, rave-green color scheme. Earning a lucrative sponsorship with Microsoft. Landing perhaps the league's best coach in Sigi Schmid. Signing one of the greatest American soccer players in goalkeeper Kasey Keller, a Lacey native; and then international star Freddie Ljungberg.

[Roogsy]

Someone please email this article to Paul B and Tom A.



Let's aim high, the Sounders FC ownership group said.



Ugh...I feel sick to my stomach.




Equally important was a partnership with the Seahawks that spawned several innovative ideas:
Implementing a showstopping, rave-green color scheme. Earning a lucrative sponsorship with Microsoft. Landing perhaps the league's best coach in Sigi Schmid. Signing one of the greatest American soccer players in goalkeeper Kasey Keller, a Lacey native; and then international star Freddie Ljungberg.
Not every move was perfect — like trying to get rid of the tradition-drenched Sounders name that dates to the 1970s. Some were head-scratchingly original: Hanauer can be voted out as general manager by a fan-based Alliance Council after the 2012 season — an idea championed by Carey and based on the F.C. Barcelona model.


Innovation stopped at TFC in year 1.

[spark]

Yeah that was one thing that bugged me at the townhalls and the whole 2010 season recap was the goal was to make the playoffs. Way to set the bar low. We have to start talking about mls cup if tfc is going to get anywhere.

[flatpicker]

Well, I guess it's healthy to start the day off with a good cry.

[Darlofletch]

I've been jealous of Seattle since they started. I went to the game there this year and the atmosphere and everything's great. This is what TFC could have become, hopefully still can. And by focussing mainly on the football side of things, they must be making an absolute mint, the merch was flying off the shelves there.

also agree with Spark, it was annoying to hear anslemi talk about a few tweaks to get us over the finish line and into the playoffs. the playoffs shouldn't be considred the finish line.

[SmokedPanda]

Leafs and Raptors have been "trying to make the playoffs" for awhile now as well.

"making the playoffs" is the ML$E business plan because once they make the 1st round of the playoffs they can increase season ticket prices care free.

[Pachuco]

I will continue to laugh at the people that thought the Sounders had a fluke of a season last year when they got off to a bad start this season. Oh how some people just can't see a good club waiting to explode.

The craziest part of the Sounders success is that they are near the bottom when it comes to average age in the MLS. They are are very young team and they are enjoying a lot of success.

The Sounders have been a properly run organization from the moment they entered into the MLS. TFC on the other hand is having to apologize 4 years later.

[Roogsy]

I will continue to laugh at the people that thought the Sounders had a fluke of a season last year when they got off to a bad start this season. Oh how some people just can't see a good club waiting to explode.

The craziest part of the Sounders success is that they are near the bottom when it comes to average age in the MLS. They are are very young team and they are enjoying a lot of success.

The Sounders have been a properly run organization from the moment they entered into the MLS. TFC on the other hand is having to apologize 4 years later.


Two new clubs, one is showing how to properly build a club and capitalize on the enthusiasm of a community, the other has shown how to ruin a good thing. TFC is getting it's handed to them by Seattle and I am not talking about on the pitch.

[JonO]

To be fair, Seattle took a lot from TFC's playbook. The difference, it appears, is that Seattle built on it and TFC tried to milk it...

[Pookie]

Want to see this place go apeshit?

Wait for Vancouver and Montreal.

[Roogsy]

To be fair, Seattle took a lot from TFC's playbook. The difference, it appears, is that Seattle built on it and TFC tried to milk it...


This is 100% bang on.

And the difference comes down to ownership. MLSE could have had what Seattle now has if only they had thought of TFC as different from the Leafs and the Raptors. They didn't and now have regressed back to a relationship with the fanbase that is not even at the year 1 level.

[Roogsy]

Want to see this place go apeshit?

Wait for Vancouver and Montreal.



Yup. TFC had a 4 year head start on both of these cities and have probably derived little benefit from that head start. It was time wasted.

[Whoop]

Want to see this place go apeshit?

Wait for Vancouver and Montreal.

Oh yeah.

I think Vancouver will have a better squad than TFC next year.

[werewolf]

I think Vancouver will win the Canadian Championship next season, and when they make the CL, I highly doubt there will be any Panamanian debacles.

[Darlofletch]

I wrote a blog on this a couple of weeks back just before all the apologising started. I'll just copy it here rather than make people click to a seperate website, but I still feel the same way, it seems like MLSE realises it has to try harder now, hopefully they go all out for the gm/coach side of things.




I've just returned from vacation, during which I saw TFC games against Seattle and Chivas, two very different sides of the MLS experience, and seeing as how TFC was already out of contention for the playoffs, it really gave me a chance to focus less on the games and more on the overall atmosphere surrounding both clubs, and how it could relate to TFC and their future, and it all seems to have a very Scrooge like theme to me. Think Tom Anselmi as Ebenezer Scrooge, Paul Beirne can be Bob Cratchett I suppose, and Tiny Tim? Young and permanently crocked, step up Emmanuel Gomez.

Anyway, first up Seattle.

1. We have grass, Seattle has plastic.
2. Our kits are better.
3. We don't have advertisements broadcast over the loudspeakers during the game.

That's it. It's been over a week since we played in Seattle, and those are still the only ways I can think of that TFC and being a TFC supporter is better than what Seattle has, and one of those is merely a subjective matter of taste.

A list of ways that the Sounders are better than TFC would take a long long time, but it obviously all starts at the top. Whereas MLSE is very much a business that is expected to make ever increasing profits, Seattle has owners in Drew Carey and Paul Allen that are a) independently wealthy and b) soccer fans, so their main motivation is winning, and profit (and with the size of the crowd and the way merchandise was flying off the shelf, there's got to be a ridiculous amount of profit there) is secondary.

Unlike MLSE's cautious approach, starting with Mo Johnston, and deciding it wasn't worth spending money on a DP right away, right from the start they were committed to winning, illegally luring then coach of the year Sigi Schmid away from Columbus, and signing good players including DP Freddie Ljungberg. The Ljungberg experiment went wrong earlier this year, but they reloaded, including signing striker Blaise Nkufo and Uruguayan world cup player Alvaro Fernandez, and have recovered from a slow start to work their way into a playoff spot again.

The difference in the quality and depth of squads was shown most effectively in the substitutes during the game, Seattle bringing on Fernandez and Nate Jacqua who scored 9 goals last year which is more than anyone except Dwayne De Rosario has managed in any TFC season. TFC? Well we got Nick Garcia, O'Brian White and recent academy call-up Nicholas Lindsay, and our DP striker? Mista pulled himself out of the line-up pre game with a foot injury.

All this ambition, winning, playoff appearances and US Open triumphs (Seattle won their second consecutive last wednesday, beating Columbus in the final) have kept the fans coming and involved, and made sure Qwest field remains a genuinely exciting place to watch a game. With some very noisy supporters groups, joined occasionally in the more simple chants by the rest of the sold out 36,000+ crowd, and with a real anticipatory buzz throughout the stadium, it was a great experience. This was Christmas past, a reminder of TFC's early days when the stadium was packed and fans were excited just to have a team, before 4 years of constant ineptitude sucked the life out of the more casual BMO field attendees. Basically TFC crowd circa 2007 + winning = Sounders crowd. I'm officially jealous, hopefully there's still a chance that sort of atmosphere can return if the right moves are made and we finally start winning.

If Seattle was a great experience, and an example of what TFC can hopefully be again if they do things right, then last Saturday's game against Chivas is the other side of the coin, TFC's depressing ghost of Christmas future, what will happen if TFC continues to stagnate and lose and the front office continues to alienate people with ticket price increases and their seeming indifference to supporter concerns.

It's not all bad there by any means, they do have a couple of supporters groups doing their best, the ones I met were very friendly, as well as amusingly contemptuous of Preki, but they're fighting what right now seems to be a losing battle against a half empty stadium and a barely interested crowd who seemed most excited when the wave got going.

The bit that really scares me, and what I really hope to never see at BMO field, is what the club does to try and get the crowd involved. A mascot, cheerleaders, hundreds of people on the pitch involved with the pre-game stuff, all the usual North American razzmatazz that TFC refreshingly decided to avoid at first. Even worse was loud music and "goooooooooooooooooooooolllll" after each goal, drowning out the crowd at the one time they actually do get excited. Terrible. If the crowds don't come back to BMO and they end up having to resort to that sort of thing to try and attract new fans, well, that might be the moment I decide to give up my season tickets.

So, TFC are clearly at a crossroads, about to start again, with a new management and coaching team to be hired and a squad to be rebuilt. Hopefully this time they don't go cheap, but instead, Scrooge sends a boy to buy the biggest goose in the shop window, copying Seattle's plan and getting the best people, price and legalities be damned. If not, well the future could well be a pretty bleak one.

[Beach_Red]

This is 100% bang on.

And the difference comes down to ownership. MLSE could have had what Seattle now has if only they had thought of TFC as different from the Leafs and the Raptors. They didn't and now have regressed back to a relationship with the fanbase that is not even at the year 1 level.

Actually I think it would have gone better if they had thought of TFC as more like the Leafs and handed over the team to a proper president and not tried to run it themselves.

I also think one of the problems is that we simply assumed they would put together a proper front office and we didn't look too deeply into it for the first couple of years.

Now they're acting like they got caught, like they sold a car with a rolled back the odometer and saying they won't do it again.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I had forgotten about the free game that Seattle's FO promised its fan base after the 4-0 loss. Only a single bad game resulted in that gesture, while four seasons of bad results, fan protests and town hall meetings were required to gain the equivalent from MLSE.

[Roogsy]

I had forgotten about the free game that Seattle's FO promised its fan base after the 4-0 loss. Only a single bad game resulted in that gesture, while four seasons of bad results, fan protests and town hall meetings were required to gain the equivalent from MLSE.


In a nutshell, this should paint a pretty good picture at the difference between the two clubs.

[Detroit_TFC]

The Seattle ownership group used the Seahawks marketing staff to leverage the SSFC launch and insert the team much deeper into the Seattle sports market than people expected. They did consciously what MLSE/TFC did coincidentally.

[Thrillos]

The Seattle ownership group used the Seahawks marketing staff to leverage the SSFC launch and insert the team much deeper into the Seattle sports market than people expected. They did consciously what MLSE/TFC did coincidentally.

Really like this, MLSE got lucky in year one, and continued to exert minimal effort, while SSFC only upped there level of effort into year 2 and most likely going into year 3, since they have that election coming up soon.

That election is genius, too bad we can't have one for the owners :D

[Heathen]

I had forgotten about the free game that Seattle's FO promised its fan base after the 4-0 loss. Only a single bad game resulted in that gesture, while four seasons of bad results, fan protests and town hall meetings were required to gain the equivalent from MLSE.

but wasn't that free game after a fan protest or threat of a boycott, I may be wrong

[Pookie]

^ nope. It was one day later that they issued credit:


Disappointing performance in front of record crowd provokes collaborative management decision

RENTON, Wash. - The Seattle Sounders FC announced today that a refund for Saturday's game against the Los Angeles Galaxy will be issued to season ticket holders in the form of credit towards 2011 season tickets.

Sounders FC allowed four goals for the first time at home in club history as the Galaxy won 4-0 in front of a franchise record crowd of 36,273 on the Xbox Pitch at Qwest Field. It was only the second time the club has allowed more than one goal at home in a league match.

"That wasn't Sounders soccer and it was quite frankly embarrassing, humiliating and the fans don't deserve that," said Sounders FC owner and general manager Adrian Hanauer. "The refund will come in the form of a credit against next year's season tickets. We want our fans committed for the long haul and we think this is the right thing to do for our fans."

"As the owners of the club we reserve the right to do whatever we think we need to do to treat our fans the way they've treated us."

In its inaugural season, Sounders FC capped season tickets at 22,000 and averaged 30,943 fans per match, establishing a new MLS record for highest fan average per match. This season 32,000 Sounders FC season tickets were sold at a 96 percent renewal rate with a league-high average attendance of 36,144 over five games.

"I think it is a fair tribute to our fans," said Sounders FC head coach Sigi Schmid in reaction to the decision. "I said to the team today that the fans support throughout the game and the way they remained and they supported us after the game was phenomenal."

"I think the organization has made all the right marketing decisions and all the right moves and they feel that this is what is needed to show our fans we are appreciative of what they do week in and week out."

http://www.soundersfc.com/News/Articles/2010/05-May/Sounders-to-issue-refund.aspx

[ArmenJBX]

I love how everyone agrees we should aim high but when I throw a name around as a possible signing, I'm given the "FIFA trader" nonsense.

Do you think Seattle gave a shit that Freddie Ljungburg was a huge name that he was possibly unsignable? How bout Chicago and Nery Castillo? LA Galaxy and David Beckham?

I never understood why people just assume we can't sign certain players. We need to aim high, in player acquisition, in day to day dealings, everything. Everything. The standard has been so low it's influenced even the best of us, to a point where the signing of the likes of Hunter Freeman, a subpar American right back in Norway, has become an impossibility by default. It's this Canadian passive mentality that has plagued this club more than Mo. Seattle would never say never until the other team tells them to go fuck themselves. We don't even try. That's on Mo, and we need to hold the new GM to this higher standard.

It's why, when a name is said, we shouldn't shoot it down immediately. FO reads these boards, and if the general opinion is that certain players are unsignable and are, therefore, forgivable if not signed, then what's the point in them trying? If we say "Yes, we should have this player on our team, we deserve him" instead of saying "Impossible, FIFA trader, never gunna happen, don't even try", no wonder FO doesn't try.

You have more influence than it may seem. Make it count.

[dupont]

I never understood why people just assume we can't sign certain players.

It's like they are making the excuses for MLSE. We CAN sign someone awesome. They just need to go out and do it. Some people would turn it down but others would say yes if enough money and effort is thrown their way.

[Roogsy]

I love how everyone agrees we should aim high but when I throw a name around as a possible signing, I'm given the "FIFA trader" nonsense.


Because you are constantly throwing up names within MLS that are on cheap contracts compared to their production as opposed to suggesting possible players available on free transfers. There is a difference. We'd all like to have Wondolowski and his cheap contract compared to his golden boot winning season, but that's not going to happen in a single-entity league like MLS. Ljundberg was available on a free transfer and was looking to come to America if the money was right. This is apples and oranges. Find us a name that is available on a free transfer and would make an immediate impact and nobody will accuse you of playing FIFA trader.

[ArmenJBX]

What's wrong with FIFA trader though? :D

There are no names on free transfers. They're free for a reason, they were no good.

We need to STEAL players away from their teams, and grab some real quality :D

[jloome]

I love how everyone agrees we should aim high but when I throw a name around as a possible signing, I'm given the "FIFA trader" nonsense.

Do you think Seattle gave a shit that Freddie Ljungburg was a huge name that he was possibly unsignable? How bout Chicago and Nery Castillo? LA Galaxy and David Beckham?

I never understood why people just assume we can't sign certain players. We need to aim high, in player acquisition, in day to day dealings, everything. Everything. The standard has been so low it's influenced even the best of us, to a point where the signing of the likes of Hunter Freeman, a subpar American right back in Norway, has become an impossibility by default. It's this Canadian passive mentality that has plagued this club more than Mo. Seattle would never say never until the other team tells them to go fuck themselves. We don't even try. That's on Mo, and we need to hold the new GM to this higher standard.

It's why, when a name is said, we shouldn't shoot it down immediately. FO reads these boards, and if the general opinion is that certain players are unsignable and are, therefore, forgivable if not signed, then what's the point in them trying? If we say "Yes, we should have this player on our team, we deserve him" instead of saying "Impossible, FIFA trader, never gunna happen, don't even try", no wonder FO doesn't try.

You have more influence than it may seem. Make it count.

Dude: Think. Yes, we have the possibility of signing someone expensive, but only if that person can be justified as such.

The Scandinavian leagues pay, on average about six times' more per average salary in MLS. Chris Rolfe, for example, makes about $600,000 per season.

Freeman is not good enough to be a DP. But he is too expensive to be a regular signing.

That's why everyone's shitting on the idea: unless he gets cut and we traded for his rights from NY (and why, given his mediocrity, would we bother?), it would be impossible.

[ArmenJBX]

You think he wants to live in Norway? The dude's there for the money. Offer him 250k, bring him over and tell him, hey buddy, your European dream ain't happening, we all know you'll end up back in MLS on the wrong side of 30, and get less pay for it. How bout you come over now and make it a reality earlier on.

Unless the dude's happy living in Norway, which I can't see because he's like one of 10 American players there, there's no reason for him not to want to return to MLS. But that's just one guy.

It seems like people just assume we can't sign players, and that the only kind of players we can sign are those who are out of contract. That's simply not good enough. Look at New York, besides Henry and Marquez, they signed Lindpere, Albright, and Ballouchy, through trades or good signings. Those are solid players on their own. Forget about their DPs, New York would be doing just fine without them.

We can't just start from the bottom and work our way up, then we're just signing whatever shit player says yes. You look from the top and work down, because the few that say yes will be strong players for this squad instead of uselessness like Usanov and Hscanovics. Where do we find these jokers? Obviously, it's because we worked from the bottom up, as opposed from the top down, because, let's be honest, Latvia is not a top league in the world, nor is Gambia, nor is USL. We have to look at LA LIGA, SERIE A, and perhaps the Argentina and/or Brazilian leagues.

If Toronto FC can't attract top talent, and bring them over, then we've already failed as a soccer club. It's over. Close up shop, because if the best we can do is Academy, USL and MLS fringe players, we're screwed. Dream fucking big, and you'll achieve it. Otherwise, gtfo of the GM position, because whoever comes next cannot continue the shit job Mo has done. He needs to have a passion for winning, and attracting top talent. Seattle would never sign the likes of Hscanovics, because they know they can do better, and you want to know why they can do better? They approach their signings not with a "Oh, he'll do..." attitude, but with a "This player better make our squad better" one. It's an American competitive attitude in all fields that makes them better than us. That's all. We're only competitive in hockey, but in business, Canada as a nation is horribly behind the US. Now, i'm not getting into business politics and whatnot, but the American mentality, especially in sports, in ALL sports, not just hockey, is to be the best.

We want to make playoffs. That's not good enough. That's a losers mentality. We should aim to win the fucking FIFA club World Cup. We have adopted the mentality of a loser team. That needs to change. Otherwise, we'll make the first round of playoffs at best. Fuck that. I want glory for this club, thus, the talent that is brought in should be capable of delivering the best result possible, not just a "hard worker" or a "good guy", and if I here that playoffs is good enough from the next GM, I've already lost faith. Chelsea doesn't dream of Champions League qualification, they dream of the whole fucking thing. We need to do the same. We need to SPEAK like winners, ACT like winners, and eventually, PLAY like winners.

[jloome]

You think he wants to live in Norway? The dude's there for the money. Offer him 250k, bring him over and tell him, hey buddy, your European dream ain't happening, we all know you'll end up back in MLS on the wrong side of 30, and get less pay for it. How bout you come over now and make it a reality earlier on.

Unless the dude's happy living in Norway, which I can't see because he's like one of 10 American players there, there's no reason for him not to want to return to MLS. But that's just one guy.

It seems like people just assume we can't sign players, and that the only kind of players we can sign are those who are out of contract. That's simply not good enough. Look at New York, besides Henry and Marquez, they signed Lindpere, Albright, and Ballouchy, through trades or good signings. Those are solid players on their own. Forget about their DPs, New York would be doing just fine without them.

We can't just start from the bottom and work our way up, then we're just signing whatever shit player says yes. You look from the top and work down, because the few that say yes will be strong players for this squad instead of uselessness like Usanov and Hscanovics. Where do we find these jokers? Obviously, it's because we worked from the bottom up, as opposed from the top down, because, let's be honest, Latvia is not a top league in the world, nor is Gambia, nor is USL. We have to look at LA LIGA, SERIE A, and perhaps the Argentina and/or Brazilian leagues.

If Toronto FC can't attract top talent, and bring them over, then we've already failed as a soccer club. It's over. Close up shop, because if the best we can do is Academy, USL and MLS fringe players, we're screwed. Dream fucking big, and you'll achieve it. Otherwise, gtfo of the GM position, because whoever comes next cannot continue the shit job Mo has done. He needs to have a passion for winning, and attracting top talent. Seattle would never sign the likes of Hscanovics, because they know they can do better, and you want to know why they can do better? They approach their signings not with a "Oh, he'll do..." attitude, but with a "This player better make our squad better" one. It's an American competitive attitude in all fields that makes them better than us. That's all. We're only competitive in hockey, but in business, Canada as a nation is horribly behind the US. Now, i'm not getting into business politics and whatnot, but the American mentality, especially in sports, in ALL sports, not just hockey, is to be the best.

We want to make playoffs. That's not good enough. That's a losers mentality. We should aim to win the fucking FIFA club World Cup. We have adopted the mentality of a loser team. That needs to change. Otherwise, we'll make the first round of playoffs at best. Fuck that. I want glory for this club, thus, the talent that is brought in should be capable of delivering the best result possible, not just a "hard worker" or a "good guy", and if I here that playoffs is good enough from the next GM, I've already lost faith. Chelsea doesn't dream of Champions League qualification, they dream of the whole fucking thing. We need to do the same. We need to SPEAK like winners, ACT like winners, and eventually, PLAY like winners.

Jimmy, the greatest lesson you could take -- anyone could take -- as a teenager debating this stuff on here with people who have spent a little more time in the world is to have HUMILITY.

IF people present you with logical reasons why something won't work -- or at least their view of the logic -- address their specific points. If you can't, just suck it up and say "oh, ok, I can see that." By turning to tangential, related points to bolster your own overall stance, you're providing what's known as a "strawman" argument.

It's not a fault to admit you're wrong and learn from it, because everyone is wrong sometimes. Without error, there'd be far less discovery in the world. With less discovery, we'd naturally make fewer accurate decisions, because rationalization is based on the best available evidence.

There's absolutely nothing in your response that presents a rational, logical reason why Hunter Freeman would want to come back here.

It's not about "living" in Norway. It's about competing in Europe, where clubs in bigger leagues see you regularly, where football is more revered, and where the pay is much higher.

So, no, there's no realistic reason, no rational reason, to think we could offer him 250K to come here (which is too damn expensive for a winger/fullback anyway in this league.)

We weren't talking about not being able to sign the big names. We were talking about not being able to sign the guy you suggested.

On the whole, though, I think we'd all agree it would be nice for the fans if we were taking New York's approach, even though the club might consequentially lose money for the duration.

[rocker]

Sounders have a little ticketing issue.....

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/10/ravegreenbacks.html

[ArmenJBX]

LOL, jloome, you're not the first to have told me... I know I'm a bit of an extreme opinion :D

I understand your argument. I will try to make a better effort in showing that.
Sorry if I offended anyone in the process.

[CretanBull]

You think he wants to live in Norway?

Probably. He's making great money and lives in a country with a really high standard of living.

[rocker]

Oh yeah.

I think Vancouver will have a better squad than TFC next year.

I think Vancouver and Portland are going to have a tough time, and will probably finish near dead last.

Coming in together is tough. Everything's watered down.

They'll also have to fight against teams who failed this year but are going to reload and rebuild.

[TFCRegina]

What's wrong with FIFA trader though? :D

There are no names on free transfers. They're free for a reason, they were no good.

We need to STEAL players away from their teams, and grab some real quality :D

Tell that to Lyon. They went from a crap Ligue 2 side to a European powerhouse in the space of 20 years spending pretty much nothing (relative to other teams) on transfers. They built a club on free transfers.

[Auzzy]

Tell that to Lyon. They went from a crap Ligue 2 side to a European powerhouse in the space of 20 years spending pretty much nothing (relative to other teams) on transfers. They built a club on free transfers.

Soccernomics Yeah!

[CretanBull]

I think Vancouver and Portland are going to have a tough time, and will probably finish near dead last.

Coming in together is tough. Everything's watered down.

They'll also have to fight against teams who failed this year but are going to reload and rebuild.

The expansion teams don't really build themselves through the expansion draft though, often they pick the players with the lowest salaries simply because they have to pick someone.

Vancouver and Portland are going to come up with some players from the ULS that should be decent bench/depth players, they'll add one or two serviceable players from the expansion draft, their 1st round picks might crack their lineups and they'll fill out the bulk of their starting XI by signing players.

I'm less familiar with Portland than I am with Vancouver, but the Whitecaps have done a great job of positioning themselves to be successfull right out of the gate.

[Thrillos]

LOL, jloome, you're not the first to have told me... I know I'm a bit of an extreme opinion :D

I understand your argument. I will try to make a better effort in showing that.
Sorry if I offended anyone in the process.


I agree with you 100% Jimmy, it's the ones that have posted how there was no chance we would ever sign "insert rumored DP" that we haven't gotten a big name DP yet.

Its also sad that the FO probably has a few people who's sole job is to read these boards and brief the head guys on the general consensus. Which is horrible, because most of the posts on this board, should not be even regarded as "feedback" whatsoever as they are completely useless to the actual running of the club.

[Keystone FC]

The expansion teams don't really build themselves through the expansion draft though, often they pick the players with the lowest salaries simply because they have to pick someone.

Vancouver and Portland are going to come up with some players from the ULS that should be decent bench/depth players, they'll add one or two serviceable players from the expansion draft, their 1st round picks might crack their lineups and they'll fill out the bulk of their starting XI by signing players.

I'm less familiar with Portland than I am with Vancouver, but the Whitecaps have done a great job of positioning themselves to be successfull right out of the gate.
This is where I think TFC parts ways with the likes of Sounders, Timbers, and Caps. In reality these clubs are nothing like TFC. These clubs have a deep history wit htradition and loads of experience. They are not exactly starting from scratch like TFC did. These clubs have players and have already signed a few players for their MLS side. They have scouts, a FO that is soccer experienced and a fanbase that knows the faces of the club and the faces on the pitch.
If you really want to compare a club with TFC then it would be the Union. That was brass nuts bolts grassroots from the get go.
I know the media and people here wanted to compare TFC with Seattle from the start but I refused to just on the baises of you can't compare a 4 year old with a 30+ year old.

[Pookie]

This is where I think TFC parts ways with the likes of Sounders, Timbers, and Caps. In reality these clubs are nothing like TFC. These clubs have a deep history wit htradition and loads of experience. They are not exactly starting from scratch like TFC did. These clubs have players and have already signed a few players for their MLS side. They have scouts, a FO that is soccer experienced and a fanbase that knows the faces of the club and the faces on the pitch.
If you really want to compare a club with TFC then it would be the Union. That was brass nuts bolts grassroots from the get go.
I know the media and people here wanted to compare TFC with Seattle from the start but I refused to just on the baises of you can't compare a 4 year old with a 30+ year old.

I wish I saved the link but there was a great article comparing the management structure of the Whitecaps vs TFC, as they prepared to go forward in the MLS.

The long and short of it was that they have built a solid group or infrastructure whereas we had very little in comparison.

Hopefully, Tom Anselmi's consultant(s) give that some attention.

[Macksam]

I will continue to laugh at the people that thought the Sounders had a fluke of a season last year when they got off to a bad start this season. Oh how some people just can't see a good club waiting to explode.

The craziest part of the Sounders success is that they are near the bottom when it comes to average age in the MLS. They are are very young team and they are enjoying a lot of success.

The Sounders have been a properly run organization from the moment they entered into the MLS. TFC on the other hand is having to apologize 4 years later.
I thought having a young team would be complete suicide?

[Macksam]

Tell that to Lyon. They went from a crap Ligue 2 side to a European powerhouse in the space of 20 years spending pretty much nothing (relative to other teams) on transfers. They built a club on free transfers.
True, but now that they are a European powerhouse, they do delve into the transfer market with big budget purchases like Lisandro and Gourcouff.

[rocker]

a commentary on the Sounders raising ticket prices.... interesting that 30% of sounders fans are unemployed now.

http://www.sounderatheart.com/2010/10/25/1774600/ticket-prices-and-economic-conditions

[Pachuco]

I thought having a young team would be complete suicide?

Goes to show how much you don't listen. There's a BIG difference between having a young team relative to the age in MLS then your roster consisting of 4 - 16 year old Canadians, 4 - 17 year old Canadians and 4 - 18 year old Canadians from the academy. That my friend is suicide.

Steve Zakuani is 22 and he's (I think) their youngest starter.

Try again.

[Oldtimer]

a commentary on the Sounders raising ticket prices.... interesting that 30% of sounders fans are unemployed now.

http://www.sounderatheart.com/2010/10/25/1774600/ticket-prices-and-economic-conditions

They should wear GREEN to protest. Oh wait.... :D

[jloome]

LOL, jloome, you're not the first to have told me... I know I'm a bit of an extreme opinion :D

I understand your argument. I will try to make a better effort in showing that.
Sorry if I offended anyone in the process.

No no, never offended, just disappointed or impressed. You need to be surprised to be offended, and nothing surprises me anymore (particularly when my points AREN'T as iron-clad as assumed them to be and I'm being a know-it-all twat.):D

[JonO]

I'm being a know-it-all twat
+1 :p

[rocker]

They should wear GREEN to protest. Oh wait.... :D

haha.. well... they can wear red... red = angry! ;)

all supporters on both sides can switch shirts for a game ;)

[TFCRegina]

True, but now that they are a European powerhouse, they do delve into the transfer market with big budget purchases like Lisandro and Gourcouff.

Yes, true, but Ligue 2 is of higher quality than MLS, so it shouldn't be hard to find players of frees.

[Oldtimer]

Yes, true, but Ligue 2 is of higher quality than MLS, so it shouldn't be hard to find players of frees.

Not really true (and I've watched quite a few Ligue 2 matches, in person and on TV). Ligue 2 is about equivalent in quality to MLS, although the style of play is quite different. There are quite a few decent players, though, as you've noted.

TFC's current squad would have a hard time in Lique 2, though.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

It all starts from having an owner...who has the love for the game.......thats why Seattle...has been sucessful.....thats why Vancouver..will be sucessful..thats why Montreal will be sucessful..thats why Portland will be sucessful....

MLSE will be the death of this team..because they have believed in one thing only since day one.....not hard to figure out!!!

[Macksam]

Goes to show how much you don't listen. There's a BIG difference between having a young team relative to the age in MLS then your roster consisting of 4 - 16 year old Canadians, 4 - 17 year old Canadians and 4 - 18 year old Canadians from the academy. That my friend is suicide.

Steve Zakuani is 22 and he's (I think) their youngest starter.

Try again.
You're sexy.:hump:

[Beach_Red]

Not really true (and I've watched quite a few Ligue 2 matches, in person and on TV). Ligue 2 is about equivalent in quality to MLS, although the style of play is quite different. There are quite a few decent players, though, as you've noted.

TFC's current squad would have a hard time in Lique 2, though.

TFC's current squad has a hard time in MLS :D.

[Hitcho]

Jimmy, the greatest lesson you could take -- anyone could take -- as a teenager debating this stuff on here with people who have spent a little more time in the world is to have HUMILITY.

IF people present you with logical reasons why something won't work -- or at least their view of the logic -- address their specific points. If you can't, just suck it up and say "oh, ok, I can see that." By turning to tangential, related points to bolster your own overall stance, you're providing what's known as a "strawman" argument.

It's not a fault to admit you're wrong and learn from it, because everyone is wrong sometimes. Without error, there'd be far less discovery in the world. With less discovery, we'd naturally make fewer accurate decisions, because rationalization is based on the best available evidence.

There's absolutely nothing in your response that presents a rational, logical reason why Hunter Freeman would want to come back here.

It's not about "living" in Norway. It's about competing in Europe, where clubs in bigger leagues see you regularly, where football is more revered, and where the pay is much higher.

So, no, there's no realistic reason, no rational reason, to think we could offer him 250K to come here (which is too damn expensive for a winger/fullback anyway in this league.)

We weren't talking about not being able to sign the big names. We were talking about not being able to sign the guy you suggested.

On the whole, though, I think we'd all agree it would be nice for the fans if we were taking New York's approach, even though the club might consequentially lose money for the duration.

PWNED!!!! :D:D:D


You think he wants to live in Norway? The dude's there for the money. Offer him 250k, bring him over and tell him, hey buddy, your European dream ain't happening, we all know you'll end up back in MLS on the wrong side of 30, and get less pay for it. How bout you come over now and make it a reality earlier on.

And that's hardly the greatest sales pitch in the world, is it Jimmy? Do you think that's how LAG landed Beckham? "Look Dave, you're washed up and out of the England squad, you know you're going to end up with the dregs eventually so why not come here and we'll make it easier for you to get to that stage earlier and hey, we'll pay you less than you could get elsewhere too!" :facepalm:

I also don't agree that there are no good players on free transfers. Angel, Beckham, Ljungberg, De Guzman (considered good before he got here at least!), Henry - none of them cost a penny in transfer fees and you're telling me there are no good players available on free transfers?! I respectfully disagree...