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View Full Version : Do you think TFC and the support will ever be the same?



mastermixer
10-15-2010, 01:41 PM
Pretty simple question...
Is it possible to have this shitstorm fixed and bring back the :scarf: passion TFC used to get up until this year?

Oldtimer
10-15-2010, 01:43 PM
It all depends on ML$E.

Belfast_Boy
10-15-2010, 01:50 PM
I think they broke something special. not sure how it will rebound. only time will tell.

Section 117
10-15-2010, 01:52 PM
Winning cures all IMO

If they put a competitive product on the field and I mean title contending not playoff contending then yes they will

TFC_Junky
10-15-2010, 01:53 PM
I think they broke something special. not sure how it will rebound. only time will tell.

Agreed. IMHO, the atmosphere year 1 was the best and it's been fading ever since.

prizby
10-15-2010, 01:54 PM
No, and you can see how it has dropped throughout the year

DavydMT
10-15-2010, 01:54 PM
Honestly we are not that good. YES it will be even better.

AL-MO
10-15-2010, 01:55 PM
Depends on alot of things.

I can see a strong vocal support remaining, but the numbers (full stadium) may not be there.

Beach_Red
10-15-2010, 01:56 PM
I think they broke something special. not sure how it will rebound. only time will tell.


Well, they showed their true face so now it's really up to the supporters. In a way, it's good that it's all out in the open and honest. MLSE can be the corporate cartaker, they can hire consultants to make the soccer decisions and they can be the bankers. They can stop pretending they "care" and all that bullshit and just be the bank they really want to be.

Globetrotter
10-15-2010, 01:57 PM
Im sure the Leafs had a roaring supporters group back in the day, and then "stuff happened". Scalpers know when to buy, so they got their picks and support and ticket access has never been the same.

You give up your seasons now, scalpers will jump all over it, 111-112 will never be the same. It's up to you how support continues, not ML$E.

maninb
10-15-2010, 02:02 PM
Im sure the Leafs had a roaring supporters group back in the day, and then "stuff happened". Scalpers know when to buy, so they got their picks and support and ticket access has never been the same.

You give up your seasons now, scalpers will jump all over it, 111-112 will never be the same. It's up to you how support continues, not ML$E.

Scalpers will NOT be jumping all over it!!! They took an absolute BEATING this year (EXCELLENT!!!)...and with the way things are looking for 2011, they won't be buying SHIT!!! Do you work for MLSE or something??? :D

Roogsy
10-15-2010, 02:09 PM
I think they broke something special. not sure how it will rebound. only time will tell.

QFFT...

DangerRed
10-15-2010, 02:11 PM
This isn't something that "time will tell."

If they start winning and make the playoffs next year, all will be forgiven.

mastermixer
10-15-2010, 02:12 PM
Its sad that so many football teams around the world have so much supporter history and TFC can't seem to make it last 4 years. Bums me out big time. :facepalm:

Roogsy
10-15-2010, 02:19 PM
This isn't something that "time will tell."

If they start winning and make the playoffs next year, all will be forgiven.


All will be forgiven in that they will fill the stadium again.

All will not be forgiven in that it will never be like it was. With their actions, TFC have lost good people in the stands that may not come back and some of those will replace them aren't nearly of the same quality.

There is a difference.

rviewmirror
10-15-2010, 02:23 PM
Scalpers will NOT be jumping all over it!!! They took an absolute BEATING this year (EXCELLENT!!!)...and with the way things are looking for 2011, they won't be buying SHIT!!! Do you work for MLSE or something??? :D

I agree with this. I have a feeling a lot of the scalper's that had season tickets may not be renewing since they had a hard time selling this year.

Heathen
10-15-2010, 02:24 PM
The support won't be the same but not in the way most people think. If anyone was in doubt about MLSEs true colours they aren't now. I expect a relationship between fans and ownership that is grudging tolerance at best from our side and in the long-term that might not be a bad thing.

TFC07
10-15-2010, 02:26 PM
Passion for soccer will always be there in this city as long MLSE is doing their job of providing quality product to the people.

Beach_Red
10-15-2010, 02:28 PM
All will be forgiven in that they will fill the stadium again.

All will not be forgiven in that it will never be like it was. With their actions, TFC have lost good people in the stands that may not come back and some of those will replace them aren't nearly of the same quality.

There is a difference.

I think you're right. It's like MLSE have shown themselves to be the hot chick who's sleeping with you for your money. Everybody knew that, but now that it's out in the open it's different.

Roogsy
10-15-2010, 02:31 PM
I agree BR...I think what we are talking about is lost innocence. MLSE has jaded us and even those that are left will always have these difficult times in the back of their minds and probably never trust the FO again.

I think until this year, people held out hope that this team would be different. I think we all realize now it isn't and our idealistic hopes have been shattered. How do you regain that? I don't think you can.

Belfast_Boy
10-15-2010, 02:35 PM
All will be forgiven in that they will fill the stadium again.

All will not be forgiven in that it will never be like it was. With their actions, TFC have lost good people in the stands that may not come back and some of those will replace them aren't nearly of the same quality.

There is a difference.

this is what I'm talking about.

I've spoke to a lot of people that are going to share, cut back or not renew their seasons tickets. They all have been here from the beginning but can't take it anymore.

When I heard the ML$E was going to run this team I was afraid that they'd fuck it up and here we are.

P-NUTZ
10-15-2010, 02:38 PM
totally possible to turn this thing into a winner. MLSE has the $ and clout to do that.

In the meantime, this era will be seen as a dirty regretable past, that left scars on what started out as a beautiful darling franchise.

Section 117
10-15-2010, 02:40 PM
All will be forgiven in that they will fill the stadium again.

All will not be forgiven in that it will never be like it was. With their actions, TFC have lost good people in the stands that may not come back and some of those will replace them aren't nearly of the same quality.

There is a difference.

No offense but it is has be declining since year one. So in reality the newness (if that is a word) wore off along time ago. We will lose some friends in the stands and new ones will come. You can't judge and say that they are the same quality cause we don't know who they are yet IMO.

You can forgive, but you can never forget there is a difference. MLSE screwed up from keeping the drunk Scot to prices for tickets so If they do what is right by hiring the right people and build a franchise we all can be proud of then they can be forgiven, but they have to know that we will never forget about what has happened this year. Period

But to expect it to be like it was before is impossible and that goes for any sport over time. I remeber being the Maple Leaf sitting in golds with regular fans, i remeber going to Skydome in 89 tell me if that will ever be the same....

It won't and we can't get it back. we have to either enjoy the ride and create the atmosphere that we want or we leave and talk about the past. Unfortunately, sports teams brings out the passion in their fans be it postive year 1 or negative ending of year 4 to use TFC as an example.

CretanBull
10-15-2010, 02:41 PM
I agree BR...I think what we are talking about is lost innocence. MLSE has jaded us and even those that are left will always have these difficult times in the back of their minds and probably never trust the FO again.

I think until this year, people held out hope that this team would be different. I think we all realize now it isn't and our idealistic hopes have been shattered. How do you regain that? I don't think you can.

QFT

Winning won't cure what they've done to my faith.

DangerRed
10-15-2010, 02:42 PM
All will be forgiven in that they will fill the stadium again.

All will not be forgiven in that it will never be like it was. With their actions, TFC have lost good people in the stands that may not come back and some of those will replace them aren't nearly of the same quality.

There is a difference.

The stadium will absolutely fill again once the club will be successful. Doubtless, the prices will also be higher. That means supporters who got priced out of seasons tickets will only be able to attend half the games they normally would, or a few less.

That's a conversation to have once we start winning.

If you think some sort of Golden Age of Support has now concluded and it's all downhill from now on, then what are we doing here?

Roogsy
10-15-2010, 02:48 PM
If you think some sort of Golden Age of Support has now concluded and it's all downhill from now on, then what are we doing here?

I think this is more of an issue of "what if" than whether there is anything to salvage. Can something be salvaged of this? Of course it can. Will be it as good as it was or was going to be? I doubt it. Like I said, they took the innocence away.

What we are doing here is fighting for what is left and hoping it will be good enough to remain among the best in the league. Maybe over time the team can repair some of what was lost, but I doubt it will ever be repaired completely. There is a mistrust here that will be difficult to overcome, like a spouse that has been cheated on, you may take the cheating spouse back, but the damage is irrepairable.

TFC had a chance to grow support into the absolute best in the league. I think they have set that back substantially.

mclaren
10-15-2010, 02:55 PM
The rot has set in and things will never be the same again. What we had on day one was something special - real football fans who were knowledgeable and passionate about the sport. The relationship with the FO was good - they appeared to be transparent and willing to engage in a dialogue. We were impressed - what other FO does that? They really care about what we think and feel.

Alas, the wolf has shed its clothing. We know what the FO stands for and how much it values loyalty (we saw that with the Real Madrid game). People stuck up for MLSE, they wanted to think they were honest brokers who just wanted to build and invest in the game - through an academy, new pitch, grass.

The last few months have exposed the lie. We have seen empty seats, masses of them, at nearly every game this season. And that was WITH the fans that have been here since day one. Remove those great fans and what will the atmosphere be like? Imagine that atmosphere with a team that will take many more years of rebuilding.

MLSE has just killed its little cash cow and is just now starting to realise it. That massive waiting list? If it existed, why is MLSE panicking by extending the deadline and holding town hall pr-stunts? That waiting list is nothing but a fiction.

The anger will turn to sadness. And those of us who have been here since day one, wanting to help build something really special in this city, will look back and regret what might have been...

DangerRed
10-15-2010, 02:59 PM
I think this is more of an issue of "what if" than whether there is anything to salvage. Can something be salvaged of this? Of course it can. Will be it as good as it was or was going to be? I doubt it. Like I said, they took the innocence away.

What we are doing here is fighting for what is left and hoping it will be good enough to remain among the best in the league. Maybe over time the team can repair some of what was lost, but I doubt it will ever be repaired completely. There is a mistrust here that will be difficult to overcome, like a spouse that has been cheated on, you may take the cheating spouse back, but the damage is irrepairable.

TFC had a chance to grow support into the absolute best in the league. I think they have set that back substantially.


Yeah, in that sense I suppose you're right -- rewind the clock a year and I would have killed for season tickets. I bought a Marlies ransom pack and supplemented it with after-market purchases, letting me come to virtually every home game this year, just like the year before that.

Now, there are absolutely no circumstances under which I will be talked into buying season tickets and I don't think that will change even if we do start winning. I will still come to BMO next year, a few times, but it will not be every single game. I will continue No way, no how.

And in 2012, even if we get a playoff berth in 2011, I will not buy seasons either. It's this bond that has been broken by the doing of the ownership, even though I love the team and have met many of the players personally.

I don't know how to put it, there's just something tarnished about this team now - a stink that is different from the stench of failure and missed opportunities. I still disagree with you and hope that it can go away, but it won't be for quite some time.

Roogsy
10-15-2010, 03:06 PM
I can agree with you as well. Like it's been said, time will tell. What we can definitely agree on is that they've damaged things and need to work on repairing it. Whether it can be completely repaired is just speculation that won't matter for years to come anyways.

Wagner
10-15-2010, 03:19 PM
Winning will cure most of it.
but the innocence is gone.
it's like having your heart broken for the first time.

Chevy
10-15-2010, 03:22 PM
^^ It's like having your bike stolen as a child.

You realize that there are people out there that could actually do things like that. :(

Alixir
10-15-2010, 03:27 PM
hard to say. With a lot of people in the supporters section who have been there from day one, and have actually brought passion to BMO field, not renewing it may be a while before that same passion and atmosphere returns considering they will never get those seats back again and new people who don't know the chants or share the same passion that those in the supporters sections do will be filling those seats.
:(

Pookie
10-15-2010, 03:32 PM
If MLSE continues to own the team and does nothing to increase the value of a ticket AND maintains Anselmi and Peddie within their reporting structure... then No, I don't think it will return.

The prospect of owning season seats will diminish greatly once TFC runs through their renewals, Gold and Red Lists. It is really looking like single game purchases are the way to go. You appear to have your choice throughout the stadium and in most cases, at a discount.

Once you eliminate the "regulars" you lose the culture.

Now, if MLSE opts (or is forced to) sell of this "sports property" to a new and enthusiastic owner who values the fans, I'll bet there is a short term return of the passion.

The new owner would have a grace period in order to prove that it is different. If they did, we'd be back in business. If it was more of the same, I think that would kill football... again.... in Toronto

Alixir
10-15-2010, 03:37 PM
Now, if MLSE opts (or is forced to) sell of this "sports property" to a new and enthusiastic owner who values the fans, I'll bet there is a short term return of the passion.

problem is MLSE will never sell one of thier assets...to much greed. Sadly it would be of my opinion that if TFC started losing oodles of cash then they would probably just fold the team.
greedy mother fuckers.

TFC Cityboy
10-15-2010, 03:50 PM
Can't answer as a simple yes/no.

MLSE has shown its true colours and inability to understand how to run a football operation and has shat all over the fans/customers.
It will be a long road back for MLSE to earn back any kind of trust/relationship.
Next year will be make or break, in my opinion as we will see what kind of football infrastructure MLSE puts in place.
IF they get that right, and if we see improvement on and off the pitch, then maybe the relationship can be repaired in time.

Having said that there are many who have made the decision to leave and I respect that.
Me? I give them one season to show a marked improvement on and off the pitch. I don't demand champagne football and the MLS Cup. I do expect progress with the FO and the coaching staff all working together and with a "team" on the pitch showing pride in the shirt from back to front and to a man.

Pookie
10-15-2010, 03:54 PM
problem is MLSE will never sell one of thier assets...to much greed. Sadly it would be of my opinion that if TFC started losing oodles of cash then they would probably just fold the team.
greedy mother fuckers.

I think you are right but maybe all the headaches of town halls, negative press, declining season ticket interest, embarrassment of MLS Cup non-sell out, and declining profit margins will eventually get to them.

Beach_Red
10-15-2010, 03:58 PM
I think you are right but maybe all the headaches of town halls, negative press, declining season ticket interest, embarrassment of MLS Cup non-sell out, and declining profit margins will eventually get to them.

Yes, it really seems that at first they thought it would just be a little team, something they picked up next to nothing with a stadium already in place.

Then when it took off they thought they had another Maple Leafs.

Now they will have to reevaluate. Anything can happen.

ManUtd4ever
10-15-2010, 05:15 PM
Great thread. I've wondered about future support as well since the season started to unravel several weeks ago.

I believe under different circumstances, the support for TFC would have recovered (or perhaps exceeded that of years past) with a winning club if our dissent was purely a result of the club's performance on the pitch.

Unfortunately, I agree that the sad reality is that MLSE has exploited a fanbase that demonstrated an unprecedented level of loyalty, dedication, and passion in the MLS and effectively raised the barometer for franchise support throughout the rest of the league. The hardcore support for TFC in this city is not vast enough to endure incompetent mangement on a perennial basis that is greedy as well.

The damage has been done, let's hope it doesn't get any worse...

TFC USA
10-15-2010, 05:20 PM
TFC and support had a nasty break-up, but a playoff appearance or an MLS Cup win next season would be tremendous make-up sex.

Cashcleaner
10-15-2010, 05:44 PM
Mastermixer poses a great question, and one in which I'm really not sure as to what the correct answer is. I guess it really depends on people's perception as to what "support" is and how you can define it in the context of what the OP is asking.

Offhand, I would say that support for TFC will never truly be the same, as we have already lost so many good supporters over this issue, and many more are teetering on the brink. I mean, we're not talking about a handful of casual fans who have been to a few games here and there or maybe took part in a roadtrip, but rather a fairly large portion of the most fanatical and devoted supporters I've seen in Toronto. We're talking about guys who helped shaped the club's identity into what we know it is today. These TFC veterans have been some of the most knowledgeable and passionate supporters I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, and yes, I think TFC will be worse off with their departure.

Now, if the question is more along the lines of a general "can TFC attract 21,000 people for home games like they used to?" I would say it's entirely possible if the club starts winning and the league becomes more recognized across North America. I believe the club has the ability to make the changes to attract more fans, but whether or not they have the initiative is another matter.

I can't speak for others, but I know my passion has been totally drained from me.

Vince Whirlwind
10-15-2010, 05:45 PM
I gave up on the organization when Preki fielded that woeful line-up against Arabe.

Smacked of arrogance and was a total disregard for winning. If he didn't care about getting through the group stages, why should I and why would I want to pay crazy ticket prices to see subsequent, apparently meaningless games?

TFCknw
10-15-2010, 05:47 PM
.......no

trane
10-15-2010, 06:58 PM
You put a proper FO and team on the pitch it will be even bigger and better. BUT IT AL STARTS on the pitch.

Rudy
10-15-2010, 08:09 PM
What is wrong with some people?? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. MLSE owns the leafs, and the raptors... When was the last time the leafs won the cup? When was the last time they made the playoffs? what is the price of Leafs tickets? what is the price of leafs seasons? What makes you people think that MLSE will managed their TFC arm of the business any differently than they manage their Leafs arm. I am prepared to bet anyone on this board. All those people that whine and complain WILL on October 22 submit their credit card information and renew their seasons. If they weren't planning on doing it, and if they really lost hope and interest on TFC they would not be on here whining and complaining. They'd be long gone spending their time and $$ on other entertainment.

Quit the whining. Accept the reality. MLSE didn't get into this business this year or last year, or the 4 years ago. They know what the hell they're doing. And if anyone thinks that they make their profit from the $390 SSH, they are mistaken. There are individuals and corporations who spend $2K, $3K, $4K, $5K, and more on watching the same games that they do. Do you think those people cared about the $2/ticket increase or the 2 games that were added and then taken off??? no! those people renewed the date they got their first renewal email. And who do you really think MLSE cares about???

Let's put things in perspective. For soccer fans, TFC is as close as it gets to real soccer in north america. you don't like it, leave. There will be people who will pick up your Season's.. guaranteed... as certain as MLSE's history in tenure in this business.

Sigh....

THA BUTCHA
10-15-2010, 08:19 PM
Winning cures all IMO

If they put a competitive product on the field and I mean title contending not playoff contending then yes they will

Completely agree.

As cynical as I've become about my team. I know at some point down the road in the future we will be an entertaining team to watch.

Belfast_Boy
10-15-2010, 09:33 PM
Winning might cure all but how long will it take to build a seriously competitive team? Even if they start right now we are talking a year perhaps two.
Without a real GM and coach we are further behind teams like Vancouver that are new.
Lile Rudy said look at the history of MLSE. Its not looking good for our future. If MLSE drives the TFC bus the same way they do the Leafs then BMO will soon sound like the ACC if we let that happen..
Where does that leave us?
Exactly where we are tomorrow fighting for our team. Its our team not theirs. We will call them on all the bullshit they try to pull. But we can't do it if we aren't there. Don't give up your seasons tickets. Don't let their greed fuck up our team.

Macksam
10-15-2010, 09:33 PM
What is wrong with some people?? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. MLSE owns the leafs, and the raptors... When was the last time the leafs won the cup? When was the last time they made the playoffs? what is the price of Leafs tickets? what is the price of leafs seasons? What makes you people think that MLSE will managed their TFC arm of the business any differently than they manage their Leafs arm. I am prepared to bet anyone on this board. All those people that whine and complain WILL on October 22 submit their credit card information and renew their seasons. If they weren't planning on doing it, and if they really lost hope and interest on TFC they would not be on here whining and complaining. They'd be long gone spending their time and $$ on other entertainment.

Quit the whining. Accept the reality. MLSE didn't get into this business this year or last year, or the 4 years ago. They know what the hell they're doing. And if anyone thinks that they make their profit from the $390 SSH, they are mistaken. There are individuals and corporations who spend $2K, $3K, $4K, $5K, and more on watching the same games that they do. Do you think those people cared about the $2/ticket increase or the 2 games that were added and then taken off??? no! those people renewed the date they got their first renewal email. And who do you really think MLSE cares about???

Let's put things in perspective. For soccer fans, TFC is as close as it gets to real soccer in north america. you don't like it, leave. There will be people who will pick up your Season's.. guaranteed... as certain as MLSE's history in tenure in this business.

Sigh....

I don't think so.

mclaren
10-15-2010, 09:59 PM
What is wrong with some people?? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. MLSE owns the leafs, and the raptors... When was the last time the leafs won the cup? When was the last time they made the playoffs? what is the price of Leafs tickets? what is the price of leafs seasons? What makes you people think that MLSE will managed their TFC arm of the business any differently than they manage their Leafs arm. I am prepared to bet anyone on this board. All those people that whine and complain WILL on October 22 submit their credit card information and renew their seasons. If they weren't planning on doing it, and if they really lost hope and interest on TFC they would not be on here whining and complaining. They'd be long gone spending their time and $$ on other entertainment.

Quit the whining. Accept the reality. MLSE didn't get into this business this year or last year, or the 4 years ago. They know what the hell they're doing. And if anyone thinks that they make their profit from the $390 SSH, they are mistaken. There are individuals and corporations who spend $2K, $3K, $4K, $5K, and more on watching the same games that they do. Do you think those people cared about the $2/ticket increase or the 2 games that were added and then taken off??? no! those people renewed the date they got their first renewal email. And who do you really think MLSE cares about???

Let's put things in perspective. For soccer fans, TFC is as close as it gets to real soccer in north america. you don't like it, leave. There will be people who will pick up your Season's.. guaranteed... as certain as MLSE's history in tenure in this business.

Sigh....

What a total load of crap.

Beach_Red
10-15-2010, 10:01 PM
I don't think so.

I don't think so either. The question really is, how many soccer fans are there in the city willing to put up with them? Because for all this talk about MLSE, "knows what they're doing," there's no evidence that they know how to create, or how to grow a market. There aren't any more Leaf fans today than there were before MLSE bought the team. There aren't any more Raptor fans than when they bought the team.

If there's a big enough soccer market for MLS level soccer in Toronto then MLSE will service them as best they can.

We'll find out soon enough how many fans there are for that level of service and this level of league.

Macksam
10-15-2010, 10:12 PM
I don't think so either. The question really is, how many soccer fans are there in the city willing to put up with them? Because for all this talk about MLSE, "knows what they're doing," there's no evidence that they know how to create, or how to grow a market. There aren't any more Leaf fans today than there were before MLSE bought the team. There aren't any more Raptor fans than when they bought the team.

If there's a big enough soccer market for MLS level soccer in Toronto then MLSE will service them as best they can.

We'll find out soon enough how many fans there are for that level of service and this level of league.

The funny thing is we're looking out for MLSE's best interest. We want this team to be a long term success for them. We want this team to build it's fan base and grow throughout the city. We're not just angry because the price increases are pissing us off, we're also upset because the increases will hurt TFC in the long term. When that happens, nobody wins. How they can't see this is beyond me. Even a business student fresh out of university would be able to see how the bad, short term decisions will ruin this club in the long term.

Nomad
10-15-2010, 10:28 PM
Winning cures all IMO

If they put a competitive product on the field and I mean title contending not playoff contending then yes they will

Winning won't cure a God damn thing when you can't afford to go to the matches. Let's face it, Football is a niche sport in North America. The only real time it gets any real press is during the World Cup and most people who follow the WC aren't real football fans (not to say real football fans don;t follow the WC) but rather 2nd/3rd generation of immigrants who want to feel a connection to the "old country". Once you stop going to matches live do you honestly think you'll follow it on TV?

There is no history or tradition to this club to be able to support it from afar or even have a faint interest. TFC is not a Liverpool, it's not a Cubs, it's not a Canadiens, it's not a Celtics. There has been no growing up with the club, very few defining moments to shape the club. We're trying to build that history and tradition but the FO has gone out of their way to help kill that and what's worse is that they are completely unaware. They had this club in the palm of everyones hand and had to do nothing but sit back and let it roll...and somehow they still fuck it up. It'd be unbelievable if it wasn't true.

koryo
10-15-2010, 10:49 PM
I'd like to think that the the passionate support moving forward will be less blind faith, and more grounded realism.

koryo
10-15-2010, 10:59 PM
What is wrong with some people?? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. MLSE owns the leafs, and the raptors... When was the last time the leafs won the cup? When was the last time they made the playoffs? what is the price of Leafs tickets? what is the price of leafs seasons? What makes you people think that MLSE will managed their TFC arm of the business any differently than they manage their Leafs arm. I am prepared to bet anyone on this board. All those people that whine and complain WILL on October 22 submit their credit card information and renew their seasons. If they weren't planning on doing it, and if they really lost hope and interest on TFC they would not be on here whining and complaining. They'd be long gone spending their time and $$ on other entertainment.

Quit the whining. Accept the reality. MLSE didn't get into this business this year or last year, or the 4 years ago. They know what the hell they're doing. And if anyone thinks that they make their profit from the $390 SSH, they are mistaken. There are individuals and corporations who spend $2K, $3K, $4K, $5K, and more on watching the same games that they do. Do you think those people cared about the $2/ticket increase or the 2 games that were added and then taken off??? no! those people renewed the date they got their first renewal email. And who do you really think MLSE cares about???

Let's put things in perspective. For soccer fans, TFC is as close as it gets to real soccer in north america. you don't like it, leave. There will be people who will pick up your Season's.. guaranteed... as certain as MLSE's history in tenure in this business.

Sigh....

Uh huh. Well, I'm leaving.

Listen, if you're content to renew regardless of price increase and regression in performance, that's your slice. Enjoy it.

I hope MLSE does turn the team around, I really do. But renewing on the grounds that TFC is par for the course with their other teams is, well... a personal choice so knock yourself out.

In the future, I suggest you keep your assumptions to yourself, and leave your horse at the door when you shoot your gob off around here. There's a good lad.

Suds
10-15-2010, 11:05 PM
I'd like to think that the the passionate support moving forward will be less blind faith, and more grounded realism.

Well said.

Each of us personally had our own tipping point. There are things about TFC I love. Some I hate. When the balance shifts to the latter I'm out. For me is has not reached that point ... yet.

But while I'm here I will put my effort into supporting the club the best I can and expect the front office to do the same.

koryo
10-15-2010, 11:27 PM
Well said.

Each of us personally had our own tipping point. There are things about TFC I love. Some I hate. When the balance shifts to the latter I'm out. For me is has not reached that point ... yet.

But while I'm here I will put my effort into supporting the club the best I can and expect the front office to do the same.

End of the day, it's an individual's decision. I've had it, but I won't hold it against anyone who hasn't.

Cashcleaner
10-16-2010, 01:45 AM
Well said.

Each of us personally had our own tipping point. There are things about TFC I love. Some I hate. When the balance shifts to the latter I'm out. For me is has not reached that point ... yet.

But while I'm here I will put my effort into supporting the club the best I can and expect the front office to do the same.

For me this is a big part of the whole issue.

Look, I've been a fan of the sport since as long as I can remember. Some of my earliest memories are playing soccer in my hometown as a kid and the love of the game never really left my blood. For years and years I wished we had a local team I could cheer for and support, and it wasn't until I loved to the UK when I had the opportunity to watch the very best soccer live with both good friends and total strangers. Coming back to Canada, it was a blow to my system. As hard as I tried, watching the EPL, SPL, and Ligue 1 on television on Saturday morning just was cutting it for me and I resigned myself to accepting that it would be a long time before I got to see a live match again.

Then, almost out of the blue came the announcement that Toronto would be getting an MLS franchise. After that, everything was looking up now. I now of myself and many others who invested a great deal of time and effort into the club and it really reminded me of the great times I had overseas. Despite the losses and problems of the first two seasons or so, I really didn't care. Sure, I wanted to win, but more importantly I was just really glad to be watching live soccer again. The problem is, after the 3rd season was underway, things started to change. The losses continued and the problems still persisted. Things started to go downhill. Obviously, the end of season 3 was a huge low-point of the club's history. Up until after the game in New York I still had hope that things would change and turn around for the best. I felt for sure that the loss would kick-start the board into installing a new GM and coach, and would commit themselves to putting together a solid squad. As we all know, that's not how things turned out, and here we are.

The point to all that rambling is this: I will cheer for this team under my throat bleeds. I will sing the for our players and coaches. I will follow them on the road and yell and scream at our opponents. I will wear red and spend an unhealthy sum of money on TFC jackets, jerseys, shot glasses, hats, and scarves. I will do all that and more, just as long as I feel the owners and directors are equally committed to this club as I am.

DichioTFC
10-16-2010, 05:42 AM
Potential for the passion to return exists, but I'm not confident that the owners will be able to sustain it.

Bombonera
10-16-2010, 07:50 AM
Come spring, excitement will return. However, I agree with those who say that on the one hand support has been dwindling since Dichio scored to tie and clinch last place (BMO Field used to shake..it hasn't in a long time....), and on the other, it will be next to impossible for us to get over MLSE's misstreatment of us. I mean, they forced us to buy MLS CUp tickets, and expect us to go and cheer...on November 21...for Colombus, the Red Bulls... Wow I get pissed off just writing this post.

BASE
10-16-2010, 07:57 AM
The atmosphere has been on a downward spiral all season. The "awe" factor is gone (very similar to the Jays after a few years at Skydome).

The management at TFC took the fans for granted and perhaps overestimated the loyalty.

The reality is this is a management team that hasn't had to do a whole lot to sell tickets over the years. They were very lucky to come into the league with the Beckham signing shortly thereafter, which of course brought a tremndous amount of publicity and instant credibility to the product. The tickets sold themselves basically and the supporters groups and atmosphere created by the fans did the rest. Based on what has happened with the Champions league series it is apparent that the ticket selling skills are piss poor.

J .
10-16-2010, 08:52 AM
They are pricing out the working class who tend to be the most vocal in support of a sporting club.

They want this to be like the Air Canada Morgue.

Their "correcting" of pricing didnt seem to including the idea of making their ridiculously over priced seats cheaper. Which is what should have happened considering the poor product and league wide pricing.

No support will never be the same and thats the way they want it. They would be more than happy if more soccer moms and less soccer supporters were in the stands filling their coffers buying merch.

deltox
10-16-2010, 08:57 AM
all it will take is a 15 game win streak.

mclaren
10-16-2010, 01:00 PM
Remember a few years ago when we took a convoy of buses and a couple thousand people away to Columbus? Can't see that happening again.

canadian_bhoy
10-16-2010, 01:16 PM
It won't be the same.

The supporters groups have changed

The club has changed

And neither show any signs of going back to the way things were.

As for the apology. It's a joke. And not to insult anyone, but the only reason they issued this apology is because people weren't renewing their tickets.

The groups showed just as much anger and force last year with the Real Madrid fiasco and what did MLSE do? Told us to go F ourselves. But now that people aren't renewing they want to pretend like they're going to kiss our ass (while not lowering prices).

Screw that.

TFC has become just another Toronto sports franchise.

denime
10-16-2010, 07:59 PM
It won't be the same.

The supporters groups have changed

The club has changed

And neither show any signs of going back to the way things were.

As for the apology. It's a joke. And not to insult anyone, but the only reason they issued this apology is because people weren't renewing their tickets.

The groups showed just as much anger and force last year with the Real Madrid fiasco and what did MLSE do? Told us to go F ourselves. But now that people aren't renewing they want to pretend like they're going to kiss our ass (while not lowering prices).

Screw that.

TFC has become just another Toronto sports franchise.

Good points,it will never be the same.

Pookie
10-16-2010, 09:41 PM
Interesting question posed by Mrs Pookie tonight when I got home.

She said, if you are really pissed, why not spend the money we'd spend on seasons for road trips? The money won't be going to MLSE and you'd still be supporting the team.

Interesting...

Bars92
10-17-2010, 12:34 AM
The irony is that the team was so rubbish in the first year, like really terrible. Yet everyone on here is talking about the 'good ol days', like it was some sort of dynasty. I only went to one game first year and went to a lot more in the following three years, so maybe i'm missing something. But the interest for soccer in the city obviously exists, so imagine if the team was actually competive.

DichioTFC
10-17-2010, 01:12 AM
Interesting question posed by Mrs Pookie tonight when I got home.

She said, if you are really pissed, why not spend the money we'd spend on seasons for road trips? The money won't be going to MLSE and you'd still be supporting the team.

Interesting...

I was thinking the exact same thing. Hell, we should have a game where we crash Joes instead of the stadium. Watch the game there, 112 completely empty.

Keystone FC
10-17-2010, 01:23 AM
The irony is that the team was so rubbish in the first year, like really terrible. Yet everyone on here is talking about the 'good ol days', like it was some sort of dynasty. I only went to one game first year and went to a lot more in the following three years, so maybe i'm missing something. But the interest for soccer in the city obviously exists, so imagine if the team was actually competive.
We have to be nostalgic about something when it comes to TFC. I also think we knew we were going to be crap for maybe a year or two so there was an air of expectation that first year that this was going to be the groundwork for something bigger, brighter, and more successful. Four years later TFC is still at year one without a winning season or playoffs in league play. So when we say the 'good ol days' I think it's in reference to the days when we actually thought that the next season would be better. Now, we just hope we're better than the next expansion club.

reggie
10-17-2010, 01:32 AM
i hope this will weed out the part time supporters and the casual fan.
for the life of me i cant understand the staduim being half empty with 10 min left in a one goal game.

maximo_rpd
10-17-2010, 08:31 AM
i hope this will weed out the part time supporters and the casual fan.
for the life of me i cant understand the staduim being half empty with 10 min left in a one goal game.

Let me explain it to you Reggie - only 11,000 actually went to the game yesterday 11,000/22,000 = 1/2

canadian_bhoy
10-17-2010, 10:37 AM
The irony is that the team was so rubbish in the first year, like really terrible. Yet everyone on here is talking about the 'good ol days', like it was some sort of dynasty. I only went to one game first year and went to a lot more in the following three years, so maybe i'm missing something. But the interest for soccer in the city obviously exists, so imagine if the team was actually competive.

I don't speak for everyone, but personally, my anger has nothing to do with the quality of play. I think the club taking the right action to turn the ship around and hopefully we can turn this thing into a winner.

But even if we are a winner, this is MLS. No matter how many balls go into the back of the net, it won't be that great to watch.

Yes, in year one it was exciting and new - but it was also a lot easier to put up with the quality when you were paying $200 for your season ticket. 4 years later the quality is just as bad, but the price is double. And that's BS.

kaos197O
10-17-2010, 10:41 AM
I don't speak for everyone, but personally, my anger has nothing to do with the quality of play. I think the club taking the right action to turn the ship around and hopefully we can turn this thing into a winner.

But even if we are a winner, this is MLS. No matter how many balls go into the back of the net, it won't be that great to watch.

Yes, in year one it was exciting and new - but it was also a lot easier to put up with the quality when you were paying $200 for your season ticket. 4 years later the quality is just as bad, but the price is double. And that's BS.
I don't know about anyone else here, but I have to say that after watching the last 3 or 4 Seattle games I can say I enjoy the style of football they are playing. They are is damn good form right now!

CoachGT
10-17-2010, 11:05 AM
Interesting question posed by Mrs Pookie tonight when I got home.

She said, if you are really pissed, why not spend the money we'd spend on seasons for road trips? The money won't be going to MLSE and you'd still be supporting the team.

Interesting...

Been there. In addition to season tickets.

Result - four years of going to road games and yet to see an MLS win (saw a few in Charleston and the Impact win, but I've yet to see an MLS win on the road).

And nothing like supporting the wallets of your competitors.

reggie
10-17-2010, 11:31 AM
Let me explain it to you Reggie - only 11,000 actually went to the game yesterday 22,000/11,000 = 1/2
i get that...but its been that way all season,people leaving early and i notice more and more non futbol fans at the game,there were about 10 people sitting behind in sec125,they had no clue who tfc were even playing.
i would be happy with 14000 solid footie and weed out these wanna be seen smucks.:drinking:

maximo_rpd
10-17-2010, 01:48 PM
i get that...but its been that way all season,people leaving early and i notice more and more non futbol fans at the game,there were about 10 people sitting behind in sec125,they had no clue who tfc were even playing.
i would be happy with 14000 solid footie and weed out these wanna be seen smucks.:drinking:

I understand what you are saying Reggie, but I think we need those 8,000 wanna be seen folk. They pay prawn prices and thus subsidize our less expensive seats!
:canada:

BFin
10-17-2010, 03:10 PM
Interesting question posed by Mrs Pookie tonight when I got home.

She said, if you are really pissed, why not spend the money we'd spend on seasons for road trips? The money won't be going to MLSE and you'd still be supporting the team.

Interesting...

Because, according to some, real supporters don't do this.

swan
10-17-2010, 07:46 PM
We have to be nostalgic about something when it comes to TFC. I also think we knew we were going to be crap for maybe a year or two so there was an air of expectation that first year that this was going to be the groundwork for something bigger, brighter, and more successful. Four years later TFC is still at year one without a winning season or playoffs in league play. So when we say the 'good ol days' I think it's in reference to the days when we actually thought that the next season would be better. Now, we just hope we're better than the next expansion club.

now doesn't that just make you feel good..lol :scarf:

Derko
10-17-2010, 09:05 PM
It's all about the product on the field, if TFC and management get their shit together and really make an effort, I hope that the passion will return, I protested in my own way, I would have preferred a green cap or green armband, and not take off our TFC jerseys, as we all know that these types of 'Protests' tend to slap the players no matter how many times we as a group say we are angry with management and not the players. Just my thoughts, actually I enjoyed the play on the field for most of the game, beating Columbus would have been an accomplishment.

See you all at the game on Tuesday, to shout and support TFC no matter what!!
And see you all next year as I am sure most have renewed and will be out in full force, remember we have a Canadian MLS rival now, Vancouver.

FluSH
10-17-2010, 09:50 PM
Can we all show up like this guy for the TFC Year end party :D

http://www.nexternal.com/masquerade/images/8015-l1.jpg

Oor Wullie
10-17-2010, 11:02 PM
You forgot to put a U-SECTOR scarf on him Flush BAZINGA

jazzy
10-17-2010, 11:13 PM
Uh huh. Well, I'm leaving.

Listen, if you're content to renew regardless of price increase and regression in performance, that's your slice. Enjoy it.

I hope MLSE does turn the team around, I really do. But renewing on the grounds that TFC is par for the course with their other teams is, well... a personal choice so knock yourself out.

In the future, I suggest you keep your assumptions to yourself, and leave your horse at the door when you shoot your gob off around here. There's a good lad.

....bye!.......^a bit condescending,......opinions are allowed are they not?

Jeffro
10-17-2010, 11:43 PM
....bye!.......^a bit condescending,......opinions are allowed are they not?

I'd say it was condescending in response to condescension...

DichioTFC
10-18-2010, 01:29 AM
^ Did the first condescending response have the same condescension as the second condescending response or was the condescension greater with one of the condescending response?

Seriously guys, there is so much to be upset about, lets not take it out on each other. All the best to you koryo, hope to see you back one day, and jazzy, good on you for not getting terribly offended.

FluSH
10-18-2010, 07:10 AM
You forgot to put a U-SECTOR scarf on him Flush BAZINGA

lol

Listen, I was called a cheerleader once... and rightly so by Koryo... now I owe him a beer for making me see the light.

Fort York Redcoat
10-18-2010, 07:14 AM
Nothing was ever the same. Ever. From year one till now. It's different every year. The passion isn't gone. It's been redirected.

trane
10-18-2010, 10:16 AM
It won't be the same.

The supporters groups have changed

The club has changed

And neither show any signs of going back to the way things were.

As for the apology. It's a joke. And not to insult anyone, but the only reason they issued this apology is because people weren't renewing their tickets.

The groups showed just as much anger and force last year with the Real Madrid fiasco and what did MLSE do? Told us to go F ourselves. But now that people aren't renewing they want to pretend like they're going to kiss our ass (while not lowering prices).

Screw that.

TFC has become just another Toronto sports franchise.

With MLSE heading/owning I agree. But another ownership group? I hope that it could change.

Fort York Redcoat
10-18-2010, 10:24 AM
TFC has become just another Toronto sports franchise.

Where are their town hall meetings held?

Section 117
10-18-2010, 11:23 AM
With MLSE heading/owning I agree. But another ownership group? I hope that it could change.

Trane do you really think a change in ownerhip will do that much to change the way we feel about the team.

What happens is some unknown person buys the team and they (TFC) still sucks would that make it ok. This league is not like Europe where some owner will come in drop a shit load of money on the squad and make us a competitive.

We as supporters have to realize we have changed just as much as the squad as. The neweness has worn off and now all of sudden we aren't as loud as we use to be. this part hurts the most for me persoanlly. In the last two years I have never lost my voice once, maybe it the indifference to what TFC puts on the field I don't know...

Saturday was the most depressing thing I have ever been around with respect to TFC, it felt like I was at the ACC. For the first time in 4 years I actually sat down. I was depressed after the game regardeless of the results due to what transpired I hope it changes.

IMO if TFC puts a winning product on the field and makes us proud to support this team the atmosphere will come back, but it will be different just like we are different then year 1, 2 etc...

my 2 cents

mastermixer
10-18-2010, 03:05 PM
Trane do you really think a change in ownerhip will do that much to change the way we feel about the team.

What happens is some unknown person buys the team and they (TFC) still sucks would that make it ok. This league is not like Europe where some owner will come in drop a shit load of money on the squad and make us a competitive.

We as supporters have to realize we have changed just as much as the squad as. The neweness has worn off and now all of sudden we aren't as loud as we use to be. this part hurts the most for me persoanlly. In the last two years I have never lost my voice once, maybe it the indifference to what TFC puts on the field I don't know...

Saturday was the most depressing thing I have ever been around with respect to TFC, it felt like I was at the ACC. For the first time in 4 years I actually sat down. I was depressed after the game regardeless of the results due to what transpired I hope it changes.

IMO if TFC puts a winning product on the field and makes us proud to support this team the atmosphere will come back, but it will be different just like we are different then year 1, 2 etc...

my 2 cents

You just answered your own question. First two years was new and exciting but blinded the fact that we have not put out an exciting style of football since the first day this team took on that crappy plastic pitch. Once the shine dulled out and took away the blinders, there wasn't much to get excited about.
If we can at least put out a team that plays exciting team football, regardless of wins or losses, I will be there.

ochos
10-18-2010, 03:18 PM
Quick question I'll post in any ticket renewal/protest/town hall meeting/MLSE related thread:

Is it worth it for those of us who've yet to renew to call our ticket agents today and demand a price deduction or else we're not renewing?

Based on the response I may or may not make a new poll/thread (yay! Another protest related thread...)

Voodooman
10-18-2010, 04:41 PM
You know what, I think the passion will return.

gtaguy
10-19-2010, 10:15 PM
I think they broke something special. not sure how it will rebound. only time will tell.


well said Belfast. i agree ..

gtaguy
10-19-2010, 10:20 PM
I don't speak for everyone, but personally, my anger has nothing to do with the quality of play. I think the club taking the right action to turn the ship around and hopefully we can turn this thing into a winner.

But even if we are a winner, this is MLS. No matter how many balls go into the back of the net, it won't be that great to watch.

Yes, in year one it was exciting and new - but it was also a lot easier to put up with the quality when you were paying $200 for your season ticket. 4 years later the quality is just as bad, but the price is double. And that's BS.

like what he said..

Redcoe15
10-20-2010, 09:26 AM
:noidea:

Toronto_Bhoy
10-21-2010, 01:37 PM
It will NEVER be the same.

I always use the "bad boyfriend/girlfriend" analogy.

We all hated MLSE before they were awarded the franchise. But then we get a football team, a football stadium and all of a sudden we have found our long lost love. The passion distorts the the truth…love is blind.

But as time moves on all the old traits reappear. The lies…the deception…the greed.

They were always there. We just couldn't or refused to acknowledge them because…we were in love.

The passion will return but NEVER the way it was. We are all jilted lovers.

Waggy
10-21-2010, 03:24 PM
Doesn't this poll assume MLSE will never sell the team, or be sold itself? New ownership is a new start for everyone

james
10-25-2010, 09:35 AM
It will NEVER be the same.

I always use the "bad boyfriend/girlfriend" analogy.

We all hated MLSE before they were awarded the franchise. But then we get a football team, a football stadium and all of a sudden we have found our long lost love. The passion distorts the the truth…love is blind.

But as time moves on all the old traits reappear. The lies…the deception…the greed.

They were always there. We just couldn't or refused to acknowledge them because…we were in love.

The passion will return but NEVER the way it was. We are all jilted lovers.


that is the perfect analogy :lol:

ilikemusic
10-25-2010, 11:55 AM
MLSE has made it perfectly clear to us how they have approached this team and myself, not being a stupid person, has learned from this.

MLSE wants this team to be like the Leafs, so I will begin consuming the product like I do the Maple Leafs.

I am dropping my season tickets. I will attend 2, maybe 3 games a year if the team is doing well, and that will be my fill.

If people here still want to live in the fantasy world where TFC is 'our club' or 'their club' that is fine, but in my view, the way MLSE has run this club for the past four years should be evidence enough. No specific fan is of any value to them. We are not 'fans' we are points of reference on a supply-demand scale. Not that there is anything wrong with that. This is a business. But it is downright foolish to invest so much passion and emotion into something that does not and will not reciprocate any of those feelings.

Roogsy
10-25-2010, 12:05 PM
The passion will return but NEVER the way it was. We are all jilted lovers.

The worst part? The jilted lover many times is willing to forgive if they're shown attention and consideration. MLSE has shown neither. Not only are we jilted lovers, we're also having sand kicked in our faces on top of it all.

DangerRed
10-25-2010, 02:10 PM
The worst part? The jilted lover many times is willing to forgive if they're shown attention and consideration. MLSE has shown neither. Not only are we jilted lovers, we're also having sand kicked in our faces on top of it all.

Come on now - how can you make a comment like that when you're renewing your season tickets?

Jeffro
10-25-2010, 04:08 PM
Come on now - how can you make a comment like that when you're renewing your season tickets?

Because he supports TFC. He's not giving up, he's continuing the fight. MLSE has always owned this team, you know that right? They're operating now no differently than 4 years ago. If you want to pack up your toys and go home, do it. Some of us will continue to support TFC, keep pressure on the owners and make sure they're accountable.

DangerRed
10-25-2010, 06:39 PM
Because he supports TFC. He's not giving up, he's continuing the fight. MLSE has always owned this team, you know that right? They're operating now no differently than 4 years ago. If you want to pack up your toys and go home, do it. Some of us will continue to support TFC, keep pressure on the owners and make sure they're accountable.

Hahahaha. Surely your beard is larger than your ego?

You're ridiculous. I'm gonna shed a tear. Seriously. Stop.