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View Full Version : LET'S TALK: stefan frei



__wowza
10-12-2010, 11:24 AM
this is the first in an installment of posts (until i get my blog back up) about what to do with specific players for next season. it's not the traditional "next year roster talk" thread, as it's meant to specifically focus in on the teams wants and needs of a starting 11 player.



so, to start off, i'd like to propose a theory:


:hide: TRADE STEFAN FREI!!


yay! i've always wanted to use that emotocon!!
alright, so i'd like to make a few points as to why i've stated this. call the decision to trade off a TFC player/MLS keeper of the year candidate bullshit, unformed, etc, but i'd like to throw a few things out to justify this.


he's going to greener pastures:
scouts will be on this man within a few seasons (if not already). he's been tested more and twice as fast as the bulk of keepers in the MLS that're more than half his age. it'll only be a matter of timeuntil a big fat request hits the desk of MLSE execs from a higher league. we can either take the money and sink it into a DP, that's gone over great in the past, or trade him for several MLS proven ready-men right now.


his value is huge
he's going to be a star, many teams know this. maybe we don't need the added money from a potential euro offer, but many teams do. frei is going to be a player to build your team around and not too many teams in the MLS have that.


jon conway
the only reason we require a keeper as adept as frei, is due to the fact that our backline shits the bed so frequently. the man who should be our last line of defense is often counted on to be our first line of defense. we sort out our backline, then a man like conway would be able to stand the test, he's done it previously (look at the cruz azul game). make no mistake about it, if frei stays, conway goes. when our contracts get sorted out, i don't see MLSE justifying paying out $75,000 for a backup. especially when frei is no longer paid out under generation adidas.


we're rebuilding
the dreaded toronto sports team "rebuild". if we can all agree on the fact that frei will no longer be part of the team within a few years (ie: a bigger offer will come his way), then we should be able to agree that rebuilding the team with our star keeper in mind is a bad idea. when we reshape our backline, we're going to rely on our keeper as a main method of communication. they're going to need to grow together and learn together. this is something frei is inherently capable of, but wouldn't serve us best in the long term. if we're going for consistency, something our squad has been lacking, i see this panning out.


in closing
- trade frei to another organization for 2/3 MLS proven players
- start jon conway. conway is the new sutton.
- train kocic as a proper backup until he's ready
- bring the backline up with a keeper who'll be around for a few seasons

ExiledRed
10-12-2010, 11:31 AM
This is what MLSE wants. A football club that generates millions and pays its own operational costs by selling players.

If Frei goes for millions, the club will once again start benching veterans in order to train up and comers for future sales. The 'rebuild' will be all about youth, and the coach will be in on the agenda.

DichioTFC
10-12-2010, 11:45 AM
I don't agree. Trading the MVP sets a bad precedent, Frei wants to be here and as naive as it is for me to still believe the human component of sports management, it's just not all about dollars and cents.

I'm strongly opposed. We hold him for as long as we can, then sell him to the highest bidder when he wants to go back to Europe

Detroit_TFC
10-12-2010, 11:46 AM
I would entertain this idea if SF was looking to leave. He has asserted several times recently that he wants to stay. One more season I'd say.

deltox
10-12-2010, 11:56 AM
frei wants to be here?

what makes you say that? im sure he would prefer europe than here......its in europe that he will gain exposure so he can play for his national team.

CretanBull
10-12-2010, 11:57 AM
I agree with you, but I think you're over-estimating his value...I can't see a team giving up 2-3 proven players for him. The MLS is full of quality keepers, demand is pretty low.

swan
10-12-2010, 11:59 AM
what.. no way benefit from his skill for as long as we can we need it and when he wants to make move to europe then it will be time to let him go..

Carts
10-12-2010, 12:03 PM
frei wants to be here?

what makes you say that? im sure he would prefer europe than here......its in europe that he will gain exposure so he can play for his national team.

I think they meant he wants to be here while "at this current level"...

He's said many times he loves Toronto and playing here - but I think we can all agree that if a top or higher grade European League came calling, he would have to go to further his career...

Carts...

Hitcho
10-12-2010, 12:39 PM
Someone posted recently that they spoke to Frei and he seems to be aware that it's too early for him to go to Europe just yet and believes he needs more time to develop before he makes that jump. Which makes sense because for a keeper, he's very young, and it's probably far better for him to get weekly first team action here than sit in the reserves or on the bench for a few years in a better league.

Ultimately I think he'll go, but not yet.

As to the OP, interesting discussion point, but I'd vote no in the strongest possible terms. We should be looking to hang on to our best players, not farm them out for whatever we can get for them. That paints a picture of finishing low down the league, getting a high draft pick, developing the guy into a good player, selling hi, weakening the team, finishing low to get a good draft pick, etc. That's not a good model to work on if you ever want to win anything.

Also trading 2 or 3 established players for Frei isn't as simple as it sounds. You have to fit those players into the cap space and roster restrictions, which means you'd need some side trades to make room for them and would have to be sure those trades would come off. Plus all of these established players would by default have to come from one team, and if the players are any good then who is going to want to give up a big chunk of their first team to a rival side in exchange for just one player, and a keeper not even an outfield player to win you games (rather than save them)?

I think a much better approach is keep Frei as long as possible. Aim high, win trophies, sign an amazing DP for him to play with, give him a reason to stay. if you shoot for the sky you might win something. If you shoot for your own foot then sooner or later you'll hit it.

__wowza
10-12-2010, 12:45 PM
I don't agree. Trading the MVP sets a bad precedent, Frei wants to be here and as naive as it is for me to still believe the human component of sports management, it's just not all about dollars and cents.

I'm strongly opposed. We hold him for as long as we can, then sell him to the highest bidder when he wants to go back to Europe

this again, provides us money, but money isn't this clubs problem. not as long as it's owned by MLSE, never has been.


I think they meant he wants to be here while "at this current level"...

He's said many times he loves Toronto and playing here - but I think we can all agree that if a top or higher grade European League came calling, he would have to go to further his career...

Carts...

unfortunately, i think of this man as an asset as much as i do as an MVP. yes, he's served us well, but within the next few seasons, he won't serve us at all. if the pros of letting him go outweigh the pros of having him stay, then it makes more sense to trade him.

i can't see a valid argument that we should, or would, honour his wishes to stay here until it's convenient for him to make the leap overseas. he would have to further his career as much as we would have to further develop our club.

__wowza
10-12-2010, 01:04 PM
We should be looking to hang on to our best players, not farm them out for whatever we can get for them. That paints a picture of finishing low down the league, getting a high draft pick, developing the guy into a good player, selling hi, weakening the team, finishing low to get a good draft pick, etc. That's not a good model to work on if you ever want to win anything.

hanging on to our best players works under the assumption that they're willing to stay. this isn't the case here, moreso, i believe that he WOULD NOT turn down an offer from a reputable euro club should they make it.


Also trading 2 or 3 established players for Frei isn't as simple as it sounds. You have to fit those players into the cap space and roster restrictions, which means you'd need some side trades to make room for them and would have to be sure those trades would come off.

again, i believe that this will change completely when he is no longer eligible for generation adidas status. when we chew the fat from the team, it might be a different story, but i do believe it will come down to cutting 2/3 of our depth players in order to justify stefan's salary. from then on he'll be fair game, getting the price tag he deserves for his stellar play, be it with us or with another team. he will get first team MLS experience regardless. in addition to this, trading a top flight keeper would make it easily justifiable for a team to part with a steady set of defenders.



my main point is that we know another club will come calling from overseas. we'll either let him go and get a handful of cash in return, along with a slot for our salary cap, but that won't help us in the future run.

we can give him reasons to stay, but that will never override his reason to leave.

prizby
10-12-2010, 01:05 PM
How many teams in the MLS are looking for a keeper would want to trade for one?

NYRB-there keeper has had a good year
Columbus-goltending is not a need, helsner has been fine
Chicago-sean johnson has been a bright spot
KC-neilsen has been great for them
New England-got reis and burpo, they might be the best suitors, but who do u want from them?
Philly-for those who went to the game "seitz seitz seitz seitz...everybody"...there is a reason why they traded perkins
DC united-traded for perkins, got the young guy from their acadamy too
Galaxy-ricketts has been good for them
RSL-rimando, which is why seitz was traded
Fc dallas-maybe them, but they seem to do well with hartman and sala has been no slouch
Sounders-keller, might be old, but they aren't going to get rid of him yet
Earthquajes-busch and cannon have been fine
Rapids-pickens has been fine
Chivas-dan kennedy and zach thorton
Houston-pat onstad is aging, best bet

So from these teams who will want to give up a lot (what we want) for a small upgrade in Frei.

Dallas, playoff bound, doubt it
New England, got 2 ok goalies, but what would they be willing to give up. I would want Nyassi, I doubt he leaves.
That leaves Houston-andre halinut anyone...no thx

Then this leaves portland and vancouver...what will they have that would be attractive...yeah exactly

There is no value on the market that would get us anything Frei is worth

Point is, a lot of teams have a conway equivalent and they will be content with their goalie situation

Menelaos
10-12-2010, 01:11 PM
I woudn't trade him.

He's worth on his own a good 6-8 points to this team with the amount of games he keeps us in. You think this year was bad, nothing compared to how it would be without Frei.

Under no circumstances (well except if we can get Iker Casillas) do we trade this man.

DichioTFC
10-12-2010, 01:12 PM
How many teams in the MLS are looking for a keeper would want to trade for one?

There is no value on the market that would get us anything Frei is worth

Point is, a lot of teams have a conway equivalent and they will be content with their goalie situation

Exactly. I wrote somewhere else earlier today that there is a saturation of keepers in the league. Frei might be in the Top 5 of league keepers, but the Top 15 are all strong in their own right. It would be like upgrading from Garcia to Hscanovics. Sure theres a slight improvement, but why would any team want to?

The value of our strongest asset is diluted in the oversaturated GK market

CretanBull
10-12-2010, 01:26 PM
Exactly. I wrote somewhere else earlier today that there is a saturation of keepers in the league. Frei might be in the Top 5 of league keepers, but the Top 15 are all strong in their own right. It would be like upgrading from Garcia to Hscanovics. Sure theres a slight improvement, but why would any team want to?

The value of our strongest asset is diluted in the oversaturated GK market

I totally agree, and I don't even rate Frei in the top 5 (he's probably 8th-10th or so).

Trading him still might make sense though, simply because we have Conway and a cheap back-up for him in Kocic. If we can get a legitimate starting XI player for Frei then management has to consider trading him...we need help at virtually every position, but have some depth at GK - and if the Conway/Kocic tandum doesn't work out, there's an abundance of quality GKs in the MLS.

__wowza
10-12-2010, 01:37 PM
Exactly. I wrote somewhere else earlier today that there is a saturation of keepers in the league. Frei might be in the Top 5 of league keepers, but the Top 15 are all strong in their own right. It would be like upgrading from Garcia to Hscanovics. Sure theres a slight improvement, but why would any team want to?

The value of our strongest asset is diluted in the oversaturated GK market

i would argue that most teams would trade a current goalkeeper for a BETTER goalkeeper. it's the concept of trading away a robbo to make room for a JDG (but without the shite). you have your constants, and you have your possible upgrades. if there are an abundance of quality GK's in the MLS, then surely we can use a portion of the money we'd pay frei to snatch one of them up. you can part with a defender in lieu of a proven keeper whose purposefully known to dig his squad out of all kinds of shit.

it's the push most teams would look for to send them over the edge and into the playoffs. although i get the point that there is an oversaturated GK market, the fact that the youngest starting keeper closest to frei is five years older than he is needs to be taken into account. not to mention the plethora of teams that would be willing to take over his contract and nurture it until a european club comes to drop a pile of money in their lap.

CretanBull
10-12-2010, 01:42 PM
^ His age doesn't make him more attractive when its generally agreed that he'll be in Europe in a couple of years.

J .
10-12-2010, 01:43 PM
He will be here for another 2 years

Carts
10-12-2010, 01:49 PM
In my mind, the value we'd get in return in a trade, wouldn't be close to the value he is currently to our club...

If it does play out that he is off to Europe in a few years, we'll take the cash and hopefully use it wisely...

While he's here - he'll continue to be one of our most important and impact players. While the staff, and Conway work with the younger Kocic to groom him for active duty...

Carts...

Stouffville_RPB
10-12-2010, 02:40 PM
Oh ya trade Stefan Frei.
He'd bring back more in a transfer fee + playing for us until that time than you could get back in MLS players.

prizby
10-12-2010, 02:40 PM
how much would we even get for Frei...thats another question. I don't know if we could rate him in the same area as Brad Guzan...Guzan got 600,000 pounds (although it would have been more had he been sold 6 months earlier-initially offered was 2 million pounds.)

I think we wouldn't get more than 1.5M CDN for him.

Yohan
10-12-2010, 09:28 PM
there's a lot of what ifs...

-will MLS let Stefan Frei go? MLS will only sell players only when it benefits MLS (see no sale of Shalrie Joseph and Taylor Twellman in recent years)
-allocation money TFC would receive from Frei sale would be tempting (if it's big enough offer)
-how long until Frei's GA contract expires? Frei's salary with compensation is 135k. While that's a good salary for a starting MLS keeper, what if Frei wants more to extend his contract? With plenty of serviceable MLS keepers available, is he worth keeping at say, 250k per year?

CretanBull
10-12-2010, 09:32 PM
I think its assumed that his GA status ends this season, its generally conceeded that the league did us a favour by allowing him to remain GA last season (had they ruled otherwise, we would have been over the cap at the time). $250k? Not a chance, if he wants that he's welcome to find it somewhere else. I'd expect him to make around what he makes now, or a modest raise - $150k. He has absolutely no leverage to ask for/expect anything more than that.

prizby
10-12-2010, 09:56 PM
I think its assumed that his GA status ends this season, its generally conceeded that the league did us a favour by allowing him to remain GA last season (had they ruled otherwise, we would have been over the cap at the time). $250k? Not a chance, if he wants that he's welcome to find it somewhere else. I'd expect him to make around what he makes now, or a modest raise - $150k. He has absolutely no leverage to ask for/expect anything more than that.

Darlo Sala base salary is $160,000, you going to tell me Frei should get less than that?

Is Troy Perkins worth $50,000 more than Frei?

Pat Onstad is $164,000 base salary, Frei should get less?

how about Matt Reis - $182,011, Frei should get less? Joe Cannon at $190,000?

you are going tell me Stefan Frei should only get 50% of Kasey Keller's salary...c'mon be real