Town Halls and ST Changes

[Shakes McQueen]

This is also one of the links in Denime's morning news thread, but I figured I'd give the article it's own thread as well, so that all conversation about it can be kept in a central location.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/874347--tfc-moves-to-quell-supporters-revolt

Long story short:

- Anselmi is going to announce a series of "townhall" meetings with TFC supporters, to discuss their anxieties, and the direction of the club.
- They are trimming the season ticket package, to address the outcry about cost.
- Anselmi says, quite frankly, that they "screwed up" with the season ticket package, and are "sorry".

He also goes on to say that Preki and Mo were apparently not on the same page, as the strategy for this season was supposed to be to tweak and make minor changes to the roster from last season - instead of the wholesale changes we ended up getting.

Here's an excerpt from the article:



“The bottom line is you make a plan but then you ignore it and rip the guts of the team apart and change 15 people, all bets are off,” Anselmi said of the massive player overhaul undertaken by Preki and Johnston.

“At Maple Leaf Sports, we’ve been accused at length about suits like me interfering with the team. (This is) proof positive, we don’t interfere.

“We had a general manager and a head coach who played together on both sides of the ocean, won a championship together. You would have thought that they were on the same page. We stayed out of their hair and let them do what they did and maybe that wasn’t the right thing.”

Anselmi insisted that he and other MLSE executives aren’t looking to run the day-to-day operations of the team. But rather than a “one-man band” as under Johnston, he said the new GM will have soccer people around him in the front office, including interim GM Earl Cochrane and Jim Brennan, who earlier this season retired to move to the front office as Johnston’s assistant.


- Scott

[menefreghista]

I hate to be cynical, but I'm sure that these meetings will occur after they have our money.

In a way I am shocked that this has happened. Its unprecedented for a professional sports team to lower its season ticket price during the ticket renewal period. The fact that it was an MLSE team makes it even more stunning.

But I wonder if this is too little too late. How much have the goofs like Anselmi and Beirne irreparably damaged their brand now?

[Shakes McQueen]

My take on this:

The fans made themselves heard, and MLSE are quickly responding. They deserve some credit for that, whatever we think their motivations are. I also like the decision to have town hall-style meetings with the supporters - a real chance to make your thoughts known directly to ownership.

They clearly seem to realize that the fan support of this team hangs precariously on a knife's edge, after four years that have wavered between mediocrity and outright failure.

I'm a little more concerned about his comments that maybe leaving Mo alone to do what he wanted with the roster wasn't the "right thing", but I won't read too much into it before he has a chance to elaborate on what he means. The GM should be able to do whatever he wants with the roster. If you don't have confidence in what the GM is doing, then the GM shouldn't be the GM anymore.

I'm also curious to hear an elaboration on what seems to be a proclamation that the next President/GM of the club will be expected to retain Cochrane and Brennan in their inner circle. The line in the article that mentions them by name isn't a quote though, so I'd like to hear Anselmi's exact thoughts on this idea of having a "group" of soccer people running the team, and whether the GM will be free to pick his own inner circle.

All in all, I think this is a positive development. Actions always speak louder than words, and in that vein, this is a good start. Now they need to earn back some supporter confidence by hiring a proper person to run the club.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

I hate to be cynical, but I'm sure that these meetings will occur after they have our money.

But if it ends up being empty lip service, then they will simply pay for it in spades next year.

I don't care when they hold the meetings, as long as they listen and respond to what we have to say.

- Scott

[Beach_Red]

Have they ever said the next GM will also be president?

[Shakes McQueen]

Have they ever said the next GM will also be president?

I used "President/GM", simply because I don't know what the structure will be. I also used it, because I'm pretty sure Mo was both the GM, and technically the President of TFC - kind of like how Brian Burke is both the President and GM of the Leafs.

- Scott

[H Bomb]

What I want to know is who he is meeting with, where and when. It says meeting with supporters groups. Is that groups of supporters or rpb, u sec, and nee? Its all too vague right now. Just lower the fucking price and get rid of the cup game. Dont get too sucked in peoples. Right now anselmi is enemy number one.

[Beach_Red]

I used "President/GM", simply because I don't know what the structure will be. I also used it, because I'm pretty sure Mo was both the GM, and technically the President of TFC - kind of like how Brian Burke is both the President and GM of the Leafs.

- Scott

In the third season when he signed his extension Mo was promoted to vice president of soccer operations.

This team has never had a soccer guy as president and so far there's been no talk of getting on.

[Brooker]

Town Hall meetings you say? Are we by any chance allowed to bring firearms to these meetings like our friends down south? :D

[King Jeff]

They deserve some credit for that, whatever we think their motivations are.


Whatever. Do we really need to dig out the Anselmi quotes from, like, two weeks ago? Apples, oranges, supply and demand, etc.

Pardon the hyperbole, but I don't see how anyonecan take what they're saying today seriously. This whole thing is a huge slap in the face.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Have they ever said the next GM will also be president?

Anselmi has said this league is better suited to separate GM and coach positions.

[Beach_Red]

Anselmi has said this league is better suited to separate GM and coach positions.

GM and coach, yes, but will the GM also be the president the way Brian Burke is also president of the Leafs? So far it doesn't sound like it and it would make a huge difference when they try and hire someone for the position (Burke, for example, wouldn't have taken just the GM job).

[ArmenJBX]

Can anyone go or just the higher ups for each sg?

[Shakes McQueen]

Anselmi has said this league is better suited to separate GM and coach positions.

I think that makes some sense, simply because in European leagues, managers don't have to worry about stuff like salary caps.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

GM and coach, yes, but will the GM also be the president the way Brian Burke is also president of the Leafs? So far it doesn't sound like it and it would make a huge difference when they try and hire someone for the position (Burke, for example, wouldn't have taken just the GM job).

I suppose it doesn't really matter, depending on how the positions are demarcated. It's hard to say right now.

- Scott

[Beach_Red]

I suppose it doesn't really matter, depending on how the positions are demarcated. It's hard to say right now.

- Scott

I think it's the most important decision they have to make. If they hire another GM but don't make him president, require him to keep much of the coaching staff and lay out a firm plan in advance that can't be changed that will limit the candidates for the job. No amount of, "It's your team, you can do what you want," without it being in the contract works in the real world. So if they don't actually hire a president, someone with many years experience running a soccer team, we'll be no further ahead.

[Shakes McQueen]

I think it's the most important decision they have to make. If they hire another GM but don't make him president, require him to keep much of the coaching staff and lay out a firm plan in advance that can't be changed that will limit the candidates for the job. No amount of, "It's your team, you can do what you want," without it being in the contract works in the real world. So if they don't actually hire a president, someone with many years experience running a soccer team, we'll be no further ahead.

Exactly, which is why I qualified my response by saying it depends how the positions are demarcated.

If the next GM is given the power to hire his own inner circle, hire his own coach, sign his own players, etc. - then it matters less whether he's also technically the "President".

Paul Beeston is the President of the Blue Jays, but it's clear that Alex Anthopoulos is the one running the actual team. Beeston exists to run the mechanical nuts and bolts of the team (stuff like tickets), and as a sounding board for Alex. The actual team decisions are made by Anthopoulos.

As long as the next GM is given the opportunity to truly impose his own rule on the club, the title is irrelevant to me. That's all I was saying.

- Scott

[Oldtimer]

Can anyone go or just the higher ups for each sg?

Good question. We'd just be guessing right now.

Undoubtedly they'll be reaching out to the leadership of each group. Whether they will have further meetings where anyone can attend is anyone's guess.

[TOBOR !]

I have a feeling that these 'Town Halls' will be held at Jack Astor's locations across the city... probably on Thursdays at 8pm.

[torontocelt]

My take on this:

The fans made themselves heard, and MLSE are quickly responding. They deserve some credit for that, whatever we think their motivations are. I also like the decision to have town hall-style meetings with the supporters - a real chance to make your thoughts known directly to ownership.

They clearly seem to realize that the fan support of this team hangs precariously on a knife's edge, after four years that have wavered between mediocrity and outright failure.

I'm a little more concerned about his comments that maybe leaving Mo alone to do what he wanted with the roster wasn't the "right thing", but I won't read too much into it before he has a chance to elaborate on what he means. The GM should be able to do whatever he wants with the roster. If you don't have confidence in what the GM is doing, then the GM shouldn't be the GM anymore.

I'm also curious to hear an elaboration on what seems to be a proclamation that the next President/GM of the club will be expected to retain Cochrane and Brennan in their inner circle. The line in the article that mentions them by name isn't a quote though, so I'd like to hear Anselmi's exact thoughts on this idea of having a "group" of soccer people running the team, and whether the GM will be free to pick his own inner circle.

All in all, I think this is a positive development. Actions always speak louder than words, and in that vein, this is a good start. Now they need to earn back some supporter confidence by hiring a proper person to run the club.

- Scott

Scott I dont think it is as easy as just employing the right man anymore atlhough it is essential that they get it right this time. TFC has burned a massive amount of bridges with insane price hikes and price grabs. They have really sickened a lot of people and I think most people now realise that the actual product on the pitch is no where near the standard that people are expected to be shelling out large sums of money for.

Lets face facts, TFC were trying to rob everyone again this season and from what I can see the drastic action that MLSE are taking now to supposidly remedy the situation is to not force us to pay for two match we haven't even qualified for. The greed is still strong in the MLSE, the sooner they realize that they have more than met the price limit the better for the club and for the fans. Of course I could be proven wrong by the renewal rate come friday but I hope I am not. I really want MLSE to fall flat on their face as soon as possible as regardless of how much they charge for a ST will not impact the performance on the pitch, we were crap when the ticket prices were low and we are still crap now.

[menefreghista]

I have a feeling that these 'Town Halls' will be held at Jack Astor's locations across the city... probably on Thursdays at 8pm.

LOL. I was thinking that too.

[Beach_Red]

Exactly, which is why I qualified my response by saying it depends how the positions are demarcated.

If the next GM is given the power to hire his own inner circle, hire his own coach, sign his own players, etc. - then it matters less whether he's also technically the "President".

Paul Beeston is the President of the Blue Jays, but it's clear that Alex Anthopoulos is the one running the actual team. Beeston exists to run the mechanical nuts and bolts of the team (stuff like tickets), and as a sounding board for Alex. The actual team decisions are made by Anthopoulos.

As long as the next GM is given the opportunity to truly impose his own rule on the club, the title is irrelevant to me. That's all I was saying.

- Scott

Sure, it doesn't matter what the title is (though it will to the person who gets it - or doesn't) but what really matters is who has the power to fire the person who is responsible for the soccer decisions. As president of the Leafs, who can fire Brian Burke? This has a huge effect on who will take the job.

[Darlofletch]

This is also one of the links in Denime's morning news thread, but I figured I'd give the article it's own thread as well, so that all conversation about it can be kept in a central location.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/874347--tfc-moves-to-quell-supporters-revolt

Long story short:

- Anselmi is going to announce a series of "townhall" meetings with TFC supporters, to discuss their anxieties, and the direction of the club.
- They are trimming the season ticket package, to address the outcry about cost.
- Anselmi says, quite frankly, that they "screwed up" with the season ticket package, and are "sorry".

He also goes on to say that Preki and Mo were apparently not on the same page, as the strategy for this season was supposed to be to tweak and make minor changes to the roster from last season - instead of the wholesale changes we ended up getting.

Here's an excerpt from the article:



- Scott

yeah, it's nice that they realise that they have to try and play nice, but we'll see what it actually means as far as ticket prices and supporter relations go.

the disturbing part to me though is that anselmi makes it seems like he's learned his lesson, and that lesson is that he should be interfering more rather than letting the football people he hired do the job. and that talk of jimmy and earl suggest that he's still very much going with him "investments" in people plan and any new gm wil be expected to keep them.

that's not encouraging at all.

[Mark in Ottawa]

Maybe he should hold one on-line.
Then the rest of us "from away" who have been getting the "pay up and shut up" treatment can explain to him why we aren't keen on bringing our tourism $$ to Toronto to view a poor product on the field!

[Fort York Redcoat]

yeah, it's nice that they realise that they have to try and play nice, but we'll see what it actually means as far as ticket prices and supporter relations go.

the disturbing part to me though is that anselmi makes it seems like he's learned his lesson, and that lesson is that he should be interfering more rather than letting the football people he hired do the job. and that talk of jimmy and earl suggest that he's still very much going with him "investments" in people plan and any new gm wil be expected to keep them.

that's not encouraging at all.

I can't say he knows the lesson to learn hear at all. It's not just "make things cheaper" it's also "people don't want to pay for things they don't want" pretty simple. Thanks for saving us from paying for fictional games we haven't qualified for but what about that game that has no TFC in it? MLS cup final.

They want a sold out stadium of malcontents? they'll get it.

[Mark in Ottawa]

MLS cup final.
They want a sold out stadium of malcontents? they'll get it.
For a few minutes?? ... imagine the kickoff followed by the majority of the stadium crowd silently getting up and leaving.

[__wowza]

i really don't know how i feel about this yet.
shieeeeeeeet, i need a cup of coffee.

[Parkdale]

I like that this is happening. In 'days of yore' (you know, season 1) there were a lot more events that would bring TFC Brass and supporters into the same area (usually a bar) to talk about things. Opening up communications and giving people the chance to voice their concerns can't be anything but good (IMO)

and generally 'townhall meetings' are open to lots of people, so I would expect these ones will be the same. Bringing in 10 guys isn't near as effective as bringing in 60.

[__wowza]

okay, i have my morning coffee. i still don't know what to think of this.
i will take this moment, however, to offer you your choice of OBW or MISTA wallpapers courtesy of the TFC SSH renewal website.

http://www.torontofc.ca/renew/downloads/TFC_mista_1024x768.jpg

http://www.torontofc.ca/renew/downloads/TFC_white_1024x768.jpg

[prizby]

Can anyone go or just the higher ups for each sg?

if it is anyone who can go i think it is said town-hall with SG's, so you would have be to affiliated with an SG

just my take

[H Bomb]

I like that this is happening. In 'days of yore' (you know, season 1) there were a lot more events that would bring TFC Brass and supporters into the same area (usually a bar) to talk about things. (IMO)




yeah lot of good that did.

I tell you th one thing that bothers me in the entire article posted is that Tom A claims to be sorry. Fuck you buddy, you think we give a shit that you're sorry? do something buddy, you arent a human to us, nor should you be, you're just a robot in a suit stealing our money. And now you're sorry...good one. Stop talking!!! no more talking! just give us what we demand.

[Parkdale]

http://www.torontofc.ca/renew/downloads/TFC_mista_1024x768.jpg



anyone else see the resemblance?

http://www.thestilettomom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/spicoli.jpg

[flatpicker]

Sounds like a step in the right direction.
If they do make changes to the ST's, I doubt it will have anything to do with MLS Cup tix.
More likely, they would try to sweeten the pot by reducing prices slightly or adding an extra "free" friendly to the schedule.

The article didn't leave me with the impression that Anselmi wants to interfere with soccer operations necessarily.
Seems more like he wants to have a small soccer management committee to make decisions rather than have one man run wild.
That plan could really go either way... decisions aren't always made easily when done by committee.
But it could prevent rash choices being made about the club.
On the other hand, a single man in power could have worked if it were the "right" man... unlike Mo.

[__wowza]

this is a great way to sweep the supporters under the rug and provide a positive PR move by the FO. it really does look great, and d'ya know what? they're absolutely brilliant for doing it. there's going to be articles in every major print publication in the city that'll read "MLSE reaches out to angry supporters".

in the meantime, how do we look when we organize a protest as the FO has already stated publicly that they're addressing our concerns? we decide to keep our foot on the gas (like we should). we'll look like tossers if we don't call an audible and readjust our plans.

again, it's a brilliant move.

within 24 hours of the season seat holder package info being released there was discontent, did they really think it was supposed to get better? there's been discussion on the board for WEEKS about our next course of action.their decision to address our concerns NOW is a reactionary one. make no mistake about it. you don't taunt a rabid dog and then feel bad for getting bit. you don't apologize when you've done something you know will have negative consequences. it's what marks the difference between "i'm sorry" and "i'm sorry i got caught".




so where the fuck do we go from here?

[brad]

This move is pretty clear IMHO.

Season ticket renewals have sucked, and they are dropping of tickets to bring the price down to get people to renew.

Now, they know almost everyone in the supporters groups will buy these dropped tickets next year when the time comes. Attendance was pretty solid for these games this year, so I bet they are banking on selling a decent number to the rest of these folks. They'll end up with the same amount of cash more or less.

It's all a marketing ploy. If they really wanted to appease us, they'd make the MLS cup optional.

[Technorgasm]

BORIS - PHIL & EXECUTIVE TEAM

will have to come up with a solid plan of attack while representing us.

Its up to you guys to determine what type of input you would like from the rest of teh plebs round here.

Lets treat this as an opportunity.
if its a media guided iniiative or not.
VERY rarely woudl supporters in NA sport be invited to communicate with the FO.

HUGE lol for _wowza's Wallpaper post. . .

[Parkdale]

It's all a marketing ploy. If they really wanted to appease us, they'd make the MLS cup optional.


but it could be too late to do that.

The CCL games are 3/4 of a year away, the MLS Cup is a month away.
I'm not sure if they would ever consider dropping the cup, but I bet that
even if they wanted to, it would be a mad scramble with a huge potential for mistakes.

[DangerRed]

Yeah, this is definitely a good start, but it's clear that they're not budging on the MLS Cup inclusion. Nor is there any indication that next season will be anything other than another expansion year for a team which by then will be in the fifth year of its existence.

I agree with Anselmi, we had wholesale changes on the squad this season. His comments and our performance clearly imply that those changes were bad. To undo them, another round of wholesale changes is required.

Even if they hire a great coach and a good GM (or, if Earl Cochrane proves to be a good GM, I should say), what reason do we have to believe that all rebuilding and gutting of the team will be complete by the time the offseason is over?

[flatpicker]

but it could be too late to do that.

The CCL games are 3/4 of a year away, the MLS Cup is a month away.
I'm not sure if they would ever consider dropping the cup, but I bet that
even if they wanted to, it would be a mad scramble with a huge potential for mistakes.


Yup... Cup tix will stay as they are... there's no time to make changes to that.
People need to accept that as a fact of life and move on.
But there are other areas in which MLSE can ease the pain.

As for _wowza's feelings of it being a well planned ploy...
Well, I don't see how that's a bad thing... what else would you expect a company to do?
Every decision they make is a business decision.
What's important here is that they are doing something in reaction to our cries for justice.

[Parkdale]

What's important here is that they are doing something in reaction to our cries for justice.


I guess doing something is better than just doing nothing.

and as far as this being a timed event used to 'take the wind out of our sails'....

now every journalist will be watching the south end at the match this weekend.... and we're still putting our message forward.

[Fort York Redcoat]

People need to accept that as a fact of life and move on.

What's important here is that they are doing something in reaction to our cries for justice.

Acceptance takes many forms. Yes I have to buy a ticket to MLS cup final. I don't have to go. Or even better, I can go and let them know how I feel about it.

[Phil]

I dont think anything that we do this year will affect this years tickets.

The battle is on for them to understand that next year this is not going to be tolerated.

[Boris]

BORIS - PHIL & EXECUTIVE TEAM

will have to come up with a solid plan of attack while representing us.

Its up to you guys to determine what type of input you would like from the rest of teh plebs round here.

Lets treat this as an opportunity.
if its a media guided iniiative or not.
VERY rarely woudl supporters in NA sport be invited to communicate with the FO.

HUGE lol for _wowza's Wallpaper post. . .

working on it right now....just making a few posts

[brad]

Yup... Cup tix will stay as they are... there's no time to make changes to that.
People need to accept that as a fact of life and move on.
But there are other areas in which MLSE can ease the pain.


I don't see this as easing the pain. They are lowering the cost by removing tickets that most people will buy anyway.

[flambe]

Just received my mail invoice and called my rep.

He confirmed that 2 CCL are being removed and that the payment date is being pushed out by a week to cover the delayed mail invoices (which apparently were delayed due to a printer screw up).

Everything else is the same, MLS Cup is still mandatory.

MLSE, you blow, nothing has changed except the delay of payment for the CCL games, assuming we qualify.

Thanks for listening Tom.
:o

[__wowza]

As for _wowza's feelings of it being a well planned ploy...
Well, I don't see how that's a bad thing... what else would you expect a company to do?
Every decision they make is a business decision.
What's important here is that they are doing something in reaction to our cries for justice.

i wasn't being sarcastic when i stated that it was a great decision.
i still do believe this. it's a brilliant move.

i'm not bemoaning their reaction, but to think that this is them being legitimately sorry is highly unlikely. i'm calling just a spade is a spade.



anyways, if this is the route that they go, and they indeed have listened (whatever their motivations may be) then can we please change our banner campaign to:

http://silentmajority09.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/big-brother-poster.jpg

complete with two minutes of hate at every home game until this issue is resolved?

[flambe]

i'm not bemoaning their reaction, but to think that this is them being legitimately sorry is highly unlikely. i'm calling just a spade is a spade.

This is damage control, nothing more. They haven't actually given us anything.

[Shakes McQueen]

Just received my mail invoice and called my rep.

He confirmed that 2 CCL are being removed and that the payment date is being pushed out by a week to cover the delayed mail invoices (which apparently were delayed due to a printer screw up).

Everything else is the same, MLS Cup is still mandatory.

MLSE, you blow, nothing has changed except the delay of payment for the CCL games, assuming we qualify.

Thanks for listening Tom.
:o

I never expected the MLS Cup to be removed from the package. For starters, the game is about a month away, and secondly, it's entirely possible that putting it in the package was a condition of them getting the game in the first place.

I agree with the outcry over the decision to put the game in, in the first place. But being upset because they haven't removed it after the fact is pointless.

- Scott

[__wowza]

This is damage control, nothing more. They haven't actually given us anything.

moreseo, they've stated that they're willing (not going to) listen to us throught these town hall forums. they shouldn't really be commended for listening to their fans.

[DangerRed]

This is damage control, nothing more. They haven't actually given us anything.

But you don't mind, right? That's why you renewed?

[flambe]

I never expected the MLS Cup to be removed from the package. For starters, the game is about a month away, and secondly, it's entirely possible that putting it in the package was a condition of them getting the game in the first place.

I agree with the outcry over the decision to put the game in, in the first place. But being upset because they haven't removed it after the fact is pointless.

- Scott

Understood, I'm not upset, just relaying what my account rep told me.

[Boris]

if it is anyone who can go i think it is said town-hall with SG's, so you would have be to affiliated with an SG

just my take

to further that, RPB will have an exclusive windows for members only however they are arranging other windows for others to attend

[flambe]

But you don't mind, right? That's why you renewed?

I have renewed yes, I have also sold my tickets on to a 3rd party.

[Boris]

Members Only: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=24962

[H Bomb]

to further that, RPB will have an exclusive windows for members only however they are arranging other windows for others to attend


this is good. I thought they'd completely missed the plot yet again.

[TFC_Junky]

Whether Anselmi's quotes in the star article are complete bullocks or not, it's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned. MSLE needs to understand the supporter groups and the role they play in keeping the atmosphere the way it is and the relationship we bring with keeping other asses in seats. I'm glad they "seem" to be taking this seriously and the idea of a town-hall is a great way to speak directly to MLSE and let them know what we think is wrong.

[mclaren]

well, I don't know the full details, but I am BLOWN AWAY by this! If we as supporters fall for this then we may as well tattoo SUCKER to our foreheads! If all they are "giving" us is the option NOT to buy Champions League tickets that we haven't even qualified for, then we are suckers big time if we buy in. MLSE just shows us more DISRESPECT each day. How much did they think our loyalty was worth again for the Real game? $10 was it?

[mclaren]

I never expected the MLS Cup to be removed from the package. For starters, the game is about a month away, and secondly, it's entirely possible that putting it in the package was a condition of them getting the game in the first place.

I agree with the outcry over the decision to put the game in, in the first place. But being upset because they haven't removed it after the fact is pointless.

- Scott

If this was a condition of getting the MLS Cup, they should have forewarned season ticket holders AGES ago. That would have gone a long way to quelling this anger. I am still not renewing.

[scooterTFC]

Scott I dont think it is as easy as just employing the right man anymore atlhough it is essential that they get it right this time. TFC has burned a massive amount of bridges with insane price hikes and price grabs. They have really sickened a lot of people and I think most people now realise that the actual product on the pitch is no where near the standard that people are expected to be shelling out large sums of money for.

Lets face facts, TFC were trying to rob everyone again this season and from what I can see the drastic action that MLSE are taking now to supposidly remedy the situation is to not force us to pay for two match we haven't even qualified for. The greed is still strong in the MLSE, the sooner they realize that they have more than met the price limit the better for the club and for the fans. Of course I could be proven wrong by the renewal rate come friday but I hope I am not. I really want MLSE to fall flat on their face as soon as possible as regardless of how much they charge for a ST will not impact the performance on the pitch, we were crap when the ticket prices were low and we are still crap now.

So by increasing the ticket prices MLSE extra revenue per seat but risks a lower renewal rate. A lower renewal rate isn't a problem is you think you have a waiting list of of tens of thousands of people who will buy up any seats not renewed. So if demand far exceeds supply it makes sense to increase the price dramatically, lose some old customers and replace them with new customers willing to pay the higher rate. Renewal prices are discounted and new SSH buyers pay a higher price. So as an extra bonus you not only get more revenue per seat from the price increase but you also get some extra revenue by giving less renewal discounts.

MLSE will make more money on your seat if you don't renew. Is it a coincidence that they are re-packaging the deal at the end of the renewal period just as they have to market to the waiting list customers?

[mclaren]

So by increasing the ticket prices MLSE extra revenue per seat but risks a lower renewal rate. A lower renewal rate isn't a problem is you think you have a waiting list of of tens of thousands of people who will buy up any seats not renewed. So if demand far exceeds supply it makes sense to increase the price dramatically, lose some old customers and replace them with new customers willing to pay the higher rate. Renewal prices are discounted and new SSH buyers pay a higher price. So as an extra bonus you not only get more revenue per seat from the price increase but you also get some extra revenue by giving less renewal discounts.

MLSE will make more money on your seat if you don't renew. Is it a coincidence that they are re-packaging the deal at the end of the renewal period just as they have to market to the waiting list customers?

The only problem with this argument is that you (generally) replace knowledgeable fans, been here since day one, with tourists. You therefore ruin the atmosphere, which is one of the key reasons a lot of people go to games. Let's face it, we don't go for the quality of football. Short-term vision on MLSE's end.

[torontocelt]

If the prices were kept reasonable then I am sure people that love to attend live football would buy them on a year by year basis. By pricing out people who are willing to do this it may be hard to get them back if and when the time comes that other fans who dont really care about football as much decide that they no longer want their ST. There is no reason to expect that TFC will continue to be successful for a long time, I think that the MLSE have made some really bad moves over the short history of the club and people are begining to realise that they are really being shafted. Anything above light greay prices is insane for an MLS club to be charging, I honestly believe that. I still reckon we will be at least 5 years off getting to those prices throughout the stadium though.

[mclaren]

If the prices were kept reasonable then I am sure people that love to attend live football would buy them on a year by year basis. By pricing out people who are willing to do this it may be hard to get them back if and when the time comes that other fans who dont really care about football as much decide that they no longer want their ST. There is no reason to expect that TFC will continue to be successful for a long time, I think that the MLSE have made some really bad moves over the short history of the club and people are begining to realise that they are really being shafted. Anything above light greay prices is insane for an MLS club to be charging, I honestly believe that. I still reckon we will be at least 5 years off getting to those prices throughout the stadium though.

This is really the crux of the problem - you're absolutely right that once fans have been burned it will be very difficult, if not impossible to get them back. People who used to love this club are now feeling very, very bitter - that includes me and many of my friends.

[spark]

Not to mention this is already happening. How many people had 2 pairs and are getting rid of one? Are they ever going to try and get 2 pairs again? I think ALOT of people are sitting on the fence and pretty close to just jumping off because of how poorly the franchise has been run.

it's what marks the difference between "i'm sorry" and "i'm sorry i got caught".

This is the quote that should sum everything up. Anyone saying "Oh they listened to us! They are doing 'something'" Good grief. Thank you for the crumbs. Once again we are powerless and should be thankful for anything when it's us who is paying to be a part of this $hit show. I'm really hoping we can all stick together and say "THIS is what we want. If you don't this will be the consequence."

[scooterTFC]

The only problem with this argument is that you (generally) replace knowledgeable fans, been here since day one, with tourists. You therefore ruin the atmosphere, which is one of the key reasons a lot of people go to games. Let's face it, we don't go for the quality of football. Short-term vision on MLSE's end.

Generally speaking I don't disagree with what your saying. However the financial analysts who build revenue models for big companies don't deal with that stuff your talking about, they just get told by the CFO to figure out how to get more revenue and then they do some math looking at price, number of seats and number of games, total potential revenue, time value of money, price elasticiy of demand etc. The sales and marketing executives need to care about the customer experience stuff you mentioend, and ussually they have a big fight with the CFO and a comprimise is reached.

The counterpoint to your argument would be that perhaps some new blood in the stands would freshen things up. Just cause I've had tix for 4 years doesn't mean I'm better for the 'atmosphere' then a newbie. It could be argued that newbies would be happy and excited just to get to watch games and they might cheer and sing louder then the old guard that is jaded and cynical after suffering through 4 hopeless years.

[rocker]

The only problem with this argument is that you (generally) replace knowledgeable fans, been here since day one, with tourists. You therefore ruin the atmosphere, which is one of the key reasons a lot of people go to games. Let's face it, we don't go for the quality of football. Short-term vision on MLSE's end.

I can understand that... but you're generalizing that everyone who's been there since 2007 is a knowledgeable or better fan than the ones who may come onboard this offseason.

I can say from experience, I sit amongst a group of buddies who have never worn red... have always come late, left early (since 2008 when I moved to that section)... who are always complaining about MLS. They talked about not renewing. If these guys finally decide not to renew, then good riddance. These were Beckham Boys who got tickets because of him.

Now, if MLS does improve over the next 5-10 years, the originals may actually end up being a smaller part of the fanbase... Imagine if TFC signed a DP on the level of Beckham or Henry? Imagine if TFC actually started to win? I think the fanbase would be renewed with a whole new generation of people.

[Nuvinho]

$790 now for supporters section for 2 seats.

[Section225]

$792.00 for 225 Family Section 1 seat. :mad:

[spark]

Where did you get those $$ from?

[Dave67]

^ the new invoices are up in the account manager. All they did was remove the charge for 2 CONCACAF games we have not qualified for yet. That's where people are getting the $$ from.

[menefreghista]

Where did you get those $$ from?

Account Manager

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I wonder what's going to happen to those who have renewed? Will we get a rebate and just leave things as they are?

[Dave67]

^ you will get equal value in Marlies 50% off vouchers.

[Mikey]

I wonder what's going to happen to those who have renewed? Will we get a rebate and just leave things as they are?

You will recieve 10,000 ML$E "miles" redeemable at a BMO concession stand only during 2011 CL games (for which you no longer have a ticket). you only need 250,000 Maple Leaf Sports and Extortion miles to purchase a hot dog (bun extra, condiments do not apply)

[Technorgasm]

I don’t like increases, but my Columbus crew ticket with a value of $19 seems like a VERY low price for a sporting event in Toronto. Considering I used to pay $1100 for a season seat in the dark grey nosebleeds . . .
19-28$ for a day at the park seems totally reasonable.

When you start a franchise, offering a sport product that has failed here, and in other cities (NESL), the original initial season price is obviously going to be more attractive.

Corporately sold seats are written off anyways, so for reds and dark greys gouge away, they will get sold regardless.

This is a capped league, 3 new players can change the fortunes of an MLS squad drastically (see NYRB / RSL), as long as the organization is financially sound success is always just around the corner. With a football professional GM, manager and little interference from MLSE we can win.

The target for TFC was 14-16,000 every game a HUGE number considering the league average. They have been blessed with an average attendance of 20K+. The market can obviously bear a higher price.

How can a fan think $$ will equal results? You think the New Jersey Nets, or New Castle FC protest about increasing prices and decreasing results?

Protests without a proposed solution prove nothing.

"hey, so what are you guys protesting?".
"MLSE's greed"
"So what are you trying to get people to do?"
"We're telling people that MLSE is greedy".
"But what's the action you want to happen?"
"uhhhhhhh"

I hate to be devils advocate here, but it seems like alarmism and irrational sour grapes. Boo hoo we misseed the play offs, we are losers once again, we fucking suck ass chunks. . . . and then we are Hit in the face for more $.. . . right.

We want cheaper tickets or better results. is that it?

[H Bomb]

I want cheaper tickets in truth. I'm mad about the performances, real mad. But they fired Mo, and Preki, and in sports things change all the time. The problem I have is that we are being taken advantage of by a group that expect us to perform, while not performing themselves. Its been said many times that we (SG's mostly) are a part of advertising, which is true. We have also created much larger than anticipated revenues. So after giving them more money than they thought they would get, they are now not willing to take less profit, and we arent talking losses here, we're talking less profit. It's bad business. Sure if you're selling one thing one time you take as much as you can get for it....but that's not the case here, they are trying to resell things, and in order to do that successfully you need your customers to feel ...well loved for lack of a better word. And if they only had we would have backed them to the hilt. But now we wont, probably not ever. But this is bad morals, bad ethics, bad business, bad humanity....there's no good side to their behavior and to not do anything at all, well that's not in me (or most here) to do.

[Cashcleaner]

^ Agreed. Cheaper tickets.

Look, the issue isn't so much the cost in and of themselves. The issue is the trend. And if ticket sales keep trending as MLSE has had them over the past five years, a single seat in 112 could be as high as $800 in 2016. That would also mean a single seat in 111 could cost over a grand in five years time!

I don't even want to think what prices the mid-field reds would be at in 2016.

[Beach_Red]

^ yes, you're right. The thing is, next season really will be the first season.

MLSE are asking for a do-over, saying this time they'll do it right, they'll go out and hire a knowledgeable soccer consultant who will conduct a search and recommend to them a proper GM to run the team - exactly what they should have done in the first place. Exactly what they did for their hockey and basketball teams.

So, if they want to start over, the least they should do is start over at year one prices. Hell they SHOULD offer a refund for the last four years.

[Roogsy]

We want cheaper tickets or better results. is that it?


Let me help you with this one Techno.

What rationale is there in the past 4 seasons to hike prices in the double digits each season? We haven't made the playoffs. Our first trophy was practically a fluke. And we've been through 5 coaches.

And yet they have hiked anyways.

Now imagine if Toronto ever starts winning! What's going to happen to your tickets? More and more price hikes. We are already at a point where the supporters tickets are twice what they were when the team first entered the league. If these increases continue at this pace, they will be 3x the price they were by our 10th season.

That's not inflation, that's gouging.

So when do you send them a message? Can we do it next year when the team may make it into the playoffs and the FO hikes prices yet again another ridiculous amount? Again I ask, when do you send them a message to stop it. Stop gouging the fans. Stop pricing out loyal supporters in favour of suits and corporate seat holders? When is that message sent? When everyone is gone?

I not only want cheaper tickets (although I realize that is almost an impossibility with this organization) I want them to think twice before hiking prices again. I want them to actually consider the fans for once as opposed to wrapping themselves in the blanket of the "supply and demand" theory. I want them to fear raising tickets prices unless they have every justification to do so. So how does this happen if the fans don't revolt?

[Parkdale]

and yes.... it's still a cheap ticket in some place in the stadium... BUT it's increasing at a rate completely unrelated to the product (or inversly related) and will continue to do so until it's no longer a cheap ticket.

[Cashcleaner]

^ yes, you're right. The thing is, next season really will be the first season.

MLSE are asking for a do-over, saying this time they'll do it right, they'll go out and hire a knowledgeable soccer consultant who will conduct a search and recommend to them a proper GM to run the team - exactly what they should have done in the first place. Exactly what they did for their hockey and basketball teams.

So, if they want to start over, the least they should do is start over at year one prices. Hell they SHOULD offer a refund for the last four years.

Look, I'm not unreasonable. I don't expect them to drop prices and I don't think any sort of refund is warranted. But I do think a price freeze should be put into effect for next season and an understanding to be made that any future price increases will reflect the on-pitch quality and monies re-invested into the club.

[Beach_Red]

Look, I'm not unreasonable. I don't expect them to drop prices and I don't think any sort of refund is warranted. But I do think a price freeze should be put into effect for next season and an understanding to be made that any future price increases will reflect the on-pitch quality and monies re-invested into the club.


Oh, you're right, I certinly don't expect it. I also don't expect them to admit that they're asking for a do-over.

And I don't really expact them to ever admit that prices may be tied to anything other than demand. Of course, if the on-pitch quality drops, so will the demand, but there's a lag, that's what we're seeing now. People aren't so upset about this particular increase, but about the years of increases while the product just wasn't there.

Really it's a matter of faith - we knew an expansion team would struggle, but we put our fath in them and bought season tickets - an investment in the future. Now what we're seeing is that for four years they took the money and didn't really have a plan for the team. They didn't treat TFC as professionally as they did their other teams and they trusted that we'd blame it all on Mo and not look past that.

But now, as they admit things like they never should have left Mo out there by himself for so long it's laughable - of course they shouldn't have. NOW they say they'll hire a consultant and start treating this team like their other teams, now they're finally taking the team seriously.

But you're right, of course, they'll never put that in an apology that anyone signs their name to, it will just have to be an unspoken part of the apology, "We took your money with no intention of building a proper organization and will only do that once you stop givng us your money."

[boban]

When you start a franchise, offering a sport product that has failed here, and in other cities (NESL), the original initial season price is obviously going to be more attractive.
But it didn't fail. When the NASL folded, the Cosmos and Blizzard were the two remaining teams if I recall. You can't have a 2 team league.

[billyfly]

GREEN PATCH BOYS we are here
Steal your women, drink your beer

[C.Ronaldo]

make tickets the same price as year 1

we suck just as much as year one so why pay more than year 1.

we dont even have an Fn GM or real coach for God sakes.


TFC needs

1) A vote from the fans, a position that is created to represent the fans at all higher up meetings.

2) for the next while, tie ticket prices to on field performance.

3) bring back the organic atmosphere. Let any section stand for longer than 3 seconds. Streamers, signs, bring em back. BMO is a dead mans land now outside of the supporters sections. And just winning more isn't going to help much

[mastermixer]

I think this idea of a price freeze due to on-field performance is a little skewed. For the most part wins in sports cannot be controled so how can a sports team base prices on this. If this was the case the Cubs would have been paying their fans to go to games up until a few years ago.
The price freeze should be based on the fact that fans are losing intertest pretty quick and even sending a message by increasing per game price by a few dollars is just asking those people to walk away.

[Pookie]

^ you can't tie ticket prices to performance. It's absurd.

Ticket prices have to be based on the value that you receive relative to its cost.

[Roogsy]

^ you can't tie ticket prices to performance. It's absurd.

Ticket prices have to be based on the value that you receive relative to its cost.


QFT...

[Section 117]

^ you can't tie ticket prices to performance. It's absurd.

Ticket prices have to be based on the value that you receive relative to its cost.

The single most important quote about the price for season tickets, through all of the post about prices

IMO

[H Bomb]

^ This is very true, and i hope the meetings arent filled with people saying "the team is crap, charge me less" Instead i hope its more like, the demand has lessened, the atmosphere created by us has been compromised by security, and other game day changes (Ie streamers, telling us what the score is at half time) and that although the value of the ticket is naturally higher than initial estimates, it isnt what is currently being charges, and what evidence would show you may charge next year.

[Beach_Red]

^ you can't tie ticket prices to performance. It's absurd.

Ticket prices have to be based on the value that you receive relative to its cost.


But you can tie ticket prices to front office performance.

When Anselmi admitted that they they left their GM, "out there on his own too long," he admitted that they didn't invest enough into the infrastructure of the organization.

Now they're going to do what they should have done in the first season, so it's reasonable to demand at the very least a price freeze on tickets until the front office has been properly built.

[Kooper]

^ you can't tie ticket prices to performance. It's absurd.

Ticket prices have to be based on the value that you receive relative to its cost.

Yes you can.

While yes there are costs involved in putting the team on the field that change over time, (inflation, player salaries, increases in rent at BMO...) there is also the basic supply and demand. The team is doing poorly, fans are upset casual fans are not going and scalpers are not renewing. Since there are fewer tickets sold due to the poor performance the scarcity and waiting list is gone. If they want to keep the seats filled then it makes sense that they should be maintaining or reducing ticket prices to encourage fans to go to the game.

I don't believe that the cost to run the team has gone up that much. True JDG, Dero and Mista are not cheap but neither were the Real Madrid tickets or the transfer fee for Edu (granted some went to the MLS).

TFC is making a lot of money and they are raising ticket prices to increase their profit margin. Is it wrong in business? no. Is it smart in this situation? No.

What bugs me most about all of this is how MLSE has mismanaged the situation. They had a great atmosphere with dedicated fans supporting a poor team. After 4 seasons the atmosphere is starting to wane, fans are upset and the team is still poor. This should have been a time to maintain ticket prices and do what they can to keep the fans.

It seems that TFC is more interested in making 2$/game from us this year with a ticket increase rather than fill the stadium and have us drinking beer, buying hot dogs and merch and building loyalty to the team. It seems like a really short sighted business model.

[Pookie]

Now they're going to do what they should have done in the first season, so it's reasonable to demand at the very least a price freeze on tickets until the front office has been properly built.

But who defines "properly" built? Many wanted Brian Burke fired last year. How do you know if it is a good structure?

I'd go down a slightly different road. Freeze ticket prices until the offering is on par with teams that are charging similar amounts for season tickets.

We get what?

- an account rep (as nice as they are, this is expected)
- access to the ticket exchange
- discount on merchandise

In addition to that, as highlighted, Seattle and LA offer:

- free or discounted parking,
- free stadium food and non-alcoholic drinks
- bonus games at no cost (LA's Bonus Games included Chelsea, Rangers, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Boca Juniors, Barcelona, MLS Cup)
- additional tickets for family and friends at discounted rates
- a $50 deposit vs a 20% non-refundable deposit
- exchange privileges for unused tickets
- a referral program (Minimum $100 if you get someone to buy season tickets)

LA and Seattle are priced slightly lower than we are in most areas. In a few sections, they are slightly more expensive than we are.

And the CDN$ is at par with the US$.

Tie my season seat prices with the value established by all clubs in this league... let's not forget that this is a single entity ownership group with revenue sharing as well. There is no reason to gouge one set of fans at the expense of the collective.

[Beach_Red]

But who defines "properly" built? Many wanted Brian Burke fired last year. How do you know if it is a good structure?

I'd go down a slightly different road. Freeze ticket prices until the offering is on par with teams that are charging similar amounts for season tickets.




I let MLSE define it. They're the ones who said they left their inexperienced GM, "out there on his own too long."

It's only partly that they hired an inexperienced guy, the more important part of their admission is that they left him, "out there on his own." And this after they'd done exactky the same thing with the hockey team.

(I would really like to know if other, more experienced GMs turned down the TFC job because they saw it as a disaster waiting to happen).

I'm sure that the first manager of the Real Sports bar was required to have had more than a few months experience managing a bar. MLSE really is asking people to accept that they're starting over with this franchise.

Otherwise I think you're right, the best thing to do is look at what other MLS teams offer an ask for that. At the very least.

[Pachuco]

But who defines "properly" built? Many wanted Brian Burke fired last year. How do you know if it is a good structure?

I'd go down a slightly different road. Freeze ticket prices until the offering is on par with teams that are charging similar amounts for season tickets.

We get what?

- an account rep (as nice as they are, this is expected)
- access to the ticket exchange
- discount on merchandise

In addition to that, as highlighted, Seattle and LA offer:

- free or discounted parking,
- free stadium food and non-alcoholic drinks
- bonus games at no cost (LA's Bonus Games included Chelsea, Rangers, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Boca Juniors, Barcelona, MLS Cup)
- additional tickets for family and friends at discounted rates
- a $50 deposit vs a 20% non-refundable deposit
- exchange privileges for unused tickets
- a referral program (Minimum $100 if you get someone to buy season tickets)

LA and Seattle are priced slightly lower than we are in most areas. In a few sections, they are slightly more expensive than we are.

And the CDN$ is at par with the US$.

Tie my season seat prices with the value established by all clubs in this league... let's not forget that this is a single entity ownership group with revenue sharing as well. There is no reason to gouge one set of fans at the expense of the collective.

I don't agree with this at all. Since when is the same product sold in different markets for the exact same price? Imagine if Columbus was paying the same ticket prices as NY or LA were? Do you think that's fair if you live in columbus? Either Columbus is getting raped or NY is happily paying nothing.

With all due respect, this is a terrible idea that should never happen. You can use two cities to compare prices if you want (taking into account cost of living and supply and demand) but you can't say you are going to charge the same price in all markets for the same product. What's even crazier is that this isn't the same product they sell. It doesn't matter if MLS is a single entity, they still sell different products.

Imagine how FC Dallas would feel if they are paying the same prices as us when they can't pay people to go watch their team.

Or here is another one, should the Jays raise their ticket prices to be on par with the Yankees, specially now that they can't find a bumb on the street to attend a game?

[__wowza]

pachuco, i think he's speaking in the broad sense.
we're paying far greater and being offered far less.

[Pookie]

I don't agree with this at all. Since when is the same product sold in different markets for the exact same price?

Imagine if Columbus was paying the same ticket prices as NY or LA were? Do you think that's fair if you live in columbus? Either Columbus is getting raped or NY is happily paying nothing.

With all due respect, this is a terrible idea that should never happen. You can use two cities to compare prices if you want (taking into account cost of living and supply and demand) but you can't say you are going to charge the same price in all markets for the same product. What's even crazier is that this isn't the same product they sell. It doesn't matter if MLS is a single entity, they still sell different products.

Imagine how FC Dallas would feel if they are paying the same prices as us when they can't pay people to go watch their team.

Or here is another one, should the Jays raise their ticket prices to be on par with the Yankees, specially now that they can't find a bumb on the street to attend a game?

I'm not saying that all markets should pay the exact same. There are individual market variations that reflect the economic realities of each.

However, I am saying that if you are charging me the same price (or higher) as they are charging fans in Seattle or LA then I have a right to ask what they get for their money vs what I get.

Interesting question. What is the product? Is it TFC? TFC sold 1,000 extra season tickets on the day that Beckham signed with the Galaxy. That had nothing to do with TFC and had everything to do with people wanting to see him.

Markets cannot and do not operate independently. Particularly when revenues depend on each other.

[v00d00daddy]

I'm kind of torn here because I don't really feel the pinch of the cost of the tickets....YET. I know, at this rate, I too will be priced out.

If I didn't sit in one of the best seats (relative to cost, sightlines and atmosphere) in the place I would have already not renewed my seats. There's no way I would pay 6-7-800 bucks a seat to watch that soccer.

I want the product to get better. Plain an simple. If this team continues to suck they could charge me year 1 prices and I'll still stop going.

I get that they're gouging us...but I guess I'd be happy to be gouged if the product merits it. I know that makes little sense but I guess I'm way more pissed off about the product on the field (relative to other MLS teams) than I am that it's going to cost me 400 bucks a seat next year.

I'll still be wearing green though because I think the cause is important. Especially for those of you who continue to soldier on while paying an astronomical price for terrible fucking soccer.

[Section 117]

I'm kind of torn here because I don't really feel the pinch of the cost of the tickets....YET. I know, at this rate, I too will be priced out.

If I didn't sit in one of the best seats (relative to cost, sightlines and atmosphere) in the place I would have already not renewed my seats. There's no way I would pay 6-7-800 bucks a seat to watch that soccer.

I want the product to get better. Plain an simple. If this team continues to suck they could charge me year 1 prices and I'll still stop going.

I get that they're gouging us...but I guess I'd be happy to be gouged if the product merits it. I know that makes little sense but I guess I'm way more pissed off about the product on the field (relative to other MLS teams) than I am that it's going to cost me 400 bucks a seat next year.

I'll still be wearing green though because I think the cause is important. Especially for those of you who continue to soldier on while paying an astronomical price for terrible fucking soccer.

This is the first time I think I have ever agreed with you. If the product on the field was above average I would have zero problems

[Parkdale]

This is the first time I think I have ever agreed with you. If the product on the field was above average I would have zero problems

If we were lifting the cup, there would be no complaints at all.



actually wait.... what am I saying? Someone would find a way to complain about that too.

[v00d00daddy]

This is the first time I think I have ever agreed with you. If the product on the field was above average I would have zero problems


hahaha...there's a first time for everything I guess. :)

[J .]

Even if we are winning, why would our seats have to be way above average?

Even if we won the cup, why?

[C.Ronaldo]

value, its all about value

if the product is garbage I feel ripped off if Im paying more.

Do you happily pay more taxes as your city goes to the shit? Or higher condo fees as your condo begins to crumble?

No you complain or you leave. And MLSE will soon see the latter.


you can tie prices to performance, it doesn't have to be a direct relation, but its possible.

[rocker]

Even if we won the cup, why?

Cuz you're beating the rest of the league?

Why don't tickets cost 5 cents per seat?

Value is not inherently logical.

[Blowing Bubbles]

I don't agree with this at all. Since when is the same product sold in different markets for the exact same price? Imagine if Columbus was paying the same ticket prices as NY or LA were? Do you think that's fair if you live in columbus? Either Columbus is getting raped or NY is happily paying nothing.

With all due respect, this is a terrible idea that should never happen. You can use two cities to compare prices if you want (taking into account cost of living and supply and demand) but you can't say you are going to charge the same price in all markets for the same product. What's even crazier is that this isn't the same product they sell. It doesn't matter if MLS is a single entity, they still sell different products.

Imagine how FC Dallas would feel if they are paying the same prices as us when they can't pay people to go watch their team.

Or here is another one, should the Jays raise their ticket prices to be on par with the Yankees, specially now that they can't find a bumb on the street to attend a game?

LA sells just as many tickets as we do, in a bigger and more affluent market with a more historically established franchise.

And yet for the same number of ppl in seats and around the same cost per ticket they are spending more than double what we are on salaries, plus their season seat holders get all the extra perks that were listed.

Why the hell shouldn't we compare ourselves to them? I mean come the fuck on, yes Toronto is a big market with plenty of ppl willing to spend money but it's not any better of a market than LA or Seattle.