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Toronto_Bhoy
10-19-2010, 06:07 PM
Are you fucking serious, Don?





Despite MLSE's best intentions to repair the damage, there is legitimate concern that TFC fans might continue to protest the club's failures on the field and the season ticket price hikes by opting to not attend the MLS Cup, the league's championship game, scheduled for Nov. 21 at BMO Field.

Garber sees the game as an opportunity for Toronto fans to show how much they support MLS and help it attain a higher level of credibility within the international soccer community.

"I am hoping, and in many ways imploring, that we can continue to count on them to help take this league to a higher level," the commissioner said.

Garber believes TFC fans will show up at the game and said he isn't too concerned about BMO Field being half empty for the league's championship contest.

"It doesn't keep me up at night more than other issues, but I certainly would be thinking of it if I was [MLSE]," Garber said.





Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/10/19/sp-garber-torontofc.html#ixzz12qfnLO5A

Pookie
10-19-2010, 06:12 PM
My favourite line on the prospect of poor attendance for the MLS Cup:


"It doesn't keep me up at night more than other issues, but I certainly would be thinking of it if I was [MLSE]," Garber said.

cmonyoureds
10-19-2010, 06:15 PM
hey Don, we'd like to COUNT ON YOU TO NOT ALLOW US TO GET GOUGED ON PRICE AND PAYING FOR GAMES WE DON'T WANT TO GO TO.

p.s. you first Don......didn't think so

ArmenJBX
10-19-2010, 06:15 PM
Hey Don, maybe instead of giving your buddies in Los Angeles, New York and Seattle all the attention, you give your cash cow up north a little attention too.

MFG1
10-19-2010, 06:15 PM
Don, its not you, its them. Nothing personal but I hope you hold them accountable if it bombs, that to me is the ultimate restitution. This too shall pass............

Red Rat
10-19-2010, 06:16 PM
Hey ML$E give a ticket a few beers and I will be there will all my drums.

J .
10-19-2010, 06:21 PM
I hope its 75% empty, just like price increases and the excuses.

Red Rat
10-19-2010, 06:23 PM
I take it back
ML$E give me free season tickets and I will bring all my drums and will make sure that MLS Cup rocks, actually do you want to hire me? I need a permanent job.

Fushida
10-19-2010, 06:25 PM
Hey Don, maybe instead of giving your buddies in Los Angeles, New York and Seattle all the attention, you give your cash cow up north a little attention too.

well he gave us the mls cup, that's quite the attention isn't it? blame ml$e.

Toronto_Bhoy
10-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Anselmi to Garber:

"Don don't worry, just assume the position we've been taking for the past 4 seasons."

"I never lose any sleep…it's warm and dark."

"Trust me. Works every time."


http://bambamworld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/head-up-ass.jpg

J .
10-19-2010, 06:34 PM
"This is a successful market that has helped truly grow the credibility of this league globally," he said. "When we sit and talk about a U.S. World Cup bid (in 2022), we're going to sit and talk about why America is a soccer nation. And we're showing pictures of BMO Field. We're showing pictures of the Red Patch Boys."

http://tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=337974

Enjoy being a marketing tool?

I dont.

Fuck these idiots.

Red Rat
10-19-2010, 06:38 PM
"This is a successful market that has helped truly grow the credibility of this league globally," he said. "When we sit and talk about a U.S. World Cup bid (in 2022), we're going to sit and talk about why America is a soccer nation. And we're showing pictures of BMO Field. We're showing pictures of the Red Patch Boys."

http://tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=337974

Enjoy being a marketing tool?

I dont.

Fuck these idiots.

shit I just read this, what a joke

Toronto_Bhoy
10-19-2010, 06:39 PM
"When we sit and talk about a U.S. World Cup bid (in 2022), we're going to sit and talk about why America is a soccer nation. And we're showing pictures of BMO Field."

"Sorry, what's that Tom?

What do you mean BMO Field isn't in America? When the hell did you move it?"

Idiot.

flatpicker
10-19-2010, 06:50 PM
What all this says to me is, we have people's attention.
Garber knows how important us fans are, and Tom can't deny the need to keep us happy.
Fingers crossed that we get some better treatment from our club in the coming year.

MartinUtd
10-19-2010, 07:00 PM
Wow this is full of goodies:


Garber said the new teams can learn from a franchise that "wrote the book" on business operations and developing relationships with supporters.

What I don't get is that for all the talk about wanting to be a credible league, wouldn't for us to buckle and "celebrate" two other teams play in our ground for the championship achieve the exact opposite of that? Garber is so stupid that he doesn't realize how shortsighted that is. I won't even get into his gratuitous use of the word "franchise" (yeah, I know its true).

Carefree
10-19-2010, 07:04 PM
Garber sees the game as an opportunity for Toronto fans to show how much they support MLS

Uh, no!

I support TFC. Couldn't care less about MLS.

To me this shows a great lack of understanding of soccer support. Baseball fans will watch the World Series regardless of who's in it. Same with football fans and the Superbowl or hockey fans with the Stanley Cup finals. Soccer fans support their club, not the league.

King Jeff
10-19-2010, 07:14 PM
This whole article nauseates me. I'm fucking tired of this team and the league in general.

Can't we make the International Forum open to everyone again? I miss my League One thread.

billyfly
10-19-2010, 07:51 PM
This whole article nauseates me. I'm fucking tired of this team and the league in general.

Can't we make the International Forum open to everyone again? I miss my League One thread.

For once in long time the blue side of Mersey and Manchester are above their red counterparts and no one on here can gloat about it.

Funny.

moralis
10-19-2010, 07:56 PM
I think we need to stop being so negative about why were hosting the MLS Cup. If we were winning and going into the playoffs then we would love to be the hosts. Look at Seattle hosting last season's MLS Cup, even if they missed the playoffs they would still go. Let's show to all the other MLS supporters why were the best supported team in MLS. I plan to.

Red Rat
10-19-2010, 08:01 PM
I think we need to stop being so negative about why were hosting the MLS Cup. If we were winning and going into the playoffs then we would love to be the hosts. Look at Seattle hosting last season's MLS Cup, even if they missed the playoffs they would still go. Let's show to all the other MLS supporters why were the best supported team in MLS. I plan to.

That was a lot of us but give the facts I want to seat outside BMO and laugh at them and by the way Seattle is far better than us

moralis
10-19-2010, 08:04 PM
I know that Seattle has had a better winning record than us, all I am saying is if they were out the playoffs most Seattle fans would still go and show there passion for their club.

MartinUtd
10-19-2010, 08:05 PM
Yeah, they have a brass band!

Chevy
10-19-2010, 08:14 PM
Hey Don, maybe instead of giving your buddies in Los Angeles, New York and Seattle all the attention, you give your cash cow up north a little attention too.

We can't complain about not getting attention from the league - for the last four years Garber has been all over TFC like a fat kid on a fudge sundae.

We got the All Star Game and also the MLS cup in our first four years. Regardless of how the club is managed and how they sell tickets, we have definitely not been ignored by the league.

gtaguy
10-19-2010, 08:30 PM
I have been keeping mum about all the ongoings lately however we must all choose who we are attacking.
its a double edged sword and it all comes down to wanting to slay the ml$e dragron and not the MLS entity.
If Ml$E got it right the first time we would not be fighting the MLS which we aren't .
I agree in a certain way with Garber we can't fuck up the mls final.
But we are all so heart broken that we dare to slay not only ml$e but also the mls..
Glad that garber sees it not as a spite to the league but as a pitch fork thrown straight at our local owners.
Garber knows that Toronto is a sports centric city and our devotion to the sport and league is immesurable.
Garber as much of a prick he might seem is a true nice guy and This league is growing by strides and bounds only to get better in the future. the MLS does not deserve our backlash becuase our owners are total shitheads..

grizzle
10-19-2010, 08:38 PM
Why does the Cup game travel anyway... they should just let the team with the best season record host it or something or if it must travel put it in a city in between the two finalists..

ExiledRed
10-19-2010, 09:04 PM
I know that Seattle has had a better winning record than us, all I am saying is if they were out the playoffs most Seattle fans would still go and show there passion for their club.

Good for them.

Didn't they get their tickets free in the package, or were they charged a mandatory $90 too?

Seattle got a big name in their first season, despite not needing one to sell tickets. They got a friendly against a big name team in their season seat package, and they made the playoffs both seasons.

In Tom's words 'Apples and Oranges'

Heathen
10-19-2010, 09:07 PM
I know that Seattle has had a better winning record than us, all I am saying is if they were out the playoffs most Seattle fans would still go and show there passion for their club.

Why don't you marry Seattle :tongue:

Canary Canuck
10-19-2010, 09:07 PM
Why does the Cup game travel anyway... they should just let the team with the best season record host it or something or if it must travel put it in a city in between the two finalists..

Totally agree!! With more and more teams in their own stadiums where they control the dates this should happen. Either the higher seed hosts a single game final or have a two leg final home and away.

ensco
10-19-2010, 10:14 PM
Fascinating that the Don suddenly materialized in town.

I just don't see any point in directing anger at the MLS Cup game. Who really has a beef with MLS?

Oldtimer
10-19-2010, 10:25 PM
Garber is our ally.

He can put the pressure on Anselmi & Co. to keep us happy.

Don't think that he doesn't care about what we think. We mean a lot to the league and its credibility.

I'm sure Tom has already had some uncomfortable conversations with him, already.

DichioTFC
10-19-2010, 10:39 PM
^ Beg to differ OT

Garber is as much part of the problem as MLSE. The commercials in the States for MLS have *every team* scoring on us pretty much. They show RPB in passing (particularly with the dreaded streamers that they'll use as a marketing tool for their own product but will ban us from using because they already have enough stock footage) and with quick cuts so it looks like we're part of some menagerie of "MLS supporters".

TFC is widely considered a joke because MLS has marketed the team in that way. They show Beckham in a Galaxy kit, Ljungberg in a Sounders kit, Kamara in a Wizards outfit celebrating a goal, some douchebag Fire and Crew players celebrating. And they show DeRo... but in a Houston kit. In their commercials, we get scored on again.. and again.. and again. Articles about our team successes are never on the front page of the MLS website, but our failures are headline news. Anything we do that's positive is spun as a metaphor for how great this fucking league is (we have kids graduating from the Academy: "look at the growth of soccer in America"). Garber is wholeheartedly responsible for this. He's neglected this market, our market, and I'm very happy the crown jewel of his project will suffer.

I think Garber and Anselmi are on the exact same page, how could they not be? They're probably busy sucking each other off right now (with Barry McLean holding the flip cam). I think Anselmi asked Garber to talk at us, hoping for some kind of "OMG, the PRESIDENT of MLS Soccer is like talking about US!!!! <3" reaction.

Garber doesn't give a shit about TFC but will use us to compliment how great his league is ("look at how huge MLS is! it's even in Canada!").

The only person whose bullshit I'm more tired of than Anselmi is Garber.

Beach_Red
10-19-2010, 10:47 PM
Fascinating that the Don suddenly materialized in town.

I just don't see any point in directing anger at the MLS Cup game. Who really has a beef with MLS?

In some ways MLS is a side effect here. It looks like there are a lot of people not renewing seasons tickets for next year - who knows how big a factor the inclusion of the MLS Cup is in that decision? - so ticket sales for the cup game are low.

Do you think Garber may be asking MLSE how come they have done zero advertising for this game?

prizby
10-19-2010, 10:48 PM
Garber is our ally.

He can put the pressure on Anselmi & Co. to keep us happy.

Don't think that he doesn't care about what we think. We mean a lot to the league and its credibility.

I'm sure Tom has already had some uncomfortable conversations with him, already.

Garber can shove his $3mil/yr contract up his ass. (I don't actually mean that, but I have been waiting for someone to say it)

What I actually think is:

You would think he would have had some influence like FIFA did with South Korea in 02...catch my drift

It was quite the opposite

I can't count the number of times I felt the ref was playing footsies with the other team. I made a big long angry post about the refereeing in this league and how we get the short end of the stick about a month ago, which was some how moved into a post game discussion for whatever stupid reason...i am not saying we would have made the playoffs, but we probably lost net 7 or 8 points this season on ghost calls etc.

Had we been closer in the race at the beginning of October, who knows what could have happened (probably same last game disappointment)

Auzzy
10-19-2010, 10:52 PM
If they have ANY brains, they better do some serious promotion of this game. Like for example, 50 random fans who attend the game, get next year's seasons tickets for free. (Not some joke like ONE person winning.)

ilikemusic
10-19-2010, 10:52 PM
"This is a successful market that has helped truly grow the credibility of this league globally," he said. "When we sit and talk about a U.S. World Cup bid (in 2022), we're going to sit and talk about why America is a soccer nation. And we're showing pictures of BMO Field. We're showing pictures of the Red Patch Boys."

http://tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=337974

Enjoy being a marketing tool?

I dont.

Fuck these idiots.

Every 'supporter' has meant nothing but a free advertising campaign to MLSE and its corporate sponsors since day one.

The writing was on the wall when after one or two home games BMO was already pumping out those ridiculous 'ultimate warrior' TFC ads.

Gixmo
10-19-2010, 11:05 PM
Garber is our ally.

He can put the pressure on Anselmi & Co. to keep us happy.

Don't think that he doesn't care about what we think. We mean a lot to the league and its credibility.

I'm sure Tom has already had some uncomfortable conversations with him, already.

Agreed, if anything the Soccer Don is on our side, an asset to say the least. He's simply seen the 'good in everyone' here.

How he feels about us after November is up for debate though.

rocker
10-19-2010, 11:07 PM
Uh, no!

I support TFC. Couldn't care less about MLS.

To me this shows a great lack of understanding of soccer support. Baseball fans will watch the World Series regardless of who's in it. Same with football fans and the Superbowl or hockey fans with the Stanley Cup finals. Soccer fans support their club, not the league.

really? So the Brits won't watch the FA Cup final unless their team is in it?

I support TFC. I care about MLS. I've watched the last 3 MLS Cups. It's entertaining stuff.

TFC07
10-19-2010, 11:16 PM
^ Beg to differ OT

Garber is as much part of the problem as MLSE. The commercials in the States for MLS have *every team* scoring on us pretty much. They show RPB in passing (particularly with the dreaded streamers that they'll use as a marketing tool for their own product but will ban us from using because they already have enough stock footage) and with quick cuts so it looks like we're part of some menagerie of "MLS supporters".

TFC is widely considered a joke because MLS has marketed the team in that way. They show Beckham in a Galaxy kit, Ljungberg in a Sounders kit, Kamara in a Wizards outfit celebrating a goal, some douchebag Fire and Crew players celebrating. And they show DeRo... but in a Houston kit. In their commercials, we get scored on again.. and again.. and again. Articles about our team successes are never on the front page of the MLS website, but our failures are headline news. Anything we do that's positive is spun as a metaphor for how great this fucking league is (we have kids graduating from the Academy: "look at the growth of soccer in America"). Garber is wholeheartedly responsible for this. He's neglected this market, our market, and I'm very happy the crown jewel of his project will suffer.

I think Garber and Anselmi are on the exact same page, how could they not be? They're probably busy sucking each other off right now (with Barry McLean holding the flip cam). I think Anselmi asked Garber to talk at us, hoping for some kind of "OMG, the PRESIDENT of MLS Soccer is like talking about US!!!! <3" reaction.

Garber doesn't give a shit about TFC but will use us to compliment how great his league is ("look at how huge MLS is! it's even in Canada!").

The only person whose bullshit I'm more tired of than Anselmi is Garber.

Some people wonder why some TFC fans (like myself) don't like MLS and American soccer.

We're guests in this league that makes a lot of money for MLS (MLS gets small percentage of ticket sales) unlike most of US teams. MLS is turning into NHL! Just watch Vancouver and Montreal getting same treatment from MLS as well.

TFC07
10-19-2010, 11:17 PM
"This is a successful market that has helped truly grow the credibility of this league globally," he said. "When we sit and talk about a U.S. World Cup bid (in 2022), we're going to sit and talk about why America is a soccer nation. And we're showing pictures of BMO Field. We're showing pictures of the Red Patch Boys."

http://tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=337974

Enjoy being a marketing tool?

I dont.

Fuck these idiots.

Really? How much fuel do they have to give to us (or at least for some of us) to hate US soccer and MLS even more?

Flipityflu
10-19-2010, 11:21 PM
i'd be curious to know what Garber is saying behind the scenes.

Toronto_Bhoy
10-19-2010, 11:21 PM
Garber is our ally.

He can put the pressure on Anselmi & Co. to keep us happy.

Don't think that he doesn't care about what we think. We mean a lot to the league and its credibility.

I'm sure Tom has already had some uncomfortable conversations with him, already.

Oldtimer, do you really believe MLSE care what Don Garber thinks when it comes to their bottom line?

Darlofletch
10-19-2010, 11:27 PM
Is anyone else sick of the constant "best fans in the league" talk. It's like the managers, coaches, players and everyone get media training and get told to mention that as much as possible. It's nice to be appreciated, and the sg's deserve props, but i can't stop myself eyerolling now whenever I hear that.

CretanBull
10-19-2010, 11:28 PM
"We didn't have the Red Patch Boys and groups like that before they came into the league," Garber said. "They created the supporter culture in Major League Soccer. That's pretty important and pretty historic."


Wow, what a slap in the face to the guys in DC.

Roogsy
10-19-2010, 11:41 PM
We can't complain about not getting attention from the league - for the last four years Garber has been all over TFC like a fat kid on a fudge sundae.

We got the All Star Game and also the MLS cup in our first four years. Regardless of how the club is managed and how they sell tickets, we have definitely not been ignored by the league.


Agreed.

Roogsy
10-19-2010, 11:42 PM
Is anyone else sick of the constant "best fans in the league" talk. It's like the managers, coaches, players and everyone get media training and get told to mention that as much as possible. It's nice to be appreciated, and the sg's deserve props, but i can't stop myself eyerolling now whenever I hear that.


I am tired of it in regards to them sucking us off every time they want to sell something but when it comes down to crunch time and coming through for all fans at BMO Field, we get price hikes.

They're all talking out of both sides of their mouth. Actions people. We need your words to be backed up by actions.

Roogsy
10-19-2010, 11:43 PM
Oldtimer, do you really believe MLSE care what Don Garber thinks when it comes to their bottom line?


I think they care what their business partner has to say yes. MLS owns half of TFC remember.

Roogsy
10-19-2010, 11:45 PM
Good for them.

Didn't they get their tickets free in the package, or were they charged a mandatory $90 too?

Seattle got a big name in their first season, despite not needing one to sell tickets. They got a friendly against a big name team in their season seat package, and they made the playoffs both seasons.

In Tom's words 'Apples and Oranges'


Oh snap! Case closed on that one.

RedRum
10-19-2010, 11:51 PM
Wow, what a slap in the face to the guys in DC.

No kidding. Slap in the face to Section 8 Chicago as well - those guys have helped us more than most people will ever know. What an asshole-ish thing to say.

DichioTFC
10-19-2010, 11:52 PM
Is anyone else sick of the constant "best fans in the league" talk. It's like the managers, coaches, players and everyone get media training and get told to mention that as much as possible. It's nice to be appreciated, and the sg's deserve props, but i can't stop myself eyerolling now whenever I hear that.

The other "best fans in the league"
Seattle: http://myseattlesports.com/sounders-fc/2nd-best-fans-in-mls

Chicago / Colorado / Columbus / DC / New England: http://thesoccerist.com/2010/08/04/which-mls-fans-are-the-most-loyal/ (with statistical proof about loyalty! :facepalm:)

DC / TFC: http://www.fansonline.net/mls/mb/view.php?id=59

RSL: http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=4103546 ("As Real Salt Lake wraps up the 2010 regular season and gets ready for the playoffs, we want to recognize the continued support over the past 6 years of the BEST fans in MLS")

SJ / DC: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5274913

Seattle: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101005205412AAglQjC (on Yahoo answers, no less!)

NYRB: http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Article/Fantasy-League-Soccer-021242813084697

Seattle: http://backpost.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/seattle-0-real-salt-lake-0-mls-suffers-midweek-goal-drought/ ("
Before we get to the game, let’s say this: Seattle fans are the best fans in Major League Soccer.
There are plenty of other excellent fan bases out there—the ones in Chicago, Toronto, and DC come to mind—but Seattle has the best, and really, it’s not even close.")


SJ: http://mls.theoffside.com/major-league-soccer/mls-first-kick-2009.html (Saturday, March 28, 2008
San Jose Earthquakes at D.C. United – the black and red open their stadium, welcoming back the league’s best fans.)


Philly: http://www.the700level.com/2009/06/is-major-league-soccer-ready-for-philly.html


Portland (!): http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2010/07/commissioner_doug_garber_discu.html


New England (from 2000, but still): http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/mls/2000/mls_preview/news/2000/03/09/revolution_preview/ (Sat., April 15: The league's best fans have to wait a month for the home opener against champs D.C. United)


Columbus: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2008/10/01/arace01.ART_ART_10-01-08_C1_H3BFPSO.html?sid=101 (the Crew has some of the best fans in the league...)


" 'Toronto have the “Best Fans in the World Ever in History' says Don Garber" (http://chicago.theoffside.com/off-the-field/toronto-have-the-best-fans-in-the-world-ever-in-history-says-don-garber-and-fire-fans-fear-to-enter.html)


" 'Security, please remove one of the best fans in all of North America and all of sport and all of humanity and the afterlife from the room' says Tom Anselmi"(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZgnWJJC5sg)




Point being, if you believe TFC have the best fans in MLS, you're an idiot.

Roogsy
10-19-2010, 11:55 PM
^ Yeah, it's all just blowing sunshine up people's asses so they do as you want them to do. When he goes to DC, I am sure he says the same thing. Being commissioner also means being a politicians. I don't get worked up over it and I don't consider it important.

But when OUR guys, our owners say it, I hold them to it. If we are the "best fans" in the league or in the city or whatever, treat us as such and don't hike prices unfairly. End of story.

craz11
10-20-2010, 12:11 AM
For those of you supporting the MLS Cup, you are in essence supporting MLSE.

MLS Cup is the BIGGEST way we can send a message to MLSE. The message states:

1. We will NOT be marketing tool pawns (see Garber's own words, "For a US 2022 World Cup bid we're showing picture of the Red Patch Boys")

2. We will NO LONGER tolerate being gouged for season ticket prices.

3. We will NOT STAND FOR mistreatment by MLSE, the owners of our MLS club.

The only way to really send this message is through MLS Cup. The only thing the Town Hall Meetings have shown us is that MLSE really doesn't give a shit and is just going through the motions in an effort to "appease the mob".

Tom A. we're not a bunch of fucking idiots. You're about to find that out.


I don't give a shit that Don Garber is an innocent bystander in this dispute. Other people will need to get "hurt". Boo-fucking-hoo. If we, as the Red Patch Boys, have been so good for the league, he can cut us some fucking slack in this.

I hope BMO is empty for the MLS Cup. That's the ultimate egg on MLSE's face, and they'll really have some explaining to do to Garber and the league.

DichioTFC
10-20-2010, 12:25 AM
For those of you supporting the MLS Cup, you are in essence supporting MLSE.

MLS Cup is the BIGGEST way we can send a message to MLSE. The message states:

1. We will NOT be marketing tool pawns (see Garber's own words, "For a US 2022 World Cup bid we're showing picture of the Red Patch Boys")

2. We will NO LONGER tolerate being gouged for season ticket prices.

3. We will NOT STAND FOR mistreatment by MLSE, the owners of our MLS club.

The only way to really send this message is through MLS Cup. The only thing the Town Hall Meetings have shown us is that MLSE really doesn't give a shit and is just going through the motions in an effort to "appease the mob".

Tom A. we're not a bunch of fucking idiots. You're about to find that out.


I don't give a shit that Don Garber is an innocent bystander in this dispute. Other people will need to get "hurt". Boo-fucking-hoo. If we, as the Red Patch Boys, have been so good for the league, he can cut us some fucking slack in this.

I hope BMO is empty for the MLS Cup. That's the ultimate egg on MLSE's face, and they'll really have some explaining to do to Garber and the league.

Big statements from someone who A. isn't an RPB member and B. has probably never volunteered to help the group or made a banner or waved a flag to align themselves as RPB.

craz11
10-20-2010, 12:39 AM
Big statements from someone who A. isn't an RPB member and B. has probably never volunteered to help the group or made a banner or waved a flag to align themselves as RPB.

Wow. Who the fuck are you? Where were you in the first 2 seasons? I haven't had the time to commit to the group the past 2 years, that doesn't make me any less RPB than you.

Where were you year 1? Did you go down to DC for MLS Cup in 2007? Ask anyone about the Total TFC podcast I used to do. I don't have time for any of this shit at the moment. This doesn't make me any less of a supporter. It doesn't mean I'm getting gouged any less than you are.

Pretty bold of you to go running your mouth like this.

DichioTFC
10-20-2010, 12:44 AM
Maybe you should've found the time to pony up a membership fee.


doesn't make me any less RPB than you.


craz11 (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=522)
Registered User

DichioTFC (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=16049)
RPB Member

looks a bit different to me... hope you find time for your anti-MLSE revolution, Che Guevara

DichioTFC
10-20-2010, 12:46 AM
*edit* removed inane name-calling bullshit that detracts from the whole point of things.

Something about me twisting my ankle for jumping on the bandwagon, because my RPB membership join date says May 2009?

spark
10-20-2010, 06:12 AM
really? So the Brits won't watch the FA Cup final unless their team is in it?

Haha I bet there are supporters who don't even watch the FA Cup when their team is in it!! That's how far that competition has fallen!

H Bomb
10-20-2010, 06:51 AM
Maybe you should've found the time to pony up a membership fee.



craz11 (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=522)
Registered User

DichioTFC (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=16049)
RPB Member

looks a bit different to me... hope you find time for your anti-MLSE revolution, Che Guevara

And people say there is a holier than thou attitude in this place sometimes. I wonder where that could come from. Pull your head out boy.

Roogsy
10-20-2010, 06:53 AM
:topic:



Alright, let's get back to the issue of the MLS Cup.

ensco
10-20-2010, 07:03 AM
I think people are overreacting to what Garber said. He came up here, I'm guessing, because he's seriously worried and was trying to say nice things about the people here.

It's a positive sign that the protests are working. He shouldn't have had to come. MLSE are taking credibility hits with the league office.

For those with the complaint that "the league are marketing off our backs but don't take us seriously", I just don't think that comes anywhere close to the issues we have with MLSE.

Mixing an anti-MLS message in dilutes the overall impact, and reduces the likelihood of accomplishing anything.

It just makes everyone here look mad, impossible to please, and spiteful.

My $0.02.

H Bomb
10-20-2010, 07:05 AM
I think it's funny. The MLS seems to understand more than TFC what's going on here. And Garber sees that they will be punished for TFC's mistakes. But that makes sense as we (fans) have been punished for every misktake TFC has ever made. The team just pushes all its burdens onto us, so this one we'll push one step further. I may end up going to the game, but queitly no doubt, and wearing green. Should be interesting.


Also could someone change the thread title. Implorer sounds like something from inner space.

maninb
10-20-2010, 07:30 AM
I know that Seattle has had a better winning record than us, all I am saying is if they were out the playoffs most Seattle fans would still go and show there passion for their club.

LMAO!! Surely you jest....They be just as pissed as we are if they had scumbags likes MLSE as owners....

Beach_Red
10-20-2010, 07:34 AM
I think people are overreacting to what Garber said. He came up here, I'm guessing, because he's seriously worried and was trying to say nice things about the people here.

It just makes everyone here look mad, impossible to please, and spiteful.

My $0.02.

Yes, but MLS and MLSE are partners in TFC and the MLS Cup game isn't being sold the same way here as it was in Seattle, so MLS isn't treating all the partners the same.

Do you think MLSE had to clear their plan with MLS?

maninb
10-20-2010, 07:36 AM
Garber can shove his $3mil/yr contract up his ass. (I don't actually mean that, but I have been waiting for someone to say it)

What I actually think is:

You would think he would have had some influence like FIFA did with South Korea in 02...catch my drift

It was quite the opposite

I can't count the number of times I felt the ref was playing footsies with the other team. I made a big long angry post about the refereeing in this league and how we get the short end of the stick about a month ago, which was some how moved into a post game discussion for whatever stupid reason...i am not saying we would have made the playoffs, but we probably lost net 7 or 8 points this season on ghost calls etc.

Had we been closer in the race at the beginning of October, who knows what could have happened (probably same last game disappointment)

I think you're on to something....Haven't seen the stats from this year, but for years 1-3 didn't we have the most penalties and fouls called against us, and the least penalties given (or very close to it)...as long as all the refs are American we'll NEVER be given a fair shake in this league...

Hooligan69
10-20-2010, 07:40 AM
"This is a successful market that has helped truly grow the credibility of this league globally," he said. "When we sit and talk about a U.S. World Cup bid (in 2022), we're going to sit and talk about why America is a soccer nation. And we're showing pictures of BMO Field. We're showing pictures of the Red Patch Boys."

Except BMO Field is in Canada and those TFC supporters are Canadian, you thick fuck!

Oldtimer
10-20-2010, 07:46 AM
You would think he would have had some influence like FIFA did with South Korea in 02...catch my drift

It was quite the opposite


MLS has no control over the refs, which are appointed by US Soccer and the CSA as part of their arrangement to sanction the league.

You don't think the Don has done anything for us? What about the mystery of Stefan Frei being left as a Generation Adidas player that doesn't count against the cap, even though every GA player in the past with his playing time would have "graduated."

Our problem is that Mo was so incompetent, he couldn't make good use of the cap space opened up by that move (he used it to sign Mista).

Don't take Don's public statements seriously. Every ownership group that bids on a franchise is "amazing." As DichioTFC has pointed out, every city has "great support." I'm pretty sure he's here because he is concerned about how ML$E has mismanaged the MLS Cup seat sales process, and is trying to work with them on solutions.


i'd be curious to know what Garber is saying behind the scenes.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure what he says in private will be quite different than what he says in public.

Belfast_Boy
10-20-2010, 08:00 AM
I think it's funny. The MLS seems to understand more than TFC what's going on here. And Garber sees that they will be punished for TFC's mistakes. But that makes sense as we (fans) have been punished for every misktake TFC has ever made. The team just pushes all its burdens onto us, so this one we'll push one step further. I may end up going to the game, but queitly no doubt, and wearing green. Should be interesting.


Also could someone change the thread title. Implorer sounds like something from inner space.

good idea Matt!

Don isn't our friend. if he's worried about us and our actions it's for same reason ML$E is, MONEY!

I don't have a ticket, but if I did I'd either boycott or do as Matt is suggesting.

earlier in the thread someone said something about going to the game and being a good supporter. the reason that we are doing this is because we are good supporters. we want what's better for our team and for football in Toronto.

ManUtd4ever
10-20-2010, 08:07 AM
Fascinating that the Don suddenly materialized in town.

I just don't see any point in directing anger at the MLS Cup game. Who really has a beef with MLS?


Garber is our ally.

He can put the pressure on Anselmi & Co. to keep us happy.

Don't think that he doesn't care about what we think. We mean a lot to the league and its credibility.

I'm sure Tom has already had some uncomfortable conversations with him, already.

Agreed...

Hooligan69
10-20-2010, 08:11 AM
Garber just wants a full house for the MLS Cup. He doesn't give a toss about anything else.

maximo_rpd
10-20-2010, 08:14 AM
... we must all choose who we are attacking.
its a double edged sword and it all comes down to wanting to slay the ml$e dragron and not the MLS entity...

I agree in a certain way with Garber we can't fuck up the mls final.
But we are all so heart broken that we dare to slay not only ml$e but also the mls..
Glad that garber sees it not as a spite to the league but as a pitch fork thrown straight at our local owners.
... the MLS does not deserve our backlash becuase our owners are total shitheads..

Oh poor, poor, poor mls - I feel so sorry for them. sniff, lets give them a group hug - fuckin not! Applying pressure to mls is working - we will probably get a better package offer yet from ml$e - If so, you can probably thank Don Garber for picking up the phone and explaining to these ml$e dweebs the facts of life. If we don't get a better package then I don't renew and then why would I give a flying fart if MLS gets hit in the crossfire - I have already been bent over and been hosed by the "darling" of the league... Revenge is a dish best eaten cold - and it is going to be very cold on November 21st... and I am hungry!

Taking out the MLS Cup is the final move on this chess board, but it is Tommy A's turn right now... this could move in a more postive direction if he does something significant - Up to you Tommy....

"There is only one thing worse than a spurned woman - a spurned Toronto FC Fan!!!!!!"

Oldtimer
10-20-2010, 08:15 AM
Garber said that one of the mistakes was raising ticket prices, which have almost doubled since the club's first season.
“They made a mistake,” and the team is “working to address it,” he said.
The Don's got my respect here.

Although its not a direct quote, note he didn't say that one of the mistakes was including the CCL tickets in the ST package. It was raising prices.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/878134--tfc-made-mistakes-league-boss-garber-says

Don't kid yourself. The Don realizes how important Toronto supporters and fans are, even if greedy ML$E can't see beyond short-term $$$. He doesn't want to kill the goose.


As the banner said some seasons back, Beckham didn't save MLS, we did.


steps are being taken to address the on-field and off-field misplays.

I'd love to be a "fly on the wall" in those uncomfortable meetings he's holding with ML$E brass.

__wowza
10-20-2010, 08:33 AM
if anyone here believes that don garber isn't holding a meeting with MLSE execs saying, "look, we have the potential for the BIGGEST MLS FINAL YET between new york and LA, i don't care what you do, just fill the fucking seats! i'll do my best, now you do yours"

then you're fucking kidding yourself. this man is a politician, yeah, but he's also a businessman.

Beach_Red
10-20-2010, 08:39 AM
The Don's got my respect here.

Although its not a direct quote, note he didn't say that one of the mistakes was including the CCL tickets in the ST package. It was raising prices.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/878134--tfc-made-mistakes-league-boss-garber-says

Don't kid yourself. The Don realizes how important Toronto supporters and fans are, even if greedy ML$E can't see beyond short-term $$$. He doesn't want to kill the goose.


As the banner said some seasons back, Beckham didn't save MLS, we did.



I'd love to be a "fly on the wall" in those uncomfortable meetings he's holding with ML$E brass.


He gets half a point for platitudes - he doesn't get respect until he actually gets something done.

And yeah, I'd like to hear that conversation, too, because MLS had a lot to do with the "mis-steps" of TFC, from recommending the GM to not requiring that any more front office personel be hired. Make no mistake, TFC was run by MLS, even last week MLSE was still saying they'd be asking the league to help them find a new GM (though since then, it's true, the talk has all been about the mystery consultants).

Roogsy
10-20-2010, 08:42 AM
He gets half a point for platitudes - he doesn't get respect until he actually gets something done.

Here here!

Oldtimer
10-20-2010, 08:44 AM
if anyone here believes that don garber isn't holding a meeting with MLSE execs saying, "look, we have the potential for the BIGGEST MLS FINAL YET between new york and LA, i don't care what you do, just fill the fucking seats! i'll do my best, now you do yours"

then you're fucking kidding yourself. this man is a politician, yeah, but he's also a businessman.

Exactly. Imagine the "big game" on US TV, huge exposure, and the stadium half-empty!

MLS has majority ownership in all MLS clubs, including TFC. If ML$E screws up enough, they can force them to do the right thing.

That's why Don's conversations with Anselmi will carry a lot of weight.

Roogsy
10-20-2010, 08:49 AM
I would hope the words "whatever you gotta do" get spoken at these meetings. Something like "whatever you gotta do, make the fans happy" is something that should have been on their minds from the beginning and MLSE has forgotten that they are actually catering to CUSTOMERS not hostages.

I think the time has come to have one single demand from the fans to MLSE. In my opinion, a reasonable compromise would be a price freeze for 3 years.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-20-2010, 08:51 AM
Fascinating that the Don suddenly materialized in town.

I just don't see any point in directing anger at the MLS Cup game. Who really has a beef with MLS?

my sentiments exactly

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 08:57 AM
I think the time has come to have one single demand from the fans to MLSE. In my opinion, a reasonable compromise would be a price freeze for 3 years.

Seriously?

It's delusional to say that with everything that's transpired, it's reasonable to ask that they freeze prices for the next three years (by which time we could be in the final and have Didier Drogba and Frank fucking Lampard playing as our DPs, theoretically).

To cover the cost of inflation over that period, you'd have to hike prices at least a little each year or freeze years 1 and 2 and raise a lot in year 3.

Also, don't forget who owns the team.

eustacchio
10-20-2010, 09:01 AM
"This is a successful market that has helped truly grow the credibility of this league globally," he said. "When we sit and talk about a U.S. World Cup bid (in 2022), we're going to sit and talk about why America is a soccer nation. And we're showing pictures of BMO Field. We're showing pictures of the Red Patch Boys."

http://tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=337974

Enjoy being a marketing tool?

I dont.

Fuck these idiots.

So to illustrate 'why America is a soccer nation" for an American WC bid they're showing pictures of a Canadian team and Canadian supporters?

__wowza
10-20-2010, 09:09 AM
i posted this on a few CBC articles



a little history lesson for everyone here:

we were once given the all-star game. these tickets weren't included in our seasons ticket packages. MLSE said, "hey, you don't have to buy them, but if you want to buy them, you get first dibs!"

so we sold out the stadium.

this year MLSE said, "hey, we got you the cup game! we're going to increase your ticket price without any justification in the meantime. as for the cup, well, this time you don't have a choice!"

the problem that many of the season seat holders have is that this is being forced on them, and knowing that it'll lead to this becoming a standard practice on top of steadily increasing price freeze. let's look elsewhere in the league..

REAL SALT LAKE (MLS Champions 2009): SSH PRICE FREEZE
NYRB (new stadium / 2 world class DPs / winning team): SSH PRICE FREEZE
DC UNITED: SSH PRICE DECREASE
SAN JOSE: SSH PRICE DECREASE (+ added free parking)

a potential boycott would be directed in attention to this. as for saying it would be meaningless as we already have paid for tickets, imagine turning on ANY final in a major league event and seeing the stadium half empty.

would you not question why that was?
would you not feel embarrassed for the organization hosting it?
yeah, well it's sort've like that.


i've got some bad news don.. ML$E shot themselves in the foot, which is kind've hard to do when they've already put their foot in their mouth.


you're throwing a facebook event, and everyone's attendance listed as "maybe". i think it's about time you look look into pressuring ML$E into making this a free-of-charge event for the dedicated fans they've robbed so hard as a thank you for sticking with us and being "the best fans in the league".

someone, anyone, show us that this isn't about the money!

ensco
10-20-2010, 09:12 AM
Yes, but MLS and MLSE are partners in TFC and the MLS Cup game isn't being sold the same way here as it was in Seattle, so MLS isn't treating all the partners the same.
Do you think MLSE had to clear their plan with MLS?

I don't, because MLSE's plan was, and remains, inexplicable. There is no rational explanation for it. I mean, come on, there were at least 3,000 empty seats for the opener against Seattle. In April!

Based on what I have read in the posts here, MLSE have repeated absurdity after absurdity in defence of the price increase in the town halls. "Prices were too low historically" is my favorite. A close second is "it's only a dollar or two". Bundling the MLS Cup game compounds the insult.

If MLSE execs had asked anybody about this: Don Garber, or anyone else, it doesn't matter, they would have all said the same thing to them: wow, aren't you pushing the market way too hard with that plan?

Azerban
10-20-2010, 09:13 AM
So to illustrate 'why America is a soccer nation" for an American WC bid they're showing pictures of a Canadian team and Canadian supporters?

dont say anything let them do this

it will be entertaining to point out later

Roogsy
10-20-2010, 09:14 AM
Seriously?

It's delusional to say that with everything that's transpired, it's reasonable to ask that they freeze prices for the next three years (by which time we could be in the final and have Didier Drogba and Frank fucking Lampard playing as our DPs, theoretically).

To cover the cost of inflation over that period, you'd have to hike prices at least a little each year or freeze years 1 and 2 and raise a lot in year 3.

Also, don't forget who owns the team.


It's not delusional. The hiked prices 75-100% over 3 years, indicating inflation factors little in their pricing model.

There are people asking for free MLS Cup games, price rollbacks, member-only sections. Of all these demands, a price freeze is in fact the most reasonable and reachable by MLSE. There is no reason for MLSE to cry poor. They will still be making money. Something other owners wish they could be doing even now, 15 years into the league.

maximo_rpd
10-20-2010, 09:22 AM
Big statements from someone who A. isn't an RPB member and B. has probably never volunteered to help the group or made a banner or waved a flag to align themselves as RPB.

Ooooof! I think that one might have been a bit below the belt... Probably better to concentrate on MLSE here...

Beach_Red
10-20-2010, 09:27 AM
If MLSE execs had asked anybody about this: Don Garber, or anyone else, it doesn't matter, they would have all said the same thing to them: wow, aren't you pushing the market way too hard with that plan?

Yes, that's true, it's unbelievable the way they've treated this market, the way they haven't seemed to have noticed what's been going on this whole season how more and more people are just losing interest.

A lot of peple predicted a drop-off once the novelty wore off - that's to be expected in most things, really, but these guys seem to have been oblivious.

All season long there have been more and more seats empty for games. Many people around me were giving the team, "one more year" from the second season and this really was it. Adding the MLS Cup was the final push for anyone who was undecided about renewing.

It would be interesting to see how the renewals are really going. Town halls with the VP and now the commish is in town, hat in hand, begging, blowing sunshine?

And are single tickets for just the MLS Cup game even on sale yet?

Pyeddo
10-20-2010, 09:28 AM
Ooooof! I think that one might have been a bit below the belt... Probably better to concentrate on MLSE here...

RPB, non-RPB... regardless.... what I DO know is that DichioTFC came off like a mega-douche with that comment

eustacchio
10-20-2010, 09:30 AM
Yes, that's true, it's unbelievable the way they've treated this market, the way they haven't seemed to have noticed what's been going on this whole season how more and more people are just losing interest.

A lot of peple predicted a drop-off once the novelty wore off - that's to be expected in most things, really, but these guys seem to have been oblivious.

All season long there have been more and more seats empty for games. Many people around me were giving the team, "one more year" from the second season and this really was it. Adding the MLS Cup was the final push for anyone who was undecided about renewing.

It would be interesting to see how the renewals are really going. Town halls with the VP and now the commish is in town, hat in hand, begging, blowing sunshine?

And are single tickets for just the MLS Cup game even on sale yet?

They'd almost have to wait until after the renewals, no?

Beach_Red
10-20-2010, 09:44 AM
They'd almost have to wait until after the renewals, no?


That must be why the panic is setting in. Renewals are way down and there isn't much time to market the game.

Pigfynn
10-20-2010, 09:45 AM
Garber is our ally.

He can put the pressure on Anselmi & Co. to keep us happy.

Don't think that he doesn't care about what we think. We mean a lot to the league and its credibility.

I'm sure Tom has already had some uncomfortable conversations with him, already.

YES^^

ExiledRed
10-20-2010, 09:49 AM
Garber should be imploring the fans of the qualifying teams to attend, and doing everything he can to ensure those fans have adequate transport and enough tickets that are in a designated area.

Imagine if they held the UEFA CL final at Old Trafford and then sold all the supporter seats to Manchester utd SSH, even though the final was between Inter Milan and Barcelona.

Would the Manchester Utd fans be blamed for poor attendance and not really providing an atmosphere?

Nope, Blatter would be hauled over the coals, thats what would happen.

Redcoe15
10-20-2010, 09:52 AM
I bet Garber and MLS wishes it had awarded this year's MLS Cup to New York instead of Toronto.

Imagine having the teams of the two biggest media markets in the U.S., Los Angeles and hometown New York, with names like Donovan, Beckham, Henry, playing for the championship in front of a probable sold out Red Bull Arena.

Now imagine these two same teams playing in BMO Field that is half empty due to the cynical greed created by ML$E, and how that would come across throughout North America.

Is it any wonder Garber's trying to give a rimjob to Toronto right now?

ElvistheEvilScotsman
10-20-2010, 09:53 AM
They are screwed on filling the stadium for the cup with actual footie fans. Season ticket renewals are dismal. MLSE execs decided not to spend on advertising ticket sales to the match by assuming we the season ticket holders would foot the bill. What a great way to increase your profits once again by not spending and putting all the weight on our shoulders.

With so little time left I wouldnt be surprised that MLSE eats crow and gives away the seats to all of their corporate sponsors as they wont want to admit failure to us.

Red Skies At Night
10-20-2010, 09:54 AM
how are TFC supporters supposed to prove they're so great? By showing up and cheering for a team that isn't TFC? Surely you jest...

And as for proving how great TFC supporters are, there is nothing more to be proved Don.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 10:05 AM
It's not delusional. The hiked prices 75-100% over 3 years, indicating inflation factors little in their pricing model.

There are people asking for free MLS Cup games, price rollbacks, member-only sections. Of all these demands, a price freeze is in fact the most reasonable and reachable by MLSE. There is no reason for MLSE to cry poor. They will still be making money. Something other owners wish they could be doing even now, 15 years into the league.

We sort of said the same thing, but differently.

I should've said "to cover inflation alone" since I was giving the most miniscule and likely irrelevant, decision-wise, example of the need to hike prices.

You're coming at this as an outsider, when to see how delusional the idea of a price-freeze is, you need to think like MLSE.

MLSE has said clearly the price increases were occurring because there were discrepancies in pricing between other BMO sections and stadia elsewhere in the league. If you're using that rationale, which requires really very little demonstrable proof, then instituting a price freeze is the last thing on their minds.

What you think is a rational compromise would to MLSE be absolute lunacy. And since they set the prices, it stands to reason that asking them for something they view as lunacy is delusional.

Pookie
10-20-2010, 11:34 AM
...
If MLSE execs had asked anybody about this: Don Garber, or anyone else, it doesn't matter, they would have all said the same thing to them: wow, aren't you pushing the market way too hard with that plan?

This is where I don't get the anger directed at Garber.

He may or may not be a friend but clearly, he is an ally for one simple reason. The MLS participates in revenue sharing and there are only about 3 teams that make a profit (TFC being one).

Protecting high profit margins in the face of declining volume (ie. ticket sales) is absurd.

A price correction that results in increased volume (ie. ticket sales) at lower margins can in fact be more profitable.

In it's first season (according to Forbes) TFC had revenues of $17M and an operating profit of $2.1M. This was a function of a sold out stadium, at year 1 prices and included no playoff or CCL dates.

Of course, it doesn't factor in the investment in grass and our wonderful DPs but it gives you a decent picture of what the team did.

This is the scenario facing TFC (and Garber):

1. Go back to year one prices with 1,400 new seats per game, expanded number of home games (that are near capacity given the prices), clean up your DP overspend and I'll bet this team still turns a tidy profit.

Or

2. Go forward with year 5 prices, a 75% renewal rate (being generous) or 4,000 fewer seats, extra home dates that draw 10,000 below capacity and I'll bet that we are looking for the red pen to highlight the operating income of TFC at the end of 2011.

This is a fact not lost on Garber as profit is tied to revenue sharing and TFC would no longer be subsidizing other teams in the league. We'd be in the line for hand outs.

jloome
10-20-2010, 11:37 AM
We sort of said the same thing, but differently.

I should've said "to cover inflation alone" since I was giving the most miniscule and likely irrelevant, decision-wise, example of the need to hike prices.

You're coming at this as an outsider, when to see how delusional the idea of a price-freeze is, you need to think like MLSE.

MLSE has said clearly the price increases were occurring because there were discrepancies in pricing between other BMO sections and stadia elsewhere in the league. If you're using that rationale, which requires really very little demonstrable proof, then instituting a price freeze is the last thing on their minds.

What you think is a rational compromise would to MLSE be absolute lunacy. And since they set the prices, it stands to reason that asking them for something they view as lunacy is delusional.

There's a lot of logical fallacy going on here. MLSE not accepting reality is not the same thing as that reality somehow being "delusional." That literally doesn't make sense.

Whether it's "the last thing on their minds" has nothing to do with its eventual viability given the facts at hand and the bargaining power of the purchasers. It just impacts the difficulty of eventually reaching that point.

Two different issues.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 11:42 AM
There's a lot of logical fallacy going on here. MLSE not accepting reality is not the same thing as that reality somehow being "delusional." That literally doesn't make sense.

Whether it's "the last thing on their minds" has nothing to do with its eventual viability given the facts at hand and the bargaining power of the purchasers. It just impacts the difficulty of eventually reaching that point.

Two different issues.

Re-read my post if you care, but I said the act of asking them is delusional, not the reality itself. Before this descends into metaphysics, let me restate clearly: you're nuts if you think that MLSE will freeze ticket prices for three years.

Roogsy
10-20-2010, 11:45 AM
Re-read my post if you care, but I said the act of asking them is delusional, not the reality itself. Before this descends into metaphysics, let me restate clearly: you're nuts if you think that MLSE will freeze ticket prices for three years.


I don't understand your point. You say a price freeze is impossible but you don't say why it's impossible other than MLSE doesn't want it. That does not provide evidence of the ability not to do it, only willingness.

I am sure MLSE doesn't "want" to deal with all this fan unrest but they have to. And they have to put in measures or it will get worse. So why exactly is a price freeze off the table as one of those measures to consider?

That you think it has a low likelihood of it happening is completely different from saying it's impossible for MLSE to do something.

Fort York Redcoat
10-20-2010, 11:51 AM
Re-read my post if you care, but I said the act of asking them is delusional, not the reality itself. Before this descends into metaphysics, let me restate clearly: you're nuts if you think that MLSE will freeze ticket prices for three years.


What's delusional is infinitely hoping for change and doing nothing about it. But way to chide people who try.

menefreghista
10-20-2010, 11:54 AM
Personally don't think we should be asking for a price freeze. People who aren't in the yellows or light greys should be asking for a price drop. The demand seems to call for it.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 11:57 AM
I don't understand your point. You say a price freeze is impossible but you don't say why it's impossible other than MLSE doesn't want it. That does not provide evidence of the ability not to do it, only willingness.

I am sure MLSE doesn't "want" to deal with all this fan unrest but they have to. And they have to put in measures or it will get worse. So why exactly is a price freeze off the table as one of those measures to consider?

That you think it has a low likelihood of it happening is completely different from saying it's impossible for MLSE to do something.

Never said it's impossible. I'm saying they won't do it. A three year price freeze on ANYTHING from groceries and gas to luxury boxes at the Leaf game is insane.

If you think the "fan unrest" is so enormous right now that MLSE will throw its business model to the wind, you're being delusional. I think I might've said that already.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 11:59 AM
What's delusional is infinitely hoping for change and doing nothing about it. But way to chide people who try.

How the fuck can demanding a three-year price freeze on tickets be called "trying?"

This is like saying I don't like paying taxes every year, so I'm going to call the government and ask that they put a moratorium in place for three years, until I feel I'm getting good value for my government dollars.

But thanks for pitching in. Just out of curiosity, do you have season seats? Have you renewed your tickets yet?

Boris
10-20-2010, 12:01 PM
What's delusional is infinitely hoping for change and doing nothing about it. But way to chide people who try.


How the fuck can demanding a three-year price freeze on tickets be called "trying?"

This is like saying I don't like paying taxes every year, so I'm going to call the government and ask that they put a moratorium in place for three years, until I feel I'm getting good value for my government dollars.

But thanks for pitching in. Just out of curiosity, do you have season seats? Have you renewed your tickets yet?

dont turn this into a back and forth....if you want to atleast do it in PM.

ExiledRed
10-20-2010, 12:10 PM
How the fuck can demanding a three-year price freeze on tickets be called "trying?"

This is like saying I don't like paying taxes every year, so I'm going to call the government and ask that they put a moratorium in place for three years, until I feel I'm getting good value for my government dollars.

But thanks for pitching in. Just out of curiosity, do you have season seats? Have you renewed your tickets yet?

The government analogy is moot, every citizen is obliged to pay taxes whatever they are. There is no option to opt out of the services taxes provide, and if there were, the government would be backpeddling too.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 12:23 PM
The government analogy is moot, every citizen is obliged to pay taxes whatever they are. There is no option to opt out of the services taxes provide, and if there were, the government would be backpeddling too.

It's not moot. If you want to attend TFC games, you have to pay for tickets, just as a person who wants to live in a country has to pay that country's taxes. Further, in the case of season ticket holders, there is no option to opt out of anything in the package.

It's actually quite an apt comparison, unless your definition of "moot" is different from what I generally understand the term to mean.

sashavukelich
10-20-2010, 12:29 PM
Uh, no!

I support TFC. Couldn't care less about MLS.

To me this shows a great lack of understanding of soccer support. Baseball fans will watch the World Series regardless of who's in it. Same with football fans and the Superbowl or hockey fans with the Stanley Cup finals. Soccer fans support their club, not the league.

this is an incredibly naive comment. We exist within the 'eco-system' of MLS, and if MLS benefits as a result so will TFC exposure and ultimately the product on the field from international recognition and investment.

TFC only exists because MLS exists...don't be silly folks.

GBV
10-20-2010, 12:30 PM
Why does the Cup game travel anyway... they should just let the team with the best season record host it or something or if it must travel put it in a city in between the two finalists..

I've been bitching about this forever.
It's supposed to be your "jewel" game ... put it in front of a crowd which has a rooting interest ferchrisakes. Sell the game AND the vibe.
A stadium of 75 per cent neutrals sells nothing but ho-hum.

sashavukelich
10-20-2010, 12:31 PM
I know that Seattle has had a better winning record than us, all I am saying is if they were out the playoffs most Seattle fans would still go and show there passion for their club.

i agree wholeheartedly. People here who just moan about TFC not getting the spotlight need to go to away games and realize how much affection there is for this club.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 12:46 PM
this is an incredibly naive comment. We exist within the 'eco-system' of MLS, and if MLS benefits as a result so will TFC exposure and ultimately the product on the field from international recognition and investment.

TFC only exists because MLS exists...don't be silly folks.

Right on the money. Moreover, given our current situation, this is a truly once-in-a-lifetime way to get your point across. No amount of green wearing or non-cheering will be as noticeable as a half-empty BMO Field during the MLS Cup Final.

You lot who've bought season tickets year in and year out have spent thousands of dollars on this team. Why would you not spend that $60 (if you're renewing), eat the MLS Cup ticket, do not resell it and leave your seat empty if you want to make a point?

brad
10-20-2010, 12:57 PM
In it's first season (according to Forbes) TFC had revenues of $17M and an operating profit of $2.1M. This was a function of a sold out stadium, at year 1 prices and included no playoff or CCL dates.

Of course, it doesn't factor in the investment in grass and our wonderful DPs but it gives you a decent picture of what the team did.


Wasn't the cost of the grass covered by money from the Edu transfer?

brad
10-20-2010, 12:59 PM
You lot who've bought season tickets year in and year out have spent thousands of dollars on this team. Why would you not spend that $60 (if you're renewing), eat the MLS Cup ticket, do not resell it and leave your seat empty if you want to make a point?

This is what I am doing.

I have no interest in watching the game.

Roogsy
10-20-2010, 12:59 PM
Wasn't the cost of the grass covered by money from the Edu transfer?


Not entirely.

Chevy
10-20-2010, 01:02 PM
I've been bitching about this forever.
It's supposed to be your "jewel" game ... put it in front of a crowd which has a rooting interest ferchrisakes. Sell the game AND the vibe.
A stadium of 75 per cent neutrals sells nothing but ho-hum.


The only problem with that is that you have a week (maybe two) to organize the match, all the bs that goes along with it and sell the tickets. Not many clubs could pull that off and get a decent showing.

What you could do is make the MLS Cup game a part of every team's season seat package, just in case it's hosted in your town. Now THERE's an idea!! :hide:

Oldtimer
10-20-2010, 01:11 PM
Right on the money. Moreover, given our current situation, this is a truly once-in-a-lifetime way to get your point across. No amount of green wearing or non-cheering will be as noticeable as a half-empty BMO Field during the MLS Cup Final.

You lot who've bought season tickets year in and year out have spent thousands of dollars on this team. Why would you not spend that $60 (if you're renewing), eat the MLS Cup ticket, do not resell it and leave your seat empty if you want to make a point?

MLS is not the enemy.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 01:15 PM
MLS is not the enemy.

Yep, they're the friend. They can exert additional pressure on MLSE. They'll only exert that pressure if their own interests are at risk of harm. That's why not going to the Cup game is so important.

ExiledRed
10-20-2010, 01:29 PM
It's not moot. If you want to attend TFC games, you have to pay for tickets, just as a person who wants to live in a country has to pay that country's taxes. Further, in the case of season ticket holders, there is no option to opt out of anything in the package.

It's actually quite an apt comparison, unless your definition of "moot" is different from what I generally understand the term to mean.

You're analogy is tenuous at best. There is a MASSIVE difference between being a citizen and being a customer.

Its simple and effective to cut ties with a service provider and say no more about it, when you're a customer. Unless youve signed a binding contract like a 3 year plan or something. Its perfectly legal to do this as a customer and often there are other options if you choose to.

You rarely get a choice of citizenship or residency, you live where you are, and thats defined by the course of your life, or id be in New Zealand right now. Its not legal to refuse to pay taxes and there is no ability to opt out of taxes.

If MLSE could put me in jail for not renewing, your analogy would hold some water.

Roogsy
10-20-2010, 01:30 PM
^ Bang on.

Jeffro
10-20-2010, 01:32 PM
Right on the money. Moreover, given our current situation, this is a truly once-in-a-lifetime way to get your point across. No amount of green wearing or non-cheering will be as noticeable as a half-empty BMO Field during the MLS Cup Final.

You lot who've bought season tickets year in and year out have spent thousands of dollars on this team. Why would you not spend that $60 (if you're renewing), eat the MLS Cup ticket, do not resell it and leave your seat empty if you want to make a point?

1, If you're in the South End, the cup ticket is $22

2, something tells me you don't own season tickets, which is strange considering how strongly you support an mls cup boycott you don't have tickets to. (correct me if I'm wrong)

You're making a lot of noise though about what is enough, what works and what doesn't. There were tons of tickets available last night if you wanted to help protest.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 01:42 PM
You're analogy is tenuous at best. There is a MASSIVE difference between being a citizen and being a customer.

Its simple and effective to cut ties with a service provider and say no more about it, when you're a customer. Unless youve signed a binding contract like a 3 year plan or something. Its perfectly legal to do this as a customer and often there are other options if you choose to.

You rarely get a choice of citizenship or residency, you live where you are, and thats defined by the course of your life, or id be in New Zealand right now. Its not legal to refuse to pay taxes and there is no ability to opt out of taxes.

If MLSE could put me in jail for not renewing, your analogy would hold some water.

Oh God -- If you don't pay for tickets, you're not going to be able to attend. If you don't pay taxes, you can't live in the country. MLSE has essentially a government-style monopoly on MLS football in this country. Cutting ties with this service provider means the end of the road in terms of attendance.

I really don't know what else to say. I'm done. Never mind.

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 01:44 PM
1, If you're in the South End, the cup ticket is $22

2, something tells me you don't own season tickets, which is strange considering how strongly you support an mls cup boycott you don't have tickets to. (correct me if I'm wrong)

You're making a lot of noise though about what is enough, what works and what doesn't. There were tons of tickets available last night if you wanted to help protest.

1 - you're right

2 - I don't, have a ransom pack, am on Gold list, and will not buy seasons if offered.

And I'm making noise because I love the team and I want TFC to be a successful team that I can afford to see live. I've been to every CCL game this season except last night. I also haven't agreed with the Wear Green protests so I would have just stayed silent. Didn't feel like paying for that in this particular instance.

Jeffro
10-20-2010, 02:10 PM
1 - you're right

2 - I don't, have a ransom pack, am on Gold list, and will not buy seasons if offered.

And I'm making noise because I love the team and I want TFC to be a successful team that I can afford to see live. I've been to every CCL game this season except last night. I also haven't agreed with the Wear Green protests so I would have just stayed silent. Didn't feel like paying for that in this particular instance.


I get it, I'm just saying you're asking others to sacrifice something that you don't have....

DangerRed
10-20-2010, 02:15 PM
I get it, I'm just saying you're asking others to sacrifice something that you don't have....

I'm asking others to sacrifice for what we all support.

And at the end of the day, I'm just one guy, you're right.

ExiledRed
10-20-2010, 02:17 PM
Oh God -- If you don't pay for tickets, you're not going to be able to attend. If you don't pay taxes, you can't live in the country.

wrong, they dont deport people for not paying taxes, nor do they cut their services.

If I dont pay taxes I go live in a canadian prison, lose my liberty for a length of time, and i have no choice in this.

If I dont pay for season tickets for TFC, I can watch them on TV, the internet or even fuck 'em all together. I even have the option of coming back and buying tickets for individual games, or getting season tickets again in if theyre available. It's my choice. and that choice allows me to influence the service, because I am a customer I can ask for a moratorium on price increases and threaten not to renew if they dont implement one.

Demanding a price freeze as a condition for renewal is nothing like refusing to pay taxes until services get better, because this isnt legal and its futile, given that you will never speak to an individual with the power to give what you're asking.

There is nothing to say that this kind of pressure on MLSE is futile, other than your dogmatic claims that 'they wont do it' and that its 'insane'


MLSE has essentially a government-style monopoly on MLS football in this country. Cutting ties with this service provider means the end of the road in terms of attendance.

I really don't know what else to say. I'm done. Never mind.

MLSE doesnt have a government style monopoly on MLS football in this country given that Montreal and Vancouver are entering the league, and even if they did, quietly accepting their price increases and tied sales because theyre the only MLS team in town is only going to exacerbate the situation.

Fort York Redcoat
10-20-2010, 02:24 PM
I'm asking others to sacrifice for what we all support.

And at the end of the day, I'm just one guy, you're right.


We just decided to sacrifice the way we usually support for a statement that took unity. It seems to me the folks that didn't renew are not doing so for very different reasons (value for dollar, apathy or this cause) You have a challenge ahead and not much time before the deadline to convince people.

trane
10-20-2010, 04:15 PM
My response, is FUCK YOU DON GARBER, I am not watching any more SOCCER. I had enough, I do not fucking like it. Keep it south of the border.

CSL it is. FORZA HAMILTON CROATIA. FORZA HNK HAMILTON.

sampace
10-20-2010, 07:57 PM
Discount the seats!

sampace
10-20-2010, 07:57 PM
Or better yet included in next season's renewel package!

scooterTFC
10-20-2010, 08:08 PM
Garber is just doing his job. If he was weak leader he would bailed on this PR visit to Toronto in midst of all the fan unrest. It looks to me like he gave some pretty honest opinions.

I'm curious to see the MLS cup final. I wouldn't say I'm excited but I'm definitly curious so see two top level MLS teams playing in person... that's somethingwe've never had a chance to see a BMO. I wonder how the quality of play will measure up to games I've been to in person Europe.

ExiledRed
10-20-2010, 08:19 PM
Garber is just doing his job. If he was weak leader he would bailed on this PR visit to Toronto in midst of all the fan unrest. It looks to me like he gave some pretty honest opinions.

I'm curious to see the MLS cup final. I wouldn't say I'm excited but I'm definitly curious so see two top level MLS teams playing in person... that's somethingwe've never had a chance to see a BMO. I wonder how the quality of play will measure up to games I've been to in person Europe.

We've seen both the teams that will play at BMO already this season, just not against each other. Only New York looked like they were a cut above, but we were seriously, seriously poor that day.

Im not expecting a goal fest full of bicycle kicks and screamers, I dont know why anybody else is. Finals are usually tight, very defensive and low scoring. This is great if your a fan of one of the teams because the tension is nerve wracking. I suspect that people who go for the 'spectacle' havent considered that 0-0 after 120 mins is actually more likely than a 3-2 or 4-3 scoreline.

FluSH
10-20-2010, 08:36 PM
Origami

Oldtimer
10-20-2010, 10:10 PM
I suspect that people who go for the 'spectacle' havent considered that 0-0 after 120 mins is actually more likely than a 3-2 or 4-3 scoreline.

There's a few that went 1-0, but some have had quite a few goals:

1996 3-2
2001 2-1
2003 4-2
2004 3-2
2008 3-1

Yes, I'm being a stats geek, I actually looked it up. :D

scooterTFC
10-20-2010, 10:19 PM
We've seen both the teams that will play at BMO already this season, just not against each other. Only New York looked like they were a cut above, but we were seriously, seriously poor that day.

Im not expecting a goal fest full of bicycle kicks and screamers, I dont know why anybody else is. Finals are usually tight, very defensive and low scoring. This is great if your a fan of one of the teams because the tension is nerve wracking. I suspect that people who go for the 'spectacle' havent considered that 0-0 after 120 mins is actually more likely than a 3-2 or 4-3 scoreline.

I think my point was that seeing two top level MLS teams play each other would be a first at BMO.

I love the drama of a title game in soccer. The number of goals scored doesn't define the quality of play or the entertainment value of the contest.

I would have bought this ticket even if it wasn't in the season package. I'd much rather pay to see a title game then a meaningless friendly.

How many people on here handed over big dollars to opt-in for the meaningless Real Madrid friendly? And is now everyone is bitching about paying for the MLS Cup game this year? This is a real game being played for a league title.

ExiledRed
10-20-2010, 11:03 PM
I think my point was that seeing two top level MLS teams play each other would be a first at BMO.

I love the drama of a title game in soccer. The number of goals scored doesn't define the quality of play or the entertainment value of the contest.

I would have bought this ticket even if it wasn't in the season package. I'd much rather pay to see a title game then a meaningless friendly.

How many people on here handed over big dollars to opt-in for the meaningless Real Madrid friendly? And is now everyone is bitching about paying for the MLS Cup game this year? This is a real game being played for a league title.

Six clowns defecating into a single paper bag in the c entre circle would be a first at BMO, but it wouldnt be a good reason to buy the ticket.

a well played 0-0 game is still boring as shit when you dont support either team.

And 'on here' we werent impressed with the real madrid game either, I imagine those that thought it was great are the same people who think its great to be stuck with the MLS cup final ticket.

Blizzard
10-20-2010, 11:11 PM
Six clowns defecating into a single paper bag in the c entre circle would be a first at BMO, but it wouldnt be a good reason to buy the ticket.

a well played 0-0 game is still boring as shit when you dont support either team.

And 'on here' we werent impressed with the real madrid game either, I imagine those that thought it was great are the same people who think its great to be stuck with the MLS cup final ticket.

So, to be clear, what you are saying is that you are not a fan of the sport of football, you're a TFC Only supporter.

If you can't appreciate and enjoy a well-played scoreless draw, you should probably switch to another sport.

ilikemusic
10-20-2010, 11:19 PM
So, to be clear, what you are saying is that you are not a fan of the sport of football, you're a TFC Only supporter.

If you can't appreciate and enjoy a well-played scoreless draw, you should probably switch to another sport.

Youre not a fan of 'sport x' if you dont want to pay out the nose to watch two teams you hate play?

Get that bullshit out of here.

ExiledRed
10-20-2010, 11:24 PM
So, to be clear, what you are saying is that you are not a fan of the sport of football, you're a TFC Only supporter.

If you can't appreciate and enjoy a well-played scoreless draw, you should probably switch to another sport.

Who the hell are you anyway?

Take your backhanded insults and shove em. Your opinion is laughable, I've been to over a hundred games in dozens of stadiums, just never to 'spectate'

I can watch mediocre teams I dont support play to 0-0 on the TV.

not a fan of the sport of football. fuck off.

and i dont care if i get banned for that.

Blizzard
10-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Youre not a fan of 'sport x' if you dont want to pay out the nose to watch two teams you hate play?

Get that bullshit out of here.

Chill out, that's not what I said at all. Our friend said "a well played 0-0 game is still boring as shit when you dont support either team."

I choose to differ with that view. I've been a neutral for some damned entertaining 0-0 matches in my time. My comment was strictly in response to the above quoted statement. That's all.

v00d00daddy
10-21-2010, 07:56 AM
a well played 0-0 game is still boring as shit when you dont support either team.

I don't share this opinion AT ALL. How can a "WELL PLAYED" game be boring as shit? It makes no sense to me.


And 'on here' we werent impressed with the real madrid game either, I imagine those that thought it was great are the same people who think its great to be stuck with the MLS cup final ticket.


For the record...I enjoyed the Real Madrid game and I'm NOT happy to be stuck with the MLS cup final ticket. So you imagine incorrectly.

Don't go if you don't want to go. Protest if you want to protest. Direct your anger at the people "forcing" you to go....MLSE/TFC...not other supporters.

And I agree with Blizzard...if you can't appreciate a WELL PLAYED 0-0 draw you might be watching the wrong sport. Regardless of how many times you've attended matches.

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 08:05 AM
I don't share this opinion AT ALL. How can a "WELL PLAYED" game be boring as shit? It makes no sense to me.



For the record...I enjoyed the Real Madrid game and I'm NOT happy to be stuck with the MLS cup final ticket. So you imagine incorrectly.

Don't go if you don't want to go. Protest if you want to protest. Direct your anger at the people "forcing" you to go....MLSE/TFC...not other supporters.

And I agree with Blizzard...if you can't appreciate a WELL PLAYED 0-0 draw you might be watching the wrong sport. Regardless of how many times you've attended matches.


Im not directing anger at any supporters, (who dont insult me directly) Im offering counterpoints to the apologists who seem to think its ok that everyone got lumped with this ticket because they want to go.

You're in no better position than the last twat to tell me im watching the wrong sport either.

DangerRed
10-21-2010, 08:15 AM
a well played 0-0 game is still boring as shit when you dont support either team.


:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

With that said, I'm doing a 180 and I'm completely changing my mind. I'll buy season tickets this year if I'm offered them. I'll go as cheap as possible (though they've probably got a nice pair of reds or dark greys with my name on it) and I'll take the Cup ticket. I wouldn't mind watching a well played 0-0 game even though I don't support either team.

ensco
10-21-2010, 08:20 AM
For those of you picking apart the reasons why someone wouldn't want to go to the MLS Cup, why bother? If a guy doesn't want to go, he doesn't want to go. It's a free country, last I heard.

Anyone in the camp of not wanting to go (it's a significant minority, I'd wager) would just be that much more pissed at MLSE.

Is that really worth commenting on?

v00d00daddy
10-21-2010, 08:23 AM
Im not directing anger at any supporters, (who dont insult me directly) Im offering counterpoints to the apologists who seem to think its ok that everyone got lumped with this ticket because they want to go.

You're in no better position than the last twat to tell me im watching the wrong sport either.


Why don't you try explaining how you've managed to watch 100's of matches in dozens of stadiums and stil manage to call a well played 0-0 draw boring before calling me a twat?

You honestly can't enjoy a 0-0 football match unless it involves a team you support?

If so...you are in the minority among people who have watched 100's of matches.

As for the MLS cup game.....I don't think ANYONE should be happy that we were forced to buy this ticket. I don't get why they couldn't just give us the option or first right of refusal to our seats.

I just don't see why we're attacking each other when guys like Anselmi should be the focus of our venom. That's all.

Oldtimer
10-21-2010, 08:48 AM
OK everyone:

:topic:


further nastiness on either part will give you the opportunity for a time-out from the board. THANK YOU.

leosc
10-21-2010, 09:12 AM
Why don't you marry Seattle :tongue:
Seattle is a good comparison for TFC, as they have been as successful as we wish TFC had been. The question is, what have they done right? What TFC has done wrong is obvious.

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 10:47 AM
Why don't you try explaining how you've managed to watch 100's of matches in dozens of stadiums and stil manage to call a well played 0-0 draw boring before calling me a twat?

You honestly can't enjoy a 0-0 football match unless it involves a team you support?

If so...you are in the minority among people who have watched 100's of matches.

As for the MLS cup game.....I don't think ANYONE should be happy that we were forced to buy this ticket. I don't get why they couldn't just give us the option or first right of refusal to our seats.

I just don't see why we're attacking each other when guys like Anselmi should be the focus of our venom. That's all.

For the second time, Im not attacking anybody, and I didnt call you a twat.

I stated my opinion, Which is that if i dont care about the outcome, i find a goalless game boring, so im not happy about being forced to purchase the ticket.

Following that, a couple of self proclaimed football afficionados tell me I shouldnt be following the sport, disdainfully looking down their nose at me because I reserve my interest for the teams I care about.

Im happy that you have a different opinion, but Im not having you sneer at me because the reason i dont think i should have been mandated the ticket, conflicts with your world view of what a football fan is.

And keep it in context please, a well played 0-0 game between Liverpool and practically anybody else would have me on the edge of my seat.

Red Rat
10-21-2010, 10:49 AM
this thread is boring.

jloome
10-21-2010, 10:55 AM
For those of you picking apart the reasons why someone wouldn't want to go to the MLS Cup, why bother? If a guy doesn't want to go, he doesn't want to go. It's a free country, last I heard.

Anyone in the camp of not wanting to go (it's a significant minority, I'd wager) would just be that much more pissed at MLSE.

Is that really worth commenting on?

Agreed.

Some mod wanna shut this one? it's just a piss fest at this point

H Bomb
10-21-2010, 10:59 AM
Stop closing/trying to close threads. Just cause we've been talking about the same things for a few days/weeks now doesnt mean they shouldnt be talked about. DONT GET APATHETIC. thats what they've been waiting for, and its what always happens. So dont do it. Be pissed, and if you're done in a thread, just move on yourself.

Stay angry my friends.

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 11:04 AM
For those of you picking apart the reasons why someone wouldn't want to go to the MLS Cup, why bother? If a guy doesn't want to go, he doesn't want to go. It's a free country, last I heard.

Anyone in the camp of not wanting to go (it's a significant minority, I'd wager) would just be that much more pissed at MLSE.

Is that really worth commenting on?

Its not really about who wants to go and who doesnt want to go.

If we all had a choice of purchasing the ticket, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Basically, Im seeing people who want to go showing contempt to the people who dont think they should be forced to buy the ticket to maintain their seasons, and that's getting my back up somewhat.

Im sensing if the people who want to go were given the option, theyd go anyway, so I dont get why they feel the need to try and convince those of us who are complaining about it, that they should try and be more sophisticated or something.

jloome
10-21-2010, 11:11 AM
Stop closing/trying to close threads. Just cause we've been talking about the same things for a few days/weeks now doesnt mean they shouldnt be talked about. DONT GET APATHETIC. thats what they've been waiting for, and its what always happens. So dont do it. Be pissed, and if you're done in a thread, just move on yourself.

Stay angry my friends.

Actually, in four years, this is the first time I've suggested closing a thread, and it's because the actual debate denigrated over the last three pages to insults.

Sentiment understood, not really the case here.

H Bomb
10-21-2010, 11:11 AM
Its not really about who wants to go and who doesnt want to go.

If we all had a choice of purchasing the ticket, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Basically, Im seeing people who want to go showing contempt to the people who dont think they should be forced to buy the ticket to maintain their seasons, and that's getting my back up somewhat.

Im sensing if the people who want to go were given the option, theyd go anyway, so I dont get why they feel the need to try and convince those of us who are complaining about it, that they should try and be more sophisticated or something.

I hear that. I dont know if I want to go, but i do KNOW that it should have been optional.

H Bomb
10-21-2010, 11:13 AM
Actually, in four years, this is the first time I've suggested closing a thread, and it's because the actual debate denigrated over the last three pages to insults.

Sentiment understood, not really the case here.


was a board generality, nothing at you. All of a sudden the masses seem to be boring of this. And that cant fly. This is a corporation that makes its name of passivity amongst its fans. and if we stop pushing that door, it'll never open. We need to stay pissed until we are appeased.

jloome
10-21-2010, 11:15 AM
was a board generality, nothing at you. All of a sudden the masses seem to be boring of this. And that cant fly. This is a corporation that makes its name of passivity amongst its fans. and if we stop pushing that door, it'll never open. We need to stay pissed until we are appeased.

I'd say at this point they realize they're on the precipice of the club failing with its long-term supporters base. They know where things stand now, and I honestly think you're past the "give them an inch" point.

If they lose even 10% of their renewals, for the money involved, heads might roll. And while they don't know football, they do know business: these things aren't cyclical when the cause of the decrease is customer unhappiness. It would just be the start of a continual decline to failure to not address things now.

tfcleeds
10-21-2010, 11:16 AM
Everyone here (and correct me if I'm wrong, ER) is misunderstanding his point. He is saying a well-played 0-0 draw between two teams he could care less about he would find "boring as shit". And on that point, I agree with him. I couldn't give a flying fuck if a 0-0 draw between NYRB and Columbus was "well-played". I hate both teams enough I probably wouldn't care to watch it in the first place. Doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the sport.

jloome
10-21-2010, 11:26 AM
Everyone here (and correct me if I'm wrong, ER) is misunderstanding his point. He is saying a well-played 0-0 draw between two teams he could care less about he would find "boring as shit". And on that point, I agree with him. I couldn't give a flying fuck if a 0-0 draw between NYRB and Columbus was "well-played". I hate both teams enough I probably wouldn't care to watch it in the first place. Doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the sport.

It's hard to explain this to people, but I'm the same way. I like watching football -- the skill, the pace, the ball control. But I LOVE watching it when I have a team to support.

I'm the same way with all sports (well, when I actually watched other sports). I used to support the Vikings many moons ago; wouldn't miss a minute, edge-of-the-seat etc. Even went down to Minneapolis for a game.

But I can't watch an NFL neutral game, because without the vested interest, it's long and dull, punctuated by eight seconds of excitement here and there.

Thankfully, soccer has enough skill play on display usually to make neutral games at least bareable. But I wouldn't sit through a whole one unless it might mean something to my team; so while I watch a lot of other MLS teams, it's only because it's our leage. The Colombian League comes on GOL TV and (unless we're talking about talent deficiencies that day and there's someone who looks worth scouting) I hit the remote.

tfcleeds
10-21-2010, 11:52 AM
And it's not that you necessarily have to have a vested interest in the outcome to watch it and enjoy it either. Heck, I'll wake up at 7:30 on a Saturday morning to see Stoke vs. Bolton if I feel in the mood. But it certainly DOES make a difference when you do have a reason to cheer for either team, of course.

rocker
10-21-2010, 11:53 AM
It's not any game though. It's the final.. the end....

I will watch any championship game no matter who's involved. Neutral games mid season? Tougher call. But I've watched midseason MLS games without TFC and enjoyed watching the soccer.

I'd watch the final of an U-20 tourney, a German cup game, an FA Cup, a Superbowl, a Grey Cup, a 7th game of the Stanley Cup, MLS Cup, Rogers Cup (even though generally I find tennis boring). Doesn't matter who's in it... it's a final... the end... the culmination.. that by itself makes the match entertaining. It means something.

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 11:56 AM
Shouldnt be hard to explain it at all. Without passion, pride and emotional investment, any sport is missing something at the 'spectator' level.

Often those elements are enough to watch even sports you dont like. Its why people who dont follow track and field, still watch the olympics or why millions of americans who never watch football, followed their team in the world cup.

As a fan I've always been more about the emotion than about the statistics, more about the passion than about the skills on display. (This really helps watching TFC by the way) Telling me Im watching the wrong sport is snobbery at its worst.

v00d00daddy
10-21-2010, 12:16 PM
I totally agree with the sentiment that this game should have been an option for people to buy.

I just don't see how people can say they love football but find any game that doesn't involve their favourite team, or a game that could have an impact on their favourite team, boring. Especially one that is played well and at the highest level.

Those of you who subscribe to this idea....do you mean to tell me that you didn't watch group stage matches in the last world cup that had nothing to do with the team you were rooting for?

If you're a Barcelona fan (just a random example) do you mean to tell me that a well played game between Chelsea and Man U that ends 0-0 is boring?

I just don't get it.

There is plenty of passion there...especially if you have the good fortune of being able to attend a well played "neutral" match in person.

I respect your opinion...but I wholeheartedly disagree with it and I'm sorry if you don't like that I consider fans like that fans of their team....and not fans of the sport.

trane
10-21-2010, 12:16 PM
My problem is two fold, YES I would watch almost any footy game anywere, including a pick up game in the park. I love watching the sport. BUT this is two teams, that are our hated opposition playing for the championship, in our stadium.

Well played footy? Have you not watched MLS for the past four years, well played footy is seen at best on infrequent occasions. But to be honest I have not interest in the MLS other then TFC, and the other two Canadian franchises. I am a nationalist when it comes to the sport. To me the MLS in Canada, is like having an EPL team in Italy. I just do not like it.

v00d00daddy
10-21-2010, 12:19 PM
Shouldnt be hard to explain it at all. Without passion, pride and emotional investment, any sport is missing something at the 'spectator' level.

Often those elements are enough to watch even sports you dont like. Its why people who dont follow track and field, still watch the olympics or why millions of americans who never watch football, followed their team in the world cup.

As a fan I've always been more about the emotion than about the statistics, more about the passion than about the skills on display. (This really helps watching TFC by the way) Telling me Im watching the wrong sport is snobbery at its worst.


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be a snob about it. I also mis read the part about you calling me a twat..which, after re-reading I see you did not do.

As for passion and emotion...I bet you'll find that you can find plenty of passion and emotion watching a well played 0-0 tie between Barca and Real Madrid...or Liverpool v. Everton...or even Juevntus v. Torino.

Whatever..to each their own I guess.

Good luck to your boys this afternoon. :D forza napoli :)

Parkdale
10-21-2010, 12:28 PM
Well played footy? Have you not watched MLS for the past four years, well played footy is seen at best on infrequent occasions.

The finals have generally been half decent games.

TFCRegina
10-21-2010, 01:44 PM
The finals have generally been half decent games.

Last year's final was actually quite fun to watch, especially when Donovan cocked it all up.

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 01:58 PM
Whatever..to each their own I guess.

Good luck to your boys this afternoon. :D forza napoli :)

You see, I enjoyed that 0-0, frustrating to watch as it was.

Oldtimer
10-21-2010, 01:59 PM
I watched MLS before TFC. I'm pretty sure I'll watch the MLS Cup match. If I sell my tickets, I'll watch it at home.

TFC/Everton
10-21-2010, 02:17 PM
Don Garber is an excellent commissioner and I understand that he is worried that BMO will have 14,000 people in it to watch the MLS Cup. God knows he is hoping for a Galaxy vs. Redbull final. It will be live on ESPN 1, and the eyes of the football world will be watching. I will be there with my TFC jersey on to show the football world that Toronto is a football town.

Let's not let this slip away boys.

rocker
10-21-2010, 02:22 PM
My problem is two fold, YES I would watch almost any footy game anywere, including a pick up game in the park. I love watching the sport. BUT this is two teams, that are our hated opposition playing for the championship, in our stadium.

Well played footy? Have you not watched MLS for the past four years, well played footy is seen at best on infrequent occasions. But to be honest I have not interest in the MLS other then TFC, and the other two Canadian franchises. I am a nationalist when it comes to the sport. To me the MLS in Canada, is like having an EPL team in Italy. I just do not like it.

I kinda see a contradiction here tho.. you talk about the hated opposition, but then you say you have no interest in the MLS other than TFC.

So it's just a "general hate"? Any opponent gets your hate because they play TFC? Then if they're not playing TFC, you should be simply uninterested in them. They wouldn't mean anything to you.

"well played footy is seen at best on infrequent occasions"? Do you watch other MLS games? I've seen lots of excellent games... games involving NY, LA, Columbus, Seattle. Did you see the San jose game the other night where Wondo scored 3 goals? Good game.

you seem to suggest you don't have an interest in MLS outside TFC but then you're commenting authoritatively on the quality of MLS generally?? I don't get it.

Don't judge MLS on TFC's quality.

given that the playoffs admit the best 8 teams in the league, I'm guessing the final will be a good quality game. If it's NY vs LA it might be even better than expected.

J .
10-21-2010, 02:33 PM
This thread is Lulztastic

Should have been optional

I hope the stadium is empty

TFC Cityboy
10-21-2010, 02:44 PM
Don Garber is an excellent commissioner and I understand that he is worried that BMO will have 14,000 people in it to watch the MLS Cup. God knows he is hoping for a Galaxy vs. Redbull final. It will be live on ESPN 1, and the eyes of the football world will be watching. I will be there with my TFC jersey on to show the football world that Toronto is a football town.

Let's not let this slip away boys.

ever seen any MLS Refs? Won't be a problem if you know what I mean...

;)

Jeffro
10-21-2010, 03:16 PM
Personally, I love watching the teams I hate. As a Barca fan, I rarely miss a Real Madrid game, love rooting against them and get just as mad every time they win/score as I do when Barca loses/concedes.

Four years ago the World Cup final was Italy and France, two of my most hated National teams, I watched the game on St. Clair just to see what would happen after Italy won.

Personally, I watch tons of games involving teams I don't care about, and in this case will thoroughly enjoy calling Henry a cheating cunt, or calling Beckerman a dirty hippy and telling him to cut his hair, completely battering both teams for 90 minutes, and possibly even singing a couple songs for TFC and Danny D.

I've said from the start that I agree it should have been optional though.

Oldtimer
10-21-2010, 03:24 PM
This thread is Lulztastic

Should have been optional

I hope the stadium is empty

Why?

If the league is successful, there will be higher salary caps, better players.

You want the league to fail because MLSE fired your fav coach Preki?

trane
10-21-2010, 03:55 PM
I kinda see a contradiction here tho.. you talk about the hated opposition, but then you say you have no interest in the MLS other than TFC.

So it's just a "general hate"? Any opponent gets your hate because they play TFC? Then if they're not playing TFC, you should be simply uninterested in them. They wouldn't mean anything to you.

"well played footy is seen at best on infrequent occasions"? Do you watch other MLS games? I've seen lots of excellent games... games involving NY, LA, Columbus, Seattle. Did you see the San jose game the other night where Wondo scored 3 goals? Good game.

you seem to suggest you don't have an interest in MLS outside TFC but then you're commenting authoritatively on the quality of MLS generally?? I don't get it.

Don't judge MLS on TFC's quality.

given that the playoffs admit the best 8 teams in the league, I'm guessing the final will be a good quality game. If it's NY vs LA it might be even better than expected.


I have seen every single MLS team, and none of them play good football. Many of you are pleased with football as long as the players are running and goals are scored. The defending is crap accross the MLS, and the footy IQ is as bad, good tactical play is almost non existence.

I hate the US national team, I hate anything to do with US SOCCER, I hate the way they market, I hate the names to the teams, I hate the way the call teh games, I hate the NCAA, I hate the draft. I hate the MLS because it is an AMERICAN SOCCER instituation. I support TFC, because I love Football, I Love Toronto, and I love Canada. BMO is were TFC plays, it is in Toronto, Canada, and I would hate to see TWO ENEMY TEAMS play for a cup there. So there is no contradiction.


I AM A HATER.

Suds
10-21-2010, 04:03 PM
Well ... I finally came to the decision today to renew a single season seat in my name. So now I have a ticket to the MLS Cup.

If I'm in town I'll most likely go to the final. I have never been to a MLS Cup and don't see myself traveling to one in the near future. My travel budget for footy gets used up on TFC during the season. (and God willing for an away playoff game some day :rolleyes:)

If I'm there I plan to enjoy myself and take in this event for all it's worth.

flatpicker
10-21-2010, 04:07 PM
^ I'll be there as well.
I just renewed my 2 seats.
Please God... let us have a good team next year, and a good season renewal package for 2012!

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 04:08 PM
. I will be there with my TFC jersey on to show the football world that Toronto is a football town.


I appreciate your sentiment and you raise a good point, but you do realise that if the rest of the 'football world' is actually interested enough to tune in, theyre not going to see the guys in Toronto shirts and think 'wow, toronto must be a soccer town'

More likely, anybody outside of North america is going to say, 'why are they there? where are the fans of the teams who are playing? what kind of half assed cup final is this anyway?'

Suds
10-21-2010, 04:14 PM
I appreciate your sentiment and you raise a good point, but you do realise that if the rest of the 'football world' is actually interested enough to tune in, theyre not going to see the guys in Toronto shirts and think 'wow, toronto must be a soccer town'

More likely, anybody outside of North america is going to say, 'why are they there? where are the fans of the teams who are playing? what kind of half assed cup final is this anyway?'

possibly ... (and this is just an observation) .. but it seems the MLS Cup is much more along the lines of the Grey Cup in that is draws fans from all over the league who are there to represent their teams & cities, celebrate the game, etc.

I don't think they are too concerned about what people outside North America think. Besides ... I doubt anyone from outside North America will be tuning in. :D

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 04:17 PM
^ neither do I , but if we are talking about how we are perceived by the 'football world' we have to take into account that a cup final were the fans of the actual teams aren't a presence and instead there are fans who support a different team entirely in their place, they're going to think that's lame as fuck.

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 04:18 PM
and nobody is going to care about distances either. For instance, organising transport from Liverpool, England to Istanbul, Turkey is a much tougher feat than travelling from New York to Toronto.

THA BUTCHA
10-21-2010, 04:21 PM
I look forward to making my first YouTube video.

Of me burning my MLS Cup tickets. I'm gonna try and start a trend

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 04:24 PM
^its kind of symbolic, but once you download the pdf you can print as many as you like.

Beach_Red
10-21-2010, 04:26 PM
^ neither do I , but if we are talking about how we are perceived by the 'football world' we have to take into account that a cup final were the fans of the actual teams aren't a presence and instead there are fans who support a different team entirely in their place, they're going to think that's lame as fuck.

MLS is trying to get a bigger piece of the North American sports world where neutral site games like the Super Bowl and about a hundred other bowl games are played so in that case attendance will be a factor. Maybe a small factor, but certainly a half empty stadium won't help.

Still, it seems there's little doubt MLS now wishes this game was in New York now.

J .
10-21-2010, 04:27 PM
Why?

If the league is successful, there will be higher salary caps, better players.

You want the league to fail because MLSE fired your fav coach Preki?


A) I like having an affordable league to attend, using it to develop Canadian Talent and MLS is a good product for its price point (for the most part). Like Ive said before, I'd rather pay affordable pricing to watch MeRo than Drogba. I dont think the product warrants a 75-80% price increase. Imagine if it improves... Who can afford $80 supporters seats? Very few.

B) I dont want MLS to fail. Ive never said that. If MLS failed because there was nobody at the Finals, they have bigger problems to worry about.

C) I want MLSE to fail for using supporters as marketing tools and sales people all the while increasing pricing, hearing our voices but not listening to our legitimate concerns, putting out inferior product over four years as well as other gripes I have.


D) Preki is not my favourite coach. I believe TFC needs a defensive minded approach to meet its lack of technical skills as well as lack of defensive mentality over 3 1/2 years. All the winning teams are very solid in their back end. Without Preki, we have never defended. I've always maintained Mo should have been let go and Preki put in charge to change our mentality which guys like MeRo, JDG and Daso rejected. The NT has done better without MeRo/JDG while Dasovic has no pedigree as a good player/coach/manager. None.

Any other misconceptions?

trane
10-21-2010, 04:50 PM
MLS is trying to get a bigger piece of the North American sports world where neutral site games like the Super Bowl and about a hundred other bowl games are played so in that case attendance will be a factor. Maybe a small factor, but certainly a half empty stadium won't help.

Still, it seems there's little doubt MLS now wishes this game was in New York now.

I wish that the game was in New York as well.

greatwhitenorf
10-21-2010, 05:37 PM
Guarantee a full house by holding a lottery drawn from scanned tickets where the winners are handed hockey sticks to take onto the field at half time and batter the fcuk out of a big form-fitting pinata with the real Tom Anselmi inside.

'Just a hockey guy', eh? I'll show you who's a hockey guy.

ensco
10-21-2010, 06:53 PM
Could they move the game to NY now?

I mean it's not like this event is the Super Bowl with 50,000 people making their plans to come 11 months in advance.

razor787
10-21-2010, 06:58 PM
Changing the venue would not help them at all. If MLS moved it, no matter what they gave as the reason, it would be heard EVERYWHERE that MLS moved it, to quiet the voices of the fans. That would make the cup final look more bush league than if there was a protest.

The MLS, unless they can force MLSE to take action, is fucked no matter what they do.

ensco
10-21-2010, 07:07 PM
Maybe. They might get away with it though if they come up with some cockamamie story about how the soil aeration dilithium crystals failed, making the surface unplayable....

TFC_Toon
10-21-2010, 07:22 PM
Maybe. They might get away with it though if they come up with some cockamamie story about how the soil aeration dilithium crystals failed, making the surface unplayable....

:lol:

jloome
10-21-2010, 07:29 PM
Maybe. They might get away with it though if they come up with some cockamamie story about how the soil aeration dilithium crystals failed, making the surface unplayable....

A more likely scenario if Mo were still here. "Cap'n the pitch canna take much mooooouurrrre!"

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 07:32 PM
Changing the venue would not help them at all. If MLS moved it, no matter what they gave as the reason, it would be heard EVERYWHERE that MLS moved it, to quiet the voices of the fans. That would make the cup final look more bush league than if there was a protest.

The MLS, unless they can force MLSE to take action, is fucked no matter what they do.

Hearing is listening combined with giving a shit.

I dont think it would be heard everywhere, and I dont think it would make MLS look any more bush league than it is already.

Beach_Red
10-21-2010, 07:34 PM
Changing the venue would not help them at all. If MLS moved it, no matter what they gave as the reason, it would be heard EVERYWHERE that MLS moved it, to quiet the voices of the fans. That would make the cup final look more bush league than if there was a protest.

The MLS, unless they can force MLSE to take action, is fucked no matter what they do.

So, which would be the lesser of two evils? You're right, everyone who follows MLS fairly closely will know what really happened, but is that worth it to them to look good in NY on TV to potential new fans?

Ensco is right, it will depend a little on what excuse they can use.

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 07:41 PM
Maybe. They might get away with it though if they come up with some cockamamie story about how the soil aeration dilithium crystals failed, making the surface unplayable....

You are quite brilliant sometimes you know.

The inabilty of the city to prevent abuse of the stadium after the installation of grass, has left the pitch in an untenable state and with the advent of the cold weather, preventative measures need to be enacted in order to ensure the grass survives the winter, which unfortunately for some very disappointed Torontonians, means no MLS cup final this year.

Sullivan
10-21-2010, 08:15 PM
On behalf of three visiting coaches (South Carolina, North Carolina and Florida), I'm seeking 3 tickets for Nov 21.

No preferred section.

Three together would be good.
2 pairs would be ok - I can give mine up to another out-of-town coach.
Last resort is singles.

Guys will pay face value for them. I'll front the payment.

Obviously this applies only to those who don't want to go, will or have renewed, and don't want to be out-of-pocket.

No grief plz.

I'm trying to help visitors who just want to watch the match.

PMs plz.

And thanks.

razor787
10-21-2010, 08:20 PM
Even if MLS really wanted too, I am sure that there is a contract written up with MLS and MLSE, where it WILL happen in Toronto. Only way out of it, would be if MLSE didnt meet the conditions of the contract.

It possible that MLS wants x number of seats sold by a certain date, but that doesnt seem likely. Its getting closer and closer to the date. I cant see it moving from Toronto for a number of reasons.

razor787
10-21-2010, 08:22 PM
On behalf of three visiting coaches (South Carolina, North Carolina and Florida), I'm seeking 3 tickets for Nov 21.

No preferred section.

Three together would be good.
2 pairs would be ok - I can give mine up to another out-of-town coach.
Last resort is singles.

Guys will pay face value for them. I'll front the payment.

Obviously this applies only to those who don't want to go, will or have renewed, and don't want to be out-of-pocket.

No grief plz.

I'm trying to help visitors who just want to watch the match.

PMs plz.

And thanks.

There is a spot for ticket requests/sales.
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25090

TFC07
10-21-2010, 08:25 PM
The only way MLS cup game would be sold out if Beckham (LAG) make it to the finals. To be honest, I don't mind going to MLS cup game if tickets are cheap. :)

Sullivan
10-21-2010, 08:56 PM
There is a spot for ticket requests/sales.
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25090


Thanks. done. Sorry. Forgot about ticket trader.

ExiledRed
10-21-2010, 09:08 PM
Even if MLS really wanted too, I am sure that there is a contract written up with MLS and MLSE, where it WILL happen in Toronto. Only way out of it, would be if MLSE didnt meet the conditions of the contract.

It possible that MLS wants x number of seats sold by a certain date, but that doesnt seem likely. Its getting closer and closer to the date. I cant see it moving from Toronto for a number of reasons.

If both parties want out of a contract, then its as good as done.

If both MLSE and MLS felt it was not beneficial to hold the cup final in Toronto, there would be no reason to uphold the contract.

SoccMan
10-21-2010, 11:00 PM
An MLS final in Toronto played in a half empty BMO Field will look bad on Toronto and it's soccer reputation period. The soccer hating media will love to see an empty BMO Field and will say that it is prove that Toronto is not realy a soccer loving city, they will not point to any sort of protest for the stadium being empty.

king dave
10-21-2010, 11:07 PM
An MLS final in Toronto played in a half empty BMO Field will look bad on Toronto and it's soccer reputation period. The soccer hating media will love to see an empty BMO Field and will say that it is prove that Toronto is not realy a soccer loving city, they will not point to any sort of protest for the stadium being empty.
Guess the kool-aid was good then?
KD.

Azerban
10-21-2010, 11:33 PM
An MLS final in Toronto played in a half empty BMO Field will look bad on Toronto and it's soccer reputation period. The soccer hating media will love to see an empty BMO Field and will say that it is prove that Toronto is not realy a soccer loving city, they will not point to any sort of protest for the stadium being empty.


who cares

Azerban
10-21-2010, 11:34 PM
literally, who cares what a newspaper thinks, ever

Azerban
10-21-2010, 11:36 PM
Our Long Precious Soccer History And Tradition Will be Unjustly Spoilt

king dave
10-21-2010, 11:38 PM
literally, who cares what a newspaper thinks, ever
Hey I'm not a dunce but I don't think newspapers have brains like people have in their heads so how can a newspaper think?
KD.

king dave
10-21-2010, 11:39 PM
who cares
+KD.
KD.

Azerban
10-21-2010, 11:39 PM
Hey I'm not a dunce but I don't think newspapers have brains like people have in their heads so how can a newspaper think?
KD.

the people who write newspapers have brains!!!

i think

king dave
10-21-2010, 11:41 PM
My mom reads the newspaper every day and she is 75.
Then she carefully places it in the area where her little dog goes poo.
It's win/win.
KD.

king dave
10-21-2010, 11:44 PM
the people who write newspapers have brains!!!

i think
I hope so but . . .
Wait til you move into the 'grumpy old man' stage of your life.
The only truthfull publication out there is?
KD.

king dave
10-21-2010, 11:55 PM
The only publication that 'speaks' the truth.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1373/5103656121_64b14b632c.jpg
You tell 'em Don!
KD.

Mikey
10-22-2010, 06:42 AM
An MLS final in Toronto played in a half empty BMO Field will look bad on Toronto and it's soccer reputation period. The soccer hating media will love to see an empty BMO Field and will say that it is prove that Toronto is not realy a soccer loving city, they will not point to any sort of protest for the stadium being empty.

Why would the stadium be half empty, what about the 30 bajillion people on the waiting list that the ML$E spin machine has been ramming down our throats for four years. Surely ML$E will set up a ticket exchange for SSH to offload their unwanted tickets to the clamouring horde......unless of course it was all bullshit.

TOBOR !
10-22-2010, 07:02 AM
Hearing is listening combined with giving a shit.

^you have that backwards, innit.

IF the unlikely scenario arises where the Cup Final is shifted to another location I think it would be a strong indicator of the power of the people.

Garber is worried. Why is he worried ? Because the people are pushing back.

This would be the best outcome for us. The MLS Cup Final ticket would be removed from the ST package and MLSE would lose face.

Oldtimer
10-22-2010, 07:37 AM
^you have that backwards, innit.

IF the unlikely scenario arises where the Cup Final is shifted to another location I think it would be a strong indicator of the power of the people.

Garber is worried. Why is he worried ? Because the people are pushing back.

This would be the best outcome for us. The MLS Cup Final ticket would be removed from the ST package and MLSE would lose face.

You honestly think that will happen? Not a chance. The league will pocket your money (thank you very much), and those who don't show up will look like ingrates.

MLS is not the enemy. ML$E isn't even an enemy. Incompetent? Yes. Greedy? Yes. But they brought us an MLS team when nobody else would and took a huge financial risk to do so, and they want to do things right the second time around. It's time to give these incompetents a chance, maybe they'll get the GM hire right this time, by accident most likely than deliberate design.

Anyways, I'm fed up with all this talk of protests. A protest is worthless unless it actually accomplishes something.

A bunch of people shooting off on a message board is worthless. How many people wore green? Not many.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the Cup, and I'm not burning my tickets or whatever other protest that a tiny group of people come up with, when even an excellent protest (wearing green) that had a huge number of people saying they'd go with ended up being just a handful of people witha a few flecks of green throughout the stadium.

I didn't buy TFC tickets to become a protester, I bought them to have fun, because I love the game. I didn't join the RPB to become a protester, I joined to have fun, because the game is more fun when you have fun together.

If being a TFC supporter means that for ever I must be protesting, count me out. I'll stop being a "supporter" and just go to the games and have fun, while you guys stand outside burning your tickets or whatever other protest you have dreamed up.

My 2 cents.

DichioTFC
10-22-2010, 07:47 AM
^ I've never agreed with a statement on this board more wholeheartedly than OT's comment right here.

The people here who complain and bitch, don't protest. The people who actually went through with the protest, don't bitch about it as much as others. It seems as though everyone wants to start some revolution with their anger and turn TFC into some dream franchise where the fans make the decisions. There is absolutely no reality in this.

Children (aka the vast majority of protesters), you're not 12 and TFC is not your mother. Grow up. You're upset with the product, I get it, we all are, but FFS, stop being so negative about *everything*.

I'm going to the MLS Cup and I'm going to have a great time. Clearly it'll be a once-in-a-while thing, because we wont be hosting it for a long time and for damn sure we wont be in it for awhile as well.

Wull
10-22-2010, 07:58 AM
I've done everything that was asked of us and don't feel like being told to grow up. I don't want a game that doesn't involve TFC to be part of my season ticket package. If you want to go, I hope you enjoy it and the game is entertaining but don't start on those of us who disagree and have decided to show our unhappiness by leaving an empty seat at a game involving two teams I hate playing for the cup in our stadium.

The ticket should have been optional, they could still make it that way by offering to buy back from anyone who chooses not to go. Why should I sell it on to a stranger or fan of one of the participating teams and risk that person getting ejected?

In short, make up your own mind but don't start on those of us who are choosing to think differently

Azerban
10-22-2010, 08:01 AM
The people here who complain and bitch, don't protest. The people who actually went through with the protest, don't bitch about it as much as others.

could i get a condensed list of "whiny blustery children with lady parts" and "lion-hearted ubermensch", p. curious to see exactly what you think happens!

Oldtimer
10-22-2010, 08:06 AM
I've done everything that was asked of us and don't feel like being told to grow up. I don't want a game that doesn't involve TFC to be part of my season ticket package. If you want to go, I hope you enjoy it and the game is entertaining but don't start on those of us who disagree and have decided to show our unhappiness by leaving an empty seat at a game involving two teams I hate playing for the cup in our stadium.

The ticket should have been optional, they could still make it that way by offering to buy back from anyone who chooses not to go. Why should I sell it on to a stranger or fan of one of the participating teams and risk that person getting ejected?

In short, make up your own mind but don't start on those of us who are choosing to think differently

Well, I don't call you "children," but enjoy your protest while I enjoy a game of footy. I'm not sure what you think you are going to accomplish (and I'm pretty sure you are not going to accomplish getting any concessions), but have fun. I enjoy football, not protesting. I'm done with protesting this season.

MartinUtd
10-22-2010, 08:10 AM
The league will pocket your money (thank you very much), and those who don't show up will look like ingrates.

I live an hour out of town and in all likelihood will skip this game as I have marginal at best interest. How will one look a certain way in their absence?

Wull
10-22-2010, 08:13 AM
Well, I don't call you "children," but enjoy your protest while I enjoy a game of footy. I'm not sure what you think you are going to accomplish (and I'm pretty sure you are not going to accomplish getting any concessions), but have fun. I'm done with protesting this season.

It's been made clear we're not getting concessions about the cup final (also, you weren't the one who told us to grow up). I'll enjoy my protest by being elsewhere and doing something other than watching two teams I despise. I'm not going to trek down to the ground to burn my ticket or eat it or chant outside. All I'm hoping to accomplish is to make sure they make such additions optional and ensure I'm not going to endure the consequences of selling my ticket to someone who then gets ejected or something.

Heathen
10-22-2010, 08:19 AM
Well, I don't call you "children," but enjoy your protest while I enjoy a game of footy. I'm not sure what you think you are going to accomplish (and I'm pretty sure you are not going to accomplish getting any concessions), but have fun. I enjoy football, not protesting. I'm done with protesting this season.

I'm not protesting by not using my tickets, I'm doing exactly the same as MLSE when it comes to the MLS Cup, being a lazy bastard and doing absolutely nothing. I honestly just want this season to be over and move on and the last thing I need in late November is to be reminded of what a shitty 2010 its been by Beckham, Henry, Schelotto or whoever cavorting around BMO.

Fort York Redcoat
10-22-2010, 08:25 AM
Well, I don't call you "children," but enjoy your protest while I enjoy a game of footy. I'm not sure what you think you are going to accomplish (and I'm pretty sure you are not going to accomplish getting any concessions), but have fun. I enjoy football, not protesting. I'm done with protesting this season.

Enjoy? These have been the worst 2 games out I've been to and there's been a lot of shit games in our history.

Just so we're even here on both sides I can't enjoy being forced to watch two other teams competing to lift a cup on my pitch any more than you can stand another protest.

This isn't fun or fame for me.

Beach_Red
10-22-2010, 08:34 AM
Well, I don't call you "children," but enjoy your protest while I enjoy a game of footy. I'm not sure what you think you are going to accomplish (and I'm pretty sure you are not going to accomplish getting any concessions), but have fun. I enjoy football, not protesting. I'm done with protesting this season.

Just to be clear, was the MLS Cup game ticket included in the Seattle season ticket package last year? Has it been included in any other season ticket packages?

Are other teams in this single-entity league freezing prices or reducing prices?

You're right that protests probably won't get concessions, but if ticket sales are low something will be done to try and convince more people to buy tickets.

It will be interesting to see what they try.

Oldtimer
10-22-2010, 08:40 AM
If you want to stay home that's fine.

... and the "green" protest was successful, as far as 112 went. It's just that there was a lot of people outside of 112 who said they would wear green, and didn't bother.

MartinUtd
10-22-2010, 08:45 AM
You said if we don't show up we'll look like ingrates. How is that fine?

Oldtimer
10-22-2010, 08:49 AM
You said if we don't show up we'll look like ingrates. How is that fine?

Only if its a boycott will you look like ingrates.

Every game has people who don't attend for one reason or another. That's fine.

My original post wasn't aimed at those who don't care about the MLS Cup. it's aimed at the perpetual protesters.
I'm not an RPB to protest, I'm here for fun.

jabbronies
10-22-2010, 09:01 AM
I thought our protest was to be quiet at the stadium and wear green as an addition - at least that what the whole thing felt like to me. Not everyone wore green, but almost everyone didn't chant. I wouldn't downplay what we did over the past week.

As for the MLS cup - I'll be there. MLSE already has my money, I might as well show up and watch the game. I mean let's be honest here - With the way this team is going, how many people will have a chance to go see the MLS Cup final in their lifetime!

I personally don't get the hard on people have with boycotting this game when you already paid for your ticket? Not going to the game isn't going to solidify anything in terms of how MLSE see's our dissatisfaction with them. We have held the gun to their head by killing the atmosphere at their games - have literally been in a room with them and told them they are fucking idiots for what they did - The league and media know what is going on - I don't know what point not going to the MLS Cup.

Can someone explain to me how that will hurt ML$E when they already have your money? What point will this make? They already know we control the environment they are selling to casuals, the league has already said they fucked up, they have said they fucked. what else is there?

Section 117
10-22-2010, 09:02 AM
IMO if people want to go to the game fine, if they don't that is fine as well.

Go nuts hammer away at me for the below comment, but at the end of the day what ever people choose to do is fine and it is sad that people berate each other for their decisions.

I guess there is a difference from being TFC supporter and football supporter. It is typical of the Toronto market we are not hockey fans we are Leaf fans...

Wull
10-22-2010, 09:06 AM
I guess there is a difference from being TFC supporter and football supporter. It is typical of the Toronto market we are not hockey fans we are Leaf fans...

I'm a football supporter, I'm just not an mls supporter (though you're right, if it's not the Leafs or team Canada I won't watch hockey)

Section 117
10-22-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm a football supporter, I'm just not an mls supporter (though you're right, if it's not the Leafs or team Canada I won't watch hockey)

This proves my point you are just a TFC fan, not a MLS fan. The sad thing is the league is actually not bad, just we suck and don't know how to play football.

Wull
10-22-2010, 09:19 AM
This proves my point you are just a TFC fan, not a MLS fan. The sad thing is the league is actually not bad, just we suck and don't know how to play football.

Your point was TFC versus football supporter, I'm saying I'm a fan of the game overall, it's mls I have no interest in watching when we're not playing

ochos
10-22-2010, 09:23 AM
MLS is not the enemy. ML$E isn't even an enemy. Incompetent? Yes. Greedy? Yes. But they brought us an MLS team when nobody else would and took a huge financial risk to do so, and they want to do things right the second time around. It's time to give these incompetents a chance, maybe they'll get the GM hire right this time, by accident most likely than deliberate design.


Agreed, except I believe I substantial pressure will force them to make a better decision by looking at more options.



Anyways, I'm fed up with all this talk of protests. A protest is worthless unless it actually accomplishes something.

A bunch of people shooting off on a message board is worthless. How many people wore green? Not many.


Disagree. I was impressed with everything. 112 sat and wore green, as did many throughout the stadium. The atmosphere was a morgue. Every major newspaper and sports outlet in the country covered us. Yes, maybe there are only a minority actually voicing their opinions on this message board, but you get a great spectrum of views. I've come to this boards for years now to educate myself on the issues and formulate my own opinions.





Anyway, I'm looking forward to the Cup, and I'm not burning my tickets or whatever other protest that a tiny group of people come up with, when even an excellent protest (wearing green) that had a huge number of people saying they'd go with ended up being just a handful of people witha a few flecks of green throughout the stadium.

I didn't buy TFC tickets to become a protester, I bought them to have fun, because I love the game. I didn't join the RPB to become a protester, I joined to have fun, because the game is more fun when you have fun together.

If being a TFC supporter means that for ever I must be protesting, count me out. I'll stop being a "supporter" and just go to the games and have fun, while you guys stand outside burning your tickets or whatever other protest you have dreamed up.

My 2 cents.

I'm also looking forward to the cup. If you look at my poll/thread from the beginning of the month you can see many other people wanted to attend this game - http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=24813&page=8&highlight=PROTEST

It shouldn't be any surprise at the ratio of people wanting to go/boycott, because we knew weeks ago people were split. What we did do was act, and because of our actions we made LOTS of progress. Meetings with the team are only the first step. I truly feel like we're making the first of several important steps to improve the future of this club.

I've respected a lot of your viewpoints over the years, but I don't think it's time to start bashing the protests. I doubt anyone else here joined to be a protester. We were in a situation where it became an obligation to stick up for the people who make this team what it is - the supporters. And we did. Some people are still upset and that's natural.

Personally I am going to go to the cup game to enjoy it. I'm waiting for the team to make good on their promises and will rest my silent protesting for now. I'd like to see season's tickets prices dropped in the more expensive areas, or at the very least frozen, and I believe as a group we need to continue pushing MLSE to do this for the good of the team and the atmosphere at BMO.



^ I've never agreed with a statement on this board more wholeheartedly than OT's comment right here.

The people here who complain and bitch, don't protest. The people who actually went through with the protest, don't bitch about it as much as others. It seems as though everyone wants to start some revolution with their anger and turn TFC into some dream franchise where the fans make the decisions. There is absolutely no reality in this.

Children (aka the vast majority of protesters), you're not 12 and TFC is not your mother. Grow up. You're upset with the product, I get it, we all are, but FFS, stop being so negative about *everything*.

I'm going to the MLS Cup and I'm going to have a great time. Clearly it'll be a once-in-a-while thing, because we wont be hosting it for a long time and for damn sure we wont be in it for awhile as well.

Agreed. There's always too much negativity on this board, but you can tell someone's personality by their posts and it's usually the same people being negative.

We need to maintain pressure as a group on the ownership to make the right decisions for ourselves (the supporters groups) as well as the rest of the fans.

But, we are the lifeblood of this organization and it will soon be time to get this team thriving like they once were.

H Bomb
10-22-2010, 09:30 AM
The people here who complain and bitch, don't protest. The people who actually went through with the protest, don't bitch about it as much as others. It seems as though everyone wants to start some revolution with their anger and turn TFC into some dream franchise where the fans make the decisions. There is absolutely no reality in this.

Children (aka the vast majority of protesters), you're not 12 and TFC is not your mother. Grow up. You're upset with the product, I get it, we all are, but FFS, stop being so negative about *everything*.
.


Just to make sure all sides are covered....I've bitched more than most, and wore green, went to meetings, blah blah blah. Because if we dislike people who bitch about being treated like ATM's, then what do we think of people who just bitch about those people and dont do anything at all. No one has ever claimed that anyone who wants to go to the MLS cup shouldnt be allowed to. but to be complacent here, for me that is useless, and the beginning of everything that's good about this club. Cause we all know its not the football that's good.

MartinUtd
10-22-2010, 09:33 AM
Only if its a boycott will you look like ingrates.

Every game has people who don't attend for one reason or another. That's fine.

My original post wasn't aimed at those who don't care about the MLS Cup. it's aimed at the perpetual protesters.
I'm not an RPB to protest, I'm here for fun.

An empty seat is an empty seat regardless of the reason. I don't care for the constant crying wolf either, but I will have a chuckle if MLSE has egg on its face due to documented empty seats on a US national broadcast. I'm bitter about the season ticket renewal and have purposely waited until today to renew. I'm pissed off. I even had a cordial conversation with my rep about it and felt satisfied when he'd exhausted all the spin and conceded (in a more eloquent manner) that they'd fucked up. This is prior to the town halls as well.

The reason I'm writing this is because I sympathize with those who say that want to leave their seat empty as a form of protest. We got jacked so the league and MLSE can use more crowd shots for their promo material. If people don't follow through with theirs words then fine, call them on it. But don't paint everyone who chooses not to go out of malice with one broad stroke.

Oldtimer
10-22-2010, 09:38 AM
The reason I'm writing this is because I sympathize with those who say that want to leave their seat empty as a form of protest. We got jacked so the league and MLSE can use more crowd shots for their promo material. If people don't follow through with theirs words then fine, call them on it. But don't paint everyone who chooses not to go out of malice with one broad stroke.

Again, this is a free country, people have a right to peaceful protest.

Count me out, though. Before TFC, I had gone to one protest in my entire life. I'm not the protester type. I'm here because I like the game.

Suds
10-22-2010, 09:44 AM
Man ... I can't believe people on here are still trying to justify their decision to go or not to go. Everyone has made their decision one way or another and no one is going to change their mind at this point. If you're comfortable with your decision then you should be fine to move on.

If you're still pissed, take it up with MLSE. Continued debate on this board is not getting anyone anywhere.

For those who are going - we should all just move to another thread where more positive discussions can take place.

Maybe I'm just getting tired of all this negativity. I've had my chance at a town hall to make my thoughts known directly to the top people at TFC. I'm ready to move on wand see how they react.

tfcleeds
10-22-2010, 09:47 AM
^Agreed. People who are going or not going have both stated their cases for why they have made their decision. This thread is beginning to jump the shark, IMHO.

H Bomb
10-22-2010, 09:52 AM
see? what I say? This place is getting apathetic and all U sectory. Pity. We could have done something if so many people werent willing to be used as Bank Machines without even fighting back. But I for one am not surprised.

Fort York Redcoat
10-22-2010, 09:54 AM
see? what I say? This place is getting apathetic and all U sectory. Pity. We could have done something if so many people werent willing to be used as Bank Machines without even fighting back. But I for one am not surprised.

agreed. Those who wish to piss on protest and attend the game try making a positive thread.

razor787
10-22-2010, 09:54 AM
Just an idea - the people that don't want to go, that have tickets around the stadium, should trade with those in 112. If we can get a completely empty (except for the scalper seats) that would really make the news.

Myself though, if I get the seats I'm hoping for, I will go to the game. Seems pointless to me, to protest the prices/packages, when there is no way they can do anything about it.

razor787
10-22-2010, 09:57 AM
agreed. Those who wish to piss on protest and attend the game try making a positive thread.

I don't see why there should be two threads. It's a discussion about it.

Wull
10-22-2010, 10:00 AM
Seems pointless to me, to protest the prices/packages, when there is no way they can do anything about it.

they could buy it back from anyone not wishing to attend then actually advertise the game is being played here and try to sell tickets themselves. There's still time

Suds
10-22-2010, 10:02 AM
I don't see why there should be two threads. It's a discussion about it.


I think he means that if someone is going to the MLS Cup that maybe it's time they stop posting in this thread and move to another.

This thread should be left to those that are not going and want to discuss what they are doing.

razor787
10-22-2010, 10:03 AM
they could buy it back from anyone not wishing to attend then actually advertise the game is being played here and try to sell tickets themselves. There's still time

And celtics and rangers fans can go on the news tomorrow, and say they love eachother. Doesn't mean it will happen, and that's probably just as likely as TFC doing something about this.

razor787
10-22-2010, 10:06 AM
I think he means that if someone is going to the MLS Cup that maybe it's time they stop posting in this thread and move to another.

This thread should be left to those that are not going and want to discuss what they are doing.

I know. I just don't see why a discussion can't happen. Obviously the two sides aren't going to agree on what to do, but it is still a place for people to explain their thoughs and likes/dislikes about a move that the group is doing.

Fort York Redcoat
10-22-2010, 10:08 AM
I don't see why there should be two threads. It's a discussion about it.

My point is if your just attending the game there is not much else to discuss or decide. There are people torn about what else to do.

trane
10-22-2010, 10:10 AM
You honestly think that will happen? Not a chance. The league will pocket your money (thank you very much), and those who don't show up will look like ingrates.

MLS is not the enemy. ML$E isn't even an enemy. Incompetent? Yes. Greedy? Yes. But they brought us an MLS team when nobody else would and took a huge financial risk to do so, and they want to do things right the second time around. It's time to give these incompetents a chance, maybe they'll get the GM hire right this time, by accident most likely than deliberate design.

Anyways, I'm fed up with all this talk of protests. A protest is worthless unless it actually accomplishes something.

A bunch of people shooting off on a message board is worthless. How many people wore green? Not many.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the Cup, and I'm not burning my tickets or whatever other protest that a tiny group of people come up with, when even an excellent protest (wearing green) that had a huge number of people saying they'd go with ended up being just a handful of people witha a few flecks of green throughout the stadium.

I didn't buy TFC tickets to become a protester, I bought them to have fun, because I love the game. I didn't join the RPB to become a protester, I joined to have fun, because the game is more fun when you have fun together.

If being a TFC supporter means that for ever I must be protesting, count me out. I'll stop being a "supporter" and just go to the games and have fun, while you guys stand outside burning your tickets or whatever other protest you have dreamed up.

My 2 cents.

You are realy lost, you figure that you have figured it out, but you realy do not get it. I have stopped attending games, because I have seen this club being raped for four years, I said enough, I am not renewing, QUESS WHAT MLSE has noticed. FINALY. We have hit them were it counts.

By the way this is the problem with the RPB, you are here to "have fun" FUCK THAT, supporters are here to push there club toward bigger and better things, not to accept sub par shite, just so that we can have fun.
Not to make excuses for the FO, not to be fooled by PR exercises by the FO.

Anselmi and MLSE have taken us for a ride for four years, and you continues to take it. I am done takening it. I am done pretending.

Have fun SUPPORTING TWO TEAMS THAT PLAY AGAINST US, TWO TEAMS WHOSE SUPPORTERS HATE US. Real supporters will either not attend, burn their tickets, OR protest loudly and clearly in the stadium. Not go it and enjoy a game to which our club at this pace will never make.

razor787
10-22-2010, 10:13 AM
My point is if your just attending the game there is not much else to discuss or decide. There are people torn about what else to do.

Same thing goes for those that won't go. Either you do or you don't. And I don't think there is really much point of doing anything outside the stadium, because let's face it. There would only be a small handful of people that would go there, to protest outside during the game.

And the people that are torn, seeing people discuss their views will help make up their own mind, instead of seeing discussion from just one viewpoint

tfcleeds
10-22-2010, 10:14 AM
I'm not suggesting closing the thread, but I think both sides have been stated very well by various individuals. If this thread is just going to turn into a pissing contest, I don't see how that is a positive thing.

Me? I'm not going. I'm not going because I have no desire to see a game at BMO that potentially could be between two teams I hate and don't want to see lift the MLS Cup, let alone at our stadium. And, I'm doing it as one last "Trudeau salute" to MLSE for not making it optional and before I turn the page on this sorry season, and look towards 2011.

Section 117
10-22-2010, 10:17 AM
Trane - My question to you who is a self proclaimed "real supporter" What are you upset about price or product?

Trane so I take it you are renewing, but not going to the game which makes you real right. So you are still going to be getting "raped" and you are stil real....

Really?? WTF is that??? Maybe you should get a bacalava and some flares maybe then you will be more real or more of supporter

DichioTFC
10-22-2010, 10:20 AM
Interesting article with Don Garber and his dealings with MLSE (posted this in Today's news, but feel it should be here as well for discussion).

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/40079/don-garber-we-look-at-everything.html


SOCCER AMERICA: You were in Toronto Tuesday to start up the publicity for MLS Cup, right after owner-operator Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment (MLSE) backtracked on another increase of ticket prices and held “Town Hall’ meetings with its fans. Where does the situation stand?

DON GARBER: MLSE made that decision to raise prices and they did this in July, they were in sixth place [overall] and hadn’t been knocked out of Concacaf, and were having some success at home. They made an announcement, it turned out not to be the right one, and they corrected it quickly.

The good thing that came out of it is that they listened to their fans and recognized they made a bad decision, and they changed it. Good for them. I think it’s a positive, not a negative.

SA: Do you think this will blow over quickly with MLSE’s change of plans or will it adversely affect ticket sales and attendance for MLS Cup?

GARBER: I certainly hope not. Those are two questions; one is will it pass? I believe it will, because I think Toronto, as part of this process, gets closer to its fans and probably communicates with them more regularly and probably goes through a more interactive process when they make decisions. And I’m certainly hopeful it has no affect on MLS Cup sales.

SA: Before they launched as expansion teams, Seattle and Philadelphia executives and staff members were in contact with their counterparts in Toronto to research their methods and hear their ideas in many areas, including the interaction with fan groups. Has TFC lost touch with its most ardent fans?

GARBER: The close communication that Philadelphia and Seattle have with their fans is based on the close communication that Toronto has had with their fans since the beginning. They just got a bit disconnected and have had four years’ lack of success on the field.

[Director of business operations] Paul Beirne, before the team was launched, was dealing with the Red Patch Boys. They were involved with the branding and where the stadium would be. He’s had discussions with the supporters’ group on a regular basis, so this is something that didn’t just happen, not at all.

Maybe it’s not so much that they were disconnected but they misread the situation that was bubbling up among their most avid fans. That’s probably a better way of saying it.

trane
10-22-2010, 10:26 AM
^ I am not renewing. It is not of question of either or, it is both, for me I can afford the rise in prices, so I am not personaly upset about it, BUT raising prices when the product has not improved since season one, is being raped. AND I am not going to be a politicaly correct left leaning Torontonian, for I am neither, say what you will but bacalava and flares I would not thrown upon or look down upon as many of you that have raised on the leafes have. I am OK with it, within limits.

AND yes I will not play it down anymore, I agree with the Man U supporter that commented this is a mickey mouse club, with alot of its support being PLASTIC, with supporters willingly going to a game that MOST supporters aournd the world would see as humiliating.

[By the way I am not angry, and I understand there is another view but this is how I realy feel-I have been relatively politicaly correct for four years, now I will be no more]

LONG LIVE THE KING. KING DAVE THAT IS.

Oldtimer
10-22-2010, 10:35 AM
That's fine, trane. As someone who is no longer following TFC, I guess we won't be seeing you on the board anymore. Thanks for coming. You added interesting comments.