Toronto starts from scratch again

[Pyeddo]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/steve_davis/09/17/toronto.failure/index.html

[Darlofletch]

could not agree more. can i sign up for membership just to have this entire post as my signature?

[DangerRed]

Great article. I said it before and I'll say again, I'm all for sacking Preki -- but at the end of the season, not 24 games into it. That said, if there was a blowup, maybe it simply couldn't wait.

We now have a new guy in place who'll have to try to turn chicken shit into chicken salad with very limited time, a lot of pressure and no new resources.

[J .]

Yup Yup Yup.

Says it all.

But guys, didnt you know its not JDG, Mistas or DeRos fault.... NAwwwwwwwwwwww

[Hitcho]

could not agree more. can i sign up for membership just to have this entire post as my signature?

Yes.











(Note to RPB leadership, don't tell him the signature limit is 4 lines until after he's coughed up the money...)

:D

[Hitcho]

Great article. I said it before and I'll say again, I'm all for sacking Preki -- but at the end of the season, not 24 games into it. That said, if there was a blowup, maybe it simply couldn't wait.

We now have a new guy in place who'll have to try to turn chicken shit into chicken salad with very limited time, a lot of pressure and no new resources.

I don't think Daso is under any pressure to be honest. The reason Mo and Preki got sacked was because the season had fallen apart and in Mo's case
the squad building was a disaster. The whole problem was that we're neck deep in shit and need a new GM, new head coach and new players. That hardly adds up to a lot of pressure on Dasovic. He's almost in a no-lose situation, since Anselmi said on live tv they want to keep him and groom him for the future.

If Daso wins, he's a hero. If he loses, well everyone expected that anyway and he still keeps his assistant job.

[los sonadores]

If Johnson goes, Preki must as well. He's Mo's boy and he's had a big input on who his players are. I don't see the point in keeping Preki under the circumstances. You'd have to find a 'GM' who wanted to play by Preki-ball rules. (That might leave us with Frank Klopas!).

Of course Johnson should never have been hired in the first place. I cringe when I hear MLSE are looking to the league for input on the new personnel - MLSE have been so consistently clueless about making the right hires. They display amazing incompetence, and need better guidance than the league.

The thing that stood out for me is this:

"No MLS team yet has required more than four seasons in existence to break the postseason seal. And just one club previously has missed the playoffs four seasons in a row, as TFC seems bound to do."

[J .]

Dasovic is a weasel and a puppet for DeRo.

[Lucky Strike]

The OP is exactly how I feel about Preki's dismissal. I was very upset when I found out he was fired. You can't just constantly "start over".

[menefreghista]

We had to start over anyways because we had to fire Mo Johnston. I know some of the pro-Preki posters have this dream that he could have survived longer than Johnston but it was not meant to be. The two had their fates intertwined.

I would rather our next GM gets to pick his own coach and wasn't forced to keep Preki.

[Pyeddo]

As said above but in different words, how can the new GM impart their own vision for the team when they're forced to keep certain members of the management team, squad, etc...

I just makes sense to clean house, however the timing of this blow-up can definitely be argued

[menefreghista]

As said above but in different words, how can the new GM impart their own vision for the team when they're forced to keep certain members of the management team, squad, etc...

I just makes sense to clean house, however the timing of this blow-up can definitely be argued

I personally think the timing was linked to the upcoming season ticket renewal notices.

TFC FO is going to sell us on hope once again and they just couldn't do it with the most recent results. The DCU game being the straw that broke the camels back.

[Blizzard]

Dasovic is a weasel and a puppet for DeRo.

That is total b.s.

[menefreghista]

That is total b.s.

I agree.

Seems there are a few posters here who loved Preki so much that they are trying to sully the names of others for no good reason or with no real facts.

[Pyeddo]

TFC FO is going to sell us on hope once again and they just couldn't do it with the most recent results.

Couldn't agree more... Its MLSE's modus operandi

[DichioTFC]

I understand what MLSE was doing with chopping Mo, but they extended themselves too far in firing Preki.

With MLSE's mismanagement and Preki's dismissal and questioning of JDG as a player / DeRo as a captain, how can I convince anyone to support this team? The team is literally in shambles. I'm not against 'inmates running the asylum,' but the boys got a tough boss? Boo fucking hoo. You didn't agree with his tactics? Retire and become a coach if you know better.

I didn't agree with the moves Preki made, but time should've been given for us to see how his plan could've went. What coach wants to go to a place where the last coach was undermined?

First MoJo cut Cummins legs out from under him, then the players tattle on Preki. Now they have a situation that *theoretically* should be ideal (coach they want, formation they want, starting XI they want, type of oranges at halftime they want) and they shat the bed... not just *lost* but looked like they totally didn't want to be there.

Ridiculous.

[J .]

That is total b.s.


You cant prove it isnt and there is more in the situation to show that he was.

[Blizzard]

You cant prove it isnt and there is more in the situation to show that he was.

I disagree. What has Dasovic ever done to make you think that this is what he is? If Preki was so badly wronged in this situation, why is Leo (is assistant from Chivas who came up with Preki) still here? Why did he not support his pal and leave with him?

You're talking through your ass.

[Darlofletch]

As said above but in different words, how can the new GM impart their own vision for the team when they're forced to keep certain members of the management team, squad, etc...

I just makes sense to clean house, however the timing of this blow-up can definitely be argued

Preki didn't get that chance, what makes you think anyone else will? what if new guy wants to get rid of anselmi's pet canadian projects?

[v00d00daddy]

Preki didn't get that chance, what makes you think anyone else will? what if new guy wants to get rid of anselmi's pet canadian projects?

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.


We had to start over anyways because we had to fire Mo Johnston. I know some of the pro-Preki posters have this dream that he could have survived longer than Johnston but it was not meant to be. The two had their fates intertwined.

I would rather our next GM gets to pick his own coach and wasn't forced to keep Preki.

I agree that their fates were intertwined. That's why I assumed that if Mo was fired it would be in the off season and maybe they would go with Preki as coach while they look for a replacement for Mo.

I hope the new GM gets to pick his coach too but remember....Preki was asked to take on Daso and the rest of the staff when he was hired. How in God's name can we think that's not going to happen again? Anselmi has already said that Daso is being kept around.

So how much of a chance does the new coach stand when we've already seen that, IF the players don't like the coach they'll simply whine and cry until they get the man they want. Most likely Daso.

That's why this is so fucked up. Everybody thinks it's great that we're "cleaning house" but we've done nothing close to that.

Cleaning house would be firing Mo, Preki and the entire staff. A move that could only be done in the off season. Which makes sense.

What was done earlier this week was done in a panic to placate to both the players, and the supporters who love them. It's sad to see.

Preki will be re-hired in MLS.

Other coaches in MLS (Kreis for example) are going to see TFC as a laughing stock and a place where coach comes in with a target on his back.

So tell me again who's going to be lining up to take on the GM or coaching spot here?

Thought so.

Brennan and Daso...mark my words.

[J .]

I disagree. What has Dasovic ever done to make you think that this is what he is? If Preki was so badly wronged in this situation, why is Leo (is assistant from Chivas who came up with Preki) still here? Why did he not support his pal and leave with him?

You're talking through your ass.


The only people who have come out against Preki as players were DeRo, Mista, JDG and allegedly Daso who was in Vancouver. Why would Leo leave right now, he is getting paid to do a job.

Start adding things up. Youre a smart boy.

But nawwwwwww, DeRo and JDGs pick to be manager, the guy who had a falling out with Preki wouldnt have schemed to get the coach out early... No way.

[Stryker]

The only people who have come out against Preki as players were DeRo, Mista, JDG and allegedly Daso who was in Vancouver. Why would Leo leave right now, he is getting paid to do a job.

Start adding things up. Youre a smart boy.

But nawwwwwww, DeRo and JDGs pick to be manager, the guy who had a falling out with Preki wouldnt have schemed to get the coach out early... No way.

If you added things up you'd realize they're also the few players who don't have to worry so much about an income.

[DangerRed]

I don't think Daso is under any pressure to be honest. The reason Mo and Preki got sacked was because the season had fallen apart and in Mo's case
the squad building was a disaster. The whole problem was that we're neck deep in shit and need a new GM, new head coach and new players. That hardly adds up to a lot of pressure on Dasovic. He's almost in a no-lose situation, since Anselmi said on live tv they want to keep him and groom him for the future.

If Daso wins, he's a hero. If he loses, well everyone expected that anyway and he still keeps his assistant job.

You and I are obviously talking about different kinds of pressure. As a supporter, I was speaking about pressure from fans to win. I couldn't honestly give a quarter of a shit whether Dasovic keeps his job after this season unless he's doing well. I also don't care if they want to groom him. I want him to make the team successful, now. Not later.

And you better believe that if this season ends in tears, that "grooming" of Daso will take much, much longer than if we squeeze into the playoffs somehow (which I don't think will happen).

[Savage]

Dasovic is a weasel and a puppet for DeRo.

Nonsense, Daso is a straight shooter and a gentleman. Preki and Mo were fired because the results were not there. They spent the money and brought in the players who are not MLS calibre. Having said that, I am not defending DeRo and JDG or disagreeing with Preki's insistence on hard work, but the style of play was unwatchable under Preki. Also, he was a PR disaster and when the decision was made to fire Mo, Preki got caught inthe crossfire.

[ArmenJBX]

Keep rationalizing on both sides, it doesn't change anything.

We are still the same shit before as we are now, and it's not going to get any better until a new team of management is brought in. Daso is going to be a pushover for the likes of De Rosario, Preki was too hard on them, blah blah blah. All of this is nonsense, the players are just not good enough and need to step it up.

[Blizzard]

The only people who have come out against Preki as players were DeRo, Mista, JDG and allegedly Daso who was in Vancouver. Why would Leo leave right now, he is getting paid to do a job.

Start adding things up. Youre a smart boy.

But nawwwwwww, DeRo and JDGs pick to be manager, the guy who had a falling out with Preki wouldnt have schemed to get the coach out early... No way.

I'm smart enough to realize that you're out to lunch.

You mean come out in public? Why should they? Surely you're clever enough to realize that not everybody is going to come out publicly. You're making a very major allegation about Dasovic with zero to back it up. DeRo and JDG were the only players to speak out publicly on Tuesday because they were the only two players that the club arranged to speak to the media and as captain and first alternate captain, not to mention being local guys, that made sense.

[Blizzard]

Nonsense, Daso is a straight shooter and a gentleman. Preki and Mo were fired because the results were not there. They spent the money and brought in the players who are not MLS calibre. Having said that, I am not defending DeRo and JDG or disagreeing with Preki's insistence on hard work, but the style of play was unwatchable under Preki. Also, he was a PR disaster and when the decision was made to fire Mo, Preki got caught inthe crossfire.

Tactics were a major failing of Preki. For the first time on Wednesday night, we saw Peterson being played as a winger and it was probably his best game with TFC. He sent in some decent crosses from the right wing, something he hadn't done much of at all since coming here.

I don't think it's a coincidence. A fresh outlook from the bench.

[J .]

I'm smart enough to realize that you're out to lunch.

You mean come out in public? Why should they? Surely you're clever enough to realize that not everybody is going to come out publicly. You're making a very major allegation about Dasovic with zero to back it up. DeRo and JDG were the only players to speak out publicly on Tuesday because they were the only two players that the club arranged to speak to the media and as captain and first alternate captain, not to mention being local guys, that made sense.

I'm not the only one, Preki made the same insinuation. Are you saying Preki isn't a straight shooter? He was the only one who was saying it wouldnt be a lock to make the playoffs while everyone else was saying the team was good enough to make it, he was the only one saying he was unsure and a lot of work had to go in.

Right, he couldnt possibly be telling the truth. Nope. Preki has a massive history of lying.

Believe what you want, but you are wrong. A coach who came from the CSA isnt the first person I am going to trust.

[J .]

Tactics were a major failing of Preki. For the first time on Wednesday night, we saw Peterson being played as a winger and it was probably his best game with TFC. He sent in some decent crosses from the right wing, something he hadn't done much of at all since coming here.

I don't think it's a coincidence. A fresh outlook from the bench.


Do you watch the games? Peterson has played almost always as a winger. He played -once- as a striker.

Thanks.

[ArmenJBX]

I'd rather have Peterson and LaBrocca then De Rosario and de Guzman.

You'll hate me now but in 2 years I'll be bringing this post back just to gloat :)

[Blizzard]

Do you watch the games? Peterson has played almost always as a winger. He played -once- as a striker.

Thanks.

Thanks to you too, but he was rarely played as a true winger. If you have been watching, you know Preki had him cutting inside and not playing as what most of us would consider a true winger. Dasovic had him playing more to the outside down the line and sending in crosses from the outside and he did it pretty well. His good work was commented upon by a few people here. I considered it to be Peterson's first good game for TFC.

One of the great annoyances about Preki's team was the lack of wing play. We always blamed the players. We had more wing play against RSL and it had some impact. Peterson may have found his niche assuming that Dasovic continues to have him play in this role.

[J .]

Thanks to you too, but he was rarely played as a true winger. If you have been watching, you know Preki had him cutting inside and not playing as what most of us would consider a true winger. Dasovic had him playing more to the outside down the line and sending in crosses from the outside and he did it pretty well. His good work was commented upon by a few people here. I considered it to be Peterson's first good game for TFC.

One of the great annoyances about Preki's team was the lack of wing play. We always blamed the players. We had more wing play against RSL and it had some impact. Peterson may have found his niche assuming that Dasovic continues to have him play in this role.


For Peterson, the gaps he was leaving pressing up opened up us so bad anything he could have done that was good was undid. Also, technically he was actually playing as a midfielder, yes he got forward much more in an attacking role once RSL began to start adding goals.

In addition, I would say there was very little difference to his normal play aside from pressing up farther than norma creating nothing except space for RSL to exploit behind him. The entire Toronto midfield was guilty of that.

Ive bemoaned our lack of wing play since season one but peterson is not the answer. If that was a "good" game, then we are in trouble like we have been. He lacks any quality in the final third that would indicate he would be.

If thats the type of football TFC is going to play, with that type of players, then we are pooched. Square peg, meet round hole. Cann is too slow footed to play this style, as is Gargan, Harden and Attakora. Our defenders are strong and really are at their worst when defenders run at them. Our defense lacks the pace to keep up with this style.

We have yet to develop a defensive culture and late game character so like RSL, we can bounce back from going down, a character test TFC has failed throughout these past two months.

Its easy for TFC to give up and say the season is over. Lets make it easy for DeRo and JDG to say its not their fault and the season is a write off.

However like Ive said over and over, three different coaches, three different times they were called on during important moments and they failed. No one but themselves are at fault.

But its never DeRo or JDG...RSL went down, Beckerman, Johnson, Findlay and Williams stepped up... What did JDG, DeRo, Mista, or OBW do when it became a test of their character?

4-1 on the bad side was the result.

They have the rest of the season to play winning football. They quit in NY and they already quit this season. Its a sorry fucking excuse for Professionalism.

Our best have not been accountable for their actions for two seasons. DeRo and JDG.... Who cares if they are not worried about money, they leaders of the team and in these past two year have been a joke of professionalism. Where do these guys go when it counts?

Everyone says its Mo. If DeRo was sulking these past two months because he didnt like the manager, he can fuck off.

We pay and pour our hearts out and if he quit cause there was a "rift" then fuck him.

If they do not step up and produce these final games they do not deserve to suit up in our colours again just like Mo never deserves to manage our team or Preki our players.

[Redcoe15]

You cant prove it isnt and there is more in the situation to show that he was.
Such as...?

Give us some actual hard evidence, and not the hot air that's coming out of your ass, or crawl back under your rock.

[Wull]

I'd rather have Peterson and LaBrocca then De Rosario and de Guzman.

You'll hate me now but in 2 years I'll be bringing this post back just to gloat :)


teenagers need to lock their phones and/or computers when drinking :picard:

[Oldtimer]

We have yet to develop a defensive culture and late game character so like RSL, we can bounce back from going down, a character test TFC has failed throughout these past two months.


It didn't take to long for this Preki apologist quoted above to be proven wrong. :rolleyes:


Such as...?

Give us some actual hard evidence, and not the hot air that's coming out of your ass, or crawl back under your rock.

Good call... it's easy for people to imagine conspiracy theories who have absolutely no connection to the dressing room.

Here's my conspiracy theory: J. is really Preki.

[TFCRegina]

^^^

The best part about this whole thing is that we really aren't starting from scratch "all over again."

The team is still together. In theory the person who started from scratch from the beginning was named Preki. Preki blew up a team that was 1 point from playoffs last year, and rebuilt it.

While I applauded many of his removals, he simply brought in people who were (in my opinion) of the same quality that he dumped.

At the end of the day, his system didn't work, or the players weren't right. Changes needed to be made. Since we've already tried the changing players routine four years straight, we need to explore a new alternative...like firing the idiots running the madhouse.

[TFCRegina]

I'd rather have Peterson and LaBrocca then De Rosario and de Guzman.

You'll hate me now but in 2 years I'll be bringing this post back just to gloat :)

So you'd rather have a useless player on the wing, and a guy who can't take a corner for the life of him over our top scorer and a player from one of the biggest leagues in the World?

[Pachuco]

I'd rather have Peterson and LaBrocca then De Rosario and de Guzman.

You'll hate me now but in 2 years I'll be bringing this post back just to gloat :)

I'm sure you know by now my feelings on JDG. That being said, it is just down right silly and absurd that you would take Peterson and Labrocca over Dero and JDG. I wouldn't take Peterson AND Labrocca over JDG alone.

[ArmenJBX]

Yeah I'm looking back at that now... really dumb thing to say :D

[James17930]

I like Steve Davis generally but he gets a lot of things wrong in this article.

- He completely ignores the possibility of big locker room problems with Preki, instead focusing only on the win/loss record and then calling the firing a mistake;

- He uses the whole 'JDG hasn't scored' argument, which everyone should know by now is stupid because that's not what JDG is for (debating the merits of JDG's holding play is another issue);

- He says Mo was convivial and got along with everybody . . . um, does he not know who Ali Gerba and Carl Robinson are?

Journos should either do better research before they write their articles, or else just refrain from writing about teams they aren't familiar with.

[ag futbol]

Yeah, he gets a lot of the "small" details wrong that throw him way off what actually happened here. He completely misses the positional imbalance and lack of foresight behind the way Mo Johnston did business.

It wasn't just that he turned over the roster all the time (and the players were bad), it was often we were left with a lack of defenders, lack of quality strikers, and we've never had enough wingers.

Similarly with Preki, he's missing the fact he's clashed with some of he bigger egos on his teams continuously (and was generally disliked). And as much as Mista hasn't fit in, he was in camp with us for weeks, don't you think that would be a good test run for the coach to tell whether he could work with him or not?