Today's News,Tuesday,Oct.19 [Archive]

denime

10-19-2010, 05:16 AM

Mornin'

Academy Stars Train With First Team (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/10/academy-stars-train-first-team)

TFC playing for pride (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2010/10/18/15737471.html)

Dasovic Speechless On Hesmer Goal (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/10/dasovic-speechless-hesmer-goal)

TFC Town Hall Meeting - Part 2 (http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/10/tfc-town-hall-meeting-part-2/)

SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/):yum:

DichioTFC

10-19-2010, 05:47 AM

TFC playing for future contracts (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2010/10/18/15737471.html)

/fixed

Some players are playing for pride, most seem to be eager to get out of dodge and take a roadtrip to DC on the weekend.

darb

10-19-2010, 07:35 AM

Tom Anselmi was on CBC's Metro Morning this morning. The 5-or-so minute interview will be available to stream online shortly.
http://www.cbc.ca/metromorning/

Anselmi was commenting on MLSE's apology (but not actually apologizing), the town halls were great, fans are so passionate, actually 75% isn't really a big increase, consider the passion, don't worry about Leafs, Raps, we're really learning but we know what we are doing, passion passion passion.

He's a businessman that knows nothing about football.

Wagner

10-19-2010, 07:51 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/to-be-a-successful-sports-business-hide-the-business-part-2010-10

A sum of other articles.

Interesting take at the end about MLS being more corporate than other leagues.

brad

10-19-2010, 08:02 AM

Wheeler reporting a 35% SSH renewal rate...

scooter

10-19-2010, 08:09 AM

mornin d

ManUtd4ever

10-19-2010, 08:20 AM

Wheeler reporting a 35% SSH renewal rate...

I read a few anonymous posts on CBC's website yesterday that suggested as much. As I mentioned previously, I am genuinely surprised that the renewal rate is so low this close to the deadline. I know most of us have been waiting until the last minute but even then, that only reflects a fraction of the overall STH base. I doubt that the prawnies would be holding out just to prove a point. If Wheeler is accurate then TFC will be facing the realistic possibility of a 60-70% renewal rate at best, which would be nothing short of disastrous based on their initial forecast.

Perhaps Anselmi and Co. have overestimated the corporate culture in this city regarding football...

Oldtimer

10-19-2010, 08:24 AM

Wheeler reporting a 35% SSH renewal rate...

link?

Oldtimer

10-19-2010, 08:25 AM

How to build a team 101:

Giase: Red Bulls are on verge of title because of support players, not stars

Heading into the offseason, the team was without a coach and a general manager, its best player was heading into the final year of his contract, the starting goalkeeper was facing knee surgery and the club had not won a road game in 2009, going 0-13-2 away from the not-so-friendly FieldTurf of Giants Stadium.
Another year where the best you could hope for was fighting for the final wild-card spot seemed all but certain.
But a strange thing happened in December. A franchise that had a history of making all the wrong decisions finally started making some right ones.
http://www.nj.com/soccer-news/index.ssf/2010/10/giase_red_bulls_are_on_verge_o.html

Chevy

10-19-2010, 08:26 AM

Wheeler reporting a 35% SSH renewal rate...

Holy crap. I expected around 60%, maybe 50% at the absolute worst.

denime

10-19-2010, 08:29 AM

link?2nd link in 1st post .

Oldtimer

10-19-2010, 08:32 AM

2nd link in 1st post .

Thanks, missed it when I read the article.

Wow. He says its "rumoured," but still...

We really are in MetroStars mode...

Beach_Red

10-19-2010, 08:51 AM

Holy crap. I expected around 60%, maybe 50% at the absolute worst.

The renewal rate had to be really bad for there to be all these town halls and an apology. They aren't doing all this to make nice to supporters in the south end, this is full on damage control.

Beach_Red

10-19-2010, 08:53 AM

Thanks, missed it when I read the article.

Wow. He says its "rumoured," but still...

We really are in MetroStars mode...

We can only hope, then we might come out of it looking good. Of course, what turned it around in NY? How big a part did the change in ownership play?

Globetrotter

10-19-2010, 09:12 AM

Im guessing renewals will be 70-80%, closer to 80 perhaps.

maninb

10-19-2010, 09:22 AM

Im guessing renewals will be 70-80%, closer to 80 perhaps.

Absolutely NO WAY they will be 80%...they were only 90% LAST YEAR....Like it was said earlier, MLSE wouldn't be holding townhalls if they thought they could get 80%.....It'll be between 50-60 %.....TOPS!!!

James17930

10-19-2010, 09:28 AM

Wheeler reporting a 35% SSH renewal rate...

Wheeler has a bad habit of 'reporting' 'facts' that he reads on this board.

Never take anything he says seriously.

Oldtimer

10-19-2010, 09:31 AM

If it's 35% its 6K renewals. The waiting list could easily get used up and they not sell 18,000 season tickets.

Then they will have to market the MLS Cup like crazy not to lose tonnes of money.

Heathen

10-19-2010, 09:37 AM

MLS must really be panicking about the Cup final now. Of the (alleged) 6000 odd seasons that have been renewed there's probably a bunch of those who are like me and debating on not selling or using their ticket. I'm sure they'll definitely fenaigle a LA NY final now

brad

10-19-2010, 09:50 AM

Absolutely NO WAY they will be 80%...they were only 90% LAST YEAR....Like it was said earlier, MLSE wouldn't be holding townhalls if they thought they could get 80%.....It'll be between 50-60 %.....TOPS!!!

If renewals were rosy, there would be no town halls of ticket package modifications.

Beach_Red

10-19-2010, 09:59 AM

If it's 35% its 6K renewals. The waiting list could easily get used up and they not sell 18,000 season tickets.

Then they will have to market the MLS Cup like crazy not to lose tonnes of money.

There is no waiting list, they found that out last year.

The worst thing about this is that 100%of people WANT to renew. In my sectionthe for two years now people around me have been saying, "This is my last year," but at the last minute they've bought their tickets again.

But now it really is their last year, now they'e not renewing. Of the twenty people who bought tickets in year one the last two finally didn't renew this year. From 20 to 0 in four years.

SoccMan

10-19-2010, 10:00 AM

Beach_Red

10-19-2010, 10:14 AM

Well if that's the case around 6,000 k renewal, then MLSE will start losing money with TFC, and if things don't improve then bye bye TFC, bye bye BMO Field, BMO Field will be exclusive home to the Argos in about 3 to 4 years, wow how quickly a succesful franchise off the field can go down the drain, this could only happen to pro soccer here in Canada!

Why wouldn't TFC just become like most other MLS teams? How many MLS teams have many more than 6k season tickets sold? That actually seems like a pretty solid base. In years where the team does really well the rest of the stadium will sell out game-by-game (if there are seasons it does well).

Toronto Ruffrider

10-19-2010, 10:15 AM

The fact that the renewal rate is this low will only encourage SSH on the fence to not renew. There is no way that the waiting list will be able to absorb all of the departures, and if season tickets are plentiful, then the only logical reason to purchase these packages is to save money on bulk orders. Since TFC tickets are so much more difficult to dump now, a season ticket holder will only save money if he or she goes to every single game.

Heathen

10-19-2010, 10:17 AM

Well if that's the case around 6,000 k renewal, then MLSE will start losing money with TFC, and if things don't improve then bye bye TFC, bye bye BMO Field, BMO Field will be exclusive home to the Argos in about 3 to 4 years, wow how quickly a succesful franchise off the field can go down the drain, this could only happen to pro soccer here in Canada!

Well let's not start panicking just yet, a month ago the franchise was worth $100m I don't think MLSE is going to close the doors just yet. If this doesn't wake up the ownership to the fact that they're not dealing with the usual Toronto sports fans then nothing will.

Toronto Ruffrider

10-19-2010, 10:18 AM

Why wouldn't TFC just become like most other MLS teams? How many MLS teams have many more than 6k season tickets sold? That actually seems like a pretty solid base. In years where the team does really well the rest of the stadium will sell out game-by-game (if there are seasons it does well).

I wouldn't mind if this was the case, as that would force MLSE to actually market its games and price them relative to other MLS teams, not Toronto sports teams. In addition, if BMO Field had a much smaller season ticket base, then it would be a lot easier for large groups of supporters to congregate.

Suds

10-19-2010, 10:26 AM

Well let's not start panicking just yet, a month ago the franchise was worth $100m I don't think MLSE is going to close the doors just yet. If this doesn't wake up the ownership to the fact that they're not dealing with the usual Toronto sports fans then nothing will.

Agreed. No way TFC is even close to throwing in the towel. There is way too much money on the line. Any company can absorb a certain amount of loses if they believe they get back to revenues and profit in the short term.

What we are seeing is the market speaking. How MLSE will respond we will have to wait and see.

Stouffville_RPB

10-19-2010, 10:41 AM

Wheeler has a bad habit of 'reporting' 'facts' that he reads on this board.

Never take anything he says seriously.

+1
Wheeler is crap and nothing he says should be taken literally but even he usually is kind of, almost, in a way, in the general area. It may not be 35% but isn't good.

What were they saying a few weeks ago when the Man U comparisons got out there? Something about supply and demand. :lol:

There is no waiting list, they found that out last year.

There is a waiting list but it isn't full of people interested in paying over inflated prices.

Well if that's the case around 6,000 k renewal, then MLSE will start losing money with TFC, and if things don't improve then bye bye TFC, bye bye BMO Field, BMO Field will be exclusive home to the Argos in about 3 to 4 years, wow how quickly a succesful franchise off the field can go down the drain, this could only happen to pro soccer here in Canada!

It has nothing to do with Canada. It's greedy ownership.

The went to the well too many times and now it's empty. Soccer isn't the same as hockey or basketball here. You can't charge world class prices for 3rd tier product. (Well you can but not forever. Eventually you have to put your money where your mouth is.)

Toronto Ruffrider

10-19-2010, 10:49 AM

There is a waiting list but it isn't full of people interested in paying over inflated prices.

I'd imagine that the fans on the waiting list who were serious about purchasing season tickets are just as angry as the fans who had seasons. Regardless of whether or not part of the waiting list is genuine, season tickets will not sell out, not by a long shot.

Stouffville_RPB

10-19-2010, 10:51 AM

I'd imagine that the fans on the waiting list who were serious about purchasing season tickets are just as angry as the fans who had seasons. Regardless of whether or not part of the waiting list is genuine, season tickets will not sell out, not by a long shot.

That's true too. I'm on there and I'm pissed.

DangerRed

10-19-2010, 10:58 AM

Globetrotter

10-19-2010, 11:20 AM

Im guessing renewals will be 70-80%, closer to 80 perhaps.

for two years now people around me have been saying, "This is my last year," but at the last minute they've bought their tickets again.

This is why I'm saying it will get up over 70%. People ON THIS FORUM are saying they dont want to renew... but how many are waiting for the last minute? Some are doing so on purpose too.

I was on the Gardiner at about the 60th minute this past Saturday and looked into the stadium. There was a hell of a lot more people at the game than you might have expected going by stuff you read on this forum.

Renewals won't crack 90%, but being under 70% would be surprising.

Futbolista

10-19-2010, 11:21 AM

I hope they lose money and think about selling it. There is going to be plenty of buyers in this city able to afford and win.......!

ExiledRed

10-19-2010, 11:45 AM

Hessmers goal against us is all over the net. Goalie Scores!

We pay large for this kind of humiliation you know.

Pookie

10-19-2010, 12:02 PM

Beach_Red

10-19-2010, 12:24 PM

What I don't get is that the game is about a month away. Where is all the marketing to promote this game?

There really hasn't been any. Even during the World Cup there wasn't a singe mention of this game. This was probably the best year to market this game in this city and there's been nothing.

It really does look like they felt all they had to do was include it in the season ticket packages and that would sell out the stadium.

Pookie

10-19-2010, 12:30 PM

There is no way that the renewal rate is 35% right now. It'll land between 75-80% but the big "what if" is the waiting list. If you're a SSH and you're not renewing, then what about some guy who's seen the shit unfold this season, another round of increases and the weak economy? Expect a rather empty North End next year yet again.

... except have you ever seen them organize a series of town hall meetings involving the VP, interim GM, etc for the Leafs or Raptors because of poor performance or fan unrest?

Something is driving that.

Th increased supply of tickets that we have experienced, both on the resale and through the North End, are a function of the price being too high.

In simple economics terms, this is a bit of a problem for MLSE because of the elasticity of demand for TFC tickets.

- This is somewhat of a "luxury" good
- There are plenty of "entertainment" alternatives
- As price has risen, the cost of tickets has taken up a large percentage of their target market's disposable income.
- In the short run, demand doesn't change much in response to a price change. But over the longer run, people have time to notice and then respond to price changes.

All of that contribute to a scenario in which the demand for tickets could be considered highly elastic. Meaning that price sensitivity is a definite feature of this market and gives credibility to Wheeler's 35% figure.

brad

10-19-2010, 12:32 PM

This is why I'm saying it will get up over 70%. People ON THIS FORUM are saying they dont want to renew... but how many are waiting for the last minute? Some are doing so on purpose too.

Most people in the stadium don't post on forums.

Lots of people in the more expensive seats are getting priced out due to a combination of price hikes and the drop in demand for their extras.

Most of those people aren't playing games with their ticket renewal. They simply don't see value in purchasing seasons anymore.

This doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will stop attending, but the ticket equation has shifted. Take the morality argument about scalpers out (which most Toronto sports fans don't care about). Seasons in lots of areas of the stadium no longer represent value. It makes a lot of financial sense to drop your expensive seasons and pick up below cost scalper tickets for the games you can attend. This is especially true if you don't attend all the games, and were subsidizing the cost by selling extras.

I was on the Gardiner at about the 60th minute this past Saturday and looked into the stadium. There was a hell of a lot more people at the game than you might have expected going by stuff you read on this forum.

I assume that you are aware that stadium security was giving out tickets for free on Saturday.

brad

10-19-2010, 12:36 PM

... except have you ever seen them organize a series of town hall meetings involving the VP, interim GM, etc for the Leafs or Raptors because of poor performance or fan unrest?

Something is driving that.

You forgot the most telling sign. MLSE lowered the price and is giving people money back (even though its smoke and mirrors). They would never do that (or the things you mentioned) if all was rosy.

werewolf

10-19-2010, 01:28 PM

Hessmers goal against us is all over the net. Goalie Scores!

We pay large for this kind of humiliation you know.

462 000 + views on the most popular youtube link.

Not something that happens often; when it comes to TFC anything is possible!

Suds

10-19-2010, 01:39 PM

Tweet from John Molinaro -

Back from media lunch with Don Garber. He had some interesting things to say about TFC situation. story to follow.

Looking forward to reading his report.

menefreghista

10-19-2010, 01:49 PM

This is why I'm saying it will get up over 70%.

I think even 70% will be a bit of a disaster for MLSE.

That would mean that they only renewed 11,200 seats.

Firstly, that would leave them with about a month to sell 10,000 MLS Cup tickets. Considering all the bad publicity of the last few weeks the event might seem tainted now. Add to the fact that they have done zero advertising.

Than they will have to sell about 6800 season ticket seats to reach their 18,000 target. Considering most of those seats will be $1000+ I don't know if they can do it.

CretanBull

10-19-2010, 02:17 PM

A percentage wasn't given, but Paul refered to the renewal rate as "abysmal".

Roogsy

10-19-2010, 02:20 PM

Tweet from John Molinaro -

Back from media lunch with Don Garber. He had some interesting things to say about TFC situation. story to follow.

Looking forward to reading his report.

Oh that John! Always giving us a teaser before delivering the goods!

Wagner

10-19-2010, 02:31 PM

Oh that John! Always giving us a teaser before delivering the goods!

but it worked...i NEED to read this...
i hope it lives up to the hype.

John, when will it be ready???

DangerRed

10-19-2010, 02:33 PM

... except have you ever seen them organize a series of town hall meetings involving the VP, interim GM, etc for the Leafs or Raptors because of poor performance or fan unrest?

Something is driving that.

Th increased supply of tickets that we have experienced, both on the resale and through the North End, are a function of the price being too high.

In simple economics terms, this is a bit of a problem for MLSE because of the elasticity of demand for TFC tickets.

- This is somewhat of a "luxury" good
- There are plenty of "entertainment" alternatives
- As price has risen, the cost of tickets has taken up a large percentage of their target market's disposable income.
- In the short run, demand doesn't change much in response to a price change. But over the longer run, people have time to notice and then respond to price changes.

All of that contribute to a scenario in which the demand for tickets could be considered highly elastic. Meaning that price sensitivity is a definite feature of this market and gives credibility to Wheeler's 35% figure.

There has been a decline in season tickets/ticket sales. That's true. The magnitude of that decline doesn't have to be in the 50-60% range before MLSE start making apologies to fans and do townhalls. Any decline whatsoever is cause for deep concern in a business if it cannot be explained by systemic factors (ie macroeconomic, regulatory, etc). If profitability drops 5% anywhere, it's a big deal.

Why hasn't this happened with the Leafs? I imagine it's because there has never been a decline in Maple Leaf ticket sales. Every game, as I understand it, has sold out since the 1950s. Please correct me if I'm wrong, or if I missed some disaster in the last five decades that affected attendance (I don't follow hockey).

Pookie

10-19-2010, 02:46 PM

There has been a decline in season tickets/ticket sales. That's true. The magnitude of that decline doesn't have to be in the 50-60% range before MLSE start making apologies to fans and do townhalls. Any decline whatsoever is cause for deep concern in a business if it cannot be explained by systemic factors (ie macroeconomic, regulatory, etc). If profitability drops 5% anywhere, it's a big deal.

Hold on.

These are smart guys. If the waiting list is as big as they claim it to be, there is no cause for panic until you've gone through the Gold and Red lists.

A drop of 5-10% could, or should, easily be made up through the wait list.

It stands to reason that there is panic, leading to action, because the renewal rate (at present and could be influenced by the deadline) is trending well below last year. And this big wait list, either doesn't exist, or won't be enough to make up the shortfall.

Why hasn't this happened with the Leafs? I imagine it's because there has never been a decline in Maple Leaf ticket sales.

Exactly. (we are arguing the same thing)

The Leafs have seen declines in renewals but are usually in the 90% range, year in and year out. A good portion of that is because they have sold Personal Seat Licenses that have the provision that if the owner chooses not to renew their seats they give up the PSL and the right to future tickets.

Simply put, they don't visit with Leaf fans because they don't have to.

They visit with us because the numbers are much lower than they think they should be.

I'd argue the numbers are exactly a function of how they mis-read pricing in this market.

Auzzy

10-19-2010, 03:02 PM

I also agree that the renewal rate doesn't have to be very low to cause significant worry for management. Remember there's the relocation event for existing season ticket holders, before the seats get offered to people off the waiting lists. If there's a significant number of seats not renewed & available at different price points for the relocation events, then many SSH'ers in the top three major prices classes will be looking to downgrade. It probably allows for more mobility than the FO would want. Add to that the new North End season tickets, which may also be attractive for some of the top three prices classes if they're looking to save some cash.

In turn that means lots of those expensive seats would be offered to the waiting lists -- likely showing how soft those lists are. As a gold-lister, I sure as hell wouldn't want seasons tickets anywhere above medium gray -- and would really prefer light gray, also considering the new prices & how hard it has been to get rid of tickets this season.

mastermixer

10-19-2010, 03:06 PM

Has anyone asked for real numbers for this waiting list at the town hall meetings? And also if they know that most people on that list are looking for the lowest price tickets if any?

Petor

10-19-2010, 03:08 PM

TheKing7

10-19-2010, 03:14 PM

:flare: Rooney for DP :flare:

TorCanSoc

10-19-2010, 03:22 PM

I am sold on one thing, watching soccer as an awesome way to enjoy a Saturday afternoon. MLSE has got one thing, a monopoly. There are no "big leauge" alternatives. I've been here since day 1, and I'm ready to look for alternative teams to support.

If all the internet rumblings have any substance, we could see some NASL teams within driving distance of the GTA, I'm reading Hamilton or Mississauga kind of thing. I know its all far in the future, and based on TFC sh*t'n the bed for another three years. But if there is a west-end alternative to pro football, and TFC continues on this path destruction, I'll take the alternative. Can the same be said of the guys in the north end of the city? East?

DangerRed

10-19-2010, 03:33 PM

Hold on.

These are smart guys. If the waiting list is as big as they claim it to be, there is no cause for panic until you've gone through the Gold and Red lists.

A drop of 5-10% could, or should, easily be made up through the wait list.

It stands to reason that there is panic, leading to action, because the renewal rate (at present and could be influenced by the deadline) is trending well below last year. And this big wait list, either doesn't exist, or won't be enough to make up the shortfall.

The waiting list has been and always will be nothing but a marketing tool designed to stimulate demand. This isn't an opinion. I would argue that significant evidence exists to prove this to be the case.

For starters, you need to do precisely nothing to be on the waiting list. You submit your email address, create and account, and presto -- there you are.

Now, if the existing season ticket holders, who have committed in many cases thousands of very real dollars to this team are waffling on renewals, what makes you think someone who took 5 minutes to fill out an e-form (and still saw the junk on the pitch this season) is more committed? Those on the waiting list are the proverbial birds in the bush, or a chicken before it has hatched, or whatever cliched metaphor you'd prefer.

I would suggest BMO is beholden to the season ticket holder base because there are no more than a couple thousand committed people on the waiting list. If you're dipping into that to backfill the stadium because season ticket holders aren't renewing, you're in significant trouble.

That's why there are townhalls, that's why there are apologies. A small dip in the season ticket renewal rate is all it takes when that's all you've got.

Toronto Ruffrider

10-19-2010, 03:37 PM

Exactly. (we are arguing the same thing)

The Leafs have seen declines in renewals but are usually in the 90% range, year in and year out. A good portion of that is because they have sold Personal Seat Licenses that have the provision that if the owner chooses not to renew their seats they give up the PSL and the right to future tickets.

Simply put, they don't visit with Leaf fans because they don't have to.

They visit with us because the numbers are much lower than they think they should be.

I'd argue the numbers are exactly a function of how they mis-read pricing in this market.

The SSH renewal rate for the Leafs is much higher than that. I am on the Leafs season ticket waiting list, and for one season a few years ago only four tickets in the entire arena weren't renewed. If you give up Leafs season tickets, you will never get them back. EVER.

Everything else in your post is spot on.

Carts

10-19-2010, 03:40 PM

:flare: Rooney for DP :flare:

Based on his reported relations with prostitutes, I think he's probably achieved that goal already...

Carts... :D

Pookie

10-19-2010, 03:41 PM

^ if the product is priced right, a 5-10% drop in season seats is nothing to worry about.

Remember too that this is a FO that has enjoyed the partial pack sales, with and without Marlies, in the 1000's.

I believe that the elasticity of demand is finally catching up and a drop along the lines of Wheeler's tweet, with the looming embarrassment of the MLS Cup is plausible. That is the only reason that a VP would go out for a series of difficult meetings with fans, and spend more time on the radio/TV than ever before.

DangerRed

10-19-2010, 03:44 PM

CretanBull

10-19-2010, 03:50 PM

Based on his reported relations with prostitutes, I think he's probably achieved that goal already...

Carts... :D

Ji-cT58rgNc

Pookie

10-19-2010, 03:50 PM

The SSH renewal rate for the Leafs is much higher than that. I am on the Leafs season ticket waiting list, and for one season a few years ago only four tickets in the entire arena weren't renewed. If you give up Leafs season tickets, you will never get them back. EVER.

Everything else in your post is spot on.

Keep in mind though that the "renewal" picture isn't the complete one.

MLSE has created an alternative market for season tickets. Fans have paid tens of thousands of dollars for a Personal Seat License and a clause MLSE included in that PSL is that if they didn't renew, the right to buy season tickets would disappear.

Fans thus renew in order to keep the right to buy future tickets.

They have assured themselves of a steady stream of renewals based on the concept of being "vested" in their tickets.

The Leafs are just 1 of 3 NHL teams, and 1 of 3 NBA teams to go the PSL route.

My hope is that the protest and lower renewals have shown them that PSLs WILL NOT WORK FOR TFC.... EVER!

Pookie

10-19-2010, 03:54 PM

I'm not going to argue further. Here's a gentlemen's bet that you're wrong and that season-ticket renewals will be well north of 75% at the very least. We've not got long to go till we find out.

Hard to bet with you as I think they'll end up in the 60-70% range by the time they hit the Gold/Red Lists. I think there will be a flood of last minute renewals.

But I have no reason to doubt that they are near where Wheeler supposedly suggested as of 4:54pm today.

As for Wheeler always being wrong... ask Mista over a pint if he and Preki ever had a disagreement as was reported and then squashed by TFC

JonO

10-19-2010, 04:11 PM

I'm not going to argue further. Here's a gentlemen's bet that you're wrong and that season-ticket renewals will be well north of 75% at the very least. We've not got long to go till we find out.

For all the bitching and complaining on this board, everyone will renew at least some of their tickets. There is just a handful of people on here you can quote that are SSHs and not renewing anything.

If you extrapolate that further to BMO as a whole, you don't get to 35%. Not for the first time, Wheeler is wrong.
As already alluded to by Pookie, there is no way of knowing how many people have already renewed vs how will have renewed come Friday. I know a few people who aren't renewing, but almost everyone I know who is renewing is waiting as long as possible. The 35% is very plausible in my opinion

denime

10-19-2010, 04:15 PM

Hard to bet with you as I think they'll end up in the 60-70% range by the time they hit the Gold/Red Lists. I think there will be a flood of last minute renewals.

But I have no reason to doubt that they are near where Wheeler supposedly suggested as of 4:54pm today.

As for Wheeler always being wrong... ask Mista over a pint if he and Preki ever had a disagreement as was reported and then squashed by TFC

Friend of mine is on the RED List and he was already contacted.

Yagbod

10-19-2010, 04:21 PM

Hold on. Are you saying you have a friend on the Red list that was already offered season's tickets?!?

Toronto Ruffrider

10-19-2010, 04:35 PM

Keep in mind though that the "renewal" picture isn't the complete one.

MLSE has created an alternative market for season tickets. Fans have paid tens of thousands of dollars for a Personal Seat License and a clause MLSE included in that PSL is that if they didn't renew, the right to buy season tickets would disappear.

Fans thus renew in order to keep the right to buy future tickets.

They have assured themselves of a steady stream of renewals based on the concept of being "vested" in their tickets.

The Leafs are just 1 of 3 NHL teams, and 1 of 3 NBA teams to go the PSL route.

My hope is that the protest and lower renewals have shown them that PSLs WILL NOT WORK FOR TFC.... EVER!

Even before MLSE introduced PSLs, the waiting list was ridiculously long - i.e. 20 years. Also, as far as I know SSHs don't need a PSL if transferring their season tickets to another family member. A friend of mine has Leafs season tickets, and I can ask her if this is true.

denime

10-19-2010, 04:57 PM

Hold on. Are you saying you have a friend on the Red list that was already offered season's tickets?!?

Yes, I do.Why?

BASE

10-19-2010, 05:01 PM

I'm on the waiting list....about 10,000 times so i really have to question the integrity of the number that is thrown out by the club!!!

nobuzz

10-19-2010, 05:05 PM

Yes, I do.Why?
Probably because him, like me, is on the gold list and I have not recieved any call about purchasign tickets.

I also know that I am fairly high on the gold list as my appointment times have always been in the first 2 days.

If they are offering tickets to people below us on the list then that is fucked.

DangerRed

10-19-2010, 05:06 PM

Yes, I do.Why?

That's hilarious -- I bought a ransom pack this season so I'm technically on the gold, and they're already out offering tickets to the Red list?

Good thing I don't plan on buying season tickets next year!

The wheels are falling off the TFC crazy train!!

denime

10-19-2010, 05:14 PM

Probably because him, like me, is on the gold list and I have not recieved any call about purchasign tickets.

I also know that I am fairly high on the gold list as my appointment times have always been in the first 2 days.

If they are offering tickets to people below us on the list then that is fucked.
To be honest I'll ask him about that list,but I don't see why 40+ years old Dr. would lie.I'm sure he said red list.