Post Match: TFC 2 San Jose 3

[TFC USA]

I sense maybe 14,000 showing up at BMO in our home finale.

The only purpose of this season now is to beat the KKKrew so they don't win the Supporter's Shield.

Same shit every year, they never win when it matters. The only thing that pleased me is they didn't quit. Other than that the Mo era needs to be wiped clean, and I mean fucking spotless. We need a fresh start with competent people and a coach who isn't egotistical and players who offer a first touch and have a fucking semblance of speed.

Thanks for nothing again, TFC. Raping my dreams since 2007.

[Batman]

the party's over.

[justin]

i'm kind of glad to be honest. this team needs to be blown up and rebuilt imo. if they made the playoffs it would just be fuel on the fire, as ticket renewals would get a shot in the arm and end up justifying the price increase.

[Cashcleaner]

That's all she wrote. 2010 post-season is toast.

[TFC USA]

Fuck them all.

I'd rather they sign 10 strangers and Stefan Frei than continue with this squad.

Thanks Mo. You seriously damaged this team.

[twistedchinaman]

I've hoped and hoped for FOUR seasons.
I've followed this team from season one.
Traveled to their games out West.
AND THIS IS THE EFFORT THEY PUT IN WHEN THE CHIPS ARE DOWN?
FUCK THIS.

AND FUCK YOU, MO JOHNSTON, YOU USELESS PIECE OF SHIT.

Even a fucking feng shui master can't fix this shit.

[jloome]

Man, that hurts, watching Sam Cronin in a San Jose jersey, all happy after we lost.

C'mooooon, offseason. At least maybe the next coach'll have enough sense to sign some fucking players in the offseason, instead of waiting until training camp and putting us a month behind.

[Nuvinho]

Hat's off to San Jose. You showed up for the entire game.

I will say it again, we should of kept Cronin. Not that he would of helped, but he is a character guy and has more heart than some DP player who played in La Liga.

Chad looked so dejected.

[Alixir]

I'm to pissed to comment on this game.

[rocker]

ugh...

[TFC USA]

Yeah, no doubt the Union is better than us.

I think they could take of in a best-of-5. We might be one of if not the worst expansion teams in the new MLS era. Chivas USA are probably the only comparable expansion team as far as suck goes.

[ArmenJBX]

Indeed it is.

Sigh..

I liked what we had this season, we looked like we were on the right path, but something happened. Anyways, this was a good year to fix huge problems from last years squad, namely goal scorers and defense. We have a strong D now, or stronger at least, and Maicon Santos and Chad Barrett can score goals, along with De Rosario.

Next year is about finding 2 solid midfielders. I'm talking about real central midfielders. Right now, we can't rely on de Guzman; he just can't handle it, and I do agree with jloome's comments in the game thread, whose assessment was probably more correct. de Guzman can't handle the pressure, we need another player beside him who can.

Mista needs to stay as well, and wingers are really needed. Jacob Peterson is developing into a decent option, and I see a lot of the old Barrett in him in that he's slowly but surely getting better and better. The likes of Joseph Nane will no longer cut it; these are not MLS Caliber players. All positions except maybe goalkeeper needs to be reinforced with solid players like Cann and Harden, and those players cannot be idolized. Gargan may be good but he's a bit player at best in any other club.

Lastly, Toronto FC has to have a clear goal for next season. Playoffs. Not CCL, not Nutrilite, Playoffs. Those competitions should come later. Play the academy in those games.

[twistedchinaman]

Hat's off to San Jose. You showed up for the entire game.

I will say it again, we should of kept Cronin. Not that he would of helped, but he is a character guy and has more heart than some DP player who played in La Liga.

Chad looked so dejected.

Mista was doing all he can IMO, but was he the right person? Possibly...if we actually had people who can and will pass to him.

Now of course, Mista is gone and we're starting ALL OVER AGAIN. I've tried to be as hopeful as I can. But...god, I just want to cry. I do.

[Nuvinho]

We have Raivis Useless-vics til the end of 2011

[sulfur]

Man, that hurts, watching Sam Cronin in a San Jose jersey, all happy after we lost.
After the last whistle, he went straight over to Barrett and asked for his shirt.

Barrett.

[rocker]

Jacob Peterson is developing into a decent option, .

really? I still don't see it. He can cross a ball occasionally, but beyond that, I just don't see it. Also, he's making pretty good coin for the lack of success (over 100K).

[twistedchinaman]

Yeah, no doubt the Union is better than us.

I think they could take of in a best-of-5. We might be one of if not the worst expansion teams in the new MLS era. Chivas USA are probably the only comparable expansion team as far as suck goes.

And even then Chivas has made the playoffs.

[twistedchinaman]

really? I still don't see it. He can cross a ball occasionally, but beyond that, I just don't see it. Also, he's making pretty good coin for the lack of success (over 100K).

+1.

Harden I could give him some rope due to the longstanding injury. But even then that's only a little.

[Alixir]

We have Raivis Useless-vics til the end of 2011is he related to Juseless DeGuzman?

[ArmenJBX]

really? I still don't see it. He can cross a ball occasionally, but beyond that, I just don't see it. Also, he's making pretty good coin for the lack of success (over 100K).

It's little things that he does, that Barrett did, and that every developing player I've seen has exhibited.

It's this drive and hunger, the kind that Neymar and Tommy Mueller have for example. It's slowly but surely getting better and better.

I also have a bit of a background having followed him for a bit during his time with Colorado, where he was a much better player imo. If we can get that old Peterson, we have a decent, not great, not starting quality, but decent option.

[Nuvinho]

Mista was doing all he can IMO, but was he the right person? Possibly...if we actually had people who can and will pass to him.

Now of course, Mista is gone and we're starting ALL OVER AGAIN. I've tried to be as hopeful as I can. But...god, I just want to cry. I do.

hahaha...what is funny, I was talking about JDG....my bad, should of been more clear.

Cronin may not have the skill as JDG, but has more heart and more passion for the game.

I would rather have Cronin than JDG controlling the midfield.

[TFCRegina]

Players I would cut from our roster in a heartbeat at this point (and why):

Ibrahim - This guy is going nowhere fast, he lacks football IQ and generally doesn't score
Joseph Nane - I'm sorry, a lot of guys liked his performance in the Champions League but the general feeling I've got from watching him is that I don't like his performances.
O'Brian White - I need not say more. If there was ever an overrated 1st Rounder, this was it.
Nick Labrocca - Supposed to come into our squad and be a player who could start and regularly deliver stuff into the box. Can't do it, so he needs to go too.
Conway - We could have a Canadian on the bench at goalkeeper and get the same productivity. Not sure what we're paying him but I'm sure a rookie Canadian goalkeeper would be cheaper, freeing cap space.
Jacob Peterson - Useless on the wing. We brought him in for width. What has he done?
Emmanuel Gomez - Haven't seen him all year due to injury. Maybe he'll be back and quality, but I doubt it. I'd prefer someone who has been getting regular minutes somewhere else.
Maxim Usanov - Anyone who has seen an Usanov defensive performance this year would agree

On the bubble:
Gabe Gala - seen less of him than Ibrahim, tougher to make a judgement, maybe with the implementation of a reserve league he'll improve...who knows. I still have hopes.
Martin Saric - Takes stupid fouls, but he's not as weak as some of the others in this lineup.
Amadou Sanyang - Makes the odd dumb play and takes stupid fouls, but I still have hopes because he shows quality that others on this team don't have at times...
Mista - Didn't really get a fair shot at TFC. With no delivery, he's basically another Ali Gerba. We need consistent wide players to make a decisive judgement on what he's actually contributing
Hscanovics - Can't really blow up the entire team...he's not nearly as bad as Usanov (although he's had bad games as evidenced by today) and we need some continuity into the next season on our back line, especially with Nana and Cann out of contract.
JDG - only at a lower salary, otherwise dump him from the roster

Who to keep:
Stefan Frei
Nana Attakora
Adrian Cann
Nick Garcia - Yeah I'd keep Garcia...who do we have to replace him?
Doneil Henry
Nicholas Lindsey
Dwayne De Rosario
Chad Barrett
Maicon Santos
Dan Gargan
Milos Kocic
Ty Harden

[rocker]

problem for Dasovic is he's using Preki's players but imposing his style... so now instead of a 0-0 tie or something, we lose 3-2.

[twistedchinaman]

I would rather have Cronin than JDG controlling the midfield.

+1,000,000,000,000,000.

JDG has NEVER inspired any confidence. GTFO and STFU, fro-head. Last thing my blood pressure needs next year is Julian de Fuckman making it shoot up the roof.

[rocker]

+1,000,000,000,000,000.

JDG has NEVER inspired any confidence. GTFO and STFU, fro-head. Last thing my blood pressure needs next year is Julian de Fuckman making it shoot up the roof.

I was hyped to get a La Liga guy, but now I don't care. If he were to leave, I just don't care.

[Nuvinho]

I used to hate Garcia. But as a wingback, he has done a decent job I must admit.

[ArmenJBX]

The kind of players TFC need are the likes of Cronin, or Tim Ward for example.
Small salary, basic job, commitment and skill. In this league, you rarely find a player who will play for little money and does what De Rosario does. It's not realistic. What TFC need to look for is less flash. They clearly want players to make fans happy, like de Guzman, when in reality a Canadian midfielder is not what the DP rule was made for.

Toronto FC need to manage their cap better. We overpay our players, but honestly, the most important thing is just to work together more. The team needs to grow.

We plant seeds, see a quick sprout and cheer, but then get pissed when it doesn't grow as quickly, so we bin the plant. Instead, the team needs time to grow properly. Starting from square one over and over will only ever get you to square two, and never to square three.

[twistedchinaman]

First off, I am sick and tired of Garcia's Jekyll and Hyde routine. There is no need for him, nothing to me justifies his presence...I don't care if we have to get a DP at CB, ABG42011 (ANYONE BUT GARCIA FOR 2011).

[Alixir]

I used to hate Garcia. But as a wingback, he has done a decent job I must admit.As much as I hate the fucker...he was one of the best on the pitch today.

[rocker]

I used to hate Garcia. But as a wingback, he has done a decent job I must admit.

I can't stand Garcia, but I'll admit he is actually decent going forward... maybe he should be a midfielder. haha.

But he left Gargan out to dry on that pass after a good defense play on Geovanni. Of course then Gargan got his hands all over convey. :(

[TFCRegina]

First off, I am sick and tired of Garcia's Jekyll and Hyde routine. There is no need for him, nothing to me justifies his presence...I don't care if we have to get a DP at CB, ABG42011 (ANYONE BUT GARCIA FOR 2011).

Garcia is still better as a fullback than Usanov and Hscanovics.

[Nuvinho]

First off, I am sick and tired of Garcia's Jekyll and Hyde routine. There is no need for him, nothing to me justifies his presence...I don't care if we have to get a DP at CB, ABG42011 (ANYONE BUT GARCIA FOR 2011).

If you had a choice......Garcia or Uselessvics or Usanov. Who would you rather have back?

He sucks less than the other two.

[TFC07]

Indeed it is.

Sigh..

I liked what we had this season, we looked like we were on the right path, but something happened. Anyways, this was a good year to fix huge problems from last years squad, namely goal scorers and defense. We have a strong D now, or stronger at least, and Maicon Santos and Chad Barrett can score goals, along with De Rosario.

Next year is about finding 2 solid midfielders. I'm talking about real central midfielders. Right now, we can't rely on de Guzman; he just can't handle it, and I do agree with jloome's comments in the game thread, whose assessment was probably more correct. de Guzman can't handle the pressure, we need another player beside him who can.

Mista needs to stay as well, and wingers are really needed. Jacob Peterson is developing into a decent option, and I see a lot of the old Barrett in him in that he's slowly but surely getting better and better. The likes of Joseph Nane will no longer cut it; these are not MLS Caliber players. All positions except maybe goalkeeper needs to be reinforced with solid players like Cann and Harden, and those players cannot be idolized. Gargan may be good but he's a bit player at best in any other club.

Lastly, Toronto FC has to have a clear goal for next season. Playoffs. Not CCL, not Nutrilite, Playoffs. Those competitions should come later. Play the academy in those games.

Are you kidding me? If anything, Nane has played better than Peterson so far this season. Did you watch today's game even? Peterson was awful. Just becuse he had couple of decent crosses today doesn't mean he can cut it. :facepalm:

Anyway, our offense sucks! Our players got to be patience offensively instead of forcing the issue (excluding when TFC were down 2 goals needed to force the issue in the end).

[adam1001]

Are you kidding me? If anything, Nane has played better than Peterson so far this season. Did you watch today's game even? Peterson was awful. Just becuse he had couple of decent crosses today doesn't mean he can cut it. :facepalm:

Anyway, our offense sucks! Our players got to be patience offensively instead of forcing the issue (excluding when TFC were down 2 goals needed to force the issue in the end).

I agree that peterson was shit. But Nane? He's shit on a whole new level.

[Alixir]

I agree that peterson was shit. But Nane? He's shit on a whole new level.
bingo

[TFC07]

I agree that peterson was shit. But Nane? He's shit on a whole new level.

Well compare those two players' performance this season (including non-league games), I say Nane has perform better than Peterson. I don't see why we need to keep him and his overpaid contract (I have been saying it since TFC got him). I am sure there are plenty of wingers out there TFC can get who are better than Peterson.

[rocker]

Nane isn't much. Occasionally he's OK, but he always does some dumb things every game. Seems awkward. Good size, but his first touch is absolutely awful. At his age, I don't think he's worth bothering with anymore.

I'd dump Peterson and Nane.

[King Jeff]

I'm left wondering why we were playing with 5 and 6 men up front and one of them wasn't our DP striker, who was playing centre back/defensive mid.

What. The. Fuck.

[ArmenJBX]

Are you kidding me? If anything, Nane has played better than Peterson so far this season. Did you watch today's game even? Peterson was awful. Just becuse he had couple of decent crosses today doesn't mean he can cut it. :facepalm:

Anyway, our offense sucks! Our players got to be patience offensively instead of forcing the issue (excluding when TFC were down 2 goals needed to force the issue in the end).

I see potential in Peterson and see none on Nane. If you don't agree, that's fine. All I know is, when you're a 4th round draft pick who was invited to the combine by the team who signed you, unwanted by others, you are not as good as the guy who played with Colorado Rapids and scored some impressive goals before a serious injury took him out for a year. I'd like you to break your leg and go back to being 100% when you return from injury.

I always said that under a competent system, Nick Garcia would not be bad, yet I got negative response. I was right. Now, I say that given some time, Peterson will be a decent option. I promise you I will again be right. You can have your verbal victories now, but when you're saying "Start Peterson, Nane is shite!" in a few months, I'll have said it months before.

[Nuvinho]

I base how shit a player is on how much he is getting paid.

Nane is less shit than Peterson, because he makes $40K

Garcia is less shit than Usanov and Uselessvics, because San Jose is paying most of his salary and the latter two are making over $100K

JDG is on a shit level on its own

[TFC07]

Nane isn't much. Occasionally he's OK, but he always does some dumb things every game. Seems awkward. Good size, but his first touch is absolutely awful. At his age, I don't think he's worth bothering with anymore.

I'd dump Peterson and Nane.

Agreed. I will pretty much dump all players we got in the off-season (excluding Cann and Harden).

BTW, what happen to LaBrocca and Sanyang?

[ArmenJBX]

Sanyang is injured I believe.

[Davenport]

Indeed it is.

Sigh..

I liked what we had this season, we looked like we were on the right path, but something happened. Anyways, this was a good year to fix huge problems from last years squad, namely goal scorers and defense. We have a strong D now, or stronger at least, and Maicon Santos and Chad Barrett can score goals, along with De Rosario.

Next year is about finding 2 solid midfielders. I'm talking about real central midfielders. Right now, we can't rely on de Guzman; he just can't handle it, and I do agree with jloome's comments in the game thread, whose assessment was probably more correct. de Guzman can't handle the pressure, we need another player beside him who can.

Mista needs to stay as well, and wingers are really needed. Jacob Peterson is developing into a decent option, and I see a lot of the old Barrett in him in that he's slowly but surely getting better and better. The likes of Joseph Nane will no longer cut it; these are not MLS Caliber players. All positions except maybe goalkeeper needs to be reinforced with solid players like Cann and Harden, and those players cannot be idolized. Gargan may be good but he's a bit player at best in any other club.

Lastly, Toronto FC has to have a clear goal for next season. Playoffs. Not CCL, not Nutrilite, Playoffs. Those competitions should come later. Play the academy in those games.

So, you're mostly happy with the team ?!
This squad wants blowing up.

[Nuvinho]

MLSE should keep ticket prices the same, and ask JDG to pay for the increase, since he has the best seat in the house and does nothing.

[deacon]

TFC's handling of Cronin is a perfect example of why they are where they are 4 years in. Get allocation $ so they can get JDG buddie Mista for 1/2 season. JDG must have told Mista what a goldmine MLSE is, and how they both can pickup some easy $. So TFC ends up with No Cronin, No Mista and No playoffs. TFC is in worse shape now then they were @ end of last season, and they have nobody to blame except themselves.

[twistedchinaman]

MLSE should keep ticket prices the same, and ask JDG to pay for the increase, since he has the best seat in the house and does nothing.

Don't you mean cut them? Any difference JDG can pay for.

[Cashcleaner]

All this talk of the current squad, but I see nobody wanting to pick-up Wondolowski, eh? :D

[TFC07]

I see potential in Peterson and see none on Nane. If you don't agree, that's fine. All I know is, when you're a 4th round draft pick who was invited to the combine by the team who signed you, unwanted by others, you are not as good as the guy who played with Colorado Rapids and scored some impressive goals before a serious injury took him out for a year. I'd like you to break your leg and go back to being 100% when you return from injury.

I always said that under a competent system, Nick Garcia would not be bad, yet I got negative response. I was right. Now, I say that given some time, Peterson will be a decent option. I promise you I will again be right. You can have your verbal victories now, but when you're saying "Start Peterson, Nane is shite!" in a few months, I'll have said it months before.

I am sure he was good player before he got hurt, but like you said, he's not 100% anymore (leg injuries are very hard to recover. The chances of hin returning to his old form isn't that great). So what's point of keeping him if he will never return from his old self? He can be replace! Garcia may had couple of decent games (including today), but he isn't solution as our LB/RB in the future. He is too slow and is only going to keep on declining.

[TFC USA]

I am sick and tired of the "who is going to replace Garcia" argument. Is there literally no one on this earth filled with 6 billion people that is capable of signing a contract to replace him? That argument holds no water and Garcia is still shitty.

No, Garcia singlehandedly cost us games earlier in the season and he does not deserved to be kept despite his improvement.

Peterson is shit.

[twistedchinaman]

Garcia is still better as a fullback than Usanov and Hscanovics.


If you had a choice......Garcia or Uselessvics or Usanov. Who would you rather have back?

He sucks less than the other two.

I'd rather not have any of the three, but if I had the choice? I'd say I wouldn't give up on Usanov that quickly.

Garcia carries too much of the Johnston/Preki baggage, and has been proven to run hot-and-cold. Hscanovics...I don't know.

[menefreghista]

TFC is in worse shape now then they were @ end of last season, and they have nobody to blame except themselves.

This falls squarely on Tom Anselmi/MLSE for hanging onto Mo Johnston for one more season.

At least if he was canned after the 5-0 NYRB game the rebuild would have had 1 year under its belt.

It is telling though how much further San Jose is in their 3rd season compared to us in our 4th. With far less resources to work with.

[TFC USA]

So, you're mostly happy with the team ?!
This squad wants blowing up.

He's blindly optimistic about this squad for some reason.

[ArmenJBX]

So, you're mostly happy with the team ?!
This squad wants blowing up.

Blow it up and you'll get the same shit again and again, barely out of playoffs but still not good enough to really deserve being there anyways.

I want improvement on what we have! 5 coaches in 4 years, revolving door, DP's who will solve our problems, are all FO moves that have FAILED.

I want to see Dasovic build on these players and sign a couple of key additions. Then I want to see Toronto FC playing some basic soccer, basic wing play, basic goals. After a couple seasons we can focus on flashiness and whatnot.

---------------------------Stefan Frei----------------------------------
--------------------------(Jon Conway)--------------------------------
---Dan Gargan-------Nana Attakora---Adrian Cann----------Left Back--
--(Right back)------(Ty Harden)-----(Center Back)-------(Nick Garcia)

This is more then capable as a defense in this league, assuming a strong LB is signed. Everything else is filler and sub roles.

[Waggy]

Some silver lining- while I (unfortunately) am not still involved with the team, and most unfortunately haven't even seen them play a game as yet, Milltown FC (the fans club) clinched a playoff birth. And looking at the CSL standings, they would open the playoffs with a home and home against Toronto Croatia which would involve a game at Lamport stadium. I don't know about anyone else but I feel like a playoff game involving a REAL club thats incredibly well managed and coached is far more worthy of my time and energy then the crap coming out of BMO.

[Davenport]

He's blindly optimistic about this squad for some reason.
Maybe he's just blind.

[twistedchinaman]

I am sick and tired of the "who is going to replace Garcia" argument. Is there literally no one on this earth filled with 6 billion people that is capable of signing a contract to replace him? That argument holds no water and Garcia is still shitty.

No, Garcia singlehandedly cost us games earlier in the season and he does not deserved to be kept despite his improvement.

Peterson is shit.

THANK YOU, BROTHER.

If it barks like a liability, talks like a liability and walks like a liability, IT IS A LIABILITY. Garcia is just that...we're too easily willing to shove his missteps under the carpet when he does good.

The man is 30 years old, and we're treating him like a rookie. He's had too many chances and have bungled almost all of them. I say Ixnay to the Arcia-Gay. Now.

[ArmenJBX]

He's blindly optimistic about this squad for some reason.

I will not stoop to your level and insult others.

However, if you believe that reassembling the entire team is the correct move, I will have to respectfully disagree.

I want to build on what we have instead of trying again, and again, and again. Clearly blowing it up doesn't work. But I'm sure trying it again will yield a better result. After all, repeating something over and over again and expecting a different result isn't insane, right?

[twistedchinaman]

This falls squarely on Tom Anselmi/MLSE for hanging onto Mo Johnston for one more season.

At least if he was canned after the 5-0 NYRB game the rebuild would have had 1 year under its belt.

It is telling though how much further San Jose is in their 3rd season compared to us in our 4th. With far less resources to work with.

Plus now they are almost home and dry at the playoff dance. We're left out dancing in the dark and cold.

[Davenport]

Blow it up and you'll get the same shit again and again, barely out of playoffs but still not good enough to really deserve being there anyways.

I want improvement on what we have! 5 coaches in 4 years, revolving door, DP's who will solve our problems, are all FO moves that have FAILED.

I want to see Dasovic build on these players and sign a couple of key additions. Then I want to see Toronto FC playing some basic soccer, basic wing play, basic goals. After a couple seasons we can focus on flashiness and whatnot.

---------------------------Stefan Frei----------------------------------
--------------------------(Jon Conway)--------------------------------
---Dan Gargan-------Nana Attakora---Adrian Cann----------Left Back--
--(Right back)------(Ty Harden)-----(Center Back)-------(Nick Garcia)

This is more then capable as a defense in this league, assuming a strong LB is signed. Everything else is filler and sub roles.
The problems at this club go way deeper than sorting out the back four.

[ArmenJBX]

The problems at this club go way deeper than sorting out the back four.

I was simply stating that as a defense, we have probably fixed what needed to be fixed. Focus must now shift to the wings and forwards.

[Davenport]

I will not stoop to your level and insult others.

However, if you believe that reassembling the entire team is the correct move, I will have to respectfully disagree.

I want to build on what we have instead of trying again, and again, and again. Clearly blowing it up doesn't work. But I'm sure trying it again will yield a better result. After all, repeating something over and over again and expecting a different result isn't insane, right?
Blowing up means getting rid of the shit and keeping important players who play in key positions. We have 2 of them.

[Davenport]

I was simply stating that as a defense, we have probably fixed what needed to be fixed. Focus must now shift to the wings and forwards.
Deeper meaning from the top....Anselmi and the muppets at MLSE.
They know fukc all about the game and until we get owners who do, they'll never appoint the right person.
Dichio may be the man in a while.

[ArmenJBX]

Blowing up means getting rid of the shit and keeping important players who play in key positions. We have 2 of them.

That's not the sentiment shared by some.

It appears we are basically on the same page, that getting rid of players we don't need and filling them with those who can do the job is a solution to our many problems.

However, there's a difference between getting rid of "shit" and building.
We have 2 key players? Which MLS team has more? This is a league where you have to work with players who aren't fantastic all the time. It's what you do with "shit" that makes the ultimate difference. Some teams utilize "shit" until, together, they're no longer "shit".

Toronto FC thrusts shit into the spotlight and expects it to smell of roses. Chad Barrett was "shit" but he no longer is. By getting rid of shit (Remember Buddle? Cunningham? they were shit) they become amazing because teams know what to do with them.


Deeper meaning from the top....Anselmi and the muppets at MLSE.
They know fukc all about the game and until we get owners who do, they'll never appoint the right person.
Dichio may be the man in a while.

I agree here. We need someone who knows what they're doing.

[Nuvinho]

Question - If Daso is handed the coach title next year (and there is a competent GM in place, who doesn't hate Canadians), do you see some Canadians who Daso knows and coached want to play for TFC?

[TFC USA]

Mo doesn't bring in enough quality players. Well....didn't.

Mo is gone and we need to get rid of the shit he brought over. I'd rather rebuild the right way than foolishly believe this team can contend.

[ArmenJBX]

Ian Hume would be cool here, same with David Edgar but that's not really realistic.

I'd rather have Hume then de Guzman as of right now.

[Waggy]

Mo doesn't bring in enough quality players. Well....didn't.

Mo is gone and we need to get rid of the shit he brought over. I'd rather rebuild the right way than foolishly believe this team can contend.


Good/great teams don't rebuild, they retool. There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater (sorry, /cliches), we have a great keeper and pretty good defense. If we could get a real striker so Dero could play attacking mid, and pick up a good wing I don't think TFC is too far away from being good. This is MLS after all, things can change fast

[Pyeddo]

Don't know if its already been mentioned already, but today I was sitting in 123 and at the start of the game Paul B. And Tom A. were standing just outside the tunnel with some other corp. flacks. When the RPB held up their "ALL FOR $1" sign (which was great btw), Paul nudged Tom and pointed it out. After whispering something into Tom's ear, both of them had a good laugh.

I just want everyone to be clear on the fact that they are laughing at our concerns and really don't give a fuck about the fans.

[TFC07]

Question - If Daso is handed the coach title next year (and there is a competent GM in place, who doesn't hate Canadians), do you see some Canadians who Daso knows and coached want to play for TFC?

I wouldn't be surprise to see Ali Gerba back. Also, I think TFC has good shot of getting Stalteri.

[ArmenJBX]

Stalteri in means no Gargan, unless one of the two take LB, which I think would be best.

Would Stalteri come here without DP though?

[Nuvinho]

I see Jazic here on a lower salary.

[lips]

For being a part of the best fans in the MLS i sure feel hopless and pissed off most of the time.

:scarf:SEASON FIVE HERE WE COME:scarf:

[BakaGaijin]

What was the deal with Dero's goal celebration?!?! It was like he telling someone to write a cheque or sign something. What was that about?!?!

[lips]

What was the deal with Dero's goal celebration?!?! It was like he telling someone to write a cheque or sign something. What was that about?!?!
Yeh he's giving someone a hint :)

[Nuvinho]

What was the deal with Dero's goal celebration?!?! It was like he telling someone to write a cheque or sign something. What was that about?!?!


JohnMolinaro (http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)

Talked to Dero after the game. He's not happy. Story to follow soon. #TFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC)

Could this be more drama?

[ArmenJBX]

He's not happy about losing most likely.

Or he was promised money for a goal today or something else like DP, and didn't get it.

[pekduck]

Back home.

The game was fairly even and TFC had more scoring chances. SJ capitalized on the fewer chances they had as they were calm when inside the box to finish.

TFC on the other hand, scored many NFL field goals. Hurried attempt when there are time and space to settle and strike clearly. Many shots were struck with incorrect technique given the situation. No need to go for power and blast it, as all of them went over the goal. Could just simply side foot them directly in at either side of the post as they have enough width of the net to score. Classic example is Peterson, edge of the 6 yards box and didn't simply side foot it in the short post but blasted it. Same with DeRo on the first 3 attempts, tried to volley and over the bar, then wide open and decided to one-time and over the bar, and tried to scissor over head it and didn't connect. He did have other good chances which executed correctly.

Santos didn't seem to be the one we saw prior to injury, less hustle and chase (could have scored 2 and connected on 2 more on the through ball play). At least he scored one finally.

Garcia decided to take a shot with one time, but he has enough time and space to settle down, and drive a low shot from midfield in during that SJ clearance. It could have been deflected or directed in by either their own D or 5 of our players inside the box as the GK hasn't fully recovered position.

Barrett did well with many decent balls into the box, created spaces and had few chances.

From what I saw, if TFC had a good coach working with finishing and scoring psychology, it may help to rectify the lack of finishing (it's not about lack of quality strikers, the finishing of the entire team collectively should be the objective).

For what it's worth, a 2-3 loss with the boys continued to push and push is better than 0-1 loss with the grinding style.

I like what Daso did with the subs, fearless and going for the tie and win by subbing in offensive players one after another. Too bad the lack of final concentration and proper finishing technique failed to get the points needed.

I won't comment on the headers as it's really hard to head the ball perfectly when in the air and getting nudged, so I'll be more lenient.

[Waggy]

Don't know if its already been mentioned already, but today I was sitting in 123 and at the start of the game Paul B. And Tom A. were standing just outside the tunnel with some other corp. flacks. When the RPB held up their "ALL FOR $1" sign (which was great btw), Paul nudged Tom and pointed it out. After whispering something into Tom's ear, both of them had a good laugh.

I just want everyone to be clear on the fact that they are laughing at our concerns and really don't give a fuck about the fans.

Thats hilarious, but I dunno if A = B here so to speak. Maybe they were laughing because the banner is legitimately funny? I highly doubt they were sitting there rubbing their hands mocking the fans a-la Mr Burns, that's just too fantastic. For all we know Paul said "Thank god they didn't draw and quarter me in a bikini on 2 sticks", or "You ever see Leafs fans come up with something like that?" or "This time I SWEAR I wont fart, just pull my finger". The evil, the wrong, the bad, it was all Mo. ALL Mo. Should Paul/Tom/whoever else is involved screw up hiring a new manager then they'll be judged accordingly, but for now they've done what they had to do (albeit at least 1 year late). What do you want them to do at this point? Buy the Galaxy and do a franchise swap like the Braves/Celtics one?

[__wowza]

NEE took a radical approach with their litter of $ signs, which i loved.
RPB's and U-Sector brought it, even when the chips were down.

two different kinds of support, but everyone stood to theirs, and ya'll need to be commended on that. our faith has yet to be rewarded, especially after today, but NO ONE could ask for a better set of supporters.

i'm just making this thread to say hats off to all.
:scarf::flare::drum:

[dupont]

If there was any bright point about today, it's that I was legitimately entertained at the game today.
It was very rare this season under Preki that I actually felt entertained by the games.

[Batman]

Could this be more drama?

just an plain old ordinary day in MLSE history. Drama every day.

[Glenchen29]

FUCK ML$E AND TOM ASSIMILEEEE.

They win in the boardroom but not in their stadiums!

[menefreghista]

Don't know if its already been mentioned already, but today I was sitting in 123 and at the start of the game Paul B. And Tom A. were standing just outside the tunnel with some other corp. flacks. When the RPB held up their "ALL FOR $1" sign (which was great btw), Paul nudged Tom and pointed it out. After whispering something into Tom's ear, both of them had a good laugh.

I just want everyone to be clear on the fact that they are laughing at our concerns and really don't give a fuck about the fans.

That sucks. But I think this has been obvious for a while.

This is what the MLSE board meeting must have looked like when season ticket prices were set:

7edeOEuXdMU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7edeOEuXdMU)

[colman1860]

I always said that under a competent system, Nick Garcia would not be bad, yet I got negative response. I was right. Now, I say that given some time, Peterson will be a decent option. I promise you I will again be right. You can have your verbal victories now, but when you're saying "Start Peterson, Nane is shite!" in a few months, I'll have said it months before.

You fail. Notice what side every single San Jose attack came from in the second half? Notice how they scored their goals? Terrible fullback play by Garcia.

And this whole "I'm smarter than all of you" attitude is really wearing thin with you.

[ArmenJBX]

He was certainly not the worst player out there.

But yes, I guess I've been a bit over the top. I apologize to anyone who I annoyed. I'll tone it down.

[ManUtd4ever]

Oh well, after the penalty in the first 2 minutes, it seemed like it was going to be one of those games. At least the boys didn't give up and made a game out of it. The rest of the season is now meaningless and Daso should just focus on the CCL the rest of the way...

[ArmenJBX]

Overall, I don't think we played horribly, but it just didn't go our way today.

Hscanovics played much better today than against Cruz Azul, and Cann was solid once again. De Rosario's goal was great too. I wonder what his celebration really meant.

[James17930]

Overall, I don't think we played horribly, but it just didn't go our way today.

Hscanovics played much better today than against Cruz Azul, and Cann was solid once again. De Rosario's goal was great too. I wonder what his celebration really meant.

Really? I only saw the highlights, not the game, but it looked like he was completely out of position on two of the goals . . . I mean, on one he completely let the guy go unmarked into the box, and on the last goal he wasn't pressuring the guy at all, and it was left to De Ro to try and defend him.

If I was Daso I would've ripped him a new one after the game.

[ArmenJBX]

Well against Cruz Azul he couldn't control the ball at his foot. This time around he contributed offensively and was okay defensively. Okay, not great, but okay.

[Chevy]

Well against Cruz Azul he couldn't control the ball at his foot. This time around he contributed offensively and was okay defensively. Okay, not great, but okay.

I agree.

However, when we give out props for players being able to control the ball with their feet you know the club is in deep f**king trouble.

[Roogsy]

After the last whistle, he went straight over to Barrett and asked for his shirt.

Barrett.

Well, they are friends. Doesn't seem odd to me.

[TFCRegina]

If there was any bright point about today, it's that I was legitimately entertained at the game today.
It was very rare this season under Preki that I actually felt entertained by the games.

Agreed.

[Roogsy]

Indeed it is.

Sigh..

I liked what we had this season, we looked like we were on the right path, but something happened. Anyways, this was a good year to fix huge problems from last years squad, namely goal scorers and defense. We have a strong D now, or stronger at least, and Maicon Santos and Chad Barrett can score goals, along with De Rosario.

Next year is about finding 2 solid midfielders. I'm talking about real central midfielders. Right now, we can't rely on de Guzman; he just can't handle it, and I do agree with jloome's comments in the game thread, whose assessment was probably more correct. de Guzman can't handle the pressure, we need another player beside him who can.

Mista needs to stay as well, and wingers are really needed. Jacob Peterson is developing into a decent option, and I see a lot of the old Barrett in him in that he's slowly but surely getting better and better. The likes of Joseph Nane will no longer cut it; these are not MLS Caliber players. All positions except maybe goalkeeper needs to be reinforced with solid players like Cann and Harden, and those players cannot be idolized. Gargan may be good but he's a bit player at best in any other club.

Lastly, Toronto FC has to have a clear goal for next season. Playoffs. Not CCL, not Nutrilite, Playoffs. Those competitions should come later. Play the academy in those games.

I don't even know where to start with this post so I won't bother other than to say I profoundly disagree with several of your main points.

[wzhxvy]

Don't know if its already been mentioned already, but today I was sitting in 123 and at the start of the game Paul B. And Tom A. were standing just outside the tunnel with some other corp. flacks. When the RPB held up their "ALL FOR $1" sign (which was great btw), Paul nudged Tom and pointed it out. After whispering something into Tom's ear, both of them had a good laugh.

I just want everyone to be clear on the fact that they are laughing at our concerns and really don't give a fuck about the fans.


If that is the case, then they are stupider than I think they are. Hats off to NEE for their display today (I dont agree with some of their tactics on support) but I love their passion and ability to stand up and not be leaderless cheerleaders. If anyone thinks that the MLSE sign can just be brushed off by TFC FO then you dont understand the importance of brands...these two yahoos in Bierne and Anselami have accomplished something that no other MLSE business has managed to accomplish which is put MLSE front and centre and its only going to get worse. I am sure TD and the Teacher's Union love having their name associated with MLSE...the worse this gets, the heat will be turned on more and more...they can laugh at it now...but it will cost them their jobs if not worse for TFC.

Btw, someone mentioned the Dero celebration...very curious about that as well...

[Roogsy]

TFC's handling of Cronin is a perfect example of why they are where they are 4 years in. Get allocation $ so they can get JDG buddie Mista for 1/2 season. JDG must have told Mista what a goldmine MLSE is, and how they both can pickup some easy $. So TFC ends up with No Cronin, No Mista and No playoffs. TFC is in worse shape now then they were @ end of last season, and they have nobody to blame except themselves.



Pretty much yup.

And this can be traced directly back up the heirarchy. Mo needed to go at the end of LAST season but Anselmi and crew decided to keep him on board. And because of that decision, this team is now worse off than it was last year. With Mo gone and a real coach in charge I think this year we could have tasted playoffs. Instead we are on the outside looking in again and looking at another year of rebuilding.

I feel sick to my stomach.

[Roogsy]

If there was any bright point about today, it's that I was legitimately entertained at the game today.
It was very rare this season under Preki that I actually felt entertained by the games.

True.

I have felt more highs and lows today in one game than I have collectively all season.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

The mad scramble to come back was great, but there were long stretches of the game where basic stuff, like passing, was beyond TFC. I don't rate their recent good results that high either, Houston was a couple of pieces of individual skill by De Ro, and the draw at Cruz Azul is a little over hyped. Yes it's historic, only the third MLS team ever to draw in Mexico, but the complete lack of endeavour was a disappointment.

[Roogsy]

Don't know if its already been mentioned already, but today I was sitting in 123 and at the start of the game Paul B. And Tom A. were standing just outside the tunnel with some other corp. flacks. When the RPB held up their "ALL FOR $1" sign (which was great btw), Paul nudged Tom and pointed it out. After whispering something into Tom's ear, both of them had a good laugh.

I just want everyone to be clear on the fact that they are laughing at our concerns and really don't give a fuck about the fans.




We


are


chumps


period.

[wzhxvy]

I have never heard BMO field as quiet as I heard it today. You could actually hear the noise from TLN it was that quiet (lets not kid ourself people...they do it for free for a reason...I would pay them to stop playing). I personally did not enjoy the game at all today because it dawned on me that things are worse than they are....this team might need to get rid of its core to rebuild and it easily could be two years...there were obvious issues between the players on the field today...the way Dero (mostly) and Barret treated Mista was evident...

[rocker]

the way Dero (mostly) and Barret treated Mista was evident...

De Ro often ignores his teammates. He did it regularly with Pablo Vitti, and with the regular field goals. I don't know if he feels he doesn't get the love from them so he doesn't bother passing to them, or if he just has the confidence that he can do everything himself.... but I find it annoying. When it works,. it's like "holy shit, De Ro is God", but when it fails, it's like "holy shit, De Ro is a ball hog."

[menefreghista]

I have never heard BMO field as quiet as I heard it today.

Speaking of the state of the stadium: watching a rare home match on TV the one thing that is startling is that the East side is 1/2 full. And that is after everyone has time to get to the game. The exception being sections 111 and 110 of course.

But if that isn't a sign of lessened demand, I don't know what is.

Never mind how embarrassing it looks on TV to see the stands 10% full at kick off.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

^ What did Barret do to Mista?

[Pachuco]

It's little things that he does, that Barrett did, and that every developing player I've seen has exhibited.

It's this drive and hunger, the kind that Neymar and Tommy Mueller have for example. It's slowly but surely getting better and better.

I also have a bit of a background having followed him for a bit during his time with Colorado, where he was a much better player imo. If we can get that old Peterson, we have a decent, not great, not starting quality, but decent option.

Jacob Peterson is the sole reason why TFC lost today. Sorry, he's worst then Garcia. If I see him back next season I will rip on him the entire season. He should go back to fixing fridges.

[Pachuco]

Oh, and Frei is the greatest goalkeeper in the MLS. It's robbery that he wasn't in the All Star Game.

[menefreghista]

Oh, and Frei is the greatest goalkeeper in the MLS. It's robbery that he wasn't in the All Star Game.

We will be lucky if he's back next year.

[Roogsy]

Oh, and Frei is the greatest goalkeeper in the MLS. It's robbery that he wasn't in the All Star Game.


Jacob Peterson is the sole reason why TFC lost today. Sorry, he's worst then Garcia. If I see him back next season I will rip on him the entire season. He should go back to fixing fridges.

Yes and yes.

[London]

can anyone summerize the dero cheque signing???

who was that directed at??

[Chevy]

Jacob Peterson is the sole reason why TFC lost today. Sorry, he's worst then Garcia. If I see him back next season I will rip on him the entire season. He should go back to fixing fridges.

Funny story - Peterson fixed my fridge a few years ago. It runs really good, but when you open the door everything round seems to fall right out.

[wzhxvy]

Speaking of the state of the stadium: watching a rare home match on TV the one thing that is startling is that the East side is 1/2 full. And that is after everyone has time to get to the game. The exception being sections 111 and 110 of course.

But if that isn't a sign of lessened demand, I don't know what is.

Never mind how embarrassing it looks on TV to see the stands 10% full at kick off.


The east side has been getting worse since last season actually...at first I thought it was people who just spent the game at the beer garden but now I just think its people bailing...no offence to anyone who sits there..but the east side is the worst place in BMO (agree except 111...110 is a mess because you dont know if its standing or not)...I would bet big money that there will be plenty of seats available in the East this year for STH...regardless the stadium was far from full...and at kickoff even the south end was 40% empty...freaking 112 was half empty with the exception of the bottom rows at kickoff...its sad to see whats happening

[TFCtoMUFC]

can anyone summerize the dero cheque signing???

who was that directed at??

He looked right at the bench when he did it. He wants a DP contract.

[Roogsy]

He looked right at the bench when he did it. He wants a DP contract.


I couldn't see it from the south end but if he did that, I think it's hilarious.

DeRo is speaking with his performance. I don't know what else people want from their DP but I would've been ok giving anyone giving us 12 goals a million bucks.

[greatwhitenorf]

"...another year of rebuilding."

Just one? Love the optimism.

[Cashcleaner]

He looked right at the bench when he did it. He wants a DP contract.

That's what I gathered. At first I was wondering if it was an attempt to goad the fans into buying tickets for 2011, but after looking at it again, it was definitely directed at the dugout.

Don't blame the guy.

[sully]

Fair play to the NÉE their efforts.

[menefreghista]

The east side has been getting worse since last season actually...at first I thought it was people who just spent the game at the beer garden but now I just think its people bailing...no offence to anyone who sits there..but the east side is the worst place in BMO (agree except 111...110 is a mess because you dont know if its standing or not)...I would bet big money that there will be plenty of seats available in the East this year for STH...regardless the stadium was far from full...and at kickoff even the south end was 40% empty...freaking 112 was half empty with the exception of the bottom rows at kickoff...its sad to see whats happening

The East side has quite a bit of $1000-2500 season tickets. Going to be interesting to see how well they sell.

I've noticed the stadium has been getting emptier and emptier, in spite of announced attendance numbers. The washroom and concession lines have been way shorter than how they were in the past. And simply looking at the stands its fairly obvious.

[London]

He looked right at the bench when he did it. He wants a DP contract.

hope you are correct and he wasn't telling us to pay our money

[Stryker]

DeRo
Barrett
Frei
Attakora
Gargan
Cann

Everyone else can hit the bricks

[ArmenJBX]

Jacob Peterson is the sole reason why TFC lost today. Sorry, he's worst then Garcia. If I see him back next season I will rip on him the entire season. He should go back to fixing fridges.

Yup, a forward winger is why Wondo scored a hat trick today, a winger is the reason why Toronto FC played american touch-down football, a winger, a single player, is the reason we didn't win today?

I understand you don't agree with me but that's just ridiculous. One player is not why we lost today, and don't give me the "He missed his shot" because De Rosario misses way worse then that. The only difference is he makes up for it in goals.

Roogs, you and I have very different views on the direction this team should take, and I feel like a forum is perhaps not the best place for this discussion. I look forward to the day that we can be discussing this over a beer at Joes. We could put together a kick ass team I think :D

[greatwhitenorf]

DeRo's goal was possibly the first instance of a ball, in an important moment, being played one-touch all day by THC players.

Shocking lack of skill around the SJ net. Were they playing to get someone ELSE fired today?

[Roogsy]

hope you are correct and he wasn't telling us to pay our money


Most of the players didn't even know that the renewals had gone out this week. None of them are involved in the front office nor are they season ticket holders. I don't think Dwayne is even aware of the ticket price hike.

[Pachuco]

Yup, a forward winger is why Wondo scored a hat trick today, a winger is the reason why Toronto FC played american touch-down football, a winger, a single player, is the reason we didn't win today?

I understand you don't agree with me but that's just ridiculous. One player is not why we lost today, and don't give me the "He missed his shot" because De Rosario misses way worse then that. The only difference is he makes up for it in goals.

Roogs, you and I have very different views on the direction this team should take, and I feel like a forum is perhaps not the best place for this discussion. I look forward to the day that we can be discussing this over a beer at Joes. We could put together a kick ass team I think :D

You obviously should understand that I'm over-reacting (something that's in your blood ;)). There were more reasons why we lost. But offensively today Peterson killed us. I don't even get when Gargan was taken off for Mista when Peterson was playing the way he was. I'm not just talking about missing a breakway - which by the way Dero doesn't do. When Dero misses a shot it's an attempt from 24 yards out. When Peterson is 24 yards out he couldn't put enough power on his shot to actually reach the touch line. But anyways, Peterson's through passes were atrocious today, the worst shit I have ever seen. Gabe Gala would have been more productive today.

Not happy with Peterson getting a chance to fuck up our offense today.

[TFCtoMUFC]

I'd dump DeGuzman and let Mista walk. Give DeRo a raise.

[ArmenJBX]

I thought he was fine. Am I the only one who sees something in Peterson?

TFCtoMUFC is back! :D

[wzhxvy]

If Dero's gesture was what you guys think it was...then I have lost some respect for the guy. We were down 2-0...getting the shit kicked out of us...he scores a goal, which I personally did not think was brilliant but a goal is a goal...and instead of focusing on the team, and disappearing playoff hopes...he is making gestures about his personal agenda. Getting real sick and tired of his whining about money...if anyone would have paid him more, then go there...he has no entitlement to money from TFC because other yahoos got overpaid and now its his turn as the local and the best player in a losing team...and lets not forget..after his celebration we got scored on in seconds....

[TFCtoMUFC]

If Dero's gesture was what it you guys think it was...then I have lost some respect for the guy. We were down 2-0...getting the shit kicked out of us...he scores a goal, which I personally did not think was brilliant but a goal is a goal...and instead of focusing on the team, and disappearing playoff hopes...he is making gestures about his personal agenda. Getting real sick and tired of his whining about money...if anyone would have paid him more, then go there...he has no entitlement to money from TFC because other yahoos got overpaid and now its his turn as the local performer and the best player in a losing team...and lets not forget..after his celebration we got scored on in seconds....

See I think the exact opposite. The guy is our team. If Mista cared any less we'd see him asleep on the bench. DeRo constantly plays the full 90 and is the captain. Get rid of Mista, give DeRo more money. Is DeRo under that Landycakes rule where he doesn't need to take up a DP spot?

[Redcoe15]

Just finished watching the game that I had recorded.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Our side is the shits, no playoffs again, but we all knew that. The worst thing is we don't have MoFo Johnston to kick around anymore. Maybe Anselmi, but his job description goes beyond that of TFC, so we can't get him thrown under the bus.

Four years in, this has to be the most pathetic excuse of a franchise in MLS history. Everyone else before and after have made significant progress. San Jose, their first trip to the post season in their third year in the league, likely. Seattle, their second straight playoff appearance, likely, in their second season. Hell, Philadelphia is problably a better side, in their inagural season, than our team right now. It would not suprise me, at this rate, if Vancouver became the first Canadian based MLS side to reach the post season.

The best supported team in the league with bugger all to show for it.

FUUUUUUUCK!!!!! :hulk:

[Roogsy]

You obviously should understand that I'm over-reacting (something that's in your blood ;)). There were more reasons why we lost. But offensively today Peterson killed us. I don't even get when Gargan was taken off for Mista when Peterson was playing the way he was. I'm not just talking about missing a breakway - which by the way Dero doesn't do. When Dero misses a shot it's an attempt from 24 yards out. When Peterson is 24 yards out he couldn't put enough power on his shot to actually reach the touch line. But anyways, Peterson's through passes were atrocious today, the worst shit I have ever seen. Gabe Gala would have been more productive today.

Not happy with Peterson getting a chance to fuck up our offense today.


Let's not forget the sweet through-ball he got which he then proceeded to blast into the sidenet from 10 feet out (as a pro-footballer, if you can't hit the net from 10 feet out, give up already) as well as the header that got sent 6 feet wide. He has no business being in the box.

[ArmenJBX]

Giving De Rosario more money is stroking his ego.
Anyways, right now, we have to use that money to find some higher quality players to reinforce this squad. With a couple key additions, and some more time together, this squad is basically done. After that, it's about finding good deals, young talent, and smart trades.

[TFCtoMUFC]

Garcia, DeGuzman, Ibrahim, Mista, Nane, OBW, Peterson, Saric, Usanov, Hscanovic all gone at seasons end. Please and thanks.

[Roogsy]

See I think the exact opposite. The guy is our team. If Mista cared any less we'd see him asleep on the bench. DeRo constantly plays the full 90 and is the captain. Get rid of Mista, give DeRo more money. Is DeRo under that Landycakes rule where he doesn't need to take up a DP spot?


Exactly. If DeRo is giving his all 90 minutes a game, what does anyone care how he celebrates or if there is a message in his celebration to the higher-ups? Shouldn't you be more happy that he scored and put us within a goal of the score? Was it his fault our defense fell asleep after he got us back in the game? After the year we've had, I am surprised we don't have MORE respect for DeRo still giving his all rather than losing respect for him because he reminds the bumbling head office who is the only player performing on this team.

[ArmenJBX]

Garcia, DeGuzman, Ibrahim, Mista, Nane, OBW, Peterson, Saric, Usanov, Hscanovic all gone at seasons end. Please and thanks.

I would keep Saric, Peterson and Mista, but not as a DP.

[TFCtoMUFC]

Giving De Rosario more money is stroking his ego.
Anyways, right now, we have to use that money to find some higher quality players to reinforce this squad. With a couple key additions, and some more time together, this squad is basically done. After that, it's about finding good deals, young talent, and smart trades.

We traded our young talent (Sam Cronin) for allocation for the worst DP and the laziest player I have ever seen (Mista). We need a total overhaul. Dasovic needs to stay in as coach, the players listen to him and he has a real passion for winning and the team.

[Chevy]

Regardless of the situation or cirumstances, that kind of behaviour should not come from the captain. Pretty bush league IMO.

[ArmenJBX]

Roogsy, are you friends with De Rosario on a personal level?

[wzhxvy]

See I think the exact opposite. The guy is our team. If Mista cared any less we'd see him asleep on the bench. DeRo constantly plays the full 90 and is the captain. Get rid of Mista, give DeRo more money. Is DeRo under that Landycakes rule where he doesn't need to take up a DP spot?

Our team who missed the playoffs ? We have no team. Our captain should not be making gestures about his personal contract, down 2-0, in a critical game where we were utter shite up to that point. Mista actually played well today. But who cares about Mista or JDG...they were overpaid and they did a better job negotiating that Dero. Dero signed a contract when he moved over here...he didnt have a gun to his head and actually had a nice pay raise when he came over. He was lied to by MO and then JDG came over and made all this money...we all know the story...

[rocker]

See I think the exact opposite. The guy is our team.

He's our team because that's all we got offensively, really (with Barrett and Santos having been out and OBW not producing). I've seen this before: on bad or average teams there's always one guy who gets all the glory, probably because nobody else is doing anything.

[TFCtoMUFC]

Regardless of the situation or cirumstances, that kind of behaviour should not come from the captain. Pretty bush league IMO.

If you played on one of the worst teams in the league, were the only player that scored (for the most part) and were one of three or four guys that gave it 100% you'd do it too. Bush league would be Jacob Peterson's level of play.

[Roogsy]

Giving De Rosario more money is stroking his ego.

Because his team-leading goals aren't enough to remind him what he means to this team?


Anyways, right now, we have to use that money to find some higher quality players to reinforce this squad. With a couple key additions, and some more time together, this squad is basically done. After that, it's about finding good deals, young talent, and smart trades.

And DeRo should be the one to sacrifice for that as opposed to the TWO DPs we have that have produced how many goals?


I've never seen a group of fans so unappreciative of what they have. He is our only bonafide MLS superstar but we'd rather stick it to him and blow 8 times his salary on useless players and pretty much tell him he's not needed. Great way to build a contending team.

:thumbsup:

[Heart of Stone]

The best supported team in the league with bugger all to show for it.


They need to let RPB operate like Section 8 in Chicago... if the RPB continue down this road they will turn into pawns in MLSE's corporate greed... today sec. 112 and sec. 113 look like simple cheerleaders ... but unpaid cheerleaders... we need smoke, flares, etc. ... hopefully we start looking at Section 8 in Chicago ... enough of "Toronto the good" and conservative/Liberal Party of Ontario type-of attitude... we need to be supporters not do-good cheerleaders...:flare:

[Stryker]

Am I the only one who sees something in Peterson?

I see a USL bench player.

[Roogsy]

Roogsy, are you friends with De Rosario on a personal level?


If you must know, I am actually friends with most of the team members, even the ones I am critical of. My opinions have nothing to do with who I am friends with and everything to do with the proof before me. If you have evidence of why DeRo should NOT got a DP contract, please enlighten me.

[ArmenJBX]

Because the DP rule isn't for players like De Rosario.
He's an MLS player, an amazing MLS player, but not a DP.
Donovan shouldn't be one either but that's another story.

The DP rule should be used to sign players normally unsignable. De Rosario agreed to the contract he was presented. End of story. He doesn't deserve DP the same way Conor Casey doesn't deserve DP. He's a team head, but not a DP.

[spark]

If Dero's gesture was what you guys think it was...then I have lost some respect for the guy.

It was. Apparently he let loose on MLSE after the game. I'm sure someone will write about in tomorrow or monday.

[Darlofletch]

well, there go the playoffs.

at least the players are smiling in training. that's nice.

[Roogsy]

Building a contending team doesn't equal keeping De Rosario happy...


Houston and San Jose would disagree.


You'd think keeping your best performing player is a good step in building a contending team. All the successful teams employ a strategy of pissing off their best offensive threats don't they? ;)

[TFCtoMUFC]

Because the DP rule isn't for players like De Rosario.
He's an MLS player, an amazing MLS player, but not a DP.

But lazy, useless, do nothing Mista is.

[Chevy]

If you played on one of the worst teams in the league, were the only player that scored (for the most part) and were one of three or four guys that gave it 100% you'd do it too. Bush league would be Jacob Peterson's level of play.

No I wouldn't. If my club was down 2-1 and still fighting for a playoff spot I wouldn't be concerned with making a statement about ME.

Furthermore, what do you think guys like Attakora, Cann and Gargan think when they see that BS? Probably something like "F.U. Asshole, I wanna get paid too but maybe we should try to get a result here."

[Roogsy]

It was. Apparently he let loose on MLSE after the game. I'm sure someone will write about in tomorrow or monday.

Well TFCTV won't put it up so I hope someone else does! I'd love to hear what he says.

What does he have to lose?

[rocker]

Houston and San Jose would disagree.
You'd think keeping your best performing player is a good step in building a contending team. All the successful teams employ a strategy of pissing off their best offensive threats don't they? ;)

what do you mean? De Ro was pissed off for a few years there with Houston while being on a relatively low priced contract. Finally they raised him up to what he was worth. Never once did he play differently because of it.

Then they let him go to Toronto, and proceeded to replace him with Stuart Holden, without missing a beat.

I think it'd be foolish to offer De Ro more money at this stage, particularly when he's well compensated and doesn't have anywhere else to go, and is under contract, and plays the same despite his contract amount. Geez, I thought you were a business guy, Roogsy? ;)

[Pachuco]

He's our team because that's all we got offensively, really (with Barrett and Santos having been out and OBW not producing). I've seen this before: on bad or average teams there's always one guy who gets all the glory, probably because nobody else is doing anything.

Oh, you mean like Dichio? Give me a break. He's tied for 3rd in the MLS for goals. He's not a guy who is looking good because the rest of the team is shit, he's a guy who's still scoring goals on a shit ass team. The way Juan Pablo did last year. Put Dero in NY and I'm sure you'd have less of a ball hog and a guy who's still producing. He's a ball hog because he has to be. Who would you rather have shooting on net? Peterson from 2 yards out or Dero from 20?

[wzhxvy]

Exactly. If DeRo is giving his all 90 minutes a game, what does anyone care how he celebrates or if there is a message in his celebration to the higher-ups? Shouldn't you be more happy that he scored and put us within a goal of the score? Was it his fault our defense fell asleep after he got us back in the game? After the year we've had, I am surprised we don't have MORE respect for DeRo still giving his all rather than losing respect for him because he reminds the bumbling head office who is the only player performing on this team.

There is not one freaking thing in today's performance that anyone should be happy or celebrating about.

Listen, we all know what this is about. He is 33, has one year left on his deal and knows the next deal is his last one and wants to cash in like JDG did. But TFC is not his retirement fund. If he can get a deal out of them...good for him...but personally I could give two shits if he is making 650 or 1.2...I want a winning team.

[ArmenJBX]

Adrian Cann is actually the best example of what I look for in a player. When he's interviewed you can tell he clearly loves this team, and it shows in his play too. De Rosario as well is a great player. But, in the end of the day, every single one of us would ditch De Rosario if the alternative was someone like Steven Gerrard, because it's ultimately the benefit of the badge as opposed to individual players.

[Roogsy]

There is not one freaking thing in today's performance that anyone should be happy or celebrating about.

Listen, we all know what this is about. He is 33, has one year left on his deal and knows the next deal is his last one and wants to cash in like JDG did. But TFC is not his retirement fund. If he can get a deal out of them...good for him...but personally I could give two shits if he is making 650 or 1.2...I want a winning team.


I will ask you a simple question.



Do we think we can have a winning team without DeRo next year?

[rocker]

Oh, you mean like Dichio? Give me a break. He's tied for 3rd in the MLS for goals. He's not a guy who is looking good because the rest of the team is shit, he's a guy who's still scoring goals on a shit ass team. The way Juan Pablo did last year. Put Dero in NY and I'm sure you'd have less of a ball hog and a guy who's still producing. He's a ball hog because he has to be. Who would you rather have shooting on net? Peterson from 2 yards out or Dero from 20?

He's scoring goals on a "shit ass team" because he hogs the ball and tries to do everything himself. That's probably what you need to do with guys like OBW around.

If we had a better team, De Ro wouldn't be able to hog the ball and shoot so much.

You do realize that he gets so many goals because he simply takes so many shots, right? He had 3 field goals today. You figure if you take a lot of shots, some are bound to go in.

He's been on better teams and never scored as much as he has now.

[rocker]

I will ask you a simple question.



Do we think we can have a winning team without DeRo next year?

So if TFC improves the rest of the team, you think De Ro is still the difference between winning and losing? I thought this was a team game...

[Darlofletch]

If you must know, I am actually friends with most of the team members, even the ones I am critical of. My opinions have nothing to do with who I am friends with and everything to do with the proof before me. If you have evidence of why DeRo should NOT got a DP contract, please enlighten me.



stopped listening to the podcast a while back. Unfortunately Duane has gotten far too chummy with the TFC FO to ask the tough questions, so he has become something of an extention of their PR department, providing justifications and excuses for some time. No thanks.


roogsy, in the st package thread.

so seems like you think people getting too close to someone impacts their ability to be objective. but I guess that's only other people that that happens to.

[ArmenJBX]

YES! It is very possible and probably more likely. De Rosario eats up a huge chunk of the salary cap and if he is gone next year that's spots for 2 players of Bobby Convey-type caliber.

I'd rather have 2 wingers who deserve 200k each then one player at 400K

De Rosario would not be making this kind of money anywhere else save for Vancouver.

[Pachuco]

He's scoring goals on a "shit ass team" because he hogs the ball and tries to do everything himself. That's probably what you need to do with guys like OBW around.

If we had a better team, De Ro wouldn't be able to hog the ball and shoot so much.

You do realize that he gets so many goals because he simply takes so many shots, right? He had 3 field goals today. You figure if you take a lot of shots, some are bound to go in.

He's been on better teams and never scored as much as he has now.

You just made the exact same point I made. Except you somehow seem to think it's a negative thing. But yet you even agree he should be doing it with guys like OBW around.

[Chevy]

I will ask you a simple question.



Do we think we can have a winning team without DeRo next year?


I'll turn this around on you. Have we substantially improved with him on the team?

[TFCtoMUFC]

I will ask you a simple question.



Do we think we can have a winning team without DeRo next year?

We can. But realistically we can't. If we brought in top notch players (somehow) we could have a winning team without DeRo. Under current trends we will bring in spare guys from other teams throw them in positions they can't play and expect wins. Until we prove otherwise, we need DeRo.

[Roogsy]

YES! It is very possible and probably more likely. De Rosario eats up a huge chunk of the salary cap and if he is gone next year that's spots for 2 players of Bobby Convey-type caliber.

I'd rather have 2 wingers who deserve 200k each then one player at 400K

De Rosario would not be making this kind of money anywhere else save for Vancouver.


There you go playing FIFA trader again.

[ArmenJBX]

The argument cannot be won by one side or the other. It's all about preference.

There are those who would keep one great player and those who want 3 good players.

[wzhxvy]

I will ask you a simple question.



Do we think we can have a winning team without DeRo next year?

I dont know the answer. I know that we have had him for 2 years and have not had a winning team. My point was not to seem thankless to Dero for his contributions (I think you are being overly sensitive when it comes to him)...my point is that his gesture was completely selfish, was at the absolute wrong time, and I think showed a glimpse into what is really going on his head right now...which is ME ME ME ME.

Would I like Dero next year ? Yes, I actually do like him but not at the expense of winning. He is basically making the max against the cap, and I would him support him making that next year. How much more he makes over the max is an issue for him and his people to negoiate with MLSE. I dont want to hear any more whining and noise about his contract (which we all know comes from him). Not one peep. This club and this team are heading down a really shitty path at the moment...and his antics are not helping.

[ArmenJBX]

There you go playing FIFA trader again.

How is it FIFA Trader!??! It's common sense. Look at the salaries per player on every other team. Pick two players, any two players, and I guarantee that as long as they're not DP's or Shalrie Joseph, you could technically sign them. You could sign 2 strong players for the salary De Rosario makes.

If you don't think that it's possible well then I guess Mo has scarred this base of supporters to a point where good moves seem impossible. Why do teams like New York sign players like Alston and Ballouchey? Because they make smart moves.

We can do this too. Next year is a prime opportunity to do so, exploiting Vancouver can improve this squad in numerous positions if we play it right.

It's not hard to find good players, just a matter of trading for them.

[Pachuco]

The argument cannot be won by one side or the other. It's all about preference.

There are those who would keep one great player and those who want 3 good players.

You and your false hope. You continue to think that losing Dero means gaining three good players. At some point you'll realize that guys like Dero are very hard to replace. Salary isn't the reason we don't have better players, pathetic management has been the reason until now. Atleast Dero earns what he makes today, unlike other guys on the team.

[TFCtoMUFC]

Apparently JPA is out of NY at the end of the year. Last call for passenger Miguel Martinez, passenger Miguel Martinez on Air Canada flight to Madrid.

[TFCtoMUFC]

How is it FIFA Trader!??! It's common sense. Look at the salaries per player on every other team. Pick two players, any two players, and I guarantee that as long as they're not DP's or Shalrie Joseph, you could technically sign them. You could sign 2 strong players for the salary De Rosario makes.

If you don't think that it's possible well then I guess Mo has scarred this base of supporters to a point where good moves seem impossible. Why do teams like New York sign players like Alston and Ballouchey? Because they make smart moves.

We can do this too. Next year is a prime opportunity to do so, exploiting Vancouver can improve this squad in numerous positions if we play it right.

It's not hard to find good players, just a matter of trading for them.

Robbie Rogers and Brek Shea. Those are the guys I want to replace DeRo. How do we do that?

[ArmenJBX]

I love how it's false hope.

A good manager can trade for good players. If we don't have a manager who can sign the right players, we're fucked. End of story.

Honestly, I don't give a shit whose name is on the back of the TFC jersey as long as they're good. That's all. I want Toronto FC Success, not De Rosario success.

[ArmenJBX]

Robbie Rogers and Brek Shea. Those are the guys I want to replace DeRo. How do we do that?

Assuming one of the two is left unprotected due to their teams strategically leaving them open to protect another player, you tell Vancouver to steal that player in place of De Rosario and their draft pick. For Vancouver, having a strong Canadian MLS player is better then a kid and a expensive expansion draft spot they wouldn't normally take. They need to fill seats, De Rosario will do that.

Then you give that draft pick and another round pick to the other team for the other player.

Or you trade 2nd round draft pick plus a player for one of them, or you trade discovery spots with Columbus as we're higher then them I believe.

You could even offer allocation money. There are numerous ways of doing this.

Just because Mo couldn't do it doesn't mean it's impossible.

[Stryker]

We need a whole new offence based around DeRo and Barrett.

DeRo should be our Fabregas and Barrett our Walcott.

[Roogsy]

roogsy, in the st package thread.

so seems like you think people getting too close to someone impacts their ability to be objective. but I guess that's only other people that that happens to.


People getting too close always run the risk of losing objectivity, I do agree. So what we have are facts to rely upon. Shall we review the facts here and analyze whether my position has more to do with a bias towards any particular player or could it be that years of evidence and the current season back up what I believe?

And what is my belief? That this team would be even worse without DeRo. And that if we go into next year without him, not only will be not make the playoffs again, we will be looking down the barrel of another ineptitude streak like in our first year.

Nobody here seems to want to remember that TFC has never been a place for players to want to come. Connor Casey, Mulrooney, O'brien all wanted out. Now that TFC has shown to be unstable in the back office, how many cheap, effective players are going to be clamouring to come in to play for us? So is it really a leap of logic to believe that we will have a hard time bringing in any offensive players that we won't have to severely overpay? But no let's roll the dice and be ungrateful at the best scorer we've ever had. Jimmy likes to play FIFA trader and yet doesn't explain where he is going to get these players from considering their current teams will certainly not let them go. Where exactly are we going to get players from to build our team? Players that want to come to Toronto? Players that won't ask for a mint to come here?

But no...we don't need DeRo's 12 goals. My belief that he is needed here has nothing to do with those dozen goals. Because our team scores them by the bucketload.

[Darlofletch]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/25/sp-dero-contract.html

molinaro's article is up.

[Blizzard]

He looked right at the bench when he did it. He wants a DP contract.

No Tyler, he was still in the north end of the field and was looking at the west stand, possibly at the TFC executives. Nowhere near the TFC bench. You're right about the DP contract though. That's what he wants. Of course, he has two years left on his contract I do believe so he may end up disappointed.

[ArmenJBX]

Roogsy, I've explained myself and my plan, it's not FIFA trader, there are numerous ways of signing a player. Ultimately, there's some luck in it too but if you had the opportunity to sign the right players, De Rosario could be sacrificed for it.

It's not about getting rid of De Rosario and then finding and signing players, it's about getting rid of De Rosario because there's players that can be signed.

[Borga]

I'm real excited that in the midst of a must-win game, while the team is fighting (? maybe that's a strong word) for their playoff lives, our leader, our beacon of hard work and sportsmanship is worried mainly about his paycheque.

Complete and utter bullshit move on his behalf.

[TFCtoMUFC]

DeRo wanting DP money is TFC's fault. When DeRo came here there were no DPs and being a DP was a somewhat sacred status, he knew his place, no complaints. We sign to duds for DPs. DeRo is the best player on the team, and is pissed that two guys are way overpaid when he does everything. If we brought in world class players as DPs DeRo would again know his place and not complain about not being a DP.

[ArmenJBX]

We all knew or at least feared this would happen when De Guz was signed.

[Roogsy]

Roogsy, I've explained myself and my plan, it's not FIFA trader, there are numerous ways of signing a player. Ultimately, there's some luck in it too but if you had the opportunity to sign the right players, De Rosario could be sacrificed for it.

It's not about getting rid of De Rosario and then finding and signing players, it's about getting rid of De Rosario because there's players that can be signed.


And if you get rid of JDG or Mista you'd have the room too. So why don't we have these cost-efficient players already? Do you not think every other team in MLS is building their "dream squad" as well? Ultimately, you have no choice to admit that "some luck" has to enter it and that you have to find the right opportunity to do it. Well, building a team doesn't rely on luck. You can benefit from it certainly but team building has to be done on facts you can point to. Waiting for a lucky break to happen is a foolish way to build a team.


The ONLY question we should be asking is this: Is Dwayne DeRosario the best player on this team? If he is? Then should not the best player on the team be the best compensated? And if he is the best player but not the best compensated, who here does not believe that is something he haa a right to address with the club? And if he addresses it with the club, why do we really care as long as he gives 90 minutes a game? And is he giving us 90 minutes a game? These are the only questions that matter.

[prizby]

an we focus on CL now?

[TFCtoMUFC]

No Tyler, he was still in the north end of the field and was looking at the west stand, possibly at the TFC executives. Nowhere near the TFC bench. You're right about the DP contract though. That's what he wants. Of course, he has two years left on his contract I do believe so he may end up disappointed.

Being in 113 with no glasses on has it disadvantages. Doesn't really matter where he was looking though, the point was made. Thank you for the correction (as the bench part didn't make a lot of sense to me):D

[TFC Cityboy]

I'm real excited that in the midst of a must-win game, while the team is fighting (? maybe that's a strong word) for their playoff lives, our leader, our beacon of hard work and sportsmanship is worried mainly about his paycheque.

Complete and utter bullshit move on his behalf.
AGREE 100%. Classless move...and likely not a co-incidence we conceeded straight away. Wonder what Dan Gargan and Nana thought of this gesture as they earn less than 10% of what DDR earns.
If that's your idea of leading by example as captain, fuck off.

[wzhxvy]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/25/sp-dero-contract.html

molinaro's article is up.


Wonderful....so lets think about this practically. The GM of the club who screwed you over Dero was just fired. And his job is now backfilled by a guy who obviously will not be there long term. So your strategy is to take the opportunity and time to publically share your displeasure with Tom Anselmi basically because there is no one else left. Would it not have been better to wait until the new GM comes in...have at then...at least then you give them the chance to be heros and do well by you and blame that bastard MO...now you have made it very difficult for yourself because you made it about you and Tom...and its nothing more than a lose-lose situation for him...not a smart move.

[Darlofletch]

I'm real excited that in the midst of a must-win game, while the team is fighting (? maybe that's a strong word) for their playoff lives, our leader, our beacon of hard work and sportsmanship is worried mainly about his paycheque.

Complete and utter bullshit move on his behalf.

It's a very valid argument that de ro has, but when we've just got some hope to climb back into the game, is that what our captain should be doing?

after our second goal, what exactly happened with him and cronin? I noticed them kind of wrestling, de ro got a yellow. it looked like de ro wnated to be gettiung the ball back to be kicked off, but how did the fight start, did cronin have the ball and de ro tried to get the ball, or did de ro already have the ball, and cronin tried to steal the bal off him to waste some time. did tv show it at all.

[Chevy]

I'm real excited that in the midst of a must-win game, while the team is fighting (? maybe that's a strong word) for their playoff lives, our leader, our beacon of hard work and sportsmanship is worried mainly about his paycheque.

Complete and utter bullshit move on his behalf.

+1. Dwayne "ME" Rosario (corny but it works)

[ArmenJBX]

And if you get rid of JDG or Mista you'd have the room too. So why don't we have these cost-efficient players already? Do you not think every other team in MLS is building their "dream squad" as well? Ultimately, you have no choice to admit that "some luck" has to enter it and that you have to find the right opportunity to do it. Well, building a team doesn't rely on luck. You can benefit from it certainly but team building has to be done on facts you can point to. Waiting for a lucky break to happen is a foolish way to build a team.

Yes, you are right, De Guzman and Mista can do the same job, Garcia as well at 200K.

I'm not looking for a lucky break, right now I'm looking at Vancouver and seeing a real chance. After the drafts, if De Rosario is still here, it will be a lot harder. This is like a good chess move, if done properly.

Ultimately, if we've come to a point where no one wants to play for Toronto, no one will trade with us, and the only players we can sign are USL players or draft picks, then guess what, it's over. Toronto FC is done. If players aren't going to play for us, that's the end of TFC.

[Redcoe15]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2010/09/25/sp-dero-contract.html

molinaro's article is up.

I'm not sure what to think. This doesn't make DeRo look good, IMO. And I'm a big supporter of his. He certainly has a case, but the timing of it is way off. Mo Johnston is gone, the team is good as out of the playoffs again. To start talking about a new contract is going to end up souring a lot more supporters. Best left for him to keep this confidential and not out in the open.

[Roogsy]

Yes, you are right, De Guzman and Mista can do the same job, Garcia as well at 200K.

I'm not looking for a lucky break, right now I'm looking at Vancouver and seeing a real chance. After the drafts, if De Rosario is still here, it will be a lot harder. This is like a good chess move, if done properly.

Ultimately, if we've come to a point where no one wants to play for Toronto, no one will trade with us, and the only players we can sign are USL players or draft picks, then guess what, it's over. Toronto FC is done. If players aren't going to play for us, that's the end of TFC.

You are looking at the expansion draft as an opportunity? Of course it is! For Vancouver! Not for us! :rolleyes:

Teams are going to protect their cheapest, most effective players. The very players you covet. So how exactly are we going to pry them away from their teams? Because this is not about DeRo, this is about cap room. Cap room we can find. Many different ways, including getting rid of DeRo. So say we have that cap room, ignoring whether we have DeRo, JDG or Mista. How exactly do you convince their current teams to let us have them? What is your plan? Because frankly, I'd like to have those players too.

[Blizzard]

See I think the exact opposite. The guy is our team. If Mista cared any less we'd see him asleep on the bench. DeRo constantly plays the full 90 and is the captain. Get rid of Mista, give DeRo more money. Is DeRo under that Landycakes rule where he doesn't need to take up a DP spot?

No and neither is Donovan. That rule on longer exists since the DP number was raised.

BTW, let's give credit where it's due. Mista did a great job of holding onto that ball as he worked his way outside the box waiting for DeRo to get open. Without Mista's set-up, DeRo doesn't get the opportunity to put that one away.

I'm sorry to have to say that but it really was DeRo's only good play of the night at least in terms of strikes on goal. He got under a couple that nearly brought rain.

[Roogsy]

I'm not sure what to think. This doesn't make DeRo look good, IMO. And I'm a big supporter of his. He certainly has a case, but the timing of it is way off. Mo Johnston is gone, the team is good as out of the playoffs again. To start talking about a new contract is going to end up souring a lot more supporters. Best left for him to keep this confidential and not out in the open.


Nope, it does not look good. And do you know what? I don't think he cares. Why should he? We love him when he scores...boy do we love him. But when it comes to what really matters, if we love him enough to pay him? Boy...that love goes away fast. He doesn't need that fickleness. When he goes to Houston or San Jose there are STILL fans that wait outside to ask for his signature. So I don't blame him for reminding the team what they need to do. The team giving up a goal right after should only emphasize to the team that the roster is full of sub-par players. Maybe we need to be reminded as well.

[Blizzard]

AGREE 100%. Classless move...and likely not a co-incidence we conceeded straight away. Wonder what Dan Gargan and Nana thought of this gesture as they earn less than 10% of what DDR earns.
If that's your idea of leading by example as captain, fuck off.

It was disappointing. Hey, it was a brilliant goal both in Mista's set-up and DeRo's world class shot but for me, it was a bit spoiled by the "celebration". Does DeRo deserve more money, I'd say he probably does but it really wasn't the time or place to make that statement.

[ArmenJBX]

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/11/mls-expansion-draft-protected-lists-unveiled.html

Pick and choose. These were the unprotected players from last year.

[Roogsy]

It was disappointing. Hey, it was a brilliant goal both in Mista's set-up and DeRo's world class shot but for me, it was a bit spoiled by the "celebration". Does DeRo deserve more money, I'd say he probably does but it really wasn't the time or place to make that statement.


Maybe him and I are cut from the same cloth, but I can't think of a more effective time and place. Will it affect our love for him? I don't think so. If he scores 12 goals for us and we still can't have his back, then our love for him is pretty fickle. All the more reason for him to do it himself and rely on his performance alone to tell the club to step up.

[ArmenJBX]

Sigh..

It seems like De Rosario is more important than Toronto FC nowadays. I just want to watch a good team, not one player who has what, 2-3 years left in him?

[wzhxvy]

Nope, it does not look good. And do you know what? I don't think he cares. Why should he? We love him when he scores...boy do we love him. But when it comes to what really matters, if we love him enough to pay him? Boy...that love goes away fast. He doesn't need that fickleness. When he goes to Houston or San Jose there are STILL fans that wait outside to ask for his signature. So I don't blame him for reminding the team what they need to do. The team giving up a goal right after should only emphasize to the team that the roster is full of sub-par players. Maybe we need to be reminded as well.

No one will pay him as much as TFC. As a matter of fact, if he is ever traded, I expect TFC to eat part of his salary. Does anyone believe Houston who didnt pay him close to what we paid him, would pay him more than 650K now ?

If this is the argument that Dero is using with MLSE, no wonder he isnt getting paid. TFC is his cash cow and he will get the most money out of them. His argument should be, I am committed to this team and organization. I want to end my career with TFC and want certainty contractually...I will accept a 10 year contract with you (set it up that he gets a nice payout when he retires or gets a stream of revenue from MLSE after retirement in some function with TFC), I want to stay with the club, I will do x and y, and z in support of TFC in the community long terms...bla bla...

[Stryker]

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/11/mls-expansion-draft-protected-lists-unveiled.html

Pick and choose. These were the unprotected players from last year.

Yeah they had the proverbial pick of the litter from every overpriced/underskilled/on his way overseas/geriatric player in the league. :rolleyes:

[Roogsy]

Sigh..

It seems like De Rosario is more important than Toronto FC nowadays. I just want to watch a good team, not one player who has what, 2-3 years left in him?


12 goals this season says 2-3 years left in him to you? Based on what?

[Chevy]

The most effective time and place would be during a meeting with you, your agent and the NEW GM.

Forgetting the bush league nature of the move for one minute, MLSE still signs the cheques around here and showing them up on national TV just ain't smart.

[Blizzard]

Maybe him and I are cut from the same cloth, but I can't think of a more effective time and place. Will it affect our love for him? I don't think so. If he scores 12 goals for us and we still can't have his back, then our love for him is pretty fickle. All the more reason for him to do it himself and rely on his performance alone to tell the club to step up.

In the middle of a game that we are losing, no, that is the wrong time to do it. It was selfish.

[jimiv]

I'd dump DeGuzman and let Mista walk. Give DeRo a raise.

You know what? I'd let them all take a hike.

I think this team would be better off without DeRo's selfishness, I'm freakin' sick of the duck-walk, I'm sick of the misses, and I'm sick of the ball hoggery that comes with this guy.

:hump:

[Roogsy]

No one will pay him as much as TFC. As a matter of fact, if he is ever traded, I expect TFC to eat part of his salary. Does anyone believe Houston who didnt pay him close to what we paid him, would pay him more than 650K now ?

If this is the argument that Dero is using with MLSE, no wonder he isnt getting paid. TFC is his cash cow and he will get the most money out of them. His argument should be, I am committed to this team and organization. I want to end my career with TFC and want certainty contractually...I will accept a 10 year contract with you (set it up that he gets a nice payout when he retires or gets a stream of revenue from MLSE after retirement in some function with TFC), I want to stay with the club, I will do x and y, and z in support of TFC in the community long terms...bla bla...


Funny enough, I don't think that is unrealistic on his part. The problem is that guaranteed contracts don't exist in MLS. There is no way to back-load contracts like that because teams have the ability to unilaterally end them. Therefore, players are forced to demand up-front compensation to protect from shortened contracts. It's very much like the NFL in that way.

[ArmenJBX]

12 goals this season says 2-3 years left in him to you? Based on what?

His age.

I just watched the highlights, I'm sorry, but I can't respect a player who brings his contract into the public. Deal with it yourself.

The more I see De Rosario, the more I'm torn. I want to like the guy, he's a fantastic player, but I mean, this kind of stuff can't go on. You can't do that kind of thing as a professional.

[Roogsy]

In the middle of a game that we are losing, no, that is the wrong time to do it. It was selfish.

He probably would have done it in Houston but Anselmi wasn't there to see it. ;)

[dupont]

That's really a shame about what Dero did. He is still my favorite player but we were losing at that point.. he should only been focused on tying the game.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I'd like to see DeGuz and Mista and maybe even DeRo walk (if his feeling about his status effects his on the field play or the team chemistry), but it's easy to say get rid of this player or that, the difficult part is replacing them. With no DeRo who's going to score for TFC?

[TFCRegina]

I thought he was fine. Am I the only one who sees something in Peterson?


I see a future garbage man.

[Blizzard]

Funny enough, I don't think that is unrealistic on his part. The problem is that guaranteed contracts don't exist in MLS. There is no way to back-load contracts like that because teams have the ability to unilaterally end them. Therefore, players are forced to demand up-front compensation to protect from shortened contracts. It's very much like the NFL in that way.

I believe that changed at the negotiation of the new CBA.

[Roogsy]

Well...I made my point. If you guys are all so disgusted by his message, by all means that's your right. I could care less. I could care less if he or any other player strips off his shorts and runs naked on the pitch as long as they produce. This is a fact. Him and Frei are the only players that have produced. And with Frei likely making the move to Europe at some point, I am shocked at how nonchalant we are about losing our only other competent player.

So let's do it. Let's blow this team up completely. All players. DeRo, Frei and everyone else. Send them packing. Let's start from scratch.

I hear there is a red-headed Scotsman looking for a job in soccer management. Maybe we can start with him.

[Blizzard]

I'd like to see DeGuz and Mista and maybe even DeRo walk (if his feeling about his status effects his on the field play or the team chemistry), but it's easy to say get rid of this player or that, the difficult part is replacing them. With no DeRo who's going to score for TFC?

It's pointless to discuss dumping JDG. He's on a guaranteed contract.

In regards to Mista, it's not an issue. He only signed for the remainder of this season. Assuming he doesn't agree to come back for 200k per year, he won't be hear.

[TFCRegina]

The argument cannot be won by one side or the other. It's all about preference.

There are those who would keep one great player and those who want 3 good players.

Alternatively you could cut a shit Russian player making over a hundred grand and find some value for that money while still maintaining the top performer for TFC in the last two years.

Tell me, how many players on this time have scored 2 goals or more this year?

And from that group how many have scored 5 or more?

[wzhxvy]

So let me wrap up our situation:
1. We are out of the playoffs
2. dwindling fan base, and detriorating support in the stands
3. Season ticket prices going up
4. FO who has its head up its ass
5. our best player signing imaginary checks to himself while we get embarassed at home
6. Our two highest paid players are not our best players
7. No coach or GM...

I think I am going to go have a cigar and a drink.

[TFCtoMUFC]

So let me wrap up our situation:
1. We are out of the playoffs
2. dwindling fan base, and detriorating support in the stands
3. Season ticket prices going up
4. FO who has its head up its ass
5. our best player signing imaginary checks to himself while we get embarassed at home
6. Our two highest paid players are not our best players
7. No coach or GM...

I think I am going to go have a cigar and a drink.

Daso should be coach next year. Other than that you have some valid points.

[Roogsy]

So let me wrap up our situation:
1. We are out of the playoffs
2. dwindling fan base, and detriorating support in the stands
3. Season ticket prices going up
4. FO who has its head up its ass
5. our best player signing imaginary checks to himself while we get embarassed at home
6. Our two highest paid players are not our best players
7. No coach or GM...

I think I am going to go have a cigar and a drink.


:lol:

I think I will join you.

[Blizzard]

Well...I made my point. If you guys are all so disgusted by his message, by all means that's your right. I could care less. I could care less if he or any other player strips off his shorts and runs naked on the pitch as long as they produce. This is a fact. Him and Frei are the only players that have produced. And with Frei likely making the move to Europe at some point, I am shocked at how nonchalant we are about losing our only other competent player.

So let's do it. Let's blow this team up completely. All players. DeRo, Frei and everyone else. Send them packing. Let's start from scratch.

I hear there is a red-headed Scotsman looking for a job in soccer management. Maybe we can start with him.

I didn't say I was disgusted. I did say I was disappointed ... and I dumping him would be rash unless there is more happening behind the scenes that causes problems for the team that we know nothing about.

The other thing that bothers me is that Preki is looking at the situation and gloating.

[ArmenJBX]

I just don't think it's professional. However, there's no doubt his contributions outweigh any public gestures he makes. If he gets the DP spot, good for him. I don't think he qualifies for it but whatever, if he gets it that's great for him, I hope he's finally happy and can continue to keep up his fantastic work.

Also, the players salaries need to be reworked. I'm sorry, but things need to be fairer. If our better performers are in the 40-60k range, our best player isn't the highest paid, and the highest paid can't cut it, then we have a problem. New GM needs to renegotiate all contracts and fix the unbalanced wages made by Mo.

However, blowing up the team and starting from square 1 is not the way to fix our little red team. We need to build and grow. That's all. You wanna know why no one wants to play for us? It's because we have a bad reputation. Perhaps giving De Rosario what he wants will be helpful for our reputation with the players. I don't know anymore. I'm not in charge.

[mclaren]

I'm extremely frustrated with MLSE and I'm just a fan. I can't imagine the levels of frustration our best player has with his employer. Can't blame the guy - he must be tearing his hair out with management.

[Roogsy]

I believe that changed at the negotiation of the new CBA.


I have not had a chance to review the CBA in detail, but my understanding is that what changed with the guarantee is that they are now guaranteed on an annual basis as opposed to only half-seasons like before. I think players who have mutli-year contracts can still be released.

[Roogsy]

The other thing that bothers me is that Preki is looking at the situation and gloating.


He shouldn't be. He's the reason we are in this situation.

[mclaren]

Daso should be coach next year. Other than that you have some valid points.

Disagree about Daso. Might be a nice guy but we need a PROVEN manager in this league. I'm sick and tired of us going back to square one. We keep repeating the same mistakes.

[ArmenJBX]

He shouldn't be. He's the reason we are in this situation.

No he's not.
He was halfway done. He wasn't even given a year to make his team.

You're judging the painting as shit when the painter wasn't allowed to finish. I'd call some blotches of paint and sketch on a canvas shit too if it wasn't done.


Disagree about Daso. Might be a nice guy but we need a PROVEN manager in this league. I'm sick and tired of us going back to square one. We keep repeating the same mistakes.

+1

[Stryker]

Daso should be coach next year.
He likely will be because one he's the easy option, two he's the cheap option. Wethier or not he's any good as a coach tactically I have no idea.

[Oldtimer]

JimmyBaldX. You don't seem to understand how MLS works in player acquisitions.

Unlike hockey, MLS does not have a history of large block trades of players. You cannot trade DeRo for three decent players. You trade him for someone like a Gargan and you get allocation cash for the difference. You can't get 2 other good players because (1) The ones with MLS teams are being kept by their teams--they have small rosters and would rather keep the player than get the allocation (2) Ones outside of MLS are hard to sign because (a) you can't pay transfer fees (b) you have a limited number of "discovery" signings.

So how would trading DeRo for a Gargan quality player help the squad?

[Torontotonto]

He looked right at the bench when he did it. He wants a DP contract.

Don't blame him, who else can put the ball in the net ?
Surely not the JDG we have, hell he can't even get the ball today to a red shirt.

[RedsYNWA]

So let me wrap up our situation:
1. We are out of the playoffs
2. dwindling fan base, and detriorating support in the stands
3. Season ticket prices going up
4. FO who has its head up its ass
5. our best player signing imaginary checks to himself while we get embarassed at home
6. Our two highest paid players are not our best players
7. No coach or GM...

I think I am going to go have a cigar and a drink.


AMEN BROTHER:o

[Blizzard]

He shouldn't be. He's the reason we are in this situation.

I mean specifically about DeRo. It's been discussed here how he wanted to get rid of him. He can now say, see, told you so.

[TFCtoMUFC]

He likely will be because one he's the easy option, two he's the cheap option. Wethier or not he's any good as a coach tactically I have no idea.

The players respond to him, he's extremely passionate. The coach can only screw up the team so much until it comes down to the players. Preki probably did the max in terms of screwing up.

[Chevy]

He shouldn't be. He's the reason we are in this situation.

DeRo's actions today lead me to believe that Preki wasn't the only problem in the locker room.

[TFCRegina]

I mean specifically about DeRo. It's been discussed here how he wanted to get rid of him. He can now say, see, told you so.

I don't see that at all.

In fact, just the opposite. I wish players cared that much that they're pissed off that they're doing so much for this club and not getting rewarded for it.

Why should De Ro be happy with being lied to? Why should he be happy with being forced into a system that limits his abilities and thus the abilities of this team to win?

Why should De Ro be happy with being underpaid on a shit team with two Designated Players who do nothing but run aimlessly around the pitch?

Oh and nobody has named those guys who've scored 2 and 5 goals respectively that are better at producing than De Ro.

[ArmenJBX]

JimmyBaldX. You make an awful lot of posts, but you don't seem to understand how MLS works in player acquisitions (mind you, you probably know more than I did at your age).

I've followed MLS since before TFC was ever announced. Unlike hockey, MLS does not have a history of large block trades of players. You cannot trade DeRo for three decent players. You trade him for someone like a Gargan and you get allocation cash for the difference. You can't get 2 other good players because (1) The ones with MLS teams are being kept by their teams--they have small rosters and would rather keep the player than get the allocation (2) Ones outside of MLS are hard to sign because (a) you can't pay transfer fees (b) you have a limited number of "discovery" signings.

So how would trading DeRo for a Gargan quality player help the squad?

Honestly, it's all in ambition.
You need to be ambitious to make a strong team. Yes, you normally get Gargan and allocation money, but that makes us the same as any other team. You need to have that ambition to be better then other franchises. Why can't we make a great trade? If we just assume we can't, we'll never achieve greatness. You need that drive. I'm sorry, but we DESERVE the best players. That means we fight for them, we go after them, and we don't stop until we GET them! :D

I know it's arrogant and unrealistic but maybe we need a dreamer to revolutionize this team. We trade De Rosario to Vancouver and in turn we get their draft pick and their expansion pick. That is possible and is doable and should be attempted. Then we take from others what we want, using a combination of dealing and allocation money.

Can we slip some allocation money to Columbus so that Robbie Rogers is left unprotected, then yank him using an expansion draft swoop they weren't expecting? If we can, we should. Player trading is like war, so if we go in with a strategy on how to get specific players, and execute it, then I can be okay with De Rosario leaving for them.

[Blizzard]

Don't blame him, who else can put the ball in the net ?
Surely not the JDG we have, hell he can't even get the ball today to a red shirt.

That's just about the dumbest thing I've ever read over here.

[Oldtimer]

So let me wrap up our situation:
1. We are out of the playoffs
2. dwindling fan base, and detriorating support in the stands
3. Season ticket prices going up
4. FO who has its head up its ass
5. our best player signing imaginary checks to himself while we get embarassed at home
6. Our two highest paid players are not our best players
7. No coach or GM...

That just about sums it up. Pretty depressing, eh? However RSL was once in our position. However, they had the sense to fire their coach & their GM at the end of season 3.

[TFCtoMUFC]

Other than DeRo we have ONE goal from the midfield. LaBrocca's fluke in the ridiculous wind on May 8th.

[TFC07]

Disagree about Daso. Might be a nice guy but we need a PROVEN manager in this league. I'm sick and tired of us going back to square one. We keep repeating the same mistakes.

Wasn't Perki a proven manager in this league? If you look at New York, they don't seem to have a problem with their manager who has no experience in the leauge.

[Blizzard]

I don't see that at all.

In fact, just the opposite. I wish players cared that much that they're pissed off that they're doing so much for this club and not getting rewarded for it.

Why should De Ro be happy with being lied to? Why should he be happy with being forced into a system that limits his abilities and thus the abilities of this team to win?

Why should De Ro be happy with being underpaid on a shit team with two Designated Players who do nothing but run aimlessly around the pitch?

Oh and nobody has named those guys who've scored 2 and 5 goals respectively that are better at producing than De Ro.

I don't think anybody here has said DeRo should be happy. I consider what he did today after his brilliant goal to be unprofessional. That's DeRo though isn't it. We have to accept the good with the bad. Two rainbow shots and one brilliant goal. The occasional top notch pass versus half a dozen occasions per match when he tries to do everything and runs into trouble with no eyes for teammates wiping out good opportunities for others.

That's DeRo but today he went past that.

In regards to Preki, that's just how Preki thinks. He won't blame himself for anything but will blame anybody else he can.

[TFCRegina]

Wasn't Perki a proven manager in this league? If you look at New York, they don't seem to have a problem with their manager who has no experience in the leauge.

Shh! Don't tell people facts, it messes with their ridiculous stereotypes.

[jimiv]

Other than DeRo we have ONE goal from the midfield. LaBrocca's fluke in the ridiculous wind on May 8th.

DeRo has 3 assists this year, maybe if he passed to open players instead of trying to be the hero the other players would be scoring more often.

:drum:

[TFCRegina]

DeRo has 3 assists this year, maybe if he passed to open players instead of trying to be the hero the other players would be scoring more often.

:drum:

Yeah and if pigs had wings, we'd all carry umbrellas, your point is?

Even in situations where the "other players" you mention would be scoring, they screw it up. Has everyone forgotten all the missed chances in that RSL Champions League match?

Sure it wasn't De Ro passing, but they can't even score on simple setups without tripping over their own feet.

Your point is pointless, you argument doesn't make any sense at all.

[Roogsy]

Even in situations where the "other players" you mention would be scoring, they screw it up. Has everyone forgotten all the missed chances in that RSL Champions League match?

Sure it wasn't De Ro passing, but they can't even score on simple setups without tripping over their own feet.




There is plenty of passing going on in this team but only one guy is scoring. That kind of proves the end of that silly argument doesn't it?

Peterson hitting the side netting from 6 yards out with the nearest Quake player a good 3 yards away from him says it all.

[TFCtoMUFC]

DeRo has 3 assists this year, maybe if he passed to open players instead of trying to be the hero the other players would be scoring more often.

:drum:

Dero is the only guy who scores. Do you now expect him to assist his own goals?

[bgnewf]

shit response from the club today.

It IS official by the way. Mista IS the biggest/most expensive bust in TFC historyl

Come on Champions League!!!

[mclaren]

Wasn't Perki a proven manager in this league? If you look at New York, they don't seem to have a problem with their manager who has no experience in the leauge.

I personally would have given Preki more time - the rot came from the top - Mo Johnston.

[Blizzard]

shit response from the club today.

It IS official by the way. Mista IS the biggest/most expensive bust in TFC historyl

Come on Champions League!!!

Ya maybe so but Mista also made a great play to set up DeRo's goal. Some good dribbling outside the box as DeRo got into position to receive a nice little pass that he was able to loft into the far left corner. It was a world class goal and Mista deserves credit for setting it up.

[Blizzard]

I have not had a chance to review the CBA in detail, but my understanding is that what changed with the guarantee is that they are now guaranteed on an annual basis as opposed to only half-seasons like before. I think players who have mutli-year contracts can still be released.

Unless they are guaranteed contracts .... a guarantee agreed upon in the contract.

JDG is one of those ... and there are others.

[Roogsy]

Ya maybe so but Mista also made a great play to set up DeRo's goal. Some good dribbling outside the box as DeRo got into position to receive a nice little pass that he was able to loft into the far left corner. It was a world class goal and Mista deserves credit for setting it up.


He should.




But let's take this argument for a second and take it to it's natural evolution. Does any other player score that goal? Like the names dropped here...Gargan, Cann, Nana, Barrett....even JDG? Who scores that goal?

Take a look at that goal again and let me know your answer. Then I hope you also have your answer about the DP issue.

[Beach_Red]

So let me wrap up our situation:
1. We are out of the playoffs
2. dwindling fan base, and detriorating support in the stands
3. Season ticket prices going up
4. FO who has its head up its ass
5. our best player signing imaginary checks to himself while we get embarassed at home
6. Our two highest paid players are not our best players
7. No coach or GM...

I think I am going to go have a cigar and a drink.

So, the "good news" would be this is the point where MLSE get out the chequebook and hire a real manager. This is the Leafs at the end of the JFJ era when they handed over the team to the only guy available who had recently won a cup.

[TFCtoMUFC]

Got to meet my favourite TFC player ever again today.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa19/jussijokinencollector36/IMG_0095.jpg

[Blizzard]

He should.




But let's take this argument for a second and take it to it's natural evolution. Does any other player score that goal? Like the names dropped here...Gargan, Cann, Nana, Barrett....even JDG? Who scores that goal?

Take a look at that goal again and let me know your answer. Then I hope you also have your answer about the DP issue.

Only by fluke. Mista might as he has the sweetness of touch but deRo is the guy most likely to do it.

Roogsy, I've never said DeRo doesn't deserve more money. What I have said is that he picked the wrong time and place to do it. That was an unprofessional thing to do. Alex Ferguson would fire a shoe at him for that.

[Chevy]

Got to meet my favourite TFC player ever again today.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa19/jussijokinencollector36/IMG_0095.jpg

Salt in the wounds man. Salt in the wounds. :)

[Heart of Stone]

Mista and Santos are utter shite ... so many missed headers... lazy + lack of passion... we need to get rid of them...

[Blizzard]

Mista and Santos are utter shite ... so many missed headers... lazy + lack of passion... we need to get rid of them...

... and without them, we lose 3 nil today. I don't totally disagree with your feelings as I too was getting frustrated by the missed free headers but Mista did set up DeRo and Maicon did score our second.

Just sayin'!

[Roogsy]

I found a couple of things interesting.

1) The lack of debate over the penalty kick. Our boys starting off the game a goal under isn't an issue? I am not even sure that was a penalty, it's hard to see.

2) Regardless if it was a penalty, there is one thing that IS obvious. Gargan lost the ball and then possibly fouled the Quake player in the box. And yet nobody says boo. I am finding the "Gargan-love" a bit much. I don't see what exactly he has done for this team other than work hard, which I do appreciate. He is technically inferior. Physically inferior. And today put us in a position to be down a goal before people were even seated. But not a boo.

But DeRo scores a goal, makes a gesture and we cry for him to be shipped out.

This city drives me crazy. We don't deserve star players. We should be punished with grinders and plumbers on ALL our sports teams and damned to an eternity of mediocrity.

I am glad Gretzky never played here.

I am glad we never got a chance to draft Crosby or Wade.

I am glad Doc went to Philly.

Toronto fans deserve what we get.






Good night all...