Today's News,Wednesday,Sep.29

[denime]

Mornin'


Toronto FC reaches crisis stage (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/28/sp-torontofc-saltlake-concacaf.html)


Tie ends TFC’s Champions League hopes (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/867713--tie-ends-tfc-s-champions-league-hopes)


TFC eliminated from Champions League (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/09/28/tfc_saltlake/)


Shine is off TFC (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2010/09/28/15513626.html)


Toronto Crashes Out Of CCL (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/09/toronto-crashes-out-ccl)


TFC's CONCACAF hopes are over (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2010/09/28/15513066.html)


DeRo has to go (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/dero-has-to-go/article1730821/)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

[Wagner]

Can't say that I agree with Paul James.
DeRo is half the reason I come to games.
It's exciting when he has the ball, or is setting up for a free kick.
The Guy is a stud and a winner, and if he had a supporting cast we'd be kicking ass.
He is a Thoroughbred on a team of mostly mules.

(roogs is going to agree with me in 3....2....1....)

[King Jeff]

Attendance at BMO Field was announced as 10,581, but there couldn't have been more than 5,000 seats occupied at kickoff,



Yikes.

[KRO]

Removing DeRo and a number of others is the only way forward for this team. Paul James is bang on.

[ArmenJBX]

Paul James is off on this one. De Rosario for Johnson is a bad deal on our end.

[Stouffville_RPB]

Attendance at BMO Field was announced as 10,581, but there couldn't have been more than 5,000 seats occupied at kickoff,


Yikes.


Message sent.

[Carts]

Mornin'

DeRo has to go (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/dero-has-to-go/article1730821/)


I think someone is worried their column isn't getting enough readers...

Easy way to do it, say something that'll light a fire under basically everyone...

Honestly, there are some Toronto writers will write anything to get people to read...

If the Leafs had Sidney Crosby & Alex Ovechkin - 10-games into the season, with a 9-0-1 record some writer who doesn't have enough blog hits or facebook comments would write "...Crosby-Ovechkin Not Good Enough - Move'em Burkie..."

DID HE WATCH WILL JOHNSON LAST NIGHT...??? He was terrible...

Like I said, this is not about agreeing with him or not, he's writing this for hits and readers...

If he's watched this season with any interest, this article is clearly a pathetic attempt at attention...

Carts...

[scooter]

mornin d

dont think dero needs to go he has the most passion on the team so of course is outspoken he just needs a coach he can respect

but mista and guz got to go we need dp's who can make a difference

i cannot believe with a million bucks on the table we cant sign a stiker who can score

last thought - the rest of the team needs to stick together because half of our teams problem is the revolving player door and looking for quick fixes due to pressure from mlse to perform we need to build

[CoachGT]

One thing I like about Will Johnson is his desire to compete. He was absolutely pissed at getting taken off! He should have been taken off, but damn, was he angry! He threw a water bottle. Sat at the far end of the bench, and the RSL equipment guy knew enough to stay away from him!

[CretanBull]

James' opinions are hit and miss IMO, but you're right Carts - they're always written in a way that's meant to be controversial etc. to generate interest. He's a smart guy who knows his stuff, he should focus on that an not the sensationalism.

[Mikey]

Get rid of Dero and keep "the wrong DeGuzman"....? these sports blogs are like assholes in more ways than one. Everyone has one and they can stink....

[Oldtimer]

If the team loses DeRo, fans will be even more upset than they already were.

Terrible soccer, ticket price increases have already been a massive hit.

Add in losing your marquee player, and people are left with a hopeless mess.

Anselmi made a serious mistake in keeping on MoJo for another season, when just about everyone outside of the ML$E boardroom could see he was incompetent by the end of year 3.

A second serious mistake was thinking that fans would pay endlessly increasing amounts to see crap play. Soccer is not "Leafs Nation." People have the Premier League/Serie A/etc. to watch. They don't need TFC.

[v00d00daddy]

Get rid of Dero and keep "the wrong DeGuzman"....? these sports blogs are like assholes in more ways than one. Everyone has one and they can stink....


You might wanna read that article again.

[v00d00daddy]

If the team loses DeRo, fans will be even more upset than they already were.

Terrible soccer, ticket price increases have already been a massive hit.

Add in losing your marquee player, and people are left with a hopeless mess.

Anselmi made a serious mistake in keeping on MoJo for another season, when just about everyone outside of the ML$E boardroom could see he was incompetent by the end of year 3.

A second serious mistake was thinking that fans would pay endlessly increasing amounts to see crap play. Soccer is not "Leafs Nation." People have the Premier League/Serie A/etc. to watch. They don't need TFC.


Some people already know that TFC is crap play..including DeRo and JDG...we go because it's in our town and it's the best that we've got.

As for Leafs Nation.

We most certainly are. Give up your seasons if you don't think you are.

I'm renewing mine...even if they only end up being an investment.

[flatpicker]

mornin d

dont think dero needs to go he has the most passion on the team so of course is outspoken he just needs a coach he can respect

but mista and guz got to go we need dp's who can make a difference

i cannot believe with a million bucks on the table we cant sign a stiker who can score

last thought - the rest of the team needs to stick together because half of our teams problem is the revolving player door and looking for quick fixes due to pressure from mlse to perform we need to build

Totally agree.
DeRo needs to stay, he's the best player on the pitch.
And much of the team needs to stay and grow together.
DP money needs to be freed up and spent on guys that know how to put the ball in the net.

Toronto's biggest problem is scoring goals.... let's fix that and keep the rest.

[Kaz]

I think DeRo needs to sit down shut up and play. He makes 10 times the average Canadian. His 4 year Contract will produce more money in his pocket then most Canadians make in most of their adult life. If he invested it well, and used it wisely he could be comfortable doing just able anything after he finishes playing football.

The only reason to make him a DP is to give other deserving players more money.

To be honest give us Will Johnson (Canadian content to develop), a Good DP Striker, and a decent DM and we will produce the same result, oh and of course a good winger.. maybe two.

I don't agree or disagree with Paul James on this one, but his Idea could result in a break even without DeRo's piss poor attitude.

[Pachuco]

Some people already know that TFC is crap play..including DeRo and JDG...we go because it's in our town and it's the best that we've got.

As for Leafs Nation.

We most certainly are. Give up your seasons if you don't think you are.

I'm renewing mine...even if they only end up being an investment.

An Investment? You still think it's an investment to buy season's tickets? I've done nothing but lose money this year on games I couldn't attend and in some cases couldn't even give them away for free.

Now if you are in the south end that's a different story, but pretty much anywhere else in the stadium it's highly likely you don't sell your tickets for face value unless it's the Beckham or Henry game.

[Pigfynn]

Read the article, James says trade DeRo for Will Johnson (dropping a huge cap hit) and allocation. Then DROP both our DPs and replace DeRo's goals with 3 new DP's.

So, Will johnson and three new dp's while getting rid of DeGuzman and Mista and of course DeRo(although it sucks) Sounds like it could work.

I've heard way crazier suggestions on this board.

[Pigfynn]

People have to remember that DeRo is just 10-14 goals per year that is all he is. The other attributes he displays aren't attributes at all, they're negatives.

If you replace the goals then who cares? I don't. I care about winning.

It would be nice to have Capt'n Canada type guys on this team, but it's far from necessary. We need to win and I promise you MLSE could give a fuck how that is brought about as long as it happens it could be anybody doing it.

[Beach_Red]

Some people already know that TFC is crap play..including DeRo and JDG...we go because it's in our town and it's the best that we've got.

As for Leafs Nation.

We most certainly are. Give up your seasons if you don't think you are.

I'm renewing mine...even if they only end up being an investment.

No, it's not Leafs Nation, it's Jays Nation or Argos Nation.

I feel no need to own seasons tickets, there'll be tickets available to any game I want to go to next year. And the year after.

You're right, seasons tickets are an investment - we give them the money up front and they use it to build the team. We did that for four years and it didn't work.

Now it feels like an investment in Blockbuster Video stoes.

[menefreghista]

An Investment? You still think it's an investment to buy season's tickets? I've done nothing but lose money this year on games I couldn't attend and in some cases couldn't even give them away for free.

Now if you are in the south end that's a different story, but pretty much anywhere else in the stadium it's highly likely you don't sell your tickets for face value unless it's the Beckham or Henry game.

If it makes you feel any better I couldn't move an extra pair in the south end I had for last nights game. Which is pretty telling about the state of the team.

[CretanBull]

Read the article, James says trade DeRo for Will Johnson (dropping a huge cap hit) and allocation. Then DROP both our DPs and replace DeRo's goals with 3 new DP's.

So, Will johnson and three new dp's while getting rid of DeGuzman and Mista and of course DeRo(although it sucks) Sounds like it could work.

I've heard way crazier suggestions on this board.

This assumes that RSL would trade Johnson and allocation for DeRo, assumes that JDG can be dropped (its my understanding that he can't), and assumes that we can find three productive DP's.

We could follow James's suggested course of action and end up with three Mistas...making us much worse off.

[Stouffville_RPB]

People have to remember that DeRo is just 10-14 goals per year that is all he is.

He's the best goal scorer we've ever had. The only legitmate scoring threat we've had in 4 years. Double digit scorers aren't exactly easy to find in MLS.

Is he the greatest player? No, but take out his contribution and I don't even want to know where TFC would be.

[Pigfynn]

You can drop DeGuzman if you pay him out. You can get good DPs if you pay them. As for DeRo.. maybe you don't get Will Johnson but it's fair to say you could get a very good MLS player for him from someone.

it just takes a bunch of $$$$$$$$$$$

[Pigfynn]

He's the best goal scorer we've ever had. The only legitmate scoring threat we've had in 4 years. Double digit scorers aren't exactly easy to find in MLS.

Is he the greatest player? No, but take out his contribution and I don't even want to know where TFC would be.

We wouldn't be looking to replace his goals within the MLS. James suggests 3 DPs to replace the goals.

[Gazza]

People have to remember that DeRo is just 10-14 goals per year that is all he is. The other attributes he displays aren't attributes at all, they're negatives.

If you replace the goals then who cares? I don't. I care about winning.

It would be nice to have Capt'n Canada type guys on this team, but it's far from necessary. We need to win and I promise you MLSE could give a fuck how that is brought about as long as it happens it could be anybody doing it.

So, for a team that can barely score goals, you suggest we get rid of the only guy who can actually score them? "The other attributes he displays aren't attributes at all." Last time i checked, you need to score goals to win games, and DeRo wins games on his own.

Did you see De Guzman's horrible distribution of the ball? Imagine if DeRo didn't have to go back to his own end of the field to collect the ball, and actually had some midfielders who could supply him and the other attackers with service.

[Pigfynn]

So, for a team that can barely score goals, you suggest we get rid of the only guy who can actually score them? "The other attributes he displays aren't attributes at all." Last time i checked, you need to score goals to win games, and DeRo wins games on his own.

Did you see De Guzman's horrible distribution of the ball? Imagine if DeRo didn't have to go back to his own end of the field to collect the ball, and actually had some midfielders who could supply him and the other attackers with service.

No, I suggested that Paul James suggested that we REPLACE his goals with 3 DPs. Could everyone pleeeease stop acting as if this is impossible.

There are 15 other teams in this league that score goals without Dwayne DeRosario. Geez.

Edit: That Wodolonski (sic) dude from San Jose who makes 50K has 12 goals for them...see! amazing isn't it?

[CretanBull]

Did you see De Guzman's horrible distribution of the ball?

About as often as I saw his team mates horrible off the ball movement ;)

[Stryker]

Haven't followed Johnson enough to know if this is a good idea or not but I do like the idea of three new DP's.

[Gazza]

About as often as I saw his team mates horrible off the ball movement ;)


Touche...6 of one ;) But he's not even hitting open spots let alone open players. I did appreciate his ability to stay on his feet when under pressure (gulp).

As for the 3 DP's to replace DeRo. I have no faith that MLSE will bring in the right personnel. They will bring in three "names" to sell tickets but bring nothing to the product on the field. We've seen this movie before.

When people read Paul James' articles, you should take it with a grain of salt, since he has an axe to grind with CMNT players. Especially the players he coached early on.

[Pachuco]

We wouldn't be looking to replace his goals within the MLS. James suggests 3 DPs to replace the goals.

I got three DP goal scorers for you. Denilson, Landin and Mista. There you go. What's to say you don't end up with these three guys?

With Dero you know exactly what you are going to get. Bringing in an outsider is a crapshoot as they have all proven except Angel and maybe Blanco. (I think Schellotto was made a DP after playing in the league).

So why not keep the (CONSISTENT) 10+ goals which is incredibly difficult to come by in the MLS and sign two additional DPs from guys who are currently not earning their salary?

[spark]

No, I suggested that Paul James suggested that we REPLACE his goals with 3 DPs. Could everyone pleeeease stop acting as if this is impossible.

There are 15 other teams in this league that score goals without Dwayne DeRosario. Geez.

Edit: That Wodolonski (sic) dude from San Jose who makes 50K has 12 goals for them...see! amazing isn't it?

The thing is - what have we seen in the last four years that would imply this is even possible? Based on what we've seen we can count on Paul Dikov showing up for training camp and some of Julian's ex-teammates. If Julian's gone, well there goes half our potential signings.

With no GM in place there is no point even throwing this idea out because it is pure fantasy.

Will Johnson is not stepping foot in BMO as a TFC player I can almost guarantee you that.

[J .]

Guevara was replaced by DeRo and DeRo can be replaced. He's a good player, but he's not irreplaceable. His character is lacking and only seems to cause problems, twice on the NT and once here. But if people want to ignore that and pretend he didnt have a hand in the dissent, thats their choice. My hero's have character and class.

We need a fresh start next season. New faces, new leadership. Who goes unbeaten for 13 games, then shits the bed? Who needs to beat the worst team and loses 5-0?Thats poor leadership from the FO and the captains. The FO is being changed, timed to change the lockeroom leadership.

[Pigfynn]

I got three DP goal scorers for you. Denilson, Landin and Mista. There you go. What's to say you don't end up with these three guys?

With Dero you know exactly what you are going to get. Bringing in an outsider is a crapshoot as they have all proven except Angel and maybe Blanco. (I think Schellotto was made a DP after playing in the league).

So why not keep the (CONSISTENT) 10+ goals which is incredibly difficult to come by in the MLS and sign two additional DPs from guys who are currently not earning their salary?

I can quote some best case scenarios for 3 new DPs if you would like to counter your VERY negative worst case scenario. It's not all black or white guys. Assume a happy medium here and the 12+ goals are easily accounted for.

Look I'm not even saying get rid of DeRo, just that Jame's take on the situation is different, it's a possible solution. We need to face the fact that this team needs a major face lift and it may be hard to get in talented players who want to play with an unbelievable ball hog with a shit attitude. Just saying

[Pachuco]

I can quote some best case scenarios for 3 new DPs if you would like to counter your VERY negative worst case scenario. It's not all black or white guys. Assume a happy medium here and the 12+ goals are easily accounted for.

Look I'm not even saying get rid of DeRo, just that Jame's take on the situation is different, it's a possible solution. We need to face the fact that this team needs a major face lift and it may be hard to get in talented players who want to play with an unbelievable ball hog with a shit attitude. Just saying

No no, you don't understand what I'm saying. I would consider getting rid of Dero, but for a known quantity in the MLS. Maybe someone like Angel. DPs are a crapshoot, the statistics prove that. We've had more DPs who have shit the bed then DPs who have been considered a success in the MLS. So if you are going to replace your best player, a player who has proven to be sucessfull in the MLS year after year, you better replace him with atleast 1 known quantity who is as good as him.

J. You use Dero as an example to replace Guevara. That's exactly my point. You know what Dero delivers in the MLS. Bring in Del Piero to replace Dero and you may get 1 goal out of the guy, who knows. This is an entirely different league that has made the likes of Mista and Denilson look terrible. If you are going to replace Dero, it better be with someone who has consistently delivered in the MLS.

[Pigfynn]

I do understand what you're saying and you make a valid point. I do feel that your example of arguably the 3 worst designated players in MLS history is very negative and that it's very reasonable to suggest that 3 (even foreign) DPs could replace DeRo's production.

Is this really that hard to believe?

DP Striker......7-9 goals
DP wide player....3-4 goals
DP attacking mid fielder....5-6 goals

that's a possible 19 goals without even being greedy and without any other striker or midfielder accounted for. We would need another 11-15 goals total from the rest of the team over 25 games to be on par with the top teams.

[CretanBull]

I do understand what you're saying and you make a valid point. I do feel that your example of arguably the 3 worst designated players in MLS history is very negative and that it's very reasonable to suggest that 3 (even foreign) DPs could replace DeRo's production.

Is this really that hard to believe?

DP Striker......7-9 goals
DP wide player....3-4 goals
DP attacking mid fielder....5-6 goals

that's a possible 19 goals without even being greedy and without any other striker or midfielder accounted for.

Or:

DeRo...12 goals
DP wide player...3-4 goals
DP striker...7-9 goals

Thats a possible 25 goals using the same metric.

[Pigfynn]

Or:

DeRo...12 goals
DP wide player...3-4 goals
DP striker...7-9 goals

Thats a possible 25 goals using the same metric.

Question: Does DeRo play nice with these new guys or does he still not ever pass and try to do it all himself like he's always done for every team he's played for?

Because if he does then I love this^^. but if he doesn't ....:(

[C.Ronaldo]

he passed with mista pretty well

mista was hitting him right on the tape with cross field crosses with perfect height and speed

[guelphguy1965]

Reading all this making me wish Dichio was still playing

[Roogsy]

No, I suggested that Paul James suggested that we REPLACE his goals with 3 DPs. Could everyone pleeeease stop acting as if this is impossible.

Well we already have 2 DPs, how many goals did they score?

[Roogsy]

I got three DP goal scorers for you. Denilson, Landin and Mista. There you go. What's to say you don't end up with these three guys?

With Dero you know exactly what you are going to get. Bringing in an outsider is a crapshoot as they have all proven except Angel and maybe Blanco. (I think Schellotto was made a DP after playing in the league).

So why not keep the (CONSISTENT) 10+ goals which is incredibly difficult to come by in the MLS and sign two additional DPs from guys who are currently not earning their salary?


^ This...


I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. I think I might tattoo this on my forehead:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

It's like people decide to throw out proven wisdom for no good reason.
:facepalm:

[H Bomb]

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2010/09/28/15513066.html

Anyone else notice Sandors mistakes in his article. No big deal but to say that Julian was on the goal line for the scoring free kick and that it hit his mop of a haircut is poor journalism ya know. He was running back to the line, and threw his arm out in what basically should have been a red card, and would have been had it not gone in. I guess I just dont like seeing people get paid to write stuff so lazily. Nothing againt him before this or anything.

[Roogsy]

Touche...6 of one ;) But he's not even hitting open spots let alone open players. I did appreciate his ability to stay on his feet when under pressure (gulp).

As for the 3 DP's to replace DeRo. I have no faith that MLSE will bring in the right personnel. They will bring in three "names" to sell tickets but bring nothing to the product on the field. We've seen this movie before.

When people read Paul James' articles, you should take it with a grain of salt, since he has an axe to grind with CMNT players. Especially the players he coached early on.


^ And this...

QFFT.

[H Bomb]

Again roogs, while you obviously disagree, and that's cool, you need to understand that smart, football knowledgable people on here may think that Dero is not the best fit. He may well be a bad influence on the team overall, through whatever his personality traits may be. People aren't arguing to be rid of 12 goals, but football is about more than goals, and for many of us, he doesnt offer too much more than that. Another old saying for you...bad apple spoils the bunch.

[Roogsy]

Again roogs, while you obviously disagree, and that's cool, you need to understand that smart, football knowledgable people on here may think that Dero is not the best fit. He may well be a bad influence on the team overall, through whatever his personality traits may be. People aren't arguing to be rid of 12 goals, but football is about more than goals, and for many of us, he doesnt offer too much more than that. Another old saying for you...bad apple spoils the bunch.


There are many smart football people on this board, many smarter than I am about football. I have no problems agreeing with that. But what I am seeing is not football analysis (from most, some do put up good opinions about DeRo's drawbacks) I am seeing mostly emotional responses to what they feel was an offensive gesture. That has little to do with football. And then they justify their opinions by intionally looking for reasons to ship him out. If DeRo had not made that gesture, I think half of these people wouldn't be so determined to send him off, which tells me it's not about football.

[H Bomb]

i think people are taking that back into the dressing room. Sure it didnt affect the motions of the football match. But maybe it affects the future play of a Cann or Nana seeing the display. Maybe it creates derision in the room. Maybe it sets a negative example to americans/foreigners who see captain canada not as engaged in team reactions. All these things do make a difference, and none of us here are really in a position to talk about those things with any knowledge, which is why we get emotion and speculation. it is what it is basically

[Pookie]

He's the best goal scorer we've ever had. The only legitmate scoring threat we've had in 4 years. Double digit scorers aren't exactly easy to find in MLS.



You mean like Buddle, Casey and Cunningham? Finding 'em is one thing. Using them properly is another.

[Whoop]

i think people are taking that back into the dressing room. Sure it didnt affect the motions of the football match. But maybe it affects the future play of a Cann or Nana seeing the display. Maybe it creates derision in the room. Maybe it sets a negative example to americans/foreigners who see captain canada not as engaged in team reactions. All these things do make a difference, and none of us here are really in a position to talk about those things with any knowledge, which is why we get emotion and speculation. it is what it is basically

This.

Also sends a message to any future coaches, GMs that the players rule the roost.

[mastermixer]

Guevara was replaced by DeRo and DeRo can be replaced. He's a good player, but he's not irreplaceable. His character is lacking and only seems to cause problems, twice on the NT and once here. But if people want to ignore that and pretend he didnt have a hand in the dissent, thats their choice. My hero's have character and class.

We need a fresh start next season. New faces, new leadership. Who goes unbeaten for 13 games, then shits the bed? Who needs to beat the worst team and loses 5-0?Thats poor leadership from the FO and the captains. The FO is being changed, timed to change the lockeroom leadership.

I don't know many atheletes that can fit that bill these days.

[Parkdale]

"All you can do is keep moving forward and I'm going to continue to give 100 per cent on and off the field, stay committed like I always have been and do what I do best — play with pride, passion and joy," De Rosario stated.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/28/sp-torontofc-saltlake-concacaf.html#ixzz10wYaTmOn




If he said 'Passion, Pride and Purpose' I'd know exactly who he was talking to.

[Parkdale]

I don't know many atheletes that can fit that bill these days.


http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/nashplayoffs.jpg

[Stouffville_RPB]

I do understand what you're saying and you make a valid point. I do feel that your example of arguably the 3 worst designated players in MLS history is very negative and that it's very reasonable to suggest that 3 (even foreign) DPs could replace DeRo's production.


Pigfynn: DeRo's cap hit is $450,000 or whatever. 3 DP's cap hit would be significantly more. All that to replace DeRo?

Only 1 player in the top 10 in MLS scoring right now is a DP. So bringing in 3 DP's doesn't solve your scoring problems necessarily.



You mean like Buddle, Casey and Cunningham? Finding 'em is one thing. Using them properly is another.

I agree using them properly is important.
- Though Casey never wanted to play here.
- Cunningham had more than enough chances to hit double digits but missed a lot of scoring oppurtunities.
- Buddle was going through probably the toughest times of his life when he was here and football probably wasn't the most important thing on his mind.

[T0R0NT0 FC]

I don't know many atheletes that can fit that bill these days.

A Mr. Ryan Giggs comes to mind. :drinking:

ANY player who thinks he's bigger than the crest on his shirt needs to go. Period. DeRo seems to have personal issues with just about everyone he deals with. Either everyone else is the problem, or perhaps DeRo does have issues. I'd be more inclined to agree with the latter statement. DeRo is not a team player and besides what he says, he obviously does not play for the team, he plays for a paycheque. Shipping him out is the best thing for the TEAM. You can't have inmates running the asylum. It doesn't work.

12 goals might be easy to make up for if the team starts playing as a TEAM instead of DeRo putting his head down and taking shots from everywhere.

If you doubled Barrett's shots on goal it would be equal to DeRo. If you doubled Barrett's shots on net it would be equal to DeRo. If Barrett kept the same goals per shot rate, surprise!!! He would be equal to DeRo!!! Maybe if DeRo passed the ball more Barrett would have 12 goals and DeRo would have 6 and then we wouldn't have to even have this conversation.

DeRo has to go for the good of the team!

[markus]

Toronto FC facing (another) long, cold winter (http://sports.nationalpost.com/2010/09/29/toronto-fc-facing-another-long-cold-winter/)

“You could take your pick — there’s a lot of distractions going around here,” Barrett said. “But we’re not going to make excuses. When it comes down to it, it’s 11 v. 11 out on the field, and we just didn’t produce.”
Minor details cost TFC (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/minor-details-cost-tfc/article1732112/)

[Stouffville_RPB]

If you doubled Barrett's shots on goal it would be equal to DeRo. If you doubled Barrett's shots on net it would be equal to DeRo. If Barrett kept the same goals per shot rate, surprise!!! He would be equal to DeRo!!! Maybe if DeRo passed the ball more Barrett would have 12 goals and DeRo would have 6 and then we wouldn't have to even have this conversation.


You'd still end up with the same number of goals though.

Take out DeRo's goals and TFC would be 7th in the East and 15th overall on 23 points and wouldn't have even made the CCL.

Is he the best footballer? No. He isn't great off the ball and often times doesn't pass when he should (though this has got much better this season) but DeRo produces on a team full of players who don't. Until others are capable of picking up the slack you can't cut him loose.

[T0R0NT0 FC]

You'd still end up with the same number of goals though.

Take out DeRo's goals and TFC would be 7th in the East and 15th overall on 23 points and wouldn't have even made the CCL.

Is he the best footballer? No. He isn't great off the ball and often times doesn't pass when he should (though this has got much better this season) but DeRo produces on a team full of players who don't. Until others are capable of picking up the slack you can't cut him loose.


Barrett has the same shots per goal ratio as DeRo does. :facepalm: So (hopefully) if he had more shots, he'd have more goals. DeRo seems to be a cancer on any team he's on. Yes he has some talent, but its not worth keeping him in the end.

Frei has done more for this team than DeRo in regards to keeping us in games. Should Frei be a DP too then? I'd say he is more vital to this team than DeRo is. All it takes is one decent DP striker to replace DeRo and the problem is solved.

[Stouffville_RPB]

Barrett has the same shots per goal ratio as DeRo does. :facepalm: So (hopefully) if he had more shots, he'd have more goals. DeRo seems to be a cancer on any team he's on. Yes he has some talent, but its not worth keeping him in the end.

Frei has done more for this team than DeRo in regards to keeping us in games. Should Frei be a DP too then? I'd say he is more vital to this team than DeRo is. All it takes is one decent DP striker to replace DeRo and the problem is solved.

Actually if Barrett and DeRo have the same shots per goal ratio they would have the same number of goals.

I'm not arguing Frei's contribution to the team. I'm saying that replacing DeRo with a DP doesn't mean you are going to score more. That double digit scorers aren't a dime a dozen. Shipping out the best scorer you've ever had isn't the greatest idea.

[T0R0NT0 FC]

Actually if Barrett and DeRo have the same shots per goal ratio they would have the same number of goals.

I'm not arguing Frei's contribution to the team. I'm saying that replacing DeRo with a DP doesn't mean you are going to score more. That double digit scorers aren't a dime a dozen. Shipping out the best scorer you've ever had isn't the greatest idea.

DeRo 60 attempts, 31 shots on net, 12 goals.
Barrett 30 attempts, 15 shots on net, 6 goals.

I'm not sure exactly how that is difficult to figure out?

Wow, peoples undying devotion to DeRo is really amazing... :facepalm: He isn't Messi people, there are PLENTY of DeRo quality players in the world!

[Stencils]

Dero can do amazing things with the ball. Know what? So can the kids in the Roger's fanzone outside the stadium on match day. The question is does he make the TEAM stronger. He certainly does well for himself and on a good day can lift us to a win (see Houston match).

But I'd much rather see a compelling attacking team performance than the De-Ro-Show any day of the week.

[Stouffville_RPB]

Barrett has the same shots per goal ratio as DeRo does. :facepalm: So (hopefully) if he had more shots, he'd have more goals. DeRo seems to be a cancer on any team he's on. Yes he has some talent, but its not worth keeping him in the end.



12 goals might be easy to make up for if the team starts playing as a TEAM instead of DeRo putting his head down and taking shots from everywhere.

If you doubled Barrett's shots on goal it would be equal to DeRo. If you doubled Barrett's shots on net it would be equal to DeRo. If Barrett kept the same goals per shot rate, surprise!!! He would be equal to DeRo!!! Maybe if DeRo passed the ball more Barrett would have 12 goals and DeRo would have 6 and then we wouldn't have to even have this conversation.



DeRo 60 attempts, 31 shots on net, 12 goals.
Barrett 30 attempts, 15 shots on net, 6 goals.

I'm not sure exactly how that is difficult to figure out?


If Barrett took double the shots he does and DeRo takes half as many as you suggested it wouldn't add to anymore goals.
30 shots for Barrett would be 12 goals.
15 shots for DeRo would be 6 goals.
It is still only 18 goals. The team is no further ahead. Not to mention Barrett is playing better than he has ever played for TFC. DeRo does this every year for every team.

DeRo can be traded or let go or whatever but without any replacement for his production TFC would not be any better.

[Roogsy]

Wow, peoples undying devotion to DeRo is really amazing... :facepalm: He isn't Messi people, there are PLENTY of DeRo quality players in the world!

I do see why there is that perception but the reality is that sometimes it's not about undying devotion but about really believing in one's position.

Listen, I am fully aware DeRo is not god's gift to soccer. He isn't the best player in the world. At best an above-average player. But in a below-average league like MLS, he is one of the best we've ever had.

Are there plenty of DeRo quality players in the world? Sure. How many of them want to come play for Toronto FC at less than DP salaries? That's the question you should be asking.

Messi's name is actually kind of a interesting choice. Messi has won accolades everywhere. But the funny thing is that he isn't all that loved in Argentina, the country he represents. He gets an insane amount of criticism for not bringing a World Cup to Argentina. We'd consider them crazy for even questioning his heart and talent, but there you go. It happens.

When results don't go our way, we look for scapegoats. But I'd prefer to look at the evidence that sorrounds all issues and try to be as objective as I possibly can.

[menefreghista]

If players like De Rosario were so easy to find, we would have had one just like him in 2007 and 2008.

Even Paul James suggested replacing him with 3 players. Think about that for a second.

I would like to see us try to keep him but make someone else captain next season.

[Roogsy]

Not just 3 players. He specifically mentioned 3 DPs. Because he is quite aware of the production DeRo puts up and can't explain it away so easily.

So let me get this straight. A team that has had NO luck with 2 DPs is all of a sudden going to be great at picking out the next 3? And how are we ahead financially?

[menefreghista]

To be fair, we've had a moron running our team.

Maybe someone better at that job could make good use of 3 DP players.

But I have no faith in the idiots at MLSE to hire that person.

[mastermixer]

Not just 3 players. He specifically mentioned 3 DPs. Because he is quite aware of the production DeRo puts up and can't explain it away so easily.

So let me get this straight. A General Manager that has had NO luck with 2 DPs is all of a sudden going to be great at picking out the next 3? And how are we ahead financially?

Fixed. Lets hope the bad luck is gone.

[Pigfynn]

To be fair, we've had a moron running our team.

Maybe someone better at that job could make good use of 3 DP players.

But I have no faith in the idiots at MLSE to hire that person.

Exactly

[Hooligan69]

Wow. Wheeler's article (Shine is off TFC) is so poorly written that any point he was trying to make is easily forgotten.

[TFCRegina]

Not just 3 players. He specifically mentioned 3 DPs. Because he is quite aware of the production DeRo puts up and can't explain it away so easily.

So let me get this straight. A team that has had NO luck with 2 DPs is all of a sudden going to be great at picking out the next 3? And how are we ahead financially?

Actually if I was going to create a G&M account it would have been to respond to that.

I really really really wanted to say to PJ...

Right, so we drop our top performer and pick up 3 DPs. Great idea, except we suck at getting good DPs.

[TFCRegina]

No, I suggested that Paul James suggested that we REPLACE his goals with 3 DPs. Could everyone pleeeease stop acting as if this is impossible.

There are 15 other teams in this league that score goals without Dwayne DeRosario. Geez.

Edit: That Wodolonski (sic) dude from San Jose who makes 50K has 12 goals for them...see! amazing isn't it?

And in every other season averaged less than 3 goals a year.

Dumbass move.

[TFCRegina]

Question: Does DeRo play nice with these new guys or does he still not ever pass and try to do it all himself like he's always done for every team he's played for?

Because if he does then I love this^^. but if he doesn't ....:(

De Ro tried to do it all himself when he lead San Jose and Houston to 4 MLS Cups?

Interesting idea...even though he played the role of a playmaker on those teams, and scored less than 10 goals a year in every season prior to TFC.

You see, De Ro isn't a goalscorer, he's a playmaker and at TFC our fucking strikers can't STRIKE.

Do you wonder why he's so "greedy?"

Maybe it's the fact OB White fucking trips over his own feet any time a ball comes within two meters of him.

[TFCRegina]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/nashplayoffs.jpg

You've come dangerously close to being a shitecaps supporter :D

[Kaz]

Here is a question for you all... how many goals have we lost in the last two years from shots that DeRo sent over the top of the net at 30 years, rather then passing to someone with a shot at actually producing something? How much momentum have we lost? How many goals have we had scored against of because of that lost momentum?

Could replacing DeRo with a team player that only scores 7 goals result in 3 or 4 other goals from the rest of the team? can it prevent 2 or 3 goals a year scored because the team we play against use the free ball that he gives them to build up play against us? Can getting rid of DeRo produce 3 or 4 more points a season?

Sure DeRo is a scoring threat.. but when he is the only guy up there and isn't feeding the ball to our strikers or helping produce plays, and he may actually be making are defense work harder then they may have too.. (I mean think about it this year he may have given opposing team up wards of 45 minutes (I have no idea if that is the actual number, but even 1.5 minutes a game over 30 games) of more attacking play because of his long useless shots)

I'd be interesting to see how many games started to turn due to that.. or how many shots were missed this year with a striker or any other player open near the net. I'd like to find out how many shots on goal DeRo has prevent the team from getting this year.

[Kaz]

De Ro tried to do it all himself when he lead San Jose and Houston to 4 MLS Cups?

Interesting idea...even though he played the role of a playmaker on those teams, and scored less than 10 goals a year in every season prior to TFC.

You see, De Ro isn't a goalscorer, he's a playmaker and at TFC our fucking strikers can't STRIKE.

Do you wonder why he's so "greedy?"

Maybe it's the fact OB White fucking trips over his own feet any time a ball comes within two meters of him.

Why has OBW degraded so much in his two years with TFC? is he not getting enough play, is he not being coached enough? he was a hugely promising talent that has degrade this season, he's gotten worse, that show a lack of coaching, which is half the problem... But DeRo has repeatedly ignored open strikers in favour of 30 year strikes. I can remember Santos having his hands up in frustration at one point as he was open, on side and there as easy line right to him and DeRo hit right over the net.

[rocker]

Do you wonder why he's so "greedy?"

Maybe it's the fact OB White fucking trips over his own feet any time a ball comes within two meters of him.

So taking opportunities away from other players will help them develop? Cuz certainly taking opportunities away from other players hasn't led us to the playoffs.

[Pachuco]

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/nashplayoffs.jpg

And how many times has this good ol Canadian demanded to play in his home country? Obviously none cause he ain't here yet. Atleast Dero demanded a trade. This man right here wouldn't give up his MVPs to play for the Raptors.

[menefreghista]

And how many times has this good ol Canadian demanded to play in his home country? Obviously none cause he ain't here yet. Atleast Dero demanded a trade. This man right here wouldn't give up his MVPs to play for the Raptors.

I wonder if Vancouver didn't relocate would Nash be playing for them?

[denime]

And how many times has this good ol Canadian demanded to play in his home country? Obviously none cause he ain't here yet. Atleast Dero demanded a trade. This man right here wouldn't give up his MVPs to play for the Raptors.

true,but lets not forget the trade bumped him from 150K to 400K salary.I would like to see if DeRo would come to TFC for same 150 K Huston Dynamo salary.

Nash is smart enough to know Raptors are owned by ML$E and that means failure.

[James17930]

Not just 3 players. He specifically mentioned 3 DPs. Because he is quite aware of the production DeRo puts up and can't explain it away so easily.

So let me get this straight. A team that has had NO luck with 2 DPs is all of a sudden going to be great at picking out the next 3? And how are we ahead financially?

Exactly -- that was the most ridiculous part of James's article.

"Just go and get 3 DPs."

Oh, is it that easy then?! Well then, Paul, maybe you should throw your hat into the ring for the GM position. :rolleyes:

[Whoop]

And how many times has this good ol Canadian demanded to play in his home country? Obviously none cause he ain't here yet. Atleast Dero demanded a trade. This man right here wouldn't give up his MVPs to play for the Raptors.

He's not even from Toronto. He's from Victoria BC. He has no connection to Toronto.

DeRo only demanded to play in Toronto because he figured he would be getting the DP status and the $$$ that came along with it in Toronto since he wasn't getting it from Houston.

[Whoop]

Besides Nash already gave his time and service to the Canadian National Basketball team. He carried those teams.

[DavydMT]

Besides Nash already gave his time and service to the Canadian National Basketball team. He carried those teams.
:canada:

and i have no problem with DeRo asking for more money, as we are talking about professional football. But timing of his display was very poor and it is all about optics.