Dero "I deserve more"

[TFC/Everton]

Dero's little cheque signing display after he scored today was done in order to tell Management that he should be a DP. :facepalm:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/de-rosario-i-deserve-more

Personally, I do not think that he is DP material. I mean, Casey isn't a DP, Wondo isn't a DP, Joseph isn't a DP, Buddle isn't a DP, Cunningham isn't a DP. This display is not becoming of our captain.

Dero should be traded or stripped of his armband for this BS!

[TFC07]

DeRo is better than those players you mention IMO. If Mista and JDG get DP money, then why can't DeRo? Also, he was promised by our former GM he will get DP money when he signed with Toronto.

[billyfly]

Shouldn't this be that "DeRo deserves butter?"

[TFC/Everton]

DeRo is better than those players you mention IMO. If Mista and JDG get DP money, then why can't DeRo? Also, he was promised by our former GM he will get DP money when he signed with Toronto.

I would take Buddle over Dero any day of the week.

[ArmenJBX]

He's just pissing us off, but maybe he thinks we're on his side. I just don't understand how someone who has been in this league as long as he has been thinks he's DP.

Plus, it's not like he's making 40k a year. If someone payed me 440K a year to play a sport I love I'd take it hands down no complaining.

[Roogsy]

I would take Buddle over Dero any day of the week.



:facepalm:


This is what the conversation has deteriorated to.

Too bad we never had Buddle on our team huh?

[TFC/Everton]

He's just pissing us off, but maybe he thinks we're on his side. I just don't understand how someone who has been in this league as long as he has been thinks he's DP.

Plus, it's not like he's making 40k a year. If someone payed me 440K a year to play a sport I love I'd take it hands down no complaining.

I agree, if La Liga and BPL teams were knocking on the door for him, I would say lets make him a DP to keep him happy, but its not the case.

He think's he's as good as Landon Donovan, but he is mistaken

[prizby]

might have been a reaction to the NEE signs with dollar signs on them and him not understanding their meaning (a bit foolish).

I think he is appropriately paid. Sure he should be paid more in comparison to Mista & de Guzman, but the real question is lets say he was a free agent right now, would there be any team willing to give him more right this moment? I don't see many teams offering as much as he gets let alone giving him more.

The other question I have is, if we gave him more $$$, can we ask him to aslo take a paycut should his performance not be up to standard...it has to work two ways.

With that being said, de Guz & Mista are over paid. de Guz is worth 335k, DeRo - 425k, and Mista 240k

maybe this can lead to a new thread :)

[Auzzy]

If TFC were a soap opera, it would be pretty good.

[mclaren]

Maybe this the reason MLSE is gouging the fans next year - to pay for Dero's salary increase. Me, Naive?

[ilikemusic]

De Rosario is the only person in this entire organization who has lived up to expectations. He is the only person who has made substantive contributions on the pitch. He is the only player who has ever come through in the clutch.

I think its more of a statement against JDG and Mista.

Nobody does as much for this team as DeRo does and he deserves to be compensated thusly.

[Roogsy]

I agree, if La Liga and BPL teams were knocking on the door for him, I would say lets make him a DP to keep him happy, but its not the case.

He think's he's as good as Landon Donovan, but he is mistaken

Donovan makes 2mill a year. Is DeRo 1/4th the player? :D

Is JDG as good as Donovan? Their salaries are quite similar.

When you put it in these terms, DeRo's gripes make more sense to me. That's why I have been so biased in his favour. I know his contract situation has been eating at him all season long. And yet her performed for us more than we could have possibly asked him. And we can't be understanding of a gesture to management? Shoot...WE were pissed at a $100 hike in our tickets and have been screaming and yelling for days. NEE put up signs. We had our own banner. People are talking protests! But DeRo sends a quick message to management about his own frustration as well and we're ready to lynch him. Geez...this crowd is hypocritical.

Donovan is an interesting player because in my opinion, he is probably the best player the US has seen in a long time and the main reason for the Galaxy's success over the past few years. He is also the reason Buddle can score, making this arguments about DeRo all the more interconnected because there are some (hilarious) posts referring to a preference for Buddle over DeRo.

[Nuvinho]

MLSE is charging more because they figure you are entertained for two hours a week watching soccer, then the rest of the week following their soap opera of an organization. They gotta charge you for that.

[Hustle]

DeRos compensation is not fair based on the salaries of the others on the team.

[Heathen]

I agree, if La Liga and BPL teams were knocking on the door for him, I would say lets make him a DP to keep him happy, but its not the case.

He think's he's as good as Landon Donovan, but he is mistaken

What's the BPL?

[London]

^^^ brantford premier league

[Nuvinho]

Here I thought the Leafs were the downfall of MLSE. The events of the past week are crazy!! MLSE is taking it up the......in the PR department.

[DOMIN8R]

Life isn't fair. But this is what you get when you negotiate a 4 year deal. Sometimes you come out ahead - sometimes you don't. Both MLSE/MLS bet that they would get an ROI on their commitment. Turns out that they did. Dero is pissed that he didn't negotiate better. I would be too. But unless he is willing to leave (ask for a trade) - then he isn't in a very good bargaining position.

In a salary cap and DP limit situation, why would you offer more?

I think that he is asking the fans to do his PR. But if he really wants more $ then he should demonstrate that he is willing to move for it. That might force MLSE's hand.

[Whoop]

De Rosario is the only person in this entire organization who has lived up to expectations. He is the only person who has made substantive contributions on the pitch. He is the only player who has ever come through in the clutch.

I think its more of a statement against JDG and Mista.

Nobody does as much for this team as DeRo does and he deserves to be compensated thusly.

Yeah, but you don't bitch about it in public.

It's not the first time he's done this. See the interview last season.

There's a reason why TFC hasn't won anything. A true measure of a successful athlete is how he/she responds to adversity. When everything is going well, no one complains. But these guys as soon as they face any problems, they point fingers at one another, bitch and complain.

Now at time when everything is in shambles you have a guy tossing another hand grenade in the pile?

As Auzzy said best, if TFC were a reality TV show they'd win an Emmy.

[TFC/Everton]

Donovan makes 2mill a year. Is DeRo 1/4th the player? :D

Is JDG as good as Donovan? Their salaries are quite similar.

When you put it in these terms, DeRo's gripes make more sense to me. That's why I have been so biased in his favour. I know his contract situation has been eating at him all season long. And yet her performed for us more than we could have possibly asked him. And we can't be understanding of a gesture to management? Shoot...WE were pissed at a $100 hike in our tickets and have been screaming and yelling for days. NEE put up signs. We had our own banner. People are talking protests! But DeRo sends a quick message to management about his own frustration as well and we're ready to lynch him. Geez...this crowd is hypocritical.

Donovan is an interesting player because in my opinion, he is probably the best player the US has seen in a long time and the main reason for the Galaxy's success over the past few years. He is also the reason Buddle can score, making this arguments about DeRo all the more interconnected because there are some (hilarious) posts referring to a preference for Buddle over DeRo.

Point taken on Buddle.

I will agree that JDG and Mista do not deserve the money they make, but Dero has a low football IQ, he is forever offside and forever trying to go through 4 guys when he should pass the ball. Maybe I am just bias against him because I cant stant his style of play. I do however, respect his work ethic. He gives 100% every game. Alot more than can be said about JDG.

[johnmolinaro]

my story on Dero:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/25/sp-dero-contract.html

John Molinaro
CBCSports.ca

[Chevy]

DeRos compensation is not fair based on the salaries of the others on the team.

Yeah, compared to Cann, Gargan and Attakora he's tremendously overpaid. :)

After the cheque signing BS, I can see those three guys thinking to themselves "F.U. Asshole. I bust my ass too, and I wanna get paid but maybe we should try to get a result here". Great leadership.

[Whoop]

If DeRo feels he deserves more, maybe TFC should let him walk and see if he can get with another MLS team.

I mean, doesn't he make the most a non-DP can make in the MLS?

Will he hold out prior to the start of the next training camp in order to get it?

[TFC/Everton]

Yeah, compared to Cann, Gargan and Attakora he's tremendously overpaid. :)

After the cheque signing BS, I can see those three guys thinking to themselves "F.U. Asshole. I bust my ass too, and I wanna get paid but maybe we should try to get a result here". Great leadership.

I would add Frei to that list too!

[Roogsy]

I will agree that JDG and Mista do not deserve the money they make, but Dero has a low football IQ, he is forever offside and forever trying to go through 4 guys when he should pass the ball. Maybe I am just bias against him because I cant stant his style of play. I do however, respect his work ethic. He gives 100% every game. Alot more than can be said about JDG.


Can't disagree much although I do think it isn't his football IQ as much as a degree of tunnel-vision. His offsides do drive me nuts though. As do the airballs.

[Whoop]

Regardless, personally TFC is back at square one where they should just blow the whole thing up and start over.

Kind of like those expansion days.

[CretanBull]

"I think I’ve showed my commitment to this team, to this city and to this franchise, and it’s time for them to show me some commitment as well,"


Good luck DeRo. We've been here for four years and we're still waiting for the club to respect our commitment.

[Roogsy]

Good luck DeRo. We've been here for four years and we're still waiting for the club to respect our commitment.



Oh crap...he's in trouble.

TFC fans have been taking it dry for 4 seasons now. He may be ill-equipped to deal with the greedy monster he's decided to go up against.

[Chevy]

If DeRo feels he deserves more, maybe TFC should let him walk and see if he can get with another MLS team.

I mean, doesn't he make the most a non-DP can make in the MLS?

Will he hold out prior to the start of the next training camp in order to get it?

Exactly what I was thinking. Offer him a full release/buyout from his $400k+ contract and let him test the market.

You wanna right your own cheques buddy? Go for it. The world is yours Dwayne.

I bet he shuts up real quick.

[CretanBull]

I will agree that JDG and Mista do not deserve the money they make, but Dero has a low football IQ, he is forever offside and forever trying to go through 4 guys when he should pass the ball. Maybe I am just bias against him because I cant stant his style of play. I do however, respect his work ethic. He gives 100% every game. Alot more than can be said about JDG.

I don't think DeRo has a low football IQ, I think he lacks confidence in most of his teammates and as a result tries to do too much himself. I kinda don't blame him.

[FluSH]

DeRo needs to be paid what he deserves... and that's a hell of alot more than he is getting paid currently... This is just wrong... how in the world does he find the motivation to do what he does day in day out when lackees in his team are getting more? This cannot continue...

[Nuvinho]

How much does he want? $750K? $900K?

That's easy to fix - just on JDG's pay cheque have a new tax - DDR Tax of 50%

[Whoop]

The whole team's pay structure is out of whack and as a result, it's time to blow it up.

Everyone included.

[TFC07]

Yeah, but you don't bitch about it in public.

It's not the first time he's done this. See the interview last season.

There's a reason why TFC hasn't won anything. A true measure of a successful athlete is how he/she responds to adversity. When everything is going well, no one complains. But these guys as soon as they face any problems, they point fingers at one another, bitch and complain.

Now at time when everything is in shambles you have a guy tossing another hand grenade in the pile?

As Auzzy said best, if TFC were a reality TV show they'd win an Emmy.

Agreed.

This is what I don't like about DeRo. DeRo should look at Cann and Nana to see how they're not bitching about their contracts in public.

[Roogsy]

Agreed.

This is what I don't like about DeRo. DeRo should look at Cann and Nana to see how they're not bitching about their contracts in public.


Which of those two have 4 MLS Cups?

Which of those two have twice been MLS All-Star MVPs?

Which of those two have dozens of national team caps?

Which of those two have won a Gold Cup?

Which of those two has scored 20+ goals in 2 seasons here?

Yes, he should take a lesson from guys who have shown absolutely no extraordinary ability whatsoever...

[Nuvinho]

Currently MLSE is paying around $2.7M for 2 DPs (JDG and Mista pro-rated), now if you add DeRo's salary......around $3M. Cut the fat (JDG and Mista), give DeRo $750K and go and sign JPA next year. Done.

[FluSH]

Call me old fashion... but in my job, if you work hard and do great things you will get a promotion... DeRo has worked hard and he's done incredible things....

Give him his promotion

[Roogsy]

Currently MLSE is paying around $2.7M for 2 DPs (JDG and Mista pro-rated), now if you add DeRo's salary......around $3M. Cut the fat (JDG and Mista), give DeRo $750K and go and sign JPA next year. Done.



This...

[CretanBull]

my story on Dero:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/25/sp-dero-contract.html

John Molinaro
CBCSports.ca

I realize that it probably can't be reported (because I doubt anyone of significance would go on the record) but are you aware of the (broken) promises that were made to DeRo when he agreed to come to Toronto?

[Nuvinho]

IF NYRBs don't want JPA next year (which seems likely) and we don't make a pitch for him...I will be very pissed.

[London]

Currently MLSE is paying around $2.7M for 2 DPs (JDG and Mista pro-rated), now if you add DeRo's salary......around $3M. Cut the fat (JDG and Mista), give DeRo $750K and go and sign JPA next year. Done.

do this!!!!!

juan will be out of contract at years end and can still score alot of goals in this league

[Whoop]

Which of those two have 4 MLS Cups?

Which of those two have twice been MLS All-Star MVPs?

Which of those two have dozens of national team caps?

Which of those two have won a Gold Cup?

Which of those two has scored 20+ goals in 2 seasons here?

Yes, he should take a lesson from guys who have shown absolutely no extraordinary ability whatsoever...

Yes, but as captain he should lead by example. When the team's small playoff hopes are wavering he pulls this stunt?

Please.

That's why some questioned him being chosen captain in the first place.

If this player was wearing some other colours we'd be telling him to "fuck off" or laughing at the supporters of the other team.

[Canary Canuck]

I wish MLS would just scrap the DP rule and just have a 4 million dollar cap instead so extra money can be allocated more efficiently.

As for Dero, he's about to turn 33 at the start of next season. Dishing out a big contract to a guy that age is risky.

[Roogsy]

I realize that it probably can't be reported (because I doubt anyone of significance would go on the record) but are you aware of the (broken) promises that were made to DeRo when he agreed to come to Toronto?


I'd love to see a comment from John or any other of the news sources about this.

[TFC07]

Which of those two have 4 MLS Cups?

Which of those two have twice been MLS All-Star MVPs?

Which of those two have dozens of national team caps?

Which of those two have won a Gold Cup?

Which of those two has scored 20+ goals in 2 seasons here?

Yes, he should take a lesson from guys who have shown absolutely no extraordinary ability whatsoever...

I meant lesson on how they're taking (behaving) their contract situation. Obviously DeRo is better player than Nana and Cann, but he isn't only one who is underpaid on this team. I wonder what Nana (he was the game right?) and Cann thought about DeRo's goal celebration today?

[Nuvinho]

you can't really compare Nana and Cann's contracts.

Nana when he started with TFC was unknown and signed the deal with MLS (developmental contract). Since his deal is up now, he will definately be getting a pay raise. I would say more than double.

Cann had no other option, and took what he can with MLS. He will get a raise as well.

[DOMIN8R]

In my world, when you strike a deal - it sticks. Both parties abide by the terms and conditions of the agreement.

There will always be discrepencies from one player to another that doesn't seem fair. That - is - life. I hope that people aren't proposing that the fans should dictate when contracts between players and teams should be renegotiated above contractual law.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

If I was the guy working in the office or warehouse who consistantly stepped up and delivered, dispite being surrounded by underachievers, slackers and hacks, I'd feel like DeRo.

IMO, this what he does. Is he a complete footballer...NO. But he is hands down, the best we've got. If I worked in an office with JDG and Mista and found out they were making double and triple what I was...I'd react exactly the same way.

I have talked a number of times on here about value. There are only a handful of TFC players that give me value. Professional footballers who actually deserve their salary. Dero, Frie, Cann and Nana after that it's just filler.

JDG? Mista? Are you fuckin' kidding me? Worth more than Dero?

That sums up the mismanagement of this organization...

[Roogsy]

I meant lesson on how they're taking (behaving) their contract situation. Obviously DeRo is better player than Nana and Cann, but he isn't only one who is underpaid on this team. I wonder how Nana (he was the game right?) and Cann feel seeing how DeRo celebrate his goal today. Those two deserve a raise as well.

I love this advice on "behaviour". You know what? When you score 12 goals, a gesture of "pay attention" is fine by me. It's not like he pretended to snort a line of coke on the pitch.

When I scored the biggest account in my division, I walked into my manager's office and negotiated better terms for my contract and a nicer office. That's how companies reward performance. MLSE constantly rewards bad decisions and poor results and always loses players and coaches who could have helped their teams do better. They are like the antithesis of success.

I didn't play the nice guy, I played the smart guy. The smart guy gets paid, the nice guy gets used.

DeRo is not one to be taken advantage of. And his gesture was observed by the persons he intended to see it. Good for him. He is standing up for himself and I respect that. This has nothing to do with leadership. He showed leadership by playing his guts out. By scoring the goal. Of course, we come to expect that from him, almost taking it for granted really but we feel entitled to criticize his decision to send a message to the very people that WE TOO have decided need a message from us about our own gripes. It's a little hypocritical on our part I think.

[Roogsy]

In my world, when you strike a deal - it sticks. Both parties abide by the terms and conditions of the agreement.

There will always be discrepencies from one player to another that doesn't seem fair. That - is - life. I hope that people aren't proposing that the fans should dictate when contracts between players and teams should be renegotiated above contractual law.


And in my world, things get renegotiated all the time. If MLSE want to make their best athlete play out his contract...that's their right. They have the right to roll that dice however they like. It's not like it won't blow up in their face right?

[Whoop]

Don't get me wrong DeRo should be making the most on the team, but man I hate athletes who pull these shenanigans.

Who does DeRo think he is, Terrell Owens?

[Chevy]

In my world, when you strike a deal - it sticks. Both parties abide by the terms and conditions of the agreement.

There will always be discrepencies from one player to another that doesn't seem fair. That - is - life. I hope that people aren't proposing that the fans should dictate when contracts between players and teams should be renegotiated above contractual law.

Yep. Cann, Nana, Frei and even Gargan could have all gone the "pay me" route this season. I guess they were too busy trying to win football matches.

DeRo is the one that needs to learn a little here. I say let him walk, or buy him out from his contract. I bet he shuts up real quick.

[TFC/Everton]

If I was the guy working in the office or warehouse who consistantly stepped up and delivered, dispite being surrounded by underachievers, slackers and hacks, I'd feel like DeRo.

IMO, this what he does. Is he a complete footballer...NO. But he is hands down, the best we've got. If I worked in an office with JDG and Mista and found out they were making double and triple what I was...I'd react exactly the same way.

I have talked a number of times on here about value. There are only a handful of TFC players that give me value. Professional footballers who actually deserve their salary. Dero, Frie, Cann and Nana after that it's just filler.

JDG? Mista? Are you fuckin' kidding me? Worth more than Dero?

That sums up the mismanagement of this organization...

Yes, but Mista and JDG played in one of the top leagues in the World. JDG was his teams MVP in '08, and Mista was once a top striker in Spain. He even has a cap with the world cup champs Spain. If I was at work and only had a highschool diploma and found of two guys with masters degrees made more money than I did, I would know why.

[Nuvinho]

can we PLEASE renegotiate JDG's contract.

After reading the articles and also seeing comments on here and twitter. DeRo is wayyyy more visible as the face of the franchise, including doing alot of charity work for the community and MLS/MLSE. Now how come we don't see JDG doing any of that? For a guy who is making that much money, shouldn't he also be doing stuff like that. That's just my opinion.

[Nuvinho]

Frei is making over $100K? Don't GAs get paid well?

We don't know if Cann or Nana's agent are telling MLSE 'pay me'. DeRo was just vocal about it. I don't like the way he did it, but I am sure something happened recently that caused his reaction.

[TFC07]

I love this advice on "behaviour". You know what? When you score 12 goals, a gesture of "pay attention" is fine by me.

When I scored the biggest account in my division, I walked into my manager's office and negotiated better terms for my contract.

I didn't play the nice guy, I played the smart guy. The smart guy gets paid, the nice guy gets used.

DeRo is not one to be taken advantage of. And his gesture was observed by the persons he intended to see it. Good for him. He is standing up for himself and I respect that. This has nothing to do with leadership. He showed leadership by playing his guts out. By scoring the goal. Of course, we come to expect that from him, almost taking it for granted really but we feel entitled to criticize his decision to send a message to the very people that WE TOO have decided need a message from us about our own gripes. It's a little hypocritical on our part I think.

So you agree with timing of his gesture was right? I agree DeRo deserves a raise, but what is ticking people off here how he's handling it. How many pro athletes do you see or make gestures like that during important part of the season?

[Kevvv]

In my world, when you strike a deal - it sticks. Both parties abide by the terms and conditions of the agreement.


Mine too, but when the company brings in new hires and overpays them relative to current employees, it upsets the applecart and begs to be redressed.

[London]

Yes, but Mista and JDG played in one of the top leagues in the World. JDG was his teams MVP in '08, and Mista was once a top striker in Spain. He even has a cap with the world cup champs Spain. If I was at work and only had a highschool diploma and found of two guys with masters degrees made more money than I did, I would know why.





how is that right??

so someone with a masters in the same job as you can slack off and underperform and you will grin and take it???

and even be far better than them???

id want my money too!!!!!



and i agree with the comment that if you signed the contract, you should stick to it

[Roogsy]

Yep. Cann, Nana, Frei and even Gargan could have all gone the "pay me" route this season. I guess they were too busy trying to win football matches.

DeRo is the one that needs to learn a little here. I say let him walk, or buy him out from his contract. I bet he shuts up real quick.


LOL! Too funny...all those players are barely lucky to be playing pro football. THAT's why they shut up and play. Cann was playing in D2. Nana has been developed by this team and is starting to become a decent player, he isn't one yet. And Gargan has done what exactly?

But the guy who has 50% of our goals this season needs to learn from them...right.

Buy out his contract? Dude...I bet he'd love that. Yeah he probably wouldn't say much. Probably because he'd be happy to be released from this contract and allowed to sign elsewhere that will pay him what he wants. Its not like he doesn't have a reputation in this league as a performer right? It's not like there is no team that won't pick him up right? Or is there? Are you guys sure about that?


Interesting...

[Chevy]

Frei is making over $100K? Don't GAs get paid well?

We don't know if Cann or Nana's agent are telling MLSE 'pay me'. DeRo was just vocal about it. I don't like the way he did it, but I am sure something happened recently that caused his reaction.

Exactly. I'm sure they will all be doing that at the season's end.

But they will do it thorugh their agents. Do it in private Talk to the new GM (Was DeRo hoping Mr X was watching today's telecast??). But don't make an ass out of yourself on national TV.

[SilverSamurai]

can we PLEASE renegotiate JDG's contract.

After reading the articles and also seeing comments on here and twitter. DeRo is wayyyy more visible as the face of the franchise, including doing alot of charity work for the community and MLS/MLSE. Now how come we don't see JDG doing any of that? For a guy who is making that much money, shouldn't he also be doing stuff like that. That's just my opinion.
Just because JDG isn't "visible" doesn't mean he doesn't do anything.
Silent/anonymous donors anyone?

Not saying thats the case, just that it's unknown most likely.

[Chevy]

LOL! Too funny...all those players are barely lucky to be playing pro football. THAT's why they shut up and play. Cann was playing in D2. Nana has been developed by this team and is starting to become a decent player, he isn't one yet. And Gargan has done what exactly?

But the guy who has 50% of our goals this season needs to learn from them...right.

Buy out his contract? Dude...I bet he'd love that. Yeah he probably wouldn't say much. Probably because he'd be happy to be released from this contract and allowed to sign elsewhere that will pay him what he wants. Its not like he doesn't have a reputation in this league as a performer right? It's not like there is no team that won't pick him up right? Or is there? Are you guys sure about that?


Interesting...


Please tell me a club that will pay DeRo $1m+ a season to play for them?

[London]

^^^^ houston got rid of dero to get holden, now they want rid of holden and would probably take dero in a heartbeat

not saying they would pay 1 mill though, but more than he gets here

[TFC/Everton]

how is that right??

so someone with a masters in the same job as you can slack off and underperform and you will grin and take it???

and even be far better than them???

id want my money too!!!!!



and i agree with the comment that if you signed the contract, you should stick to it

You can want your money all you want, but that is not the way the world works.

[Nuvinho]

Just because JDG isn't "visible" doesn't mean he doesn't do anything.
Silent/anonymous donors anyone?

Not saying thats the case, just that it's unknown most likely.

sorry, what I meant, is that since he is our highest paid player, he should also be more involved in the community as one of the faces of the franchise.

[Whoop]

Any difference?

Zwf3FRn1mEI

[GBV]

:scarf:
Agreed.

This is what I don't like about DeRo. DeRo should look at Cann and Nana to see how they're not bitching about their contracts in public.


I find his candor refreshing.

[TFC07]

We don't know if Cann or Nana's agent are telling MLSE 'pay me'. DeRo was just vocal about it. I don't like the way he did it, but I am sure something happened recently that caused his reaction.

That's the thing! They're not complaining (?) about their contracts in public. They're keeping it behind closed doors for now. I just hope DeRo does the same thing until the season is over. Right now isn't the time to make gestures in public.

[London]

You can want your money all you want, but that is not the way the world works.

in the world i live in (thank god) if you prove your worth , you are rewarded accordingly.


I make more money than the guy who sits at the desk across from me and he has 2 degrees LOL

[Roogsy]

Please tell me a club that will pay DeRo $1m+ a season to play for them?

I cannot release confidential information but your beliefs that DeRo's services are not interesting to other clubs is tacitly inaccurate.

And if he ever leaves and plays for another club and scores a dozen goals for them (some of them against us I would assume) we won't be able to say that we didnt have warning can we?

[London]

some collect a paycheque and some earn it

[scooterTFC]

I think this thread is confusing two separate questions:

1. Does Dero deserve a pay raise based on his on-field performance over the past two seasons in Toronto?

2. Was the cheque signing goal celebration an appropriate way for him to ask for a pay raise?

Answers

1. On the first question I think the answer is yes he deserves a raise. Set aside the league’s stupid salary rules for a second and just look at what he’s done for the team. In almost any business employees' who outperform their wages should be expected to ask for raise. Your employer pays you what you are worth or you go find another employer who will. The reality of his situation is that MLS salary rules artificially supress the wages of long serving employees, like Dero, relative to the global market for soccer talent.

2. As for the second question, I think the celebration was inappropriate given that he is the team’s captain. It was also pointless given that the team doesn’t have a coach or GM at this point - who exactly was he sending a message to? I can understand his frustration, but he could handle this better. The sad reality is that he stayed in MLS too long, he missed his window of opportunity to cash-in lower league in Europe.

[Nuvinho]

So we agree that DeRo should be getting paid more? We just don't agree about the way he did it? I am sure he could of handled it better, but we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. MLSE is F....ed up!!! They could of promised him that once MoJo was gone, they would deal with his contract, etc.

[Chevy]

^^^^ houston got rid of dero to get holden, now they want rid of holden and would probably take dero in a heartbeat

not saying they would pay 1 mill though, but more than he gets here

Dude, Holden now plays for Bolton in the EPL. Back to my original question, who is going to pay DeRo a million bucks a season to play for them.

Nobody would do it in DeRo's prime, but they are gonna fork over the dollars now? Come on. He's a smallish 30+ midfielder with decent MLS pace and striking ability. Decent on-field leader and questionable off-field influence.

Seriously, stop taking the DeRo Viagara for a few days. My guess is that you'll come down to about $400k in salary.

[Roogsy]

Seriously, stop taking the DeRo Viagara for a few days. My guess is that you'll come down to about $400k in salary.


And we should take the Cann viagara? Gargan? JDG?

What other positives do we have on this team?

DeRo is our Bautista. DeRo just hit his 50th homer. How do YOU think the Jays are going to handle the Bautista situation?

[Blizzard]

DeRo is better than those players you mention IMO. If Mista and JDG get DP money, then why can't DeRo? Also, he was promised by our former GM he will get DP money when he signed with Toronto.

Was he? I've heard that discussed but have never seen it confirmed anywhere.

[Chevy]

I cannot release confidential information but your beliefs that DeRo's services are not interesting to other clubs is tacitly inaccurate.

And if he ever leaves and plays for another club and scores a dozen goals for them (some of them against us I would assume) we won't be able to say that we didnt have warning can we?

You still didn't answer the question. I'm sure he would find a home at many clubs, but Who is gonna pay him a million bucks a year to kick field goals? Who?

Nobody would do it when he was a MLS MVP and winning all those cups in his prime. If they did he would have jumped all over that.

[London]

Dude, Holden now plays for Bolton in the EPL. Back to my original question, who is going to pay DeRo a million bucks a season to play for them.

Nobody would do it in DeRo's prime, but they are gonna fork over the dollars now? Come on. He's a smallish 30+ midfielder with decent MLS pace and striking ability. Decent on-field leader and questionable off-field influence.

Seriously, stop taking the DeRo Viagara for a few days. My guess is that you'll come down to about $400k in salary.


you are correct, i meant to put brian ching in the second name.

big brain fart there

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Yes, but Mista and JDG played in one of the top leagues in the World. JDG was his teams MVP in '08, and Mista was once a top striker in Spain. He even has a cap with the world cup champs Spain. If I was at work and only had a highschool diploma and found of two guys with masters degrees made more money than I did, I would know why.

Sure they "used" to work for one of the top companies in the world...UNTIL THEY GOT LAID OFF AND NOBODY WANTED THEM!!!

I'm not familiar with Mista's story but JDG's is well documented...he couldn't get a game...ANYWHERE in Europe! He made it very clear, he was not interested in the MLS until his agent said sorry son but this is the best offer your going to get.

Neither of them could get a job, that's why they're now employed here!!!

[Whoop]

^^^^ houston got rid of dero to get holden, now they want rid of holden and would probably take dero in a heartbeat

not saying they would pay 1 mill though, but more than he gets here

What's Houston cap situation like?

This isn't the first time money and DeRo haven't gotten along.

Part of the reason he left Houston, or wanted to leave Houston, was that they wouldn't make him the DP.

Let's look back to December 2008-January 2009.

http://blogs.chron.com/soccer/archives/2009/01/de_rosario_offi.html

[Blizzard]

Currently MLSE is paying around $2.7M for 2 DPs (JDG and Mista pro-rated), now if you add DeRo's salary......around $3M. Cut the fat (JDG and Mista), give DeRo $750K and go and sign JPA next year. Done.

JDG's contract is guaranteed.
Mista is not signed beyond the end of this season.

[Roogsy]

You still didn't answer the question. I'm sure he would find a home at many clubs, but Who is gonna pay him a million bucks a year to kick field goals? Who?

Nobody would do it when he was a MLS MVP and winning all those cups in his prime. If they did he would have jumped all over that.



Teams also didn't have the DP rule at all, let alone THREE DP slots to use. Teams didn't have a $40million entry fee. Beckham and Henry were only a pipedream.

Nobody did it because there was no Mista, JDG or Denilson. Complete busts that teams want to avoid.

Your argument holds no water because you are comparing one marketplace that is completly different than the other. When DeRo was MLS MVP he was also one of the top paid players IN THE LEAGUE, let alone on his team.

What does that little fact do to your argument?

[Nuvinho]

Give DeRo $750K. Give JDG a 2 for 1 first class plane ticket back to Spain....so he can take is friend Mista with him.

[Nuvinho]

JDG's contract is guaranteed.
Mista is not signed beyond the end of this season.

Yeah, that's the bad thing....but MLSE/MLS got out of the Gerba contract, hopefully then can pull some strings on JDG's contract ;)

[Chevy]

Teams also didn't have the DP rule at all, let alone THREE DP slots to use. Teams didn't have a $40million entry fee. Beckham and Henry were only a pipedream.

Nobody did it because there was no Mista, JDG or Denilson. Complete busts that teams want to avoid.

Your argument holds no water because you are comparing one marketplace that is completly different than the other. When DeRo was MLS MVP he was also one of the top paid players IN THE LEAGUE, let alone on his team.

What does that little fact do to your argument?

You still didn't answer the question. What team (in ANY league) is gonna pay DeRo a million bucks a season? Just one team is all I need. Any League. One team.

Let me know.

[Blizzard]

I cannot release confidential information but your beliefs that DeRo's services are not interesting to other clubs is tacitly inaccurate.

And if he ever leaves and plays for another club and scores a dozen goals for them (some of them against us I would assume) we won't be able to say that we didnt have warning can we?

But will they pay him over $1 million? It's not likely. I wonder how much he really thinks he deserves.

[Nuvinho]

Question - Who is saying that DeRo is asking for $1M?

He could be asking for $500K, $600K, etc.

[Roogsy]

I've gone out of my way to let you know there is interest in DeRo. That is all you need to know.

And feel free to address the other point in the post I made.

Any time.

[Chevy]

^^ based on today's interview, he wants close to JDG. so let's say $1.5M. Fucking laughable.

[Blizzard]

Yeah, that's the bad thing....but MLSE/MLS got out of the Gerba contract, hopefully then can pull some strings on JDG's contract ;)

It's not quite the same situation. Once again, JDG was the best player on the field today.

[Chevy]

I've gone out of my way to let you know there is interest in DeRo. That is all you need to know.

And feel free to address the other point in the post I made.

Any time.

Unless Interest = $1m a season, you still didn't answer my question. When you address my point, I'll address yours.

When he signs that multi-million dollar contract I will stand corrected. Until then I will stand correct.

[Chevy]

Question - Who is saying that DeRo is asking for $1M?

He could be asking for $500K, $600K, etc.

Based on his quotes today, he's looking at being "close" to the top paid player. So, obvously more than Mista and close to if not equal to JDG.

[Nuvinho]

5 of the 14 DP contracts are under $1M (this is even when you multiple out the pro-rated contracts).

Becks, JPA, Ljumgberg, Mista, JDG, Donovan, Henry, Castillo, and Marquez make over $1M

[bigtfcfan]

Shameful act by Dero. Not for wanting a raise, but for the way he is handling this (ie the goal celebration). Definitely not proper captain etiquette.

[Nuvinho]

Mista is our top paid player (if you do the pro-rated salary)....now that is disturbing.

[Roogsy]

Unless Interest = $1m a season, you still didn't answer my question. When you address my point, I'll address yours.

When he signs that multi-million dollar contract I will stand corrected. Until then I will stand correct.


There are two things wrong with your arguments. One is that you have setup a strawman argument and the other is a classic case of avoidance.

That's fine. I've become used to people around here wanting to know confidential info as a condition of accepting the error of their position and frankly, I'd much prefer they continue mistaken rather than satisfy curiosity that is not deserved.

Carry on.

[Heart of Stone]

I think being from the Malvern area of Scarborough, DeRo simply doesn't trust the wealthy douche bags he sees in the stands everyweek at BMO...

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Yes, but Mista and JDG played in one of the top leagues in the World. JDG was his teams MVP in '08, and Mista was once a top striker in Spain. He even has a cap with the world cup champs Spain. If I was at work and only had a highschool diploma and found of two guys with masters degrees made more money than I did, I would know why.

I admitted not knowing much about Mista's background so I just check it out.

Appears Mista's Masters Degree is a fake. "Once a top striker in Spain" has scored 5 goals in the last 5 years...:facepalm:

Caps came in a friendly against China and one against European powerhouse San Marino...:facepalm:

[Chevy]

Roogsy, I really don't care about your confidential info or your relationship with DeRo. Hell, considering how strongly you stand up for him you could be DeRo himself.

So let's just make it hypothetical, who could possibly pay him close to a million bucks a year?

The average EPL player makes $1.2M USD. The average 33 year old EPL around $900k. He's not going to the EPL. That ship has sailed and he wasn't on it. He's not going to the other top leagues either.

He could potentially get that in MLS, but MLS DP's (non-TFC DP's of course) are signed more for ticket sales than skill or performance. He certainly has the performance, but he doesn't sell tickets anymore (outside of Toronto).

When I see DeRo getting paid a million bucks a season by any club other than TFC I will be the first to come on here and eat my words.

In the meantime, no hard feelings.

[Roogsy]

Roogsy, I really don't care about your confidential info or your relationship with DeRo. Hell, considering how strongly you stand up for him you could be DeRo himself.

So let's just make it hypothetical, who could possibly pay him close to a million bucks a year?

The average EPL player makes $1.2M USD. The average 33 year old EPL around $900k. He's not going to the EPL. That ship has sailed and he wasn't on it. He's not going to the other top leagues either.

He could potentially get that in MLS, but MLS DP's (non-TFC DP's of course) are signed more for ticket sales than skill or performance. He certainly has the performance, but he doesn't sell tickets anymore (outside of Toronto).

When I see DeRo getting paid a million bucks a season by any club other than TFC I will be the first to come on here and eat my words.

In the meantime, no hard feelings.

None at all. I am here because I love talking footy. At this point, that's all I have to be happy about I suppose.

As for being DeRo himself...I just have one thing to say...


I WISH! :lol:

(The man is living my dream...I suppose I live vicariously through him.)

But the truth is that long before he came to Toronto, long before I met him, he was my favourite player in MLS. What he has done garners respect and admiration. He is what I wish we had more of in Canada. His accomplishments are what I wish for my soon-to-be-born son and maybe more. But DeRo opened those doors, (as did TFC I suppose) and I admire what he has done especially considering our similar histories and backgrounds. My defence of him comes solely from that admiration and my appreciation for what he has done for TFC and the rest of his career elsewhere. It also explains my post in his defence because I feel we fans are far too unappreciative of what he has done here considering everything else we have had to endure.

[Shakes McQueen]

Time for the club to "show some commitment" to him? He's currently in year two of a four year deal. Don't like the money you signed for? Don't sign a four year contract.

If DeRo ended up getting a raise from TFC, I wouldn't be ready to riot about it, but I certainly think this is unbecoming of him. I think the same thing when players pull this kind of shit anywhere.

- Scott

[T0R0NT0 FC]

Sure DeRo is MLS good, but there is a reason why he has only played MLS.... he isn't good enough to play anywhere else. What a joke that was today, and he is supposed to be the Captain of the team? All those reported "issues" former coaches etc. seem to have with DeRo and JDG and their ego's sure did get confirmed today!

[Toronto_Bhoy]

I've never seen Roogsy play football but I've seen Roogsy and I can assure you...he's not DeRo!

No hard feelings to either of you! :)

[prizby]

I cannot release confidential information but your beliefs that DeRo's services are not interesting to other clubs is tacitly inaccurate.

And if he ever leaves and plays for another club and scores a dozen goals for them (some of them against us I would assume) we won't be able to say that we didnt have warning can we?

I agree any other club would want him, no one will dispute that.

I doubt any club will double what DeRo makes in a year, let alone offer anymore than what he receives right now, ...and until this is proven wrong with some good evidence, I will stand by this

if he was in his twenties, this would be a different matter

[Whoop]

This is why I prefer to sing team songs as opposed to player songs because in the end...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100811120744/simpsons/images/thumb/1/1a/Surly-Duff.jpg/200px-Surly-Duff.jpg

"Hey, Surly only looks out for one guy ... Surly!"

[ManUtd4ever]

I think DeRo is absolutely deserving of a raise. Most supporters will agree that he has earned it at this point. However, I don't agree with the gesture in the midst of our most important game of the season. DeRo has been an exemplary captain and our offensive MVP without question but his actions will unfortunately lead people to question his priorities...

[Roogsy]

This is why I prefer to sing team songs as opposed to player songs because in the end...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100811120744/simpsons/images/thumb/1/1a/Surly-Duff.jpg/200px-Surly-Duff.jpg

"Hey, Surly only looks out for one guy ... Surly!"


Should it be otherwise? Should DeRo look out for you? Are you looking out for DeRo?


In your criticisms of DeRo you failed to notice or acknowledge that he was one of only a FEW TFC players that directed themselves to our corner and clapped in appreciation for our efforts. Again I point to the hypocrisy of our position that DeRo shouldn't gesture about his unhappiness but we supporters have been bitching for days about the price hike and packaging TFC came out with on the seasons ticket package. It seems like an incredibly inconsistent position. A double-standard if you will...

[prizby]

Any difference?

Zwf3FRn1mEI


1. he isn't necesarily asking for a raise
2. he wants more years
3. he said he's going to finish out his contract

[Shakes McQueen]

I think DeRo is absolutely deserving of a raise.

I don't understand why "deserving" a raise even comes into the equation - particularly in a league with a salary cap.

Your chance to argue what you "deserve" is when it's time to sign a new contract. Once you've signed the piece of paper, play the fucking game until it's time for another contract negotiation.

Let's just ban multi-year contracts altogether, since owners are expected to rip them up any time a player thinks his play warrants a raise.

And just out of curiosity, if a player has a shit season, do the owners get to demand a pay cut for a player? Even if he "deserves" it? Or more likely, would the union go batshit crazy, and all hell would break loose at the mere suggestion of paying a guy based on results when he has a legally-binding contract?

If DeRo didn't like the number he signed in TO for, then sign a one or two year deal and prove you're worth more in the meantime. Or... don't sign the contract in the first place? Particularly if a bunch of teams would love to line up and give the guy $1mil+ to play in this league.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

And just out of curiosity, if a player has a shit season, do the owners get to demand a pay cut for a player? Even if he "deserves" it?


Actually in this league, it's worse. They get released.

[Waggy]

This whole "Mista and DeGuz make more than Dero, and Dero is better, therefore Dero should make more" isn't a logical argument. So because Mista and DeGuzman were signed to TERRIBLE contracts that probably shouldn't have happened Dero should get his (max) salary more than tripled so his psyche can feel better? What? If he honestly is that insecure about his place on the team then I don't want him. If he won't play for us for less than 1.2 million dollars I don't want him. Dero is a fantastic mls player, well worth the max salary available in this system. If he feels he's worth 1.2 then I wish him luck finding it

[Shakes McQueen]

I point to the hypocrisy of our position that DeRo shouldn't gesture about his unhappiness but we supporters have been bitching for days about the price hike and packaging TFC came out with on the seasons ticket package. It seems like an incredibly inconsistent position. A double-standard if you will...

I don't understand for the life of me how those two situations are analogous...?

- Scott

[Roogsy]

Where are people getting all these numbers from? :noidea:

Let's pull numbers out of our arse! :hurray:

[Shakes McQueen]

Actually in this league, it's worse. They get released.

If they are under contract, they get paid. Paid to play, or paid to sit and do fuck all. Either way, they are paid according to the terms of their contract.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

I don't understand for the life of me how those two situations are analogous...?

- Scott


We're both taking it up the pipes from MLSE. :hump:

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Sure DeRo is MLS good, but there is a reason why he has only played MLS.... he isn't good enough to play anywhere else. What a joke that was today, and he is supposed to be the Captain of the team? All those reported "issues" former coaches etc. seem to have with DeRo and JDG and there ego's sure did get confirmed today!

The fact that DeRo has chosen to play in the MLS doesn't mean he couldn't have played elsewhere. IMO, when you look at many CMNT players that have plied their trade overseas Dwanyne could have easily done so if he had really wanted too.

As a two time MLS MVP, four MLS "Best XI" and has scored two game winning goals in MLS Cup Finals.

However, what he did today is unbecoming as the Club's top player and team captain.

Very disappointing.

[Roogsy]

If they are under contract, they get paid. Paid to play, or paid to sit and do fuck all. Either way, they are paid according to the terms of their contract.

- Scott


Maybe we should ask Sutton if he continued to get paid after his mid-season release? ;)

[Shakes McQueen]

We're both taking it up the pipes from MLSE. :hump:

DeRo is taking it up the pipes? How so? By getting a paycheck that is in line with the legally-binding contract HE SIGNED with the team, despite now deciding he is worth more than that amount after the fact?

And how is that analogous to the consumer of a product complaining about a price increase?

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Maybe we should ask Sutton if he continued to get paid after his mid-season release? ;)

Maybe we should ask Sutton what the terms were of the contract he signed, regarding guaranteed money.

- Scott

[Whoop]

Should it be otherwise? Should DeRo look out for you? Are you looking out for DeRo?


In your criticisms of DeRo you failed to notice or acknowledge that he was one of only a FEW TFC players that directed themselves to our corner and clapped in appreciation for our efforts. Again I point to the hypocrisy of our position that DeRo shouldn't gesture about his unhappiness but we supporters have been bitching for days about the price hike and packaging TFC came out with on the seasons ticket package. It seems like an incredibly inconsistent position. A double-standard if you will...

I'm not begrudging the fact that he should be making more money in comparison to his teammates.

I'm just criticizing a) the timing and b) openness of it. Let his representation handle that stuff.

I go to an event to see pro athletes perform not to sign imaginary cheques or evoke a no dunking policy.

Like you said when you landed the big account, you went to the boss to ask for a raise. You didn't stand outside your boss' office, in front of all your colleagues, and say "time to renegotiate sucka!"

So why doesn't DeRo, at the end of the season go to the new boss and say, "listen I've done a lot for this team and I think I deserve a raise because..."

And list all his facts and present an argument instead of participating in some sort "get on SportsCentre highlights" crap.

I understand the sentiment don't appreciate the gesture.

[Roogsy]

DeRo is taking it up the pipes? How so? By getting a paycheck that is in line with the legally-binding contract HE SIGNED with the team, despite now deciding he is worth more than that amount after the fact?

And how is that analogous to the consumer of a product complaining about a price increase?

- Scott

If you only knew the whole story. Sadly, you only see a highly-paid player with a gripe against his management and can't see past that. By the same token, I suppose we are all greedy consumers who demand too much for the very little we pay for each game. :D

[scooterTFC]

I feel for longtime MLS stars like Dero, the league's salary cap and contract rules have held their pay below global wage standards. Now that MLS teams are able to go outside the cap and contract rules to pay 'market level' wages to attract a few star players from outside the league its got to be hard for the loyal employees like Dero who built their careers within the league. Its got to be frustrating... its almost hard to believe the leagues rules are even legal.

[Roogsy]

So why doesn't DeRo at the end of the season go to the new boss and say, "listen I've done a lot for this team and I think I deserve a raise because..."

And list all his facts and present an argument instead of participating in some sort "get on SportsCentre highlights" crap.

I understand the sentiment don't appreciate the gesture.


Perfectly understandable. And it's as reasonable as those who tell us that the only option we have if we are unhappy with our season ticket price hikes is to not renew.


So if we renew, that is a tacit approval of the price hike and we should not complain.

[Whoop]

But as Scott also points out they can turn to him and say "we'll renegotiate if you want after you fulfill the last two years of your contract."

[Shakes McQueen]

So why doesn't DeRo at the end of the season go to the new boss and say, "listen I've done a lot for this team and I think I deserve a raise because..."

And as I've mentioned before - this I would be fine with. He's within his rights, like anyone else, to go to management and request a new contract.

And if management say no, he's within his rights to remember the conversation in two years when his contract expires.

Until then, shut up and play. Making public gestures and openly telling reporters to "tell management" that he is worth more to the team? He's entitled to do it, but I'm entitled to dislike it.

- Scott

[Whoop]

Perfectly understandable. And it's as reasonable as those who tell us that the only option we have if we are unhappy with our season ticket price hikes is to not renew.


So if we renew, that is a tacit approval of the price hike and we should not complain.

At the end of the day, unfortunately whether one likes it or not or whether one wants to or not, that is the most effective way to voice your displeasure.

[Roogsy]

Until then, shut up and play. Making public gestures and openly telling reporters to "tell management" that he is worth more to the team? He's entitled to do it, but I'm entitled to dislike it.


And this is what it boils down to.

Has he held his end of the bargain? Has he played to the best of his ability? I think we all know the answer to that.

He (and Frei) are the only ones to have given us moments to remember on this team for 2 years in a row. And instead of remembering all that he has given us, we are going to rest our case on our approval of DeRo not on his performance, not on his effort, but on a gesture that wasn't even directed to us.

Magnificent.

[Roogsy]

At the end of the day, unfortunately whether one likes it or not or whether one wants to or not, that is the most effective way to voice your displeasure.


I suppose then if you are renewing you won't be complaining about ML$E? :D

[Lucky Strike]

I think DeRo is absolutely deserving of a raise. Most supporters will agree that he has earned it at this point. However, I don't agree with the gesture in the midst of our most important game of the season. DeRo has been an exemplary captain and our offensive MVP without question but his actions will unforunately lead people to question his priorities...

I think this pretty much sums up the issue. I think we're very nearly all in agreement he deserves a raise. No one has done more for this club on the pitch and the fans recognize that. I'm sure the club (as in the people who run it as opposed to the club as an acting entity) recognizes that too. How much of a raise is up for debate, though.

The thing is:

1) That it's a very inappropriate gesture for the club captain to make in such a crucial part of the season

2) iI looks even worse when supposedly Cann and Attakora feel they should be making more money too, but are making their demands known in private (and Attakora is like 23 or something behaving much more maturely)

3) DeRo signed a contract for four years. I think Roogsy made the valid point that things can be re-negotiated when the performance warrants it. But it wouldn't be insulting to DeRo should the club refuse because when the contract was signed, the terms were acceptable to both parties. I think DeRo is entitled to make the request for a raise but the club is in no way forced to oblige.

4) There have been grumblings in the past two years of "unfulfilled promises" when it comes to DeRo so we can't really speak to that. DeRo would have a legitimate gripe if TFC for example, promised to review the terms of his contract after X amount of time and didn't end up doing so. But in the end, perhaps that should have been formalized in the contract.

So in the end, the consensus seems to be that DeRo deserves a raise, but the manner in which he's asking for one and the timing of it (especially given that he's the captain) is ill-advised.

[Whoop]

Like I mentioned when the whole Wheeler interview broke out last year, if DeRo is unhappy with his contract maybe one of the first things he should have done was fire his representation.

Roogs, you available? You seem pretty cutthroat. I think you could be the next Leigh Steinberg or Scott Boras. LOL

[Darlofletch]

I love this advice on "behaviour". You know what? When you score 12 goals, a gesture of "pay attention" is fine by me. It's not like he pretended to snort a line of coke on the pitch.

When I scored the biggest account in my division, I walked into my manager's office and negotiated better terms for my contract and a nicer office. That's how companies reward performance. MLSE constantly rewards bad decisions and poor results and always loses players and coaches who could have helped their teams do better. They are like the antithesis of success.

I didn't play the nice guy, I played the smart guy. The smart guy gets paid, the nice guy gets used.

DeRo is not one to be taken advantage of. And his gesture was observed by the persons he intended to see it. Good for him. He is standing up for himself and I respect that. This has nothing to do with leadership. He showed leadership by playing his guts out. By scoring the goal. Of course, we come to expect that from him, almost taking it for granted really but we feel entitled to criticize his decision to send a message to the very people that WE TOO have decided need a message from us about our own gripes. It's a little hypocritical on our part I think.

good for you, and if de ro can do that good for him as well, but in your success story above, did you stop in the middle of scoring the big account to send a snarky message to your boss, or did you act like a professional, get the job domne, and then go to your boss afterwards?

whether people agree or not, it's definitely a very valid argument he's got, it's the timing of this, as the team captain in the middle of a must win game, that rubs me the wrong way.

[Whoop]

I suppose then if you are renewing you won't be complaining about ML$E? :D

What does it say if renew one ticket instead of two? LOL

I'm still undecided. I'm leaning one way though.

[Whoop]

He (and Frei) are the only ones to have given us moments to remember on this team for 2 years in a row. And instead of remembering all that he has given us, we are going to rest our case on our approval of DeRo not on his performance, not on his effort, but on a gesture that wasn't even directed to us.

Magnificent.

Never said athletes are bright. LOL

The road is littered with athletes who have done so much for their teams only for it to be undone in the end because of some stupidity.

For Toronto examples alone see Sundin, Mats; Alomar, Roberto; Carter, Vince; Bosh, Chris.

[Shakes McQueen]

And instead of remembering all that he has given us, we are going to rest our case on our approval of DeRo not on his performance, not on his effort, but on a gesture that wasn't even directed to us.

Magnificent.

I don't even understand this point, or who it was supposed to be directed at.

"Rest our case on our approval of DeRo"? This incident certainly plays into my overall approval of the guy, like anything does. But you're trying to draw a melodramatic picture of the parameters in this discussion, to make the other 'side" sound ridiculous.

I'm well aware of the great things DeRo has done for this club as an individual, and will continue to remember them despite the odd disagreements I have with his behaviour. And likewise, I will criticize him when he does things I don't like.

I occasionally get in arguments with my friends, and don't like some of the things they do. They are still ultimately my friends.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

Like I mentioned when the whole Wheeler interview broke out last year, if DeRo is unhappy with his contract maybe one of the first things he should have done was fire his representation.

Roogs, you available? You seem pretty cutthroat. I think you could be the next Leigh Steinberg or Scott Boras. LOL


Funny enough I've thought about it. With the number of players I have spoken to, I have found their representation to be....substandard I guess?

The problem? I like what I do now. And the world of athletics is so full of unethical, illegal and shady behaviour that I am not sure I want any part of it.

And I am not kidding, hearing things about Mo;s dealings is partly what turned me off.

But I tell you this much...firsthand...DeRo got screwed in his contract. I know it's hard to believe with the information that is public but that is not the whole picture. I wish he would indeed fire his rep. Useless twits represent some of these players. In some instances, I wonder if it's not outright robbery by the agents.


Ugh...now I am worked up.

[Blowing Bubbles]

This whole thing is really, really troubling me.

Oh and when certain prominent TFC bloggers/semi mgmnt shills talk shit about ppl who question the JDG contract with their main argument to belittle ppl with being "who cares how much he makes, his cap his is only 335k. You don't his salary and neither do I, so why do you care how much over the cap hit he makes?"

This is one of the reasons why it matters if a DP makes 800k, 1.7 mill or 3.5 mill. There is going to be envy in the locker room.

So Dero looks at JDG rolling like a pig in shit in all his DP money and he looks at Mista making close to 1 mill and he must think he's the biggest sucker in the world.

The flip side of that is he's not as good as Freddie Montero and Seb Le Toux and they both make significantly less.

In guaranteed compensation DeRo makes 444k. Montero makes 180k and Le Toux makes 122k.

This whole thing is becoming rotten. We need to rip apart the roster and hire ppl in management who are EXPERTS in South American footy. Get us our own Freddie Montero. And then lets get DP's in here who actually earn their money so there can be no bitching or penis envy. And to be honest if that meant that JDG and Mista hit the fucking road and DeRo gets his salary bumped from 444k to 888k I'm fine with that. I mean you can't hate - the guy actually produces.

Still blows that our captain is in a contract squabble that goes public while we're in a playoff meltdown.

[Roogsy]

good for you, and if de ro can do that good for him as well, but in your success story above, did you stop in the middle of scoring the big account to send a snarky message to your boss, or did you act like a professional, get the job domne, and then go to your boss afterwards?


You don't think there is a significance that he did this after scoring his 12th goal, one more than last year?

I would say in his mind, he got his "job done". And I would agree with him. Having 50% of our goals says it all about whether he did his part. As he looks around and sees nobody else around him come even close.

And yeah, I've been direct with my boss. And he takes it because as long as I produce, I am his favourite person. By the same token, I am fully aware that if I stop producing, that forthrightness won't be as well-received.

[Darlofletch]

You don't think there is a significance that he did this after scoring his 12th goal, one more than last year?

I would say in his mind, he got his "job done". And I would agree with him. Having 50% of our goals says it all about whether he did his part. As he looks around and sees nobody else around him come even close.

And yeah, I've been direct with my boss. And he takes it because as long as I produce, I am his favourite person. By the same token, I am fully aware that if I stop producing, that forthrightness won't be as well-received.

but again, do you do it in the middle of negotiating with clients?

and, you think he thinks he's got the job done? when we're 2-1 down in the middle of a must win game? that's job done? If that's how de ro thinks, and you obviously know him a lot better than most people here, then he really is a ridiculously selfish player who has no place being team captain.

job done???? I feel as outraged as jim mora being asked about playoffs. and you agree with him?

I guess if that's how he thinks, the dwayne me rosario tag is right.

[James Oliphant]

It's really this simple...

He signed a 4-year contract. If he wasn't happy with it when it was drawn up and presented to him, he shouldn't have signed it.

[v00d00daddy]

I started to read this thread and then stopped because it doesn't matter to me what people think.

Does he deserve more money? Maybe.

Is this what a leader/captain does? No fucking way.

He's a douche in my eyes.

For every goal he scores like that there are 10 volleys from 40 yards out that he puts out for a throw in....just like the one in the first half.

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

His 12 goals have amounted to a whole pile of nothing for us. I'd take half the goals and twice the leader. The team would be better for it.

[BS1327]

I wouldn't be surprised if DeRo apologized publically for his gestures sometime before the Real match Tuesday...

I agree he deserves more money. Not a million, but more. He's been the most consistent player out there, along with Frei. When you do your job well, and exceed expectations, you deserve a raise.

Comparing DeRo to Donavon on the fact that both made DP money before the DP rule was implemented, LA FO knew Donavon would be looking into testing Europe again (I remember hearing him say he wanted to go to Everton permanently). Thus they offered him a DP contract so he wouldn't leave.
However, I don't think (I could be wrong, just my opinion) DeRo want's to leave, and FO knows that, so there's no reason for them to rush and sign him to a DP contract.

Perhaps he's been in talks, and denied by FO, so this was his way of showing them that he does deserve it. Just a thought.

[habstfc]

This whole thing is really, really troubling me.

Oh and when certain prominent TFC bloggers/semi mgmnt shills talk shit about ppl who question the JDG contract with their main argument to belittle ppl with being "who cares how much he makes, his cap his is only 335k. You don't his salary and neither do I, so why do you care how much over the cap hit he makes?"

This is one of the reasons why it matters if a DP makes 800k, 1.7 mill or 3.5 mill. There is going to be envy in the locker room.

So Dero looks at JDG rolling like a pig in shit in all his DP money and he looks at Mista making close to 1 mill and he must think he's the biggest sucker in the world.

The flip side of that is he's not as good as Freddie Montero and Seb Le Toux and they both make significantly less.

In guaranteed compensation DeRo makes 444k. Montero makes 180k and Le Toux makes 122k.

This whole thing is becoming rotten. We need to rip apart the roster and hire ppl in management who are EXPERTS in South American footy. Get us our own Freddie Montero. And then lets get DP's in here who actually earn their money so there can be no bitching or penis envy. And to be honest if that meant that JDG and Mista hit the fucking road and DeRo gets his salary bumped from 444k to 888k I'm fine with that. I mean you can't hate - the guy actually produces.

Still blows that our captain is in a contract squabble that goes public while we're in a playoff meltdown.

Not as good as Montero or Le Toux, Really. I'd argue that point.

[Roogsy]

and, you think he thinks he's got the job done? when we're 2-1 down in the middle of a must win game? that's job done? If that's how de ro thinks, and you obviously know him a lot better than most people here, then he really is a ridiculously selfish player who has no place being team captain.

That's a nice twist you've given the situation. Of course it has nothing to do with the reality.

He knows what the team's job is. (Remember the team? The 10 other players that are out there that should also be producing but aren't?) And they all know that they need to fight until the are either in the playoffs or completely eliminated. He knows what it takes. He didn't win 4 MLS Cups by accident you know.

That is a completely different argument from his perception that he has fulfilled his end of the bargain with the team's management. He promised to work hard. He has. He promised to score. He has. He promised to represent the team in their various corporate and charity efforts. He has. In this regard, he has come through each year above and beyond what would have been reasonably considered "fulfilling" his contract. If you can't see the difference between his efforts on the pitch and his negotiations with the team, I am not here to explain it to you.

But of course, you attribute his gesture as an indication that he is checking out. That his year is done now that he has scored one more goal than last year. You see what you want to see I suppose.

[James Oliphant]

That is a completely different argument from his perception that he has fulfilled his end of the bargain with the team's management. He promised to work hard. He has. He promised to score. He has. He promised to represent the team in their various corporate and charity efforts. He has.

You left out the part where he promised to do it for 4 years at an even smaller salary than the one he's making now.

[Roogsy]

You left out the part where he promised to do it for 4 years at an even smaller salary than the one he's making now.


And you left out the part where you don't know the whole story.

[Shakes McQueen]

You left out the part where he promised to do it for 4 years at an even smaller salary than the one he's making now.

Bah-Zing! Perfect, LOL.

- Scott

[James Oliphant]

And you left out the part where you don't know the whole story.

And what, pray-tell, is the whole story? Did he or did he not sign a 4-year contract at a salary lower than what he's currently making?

[James Oliphant]

Bah-Zing! Perfect, LOL.

- Scott

Apparently not. I guess there's more to the story, which Roogsy will now fill us in on.

[Shakes McQueen]

And you left out the part where you don't know the whole story.

This discussion is pointless if you're just going to keep falling back to "well I know more than you guys, but I can't tell you... but if you knew what I knew, you would see the error of your ways".

Unless someone forged his signature on that contract, I also have trouble seeing what additional backstory would change my opinion on this matter anyway.

- Scott

[v00d00daddy]

He knows what the team's job is. (Remember the team? The 10 other players that are out there that should also be producing but aren't?) And they all know that they need to fight until the are either in the playoffs or completely eliminated. He knows what it takes. He didn't win 4 MLS Cups by accident you know.



Yeah..and he was part of that underachieving team when it mattered most. Where was he when we were sliding down the table in the last 2 months.

The guy has 2 good games out of the last 12 or 13 and he starts pulling this shit?

Please.

[Roogsy]

Yeah..and he was part of that underachieving team when it mattered most. Where was he when we were sliding down the table in the last 2 months.

The guy has 2 good games out of the last 12 or 13 and he starts pulling this shit?

Please.



Damn...DeRo scored 12 goals in 3 games?

That's gotta be some record huh? :noidea:

[v00d00daddy]

Who cares what he was promised.

How does that take away from the fact that he looked like a douche bag doing what he did today?

[v00d00daddy]

Damn...DeRo scored 12 goals in 3 games?

That's gotta be some record huh? :noidea:


No bud. I'm talking about the meat of our schedule. You know....all of August for the most part?

WHere was he then?

[Shakes McQueen]

Apparently not. I guess there's more to the story, which Roogsy will now fill us in on.

I'm guessing it's the old "Mo promised him DP money" thing from months ago when the Wheeler interview was being discussed. If it is, I may just go back and paste my posts from that thread.

- Scott

[James Oliphant]

This discussion is pointless if you're just going to keep falling back to "well I know more than you guys, but I can't tell you... but if you knew what I knew, you would see the error of your ways".

Unless someone forged his signature on that contract, I also have trouble seeing what additional backstory would change my opinion on this matter anyway.

- Scott

That or De Ro is mentally retarded. The only other backstory I can conjure up is that whoever presented him with the contract said "oh those numbers aren't right...just sign the contract and we'll have our people change them after", all while snickering and holding two fingers behind his back. And if De Ro signed the contract under those conditions he is, by definition, mentally retarded.

[James Oliphant]

I'm guessing it's the old "Mo promised him DP money" thing from months ago when the Wheeler interview was being discussed. If it is, I may just go back and paste my posts from that thread.

- Scott

I may have saved you the trouble with my previous post. ;)

[Blizzard]

I admitted not knowing much about Mista's background so I just check it out.

Appears Mista's Masters Degree is a fake. "Once a top striker in Spain" has scored 5 goals in the last 5 years...:facepalm:

Caps came in a friendly against China and one against European powerhouse San Marino...:facepalm:

Good God man, where have you been hiding? Mista's past has been discussed ad infinitum here at RPB and every other Toronto FC forum for that matter.

[Roogsy]

This discussion is pointless if you're just going to keep falling back to "well I know more than you guys, but I can't tell you... but if you knew what I knew, you would see the error of your ways".

Unless someone forged his signature on that contract, I also have trouble seeing what additional backstory would change my opinion on this matter anyway.

- Scott


It's always the "backstory" we don't know that would surprise us. But that's fine. If you all have had enough of this side of the DeRo story then by all means, continue bashing away. I don't have anything else to add anyways. You guy have made up your mind. But I get the feeling there is also a large percentage of fans that sympathize with DeRo and I will hope that MLSE listens to them. Especially considering the bad PR they've gotten in recent weeks.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

If I was Dasovic I'd be tempted to sit or even suspend De Ro, best player or not, he can't be pulling a stunt like that. If no action is taking against this, it will only serve to strengthen the systemic disfunction that's become the norm with TFC.

[Darlofletch]

That's a nice twist you've given the situation. Of course it has nothing to do with the reality.

He knows what the team's job is. (Remember the team? The 10 other players that are out there that should also be producing but aren't?) And they all know that they need to fight until the are either in the playoffs or completely eliminated. He knows what it takes. He didn't win 4 MLS Cups by accident you know.

That is a completely different argument from his perception that he has fulfilled his end of the bargain with the team's management. He promised to work hard. He has. He promised to score. He has. He promised to represent the team in their various corporate and charity efforts. He has. In this regard, he has come through each year above and beyond what would have been reasonably considered "fulfilling" his contract. If you can't see the difference between his efforts on the pitch and his negotiations with the team, I am not here to explain it to you.

But of course, you attribute his gesture as an indication that he is checking out. That his year is done now that he has scored one more goal than last year. You see what you want to see I suppose.

he has done all those things absolutely, and if he wants to knock on whoever's door on monday and demand better, that's his right, but for those 90 minutes, his main job isn't to score goals and score personal points againts management, it's to help his team win. scoring goals is a part of that, along with many other things. The game as a whole, he didn't have a great game, but I'm not going to suggest he didn't leave everything out there, and his reaction after we scored our 2nd, getting into a wrestling match with cronin to get the ball back to the centre circle asap, I love that shit. And I'd like to hope he regrets bringing his personal beefs onto the pitch.

but for me his efforts on the pitch and his negotiations with the team(sic) should be completely seperate things, and a captain and leader especially shouldn't be thinking about personal goals while the game's at such a crucial stage.

[Roogsy]

No bud. I'm talking about the meat of our schedule. You know....all of August for the most part?

WHere was he then?


You mean in between playing Prekiball in the league and CCL, flying to Canadian national commitments and the All-Star game?

I suppose he was hoping he didn't have to do everything at TFC. I guess he was wrong. But I suppose if he was indeed wrong about being the only one that can get things done at TFC, then perhaps his demonstration today is more accurate than you'd like to believe? :noidea:

[James Oliphant]

It's always the "backstory" we don't know that would surprise us. But that's fine. If you all have had enough of this side of the DeRo story then by all means, continue bashing away. I don't have anything else to add anyways. You guy have made up your mind. But I get the feeling there is also a large percentage of fans that sympathize with DeRo and I will hope that MLSE listens to them. Especially considering the bad PR they've gotten in recent weeks.

But you could change our minds by giving us the "backstory", couldn't you?

[Darlofletch]

And you left out the part where you don't know the whole story.

are you friends with mo or anselmi or someone else on management side of things as well? or do you just know de ro's side of the story, which i would suggest is not the whole story.

[James Oliphant]

I would suggest, darlo, that De Ro's side of the story doesn't even matter in this discussion, as his signature is obviously on the FOUR YEAR CONTRACT. Which means he agreed to abide by the terms in said contract for FOUR YEARS.

[Shakes McQueen]

It's always the "backstory" we don't know that would surprise us. But that's fine. If you all have had enough of this side of the DeRo story then by all means, continue bashing away.

I believe James specifically asked you for this secret backstory that only you know. And no one is "bashing" him - you're trying to frame the argument again. I don't know why you always seem so sensitive when it comes to criticism of DeRo.


I don't have anything else to add anyways. You guy have made up your mind.

If you have credible information that you think will change our minds, then present it. But you can't honestly just expect us to take you at your word that we are totally wrong, based on information you won't give us, from a source you can't reveal.

- Scott

[Darlofletch]

It's always the "backstory" we don't know that would surprise us. But that's fine. If you all have had enough of this side of the DeRo story then by all means, continue bashing away. I don't have anything else to add anyways. You guy have made up your mind. But I get the feeling there is also a large percentage of fans that sympathize with DeRo and I will hope that MLSE listens to them. Especially considering the bad PR they've gotten in recent weeks.

I really hope mlse isn't listening to the fans. i think that's the problem all along, that's what got jdg here on such a troublesome salary, and a lot of other decisions seem to have been made on a panicky must please the fans basis. I hope we get a gm in who doesn't give a shit what the fans want, or what anselmi wants for his "investments" and just makes whatever unpopular moves might be necessary to build a winning team.

[James Oliphant]

I believe James specifically asked you for this secret backstory that only you know. And no one is "bashing" him - you're trying to frame the argument again. I don't know why you always seem so sensitive when it comes to criticism of DeRo.

But it's OUR minds which are clearly made up, Scott...not his. I mean, he said so...

[v00d00daddy]

You mean in between playing Prekiball in the league and CCL, flying to Canadian national commitments and the All-Star game?

I suppose he was hoping he didn't have to do everything at TFC. I guess he was wrong. But I suppose if he was indeed wrong about being the only one that can get things done at TFC, then perhaps his demonstration today is more accurate than you'd like to believe? :noidea:


I'm not saying he doesn't deserve more money.

I just question why, when he snatches back a goal for us in a 2-0 game, he decides that the big thing is not getting back into the game..but rather...telling MLSE he wants more money.

BTW...weren't we playing "preki ball" early in the season when DeRo scored his other goals?

So when DeRo scores it's because he's a superstar..and when he plays like shit it's Preki's fault and the schedule's fault?

Dude..you need to stop chilling with the players...especially DeRo. YOu sound like you could be his agent or a family member. It's sad.

[Blizzard]

Yeah..and he was part of that underachieving team when it mattered most. Where was he when we were sliding down the table in the last 2 months.

The guy has 2 good games out of the last 12 or 13 and he starts pulling this shit?

Please.

There is something to what you say. Prior to his recent and wonderful two goal performance versus Houston, he hadn't actually potted a goal since I don't recall. A couple of months perhaps? It certainly coincided with our slide down the table. He got off to that wonderful start and then got stuck on nine for the longest time.

[Shakes McQueen]

are you friends with mo or anselmi or someone else on management side of things as well? or do you just know de ro's side of the story, which i would suggest is not the whole story.

Good point. In a contract dispute, I would suggest information from either side implicating the other is not overly trustworthy, as both are "interested parties".

- Scott

[James Oliphant]

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve more money.

I just question why, when he snatches back a goal for us in a 2-0 game, he decides that the big thing is not getting back into the game..but rather...telling MLSE he wants more money.

BTW...weren't we playing "preki ball" early in the season when DeRo scored his other goals?

So when DeRo scores it's because he's a superstar..and when he plays like shit it's Preki's fault and the schedule's fault?

Dude..you need to stop chilling with the players...especially DeRo. YOu sound like you could be his agent or a family member. It's sad.

Don't you know by now that it's only "Prekiball" when we lose?

[v00d00daddy]

Good point. In a contract dispute, I would suggest information from either side implicating the other is not overly trustworthy, as both are "interested parties".

- Scott

Exactly.

Asking DeRo to comment on how much he thinks he should make is absolutely pointless. How can you take any of what either side is saying at face value?

THere are two sides to every story and the truth is almost always in between.

[Shakes McQueen]

I think DeRo's stats and play shouldn't even enter into this discussion, as I mentioned before. DeRo could score zero goals all year, and I would expect MLSE to pay him what his contract says he is to be paid. And that's the point.

If players wanted to be paid purely according to results, they could all sign 100% performance goal-based deals, with no base salary. But they don't. They want a raise when they play well, and they want the security of their binding contract when they don't. And that's why I hate this shit.

- Scott

[jloome]

I don't think DeRo has a low football IQ, I think he lacks confidence in most of his teammates and as a result tries to do too much himself. I kinda don't blame him.

I'd say he has an average at best football IQ. He never has been the smartest player out there. But his technical ability has generally made up for it.

This is a gambit. He's 32 and nearing the end of his career and may be gambling that MLSE isn't willing to potentially lose or have a tiff with the favourite player, what with the season ticket situation looking far less confident than past years and the team rebuilding its management.

I think this is a mistake, personally. He's near the max a non-DP can get, and though they'll likely drop Mista, I can't see the investment purpose in giving more money to DeRosario than he makes right now.

I sincerely believe we could replace him for less. It wouldn't be easy, but $443,000 is a lot of dough at this level and he should be happy to be getting it.

I don't believe at his age he'll get DP money from anyone else and this is probably the best time, in terms of MLSE being vulnerable and him having leverage, to take his last shot at it. So I can't say I'm surprised. But the timing is crass, given the team's recent performances and the impending lack of playoffs.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'd say he has an average at best football IQ. He never has been the smartest player out there. But his technical ability has generally made up for it.

This is a gambit. He's 32 and nearing the end of his career and may be gambling that MLSE isn't willing to potentially lose or have a tiff with the favourite player, what with the season ticket situation looking far less confident than past years and the team rebuilding its management.

I think this is a mistake, personally. He's near the max a non-DP can get, and though they'll likely drop Mista, I can't see the investment purpose in giving more money to DeRosario than he makes right now.

I sincerely believe we could replace him for less. It wouldn't be easy, but $443,000 is a lot of dough at this level and he should be happy to be getting it.

I don't believe at his age he'll get DP money from anyone else and this is probably the best time, in terms of MLSE being vulnerable and him having leverage, to take his last shot at it. So I can't say I'm surprised. But the timing is crass, given the team's recent performances and the impending lack of playoffs.

Your opinion mirrors my own, jloome. By the time his deal is done, he will be 34. Do we really want to commit MORE money on an even longer deal, for a guy who will be 34 at the end of the deal he already signed?

It'll be interesting to see how MLSE decide to proceed.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

So when DeRo scores it's because he's a superstar..and when he plays like shit it's Preki's fault and the schedule's fault?



I will answer this one final question because this one I can answer without feeling I am revealing confidential info.

I believe it was in another thread where you raised the same point and someone correctly pointed out to you the flaw in your logic. Every MLS season for TFC starts out the same way. New team. New coach. New players. New style. Preki's methods were having an impact at the beginning because teams were still learning to adjust. Once teams adjusted, Preki did not change his ways and his methods were no longer making an impact. Plain and simple.

In fact, what happened is that teams focused almost exclusively on DeRo. One player in fact, in one of Toronto's frustrating defeats, mockingly directed himself at his fellow teammates while covering DeRo "Hey guys, all we have to do is double-up on DeRo and we've got this game in the bag". Do you have any idea how frustrating that must be? I would've taken a red on that one.

So you want to know where DeRo was in those months? Stuck in Preki's system where teams were coming in here and only had their sights on shutting down DeRo because this team had no threats anywhere else whatsoever. That's where. And the funny thing is that a competent coach would have picked up on that and used that to the team's advantage. Preki never did. But of course, you sit here and mockingly ask where DeRo was? Working his ass off while Preki scratched his head and his balls wondering what to do.

Now I hope you stop asking that question because it's getting tiresome, especially when the answer was staring at you in the face. Preki's system sucked. His coaching sucked. He wasn't going to make TFC into anything. Preki's uninspired tactics and strategy led to the team's poor record and it wasn't going to get any better but instead you focus on DeRo, not on the dozen or other people that should have also stepped up, including the coach. Everyone points to the great start in the season and yet it's easily explained away as a convenient result of changes in the way TFC played and once that "newness" wore out, so did it's effectiveness. Is it a coincidence that Preki is gone and DeRo finds his scoring touch?

But of course, you went into a whole conspiracy theory about how DeRo and JDG pushed out Preki and that there is a country-club atmosphere in the locker room and whatever else nonsense I read. The plain fact is Preki lost the locker room. He lost the confidence of his coaching staff and that is why he was gone. And those 2 lost months fall entirely on his shoulders despite your efforts to continuously lay them on DeRos.

[v00d00daddy]

I will answer this one final question because this one I can answer without feeling I am revealing confidential info.

I believe it was in another thread where you raised the same point and someone correctly pointed out to you the flaw in your logic. Every MLS season for TFC starts out the same way. New team. New coach. New players. New style. Preki's methods were having an impact at the beginning because teams were still learning to adjust. Once teams adjusted, Preki did not change his ways and his methods were no longer making an impact. Plain and simple.

In fact, what happened is that teams focused almost exclusively on DeRo. One player in fact, in one of Toronto's frustrating defeats, mockingly directed himself at his fellow teammates while covering DeRo "Hey guys, all we have to do is double-up on DeRo and we've got this game in the bag". Do you have any idea how frustrating that must be? I would've taken a red on that one.

So you want to know where DeRo was in those months? Stuck in Preki's system where teams were coming in here and only had their sights on shutting down DeRo because this team had no threats anywhere else whatsoever. That's where. And the funny thing is that a competent coach would have picked up on that and used that to the team's advantage. Preki never did. But of course, you sit here and mockingly ask where DeRo was? Working his ass off while Preki scratched his head and his balls wondering what to do.

Now I hope you stop asking that question because it's getting tiresome, especially when the answer was staring at you in the face. Preki's system sucked. His coaching sucked. He wasn't going to make TFC into anything. Preki's uninspired tactics and strategy led to the team's poor record and it wasn't going to get any better but instead you focus on DeRo, not on the dozen or other people that should have also stepped up, including the coach. Everyone points to the great start in the season and yet it's easily explained away as a convenient result of changes in the way TFC played and once that "newness" wore out, so did it's effectiveness. Is it a coincidence that Preki is gone and DeRo finds his scoring touch?

But of course, you went into a whole conspiracy theory about how DeRo and JDG pushed out Preki and that there is a country-club atmosphere in the locker room and whatever else nonsense I read. The plain fact is Preki lost the locker room. He lost the confidence of his coaching staff and that is why he was gone. And those 2 lost months fall entirely on his shoulders despite your efforts to continuously lay them on DeRos.

I'm not laying TFC's shit on DeRo. I'm saying he's PART of the reason we're bad. He doesn't get absolved of anything.

The guy can do no wrong in your eyes.

Where's all the leadership talk? Where's all the captain talk? Show me another good captain in any sport who has (or would) behave that way.

[James Oliphant]

Oh I see...so De Ro is no longer being marked by multiple players? Daso's a coaching genius who's implemented an entirely new system which has resulted in....a 1-1-2 WDL record in all competitions? I mean, De Ro has scored 3 goals in the last two games, so whatever Daso's doing must be working wonders.

This will be my last post in this thread:

De Ro put himself before the team today, plain and simple. A captain NEVER does that. EVER.

[Darlofletch]

I'd say he has an average at best football IQ. He never has been the smartest player out there. But his technical ability has generally made up for it.

This is a gambit. He's 32 and nearing the end of his career and may be gambling that MLSE isn't willing to potentially lose or have a tiff with the favourite player, what with the season ticket situation looking far less confident than past years and the team rebuilding its management.

I think this is a mistake, personally. He's near the max a non-DP can get, and though they'll likely drop Mista, I can't see the investment purpose in giving more money to DeRosario than he makes right now.

I sincerely believe we could replace him for less. It wouldn't be easy, but $443,000 is a lot of dough at this level and he should be happy to be getting it.

I don't believe at his age he'll get DP money from anyone else and this is probably the best time, in terms of MLSE being vulnerable and him having leverage, to take his last shot at it. So I can't say I'm surprised. But the timing is crass, given the team's recent performances and the impending lack of playoffs.

The season ticket thing is a good point, he probably sees the fo as at their weakest right now, and thus feels he's got the most leverage as they wouldn't want any more negative publicity.

very smart business of him if that's the case, but really reflects where his priorities lay, and it's not with the team winning. and outside of the 90 minutes, fine, within the 90 minutes, as captain, his paycheque shouldn't be crossing his mind.

[Inklink]

Oh, so that's what that "celebration" was about. I thought it was more along the lines of "Don't write us off!" LOL!

Ok here's my take.

I see it from DeRo's point of view. He's been crucial to this team and so on and so on. But he's agreed on a contract. He wasn't forced to.

If he has gripes about the contract, deal with it inside.

So even if he has a point, and I don't know about what he was promised and etc. but regardless, he has a point, it doesn't need to be public. That's unprofessional.

But I can definitely see Dero's point of view. He's likely frustrated and so are we.

But keep it behind closed doors.

[jloome]

The season ticket thing is a good point, he probably sees the fo as at their weakest right now, and thus feels he's got the most leverage as they wouldn't want any more negative publicity.

very smart business of him if that's the case, but really reflects where his priorities lay, and it's not with the team winning. and outside of the 90 minutes, fine, within the 90 minutes, as captain, his paycheque shouldn't be crossing his mind.

I'd take Chris Pontius and Dejan Jakovic straight up, if D.C. were biting.

[DichioTFC]

Love DeRo. Hard to argue against him deserving more money. But still, it was unprofessional and lacked class, especially from someone in a captaincy role.

If we were winning, slightly different story. If he had just tied it up, same. Hell, if the game were over I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. But we were still down 1, game on the line, playoff lives on the line, and his concern is with getting paid.

Wasn't terribly impressed, but hard to disagree with him.

[razor787]

So it's alright for supporters to protest and air discontent about being charged more, but our top offensive player gets hated on when he makes a similar protest.

Where is the logic in that?

[Roogsy]

I'm not laying TFC's shit on DeRo. I'm saying he's PART of the reason we're bad. He doesn't get absolved of anything.

How can anyone believe this? What other player have you ragged on as much in the past month? Where are your "what was Preki doing the last couple of months" or "Why hasn't Mista scored as our DP these past couple of months" or "Why hasn't Peterson scored at all yet" posts? You want me to believe you aren't laying TFC's shortcomings at DeRo's feet but the first question out of your mouth has consistently been "where has DeRo been the past couple of months" and I have yet to see that same questions about anyone else at TFC. Not only have you no absolved him of anything, you have gone beyond and absolved everyone else through your silence.


The guy can do no wrong in your eyes.More inaccuracy from you. I have constantly griped about his offsides, they drive me nuts. And for the life of me I can't understand how he (and other players on the team) as professional footballers can air the ball so much shooting at the net. And there are others, but these are the main points I have made as criticisms of his play. But could it be that I am most defensive of him because most of all I recognize that his contributions far outweigh his shortcomings? That it drives me nuts that we can't appreciate the guy who in one season almost wiped away the total of our leading scorer in the 3 previous seasons? You guys must wonder why I defend him so vigorously and it's quite simply because I am absolutely floored that despite being by far and in every measurable way, our best player on the pitch, he is also our most criticized. It's like we want him to solve all of TFC's problems and when he doesn't, he disappoints us. He can't win with you guys. He just exceeded any reasonable expectations (again!) and we're sitting here wondering if he is worth keeping on our team. Dear lord.


Where's all the leadership talk? Where's all the captain talk? Show me another good captain in any sport who has (or would) behave that way.Good captains lead by example. His "example" was his goals in Houston. His "example" was scoring TFC's first goal in this game. His "example" has always been clutch scoring. That's the example I want other players to follow. Produce. I don't care about anything else. As long as he keeps producing, he has credibility and that is all that is needed in the locker room. People here are pointing to his gesture somehow putting himself above the team. While the gesture was undoubtedly about himself, how does it negatively affect the team that we should have to worry about how the other players will respond? He just finished scoring a goal for them! For us! Put himself above the team? His performance is for the benefit of the team! They certainly didn't seem to mind, why are we trying to find something that is not there? Is there any evidence that it upset any of the other players? I'd like to see it.

As for captains that demonstrate frustration, I would submit that most captains feel properly compensated, hence there being no need to demonstrate unhappiness. However, sports is littered with high profile athletes that speak out in various ways about their unhappiness with contracts, starting with several of the Toronto Maple Leaf captains over the last 40 years that had major run-ins with Leaf owners. This was DeRos way of speaking out. Regardless of how he did it, I would guess that you guys would have a problem with whatever way he chose to express it. Others don't. I doubt DeRo cares whether you approve the way he pressures TFC as long as he is happy with the end result. All he wants is to get paid on this team what he feels is commensurate to his performance and worth to the club. If the club feels it's ok to pay a has-been washed-up over-the-hill player 1mill, why exactly shouldn't DeRo get more than 400k? I know that in my job, if I produced more than the guy next to me but he gets compensated more, I'd be livid. And I'd probably leave the firm. I guess that's why I sympathize with his position.

You guys want him to show your definition of "class". Well that "class" doesn't pay the bills. It doesn't get him paid. He's shown plenty of class to us, the supporters, to the team and to this city. There is no harder working player on TFC (and Canada) right now, that is a fact. Whether it be on the pitch or away from the pitch. But that's not enough "class" for people. We want him to abide by some arbitrary definition of class that relies on some phony demonstrations of humility rather than being defined by real actions of passion, dedication and performance.

[Roogsy]

The odds are not in Toronto’s favour, but De Rosario, who used an expletive to describe the mood of the team after Saturday’s loss, isn’t throwing in the towel.
“No. Not me," De Rosario said. “You’re probably asking the wrong guy. I’m still going to give 100 per cent. We still go out there to play for pride and that’s pretty much it.
“That’s not to say we’re out of it. We have four games and if we can get 12 points out of four games, hopefully some teams stumble along the way and we get a win.”


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/25/sp-dero-contract.html#ixzz10cPaqrOK


Sounds to me like he's giving up isn't he?

Damn I wish that guy would give more than 100%. :rolleyes:

[twistedchinaman]

De Ro put himself before the team today, plain and simple. A captain NEVER does that. EVER.

Couldn't put it better myself.

There is absolutely zero doubt that DeRo has pulled off some stunning feats that have gotten us somewhere. That alone deserves something. DP slot, perhaps. But so blatantly asking for this, when you're on national TV, is tantamount to a temper tantrum.

There is a Chinese saying, "Taking advantage of a fire to commit robbery" (which is equivalent to "striking while the iron is hot"). And even IF it was against MLSE, it was classless. More like childish, really.

[DichioTFC]

Couldn't put it better myself.

There is absolutely zero doubt that DeRo has pulled off some stunning feats that have gotten us somewhere. That alone deserves something. DP slot, perhaps. But so blatantly asking for this, when you're on national TV, is tantamount to a temper tantrum.

There is a Chinese saying, "Taking advantage of a fire to commit robbery" (which is equivalent to "striking while the iron is hot"). And even IF it was against MLSE, it was classless. More like childish, really.

100% agree. I dont think anyone is doubting DeRo's ability or the fact that he deserves more money. But to do this, while wearing the armband (and instead of getting the ball to restart play) it truly is disappointing and like someone else wrote, it is the darkest day in TFC history.

The crest is more important than any one player. DeRo is supposed to represent that crest. It's a damn shame what he did.

IMO, give DeRo the cash that he wants. Ask him if he's happy and make sure things are on good terms with him. Strip him of the armband forever.

[Rudi]

Teams also didn't have the DP rule at all, let alone THREE DP slots to use. Teams didn't have a $40million entry fee. Beckham and Henry were only a pipedream.

Nobody did it because there was no Mista, JDG or Denilson. Complete busts that teams want to avoid.

Your argument holds no water because you are comparing one marketplace that is completly different than the other. When DeRo was MLS MVP he was also one of the top paid players IN THE LEAGUE, let alone on his team.

What does that little fact do to your argument?

Luis Hernandez. Carlos Hermosillo. Eddie Johnson. Jorge Campos. Landon Donovan. Roberto Donadoni. Freddie Adu.

Those are just some of the players that made DP-level salaries in MLS before (some well before) the DP ruling was formalized and above board in MLS.

Nearly all overlapped DeRo's playing career.

If an MLS team wanted to make him a millionaire, it would have been done a long time ago.

It's harsh, but true. You're only as good as the contract you negotiate, so perhaps DeRo thinks this latest stunt will help him in that regard.

History is not on his side, unfortunately for him.

[J .]

Yup. Nice character. Playoffs? What?

Hey, did we win today?

Didnt think so.

Take that money to the bank.

[twistedchinaman]

100% agree. I dont think anyone is doubting DeRo's ability or the fact that he deserves more money. But to do this, while wearing the armband (and instead of getting the ball to restart play) it truly is disappointing and like someone else wrote, it is the darkest day in TFC history.


It's extremely disappointing. He may be the talisman of this team, but he forgets that he is also a leader, which means setting an example.

Setting an example is NOT just getting the goals. It is also recognizing the achievements of others, spreading the work around, and realizing that there are ELEVEN people that is playing, not ONE. No matter WHAT their ability or skill level. You work with what you have, and bring up grievances with the bosses DIRECTLY. It should not matter if it's the first time or the seven millionth time.

So while DDR has class, what he fails to demonstrate is LEADERSHIP. Because to me, today smacks of something Nellie Melba would've pulled in her day. Except she can sing. And pack it in (both theatres and food, but that's a different story). And sell records. And hell, even tutored younger singers.

Dwayne de Rosario scores goals. And is a hero. And hell, deserves the cash. But does not show LEADERSHIP. It's ALL about Dwayne de Rosario. And to this, I, Twisted Chinaman, WITH GREAT PREJUDICE REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS CONDUCT from the captain of Toronto F.C.

[DichioTFC]

It's extremely disappointing. He may be the talisman of this team, but he forgets that he is also a leader, which means setting an example.

Setting an example is NOTjust getting the goals. It is also recognizing the achievements of others, spreading the work around, and realizing that there are ELEVEN people that is playing, not ONE. No matter WHAT their ability or skill level. You work with what you have, and bring up grievances with the bosses DIRECTLY. It should not matter if it's the first time or the seven millionth time.

So while DDR has class, what he fails to demonstrate is LEADERSHIP. Because to me, today smacks of something Nellie Melba would've pulled in her day. Except she can sing. And pack it in (both theatres and food, but that's a different story). And sell records. And hell, even tutored younger singers.

Dwayne de Rosario scores goals. And is a hero. And hell, deserves the cash. But does not show LEADERSHIP. It's ALL about Dwayne de Rosario. And to this, I, Twisted Chinaman, WITH GREAT PREJUDICE REFUSE TO ACCEPT THIS CONDUCT from the captain of Toronto F.C.

My question is about why he was foolish in signing a contract for 'so little.' He should have never put his name to a figure that he feel he didn't deserve. Promises of raises aside, if I sign a salary contract for minimum wage, and my performance exceeds that of my colleagues, I bring it up privately. If I do not find the negotiated terms satisfactory, I look for employment elsewhere.

Its shameful from a captain. As much as people talk smack about Jimmy B, he would never have pulled this shit. Dichio never. Robbo never. True captains.

Our most pressing need in the off-season isn't a fullback or a winger or a striker, its a captain. I don't care if its a role player that's 40+ and being paid league minimum, I want a captain that will hold himself and his teammates to a higher standard.

[Don Julio]

You're the captain of the team.

You're the captain of the team on the cusp of fucking another season down the toilet.

A captain of a team that has no real manager at the moment, nor any clear vision for the future.

In the middle of a make-or-break game.

A captain that has AT BEST questionably selfish decision making on the pitch.

And today, of all days, you're mostly worried about your pay grade?!


Makes me sad.

[twistedchinaman]

Its shameful from a captain. As much as people talk smack about Jimmy B, he would never have pulled this shit. Dichio never. Robbo never. True captains.


Thank you.

[Don Julio]

Sounds to me like he's giving up isn't he?

Damn I wish that guy would give more than 100%. :rolleyes:



Hey! look at me! I'm giving 100%!

Bullshit, first thing on his mind is his salary, and not the fact that they're losing again. Well, at least not having to play playoff games gives him a better hourly rate.

At best? Poorly timed, and the reason he should never have been captain.

At Worst? Selfish sour grapes twunt.

[twistedchinaman]

You're the captain of the team.

You're the captain of the team on the cusp of fucking another season down the toilet.

A captain of a team that has no real manager at the moment, nor any clear vision for the future.

In the middle of a make-or-break game.

A captain that has AT BEST questionably selfish decision making on the pitch.

And today, of all days, you're mostly worried about your pay grade?!


Makes me sad.

That sums up a lot of our points pretty well. At least mine anyway.

Petulance solves nothing.

[DichioTFC]

You're the captain of the team.

You're the captain of the team on the cusp of fucking another season down the toilet.

A captain of a team that has no real manager at the moment, nor any clear vision for the future.

In the middle of a make-or-break game.

A captain that has AT BEST questionably selfish decision making on the pitch.

And today, of all days, you're mostly worried about your pay grade?!


Makes me sad.

Brilliant point that I don't think anyone has brought up... *who* is he making these gestures to, exactly? Mo's replacement? Jimmy B.?

We don't have a GM, Dwayne. I wouldn't be surprised if your gesture fell on deaf ears.

[ochos]

if you compare what he brings, and what he's done for the team, the guy deserves 1 mil per year. I'm not gonna hate the man wanting the paper he deserves..

[DichioTFC]

if you compare what he brings, and what he's done for the team, the guy deserves 1 mil per year. I'm not gonna hate the man wanting the paper he deserves..

I dont think anyone has questioned whether or not he deserved it. It's more how he did it.

Imagine yourself in a corporate office. You seal a small deal. You've almost bailed the company out of their recession. You publicly demand a pay raise in front of your co-workers and shareholders. The company falls into recession. You remain adamant about your demand / gesture immediately after the company fails.

Nothing about that spells *leader* to me.

[twistedchinaman]

Imagine yourself in a corporate office. You seal a small deal. You've almost bailed the company out of their recession. You publicly demand a pay raise in front of your co-workers and shareholders. The company falls into recession. You remain adamant about your demand / gesture immediately after the company fails.

Dude...are you reading my thoughts? That's the exact analogy I was thinking of. :lol:

[DichioTFC]

Dude...are you reading my thoughts? That's the exact analogy I was thinking of. :lol:

LOL I'm glad business suits dont have names on the back.

[CretanBull]

My question is about why he was foolish in signing a contract for 'so little.' He should have never put his name to a figure that he feel he didn't deserve.

He was left with little choice. Mo made him promises to convince him to leave Houston. DeRo requested a trade to Toronto and got it. Then he found out that Mo couldn't deliver on his promises. At that point what were his options? He couldn't go back to Houston, he couldn't very well demand that Toronto immediately trade his rights after all the fan-fare about "DeRo coming home", he was essentially forced to sign with TFC on their terms. Remember all the BS excuses that we were fed during the time after the trade but before the contract annoucement that was made? The reason it took so long is because DeRo and his camp were suddenly told that they weren't going to get what they were promised - talk about getting off on the wrong foot. In the end, (presumably) DeRo signed the best contract available to him, but it was not what he was promised so obviously there's some lingering hard feelings there. No doubt that resentment has been turned up a few notches when players have come in after him, signed for much more and done much less.

I don't care for how he expressed his anger during the game, but I understand and support his position 100%

[twistedchinaman]

LOL I'm glad business suits dont have names on the back.

That would just be a fashion faux-pas...Tim Gunn would have an aneurysm.

ANYWAY...the correct literal translation of my Chinese saying (趁火打劫) is "plundering a burning house" which metaphorically translates to "stirring up trouble to serve one's needs", which is exactly what DeRo was attempting.

And for those of you who thinks it's wrong that I'm comparing Dwayne de Rosario with a turn-of-the-century Australian opera star -- deal with it.

[DichioTFC]

ANYWAY...the correct literal translation of my Chinese saying (趁火打劫) is "plundering a burning house" which metaphorically translates to "stirring up trouble to serve one's needs", which is exactly what DeRo was attempting.


Reading it in Chinese makes it much more clear :D

Btw, DeRo? Self-serving? I would *love* to see someone, anyone, claim that he isn't after this stunt.

[twistedchinaman]

Reading it in Chinese makes it much more clear :D

Oh now you're just being cheeky. :lol:

[DichioTFC]

He was left with little choice. Mo made him promises to convince him to leave Houston. DeRo requested a trade to Toronto and got it. Then he found out that Mo couldn't deliver on his promises. At that point what were his options? He couldn't go back to Houston, he couldn't very well demand that Toronto immediately trade his rights after all the fan-fare about "DeRo coming home", he was essentially forced to sign with TFC on their terms.

That's what I don't agree with, the *little choice* aspect. If the money was an issue, why not sign a one-year deal? He is the MLS player of the decade, and obviously in his prime. On the free market he could've gotten a satisfactory salary. I want DeRo here as much as the next guy, but if money is that important to him and the club is not willing to offer it to him, then find someone who will. I'll agree that Mo probably screwed the pooch, but I find it hard to believe that DeRo is a complete victim in all this.

Demanding a trade while in Houston, (presumably) leading a revolt resulting in Preki's termination, talking openly negative about the former coach the moment after his termination, (presumably) being upset with his salary for months if not years, (presumably) being involved in the Canada-America locker room beef at the end of last season (tussle with Cronin today was *very* telling), getting the armband then acting a fool... at what point does character matter? It's great that he scores goals and is the team workhorse, but face of the franchise? Not any more.

[twistedchinaman]

Demanding a trade while in Houston, (presumably) leading a revolt resulting in Preki's termination, talking openly negative about the former coach the moment after his termination, (presumably) being upset with his salary for months if not years, (presumably) being involved in the Canada-America locker room beef at the end of last season (tussle with Cronin today was *very* telling), getting the armband then acting a fool... at what point does character matter? It's great that he scores goals and is the team workhorse, but face of the franchise? Not any more.

All conduct unbecoming of a leader, just like the rationale of the yellow card he received today.

[DichioTFC]

All conduct unbecoming of a leader, just like the rationale of the yellow card he received today.

The yellow to me is justified (and should've gone to Cronin for some douchebag maneuvers), but this talk about DeRo being a leader makes me wonder if he took the captain's armband because of a pay incentive. Or if he demanded it. Because sure as hell it wasn't his professionalism.

[twistedchinaman]

The yellow to me is justified (and should've gone to Cronin for some douchebag maneuvers), but this talk about DeRo being a leader makes me wonder if he took the captain's armband because of a pay incentive. Or if he demanded it. Because sure as hell it wasn't his professionalism.

It does seem like a lot of the time what DeRo wants is what DeRo gets. And unfortunately, unlike Nellie Melba, he's not the harbinger of team success. And unlike being an opera star (which could rake it in just on star power alone), being a footy captain means making sure the entire team is a success on the field. And sadly, this ain't Hollywood or Covent Gardens in 1920.

[DichioTFC]

It does seem like a lot of the time what DeRo wants is what DeRo gets. And unfortunately, unlike Nellie Melba, he's not the harbinger of team success. And unlike being an opera star (which could rake it in just on star power alone), being a footy captain means making sure the entire team is a success on the field. And sadly, this ain't Hollywood or Covent Gardens in 1920.

You're all about Nellie Melba tonight! I had to Google her ass to find out who she is!!

I bet she would do a better job with the armband than DeRo... Did she ever make a cheque-signing gesture while on stage?

[twistedchinaman]

You're all about Nellie Melba tonight! I had to Google her ass to find out who she is!!

I bet she would do a better job with the armband than DeRo... Did she ever make a cheque-signing gesture while on stage?

It's probably the most apt analogy I could come up with...and she did elbow a few male co-stars out of the way during curtain calls, but there are no records of her singing "I want more money!!!!!" on stage.

[CretanBull]

That's what I don't agree with, the *little choice* aspect. If the money was an issue, why not sign a one-year deal?

The other things that I've said I know for fact. I can only speculate to answer this question, but its possible that MLSE weren't willing to offer a 1 year deal. Once he requested his trade to Toronto, his negotiating leverage pretty much disappeared. Maybe he thought that if the money per year that he thought he would be getting wasn't there the next best thing was getting the money spread over time. Maybe Mo promised him to re-negotiate the terms of a long term deal if/when the league's economic situation changed. Maybe MLSE just played hard ball and said "we want 4 years, take it or leave it - its that or you can sit out". Ultimately we can't answer this question, the only thing that we can be sure about is regardless of how it played out DeRo hasn't been happy with his contract from day one. If he holds Mo responsible for that, he probably feels that with Mo gone he'll finally get what (I think we all agree) he deserves.

Like I said, I don't care for how he made a public guesture about it - and he's got a little egg on his face after making an issue of how he delivers...and the we lose the game - but I understand where he's coming from.

In a half of a season, Mista makes more as a sub than DeRo makes in a full year as our primary player. People can talk all they want about honouring contracts etc. but when the contract was signed under some form of duress and then someone comes in after him and gets paid double to do about 20% of what he does you can't tell me that you'd feel any different if you were in his shoes.

We know what its like to get fucked by MLSE, so I find it easy to sympathize with DeRo.

[twistedchinaman]

It's easy to rail on the ownership, yes...but does their actions warrant stooping to their level? Will what he did today make the ownership more receptive to his words?

It's a fine line, and sadly DeRo crossed it today. And if he pulled that same stunt in the corporate world (like you and me), he'd be on the next train to EI-ville.

[DichioTFC]

The other things that I've said I know for fact. I can only speculate to answer this question, but its possible that MLSE weren't willing to offer a 1 year deal. Once he requested his trade to Toronto, his negotiating leverage pretty much disappeared. Maybe he thought that if the money per year that he thought he would be getting wasn't there the next best thing was getting the money spread over time. Maybe Mo promised him to re-negotiate the terms of a long term deal if/when the league's economic situation changed. Maybe MLSE just played hard ball and said "we want 4 years, take it or leave it - its that or you can sit out". Ultimately we can't answer this question, the only thing that we can be sure about is regardless of how it played out DeRo hasn't been happy with his contract from day one. If he holds Mo responsible for that, he probably feels that with Mo gone he'll finally get what (I think we all agree) he deserves.


Being presumptuous as well, I think that's the main thing. I'm assuming DeRo felt he could make the most amount of money possible with a 4 year deal, not knowing that MLSE was willing to overpay for other guys.

We'll never know what was being discussed during contract negotiations, but one can only assume that DeRo had flexibility with number of contractual years, as most sports athletes do.

I chalk up DeRo's situation to poor negotiations, which he is ultimately responsible.

[CretanBull]

^At the end of the day, we just don't know. But given MLSE's history, I find it much easier to side with DeRo.

[denime]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/primary_image-620x350/image_nodes/2010/09/dero_1.jpg


And I thought it was all about the passion to play soccer in your home town.:D

[kaos197O]

While some may feel that Dero lacked some class yesterday, unfortunately, in the real world, sometimes we have to stand up and make a statement when our concerns are being ignored. There is more to the story here than meets the eye and I for one would rather see a cheque signing goal celebration than to see a guy quit. Dero could easily have gone the route of continually underperforming, or played the "I'll give you what you've given me" card, until things change but has chosen to play hard and fight till the end.

Dero did what he did yesterday and like it or hate it, he felt it NECESSARY and this is the truly sad part of the story! With all that people know here of MLSE and the shady dealings of MOJO it is saddening to see that some are unable to forgive or even understand a public display of frustration by a player that has done so much for this club. No he's not the best player in the world and perhaps not even the best player this club has seen, but he has been, still is, and will continue to be, an important figure in it.

Too bad it had to come to this!

[Mikey]

If he wants to be in the playoffs next year he needs to negociate his way out of this dead end club. This is no way for one of the best MLS players ever to end his career.

[swan]

While some may feel that Dero lacked some class yesterday, unfortunately, in the real world, sometimes we have to stand up and make a statement when our concerns are being ignored. There is more to the story here than meets the eye and I for one would rather see a cheque signing goal celebration than to see a guy quit. Dero could easily have gone the route of continually underperforming, or played the "I'll give you what you've given me" card, until things change but has chosen to play hard and fight till the end.

Dero did what he did yesterday and like it or hate it, he felt it NECESSARY and this is the truly sad part of the story! With all that people know here of MLSE and the shady dealings of MOJO it is saddening to see that some are unable to forgive or even understand a public display of frustration by a player that has done so much for this club. No he's not the best player in the world and perhaps not even the best player this club has seen, but he has been, still is, and will continue to be, an important figure in it.

Too bad it had to come to this!


+1...

[prizby]

If you only knew the whole story. Sadly, you only see a highly-paid player with a gripe against his management and can't see past that. By the same token, I suppose we are all greedy consumers who demand too much for the very little we pay for each game. :D

clearly we don't know the whole story, so indulge us


And you left out the part where you don't know the whole story.

what STORY????

[ArmenJBX]

This entire thread had truly been an interesting read.

De Rosario certainly deserves more money, however, the mannerism in which he asks for it is perhaps inappropriate based on other circumstances going on simultaneously, namely a playoff push and having no GM. I believe that opening a DP contract with him lessens the cap hit he takes, so perhaps it's not a horrible idea.

As for being captain of Toronto FC, I would say that De Rosario is still the best man for the job, but Nick Garcia and Adrian Cann are right there too. De Rosario is a very different kind of captain, comparable to Ronaldo of Portugal

I hope he gets what he wants. Roogsy is right in saying he deserves it. He should have dealt with it privately, but regardless, he definitely has earned it.

[Cashcleaner]

De Rosario is the only person in this entire organization who has lived up to expectations. He is the only person who has made substantive contributions on the pitch. He is the only player who has ever come through in the clutch.

I think its more of a statement against JDG and Mista.

Nobody does as much for this team as DeRo does and he deserves to be compensated thusly.

When we first picked up DeRo, I argued that he wasn't DP material. Now, after TFC's signing of JDG and Mista, I'm of the opinion that out of the three of them, he's the most deserving of DP status (and money).

The guy just brings it on a more consistent basis.

[Kaz]

I think DeRo should be made a DP only because he deserves what he is getting (relatively speaking) but it frees up more room for others.

But if they don't I have some geek speak for DeRo who makes more then 90 of Canadians and even most MLSers.

quit and give your gold to me or quit QQ

[ArmenJBX]

Also, if I were the best player on the team, I'd want my club to give me a raise an shouldn't have to chase one. It looks like Mo called MLS and was told De Rosario doesn't qualify for DP, and used that as an opprotunuty to deny De Rosario, instead of fighting for him and getting it. I'd want my team to challenge that rule and at least fight and try to get me DP instead of saying "tough shit"

[prizby]

Good captains lead by example. His "example" was his goals in Houston.

good to know, when i want a new contract, ill make gestures too

where were the goals between May 29 and August 3???

2 goals between May 29 and September 15.

great example

[Brooker]

Dero deserves more? funny I've been thinking the same thing for 4 years now......

let year 5 commence!

[BakaGaijin]

I don't think DeRo has a low football IQ, I think he lacks confidence in most of his teammates and as a result tries to do too much himself. I kinda don't blame him.

This is not true. He played the same way in Houston with better players.

Does everyone think Houston traded Dero because they wanted to be nice to us?!? LOL.

[BakaGaijin]

TFC needs to get rid of Dero. Sure, they overpaid DeGuzman, overpaid Mista, but three wrongs don't make a right. No need to overpay Dero.

If they renegotiate and give him more money it sets a horrible precident.

[Nuvinho]

Who would of ever thought that the biggest headache for MLSE would be Toronto FC? It was their cash cow with no problems 2 years ago.

[tfc2008]

Whitout DP and Frei we had this season 12points

[bigtfcfan]

I still can't get over this. When the captain does this what example does it set for the rest of the team? Next thing we'll see is Nana going through making an amazing tackle and when he comes up starts to motion that he deserves to get paid more???

[Still Kicking]

Remember Toronto FC is a team that is auditioning right now for a future GM.
DeRo forgot that timing is everything- he took his (perhaps) legit beef and threw it on the deck of a sinking ship.
New GM could be thinking...
Mista to be sent packing and JDG to go on a transfer this January- that makes the "paid badly in comparison" arguement vanish.
Does DeRo make those around him better? New GM will want his players coming in to be enhanced by a captain, not scorned and certainly not given the "compared to DeRo" salary vs effort test.
I figure new GM worth his salt will have two demands- complete roster and salary control(=goodbye DeRo) and direct access to MLSE board(=goodbye Tom Anselmi).
Otherwise new GM is coming in with his hands tied- unless DeRo is going to be player/GM.

[FluSH]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/primary_image-620x350/image_nodes/2010/09/dero_1.jpg


And I thought it was all about the passion to play soccer in your home town.:D

You can also say... I thought my hometown would treat me like Family... and then we treat Mista better by giving him more $$$

[CretanBull]

This is not true. He played the same way in Houston with better players.

Does everyone think Houston traded Dero because they wanted to be nice to us?!? LOL.


Not to the same extent - and they won in Houston, with DeRo leading the way.

Houston dealt him because they had to give Stuart Holden playing time. His high salary because an acceptable loss with Holden waiting in the wings. They did DeRo - not us - a favour in trading him here. Do you honestly think that the most they could get for him was the package that we sent there way? Obviously not...it was a 'thank-you' to DeRo for what he'd done for them (coupled with their own interests etc.)

[Wull]

Love DeRo. Hard to argue against him deserving more money. But still, it was unprofessional and lacked class, especially from someone in a captaincy role.

If we were winning, slightly different story. If he had just tied it up, same. Hell, if the game were over I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. But we were still down 1, game on the line, playoff lives on the line, and his concern is with getting paid.

Wasn't terribly impressed, but hard to disagree with him.

THIS ^^^ Piss-poor timing when we're in the middle of such a crucial run of games

Also, jdg was shit again today and they only woke up when the booing started

[ua-kozak_TFC]

regardless whether it was good timing or not... You need to empathize with dero. The dude has a better scoring percentage in his career with TFC. The leading goal scorer. He deserve to be payed as such... regardles whether he was came from abroad or MLS. I would feel frustrated too... if MLSE was throwing away crazy money at mista and JDG and you get payed for a fraction of the cost...

One thing that you cannot argue that he was the most impactful player on the pitch since he came to toronto. He should be payed us such.

[Wull]

100% agree. I dont think anyone is doubting DeRo's ability or the fact that he deserves more money. But to do this, while wearing the armband (and instead of getting the ball to restart play) it truly is disappointing and like someone else wrote, it is the darkest day in TFC history.

The crest is more important than any one player. DeRo is supposed to represent that crest. It's a damn shame what he did.

IMO, give DeRo the cash that he wants. Ask him if he's happy and make sure things are on good terms with him. Strip him of the armband forever.

You're on a roll with this topic!!

[Razcle]

I would take Buddle over Dero any day of the week.


WOW! Maybe you should stick with the EPL, because you have no MLS knowledge with a comment like that.:picard:

[kaos197O]

I still can't get over this. When the captain does this what example does it set for the rest of the team? Next thing we'll see is Nana going through making an amazing tackle and when he comes up starts to motion that he deserves to get paid more???
Nana, while good and still improving, has under no circumstances proven himself to the extent that Dero has. Perhaps over time that will change with continuous solid performances. He IMO is worth anywhere from $60 to $100k and I believe would be happy to take that. He is also at the end of his contract and will be able to negotiate this off season with his new representative from overseas. Yes, he dumped Barry Mclean! You cannot compare the 2, not even remotely.

Again, there is more to this story people. Dero is a stand up guy and, I reiterate, felt it Necessary, to proceed with his grievances in this manner. It's a bloody shame and just proves further that the problems go deeper than MO and PREKI but include those money grubbing sacks known as MLSE!

[Razcle]

^ Fully agree. It's too bad it came to this.

[Wull]

and Cronin was the only one who should have been booked, he was deliberately holding up the restart and provoking an altercation (smart but worthy of a yellow, DeRo wasn't)

[Waggy]

Having slept on it, and thought about the whole situation sober, my opinion hasn't changed. Dichio and Twistedchinaman have said what I think basically (thanks for reading MY mind guys). But the part that REALLY gets me? Where were these balls of Dero to protest like that when Mo and Preki were still here? If his point is Mo made promises he didn't keep, why wait until after Mo is fired to protest? Where was this a month ago when it could have been enough to fire Mo? I was harsh saying in the post game thread that I would support Dero as long as he's a red but that I don't like him, I don't think I was harsh in saying I won't be able to respect him. The man shouldn't have the armband, plain and simple. A captains mentality is not Me>TFC, or Me>other players. That's just not leadership, and I don't think that represents the values that we as fans and as a community hold.

[BakaGaijin]

Not to the same extent - and they won in Houston, with DeRo leading the way.

Houston dealt him because they had to give Stuart Holden playing time. His high salary because an acceptable loss with Holden waiting in the wings. They did DeRo - not us - a favour in trading him here. Do you honestly think that the most they could get for him was the package that we sent there way? Obviously not...it was a 'thank-you' to DeRo for what he'd done for them (coupled with their own interests etc.)


I could also add that Dero plays the same selfish style for the CMNT as well.

[ag futbol]

I don`t even know what to day about what we saw yesterday, other than we may have seen the end of someone I would have wanted on the team next year. You simply can`t pull shit like that.

The way this guy plays on the field is beyond reprise. But his attitude needs to be kept in ``cheque`` **zing!**

[Mango Kid]

I don't care who a guy is, if that's how you act during a freaking game we have to win and you're losing in, that is the epitome of selfish. Get his ass out of town if he wants to put that kind of display on as our fucking CAPTAIN.

[ArmenJBX]

Regardless, obviously promises were made that weren't kept.

De Rosario deserves that money more then de Guzman.

I look at it 2 ways. Right now, you keep the current squad and fix the obvious issues with money, pay the players according to performance. That means the highest paid players are Cann, Frei, Nana and De Rosario. Get rid of DP's we don't need like Mista and de Guzman, who obviously can't handle the league or this team, and give one DP spot to De Rosario who does. Keep him happy. You then hand the captains band over to Adrian Cann or Nick Garcia, because De Rosario is not a captain, the same way Cristiano Ronaldo shouldn't be the captain of Portugal. You don't hand the band to the biggest ego, it just doesn't work.

Or, New GM comes in with a plan, he throws the entire team out and signs 22-24 brand new players. It's got to be one way or the other. Right now, this team is ready to pop, so the pressure needs to be relieved and the financials have to be sorted out. Otherwise, Toronto FC's poor management will become too big a burden to just play off.

[flatpicker]

I think some of you are overreacting to the situation.

We fans feel like we are not getting fair return from MLSE for what we give them.
So we make banners and shout some chants to show our displeasure.
- And we are justified for doing so.

DeRo feels like he is not getting fair return from MLSE for what he gives them.
So he makes one gesture to show his displeasure.
- But he is unprofessional and should be run out of town?

He's the best player we have ever had, yet he's the third highest paid player right now?
Does he deserve more money? - perhaps a bit more.

The way I see it, the best player should be getting the most money.
So this is more of an issue about Mista and DeGuz.
They should not be earning what they are.
If DeGuz doesn't take a pay cut next season, then he needs to be shipped out.
Same with Mista... that said, I actually like Mista and I hope he will stay here for less money,
Just as long as he actually gets playing time!

[AL-MO]

I don't care who a guy is, if that's how you act during a freaking game we have to win and you're losing in, that is the epitome of selfish. Get his ass out of town if he wants to put that kind of display on as our fucking CAPTAIN.

I can't help but feel the same.

[Chevy]

Does anyone have hard evidence of what these alleged promises were?

I find it realy hard to believe that DeRo wouldn't publicly and emphatically announce what those promises were and how he was screwed over. Particularly now that Mo is gone.

[flatpicker]

I don't care who a guy is, if that's how you act during a freaking game we have to win and you're losing in, that is the epitome of selfish. Get his ass out of town if he wants to put that kind of display on as our fucking CAPTAIN.


I can't help but feel the same.


Please... just look at how frustrated we are over MLSE's bullshit.
Now imagine working for them and having to face the same bullshit 24/7
DeRo probably shouldn't have done what he did, but I'm not going to flame him for it.

[Mango Kid]

I think some of you are overreacting to the situation.

We fans feel like we are not getting fair return from MLSE for what we give them.
So we make banners and shout some chants to show our displeasure.
- And we are justified for doing so.

DeRo feels like he is not getting fair return from MLSE for what he gives them.
So he makes one gesture to show his displeasure.
- But he is unprofessional and should be run out of town?

He's the best player we have ever had, yet he's the third highest paid player right now?
Does he deserve more money? - perhaps a bit more.

The way I see it, the best player should be getting the most money.
So this is more of an issue about Mista and DeGuz.
They should not be earning what they are.
If DeGuz doesn't take a pay cut next season, then he needs to be shipped out.
Same with Mista... that said, I actually like Mista and I hope he will stay here for less money,
Just as long as he actually gets playing time!

You make some good points there, but as our captain, he has to be about the team first and only. Did that act help or hurt the team? There's only one answer to that.