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denime
10-04-2010, 05:12 AM
Mornin'



Dasovic Challenges TFC Players (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/10/dasovic-challenges-tfc-players)


TFC: Going, going, gone (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-going-going-gone/article1740358/)


MLS DP Dissection: The Problem In Toronto (http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2010/10/04/2149702/mls-dp-dissection-the-problem-in-toronto)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

denime
10-04-2010, 05:14 AM
MLS DP Dissection: The Problem In Toronto (http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2010/10/04/2149702/mls-dp-dissection-the-problem-in-toronto)



Who will this be? It’s impossible to predict, but the player must be of the quality of the league’s other DP forwards, a pleasure the Red Patch Boys surely deserve.

Wagner
10-04-2010, 05:48 AM
From Today's Paul James article:


Some have suggested Jurgen Klinsmann as a possible leader. Others have recommended a complete overhaul in order to start again. This is incredible news to start my day with.

Let's get Anselmi on the phone...we'll take Jurgen up to Oktoberfest...show him the strong Kraut Community...

Super
10-04-2010, 06:41 AM
From Today's Paul James article:

This is incredible news to start my day with.

Let's get Anselmi on the phone...we'll take Jurgen up to Oktoberfest...show him the strong Kraut Community...

Fuck yeah! He's my all-time favourite player. I'd love him as our coach.

zamperina
10-04-2010, 06:52 AM
Can't see Klinsman taking the job when he turned down the USNMT...

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 06:58 AM
I have no idea if he'd be interested in the job either, but I wouldn't view him not wanting the USMNT position as an indication that he wouldn't want the TFC job.

Hooligan69
10-04-2010, 07:17 AM
Bah! With TFC shot to hell and MLB playoffs not yet underway, I can't stand the Toronto Sun's sports section anymore. 99% CFL/NFL/NHL coverage. *cringe*

Oldtimer
10-04-2010, 07:46 AM
I have no idea if he'd be interested in the job either, but I wouldn't view him not wanting the USMNT position as an indication that he wouldn't want the TFC job.

He was interested, it was revealed that he interviewed for the position, they just couldn't come to terms, so Bob Bradley had his contract renewed (the USSF's second choice).

If Klinsmann was willing to take the job, it would be fantastic. Even if Klinsmann won't come, they should look at other Bundesliga background coaches.

I've felt that a Bundesliga coach would be ideal for any MLS club. Firstly, you have the experience and contacts that comes from having been in a higher league (which would apply to a manager from any top Euro league).

Secondly, the Bundesliga is the European league the most like MLS in many ways. (1) spending restrictions mean that Bundesliga teams always have to look for value in their players. (2) they are often losing top players to the EPL/la Liga/Serie A, so that is something that they are experienced with. (3) They also play a style that is neither straight attacking (like England) or straight defense (Italy's traditional style -- yes I know that the larger Italian clubs have moved away from straight defense). Rather, they take both offense and defense into account, making for a strong, yet entertaining style of football.

The Bundesliga once had detailed roster restrictions similar to MLS. As the league and football's popularity rose in Germany, they did away with many of the excessive restrictions (which is where MLS will be in the future). They kept reasonable restraint on spending (German teams cannot rack up huge debts).

Another excellent choice would be Freiburg's current coach, Robin Dutt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Dutt

He won them promotion recently, and knows how to get value on a modest salary budget.

Oldtimer
10-04-2010, 07:53 AM
Question? Twenty-two players on the pitch. How many TFC players would compete for a starting spot on Seattle’s team based on this particular game?

Good question, indeed.

Chevy
10-04-2010, 08:05 AM
My opinion - Frei gets the nod over Keller, and likely Nana finds a spot on their back four. That's it.

They don't need any of our mids or strikers.

scooter
10-04-2010, 08:16 AM
mornin d

ACSertL
10-04-2010, 08:21 AM
He was interested, it was revealed that he interviewed for the position, they just couldn't come to terms, so Bob Bradley had his contract renewed (the USSF's second choice).

If Klinsmann was willing to take the job, it would be fantastic. Even if Klinsmann won't come, they should look at other Bundesliga background coaches.

I've felt that a Bundesliga coach would be ideal for any MLS club. Firstly, you have the experience and contacts that comes from having been in a higher league (which would apply to a manager from any top Euro league).

Secondly, the Bundesliga is the European league the most like MLS in many ways. (1) spending restrictions mean that Bundesliga teams always have to look for value in their players. (2) they are often losing top players to the EPL/la Liga/Serie A, so that is something that they are experienced with. (3) They also play a style that is neither straight attacking (like England) or straight defense (Italy's traditional style -- yes I know that the larger Italian clubs have moved away from straight defense). Rather, they take both offense and defense into account, making for a strong, yet entertaining style of football.

The Bundesliga once had detailed roster restrictions similar to MLS. As the league and football's popularity rose in Germany, they did away with many of the excessive restrictions (which is where MLS will be in the future). They kept reasonable restraint on spending (German teams cannot rack up huge debts).

Another excellent choice would be Freiburg's current coach, Robin Dutt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Dutt

He won them promotion recently, and knows how to get value on a modest salary budget.

Quality post.

If I were able to personally hand pick a German manager for TFC it would be Matthias Sammer, but he's signed a 5 year deal to be the technical director for the DFB. Mainz's Thomas Tuchel wouldn't be a bad choice either :)

Parkdale
10-04-2010, 08:22 AM
perhaps there's a 'future GM thread' that could benefit from the in depth discussion we're seeing in here?

Certainly it's going to be THE big topic of the off-season.

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 08:33 AM
I'd have no problem with a German coach, or any coach with a background in the Bundesliga but I think they'd get frustrated in the MLS with all of the negative tactics, dirty/late tackles and other types of fouls meant to intimidate players and slow the game down. I think the Bundesliga would be an incredible league for the MLS to model itself after, but I think even in terms of basic style its well above our heads right now.

As long as the bulk of this league's players are supplied by the NCAA system and not from academies, the majority of the players are going to be tactically disadvantaged and behind in their developement. You can't wait for a player to be college age before he gets exposed to proper coaching, training etc. A 16 year old kid in Germany has a better understanding of the game than a 20 year old in America does. Theres no reason to think that America/Canada can't develope players the way other countries do, we just don't have a system in place for it yet.

I think style wise, the MLS is actually similar to the Ukrainian league. They're faced with tight budgets and other restrictions as well, and the on the pitch product is similar in that its tough, physical, chippy, dirty etc.

An off-topic yet related point, the league has to do away with the DP rule and replace it with a higher salary cap if it wants to improve. The league is driven by an obession with parity and restraint but the DP rule allows teams to spend unlimited sums of money on select players. You can't put 3 super-stars on a team with 8 other NCAA trained players and expect an attractive product. You'd be much better off with a balanced team made up of well paid players.

Chevy
10-04-2010, 08:42 AM
perhaps there's a 'future GM thread' that could benefit from the in depth discussion we're seeing in here?

Certainly it's going to be THE big topic of the off-season.

Let's hope that it's not a topic for the ENTIRE off-season.

ACSertL
10-04-2010, 08:43 AM
I'd have no problem with a German coach, or any coach with a background in the Bundesliga but I think they'd get frustrated in the MLS with all of the negative tactics, dirty/late tackles and other types of fouls meant to intimidate players and slow the game down. I think the Bundesliga would be an incredible league for the MLS to model itself after, but I think even in terms of basic style its well above our heads right now.

As long as the bulk of this league's players are supplied by the NCAA system and not from academies, the majority of the players are going to be tactically disadvantaged and behind in their developement. You can't wait for a player to be college age before he gets exposed to proper coaching, training etc. A 16 year old kid in Germany has a better understanding of the game than a 20 year old in America does. Theres no reason to think that America/Canada can't develope players the way other countries do, we just don't have a system in place for it yet.

I think style wise, the MLS is actually similar to the Ukranian league. They're faced with tight budgets and other restrictions as well, and the on the pitch product is similar in that its tough, physical, chippy, dirty etc.

An off-topic yet related point, the league has to do away with the DP rule and replace it with a higher salary cap if it wants to improve. The league is driven by an obession with parity and restraint but the DP rule allows teams to spend unlimited sums of money on select players. You can't put 3 super-stars on a team with 8 other NCAA trained players and expect an attractive product. You'd be much better off with a balanced team made up of well paid players.

My boss, who is quite knowledgeable on the topic of Football and watched MLS before TFC was around, and I have had numerous conversations about the part I've bolded. Our thoughts on it are that the league should do away with the DP rule and increase the salary cap (as CretanBull has also mentioned).

In addition clubs/owners that want to spend money on an academy should be able to spend as much as they'd like on it. The league doesn't have to mandate academies; if Columbus doesn't want to spend cash on developing players via an academy system and prefers to use the NCAA draft as their only source of new talent, so be it.

Finally, up to 4 players signed from the academy per year should be exempt from the salary cap until they reach the age of 23 (an arbitrary age). That way more money can be invested in players of better calibre and thereby raising the average level of talent on each team.

Perhaps an ambitious idea and one that seems to fly in the face of the league mandated "parity", but as supporters of Football we thought this was an interesting way to raise the profile of the game in North America and develop domestic talent.

Suds
10-04-2010, 08:49 AM
My boss, who is quite knowledgeable on the topic of Football and watched MLS before TFC was around, and I have had numerous conversations about the part I've bolded. Our thoughts on it are that the league should do away with the DP rule and increase the salary cap (as CretanBull has also mentioned).

In addition clubs/owners that want to spend money on an academy should be able to spend as much as they'd like on it. The league doesn't have to mandate academies; if Columbus doesn't want to spend cash on developing players via an academy system and prefers to use the NCAA draft as their only source of new talent, so be it.

Finally, up to 4 players signed from the academy per year should be exempt from the salary cap until they reach the age of 23 (an arbitrary age). That way more money can be invested in players of better calibre and thereby raising the average level of talent on each team.

Perhaps an ambitious idea and one that seems to fly in the face of the league mandated "parity", but as supporters of Football we thought this was an interesting way to raise the profile of the game in North America and develop domestic talent.


Really like the idea of exempting all or part of an academy developed player's salary from the cap until a certain age. This would provide teams an additional incentive to start/continue investment in the academy programs.

ACSertL
10-04-2010, 08:51 AM
Really like the idea of exempting all or part of an academy developed player's salary from the cap until a certain age. This would provide teams an additional incentive to start/continue investment in the academy programs.

Well we figured that since MLS has the Generation Adidas players, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to include up to 4 academy players as well. :)

Technorgasm
10-04-2010, 09:02 AM
Bah! With TFC shot to hell and MLB playoffs not yet underway, I can't stand the Toronto Sun's sports section anymore. 99% CFL/NFL/NHL coverage. *cringe*

A-MEN brother!!
Toronto Sport pages are dead to me. . . .

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 09:07 AM
as much as i love Klinsmann, i dont see it happening.
i guess he does have knowledge of the US players so it wouldnt be that bad a decision...

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 09:09 AM
I oddly do believe that Klinsmann could turn this team around given free reign

GingerNinja
10-04-2010, 09:25 AM
I agree if had total control he could do miraculous things. That is what went wrong with the usmt, they didn't feel comfortable giving anyone complete control.

The problem is though, I think he'd want to be GM and coach. And Anselmi said in the presser that he wanted to follow the NA style of having 2 seperate positions.



I oddly do believe that Klinsmann could turn this team around given free reign

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 09:36 AM
Oddly enough id be ok giving him both positions, i have no doubt he'd pull together some solid coaches to work under him

BS1327
10-04-2010, 09:36 AM
Klinsmann would almost be like a "Designated Coach" as former German manager, and at Bayern. I think he could help add to the attendence figures in a way.
I wonder if it was him hired how he could influence a German DP, such as a Ballack, or Miro Klose (Bayern's wasting his talent on the bench)

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 09:54 AM
serves Miro right for leaving us

ACSertL
10-04-2010, 09:56 AM
Klose has played in every league game apart from yesterday's loss to Dortmund, so I am not sure how he's exactly wasting on the bench. He's also expressed great interest in signing with Kaiserslautern as a sort of "farewell tour" after his contract is up at the end of the season. I would be shocked if he arrived in North America regardless of whether or not TFC signed Klinsmann or any other German manager as a GM.

pekduck
10-04-2010, 10:05 AM
From Today's Paul James article:

This is incredible news to start my day with.

Let's get Anselmi on the phone...we'll take Jurgen up to Oktoberfest...show him the strong Kraut Community...

Now I finally get an excuse to put Klinsmann on my TFC jersey :flare:

One can dream :)

werewolf
10-04-2010, 10:08 AM
Klinsmann with complete control over the entire technical staff would turn this club into what it should be. As much of a hinderance as the salary cap is to clubs with strong financial backing, there isn't a salary cap on coaches :)

Oldtimer
10-04-2010, 10:24 AM
I wonder if it was him hired how he could influence a German DP, such as a Ballack, or Miro Klose (Bayern's wasting his talent on the bench)

That would be a great "value added" that he couldn't give the USMNT. Miro would give us a great strike option.

Super
10-04-2010, 10:28 AM
Klinsmann with complete control over the entire technical staff would turn this club into what it should be. As much of a hinderance as the salary cap is to clubs with strong financial backing, there isn't a salary cap on coaches :)

No doubt it would be the right move to make for MLSE at this point in time, but I have little faith in MLSE when it comes to "doing the right thing". I'm sure they'll find some cheap solution somewhere that'll blow up in their faces as usual.

pekduck
10-04-2010, 10:33 AM
That would be a great "value added" that he couldn't give the USMNT. Miro would give us a great strike option.

This is too much of a great expectation that's sending me over the moon!

Klinsmann and Klose, man... I need to stay away from this thread!

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 10:43 AM
No doubt it would be the right move to make for MLSE at this point in time, but I have little faith in MLSE when it comes to "doing the right thing". I'm sure they'll find some cheap solution somewhere that'll blow up in their faces as usual.

My head agrees with you 10000000000000000000000%, but my gut says that MLSE realize how pissed off people are, how bad the situation really is and how they're on the verge of losing a good thing.

If they want to charge the prices that they seem to want to and win back some good will this off season, I expect them to make a big splash in hiring a new coach and our first 'big name' DP. Anything less and the apathy thats out there now will continue to grow...

darb
10-04-2010, 10:45 AM
From Today's Paul James article:

This is incredible news to start my day with.

Let's get Anselmi on the phone...we'll take Jurgen up to Oktoberfest...show him the strong Kraut Community...

What the heck? Are we forgetting that this is not news in any way? "Some have suggested..." means the fans have suggested. Fact: there is absolutely no way/shape/form that TFC could attract a football icon and manager like Klinsmann at this point in time. If the USMNT couldn't agree to terms with him, how the hell is a corporation like TFC/MLSE going to? As for Germans, I'd take Osieck to manage our team, but I know we couldn't attract him either :(

zamperina
10-04-2010, 10:54 AM
What the heck? Are we forgetting that this is not news in any way? "Some have suggested..." means the fans have suggested. Fact: there is absolutely no way/shape/form that TFC could attract a football icon and manager like Klinsmann at this point in time. If the USMNT couldn't agree to terms with him, how the hell is a corporation like TFC/MLSE going to? As for Germans, I'd take Osieck to manage our team, but I know we couldn't attract him either :(

Osieck is Managing the Aussie's Nat Team so strike another one off the list.

Red Baron
10-04-2010, 11:07 AM
is this on mls rumours yet?

werewolf
10-04-2010, 11:17 AM
11 days until renewal, we still have a few rumours of big names coming here. I am guessing in about 2 weeks, "talks will break down" or the rumours will just flat out stop.

:rolleyes:

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 11:48 AM
No doubt it would be the right move to make for MLSE at this point in time, but I have little faith in MLSE when it comes to "doing the right thing". I'm sure they'll find some cheap solution somewhere that'll blow up in their faces as usual.

youre wrong, theyre never cheap, just terribly misguided and misinformed.
never cheap tho

reggie
10-04-2010, 11:58 AM
i agree..they are not cheap just stupid,im worried about the guy(anselmi) who is going to hire the new guy, he hired mo and put us 4 yrs in the hole.

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 12:19 PM
youre wrong, theyre never cheap, just terribly misguided and misinformed.
never cheap tho

Never cheap? How much did they spend the stadium? How much did they invest in a front office staff? How much did they spend on scouting? How long did they make money hand over fist before spending on a DP?

pekduck
10-04-2010, 12:21 PM
Never cheap? How much did they spend the stadium? How much did they invest in a front office staff? How much did they spend on scouting? How long did they make money hand over fist before spending on a DP?

and that's a sustainable business plan executed well...

They did spend, was not cheap, but only spend after the bottom line is ensured.

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 12:28 PM
I see what you're saying, but the the bottom line was secured a long time ago and they still haven't invested in some of the things that I mentioned. In a league with strict rules regarding the salary cap and other expenses teams can gain an edge by spending in other areas...we haven't done that.

Compare that to what Seatle has done and what Vancouver is doing...

pekduck
10-04-2010, 12:32 PM
I see what you're saying, but the the bottom line was secured a long time ago and they still haven't invested in some of the things that I mentioned. In a league with strict rules regarding the salary cap and other expenses teams can gain an edge by spending in other areas...we haven't done that.

Compare that to what Seatle has done and what Vancouver is doing...

Blame OTPP for that, they needed the dividends to throw into the bottomless pit of billions of dollars of shortfall.

Seattle and Vancouver are actual sporting franchise ran by sporting franchise. We have a black hole running ours.

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 12:38 PM
^ I know, it just sucks to be us :(

Beach_Red
10-04-2010, 01:18 PM
Never cheap? How much did they spend the stadium? How much did they invest in a front office staff? How much did they spend on scouting? How long did they make money hand over fist before spending on a DP?


You're right, you have to look a little deeper. They paid the GM-coach the first year a normal MLS salary for that positon. Vancouver have three people doing that job, all of them with far more experience.

And yes, first they made a lot of money (ticket sales and the Edu deal) before they spent on a DP.

Maybe people would prefer "fiscally responsible" to cheap.

The strangest thing about the Teachers is that they are okay with fewer profits than they would be getting from playoff teams. I guess it's good they're not so greedy, but in this case it works against us (and they do squeeze as much profits as they can from other businesses they invest in, outsourcing and busting unions as much as they can - it's a tough organization to get a read on).

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Thats not to mention how much of a gamble this team was going to be. They could have had 2000 show up instead of 18k or whatever it was and it could have gone down the toilet shortly after that.

They are currently looking at investing up to 30 million (or something to athat amount as per Paul beirne) into the academy, that doesnt sound cheap to me.
Theyve splashed out on 2 DPs, once again doesnt sound cheap, nor does the expansion in teh back end or the grass.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 01:26 PM
Vancouver have the advantage of already being a stable organization in an ever growing league.

Roogsy
10-04-2010, 01:30 PM
Vancouver have the advantage of already being a stable organization in an ever growing league.

I have this horrible feeling in my gut Vancouver is going to do better than us next year despite it being their first year in the league and our 5th. And we will know exactly who to blame:

http://www.sharepointhq.com/our-work/ClientLogos/maple_leaf_sports.jpg

Beach_Red
10-04-2010, 01:38 PM
Thats not to mention how much of a gamble this team was going to be. They could have had 2000 show up instead of 18k or whatever it was and it could have gone down the toilet shortly after that.

They are currently looking at investing up to 30 million (or something to athat amount as per Paul beirne) into the academy, that doesnt sound cheap to me.
Theyve splashed out on 2 DPs, once again doesnt sound cheap, nor does the expansion in teh back end or the grass.


To your first point - sure it could have. But it didn't. And they didn;t change any strategies. They knew before a single game was played that it wasn't going to be a bust and didn;t start reinvesting then.

So, as to your second point - now that we've given them the 30 million, sure they can start spending it.

It's not that they're "cheap" it's just that they don't invest. Sure, it's good business, they collect the money first and then spend it. We should all be so lucky.

It works fine either for something that has a huge, established base like the Leafs or in the short term for something like TFC.

But it will fail in the long-term because the team won't do as well as ones that invest up front - like Vancouver, Seattle, even New York spent big in the hopes they'd sell more tickets to their new stadium.

When ticket sales drop for TFC they won't spend big to try and get people back into the stadium, they'll just say there isn't a big enough market for soccer in Toronto and run a low-budget team for the 6,000 diehards that are just desperate to see soccer live. MLS have plenty of teams like that.

Waggy
10-04-2010, 01:47 PM
My head agrees with you 10000000000000000000000%, but my gut says that MLSE realize how pissed off people are, how bad the situation really is and how they're on the verge of losing a good thing.

If they want to charge the prices that they seem to want to and win back some good will this off season, I expect them to make a big splash in hiring a new coach and our first 'big name' DP. Anything less and the apathy thats out there now will continue to grow...

If they don't hire a competent coach/manager, I'm out. I've supported enough poorly run teams, if they're going to dick around for another 3-4 years on top of it. If that happens, I'm out until they are properly managed










*Note, I say that, and I intend to do it. I just put the likelihood of that ACTUALLY happening at like 5%. God damn it

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Thats not to mention how much of a gamble this team was going to be. They could have had 2000 show up instead of 18k or whatever it was and it could have gone down the toilet shortly after that.

They are currently looking at investing up to 30 million (or something to athat amount as per Paul beirne) into the academy, that doesnt sound cheap to me.
Theyve splashed out on 2 DPs, once again doesnt sound cheap, nor does the expansion in teh back end or the grass.

There wasn't much of a gamble - they mitigated as much of the costs as possible to the municipal, provincial and federal governments. The 'gamble' that they took was much less than what most others take in starting a new business.

No one has said that they haven't spent any money, it's just been pointed out how and when they've spent. For example, we had three years of injuries, player complaints and being unable to sign certain players because of the turf - it was obvious that we needed grass after year one but it was put off until well after the Edu sale. You might call that being "fiscially responsible" - others might call it being cheap. Like wise, they "splashed out" on 2 DPs...after needed them for 3 & 4 years (and pro-rated, Mista's contract isn't much more that a high-end MLS contract)...compare that to Seatle who entered their first game with a DP - who at the time was probably second only to Beckham in stature.

And to be clear I haven't called them cheap, I've just responded to the notion that they're never cheap which is demonstratably false.

ManUtd4ever
10-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'm confident that MLSE will spare no expense in hiring the next General Manager and providing that individual all of the necessary financial resources to build a competent front office and assemble a quality team on the pitch.

The issue with MLSE with respect to all of their franchises has never been an unwillingness to invest in their clubs, but whether or not the money was spent wisely...

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 02:02 PM
The issue with MLSE with respect to all of their franchises has never been an unwillingness to invest in their clubs, but whether or not the money was spent wisely...

Then why wasn't Wayne Gretzky a Maple Leaf?

Carts
10-04-2010, 02:04 PM
Then why wasn't Wayne Gretzky a Maple Leaf?

Blame Ballard... I'll never forget that quote about not being able to sell more tickets... LOL

Carts...

Pyeddo
10-04-2010, 02:10 PM
I love how utterly fucking amateur Toronto FC are.... they cut and paste this article from another site and forgot to delete the "Get Microsoft Silverlight" advertisement from the original. What a joke, even the simple, small details are missed.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/10/dasovic-challenges-tfc-players


“If you don't want to be here and fight, then you can make your way out,” Dasovic said after the game. “No problem. We'll let you go and pursue other ventures. But if you want to be here, I only want guys who are going to fight for the football club."
Get Microsoft Silverlight

The game actually started well for TFC, with Dwayne De Rosario opening the scoring in the 16th minute. It was his 13th of the season. But almost on cue, TFC gave up the lead right away and allowed two more goals on the way to losing 3-2 to the Seattle Sounders, the second straight game they’ve been on the losing end of that scoreline.

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 02:14 PM
^ The problem is that Ballard's way of thinking made its way into MLSE too...before signing with the Rangers Gretzky thought he had a deal with the Leafs, until they backed out.

Carts
10-04-2010, 02:18 PM
^ The problem is that Ballard's way of thinking made its way into MLSE too...before signing with the Rangers Gretzky thought he had a deal with the Leafs, until they backed out.

I know, that was where the famous Ballard quote came from...

But you can't blame MLSE for Harold Ballard not agreeing to sign Wayne Gretzky...

Yes, they think the same, but lets not start blaming MLSE for everything - next thing global warming and terrorism will become their fault ;) LOL

ManUtd4ever
10-04-2010, 02:20 PM
Then why wasn't Wayne Gretzky a Maple Leaf?

That debacle was during Stavro's era. Fletcher requested approval to sign Gretzky from Stavro and was unfortunately turned down.

I'm not defending MLSE's public relations strategies by any means, I'm merely pointing out that there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they would be averse to investing substantial financial resources towards the future front office of TFC. In fact, Brian Burke and Bryan Colangelo are among the highest paid executives in the NHL and the NBA. Again, it is only a question of whether or not the money will be spent wisely...

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 02:35 PM
I have this horrible feeling in my gut Vancouver is going to do better than us next year despite it being their first year in the league and our 5th. And we will know exactly who to blame:

http://www.sharepointhq.com/our-work/ClientLogos/maple_leaf_sports.jpg

yep, hate to agree but youre right

Ossington Mental Youth
10-04-2010, 02:42 PM
To your first point - sure it could have. But it didn't. And they didn;t change any strategies. They knew before a single game was played that it wasn't going to be a bust and didn;t start reinvesting then.

So, as to your second point - now that we've given them the 30 million, sure they can start spending it.

It's not that they're "cheap" it's just that they don't invest. Sure, it's good business, they collect the money first and then spend it. We should all be so lucky.

It works fine either for something that has a huge, established base like the Leafs or in the short term for something like TFC.

But it will fail in the long-term because the team won't do as well as ones that invest up front - like Vancouver, Seattle, even New York spent big in the hopes they'd sell more tickets to their new stadium.

When ticket sales drop for TFC they won't spend big to try and get people back into the stadium, they'll just say there isn't a big enough market for soccer in Toronto and run a low-budget team for the 6,000 diehards that are just desperate to see soccer live. MLS have plenty of teams like that.

alot of assumptions here.
Im not an MLSE apologist, theyve done us and TFC alot of wrong here but i dont think people are picking the right points.

I do agree somewhat with the collect and spend point, that just makes sense, as much as we'd love to see a free spending corporation running our team, thats not the case and its not likely to happen anytime soon.

I dont think theres anything saying that NY or VAN will succeed in the stands because they are spending up front.

Have we seen a jump in NY ticket sales yet? are they playing in front of a full house?

We have yet to see how well VAN will do.

As for seattle its a different animal all together.

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 02:53 PM
That debacle was during Stavro's era. Fletcher requested approval to sign Gretzky from Stavro and was unfortunately turned down.

You're right, but its basically the same company with a new name. Some of the investors have changed, but that's about it.



...I'm merely pointing out that there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they would be averse to investing substantial financial resources towards the future front office of TFC.

What do you mean there's no evidence? We've all just lived through four years of evidence. They got Mo on the cheap - he was still under contract with the league when NYRB let him go - and spent no further money filling out the front office with soccer-minded people.



In fact, Brian Burke and Bryan Colangelo are among the highest paid executives in the NHL and the NBA. Again, it is only a question of whether or not the money will be spent wisely...

Burke and Coloangelo were both hired as big-name fixes after each of those franchises were driven into the ground. Given that Mo has just done the same to TFC this pattern gives me reason to think that we'll now see a big-name manager in charge of TFC. But let's see this for what it is, it's not investing money in a quality manager to run the team - if they had done that we wouldn't be in this position. They're spending money on salvaging the team - that's not investment, that's a panicked reaction....and that's what their history shows, not wisely investing in quality, but rather spending money when they have no other option not to.

Beach_Red
10-04-2010, 03:11 PM
That debacle was during Stavro's era. Fletcher requested approval to sign Gretzky from Stavro and was unfortunately turned down.

I'm not defending MLSE's public relations strategies by any means, I'm merely pointing out that there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that they would be averse to investing substantial financial resources towards the future front office of TFC. In fact, Brian Burke and Bryan Colangelo are among the highest paid executives in the NHL and the NBA. Again, it is only a question of whether or not the money will be spent wisely...

You're right, once the money is in the bank they'll spend some of it. In fact, they even did it with the Leafs - JF Jr., was pretty cheap. The first thing Burke did (after signing his own twenty million dollar contract - how much more than JF Jr., is that?) was spend big on the front office, scouting and hire another GM in Nonis (who can't be cheap).

So maybe they'll do the same thing with TFC.

But if renewals are low then they won't. You're right, it's speculation but I'm basing it on past experience.

Chevy
10-04-2010, 03:14 PM
I'm sure Nonis comes in at at least $1m, maybe close to $2m.

jloome
10-04-2010, 06:03 PM
Quality post.

If I were able to personally hand pick a German manager for TFC it would be Matthias Sammer, but he's signed a 5 year deal to be the technical director for the DFB. Mainz's Thomas Tuchel wouldn't be a bad choice either :)

Sammer's deal ends next year, so it would be relatively easy to work around. It's also a system development job, not one that would require him to be there necessarily.

I think Sammer would be an excellent choice (both he and Klinsmann are on my rapidly growing "if I run TFC and had their budget what would I do with it" list of shit I haven't written about yet.)

ensco
10-04-2010, 06:35 PM
Klinsy would be a mistake. He's not right for Toronto (he loves California) or MLS.

Anyone who coached Bayern two years ago will have trouble coping with in a league with a cap, or flying commercial and changing planes. He'd be here for the paycheque only.

ArmenJBX
10-04-2010, 06:48 PM
http://www.presslancer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/dunga_dismmised1.jpg

BELIEVE!

CretanBull
10-04-2010, 07:18 PM
Dunga would be amazing.

Alixir
10-04-2010, 07:21 PM
Let's hope that it's not a topic for the ENTIRE off-season.oh it will be...it will be.

Beach_Red
10-04-2010, 07:22 PM
Klinsy would be a mistake. He's not right for Toronto (he loves California) or MLS.

Anyone who coached Bayern two years ago will have trouble coping with in a league with a cap, or flying commercial and changing planes. He'd be here for the paycheque only.

What other reason is there to be here? ;)

ArmenJBX
10-04-2010, 07:38 PM
What other reason is there to be here? ;)

Perhaps Gravy Boats?

ACSertL
10-05-2010, 08:49 AM
Sammer's deal ends next year, so it would be relatively easy to work around. It's also a system development job, not one that would require him to be there necessarily.

I think Sammer would be an excellent choice (both he and Klinsmann are on my rapidly growing "if I run TFC and had their budget what would I do with it" list of shit I haven't written about yet.)

You're right! :)

If it pleases everyone, I'll get on the first plane to Frankfurt to plead our case!