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dal524
10-13-2010, 02:58 PM
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/10/open-letter-toronto-fc-fans

they are even bad at apologizing....

trane
10-13-2010, 03:02 PM
" We appoligize and as a sign of good will, we will do ............NOTHING."

ArmenJBX
10-13-2010, 03:05 PM
It doesn't matter what you do with ticket prices. You can charge us whatever you'd like, and I'm sure we'd happily pay it, if..

THE TEAM PLAYS WELL ENOUGH TO EARN IT.


You want to apologize to us? Build us a winning team. That's it. I have no problem paying you 390 or 450. That doesn't matter. The only thing that does is that we have a winning team in this city. MLSE, you would be surprised how much a Toronto sports fan will pay to watch a winning team. You want to raise ticket prices? Do it. Just realize that if the team sucks, you'll have to deal with no one buying the tickets.

What I'm trying to say, simply, is that the 50 dollar difference would be an afterthought to every single fan if Toronto FC was a playoff contending and/or winning team. It's as simple as that. We don't care how much it goes up, we only care that it does go up, when the quality doesn't.

Build us a winning team and you'll see how the fans renew and buy your beloved tickets.

Chevy
10-13-2010, 03:06 PM
"Your passion and dedication has been unwavering."

Uhh...not exactly. Have you REALLY been listening?

Regardless, does anybody know if those extra two games will STILL be mandatory if we qualify? There's no mention of them becoming truly optional, only that they are removed from the package at this time.

Red Rat
10-13-2010, 03:06 PM
hey man I got this letter last year!!!
and the year before that and the year before that as well....

hmm is this right or is this a Dejavu?

rr

UltraSuperMegaMo
10-13-2010, 03:11 PM
I though the issue was the cost of the games as much as the number.

dal524
10-13-2010, 03:11 PM
i like how they make no mention of how pissed people are about being forced to buy MLS Cup tickets

dal524
10-13-2010, 03:12 PM
I though the issue was the cost of the games as much as the number.

it was and still is! they just chose to ignore that...along with a few other things.

torontocelt
10-13-2010, 03:12 PM
It doesn't matter what you do with ticket prices. You can charge us whatever you'd like, and I'm sure we'd happily pay it, if..

THE TEAM PLAYS WELL ENOUGH TO EARN IT.


You want to apologize to us? Build us a winning team. That's it. I have no problem paying you 390 or 450. That doesn't matter. The only thing that does is that we have a winning team in this city. MLSE, you would be surprised how much a Toronto sports fan will pay to watch a winning team. You want to raise ticket prices? Do it. Just realize that if the team sucks, you'll have to deal with no one buying the tickets.

What I'm trying to say, simply, is that the 50 dollar difference would be an afterthought to every single fan if Toronto FC was a playoff contending and/or winning team. It's as simple as that. We don't care how much it goes up, we only care that it does go up, when the quality doesn't.

Build us a winning team and you'll see how the fans renew and buy your beloved tickets.

Some of us were being asked to pay >$1200 per ticket to watch TFC, it is nuts and not even a winning team would get me to pay that for one ticket. Not many people in the stadium are paying $390 - $450 although that is what it should be Jimmy.

Roogsy
10-13-2010, 03:22 PM
At least Glen Grunwald had the cojones to apologize to the fans directly, on the court. Those days are long gone.

These guys do it by email and intentionally gloss over or ignore the issues. It makes the apology hard to accept, if they actually care for me to accept it at all that is.

King Jeff
10-13-2010, 03:22 PM
It doesn't matter what you do with ticket prices. You can charge us whatever you'd like, and I'm sure we'd happily pay it, if..

THE TEAM PLAYS WELL ENOUGH TO EARN IT.


You want to apologize to us? Build us a winning team. That's it. I have no problem paying you 390 or 450. That doesn't matter. The only thing that does is that we have a winning team in this city. MLSE, you would be surprised how much a Toronto sports fan will pay to watch a winning team. You want to raise ticket prices? Do it. Just realize that if the team sucks, you'll have to deal with no one buying the tickets.

What I'm trying to say, simply, is that the 50 dollar difference would be an afterthought to every single fan if Toronto FC was a playoff contending and/or winning team. It's as simple as that. We don't care how much it goes up, we only care that it does go up, when the quality doesn't.

Build us a winning team and you'll see how the fans renew and buy your beloved tickets.

Some of your posts get a lot of stick, but this one was spot on. Well done, sir.

ArmenJBX
10-13-2010, 03:24 PM
Some of us were being asked to pay >$1200 per ticket to watch TFC, it is nuts and not even a winning team would get me to pay that for one ticket. Not many people in the stadium are paying $390 - $450 although that is what it should be Jimmy.

Would you pay that $1200+ yearly if Toronto FC is a strong, successful team?

I know I would, and I'm sure a lot of people would.

It seems like money becomes a problem when the quality is not there. That's what MLSE needs to realize. Quality product means happy customers, no matter the price.

If we qualified for playoffs and came in, like....3rd overall in the playoffs, the price hike would be acceptable, no? That's all my point is. A quality product is what will make a price increase acceptable, not this shit we've watched for another year.

P-NUTZ
10-13-2010, 03:29 PM
hahahhaahhhaaaa - twits.

Some bratty kids really have to learn the hard way i suppose.

P.

Oldtimer
10-13-2010, 03:30 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ii9Fqsnc1yE/TDX5Ff9vwBI/AAAAAAAAAI4/YhQw1vUnbL0/s1600/crocodile_tears.jpg

P-NUTZ
10-13-2010, 03:35 PM
at the end they forgot to put:

"...so, please renew by October 15th. Thanks and sorry again."

torontocelt
10-13-2010, 03:35 PM
Would you pay that $1200+ yearly if Toronto FC is a strong, successful team?

I know I would, and I'm sure a lot of people would.

It seems like money becomes a problem when the quality is not there. That's what MLSE needs to realize. Quality product means happy customers, no matter the price.

If we qualified for playoffs and came in, like....3rd overall in the playoffs, the price hike would be acceptable, no? That's all my point is. A quality product is what will make a price increase acceptable, not this shit we've watched for another year.

I understand what you mean but no I would not pay that to see TFC even if they were winning. That works out at about 731 pounds for a season and I reckon they should only be able to charge about half of that. Dont get me wrong if they went out and signed 11 dp's of high quality I would but that is not possible. The football played in the league is not worthy of that much money in my opinion but it is up to the individual.

Ben - D.O.W.
10-13-2010, 03:37 PM
at the end they forgot to put:

"...so, please renew by October 15th. Thanks and sorry again."



You mean the 22nd. Because they're so compassionate and want to give us extra time to wrap our heads around all these confusing numbers.

ArmenJBX
10-13-2010, 03:37 PM
Yeah, I agree, at $1200, it still is pretty high.

It just wouldn't be as upsetting I think. If we win an MLS cup, and have a fun team to watch, it still evens out to what, 60 bux a game?

Ben - D.O.W.
10-13-2010, 03:43 PM
Yeah, I agree, at $1200, it still is pretty high.

It just wouldn't be as upsetting I think. If we win an MLS cup, and have a fun team to watch, it still evens out to what, 60 bux a game?



And $66 / game for the premium ones. Said with no bitterness at all.

mclaren
10-13-2010, 03:48 PM
Nuts and Bolts:

1) What is MLSE trying to achieve by issuing this apology?
2) Will they achieve it?

Roogsy
10-13-2010, 03:51 PM
Nuts and Bolts:

1) What is MLSE trying to achieve by issuing this apology?
2) Will they achieve it?


1) To get renewals on track.

2) I would say probably only to a degree. Most people recognize this as a minimal gesture, not nearly enough to forgive the incredible hubris it took to hike prices over 100% in 4 years.

__wowza
10-13-2010, 03:51 PM
Would you pay that $1200+ yearly if Toronto FC is a strong, successful team?

I know I would, and I'm sure a lot of people would.

It seems like money becomes a problem when the quality is not there. That's what MLSE needs to realize. Quality product means happy customers, no matter the price.

If we qualified for playoffs and came in, like....3rd overall in the playoffs, the price hike would be acceptable, no? That's all my point is. A quality product is what will make a price increase acceptable, not this shit we've watched for another year.

no, the boiling point here was the fact that the price increase was built hot off the heels of another shitty season. if it was built off of an alright season, people would still complain. they complained about meaningless friendlies, they complained about the CL games, they complained about the MLS cup.

simply put, i enjoy the leafs, even when they show flashes of brilliance, even if they were in the fucking cup, i wouldn't go because i would never have the money to see them.

Suds
10-13-2010, 03:52 PM
Yeah, I agree, at $1200, it still is pretty high.

It just wouldn't be as upsetting I think. If we win an MLS cup, and have a fun team to watch, it still evens out to what, 60 bux a game?

Talk to my buddy who lays out ~$10,000 on season seats and see how he feels about price increases and the quality on the field.

There are plenty of people paying more than $1,200/year for this shit!

Beach_Red
10-13-2010, 03:53 PM
Nuts and Bolts:

1) What is MLSE trying to achieve by issuing this apology?
2) Will they achieve it?


1) They want to sell as any season tickets as last year.
2) No.

DangerRed
10-13-2010, 03:57 PM
This apology is disgusting.

First, they didn't listen.

Next, they tell you you're confused.

Now, they're apologizing with nothing but words and the removal of games that shouldn't have been there in the first place.

You still HAVE TO buy MLS Cup tickets. Ticket prices are still HIGHER than last year.

We have no stable managment in place and by all appearances, whoever comes in will have to blow up the squad and start all over again, almost from scratch.

Next season will be an expansion season, except they want you to pay 75% more for the priviledge of watching a first-year team struggle all over again.

ExiledRed
10-13-2010, 04:00 PM
Nuts and Bolts:

1) What is MLSE trying to achieve by issuing this apology?
2) Will they achieve it?

1) damage control and nothing more.
2) partially

mclaren
10-13-2010, 04:02 PM
This apology is disgusting.

First, they didn't listen.

Next, they tell you you're confused.

Now, they're apologizing with nothing but words and the removal of games that shouldn't have been there in the first place.

You still HAVE TO buy MLS Cup tickets. Ticket prices are still HIGHER than last year.

We have no stable managment in place and by all appearances, whoever comes in will have to blow up the squad and start all over again, almost from scratch.

Next season will be an expansion season, except they want you to pay 75% more for the priviledge of watching a first-year team struggle all over again.

Well said - my sentiments exactly.

Belfast_Boy
10-13-2010, 04:03 PM
This Aplogy is lube, in the end you're still getting it.

Roogsy
10-13-2010, 04:04 PM
Well...at least this time it's with lube. In the past, it's been done to us dry.

Still, I'd prefer not to get screwed in the first place.

MFG1
10-13-2010, 04:06 PM
I didnt think i could possibly more insulted than I was already, Not only Iam i not renewing, I might not even watch them on tv hahahahaha keep going you idiots!
Shame on you.

Jeff s
10-13-2010, 04:13 PM
Oh goody! The CCL games, the ones that I was gonna buy anyways (if they were to enter the tournament )are taken off. Alright this benefits me in every single way....

The CCL game will be more expensive when their re-released, just a gut feeling.

reggie
10-13-2010, 04:14 PM
this is getting so fucking boring..jus dont renew and go watch the jays or the argos..

trane
10-13-2010, 04:24 PM
^ What is getting doring is four years of shit football. Four years of hearing the same lame shit from the FO.

reggie
10-13-2010, 04:33 PM
yes it sucks to be a tfc fan..we suck.
but this is a tfc supporters forum and if yr not going to watch or support the team...WHY are you on here(not talking about you trane i like your passion)
saying that..if i see that we are not going in the right direction this season i will not renew.i will still support this team on a game by game basis.

Red Rat
10-13-2010, 04:37 PM
yes it sucks to be a tfc fan..we suck.
but this is a tfc supporters forum and if yr not going to watch or support the team...WHY are you on here(not talking about you trane i like your passion)
saying that..if i see that we are not going in the right direction this season i will not renew.i will still support this team on a game by game basis.

How many Pub owners will love to have a good group of people watching the game. Support your local Pub and TFC at the same time.

rr

trane
10-13-2010, 04:39 PM
Reggie,

I will not get into the how to support the team, but at some point tought love is the way, when we keep on buying tickets we keep on supporting shit managment for this team.

trane
10-13-2010, 04:40 PM
How many Pub owners will love to have a good group of people watching the game. Support your local Pub and TFC at the same time.

rr

Agreed.

reggie
10-13-2010, 04:40 PM
but i dont drink...lol

Red Rat
10-13-2010, 04:41 PM
but i dont drink...lol

you have to eat one day

rr

werewolf
10-13-2010, 04:43 PM
I mentioned last week to everyone's favourite Turk, when people were discussing taking action, that TFC were going to catch wind of something big and the lack of renewals. Subsequently, they would need to do something to boost renewals, and make a big deal out of doing something small, which would ultimately amount to nothing.

Fast-forward a week, they have taken out two games that we unlikely will play-in anyways, and add some spin with an internet article. So when the supporters groups follow through with their plans, the corporation can say that they gave in a little bit, and sway the opinions of independant people and media to some extent. And pre-emptively lessen the PR damage.

reggie
10-13-2010, 04:50 PM
Reggie,

I will not get into the how to support the team, but at some point tought love is the way, when we keep on buying tickets we keep on supporting shit managment for this team.

im with you trane...im giving them 1 more year regarding season tickets..but i will still support this team,ive been waiting to long to get a pro team here(let me know when it arrives..lol)after all we got rid of mo and pricky thats going in the right direction at least.
thats see who they hire to run the club..and yes they also got rid of michelle thats good also.

reggie
10-13-2010, 04:51 PM
you have to eat one day

rr
yes...and i will buy you a drink....rr

prizby
10-13-2010, 04:53 PM
i don't want to yell or anything like most people, but I have to say I am a bit disappointed in the apology, my expectations were a bit higher than what was said, my wants even higher than that though

Red Rat
10-13-2010, 04:55 PM
yes...and i will buy you a drink....rr

you are the man....

rr

reggie
10-13-2010, 05:08 PM
i wonder if there will be free refreshments at the townhall meetings

ArmenJBX
10-13-2010, 05:11 PM
Because we all know the suits at MLSE are reading this thread..

HI MLSE! :) PLEASE, NO MORE MARLIES PACKS! :)

Sonny Cheeba
10-13-2010, 05:23 PM
fork it over and showcase our wonderful city! pay to make us look good on TV for supporting two teams that we don't give one hairy bollock about......c'mon guysies. we're really sawry. pwomiz we'll do betta next year.


what a bunch of shit.

cmonyoureds
10-13-2010, 05:24 PM
This affects price per game how????

And why do I have a feeling this "gesture" will somehow affect the partial packs. Hmmm, more games not in season ticket holders hands = even more weird scheduled/priced partial pack = more wallets and therefore more disposable income?

Not buying it.

GBV
10-13-2010, 05:32 PM
:facepalm::facepalm: Sigggggggggh ..........

Limani_Ole
10-13-2010, 06:00 PM
Tom has lost the plot again.. he should star in Memento 2..


but lets not kid ourselves.. he knows what he is doing...

Still Kicking
10-13-2010, 08:15 PM
Nobody had the guts to put their signature at the close of the email.
Read my blog if you can stand more on the wretched topic.http://torontofcfan-mistakebythelake.blogspot.com/

drewski
10-14-2010, 08:18 AM
actions > words

MoJo (and to a lesser degree Preki) was a good start. Too bad they didn't keep the momentum going with ST prices.

Cashcleaner
10-14-2010, 08:33 AM
I mentioned last week to everyone's favourite Turk, when people were discussing taking action, that TFC were going to catch wind of something big and the lack of renewals. Subsequently, they would need to do something to boost renewals, and make a big deal out of doing something small, which would ultimately amount to nothing.

Fast-forward a week, they have taken out two games that we unlikely will play-in anyways, and add some spin with an internet article. So when the supporters groups follow through with their plans, the corporation can say that they gave in a little bit, and sway the opinions of independant people and media to some extent. And pre-emptively lessen the PR damage.

Wolfie, your recent posts have been hitting the nail squarely on the head, and this one best sums up the thoughts I've had in my head regarding MLSE's 'apology'.

__wowza
10-14-2010, 08:37 AM
actions > words

MoJo (and to a lesser degree Preki) was a good start. Too bad they didn't keep the momentum going with ST prices.

god could you imagine?
how better to show the fans youre truly sorry, and that you understand their angst than freezing SSH hikes for the year and dismissing mo?

ohhhhhhh missed opportunities.

Chevy
10-14-2010, 09:34 AM
i wonder if there will be free refreshments at the townhall meetings

Yes. Kool-Aid.

C.Ronaldo
10-14-2010, 09:49 AM
i just hypothetically flushed their apology down the toilet.


go hypothetically F yourself MLSE.


your not getting my money this year or ever again. Not for the leafs raptors nor TFC.

Shove all your teams up your arse.

Fort York Redcoat
10-14-2010, 10:02 AM
Yes. Kool-Aid.

yum.

How many town hall meetings has there been for the other MLSE teams??

H Bomb
10-14-2010, 10:10 AM
There are comparisons to other MLSE teams here. The leafs hired JFJ, who was not ready/able to do the job...they gave him too long and then they went out and hired the top guy they could, to appease the fans. The raptors hired Babcock who was not ready/able to do the job and they failed and they went out and got the best available guy they could, to ensure sales. TFC hired Mojo who was not able to do the job, gave him too long and now.... here we are. The only thing that matters now is what they do. not what they say. Not if they give us drinks and food at the Townhall, cause they will. Do not play their games people. stand up for yourselves and dont be bought with anything, them talking to us is meaningless if they dont respond with action to the things we demand at these meetings. Them "trying" is nothing, NOTHING.

Fort York Redcoat
10-14-2010, 10:15 AM
There are comparisons to other MLSE teams here. The leafs hired JFJ, who was not ready/able to do the job...they gave him too long and then they went out and hired the top guy they could, to appease the fans. The raptors hired Babcock who was not ready/able to do the job and they failed and they went out and got the best available guy they could, to ensure sales. TFC hired Mojo who was not able to do the job, gave him too long and now.... here we are. The only thing that matters now is what they do. not what they say. Not if they give us drinks and food at the Townhall, cause they will. Do not play their games people. stand up for yourselves and dont be bought with anything, them talking to us is meaningless if they dont respond with action to the things we demand at these meetings. Them "trying" is nothing, NOTHING.

They could be just using a press release, letter to fans, communicate through media like the rest of their teams but they are making a bigger effort than that. We can hold them responsible for what they actually do after the meetings but organizing meetings is doing.

What lip service happens there is up to them but it's not nothing.

reggie
10-14-2010, 10:15 AM
i just hypothetically flushed their apology down the toilet.


go hypothetically F yourself MLSE.


your not getting my money this year or ever again. Not for the leafs raptors nor TFC.

Shove all your teams up your arse.

so i guess this will be the last time you are on this site...

H Bomb
10-14-2010, 10:18 AM
Well its not physically nothing. But it isnt good will. it's "oh shit". If these meetings result in a free MLS cup final ticket and a price freeze then, and only then will they deserve credit for making an effort. Right now they are playing the press in order to save themselves and not create a larger outcry for the casual fans who arent as engaged in this situation as say, we, are. and remember, this is happening after press releases failed. They deserve no credit from us until they actually do something. now is not the time for complacency!

menefreghista
10-14-2010, 10:26 AM
They could be just using a press release, letter to fans, communicate through media like the rest of their teams but they are making a bigger effort than that. We can hold them responsible for what they actually do after the meetings but organizing meetings is doing.

What lip service happens there is up to them but it's not nothing.

The thing is I fully expect them to just spout off all the same platitudes from the apology letter and the Star article.

Nothing will be gained from the town hall meetings. This is just a tactic to attempt to placate an upset fan base.

__wowza
10-14-2010, 10:33 AM
i was just going on in another thread about a few things i recently found out. i've been browsing supporters/other team sites to look for contact info on a potential FIFA 11 tournament, and the more i see how they treat their fans, the more upset i get:


- seattle sounders help the ECS negotiate deals with Alaskan airways for away trips
- dc united have yearly Q&A's with President & CEO Kevin Payne
- san jose (they're in the playoffs remember) has dropped ticket prices in their supporter section 24%


oh, there's going to be a nice little list of these things ready to go for the town hall meeting..

Roogsy
10-14-2010, 10:40 AM
I nominate you to ask those questions at our meeting Wowza. That is some great research. I'd really like to see it posed to them because I don't think they will get that question anywhere else.

__wowza
10-14-2010, 10:43 AM
:D i'm planing on it!

Suds
10-14-2010, 10:48 AM
Well its not physically nothing. But it isnt good will. it's "oh shit". If these meetings result in a free MLS cup final ticket and a price freeze then, and only then will they deserve credit for making an effort. Right now they are playing the press in order to save themselves and not create a larger outcry for the casual fans who arent as engaged in this situation as say, we, are. and remember, this is happening after press releases failed. They deserve no credit from us until they actually do something. now is not the time for complacency!

Awesome point. MLSE tried their usual route of press releases and email trying to muddy the discussion. It failed so this is their next attempt.

Until they actually do something of meaning this is all just smoke and mirrors.

The one and only option in my mind is to pay back the fans for their 4 years of loyalty and give SSH's the MLS CUP for free or at least apply a hefty discount of 60% off the cost of the ticket. Do that and I'll start to believe they actually care about their fans.

C.Ronaldo
10-14-2010, 11:00 AM
so i guess this will be the last time you are on this site...

i'll still watch, but i won't pay.

I use to be a die hard lefs fan, but I had a enough.

I refuse to fork over another dollar to MLSE and their bull.

H Bomb
10-14-2010, 11:05 AM
The one and only option in my mind is to pay back the fans for their 4 years of loyalty and give SSH's the MLS CUP for free or at least apply a hefty discount of 60% off the cost of the ticket. Do that and I'll start to believe they actually care about their fans.


Free MLS cup ticket and a price freeze going forward for say 2-3 seasons. Done, I would sit back and say, okay, they listened, they reacted appropriately, I'm no longer mad.

i dont think itll happen, i hope they prove me wrong.

Roogsy
10-14-2010, 11:11 AM
Free MLS cup ticket and a price freeze going forward for say 2-3 seasons. Done, I would sit back and say, okay, they listened, they reacted appropriately, I'm no longer mad.

i dont think itll happen, i hope they prove me wrong.

The MLS Cup ticket won't be free, not in a million years.

But if they came out and said price freeze for 3 years, I'd applaud them and move on to working together to build a winning club and a great atmosphere.

Section 117
10-14-2010, 11:16 AM
Even if they freeze the prices I doubt they will do it for the upcoming season and if they did it would be a one year thing and then when we get the renewals for year 6 we would be in the same boat, especially if we start winning

romburgundy
10-14-2010, 11:26 AM
This Aplogy is lube, in the end you're still getting it.

Quote of the year can we get this on a banner?

Fort York Redcoat
10-14-2010, 11:27 AM
Well its not physically nothing. But it isnt good will. it's "oh shit". If these meetings result in a free MLS cup final ticket and a price freeze then, and only then will they deserve credit for making an effort. Right now they are playing the press in order to save themselves and not create a larger outcry for the casual fans who arent as engaged in this situation as say, we, are. and remember, this is happening after press releases failed. They deserve no credit from us until they actually do something. now is not the time for complacency!

I don't care what their motivation of the meetings is at this point. I'm going with what opportunity has been presented. If they drop the MLS cup final because Tom had the devil threaten him in the night I don't care. I want results.


The thing is I fully expect them to just spout off all the same platitudes from the apology letter and the Star article.

Nothing will be gained from the town hall meetings. This is just a tactic to attempt to placate an upset fan base.

There has already been gain. It's not enough but I'm not going to say it's better if the meeting never happened.

menefreghista
10-14-2010, 11:35 AM
There has already been gain. It's not enough but I'm not going to say it's better if the meeting never happened.

I agree. Even having the CCL tickets removed was a gain. As small as it was.

I just don't expect much from the meetings. I would love to be proven wrong.

TFC_Toon
10-14-2010, 11:39 AM
A freeze on ticket prices for the upcoming 2011 season and treat the support to a day out at the cup final would be meaningful and make this all go away. But of course in MLSE's eyes we are not worth that much........right?

ExiledRed
10-14-2010, 01:18 PM
I usually give my customers options, translated it would look something like this:


bronze package - all MLS games

silver package - all MLS and Nutrilite

Gold Package - all MLS, Nutrilite, Concacaf qualifiers & first round, and playoff tickets at whatever price they think the market will bear.

Platinum package - everything on Gold, plus any scheduled team canada games, exhibiton games (whoever is playing) and 20% discount on merchandise and concessions, and an autographed shirt.

I would also motivate people to get the better packages by plainly stating that if you dont buy the additional games in advance, you dont get first dibs on your seats when they start selling tickets. This may be a bit cynical, but nobody is pretending that MLSE is not a business.

Jeffro
10-14-2010, 01:59 PM
I usually give my customers options, translated it would look something like this:


bronze package - all MLS games

silver package - all MLS and Nutrilite

Gold Package - all MLS, Nutrilite, Concacaf qualifiers & first round, and playoff tickets at whatever price they think the market will bear.

Platinum package - everything on Gold, plus any scheduled team canada games, exhibiton games (whoever is playing) and 20% discount on merchandise and concessions, and an autographed shirt.

I would also motivate people to get the better packages by plainly stating that if you dont buy the additional games in advance, you dont get first dibs on your seats when they start selling tickets. This may be a bit cynical, but nobody is pretending that MLSE is not a business.

Giving them even better ways to rape us next year?

Wull
10-14-2010, 02:05 PM
I usually give my customers options, translated it would look something like this:


bronze package - all MLS games

silver package - all MLS and Nutrilite

Gold Package - all MLS, Nutrilite, Concacaf qualifiers & first round, and playoff tickets at whatever price they think the market will bear.

Platinum package - everything on Gold, plus any scheduled team canada games, exhibiton games (whoever is playing) and 20% discount on merchandise and concessions, and an autographed shirt.

I would also motivate people to get the better packages by plainly stating that if you dont buy the additional games in advance, you dont get first dibs on your seats when they start selling tickets. This may be a bit cynical, but nobody is pretending that MLSE is not a business.

gold please!! :D

menefreghista
10-14-2010, 02:09 PM
TFC appears to be using .gif format to hide it's apology letter from search engines


http://soccer.fakesigi.com/tfc_gif_format_hide_apology_letter_search_engines. html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+fakesigi%2FTrik+%28Fake+Sigi+ Soccer+Blog%29

ExiledRed
10-14-2010, 02:17 PM
Giving them even better ways to rape us next year?

If you think MLSE need someone like me to tell them how to screw the fans, you've lost the plot.

How would giving you the option to only purchase MLS games at renewal time be rape?

no im presenting what i think is a realistic set of options for a supportership that ranges across many income levels.

When Im selling a website for instance, I give a variety of options so that the client can find the one that fits their budget, if I uncompromisingly stated that every website costs $10,000 and $2000 of that is for flash animation, and that charge is incurred even if they dont want flash on their site, I would be out of business.

P-NUTZ
10-14-2010, 02:44 PM
ok - over a few weeks ago our team was in a meltdown and had injuries and was basically missing playoffs and getting the boot from CCC tourney.

renewals were coming up with retarded prices and unwanted add-ons, the fansbase was bubbling with anger so MLSE decide to finally fire mo, and throw in preki for good measure.

mls sends out renewal correspondence oblivious to all this disgusting travesty, bad PR and push back, the team gets injured players back but suck even more. the press and fans lose their shit. renewals are in massive jeopardy as the heart of the fanbase threaten major retaliations.

On comes THE PLAN, MLSE damage control goes into action:
- "formal" apologies about fucking up the last 4 years
- removal of two horrendous added ticket cash grabs
- MLSE brass pr pleas to the public on radio and tv
- town meetings
- some empty promise to do it right - or better maybe

I guess where im going here is that YOU/WE HAVE BEEN HEARD, and have results.
They are still shitheads, and this doesn't give me back all ive spent personally and financially over the last 4 years, BUT it's something. Maybe there is hope we are getting our rights back as fans and consumers from an organization that has never done this before - never gave a shit when people complained.

Well done for what it's worth - which is still TBD of course.

Fuck em - i'm happy to sit back now and relax, and watch them spend some time, money and energy on me for a change.

Jeffro
10-14-2010, 04:43 PM
If you think MLSE need someone like me to tell them how to screw the fans, you've lost the plot.

How would giving you the option to only purchase MLS games at renewal time be rape?

no im presenting what i think is a realistic set of options for a supportership that ranges across many income levels.

When Im selling a website for instance, I give a variety of options so that the client can find the one that fits their budget, if I uncompromisingly stated that every website costs $10,000 and $2000 of that is for flash animation, and that charge is incurred even if they dont want flash on their site, I would be out of business.

Deep breaths there buddy, I was joking.

Hitcho
10-14-2010, 04:49 PM
It doesn't matter what you do with ticket prices. You can charge us whatever you'd like, and I'm sure we'd happily pay it, if..

THE TEAM PLAYS WELL ENOUGH TO EARN IT.


No.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

It is incredibly dangerous to post this kind of stuff in the open forum Jimmy. DO you realise what kind of green light this gives them to raise prices the day we do actually make the play offs?

WINNING AND PRICING ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

I will not pay senseless prices to watch TFC no matter how often they make the post season.

Get a grip dude. We want, need and deserve fair pricing. They also owe us a winning team, or at least a decent one, but that's a SEPARATE issue.

ArmenJBX
10-14-2010, 04:52 PM
I don't care if I pay 42 dollars or 47 dollars per game if the quality is there.

That's all :D

Roogsy
10-14-2010, 04:55 PM
I don't care if I pay 42 dollars or 47 dollars per game if the quality is there.

That's all :D


This is an insane argument so I am not even going to address it since it pretty much says all it needs to on it's own.

However, following your line of reasoning, since this year's results were bad (hence the quality was not "there"), shouldn't the logical thing be that prices stay the same or go down?

If prices should go up with quality, shouldn't they go down with lack of quality? Or are we looking at a scenario where prices go up regardless and jump even higher when the price improves from one year to the next? What happens if TFC eventually wins the Cup? We can expect $1000 prices for the cheapest seats in the house, the south end?

rocker
10-14-2010, 04:58 PM
deserve fair pricing.

Define fair pricing. And then tell me why Hitcho should be the sole definer of fair pricing.

ArmenJBX
10-14-2010, 05:05 PM
Of course prices should go down.

Quality of play dictates price. If you play bad, you shouldn't charge more. It's like that for everything in the world. Better quality products are more expensive.

The 5 dollar difference would be a trivial detail for many if the team was winning. Because they're not, it becomes a huge deal. Like I said before, if this team won the MLS cup this year, would you feel bad paying whatever they added on this year?

The only reason we're upset it because the quality doesn't match the pricing. That needs to be changed.

Roogsy, I know you have a strong opinion on a lot of things, but honestly, not everything everyone says is fightin' words and if it's an insane thought that you won't address, no need to post. That being said, I agree with you in that, to a certain extent, the prices cannot be 1000 for south end seats. There has to be a reasonable limit. This year, Toronto FC have gone over that limit. It's not fair to charge what they are, and the action being taken I am fully in support of. I want to own season seats too one day, and I don't want to pay over the top for them. I may not be poor but I'm also not a sucker.

The argument I'm making is simply that if MLSE want to add that 5 dollar extra per game, they need to back it up with a good team, otherwise they'll have a repeat of what happened to them this year.

Roogsy
10-14-2010, 05:05 PM
Define fair pricing. And then tell me why Hitcho should be the sole definer of fair pricing.


MLSE defined fair pricing when they instituted the initial pricing structure in the team's initial season. Taken into consideration were their costs and expenses in running the team and revenue projections. Also taken into consideration were the pricing structures of other teams.

Since then, what we have seen is massive price corrections because they have seen an opportunity to maximize revenues. Perfectly legal but of course perfectly stupid in an environment where they have produced a substandard product, especially as the rest of the league produces an increasingly superior product at a far better value to their fans than ours.

We as individuals don't determine "fair pricing", the market does. And considering all the empty seats at the games lately, it would seem MLSE have overestimated their idea of "fair pricing" but are failing to acknowledge it and insisting on keeping their price hike for next year.

Roogsy
10-14-2010, 05:08 PM
The argument I'm making is simply that if MLSE want to add that 5 dollar extra per game, they need to back it up with a good team, otherwise they'll have a repeat of what happened to them this year.

Or something more logical would be to FIRST put a good team on the pitch and THEN charge $5 per game more not do as they did last year and assume they were putting a better product on the pitch, hike prices and the provide fans with a worse product. They are constantly putting the cart before the horse. This is the inherent problem in connecting pricing structures to the team's performance. It will never be consistent from year to year which is why it is foolhardy to connect pricing structures to team results. If that were the case, then fans should have gotten a refund after the first and second years where TFC was one of the worst teams in the league. And we certainly should have seen a refund this year after doing worse than last. But of course, that is bad business when running a sports team, which is why a better idea is simply to have good consistent pricing at a fair value that can be adjusted as needed according to rising revenues, costs and expenses, not according to the performance on the pitch.


I may not be poor but I'm also not a sucker.

I wouldn't want to put it that way exactly, but I can't say it's a very intelligent way to live to simply say "I will pay anything if you give me what I want." A wiser way of living is to ask yourself what a reasonable price to pay would be for a particular item or issue and then make an effort to obtain such an item at that approximate level as opposed to dishing out whatever someone says they will charge you even if on a comparative basis, it is woefully overpriced.

boban
10-14-2010, 05:26 PM
This is an insane argument so I am not even going to address it since it pretty much says all it needs to on it's own.

However, following your line of reasoning, since this year's results were bad (hence the quality was not "there"), shouldn't the logical thing be that prices stay the same or go down?

If prices should go up with quality, shouldn't they go down with lack of quality? Or are we looking at a scenario where prices go up regardless and jump even higher when the price improves from one year to the next? What happens if TFC eventually wins the Cup? We can expect $1000 prices for the cheapest seats in the house, the south end?
:thumbsup:

DichioTFC
10-14-2010, 05:34 PM
The reason for the apology was because of supply and demand. We demanded better and they supplied us with a JPEG of an "apology"

Price freeze on tickets.
Reduce prices on concessions.
Do not gouge on parking.
Better service by the security (trust me, we'll have this issue every April).
Allow flares and streamers.
Cooperate better with the SGs

I dont think anyone here would have an issue paying more for quality football, a winning team and good value in the stadium experience (obviously not this much, but still). But charging more and offering less... ML$E is the fucking Wal-Mart of sports owners.

menefreghista
10-14-2010, 05:53 PM
If that were the case, then fans should have gotten a refund after the first and second years where TFC was one of the worst teams in the league. And we certainly should have seen a refund this year after doing worse than last.


Just wanted to point out that its entirely possible that we finish below the 2008 point total.

ag futbol
10-14-2010, 05:59 PM
We as individuals don't determine "fair pricing", the market does. And considering all the empty seats at the games lately, it would seem MLSE have overestimated their idea of "fair pricing" but are failing to acknowledge it and insisting on keeping their price hike for next year.
Yep. Their business savy seems to have been grossly overstated.

If I was going to take a guess: Somebody laid out a bunch of arbitrary profit targets and then said "what do i need to charge the fans in order to get this?".

Asemli might have said something about "supply and demand" but clearly they didn't even look that far into it. Without lifting a finger anyone who is reasonably astute could have told them the price increase would backfire. That was plainly obvious by the availability of scalper tickets, the number of empty seats in the stadium, and general apathy after four years of a poorly run team.

As for the apology: sounds like they are telling us anything we want to hear. It's plainly obvious they have no regard for their customers beyond extracting more money from their wallets.

Mikey
10-14-2010, 06:02 PM
With season renewals tanking from 90+% to somewhere around 30% they may have to reconsider their original business plan of being happy with average attendances of 13,000

windsorlad111
10-14-2010, 06:03 PM
hey man I got this letter last year!!!
and the year before that and the year before that as well....

hmm is this right or is this a Dejavu?

rr

class.

Hitcho
10-14-2010, 06:22 PM
Define fair pricing. And then tell me why Hitcho should be the sole definer of fair pricing.

So you first you issue a command to give a definition, and then you state that any such definition would be worthless?

Is this your idea of how to be clever? :D

Fair pricing defines itself - take a look at the rest of the league and then ask if it's fair that we pretty much pay more across the board than any other team, despite having just about the shittest record in MLS history? Even taking away the results aspect, why is it that we are getting fleeced compared to other team's fans?

Fair? Reasonable?

Why don't you enlighten us, and then tell us all why you;re qualified to do so, or why no0one apparently is...

Hitcho
10-14-2010, 06:24 PM
Jimmy - you don't care because it's five bucks, right? But break it down into percentage terms and then work out what that difference will be per game inten years if the increases stay on the same path. Then multiply that b the number of games in a season. Then take that number and see if you're still happy to pay the difference without blinking, because it will be a lot more than five bucks.

If you dropped five bucks in the street, would you stop to pick it up?

Indifference to MSLE's actions will make this entire situation a hundred times wors, both in terms of pricing and how the team is run. Remember that. ;)

windsorlad111
10-14-2010, 06:39 PM
MLSE, you are smoking crack. Give me a fair market increase on my seat.

Nothing else justifies anything more than that.

The madness and fun from the first two seasons has gone. Give me something on the pitch to bring that back and then I'll let you sleep with me.

Baggio2TFC
10-14-2010, 08:17 PM
I calld my rep today to renew only 2 of my 4 seats(the cheaper ones of course). He asked me why(pfft) and I explained it is just too expensive now. The increase is not justified yet MLSE felt and increase was due. He continued to tell me that I need to understand that there will be a new coach and a new manager in place next year. I told him unless it is Sir Alex Feguson or Mourinho....forget it. He seemed bothered so I basically said, its either these or nothing......I`ll just get them off scalpers if need be. He quickly ran threw the prosess and then hung up quite quick.


Was he seriouisly trying tyo justify an increase based on the fact that we are getting a new coach and manager next season??? I mean TFC better have a f**king coach and GM....othewise...WTF?? Guy is delusional!!

RedsYNWA
10-14-2010, 08:29 PM
why don't they base ticket prices by results

2007 6 wins using as a base
2008 9 wins + 10%
2009 10 wins + 3.3%
2010 8 Wins ????? I would think a decrease in prices IDIOTS

Hitcho
10-14-2010, 08:45 PM
Was he seriouisly trying tyo justify an increase based on the fact that we are getting a new coach and manager next season??? I mean TFC better have a f**king coach and GM....othewise...WTF?? Guy is delusional!!

Hahahaha, this is so ridiculous it's actually funny! Although quite tragic and pathetic at the same time.

Macksam
10-14-2010, 08:51 PM
As for the apology: sounds like they are telling us anything we want to hear. It's plainly obvious they have no regard for their customers beyond extracting more money from their wallets.
So MLSE is running TFC like Timewarner ran WCW....the top execs basically trying to get as much money out of it while it lasts.

With season renewals tanking from 90+% to somewhere around 30% they may have to reconsider their original business plan of being happy with average attendances of 13,000
How accurate is that?

maximo_rpd
10-14-2010, 09:17 PM
Reggie,

I will not get into the how to support the team, but at some point tought love is the way, when we keep on buying tickets we keep on supporting shit managment for this team.

Trane has it 100% right - we must give MLSE tough love next year by not renewing - it is the only way they will understand that they can't "spin" this away with meaningless blather....

How about GREEN "TUFF LUV" BANNERS for Saturday's game - TUFF LUV should be our message!!!