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jloome
09-17-2010, 11:22 AM
Dude is 33 next year. He has technical skills up the wazoo and people here love him because he scores goals. But I'd submit:

a) He's lost speed. He's nowhere near as effective running at guys as he was even two years ago.

b) He hogs the ball mercilessly. We get on other players for missing open men, but DeRo doesn't even look for them.

c) He is ridiculously overconfident. This is a guy who once said he thought he had the skill to maybe play for Real Madrid one day and who was shocked and disappointed when we lost 5-1 to that same team.

d) He doesn't track back well and he can't tackle

e) He drifts terribly out of position, throwing team shape out of wack and leaving coverage holes tracking back.

and of course f) he's the only player on the team able to create a goal out of nothing.


Everyone here loves the guy. But I really believe people are missing the big picture, that for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play. We should be using him the same way San Jose did, as a supersub when we need a second-half goal.

Otherwise, performances like the other night -- and that's not the first real clunker he's had this year -- are going to become the norm. Plus, the guy's 33 next year.

Menelaos
09-17-2010, 11:27 AM
Not 33!!

Crap we better get rid of the best player on our team, who despite 'perhaps' having lost a step, is still the player who uses that speed to chase down the ball on offense and defense. The one who scores most of our goals, is a leader on and off the field, and loves playing for us.

Yup, we should be looking at his age and not what, at 33, he still brings to our team.
How old is Henry again? Maybe NYC should consider how many steps he has lost.

*sigh*

jloome
09-17-2010, 11:36 AM
Not 33!!

Crap we better get rid of the best player on our team, who despite 'perhaps' having lost a step, is still the player who uses that speed to chase down the ball on offense and defense. The one who scores most of our goals, is a leader on and off the field, and loves playing for us.

Yup, we should be looking at his age and not what, at 33, he still brings to our team.
How old is Henry again? Maybe NYC should consider how many steps he has lost.

*sigh*

What the fuck are you sighing for?

1) He's never been Thierry Henry. Stupid comparison.

2) How the fuck do you know he's "a leader on and off field?" What evidence of this can you cite, exactly, since we know squat about what happens off field. In fact, that kind of jingoism proves you're not even thinking about the question.

3) When does DeRo "chase down" anything on defence?

You're entire answer is fiction, other than the "score goals" part, which while I'll concede is important, is not the sole responsibility of a midfielder.

Juanito
09-17-2010, 11:44 AM
As much as I love De Rosario, if we can trade him for some younger players to release cap space, then so be it.

If we CAN NOT win with De Rosario, what would you rather have? The hometown boy or a winning team? If you only had to pick one, which one would it be?

This is going to be a tough decision for the new GM. The fans are restless, we are demanding results. If guys like De Rosario and De Gúzman can not succeed in Toronto, hard decisions have to be made.

David_Oliveira
09-17-2010, 11:46 AM
Dude is 33 next year. He has technical skills up the wazoo and people here love him because he scores goals. But I'd submit:

a) He's lost speed. He's nowhere near as effective running at guys as he was even two years ago.

b) He hogs the ball mercilessly. We get on other players for missing open men, but DeRo doesn't even look for them.

c) He is ridiculously overconfident. This is a guy who once said he thought he had the skill to maybe play for Real Madrid one day and who was shocked and disappointed when we lost 5-1 to that same team.

d) He doesn't track back well and he can't tackle

e) He drifts terribly out of position, throwing team shape out of wack and leaving coverage holes tracking back.

and of course f) he's the only player on the team able to create a goal out of nothing.


Everyone here loves the guy. But I really believe people are missing the big picture, that for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play. We should be using him the same way San Jose did, as a supersub when we need a second-half goal.

Otherwise, performances like the other night -- and that's not the first real clunker he's had this year -- are going to become the norm. Plus, the guy's 33 next year.

I have to agree, even if I think he is our best player. As of late he is coming off as having a "Hollier Than Thou" attitude on the field. I think he might have another year left in the tank though. As this league grows, so does the talent. I'm sure there will be better out there for us. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone available/willing to come in. But what's to say that this winter FO doesn't find that player? I will leave it in the upcoming coaches hands. You can't teach a 33 year old a different system. Look at what happened with Preki. I think it is safe to assume his style and system (as bad as it was) fit with the current bunch. We need to give the next coach and GM the respect to make their own decisions. They will have a vision and we need to trust it.

STB
09-17-2010, 11:47 AM
I have always seen DeRo as the 'best kid in school'

Why the hell should he pass to OBW when he knows he has a better chance of scoring...

jloome
09-17-2010, 11:50 AM
I have to agree, even if I think he is our best player. As of late he is coming off as having a "Hollier Than Thou" attitude on the field. I think he might have another year left in the tank though. As this league grows, so does the talent. I'm sure there will be better out there for us. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone available/willing to come in. But what's to say that this winter FO doesn't find that player? I will leave it in the upcoming coaches hands. You can't teach a 33 year old a different system. Look at what happened with Preki. I think it is safe to assume his style and system (as bad as it was) fit with the current bunch. We need to give the next coach and GM the respect to make their own decisions. They will have a vision and we need to trust it.

Ok, so what do we do with him know. His strengths and limitations, to me, suggest he should be one of our starting strikers. But that's not his preference, and I wonder if Dasovic will buy his usual request to play in the hole?

Beach_Red
09-17-2010, 11:51 AM
As much as I love De Rosario, if we can trade him for some younger players to release cap space, then so be it.

If we CAN NOT win with De Rosario, what would you rather have? The hometown boy or a winning team? If you only had to pick one, which one would it be?

This is going to be a tough decision for the new GM. The fans are restless, we are demanding results. If guys like De Rosario and De Gúzman can not succeed in Toronto, hard decisions have to be made.


If the new GM gets to make it. As Peddie said, business is easier than sports. I guess he meant the decisions are easier to make in business - you can get the home town hero, the championship, that's a lot harder and there are no guarantees....

mastermixer
09-17-2010, 11:52 AM
This team is a mess and yes it can be argued both ways that DeRo may be the wrong leader for this team. My take is that he has the most heart out of anyone on that pitch. The guy has been playing all year non-stop. Everyone else has been either replaced in the starting 11 or been injured but he's been the constant on this team since 1st kick. I think the combo of heavy sched and Preki's whip might have worn him down a little.

Hitcho
09-17-2010, 11:56 AM
Trade him for what though? Who is going to give us anything worth having for a 33 year old non-US player with a huge salary?

In effect, the answer comes down to "would you rather have De Ro or nothing". So unless you can bring in someone to reaplce what he does on the team, the answer has to be keep him, because if you turn his stats to nil in the goals and assists column, we'd probably be dead last in the league.

EDIT - and agree with the comments about his heart being one of (if not the) biggest on the pitch, we'd need that to be replaced too...

David_Oliveira
09-17-2010, 11:59 AM
Ok, so what do we do with him know. His strengths and limitations, to me, suggest he should be one of our starting strikers. But that's not his preference, and I wonder if Dasovic will buy his usual request to play in the hole?

Short Term: I think he is most dangerous behind the strikers, but with only one decent striker fit, I would put him in as a striker playing slightly infront of Maicon.

Long Term: Let the GM and Coach decide. If we are faced with Dero or a "Henry-Type" or even Juan Pablo Type (when he came over) DP Striker...no brainer new Striker. It will be truely sad to see him leave but if we improve, what is the problem with that?

MartinUtd
09-17-2010, 11:59 AM
Keep him until we can get JDG2 as a direct replacement :D

Didn't both De Guzman's say they wanted to play on the same team one day?

David_Oliveira
09-17-2010, 12:01 PM
Trade him for what though? Who is going to give us anything worth having for a 33 year old non-US player with a huge salary?

In effect, the answer comes down to "would you rather have De Ro or nothing". So unless you can bring in someone to reaplce what he does on the team, the answer has to be keep him, because if you turn his stats to nil in the goals and assists column, we'd probably be dead last in the league.

EDIT - and agree with the comments about his heart being one of (if not the) biggest on the pitch, we'd need that to be replaced too...

I'm almost positive that the Domestic/Non-Demestic rule is being altered for TFC? is this happening elsewhere in the league?

scooterTFC
09-17-2010, 12:01 PM
I agree that he’s probably not the ideal guy to where the captain’s armband. His game is what it is, a hot/cold streaky kind of scorer, he’s a little selfish with the ball, a little awkward in his style of play, he looks to shoot over pass, and he’ll shoot from anywhere on the pitch (literally anywhere). When he’s hot and the ball is going in the net for him he’s ‘electric’ and everybody loves him. When he inevitably goes cold at some point each season he’s ‘selfish’ and people tend to question both his game and his character. He’s a talented athlete who can at times dominate games… just not every game. Some people have been quick to pile on the anti-Dero camp lately and I think that’s unfortunate.

I was picking my 4 year old kid up from pre-school yesterday and as I arrived the kids were starting a game of soccer. It was the kind of game little kids play where they spend more time talking then playing… the start of the action was delayed by at least 5 mins as 3 kids fought over who got to be the imaginary ‘Dero’. One of the losers of the argument had to settle for Messi instead. Its really cool having a hometown soccer hero… lets not kill that in the usual Toronto way.

maninb
09-17-2010, 12:06 PM
he may be Captain but he's certainly not a leader in the dressing room, according to DeVos and Robbo....remember when he threw his teammates under the bus at the end of last year....players NEVER forget shit like that....

Thrillos
09-17-2010, 12:06 PM
I have to completely disagree with this thread entirely. Where would we be in the standings if dero wasn't here this season. It disgust's me how quickly people forget performance from a player 2 months ago. How many of his goals at the beginning of the season gave us a one goal advantage for the one, I would say almost all of them.

I never want to get rid of him until he is a liability on the field to the same degree Garcia is now. Why? Because he plays for the badge and the flag on his shoulder with everything he has, no matter how old he is. (which doesn't mean shit, check the juve europa league highlights, Del Piero just scored another wonder goal at 35 and 10months!!!!!!)

I'll take his drive and determination game in and game out even when he is 2 steps slower.

Thrillos
09-17-2010, 12:08 PM
I was picking my 4 year old kid up from pre-school yesterday and as I arrived the kids were starting a game of soccer. It was the kind of game little kids play where they spend more time talking then playing… the start of the action was delayed by at least 5 mins as 3 kids fought over who got to be the imaginary ‘Dero’. One of the losers of the argument had to settle for Messi instead. Its really cool having a hometown soccer hero… lets not kill that in the usual Toronto way.

+100000%

Wooster_TFC
09-17-2010, 12:10 PM
The biggest concern I have with DeRo is his ego. It comes out in his game play, it comes out in his comments to the media, and it comes out in his "leadership".

Personally, I think he's a ball hog who generally speaking gives the all away at the most inopportune times, and is a shoot-first player. That said, when he's hot, he's one of the best players in the league. No way would I give him DP status, no way would I keep him as captain, but, I'd more than happily keep him around if he takes a pay cut. I'm not sure when his contract is up, but his next one shouldn't be for more than 300k max.

ManUtd4ever
09-17-2010, 12:10 PM
Dude is 33 next year. He has technical skills up the wazoo and people here love him because he scores goals. But I'd submit:

a) He's lost speed. He's nowhere near as effective running at guys as he was even two years ago.

b) He hogs the ball mercilessly. We get on other players for missing open men, but DeRo doesn't even look for them.

c) He is ridiculously overconfident. This is a guy who once said he thought he had the skill to maybe play for Real Madrid one day and who was shocked and disappointed when we lost 5-1 to that same team.

d) He doesn't track back well and he can't tackle

e) He drifts terribly out of position, throwing team shape out of wack and leaving coverage holes tracking back.

and of course f) he's the only player on the team able to create a goal out of nothing.


Everyone here loves the guy. But I really believe people are missing the big picture, that for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play. We should be using him the same way San Jose did, as a supersub when we need a second-half goal.

Otherwise, performances like the other night -- and that's not the first real clunker he's had this year -- are going to become the norm. Plus, the guy's 33 next year.

DeRo has flaws in his game like anyone else and perhaps he has lost a step but he has still been the most prolific scorer and undisputed MVP for TFC since he joined the club.

DeRo is prone to defensive lapses but that has never been his strength which is why he is renowned for his offensive prowress.

DeRo is overconfident but that is a quality I want in an attacking midfielder.

DeRo does try to create his own scoring chances but I wouldn't suggest that he is a selfish player. During his tenure with TFC I can recall countless scoring opportunities that he has generated for his teammates with tremendous vision. In my opinion, DeRo provides the most accurate through balls on our entire squad but this aspect of his game is not appreciated in Toronto because of the lack of finishers on the club. Barrett is probably the only player on the team that has been able to capitalize on DeRo's playmaking abilities with any semblence of consistency this season.

In any case, whether he is appreciated or not, I believe if DeRo leaves TFC it will be of his own volition and it would be to the deteriment of the organization moving forward...

Thrillos
09-17-2010, 12:13 PM
I love how people are calling for a pay cut now, when 2 months ago everyone was on board to make him our 3rd DP because he deserved the money......

Wooster_TFC
09-17-2010, 12:13 PM
DeRo has flaws in his game like anyone else and perhaps he has lost a step but he has still been the most prolific scorer and undisputed MVP for TFC since he joined the club.

DeRo is prone to defensive lapses but that has never been his strength which is why he is renowned for his offensive prowress.

DeRo is overconfident but that is a quality I want in an attacking midfielder.

DeRo does try to create his own scoring chances but I wouldn't suggest that he is a selfish player. During his tenure with TFC I can recall countless scoring opportunities that he has generated for his teammates with tremendous vision. In my opinion, DeRo provides the most accurate through balls on our entire squad but this aspect of his game is not appreciated in Toronto because of the lack of finishers on the club. Barrett is probably the only player on the team that has been able to capitalize on DeRo's playmaking abilities with any semblence of consistency this season.

In any case, whether he is appreciated or not, I believe if DeRo leaves TFC it will be of his own volition and to the deteriment of the orgqanization moving forward...

Frei has to be the undisputed MVP this year, so I don't know about that.

Fort York Redcoat
09-17-2010, 12:17 PM
I love how people are calling for a pay cut now, when 2 months ago everyone was on board to make him our 3rd DP because he deserved the money......

WADR 2 months ago our playoff prospects were a lot better. Now a majority of people see that if anything we'd like to lower JDG's salary to DeRo's not the reverse. They're both good but if they're the best on the team it's just not good enough in many peoples eyes.

Beach_Red
09-17-2010, 12:19 PM
The biggest concern I have with DeRo is his ego. It comes out in his game play, it comes out in his comments to the media, and it comes out in his "leadership".



I Disagree. Sometimes he fills a void created of a lack of leadership but let's not blame him for stepping up when there shouldn't be a void to begin with.

This team has never had a real leader at the very top and the problem because of that have trickled down.

ManUtd4ever
09-17-2010, 12:20 PM
Frei has to be the undisputed MVP this year, so I don't know about that.

Fair enough, at the very least DeRo and Frei are co MVP's...

ACSertL
09-17-2010, 12:21 PM
Dude is 33 next year. He has technical skills up the wazoo and people here love him because he scores goals. But I'd submit:

a) He's lost speed. He's nowhere near as effective running at guys as he was even two years ago.

b) He hogs the ball mercilessly. We get on other players for missing open men, but DeRo doesn't even look for them.

c) He is ridiculously overconfident. This is a guy who once said he thought he had the skill to maybe play for Real Madrid one day and who was shocked and disappointed when we lost 5-1 to that same team.

d) He doesn't track back well and he can't tackle

e) He drifts terribly out of position, throwing team shape out of wack and leaving coverage holes tracking back.

and of course f) he's the only player on the team able to create a goal out of nothing.


Everyone here loves the guy. But I really believe people are missing the big picture, that for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play. We should be using him the same way San Jose did, as a supersub when we need a second-half goal.

Otherwise, performances like the other night -- and that's not the first real clunker he's had this year -- are going to become the norm. Plus, the guy's 33 next year.

You've summed up my feelings on De Rosario so well...relatively talented footballer no doubt, but very little in the way of footballing IQ.

It is a real dilemma because as far as offensive talent goes he's pretty much all we have (apart from perhaps Maicon Santos and Chad Barrett). So the questions that I ask are can we win with him and can we win without him?

Juanito
09-17-2010, 12:44 PM
As you get older, your body breaks down. The great players adapt to the new role. Midfielders for example, start as attacking players and become defensive virtuosos and excellent passers in the twilight of their career.

I think it's foolish to think that a 33-year old De Rosario can put this team on his back and become the great offensive weapon. We must take a hard look at the big picture and the future of this club and see if and where he fits.

tfcleeds
09-17-2010, 12:51 PM
I think the concerns raised by the OP are valid. Dero is still, by far and away, our best player, but he won't be able to perform at this level forever. And I also have questioned his leadership and attitude more than once this season.

Shakes McQueen
09-17-2010, 12:58 PM
Dude is 33 next year. He has technical skills up the wazoo and people here love him because he scores goals. But I'd submit:

a) He's lost speed. He's nowhere near as effective running at guys as he was even two years ago.

b) He hogs the ball mercilessly. We get on other players for missing open men, but DeRo doesn't even look for them.

c) He is ridiculously overconfident. This is a guy who once said he thought he had the skill to maybe play for Real Madrid one day and who was shocked and disappointed when we lost 5-1 to that same team.

d) He doesn't track back well and he can't tackle

e) He drifts terribly out of position, throwing team shape out of wack and leaving coverage holes tracking back.

and of course f) he's the only player on the team able to create a goal out of nothing.

Everyone here loves the guy. But I really believe people are missing the big picture, that for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play. We should be using him the same way San Jose did, as a supersub when we need a second-half goal.

Otherwise, performances like the other night -- and that's not the first real clunker he's had this year -- are going to become the norm. Plus, the guy's 33 next year.

This is a brilliant analysis of DeRo, and I agree completely.

I don't consider myself a DeRo "booster", because while I think his technical skills are formidable, his incredibly selfish play can be extremely frustrating to watch, and absolutely does cost us goals.

When the team isn't clicking or is down a goal, DeRo doesn't take the lead in trying to bring the team back into it - he just retreats into his own personal La-La Land and tries to do everything himself for the rest of the game. We've seen this on several occasions.

I also get the bad feeling that DeRo might be a primary actor in all of the locker room problems we've had the past two seasons, and I don't think the unmitigated hero worship of him by fans is helping at all. This is just a feeling though, so it isn't really worth debating, but I too, have some questions about his attitude and leadership.

Can't deny his talent, but I do wonder if some of his major flaws hold the team back, overall.

- Scott

TFC Cityboy
09-17-2010, 01:02 PM
the best player is rarely the best captain.

DeRo has undoubtedly picked this team up by the bootstraps on multiple occasions, but time and time again he'll shoot from 25-30 yards out when others are better positioned. This tells me he either has no faith in his teammates (valid but poor captaincy attribute) or he is just plain selfish.

Don't get me wrong here, without DDR we'd have likely been rock bottom this season, but if , as a player, you feel the captain is a poor leader, you dislike the coach and GM, you're unlikely to play to your full potential.

btw- I have it on good authority from a source, that your friend and mine,Nick Garcia, is a major dressing-room shitstirrer.

Jeffro
09-17-2010, 01:03 PM
Thank you for this post jloome. Too many people around here still want to give him dp money.

Wull
09-17-2010, 01:11 PM
I like him, I'd keep him but if the new GM and coach deem him surplus to requirements I'll wish him well and move on. There has to be full control given to whoever gets in this time, no excuses

Beach_Red
09-17-2010, 01:11 PM
It's funny, when the trade for DeRo first happened there were all kinds of rumours on here that it was orchestrated by the league to give the hometown boy to his hometown team. Be nice to know just how many cooks there are in this kitchen...

v00d00daddy
09-17-2010, 01:19 PM
Fair enough, at the very least DeRo and Frei are co MVP's...

This year I would suggest that the TFC MVP race is a two man affair.

1- Frei
1a-Cann

DeRo is distant 2nd or 3rd simply for the fact that he's disappeared for the last 10 games.

Wooster_TFC
09-17-2010, 01:19 PM
Thank you for this post jloome. Too many people around here still want to give him dp money.

My original reasoning for giving him DP money had nothing to do with whether he earned and deserved it, and everything to do with reducing his salary cap hit as a 2nd or 3rd DP.

ensco
09-17-2010, 01:20 PM
Well, this is why I voted against getting rid of Preki and Mo, much as I disliked them. But once you've embarked down the path we're on, you're blowing it up. It's bigger than Dero.

Preki made a mistake when he came in here. He was a lame duck working for a lame duck and inherited the JDG contract. The next guy won't make the same mistake. He'll have real control.

So there's real chance nobody above a certain age or salary level will be back. A new GM/coach will insist on putting their stamp on things. Of course if it's Kinnear or yallop, then Dero will stay. Otherwise I doubt it.

habstfc
09-17-2010, 01:21 PM
You have to keep him. I think he's a hog sometimes also, but in large thre pros outweigh the cons.

v00d00daddy
09-17-2010, 01:23 PM
Well, this is why I voted against getting rid of Preki and Mo, much as I disliked them. But once you've embarked down the path we're on, you're blowing it up. It's bigger than Dero.

Preki made a mistake when he came in here. He was a lame duck working for a lame duck and inherited the JDG contract. The next guy won't make the same mistake. He'll have real control.

So there's real chance nobody above a certain age or salary level will be back. A new GM/coach will insist on putting their stamp on things.

I hope you're right but I get a bad feeling that the next GM and Coach are already in their positions.

Daso and Brennan is my prediction. God help us if it comes to fruition.

Shakes McQueen
09-17-2010, 01:26 PM
I hope you're right but I get a bad feeling that the next GM and Coach are already in their positions.

Daso and Brennan is my prediction. God help us if it comes to fruition.

Brennan isn't the interim GM. I could conceivably see Daso being back as head coach if we finish the year out respectably, but I really don't see Brennan as GM. I don't think even MLSE would be dumb enough to try and put that over the supporters.

- Scott

TorCanSoc
09-17-2010, 01:28 PM
The guy is the class of this team. End of story. This is blamestorming on a sinking ship.

I do respect Jason Devos' opinion though, his credentials and opinion are shaking the pedestal that I personally put DeRo on.

Mo & Preki questioning Gerba, DeVos saying its JDG and Dero. What's being said of our home town boys (OK Gerba's from Montreal but still)? Is Preki onto something here? Naaaah !!!!

Beach_Red
09-17-2010, 01:36 PM
Well, this is why I voted against getting rid of Preki and Mo, much as I disliked them. But once you've embarked down the path we're on, you're blowing it up. It's bigger than Dero.

Preki made a mistake when he came in here. He was a lame duck working for a lame duck and inherited the JDG contract. The next guy won't make the same mistake. He'll have real control.

So there's real chance nobody above a certain age or salary level will be back. A new GM/coach will insist on putting their stamp on things. Of course if it's Kinnear or yallop, then Dero will stay. Otherwise I doubt it.

Well, he'll ask for real control. He may even be promised real control. But as for actually getting real control, well, we'll see. It could happen, they've done it with their other teams.

It would be nice to find out who gets contacted for the job. Did Frank Yallop get offered the job originally and turn it down? I guess we'll know who actually gets interviewed, at least.

ManUtd4ever
09-17-2010, 01:38 PM
I'm not sure what the reasonable expectations are for a "leader" based on some of the comments I've read. For those who question his leadership or value to the team, lest we forget:

- Last season, when DeRo wasn't captain, he singlehandedly brought this club back from the dead at Saputo Stadium and was the catalyst for the most memorable victory in franchise history. BTW, when I met him in person at the rally the following day he was limping noticeably. Yeah, no heart whatsoever.

- DeRo has had 2 career seasons with TFC despite the lack of a supporting cast.

- DeRo is primarily responsible for the modest streak of success this club achieved earlier in the season.

- DeRo is currently the best playmaker on the team.

- DeRo has logged more minutes this season than any other midfielder or forward on the club.

In addition, for those who question his influence in the locker room or his alleged role in having Preki fired, it is interesting to note that during his interview following the recent press conference, DeRo seemed genuinely shocked that Preki was dismissed in addition to Mo. I believe Preki's cumulative results on the pitch and his treatment of Dasovic were ultimately his undoing, not a player conspiracy.

DeRo did everything that was asked of him as a player and as a captain during Mo and Preki's regime despite broken promises from management. He has led by example on the pitch for two seasons. Now he has had a couple of poor performances during the most tumultuous period in franchise history and some supporters are ready to throw him under the bus?

I understand that the recent comments by Devos and Preki will ultimately lead to speculation but how can anyone who has watched this club question his leadership or value to the organization at this point?

Wull
09-17-2010, 01:41 PM
^^^
broken promises?

v00d00daddy
09-17-2010, 01:41 PM
Brennan isn't the interim GM. I could conceivably see Daso being back as head coach if we finish the year out respectably, but I really don't see Brennan as GM. I don't think even MLSE would be dumb enough to try and put that over the supporters.

- Scott

Again...I hope you're right.

It just worries me that we now have Brennan as an assistant GM....and Earl Cochrane as the "interim". How easy would it be for the club to promote Brennan and keep Daso?

They're good buddies....played with CMNT team together and have a CMNT history with our two highest paid players.

Redcoe15
09-17-2010, 01:43 PM
I'll bet mighty_torontofc_2008 is lurking these on these boards, yelling "Ha-ha, told you RPB losers!" :facepalm:

ensco
09-17-2010, 01:46 PM
Did Frank Yallop get offered the job originally and turn it down? I guess we'll know who actually gets interviewed, at least.

He was the Galaxy coach in 2006 and 2007, so he wasn't obviously available. There was much comment on these boards in the beginning that he was an obvious, preferred choice, and it was too bad we couldn't get him.

Auzzy
09-17-2010, 01:46 PM
As mentioned, DeRo has been alternately really hot & really cold. I think making him the captain made sense for Preki, for a while. (Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.) I felt like becoming the captain really improved DeRo's on-field play & his off-field demeanour for a good part of the season. But then...

When DeRo hogs the ball, or shoots for Row Z, while others are in a good position to receive a pass, it's incredibly frustrating. But I don't quite agree with the "no footballing IQ." A couple of times even in the last game (and in a few of the better previous games) DeRo was involved in some good, quick passing sequences with 2 or 3 other players. Hopefully that's a part of their game that a new coach can improve on -- and I think DeRo actually has the skills to play along with that, as long as the system is in place & a couple of other players good enough to play along.

In any case, for business/marketing reasons, I highly doubt MLSE will allow DeRo to be traded or dumped, even if there are better reasons for it in the future. But at 33, DeRo's role has to gradually change, and that will be tough for him & for the team.

My best hope: that we get a new manager & a new coach with the right combination of toughness, fairness, footy IQ & people skills. Also, if we can get at least one more top striker, and get or develop some decent wingers, then DeRo will also be more willing to pass to them & they will be more successful as a group in attack. (Remember last season, when he often seemed to refuse to pass Barrett? Of course, that's also a huge indictment of DeRo: you gotta pass to whoever the coach decides to put on the field. Let the other player screw up; it's not for a player to decide who else is good enough to play with.)

Hopefully the new manager & coach will have the skills to keep DeRo's ego content as his role gradually changes. At 33, he eventually shouldn't be playing the full 90 or starting every game. As his playing time decreases, he should not be captain forever either. And as you get older, your passing game can still be good. But it may be time to stop running into clouds of opponents with the ball, and hoping you'll come out the other side, propelling the ball forward with some random body part...

J .
09-17-2010, 01:53 PM
The only thing that bugs me is how it becoming apparent that his ego and reach within the CSA and ML$E has caused three different team set ups to collapse because he doesnt like the system and when the system changes, fuck all happens but the same shitty results.

Where has DeRo been the past two months?

Its always somebody elses fault but his.

Shakes McQueen
09-17-2010, 01:58 PM
I'll bet mighty_torontofc_2008 is lurking these on these boards, yelling "Ha-ha, told you RPB losers!" :facepalm:

What happened to that guy, anyway?

- Scott

Thrillos
09-17-2010, 02:03 PM
I'm not sure what the reasonable expectations are for a "leader" based on some of the comments I've read. For those who question his leadership or value to the team, lest we forget:

- Last season, when DeRo wasn't captain, he singlehandedly brought this club back from the dead at Saputo Stadium and was the catalyst for the most memorable victory in franchise history. BTW, when I met him in person at the rally the following day he was limping noticeaby. Yeah, no heart whatsoever.

- DeRo has had 2 career seasons with TFC despite the lack of a supporting cast.

- DeRo is primarily responsible for the modest streak of success this club achieved earlier in the season.

- DeRo is currently the best playmaker on the team.

- DeRo has logged more minutes this season than any other midfielder or forward on the club.

In addition, for those who question his influence in the locker room or his alleged role in having Preki fired, it is interesting to note that during his interview following the recent press conference, DeRo seemed genuinely shocked that Preki was dismissed in addition to Mo. I believe Preki's cumulative results on the pitch and his treatment of Dasovic were ultimately his undoing, not a player conspiracy.

DeRo did everything that was asked of him as a player and as a captain during Mo and Preki's regime despite broken promises from management. He has led by example on the pitch for two seasons. Now he has had a couple of poor performances during the most tumultuous period in franchise history and some supporters are ready to throw him under the bus?

I understand that the recent comments by Devos and Preki will ultimately lead to speculation but how can anyone who has watched this club question his leadership or value to the club at this point?

+100%

Could not have said it any better

Hitcho
09-17-2010, 02:25 PM
I'll bet mighty_torontofc_2008 is lurking these on these boards, yelling "Ha-ha, told you RPB losers!" :facepalm:


What happened to that guy, anyway?

- Scott

He was crushed to death when he opened up his closet one day and all the polls he had started fell on top of him.

jloome
09-17-2010, 02:31 PM
I agree that he’s probably not the ideal guy to where the captain’s armband. His game is what it is, a hot/cold streaky kind of scorer, he’s a little selfish with the ball, a little awkward in his style of play, he looks to shoot over pass, and he’ll shoot from anywhere on the pitch (literally anywhere). When he’s hot and the ball is going in the net for him he’s ‘electric’ and everybody loves him. When he inevitably goes cold at some point each season he’s ‘selfish’ and people tend to question both his game and his character. He’s a talented athlete who can at times dominate games… just not every game. Some people have been quick to pile on the anti-Dero camp lately and I think that’s unfortunate.

I was picking my 4 year old kid up from pre-school yesterday and as I arrived the kids were starting a game of soccer. It was the kind of game little kids play where they spend more time talking then playing… the start of the action was delayed by at least 5 mins as 3 kids fought over who got to be the imaginary ‘Dero’. One of the losers of the argument had to settle for Messi instead. Its really cool having a hometown soccer hero… lets not kill that in the usual Toronto way.

Don't get me wrong dude, I'm not anti-dero, it's just a question of the best fit. I tend to think his weaknesses as a player affect his ability to operate as a mid more than as a striker, thus the latter preference.

But yeah, we're obviously better with him.

jloome
09-17-2010, 02:32 PM
This year I would suggest that the TFC MVP race is a two man affair.

1- Frei
1a-Cann

DeRo is distant 2nd or 3rd simply for the fact that he's disappeared for the last 10 games.

Yeah, Frei and Cann have both been outstanding. Cann should've made the all-star team easily. That nod back that Teal Bunbury scored on is the only serious mistake I can remember from him all season.

jloome
09-17-2010, 02:34 PM
The guy is the class of this team. End of story. This is blamestorming on a sinking ship.

I do respect Jason Devos' opinion though, his credentials and opinion are shaking the pedestal that I personally put DeRo on.

Mo & Preki questioning Gerba, DeVos saying its JDG and Dero. What's being said of our home town boys (OK Gerba's from Montreal but still)? Is Preki onto something here? Naaaah !!!!

I agree, he is the class of the team offensively. My issue is with the role he wants to play. He's not a class midfielder anymore. He's much better, to me, used as a scoring threat.

jloome
09-17-2010, 02:35 PM
I'm not sure what the reasonable expectations are for a "leader" based on some of the comments I've read. For those who question his leadership or value to the team, lest we forget:

- Last season, when DeRo wasn't captain, he singlehandedly brought this club back from the dead at Saputo Stadium and was the catalyst for the most memorable victory in franchise history. BTW, when I met him in person at the rally the following day he was limping noticeably. Yeah, no heart whatsoever.

- DeRo has had 2 career seasons with TFC despite the lack of a supporting cast.

- DeRo is primarily responsible for the modest streak of success this club achieved earlier in the season.

- DeRo is currently the best playmaker on the team.

- DeRo has logged more minutes this season than any other midfielder or forward on the club.

In addition, for those who question his influence in the locker room or his alleged role in having Preki fired, it is interesting to note that during his interview following the recent press conference, DeRo seemed genuinely shocked that Preki was dismissed in addition to Mo. I believe Preki's cumulative results on the pitch and his treatment of Dasovic were ultimately his undoing, not a player conspiracy.

DeRo did everything that was asked of him as a player and as a captain during Mo and Preki's regime despite broken promises from management. He has led by example on the pitch for two seasons. Now he has had a couple of poor performances during the most tumultuous period in franchise history and some supporters are ready to throw him under the bus?

I understand that the recent comments by Devos and Preki will ultimately lead to speculation but how can anyone who has watched this club question his leadership or value to the club at this point?

Again, who's throwing him under the bus? I don't see anyone in here questioning his upside. It's whether his downsides favour a change in roles to one that's purely offensive.

DangerRed
09-17-2010, 02:39 PM
I think some of the opinions here need to be wrapped in a bit of context: DeRo had 11 goals last year and has 9 so far in 2010, on pace to finish ahead of the 2009 tally.

To put the size of that contribution in perspective, the 2008 goal leader was Danny Dichio, with 5.

There's no question that DeRo's signing was a resounding success. Was he promised DP money only to not get it when he came over? Perhaps -- that's Mo's fault, and Mo's gone.

Is he selfish? Absolutely. I've seen him strip our own players of the ball, which is a pretty rare sight.

Should he be skip? No -- true leaders aren't attention-mad egomaniacs. Real Madrid's cappy, for example, is their keeper and not Cristiano Ronaldo.

But should we be talking about "tough decisions" and DeRo in the same sentence? Most definitely not. He still has tons to add even though he's slower and you could argue we're getting him at a bargain price, especially when you compare him to a dud like JDG. At his age, we should be making sure he hangs up his boots at BMO rather than going on to anywhere else.

Oldtimer
09-17-2010, 02:42 PM
He was crushed to death when he opened up his closet one day and all the polls he had started fell on top of him.

:lol:

He's hanging around Big Sawker these days under an assumed name.

Jeff s
09-17-2010, 02:43 PM
The fact that people here are complaining about Dero shows that we'll complain about anything and are never satisfied with anything.

menefreghista
09-17-2010, 02:49 PM
He was the Galaxy coach in 2006 and 2007, so he wasn't obviously available. There was much comment on these boards in the beginning that he was an obvious, preferred choice, and it was too bad we couldn't get him.

Yallop was still the Canadian national team manager when TFC approached him about the job. Months after TFC inquired about him he signed with the LA Galaxy.

Who knows why he didn't want to come to Toronto? Was it pay? Control? Or maybe he already knew he was in line for the LA job?

wzhxvy
09-17-2010, 02:54 PM
We can not lose Dero. Is he a leader? of course not. Dero is a good piece in a broader well balanced puzzle but he cant be the leader of the team. Thats all. No need to over analyze it, and start turning on the guy, and god forbid trade him. We will get nothing for him, and he can still produce.

And please lets not start defending Mo and Preki. Mo hired Preki, and they both knew what they were in for, and in some way or another architected this cluster. They failed miserably. Would I have rewarded Daso with the interim title ? I would not have...but Anselmi did.

Lets focus on getting the right manager, coach, and players around our core. Lets not turn on everyone.

Shakes McQueen
09-17-2010, 02:56 PM
I think some of the opinions here need to be wrapped in a bit of context: DeRo had 11 goals last year and has 9 so far in 2010, on pace to finish ahead of the 2009 tally.

To put the size of that contribution in perspective, the 2008 goal leader was Danny Dichio, with 5.

There's no question that DeRo's signing was a resounding success. Was he promised DP money only to not get it when he came over? Perhaps -- that's Mo's fault, and Mo's gone.

Is he selfish? Absolutely. I've seen him strip our own players of the ball, which is a pretty rare sight.

Should he be skip? No -- true leaders aren't attention-mad egomaniacs. Real Madrid's cappy, for example, is their keeper and not Cristiano Ronaldo.

But should we be talking about "tough decisions" and DeRo in the same sentence? Most definitely not. He still has tons to add even though he's slower and you could argue we're getting him at a bargain price, especially when you compare him to a dud like JDG. At his age, we should be making sure he hangs up his boots at BMO rather than going on to anywhere else.

This is a good post, too.

The bit about the goals he has scored can be contentious though, as jloome pointed out. Yes, the guy has been our best goal scorer since arriving here - but I would love to pore over all of the reels of game tape and see how many potential goals were squandered by him getting too selfish and single-minded with the ball.

Now, the counterpoint to that is obviously that "potential goals" is not the same as "goals" - especially when you have a group of strikers as poor as ours. But if a new GM is able to assemble a better supporting cast, and finally fix our scoring woes in particular, does DeRo's selfishness become a huge liability? Or do you think more confidence in his teammates will lead to less selfishness? There are no clear answers here, because our team is so dysfunctional.

I had noticed that DeRo and Barrett were playing much better together this season, when last season it seemed like DeRo avoided passing to Barrett. Perhaps this is evidence that DeRo will play less selfishly with teammates that are playing well.

But as you point out - a true leader brings his lesser teammates along with him and makes them better, he doesn't retreat into himself. As such, I'm not convinced DeRo is the right captain for this team. That isn't a knock against him, it just means he fits better in a different role.

- Scott

Chevy
09-17-2010, 02:58 PM
The fact that people here are complaining about Dero shows that we'll complain about anything and are never satisfied with anything.

We're like the neighbourhood bully. When the kids we pick on move away to another city, we need to find another one to beat up. :poke::poke:

Shakes McQueen
09-17-2010, 03:02 PM
We can not lose Dero. Is he a leader? of course not. Dero is a good piece in a broader well balanced puzzle but he cant be the leader of the team. Thats all. No need to over analyze it, and start turning on the guy, and god forbid trade him. We will get nothing for him, and he can still produce.

And please lets not start defending Mo and Preki. Mo hired Preki, and they both knew what they were in for, and in some way or another architected this cluster. They failed miserably. Would I have rewarded Daso with the interim title ? I would not have...but Anselmi did.

Lets focus on getting the right manager, coach, and players around our core. Lets not turn on everyone.

I can only speak for myself obviously, but I'm certainly not turning on DeRo. I think we just need a little less hero worship all around, and I think it's time we start looking more critically at all of our players.

No one should be considered untouchable or immune from criticism, as DeRo has been for as long as he's been here.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
09-17-2010, 03:05 PM
The fact that people here are complaining about Dero shows that we'll complain about anything and are never satisfied with anything.

This post serves no other point but to browbeat and curtail a frank discussion of DeRo's merits and drawbacks.

Chris Bosh was the Raptors' best player. It didn't stop Raptors fans from talking endlessly about whether he was the right guy to try and build a true contender around. Perhaps they should have just been "satisfied".

We haven't made the playoffs in four years. I'm not satisfied with any of our players, and it's time to look at all of them critically.

- Scott

menefreghista
09-17-2010, 03:08 PM
The fact that people here are complaining about Dero shows that we'll complain about anything and are never satisfied with anything.

I'm convinced that if this team were truly successful we would have very little to discuss on these forums.

I think we are all masochists.

rocker
09-17-2010, 03:26 PM
Jloome's analysis is exactly right. Too many people are willing to overlook De Ro's faults and say he's worthy of DP money. I say no to that. He's paid appropriately, given his strengths and weaknesses.

He's a frustrating player for me.

TFCREDNWHITE
09-17-2010, 03:31 PM
DeRo specifically asked Houston to do what they can to MOVE him to Toronto. DeRo has so much heart that he took it upon himself to come and play here....So please don't question his motives/heart.

DeRo is an Asset, not a liability.(period)

As a team, you want to have as many Assets as you possibly can(salary cap pending).

We have gaping holes in our midfield, which need to be addressed.

Look, lest we forget that DeRo Won Back to Back MLS Cups in 2006 and 2007 with Houston! scoring the crucial winning goal in many games along the way! He did this with Pat Onstad, Brian Ching, Nate Jaqua, Stuart Holden, Brad Davis and Domenic Kinnear....My point is that none of these guys are Gods Greatest gift to soccer!...Yeah some of them are damn good, but they had a strong Midfield/Wing and Striker stable, which allowed them to create and formulate an attack! They(as in the collective) knew how to find a way to score goals mostly by finding Brian Ching in tight or open spaces which he always seemed to bury into the back of the net!

Even further then that, in the begining of this season when everyone was healthy we seemed to have a good mix going forward, but then injuries and in-fighting made everything fall apart at the seems.

Think about it for a second....

Peterson(that douche) went for an extended period of time with injury
Barrett
Maicon
JDG had some hamstring problems
Mista having fitness problems
Ty Harden
Nane

i mean the list goes on and on...

im not making excuses, but the core unit of attackers needs to be on the same page...and these guys for whatever reason were not...

Beach_Red
09-17-2010, 03:31 PM
I'm convinced that if this team were truly successful we would have very little to discuss on these forums.

I think we are all masochists.


We're sports fans in Toronto, what else could we be? ;)

scooterTFC
09-17-2010, 03:34 PM
Don't get me wrong dude, I'm not anti-dero, it's just a question of the best fit. I tend to think his weaknesses as a player affect his ability to operate as a mid more than as a striker, thus the latter preference.

But yeah, we're obviously better with him.

I thought you gave a fair assesment of his strengths and weaknesses. Others on this board tend get pretty negative on him when he's not on one his scoring streaks. As with any athlete, age will become a factor for him and he will have to accept a role change at some point. I also think he's logged alot of mins this year so its hard to say if his production is off becasue of age,workload or just a cold spell from a streaky player.

I'm just hoping the Toronto media doesn't turn on the guy and destroy the hometown hero thing for fans and kids. Its the first time in my life that we've had a Canadian soccer player, playing in Canada, who scores goals and is the 'star' player that kids look up to. Lets hope this doesn't end badly... it would suck if the Dero jersey had to go at the back of the my sons closet with the Tiger Woods hat and Sundin jersey.

trane
09-17-2010, 03:36 PM
Not 33!!

Crap we better get rid of the best player on our team, who despite 'perhaps' having lost a step, is still the player who uses that speed to chase down the ball on offense and defense. The one who scores most of our goals, is a leader on and off the field, and loves playing for us.

Yup, we should be looking at his age and not what, at 33, he still brings to our team.
How old is Henry again? Maybe NYC should consider how many steps he has lost.

*sigh*

I like De Ro, he is out best player. BUT, I as AC Milan support understand the realities of age on paper you may have a world class player, and for 20-45 minutes he may be, BUT age takes away alot from even the best players. De Ro is not the exption. Havint said that, if he was willing to pass more and run less he may still be effective in this league even at an advanced age, but that would mean that he would have to change dratically.

SamK
09-17-2010, 03:51 PM
If we can get offers for him i would trade him right away. He scores goals but he's not really a guy I want on my team, i know a lot of people here will disagree but he's not a very good player. He has clear talent and hes dangerous inside the box, but he runs himself out of position, his passing is horrible, hes always flopping around trying to get a call and when there's no call he'll sit there and raise his hands. I think we'd be a lot better without him, and with the return we'd get for him.

Chevy
09-17-2010, 04:18 PM
^^ The thing is you're not going to get much for him - maybe a draft pick plus a young player.

To complicate things, nNot many other clubs would be willing OR able to pick up his 400k salary.

ManUtd4ever
09-17-2010, 04:27 PM
Again, who's throwing him under the bus? I don't see anyone in here questioning his upside. It's whether his downsides favour a change in roles to one that's purely offensive.

I wasn't referring to your post specifically. I was questioning the inference that DeRo was a negative influence in the locker room and wasn't worth keeping next season at his current salary. I agree that his role should invariably change as he gets older to exploit his strengths...

Blizzard
09-17-2010, 04:30 PM
I have always seen DeRo as the 'best kid in school'

Why the hell should he pass to OBW when he knows he has a better chance of scoring...

Because when you are being double and triple teamed, the best thing to do is get rid of the ball as you're going to be stripped of it if you don't. DeRo has to look around more. I always figured he was made captain to make him more of a team player.

Far too often he runs himself into trouble meanwhile being oblivious to the other options available to him.

DeRo is great but he's not going to last forever. His game will have to evolve somewhat and that means making better use of his teammates.

DichioTFC
09-17-2010, 04:40 PM
Getting rid of DeRo would make our team look like more of a joke then it already does.

He's our best player, he's the captain (for better or for worse, that title still means something), he's Canadian, he's the face of the franchise, he's the only proven winner we have and he clearly shows the most heart on the pitch.

Let DeRo play as long as he wants. When he retires, put his number up on the Wall of Retired Numbers (let's be honest, its not exactly a wall of fame). Thank him for his service and make him an ambassador to growing Canadian Soccer.

Getting rid of DeRo is the absolutely STUPIDEST move anyone can make and I'm very thankful that the people advocating such stupidity are not in sports management themselves.

trane
09-17-2010, 04:44 PM
^ I am glad to see that the level of dicussion on this board, has not changed.


" you disagree with me hence you are stupid, stupid, stupid".

jloome
09-17-2010, 04:46 PM
Getting rid of DeRo would make our team look like more of a joke then it already does.

He's our best player, he's the captain (for better or for worse, that title still means something), he's Canadian, he's the face of the franchise, he's the only proven winner we have and he clearly shows the most heart on the pitch.

Let DeRo play as long as he wants. When he retires, put his number up on the Wall of Retired Numbers (let's be honest, its not exactly a wall of fame). Thank him for his service and make him an ambassador to growing Canadian Soccer.

Getting rid of DeRo is the absolutely STUPIDEST move anyone can make and I'm very thankful that the people advocating such stupidity are not in sports management themselves.

Gee DTFC tell us how you really feel:D

Again, the bigger issue is: what should his role be?

TFCREDNWHITE
09-17-2010, 04:50 PM
Getting rid of DeRo would make our team look like more of a joke then it already does.

He's our best player, he's the captain (for better or for worse, that title still means something), he's Canadian, he's the face of the franchise, he's the only proven winner we have and he clearly shows the most heart on the pitch.

Let DeRo play as long as he wants. When he retires, put his number up on the Wall of Retired Numbers (let's be honest, its not exactly a wall of fame). Thank him for his service and make him an ambassador to growing Canadian Soccer.

Getting rid of DeRo is the absolutely STUPIDEST move anyone can make and I'm very thankful that the people advocating such stupidity are not in sports management themselves.


100% agreed.

Other positions and players need to be upgraded or changed before we touch DeRo....

Usanov
Garcia
Saric
Peterson
LaBrocca
White
Nane

DichioTFC
09-17-2010, 04:58 PM
^ I am glad to see that the level of dicussion on this board, has not changed.


" you disagree with me hence you are stupid, stupid, stupid".

Can't speak for others, but this is the first time I've been absolutely passionate about something in a long time. Getting rid of DeRo is a big mistake to me, something I would consider extremely stupid.


Gee DTFC tell us how you really feel:D

Again, the bigger issue is: what should his role be?

I hope I was clear ;)

His role is really a delicate one and its unfortunate he has the armband because taking it away from him will breed a worse situation.

As much as I dislike him as captain, I say let him keep it until he retires. Stripping DeRo as captain would be an insult to him and could potentially cause a Dave Keon-situation.

DeRo's value off the field, in the long-term promotion of Canadian soccer, is equal to his current on-field production. For that sake alone, we have to roll with the mistake that was made and let the situation continue / linger. Get another Cronin, a young strong player with captaincy potential and make him the assistant.

boozilla
09-17-2010, 04:58 PM
I say keep him, but Frei would make a better Captain.
DeRo's not much of a leader.

DichioTFC
09-17-2010, 05:02 PM
^ I don't know if Frei is captain material. It's about backroom personal management (interacting with players) and Frei doesn't seem like the type to speak up needlessly. He's a great player, but I don't see the captaincy qualities like Robbo had.

We had Jimmy B (CNMT captain), Robbo (Welsh captain), Guevara (Honduras captain), Cronin (young leader) and Dichio (another leader). Now we don't have any of them, and we've replaced them with nobodies.

menefreghista
09-17-2010, 05:15 PM
I'm fairly certain Jim Brennan was never the CMNT captain.

Roogsy
09-17-2010, 05:17 PM
he may be Captain but he's certainly not a leader in the dressing room, according to DeVos and Robbo....remember when he threw his teammates under the bus at the end of last year....players NEVER forget shit like that....

Funny, other players tell me otherwise including guys that Preki brought in. As for last year, everyone was speaking out and everyone was pissed. I don't think anyone cares about last year mostly because hardly anyone is left!

Roogsy
09-17-2010, 05:19 PM
I say keep him, but Frei would make a better Captain.
DeRo's not much of a leader.

What exactly is he not doing that some other better captain would be?

Pookie
09-17-2010, 05:27 PM
Dude is 33 next year. He has technical skills up the wazoo and people here love him because he scores goals. But I'd submit:

a) He's lost speed. He's nowhere near as effective running at guys as he was even two years ago.

b) He hogs the ball mercilessly. We get on other players for missing open men, but DeRo doesn't even look for them.

c) He is ridiculously overconfident. This is a guy who once said he thought he had the skill to maybe play for Real Madrid one day and who was shocked and disappointed when we lost 5-1 to that same team.

d) He doesn't track back well and he can't tackle

e) He drifts terribly out of position, throwing team shape out of wack and leaving coverage holes tracking back.

and of course f) he's the only player on the team able to create a goal out of nothing.


Everyone here loves the guy. But I really believe people are missing the big picture, that for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play. We should be using him the same way San Jose did, as a supersub when we need a second-half goal.

Otherwise, performances like the other night -- and that's not the first real clunker he's had this year -- are going to become the norm. Plus, the guy's 33 next year.

Agreed on your assessment.

The debate over 33 being his age is irrelevant. Whatever the number is, skills decline over time. He is not on the upside of his career and without a Canadian quota next year and our cap system, he needs to be evaluated against other $400,000 players that may be available.

The fact that people don't think we can get anything substantial for him in a trade is telling isn't it? If you can't get something for him, why would we ever consider him a foundation of our future?

Jeff s
09-17-2010, 05:34 PM
This post serves no other point but to browbeat and curtail a frank discussion of DeRo's merits and drawbacks.

Chris Bosh was the Raptors' best player. It didn't stop Raptors fans from talking endlessly about whether he was the right guy to try and build a true contender around. Perhaps they should have just been "satisfied".

We haven't made the playoffs in four years. I'm not satisfied with any of our players, and it's time to look at all of them critically.

- Scott

I just find it ridiculous that people would make a whole topic complaining about quality players like Dero and Deguz (yea I know many people have something against Deguz for some reason).

He's one of the best players on the team. He can't come out and be quality every single time. Instead of complaining about the good players, we should be discussing who are the right players to build around him. There are players here that are clearly worse and getting paid a lot for it, and yet I'm reading about how Dero should leave. The guy is a proven winner, scoring crucial goals in finals, Even scored tfc's first hattrick in a "impossible" game against Montreal. and people still question his determination and leadership? Give me a break.

I'm fine if people don't like a particular performance from him and shit. But when I see topics like this with people asking him to be traded, just makes me laugh.

Darlofletch
09-17-2010, 05:36 PM
Getting rid of DeRo would make our team look like more of a joke then it already does.

He's our best player, he's the captain (for better or for worse, that title still means something), he's Canadian, he's the face of the franchise, he's the only proven winner we have and he clearly shows the most heart on the pitch.

Let DeRo play as long as he wants. When he retires, put his number up on the Wall of Retired Numbers (let's be honest, its not exactly a wall of fame). Thank him for his service and make him an ambassador to growing Canadian Soccer.

Getting rid of DeRo is the absolutely STUPIDEST move anyone can make and I'm very thankful that the people advocating such stupidity are not in sports management themselves.

thta's cool that you feel this way as a fan, but I'd really hope management isn't going to just give anyone a free pass for as long as he wants it like you're suggesting. unfortunately that's what our maanagement seems to feel is the right thing to do, so it probably will happen. I'd rather have someone unsentimental who's willing to do what's best for the team no matter who it might piss off. Would getting rid of de ro be best for the team? who knows, i severely doubt it. would letting preki make those unsentimental choices about who to cut be the best thing to do? who knows? but I'd like to think any new gm/coach will be given those options. otherwise we're screwed.

boozilla
09-17-2010, 06:43 PM
What exactly is he not doing that some other better captain would be?

Leading by example.

Hitcho
09-17-2010, 09:28 PM
The "De Ro costs us goals" accusation is a chicken and egg argument. By definition it requires De Ro to get the ball and/or himself into an area where a certain goal will result from his next pass or touch. Which means if you get rid of him, that position would not arise in the first place, so the chance of a goal would be gone either way. And if I'm wrong on the above point, then De Ro cannot be costing us goals, since there's no opportunity to be squandered. (Someone please post a picture of the flux capacitor, thanks).

And anyway, do we not want to be keeping hold of players who regularly get into the position where their next pass or touch will result in a certain goal?

Blizzard
09-17-2010, 09:34 PM
The "De Ro costs us goals" accusation is a chicken and egg argument. By definition it requires De Ro to get the ball and/or himself into an area where a certain goal will result from his next pass or touch. Which means if you get rid of him, that position would not arise in the first place, so the chance of a goal would be gone either way. And if I'm wrong on the above point, then De Ro cannot be costing us goals, since there's no opportunity to be squandered. (Someone please post a picture of the flux capacitor, thanks).

And anyway, do we not want to be keeping hold of players who regularly get into the position where their next pass or touch will result in a certain goal?

http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/F70/5M32/FGZEMJG4/F705M32FGZEMJG4.MEDIUM.jpg

ArmenJBX
09-17-2010, 09:51 PM
De Rosario is now either a very expensive trade bait or a dying Toronto star. He's losing his pace and is becoming much more selfish.

I say trade him to a Vancouver side looking for a star player and steal a teams unprotected player, one who the team thought wouldn't go because he's expensive, along with a draft pick.

I'd be very pleased if we managed to steal an unprotected Bobby Convey and a first round draft pick striker for De Rosario at 33.

Beach_Red
09-17-2010, 10:14 PM
De Rosario is now either a very expensive trade bait or a dying Toronto star. He's losing his pace and is becoming much more selfish.

I say trade him to a Vancouver side looking for a star player and steal a teams unprotected player, one who the team thought wouldn't go because he's expensive, along with a draft pick.

I'd be very pleased if we managed to steal an unprotected Bobby Convey and a first round draft pick striker for De Rosario at 33.


Of course, the way things work around here that would mean next year he'd be the one scoring to knock TFC out of the CCL -- and probably the playoffs...

Blowing Bubbles
09-17-2010, 10:42 PM
I like him, I'd keep him but if the new GM and coach deem him surplus to requirements I'll wish him well and move on. There has to be full control given to whoever gets in this time, no excuses

the thing is though, there is no way DeRo next year will be "surplus to requirements" (lol england)

If DeRo goes it's because someone thinks it's addition by subtraction, not because he's not skilled enough to get in the starting 11. It's more for changing the culture of the team if it happens.

Roogsy
09-17-2010, 10:49 PM
Leading by example.

Details. What does this mean? You guys are talking about getting rid of the leading scorer for our last 2 years. The guy who at times is our ONLY threat. So basically you guys want to get rid of the only player that actually worries other teams and replace him with......

with?


What does leading by example mean? Enough with rhetoric and let's talk details.

ballerz
09-17-2010, 11:15 PM
I get ripped for slagging DeRo early in the year. I feel vindicated that lots of you are sharing my experience.

He sure does score our goals but he is also a very selfish player. He doesn't look for his teammates and he is always calling for the ball, even when he is draped by 2 defenders. He drifts in and out of games a lot, contrary to what people think. You have to be in the stands to realize how much he sulks off the ball.

I don't think DeRo can be the key player of a MLS championship team - he was one of many in a great cast with Houston and he never was a key player in SJ. Turning 33, he is going into the wrong direction as a player. Unfortunately, because he is hometown boy, we made him to be the marquee player and he will continue to assume that role unless we find ourselves a true DP with enough star power and track record. The DP has to be big enough for DeRo to eat his ego and follow in his shadows - something that I don't think DeRo will like to do and will lead to further locker room problems.

Roogsy
09-17-2010, 11:17 PM
I don't think DeRo can be the key player of a MLS championship team - he was one of many in a great cast with Houston and he never was a key player in SJ.

:facepalm:

No words can respond to this post so I will just let the reader come to the logical conclusion...

boozilla
09-17-2010, 11:40 PM
Details. What does this mean? You guys are talking about getting rid of the leading scorer for our last 2 years. The guy who at times is our ONLY threat. So basically you guys want to get rid of the only player that actually worries other teams and replace him with......

with?


What does leading by example mean? Enough with rhetoric and let's talk details.

In my original post, I said to keep Dero, but that Frei would make a better captain. A goalie yelling at his team is the norm, but sad as it is, Frei is the only one who seems to want to motivate his team, either by shouting or by example (making saves).

zorsofstesab
09-18-2010, 08:15 AM
I COMPLETELY agree with this thread. Dero is a liability as of today. I don`t care what he`s done in the past, but what has he done since. Nothing if you ask me. I hear that he runs his ass off. Well we do not need a marathon runner running like a chicken with his head cut off. Even when he does manage to catch the opposition he fouls constantly. He is constantly out of position and at times side by side next to JDG as a 2nd holding midfielder. He`s too far up or too far down. His passes are dreadful. He flops like Schelletto. Dero and JDG`s character are in question since they spilled the dirty laundry after the Preki firing. They should never have thrown Preki under the bus. Keep it all in house is what normally happens in sports when there are issues in the changing room.

This is why I believe he has remains positive - He is no dummy and understands that he probably has 1 more decent (If that) contract to negotiate. His biggest negotiating power is with TFC. Playing as the local home grown Canadian, captain of TFC and fan favorite (i guess) he will leverage off this and want a big pay raise. I say let him walk and see what he gets on the open market. Dero is not DP worthy, period........

ArmenJBX
09-18-2010, 08:30 AM
At 400K against the cap as a non DP, De Rosario leaving opens space for 2 and maybe even 3 high quality MLS players.

I'd rather have 3 strong wingers and forwards then 1 aging midfielder at this point.

Bobby Convey at 285,000
Will Johnson at 77,000

Just saying.

Pookie
09-18-2010, 08:32 AM
You can't ignore the salary cap in this discussion.

DeRosario is the 2nd highest paid MLS player outside of the Designated Players. He counts well over $400k against the cap.

Only Joseph of New England earns slightly more than him as a non-DP.

There are only 3 others with comparable salaries:

McBride
Casey
Twellman

Is he the best +$400k player we can get?

Is he better than 2, $200k players?

ArmenJBX
09-18-2010, 08:47 AM
You can't ignore the salary cap in this discussion.

DeRosario is the 2nd highest paid MLS player outside of the Designated Players. He counts well over $400k against the cap.

Only Joseph of New England earns slightly more than him as a non-DP.

There are only 3 others with comparable salaries:

McBride
Casey
Twellman

Is he the best +$400k player we can get?

Is he better than 2, $200k players?

Tim Ward, CHI - $55,000
Nelson Gonzales, RSL - $40,000
Roger Torres, PHI - $96,000
Will Johnson, RSL - $76,000
Omar Cummings, COL - $71,500
Sanna Nyassi, SEA - $40,000

If we get rid of De Rosario, we can sign all of these players combined.

Menelaos
09-18-2010, 08:50 AM
Getting rid of DeRo would make our team look like more of a joke then it already does.

He's our best player, he's the captain (for better or for worse, that title still means something), he's Canadian, he's the face of the franchise, he's the only proven winner we have and he clearly shows the most heart on the pitch.

Let DeRo play as long as he wants. When he retires, put his number up on the Wall of Retired Numbers (let's be honest, its not exactly a wall of fame). Thank him for his service and make him an ambassador to growing Canadian Soccer.

Getting rid of DeRo is the absolutely STUPIDEST move anyone can make and I'm very thankful that the people advocating such stupidity are not in sports management themselves.

Funny, when I said this (in other words) I almost got impaled by some around here.

But I agree with this 100%

ArmenJBX
09-18-2010, 08:57 AM
I'm impartial. If we keep him, that's fantastic. I'd like to see him actually play with his teammates, but I guess for some that's not important.

If we sign a plethora of new and usable players in his place, I'm also happy. God knows we need a couple of wingers badly.

jazzy
09-18-2010, 09:19 AM
Dude is 33 next year. He has technical skills up the wazoo and people here love him because he scores goals. But I'd submit:

a) He's lost speed. He's nowhere near as effective running at guys as he was even two years ago.

b) He hogs the ball mercilessly. We get on other players for missing open men, but DeRo doesn't even look for them.

c) He is ridiculously overconfident. This is a guy who once said he thought he had the skill to maybe play for Real Madrid one day and who was shocked and disappointed when we lost 5-1 to that same team.

d) He doesn't track back well and he can't tackle

e) He drifts terribly out of position, throwing team shape out of wack and leaving coverage holes tracking back.

and of course f) he's the only player on the team able to create a goal out of nothing.


Everyone here loves the guy. But I really believe people are missing the big picture, that for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play. We should be using him the same way San Jose did, as a supersub when we need a second-half goal.

Otherwise, performances like the other night -- and that's not the first real clunker he's had this year -- are going to become the norm. Plus, the guy's 33 next year.

what's your point?.....so we get rid of the best man on the team first?...a bit harsh, obviously some truth here, but with a new coach perhaps he/everyone will find his role and play it to a T....Remember his highness DeGuzman...said noone really knew their role or place in nonexistant tactics from Pricki....so in the first game what would you do, if you had heart/desire and a will to never to give up or lose....go all out?, in a guessing sort of style?.. maybe even hogging the ball because, it was the only real effort you knew you could give at the moment...I think I'll give him some credit for all he's given, in a totally losing cause....and his love for Toronto....you know these guys aren't machines......DeRo WILL be there when he gets his role and we get a system....how quickily we forget...HE carried the team earlier on.......get after DeGuZ first

ArmenJBX
09-18-2010, 10:07 AM
When we have a system..

It's been 4 years and we still don't have a system

Right now, I could give fuck all about ANY of the players on this team except Stefan Frei. Give me 22 brand new players and I won't shed a tear for any of the old ones, because in the end of the day, none of them play real soccer. Watching LA Galaxy or Real Salt Lake, they know what kind of fucking soccer they play and they play it. This squad knows long ball and give away, or pass back to goalie to give away. Fuck this shit. The debate on whether to keep De Rosario or not is trivial in comparison to the fact that if this squad doesn't learn how to properly play the sport, De Rosario won't even matter.

Not once have I seen guys creating space for each other, pushing to an open position to receive a pass. It's like the entire team is static. No wonder we haven't won in god knows how long, when you stand in place and wait for a pass the defense will figure you out fast. There's no cohesiveness, there's no hunger or drive, nothing. This whole lot has been useless since day 1 of Toronto FC's existence. We need a real manager, one who knows what he's doing and will apply it. Dasovic is destined to be a players bitch because let's face it, if De Rosario is happy then yay for us! :D /sarcasm

I don't care if De Rosario stays or goes because he is still remnants of a team that never figured out how to play the sport. The only real game I've seen us play this season was against Cruz Azul. Other then that, it has been fortunate bounces or De Rosario winning games single handedly. We don't need that. We need 11 guys who know what they're doing. Enough is enough.

Roogsy
09-18-2010, 11:08 AM
:noidea:

Ask a question, don't get an answer. That's about right for this board. There are opinions but very few are backed up by facts.

As for playing FIFA trader with salary figures...good luck with that. :lol: This isn't Xbox 360 children or else everyone in the league would be doing it. :rolleyes:

Menelaos
09-18-2010, 11:09 AM
:noidea:

Ask a question, don't get an answer. That's about right for this board. There are opinions but very few are backed up by facts.

As for playing FIFA trader with salary figures...good luck with that. :lol: This isn't Xbox 360 children or else everyone in the league would be doing it. :rolleyes:

AMEN!

ArmenJBX
09-18-2010, 11:10 AM
Perhaps if Mo sat down with a copy of FIFA he'd learn about some of the other players in this league.

Seems like Mo was only ever good at finding friends of friends.

Roogsy
09-18-2010, 11:26 AM
Perhaps if Mo sat down with a copy of FIFA he'd learn about some of the other players in this league.

Seems like Mo was only ever good at finding friends of friends.

Our first 3 seasons this is true.

But this 4th season Mo wasn't even calling the shots anymore. This team was built by Preki with Preki's choice of players. So maybe Preki should have gotten a copy of that FIFA list too. And then both could have been laughed out of the league by coaches as they demanded to make trades no team in this league would even consider but you guys seem to think were on the table.

ArmenJBX
09-18-2010, 12:30 PM
Hopefully with new management in place teams will be willing to deal with us again. It seemed like by taking 3 first round draft picks in 2009 we pissed off some teams. This year we were really only trading with Colorado and USL sides.

We're clearly seeing Mo's disastrous choices now biting us in the behind. I pray that the new GM isn't as incompetent.

jloome
09-18-2010, 12:44 PM
what's your point?.....so we get rid of the best man on the team first?...a bit harsh, obviously some truth here, but with a new coach perhaps he/everyone will find his role and play it to a T....Remember his highness DeGuzman...said noone really knew their role or place in nonexistant tactics from Pricki....so in the first game what would you do, if you had heart/desire and a will to never to give up or lose....go all out?, in a guessing sort of style?.. maybe even hogging the ball because, it was the only real effort you knew you could give at the moment...I think I'll give him some credit for all he's given, in a totally losing cause....and his love for Toronto....you know these guys aren't machines......DeRo WILL be there when he gets his role and we get a system....how quickily we forget...HE carried the team earlier on.......get after DeGuZ first

One, not a personal knock, but paragraphs make that stuff easier to read.

Two, lots of people here aren't talking about getting rid of him, but what his role should be.

Roogsy
09-18-2010, 12:49 PM
One, not a personal knock, but paragraphs make that stuff easier to read.

Two, lots of people here aren't talking about getting rid of him, but what his role should be.


Even an outright DeRo supporter likes me can't disagree that as he ages, he (and his teams) need to adjust. As a fiery stubborn (sometimes a good thing, sometimes not) player, they are usually the last ones to realize they don't have the same ability as before. He isn't the 25 year old DeRo, he is the 32 year old DeRo and if this team is to succeed, it can't be on his shoulders alone.

Shakes McQueen
09-18-2010, 01:07 PM
One, not a personal knock, but paragraphs make that stuff easier to read.

Two, lots of people here aren't talking about getting rid of him, but what his role should be.

Really? I find long streams of consciousness joined by ellipses really easy to read, haha.

And yes, the primary discussion is what his role should be. Trying to trade him away would be fucking stupid. We wouldn't get anything approaching equitable value for him, for starters. This isn't the latest FIFA game.

And cutting him loose for nothing would be even more ridiculous.

- Scott

Blowing Bubbles
09-18-2010, 02:59 PM
I think you can argue both sides with DeRo.

There's no way that having him as a 400k cap hit would preclude you from being a contender .... at the same time 400k could potentially buy you a lot of team if you know what you're doing.

Again this goes back to what we've talked about many times - the talent we're getting at the bottom of the roster.

I have no issue paying DeRo 400k as a legend/face/ticket seller/goal scorer as long as we're getting mileage out of our 60k, 100k, and 200k guys.

We're so f'ng behind scouting South America it is gross. Arena is a Don with all of these Brazilian loan signings for 40-60k (or who knows what under the table). Same goes for Dallas. Hell Seattle is running ish having Freddie Montero for 170k.

DeRo sure as hell looks a lot better on the pitch if we have a couple of cheap South Americans on the pitch who he can feed off of.

That's why I'm a bit worried about so many ppl clamouring for a "European" manager/coach next go around. Honestly if we hired someone from Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay/Colombia who has a decent track record I'd be thrilled.

Roogsy
09-18-2010, 05:04 PM
I think you can argue both sides with DeRo.

There's no way that having him as a 400k cap hit would preclude you from being a contender .... at the same time 400k could potentially buy you a lot of team if you know what you're doing.

Again this goes back to what we've talked about many times - the talent we're getting at the bottom of the roster.

I have no issue paying DeRo 400k as a legend/face/ticket seller/goal scorer as long as we're getting mileage out of our 60k, 100k, and 200k guys.

We're so f'ng behind scouting South America it is gross. Arena is a Don with all of these Brazilian loan signings for 40-60k (or who knows what under the table). Same goes for Dallas. Hell Seattle is running ish having Freddie Montero for 170k.

DeRo sure as hell looks a lot better on the pitch if we have a couple of cheap South Americans on the pitch who he can feed off of.

That's why I'm a bit worried about so many ppl clamouring for a "European" manager/coach next go around. Honestly if we hired someone from Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay/Colombia who has a decent track record I'd be thrilled.


Word...

:yesnod:

sampace
09-18-2010, 08:21 PM
DeRosario is a ball hog and I think everyone can agree and knows that. He often does not look up, will shoot from way out instead of seeing who is open for a pass. Even his dead ball hits have been poor lately, where are you Guevara when we need you! I think the bottom line is, DeRosario is not a untouchable, if the new GM gets a good enough offer to move him, they should definetly take a look at it. Quite honestly, Toronto has no untouchables save Cann, and Frei.

ArmenJBX
09-18-2010, 09:33 PM
Might as well apologize.

We love you De Ro, just do this more often and us fickle fans won't hate so much! :D

rocker
09-18-2010, 09:35 PM
Might as well apologize.

We love you De Ro, just do this more often and us fickle fans won't hate so much! :D

no need to apologize.. that's De Ro. He is a clutch player. Just inconsistent.

It's funny how on the boards people seem to think you can only describe a player in black and white terms. He's either God or he's shit. But indeed, players can be great at times and failures at other times.

Jamaicanadian
09-18-2010, 09:37 PM
I haven't read many posts here...I am a DeRo fan...you detractors better check your self......BIG players play BIG in BIG games...Check the facts check the history...MLS championships, MLS All-star games, MLS BIG games.....straight goods:flare:

KezmanCCCC
09-18-2010, 09:43 PM
Now can this thread be closed finally, dero proves his worth time in and time out (just like tonight), hes one of the few players on this team with any quality, and deserves to play out his career in his home town... 2 goals tonight to make it 11 on the season, and two goals that were carbon copies of themselves to prove they were no fluke, dero wont go anywhere (knock on wood).....

sulfur
09-18-2010, 09:44 PM
BIG players play BIG in BIG games...
Then where was this "BIG" player last year in New York?

Or against DC?

Or, or, or.

Jamaicanadian
09-18-2010, 09:47 PM
Sulfur check the facts check the history....The man is a baller!...I don't understand the hate...

Roogsy
09-18-2010, 09:52 PM
Can you hear the haters sing?

Noooo Noooooo!

neuf
09-18-2010, 09:54 PM
Then where was this "BIG" player last year in New York?

Or against DC?

Or, or, or.

Good point. DeRo should score two goals in every game, otherwise he's not a big player.

:rolleyes:

jloome
09-18-2010, 09:56 PM
Now can this thread be closed finally, dero proves his worth time in and time out (just like tonight), hes one of the few players on this team with any quality, and deserves to play out his career in his home town... 2 goals tonight to make it 11 on the season, and two goals that were carbon copies of themselves to prove they were no fluke, dero wont go anywhere (knock on wood).....

Look dude, I'm not trying to argue with you, but that's just plain ignorant. The thread is about the fact that he's human, has weaknesses and, while still our class offensive player, needs to be used in the best manner.

As rocker pointed out, it's not about black-and-white all the time.

No, the thread shouldn't be closed. It's a discussion.

Shakes McQueen
09-18-2010, 10:03 PM
Look dude, I'm not trying to argue with you, but that's just plain ignorant. The thread is about the fact that he's human, has weaknesses and, while still our class offensive player, needs to be used in the best manner.

As rocker pointed out, it's not about black-and-white all the time.

No, the thread shouldn't be closed. It's a discussion.

Seriously. I had written a long rant rebuking the people talking about the "haters", but decided to delete it, lest it get me in trouble.

God forbid we dare to criticize our best player when he hadn't played well in a couple of months, and express relief when he finally snaps out of it. God forbid we critically discuss where he best fits on this team. You either have to hate him, or be a cheerleader.

- Scott

Jamaicanadian
09-18-2010, 10:08 PM
All I say is: TFC has many concerns..at the moment DeRo is not one of them...check the facts, check the history.....

Section 110
09-18-2010, 10:09 PM
What Say You Now?

Shakes McQueen
09-18-2010, 10:11 PM
Then where was this "BIG" player last year in New York?

Or against DC?

Or, or, or.

Yeah, apparently that game last week that sent us all into conniptions wasn't a "big" game. Or the other winnable games in the past couple of months that led us into this virtually insurmountable hole.

Seriously, I'm thrilled DeRo had a great game, and I'm thrilled that he has finally re-emerged as the player we know he can be. But jumping on people who dared to criticize him, and using this as proof of his "clutch-ness"? Give me a fucking break.

DeRo is a fantastic talent with an undeniable pedigree in this league. That doesn't mean we purge the last two months of "big games" lost and drawn from our memories, and sing sarcastic songs about the "haters".

Except for the actual people who just hate him, of course. But that's an incredibly small group of people.

- Scott

loconet
09-18-2010, 10:11 PM
Can you hear the haters sing?

Noooo Noooooo!


:D lol

andyc
09-18-2010, 10:26 PM
Deja vu all over again... I'm not sure who I posted this about two years ago, but every attacking player including the best in the world go in and out of form...

Name a player - Ronaldo, Fabregas, Torres, Rooney, Berbatov (lol I threw that in for fun) - have hot and cold times. If you have seriously watched top level leagues over a long term then you have to understand that no player brings it to every game.

FFS I have no idea how my own 11 year old son will play when I bring him to a game and he is my boy!

Dero won't win every game for us and sometimes he will look like shite. That is the type of player he is - he is passionate and takes chances. At the end of the day he loves TFC and right now is our only real offensive threat.

Is he as good as he was?? I don't know... Is he as good as we have??? Fuck yes...

We need to build for the future but right now he is the best we have. BTW he also is a great guy for the community and Canadian football in general!

TFC need him this year and next for sure. Beyond that who knows or cares? 5 coaches and 80+ players say we have bigger issues to discuss...

jazzy
09-18-2010, 10:27 PM
Eat it haters............you can have White by...Deguz By......get rid of them oh ya Saric By.......DeRo who says what?....I where my RPB DeRO scarf every game for a reason......He will always reach down RE what Barrett said at half time.....we are not trying, we deserve to be down more.....talkin truth.....who else has done what he did tonight in our history under these circumstances and the man was crying at the end..........give me this player any time over all of the above , not talkin Chad, though

TFCRegina
09-18-2010, 10:32 PM
I think you can argue both sides with DeRo.

There's no way that having him as a 400k cap hit would preclude you from being a contender .... at the same time 400k could potentially buy you a lot of team if you know what you're doing.

Again this goes back to what we've talked about many times - the talent we're getting at the bottom of the roster.

I have no issue paying DeRo 400k as a legend/face/ticket seller/goal scorer as long as we're getting mileage out of our 60k, 100k, and 200k guys.

We're so f'ng behind scouting South America it is gross. Arena is a Don with all of these Brazilian loan signings for 40-60k (or who knows what under the table). Same goes for Dallas. Hell Seattle is running ish having Freddie Montero for 170k.

DeRo sure as hell looks a lot better on the pitch if we have a couple of cheap South Americans on the pitch who he can feed off of.

That's why I'm a bit worried about so many ppl clamouring for a "European" manager/coach next go around. Honestly if we hired someone from Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay/Colombia who has a decent track record I'd be thrilled.

That should say The Americas.

At the end of the day, the Americas have cheaper talent available than Europe. In fact, North America has the most comprehensive amateur systems in the world, but we can't even be bothered to take a gander.

This doesn't mean we're going to find a bloody Messi here, but we might find servicable bench players who are willing to take a lower salary than say Europeans of equal calibre.

At the end of the day, players from North America tend to be discriminated against more in salary than other continents. If you had a brazilian or Englishman of equal quality to that of a North American, the North American would be underpaid by comparison, as it's easier to as a Brazilian (to get a salary) because they come from a Pedigreed nation.

The key to getting TFC firing in the coming years is going to be finding servicable North Americans to fill in depth positions so we can blow tonnes of dough on quality players from outside North America.

TFCRegina
09-18-2010, 10:34 PM
Can you hear the haters sing?

Noooo Noooooo!

Plus One.

Shakes McQueen
09-18-2010, 10:35 PM
That should say The Americas.

It should say "The Anywheres". The only market we have cornered scouting-wise the past four seasons, is the "ex-aging underperformer from the English leagues" market.

Oh, and we did sign those two Gambian kids once.

- Scott

Hitcho
09-18-2010, 11:00 PM
Dear egg, please meet jloome's face.

That is all.

{PS - Jezza I respect you, and this was a good thread, but you have to admire the cosmic genius that is the Houston game after you started this chatter. Name me one other person, just one, who would have won us the game tonight if De Ro wasn't on the roster. Trade him? I'd rather hack off my own leg. I think you have your answer. Maybe he read your thread? Start another one about how crap JDG is... :D}

Roogsy
09-18-2010, 11:02 PM
Seriously. I had written a long rant rebuking the people talking about the "haters", but decided to delete it, lest it get me in trouble.

God forbid we dare to criticize our best player when he hadn't played well in a couple of months, and express relief when he finally snaps out of it. God forbid we critically discuss where he best fits on this team. You either have to hate him, or be a cheerleader.

- Scott


I have no problems with criticizing ALL players. When a team underperforms, no one should be immune, not even the team's best player. But posts in this thread has gone beyond highlighting DeRo's drawbacks. Pointing to DeRo as the CAUSE of the team's problems or the reason Preki failed is beyond ignorant.

Shakes McQueen
09-18-2010, 11:06 PM
Pointing to DeRo as the CAUSE of the team's problems or the reason Preki failed is beyond ignorant.

Well I certainly agree with this. Anyone who points to DeRo as the exclusive cause of this team's fate is a fucking maroon.

- Scott

Hitcho
09-18-2010, 11:08 PM
I have no problems with criticizing ALL players. When a team underperforms, no one should be immune, not even the team's best player. But posts in this thread has gone beyond highlighting DeRo's drawbacks. Pointing to DeRo as the CAUSE of the team's problems or the reason Preki failed is beyond ignorant.

I think the posts were more aimed at why Preki got fired, rather than why he failed (ie, players going above th coach's head to management). But regardless, everyone needs a kick in the ass now and again.

And even though my last post was annoyingly gloaty, it's stupid to dump on Jeremy (generally, not pointing at you Roogsy). This thread is valid, or it would not be on its fifth page. If there was no salary cap then there'd have been no question. He made some good points. Tonight, De Ro answered them. Not directly in terms of specific issues raised maybe, but in terms of proving his worth, case closed.

ag futbol
09-18-2010, 11:15 PM
I have no problems with criticizing ALL players. When a team underperforms, no one should be immune, not even the team's best player. But posts in this thread has gone beyond highlighting DeRo's drawbacks. Pointing to DeRo as the CAUSE of the team's problems or the reason Preki failed is beyond ignorant.
Yeah a little perspective on our end would be good. He's scoring at a higher clip than he has throughout his career (he's not normally a goal scorer). He's near the top of the league for goals, and he's the only player on the list who you probably wouldn't describe as a striker.

I suspect if we had some other decent attacking players the rest of our criticisms would go away.

Downside is he's getting older and obviously we can expect to see some decline. But we're getting our money's worth, that's for sure.

fiji_blue
09-18-2010, 11:42 PM
Dero is Boss

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 12:06 AM
Just finished watching this game on PVR. Thank god I didn't check anything online because this was one hell of a finish. For all those Dero haters, I got one message for you.

EAT IT!!!

You have no idea what a leader is. If this man isn't a fucking guy you want leading your team then I don't know what to tell ya.

TOBOR !
09-19-2010, 12:48 AM
Earlier today I had a conversation about the woes of TFC. DeRo's name came up and we agreed that he's a workhorse, but sometimes he tries to do to much... in a "geez, do I have to do everything around here ?" manner. You know what I'm talking about. Late in a game, down by a goal, he has the ball, beats one, two, three defenders and then stumbles over the ball, or puts the ball into row Z..And then tonight he does this... because he knows he has to. Because he knows that O'Brian Wide is on the case. Because he knows that Mista(ke) is on the bench. I'll never grumble about him trying to do too much again. Not when I consider the options.

jloome
09-19-2010, 01:35 AM
Dear egg, please meet jloome's face.

That is all.

{PS - Jezza I respect you, and this was a good thread, but you have to admire the cosmic genius that is the Houston game after you started this chatter. Name me one other person, just one, who would have won us the game tonight if De Ro wasn't on the roster. Trade him? I'd rather hack off my own leg. I think you have your answer. Maybe he read your thread? Start another one about how crap JDG is... :D}

Hitch, go back and read the post. Where did I suggest trading him? Where did I even suggest getting rid of him at all?

Asking how we deal with a player's downside -- particularly after a poor stretch -- is not the same thing as asking to get rid of them.

EDIT: And I see you posted again and got what I was actually getting at.

But you're right. Cosmic timing.

prizby
09-19-2010, 02:00 AM
all i want to say right now after tonights game is which one of dero's goals would you nominate as goal of the week :p

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 02:12 AM
Give me a fucking break.

Good for Dero...two goals...but please.

Mistakes.....

I hope we make the playoffs but I say again...

please....

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 02:14 AM
Just finished watching this game on PVR. Thank god I didn't check anything online because this was one hell of a finish. For all those Dero haters, I got one message for you.

EAT IT!!!

You have no idea what a leader is. If this man isn't a fucking guy you want leading your team then I don't know what to tell ya.

I'm sorry but this has nothing tod do with leadership.

Houston is very upset that they let that happen.

If you're banking on that every game you better hold your breath cause you're gonna die asphyxiation.


please....

Roogsy
09-19-2010, 02:30 AM
I'm sorry but this has nothing tod do with leadership.

Houston is very upset that they let that happen.

If you're banking on that every game you better hold your breath cause you're gonna die asphyxiation.


please....


So basically "leadership" to you means doing that every game?

I guess MLS has no leaders... :noidea:

jazzy
09-19-2010, 04:10 AM
Earlier today I had a conversation about the woes of TFC. DeRo's name came up and we agreed that he's a workhorse, but sometimes he tries to do to much... in a "geez, do I have to do everything around here ?" manner. You know what I'm talking about. Late in a game, down by a goal, he has the ball, beats one, two, three defenders and then stumbles over the ball, or puts the ball into row Z..And then tonight he does this... because he knows he has to. Because he knows that O'Brian Wide is on the case. Because he knows that Mista(ke) is on the bench. I'll never grumble about him trying to do too much again. Not when I consider the options.

^this is as close to the to the truth the as I've seen yet.....more great history in our relatively young existance.....He is the first real team leader after all, as I said before when his role is more defined he will do everything in his ability to fill it, everygame!...and of course at times he will fail but hopefully others can pick-up the slack....of course not JDG

TFCREDNWHITE
09-19-2010, 07:28 AM
This win last night has many undertones to it! I hope it's a rallying cry to our troops fired up! As for DeRo, the man was fucking crying on tv for his city and crest!! Just like I have done in my house many times! DeRo would travel to the ends of this earth and back for this city and we need more of that!

Pookie
09-19-2010, 08:34 AM
Happy we got the 3 points and happy that he was able to pull off 2 terrific shots (considering we managed only 1 other Shot on Goal collectively as a team all game).

That said, it doesn't change the question surrounding whether he should be a $400k foundation, at 33 years old, of this team going forward.

Can you build a team around him? Maybe in 2011? what about 2012? 2013?

However fantastic those 2 set plays were... skills decline with age.

If he is an asset, maybe the trade route would fetch us more over the long term than riding him for another year.

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 08:42 AM
So basically "leadership" to you means doing that every game?

I guess MLS has no leaders... :noidea:

uhh no. put words in my mouth all you like.

dero scoring two goals where the other team fell asleep has nothing to do with leadership.

where's he been th last 10 games?

one good game out of 10 is not good enough and does not a leader make.

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 10:01 AM
uhh no. put words in my mouth all you like.

dero scoring two goals where the other team fell asleep has nothing to do with leadership.

where's he been th last 10 games?

one good game out of 10 is not good enough and does not a leader make.

#1 rule in the book of leadership. LEAD BY EXAMPLE!

Consistently lifting your team's spirits when you are playing like a house league team and consistently digging your team out of a whole is what I call a leader. It's funny, because the other attributes that a leader has are pretty freeking hard to decipher from watching games at BMO or on TV. Are you in the locker room when Dero talks to the rest of the boys? of course not. All we can judge by is what we see during the game. Time and time again Dero proves that he's a leader on this team who leads by example.

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 10:04 AM
This win last night has many undertones to it! I hope it's a rallying cry to our troops fired up! As for DeRo, the man was fucking crying on tv for his city and crest!! Just like I have done in my house many times! DeRo would travel to the ends of this earth and back for this city and we need more of that!

That's exactly it. You could see how freeking emotional he was last night. You can see how badly he wants this team to make it into the playoffs. I have no idea how people don't see Dero as a leader. They don't like his tendency to keep the ball and try to take on players, well shit, he was a striker yesterday and he had absolutely no support from anybody. He grabbed the game by the balls and took over like he should do everytime this team comes out the way they did.

dupont
09-19-2010, 10:12 AM
I never doubted DeRo. I hated all the bad shit people were saying the last few days. I felt like people were just putting the blame on him because he is captain. I couldn't imagine this team without him.

Pookie
09-19-2010, 10:15 AM
^ at what age could you imagine a team without him though or does he retire a Red?

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 10:20 AM
^ at what age could you imagine a team without him though or does he retire a Red?

Why would you put an age on it? we have no idea how he'll be in 2 years down the road. All we can judge by now is whether he still has it. And to me, he still has it and is still the best player on this team.

Just look at Giggs as an example of someone who has extended their career and while they may not be at the front of it all, still contributes to his team in a new role.

I'd like to see Dero retire a red. If he slows down in 2 to 3 years you still have a player who can motivate the youngsters and who can probably still make an impact on the team.

Pookie
09-19-2010, 10:26 AM
I put an age on it for 2 reasons:

1) Skills decline with age and you never know when that player hits the wall. Many suspected that with his performance over the last 8-10 games, he'd already hit that wall. Bit of a time bomb unfortunately and the only thing you know is that it will go off.

2) Unlike Man United's situation with Giggs, we play in a league in which we have a salary cap. DeRosario's current salary takes up over $400k of that cap. There is only 1 other player (non-DP) that counts more against the cap in this league.

That's a lot of money for someone who can just "motivate" youngsters.

Unfortunately, the cap is real and 1 older DeRosario at $400k could buy 2-3 very promising youngsters.

... assuming we can identify talent in the first place... which is a big assumption :(

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 10:29 AM
I put an age on it for 2 reasons:

1) Skills decline with age and you never know when that player hits the wall. Many suspected that with his performance over the last 8-10 games, he'd already hit that wall. Bit of a time bomb unfortunately and the only thing you know is that it will go off.

2) Unlike Man United's situation with Giggs, we play in a league in which we have a salary cap. DeRosario's current salary takes up over $400k of that cap. There is only 1 other player (non-DP) that counts more against the cap in this league.

That's a lot of money for someone who can just "motivate" youngsters.

Unfortunately, the cap is real and 1 older DeRosario at $400k could buy 2-3 very promising youngsters.

... assuming we can identify talent in the first place... which is a big assumption :(

But Pookie, your biggest assumption is that when he takes a back seat role that he's still going to make 400K. Why would that be the case? If he slows down his value will drop. Sounds pretty simple to me.

Pookie
09-19-2010, 10:31 AM
I am assuming that his deal is current for at least 2 more years. Might have that wrong though.

If a pay cut is an option and he'd accept it... it's a different equation.

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 10:33 AM
I am assuming that his deal is current for at least 2 more years. Might have that wrong though.

If a pay cut is an option and he'd accept it... it's a different equation.

I personally think he has 2 years left in him at 400K. I don't see signs of him slowing down. I think Preki's system took a toll on him in the last little while. After that, maybe he takes a back seat role with a smaller pay. That would be ideal in my mind. Unless of course in 2 year he's still tearing the MLS apart.

Thrillos
09-19-2010, 10:34 AM
DeRo can play for however long he wants, for how ever much money he wants. In my mind players earn the right to that slot, very few players in the world have been able to do it for there teams, the likes of Totti, Del Piero, Giggs, Gerrard, Scholes (Raul should have been). And he hasn't been on this team for very long, not even from the beginning but that interview was the tipping point for me on his importance for this club. The only player on the team that can do what he does and no supporter should ever waiver from there faith in him!!

Pookie
09-19-2010, 10:41 AM
I personally think he has 2 years left in him at 400K. I don't see signs of him slowing down. I think Preki's system took a toll on him in the last little while. After that, maybe he takes a back seat role with a smaller pay. That would be ideal in my mind. Unless of course in 2 year he's still tearing the MLS apart.

^ if he doesn't slow down, he's an asset. I'm not going to conclude "Leader" but an asset. As the MLS' 2nd highest paid non-DP, he better be ;)

If he does, he's a huge liability in the cap world.

I guess at the end of it my whole thinking on DeRosario changed when I heard about the Canadian quotas going away. Under the old system, there was never a doubt. We need Canadians and he is one of the most accomplished Canadians in this league.

Now, I'm poking my head up and wondering since we don't have a Canadian quota to deal with next year, is this the best use of our cap resources?

At the end of the day, some may decide that it is. For me, that's a lot of money in an aging player. Just saying.

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 10:43 AM
#1 rule in the book of leadership. LEAD BY EXAMPLE!

Consistently lifting your team's spirits when you are playing like a house league team and consistently digging your team out of a whole is what I call a leader. It's funny, because the other attributes that a leader has are pretty freeking hard to decipher from watching games at BMO or on TV. Are you in the locker room when Dero talks to the rest of the boys? of course not. All we can judge by is what we see during the game. Time and time again Dero proves that he's a leader on this team who leads by example.

So where was the leading by example in the last 2 months?

The guy has the first good game in a long time and all is forgotten?

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 10:54 AM
So where was the leading by example in the last 2 months?

The guy has the first good game in a long time and all is forgotten?

No, it's the other way around. The guy has a few bad games (on a terrible team) and all is forgotten? If you don't see the passion that flows out of this guy and the reactions players have when he puts them back in the game then I don't know what to tell you. What he did last night is beyond having a good game, it was lifting the spirits of a team who was down and out. There are guys who don't accomplish that once in their entire career. Dero does this time and time again. Moments like that don't come a dime a dozen.

Anyways, based on your previous posts a week or so ago, those ones where you speculate Dero got Preki fired and that he secretly runs this team makes it that I can't take anything you say seriously.

Thrillos
09-19-2010, 10:57 AM
^ 100%

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 11:01 AM
No, it's the other way around. The guy has a few bad games (on a terrible team) and all is forgotten? If you don't see the passion that flows out of this guy and the reactions players have when he puts them back in the game then I don't know what to tell you. What he did last night is beyond having a good game, it was lifting the spirits of a team who was down and out. There are guys who don't accomplish that once in their entire career. Dero does this time and time again. Moments like that don't come a dime a dozen.

Anyways, based on your previous posts a week or so ago, those ones where you speculate Dero got Preki fired and that he secretly runs this team makes it that I can't take anything you say seriously.

Pachuco....explain to me where DeRo the leader has been for the last 2 months?

Why did his play slip?
Why did (does) he look like a suck on the field half the time he's out there?

You can't take what I say seriously but you also can't get your head out of DeRo's lap for one minute to actually try and be objective about him.

The guy is not a good team player. Plain and simple. He's selfish on the field and roams wherever the hell he wants.

How is that leading by example?

In case you missed it...we were terrible last night. If not for poor decisions on Houston's part on those walls we would have lost and looked bad doing it and DeRo is one of the reasons why.

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 11:05 AM
Pachuco....explain to me where DeRo the leader has been for the last 2 months?

Why did his play slip?
Why did (does) he look like a suck on the field half the time he's out there?

You can't take what I say seriously but you also can't get your head out of DeRo's lap for one minute to actually try and be objective about him.

The guy is not a good team player. Plain and simple. He's selfish on the field and roams wherever the hell he wants.

How is that leading by example?

In case you missed it...we were terrible last night. If not for poor decisions on Houston's part on those walls we would have lost and looked bad doing it and DeRo is one of the reasons why.

Dude, this is so absurd I can't respond to this. This is like trying to have an argument with someone that pink elephants are pink when he's telling you they are blue. There really is no point. My thoughts on Dero have been posted. I don't need to try and change your opinion as absurd as it is.

EDIT: Just to prove your complete fabrication of Dero's terrible 2 months. TFC 2 - Cruz Azul 1 was exactly one month ago. Away from home. I'm sure I don't need to remind you of what happened in that game.

Thrillos
09-19-2010, 11:10 AM
Voodoo, I am amazed at your post, first of all it wasn't 2 months that he was "gone" also not sure if you noticed but the rest of the team didn't show up either, which goes back to my tried and true point of when a player goes out of form, its the player that needs to get back into form, but when a team goes out of form, its the Coach that needs to be taking the blame and get the TEAM back together, something that Preki had no notion of even attempting. Where as DeRo was also being triple covered since July!! Because other teams realized HE was our team for a while

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 11:33 AM
EDIT: Just to prove your complete fabrication of Dero's terrible 2 months. TFC 2 - Cruz Azul 1 was exactly one month ago. Away from home. I'm sure I don't need to remind you of what happened in that game.

you lost me here.

The Cruz Azul game was BMO.

And I remember Mista being our best player that day.

So please...remind me of what happened in that game.

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 11:36 AM
Voodoo, I am amazed at your post, first of all it wasn't 2 months that he was "gone" also not sure if you noticed but the rest of the team didn't show up either, which goes back to my tried and true point of when a player goes out of form, its the player that needs to get back into form, but when a team goes out of form, its the Coach that needs to be taking the blame and get the TEAM back together, something that Preki had no notion of even attempting. Where as DeRo was also being triple covered since July!! Because other teams realized HE was our team for a while

Look..I'm not saying that DeRo is a bad player. He's one of our best players...talent wise.

I'm challenging the idea that he's a leader.

I don't see it. Not in the way he carries himself on the field and not in the style of game he plays.

Unfortunately...people have fallen so in love with him that they can't see any negatives in his game.

You'll never hear me say that he isn't one of our best players. He most certainly is.

He's just not a leader.

And as for the idea of how to get a team back into form.....it takes everyone. And I would say the most important player to help get a team out of a funk would be the captain.

ArmenJBX
09-19-2010, 11:41 AM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/poll-whose-performance-was-most-clutch-wk-25

Vote De Rosario for most clutch performance! :D

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 11:46 AM
you lost me here.

The Cruz Azul game was BMO.

And I remember Mista being our best player that day.

So please...remind me of what happened in that game.

My bad, it was the Motagua game that I was referring to. Somehow confused the two games. Which wasn't much longer then a month ago. Same still applies. That was another Montreal like moment from Dero.

Beach_Red
09-19-2010, 12:04 PM
You'll never hear me say that he isn't one of our best players. He most certainly is.

He's just not a leader.

And as for the idea of how to get a team back into form.....it takes everyone. And I would say the most important player to help get a team out of a funk would be the captain.


You may be right, but what we're probably seeing is a guy stepping into a leadership void. It's not his fault there's a void and someone has to do it.

The reason everyone wanted Mo fired was because he didn't sign the right players. This season the team doesn't have a real leader.

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 12:15 PM
Look..I'm not saying that DeRo is a bad player. He's one of our best players...talent wise.

I'm challenging the idea that he's a leader.

I don't see it. Not in the way he carries himself on the field and not in the style of game he plays.

Unfortunately...people have fallen so in love with him that they can't see any negatives in his game.

You'll never hear me say that he isn't one of our best players. He most certainly is.

He's just not a leader.

And as for the idea of how to get a team back into form.....it takes everyone. And I would say the most important player to help get a team out of a funk would be the captain.

Not every leader leads the way Voodoo would lead. And you aren't exposed to anything that happens in the dressing room or at practice which is where a big part of being a leader shows.

Brennan lead on the field with his willingness to play through injuries and his willingness to battle for the team at all costs.

Dero leads on the field with his willingness to continue to play no matter how shit this team is, how badly we are playing and how unlikely it is we are going to win the game. He also doesn't take the credit (watch the post game interview with him).

If I played for TFC I would look up to him and him only. No one else on this team would inspire me to play to win.

If I was in the game thread last night I would've called Dero winning the game after he scored the first goal. When Dero starts to take guys on (even if he loses the ball like he did to Hainault) it's when you know he wants the game badly. And when he usually starts to play inspired, and it's when he usually comes out on top.

You are suggesting in some of your previous posts that that all Dero did was take two free kicks and put the ball in the net. Nevermind the exceptional control of the ball from the Labrocca clearance followed by him beating two defenders and getting dragged down to what surely shoud have been a red card. If Dero doesn't play like an individual on that play, the free kick never happens.

Roogsy
09-19-2010, 01:04 PM
where's he been th last 10 games?


Simple. He's been stuck playing for a coach with no tactical ability in an uncreative system that other teams had learned to play against without any adjustments from the coach. Guess what. Under Preki we don't win that game.

Question asked question answered.

Pookie
09-19-2010, 01:50 PM
Simple. He's been stuck playing for a coach with no tactical ability in an uncreative system that other teams had learned to play against without any adjustments from the coach. Guess what. Under Preki we don't win that game.

Question asked question answered.

Question answered, another question asked.

Is this coach with no tactical ability in an uncreative system the same one that had a 40-29-21 record, 2007 MLS Coach of the Year Award and a career (not including TFC) Goal Differential of +22 to his name before he got here?

At some point, the problem goes a little deeper than just the "system."

rocker
09-19-2010, 01:56 PM
Simple. He's been stuck playing for a coach with no tactical ability in an uncreative system that other teams had learned to play against without any adjustments from the coach. Guess what. Under Preki we don't win that game.

Question asked question answered.

De Ro doesn't play in systems, so it's irrelevant what Preki's system was as it pertains to De Ro. De Ro got goals early in the season regardless. And scoring on two free kicks last night has little to do with the system.

De Ro is an individual. when it works, he does great things like he did last night. But when it fails, suddenly it's the system's fault? hmmmm...

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 02:16 PM
Ronaldo is a pretty individual player as well. But he still won Fifa player of the year as individual as he is. He's still one of the best players in the world. If you want to find strikers who are afraid to take players on and play catiously so they don't lose the ball then good luck scoring any goals. Especially on a team as bad as this one. If I was Dero I wouldn't pass the ball either.

But havind said that, let's clear something up.

* Dero is 2nd on the team this year with assists (1 behind Gargan).
* Dero was tied for first last year on the team with assists (tied with Guevara).

This notion that Dero is an individual player and that's all he is is made up. Totally made up and I'm going to guess it's based on personality. I don't think Dichio ever got called for not being a team player. Except Dero had more assists in one season then Dichio had in his entire TFC career. You try and convince me now that Dero isn't a team player.

Roogsy
09-19-2010, 02:21 PM
Question answered, another question asked.

Is this coach with no tactical ability in an uncreative system the same one that had a 40-29-21 record, 2007 MLS Coach of the Year Award and a career (not including TFC) Goal Differential of +22 to his name before he got here?

At some point, the problem goes a little deeper than just the "system."

Indeed...so I wonder why they didn't keep him? :noidea:

Jeffro
09-19-2010, 02:23 PM
This place is fucked. People come on here all "I told you so" because DeRo scored twice yesterday. We all know the man can score. Doesn`t change the fact that everything jloome said in the OP is straight fact that I don`t think many people could disagree with.

There are a lot of things about DeRo`s game that I can`t stand. Is he one of our best players, is he a game breaker? Yes, and I don't think anyone here said he wasn't, and I don't think many people are saying to get rid of him.

Calling people out as "haters" because some saw fit to criticize the leadership of our captain who had a rather poor stretch of games, and was visibly pissy for much of that time, is juvenile and ridiculous.

DeRo is not untouchable, and is subject to the same criticism as anybody else on the team.

Pookie
09-19-2010, 02:32 PM
Indeed...so I wonder why they didn't keep him? :noidea:

Character issue in both board room and locker room? ;)

Blizzard
09-19-2010, 02:37 PM
This place is fucked. People come on here all "I told you so" because DeRo scored twice yesterday. We all know the man can score. Doesn`t change the fact that everything jloome said in the OP is straight fact that I don`t think many people could disagree with.

There are a lot of things about DeRo`s game that I can`t stand. Is he one of our best players, is he a game breaker? Yes, and I don't think anyone here said he wasn't, and I don't think many people are saying to get rid of him.

Calling people out as "haters" because some saw fit to criticize the leadership of our captain who had a rather poor stretch of games, and was visibly pissy for much of that time, is juvenile and ridiculous.

DeRo is not untouchable, and is subject to the same criticism as anybody else on the team.

While that may be true, it is equally true that nobody else on this team would have achieved what he did last night so it is worthwhile for for the club to live with his particular foibles and make the best of it. Eleven goals is nothing to take for granted.

He can frustrate the hell out of me too (as I said above somewhere re the delaying of the pass to Maicon as he diagonally ran through the Houston D) but you have to take the good with the bad.

He may not be the perfect leader but neither is he a player to be disposed of as some here have suggested.

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 02:38 PM
This place is fucked. People come on here all "I told you so" because DeRo scored twice yesterday. We all know the man can score. Doesn`t change the fact that everything jloome said in the OP is straight fact that I don`t think many people could disagree with.

There are a lot of things about DeRo`s game that I can`t stand. Is he one of our best players, is he a game breaker? Yes, and I don't think anyone here said he wasn't, and I don't think many people are saying to get rid of him.

Calling people out as "haters" because some saw fit to criticize the leadership of our captain who had a rather poor stretch of games, and was visibly pissy for much of that time, is juvenile and ridiculous.

DeRo is not untouchable, and is subject to the same criticism as anybody else on the team.

Maybe you aren't a Dero hater, in which case we aren't referring to you. But there definately are. I just took the first one i found as an example.

BTW - Jloome did suggest that Dero should be used as a sub on this team. Suggesting that arguably the best player on the team should be a sub will get people to react this way.


If we can get offers for him i would trade him right away. He scores goals but he's not really a guy I want on my team, i know a lot of people here will disagree but he's not a very good player. He has clear talent and hes dangerous inside the box, but he runs himself out of position, his passing is horrible, hes always flopping around trying to get a call and when there's no call he'll sit there and raise his hands. I think we'd be a lot better without him, and with the return we'd get for him.

rocker
09-19-2010, 02:58 PM
While that may be true, it is equally true that nobody else on this team would have achieved what he did last night so it is worthwhile for for the club to live with his particular foibles and make the best of it. Eleven goals is nothing to take for granted.

He can frustrate the hell out of me too (as I said above somewhere re the delaying of the pass to Maicon as he diagonally ran through the Houston D) but you have to take the good with the bad.

He may not be the perfect leader but neither is he a player to be disposed of as some here have suggested.

This is all true (so is Jeffro's comments). But also people have said "pay him DP money" which I don't think is a good business decision.

On a team without scorers, and with a guy who likes to be an individual, it's not surprising that De Ro is leading the team in goals. If De Ro was passing to other players that could score, if we had Amado taking free kicks and not De Ro, then naturally De Ro would not have as many goals as he does.

He's a clutch performer and also has many flaws. I wish he could do what he did last night more often. It's welcome when it happens. When it doesn't happen, other options are taken away. I think he's worth what he gets paid in MLS terms of value. But he isn't worth a million or even DP status. Conor Casey and Sebastian Letoux are doing the same for less money, and nobody would say they should be DPs.

Everything Jloome said to start this thread is perfectly reasonable and has not been refuted.

Jeffro
09-19-2010, 03:07 PM
Maybe you aren't a Dero hater, in which case we aren't referring to you. But there definately are. I just took the first one i found as an example.

BTW - Jloome did suggest that Dero should be used as a sub on this team. Suggesting that arguably the best player on the team should be a sub will get people to react this way.

I'd say that the people who think DeRo is shite are in an extreme minority, but there are a lot of people who know how good he is, and are regularily frustrated by certain aspects of his game.

I'm just saying it's unfair to lump the people with valid criticisms in with the haters, of whom I'd say there are very few.

Making Dwayne a sub might be a little extreme, but I for one would like to see a new coach come in that might be able to iron out a few things with him. Fact of the matter is, Dwayne is getting close to the age that a lot of players start taking reduced roles in order to maintain their effectiveness. He may not be there just yet, but it's coming.

Thrillos
09-19-2010, 03:19 PM
I think people questioning his leadership should watch the replay of his celebration of the game winning goal. I have watched games of players that are un liked by there teammates score a goal and celebrate on there own, I have watched games of captain's and leaders of there team score goals and the reactions of there teammates. And watching every player on the field swarm Dero and the faces of the players, and the fact that a few of them looked like they wanted to plant a wet one on him just shows how much they respect him in my opinion.

Gerrard comes to mind as he is in my mind a good comparison for Dero (not on skill level but for the following). Gerrard can disappear for an entire game or for an entire month, but when it comes down to it, do you take him off?? do you not start him?? no you fucking him play him because he can take something out of nothing at any time in a game. Which he has done time and time again for Liverpool, he bleeds red for Pool

You can insert Dero for Gerrard and TFC for Liverpool and the statment still stands as 100% FACT!

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 03:23 PM
This is all true (so is Jeffro's comments). But also people have said "pay him DP money" which I don't think is a good business decision.

On a team without scorers, and with a guy who likes to be an individual, it's not surprising that De Ro is leading the team in goals. If De Ro was passing to other players that could score, if we had Amado taking free kicks and not De Ro, then naturally De Ro would not have as many goals as he does.

He's a clutch performer and also has many flaws. I wish he could do what he did last night more often. It's welcome when it happens. When it doesn't happen, other options are taken away. I think he's worth what he gets paid in MLS terms of value. But he isn't worth a million or even DP status. Conor Casey and Sebastian Letoux are doing the same for less money, and nobody would say they should be DPs.

Everything Jloome said to start this thread is perfectly reasonable and has not been refuted.

So you think a guy who is worth 400K (in your own words) should be used as a second half sub. Interesting.

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 03:30 PM
I'd say that the people who think DeRo is shite are in an extreme minority, but there are a lot of people who know how good he is, and are regularily frustrated by certain aspects of his game.

I'm just saying it's unfair to lump the people with valid criticisms in with the haters, of whom I'd say there are very few.

Making Dwayne a sub might be a little extreme, but I for one would like to see a new coach come in that might be able to iron out a few things with him. Fact of the matter is, Dwayne is getting close to the age that a lot of players start taking reduced roles in order to maintain their effectiveness. He may not be there just yet, but it's coming.

Jeffro, I agree with pretty much everything you said. And if I lumped in the ones who make good points about his flaws with the actual haters my bad, not the intent.

The problem for me is this thread started as a bitch fest to point out all of Dero's flaws. I get that he has flaws, but I could make a thread about Frei and his flaws as well. Does that mean the thread is well deserved? I would've like to see a more balanced argument because his flaws isn't everything to his game. Shakes for example I think was giving valid arguments in this thread.

I look at the type of player Dero is and this is what I think to myself.

Does Messi loose the ball when he puts his head down and tries to beat 6 guys at once? yeap, he does, and he does it often. And so does Ronaldo. And so does anyone else who has the freedom to roam and take on players when they want. These two guys actually play in a system but at the same time they are individual players who are allowed to take shots and take on players when it makes sense to them. Kinda like Kobe Bryant, who's had games where he takes 70% of the shots on the team. Or Jordan as well who was well known for hogging the ball.

When you choose to work with players like this you must know that these things are going to happen. I think it's completely unfair though to say for every goal Dero scores he squanders another. It's like saying, every shot Michael Jordan missed would have been 2 or 3 points scored by the Bulls. Come on, that's crazy talk to me.

Thrillos
09-19-2010, 03:37 PM
I look at the type of player Dero is and this is what I think to myself.

Does Messi loose the ball when he puts his head down and tries to beat 6 guys at once? yeap, he does, and he does it often. And so does Ronaldo. And so does anyone else who has the freedom to roam and take on players when they want. These two guys actually play in a system but at the same time they are individual players who are allowed to take shots and take on players when it makes sense to them. Kinda like Kobe Bryant, who's had games where he takes 70% of the shots on the team. Or Jordan as well who was well known for hogging the ball.

When you choose to work with players like this you must know that these things are going to happen. I think it's completely unfair though to say for every goal Dero scores he squanders another. It's like saying, every shot Michael Jordan missed would have been 2 or 3 points scored by the Bulls. Come on, that's crazy talk to me.

Brilliant

werewolf
09-19-2010, 04:35 PM
This is DeRo to all you naysayers last night.


http://www.foxsports.com.au/common/imagedata/0,5001,5395206,00.jpg

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 04:56 PM
I look at the type of player Dero is and this is what I think to myself.

Does Messi loose the ball when he puts his head down and tries to beat 6 guys at once? yeap, he does, and he does it often. And so does Ronaldo. And so does anyone else who has the freedom to roam and take on players when they want. These two guys actually play in a system but at the same time they are individual players who are allowed to take shots and take on players when it makes sense to them. Kinda like Kobe Bryant, who's had games where he takes 70% of the shots on the team. Or Jordan as well who was well known for hogging the ball.

When you choose to work with players like this you must know that these things are going to happen. I think it's completely unfair though to say for every goal Dero scores he squanders another. It's like saying, every shot Michael Jordan missed would have been 2 or 3 points scored by the Bulls. Come on, that's crazy talk to me.

I think I get the sentiment of what you're saying here. I understand that DeRo plays a certain way and that's how he's going to be most effective.
That being said, the players you mention above are arguably the best players in the world in their respective sports.

That's why they get the leeway to play like that. I don't see how DeRo gets to play however the hell he wants just because Messi does it. The comparison is way off. BTW....Messi and Ronaldo don't roam all over the field the way DeRo does. He plays a more structured game than DeRo....so does Ronaldo.

Again, I think DeRo is a good player. He's just one of those guys that I never liked playing with on my team. He seems a little too big for his britches and it hurts the team sometimes.

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 04:57 PM
This is DeRo to all you naysayers last night.


http://www.foxsports.com.au/common/imagedata/0,5001,5395206,00.jpg

And that's what a lot of people have been wanting to say to him for the last 10 games. I guess its even now. :)

Thrillos
09-19-2010, 05:03 PM
And that's what a lot of people have been wanting to say to him for the last 10 games. I guess its even now. :)

It saddens and disgusts me that any supporter of TFC has ever even thought of this towards Dero.

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 05:05 PM
It saddens and disgusts me that any supporter of TFC has ever even thought of this towards Dero.

Are you telling me that you've never seen DeRo do ANYTHING that has made you upset?

Really?

I get the impression that some people think the guy is the perfect footballer.

Thrillos
09-19-2010, 05:06 PM
That's why they get the leeway to play like that. I don't see how DeRo gets to play however the hell he wants just because Messi does it. The comparison is way off. BTW....Messi and Ronaldo don't roam all over the field the way DeRo does. He plays a more structured game than DeRo....so does Ronaldo.


Do actually watch them play or are you just pulling this out of your ass. I actually watch 80% of Barca and Madrid's game a season and I can tell you that you could not be further off.

rocker
09-19-2010, 05:08 PM
I get the impression that some people think the guy is the perfect footballer.

same here.

v00d00daddy
09-19-2010, 05:10 PM
Do actually watch them play or are you just pulling this out of your ass. I actually watch 80% of Barca and Madrid's game a season and I can tell you that you could not be further off.

Really? I usually see Ronaldo and Messi playing one of the wing positions. Messi usually on one of the sides playing as a second striker.

They get a lot of leeway but it's still more structured than DeRo...and they're a couple of the best players in the whole world?

Is DeRo so good that he can do whatever he wants out there?

What position does DeRo play?

Thrillos
09-19-2010, 05:11 PM
every football has done something that has made me upset, its because no one does the perfect thing on the field everytime. ITS IMPOSSIBLE.

I'm sorry but you guys need to stop looking at the few negatives he does a game and the many many many many many positives he's done all season.

typical toronto fans, thinks there players need to be the best in the world or they need to leave, and the media fuels that to no end!

jloome
09-19-2010, 05:13 PM
So you think a guy who is worth 400K (in your own words) should be used as a second half sub. Interesting.

It's a valid criticism. After 10 games without much, it seemed like a way to get some fire and production out of him.

Fair's fair though pachuco: if you check most of the threads about DeRo for the last few months you'll see I've come to the same conclusion in all, that I think we'd be far better off if he was playing as a striker, where issues relative to being a one-man team sometimes are less likely to be a factor when things are going awry.

Oldtimer
09-19-2010, 05:14 PM
De Rosario is now either a very expensive trade bait or a dying Toronto star. He's losing his pace and is becoming much more selfish.

I say trade him to a Vancouver side looking for a star player and steal a teams unprotected player, one who the team thought wouldn't go because he's expensive, along with a draft pick.

I'd be very pleased if we managed to steal an unprotected Bobby Convey and a first round draft pick striker for De Rosario at 33.


I get ripped for slagging DeRo early in the year. I feel vindicated that lots of you are sharing my experience.

He sure does score our goals but he is also a very selfish player. He doesn't look for his teammates and he is always calling for the ball, even when he is draped by 2 defenders. He drifts in and out of games a lot, contrary to what people think. You have to be in the stands to realize how much he sulks off the ball.

I don't think DeRo can be the key player of a MLS championship team - he was one of many in a great cast with Houston and he never was a key player in SJ. Turning 33, he is going into the wrong direction as a player. Unfortunately, because he is hometown boy, we made him to be the marquee player and he will continue to assume that role unless we find ourselves a true DP with enough star power and track record. The DP has to be big enough for DeRo to eat his ego and follow in his shadows - something that I don't think DeRo will like to do and will lead to further locker room problems.


I COMPLETELY agree with this thread. Dero is a liability as of today. I don`t care what he`s done in the past, but what has he done since. Nothing if you ask me. I hear that he runs his ass off.



after the game against Houston, all I have to say is :picard:


Deja vu all over again... I'm not sure who I posted this about two years ago, but every attacking player including the best in the world go in and out of form...

Name a player - Ronaldo, Fabregas, Torres, Rooney, Berbatov (lol I threw that in for fun) - have hot and cold times. If you have seriously watched top level leagues over a long term then you have to understand that no player brings it to every game.


Some of the people here, if they were Man United fans, would have traded Rooney away when he went through that rough spell last year.

ArmenJBX
09-19-2010, 05:33 PM
I'm sorry, but nothing changes after scoring 2 goals. Yes, I'd like to keep it but I'd much rather trade him and get 3-4 solid MLS performing players.

4 good players for 1 great player. Maybe I'm the wrong one but I don't think so.

Oldtimer
09-19-2010, 05:38 PM
I'm sorry, but nothing changes after scoring 2 goals. Yes, I'd like to keep it but I'd much rather trade him and get 3-4 solid MLS performing players.

4 good players for 1 great player. Maybe I'm the wrong one but I don't think so.

You find the club that will trade 4 "good" players for DeRo (and maybe throw in a million in allocation, why not?) and we'll vote to make you general manager.

Until then, you are making all sorts of false assumptions about trades in MLS. I've followed MLS since 2005, I'll tell you that you would never get a trade like that for DeRo. If you did, you would be a trader-genius.

Beach_Red
09-19-2010, 05:42 PM
^ Look at how DeRo came to TFC - what was that trade?

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 05:47 PM
You find the club that will trade 4 "good" players for DeRo (and maybe throw in a million in allocation, why not?) and we'll vote to make you general manager.

Until then, you are making all sorts of false assumptions about trades in MLS. I've followed MLS since 2005, I'll tell you that you would never get a trade like that for DeRo. If you did, you would be a trader-genius.

It really is absurd, considering we traded Julius freeking James for Dero. Who in their right mind would give up 4 solid MLS players?

Hey, Jimmybald, if they do, we are all with you. I'll take Alonzo, Zachuani, Montero and let's throw in Jacqua as our target man.

Sure I'm all for that. Go make that deal and you sir will have everyone on your side.

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 05:53 PM
It's a valid criticism. After 10 games without much, it seemed like a way to get some fire and production out of him.

Fair's fair though pachuco: if you check most of the threads about DeRo for the last few months you'll see I've come to the same conclusion in all, that I think we'd be far better off if he was playing as a striker, where issues relative to being a one-man team sometimes are less likely to be a factor when things are going awry.

I'm all for benching players who are under-performing in order to get a reaction out of them. It just didn't quite feel like your post was suggesting that. More like Dero should be permantly used as a sub.

We definately agree on the Dero playing as a striker thing though. I've never seen his attributes working well in the AM role. I'll admit, he doesn't have the world class vision that Guevara had. He's a selfilsh player who likes to run right at players when he gets the ball, and I can't say his distribution in that role is all that great.

As a striker though he seems to be allowed to do what he's best at. The one thing I hope the next coach fixes is his tendency to go offsides way too much for my liking.

ArmenJBX
09-19-2010, 05:57 PM
Maybe I wasn't as clear as I needed to be. I didn't mean for 1 team to trade us 4 players, I meant that with the cap space he takes up we could sign 4 solid players. Omar Cummings, Michael Harrington, Roger Torres and Chris Pontius, for example, come from 4 different clubs but would take up the same salary (or relatively the same) as De Rosario would. I'd rather have those 4 then just De Rosario. I guess it ultimately depends on which players would be signed in his place but if we get some young(er?) talent for him, why not?

habstfc
09-19-2010, 06:00 PM
I'm sorry, but nothing changes after scoring 2 goals. Yes, I'd like to keep it but I'd much rather trade him and get 3-4 solid MLS performing players.

4 good players for 1 great player. Maybe I'm the wrong one but I don't think so.

I don't think you are going to get 3 or 4 good player's (whatever that means) for dero. I don't know how you could consider getting rid of the guy. I don't think he's played all that great the last 10 games or so but it would never cross my mind to let him go. Even before last nights 2 great highlight reel goals what would be the reasoning for letting your top goal scorer go? It's like the jdg argument, who would you replace him with?

Pachuco
09-19-2010, 06:01 PM
Really? I usually see Ronaldo and Messi playing one of the wing positions. Messi usually on one of the sides playing as a second striker.

They get a lot of leeway but it's still more structured than DeRo...and they're a couple of the best players in the whole world?

Is DeRo so good that he can do whatever he wants out there?

What position does DeRo play?

Well, if I could tell that Dero started the game as an AM last night and then moved to the striker position just by watching the game then it's pretty obvious his game is somewhat structured.

Ronaldo and Messi were just examples because I watch alot of Barcelona and Real Madrid so that came to mind. But think about it for a second, the best teams in the world, as structured as they are, still allow for their star players some level of free roam because that's where they excel.

I'll give you an example of an MLS player. Landon Donovan. Do you know what position his plays? He's usually listed as a striker, but he's a roamer as well. loves to get the ball in the midfield area and run right at players.

ArmenJBX
09-19-2010, 06:07 PM
Hey, I'm not in any position to get rid of him, so there's no need to panic :D

I personally would use this upcoming opportunity to get rid of an aging player and get our hands on 3 good ones. Vancouver will bend over backwards for De Rosario so if we could get our hands on good players (Expansion draft thieving, Superdraft high picks, and perhaps 1 or 2 players from cap space being freed) then I say let's do it. De Rosario has 3 years left in him, 4 years at most. IF we had the chance to get our hands on good players who would make this team better overall and have a lot more years left in them, I think that it would be a good move.

Anyone who votes for me to be GM will not like my initial style but I could promise you easily that in a couple years you'd love the team I've built. :D

Beach_Red
09-19-2010, 06:29 PM
Hey, I'm not in any position to get rid of him, so there's no need to panic :D

I personally would use this upcoming opportunity to get rid of an aging player and get our hands on 3 good ones. Vancouver will bend over backwards for De Rosario so if we could get our hands on good players (Expansion draft thieving, Superdraft high picks, and perhaps 1 or 2 players from cap space being freed) then I say let's do it. De Rosario has 3 years left in him, 4 years at most. IF we had the chance to get our hands on good players who would make this team better overall and have a lot more years left in them, I think that it would be a good move.

Anyone who votes for me to be GM will not like my initial style but I could promise you easily that in a couple years you'd love the team I've built. :D

Just curious, what makes you say this?

ArmenJBX
09-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Just curious, what makes you say this?

If I'm Vancouver manager:

Hmmm, I need to find myself a player who will lead this team, has a lot of skill, has MLS experience, and will appeal to a Canadian crowd, while not taking DP money and could become the face of this franchise as we try to put bums in seats. Now who in the world could I possibly find?

If we offer Vancouver De Rosario, they'll take him for as much as we can reasonably ask for. I say reasonably because they're not going to give us everything but they will give us an expansion draft pick and a draft pick for him easily.

Beach_Red
09-19-2010, 07:37 PM
If I'm Vancouver manager:

Hmmm, I need to find myself a player who will lead this team, has a lot of skill, has MLS experience, and will appeal to a Canadian crowd, while not taking DP money and could become the face of this franchise as we try to put bums in seats. Now who in the world could I possibly find?

If we offer Vancouver De Rosario, they'll take him for as much as we can reasonably ask for. I say reasonably because they're not going to give us everything but they will give us an expansion draft pick and a draft pick for him easily.

Well, the Vancouver franchise isn't new, it's not a starting-from-scratch expansion team and it's unlikely to look for a 34 year old Torontonian to be the face. Hey, they've already got Nash ;).

No, Vancouver is going to do like Seattle and sign a big-name DP for its first MLS season.

TFCRegina
09-19-2010, 07:42 PM
Well, the Vancouver franchise isn't new, it's not a starting-from-scratch expansion team and it's unlikely to look for a 34 year old Torontonian to be the face. Hey, they've already got Nash ;).

No, Vancouver is going to do like Seattle and sign a big-name DP for its first MLS season.

^ And it will be easy for them to do so. Vancouver is consistently ranked as one of the best cities to live in the World.

ArmenJBX
09-19-2010, 08:38 PM
All I'm saying if 400K goes a long way any way you spin it..

dupont
09-19-2010, 08:51 PM
^ And it will be easy for them to do so. Vancouver is consistently ranked as one of the best cities to live in the World.

If they get a big name DP, it will absolutely NOT be because Vancouver is claimed to be one of the best cities to live in. It will be because Steve Nash is a celebrity.

Have you ever actually read those things?
Those lists never list places like London, New York or Tokyo.. it's always places like Vancouver, Geneva, Zurich.
There is no way stars would pick boring "best city to live in" places over the REAL best cities to live in.

twistedchinaman
09-19-2010, 11:18 PM
Two goals yesterday is only part of his redemption -- there's a lot more redemption to go...for one, restoring our faith.

Roogsy
09-19-2010, 11:33 PM
Are you telling me that you've never seen DeRo do ANYTHING that has made you upset?

Really?

I get the impression that some people think the guy is the perfect footballer.


Then you haven't been reading the posts very well.

The main bone of contention seems to be the unfair demands on DeRo and the free passes given to the other players and especially the coach. Ride them as much as you ride DeRo and you won't see any objections to discussing his faults.

Roogsy
09-19-2010, 11:33 PM
Two goals yesterday is only part of his redemption -- there's a lot more redemption to go...for one, restoring our faith.

Is that a job for DeRo or for the team?

TFCRegina
09-20-2010, 12:59 AM
If they get a big name DP, it will absolutely NOT be because Vancouver is claimed to be one of the best cities to live in. It will be because Steve Nash is a celebrity.

Have you ever actually read those things?
Those lists never list places like London, New York or Tokyo.. it's always places like Vancouver, Geneva, Zurich.
There is no way stars would pick boring "best city to live in" places over the REAL best cities to live in.

I dunno, when members of my extended family from Rio de Janeiro claim they think Vancouver is a great city (based on their experiences) I tend to believe what the report is saying. After all, Rio is one of the most awesome cities ever.

twistedchinaman
09-20-2010, 01:25 AM
Is that a job for DeRo or for the team?

Both. Let's hope the hot hand...er...well, foot...carries over to the next game. I just hope that he does not disappear next game.

The team...well, this isn't the thread for it. DeRo needs to show up, and play like he means it instead of some loosey-goosey shite. And THEN we hope that the team follows.

Menelaos
09-20-2010, 07:12 AM
I love this thread!!!

Dero could have scored 10 goals and you'd still be reading BS here by haters.

Btw, Pachuco...awesome posts buddy.

BeerBaron95
09-20-2010, 08:25 AM
This place is fucked. People come on here all "I told you so" because DeRo scored twice yesterday. We all know the man can score. Doesn`t change the fact that everything jloome said in the OP is straight fact that I don`t think many people could disagree with.

There are a lot of things about DeRo`s game that I can`t stand. Is he one of our best players, is he a game breaker? Yes, and I don't think anyone here said he wasn't, and I don't think many people are saying to get rid of him.

Calling people out as "haters" because some saw fit to criticize the leadership of our captain who had a rather poor stretch of games, and was visibly pissy for much of that time, is juvenile and ridiculous.

DeRo is not untouchable, and is subject to the same criticism as anybody else on the team.

PREACH!! lol

Beach_Red
09-20-2010, 09:02 AM
This place is fucked. People come on here all "I told you so" because DeRo scored twice yesterday. We all know the man can score. Doesn`t change the fact that everything jloome said in the OP is straight fact that I don`t think many people could disagree with.

There are a lot of things about DeRo`s game that I can`t stand. Is he one of our best players, is he a game breaker? Yes, and I don't think anyone here said he wasn't, and I don't think many people are saying to get rid of him.

Calling people out as "haters" because some saw fit to criticize the leadership of our captain who had a rather poor stretch of games, and was visibly pissy for much of that time, is juvenile and ridiculous.

DeRo is not untouchable, and is subject to the same criticism as anybody else on the team.


Yeah, and having this discussion is exactly what management should have been doing - planning how to best use the assets of the team moving forward. Planning.

But this isn't an organization that acts, it just reacts. This is exactly why there needed to be a very experienced guy in charge from the start. And why there needs to be one now.

v00d00daddy
09-20-2010, 09:17 AM
Then you haven't been reading the posts very well.

The main bone of contention seems to be the unfair demands on DeRo and the free passes given to the other players and especially the coach. Ride them as much as you ride DeRo and you won't see any objections to discussing his faults.

Sorry but this is way off.

This thread was started by a poster who asked some questions about DeRo. It wasn't received well because it seems as though some people think that its sacrilege to be critical of the guy.

Now you're defending him by citing the shortcomings of the rest of the team and the former coach?

I'm sorry...but the rest of the team gets criticized a lot around here (with the exception of Frei and Cann and maybe Attakora...all of whom are less frustrating to watch for me than DeRo).

And we all know that people were (and continue to be) critical of Preki.

Now there is one critical thread of DeRo and you (and others) feel the need to defend him relentlessly.

The guy is not perfect. Couple that with the fact that he hasn't been playing well lately AND he's the captain of this team and you get a situation where people will have certain expectations of him.

He's getting older, he makes mistakes can be selfish, and sometimes exhibits a shitty attitude...and it's only fair that people have the opportunity to discuss it when it happens.

ACSertL
09-20-2010, 09:28 AM
As many have mentioned, the idea of this thread wasn't meant to dump on De Rosario, but to discuss what the future holds for him. Many of the so called "haters" have acknowledged that he has tremendous upside for this team, but like just about every other footballer on the planet, he's got his foibles.

This thread wasn't started to discuss anyone other than De Rosario.

He was clutch in a game that we probably didn't deserve to win on Saturday evening and for that I am overjoyed, but that still doesn't mean he can be immune from criticism, or speculation on what the club might do with him going forward. Maybe the criticism of him should be left out of it given the timing of the Houston match, but that wasn't in the spirit of the OP's original point.

Anyways, I have enjoyed reading the thread on what is clearly a polarizing topic.

Soccer-Ts
09-20-2010, 10:54 AM
This thread was started by a poster who asked some questions about DeRo. It wasn't received well . . .

Is that what he did - ask some questions? Oh. And here I thought what he presented was more of a point-by-point hatchet job on the shortcomings of the only decent attacking player we have, including statements like:

". . .for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play".

Really? So half, or almost half the goals we've given up this year are DeRo's fault? lol . . . Look, we all know DeRo has many faults but a statement like that is just provocative rubbish. That's why the post "wasn't received well".

Roogsy
09-20-2010, 11:02 AM
^ This.

H Bomb
09-20-2010, 11:03 AM
This thread is kinda awesome. keep it going mob.

Roogsy
09-20-2010, 11:09 AM
He's getting older, he makes mistakes can be selfish, and sometimes exhibits a shitty attitude...and it's only fair that people have the opportunity to discuss it when it happens.

I don't disagree at all. But that is not what has happened to this thread which has gone from discussing his shortcomings to whether or not we even need him. Really? On the poorest offensive team in MLS we don't need the only bonafide offensive threat this team has ever had?

DeRo is not the world's greatest player and nobody has said as much. But criticizing his play when his play has not been the reason this team fails is the part that irks me. This team is failing because one man alone cannot carry the team, which seems to be the expectation when you have statements like "where has he been for 2 months?" Guess what, if he has 2 months off that actually means he's been on for 4. Where was the rest of the team during those 2 months? Your statements alone have shown an overdemanding attitude from DeRo, an attitude that you have not reflected toward any other player. You'd think that unless it's a player making 40Gs a year like Nana, you wouldn't give a free pass to anyone but you have, especially the Preki.

JonO
09-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Is that what he did - ask some questions? Oh. And here I thought what he presented was more of a point-by-point hatchet job on the shortcomings of the only decent attacking player we have, including statements like:

". . .for every goal he scores, he probably costs us at least one and maybe more from selfish play".

Really? So half, or almost half the goals we've given up this year are DeRo's fault? lol . . . Look, we all know DeRo has many faults but a statement like that is just provocative rubbish. That's why the post "wasn't received well".
Not really - what (I believe) he was saying is that we could have scored even more goals had DeRo not been selfish. Not saying that the goals we've given up are DeRo's fault.

Anyway, I was really not trying to wade into this 'cause it's getting silly, yet entertaining. People are entitled to man-crush on Dero and people are entitle to hate on him. That's the beauty of it all.

I really wish we had playoffs to be discussing instead of this tripe

v00d00daddy
09-20-2010, 11:39 AM
I don't disagree at all. But that is not what has happened to this thread which has gone from discussing his shortcomings to whether or not we even need him. Really? On the poorest offensive team in MLS we don't need the only bonafide offensive threat this team has ever had?

DeRo is not the world's greatest player and nobody has said as much. But criticizing his play when his play has not been the reason this team fails is the part that irks me. This team is failing because one man alone cannot carry the team, which seems to be the expectation when you have statements like "where has he been for 2 months?" Guess what, if he has 2 months off that actually means he's been on for 4. Where was the rest of the team during those 2 months? Your statements alone have shown an overdemanding attitude from DeRo, an attitude that you have not reflected toward any other player. You'd think that unless it's a player making 40Gs a year like Nana, you wouldn't give a free pass to anyone but you have, especially the Preki.

Look....his play...along with EVERY other person involved with this team is a part of the reason TFC have not succeeded. It's bullshit to suggest that DeRo is not, in part, to blame for the shortcomings this season. He doesn't get a free pass.

The only players I'm willing to give a free pass to are Frei and Cann. That's it.

Everybody else wears some blame.

As for Preki...I didn't give him a free pass. I've been quite clear on the fact that I was not happy with the team attacking (how could I be?) and a lot of that had to do with Preki's shitty choices.

What I continue to defend when it comes to Preki is the idea that he wasn't given enough time to implement whatever he was trying to do AND that he met resistence from players that should have been on board.

One of whom was DeRo. The other was JDG. They've come out and said as much.

That's why I've lost respect for both of them and, in DeRo's case, why I won't sit quietly anymore and just live with his "foibles".

I can't stand players who think they're bigger than the team...and that's the vibe I'm getting from he and JDG.

He's a very good player but I'm growing tired of him in spite of his talent.

JonO
09-20-2010, 11:43 AM
What I continue to defend when it comes to Preki is the idea that he wasn't given enough time to implement whatever he was trying to do AND that he met resistence from players that should have been on board.

One of whom was DeRo. The other was JDG. They've come out and said as much.
The only thing I will agree with is that Preki never had sufficient time to implement his system. The rest is speculation and inference.

Section 117
09-20-2010, 12:05 PM
Ok here is a question for you v00d00daddy:

Let's say your work hires a new manager. Right off the bat as I was told my sources your boss wants to get rid of you and another coworker? What is the justification for this is because you make too much money.... Not because you can't do your job, but the manager believes no one should make more than "x" amount. Oh by the way you found by someone esle not even the manager himself. Would you be upset???? How would you react?

So to shit on JDG & Dero for what you call being bigger than the team is complete fucking bullshit. If you refer to last year with the unrest in the dressing room was caused by a scottish drunk who is no longer there.

To discuss the flaws of players yes, EVERY player in the MLS has major flaws hence why they play here and not in Europe. One of Dero's biggest flaws is ability to loose balls as he tries to beat player after player or falls looking for a call. BUT with the current configuration of this team I would take him as I would not want to know what TFC would be liek without him.

Oh yeah by the way system or not FUCK Preki and his so called system we are still shit and yes we don't concede that many goals in the final 15 mins because by them most the time we are alrewady losing and temas know we can score if our life depended on it.

v00d00daddy
09-20-2010, 12:16 PM
Ok here is a question for you v00d00daddy:

Let's say your work hires a new manager. Right off the bat as I was told my sources your boss wants to get rid of you and another coworker? What is the justification for this is because you make too much money.... Not because you can't do your job, but the manager believes no one should make more than "x" amount. Oh by the way you found by someone esle not even the manager himself. Would you be upset???? How would you react?

So to shit on JDG & Dero for what you call being bigger than the team is complete fucking bullshit. If you refer to last year with the unrest in the dressing room was caused by a scottish drunk who is no longer there.

To discuss the flaws of players yes, EVERY player in the MLS has major flaws hence why they play here and not in Europe. One of Dero's biggest flaws is ability to loose balls as he tries to beat player after player or falls looking for a call. BUT with the current configuration of this team I would take him as I would not want to know what TFC would be liek without him.

Oh yeah by the way system or not FUCK Preki and his so called system we are still shit and yes we don't concede that many goals in the final 15 mins because by them most the time we are alrewady losing and temas know we can score if our life depended on it.


This post is a little all over the place for me but let me say this.

I like players who listen to their coaches. End of story.

If you don't like him you suck it up and go to management at the appropriate time...the off season.

It's just speculation...but I think they gave up on him...which is unacceptable in my eyes.

That's it....all the other shit aside...that's why I think he's a poor leader and a "bigger than the team" guy.

His talent is undeniable..but his attitude sucks imo. He's even begun to dive for fucks sake. I mean WTF is that all about?

Roogsy
09-20-2010, 12:16 PM
What I continue to defend when it comes to Preki is the idea that he wasn't given enough time to implement whatever he was trying to do AND that he met resistence from players that should have been on board.

One of whom was DeRo. The other was JDG. They've come out and said as much.

This is where you lose me. JDG and DeRo are the players that the media had available to get comments from. Based on that, you have determined that it's them that resisted Preki's system? There is some faulty logic there.

Yeah, DeRo and JDG gave information to the media about what was going on in practice. JDG gave his opinion that there did not seem to be a "system" and assignments were not clear. Do you think a successful professional footballer like JDG would have a hard time understanding a well coordinated system? You have made it sound like it's sour grapes on the part of JDG but other media outlets have pointed to a TEAM-WIDE disatisfaction with Preki's coaching style and ability so why do you place the blame on these two alone? Why aren't you looking at the coach as being the main culprit of these issues? And why aren't you explaining how 10 months into his tenure, Preki was still trying to "implement" something and yet players were still left scratching their heads as to what that "something" was? Could it not possibly be that he was simply a poor coach with shortcomings on the tactical side? Why have you not given that argument any weight since it is a much better fit as an explanation to what went on in the locker room than your baseless accusations that JDG and DeRo pushed out Preki and that there is a country club atmosphere in the club?

v00d00daddy
09-20-2010, 12:18 PM
The only thing I will agree with is that Preki never had sufficient time to implement his system. The rest is speculation and inference.

It is. You're right. But the quotes that have come out since Preki's firing have been pretty telling.

There's no way this is a one sided argument b/w Preki and JDG/DeRo. There are two sides to this story and to assume that Preki is the only one who's contributed to the dysfunction is naive..imo.

It's a two way street.

Roogsy
09-20-2010, 12:18 PM
I like players who listen to their coaches. End of story.


This ASSUMES that Preki had something worth listening to. You don't give any allowance for the fact that it could be these players were seeing and hearing things in practice that they completely disagreed with. Coaches aren't all-knowing, especially one with limited experience as Preki. If Preki was coaching "11 players behind the ball", how could you expect DeRo to be on board with that?


As for his attitude...well...other teams seemed to have been able to work with him for long period of time, enough to win more championships that this city has seen in 20 years in any sport.

v00d00daddy
09-20-2010, 12:26 PM
This is where you lose me. JDG and DeRo are the players that the media had available to get comments from. Based on that, you have determined that it's them that resisted Preki's system? There is some faulty logic there.

Yeah, DeRo and JDG gave information to the media about what was going on in practice. JDG gave his opinion that there did not seem to be a "system" and assignments were not clear. Do you think a successful professional footballer like JDG would have a hard time understanding a well coordinated system? You have made it sound like it's sour grapes on the part of JDG but other media outlets have pointed to a TEAM-WIDE disatisfaction with Preki's coaching style and ability so why do you place the blame on these two alone? Why aren't you looking at the coach as being the main culprit of these issues? And why aren't you explaining how 10 months into his tenure, Preki was still trying to "implement" something and yet players were still left scratching their heads as to what that "something" was? Could it not possibly be that he was simply a poor coach with shortcomings on the tactical side? Why have you not given that argument any weight since it is a much better fit as an explanation to what went on in the locker room than your baseless accusations that JDG and DeRo pushed out Preki and that there is a country club atmosphere in the club?

I'm looking at JDG and DeRo because they are the faces of this club. They are the "leaders".

Was Preki ineffective tactically? Yup.

I have no problem with players being upset. JDG is well within his rights to say what he wants. And yes...I think he is probably very well versed in understanding a coordinated system.

My question arose with the timing of this firing.

Why was it done when it was?
To serve what purpose?

Why did it look like the team had given up 2 or 3 or 4 games before he was fired?

Again...these guys are the leaders of this team. As leaders the proper response (imo) to them not liking the system or the manager should be:

"Fuck boys....I hate this as much as you do but we have to make the most of it and ride it out. The season is still salvageable so lets see if Preki's ideas pan out. Lets give it our all and see what's what at the end of the season".

That's what a leader does.

A leader does not sulk openly on the field. A leader sees the body language of other frustrated teammates and tries to improve...not go along for the ride, making it worse.

That's what bothered me.

v00d00daddy
09-20-2010, 12:29 PM
This ASSUMES that Preki had something worth listening to. You don't give any allowance for the fact that it could be these players were seeing and hearing things in practice that they completely disagreed with. Coaches aren't all-knowing, especially one with limited experience as Preki. If Preki was coaching "11 players behind the ball", how could you expect DeRo to be on board with that?


As for his attitude...well...other teams seemed to have been able to work with him for long period of time, enough to win more championships that this city has seen in 20 years in any sport.


We have no idea what Preki was preaching. But if they didn't like it then why didn't they complain about it when TFC were doing well and getting results?

Why couldn't they play out the season and see what would happen if they gave it their all and bought into the system for ONE SEASON?

Again...not professional imo.

ManUtd4ever
09-20-2010, 12:34 PM
I'm looking at JDG and DeRo because they are the faces of this club. They are the "leaders".

Was Preki ineffective tactically? Yup.

I have no problem with players being upset. JDG is well within his rights to say what he wants. And yes...I think he is probably very well versed in understanding a coordinated system.

My question arose with the timing of this firing.

Why was it done when it was?
To serve what purpose?

Why did it look like the team had given up 2 or 3 or 4 games before he was fired?

Again...these guys are the leaders of this team. As leaders the proper response (imo) to them not liking the system or the manager should be:

"Fuck boys....I hate this as much as you do but we have to make the most of it and ride it out. The season is still salvageable so lets see if Preki's ideas pan out. Lets give it our all and see what's what at the end of the season".

That's what a leader does.

A leader does not sulk openly on the field. A leader sees the body language of other frustrated teammates and tries to improve...not go along for the ride, making it worse.

That's what bothered me.

I believe the timing of Preki's dismissal had everything to do with his handling of Nick Dasovic and the controversy that ensued. Otherwise, he could have very well lasted the rest of the season. As for DeRo and JDG's responsibility to lead by example with their work ethic on the pitch under all circumstances, I agree. My question to you is other than the DCU match where the entire team was disoriented, when did you notice either DeRo or JDG dogging it on the pitch?

loyola
09-20-2010, 12:36 PM
This is where you lose me. JDG and DeRo are the players that the media had available to get comments from. Based on that, you have determined that it's them that resisted Preki's system? There is some faulty logic there.

Yeah, DeRo and JDG gave information to the media about what was going on in practice. JDG gave his opinion that there did not seem to be a "system" and assignments were not clear. Do you think a successful professional footballer like JDG would have a hard time understanding a well coordinated system? You have made it sound like it's sour grapes on the part of JDG but other media outlets have pointed to a TEAM-WIDE disatisfaction with Preki's coaching style and ability so why do you place the blame on these two alone? Why aren't you looking at the coach as being the main culprit of these issues? And why aren't you explaining how 10 months into his tenure, Preki was still trying to "implement" something and yet players were still left scratching their heads as to what that "something" was? Could it not possibly be that he was simply a poor coach with shortcomings on the tactical side? Why have you not given that argument any weight since it is a much better fit as an explanation to what went on in the locker room than your baseless accusations that JDG and DeRo pushed out Preki and that there is a country club atmosphere in the club?

JDG comments about Preki not having a system makes little sense. First he says there's no system under Preki and then makes that comment about Mista:

"Here he is just thrown into a system he is not used to."

Julian, is there a system or not?

Also, you ahve to wonder what kind of friend is JDG, advising an ex-teammate to play for TFC when the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Wait, Mista was signed before things went wrong.....

As for DeRo, the comments him and Brennan made when Canada was still alive in World Cup Qualifying in 2008 showed me that he has poor character. Very good MLS player for sure, but I'm not sure about him having the right character to be a true captain. Throwing the coach under the bus when your teammates are preparing for crucial WC qualifier is truly stupid no matter if you are right or not.

Roogsy
09-20-2010, 12:38 PM
Yup...Preki essentially hung himself with the way he handled the Dasovic incident. Turning around and then blaming the team "leaders" like DeRo for Preki's inability to get along with fellow professionals is tacitly unfair. Preki has only himself to blame and I will state one final time, regardless of what you think of DeRo or JDG or any other of the other players, Preki's dismissal was entirely on his own shoulders.

menefreghista
09-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Also, you ahve to wonder what kind of friend is JDG, advising an ex-teammate to play for TFC when the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Wait, Mista was signed before things went wrong.....

I'm willing to bet Mista came for the money more than anything else. There were probably very few teams in Spain willing to pay him $1 million for a season, let alone half a season.

Roogsy
09-20-2010, 12:43 PM
As for DeRo, the comments him and Brennan made when Canada was still alive in World Cup Qualifying in 2008 showed me that he has poor character. Very good MLS player for sure, but I'm not sure about him having the right character to be a true captain. Throwing the coach under the bus when your teammates are preparing for crucial WC qualifier is truly stupid no matter if you are right or not.


And yet most consider Brennan to have been a fine captain for TFC.

It's as if people around here forget we are talking about professional sports athletes. Whether it be soccer, football, basketball or hockey, they ALL have egos the size of watermelons. Some are more vocal, others are more stubborn and still others are completely unethical and immoral. I have yet to come across an athlete who isn't full of themselves. They have to be. That's part of what is required to get to the top eschelons. So yeah, some of them come out and say things in the media that comes across as arrogant or mouthy, but guess what, you ain't never gonna have mother theresa on your team so let's stop beating around the bush and find who are the BEST choices we have to select from for our team for every respective position and fill them. So is DeRo the best choice for TFC? Yes or no? If no, then who? And get'r done! End of story. All this complaining about who we have on our team is USELESS unless you can come up with realistic better choices. They key here, REALISTIC. Playing FIFA trader is not realistic.

Pachuco
09-20-2010, 12:44 PM
I'm looking at JDG and DeRo because they are the faces of this club. They are the "leaders".

Was Preki ineffective tactically? Yup.

I have no problem with players being upset. JDG is well within his rights to say what he wants. And yes...I think he is probably very well versed in understanding a coordinated system.

My question arose with the timing of this firing.

Why was it done when it was?
To serve what purpose?

Why did it look like the team had given up 2 or 3 or 4 games before he was fired?

Again...these guys are the leaders of this team. As leaders the proper response (imo) to them not liking the system or the manager should be:

"Fuck boys....I hate this as much as you do but we have to make the most of it and ride it out. The season is still salvageable so lets see if Preki's ideas pan out. Lets give it our all and see what's what at the end of the season".

That's what a leader does.

A leader does not sulk openly on the field. A leader sees the body language of other frustrated teammates and tries to improve...not go along for the ride, making it worse.

That's what bothered me.

The bolded statement right there defines Dero's attitude. I have NEVER seen Dero sulk openly on the field, and I have NEVER seen Dero give up on a game. We have hard cold facts to prove that. JDG is another story and should be left out for the "other" thread.

Roogsy
09-20-2010, 12:45 PM
The bolded statement right there defines Dero's attitude. I have NEVER seen Dero sulk openly on the field, and I have NEVER seen Dero give up on a game. We have hard cold facts to prove that.

Word.


Point me to a player who has worked harder for this team than DeRo. If that isn't enough to win over fans and his vague statements in the press are enough to turn you off, then you are someone who values words over actions.

loyola
09-20-2010, 12:46 PM
And yet most consider Brennan to have been a fine captain for TFC.

It's as if people around here forget we are talking about professional sports athletes. Whether it be soccer, football, basketball or hockey, they ALL have egos the size of watermelons. Some are more vocal, others are more stubborn and still others are completely unethical and immoral. I have yet to come across an athlete who isn't full of themselves. They have to be. That's part of what is required to get to the top eschelons. So yeah, some of them come out and say things in the media that comes across as arrogant or mouthy, but guess what, you ain't never gonna have mother theresa on your team so let's stop beating around the bush and find who are the BEST choices we have to select from for our team for every respective position and fill them. So is DeRo the best choice for TFC? Yes or no? If no, then who? And get'r done! End of story. All this complaining about who we have on our team is USELESS unless you can come up with realistic better choices. They key here, REALISTIC. Playing FIFA trader is not realistic.

What Brennan and DeRo said wasn't arrogant or mouthy, it was throwing the towel before we were eliminated. I'm sorry but as a fan I'm not impress by an athlete who quit like that when the team still has chance.

TFC07
09-20-2010, 12:47 PM
I can't believe people are defending Perki here. He wasn't a right coach for TFC. I am sure TFC players and TFC fans want to see more attacking soccer than more defensive minded (work men) like soccer.

End of the day, Perki wasn't a right fit for this club and if he wasn't Mo's friend, I highly doubt it he would have been hired here to coach.

But however, I do have SOME concern that our players may have too much influence on management. I hope I am wrong here.

EDIT: DeRo is going to be TFC player for rest of his career now. He got slower no doubt, but he still scoring goals and carrying the team on his back. I predict he will keep this up until end of the next season.

JonO
09-20-2010, 12:47 PM
I agree with current sentiment. DeRo has his faults no doubt but he'd bleed on the shirt to keep red.

loyola
09-20-2010, 12:48 PM
The bolded statement right there defines Dero's attitude. I have NEVER seen Dero sulk openly on the field, and I have NEVER seen Dero give up on a game. We have hard cold facts to prove that. JDG is another story and should be left out for the "other" thread.

I just gave you an excellent example of him giving up on a chance (very slim but still a chance) to play in a WC. Maybe he never gave up with TFC but he surely did with the MNT.