The Next Year "I Want More Canadians" Thread

[[NBF]]

This season reminded me of the year the bills went 3-13 in 2001 and I was glad I missed the majority of games. Nevermind how the bills are doing this season.

I think Mo did have an eye for scouting talent, but as far as the ability to wheel and deal he was a gambler who didnt know when to stop. He literally gambled the first season away. And the second. And the third. And in the 4th season I think he knew what was coming and literally had a desire to rid himself of any blame by saying this team was Preki's team in an effort to save his own ass. Free trips to Brazil:facepalm:

In the future I would like to see the following managerial and coaching structure:


Director of Football Operations
Head of Scouting Operations
Performance Analyst
Head of Academy Development
Head Coach
Assistant Head Coach
Coaches
Fitness Coach
Goalkeepers Coach
Academy Manager
Academy Assistant Coach
Physio

In 2011, a year where there might not be a Canadian quota, the number of Canadian players should at least equal the number of American and International players together.

[prizby]

that's touching...but i rather see a winner first

[DichioTFC]

Its very cute. I admire your optimism.

[Blowing Bubbles]

I want winners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB5-yJM3vJc


I don't care where they're from.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'm done clinging to the romanticized notion of a TFC with lots of Canadian players. The talent pool isn't deep enough, and we are artificially limiting ourselves by doing so.

I'm all for scooping up the odd Canadian talent, and trying to create more Canadian talent through the Academy, but aside from that, I'm done.

Winner first, Canadians second. With more and more Canadian teams entering the league and picking over the already slim list of good Canadian players, achieving both is going to become harder and harder.

- Scott

[Pookie]

I'm done clinging to the romanticized notion of a TFC with lots of Canadian players. The talent pool isn't deep enough, and we are artificially limiting ourselves by doing so.

I'm all for scooping up the odd Canadian talent, and trying to create more Canadian talent through the Academy, but aside from that, I'm done.

Winner first, Canadians second. With more and more Canadian teams entering the league and picking over the already slim list of good Canadian players, achieving both is going to become harder and harder.

- Scott

Me too.

Maybe picking players from a Nation ranked 14th in the world might be a slightly better idea than stocking the team with a country ranked in 50s.

[Yeoman]

I'm done clinging to the romanticized notion of a TFC with lots of Canadian players. The talent pool isn't deep enough, and we are artificially limiting ourselves by doing so.

I'm all for scooping up the odd Canadian talent, and trying to create more Canadian talent through the Academy, but aside from that, I'm done.

Winner first, Canadians second. With more and more Canadian teams entering the league and picking over the already slim list of good Canadian players, achieving both is going to become harder and harder.

- Scott

this
we're not ready. taking more canadians from the national team would equal us to having to chance days where we play, the same day canada does.
remember the emergency signings we had to do?

[CoachGT]

Forget more Canadians. Bring in talent, real talent, from anywhere. There just are not enough top Canadians or we wouldn't be an also ran in qualifying for world cups.

[lips]

Forget more Canadians. Bring in talent, real talent, from anywhere. There just are not enough top Canadians or we wouldn't be an also ran in qualifying for world cups.What he said

[KRO]

Forget more Canadians. Bring in talent, real talent, from anywhere. There just are not enough top Canadians or we wouldn't be an also ran in qualifying for world cups.

What he said.

Talent and attitude is all that matters.

[Sullivan]

;1151898']..., the number of Canadian players should at least equal the number of American and International players together.

Who, and where are these Canadian players today?

just sayin'

[Heathen]

Not at the risk of ending up with another Julian De Guzman

[KdotOdot]

The reason why TFC is a bag of smelly oozing aids shit is BECAUSE we have so many Canadian players.

I swear it's like no one has ever seen a CMNT game? Who in their right mind would sign ANY Canadian after watching one of those smh.

[fetajr]

ANSELMI, please don't pay attention to this, we don't need more Canadians. We need GOOD Argentinian/Brasilian coaching and players.

yeah yeah yeah..i know someone is gonna say "we tried it and it didn't work" with Vitto, Santos, and other latino players like Ruiz, Guevara, Nagamura, and Mista if you include hispanic players.

But i'm saying 3 Argentinian/Brazilian players to run the offense.

GOT THAT ANSELMI!!!??

[Wull]

this is how we ended up with jdg. I have no interest in getting more canadians in the lineup just now unless they improve the team like Lindsay did yesterday

[shwade]

that's the reason we're so shit already.

[prizby]

the problem with bringing in canadians isn't so much how many or few there are or how they play on the field, its the lack of a hometown discount that might be perceived with bringing in a Canadian. Instead of a hometown discount it costs us more to bring in a Canadian than someone with similar skill. Ie. look at the cost of JDG

Ie. look at what it cost us to bring Ali Gerba to the team. Picking up Nick Garcia + Gerba's 100k+ + our 3rd round pick that might have brought someone better than Nane Joseph + some allocation too?

[Pachuco]

What everybody else said. I want the opposite. I want the number of Canadians to be the number that is forced on us.

The rest, if they even played frisbee in a Canadian park when they were little I'm not interested.

[Macksam]

The reason why TFC is a bag of smelly oozing aids shit is BECAUSE we have so many Canadian players.

I swear it's like no one has ever seen a CMNT game? Who in their right mind would sign ANY Canadian after watching one of those smh.
We barely have any, and the ones we do have aside from De GuZ are our best players. Go play in front of traffic please.

As far as people wanting a winner first, the best way I see that is through a lineup developed from within.

I have no problem with everyone saying we shouldn't go out of our way with getting Canadians, but to the pretentious c*ck suckers saying we should go out of our way to not get Canadians like the guy I just quoted, go f*ck yourselves.

Remember, the Blizzard never become successful until the majority of their lineup became Canadian. Something to think about.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the TS will get his wish with Canadians being in equal number as Americans or internationals next season, but by 2016? Definately. However, like Shakes suggests, they would be developed from the academy.

[Sullivan]

The reason why TFC is a bag of smelly oozing aids shit is BECAUSE we have so many Canadian players.

I swear it's like no one has ever seen a CMNT game? Who in their right mind would sign ANY Canadian after watching one of those smh.

So using kdots anti Cdn logic (rhetorically speaking), is there even a need to discuss just where TFC would be without Attakora, Cann, de Guzman and De Rosario this season?

:picard:

And I guess it's pointless to mention the contributions that Bunbury, Hainault, Jakovic and Johnson make to their respective MLS clubs.
(not to discount/dismiss efforts by Edwards, Onstad, Serioux & Sutton)

....and another additon to my ignore list

[netsan]

Let's set the record straight... Attakora was responsible for so many bone headed plays in his own box that led to goals... On defense he was terrible on set pieces.. he ended up frozen watching his opponents heading balls into the net...

He has potential, but I am sure that the team's plus/minus was better when he sat...

[TFCRegina]

Forget more Canadians. Bring in talent, real talent, from anywhere. There just are not enough top Canadians or we wouldn't be an also ran in qualifying for world cups.

To put it in a better way:

The Canadians who should be here are the ones who deserve to be here. Nobody should be guaranteed a spot due to their nationality.

[TFCRegina]

The reason why TFC is a bag of smelly oozing aids shit is BECAUSE we have so many Canadian players.

I swear it's like no one has ever seen a CMNT game? Who in their right mind would sign ANY Canadian after watching one of those smh.

All six or seven of them? 3 of them being among our top 10 best players.

Yeah those Canadians, they're fucking awful.

Idiot.

[TFCRegina]

ANSELMI, please don't pay attention to this, we don't need more Canadians. We need GOOD Argentinian/Brasilian coaching and players.

yeah yeah yeah..i know someone is gonna say "we tried it and it didn't work" with Vitto, Santos, and other latino players like Ruiz, Guevara, Nagamura, and Mista if you include hispanic players.

But i'm saying 3 Argentinian/Brazilian players to run the offense.

GOT THAT ANSELMI!!!??

Santos was a great acquisition. It was finding a gem in a steaming pile of dog shit that Mo signed.

[Macksam]

Santos was a great acquisition. It was finding a gem in a steaming pile of dog shit that Mo signed.
Yeah, Vitti had his moments to.

[TFCRegina]

Yeah, Vitti had his moments to.

Not even comparable.

Santos was far more effective with a steaming pile of crap around him. The difference between Santos and Vitti is that one created play and the other pretended to create play.

[fetajr]

Santos was far more effective with a steaming pile of crap around him.


we'll, there you go. Thats 1 effective Brasilian.

Imagine 3 or 4 effective Argentinians/Brasilians?

[JamboAl]

What everybody else said. I want the opposite. I want the number of Canadians to be the number that is forced on us.

The rest, if they even played frisbee in a Canadian park when they were little I'm not interested.

This season didn't suck because we have too many Canadians. This season sucked because of all the points that have been raised in the various threads. Sure, one of the Canadians (JDG) didn't play as well as we wanted but remember when all of us were collectively falling head over heels for TFC to sign him.

Unfortunately, talented Canadians who could add something to TFC are playing for clubs like PSV, Manisaspor or Norwich City...and they are better off playing in Europe.

[TFCRegina]

we'll, there you go. Thats 1 effective Brasilian.

Imagine 3 or 4 effective Argentinians/Brasilians?

Could you imagine 1 ineffective Argentine? I can.

The Canadians are not to blame. For every effective player we've found, there have been 5 to 10 ineffective ones.

The Canadians on this team this year were by and large above the average.

[KdotOdot]

You guys are HILARIOUS.

De Guzman might be the worst player in the history of the sport.
DeRosario is a middle aged "G" who thinks he's too good to distribute the ball.
Attakora is hot and cold like a Hall's blowjob.

They play for a shitty sub par North American bush league. They are NOT world class players as our wonderful country is a pathetically ranked in world football standings. I'm quite sure a bunch of random landscapers from some small Spanish village could shit kick our National Team with a weeks notice.

Don't go getting all emo guys. Jambo's right, we didn't lose because of our poor Canadian Talent, we just proved how far our on field Canadian talent can take us. NOWHERE.

LOL@TFC Regina. You know what your name rhymes with right?

[KdotOdot]

Could you imagine 1 ineffective Argentine? I can.

The Canadians are not to blame. For every effective player we've found, there have been 5 to 10 ineffective ones.

The Canadians on this team this year were by and large above the average.


HAHAHAHAHHAAHA! Dude you're stary eyed optimism and refusal to see the facts makes you a fucking hilarious, and I mean HILARIOUS screen name.

[Pachuco]

This season didn't suck because we have too many Canadians. This season sucked because of all the points that have been raised in the various threads. Sure, one of the Canadians (JDG) didn't play as well as we wanted but remember when all of us were collectively falling head over heels for TFC to sign him.

Unfortunately, talented Canadians who could add something to TFC are playing for clubs like PSV, Manisaspor or Norwich City...and they are better off playing in Europe.

You are confusing my quote for Kdot's. I didn't say this season sucked because of Canadians at any point, and I agree that 3 Canadians on this team (Dero, Nana and Cann) are amongst the best players and most valuable to the team.

However, it's been 4 years of signing shitty underperforming Canadians, it's been 4 years of experiments to come up with these 3 guys. Serioux I also thought was a solid Canadian player but we got rid of him for a bag of soccer balls in the end.

When you look at how many Canadians have played on this team in 4 years it really doesn't bode well for them. They have an awful track record if you ask me.

If a good Canadian comes around named Simeon Jackson then yeah, of course take him. But besides that, there aren't many Canadians in the world that I would want on TFC. I would consider Josh Simpson or Klukowski because they would fill a role that we desperately need, unfortunately they are probably too expensive for the MLS salary cap.

This team doens't need more Canadians. This team needs a coach, some wide midfielders, full backs and central midfielders, period.

[DichioTFC]

I'm going to start the "Next Year I Want Better Players" thread.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Our team has, will and should be a starting point and end game for Canadians. The young Canadian talent coming up can do the same job for less than a journeyman i don't give a shit about.

Anyone that has heard of other Toronto franchises may see the wisdom in moving young up and coming Canadian talent on elsewhere to maintain value for their dollar since "Hometown boys" have the tendency to get a little too comfortable in their positions.

Don't over pay Canadians. If they aren't performing let them go. It's their legacy. IF they want to retire here they have to earn it still.

Btw great timing on shitting on our National squad...:rolleyes:

Ukraine 2, Canada 2

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm going to start the "Next Year I Want Better Players" thread.

So do it. I don't expect you to care about Canadian development.

[JamboAl]

Our team has, will and should be a starting point and end game for Canadians. The young Canadian talent coming up can do the same job for less than a journeyman i don't give a shit about.

Anyone that has heard of other Toronto franchises may see the wisdom in moving young up and coming Canadian talent on elsewhere to maintain value for their dollar since "Hometown boys" have tendancy the to get a little too comfortable in their positions.

Don't over pay Canadians. If they aren't performing let them go. It's their legacy. IF they want to retire here they have to earn it still.

Btw great timing on shitting on our National squad...:rolleyes:

Ukraine 2, Canada 2

+1 Million especially the last part of this, Pete!

[prizby]

Not even comparable.

Santos was far more effective with a steaming pile of crap around him. The difference between Santos and Vitti is that one created play and the other pretended to create play.

1 is more physical than the other
1 had an extra year of experience in the MLS

Vitti had as many goals as Conor Casey in his first year in the MLS...took Casey 3 years to become a prolific scorer in the MLS...there is a learning curve.

[Macksam]

You are confusing my quote for Kdot's. I didn't say this season sucked because of Canadians at any point, and I agree that 3 Canadians on this team (Dero, Nana and Cann) are amongst the best players and most valuable to the team.

However, it's been 4 years of signing shitty underperforming Canadians, it's been 4 years of experiments to come up with these 3 guys. Serioux I also thought was a solid Canadian player but we got rid of him for a bag of soccer balls in the end.

When you look at how many Canadians have played on this team in 4 years it really doesn't bode well for them. They have an awful track record if you ask me.

If a good Canadian comes around named Simeon Jackson then yeah, of course take him. But besides that, there aren't many Canadians in the world that I would want on TFC. I would consider Josh Simpson or Klukowski because they would fill a role that we desperately need, unfortunately they are probably too expensive for the MLS salary cap.

This team doens't need more Canadians. This team needs a coach, some wide midfielders, full backs and central midfielders, period.
When you look at how many players in general have played on this team in 4 years, it doesn't bode well for anyone.

Yes, it doesn't need more Canadians. The team needs more young Canadians who have the drive to succeed like Lindsay, and more like him will be coming up in the future. What you people don't get is that is where the success of this team will come from, the young boys in and around the GTA looking to make a name for themselves.

[Section 117]

If we pay more for a Canadian than someone else who is better than no chance in hell.

I understand if we develop the talent than yes we must keep our talented youngster. TFC job is not to help develop CMNT players if we do it is a bonus. TFC is suppsoe to be avbout winning and signing Canadians just for the sake of them being Canadian is a joke. This is not a retirement stop for player who have played for the CMNT either, if they can't contribute the way another player can who is not Canadian, then why the hell would we sign them?

That is like saying the Impact is only going to sign french sepaking players> why limit who we can sign. I want the best players possible for our team nothing less

[Pachuco]

When you look at how many players in general have played on this team in 4 years, it doesn't bode well for anyone.

Yes, it doesn't need more Canadians. The team needs more young Canadians who have the drive to succeed like Lindsay, and more like him will be coming up in the future. What you people don't get is that is where the success of this team will come from, the young boys in and around the GTA looking to make a name for themselves.

I completely disagree that the success of this team will come from the Academy. Come on, that is a very small piece of the puzzle. No team in the world depends on their Academy enough to say something like that. At the most we'll have two Academy players on this team at any given time. If they play well for a couple of years they will more then likely graduate to Europe anyways. The success of this team has very little to do with the Academy.

We don't need any more young Canadians. We have three of them right now and that's probably all we should ever have at any given time. Unless the roster someday gets expanded. If we are succesfull next year it won't be because we brought up more Academy players.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I think we could use more Canadian squad player types to fill up the new added roster spots. I think there's a few CSL types who could do a job for TFC, my reasoning being, Lindsay looked pretty good last game, he was a good to above average CSL player, but not dominating. By extension other above average CSL players could contribute. Milos Scepanovic for example.

Thought I agree with the above sentiment, I want more wining, more than more Canadians.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If we pay more for a Canadian than someone else who is better than no chance in hell.

I understand if we develop the talent than yes we must keep our talented youngster. TFC job is not to help develop CMNT players if we do it is a bonus. TFC is suppsoe to be avbout winning and signing Canadians just for the sake of them being Canadian is a joke. This is not a retirement stop for player who have played for the CMNT either, if they can't contribute the way another player can who is not Canadian, then why the hell would we sign them?

That is like saying the Impact is only going to sign french sepaking players> why limit who we can sign. I want the best players possible for our team nothing less

It's not some mysterious random "bonus". It's a natural progression. Our kids coming up are Canadian and only the best keep playing for us. If they're really good they will test the limits of how much we think they're worth and may have to move on to a team outside the country. If they want to return or retire here out of patriotism, sense of civic pride or family that's great.

But not at the expense of the rest of the team's quality. I think up till now we've had mixed results with the Canadians we've had on the squad but most of them have not crippled the teams salary cap with a lower than expected performance.

[jloome]

I completely disagree that the success of this team will come from the Academy. Come on, that is a very small piece of the puzzle. No team in the world depends on their Academy enough to say something like that. At the most we'll have two Academy players on this team at any given time. If they play well for a couple of years they will more then likely graduate to Europe anyways. The success of this team has very little to do with the Academy.

We don't need any more young Canadians. We have three of them right now and that's probably all we should ever have at any given time. Unless the roster someday gets expanded. If we are succesfull next year it won't be because we brought up more Academy players.

You look at an academy for maybe one new player a year. Two in a brilliant year. So you're right, it's a small portion.

I have to agree, we're already doing more than enough. ANYONE new who comes in at this point should be a first-teamer. The players we have, for the most part, obviously aren't cutting it.

[Macksam]

I completely disagree that the success of this team will come from the Academy. Come on, that is a very small piece of the puzzle. No team in the world depends on their Academy enough to say something like that. At the most we'll have two Academy players on this team at any given time. If they play well for a couple of years they will more then likely graduate to Europe anyways. The success of this team has very little to do with the Academy.

We don't need any more young Canadians. We have three of them right now and that's probably all we should ever have at any given time. Unless the roster someday gets expanded. If we are succesfull next year it won't be because we brought up more Academy players.
A good chunk of latin American teams do, what about Ajax during the 90s?

Also, why is 3 all we should ever have at any given time? Is that some arbitrary number that you said for the sake of saying it? I'm not saying we'll have more next season, but what if more get promoted in the coming years and all of the sudden we have 7 youngsters starting, and playing well? Should we somehow limit ourselves to 3 because "that's all we should ever have at any given time?"

You seem to have this misconceived notion that breaking into a MLS team will be the hardest thing in the world for these kids to do, which is not true at all.


You look at an academy for maybe one new player a year. Two in a brilliant year. So you're right, it's a small portion.

I agree to an extent, but this is the MLS. I think we can probably bring up three or four a year easily if we run the youth system properly. Dallas did this year. Granted, they're not gaurenteed starters yet.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I completely disagree that the success of this team will come from the Academy. Come on, that is a very small piece of the puzzle. No team in the world depends on their Academy enough to say something like that. At the most we'll have two Academy players on this team at any given time. If they play well for a couple of years they will more then likely graduate to Europe anyways. The success of this team has very little to do with the Academy.

We don't need any more young Canadians. We have three of them right now and that's probably all we should ever have at any given time. Unless the roster someday gets expanded. If we are successful next year it won't be because we brought up more Academy players.

At this point in our history I think the Academy is extremely important to more than the success of this team because of the facts not only is this Academy still synonymous with saying Young Canadians and it provides an alternative to the evil of this crippling NCAA system we (TFC, future Canadian teams) have to use in our league.

[Pachuco]

A good chunk of latin American teams do, what about Ajax during the 90s?

Also, why is 3 all we should ever have at any given time? Is that some arbitrary number that you said for the sake of saying it? I'm not saying we'll have more next season, but what if more get promoted in the coming years and all of the sudden we have 7 youngsters starting, and playing well? Should we somehow limit ourselves to 3 because "that's all we should ever have at any given time?"

You seem to have this misconceived notion that breaking into a MLS team will be the hardest thing in the world for these kids to do, which is not true at all.


I agree to an extent, but this is the MLS. I think we can probably bring up three or four a year easily if we run the youth system properly. Dallas did this year. Granted, they're not gaurenteed starters yet.

If 4 players from the Academy are breaking into the TFC roster every year then we are in deeep doodoo. 7 young Canadians on an MLS team is like committing suicide. Who the heck would form a team from 7 young Canadians? I wouldn't put together a team of 7 young americans, nevermind Canadians where the talent level isn't even comparable.

Lindsey has a good game and all of a sudden we should fill up our team with a bunch of Lindsey's?

I agree with Jloome on this one. 1 Academy player every year is good enough. And you gotta expect that some of those "one's" will either, not do well in the MLS, do well and go to Europe and maybe a few of them will stay and have a long succesful career in the MLS. That adds up to a very small piece of the puzzle.

[ExiledRed]

A year ago, someone was telling me we didnt need to purchase strikers because OB White was waiting in the wings.

The overconfidence in Canadian talent is what killed our first season, wasted a DP slot and possibly alienated a bunch of non canadian players/coaches.

Stop it. You need many more teams, more stadiums, and more funding before you can begin to hope to produce the necessary talent pool, and regularly qualify for the WC.

[Fort York Redcoat]

A year ago, someone was telling me we didnt need to purchase strikers because OB White was waiting in the wings.

The overconfidence in Canadian talent is what killed our first season, wasted a DP slot and possibly alienated a bunch of non canadian players/coaches.

Stop it. You need many more teams, more stadiums, and more funding before you can begin to hope to produce the necessary talent pool, and regularly qualify for the WC.

sounds great. Next year is another MLS team, CSL expansion to a nationwide contest that will ultimately lead to a third- tier Canadian league.

I'm not ignoring the overvaluing of some Canadians on our team but our team is young. To ignore Canadian talent just seems so self deprecating. I guess it's always been a Canadian characteristic.

[ExiledRed]

sounds great. Next year is another MLS team, CSL expansion to a nationwide contest that will ultimately lead to a third- tier Canadian league.

I'm not ignoring the overvaluing of some Canadians on our team but our team is young. To ignore Canadian talent just seems so self deprecating. I guess it's always been a Canadian characteristic.

Nobody wants to see canadian talent disregarded. Talent is talent, whatever flag its under.

The problem is we dont want to see the next canadian 'nearly' being touted as the future of the club, when he's never been tested, and offering an economy solution to the owners.

"We dont need a big name DP and we dont need to win right now either, because were all about developing 'young canadians' for the future."

[Pachuco]

sounds great. Next year is another MLS team, CSL expansion to a nationwide contest that will ultimately lead to a third- tier Canadian league.

I'm not ignoring the overvaluing of some Canadians on our team but our team is young. To ignore Canadian talent just seems so self deprecating. I guess it's always been a Canadian characteristic.

Who is disregarding Canadian talent. This thread is titled I want more Canadians next year.

We have two Canadian academy players, we have one youngster in Gala. We have Cann, Nana, Dero and god help me if we are stuck with JDG again. We have enough Canadians on this team. We have the young guys who will learn, and the veterans who will lead. This team doesn't need any more Canadians, as I said before. This team needs wingers and fullbacks and maybe 1 or 2 central midfielders. I can only think of like 3 Canadian's in the world who I would bring to TFC. I can think of hundreds of players from everywhere else in the world who I would bring to TFC. Where do you think I'd be concentrating on if I was building this team?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Nobody wants to see canadian talent disregarded. Talent is talent, whatever flag its under.

The problem is we dont want to see the next canadian 'nearly' being touted as the future of the club, when he's never been tested, and offering an economy solution to the owners.

"We dont need a big name DP and we dont need to win right now either, because were all about developing 'young canadians' for the future."

HAHAHAHA Agreed.

It's not that I couldn't see the douchebags saying it. It's that it would take a 180 turn in the majority opinion to make that kind of an announcement even attractive. I'll admit I'd love if it were to come to pass that we were able to rely on Canadians and win but I'll settle for our Canadian content being paid as much as their worth on this team and contributing to a winner.

[Pachuco]

BTW - An honest question. Do Academy players HAVE to be Canadian? I would go as far as saying that we don't need to be looking at Canadians exclusively when looking for Academy players. The goal here is to get the best player you can get regardless of citizenship or what country he chooses to play for.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Of course not but they will be primarily Canadian until the Academy is at a certain level.

[TFCRegina]

LOL@TFC Regina. You know what your name rhymes with right?

Fascinating. It's like it's the first time he's ever even heard of Regina.

[TFCRegina]

HAHAHAHAHHAAHA! Dude you're stary eyed optimism and refusal to see the facts makes you a fucking hilarious, and I mean HILARIOUS screen name.

My optimism? I don't believe i had any optimism. I simply pointed out that our non-Canadians are worse than our Canadians in terms of proportion.

We can faithfully rely on fully 1 half of our Canadians. We can't rely on fully 1 half of our non-Canadians.

Essentially, it's the non-Canadians bringing the team down.

That being said, I don't think we should be looking for more Canadians to bring on the team, and i have pointed out in the past that the only Canadians who should be here are the ones who deserve to be here. I don't think there are enough free Canadians available to fulfill that role for this team...as a player who deserves to be here.

What you have done is essentially resorted to personal insults and hyperbole, when you basically don't know what you're talking about.

Your reading comprehension is atrocious if you thought at any point I was clamouring for more Canadians.

Oh yeah: you misspelled your.

[TFCRegina]

Oh and I've added you to my ignore list kdot. :)

[grizzle]

I want winners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB5-yJM3vJc


I don't care where they're from.

This

[Macksam]

If 4 players from the Academy are breaking into the TFC roster every year then we are in deeep doodoo. 7 young Canadians on an MLS team is like committing suicide. Who the heck would form a team from 7 young Canadians? I wouldn't put together a team of 7 young americans, nevermind Canadians where the talent level isn't even comparable.

Lindsey has a good game and all of a sudden we should fill up our team with a bunch of Lindsey's?

I agree with Jloome on this one. 1 Academy player every year is good enough. And you gotta expect that some of those "one's" will either, not do well in the MLS, do well and go to Europe and maybe a few of them will stay and have a long succesful career in the MLS. That adds up to a very small piece of the puzzle.
I said if they are playing well. You missed that key word. As for young Canadians not being at the same level as young Americans, I disagree. The GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in Canada or the United States. We're just beginning to harnest it properly.

[Oldtimer]

This thread has some "fans" (not):

http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?40964-Don-t-you-hate-crap-like-this-from-the-RPB-forum.

[KdotOdot]

HAHAHAH

JDG was designated DP on the sole reason he was Canadian. That has to be the only explaination as to why we have that midget on our squad.

[KdotOdot]

Ukraine 2, Canada 2

With or without DeRo and JDG?

[Macksam]

With or without DeRo and JDG?
Without. I think the NT is better without De Ro in all honesty. JDG is still useful though.

[Sullivan]

At this point in our history I think the Academy is extremely important to more than the success of this team because of the facts not only is this Academy still synonymous with saying Young Canadians and it provides an alternative to the evil of this crippling NCAA system we (TFC, future Canadian teams) have to use in our league.


Agreed.

However, I'm not convinced with the current set up of TFCA.

I've always felt that your best technical coaches should work with your best young players. Right now, TFCA's best young players are under the guidance of Stuart Neely. Most of his competitive coaching experience comes from coaching at Scarboro United, a girls club. Then he spent a chunk of time coaching coaches for the CSA, Manitoba SA and the Ontario SA. His high level hands-on player development is less than his time coaching girls. And then he's lacking the "been-there-been through-it" playing experience acquired from playing at a high level. He talks-the-talk, but he's never walked-the-walk. His professional experience is limited to his time associated with TFC. My apologies for the hatchet job, he's a nice guy but I don't think he should be front line with TFC's most impressionable prospects.

Think about it this way, who do you want working with TFC's key prospects, a guy like Danny Dichio, or a guy like Stuart Neely? As a matter of record, I think TFC got it right with Jason Bent, ex pro player turned coach.

To the matter of Lindsay and Henry. Neither of Nicholas Lindsay or Doneil Henry make me think TFCA has turned the player development corner. I think the decisions about them are more to do with PR moves.

Remember this, Russel Tiebert (Niagara Falls) and Kevin Cobby (Brampton) bolted TFCA and joined Vancouver's residency program last year. They left the very program that Neely administers. And for those who don't follow the youth programs, Russ Tiebert has been the CSA's top male youth player the previous 2 seasons; Cobby was a nominee. Neither Lindsay or Henry made the nominees list. Their departures are a significant loss to TFCA.

As an aside, I'll take Tiebert and Cobby over Henry & Lindsay every opportunity that I'm given.

My final comment is to the issue of recruiting for TFCA. Who would make a better pitch, "the push or pull type factor", Jim Brennan or Stuart Neely?

Again, apologies to Mr Neely, sorry, but I do believe there is a coaching role for him with TFCA, its just not being the lead coach for the best prospects.

TFCA requires experienced qualified professional coaches to guide their most impressoinable prospects through the transition from youth footballer to professional football apprentice and senior football.

[Pachuco]

I said if they are playing well. You missed that key word. As for young Canadians not being at the same level as young Americans, I disagree. The GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in Canada or the United States. We're just beginning to harnest it properly.

Nope, THIS is what you said

I think we can probably bring up three or four a year easily if we run the youth system properly.

What a joke, to think that any team in the MLS is going to compete by bringing in 4 of their academy players every year. You know what that means? by year 3 you have 12 players who are all young as hell. Sorry, not smart.

BTW- pretty childish of you to open up a thread on another forum to point out how much you disagree with me. Sometimes I forget that not everyone on the other side of a computer is a grown man.

Oh, and lastly, this is TFC. Not the CMNT. I could give a rats ass if we had 1 or 12 Canadians on the team.

I'm shocked your still allowed to post after your initial insult in this thread.

BTW: Did you seriously say Canada has a better talent pool then the U.S? hahahahaha. fuck me. There is no stat, nothing at all that you could use to prove you are right.

[Blowing Bubbles]

I said if they are playing well. You missed that key word. As for young Canadians not being at the same level as young Americans, I disagree. The GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in Canada or the United States. We're just beginning to harnest it properly.

Ridiculous statement.

[Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Macksam: I said if they are playing well. You missed that key word. As for young Canadians not being at the same level as young Americans, I disagree. The GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in Canada or the United States. We're just beginning to harnest it properly.

Originally Posted by Blowing Bubbles: Ridiculous statement.


Not so much.

Up to 12 or 13 elite Canadian youth club teams compete very well internationally. Locally, top CSL, SRSL and OYSL teams do very well in the US and abroad. Ask around.

These same youth Canadian teams generally start falling behind at age 14, 15 and up.

[ag futbol]

Up to 12 or 13 elite Canadian youth club teams compete very well internationally. Locally, top CSL, SRSL and OYSL teams do very well in the US and abroad. Ask around.

These same youth Canadian teams generally start falling behind at age 14, 15 and up.
I think these are very much bastardized fact though. We have parents with disposable income who like to value these types of things, the rest of the world could care less. When your hitting those older age groups, it stops becoming who's parents will pay fees and turns into a real game. That's when shit hits the fan and we fall back.

That being said, I still see huge potential in the GTA for talent development. Sullivan has a point, it looks like we are losing the war on attracting talent and i'm not necessarily convinced the right people are running the program. I'm not about to fall all over Lindsay and Henry as prospects just let. If this is supposed to qualify as success Bent and Neely are getting off easy.

We can't just produce prospects, we need BETTER prospects than the rest of the league. Outside of LA, we probably have the advantage of the largest player pool to draw from. We should be able to produce higher quality players but there's no evidence we're doing that as of yet.

[Sullivan]

I think these are very much bastardized fact though. We have parents with disposable income who like to value these types of things, the rest of the world could care less. When your hitting those older age groups, it stops becoming who's parents will pay fees and turns into a real game. That's when shit hits the fan and we fall back.

That being said, I still see huge potential in the GTA for talent development. Sullivan has a point, it looks like we are losing the war on attracting talent and i'm not necessarily convinced the right people are running the program. I'm not about to fall all over Lindsay and Henry as prospects just let. If this is supposed to qualify as success Bent and Neely are getting off easy.

We can't just produce prospects, we need BETTER prospects than the rest of the league. Outside of LA, we probably have the advantage of the largest player pool to draw from. We should be able to produce higher quality players but there's no evidence we're doing that as of yet.


Youth soccer is a very fragmented community.
Lot of empire building. Lot of coaches are hot after an $11 trophy.
Lots of poaching, especially with the OYSL and their elite feeder divisions.
And yeah, the fuck'n parents, always shopp'n for a winning team!

Majority of rep coaches churn players seeking success so there is very little development. But the coaches committed to development end up having their player's poached. Its a vicious cycle.

Clubs put the pressure on the coaches; win or lose your team.

Development at the youth level is mostly a concept. And what's really shocking is that attrition starts at the u11 level, rep and rec.

TFC cut a deal with the OSA to start TFCA, they went the easy route to start, that included a job for Neely.

TFCA should have their own regional development program - programs in York, Halton, Peel, Niagara, Toronto, Durham, Haldimand, Hamilton, Welling, Dufferin, etc. I saw the proposal that was sent in. It was very detailed, included admin, operations, technical and it was all costed out. It went no where. Not even a thanks to the guy who put the time and energy to put it together and submit it.

[Macksam]

Nope, THIS is what you said

I think we can probably bring up three or four a year easily if we run the youth system properly.

What a joke, to think that any team in the MLS is going to compete by bringing in 4 of their academy players every year. You know what that means? by year 3 you have 12 players who are all young as hell. Sorry, not smart.

BTW- pretty childish of you to open up a thread on another forum to point out how much you disagree with me. Sometimes I forget that not everyone on the other side of a computer is a grown man.

Oh, and lastly, this is TFC. Not the CMNT. I could give a rats ass if we had 1 or 12 Canadians on the team.

I'm shocked your still allowed to post after your initial insult in this thread.

BTW: Did you seriously say Canada has a better talent pool then the U.S? hahahahaha. fuck me. There is no stat, nothing at all that you could use to prove you are right.
Sometimes I forget that not everyone on the other side of the computer has good reading comprehension because you have shown twice now that you can't even comprehend a simple internet post Chuco.

First, I said the GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in either the Canada or the US. How does that come out to you as me saying "Canada has a better talent pool than the US"? I'm curious to see you explain this one?

Second, you conveniently left out the first part of that quote. I said "I'm not saying we'll have more next season, but what if more get promoted in the coming years and all of the sudden we have 7 youngsters starting, and playing well?"

I did say if they would be playing well. By you not putting two and two together is just splitting hairs on your part and again, saying things just for the sake of saying things which you have a knack for. This I know to be true from the Lindsay thread when you thought he wasn't MLS ready. You ended up embarassing yourself in that thread and now you're doing the same here Chuco.

One more thing Chuco, you also said this gem:

"What everybody else said. I want the opposite. I want the number of Canadians to be the number that is forced on us."

You essentially said you want 0 Canadians on the team, but for some reason you started to backtrack when both TFC Regina, Jambo and I called you out on your coy bull shit.

I'm also still allowed to post because what I said was correct, nothing more.

[TFC USA]

No offense, but Canada is one of the worst footballing nations in the developed Western world.

I want better players regardless of country.

[Macksam]

TFCA should have their own regional development program - programs in York, Halton, Peel, Niagara, Toronto, Durham, Haldimand, Hamilton, Welling, Dufferin, etc. I saw the proposal that was sent in. It was very detailed, included admin, operations, technical and it was all costed out. It went no where. Not even a thanks to the guy who put the time and energy to put it together and submit it.
They're trying to start some "CAP" program right now, but it's not broken down by region as this idea is, which seems like an ideal concept in itself.


No offense, but Canada is one of the worst footballing nations in the developed Western world.

I want better players regardless of country.
Thank you for reading the initial post and then ignoring the 67 replies that followed. We clearly haven't seen this post before.:facepalm:

[ag futbol]

Youth soccer is a very fragmented community.
Lot of empire building. Lot of coaches are hot after an $11 trophy.
Lots of poaching, especially with the OYSL and their elite feeder divisions.
And yeah, the fuck'n parents, always shopp'n for a winning team!

Majority of rep coaches churn players seeking success so there is very little development. But the coaches committed to development end up having their player's poached. Its a vicious cycle.

Clubs put the pressure on the coaches; win or lose your team.

Development at the youth level is mostly a concept. And what's really shocking is that attrition starts at the u11 level, rep and rec.

TFC cut a deal with the OSA to start TFCA, they went the easy route to start, that included a job for Neely.

You got it.

Man we could start a 100 page thread about all the problems soccer has at the youth levels in this country.

The coaching education program is a joke. The CSA license is a political party favour and people are practically encouraged not to take it. Asides from that the value of it is low. No wonder we’ve sunk so far. Rather than dispersing knowledge we’re shunning it.

TFC needs to pull it`s head far enough out of it`s ass to see that the OSA is not the place you go to find coaches or model your program.

[Sullivan]

Man we could start a 100 page thread about all the problems soccer has at the youth levels in this country.

Back in the 70's, I remember having 16 year olds on our reserve team in the old T&D league. Where is that option or opportunity today?

[jloome]

Fascinating. It's like it's the first time he's ever even heard of Regina.

And only a total retard would think Regina rhymes with vagina in the first place. "Re" and "Va" don't rhyme, and it's a two-syllable name.

[jloome]

You got it.

Man we could start a 100 page thread about all the problems soccer has at the youth levels in this country.

The coaching education program is a joke. The CSA license is a political party favour and people are practically encouraged not to take it. Asides from that the value of it is low. No wonder we’ve sunk so far. Rather than dispersing knowledge we’re shunning it.

TFC needs to pull it`s head far enough out of it`s ass to see that the OSA is not the place you go to find coaches or model your program.

So true. The amateur system and its fiefdoms are just ridiculous. I couldn't believe, when I moved to Canada 20 years ago from Britain, how far behind kids from my own age group were, even after going through relatively low-level programs in England.

[nfitz]

LOL@TFC Regina. You know what your name rhymes with right?Virginia?

[Fort York Redcoat]

No offense, but Canada is one of the worst footballing nations in the developed Western world.

I want better players regardless of country.

No offense, but on this subject, and with that name, I care a lot less about your opinion.

[Fort York Redcoat]

With or without DeRo and JDG?

I think you knew that already so what's your point? Mine is there are Canadians that are performing. I would choose them before anyone else. Not at any price, though.

[nascarguy]

Without. I think the NT is better without De Ro in all honesty. JDG is still useful though.
both are good but only if there used in the right way ( water boy)........lol

[Pachuco]

Sometimes I forget that not everyone on the other side of the computer has good reading comprehension because you have shown twice now that you can't even comprehend a simple internet post Chuco.

First, I said the GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in either the Canada or the US. How does that come out to you as me saying "Canada has a better talent pool than the US"? I'm curious to see you explain this one?

Second, you conveniently left out the first part of that quote. I said "I'm not saying we'll have more next season, but what if more get promoted in the coming years and all of the sudden we have 7 youngsters starting, and playing well?"

I did say if they would be playing well. By you not putting two and two together is just splitting hairs on your part and again, saying things just for the sake of saying things which you have a knack for. This I know to be true from the Lindsay thread when you thought he wasn't MLS ready. You ended up embarassing yourself in that thread and now you're doing the same here Chuco.

One more thing Chuco, you also said this gem:

"What everybody else said. I want the opposite. I want the number of Canadians to be the number that is forced on us."

You essentially said you want 0 Canadians on the team, but for some reason you started to backtrack when both TFC Regina, Jambo and I called you out on your coy bull shit.

I'm also still allowed to post because what I said was correct, nothing more.

Remind me what I said about Lindsey? I have no idea what you are talking about. Think you are remembering the wrong person. I actually like Lindsey and always liked his potential.

Now, if you say the GTA houses the best raw talent in North America. Wouldn't you think that translates to having a deeper pool to choose from? How do you even make this shit up? Seriously, where do you get this from? If that's the case, why isn't every player being drafted in the MLS from the GTA? Like I said, you have no way to prove your statement and all stats show that you are wrong. The only one embarassing himself is you. Talking about the GTA having better raw talent then Mexico and even the U.S. What a joke.

As for conveniently leaving something out, it's the same shit you did to make your point. Your problem is you said two different things in the same statement. I was always referring to you talking crap about TFC should bring up 4 players EASILY every year. Which had nothing to do with the other part of your statement.

As for this quote:

"What everybody else said. I want the opposite. I want the number of Canadians to be the number that is forced on us."

That's exactly what I meant. Isn't the number forced on us sometihng like 6 Canadian players? that's more then enough for my liking. Let me remind you that the title of this thread is I want more Canadians next year. And my response to that was I want no more Canadians basically, what's been forced on us is what we have and I'm good with that.

The talent pool in Canada stinks, alot of these Canadian players who have come here couldn't play in a South American rep team. And most of them have underperformed aside from the 4 players I already named. I want guys who didn't come up playing in the worst soccer system in the world. I want guys who were born with a ball at their feet playing with no shoes on. If a really good Canadian happens to come along then sure, let's take him, but it's not where I would be looking for talent. I'm going to start the I want more Honduran's next year thread.

What you are very much forgetting is that this is the TFC forum. NOT the CMNT forum. You have people here from all over the place who support TFC who may or may not support the CMNT. You actually have people on here that don't even live in Canada. Therefore, you are going to get people who disagree with your blind love fest for Canadian soccer all kinds around here.

[Pachuco]

Sometimes I forget that not everyone on the other side of the computer has good reading comprehension because you have shown twice now that you can't even comprehend a simple internet post Chuco.

First, I said the GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in either the Canada or the US. How does that come out to you as me saying "Canada has a better talent pool than the US"? I'm curious to see you explain this one?

Second, you conveniently left out the first part of that quote. I said "I'm not saying we'll have more next season, but what if more get promoted in the coming years and all of the sudden we have 7 youngsters starting, and playing well?"

I did say if they would be playing well. By you not putting two and two together is just splitting hairs on your part and again, saying things just for the sake of saying things which you have a knack for. This I know to be true from the Lindsay thread when you thought he wasn't MLS ready. You ended up embarassing yourself in that thread and now you're doing the same here Chuco.

One more thing Chuco, you also said this gem:

"What everybody else said. I want the opposite. I want the number of Canadians to be the number that is forced on us."

You essentially said you want 0 Canadians on the team, but for some reason you started to backtrack when both TFC Regina, Jambo and I called you out on your coy bull shit.

I'm also still allowed to post because what I said was correct, nothing more.

BTW - I just checked the thread about Lindsey. What I was saying in that thread is a kid like Lindsey could stunt his growth if he's brouht up too early to the MLS (with the fact there is no reserve league), specially this year being that he would sit on the bench. Luckily for him he was brought up to the worst team in the MLS (which is exactly what we were since he came up) so he got some playing time. However, you seem to have Lindsey pinned as the next Pele, which is kinda funny. Of course, you say this becuase he's Canadian and for no other reason. He's young, he needs time to develop, he sure as hell shouldn't be a starter next year on a competitive club. He'll get his shots at proving himself, but it's just silly to put him as a starter if we want to compete. Ibbey was as much of a talent as Lindsey (if not more) and what's everybody's opinion of him now? Remember when he scored in his first game with TFC? Lindsey could easily crash out of this league the same way Ibbey has if we aren't patient with him.

[Pookie]

HAHAHAH

JDG was designated DP on the sole reason he was Canadian. That has to be the only explaination as to why we have that midget on our squad.

^ backed up by Mo Johnston himself. Being "Canadian" was a criteria, presumably to help the business side of things.

"It's not about bringing in a 34- or 35-year-old," Johnston said. "I'm looking for someone 28, 29 and I believe it should be a Canadian. ... And, there's not many out there."
- Maurice Johnston, July 31, 2009

[J .]

The NT is filled with guys who care for themselves, like DeRo. Funny how the NT has played really well its last two games without him. TFC didnt have problems scoring without him.

Anyway, I would rather they get Canadians from outside of those raised in the CSA who feel entitled.

Develop Canadians through the academy and get them time when they are ready with the big club, but yeah, get players who can play from who cares where.

Side note, Attakora is pretty good. The guy is really young still. Him and Henry could form a solid tandem if they continue to progress.

[Pookie]

Side note, Attakora is pretty good. The guy is really young still. Him and Henry could form a solid tandem if they continue to progress.

Henry looked promising in that game. Key words, that game. Remember that Ibrahim scored in his first game.

The good news is that you can rebuild a roster pretty dramatically in 1 year. I would expect every player at every position to have to compete for it based on the best available player for that position.

Cap hit will be a factor too but nationality should be way down the list of factors.

[Macksam]

BTW - I just checked the thread about Lindsey. What I was saying in that thread is a kid like Lindsey could stunt his growth if he's brouht up too early to the MLS (with the fact there is no reserve league), specially this year being that he would sit on the bench. Luckily for him he was brought up to the worst team in the MLS (which is exactly what we were since he came up) so he got some playing time. However, you seem to have Lindsey pinned as the next Pele, which is kinda funny. Of course, you say this becuase he's Canadian and for no other reason. He's young, he needs time to develop, he sure as hell shouldn't be a starter next year on a competitive club. He'll get his shots at proving himself, but it's just silly to put him as a starter if we want to compete. Ibbey was as much of a talent as Lindsey (if not more) and what's everybody's opinion of him now? Remember when he scored in his first game with TFC? Lindsey could easily crash out of this league the same way Ibbey has if we aren't patient with him.
The difference is Ibby never showed this talent.

Also, again you say things for the sake of saying things. Please explain why Lindsay shouldn't be a starter next year? I'm not saying he should, but if he consistently plays like he did Saturday, why not?

I also never said this was the cmnt forum.

[Pookie]

^ I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be a starter next year.

But I would say that we haven't evaluated ALL of the possible options for his position yet so what is the rush to hand him a roster spot?

[Stryker]

I'm as patriotic as the next guy but in all honesty... screw this canadian team crap.
I wouldn't care if we fielded an entire team of sikh's in traditional garb so long as they won games and were appreciative to the fans.

[Pachuco]

The difference is Ibby never showed this talent.

Also, again you say things for the sake of saying things. Please explain why Lindsay shouldn't be a starter next year? I'm not saying he should, but if he consistently plays like he did Saturday, why not?

I also never said this was the cmnt forum.

What are you talking about Ibby never showed his talent? he was a G.A player who scored in his first MLS game.

Lindsey is an academy player who had a nice assist in his second competitive game with TFC. How is it that Lindsey has shown more then Ibbey? You probably didn't even know who Ibbey was until he came here. Never mind the fact that he played well for the U.S U20 team at the beginning of the year. Of course, that means nothing cause U.S Soccer sucks right? and Canadian soccer is sooooo much better.

And yes you did say he should be a starter next year, you said it in the Lindsey thread.

If I say things for the sake of saying things and you don't then please, PLEASE justify your claim that GTA has the best raw talent pool in North America. Please, give me something to back up your claim. Pretend I'm Mexican or American, and let me hear your argument for saying something as crazy as that?

I atleast have a reason for not wanting more Canadians on this team. We've all seen all large number of Canadians play for TFC and very few have actualy made this team better. It's been a lot of experiments with Canadian players to satisfy I guess people like you, people who refuse to see that Canadian soccer for what it is. You want to hold back TFC at the cost of giving shitty Canadian players an opportunity. I'm done with that, I want a winning team regardless of citizenship. I don't feel we'll get a winning team by looking at the Canadian pool. How the heck is that saying something for the sake of it? I trully belive our academy would be far better off bringing in kids regardless of their citizenship and I feel TFC would be far better off looking at players outside of Canada for next year's roster. That's my opnion, and I'm not just saying it for the sake of saying it.

[JamboAl]

I don't think anyone so far is advocating signing Canadians just because they are Canadian. It's just that in theory, it's easier to attract young talent to TFC if you are from Toronto (or Canada). If a talented Mexican, Argentinian or whatever nationality wants to play for the Academy of a team he may never have heard of in a city he's never heard of and is ok getting paid next to zilch for it, then I'm all for it.

As for first teamers, again I don't think anyone here is expecting/wanting TFC to sign someone just because they are Canadian, but useless. But what I am against is this reverse discrimination that just because you are Canadian, that you are automatically no good. And that's what I see you advocating, Pachuco.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm as patriotic as the next guy but in all honesty... screw this canadian team crap.
I wouldn't care if we fielded an entire team of sikh's in traditional garb so long as they won games and were appreciative to the fans.

K I'm not the next but the guy after the guy that was next and I'm saying you're not as patriotic as I am...when it comes to this game. By definition. You're saying you don't care if management makes the extra effort to bring in Canadian talent.

I don't like our present situation. It's not working and it has to do with the nationality of our star players but I'm not going to paint every Canadian with the same brush. I mean, that's just not what we do here.:)

[H Bomb]

^^ Fuckin mod. :D

[Pookie]

^ I have a son who plays academy soccer so I'm all for opportunity.

That said, the Pro-Canadian group would be much better served to focus on this issue:

Why has the MLS classified US players as "North American" and allow them on our rosters at no cost of an international slot, yet, Canadians wishing to play on US based MLS clubs are not afforded the same advantage?

They are still classed as "International."

[Pachuco]

I don't think anyone so far is advocating signing Canadians just because they are Canadian. It's just that in theory, it's easier to attract young talent to TFC if you are from Toronto (or Canada). If a talented Mexican, Argentinian or whatever nationality wants to play for the Academy of a team he may never have heard of in a city he's never heard of and is ok getting paid next to zilch for it, then I'm all for it.

As for first teamers, again I don't think anyone here is expecting/wanting TFC to sign someone just because they are Canadian, but useless. But what I am against is this reverse discrimination that just because you are Canadian, that you are automatically no good. And that's what I see you advocating, Pachuco.

For the 3rd time, this thread is titled "the Next year I want More Canadians" Thread. You tell me whether there is no one advocating signing Canadians just because they are Canadian.

As for advocating that if you are Canadian then you are automatically no good. For the 20th time, in response to this thread, I don't want us to concentrate building next year's roster from the Canadian talent pool. Simple as that. I don't feel that's how we are going to put together an MLS cup team.

[H Bomb]

truth is we have Cann, Nana, JDG, and Dero. That'll do. Especially if the academy kids keep their places.

[JamboAl]

For the 3rd time, this thread is titled "the Next year I want More Canadians" Thread. You tell me whether there is no one advocating signing Canadians just because they are Canadian.

As for advocating that if you are Canadian then you are automatically no good. For the 20th time, in response to this thread, I don't want us to concentrate building next year's roster from the Canadian talent pool. Simple as that. I don't feel that's how we are going to put together an MLS cup team.

But I haven't advocated building TFC around a Canadian based talent. All I've said is that TFC has made a few wrong decisions on Canadian players but TFC doesn't suck just because of its Canadians. If TFC wins the MLS Cup with no Canadians, that's fine by me. But I just don't want the GM to ignore someone just because they are Canadian. That's all.

[Macksam]

What are you talking about Ibby never showed his talent? he was a G.A player who scored in his first MLS game.

Lindsey is an academy player who had a nice assist in his second competitive game with TFC. How is it that Lindsey has shown more then Ibbey? You probably didn't even know who Ibbey was until he came here. Never mind the fact that he played well for the U.S U20 team at the beginning of the year. Of course, that means nothing cause U.S Soccer sucks right? and Canadian soccer is sooooo much better.

And yes you did say he should be a starter next year, you said it in the Lindsey thread.

If I say things for the sake of saying things and you don't then please, PLEASE justify your claim that GTA has the best raw talent pool in North America. Please, give me something to back up your claim. Pretend I'm Mexican or American, and let me hear your argument for saying something as crazy as that?

I atleast have a reason for not wanting more Canadians on this team. We've all seen all large number of Canadians play for TFC and very few have actualy made this team better. It's been a lot of experiments with Canadian players to satisfy I guess people like you, people who refuse to see that Canadian soccer for what it is. You want to hold back TFC at the cost of giving shitty Canadian players an opportunity. I'm done with that, I want a winning team regardless of citizenship. I don't feel we'll get a winning team by looking at the Canadian pool. How the heck is that saying something for the sake of it? I trully belive our academy would be far better off bringing in kids regardless of their citizenship and I feel TFC would be far better off looking at players outside of Canada for next year's roster. That's my opnion, and I'm not just saying it for the sake of saying it.
I never f*cking said that. Don't put words in my mouth Chuco. I've always agreed with the notion that Canadians should play on the team if they are good enough. All I have said is that the team will acheive the most success through developing their own players within. Your reading comprehension needs real work.

[Pachuco]

But I haven't advocated building TFC around a Canadian based talent. All I've said is that TFC has made a few wrong decisions on Canadian players but TFC doesn't suck just because of its Canadians. If TFC wins the MLS Cup with no Canadians, that's fine by me. But I just don't want the GM to ignore someone just because they are Canadian. That's all.

Dude, where did I say you are saying that? I responded to this thread, you responded to me. I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm defending my stance.

[Pachuco]

I never f*cking said that. Don't put words in my mouth Chuco. I've always agreed with the notion that Canadians should play on the team if they are good enough. All I have said is that the team will acheive the most success through developing their own players within. Your reading comprehension needs real work.

Of course you didn't say that. That's my interpretation of everything you've said.

What the heck does the "developing our own players" have anything to do with Canada? Why is this even posted in the "We love Canada thread?". Because you assume they should be Canadian, where I think they should be from everywhere else. You want TFC to be competitive world wide then you can forget about us developing Canadian players only. The top teams in the world find the best players in the world, period.

[Heathen]

No offense, but Canada is one of the worst footballing nations in the developed Western world.

I want better players regardless of country.

Its offence and if Ibrahim's still in your U-20s you won't be too far behind us soon

[Macksam]

Of course you didn't say that. That's my interpretation of everything you've said.

What the heck does the "developing our own players" have anything to do with Canada? Why is this even posted in the "We love Canada thread?". Because you assume they should be Canadian, where I think they should be from everywhere else. You want TFC to be competitive world wide then you can forget about us developing Canadian players only. The top teams in the world find the best players in the world, period.
Well, generally, the players developed internally at TFC will be Canadian because the academy is located in Canada since Toronto is in Canada.

[ExiledRed]

Well, generally, the players developed internally at TFC will be Canadian because the academy is located in Canada since Toronto is in Canada.

And what Pachuco is saying is that the players developed internally in France wont necessarily be French even though the academy they attend is located in a French city in France.

[Pachuco]

Well, generally, the players developed internally at TFC will be Canadian because the academy is located in Canada since Toronto is in Canada.

I didn't realize Messi was from Barcelona, or that Fabregas was
from London, or that Macheda was from Manchester........and the list goes on, and on, and on, and on.....

If we are looking exclusively at Canadians then it will be hard to compete with international clubs, let alone U.S and Mexico.

[Macksam]

I didn't realize Messi was from Barcelona, or that Fabregas was
from London, or that Macheda was from Manchester........and the list goes on, and on, and on, and on.....

If we are looking exclusively at Canadians then it will be hard to compete with international clubs, let alone U.S and Mexico.
TFC academy won't attract foreign kids like that. Besides, there is more than enough raw, young talent in the GTA that can be molded into MLS quality players. We would easily be able to compete with MLS clubs. As for international clubs, well that will only come as the league as a whole grows.

[DichioTFC]

I'm as patriotic as the next guy but in all honesty... screw this canadian team crap.
I wouldn't care if we fielded an entire team of sikh's in traditional garb so long as they won games and were appreciative to the fans.

Of course, because Sikhs wearing traditional clothing could not possibly be Canadian, right?

There have been a lot of stupid statements in these forums but that easily takes the cake. Congrats whitey, hope you get a white powerful team.
:facepalm:

[Pachuco]

Of course, because Sikhs wearing traditional clothing could not possibly be Canadian, right?

There have been a lot of stupid statements in these forums but that easily takes the cake. Congrats whitey, hope you get a white powerful team.
:facepalm:

I think you completely mis-understood his statement. His example implied he didn't care if this team was made up of Sikhs. Like someone saying I don't care of this team was made up of Portuguese. Well of course if they say that they don't mean Canadian-Portuguese right?

[DichioTFC]

TFC should have an Affirmative Action program for Canadians. If there is a tie in quality and talent and ability and potential between a Canadian and an American, it should go to the Canadian. But if an American is better, should we not pursue the better player?

Don't feel too bad for Canadian players, there are four major Canadian clubs, a Canadian soccer league, a Pacific league, NCAA, CIS and many European squads have Academies in North America (including Canada). There are many options available and the cream will rise to the top

[DichioTFC]

I think you completely mis-understood his statement. His example implied he didn't care if this team was made up of Sikhs. Like someone saying I don't care of this team was made up of Portuguese. Well of course if they say that they don't mean Canadian-Portuguese right?

I understood his intent, I didnt like the delivery. He didn't care about the whole Canadian contingent thing so, fuck it, put some turban-wearing sand people, because they're *clearly* not as Canadian as he is.

The funny thing is that he didn't say Portuguese. When he thought "what's the furthest possible thing from being Canadian" the answer were Sikhs and their native costumes.

I have no problem with Stryker, but it was offensive and tinged with racial-overtones.

[Stryker]

Of course, because Sikhs wearing traditional clothing could not possibly be Canadian, right?

There have been a lot of stupid statements in these forums but that easily takes the cake. Congrats whitey, hope you get a white powerful team.
:facepalm:

Sorry. Didn't think I had to specifically say from India.... run on sentence and all. I also didn't think anyone here would be so stupid as to completely misinterpret what I wrote.
Guess I was wrong.

[Stryker]

Ahh I see. I'm stupid because I'm offended.
So we're in agreement then. So nice when everyone gets along. :)

[DichioTFC]

Ahh I see. I'm stupid because I'm offended. Not you for continuing to use racial overtones to describe what isn't a Canadian, Einstein.


from India....

Well done on the sincere apology. Very Alselmi-esque. All this time I thought people born in other countries could become Canadians in this "Nation of Immigrants". I guess I was wrong (...at least about those brown people anyways, I'm sure ex-pats that were born in all those other white countries are just fine and dandy Canadians).

[DichioTFC]

So we're in agreement then. So nice when everyone gets along. :)

Let me know when you plan on lighting crosses on fire.

[Stryker]

Ahh I see. I'm stupid....
Yes I know we've already been over this.
Now if you're done jumping to conclussions I'd like you to consider something... How many Canadian-Indian Sihk players do you think there are that could make this team as opposed to Sikhs actually playing in India?
Figured it out yet?

If you wanna call someone out for bigotry you're barking up the wrong tree junior.

[TFCRegina]

Sorry. Didn't think I had to specifically say from India.... run on sentence and all. I also didn't think anyone here would be so stupid as to completely misinterpret what I wrote.
Guess I was wrong.

You realize he's Sikh and he's Canadian right?

[Stryker]

You realize he's Sikh and he's Canadian right?
He's ethnically paranoid is what he is.

[TFCRegina]

He's ethnically paranoid is what he is.

And you're wrong on that as well.

Sikh, from my understanding, is a religious group. Not an ethnicity. DichioTFC can correct me, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong especially being from backwoods nowhere, but I'm fairly certain.

It's like saying catholics are ethnically catholic.

[Macksam]

And you're wrong on that as well.

Sikh, from my understanding, is a religious group. Not an ethnicity. DichioTFC can correct me, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong especially being from backwoods nowhere, but I'm fairly certain.

It's like saying catholics are ethnically catholic.
Yes, we are a religous group.:hump:

[Stryker]

WOW

I try to make the simple point that I couldn't care less if the entire team was foreign and every oversensitive minority with an axe to grind comes in, completely mis-interprets what I wrote and gets hysterical.

The internet truely is broken.

[sampace]

Hello, the team has missed the play offs three years in a row bringing in sucky international players because the good quality ones do not play in MLS. Quite frankly, our best hope is to DEVELOP the Canadian talent pool and let them play for TFC. If we are going to SUCK, we could of at least afforded to suck with Canadian players. Then at least we'd have the excuse the talent pool is weak, but on the bright side we are developing our Canadians to become better!

[Macksam]

WOW

I try to make the simple point that I couldn't care less if the entire team was foreign and every oversensitive minority with an axe to grind comes in, completely mis-interprets what I wrote and gets hysterical.

The internet truely is broken.
Did I get hysterical or something by confirming TFCRegina's claim that we are a religous group?

[ag futbol]

Clearly this thread is off the rails.

Back to the original point, I think any plan forward is going to involve mining some talent out of the academy. But let's not start expecting miracles here. To start we get one or two players a year, some of which will work out, but most will flame out. Until we get a larger, dedicated training facility and a beefed up academy system don't expect TFC to magically become Ajax.

As for the potential to stock the team with Canadians who are free agents, I just don't see it. There are a few names scattered around but most guys we want are under contract and unlikely to leave europe.

[ExiledRed]

Hello, the team has missed the play offs three years in a row bringing in sucky international players because the good quality ones do not play in MLS. Quite frankly, our best hope is to DEVELOP the Canadian talent pool and let them play for TFC. If we are going to SUCK, we could of at least afforded to suck with Canadian players. Then at least we'd have the excuse the talent pool is weak, but on the bright side we are developing our Canadians to become better!

So we should accept that were going to suck, do the CSA's job for them, and maybe one day in the distant future we will have a team full of canadians who can hold up in MLS.

Meanwhile, we can all pay top dollar to watch developing canadians getting humiliated every week by mediocre pros.

If this is our best hope, we're done.

Personally I think if we suck, something has to be done about that, and that doesnt mean giving ourselves an excuse to suck.

[TFCRegina]

WOW

I try to make the simple point that I couldn't care less if the entire team was foreign and every oversensitive minority with an axe to grind comes in, completely mis-interprets what I wrote and gets hysterical.

The internet truely is broken.

Every over-sensitive White Male Minority with an axe to grind. You forgot that. Thanks. I feel discriminated against

[Fort York Redcoat]

Everyone relax and keep the talk about the team. Leave out race and creed. It has no place here.

[Fort York Redcoat]

For the 3rd time, this thread is titled "the Next year I want More Canadians" Thread. You tell me whether there is no one advocating signing Canadians just because they are Canadian.


Yes. The OP is not no one. Everyone else has been qualifying how they want more Canadians and it's not at the expense of quality or value.

[London]

i want less canadians on TFC, lets be honest, the canadian pool is not that strong for the players that we can get.

the top canadians go to europe and what we are left with is slim pickins.

and soon there will be 3 teams trying to get these players

[Macksam]

So we should accept that were going to suck, do the CSA's job for them, and maybe one day in the distant future we will have a team full of canadians who can hold up in MLS.

I'm not agreeing with his post about developing Canadians at the expense of winning because I think developing Canadians and winning is not mutually exclusive. You can do both easily in this league.

Anyhow, before I go off on that tangent, I will say that the CSA has no business devoloping players for the NT. They don't have the man power, financial clout and resources to do it. They need to concentrate on other things, like devoloping the refereeing and coaching in this country. Like Bobby L said on "it's called soccer" leave the player development to the professional clubs (and semi professional I suppose).

[Pachuco]

I'm not agreeing with his post about developing Canadians at the expense of winning because I think developing Canadians and winning is not mutually exclusive. You can do both easily in this league.

Anyhow, before I go off on that tangent, I will say that the CSA has no business devoloping players for the NT. They don't have the man power, financial clout and resources to do it. They need to concentrate on other things, like devoloping the refereeing and coaching in this country. Like Bobby L said on "it's called soccer" leave the player development to the professional clubs (and semi professional I suppose).

You say we can do both develop Canadians AND win in this league, and you even say it's EASY to do so. This is right at the heart of where I disagree with you. Limiting ourselves to one of the worst talent pools in the soccer world will not make winning easy. If winning was easy in the first place we would've made the playoffs by now. This league is not what it was 5 years ago. This is now a league that is attracting alot of foreigners who can play this game. We need a Montero if we want to compete, not a Gabe Gala.

[rocker]

I agree on that. But what if you can influence that pool? That's what's so great about the academy. Rather than looking at a pool of adult players and taking from it, you develop kids who aren't in that pool yet... you're making that pool better.

then you don't have to rely on fishing for foreign players, who in my experience of MLS can be hit/miss. Academy kids are more predictable since you've seen them for years in your system.

To me, the great advantage of the academy is that the players are well known to the coaches (strengths, weakness) and they come cheap.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

That's a good point, rocker. Getting quality players for cheap is a particularly attractive trait of the academy, what with the limited salary cap in MLS. International players will always have a strong presence on this team, but established players from abroad tend to be expensive.

[Macksam]

You say we can do both develop Canadians AND win in this league, and you even say it's EASY to do so. This is right at the heart of where I disagree with you. Limiting ourselves to one of the worst talent pools in the soccer world will not make winning easy. If winning was easy in the first place we would've made the playoffs by now. This league is not what it was 5 years ago. This is now a league that is attracting alot of foreigners who can play this game. We need a Montero if we want to compete, not a Gabe Gala.
Who said anything about limiting ourselves to the Canadian talent pool? Developing your own players has very little with the current Canadian talent pool. We are creating our own talent by doing this, not limiting ourselves to pre existing players.

I also agree, this league is not what it was 5 years ago. The league is improving and the future is with youth developed internally, something really new to MLS. We actually haven't even scratched the surface with what academy developed players can do for this league. So far, the league has mainly been driven by NCAA players. The shift from NCAA players to academy developed players is occuring right now.

[Pachuco]

I agree on that. But what if you can influence that pool? That's what's so great about the academy. Rather than looking at a pool of adult players and taking from it, you develop kids who aren't in that pool yet... you're making that pool better.

then you don't have to rely on fishing for foreign players, who in my experience of MLS can be hit/miss. Academy kids are more predictable since you've seen them for years in your system.

To me, the great advantage of the academy is that the players are well known to the coaches (strengths, weakness) and they come cheap.

Dude, I'm totally with influecing that pool. But in my opinion, the best way to influence that pool is by bringing in foreigners to compete and play with these kids on a regular basis. So long as the same Canadian players keep playing each other how is the pool going to get any better? We need to mix it up, even with the coaches. We have some seriously terrible coaches in this country. This is the country where anybody's dad can volunteer to become a rep coach and then play his two sons 90 minutes every game even though they aren't good enough for house league.

Playing rep in this country will get you knowhere for the most part. Of course, there's always that needle in the haystack, but in general the level of play here at that level is not good enough to feed an MLS team. MLS teams are only getting better as the years go on.

As it stands today, most of the kids that have been brought up to TFC wouldn't have stood a chance at making any other team in the MLS. Could you imagine Lombardo getting signed by another team? And this kid was supposed to be a prospect out of this system. So until that is fixed (which is going to take a long time) why don't we consider alternatives?

[Pachuco]

Who said anything about limiting ourselves to the Canadian talent pool? Developing your own players has very little with the current Canadian talent pool. We are creating our own talent by doing this, not limiting ourselves to pre existing players.

I also agree, this league is not what it was 5 years ago. The league is improving and the future is with youth developed internally, something really new to MLS. We actually haven't even scratched the surface with what academy developed players can do for this league. So far, the league has mainly been driven by NCAA players. The shift from NCAA players to academy developed players is occuring right now.

You seriously think that talent development begins at the age that the current Academy players start out? Talent development starts way before that sir. You can only do so much if you are getting 16 year olds into the Academy that are already behind the rest of the world.

[ExiledRed]

You seriously think that talent development begins at the age that the current Academy players start out? Talent development starts way before that sir. You can only do so much if you are getting 16 year olds into the Academy that are already behind the rest of the world.

very true, and it also has to be remembered that the best players in the world often forego their education, to excel at football. Over here, good grades are a prerequisite for development in the NCAA, arent they?

[TFCRegina]

You seriously think that talent development begins at the age that the current Academy players start out? Talent development starts way before that sir. You can only do so much if you are getting 16 year olds into the Academy that are already behind the rest of the world.

There've been comments in the media this year that they're extending it down to U-14 this year. Whether it happens or not is up in the air.

I believe the objective is to eventually have a TFCA that stretches from U-12 to U-18.

[Macksam]

As it stands today, most of the kids that have been brought up to TFC wouldn't have stood a chance at making any other team in the MLS. Could you imagine Lombardo getting signed by another team? And this kid was supposed to be a prospect out of this system. So until that is fixed (which is going to take a long time) why don't we consider alternatives?
I'm talking about players getting brought up from the academy. Lombardo wasn't from the academy. You think Lindsay would not get a chance with any other MLS team? You have no idea what you're talking about if you feel that way. I think you're confusing two different things here, the youth development system in Ontario as a whole and TFC's youth development, which is much different. I'm talking about players coming up through TFC's system. The academy is in it's infancy and yet there is already talk about bringing another two players up from the system that you love to disrespect. Just imagine what will happen when the youth infrastructure at TFC gets even more fleshed out and better.


You seriously think that talent development begins at the age that the current Academy players start out? Talent development starts way before that sir. You can only do so much if you are getting 16 year olds into the Academy that are already behind the rest of the world.
No, I don't think talent development starts at that age. You're talking to someone who is extremely knowledgable about the sport so don't insult me like that. Like I stated before, even though the TFC academy starts for kids around 15 to 16 years old, the raw skill in the GTA is still definately there to be molded into MLS calibre players. People sometimes really overrate the whole "development in Canada sucks" which is not the biggest problem we have. The talent idenitification and a place for players to go are the biggest problems facing us and we have, to some extent, alleviated those problems with TFC's academy.

I remember Tony Waiters (the guy who coached Canada to a World Cup appearance) saying how surprised he was that the 15 year olds in Canada were just as good as the 15 year olds in England when he first arrived in this country. The only difference was that the 15 year olds over there had a place to go to after youth soccer.

[ag futbol]

Just because Tony Waiters said it, doesn't mean it's true.

I seriously suggest next time you are abroad take the rose colored glasses off and go watch some youth football. I really had no idea how huge the gap was either until I observed what it was like a in some different spots. As two general examples:

1) While in Mexico I watched about a full day of youth football of kids who were anywhere between 10-12. I was told the teams were only local (although competitive) and this was just a regular set of league games. The level of organization and maturity of the players on the field compared to what you would see in an equivalent Canadian youth setup was shocking. Set pieces were more proficiently run than what you'd see from a much older Canadian team. Each player understood their role on the field to the point where at age 10 or 11 you could tell who was the holding mid and who the attacking mid was.

2) A close friend of mine who ripped up Canadian youth soccer beyond belief ended up spending a year in France while he was in his mid teens. In Canada, you'd expect him to play OSL and be a Star. In France, he was literally playing in the 12th division out of 20. By his estimation, give or take a few levels (as the increase in level isn't exactly linear when you have that many leagues) that was about the best he could handle. He was an average player in the 12th division of a football power but a guy who was good for a goal a game in Canada.

And quite seriously if youth development didn't start at those younger levels you wouldn't see clubs like River Plate and Barca fighting over 12 year olds. I think the people in those organizations know quite a bit more than Tony Waiters.

[Macksam]

I don't have any rose coloured glasses on.

I wasn't saying that youth development isn't a problem in Canada. I just said it's not the biggest problem, and not the only problem we face. Also, like I said above, I know that proper youth development starts at around 10 to 11 years old, even younger than that.

Anyhow, what you say AG just validates my points even further. If we can produce a player like Lindsay or Ashtone with our current sub par youth set up, imagine the results we'll get when TFC's academy is well established and has teams as far down as the U 10 or 12 level.

[ag futbol]

Lindsay and Ashton don't prove anything until they actually integrate themselves into MLS and establish themselves as professionals.

If i had to guess, half the teams in MLS graduated academy players this year. Why are ours better? Our results against other youth teams is middle of the road and otherwise we really have nothing to go by.

Everybody is in agreement, we're going to use the academy. But let's be realistic about it. With the level it's at you might get 1 or 2 guys capable of playing in MLS a year.

[Macksam]

I never said ours is better. As for our youth teams not getting good results, that doesn't matter. Results are the last thing you look far when it comes to youth sqauds.

[Pachuco]

I don't have any rose coloured glasses on.

I wasn't saying that youth development isn't a problem in Canada. I just said it's not the biggest problem, and not the only problem we face. Also, like I said above, I know that proper youth development starts at around 10 to 11 years old, even younger than that.

Anyhow, what you say AG just validates my points even further. If we can produce a player like Lindsay or Ashtone with our current sub par youth set up, imagine the results we'll get when TFC's academy is well established and has teams as far down as the U 10 or 12 level.

If TFC starts a U10 to U12 program today, it will probably be 6-10 years before we hear a success story coming from that system. That's IF they even get the coaching in the academy right. This system will maybe feed 1 player a year for TFC. That's once it's well established. You seem to think the Academy can easily produce 4 players to TFC every year. You seem to think we can build an entire team from a TFC Academy and we can do that starting now. Go back through the posts, that's what you were saying. We'll talk in 10 years again and of course, my position on the crap that comes out of this country could be different if TFC gets them early enough. Right now, that ain't the case, so my position stands. And no I'm not calling Lindsey and Henry crap, you will always have those diamond's in the rough, but that's not representative of the system.

I'll say this though, it is incredibly shocking to me how you use Lindsey as a success story when he hasn't proven anything. You think I disrespect the young guys because I say shit like this, but it's not disrespect, it's telling it like it is. I like Lindsey alot, I hope he succeeds, but give me a break, succeeding doesn't mean getting signed by TFC. Says alot about those glasses you are wearing when you give me a guy who's played 2 competitive games with TFC as a success story. BTW - why don't you ever mentio Henry's name? the kid is as much of a prospect as Lindsey if not more.

[Pachuco]

I never said ours is better. As for our youth teams not getting good results, that doesn't matter. Results are the last thing you look far when it comes to youth sqauds.

You are definately saying ours is better when no other team in the MLS brings up 4 players per year from the academy and you say TFC should be able to do that EASILY and WIN while doing it.

[Pachuco]

By the way Maksam, you are missing one huge flaw in your plan to promote 4 players a year. This is TFC we are talking about. They will have to realize that building academy kids means they may choose to play in Europe if the opportunity presents itself. If we become a reputable Academy we will start losing some of these kids the same way the south Americans do. I'm pretty sure in your equation you haven't considered this.

[Macksam]

By the way Maksam, you are missing one huge flaw in your plan to promote 4 players a year. This is TFC we are talking about. They will have to realize that building academy kids means they may choose to play in Europe if the opportunity presents itself. If we become a reputable Academy we will start losing some of these kids the same way the south Americans do. I'm pretty sure in your equation you haven't considered this.
If they can go onto bigger and better things, I would fully support that.

Also, I have considered that.

Anyhow, you have your position and I have mine. We'll see in 6 to 10 years who comes out on top chuco.

[Section 117]

To grow and bring players through our academy system IMO you need to start at 8 to 10 years old as by the time they are 13-14 it is too late.

This province/country is sooo far behind in actual development of football players that it will take 8 to10 years easy to see the results. No offense to the players that they brought up, but they are bench players at the moment at best. They need to play and if they aren't going to start there is no reason to be on the squad.

Do I want the Academy to do well yes! Do I think any of the players there now will make a long term impact on the club 95% chance they won't. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. I have been down this road personally and I have seen how the system doesn't work. Unless you are miles ahead of your peers

[Blowing Bubbles]

I remember Tony Waiters (the guy who coached Canada to a World Cup appearance) saying how surprised he was that the 15 year olds in Canada were just as good as the 15 year olds in England when he first arrived in this country. The only difference was that the 15 year olds over there had a place to go to after youth soccer.


It blows my mind how you can't see right through that statement.

Let me guess - 15 year old kids in Canada are just as good as 15 year olds in the US at basketball ..... the only difference is they have a fully developed AAU system and we have crappy high school basketball and summer leagues?

gmafb. That statement was pure pandering.

[Macksam]

To grow and bring players through our academy system IMO you need to start at 8 to 10 years old as by the time they are 13-14 it is too late.

Yeah, we established that already. However, the current academy players are competing against MLS players who the vast majority never started proper development themselves either until about 13 or 14 years old.

[Section 117]

Yeah, we established that already. However, the current academy players are competing against MLS players who the vast majority never started proper development themselves either until about 13 or 14 years old.

This why the quality of players are crap and they are techincally crap, with little to no soccer IQ. We in North America care more about that the players that are atheletes and not soccer players. Look at Marvel Wynne fantsatic athelete horrible soccer player.

I have been through the OSA system at a high level, I have played with an against a lot of players that have gone on to compete professionaly. Many of them were never even called out to the provincal squad. The sad thing is a lot of the players never got a shot because they are too small, too slow, etc.... There are other reasons IMO.

Our Academy needs time and IMO it will take many many years before we develop talent that can compete at the highest level. None of the players there now will achieve this.

[Macksam]

This why the quality of players are crap and they are techincally crap, with little to no soccer IQ. We in North America care more about that the players that are atheletes and not soccer players. Look at Marvel Wynne fantsatic athelete horrible soccer player.

I have been through the OSA system at a high level, I have played with an against a lot of players that have gone on to compete professionaly. Many of them were never even called out to the provincal squad. The sad thing is a lot of the players never got a shot because they are too small, too slow, etc.... There are other reasons IMO.

Our Academy needs time and IMO it will take many many years before we develop talent that can compete at the highest level. None of the players there now will achieve this.
Probably not, but there still is a chance for them have decent MLS careers.