TFC:When did it all go wrong?

[denime]

Toronto FC: When did it all go wrong? (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/10/15/sp-toronto-fc.html)





http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/photos/2010/10/15/mojohnston100428cp.jpg






(http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/10/15/sp-toronto-fc.html#ixzz12SEfDaQ8)

[TFC07]

Why I get the feeling if we had a proper management since day one and we're a winning team, far majority of SSH ticket holders wouldn't complain about ticket prices?

[Roogsy]

John has been at the forefront of the TFC experience for some time now. CBC is giving GREAT coverage through John, Nigel and Jason.

I'd like to thank John and the CBC for their work in this regard. I hope they continue to stay on board with soccer in Canada.

[J .]

Why I get the feeling if we had a proper management since day one and we're a winning team, far majority of SSH ticket holders wouldn't complain about ticket prices?

I disagree, many people would. This is not the EPL or a top flight league. Why should we pay Man U prices because it is Toronto? Win or lose?

[TFC07]

I disagree, many people would. This is not the EPL or a top flight league. Why should we pay Man U prices because it is Toronto? Win or lose?

Apples and oranges here. Man U can charge less due to their large TV and sponsorship deals. Plus they play in stadium of 50,000 (I think that's capacity). TFC and MLS in other hand rely on ticket sales for most of their revenue. In this market, people are crazy enough to pay those sort of prices to watch soccer or any other pro sports team if they're winning.

[P-NUTZ]

To answer the question - since day one IMO.

Mo was a terrible scandal, and MLSE was understaffed and un-prepared to handle this club properly.

[johnmolinaro]

John has been at the forefront of the TFC experience for some time now. CBC is giving GREAT coverage through John, Nigel and Jason.

I'd like to thank John and the CBC for their work in this regard. I hope they continue to stay on board with soccer in Canada.

Thank you for the kind words.

John

[tfcleeds]

Apples and oranges here. Man U can charge less due to their large TV and sponsorship deals. Plus they play in stadium of 50,000 (I think that's capacity). TFC and MLS in other hand rely on ticket sales for most of their revenue. In this market, people are crazy enough to pay those sort of prices to watch soccer or any other pro sports team if they're winning.

Closer to 75K.

[CretanBull]

John has been at the forefront of the TFC experience for some time now. CBC is giving GREAT coverage through John, Nigel and Jason.

I'd like to thank John and the CBC for their work in this regard. I hope they continue to stay on board with soccer in Canada.

Totally true. I've always been a fan of the CBC, but they really got it right from day one when it comes to covering TFC. Nigel and Jason are as entertaining as they are informative and John has been the best writer covering the team and its issues from the very begining.

It's much appreciated!

[Roogsy]

And their World Cup coverage was better than CTV's Olympic coverage. I was especially lovin' the high-def...

[Pookie]

To expand on the points in the article, I think Mo's extension was a significant moment in this discussion but so too was MLS expansion in other markets.

Supporters watched as Seattle built a solid MLS team and made the playoffs in the first year. We looked at how the sold their tickets, providing a survey that allowed fans to choose the kind of seat that best suited their desired game day experience. This was while our own "relocation" events were judged ineffective.

We saw Vancouver get a team and read about how they have built their management infrastructure and compared it with what we had. Philly also comes in and does a reasonable job at expansion and prices their sold out seats at hundreds of dollars below ours at every price point.

We watch as Peddie and Anselmi remove themselves from the Leafs on ice decision making org chart. Presumably because they aren't qualified to oversee anything related to the management of a hockey team as judged by the results when they had that privilege. Yet, here they are, 4 years later, still firmly planted into the reporting structure and will have the honour of having the new GM report directly into them. All we can do is wonder why?

I can't say that it is one thing. The extension was certainly one. But it is more than just one decision. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of reasons for this to fall apart.

[maninb]

Apples and oranges here. Man U can charge less due to their large TV and sponsorship deals. Plus they play in stadium of 50,000 (I think that's capacity). TFC and MLS in other hand rely on ticket sales for most of their revenue. In this market, people are crazy enough to pay those sort of prices to watch soccer or any other pro sports team if they're winning.

Actually it's 80,000 I believe....

[johnmolinaro]

Totally true. I've always been a fan of the CBC, but they really got it right from day one when it comes to covering TFC. Nigel and Jason are as entertaining as they are informative and John has been the best writer covering the team and its issues from the very begining.

It's much appreciated!

You're welcome, and again, thank you for the kind words.

Truly humbled.

John

[Roogsy]

Don't feel shy about throwing up your articles on the board John. Denime does a great job of finding TFC related stuff but if he misses one, we don't mind being pointed in the direction of an article that's worthy of reading.

And if you're writing anything non-TFC related, throw it up in any of the respective forums like the International forum if it's Euro for example.

[maninb]

for me it was extending Mo...If we had got a true football guy in there he would have never hired Preki and we would of had a good chance of making the playoffs....assuming he wouldn't have been dumb enough to DP Mista....

[johnmolinaro]

Don't feel shy about throwing up your articles on the board John. Denime does a great job of finding TFC related stuff but if he misses one, we don't mind being pointed in the direction of an article that's worthy of reading.

And if you're writing anything non-TFC related, throw it up in any of the respective forums like the International forum if it's Euro for example.

I'll keep that in mind, but I really don't like doing it - it comes across as self-promotional, I think. I leave it to you guys to decide whether if something I've written is worthy of being posted here.

John

[prizby]

Apples and oranges here. Man U can charge less due to their large TV and sponsorship deals. Plus they play in stadium of 50,000 (I think that's capacity). TFC and MLS in other hand rely on ticket sales for most of their revenue. In this market, people are crazy enough to pay those sort of prices to watch soccer or any other pro sports team if they're winning.

they also pay 100 million pounds in wages per year, it is not like TFC is paying anywhere near that

http://www.footbo.com/Blogs/42535-Manchester_United_Wage_Bill_Huge

correction 121 million pounds

[Hitcho]

That's a great article, John. Thanks for throwing the spotlight on the FO's ineptitude so nicely.

When you read all that history back, it makes for depressing reading. There are so many low points in TFC's short history that they far outweigh the high points (which were mostly in season 1 anyway), and yet all the FO ever does is bang on about what great fans they have. In return, they give us shit decisions, shit results, shit player signings, shit ticket pricing, shit attitude and shit all to cheer about.

Way to go ML$E. I am rapidly losing patience with them as owners. I don;t think we are many years away from half empty seating at BMO Field if this keeps up. The soccer fanbase here is small but dedicated. Drive away the dedicated people with enough years of abuse and who will be left to take their place? It's incredibly short sighted and stupid.

Anyway, good read, and as others have posted above, thanks for your TFC coverage (HD included).

[Alixir]

I was thinking about this for a long time but I can't help thinking (and I don't want to pin it all on a player) but we went south almost right after we sent Cronin to SJ.

[Hitcho]

If Mo had kept Cronin on to do JDG's job and spent the DP money in a well thought out way instead of a brain fart designed to make some fans happy, we'd be a lot better off right now.

The list of fuck ups is long and distinguished. It's going to take the new GM and head coach a while to sort it out. I don't think we'll be winning the league next season...

[CretanBull]

You're welcome, and again, thank you for the kind words.

Truly humbled.

John

You can return the favour by campaigning to get Diana Swain back on the News at Six. Nothing against Anne-Marie, but looking at Diana made hearing bad news a little easier (on the eyes anyway ;))

[ensco]

I would love to hear Mo's side of the story right about now (I guessed at it elsewhere today).

[Beach_Red]

I would love to hear Mo's side of the story right about now (I guessed at it elsewhere today).

Yes, it would be interesting, that's for sure. In Gareth Wheeler's column he mentions back in year one asking Mo when he'd sign a DP and Mo told him, we don't need to, all the tickets have been sold. And right after that the official line became, when we find the right DP. It sure sounds like someone was learning the ways of the corporate world on the job. And plenty of things like that happened.

But it seems unlikely we'll ever hear anything negative from former employees looking for work about MLSE as long as they're money-making partners in this single-entity league.

[Kooper]

I disagree, many people would. This is not the EPL or a top flight league. Why should we pay Man U prices because it is Toronto? Win or lose?

If TFC sells out all their 20,000 tickets at an average annual price of 500$ per season they gross 10 million add in a couple of beers, TV revenue, subtract 3million in salaries, some for expenses and rent and you get a healthy profit. MLSE is not trying to balance the books, like a lot of premier league teams, they are trying to extract as much profit as they can. Hey this is a business after all.

[koryo]

Ehm... to get to the other side?

The real question is "When did anything really go right?"

[ilikemusic]

The signing of JDG was the moment it all went wrong.

[Auzzy]

Don't feel shy about throwing up your articles on the board John. Denime does a great job of finding TFC related stuff but if he misses one, we don't mind being pointed in the direction of an article that's worthy of reading.

And if you're writing anything non-TFC related, throw it up in any of the respective forums like the International forum if it's Euro for example.

Unfortunately, AFAIK, John can't post anything in the international forum because he's only a registered user... :D

[Blowing Bubbles]

1. On field product

Bringing back Mo for a 4th year. How in the fuck did he earn that 4th year, given:
- no playoffs in 3 years
- went through 3 coaches already
- very few teams have ever gone 3 in a row with no playoffs
- it's not like he won anything before TFC; so why did they ahve faith he could eventually figure it out?
- Seattle made it in year 1

2. Stadium atmosphere
This imo is the overzealous security at the ground. They made a conscious decision to not let the stadium crowd become like a Bundesliga or J-League crowd by squashing any spontaneous "support" in non-designated supporters sections

[tfc007]

From Fucking Day One Maple Leaf Sports Greed Has Fucked Up Big Time!!!!!!!!!!

[DichioTFC]

It all went wrong when we were a single point away from making the playoffs last year and instead of firing Mo, we hired Preki.

We had the ingredients last year to make a solid team. Add Adrian Cann and a winger or two, we would have been in playoff contention.

[Suds]

It all went wrong when we were a single point away from making the playoffs last year and instead of firing Mo, we hired Preki.

We had the ingredients last year to make a solid team. Add Adrian Cann and a winger or two, we would have been in playoff contention.


yeah .. makes you wonder why someone would decide to blow up a team when the missed the playoffs by a point :noidea:

[Wull]

yeah .. makes you wonder why someone would decide to blow up a team when the missed the playoffs by a point :noidea:


weren't we inferred to that there were splits in the dressing room that had to be dealt with?

[ag futbol]

It all went wrong when we were a single point away from making the playoffs last year and instead of firing Mo, we hired Preki.

We had the ingredients last year to make a solid team. Add Adrian Cann and a winger or two, we would have been in playoff contention.
Yep, and why didn't we fire Mo then?

Because some dipshit executive pre-maturely extended his contract 3 months before then and was concerned about looking stupid.

[AL-MO]

The signing of JDG was the moment it all went wrong.

Sounds about right. I think it was after the 5-0 shit kicking in NJ and Mo not being fired.

[SoccMan]

When did it all go wrong was when they hired Mo and left him in charge far too long. I remember calling for his head on these very same boards in the middle of season two and stating that if this team did not start winning soon the stands would soon become empty,however, many of you out here thought I was crazy for making such statements, that TFC was an expansion team and we needed to be patient with MO and respect his 5 year plan. Some of you who thought I was crazy for posting these comments way back then, are the same people now that are not renewing because the team is so crap and because the tickets have increased. I wish I could say looking back that I was wrong posting those comments a few seasons ago, however, looking back and seeing the state of things today it seems I was right when I posted those comments.