Renewal Email Oct 22

[Wagner]

It looks like they were listening.

And we are seeing some sort of correction action that we were looking for.

To be honest, I'm a little impressed that they whipped something together after a few townhalls.

Here's what they sent:



Dear Robert,

Thank you.
Over the past 10 days, we've solicited and received a lot of feedback from a broad spectrum of season seat holders and supporters. Through emails, conversations, on-line chats and a series of Town Hall meetings we've heard a great deal and it has been very informative.
The Town Hall sessions were passionate, vocal and candid. The meetings were crucial to helping us understand your concerns. Toronto FC fans are unique - you love your club, you feel a part of the club, but your club has let you down on and off-the-pitch. We've now digested your feedback with the goal of identifying actionable items.
Several key themes have emerged throughout our discussions. We've summarized these themes and our plan of action for 2011 and 2012.
1. "Don't price us out of the building. When will price increases stop?"
For returning season seat holders who renew by the deadline, we will honour their 2011 prices for the 2012 season. In other words, there will be no price increase for the 2012 season for renewing 2011 season ticketholders.
2. "Toronto FC is MY Club. I don't want any other teams or games in my season ticket package."
For 2012, Toronto FC's season ticket package will only include the MLS regular season games and two Nutrilite Canadian Championship games.
3. "These Town Halls are good. Will you continue the dialogue?"
The Toronto FC Town Hall sessions were valuable and enlightening. We hope the sessions have been valuable for you as well. We are committed to holding similar sessions at BMO Field two times in 2011.
4. "Transportation: GO Trains arrive too close to kick-off. Leaving Exhibition Place is a nightmare!"
We understand this frustration. We will continue to work with Metro Police, Toronto Transportation, TTC and GO Transit to improve getting to and from games. A new exit from Exhibition Place to Lakeshore Blvd. is nearly complete and will help with post game congestion.
5. "Team performance is not where it should be. What is the club's direction in the short and long-term?"
With change comes the opportunity to make important decisions about our future. We're working hard to assemble a management team that is second to none in Major League Soccer. We are looking for leadership that will establish the vision for this team and create a winning culture so that Toronto FC will consistently compete for a championship.

We are excited about the opportunity for a fresh start as we prepare to launch our fifth anniversary season in 2011. To welcome you back and thank you for showing the world how Toronto supports this game like nobody else in North America, all season seat holders who renew their seats by Monday, October 25 will be attending our 2011 Home Opener on us - we're picking up the tab for your ticket for that game. More details about this will come in a separate email after renewals are complete.
You have given us a lot to consider and in turn we hope our efforts demonstrate that we value your support and passion. We are extending our renewal deadline to 5 p.m. on Monday, October 25, 2010 to give you additional time over the weekend to think about our action plan and make your decision.
If you believe in this club and this dialogue, then we'll look forward to seeing you back next year. And before that, we look forward to celebrating the best in North American soccer at the MLS Cup game at BMO Field on November 21.
Thank you again.
Sincerely,
http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/1/Tom+Anselmi+sig.JPG http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/1/Paul+Signature.JPG http://image.mlsefanmail.com/lib/fed316717160047c/m/1/Earl+Signature.JPG

[Nuvinho]

1. "Don't price us out of the building. When will price increases stop?"
For returning season seat holders who renew by the deadline, we will honour their 2011 prices for the 2012 season. In other words, there will be no price increase for the 2012 season for renewing 2011 season ticketholders.


That could mean, they will keep the prices the same, but less the MLS Cup..so in fact an actual increase....its all in the wording ;)

[scut farkus]

Interesting..


To welcome you back and thank you for showing the world how Toronto supports this game like nobody else in North America, all season seat holders who renew their seats by Monday, October 25 will be attending our 2011 Home Opener on us - we're picking up the tab for your ticket for that game.

[Wagner]

1. "Don't price us out of the building. When will price increases stop?"
For returning season seat holders who renew by the deadline, we will honour their 2011 prices for the 2012 season. In other words, there will be no price increase for the 2012 season for renewing 2011 season ticketholders.


That could mean, they will keep the prices the same, but less the MLS Cup..so in fact an actual increase....its all in the wording ;)

I'd wager that they know better than that.
During the TownHalls, someone said that...and the FO guys said..."it'll be a price per game" sort of freeze.

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

Not bad. Not great, mind you, but not bad, and certainly better than I was expecting. That seals it for me. I'll give them another shot.

[sidvan]

"To welcome you back and thank you for showing the world how Toronto supports this game like nobody else in North America, all season seat holders who renew their seats by Monday, October 25 will be attending our 2011 Home Opener on us - we're picking up the tab for your ticket for that game. More details about this will come in a separate email after renewals are complete."

Interesting - rebate back on the invoice?

Still not renewing 4 of 6 seats.

[Globetrotter]

They're giving us the opener for free. Good for them. That means a lot (not being sarcastic either).

^this free game will offset any "per game" ticket increase for SSH's.

[Nodoubtguy]

1. "Don't price us out of the building. When will price increases stop?"
For returning season seat holders who renew by the deadline, we will honour their 2011 prices for the 2012 season. In other words, there will be no price increase for the 2012 season for renewing 2011 season ticketholders.


That could mean, they will keep the prices the same, but less the MLS Cup..so in fact an actual increase....its all in the wording ;)


I'd wager that they know better than that.
During the TownHalls, someone said that...and the FO guys said..."it'll be a price per game" sort of freeze.

I asked them that.....Paul said price per game freeze.

[JonO]

Wow - i need to digest this, but it seems like they really listened (to all us non-renewers ;) ). This may actually change my mind.

[mastermixer]

Wow, I already renewed for 2011 so if they are giving the home opener for free that saves me almost another $150 bucks for two in Sec 108.
Got to give them credit there...

[DangerRed]

As a very ardent critic of MLSE and their approach up until now to this whole debacle, I have to say that this is impressive stuff.

The management is yet to be chosen and the team is yet to be blown up and rebuilt, but this is a good step towards addressing some of the anger.

[H Bomb]

some positives here. especially with a price freeze, which they seemed to be against to begin with. Overall could be worse. Early days yet, but I wont bitch for a next few hours.

[JonO]

Only problem is that I am now throughly confused as to what my renewal price will be and what it includes :lol:

[Parkdale]

WOW......




just WOW (in a good way).

looks like they really did learn something when they asked us how they felt.

[RedsYNWA]

Good News...about time
I'm impressed

[bdiddy]

Quite Impressed

Happy to hear this

[Darlofletch]

credit where it's due, they're trying, and this is certainly more than i would have thought they'd do, or be able to get approved by the board, so good on them. and good on everyone who put pressure on them to get this.

the main issue for me was always the gm/coach team side of things, so hopefully they put as much or more effort into that.

[Razor]

Not bad. Not great, mind you, but not bad, and certainly better than I was expecting. That seals it for me. I'll give them another shot.


Same here.

I will give them one more year to make things right.

Kudos to those that kept up the pressure on MLSE.

[Parkdale]

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/07/03/gal_dtrt_title.jpg


very, very impressed.

[GBV]

Good on everyone who did something to make this happen.

[Cowboy905]

hate to be a debbie downer here, but with them announcing a price freeze for '12, i'm not expecting them to invest a whole lot more into the team either.

either way, my funds i've allocated to TFC will now be used towards a Blue Jays Flex Pack. they are looking promising.

[Wull]

Well done to everyone who helped toward this and to the FO for doing it!

[Detroit_TFC]

Since so much of the team management/roster changes are understandibly in the (near) future, really the only thing the FO could do immediately is adjust prices. I see these price changes for 2012 and the comp'ed first game in 2011 to be significant price concessions on their part.

[Phil]

some positives here. especially with a price freeze, which they seemed to be against to begin with. Overall could be worse. Early days yet, but I wont bitch for a next few hours.

I will hold you to that ;)

[werewolf]

Not bad. Not great, mind you, but not bad, and certainly better than I was expecting. That seals it for me. I'll give them another shot.

Agreed.

I haven't forgot about the last IV seasons, but its a step in the right direction. About as good as we could have hoped for.

[flatpicker]

Price freeze and refund on the home opener!
This is great news!

It really seems they have learned a thing or two in recent weeks.
If they maintain this kind of commitment to fans past the 2011 season, then things are looking up.

I renewed yesterday, and now I am extra happy that I did.

[Suds]

Putting this into context of who this is coming from, MLSE, this is quite amazing.

Announcing a price freeze for next year for renewing SSH's is a great step.

Removing additional games from the base package is a greats step. The allows people who are on tighter budgets afford their MLS games and those that can afford the additional games to buy those options in addition to their package.

And giving next year's opener at no cost to renewing SSH's is a huge step in thanking TFC fans for their loyalty.



As Parky said .. Just wow. Not what I had been expecting but I have to say I am pleased with the steps they have taken.

[Sparta]

Well done to everyone who helped toward this and to the FO for doing it!


hey were u at the meeting last night

[Hustle]

We can effect change. I am glad I held out until the last minute and will renew my three seats due ONLY to the concessions that they made today.

[Pachuco]

HOLY SHIT! I can't believe I'm saying this but I am extremely pleased with the outcome of those town hall meetings and their response to them. This seals the deal for me, I'm renewing.

[Suds]

HOLY SHIT! I can't believe I'm saying this but I am extremely pleased with the outcome of those town hall meetings and their response to them. This seals the deal for me, I'm renewing.


Hell just froze over! :D

[Super]

I have to say that I'm very happy by the moves made by management. They really did listen. We have to give them credit for that - I didn't expect this much. I already renewed anyway, but I hope that others will follow suit and renew - and give this team another shot. This could be a fresh beginning, so let's enjoy it and hope for the best.

[Wagner]

Putting this into context of who this is coming from, MLSE, this is quite amazing.

Announcing a price freeze for next year for renewing SSH's is a great step.

Removing additional games from the base package is a greats step. The allows people who are on tighter budgets afford their MLS games and those that can afford the additional games to buy those options in addition to their package.

And giving next year's opener at no cost to renewing SSH's is a huge step in thanking TFC fans for their loyalty.



As Parky said .. Just wow. Not what I had been expecting but I have to say I am pleased with the steps they have taken.

I keep thinking about that.
What did Mr. Paul have to do to get them to sign off on that???

[Parkdale]

HOLY SHIT! I can't believe I'm saying this but I am extremely pleased with the outcome of those town hall meetings and their response to them. This seals the deal for me, I'm renewing.


I'm suspecting it's not just the townhalls that pushed them into making this call. There was lots of pressure on many fronts.

[Globetrotter]

To add to my earlier post though... the Leafs had a price freeze a couple seasons ago, only to have an larger price increase the year after that (that would have been more than equivalent than just raising the price each season).

By doing what they've done, they haven't lowered prices, so they keep this "high" price level secure for the future.

but... they did do something.

[Wull]

hey were u at the meeting last night

No, I've not had a night where I could get done work in time save for Tuesday

[Pachuco]

I'm suspecting it's not just the townhalls that pushed them into making this call. There was lots of pressure on many fronts.

But I feel like they didn't really understand the issues we had until the town hall meetings. So thanks to those that showed up and expressed my exact concerns.

[flatpicker]

To add to my earlier post though... the Leafs had a price freeze a couple seasons ago, only to have an larger price increase the year after that (that would have been more than equivalent than just raising the price each season).

By doing what they've done, they haven't lowered prices, so they keep this "high" price level secure for the future.

but... they did do something.


MLS Cup aside, haven't they actually lowered prices when you factor in the home opener refund?

As for having a huge price hike in 2012, we will have to wait and see.
But I am hoping MLSE knows better now.

[alex andrew]

We're working hard to assemble a management team that is second to none in Major League Soccer. We are looking for leadership that will establish the vision for this team and create a winning culture so that Toronto FC will consistently compete for a championship.



shake hands !

[Pachuco]

To add to my earlier post though... the Leafs had a price freeze a couple seasons ago, only to have an larger price increase the year after that (that would have been more than equivalent than just raising the price each season).

By doing what they've done, they haven't lowered prices, so they keep this "high" price level secure for the future.

but... they did do something.

Hey look, that's all fine and dandy. Right now, I committed to TFC for two years. If MLSE goes and hikes the prices to make up for the price freeze next year then I still have the option to not renew and tell them to take a hike. For now, I am a loyal customer though and I have some renewed confidence in the organization, atleast the TFC one. The Leaf's are an entirely different story.

[P-NUTZ]

well, i cant get back the last four years of my life, but i kinda got what i wanted out of all this moving forward with this organization.

Hope it produces a winner for us sooner than later.

[Nodoubtguy]

MLS Cup aside, haven't they actually lowered prices when you factor in the home opener refund?

As for having a huge price hike in 2012, we will have to wait and see.
But I am hoping MLSE knows better now.

not sure if lowered, but its gotta be close.....

[Globetrotter]

MLS Cup aside, haven't they actually lowered prices when you factor in the home opener refund?

As for having a huge price hike in 2012, we will have to wait and see.
But I am hoping MLSE knows better now.

They didn't lower ticket prices... they are just paying for that one. The price on the tickets throughout the year don't change. So when prices do go up in 2012... they'll be going off our current price, and not a lowered price. It's just as good a deal for them.

[Oldtimer]

We won????????????????????????????

Just wow.

[lips]

WOW I can't believe it I'm kind of happy

[Red Rat]

Hell just froze over! :D

not yet starting to cool down down there but not frozen until a ML$E owned team wins something

[jabbronies]

2. "Toronto FC is MY Club. I don't want any other teams or games in my season ticket package."
For 2012, Toronto FC's season ticket package will only include the MLS regular season games and two Nutrilite Canadian Championship games.



Can someone explain this to me...isn't this tournament an 8 game dealio with 4 games being at home??

[James17930]

MLS Cup aside, haven't they actually lowered prices when you factor in the home opener refund?

As for having a huge price hike in 2012, we will have to wait and see.
But I am hoping MLSE knows better now.

But that is sort of what they're doing.

By doing it this way, they're not rolling back the per-game hike from 2010 to 2011 which, to me, is the biggest problem in the first place.

Sure, by giving the 2011 home opener for free, everyone saves next year, but then what happens is it solidifies that new per-game price as the new minimum. So even if they don't 'raise' the price in 2012, they're still making what they want to be because it's still a per-game increase from now.

And then they can raise it again in 2013 and say 'see, look, we froze the price before,' but really they didn't.

They are 100% fully committed to that per-game increase, and they're doing everything they can to keep it.

I almost wish they would just come out and say 'this increase is directly related to paying for the new training ground,' or something like that. If they did that, I'm sure most people would be totally aboard with it. But the way they're doing it, it just looks like they're trying to line the MLSE board's pockets.

[Oldtimer]

They didn't lower ticket prices... they are just paying for that one. The price on the tickets throughout the year don't change. So when prices do go up in 2012... they'll be going off our current price, and not a lowered price. It's just as good a deal for them.

I think they've learned their lesson. They'll be careful with what they do. We're not stupid.

Anyways, ML$E giving up money? Unbelievable!!!!!

[scooter]

Hell just froze over! :D

what ??? the leafs won the cup

[flatpicker]

They didn't lower ticket prices... they are just paying for that one. The price on the tickets throughout the year don't change. So when prices do go up in 2012... they'll be going off our current price, and not a lowered price. It's just as good a deal for them.

I realize that,
But I don't really care what the number on the ticket says,
What matters is how much I am billed for the season.
And that home opener refund pretty much eliminates any concerns about the 2011 price hike.

As for 2012... I said earlier that we will have to wait and see,
And trust the MLSE knows the importance of doing right by us.

[Globetrotter]

They are 100% fully committed to that per-game increase, and they're doing everything they can to keep it.

I almost wish they would just come out and say 'this increase is directly related to paying for the new training ground,' or something like that. If they did that, I'm sure most people would be totally aboard with it. But the way they're doing it, it just looks like they're trying to line the MLSE board's pockets.

I wish they'd just come public and say "we try to make money, and we are always going to raise prices, if not every other year, and that's the way we work".

[JonO]

So when prices do go up in 2012...
Prices aren't going up in 2012. 2013 will be the year to watch. But that gives me two more years

[kaos197O]

We won????????????????????????????

Just wow.

Ummmmmm, NO! There are still outstanding issues but they are listening. Massive progress. Very pleased. I have not received this e-mail yet though.....

[Red Rat]

Can someone explain this to me...isn't this tournament an 8 game dealio with 4 games being at home??
nop this is home and away with Montreal, and Vancouver so just two

[flatpicker]

I'm a little disappointed by some of the cynicism here.
Look, we won a battle here, let's not get upset about what might happen two years from now.
Let's deal with things as they come.

[Heathen]

Credit where credits due, I wasn't expecting this.

[Oldtimer]

Ummmmmm, NO! There are still outstanding issues but they are listening. Massive progress. Very pleased. I have not received this e-mail yet though.....

There is still the issue about security... and the one about scalpers.

But still, I'm very pleased.

[TFC_Junky]

Cheers to Boris and company for working with the FO to organize the town halls! Looks like they listened and took the complaints/concerns seriously!

[Oldtimer]

nop this is home and away with Montreal, and Vancouver so just two

Edmonton may be in the tourney.

[Pigfynn]

No kidding Flatpicker,

Let's take some satisfaction here boys. Progress has been made.

[DaBandit]

Prices aren't going up in 2012. 2013 will be the year to watch. But that gives me two more years

They will go up considering that 2011's season opener will be free.. They wont give you the 2012 season opener free, thus you'll have to pay for it, and there is your hidden price increase for 2012..

[H Bomb]

what comping the first game does is appease a lot of frustration about the mls cup game, and its price. Sure itll a credit, but that credit will help pay for the CCL games i would have bought anyway. The only thing that doesnt make me happy, and again Im not mad about this, they've done some good things today and deseved to be thanked (thanks MLSE...oh god that hurt;) ) but They said that they're illiminating any non tfc games to counteract the MLS cup...meaning they didnt quite listen to why we were mad about that...the forced payment to make up for an inability to sell the game. However, they've done things that will hurt them, they've sacrificed money....that's a first, and for it i thank them.

[James17930]

I'm a little disappointed by some of the cynicism here.
Look, we won a battle here, let's not get upset about what might happen two years from now.
Let's deal with things as they come.

Not trying to be cynical just for the sake of it, but I do think it's relevant to point out that what I think is most people's biggest issue -- the per-game increase -- did not get addressed, and that they're using the free home-opener thing as a smoke-screen for it.

[DaBandit]

what comping the first game does is appease a lot of frustration about the mls cup game, and its price. Sure itll a credit, but that credit will help pay for the CCL games i would have bought anyway. The only thing that doesnt make me happy, and again Im not mad about this, they've done SOME good things today and deseved to be thanked (thanks MLSE...oh god that hurt;) ) but They said that they're illiminating any non tfc games to counteract the MLS...meaning they didnt quite listen to why we were mad about that...the forced payment to make up for an inability to sell the game. However, they've done things that will hurt them, they've sacrificed money....that's a first, and for it i thank them.

^^ +1

[reggie]

this goes to show you that we are a unique fanbase in this city,no other fanbase would do what we did,credit to us and credit to mlse for the changes.
now just hire the right fucking guy to run the club and take down the picture of mo in the hallway.

[Stryker]

Wow. Good for you guys. Im not a seat holder but Im really happy for you all. They tried to push some serious BS on you guys and you refused to take it lying down. You made your voices heard and showed the rest of league that as passionate as you are about the team, your nobodys fools and will stand up to the front office. Awesome.
I sincerely tip my hat to you all.

[Red Rat]

Wasn't the deadline to renew today and now they are extending it again to Monday?

This letter was their last hope to get people renewing, something tells me that this may be a stronger reason why they released this letter today.

don't trust the devil people, he will get you every time

[kaos197O]

There is still the issue about security... and the one about scalpers.

But still, I'm very pleased.

I agree. Massive progress in a very short time. Obviously we presented our cases, collectively, in a very well informed and professional level for the most part and thus the very positive results. I am 100% confident that thing will further improve as we continue this process.

Let's all be respectful here in that this has nothing to do with winning or losing and has everything to do with establishing a better relationship, a respectful relationship, with the club and it's owners.

Props to all who lobbied and props to MLSE for listening and acting. Great day for TFC fans.

[Nuvinho]

over/under on 50% renewal rate as of yesterday, that forced this email today?

[torontocelt]

I am quite happy with what has transpired, I just hope I get to relocate too, shouldn't be too hard as it is just one seat.

[H Bomb]

this email has been in the works for days now, as has the extension on the deadline. They knew t hey'd be doing this, so while previous non renewal DID force change (town halls) this is simply them giving us "need to know" info, and trying to come accross as sympathetic as possible.

[Suds]

I'm a little disappointed by some of the cynicism here.
Look, we won a battle here, let's not get upset about what might happen two years from now.
Let's deal with things as they come.

Agreed. I know it is hard not to be cynical when dealing with an MLSE owned entity. But this is good news and we should take it for what it is.

[Section 117]

So there have been conscessions made is everyone still going to bitch and moan?

[JamboAl]

Glad for all the SSHs out there and credit to MLSE.

I just hope that when the partial packages come out that none of us on the gold list will be held hostage for Marlies games again.

[Red Rat]

I think some of you are missing a point.
Garber was here to make sure that the MLS cup game was filled, this placed a great amount of pressure on MLSE and the only way out of this was to give away the ticket to SG, they are not stupid if is free they will come.

Giving you a free ticket for the home opener means that they have to raise prices to cover that on the following year.

New SG will be increased thus making lots of money from them and from the renewal rate I wouldn't doubt that this number will be high.

They win

[TFC_Toon]

Wow, can I take a breathe now, been watching the clock and my seasons slip away all day.

MLSE has done something here, they have extended the olive branch, they indicated they could not freeze prices this year but have committed to do so next season...good!

They indicated they could not take the MLS Cup Final out of the package but have given us the day out at the home opener next season...good!

For me the Champions League tickets were not enough, they needed to take the extra step and do the right thing, I believe they have attempted to do that here.

Credit where credit is due, they did the right thing, hats off to them and to the constant pressure all TFC supporters put them under while fighting the good fight.

Right then.........we need a team.

:scarf:

[Suds]

Wasn't the deadline to renew today and now they are extending it again to Monday?

This letter was their last hope to get people renewing, something tells me that this may be a stronger reason why they released this letter today.

don't trust the devil people, he will get you every time


Sure, it's part marketing. But many people will not see this letter right away. I think it's only fair TFC give time for this message to get out there and allow people some time to think about their decision.

If TFC put this letter out and kept the renewal deadline at the end of today then there would be people screaming bloody murder that they did not have time to read the announcement and respond.

[Red Rat]

over/under on 50% renewal rate as of yesterday, that forced this email today?

I would say that this is the case

this email has been in the works for days now, as has the extension on the deadline. They knew t hey'd be doing this, so while previous non renewal DID force change (town halls) this is simply them giving us "need to know" info, and trying to come accross as sympathetic as possible.

thus having the letter ready to be released on moments notice. Once again they have been planing this all along

[menefreghista]

over/under on 50% renewal rate as of yesterday, that forced this email today?

The renewals are surprisingly good.

This might have been done to make people less pissed off about the MLS Cup. They couldn't devalue the MLS Cup and make it free (or cheaper). So they made a regular season game free.

[Red Rat]

Sure, it's part marketing. But many people will not see this letter right away. I think it's only fair TFC give time for this message to get out there and allow people some time to think about their decision.

If TFC put this letter out and kept the renewal deadline at the end of today then there would be people screaming bloody murder that they did not have time to read the announcement and respond.

I think that this letter was written as their "Plan C" to extend the deadline due to slow renewals

[flatpicker]

I think that this letter was written as their "Plan C" to extend the deadline due to slow renewals


I don't care if it was Plan Z,
MLSE are a business, and having contingency plans is something I would expect from them.
All that matters to me right now is that pricing for next season good.
And the price freeze for 2012 means only a small increase over a two year span.
And if TFC are actually good during those two years, then I won't complain.
I'll worry about 2013 when the time comes.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This is why I was protesting on Tuesday. I wanted to hear from them. I wanted a gesture not simply to be heard.

I wasn't expecting this letter till after I renewed today.

I would like to quote every poster who said this type of action was "Never going to happen" but there were too many of you.

[Red Rat]

I don't care if it was Plan Z,
MLSE are a business, and having contingency plans is something I would expect from them.
All that matters to me right now is that pricing for next season good.
And the price freeze for 2012 means only a small increase over a two year span.
And if TFC are actually good during those two years, then I won't complain.
I'll worry about 2013 when the time comes.

2013 is just around the corner, you move out of the way or you will get hit.

Yes the savings may be there and coming from ML$E is better than nothing

[nascarguy]

guy if you look at it there really puting up the price for 2012here I'll show you:

2011 price for sec 111 $400.00 with tax and free home opener.

2012 price for sec 111 $449.00 with tax and no free home opener.

[dow117]

this email has been in the works for days now, as has the extension on the deadline. They knew t hey'd be doing this, so while previous non renewal DID force change (town halls) this is simply them giving us "need to know" info, and trying to come accross as sympathetic as possible.

Lets not be as cynical as the suits : This action is all down to the SG's and I applaud them for this. It represents a real awareness by the FO that this sport is not just another venue for a business deal but one of grassroots passion by the ordinary joe.
They really are not giving back much but they do not have much practice in expressing remorse to any fans. So, small steps but a large change in how we are viewed now; like being taken into consideration rather than taken for granted ( like Leaf fans ).
I have been watching this game over 50 years and TFC since day 1; This grudging awareness by corporate MLSE is a landmark in NA; so lets not minimize the impact that this will have in the way that they move forward.
Lets get behind the real team on the field and keep our eye on the ball..

[flatpicker]

2013 is just around the corner, you move out of the way or you will get hit.

Yes the savings may be there and coming from ML$E is better than nothing


Wait... are you threatening to hit me??!! :eek::confused:
;)

[H Bomb]

I don't care if it was Plan Z,
MLSE are a business, and having contingency plans is something I would expect from them.
All that matters to me right now is that pricing for next season good.
And the price freeze for 2012 means only a small increase over a two year span.
And if TFC are actually good during those two years, then I won't complain.
I'll worry about 2013 when the time comes.


actually since the MLS cup final is in this years package, even with an extra game our invoices for next year are basically the same as they are this year, maybe a touch cheaper (before the comp of course)

[flatpicker]

guy if you look at it there really puting up the price for 2012here I'll show you:

2011 price for sec 111 $400.00 with tax and free home opener.

2012 price for sec 111 $449.00 with tax and no free home opener.

I think we all realize that 2012 will cost more than 2011.
But spread that increase out over the next to seasons, and the increase seems more manageable.

[H Bomb]

Lets not be as cynical as the suits : This action is all down to the SG's and I applaud them for this. ..


not at all true though man. They deserve credit for what they did, but this isnt a SG venture, its a STH venture, and it's all the people who made themselves heard, and who held off renewals who did this.

[Detroit_TFC]

So there have been conscessions made is everyone still going to bitch and moan?

Of course. It is the very essence of being a football fanatic.

[flatpicker]

actually since the MLS cup final is in this years package, even with an extra game our invoices for next year are basically the same as they are this year, maybe a touch cheaper (before the comp of course)


I think we are saying the same thing, but I obviously wasn't clear.
I'm saying that if you look at 2012 prices, and imagine that that increase was over a two year span, then it's not so terrible.
I know what I am trying to say... just not sure I am finding the right words to express it.

[Pookie]

An important item to explore for future use is what is driving this decision ? (and it is a good gesture on their part)

1. Was it that they were genuinely interested iand influenced by the feedback that came from the townhalls, radio calls in or otherwise? (not to be negative, but I'm going to bet no. They get negative press with their other sports "properties" all the time and they don't run off and hold a series of town halls)

2. Was the collective movement not to renew tickets based on their current high price/game model significant enough to generate the executives to act?

3. Was the appearance of Garber this week, the potential MLS Cup embarrassment and this recent action all related? Did the single entity owner step in and exert executive to executive influence on the situation?


---

My money is on #2 and #3 with more weight being given towards the influence of Garber on the situation.

Not to be negative, but I'm going to bet #1 had more to do with appearance then substance. They get negative press with their other sports "properties" all the time and they don't run off and hold a series of town halls.

Appreciate the end result but knowing how we got here is important for future discussions.

Let's also recognize that even with a price freeze and a free game, we have the most expensive ticket in all of MLS in the majority of the stadium and we "get" the lowest value for that price in the league. As an example, LA, who have similar attendance and expenses, gives out 5 free bonus games, food and parking with their tickets.

Again, thanks for the action MLSE. But you don't have a blank cheque to run wild. There is still an inbalance that you need to work to correct.

[Detroit_TFC]

First the ridiculous Rooney developments and now the big changes in the STs. No work gets done today.

[Jeffro]

This is why I was protesting on Tuesday. I wanted to hear from them. I wanted a gesture not simply to be heard.

I wasn't expecting this letter till after I renewed today.

I would like to quote every poster who said this type of action was "Never going to happen" but there were to many of you.

Haha yeah, and all those who said we were wasting our time and energy.... I guess we should say..... You're welcome. lol

[H Bomb]

I think we are saying the same thing, but I obviously wasn't clear.
I'm saying that if you look at 2012 prices, and imagine that that increase was over a two year span, then it's not so terrible.
I know what I am trying to say... just not sure I am finding the right words to express it.


well take the comp first game out of the equation....its basically a way to get us back to the CCL through a credit....so

this years invoice includes MLS cup for what $60?

next years has that amount removed, and one additional game or 2 maybe, depends...

this means that my 2011 invoice of $800 and change, should be $800 and change for 2012

[Wull]

An important item to explore for future use is what is driving this decision ? (and it is a good gesture on their part)

1. Was it that they were genuinely interested iand influenced by the feedback that came from the townhalls, radio calls in or otherwise? (not to be negative, but I'm going to bet no. They get negative press with their other sports "properties" all the time and they don't run off and hold a series of town halls)

2. Was the collective movement not to renew tickets based on their current high price/game model significant enough to generate the executives to act?

3. Was the appearance of Garber this week, the potential MLS Cup embarrassment and this recent action all related? Did the single entity owner step in and exert executive to executive influence on the situation?


---

My money is on #2 and #3 with more weight being given towards the influence of Garber on the situation.

Not to be negative, but I'm going to bet #1 had more to do with appearance then substance. They get negative press with their other sports "properties" all the time and they don't run off and hold a series of town halls.

Appreciate the end result but knowing how we got here is important for future discussions.

Let's also recognize that even with a price freeze and a free game, we have the most expensive ticket in all of MLS in the majority of the stadium and we "get" the lowest value for that price in the league. As an example, LA, who have similar attendance and expenses, gives out 5 free bonus games, food and parking with their tickets.

Again, thanks for the action MLSE. But you don't have a blank cheque to run wild. There is still an inbalance that you need to work to correct.


I think the lack of atmosphere on Saturday was also a factor (not as big as 2 and 3 obviously)

[flatpicker]

well take the comp first game out of the equation....its basically a way to get us back to the CCL through a credit....so
this years invoice includes MLS cup for what $60?
next years has that amount removed, and one additional game or 2 maybe, depends...
this means that my 2011 invoice of $800 and change, should be $800 and change for 2012

hahaha... ok... I don't want to talk about math anymore.
What it boils down to is I am happy about the cost of being a TFC fan for the next two years.

[Beach_Red]

An important item to explore for future use is what is driving this decision ? (and it is a good gesture on their part)

1. Was it that they were genuinely interested iand influenced by the feedback that came from the townhalls, radio calls in or otherwise? (not to be negative, but I'm going to bet no. They get negative press with their other sports "properties" all the time and they don't run off and hold a series of town halls)




Yes. Look, people are happy, so that's good. But let's face it, this sets a precedent that MLSE does not want to see happen with their other teams. They didn't freeze prices or reduce prices or whatever it is they've actually done here bcause people complained. They did it because people weren't buying the product.

The demand had lowered in the supply and demand. When the demand increases so will the prices, that's fine, that's business and we all know it.

It would be intreresting to see where the renewals are at.

[Stryker]

I don't think the demand will be high for quite some time. The "place to be" factor has worn off.
Between the people not renewing, and the number of people in the top half of MLSE's (inflated) waiting list not taking their shot at tickets, I wouldn't be surprised if the waiting list dwindled to a few thousand. Not that they'll tell us that. The proof will be when we see very modest increases over the next few years.

[nfitz]

MLS Cup aside, haven't they actually lowered prices when you factor in the home opener refund?It depends on the price level.

In yellow, it was $17 in 2010, and was to be $19 in 2011. If you factor out MLS Cup, the price for 2011 becomes exactly $18.

But in Red, where it was $67 in 2010 and was to be $68 in 2011, the renewal price for 2011 becomes $64.42.

[Hitcho]

Price freeze and refund on the home opener!
This is great news!

It really seems they have learned a thing or two in recent weeks.
If they maintain this kind of commitment to fans past the 2011 season, then things are looking up.

I renewed yesterday, and now I am extra happy that I did.

QFT, word for word, I renewed yesterday as well and am now glad I did.


I'm suspecting it's not just the townhalls that pushed them into making this call. There was lots of pressure on many fronts.

Agreed - dropping attendances, the green/silence/banners campaign, town halls and let's not forget the media pressure - I have had people at work who know NOTHING about football at all e-mailing me articles from all over, including the NY Times, about the mess at TFC and I am convinced that has put a lot of pressure on ML$E to react.


I'm a little disappointed by some of the cynicism here.
Look, we won a battle here, let's not get upset about what might happen two years from now.
Let's deal with things as they come.

Exactly - we won a battle, but not the war. Everyone whinging about 2013 get a grip. You said they would do nothing for 2011 and 2012 but you were wrong, they just have. It's possible you could be wrong about 2013 as well. Money talks, and ML$E now know that if they don't listen then they stand to lose money from fans walking away in droves. They may only want to keep us to get more money from us, but they now know that they have to keep us on our terms, not just theirs. That won't change for 2013. We have set a precedent here that ML$E can never escape from. Ever.


There is still the issue about security... and the one about scalpers.

But still, I'm very pleased.

Security only affects a very small part of the stadium, they would not put that in an e-mail to the entire SSH base. Scalpers will never go away, primarily because in a pure sense it includes TicketMaster and it's part of the TO culture now. Lots of non-SSH probably like the scalpers. I don't think we'll ever win that battle, which means a SG controlled zone becomes even more important to push for in the longer term.


They will go up considering that 2011's season opener will be free.. They wont give you the 2012 season opener free, thus you'll have to pay for it, and there is your hidden price increase for 2012..

So you're taking a free gift and painting it as a hidden price increase? Come on dude, get real. What did you expect, a refund of your entire four years worth of season ticket? They just announced a price freeze, a commitment to not including spurious games in the package going forward and a free game. Take it and move on. And see my comments above re 2013. The action ML$E has taken today sets a precedent that they will have to keep in mind for 2013 and beyond.


Wasn't the deadline to renew today and now they are extending it again to Monday?

This letter was their last hope to get people renewing, something tells me that this may be a stronger reason why they released this letter today.

don't trust the devil people, he will get you every time

My guess is they probably planned this over the last couple of weeks but are releasing it today in an effort to get the renewals as high as possible. Fair enough in the circumstances.




Like Flats said, we won a battle. The war isn't over, but at least we have a cease fire for the next couple of years and who knows, if ML$E realise that treating the loyal fan base well actually means that they make more money in the long run, then at some point down the road peace may even make out! :stogey:

Kudos to ML$E. They listened AND they acted. One small step for TFC season seat holders, one giant leap for those oppressed by ML$E...

[Sweeper]

Hat's off to those that showed up to these meetings and represented. Even though I'm on the gold list and might not get tickets now, there has been a bit of a precedent set in terms of protest and ownership communications with supporters. If the tickets do come up, having a price freeze for 2012 reinforces my decision to invest.

Props

[Beach_Red]

I don't think the demand will be high for quite some time. The "place to be" factor has worn off and I wouldn't be surprised if between people not renewing, and the number of people in the top half of MLSE's (inflated) waiting list not taking their shot at tickets, the waiting list could dwindle to a few thousand. Not that they'll tell us at that. The proof will be when we see very modest increases over the next few years.


Yes, and when talk of stadium expanion stops and so on. The "place to be" factor is very high in Toronto and you're right, that's gone. Of course, it could come back, but this time it may be more of a slow build.

Maybe the best thing to come out of this will be them realizing that the supporters' groups are important. As Ensco pointed out, most teams in other North American sports had their versions of supporters groups, "Bleacher creatures" and the like and in the stadium expansion years in the 80's and 90's when corporate boxes became the big thing most of those groups were priced out of their buildings - and chances are it would have happened here if the demand had remained strong.

Hey, maybe the best thing that could have happened for supporters is a crappy team for a few years ;).

[Hitcho]

hahaha... ok... I don't want to talk about math anymore.
What it boils down to is I am happy about the cost of being a TFC fan for the next two years.

Well I wouldn't go that far. At a general level we still pay more than Man Utd fans.

but I am definitely happy that we got ML$E's attention and drove the message home forcefully enough to effect some quick action on their part.

Most importantly, we proved that we matter. Not just the SG's, but ALL fans of TFC. The renewal rate probably drove this whole thing, but like Parkdale said above, lots of pressure from lots of fronts and that coupled with dwindling renewals has put a chain on ML$E, because they have now admitted quite frankly that they need to listen to us, and with actions not just words. They are now saddled with that, and they know that we will make them blink first if things get out of control again.

[Stryker]

Hey, maybe the best thing that could have happened for supporters is a crappy team for a few years ;).
I think theres alot of truth in that. At the very least it's allowed for the SG's to create a strong footprint within both the stadium and the front office. That's something that will continue to grow so long as TFC isn't the hot ticket. They'll need us.

[Jack]

This is a very nice step in the right direction, though I think it has more to do with the subpar renewal rates than anything else.

If renewals were high and there were still angry supporters, do you guys really think they would have caved on this? I don't.

Anyway, whatever the motivation, the outcome is positive. I am pleased we were able to get this far.

But it's not over, it's just beginning. Our vigilance with these clowns should not be relaxed in the slightest.

They should not have raised ticket prices in the first place, so I am not going to congratulate them now for "freezing" prices. I am not going to congratulate them for comping us a game when they rammed the MLS Cup up our collective behind. My seat will still remain empty and unused for that game.

They are simply fixing mistakes they should not have made in the first place (and "fixing" is half-assed). So, I am glad they are doing what they are doing, but they put themselves in this position to begin with. We should not have needed protests and town halls for this.

Still, onward and upward.

[Boris]

This is a very nice step in the right direction, though I think it has more to do with the subpar renewal rates than anything else.

If renewals were high and there were still angry supporters, do you guys really think they would have caved on this? I don't.

Anyway, whatever the motivation, the outcome is positive. I am pleased we were able to get this far.

But it's not over, it's just beginning. Our vigilance with these clowns should not be relaxed in the slightest.

They should not have raised ticket prices in the first place, so I am not going to congratulate them now for "freezing" prices. I am not going to congratulate them for comping us a game when they rammed the MLS Cup up our collective behind. My seat will still remain empty and unused for that game.

They are simply fixing mistakes they should not have made in the first place (and "fixing" is half-assed). So, I am glad they are doing what they are doing, but they put themselves in this position to begin with. We should not have needed protests and town halls for this.

Still, onward and upward.

funny we said the same thing in different areas.

We have to act as a watchdog to call them on their BS and with Town Halls quite possibly being a regular thing, members will have that open forum to do so.

[craigtfc]

we are still paying too much compared to all of the rest of the mls team

[jvanpeebles]

This seems to be a positive step in the right direction. Though not perfect I see it as a positive. There is however another side of things. I have been waiting for a long time to get seasons tickets. In the mean time I have had to purchase ridiculous packages for games or go to scalpers. For those of us that have shown our support even though we could not get season tickets we have the right to pay a higher price then everybody else. All these things they are giving the renewing season tickets holders are great but they will do so on the backs of those of us who will buy new season tickets.
I am still a RPB, am still a TFC supporter but at the end of the day TFC has found a way yet again to get more money out of me because they have held back the number of season tickets being sold. Had they released more tickets a few years ago I could be one of the people renewing at a lower price. Now will have to consider not getting them if offered.

[Oldtimer]

ML$E was facing pressure on 3 fronts:

1) SSHs who were not renewing
2) Supporters groups up in arms, media on their side
3) Garber putting pressure on ML$E to fix things before the MLS Cup

Something had to give.

[Phil]

I am pretty happy with this.

We complained about the issues, we acted - and all groups did in their own way and TFC listened.

Does it benifit TFC by the timing and renewal deadline? Of course but that is the point isn't it.

For me, a big part of my TFC experience is about community and we all saw that under threat and reacted. This course of action was outlined and requested at the town hall we had and the gesture on the home opener is welcome too.

Makes for a nice Friday afternoon :D

[DaBandit]

So you're taking a free gift and painting it as a hidden price increase? Come on dude, get real. What did you expect, a refund of your entire four years worth of season ticket? They just announced a price freeze, a commitment to not including spurious games in the package going forward and a free game. Take it and move on. And see my comments above re 2013. The action ML$E has taken today sets a precedent that they will have to keep in mind for 2013 and beyond.



What, I never said I expected a credit for 4 years worth of season tickets.. What I want is a roll back in pricing.. giving me a freebie is nice and all but the fact of the matter is that eveyones tickets have gone up what 30%-50% in four years of NON winning football!!! Other then a couple of percentage points for inflation they should NEVER have raised the price for the product that takes the field (god love the boys for trying though :D).. What team goes through 5 coaches in 4 years? What type of management sits by and lets MO constantly screw up things, especially after NY last year?? How does a team go through 80 players in 4 years?? All I was pointing out, as another poster posted is dont get fooled into believing there will be no price increase in 2012, there will be, but it will be hidden.. Just like last years supposed $1 per game increase was actually a lot more because they removed a game from the package.. Sure they gave in a bit today, and thats great, it's a start, but thats only after 4 years of gouging! We may have won the battle, but only because they let us, as they are still so far ahead in the war..

cheers,

[Stencils]

Makes for a nice Friday afternoon :D


Makes for a soul (and pocketbook) searching weekend for me. I was resolved not to renew and now there's some self-doubt.

[mastermixer]

this goes to show you that we are a unique fanbase in this city,no other fanbase would do what we did,credit to us and credit to mlse for the changes.
now just hire the right fucking guy to run the club and take down the picture of mo in the hallway.

Agreed, but this is also the only team in the city that attracts casual fans to the game because of what supporters groups bring. SG's need to be satisfied to keep the atmosphere going and MLSE realize that.
Do you think MLSE cares what type of fan is going to the leaf games or raptor games? They just want those seats filled. With TFC they rely on RPB and U-Sec and NEE to bring the atmosphere. Without them you would have crickets.

[Boondaddy]

ML$E was facing pressure on 3 fronts:

1) SSHs who were not renewing
2) Supporters groups up in arms, media on their side
3) Garber putting pressure on ML$E to fix things before the MLS Cup

Something had to give.

#3 for sure.

A big reason why TO won the Cup Final bid was because of the atmosphere and the "show" that we put on week after week. Without us going (including all SGs here), there is none of that....or, instead, likely face a huge public protest at the super bowl of soccer.

ML$E were never going to risk that happening....not after the bragging and gloating over the success here.

[Pachuco]

So there have been conscessions made is everyone still going to bitch and moan?

You are really missing the point on this one. If people don't bitch and moan nothig happens. You can say it was because of the low renewal rate, but if no one gives them their feedback as to why they are renewing how in the hell are they supposed to fix anything? There is absolutely nothing wrong with all the bitching and moaning that went on, in fact, I can only credit the bitchers and the moaners for what's happened. If every customer was like yourself we'd be paying double what we pay now.

[Torontotonto]

[quote=Wagner;1155858]It looks like they were listening.

For 2012, Toronto FC's season ticket package will only include the MLS regular season games and two Nutrilite Canadian Championship games.

[Section 117]

Pachuco it was said sarcasticaly so calm down a bit... because no matter what happend people will still moan and bitch that was my point

About prices at the end of the day sitting in the supporters seats there is value as what can you do for $20 in this city???

My problem is the product on the field and that's it nothing more nothing else. If the product was better then I have no issue with the increase.

[gtaguy]

in a way i didn't expect to win this war but im glad concessiones were made on thier part.
That is a total 360 which im impressed and will accept as a gesture of reaching out to us, wanting to continue our relationship with them and the club. which makes me glad becuase i didn't want to leave in the first place.
I would like to see a new era of communications with TFC supporters because that has not been here since mojo took control of this club.

Were not fans, We are part of this club, its roots, and aslong as the owner plays nice we will always be here.
There are many things more MLSE needs to do to right the ship but i think today they took a step forward.

For me your terms are accepted and IM IN. just renewed .
http://wydglobal.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/im-watching-you.jpg

[DaBandit]

^^ MLS Cup is still in 2011 package..

[Globetrotter]

I guess this means that hot dogs will now cost $14, and beers $27? not that i ever pay for anything other than the ticket to get in anyways.

[DichioTFC]

The price is reasonable for me, the effort the FO put in recently to listen really shows.

I'll be picking up two STs

[Jeffro]

I just renewed a single ticket, and I feel pretty good about it.

[gtaguy]

The price is reasonable for me, the effort the FO put in recently to listen really shows.

I'll be picking up two STs

good to hear that dichio.
Im seeing the effort in thier part aswell.
Since mojo has left town this clubs communication lines have
opened up and for that im greatful.

[DangerRed]

I'm just really happy to see this happen.

I wonder if Jimmy B had a big part to play in this decision. He seems like a "for the fans" kind of voice at the table.

[Stryker]

I'm just really happy to see this happen.

I wonder if Jimmy B had a big part to play in this decision. He seems like a "for the fans" kind of voice at the table.

I somehow don't picture Brennen as having any backbone in the office. He won't go againest the grain on anything for fear of losing his job. Gotta pay for those Louis Vuitton man purses and all.

[bgnewf]

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/10/tom-anselmi-blinked/

[DangerRed]

I somehow don't picture Brennen as having any backbone in the office. He won't go againest the grain on anything for fear of losing his job. Gotta pay for those Louis Vuitton man purses and all.

What's that based on?

[Sweeper]

Did anybody bring up the Marlies game packs at the Townhall meeting? I felt violated after having to buy that package to get on the Gold waiting list......2 years ago. It will take a lot of price freezes and freebies from MLS to make up for $300 in Marlies tickets I couldn't even sell.

[Darlofletch]

re marlies packs, I asked paul after one of the first ones, and it came up in the u sector one.

paul initially tried to go with semantics in that no one was forced to buy them, then he went with he really doesn't want to have to do that, and has argued against them, but he lost. I got the impression that such cross selling is just the way mlse works and will probably continue. hopefully they'll be gone as well, but i doubt it.

[Beach_Red]

I'm just really happy to see this happen.

I wonder if Jimmy B had a big part to play in this decision. He seems like a "for the fans" kind of voice at the table.

I hope not. I'm disaapointed that he and Cochran were even at these meetings. One of the biggest problems (maybe the biggest problem) TFC has had since it started was mixing the ticket sales and team performance - that's how you get statements like, "We don't need a DP, all the tickets are sold."

This team really needs to have someone who's only job is putting together a winning team and who's not involved at all in the business end.

[Pookie]

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/10/tom-anselmi-blinked/

Nice read.

[DangerRed]

I hope not. I'm disaapointed that he and Cochran were even at these meetings. One of the biggest problems (maybe the biggest problem) TFC has had since it started was mixing the ticket sales and team performance - that's how you get statements like, "We don't need a DP, all the tickets are sold."

This team really needs to have someone who's only job is putting together a winning team and who's not involved at all in the business end.

I don't know, out of all the guys at the table, Paul and Tom are MLSE execs, Earl is an MLSE PR guy and Jimmy is the former team captain and a fan favorite who recognizes the importance of support.

With that said, I do take your point. A lot of the trouble this team encountered was caused by the lack of separation of the church and state when it came to business vs on-field performance.

[guelphguy1965]

FAIL: I am still forced to pay for [B][I] two Nutrilite Canadian Championship games. So it is up to me to pay for them then try to find someone to buy the tickets from me.
FAIL: Giving us home opener free? Giving us credit to our account? that is still money in their pocket instead of me having the cash in my pocket to pay my bills.
FAIL: Price freeze for 2012? Prices are high as it is so they are doing us a favor by not increasing the prices in 5th year?

Rest of promises are just words and don't mean anything. I have heard enough talk and bullshit from FO. i am still dropping 3 tickets.
I am sure someone is going to tell me I am wrong but then there are people who would argue with their own shadow just for sake of argument.
peace and out

[Pookie]

No one sees a correlation between Garber just happening to be in town and this "concession"?

[Pookie]

^ if TFC is playing in the Canadian Championships, why is having a ticket to that an issue?

[Oldtimer]

No one sees a correlation between Garber just happening to be in town and this "concession"?

I do.

(look at my post on page 4)

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm absolutely shocked that we are getting the home opener for free! It's not like I honestly care about the additional $20.00 that I would have spent on that one game but the fact that MLSE is willing to bite the bullet on the revenue that game would have generated is unbelievable...

[MartinUtd]

re marlies packs, I asked paul after one of the first ones, and it came up in the u sector one.

paul initially tried to go with semantics in that no one was forced to buy them, then he went with he really doesn't want to have to do that, and has argued against them, but he lost. I got the impression that such cross selling is just the way mlse works and will probably continue. hopefully they'll be gone as well, but i doubt it.

It is. If you ever want Leafs platinum ST's you'll need to pick up platinum Raptors ST's as well.

[Stryker]

What's that based on?
Poor captaincy and being a turf pitch man for a small fraction of his yearly salary.

[Luanda]

Let me just say... Is this only about renewing at the cheapest possible $$$?

[Pookie]

I do.

(look at my post on page 4)

You sir are smart

[Oldtimer]

You sir are smart

Just don't put me in a Pookie short, and I'll be fine and happy. :D

[Kyle_121]

I didn't get to attend the town hall meetings in person, but it sounds like they finally heard what was being told to them.

[GBV]

Wasn't the deadline to renew today and now they are extending it again to Monday?

This letter was their last hope to get people renewing, something tells me that this may be a stronger reason why they released this letter today.

don't trust the devil people, he will get you every time

For sure.
Would LOVE to see what the renewal numbers were.

[tfcmanu]

Edmonton may be in the tourney.

I think there will be a qualification round to get to the Nutralite Cdn Championship TFC qualifies being champs so EDM MTL & VAN will compete and two teams advance.

[Kyle_121]

Between me and my 3 buddies, we account for 10-12 people on the waiting list. I'm sure that others also signed up multiple times. Not to mention that I'm sure the majority of the people on the list are people who simply want cheaper seats when they become available.

[Mikey]

This should make it very interesting for the tail end of next season.
If they can put out a decent team and make the playoffs, everyone will think the price freeze for 2012 is a bargain.

If TFC shits the bed once again and officially becomes the worst team in MLS history with no playoffs in 5 years, then it wont matter anyway, the place will look like thr Lynx are back......

This ongoing TFC saga should be on daytime TV...in Spanish!

[nascarguy]

FAIL: I am still forced to pay for [b][i] two Nutrilite Canadian Championship games. So it is up to me to pay for them then try to find someone to buy the tickets from me.
FAIL: Giving us home opener free? Giving us credit to our account? that is still money in their pocket instead of me having the cash in my pocket to pay my bills.
FAIL: Price freeze for 2012? Prices are high as it is so they are doing us a favor by not increasing the prices in 5th year?

Rest of promises are just words and don't mean anything. I have heard enough talk and bullshit from FO. i am still dropping 3 tickets.
I am sure someone is going to tell me I am wrong but then there are people who would argue with their own shadow just for sake of argument.
peace and outnope your right I fell the same way

[TFC Cityboy]

victory is sweet! Well done to all who attended the meetings, sent feedback via the account reps and did not hit the RENEW button til the last minute.
There were a good many cynics on here saying we were wasting our time and energy.
Score one up for the little guy.

[Darlofletch]

This should make it very interesting for the tail end of next season.
If they can put out a decent team and make the playoffs, everyone will think the price freeze for 2012 is a bargain.

If TFC shits the bed once again and officially becomes the worst team in MLS history with no playoffs in 5 years, then it wont matter anyway, the place will look like thr Lynx are back......

This ongoing TFC saga should be on daytime TV...in Spanish!

It gives me a bit of hope that they're going to be patient with the new guy and accept that they may not have immediate success next year, but that it might take him into his 2nd year to do that. While it makes me think next year might suck, i'm happy if it means they're going to give the new guy time.

Hopefully the supporters will also show a modicum of patience rather than jump on the first losing streak as evidence we need to change again.

[JonO]

Yeah... good luck with that...

[boban]

Wow. I am a bit stunned. This coming from MLSE that is.
But great working everyone on these boards and not for letting MLSE hear our displeasure.
I am just stunned that 4 individuals signed it. Big props for doing that. Growing some balls finally.

Now we have to see what the soccer side hold for us in the future. On that end they have a short leash.

[Nestease]

Seattle Sounders have a three year price freeze on original season ticket holders from 2009. Their $288 got them a MLS Cup and friendlies with Barcelona and Chelsea all in the same year. That same year, Seattle made the playoffs and their price freeze still stayed intact for the following season. The next season they received a credit for a free game for the following season without even asking.

In that same 2009 season, after having Paul teasing you on his twitter with "big name" international friendlies in your season ticket package, MLSE gave us Real Madrid. Only it wasn't included and was offered at a "loyalty price of $125 instead of $140". In the meantime, MLSE scrambled to get River Plate to cover their obligations. The following season you were rewarded with yet another price increase. In 2010, Paul justified the price increase because they thought they were on pace to make the playoffs before it all blew up in their face. Seattle has already clinched their second playoff birth and their tickets will remain at the same price again next year.

The reason you're going a free home game isn't because you're "loyal". It's because MLSE was too stupid to realize that constantly postponing the renewal deadline would mean that new season ticket holders would not be obligated to buy the tickets for the MLS Cup because it would be over by the time relocation and everything else was finished. They were on the hook for thousands of tickets. No walk ups are buying tickets unless its LA vs. New York. If it were any other teams there would be thousands of empty seats. They were desperate and offered you a cheaper game for free to help even out their cost while having you cough of the dough for a premium game. They were screwed and they know it. The fans of Toronto had MLSE by the balls and they spun the whole thing around to make it seem like they were rewarding you. I thought MLSE was dumb, but today they made me realize how smart they really are.

[Pookie]

The reason you're going a free home game isn't because you're "loyal". It's because MLSE was too stupid to realize that constantly postponing the renewal deadline would mean that new season ticket holders would not be obligated to buy the tickets for the MLS Cup because it would be over by the time relocation and everything else was finished. They were on the hook for thousands of tickets. No walk ups are buying tickets unless its LA vs. New York. If it were any other teams there would be thousands of empty seats. They were desperate and offered you a cheaper game for free to help even out their cost while having you cough of the dough for a premium game. They were screwed and they know it. The fans of Toronto had MLSE by the balls and they spun the whole thing around to make it seem like they were rewarding you. I thought MLSE was dumb, but today they made me realize how smart they really are.

^ this sort of.

I think that the free game is a result of Garber's pressure on MLSE to ensure that the game is well attended. I think it was also partly influenced by the lack of renewals.

That said, neither of which would have become factors if folks sat on their arses and said nothing.

In my mind, MLSE still has the highest per game ticket prices and offer us extremely little in exchange for our money (relative to other MLS Clubs that charge near what MLSE does). That should be the focus of the masses going forward.

[69Chevy396]

New here, but read your forum a lot over the years. I have been purchasing via the gold wait list a half season ticket in section 120, and will probably be given a chance to move up to full seasons tickets this year, but, I won't find out until mid November. In the interim, do any of you have a link to the 2011 seat price per section. The TFC home page still refers to 2010, there is little to go on there, and I want to be able to decide before i get that phone call from the club. They did not send gold wait list people a detailed pricing email, just a notification. Any help would be appreciated. And, things are not so bad, they can only get better, we still have a team in MLS, there will be new rivals next season, and luck will eventually turn.....the costs are excessive, I know, MLSE is a big business, that is clear, but despite this, better soccer in toronto, than no soccer in toronto.

[menefreghista]

I've always wanted to do this: my sources tell me renewals were over 85% heading into today.

They probably made the free game gesture to make people feel less pissed off about the MLS Cup and reconsider attending the game. Plus to help them push the rate over 90%. Also, they could be fighting so hard to retain current season ticket holders because they realize like most of us that the waiting list is mostly a joke.

It wouldn't surprise me now if the renewals were close to 95%. Especially with the 2012 price freeze.

With the price freeze they have actually pretty much locked people in for 2 years.

[Beach_Red]

^ Isn't it a little too early to have decided that this has worked? Has there been any reliable reporting of how the renewals are going? If this came out today then it seems like they still needed something to push ticket sales. Maybe this was enough to convice some people, but will it convince enough?

A few weeks (months?) ago MLSE announced that they were increasing the number of season tickets available (by, I think, 2000) and some people speculated this was because they already knew the renewals would be down and when they called people on the waiting list it sounded a lot better to say, "We made more tickets available," instead of, "A lot of people don't want tickets anymore." Now with all the press they've been getting, what are they going to say to people on the wating list whn they call them?

Next week is going to be very interesting.

[prizby]

They were on the hook for thousands of tickets. No walk ups are buying tickets unless its LA vs. New York.

if LAG OR NYRB play they will have walk ups...it doesn't take both teams, just one

[Beach_Red]

I've always wanted to do this: my sources tell me renewals were over 85% heading into today.

They probably made the free game gesture to make people feel less pissed off about the MLS Cup and reconsider attending the game. Plus to help them push the rate over 90%.

It wouldn't surprise me now if the renewals were close to 95%. Especially with the 2012 price freeze.


Sorry, I wasn't really responding to you.

If renewals are 85% this is really amazing. There wasn't really a need to do anything.

[menefreghista]

^ Isn't it a little too early to have decided that this has worked?

I do think in a PR sense it has worked. A lot of pissed off fans are a lot happier today.

[menefreghista]

Sorry, I wasn't really responding to you.

If renewals are 85% this is really amazing. There wasn't really a need to do anything.

No need to apologize!

I think it has to do with the waiting list. They know the waiting list is full of people who want yellow and light grey tickets. Its not full of people ready to drop cash on reds or even blue seats.

[flatpicker]

Seattle Sounders have a three year price freeze on original season ticket holders from 2009. Their $288 got them a MLS Cup and friendlies with Barcelona and Chelsea all in the same year. That same year, Seattle made the playoffs and their price freeze still stayed intact for the following season. The next season they received a credit for a free game for the following season without even asking.

In that same 2009 season, after having Paul teasing you on his twitter with "big name" international friendlies in your season ticket package, MLSE gave us Real Madrid. Only it wasn't included and was offered at a "loyalty price of $125 instead of $140". In the meantime, MLSE scrambled to get River Plate to cover their obligations. The following season you were rewarded with yet another price increase. In 2010, Paul justified the price increase because they thought they were on pace to make the playoffs before it all blew up in their face. Seattle has already clinched their second playoff birth and their tickets will remain at the same price again next year.

I won't argue with the fact that TFC fans pay through the nose for tickets when compared to the rest of MLS.
Unfortunately, we have little choice but be at the mercy of Anselmi's "supply and demand".
Thankfully, demand isn't as big as the FO thought it was.
They know now that the product must be at a far higher level if they want to keep us in the stands.

[Chevy]

Only problem is that I am now throughly confused as to what my renewal price will be and what it includes :lol:

Tomorrow's Headline:

"Mathematically Challenged Supporters Protest Increased CONCACAF Calculation Complexity". ;)

[Dave67]

I've always wanted to do this: my sources tell me renewals were over 85% heading into today.


Today was the last day to renew after the 1 week extension on the previous renewal rate.

At 85% 2,400 of the 16,000 STH strongly decided it was time to bail on tickets. Even if those people renew over the weekend it is clear that a strong message has been sent to the TFC front office. You can screw us over but if you royally fuck us we're leaving.

I doubt they pull this $ stunt with the STH's again any time soon.

[Red Rat]

No need to apologize!

I think it has to do with the waiting list. They know the waiting list is full of people who want yellow and light grey tickets. Its not full of people ready to drop cash on reds or even blue seats.
or people being forced to buy Marlies Tickets in order to move up to the Gold status only to be raped again

[Gixmo]

I'm quite surprised after such an intensive campaign to make MLSE listen, so many people are rollin' over and celebrating this as a win. It's a band-aid solution to a smoke and mirrors problem. MLSE is not done with the games, there's still that little Cup debacle which again is ignored.

Then again, no one questions the MLSE Marketing machine :)

Still, I'm very surprised how easy some folks are rollin' over. I wouldn't stop fighting yet. As well, before someone asks, its not enough for me to renew. Time is needed for those wounds to heal. I'll entertain what MLSE offers me, however I'll stand behind my word and fight back. Its called credibility

[Suds]

^ this sort of.

I think that the free game is a result of Garber's pressure on MLSE to ensure that the game is well attended. I think it was also partly influenced by the lack of renewals.

That said, neither of which would have become factors if folks sat on their arses and said nothing.

In my mind, MLSE still has the highest per game ticket prices and offer us extremely little in exchange for our money (relative to other MLS Clubs that charge near what MLSE does). That should be the focus of the masses going forward.


Maybe ... I'm not sure Garber goes around telling the teams how to run their business. He very may well have made the suggestion to MLSE that hey look at alternatives to give something to the fans to make amends.

Yeah I know. I'm splitting hairs a bit. But I don't think Garber put a lot of pressure on MLSE, if any.

[Suds]

I do think in a PR sense it has worked. A lot of pissed off fans are a lot happier today.

Absolutely many more are happy today. But that was the whole point.

[Chevy]

hate to be a debbie downer here, but with them announcing a price freeze for '12, i'm not expecting them to invest a whole lot more into the team either.

either way, my funds i've allocated to TFC will now be used towards a Blue Jays Flex Pack. they are looking promising.

Bye Bye, Debbie.

[Suds]

I'm quite surprised after such an intensive campaign to make MLSE listen, so many people are rollin' over and celebrating this as a win. It's a band-aid solution to a smoke and mirrors problem. MLSE is not done with the games, there's still that little Cup debacle which again is ignored.

Then again, no one questions the MLSE Marketing machine :)

Still, I'm very surprised how easy some folks are rollin' over. I wouldn't stop fighting yet. As well, before someone asks, its not enough for me to renew. Time is needed for those wounds to heal. I'll entertain what MLSE offers me, however I'll stand behind my word and fight back. Its called credibility

From my personal perspective I don't feel like I am rolling over.

MLSE made it clear from start of the town halls that the MLS Cup was not coming out of the package. Yes, still sucks. But that was never on the table. I don't think any pressure on MLSE would have changed that. (but that can be debated)

The offering of the home opener as a free game was the alternative they came up with. Maybe Garber said to MLSE he was not keen on the MLS Cup being given away as it could devalue the game. (pure speculation on my part) So the only other option was for MLSE to east the cost of one of their own games.

[Kyle_121]

I've always wanted to do this: my sources tell me renewals were over 85% heading into today.

They probably made the free game gesture to make people feel less pissed off about the MLS Cup and reconsider attending the game. Plus to help them push the rate over 90%. Also, they could be fighting so hard to retain current season ticket holders because they realize like most of us that the waiting list is mostly a joke.

It wouldn't surprise me now if the renewals were close to 95%. Especially with the 2012 price freeze.

With the price freeze they have actually pretty much locked people in for 2 years.

This whole renewal percentage is total BS anyways. Even if 80% did renew, how many of those people dropped seats for 2011?

So while the FO might report that 80% of people with accounts renewed, I'm guessing that the number of actual seats being renewed will be a lot less.

[Suds]

This whole renewal percentage is total BS anyways. Even if 80% did renew, how many of those people dropped seats for 2011?

So while the FO might report that 80% of people with accounts renewed, I'm guessing that the number of actual seats being renewed will be a lot less.

Good question. Do they base renewal rates on number of season seat holder accounts renewed or actual number of seats renewed? :noidea:

[boban]

... MLSE still has the highest per game ticket prices and offer us extremely little in exchange for our money (relative to other MLS Clubs that charge near what MLSE does). That should be the focus of the masses going forward.
Thats a great point, and it should be the focus.

[ensco]

They had to do something. the Don's arrival in town was the key that it was happening.

Think about it. They have no story at all for the wait list without a GM in place. They had to appease the existing base somehow.

The "home opener is on us" move was a much better gambit than just rolling back the 2011 price increase, even though it has roughly the same impact. It keeps the notional SSH price higher for 2012 purposes.

The market has spoken. No more, no less.

Best to wait to decide what you think about it all until GM is announced, imho.

[DichioTFC]

^ I don't know dude. I think its more that MLS Cup revenue is split with the MLS where other matches are club revenue that can be counted for a loss without being accountable to the league. Besides, little gets the crowd more amp'd than this, and they know they'll need us to start the season off right (with chants and wearing red ;))

Still, despite the over-analyzing that its sure to get here, its an unexpected move that surprised everyone and is really the best concession we can get.

[sulfur]

All MLS ticket sales are split with the league. Not just the MLS Cup. It's part of the whole deal with the MLS actually owning 51% of TFC (and every other team for that matter).

[markus]

1. "Don't price us out of the building. When will price increases stop?"
For returning season seat holders who renew by the deadline, we will honour their 2011 prices for the 2012 season. In other words, there will be no price increase for the 2012 season for renewing 2011 season ticketholders.

I don't what to play what if but what if TFC has another shitty season in 2011? Would there be a decrease in prices for the 2012? Or would it mean that will just get another "We sorry" letter?

[Kyle_121]

1. "Don't price us out of the building. When will price increases stop?"
For returning season seat holders who renew by the deadline, we will honour their 2011 prices for the 2012 season. In other words, there will be no price increase for the 2012 season for renewing 2011 season ticketholders.

I don't what to play what if but what if TFC has another shitty season in 2011? Would there be a decrease in prices for the 2012? Or would it mean that will just get another "We sorry" letter?

If people choose to show displeasure by not opening their wallets, I can see another price decrease happening.

All of this damage control has been about money and nothing else. If renewals were going well, none of would be happening.

If the team shits the bed again next year after they promised to "fix" things, well, they shouldn't expect people to come running to renew their tickets even at the "frozen" price.

[Luanda]

I assume then that for RPBs it is has not been about substance of what has transpired but, rather, at what price they confortably sit their rear end on a particular seat. So, how are RPBs exactly different from MLSE?

[BakaGaijin]

Today was the last day to renew after the 1 week extension on the previous renewal rate.

At 85% 2,400 of the 16,000 STH strongly decided it was time to bail on tickets. Even if those people renew over the weekend it is clear that a strong message has been sent to the TFC front office. You can screw us over but if you royally fuck us we're leaving.

I doubt they pull this $ stunt with the STH's again any time soon.


MLSE needs an extremely high amount of renewals to create scarcity. They then use this 'scarcity' to pressure people on the waiting list's to buy the expensive seats to join the ranks of the almighty 'season ticket holder'. Without scarcity, there is no demand, and those darks grey's and red's don't get sold.

85% renewal is terrible........because MLSE is also adding MORE season tickets this year.....something around 2000 I think. Maybe that plan is out the window now that the supply will be higher than they had anticipated.........

Anyways, these clowns are a bunch of scumbags. They don't care about the fans....they only care about your money.

[Jack]

I assume then that for RPBs it is has not been about substance of what has transpired but, rather, at what price they confortably sit their rear end on a particular seat. So, how are RPBs exactly different from MLSE?

"substance of what transpired"?

What are you aiming at with that comment?

[ochos]

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/10/tom-anselmi-blinked/

Are you still putting it out there that you're not attending the Cup final?

[FluSH]

I assume then that for RPBs it is has not been about substance of what has transpired but, rather, at what price they confortably sit their rear end on a particular seat. So, how are RPBs exactly different from MLSE?

What don't you ask personally... I pay for seasons and don't even get to watch the game... I've also spent thousands of dollars on this club in merch and roadtrips and with the increase they literally made it hard for me to justify another year of renewals... specially when I have two kids... I should have taken them to DisneyWorld rather than me beign selfish seeign TFC lose @ every roadtrip that I've been to with the exception of KC.

[sully]

I'm impressed, this is a step in the right direction. Will renew.

[GBV]

I've always wanted to do this: my sources tell me renewals were over 85% heading into today.

They probably made the free game gesture to make people feel less pissed off about the MLS Cup and reconsider attending the game. Plus to help them push the rate over 90%. Also, they could be fighting so hard to retain current season ticket holders because they realize like most of us that the waiting list is mostly a joke.

It wouldn't surprise me now if the renewals were close to 95%. Especially with the 2012 price freeze.

With the price freeze they have actually pretty much locked people in for 2 years.

85 per cent. i'd very much wager not.
Wheeler from the Sun, who appears to have some good "sources," said earlier in the week that sources said they were around 35 per cent.

[Luanda]

This is not about what any one has spent or not personally.
It is, rather, about the substance of what has transpired over the last 2-3 months and how RPBs have, by and large, responded.

So now that there has been a break on pricing everything is OK with TFC, I should think not.

The problem is not specifically with pricing. If it is, then keep on going to BMO field, keep paying whatever MSLE wants or gets you to pay, and keep on watching a third or fourth rate experience on the field.

But, please, do not bitch about it.

[Kyle_121]

This is not about what any one has spent or not personally.
It is, rather, about the substance of what has transpired over the last 2-3 months and how RPBs have, by and large, responded.

So now that there has been a break on pricing everything is OK with TFC, I should think not.

The problem is not specifically with pricing. If it is, then keep on going to BMO field, keep paying whatever MSLE wants or gets you to pay, and keep on watching a third or fourth rate experience on the field.

But, please, do not bitch about it.

Are you a season seat holder or even someone that has been to a TFC game before or are you some hero behind a keyboard?

[Gixmo]

This is not about what any one has spent or not personally.
It is, rather, about the substance of what has transpired over the last 2-3 months and how RPBs have, by and large, responded.

So now that there has been a break on pricing everything is OK with TFC, I should think not.

The problem is not specifically with pricing. If it is, then keep on going to BMO field, keep paying whatever MSLE wants or gets you to pay, and keep on watching a third or fourth rate experience on the field.

But, please, do not bitch about it.

You and I are on the same page, I see exactly where you are coming from

One game is given 'free', hardly making a dent in the grand scheme of things and many members celebrate. We huff, we puff and we back down (generalized statement)

This is business marketing 101. Some of you see this, some of you don't. This is a PR move, just like the town halls. Its a bandaid solution that is being eaten up hook, line and sinker.

Remember this thread 12 months from now. The puppeteers @ MLSE have you hooked up again.

Sing loud, Sing proud. The home opener is free! The Supporters are back!

(Note : its an opinion, don't get all bent out of shape)

[CretanBull]

This is not about what any one has spent or not personally.
It is, rather, about the substance of what has transpired over the last 2-3 months and how RPBs have, by and large, responded.

So now that there has been a break on pricing everything is OK with TFC, I should think not.

The problem is not specifically with pricing. If it is, then keep on going to BMO field, keep paying whatever MSLE wants or gets you to pay, and keep on watching a third or fourth rate experience on the field.

But, please, do not bitch about it.

I'm not trying to be funny (or an asshole), but is English your first language? What you wrote doesn't make any sense at all.

[nfitz]

Wheeler from the Sun, who appears to have some good "sources," said earlier in the week that sources said they were around 35 per cent.I just had to quote that to savour the absurdity of the statement.

Think about it.

Wheeler?

The Sun?

[mclaren]

FAIL: I am still forced to pay for [B][I] two Nutrilite Canadian Championship games. So it is up to me to pay for them then try to find someone to buy the tickets from me.
FAIL: Giving us home opener free? Giving us credit to our account? that is still money in their pocket instead of me having the cash in my pocket to pay my bills.
FAIL: Price freeze for 2012? Prices are high as it is so they are doing us a favor by not increasing the prices in 5th year?

Rest of promises are just words and don't mean anything. I have heard enough talk and bullshit from FO. i am still dropping 3 tickets.
I am sure someone is going to tell me I am wrong but then there are people who would argue with their own shadow just for sake of argument.
peace and out

QFT. I am SHOCKED at people's reaction to this! Nothing of substance IMO and last ditch reaction by MLSE due to terrible ticket sales. If this appeases us, we're putty in their hands. Still NOT renewing, and neither are the two other guys I go with.

[nfitz]

Nothing of substance IMO and last ditch reaction by MLSE due to terrible ticket sales.They reduced the cost of seasons next year ... again. Effectively the dropped the per game cost in supporters from $19 to $18 for those that renew.

And they've guaranteed that there will be even cheaper next year, without an MLS Cup or Carlsberg Cup game.

[werewolf]

QFT. I am SHOCKED at people's reaction to this! Nothing of substance IMO and last ditch reaction by MLSE due to terrible ticket sales. If this appeases us, we're putty in their hands. Still NOT renewing, and neither are the two other guys I go with.

I think the reputation that North American sports franchises and MLSE have made for themselves makes this a bigger deal then it is. In reality it isn't much, and while it is a nice gesture, that doesn't mean I have forgotten about the last 3 inexcusable price increases and sub-standard performances.

This is a step in the right-driection, but there are still issues that remain. If we rest on our laurels and loudly proclaim we have won something, we are ultimately going to lose out. It's more of a slight compromise, give and take should be the expectation, not this great gift that we should have us kissing the sidewalk of Princes Blvd.

[Beach_Red]

I'm not trying to be funny (or an asshole), but is English your first language? What you wrote doesn't make any sense at all.

It seems that what he's saying is that the sentiment in your signature line is still 100% running the show and this move is just a tiny blip, not a change in direction.

[Roogsy]

This is not about what any one has spent or not personally.
It is, rather, about the substance of what has transpired over the last 2-3 months and how RPBs have, by and large, responded.

So now that there has been a break on pricing everything is OK with TFC, I should think not.

The problem is not specifically with pricing. If it is, then keep on going to BMO field, keep paying whatever MSLE wants or gets you to pay, and keep on watching a third or fourth rate experience on the field.

But, please, do not bitch about it.

If you had been paying attention, you would have realized it's not about a winning team but a front office that does alienate it's fans and supporters.

At the end of the day, whether someone is happy with this gesture from the FO is up to them. But for you to make it out to be about "RPB" is ridiculous. I'd be very interested to find out what you did to help pressure TFC to start listening?

[Roogsy]

I think the reputation that North American sports franchises and MLSE have made for themselves makes this a bigger deal then it is. In reality it isn't much, and while it is a nice gesture, that doesn't mean I have forgotten about the last 3 inexcusable price increases and sub-standard performances.

This is a step in the right-driection, but there are still issues that remain. If we rest on our laurels and loudly proclaim we have won something, we are ultimately going to lose out. It's more of a slight compromise, give and take should be the expectation, not this great gift that we should have us kissing the sidewalk of Princes Blvd.


QFT.

This is a small victory in a long war. As I told some of the TFC executives, what was lost here was trust and they have to start earning it back. Trust is not earned back overnight so I don't know what they could have done to win everyone back at once. But this is a start and not a small one. I am waiting to see what else they do and whether there was a culture shock at the FO that has made them realize not to try this bullshit again.

Fool me once...shame on you...fool me twice well...

[king dave]

Hope each and everyone of you stay the course.
I will always have your back if you stand up.
KD

[flatpicker]

Hope each and everyone of you stay the course.
I will always have your back if you stand up.
KD

Will you be going shirts-off when you stand up?

[CretanBull]

It seems that what he's saying is that the sentiment in your signature line is still 100% running the show and this move is just a tiny blip, not a change in direction.

It seems like others figured it out, so I guess it was just me.

To that point, the reality is that we're dealing with a profit-driven corporation and that's never going to change. Some people are reacting as if MLSE haven't offered up anything more than platitudes, but I'm willing to bet from their perspective they probably think that they completely caved because they have no history of doing anything even remotely close to what they've done here.

Were 100% of the issues dealt with in a way that's left us 100% satisfied? No of course not, but that was never going to be the out come of any of this and it would have been naive to think otherwise. Its like when a union negotiates with a company - a fair deal is one where both sides can live with it but neither side is happy about it.

The cost of attending games was BY FAR the biggest issue for me. The MLS Cup ticket is still a sore spot, but ultimately its a ticket that (I hope) can be sold and the per-game price increase is off-set by the free home opener. A price freeze for 2012 lets me know that I don't have to worry about this stuff again until 2013.

Its not a perfect solution, but its one I can live with.

[Pachuco]

Pachuco it was said sarcasticaly so calm down a bit... because no matter what happend people will still moan and bitch that was my point

About prices at the end of the day sitting in the supporters seats there is value as what can you do for $20 in this city???

My problem is the product on the field and that's it nothing more nothing else. If the product was better then I have no issue with the increase.

Totally calm here, apologies if it came out the wrong way. Anyways, one thing I've learned from reading these boards is that most of RPB members plus the registered users that post on this board do not sit in 112 or in supporter's sections. They are all over the stadium. I personally bitch and moan about my own prices, and for me, dark grey's are unreasonable. Considering the section right beside me pays half of what I do. I to believe that supporter's prices are reasonable.

[CretanBull]

I personally bitch and moan about my own prices, and for me, dark grey's are unreasonable. Considering the section right beside me pays half of what I do. I to believe that supporter's prices are reasonable.

It's all relative though, isn't it? $400 is reasonable compared to the cost of dark greys, but is $400 reasonable when not long ago they were $200?

How's the view from your seats? 'Cause from mine I can't see what's happening in the far 18 yard box. Is that reasonable?

[andyc]

I think that this statement by MLSE is significant.

They are an organization who's DNA says that ticket prices go up each year. They also don't give anything away for free. Of course if 98% of the SSH renewed and every RPB said no then they wouldn't have listened but regular fans were pissed and the supporters groups were able to influence the conversation. This is something to acknowledge and celebrate - Well done to the RPB executive!

We have a price freeze commitment, removal of non existent games (Champions League), a commitment to TFC centric future season package composition as well as a free game. To me this is a BIG shift that the customers were able to influence.

Now the club have to step up and fix the on field performance...

To me this offer seems appropriate and fair. MLSE are on notice that the supporters will not bend over year after year. I think that the club have stepped up and now we need to give them an opportunity to correct the performance issues. The club needs to find a credible and effective management team but for now they have won back my support.

Of course this is subject to the fool me once rule....

[nascarguy]

I'm not buy this for a min something smell bad about this.

[nascarguy]

dark grey's are unreasonable. Considering the section right beside me pays half of what I do. I to believe that supporter's prices are reasonable.I know I move from 120 to 119/111 2 year ago and the price dope just about in haft now the price is back up to where I pay the 1st year

[jloome]

I'm not trying to be funny (or an asshole), but is English your first language? What you wrote doesn't make any sense at all.

Actually, it makes perfect sense, except that the comma in one sentence should've been a question mark. Otherwise, perfectly logical.

[CretanBull]

Actually, it makes perfect sense, except that the comma in one sentence should've been a question mark. Otherwise, perfectly logical.

How is the idea of a protest about pricing coupled with "...keep playing whatever MSLE wants" when the protests lead to a free game this year and the removal of the MLS Cup from the package (and a price freeze) next year have off-set the increases?

[ilikemusic]

Blah blah blah, were MLSE, arent we great? Look at what were doing for you! Arent you lucky to have us? Were not going to charge you for games that dont exist. Isnt that nice of us? And we know were ripping you off this year on MLS Cup, but we promise never to do that again (lucky for us we will never host it again anyway).

Oh generous and wise MLSE, how may I pay you today?

[Cashcleaner]

So now that I've had a bit of time to digest the news, I must admit that I'm still a bit lukewarm to the idea of renewing.

If MLSE put the price freeze in effect for 2011 instead of 2012, I'd be fairly satisfied. Not completely satisfied, mind you; but at least it would be a step in the right direction in my eyes.

Personally, I think we need to keep things in perspective here. While many would consider MLSE's latest concessions as a willingness to play ball with the fans I really have to point out the ridiculousness of even being in our current position. A 100% increase over five years for some ticket holders is still a 100% price increase, and it's hard to listen to all the talk about prices for 2012 with that point still unresolved.

To me, it's hard to decided if we've won a victory here or not. On the fact alone that so little is being done for 2011, I'm of the mindset that no, it's not really. On the flip-side, however, it has proven two things:

A) The supporters and unaffiliated fans can come together if need-be and organize a unified front against questionable practises from the club

and,

B) The club, when confronted by the fans and supporters, will at least make an attempt to hear us out and offer a compromise.

I share the sentiment that this development should not be simply chalked up as a win by some and left at that. As others have suggested, after the events of the last few weeks, we need to come to terms with the fact that our current relationship with the FO is pretty much over.

I don't think the latest concessions are enough for me to renew - but I am in contact with my ticket rep trying to work out a way to move into the supporters section and subsequent lower price bracket.

[Chevy]

MLSE could have reduced ticket prices by 50% and offered pole-dancers in the concourse...

....and a significant portion of people on these boards would still complain.

It's a victory for supporters. Non-existent games removed from the package, and when you factor in the free 2011 opener the price per game has been positively impacted as well. Price freeze for 2012.

That's a decent gesture in my books.

[Hustle]

I hope that this capitulation by ML$E will engage people for the future who thought "I am not going to do anything because MLSE isn't ever going to change". I noticed that they didn't allow facebook comments on this open letter. Thats too bad, because I bet they would have been pleasantly surprised. No doubt that there will be more battles to fight in the future but we have a good precedent that things CAN change. Keeping a strong community around this club is what I enjoy fighting for.

[GBV]

I just had to quote that to savour the absurdity of the statement.

Think about it.

Wheeler?

The Sun?

Believe what you will. Dude clearly has people in the know, though.

Missssssta ....

[sully]

So if 2012 packages will only include regular MLS matches and 2 Canadian Championship games, then the Marlies issue had been resolved too?

[H Bomb]

I think a lot of the negativity going on about this is a bit strange. Of course yall are welcome to think what you like but this is a big victory in many ways. A price freeze is something that was considered out of the question a week ago. Add that to a credit and its not bad. But much much more than this is that they did anything. Its that the egos as a whole told them that it wasnt good enough and they had to make a change. This sets a precedent and shows the power our people show. Today we are not just a football team but a club, maybe for the first time.

[Pookie]

I think a lot of the negativity going on about this is a bit strange. Of course yall are welcome to think what you like but this is a big victory in many ways. A price freeze is something that was considered out of the question a week ago. Add that to a credit and its not bad. But much much more than this is that they did anything. Its that the egos as a whole told them that it wasnt good enough and they had to make a change. This sets a precedent and shows the power our people show. Today we are not just a football team but a club, maybe for the first time.

I wouldn't call it a victory.

When you are getting your lights punch out and the attacker stops hitting you, it feels good but you didn't win the fight.

We have the highest per game ticket prices in all of MLS in Clubs, Reds, Dark Greys and Light Blues. The 2nd highest prices in Med and Light Grey and 3rd highest in the supporters section.

Interesting too when the Light Blues (North Stand) was sold exclusively to the Red List as a "thank you", they did so at the highest prices in the league.

Gold List members that have been forced to buy Marlies' packs result in the highest per game ticket price in all of MLS in any section.

When we are not leading the league in that price per game category, we are up there with Seattle and LA. Both of whom offer free food, parking, up to 5 (not 1), count 'em 5 FREE Bonus games (including MLS Playoff games.. I heard a rumour that they play them).

What happens if TFC ever make the playoffs? My money is on "They charge us a premium per game price... slightly discounted for our "loyalty" before they release them for sale to the public.

People remark about the concession on the CONCACAF, fine. Do you plan on not attending next year if we make the Pre-lims or Group Stages? If so, I guess this is a victory.

But if you go, and you will because you are a supporter, you haven't "won" a thing. It still is going to add to your total budget to see TFC.

And if you do go, you are going to be paying the highest or next to highest per game prices to do so (see above). Remember the LA Galaxy give away up 5 free bonus games and charge LESS than TFC does in most cases. LA's attendance is on par with ours.

Wouldn't it be nice to get the CONCACAF games and MLS Playoffs as a true "loyalty" bonus?

[rocker]

I wouldn't call it a victory.

When you are getting your lights punch out and the attacker stops hitting you, it feels good but you didn't win the fight.

that's the worst choice of metaphor for this situation that I could ever imagine.

[koryo]

Can someone clear up something for me: the 2011 price includes the Cup Final ticket. Obviously that's not the case in 2012. Is the price freeze on a per-game basis or on the aggregate cost?

[sully]

Can someone clear up something for me: the 2011 price includes the Cup Final ticket. Obviously that's not the case in 2012. Is the price freeze on a per-game basis or on the aggregate cost?

Someone already said per-game basis is what is understood. But what about marlies? Are they out now?

[koryo]

Someone already said per-game basis is what is understood. But what about marlies? Are they out now?

Thanks sully.

[H Bomb]

Per game yo. Least that the story.

[koryo]

Per game yo. Least that the story.

I'm a lazy bastard, so I can't be bothered wading through the whole thread to find out. Appreciated.

[H Bomb]

Scallys?

[Luanda]

just a working class hero!

[Luanda]

I'm not trying to be funny (or an asshole), but is English your first language? What you wrote doesn't make any sense at all.

Does English need to be your first language for anyone on these boards to post anything? If so, I should then think that most people would find themselves, let us say, out of the loop and, consequently, discriminated against on the basis of what linguistic context they happened to be brought into the world.

And by the way, if you think that having English as your first language saves you brom butchering the language of Shakespeare, written or spoken, then think again -- as these boards many times make painfully plain.

[CretanBull]

Does English need to be your first language for anyone on these boards to post anything? If so, I should then think that most people would find themselves, let us say, out of the loop and, consequently, discriminated against on the basis of what linguistic context they happened to be brought into the world.

And by the way, if you think that having English as your first language saves you brom butchering the language of Shakespeare, written or spoken, then think again -- as these boards many times make painfully plain.

It was meant as a genuine question and not as an attack or insult (I thought the preface to my question made that clear). You use an unusual syntax that I find awkward, but -as I said in reply to someone else - others seem to not have a problem understanding you so its probably just me.

For the record, I don't have an issue of any sort with anyone who's first language isn't English contributing to our boards. Everyone is welcome here.

[sully]

So will we still pay for the first game and then get a credit on our account or will the total to pay be reduced by the value of the first game? Or does it depend on whether you already paid or paid only after this email announcement? Questions...questions.. (by the way, Luanda, I don't think anyone is trying to offend you..)

[flatpicker]

^ They said that an email would be coming out shortly to explain that.
So we shall have to wait and see.
But knowing MLSE, it's probably a credit... but a refund would be nice.

[TFC Cityboy]

MLSE could have reduced ticket prices by 50% and offered pole-dancers in the concourse...

....and a significant portion of people on these boards would still complain.

It's a victory for supporters. Non-existent games removed from the package, and when you factor in the free 2011 opener the price per game has been positively impacted as well. Price freeze for 2012.

That's a decent gesture in my books.

exactly. I think many of us are happy to gain this small victory and lay down arms against the club on this issue.

Next season we get back to supporting those privileged to wear the shirts. Is everything perfect? No of course not and there are still issues that will need to be ironed out. Ask supporters of any club and it'll be the same.

As someone already wrote, it's like a union negotiation.We gained enough of a concession from management to lay down our arms on this particular fight.

Call me naive, but I can't see MLSE treating the fan base with such arrogance for a while, and if they do, they have had a small taste of what to expect.

[Pigfynn]

exactly. I think many of us are happy to gain this small victory and lay down arms against the club on this issue.

Next season we get back to supporting those privileged to wear the shirts. Is everything perfect? No of course not and there are still issues that will need to be ironed out. Ask supporters of any club and it'll be the same.

As someone already wrote, it's like a union negotiation.We gained enough of a concession from management to lay down our arms on this particular fight.

Call me naive, but I can't see MLSE treating the fan base with such arrogance for a while, and if they do, they have had a small taste of what to expect.

Bang on!

We need to take this as a victory (however small) and move on towards a new year, with new possibilities.

I for one, am glad that I can get back to showing love for my club. It's like when you have to punish your kids.. It is necessary, but it never feels good and you just wish everything could run smoothly and that everyone gets along. I feel that we HAVE to move on now and get positive, otherwise what's the point?

:scarf:

[Pookie]

that's the worst choice of metaphor for this situation that I could ever imagine.

Perhaps you could imagine writing a better one then?

[TFC Cityboy]

Bang on!

We need to take this as a victory (however small) and move on towards a new year, with new possibilities.

I for one, am glad that I can get back to showing love for my club. It's like when you have to punish your kids.. It is necessary, but it never feels good and you just wish everything could run smoothly and that everyone gets along. I feel that we HAVE to move on now and get positive, otherwise what's the point?

:scarf:

yup..I can now focus my hate on clubs that I have ALWAYS despised and get back to feeling positive towards TFC

[Roogsy]

Like many here, I am not thrilled at what TFC has come up with. It seems to be "bare minimum". But I think the pummeling they've taken has woken them up a bit and the price freeze for one year does seem to be a concession, therefore a small victory for fans and supporters.

At this point, with the year done and the point made, I am resigned that this is all we are going to get this year and I want to go back to supporting my team and watching some soccer.

So the battle is over, but the war continues. We'll be watching. Carefully.

[Luanda]

It was meant as a genuine question and not as an attack or insult (I thought the preface to my question made that clear). You use an unusual syntax that I find awkward, but -as I said in reply to someone else - others seem to not have a problem understanding you so its probably just me.

For the record, I don't have an issue of any sort with anyone who's first language isn't English contributing to our boards. Everyone is welcome here.


Excellent...glad to see this.

[menefreghista]

But what about marlies? Are they out now?

They will still be doing Marlies packs.


What happens if TFC ever make the playoffs? My money is on "They charge us a premium per game price... slightly discounted for our "loyalty" before they release them for sale to the public.

People remark about the concession on the CONCACAF, fine. Do you plan on not attending next year if we make the Pre-lims or Group Stages? If so, I guess this is a victory.

But if you go, and you will because you are a supporter, you haven't "won" a thing. It still is going to add to your total budget to see TFC.

This year, had TFC made the playoffs, those tickets would have cost $23 each in the south end.

As for the CCL ticket removal, I win because I don't have to give MLSE money 8 months in advance for an bunch of games that may never occur.

[Pookie]

As for the CCL ticket removal, I win because I don't have to give MLSE money 8 months in advance for an bunch of games that may never occur.

No, you just had to give them a 25% non-refundable deposit while other clubs, including Vancouver, ask for just $50 throughout the entire stadium.

[menefreghista]

No, you just had to give them a 25% non-refundable deposit while other clubs, including Vancouver, ask for just $50 throughout the entire stadium.

That doesn't even make sense.

I know Philadelphia Union fans had to pay 25% by October 7.

Come on, I hate MLSE with a passion. But lets not diminish what has occurred and be obtuse about it.

[Pookie]

True, that was their first payment.

It's not obtuse it is part of the picture. That picture being that we have the highest per game ticket prices throughout the stadium and receive little value for it. Teams like LA get 5 bonus games, Seattle fans have all inclusive stadium snacks and non-alcoholic beverages, both have parking passes.

Philly is an interesting comparison, their Club seats are $1,100 vs our $1,900. 25% of $800 is $200 more, up front.

In '08/'09 the deposit required for TFC was just $50.

[sully]

[QUOTE=menefreghista;1156452]They will still be doing Marlies packs

But this contradicts point #2 of the email. It specifically refers to season tickets not including other teams.

[Beach_Red]

[QUOTE=menefreghista;1156452]They will still be doing Marlies packs

But this contradicts point #2 of the email. It specifically refers to season tickets not including other teams.

Are the Marlies packs season tickets or partial season?

And Pookie, while it's probably true we don't get as good a deal as other cities, so far it has been more difficult tomsell tickets to MLS games in other cities. Free parking is a good incentive if tickets aren't selling but so far TMFC hasn't had to do anything to sell tickets.

It will be interesting to see what kinds of incentives are offered if ticket sales are low.

[Pookie]

And Pookie, while it's probably true we don't get as good a deal as other cities, so far it has been more difficult tomsell tickets to MLS games in other cities. Free parking is a good incentive if tickets aren't selling but so far TMFC hasn't had to do anything to sell tickets.



Free parking was offered in Seattle for the $1,500 per year price point. The $700 price point enjoys all inclusive stadium snacks and non-alcoholic beverages.

Last time I checked, Seattle wasn't having a hard time moving tickets either.

[Beach_Red]

Free parking was offered in Seattle for the $1,500 per year price point. The $700 price point enjoys all inclusive stadium snacks and non-alcoholic beverages.

Last time I checked, Seattle wasn't having a hard time moving tickets either.

You just depress me, you know that ;)

It's a great idea but I can already hear them giving us some excuse about the parking being handled by the CNE and there's nothing they can do...

To be honest, if the team was winning I wouldn't be so concerned about all this. For me, they should have handled the low renewal rate by making a big splashy announcement about a "management team" and brought in the biggest name willing to come here.

The amount of tickets they sold the first four seasons prove that the market is here - as long as there was a little hope the team would get better people
renewed. It really wasn't the price increase or charging for the Cup game that decided it for me and the people I go to the games with, it was the shambles the team is in. I don't know anyone who has faith that this team will be competitive next year - even though it actually is possible to turn it around in one year.

For many of us a price freeze and free parking won't get us back into the
stadium.

[Gixmo]

Some of the bandwagon jumping here is nuts.. Ouch.. On one hand, a supporter is pressed to produce what he/she did to apply pressure.. Nothing, He/she was part of a collective group who took a collective stand and are now drawing opposite lines in the sand.

Questionable guys.. Why are so many rollin over... stay the course, or become a puppet..

KD - I stayed the course, I'll see you @ the Academy games... Staying the course...

[smeghead]

Yup..Gonna enjoy the young reds till management can show they know what they are doin. I aint drinkin their koolaid.

[Shakes McQueen]

Good on them for legitimately responding to the town hall meetings.

- Scott

[Azerban]

KD - I stayed the course, I'll see you @ the Academy games... Staying the course...

hope you're only going to the away games, or you're still giving them money (almost exactly as much money too, 19 for a TFC game v. 15 for an academy game?)

[Oldtimer]

As someone already wrote, it's like a union negotiation.We gained enough of a concession from management to lay down our arms on this particular fight.

Call me naive, but I can't see MLSE treating the fan base with such arrogance for a while, and if they do, they have had a small taste of what to expect.

It's a very apt comparison, and yes, I think that ML$E has learned a lesson, or sorts.

[Pookie]

You just depress me, you know that ;)

It's a great idea but I can already hear them giving us some excuse about the parking being handled by the CNE and there's nothing they can do...

To be honest, if the team was winning I wouldn't be so concerned about all this. For me, they should have handled the low renewal rate by making a big splashy announcement about a "management team" and brought in the biggest name willing to come here.

The amount of tickets they sold the first four seasons prove that the market is here - as long as there was a little hope the team would get better people
renewed. It really wasn't the price increase or charging for the Cup game that decided it for me and the people I go to the games with, it was the shambles the team is in. I don't know anyone who has faith that this team will be competitive next year - even though it actually is possible to turn it around in one year.

For many of us a price freeze and free parking won't get us back into the
stadium.

Not to depress you further but LA is another Club that isn't having any trouble moving tickets or making a profit (larger than TFC according to Forbes).

- what about an opportunity to exchange your unused (and un-resold... if un-resold is a word) for future games? LA offers that. If you can't sell your tickets on the ticket exchange, trade 'em in for a game you can get to. No guarantees on the same seat mind you but you get in the door

And just for a kicker, read this:

Dear Galaxy Season Ticket Holder:

WE'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS!

Thanks to another home win on Saturday (as well as some other results over the weekend), your LA Galaxy have clinched a 2010 playoff berth! We are pleased to announce that Bonus Game E of your Galaxy full season ticket plan will be our Conference Semifinal Series home match (date and time TBD).


Winning would make me happy about the team. But winning, and paying extra for it, wouldn't make me any happier about the ownership.

I like the concession on the free game, now, let's see some real concessions.

[Chevy]

hope you're only going to the away games, or you're still giving them money (almost exactly as much money too, 19 for a TFC game v. 15 for an academy game?)

Considering the much lower operating and minimal salary costs of the Academy, you could easily argue that going to an Academy game at $15 is more profitable to the parent company than going to TFC at $19.

Even if the above is false, selecting the Academy as your club of choice doesn't punish MLSE for two reasons.

#1 - someone is likely going to fill your cheap seat at BMO, so no loss to MLSE there.

#2 - you're taking an empty seat at the academy games, pure gravy to MLSE.

Basically any funds you spend on this club , academy or otherwise benefit MLSE.

So who exactly are the puppets here?

[Beach_Red]

Not to depress you further but LA is another Club that isn't having any trouble moving tickets or making a profit (larger than TFC according to Forbes).

I like the concession on the free game, now, let's see some real concessions.

Yes, a better deal on tickets might get me back into the stadium, but really, is there any demand for more concessions? This message board is full of praise for "responding legitimately" and claiming victory.

It is a negotiation and if people are calling this a victory, why would further concessions be offered?