Post-Protest debrief and discussion

[Parkdale]

Hey guys,

let's keep all the post-protest talk in this thread

Here's a post-game thread on actual game talk (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25028)
And here's the news thread with some write ups from the press (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25036)

So what was your take on the day's events?






my opinions now...

I was incredibly pleased with the response the actions got. There were tons of people in green, a huge amount of compliance inside 112 and (most importantly in my opinion) a great deal of banners and signs built just for the occasion. It was great to see all the efforts that people took on by themselves in order to voice their opinions. We showed that we are well organized as a group, but also that people are pissed off as individuals, and are willing to express that. Great stuff!

referring back to the news thread links, it's become very clear that the press hears our frustrations. Now let's just hope that MLSE brass hears it and does what they have to do (build a winner at all costs and understand that rising ticket costs will kill this club)


so what was your take on the day's events? From the other sections? From 112? From TV at home? What made an impact with you?

[London]

this should be continued untill we are forced out of the stadium or change happens

if they want to sell there product on my shoulders, i at least want a cut of the profits.


who wants to be my agent?

[H Bomb]

Great job. Nee and 112 really did a good job yesterday, giving the whole place an early feel. I will say I was disappointed there werent more two sticks. Theyre easy and cheap...and more would have been better. I also was/am embarrassed for u sec. They looked like a bunch of monkeys yesterday. Overall well done, dont let it stop here.

[Parkdale]

who wants to be my agent?


me, but my cut is 90%


Personally, I can't wait to put all this behind us and move on to cheering for the reds, so my hope is that BIG things happen in the off season that give me a reason to believe.

If TFC's first game is out in Vancouver this year (please please please) I will be there, but NOT if I feel that nothing has improved over the off-season.

[Yeoman]

Great job. Nee and 112 really did a good job yesterday, giving the whole place an early feel. I will say I was disappointed there werent more two sticks. Theyre easy and cheap...and more would have been better. I also was/am embarrassed for u sec. They looked like a bunch of monkeys yesterday. Overall well done, dont let it stop here.

so what's your reason for not making one hbomb?

[H Bomb]

I made three

[Yeoman]

so...............................i saw our three, and i saw one in what was 110?
just don't think you can come out on here and say that and think you're getting away scott free.
you want it? do it yourself and stop riding our coat tails.
we will do what we want, to the level we want.

[Parkdale]

let's not make this about who made what.

lots of people put in lots of work for this one. I think HBomb's statement was more of a general observation - that i agree with - more people can make more banners - which I think is also yeoman's point. We all need to step up for things like this.

[sulfur]

Yeoman: Talk about what went right, stop accusing people and beating them down. That's what pisses people off and makes them not want to get involved.

In terms of seeing the game on telly, as I noted in both the game and post-game threads:

It was quiet. The CBC guys kept talking about it. Kept showing the banners. The only singing that could be heard was Dichio23, and it was a shadow of its normal self. I'm told that U-Sector was singing for much of the game -- on telly it was not audible. The TRN drumming started around the 25th (or so) and was audible on and off throughout the match.

[H Bomb]

Hey man. One in 112 was done by me. 2 in 115. im not a member of the group and did that without much effort or cost. Is all im sayin.

[H Bomb]

Parkys right, its a generalization. And dont worry guys, what yoeman wasnt offensive at all. Its true, just up to yall to figure out what that level will be.

[London]

Hey man. One in 112 was done by me. 2 in 115. im not a member of the group and did that without much effort or cost. Is all im sayin.

and we thank your efforts!!

hopefully people that did not hear of this will join next match, and on and on and on.

lets leave a GREEN STAIN on them

[denime]

so...............................i saw our three, and i saw one in what was 110?
just don't think you can come out on here and say that and think you're getting away scott free.
you want it? do it yourself and stop riding our coat tails.
we will do what we want, to the level we want.



H-Bomb had two in 115 :picard:

[CoachGT]

Hearing (or not hearing) the stadium yesterday was surreal and it should have shaken a few trees. I wonder if any of the higher ups realize that strong, vocal fan support might have been what was needed to push TFC to the win instread of settling for a draw? When cbc start using the prawnie seats for the displays of fan emotion you know that they were hard up.

The concentration of green in the corners was noticeable. The smattering of green elsewhere less so, but I saw more greeen in the central areas than I expected.

It felt like going to a hockey game yesterday.

[wzhxvy]

Congrats...I thought it was excellent and meaningful. Good job to everyone who participated and helped.

[Workie]

so...............................i saw our three, and i saw one in what was 110?
just don't think you can come out on here and say that and think you're getting away scott free.
you want it? do it yourself and stop riding our coat tails.
we will do what we want, to the level we want.


Blow that right out your ass
Hbomb made 3!

You need to pry your self off the cross one day and come walk with the paupers some time.

Get a grip.

[Bluenose13]

Hey man. One in 112 was done by me. 2 in 115. im not a member of the group and did that without much effort or cost. Is all im sayin.Well done Matt!

I know you don't agree with all things RPB but it's nice to see when you do, you step up to make a difference.

[sully]

I was glad to be a rpb member yesterday.

It's up to MLSE now.

[maximo_rpd]

Until we see MLSE relent and provide a MLS-only ticket package at 2009 pricing, we cannot be sure of success, but the results of the protest to date have been fantastic - nobody could even dream of the coverage...

National TV coverage, many large write ups in the newpapers including a two page spread in the Star and NY Times coverage today. The "green" and the "silent" protests have been noted and covered on national TV and newpapers. MLSE greed has been noted as well - All media commentators are asking Tommy A about the pricing of the ticket package and the inclusion of the extra games. A 2 1/2 hour national show case coverage of the product on the field - I doubt there has ever been a professional football game WHERE BOTH GOALKEEPERS SCORED! Not only that but I went to the fights yesterday afternoon and a soccer game broke out... The game itself rested our case on the quality on the field - 30% increase on the ticket package? Even the public is saying - only a donkey would renew... This will have grave, grave impression upon this mythical waiting list...

110% success so far! The question is: can MLSE lumber around fast enough to salvage the fan base ... only financial pressure by not buying season tickets and bad press can move them off the pot...

Don't give up! They could do one of their "sorry" emails in November with a much better package, in order to get us back - Don't lose hope and don't give in! They could delay going to the waiting list until January if they have to....

:scarf::canada::drum::taz::grouphug::party:

[koryo]

Until we see MLSE relent and provide a MLS-only ticket package at 2009 pricing, we cannot be sure of success, but the results of the protest to date have been fantastic - nobody could even dream of the coverage...

National TV coverage, many large write ups in the newpapers including a two page spread in the Star and NY Times coverage today. The "green" and the "silent" protests have been noted and covered on national TV and newpapers. MLSE greed has been noted as well - All media commentators are asking Tommy A about the pricing of the ticket package and the inclusion of the extra games. A 2 1/2 hour national show case coverage of the product on the field - I doubt there has ever been a professional football game WHERE BOTH GOALKEEPERS SCORED! Not only that but I went to the fights yesterday afternoon and a soccer game broke out... The game itself rested our case on the quality on the field - 30% increase on the ticket package? Even the public is saying - only a donkey would renew... This will have grave, grave impression upon this mythical waiting list...

110% success so far! The question is: can MLSE lumber around fast enough to salvage the fan base ... only financial pressure by not buying season tickets and bad press can move them off the pot...

Don't give up! They could do one of their "sorry" emails in November with a much better package, in order to get us back - Don't lose hope and don't give in! They could delay going to the waiting list until January if they have to....

:scarf::canada::drum::taz::grouphug::party:

^^ + 1. No amount of "sorry, we're crap because we don't know what we're doing. Here's a reduced ticket package at the same rate of price increase" should be good enough. Nothing less than a prize freeze on 2010 tickets, until that lot upstairs learns how to build a good football team, will suffice.

[Parkdale]

one thing I noticed that was very different.....

shots of babies in TFC gear on the video screen (and presumably on the broadcast)

guess they got the directive not to show the corner as much as possible

[Sullivan]

The protest is winding it's way through the American soccer community too. Emails from my USSF, NSCAA and NCAA contacts all make reference to what's happening around TFC and in BMO.

They want to know more.

And I expect that when I go later this week to take in some NCAA games, I'll be hit with a lot of questions about the summit and the cup final.

My kid tells me that even some of the older "prawns" in our section took spells standing silent yesterday. And I'm talking about 3 guys in thier 60's.

[koryo]

one thing I noticed that was very different.....

shots of babies in TFC gear on the video screen (and presumably on the broadcast)

guess they got the directive not to show the corner as much as possible

Gobi and I buggered off in the 51st minute out of sheer boredom. Watched the rest of the game at Joe's and couldn't help but notice that the CBC kept most of their crowd shots to a tight-angle of the 20-or-so U-Sectors who were doing their cheering-ostensibly-to-support-the-team-but-really-just-out-of-spite. They would throw their toys out of the pram. Muppets. :D

[canadian_bhoy]

Blow that right out your ass
Hbomb made 3!

You need to pry your self off the cross one day and come walk with the paupers some time.

Get a grip.

+1

Get over yourself.

[Roogsy]

I was late to the game, walked in about 10 minutes late. Right up to the gate of BMO Field I could not hear anything coming from the crowd. It sounded like a golf tournament. I think it was highly effective.

As for the green, great compliance from 112 and I saw spatterings of green througout the all the sections of the stadium. This shows that the unhappiness does not specifically dwell only with RPB but with fans everywhere. I went to the game with a group of non-RPB who never visit their board and when I told them of the green initiative, they all joined in and wore it because they agreed with the message. There was probably a good 1000 people that wore green and to me that is successful. But more successful was the silence. If the front office does not get the message after this, they're deaf, dumb and blind.

[Darlofletch]

I really liked the NEE, during the anthem, holding up money rather than scarves.

[ManUtd4ever]

RPB protest being discussed right now on Talk 640...

[Keyman]

Props to everyone within RPB who organized this and got word out prior to yesterday. It went about as well as it could have gone. There's such a diverse array of opinions regarding what is an appropriate form of protest, and even though they were present throughout the match yesterday we managed to stay united. One announcer described the stadium as feeling like a morgue, which I thought was perfect.

[ochos]

^^^ any interesting points?

[Eastend]

I was late to the game, walked in about 10 minutes late. Right up to the gate of BMO Field I could not hear anything coming from the crowd. It sounded like a golf tournament. I think it was highly effective.

As for the green, great compliance from 112 and I saw spatterings of green througout the all the sections of the stadium. This shows that the unhappiness does not specifically dwell only with RPB but with fans everywhere. I went to the game with a group of non-RPB who never visit their board and when I told them of the green initiative, they all joined in and wore it because they agreed with the message. There was probably a good 1000 people that wore green and to me that is successful. But more successful was the silence. If the front office does not get the message after this, they're deaf, dumb and blind.

That, and the fact that there are RPB all over the stadium, not just 112. It was very strange sitting and not singing....caught myself shouting at Hesmer a few times though....couldn't help it.

[Red Rat]

I can't believe that this worked out to this level.

great job everyone.

rr

[DichioTFC]

Talking to a Crew fan earlier today, he mentioned that the "silence was deafening." The Crew fans took notice of what we're doing and were pretty appreciative / supportive of what we were trying to do.

He didn't notice the green too much (I guess it was one of those "you had to be there" type of things) but the silence was very apparent to me watching on CBC and to Crew fans.

[Pookie]

That, and the fact that there are RPB all over the stadium, not just 112. It was very strange sitting and not singing....caught myself shouting at Hesmer a few times though....couldn't help it.

^ what is interesting is that although we are a "small minority" in relation to the 21,000 fans, we (along with NEE) were able to affect the mood of the majority.

I do think that we, as a collective, need to keep out on top of this and ensure that the underlying issues stay the underlying issues.

The media has picked it up and Anselmi is trying to spin this as simply a "package" issue. They shouldn't have included some games in the package. If that becomes THE issue, we've lost and they win. They know they will sell us those games next year if they qualify.

Anselmi is also spinning it as a "winning fixes everything" approach. If they had better performance, we wouldn't be pissed off about prices. Apparently, we'd gladly line up to drop our renewal $$$ in their pockets. Oh, and probably pay a little extra for playoffs too... just like their other sports "properties."

This is about being the highest priced ticket in all of MLS in the majority of sections. This is the about the future of soccer in Toronto if the average fan is priced out.

This is about a failed reporting structure that includes Anselmi and Peddie for some God unknown reason as the final decision points within the Club. Didn't work with the Leafs, Raptors and our 4 seasons here.

Stay focused on those issues. Counter the spin. Anselmi and MLSE own media outlets. They have significant influence over others. Don't let this become a story about 2 games in a package or upset over performance.

It is much, much more than that.

[koryo]

^ what is interesting is that although we are a "small minority" in relation to the 21,000 fans, we (along with NEE) were able to affect the mood of the majority.

I do think that we, as a collective, need to keep out on top of this and ensure that the underlying issues stay the underlying issues.

The media has picked it up and Anselmi is trying to spin this as simply a "package" issue. They shouldn't have included some games in the package. If that becomes THE issue, we've lost and they win. They know they will sell us those games next year if they qualify.

Anselmi is also spinning it as a "winning fixes everything" approach. If they had better performance, we wouldn't be pissed off about prices. Apparently, we'd gladly line up to drop our renewal $$$ in their pockets. Oh, and probably pay a little extra for playoffs too... just like their other sports "properties."

This is about being the highest priced ticket in all of MLS in the majority of sections. This is the about the future of soccer in Toronto if the average fan is priced out.

This is about a failed reporting structure that includes Anselmi and Peddie for some God unknown reason as the final decision points within the Club. Didn't work with the Leafs, Raptors and our 4 seasons here.

Stay focused on those issues. Counter the spin. Anselmi and MLSE own media outlets. They have significant influence over others. Don't let this become a story about 2 games in a package or upset over performance.

It is much, much more than that.

Post of the day. Very well said.

[cmonyoureds]

we were at the top of 111 which is usually fairly quiet but still has some atmosphere. with RPB quiet, it was dead. total and complete lack of anything. could not hear NEE at all, although some have pointed out that they were singing. TRN drums were faint but audible.
yesterday was a pretty crazy game, yet without the usual fun and games in stands, i really thought i could have watched it at home. THE ONFIELD PRODUCT WITHOUT STADIUM ATMOSPHERE IS NOT WORTH THE TRIP TO T.O.
If the protest was to show the F.O. what their product looks/sounds like without the SG's, it was without a doubt 100% effective.

Having said that, if I'm the front office, I'm thinking "wow, that was terrible, i can't wait till this blows over and they start the whole chanting/drumming/singing thing again"

To be truly, truly, effective, IMO, even if you renew, you need to be doing the exact same thing until the front office blinks first. Otherwise, really, you/we will be having 1 game protests every year. Are you looking for a first round black eye for MLSE, or a 10 round TKO for the SG's?

[Nestease]

I wonder how TFC sponsors feel with all the negative press now. Do you want your product associated with a team that is ripping people off? Maybe i'd buy a Kia if they weren't in a partnership with an organization that's fisting me in the ass. Does Purolator want the image of people tossing their game balls out of the stadium? Maybe Broil King is just like TFC, overpriced piece of shit hiding behind some image of greatness. Maybe it's time to start boycotting the sponsors.

[cmonyoureds]

I wonder how TFC sponsors feel with all the negative press now. Do you want your product associated with a team that is ripping people off? Maybe i'd buy a Kia if they weren't in a partnership with an organization that's fisting me in the ass. Does Purolator want the image of people tossing their game balls out of the stadium? Maybe Broil King is just like TFC, overpriced piece of shit hiding behind some image of greatness. Maybe it's time to start boycotting the sponsors.

for the record, and off topic - apologies - they sent securtiy out to take that ball back from the guy who was almost hit in the head with it when it came over the wall. he thought he had a souvenir until they came running out after it.

[DichioTFC]

^ I think boycotting sponsors is a valid option, but just not right now. If we're still having the same problems early next season as we are right now, we can definitely use that tactic.

Let's not play our entire hand at once

[maximo_rpd]

To be truly, truly, effective, IMO, even if you renew, you need to be doing the exact same thing until the front office blinks first. Otherwise, really, you/we will be having 1 game protests every year. Are you looking for a first round black eye for MLSE, or a 10 round TKO for the SG's?

Bang on!

[maximo_rpd]

I wonder how TFC sponsors feel with all the negative press now. Do you want your product associated with a team that is ripping people off? Maybe i'd buy a Kia if they weren't in a partnership with an organization that's fisting me in the ass. Does Purolator want the image of people tossing their game balls out of the stadium? Maybe Broil King is just like TFC, overpriced piece of shit hiding behind some image of greatness. Maybe it's time to start boycotting the sponsors.

What do you think will happen when the Bank of Montreal realizes the stadium was actually named after our first coach - Bastard MO?

[BFin]

You could hear U-Sector.

The green was less prominent than the Red Seats.

The focus on TV was on Anselmi interviews.

All in all, it may have pissed off PB, but on TV it was not overly effective.

[BFin]

^ I think boycotting sponsors is a valid option, but just not right now. If we're still having the same problems early next season as we are right now, we can definitely use that tactic.

Let's not play our entire hand at once

Entire hand? I'm sorry but when has boycotting Unico Pasta Sauce sent a msg to MLSE? Focus on the people who own the team, and boycott the product.

[ensco]

It doesn't matter if the protest wasn't perfect. It was good enough.

It was especially more than good enough to validate the very significant media coverage being given to the story.

[King Tut]

we were at the top of 111 which is usually fairly quiet but still has some atmosphere. with RPB quiet, it was dead. total and complete lack of anything. could not hear NEE at all, although some have pointed out that they were singing. TRN drums were faint but audible.
yesterday was a pretty crazy game, yet without the usual fun and games in stands, i really thought i could have watched it at home. THE ONFIELD PRODUCT WITHOUT STADIUM ATMOSPHERE IS NOT WORTH THE TRIP TO T.O.
If the protest was to show the F.O. what their product looks/sounds like without the SG's, it was without a doubt 100% effective.

Having said that, if I'm the front office, I'm thinking "wow, that was terrible, i can't wait till this blows over and they start the whole chanting/drumming/singing thing again"

To be truly, truly, effective, IMO, even if you renew, you need to be doing the exact same thing until the front office blinks first. Otherwise, really, you/we will be having 1 game protests every year. Are you looking for a first round black eye for MLSE, or a 10 round TKO for the SG's?

No. NEE was not chanting. Whoever told you that, has no clue what they're talking about.

[BFin]

It doesn't matter if the protest wasn't perfect. It was good enough.

It was especially more than good enough to validate the very significant media coverage being given to the story.

Didn't say it was inadequate for it's purpose. Was merely stating the atmosphere on TV was not overly dead. You could hear Dichio, you could hear some of the different chants U-Sec did...stadiums emptiness definitely was visible though.

Fight for your right. To not go.

[yellowfellow]

Steve Simmons gives his thumb up for the protest.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/dave_hodge/?id=337745

[BFin]

Steve Simmons gives his thumb up for the protest.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/dave_hodge/?id=337745

"They aren't willing to overpay for losing anymore."

Are they?

[Darlofletch]

I wonder how TFC sponsors feel with all the negative press now. Do you want your product associated with a team that is ripping people off? Maybe i'd buy a Kia if they weren't in a partnership with an organization that's fisting me in the ass. Does Purolator want the image of people tossing their game balls out of the stadium? Maybe Broil King is just like TFC, overpriced piece of shit hiding behind some image of greatness. Maybe it's time to start boycotting the sponsors.

I remeber back when bmo renewed the shirt sponsorship in july, the bmo marketing woman talking about how great it is to go to a game and see the energy and everyone happily wearing their bmo jerseys, and so on and so forth.

wonder what they're thinking now.

[Sonny Cheeba]

i don't think the SG's nor Anselmi have any idea of what the next step is until October 22nd rolls by.

i'm guessing that most are still renewing their seats, although perhaps dropping a few. this protest will only be effective if it turns out that renewals drop because people realize that the loud apes aren't really loud apes and will not necessarily keep up the happy party atmosphere.

you're really going to have to hope that renewals drop by what some are expecting. or anselmi will look correct in saying that it's a package issue.

so. i ask, what will you be doing if renewals/new sth's are still pretty high, for example, say around 70-80% of the season seats sold by the 22nd. will this silence/banner storm continue into next season? what if major moves are made to better the team in the offseason? will this all be forgotten then? i seem to think it will, and april will look quite sunny in supporters sections.

i hope for more empty seats next year. it's the only real way to hurt a business, don't invest, and hope that most follow suit. the only thing you'd have to worry about then is the team folding i suppose.

[Sonny Cheeba]

"They aren't willing to overpay for losing anymore."

Are they?

i agree.... seats will be sold. it's more like "they aren't happy with the prices, but aren't willing to lose their seats".

i think the silence/protest is great that it got attention, but where does it go from here?

[BFin]

I remeber back when bmo renewed the shirt sponsorship in july, the bmo marketing woman talking about how great it is to go to a game and see the energy and everyone happily wearing their bmo jerseys, and so on and so forth.

wonder what they're thinking now.

1) How great it is to have the stadium named after them

That is all.

BMO has millions of customers...in various aspects of finance...in various areas of the Country.

[BFin]

i agree.... seats will be sold. it's more like "they aren't happy with the prices, but aren't willing to lose their seats".

i think the silence/protest is great that it got attention, but where does it go from here?

Can't diasgree with you bro. (Great to see you back!)

Attention. Success.

Action. Stay on them.

[Sonny Cheeba]

I remeber back when bmo renewed the shirt sponsorship in july, the bmo marketing woman talking about how great it is to go to a game and see the energy and everyone happily wearing their bmo jerseys, and so on and so forth.

wonder what they're thinking now.

this negative press isn't much. having unhappy fans doesn't mean companies don't like seeing their logos along the sidelines or on the jerseys.

if we were a team of molesters, then i can see sponsors actually worrying.

[Oldtimer]

Disagree. I think that the protest is effective, despite CBC doing their best to hide it (they had the mikes turned up so loud, you could hear the players).

(1) Media outlets all over are carrying the story

(2) If TFC is no longer a "feel good" story, you can be certain that sponsors will be asking uncomfortable questions

(3) I would't be surprised in Don Garber gives Anselmi a call to find out what is going on in their "model" franchise.

All of this increases the pressure on Anselmi to fix things, which is exactly what we want.

[BFin]

Disagree. I think that the protest is effective, despite CBC doing their best to hide it (they had the mikes turned up so loud, you could hear the players).

(1) Media outlets all over are carrying the story

(2) If TFC is no longer a "feel good" story, you can be certain that sponsors will be asking uncomfortable questions

(3) I would't be surprised in Don Garber gives Anselmi a call to find out what is going on in their "model" franchise.

All of this increases the pressure on Anselmi to fix things, which is exactly what we want.

CBC covered it like nobodies business.

If TFC no longer becomes a feelgood story, you can expect it to be in the Metro newspaper and that's about it.

You can't have a point that involves a thought about Don Garber, doesn't make it a point.

[CretanBull]

If TFC no longer becomes a feelgood story, you can expect it to be in the Metro newspaper and that's about it.

Or a two page spread in todays Toronto Star or some small rag called the New York Times.

[BFin]

Or a two page spread in todays Toronto Star or some small rag called the New York Times.

Are they not a feelgood story still?

Very good job of taking action at half of a point.

[BFin]

Other end of the spectrum...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/10/16/tfc_columbus/?source=topstories

[Dave67]

so. i ask, what will you be doing if renewals/new sth's are still pretty high, for example, say around 70-80% of the season seats sold by the 22nd.

If 80% ends up being the renewal rate then the front office will be near panic mode. 80% of 16,000 is 12,880. So they would need 3,200 new STH to catch up to previous years levels. Then add in the new 2,000 STH they want to add this year. If they were to get to their desired 18,000 STH number they would end up with an almost empty waiting list. They would need 5,200 new fans to get to 18,000.

Of course that all depends on the renewal rate being 80%. The higher it goes the less the front office cares.

As for what we do if the number ends up higher. Who knows. If the people in the expensive seats are ready to renew regardless of cost I don't think we can win. We all know ML$E only cares about money.

[wzhxvy]

I think the escalation of this if things dont improve should be to sponsors and the pension fund...MLSE will sell TFC before you can blink if it gets to that...the last thing the Teachers want is poor publicity in how their investments and revenue is on the back of screwing Ontario residents, treating them unfairly bla bla...these idiots and I use that term loosely because they are more...better fix this quick

[TFC07]

Other end of the spectrum...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/10/16/tfc_columbus/?source=topstories


"You don't see that happen very often," said Toronto midfielder Scott Peterson who scored in the 38th minute to give Toronto the lead. "I thought we should have come out of the game with three points."

Who is Scott Peterson? :facepalm:

[wzhxvy]

Who is Scott Peterson? :facepalm:

Its the other end of the specturm alright...the intelligence spectrum

[Sonny Cheeba]

i didn't say it wasn't effective at getting your point across.... it was.

but it will certainly have no effect on sponsorship. TFC did not just go on a sex-addict rampage. Leafs haven't won shit in how long? Pizza Pizza isn't going to stop sponsoring them. they're not a feelgood story.... by a long shot.

but where does it go from here?

what about when the renewals are still likely relatively high compared to other MLS clubs?

what matters right now is renewals/new STH's. like i said, you can only judge any effectiveness of the protest from that..... negative press may help influence some decisions, but if TFC are still on TV, they'll still have sponsors.

the BBC could say that the fans are unhappy at TFC. but what's that worth? really? come october 22nd. you'll see the real impact of the fan's attitude. will it be one of action (not-renewing), or one of bitter compliance.

and so i say again. what's next? what if we sign Del Piero (an example, i know it won't happen). will all be forgotten? will the chants and songs pour out again in april? i seem to think they will. so MLSE might have a little less to worry about.

[denime]

Other end of the spectrum...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/10/16/tfc_columbus/?source=topstories

Already posted in news thread,it's same Canadian press article in all papers today,keep this thread for post protest debrief and discussion only.

[Sonny Cheeba]

If 80% ends up being the renewal rate then the front office will be near panic mode. 80% of 16,000 is 12,880. So they would need 3,200 new STH to catch up to previous years levels. Then add in the new 2,000 STH they want to add this year. If they were to get to their desired 18,000 STH number they would end up with an almost empty waiting list. They would need 5,200 new fans to get to 18,000.

Of course that all depends on the renewal rate being 80%. The higher it goes the less the front office cares.

As for what we do if the number ends up higher. Who knows. If the people in the expensive seats are ready to renew regardless of cost I don't think we can win. We all know ML$E only cares about money.

that's what i'm saying. who knows. and if people on the waiting list are actually still interested, 3000 or so tickets shouldn't be a problem. but i know i'm on that list and i would never pay the prices they ask for new season tickets.

so we'll see..... that's all i'm saying. we'll see. having it in the NYT is good for pushing your voices out there. but is it really effective at hurting mlse? i'm not so sure.

[BFin]

I think the escalation of this if things dont improve should be to sponsors and the pension fund...MLSE will sell TFC before you can blink if it gets to that...the last thing the Teachers want is poor publicity in how their investments and revenue is on the back of screwing Ontario residents, treating them unfairly bla bla...these idiots and I use that term loosely because they are more...better fix this quick

Teachers own the entire MLSE spectrum, and will not sell it as single entities.

[BFin]

Its the other end of the specturm alright...the intelligence spectrum

Yes, this is gospel. Last time a protest people cared about occured, they got all of the names wrong.

Say something to you?

[T.O TILL I DIE]

u sector ruined the protest.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mikey]

u sector ruined the protest.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

er... no, they said they wouldn't take part beforehand and that they wouldn't put out a capo. The only people I saw trying to upstage the protest were the drunken assholes on the platform at the top of 112, shouting shit at RPB and calling everyone "celtic fans".

[CretanBull]

Are they not a feelgood story still?


Uh, no not at all.

NYT article is about how the team has gone from being much loved to "the focus of bitterness and anger" and was printed with this picture:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/10/17/sports/Y-MLS/Y-MLS-articleLarge.jpg


The Headline from the Toronto Star article is "Fans Falling Out of Love with TFC"

Do either come across as feel good stories to you?

[wzhxvy]

Teachers own the entire MLSE spectrum, and will not sell it as single entities.

Oh so now you have knowledge of the fact that MLSE will not sell one of its properties ? Just like they bought them one by one, they can sell them one by one...but thanks for the education on Teachers owning all of MLSE...which they actually dont.

[CretanBull]

u sector ruined the protest.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ruined it? They allowed their members to do whatever they thought best. Some of them wore green (thank you!) most were silent. The small handfull of U-Sector guys who insisted on singing and chanting were inaudible and ultimately ignorable. The fact that their chanting didn't catch on made the mood of everyone in the stadium painfully obvious. Their chanting didn't ruin anything, it highlighted the problem.

[wzhxvy]

Ruined it? They allowed their members to do whatever they thought best. Some of them wore green (thank you!) most were silent. The small handfull of U-Sector guys who insisted on singing and chanting were inaudible and ultimately ignorable. The fact that their chanting didn't catch on made the mood of everyone in the stadium painfully obvious. Their chanting didn't ruin anything, it highlighted the problem.

Agreed. I would also add that in 20,000 or 18,000 or whatever the attendance was, you will find people of every persuasion. I am sure there were 20 people in that stadium yesterday that didnt know it was the last game of the season, or where the team wearing yellow was from...who cares.

[FluSH]

Although I couldn't be there because it was my daughter's birthday... Respect to North End Elite and my Red Patch Boy brothers...

[Brooker]

People wearing green and drinking MLSE beer was both confusing and hilarious.

Other than that, well done guys.

[Yagbod]

The Protest...

I loved it. I was honoured to hold up the banner in 110. Kudos to Skint for making it, unfortunate that he didn't make into the picture in the The Star as he did it all.

But, I want to have fun again. No one will show up to the Aribe game. No one will watch it on TV. If MLSE don't say anything on Monday will they change their minds on Wednesday?

I vote that we support the team on Tuesday. Go for a win to finish off the year. Let's wear green and bring the banners again, but let's sing too.

[DichioTFC]

The Protest...

I loved it. I was honoured to hold up the banner in 110. Kudos to Skint for making it, unfortunate that he didn't make into the picture in the The Star as he did it all.

But, I want to have fun again. No one will show up to the Aribe game. No one will watch it on TV. If MLSE don't say anything on Monday will they change their minds on Wednesday?

I vote that we support the team on Tuesday. Go for a win to finish off the year. Let's wear green and bring the banners again, but let's sing too.

It's going to be on all over the United States on all the Fox Soccer channels. I plan on going to a bar and watching it, so are a dozen others I know.

Interest will be low, but it is another opportunity to get the point across.

[denime]

The Protest...

I loved it. I was honoured to hold up the banner in 110. Kudos to Skint for making it, unfortunate that he didn't make into the picture in the The Star as he did it all.

But, I want to have fun again. No one will show up to the Aribe game. No one will watch it on TV. If MLSE don't say anything on Monday will they change their minds on Wednesday?

I vote that we support the team on Tuesday. Go for a win to finish off the year. Let's wear green and bring the banners again, but let's sing too.

Sorry but NO,that would be a waste of time we spent for Saturday protest.We will carry on into the next season if we have to.This battle didn't even started and you want to go back to same old,no thanks.

[Mikey]

Tuesday is the perfect game for not turning up and leaving my four seats empty. I fully intend to treat it like an away game and watch it down the pub.

[Wull]

Ruined it? They allowed their members to do whatever they thought best. Some of them wore green (thank you!) most were silent. The small handfull of U-Sector guys who insisted on singing and chanting were inaudible and ultimately ignorable. The fact that their chanting didn't catch on made the mood of everyone in the stadium painfully obvious. Their chanting didn't ruin anything, it highlighted the problem.

This ^^

Fair play to them for not putting in a capo, and like everyone else, their members had the right to sing or not sing and wear what they like. We were getting shit from further down 115 for not singing but I didn't have a go at them for singing because it's my choice (and believe me, it was one of the most difficult things I've done)

[kaos197O]

Sorry but NO,that would be a waste of time we spent for Saturday protest.We will carry on into the next season if we have to.This battle didn't even started and you want to go back to same old,no thanks.

So unless prices drop for the 2011 season you guys won't be singing? That could be an awful long time.

[FluSH]

People wearing green and drinking MLSE beer was both confusing and hilarious.

Other than that, well done guys.

I put my paycheque on it that it was Carts!!! lol

[FluSH]

This ^^

Fair play to them for not putting in a capo, and like everyone else, their members had the right to sing or not sing and wear what they like. We were getting shit from further down 115 for not singing but I didn't have a go at them for singing because it's my choice (and believe me, it was one fot eh most difficult things I've done)


At the end of the day, we have no right to say who should sing and chant and who shouldn't. North End Elite and Red Patch Boys agreed on a specific measure for this protest and we as supporter groups stuck together to make this happen.

[__wowza]

i think the best part about this was what wasnt seen.
the protest wasn't visible on TV. audible yes, but visible no.

you guys were dead silent.

i was eerie to hear. however, the camera was rarely on you, so you'd see a spattering of green around the stadium. interesting thought though.. the camera NOT being on you sent just as much of a message. i've never once seen a home game televised that didn't contain crowd shots of the supporter's groups.

it's interesting not having the team boast about how crazy and vocal our supporters are on camera during a home game.

good job all.

[Yagbod]

So unless prices drop for the 2011 season you guys won't be singing? That could be an awful long time.

This is a great question. When does it end? If we don't get what we want (and I would fall over in shock if we did), when do we go back to having fun?

[Pookie]

^ sitting here at the keyboard trying to think of an answer to that.

I'm not sure that it needs an answer just yet. There is one game left in the season. We have no idea where the renewals and gold/red list shake downs will take them.

When they announce the new GM (or even before) we should be pressuring them for guidance as to whether Anselmi/Peddie stay in the reporting structure. That could change over the weeks ahead.

Lots of unknowns. Except our resolve. That's known.

[London]

we fight till we win or we are priced out, simple as that.

what a win is defined as, is what we need to decide as a group

[denime]

Price wont go down for 2011,but what i would like to see is price freeze for 2012/13 to be published before 2011 season starts.if mlse does not freeze prices for 2012/13 than yes we will continue to be silent next year too.this is just beginning ,nothing will get done overnight with we have a long off season to think how to fight this batle.

[jabbronies]

Price wont go down for 2011,but what i would like to see is price freeze for 2012/13 to be published before 2011 season starts.if mlse does not freeze prices for 2012/13 than yes we will continue to be silent next year too.this is just beginning ,nothing will get done overnight with we have a long off season to think how to fight this batle.


Saturday was just the first battle, but this is war! There are many more battles to fight until we get a response.

A price freeze for 2012/13 should defiantly be one of our goals.

[s2cazz]

this should be continued untill we are forced out of the stadium or change happens

if they want to sell there product on my shoulders, i at least want a cut of the profits.


who wants to be my agent?
You're so Oooooultra, you are your own agent.

[kaos197O]

If it's all out war I would suggest that you guys collectively do your homework. As a member of and a negotiator for a large union, I know that, declaring war ends up hurting everyone and the relationships that once existed end up being scarred permanently. I assume that a vote has been taken amongst your membership and that you know what the REAL end goal is and that the majority are on board with this course of action. I totally understand taking a hard line but there are so many ways of protesting and negotiating that don't affect the players on the pitch or the time you spend supporting them. Good luck to you with your initiatives. You are up against some of the very best in business today and have your work cut out for you.

I personally will continue to do whatever I can in a quieter way to get things changed but will be supporting our players on the pitch tomorrow in full voice.

Once again I wish you all well, especially at the next few meetings.

[Sonny Cheeba]

The Protest...

I loved it. I was honoured to hold up the banner in 110. Kudos to Skint for making it, unfortunate that he didn't make into the picture in the The Star as he did it all.

But, I want to have fun again. No one will show up to the Aribe game. No one will watch it on TV. If MLSE don't say anything on Monday will they change their minds on Wednesday?

I vote that we support the team on Tuesday. Go for a win to finish off the year. Let's wear green and bring the banners again, but let's sing too.

for real?

yeah.... that's not mixing signals at all.

think about having fun in the future. not now. not when you want to be taken seriously.

focus man.... focus!

[London]

for real?

yeah.... that's not mixing signals at all.

think about having fun in the future. not now. not when you want to be taken seriously.

focus man.... focus!

yes, yes, and yes

[ochos]

Quick question I'll post in any ticket renewal/protest/town hall meeting/MLSE related thread:

Is it worth it for those of us who've yet to renew to call our ticket agents today and demand a price deduction or else we're not renewing?

Based on the response I may or may not make a new poll/thread (yay! Another protest related thread...)

[DangerRed]

I just briefly had a poll open on how many people have renewed with 4 days to go.

It was closed because the moderator thought it's a bad idea to show the FO how shitty the renewal rate is around these parts. Wait, it *is* shitty, right?

The only logical reason for hiding the results of the poll is quite obvious: the renewals are high, despite all the green-wearing tear shedding going on.

I said it a million times, and so have others: if you stop buying shit, they'll stop trying to sell it to you.

Yet here is everyone again, digging in their wallets.

Enjoy the second expansion season.

[ochos]

I just briefly had a poll open on how many people have renewed with 4 weeks to go.

It was closed because the moderator thought it's a bad idea to show the FO how shitty the renewal rate is around these parts. Wait, it *is* shitty, right?

The only logical reason for hiding the results of the poll is quite obvious: the renewals are high, despite all the green-wearing tear shedding going on.

I said it a million times, and so have others: if you stop buying shit, they'll stop trying to sell it to you.

Yet here is everyone again, digging in their wallets.

Enjoy the second expansion season.

Well then, hate to say it publicly, but of course it will be hard for anyone in the south end to give up their tickets - the rate is not terrible (even though prices should not be increased) and eventually when the team's misfortunes do turn around they'll be impossible to get.

I would think though, that season's in higher priced areas would have abysmal renewal rates, and that would force the club to act, again....

[cmonyoureds]

No. NEE was not chanting. Whoever told you that, has no clue what they're talking about.


apologies, maybe should have written USector.