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habstfc
09-16-2010, 06:08 PM
I was in my car listening to the fan yesterday and during their update they said something about richard peddie petitioning the mlse board about expanding bmo to 30,000 seats. They went on to say part of the reasoning was not just for tfc but also so they could hold the winter classic outdoors at bmo, and I'm assuming he thinks it's necessary to have at least 30,000 seats to do so. Anyone else heard anything about this?

gtaguy
09-16-2010, 06:12 PM
I was in my car listening to the fan yesterday and during their update they said something about richard peddie petitioning the mlse board about expanding bmo to 30,000 seats. They went on to say part of the reasoning was not just for tfc but also so they could hold the winter classic outdoors at bmo, and I'm assuming he thinks it's necessary to have at least 30,000 seats to do so. Anyone else heard anything about this?

never heard about this. My question is where on earth would they put the extra 8k seats, Unless they plan to spend serious cash on adding a second level to the East side of the stadium... Maybe a roof too. :)

habstfc
09-16-2010, 06:14 PM
I totally forgot about it until about an hour ago.

Cas87
09-16-2010, 06:18 PM
never heard about this. My question is where on earth would they put the extra 8k seats, Unless they plan to spend serious cash on adding a second level to the East side of the stadium... Maybe a roof too. :)

They would fill in the corners of the current second deck, probably put some rows on top of the suits at the north end, and you never know, they could add a second phase to the south end (since the gate and pillars are set up for it?)

TFCRegina
09-16-2010, 06:20 PM
They better keep the Argos out.

ensco
09-16-2010, 06:23 PM
Leafs average is $100/ticket, so a sellout earns $1.9 million a game at the ACC. Say you got $200/seat for 30,000 seats for a Leaf game at BMO - that's $6 million. An incremental $4 million. Not small. You'd want to know that the NHL will let you play one every year or two, though.

Plus it makes BMO a more competitive venue for friendlies - they must all have stars in their eyes still from that RM game.

Makes some sense if you are an MLSE suit, as long as the construction cost isn't more than, say, $10-12 million. But have they considered that this could be detrimental to TFC, by totally killing whatever sense of the scarcity of the ticket remains?

werewolf
09-16-2010, 06:26 PM
with the way the team is going and the consistent price increases, we could look like an authentic MLS crowd (though we are getting there with the current capacity).

Carts
09-16-2010, 06:31 PM
30,000 - dear God no...

We'd have 5,000 empty seats on a good day / 15,000 empty seats on a bad night...

I'm hoping he was peitioning for "temporary stands" that would equal 8,000 extra tix for the Winter Classic... Although I don't know how they'd do that...

Carts....

RealG-TFC
09-16-2010, 06:36 PM
lets start winning some fucking games first.

DaBandit
09-16-2010, 06:40 PM
30,000 - dear God no...

We'd have 5,000 empty seats on a good day / 15,000 empty seats on a bad night...

I'm hoping he was peitioning for "temporary stands" that would equal 8,000 extra tix for the Winter Classic... Although I don't know how they'd do that...

Carts....

And just imagine how long the lineups will be for the bathrooms with the added attendance

DichioTFC
09-16-2010, 06:42 PM
Discussion here: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1543694
Article with speech here: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/861510--text-of-richard-peddie-s-speech

This is bullshit. No way should it be 30K until TFC starts winning. To me, this is a case of Peddie compensating for little man's syndrome.

DichioTFC
09-16-2010, 06:43 PM
And just imagine how long the lineups will be for the bathrooms with the added attendance

Spot-on. They'll increase the capacity but wont do a damn thing to ease wait times. Ridiculous.

menefreghista
09-16-2010, 06:48 PM
In a way I hope this would happen, because it would most likely mean a drop in ticket prices. The team isn't filling 22,000 anymore. Why would it need a 30,000 seat stadium?

A good point was made earlier about the friendly market. MLSE wants a piece of the action of those ManU v Celtic type games as opposed to seeing a competitor down the street getting those games.


And just imagine how long the lineups will be for the bathrooms with the added attendance

I'm sure the Building Code would force them to add washrooms with an expansion that big.

flatpicker
09-16-2010, 06:51 PM
It's a frightening thought considering all the empty seats we have now.

But let's say they increase capacity by adding another level to the south or east.
And let's say they only average 22, 000 attendance at a TFC games.
If there was a roof on all four sides of BMO, then the 8000 empty seats might not seem quite as bad as some MLS cities.
And I'm sure they could sell it out for playoff games (*cough* *cough*).

But if there was no roof, then I think the atmosphere would really suffer with added empty seats.

TFC would have to sign some pretty big name stars in order to sell that many tickets.
And I mean names that people recognize, like Henry, Del Piero, etc.

That said... if they added those seats with an upper deck that was considered "cheap seats",
Then maybe they might sell them.

TFC07
09-16-2010, 06:54 PM
I have been saying this long time now. I can't believe people would actually think MLSE would only stop to expand to 24,000 seats.

canadian_bhoy
09-16-2010, 06:55 PM
The article didn't make it sound like it was going to happen any time soon.

When I did an interview for RPBLive in 2007 with Paul Beirne he said something about getting the stadium to 30k as well.

If they do it for next season, it's silly - but to have the ambition to get TFC and BMO to 30k isn't a bad thing.

PS - build us a roof!

ArmenJBX
09-16-2010, 07:02 PM
If I could find season tickets for under 500 without having to kill others on the way, I will be a happy man. :D

Joe Kool
09-16-2010, 07:10 PM
If I could find season tickets for under 500 without having to kill others on the way, I will be a happy man. :D

Somehow I knew you would chime in on this one saying something about getting some season seats. I hope you get yours one day. You certainly want them bad enough.

ArmenJBX
09-16-2010, 07:19 PM
Somehow I knew you would chime in on this one saying something about getting some season seats. I hope you get yours one day. You certainly want them bad enough.

For four seasons my student allowance budget has been saved for season seats. For four years I have called FO and plead my case. For four years I have asked them to help bring a dedicated supporter into BMO Field consistently. TFC for me isn't a one or two year deal, I don't even follow European football anymore; TFC is my soccer life! :D

FO knows who I am, and guess what I'm offered year after year; Marlies packs! :D Guess what I was offered last year? Only half the Marlies tickets. I'm literally known as the Marlies guy at the ticket desk by now :P

Raging Reggie
09-16-2010, 07:22 PM
This thread just reminded me that i was talking with someone at the match on sunday that was in the crowd and works for MLSE. He told me about this and said it would be a second deck on the east side. Forgot all about it.

Red Rat
09-16-2010, 07:55 PM
This has been in the works for some time now but what MLSE was hoping for was a playoff spot to boost ticket sales, now that we have no coach and sitting well below the target I think that they can kiss that goodbye until next year.
I think the target was 1010 grass, 2011 27,000 seats expansion. This may be pushed to 2012, but you never know.

But no roof

rr

Carts
09-16-2010, 07:55 PM
A good point was made earlier about the friendly market. MLSE wants a piece of the action of those ManU v Celtic type games as opposed to seeing a competitor down the street getting those games.


The ManU/Celtic game would have barely filled the current BMO - a 30,000 BMO would have had 7,000 empty seats...

I know, I know - in a smaller environment would be different but....

Can you imagine what MLSE will charge for those friendlies...???

Carts...

BakaGaijin
09-16-2010, 08:01 PM
30,000 - dear God no...

We'd have 5,000 empty seats on a good day / 15,000 empty seats on a bad night...

I'm hoping he was peitioning for "temporary stands" that would equal 8,000 extra tix for the Winter Classic... Although I don't know how they'd do that...

Carts....

Who cares how it 'looks'. If it ends up giving more supporters access to cheaper tickets, then it would be a good thing.

TFC tickets shouldn't be about 'scarecity'. It should be about allowing as many people as possible to attend matches at a reasonable price. That's how you grow the game and increase your fanbase.

Carts
09-16-2010, 08:04 PM
Who cares how it 'looks'. If it ends up giving more supporters access to cheaper tickets, then it would be a good thing.

TFC tickets shouldn't be about 'scarecity'. It should be about allowing as many people as possible to attend matches at a reasonable price. That's how you grow the game and increase your fanbase.

I could care less how it looks...

But a ton of empty seats makes for a bad atmosphere...

There are exceptions - our Cruz Azul game was 40% empty and had some good vibes going...

But match in, match out, an empty stadium will drag down the atmosphere, and worse drag down the hostile environment that makes it difficult for our opponents to win here...

Carts...

TFC07
09-16-2010, 08:14 PM
If MLSE is serious about this, then I except they'll sign a big name DP when expanding BMO field to 30,000 seats. But looking at big picture here, this great news! I am sure big name clubs teams rather play in BMO field than Rogers Centre. So this win for soccer in general in Toronto.

Wagner
09-16-2010, 08:16 PM
this is a little cart before the horse.

We aren't winning.
Attendance is trending down.
yet the talk is expanding the stadium...

BeerBaron95
09-16-2010, 08:17 PM
Who cares how it 'looks'. If it ends up giving more supporters access to cheaper tickets, then it would be a good thing.

TFC tickets shouldn't be about 'scarecity'. It should be about allowing as many people as possible to attend matches at a reasonable price. That's how you grow the game and increase your fanbase.


more supporters or more tourists/prawn seats?? If there is an expansion in the works to upgrade the amount the seats then this is the time to allocate ourselves to our own supporters section.

just an idea and an observation

Stay thirsty my friends..
:drinking:

wzhxvy
09-16-2010, 08:29 PM
Let them expand. That will increase the pressure on them to perform and bring better talent in.

The East stand is the worst place to watch a game. They should put a roof on top of that...but then again, given how the geniuses flubbed the North stand...who knows.

denime
09-16-2010, 08:30 PM
It's a done deal,East side will get 200 level and South will get 200 and maybe roof,but you did not hear this from me.I can't tell who my "source" was but it is coming.

If you remember P.B tweeted about expending ST to 18K.TFC is caped for ST and in order to get more ST BMO Field must expand.

Huyton
09-16-2010, 08:31 PM
I want seasons tickets, too, in a supporters section, no less.

How long is the waiting list? 15,000? And how many of those are just for single tickets? I suspect that many of the people on that list want two or more.

And MLSE is not that interested in how many people show up, but more in how many seats they can sell.

Don't get me wrong, since they get a share of the concessions, the more people who show up, the more beer gets sold, and the more money they make.

prizby
09-16-2010, 08:35 PM
if this meant lowering ticket prices significantly and adding a second deck in the southeast corner to host RPB...why not

AL-MO
09-16-2010, 08:40 PM
The article didn't make it sound like it was going to happen any time soon.

When I did an interview for RPBLive in 2007 with Paul Beirne he said something about getting the stadium to 30k as well.

If they do it for next season, it's silly - but to have the ambition to get TFC and BMO to 30k isn't a bad thing.

PS - build us a roof!

The ambition is great, too bad the pricing doesn't match that.

30,000 just means more empty seats. There are already plenty already.

AL-MO
09-16-2010, 08:40 PM
if this meant lowering ticket prices significantly and adding a second deck in the southeast corner to host RPB...why not

Wishful thinking.

Bars92
09-16-2010, 08:46 PM
The only way this happens is if the Argos move in as well, its just the logistics of the situation.

__wowza
09-16-2010, 08:47 PM
the way i look at it, it could help increase the atmosphere.
look at it this way:

- another designated supporter section
- cheaper seats
- a designated "family zone"

a designated family zone would warrant something like the australian league has with massive family packages that would most definately help fill out the upper sections.

Shakes McQueen
09-16-2010, 08:50 PM
All of the new seats are likely to be cheap seats, and it would get pretty much everyone off the waiting list. I like it.

- Scott

dantdot
09-16-2010, 09:01 PM
All of the new seats are likely to be cheap seats, and it would get pretty much everyone off the waiting list. I like it.

- Scott

This is the only way I'd see this succeeding or we'd look like most MLS teams with a half-full stadium.

Red CB Toronto
09-16-2010, 09:03 PM
I was told the gold list is in the 1,500 range, those who have bought things in the past, the rest is the Red.

rocker
09-16-2010, 09:07 PM
The only way this happens is if the Argos move in as well, its just the logistics of the situation.

why? BMO is too small for the Argos. The North Stand effectively eliminated any extension of the field north. So right now you can't fit a CFL field in. Second, if they had to move back the south end to fit the CFL field, the field would be off centre, so many seats would have awkward views. Pantalone said it would cost multi-millions just to destroy the south end and rebuild.

Plus, by expanding to get more friendlies, they could easily get more $$$$ from that than by bringing in the Argos. Argos would want a heavy share of revenue. Not to mention the new grass field would be completely messed up by CFL.

If they expand, I really do see them as expanding solely for soccer. MLSE doesn't need the Argos at all.

gtaguy
09-16-2010, 10:00 PM
BUILD ME A ROOF .. I wil work on getting people home

gmacpheetfc
09-16-2010, 10:15 PM
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2606712030_c28679704f_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php%3F8777-BMO-Field-Expansion/page5&usg=__r8xx4NGVipIYBMsmqZ-V6f4wfNo=&h=647&w=1214&sz=421&hl=en&start=0&sig2=gh1HDPNRKaCnvllkLA3Tjw&zoom=1&tbnid=IMBhkdiBJOq8OM:&tbnh=156&tbnw=203&ei=Ot2STJ-DOYT68Aa9vLCRDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbmo%2Bexpansion%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26 client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1275%2 6bih%3D622%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C19&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=500&oei=Ot2STJ-DOYT68Aa9vLCRDA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0&tx=74&ty=63&biw=1275&bih=622

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2606712030_c28679704f_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php%3F8777-BMO-Field-Expansion/page5&usg=__r8xx4NGVipIYBMsmqZ-V6f4wfNo=&h=647&w=1214&sz=421&hl=en&start=0&sig2=gh1HDPNRKaCnvllkLA3Tjw&zoom=1&tbnid=IMBhkdiBJOq8OM:&tbnh=156&tbnw=203&ei=Ot2STJ-DOYT68Aa9vLCRDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbmo%2Bexpansion%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26 client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1275%2 6bih%3D622%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C19&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=928&vpy=84&dur=1919&hovh=164&hovw=308&tx=188&ty=191&oei=Ot2STJ-DOYT68Aa9vLCRDA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0&biw=1275&bih=622

DichioTFC
09-16-2010, 10:16 PM
If the issue is the season ticket cap, then I support BMO expansion. I'm sure they planned for it while building the stadium. So long as they planned for expanding washrooms and concessions as well (lets be honest, they're not putting more washrooms there so the waits will be longer).

My issue is with growing from 21.6K to 30K. If the growth were slower, I would have less of a problem with it. MLSE shouldn't sell out the soul of TFC for the sake of higher revenues.

Btw, does anyone see bigger stadium = more money = sign players of higher caliber = better on-field performance?

...No? Nobody? Just checking.

Carts
09-16-2010, 10:31 PM
It's a done deal,East side will get 200 level and South will get 200 and maybe roof,but you did not hear this from me.I can't tell who my "source" was but it is coming.

If you remember P.B tweeted about expending ST to 18K.TFC is caped for ST and in order to get more ST BMO Field must expand.

Is that Gareth 'denime' Wheeler posting...???

Carts...

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-16-2010, 10:33 PM
I don't mind the idea, even if it only gets filled for the bigger games, seems to be the pattern with a lot of teams in Europe.

I hope it includes a roof and is heavy on cheaper seats.

Blowing Bubbles
09-16-2010, 10:39 PM
I don't mind increasing the stadium, but jumping from 21 to 30k is a huge change ..... I understand going incrementally isn't feasible.

If they do go to 30k it will be a lot easier for them to do strategic "re-seating", especially if a 200 level is added in the South ..... like someone mentioned above perhaps now they can congregate all the supporters in one zone, open up a family zone, etc.

I have no fear that all of the new cheap seats will get snapped up. It's the expensive seats that are going to be the issue, that market is really soft now.

The revenues these guys are going to be bringing in relative to a ~ 5 mill payroll are going to be insane. Not quite the ROI that Seattle is getting but it's still going to be obscene compared to other sports franchises.

flatpicker
09-16-2010, 10:56 PM
I would hope that existing STH's get first dibs on seat relocation when the new seats are added.

habstfc
09-16-2010, 11:03 PM
If the expansion to 30,000 happens it will probably mean a lower average ticket price. They could realistically put at least 2,500 to 3,000 more seats in a 200 level deck in the southend. I could see those tickets being around 20 to 25 bucks. The original southend seats would probably be an even 30 bucks, at least by the time this is done. A second level on the east side would be where the majority of the 5,000 other seats would be located. Those seats would (depending on location) probably be between 30 and 50 bucks. I think the sections on the west side in the 200's would remain about the same price (Of course this is all speculation on my part). I think the price point at which they could easily sell out 30,000 seats is about the 45 dollar mark. If you think about the ccl games so far, the sections that are basically full are the seats with the ticket prices of 40 dollars and under.104,105,110,111-120. I think sellouts are easily attainable at those prices.

Azerban
09-16-2010, 11:11 PM
Btw, does anyone see bigger stadium = more money = sign players of higher caliber = better on-field performance?

...No? Nobody? Just checking.

that's precious

you're precious



Btw, does anyone see bigger stadium = more money

there we go

DichioTFC
09-16-2010, 11:13 PM
that's precious

you're precious



there we go

A tad optimistic? :flare:

Canary Canuck
09-16-2010, 11:38 PM
Article with speech here: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/861510--text-of-richard-peddie-s-speech (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/861510--text-of-richard-peddie-s-speech)

anyone else notice the bit about the training facility location? Peddie said the finalists are Toronto, Vaughan, Mississauga and Milton.

Roogsy
09-17-2010, 12:21 AM
If they expand BMO but don't make arrangements to have supporters move to be with their respective groups, then this move has no upside for supporters and does nothing to contribute to the gameday experience. I don't even know if it's viable financially since it would create less scarcity of tickets and less need for seasons tickets. I know I might drop 2 of my seasons already and with this knowledge, I at least know I might be able to get extra seats if I really need them.

I really don't know what they're thinking over there at the FO. :noidea:

SmokedPanda
09-17-2010, 12:58 AM
They couldn't build a proper team and they couldn't build a proper stadium. They are basically doing a patching job at BMO and it's not going to look as nice as what the red bulls or wizards have

morgank1986
09-17-2010, 01:11 AM
I'd be nice if the West and East were mirror images of each other. The small pet peeve I have about BMO is how it lookes the the North, East, South, and West were designed by 4 different guys.

kodiakTFC
09-17-2010, 02:55 AM
This won't happen for next year, this is a long term pipe dream for mlse. PB tweeted that there will be 18000 season tickets and I would bet every dollar I have that these seats will be from the new north end. The FO realized they weren't getting the walk up they wanted and knew it could easily be filled by season tickets for next year.

We all know there have been empty seats this year but they are all pretty much spoken for (outside of CCL), its just people choosing not to show. If TFC expanded to 30k, which it will, it will do so as they have stated many times, in two stages of 5000 seats. My guess is BMO will have 30000 seats by 2016 and will probably be looking at 22-23k season ticket holders.

*** These new seats better be cheaper alternatives because just look at the CCL game for instance. The supporters section and corners (cheap tickets) were rammed full and the rest of the stadium was sparse. People in Toronto will come in droves if the tickets are reasonable, they could expand to 30k today if they made the tickets $300 a season. I'm scared this isn't true tho, just look how ridiculous the North end pricing is.

kodiakTFC
09-17-2010, 02:58 AM
I'd be nice if the West and East were mirror images of each other. The small pet peeve I have about BMO is how it lookes the the North, East, South, and West were designed by 4 different guys.

Then MLSE could sell more boxes, I'm sure they'd go for that.

denime
09-17-2010, 05:29 AM
Is that Gareth 'denime' Wheeler posting...???

Carts...

Yeah,kind off it was.

But seriously I'm not joking,East 2nd level is coming.

What I eulkd like to see is South 2nd level terrace and all supporters to move up.It would be great for tifos too,see AL_MO I'm thinking about you too.

Mikey
09-17-2010, 07:26 AM
I dont really think ML$E BMO plans are TFC specific....

Shway
09-17-2010, 08:03 AM
I dont know how they can be talking about expansion (as much as I would like it), when they had the training facility that they proposed back early this year.

What happened to that?
No way both are going to be getting done!

menefreghista
09-17-2010, 08:07 AM
I dont know how they can be talking about expansion (as much as I would like it), when they had the training facility that they proposed back early this year.

What happened to that?
No way both are going to be getting done!

I think they are trying to get a municipality to foot most of the bill for their training facility.

As for the expansion, I agree with what's been mentioned above: ie. I think they were hoping a playoff berth would have increased demand and they could have used that as the impetus for expansion. As it stands now 22,000 is more than needed.

Its possible this idea will be shelved until this team has some optimism again.

koryo
09-17-2010, 08:08 AM
never heard about this. My question is where on earth would they put the extra 8k seats, Unless they plan to spend serious cash on adding a second level to the East side of the stadium... Maybe a roof too. :)

I remember Paul B. discussing this. First: add a second-tier to the East Stand. That would bring us up to 30K. Any expansion after that would involve the South End.

Shway
09-17-2010, 08:13 AM
Its possible this idea will be shelved until this team has some optimism again.

New Coach!
New Direction!
New Signings!
New Season!
New Kits!

.......that will always bring optimism for the TFC faithfuls.....



Im optimistic already!

Cashcleaner
09-17-2010, 08:21 AM
Expanding the stadium to 30,000 just makes sense. Yes, I said it makes sense. And here's why:

TFC will never be only team that plays there.

While it's hard to picture 30,000 people showing up consistantly to watch TFC play MLS regular season matches at BMO Field, it's not a stretch to see a crowd of that size show up for a match between, I dunno, let's say... Barcelona and Liverpool, or Man United and Real Madrid. You get the picture. While those seats may sit empty for much of the season, there is a good chance they'll be filled if any big-name clubs come to town.

And let's not forget that the Maple Leafs really REALLY want to play a Winter Classic somewhere in the city. Yes, it may be a game they'll play once every five years or so, but in the long run, it might end up being cheaper to use permanent seating rather that constantly putting up and taking down temporary bleachers.

DangerRed
09-17-2010, 08:22 AM
Btw, does anyone see bigger stadium = more money = sign players of higher caliber = better on-field performance?

...No? Nobody? Just checking.

Btw, are you familiar with the salary cap? Yes? No? Just checking.

Doesn't matter that gate sales go up if you're capped at $3 mln every year. You still need a squad, and that means your squad will be mostly guys worth in the $40K-$100K range.

This is bad idea because it'll kill the atmosphere. There's a reason most of the waiting list is red rather than gold. They're casuals, more of the "maybe I will, maybe I won't crowd."

"Our house" will start feeling really cavernous on matchday when it looks like there are 13,000 people missing. Just imagine a mid-week Voyageurs Cup game. It would feel like TFC have no fans at all.

maninb
09-17-2010, 08:25 AM
Expanding the stadium to 30,000 just makes sense. Yes, I said it makes sense. And here's why:

TFC will never be only team that plays there.

While it's hard to picture 30,000 people showing up consistantly to watch TFC play MLS regular season matches at BMO Field, it's not a stretch to see a crowd of that size show up for a match between, I dunno, let's say... Barcelona and Liverpool, or Man United and Real Madrid. You get the picture. While those seats may sit empty for much of the season, there is a good chance they'll be filled if any big-name clubs come to town.

And let's not forget that the Maple Leafs really REALLY want to play a Winter Classic somewhere in the city. Yes, it may be a game they'll play once every five years or so, but in the long run, it might end up being cheaper to use permanent seating rather that constantly putting up and taking down temporary bleachers.

The ONLY way it gets to 30,000 seats is if they put the Argos there...Is that what you want?

Cashcleaner
09-17-2010, 08:32 AM
The ONLY way it gets to 30,000 seats is if they put the Argos there...Is that what you want?

Got anything to back that up with, or is this just speculation on your part? I ask because you sound really sure about yourself, yet I don't see why you need one to have the other.

menefreghista
09-17-2010, 08:33 AM
The Argos aren't coming. You would need to tear down both the south and north stands to make it happen.

Oldtimer
09-17-2010, 08:44 AM
here's a news story confirming the expansion plans:

http://www.onenewspage.com/news/Sports/20100917/15118518/Toronto-FC-to-expand-BMO-Field.htm

stugautz
09-17-2010, 08:56 AM
How long will it take them to do this? Aren't there tons of approval that must go through council first?

Shway
09-17-2010, 08:57 AM
The ONLY way it gets to 30,000 seats is if they put the Argos there...Is that what you want?

DISCLAIMER OFF TOPIC

....but
The more and more I hear talk about the Argos, the more and more i think, that as the MLS grows, to a future 20 team league. It really doesnt even come to my mind that it would be possible for the Argos to play at BMO. If you have a future outlook to what Torontos schedule would consist of it would be 19 home games, and more if in the playoffs, plus (at the moment) 3 nutrilte home games, (if qualified) 5 champions league home games, and more if advancing. That brings a total number to 27+ possible home games a season.

Most of the additonal competitions take place in the May-August time frame.

*also noting that Toronto always has a couple away games to start the season.

CFL starts in July, and has about 9 home games.

I honestly DONT see this possible, because lets say toronto plays a champions league game on wednesday, Argos play on Friday, the gridiron lines get painted on, field gets molested, the field will not be healed in time for a Toronto league match on the Sunday.

So end the argos talk because ....

IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

http://cdn.complex.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/0330chewbacca.jpg

rdroze
09-17-2010, 08:58 AM
here's a news story confirming the expansion plans:

http://www.onenewspage.com/news/Sports/20100917/15118518/Toronto-FC-to-expand-BMO-Field.htm

That article doesn't confirm anything. It's just a re-quote of an article already posted.

Peddie's speech was just a "rah-rah, here's how great MLSE is and how much we're helping the people of Toronto, blah blah blah".

He said they "need" to expand based on a waiting list number. There's no way that anyone in MLSE believes that the "waiting list" is really a list of people clamoring to get season's tickets. It's just a mailing list of people who have, at some time, expressed interest in tickets.

MLSE can see the empty seats just as clearly as we can, and they're not stupid with their money. There's no way that they build an extra 8,000 seats with the demand as soft as it is now.

Chevy
09-17-2010, 09:08 AM
I really don't know what to think here...Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

I'm gonna choose to look only on the bright side here - let's assume that the expansion plans are part of a broader strategy that would include a "Henry-like" signing and maybe the development of the Academy facility we have seen plans for. Del-Piero, for example would add 10k in season's tickets without much trouble.

We know MLSE has the cash to do it, and despite what many say they actually do want to put winners on the ice/court/pitch (their ability to do so is another topic altogether).

Huyton
09-17-2010, 09:15 AM
Liverpool vs Porto brought 42,000 people out in 2004. Little did we know it at the time, but that game pitted the 2004 Champions League winners against the 2005 Champions League winners.

Davenport
09-17-2010, 09:21 AM
If this club continues on it's slide they'll need to reduce the capacity......

maninb
09-17-2010, 09:27 AM
Got anything to back that up with, or is this just speculation on your part? I ask because you sound really sure about yourself, yet I don't see why you need one to have the other.

Because there's no way TFC can consistently sell 30,000 tickets....so who else would use it besides the Leafs (once every 5 years) and 1 or 2 BIG NAME exhibition matches????

Bars92
09-17-2010, 09:30 AM
why? BMO is too small for the Argos. The North Stand effectively eliminated any extension of the field north. So right now you can't fit a CFL field in. Second, if they had to move back the south end to fit the CFL field, the field would be off centre, so many seats would have awkward views. Pantalone said it would cost multi-millions just to destroy the south end and rebuild.

Plus, by expanding to get more friendlies, they could easily get more $$$$ from that than by bringing in the Argos. Argos would want a heavy share of revenue. Not to mention the new grass field would be completely messed up by CFL.

If they expand, I really do see them as expanding solely for soccer. MLSE doesn't need the Argos at all.

I think city politics will come into play though, even though there are going to be a ton of friendlys by big Euro clubs every year. I'm not sure MLSE can keep the Argos out of a 30k stadium that is city owned. But I don't live in Toronto so I'm no expert on the subject.

billyfly
09-17-2010, 09:34 AM
“MLSE believes in Torontohttp://newsserve.net/e.png (http://www.onenewspage.com/category/leagues/mls/toronto) and if the initiatives we are looking at are good for our fans, Torontonians, and fiscally responsible, you will see many more city builder investments from us.”

Does Toronto believe in MLSEL though?

jabbronies
09-17-2010, 09:39 AM
We need a roof or two.

Davenport
09-17-2010, 09:54 AM
We need a roof or two.
A player or two would be a good start.

Toronto Ruffrider
09-17-2010, 10:02 AM
Rather than encourage the Argos to come, expansion will just make it that much more difficult for them to play at BMO. The playing field is already far too short by CFL standards. If additional seats are added on, specifically in the south end, they will provide even more infrastructure that has to be moved aside in order for the Argos to squeeze in. The Argos had a slim chance of moving in before the north stand was built; now they've got next to none.

__wowza
09-17-2010, 10:32 AM
found these online.

http://newdealme.com/BMO.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO1.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO2.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO3.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO4.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO5.jpg

ACSertL
09-17-2010, 10:41 AM
Also bear in mind BMO Field is also supposed to be the national football stadium of Canada.

Perhaps an expansion might allow for more high profile teams to come in and play matches v Canada, although that is probably wishful thinking that there is this kind of foresight with our national football association; the reality is Canadian supporters would probably be even more outnumbered in our own stadium. :(

werewolf
09-17-2010, 10:50 AM
Also bear in mind BMO Field is also supposed to be the national football stadium of Canada.

Perhaps an expansion might allow for more high profile teams to come in and play matches v Canada, although that is probably wishful thinking that there is this kind of foresight with our national football association; the reality is Canadian supporters would probably be even more outnumbered in our own stadium. :(

at least we could slowly start making money though. Think of how much the CSA could make if they somehow convinced Italy to come over here.

ACSertL
09-17-2010, 10:56 AM
at least we could slowly start making money though. Think of how much the CSA could make if they somehow convinced Italy to come over here.

Yeah that is a definite upside, at least in terms of money.

Fort York Redcoat
09-17-2010, 11:17 AM
Does anyone else think the timing of this is ludicrous? As more and more of the stadium is showing through with empty seats why would they take a risk in making us look like the rest of the league with empty seats?

I guess I shouldn't complain. 30k is still not that much but I hope enough casuals come out.

I don't think we have to worry about capacity for Canada games until the WCQ's. Sad but a fact.

Mikey
09-17-2010, 11:21 AM
The Argos aren't coming. You would need to tear down both the south and north stands to make it happen.

Regardless of the pitch, you cant get two CFL teams into dressing rooms that normally hold two MLS teams. Too many players and kit items.
CFL said as much when they were forced to come and do an inspection to shut the previous Argos owners up.

Dead subject.

Juanito
09-17-2010, 11:22 AM
I think 30 000 is a stretch for the current state of the club.

However, it could coincide with getting two "top-level DPs" to help put butts on the seats. The Red Bull have done this, not sure if it has worked, but most North American teams do this to entice fans to coming to the stadium/arena.

If a 30 000 stadium with a roof means we can get top-quality DPs .... then so be it. This may be part of the business plan from MLSE to justify getting some top quality players. It may even be necessary to attract players to Toronto. Food for thought.

David_Oliveira
09-17-2010, 11:28 AM
found these online.

http://newdealme.com/BMO.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO1.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO2.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO3.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO4.jpg


http://newdealme.com/BMO5.jpg

I don't know if these drawings are real or not. The stands are not to scale. This is showing the North stand the same as the West. Unless they plan a major overhaul.

__wowza
09-17-2010, 11:34 AM
I don't know if these drawings are real or not. The stands are not to scale. This is showing the North stand the same as the West. Unless they plan a major overhaul.

i'm sure they aren't. i can't imagine them putting in a grandstand on the west unless their intention is to keep the view of the toronto skyline open. i also hope that the roof wouldn't look like that, but i guess beggars can't be choosers.

maximo_rpd
09-17-2010, 11:36 AM
I have to laugh at ML$E - expand the stadium? This is going to lead to great cheap seats for us all, here is why:

- they couldn't even sell the extra seats they put in this year
- most games were 1/2 - 3/4 full this year
- the wait list is a joke, most won't pony up when they see the price
- tickets go for about 1/2 price on ebay... (bough and sold a few myself
this year...)
- many, many 4 year ST owners, like me will not renew this year

The result - I will have great tickets on ebay, to the games I can go to next year for less cost, no pre-payment 6-11 months in advance, no fuckin stupid scarf with black stripes (WTF?), no dorky white shoe bag, dumb TFC sticker with no logo, no mo, no bigoted anti Canadian Preki, no filling ML$E pockets unneccessarily, no mid-week non-MLS games that I have bought but can't use, no Real Madrid we should have got in our season package, no waiting 4 years for grass, no 2010 MLS Cup tickets given to 2011 ST holders (what!!! 2010 holders deserve those F'ing tickets!) - esentially no mo guff from ML$E - I am driving the bus from now on!

Whew - I feel so much better!!

Juanito
09-17-2010, 11:40 AM
A roof would be cool, but I wouldn't want them to break the bank. My suspision is that increasing the capacity to 30,000 and the possibility of increasing revenue may be what puts the plans on building a roof and getting expensive DPs possible.

Toronto FC is still a business, not a charity.

Some people have also mentioned that this may be part of the plans of the CSA to attract higher-profile teams. If we had a stadium like this, wouldn't you want to see Spain, Italy, England, Brazil, Argentina, or Germany for some friendlies? It would be possible.

If the CSA, MLSE, and the city of Toronto can agree to share the cost, it's a win-win-win for everyone. Canada can attract higher-profile squads, TFC can go and get the best players available and they may be able to show-off TFC better, we can attract better players. BMO would generate more money and that bodes well for the City of Toronto. It's hard to say, but I can make an argument for this move.

Alonso
09-17-2010, 12:12 PM
Yeah,kind off it was.

But seriously I'm not joking,East 2nd level is coming.

What I eulkd like to see is South 2nd level terrace and all supporters to move up.It would be great for tifos too,see AL_MO I'm thinking about you too.


Did your source mention a timeline for this?

Boris
09-17-2010, 12:18 PM
If the CSA, MLSE, and the city of Toronto can agree to share the cost, it's a win-win-win for everyone. Canada can attract higher-profile squads, TFC can go and get the best players available and they may be able to show-off TFC better, we can attract better players. BMO would generate more money and that bodes well for the City of Toronto. It's hard to say, but I can make an argument for this move.

GOOD LUCK getting CSA to agree to anything.......

fetajr
09-17-2010, 12:18 PM
30000 seats only if there is a large drop in ticket prices

TFC_Central
09-17-2010, 12:20 PM
30,000 - dear God no...

We'd have 5,000 empty seats on a good day / 15,000 empty seats on a bad night...

I'm hoping he was peitioning for "temporary stands" that would equal 8,000 extra tix for the Winter Classic... Although I don't know how they'd do that...

Carts....

Yet the south end is always filled in? Its not about seats. Its about true football heads laughing at the ridiculous prices. 20/ game is very reasonable. This move would be fine, if the new seats were priced well they would have no problem selling out.

TFC_Central
09-17-2010, 12:21 PM
GOOD LUCK getting CSA to agree to anything.......

If this happens i would say have the cmnt play exclusively from BMO no more honduran / mexico takeovers of montreal / edmonton.

Huyton
09-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Those images came from a person called Wyliepoon, over at UrbanToronto forum: http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?8777-BMO-Field-Expansion/page5 . He says "I designed and posted a fantasy version of a BMO Field expansion some time ago. In case you haven't seen it..."

So no, don't think of these "artists renderings" as anything that may get implemented.

Technorgasm
09-17-2010, 12:31 PM
Its Mo's fault. . lets Fire him!!!


oh. .


wait, , ,

Juanito
09-17-2010, 12:34 PM
These are very rough numbers, I don't have the data to give you exact figures.

The average cost of a match ticket is about $50. That means that a 22,000 seat stadium can generate $1.1 million.

If we keep the ticket prices at this average, a 30,000 seat stadium can generate $1.5 million which means there is a potential to generating an extra $6 million a season. I haven't included Champions League, friendlies, and all that other stuff.

The cost of the upgrades can be offset with the extra revenue. If this helps put a better product on the pitch and the product plus the stadium makes for a better footie experience, then we shouldn't be slagging it.

If we the supporters are asked to fit the bill .... I would be very upset.

Cashcleaner
09-17-2010, 12:41 PM
Because there's no way TFC can consistently sell 30,000 tickets....so who else would use it besides the Leafs (once every 5 years) and 1 or 2 BIG NAME exhibition matches????

Yeah, we're talking about 1 or 2 BIG NAME exhibition matches - PER YEAR. And throw in the number of potential MLS playoffs matches or CONCACAF games - PER YEAR. And potential National Team matches - PER YEAR. Over the span of a few years that will all add up.

So yes, as I mentioned previously, TFC would be hard-pressed to sell 30,000 tickets on a regular basis. But when you throw into the mix all other possible events that can take place at BMO Field, it will probably end up being a sound investment given the interest we've already seen for big international team matches.

ManUtd4ever
09-17-2010, 12:46 PM
I would support BMO Field expansion to 30,000 seats if the pricing structure throughout the stadium was scaled back to 2007 figures. In that scenario I could easily envision 90% capacity for MLS/NCC/CCL matches...

redcard
09-17-2010, 12:48 PM
These are very rough numbers, I don't have the data to give you exact figures.

The average cost of a match ticket is about $50. That means that a 22,000 seat stadium can generate $1.1 million.

If we keep the ticket prices at this average, a 30,000 seat stadium can generate $1.5 million which means there is a potential to generating an extra $6 million a season. I haven't included Champions League, friendlies, and all that other stuff.

The cost of the upgrades can be offset with the extra revenue. If this helps put a better product on the pitch and the product plus the stadium makes for a better footie experience, then we shouldn't be slagging it.

If we the supporters are asked to fit the bill .... I would be very upset.

do you really believe that if mlse ponies up the money for expansion of the stadium that the STHs wont pay...ofcourse we will...we paid when the dp was signed and i believe for the north stand...nothing comes without a price especially from mlse...

habstfc
09-17-2010, 01:00 PM
The one thing you can't deny is the ability of mlse to make money. I'm sure they've looked at this and have seen dollar signs in their eyes. I don't think they would propose this if it wasn't feasible financially. It doesn't matter if 30,000 people are at each and every game, all that matters is that they can squeeze out another dollar. They have 20,000 people showing up for games for a team that is not very successful on the pitch, their thinking is when the team is successful on the pitch they need those seats to put people when demand goes up. Look at seattle, they play in a stadium that holds 70,000 people, their stadium is only half filled technically, but they do have those extra seats available if need be, TFC needs the ability to have extra seats available also. It's better to have more seats even if they all aren't being used.

__wowza
09-17-2010, 01:15 PM
Those images came from a person called Wyliepoon, over at UrbanToronto forum: http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?8777-BMO-Field-Expansion/page5 . He says "I designed and posted a fantasy version of a BMO Field expansion some time ago. In case you haven't seen it..."

So no, don't think of these "artists renderings" as anything that may get implemented.


thank ya, yeah i didn't remember where i'd seen these. they were just on my work computer. thought it kinda had a "st james park" feel to it, what with being horribly uneven and all.

habstfc
09-17-2010, 04:28 PM
I'm just wondering how quickly they could add these additions. With the mls season ending in october and starting in late march, early april, when would they do this. It's not alot of time between october and april to erect this. They would probably have to start their season off with a significant delay at home.

menefreghista
09-17-2010, 04:34 PM
I'm just wondering how quickly they could add these additions. With the mls season ending in october and starting in late march, early april, when would they do this. It's not alot of time between october and april to erect this. They would probably have to start their season off with a significant delay at home.

Don't forget that BMO Field is booked for November 21 for the MLS Cup.

flatpicker
09-17-2010, 04:35 PM
I'm just wondering how quickly they could add these additions. With the mls season ending in october and starting in late march, early april, when would they do this. It's not alot of time between october and april to erect this. They would probably have to start their season off with a significant delay at home.


I don't think it's a big deal.
We have a Lego stadium... it's snaps together in no time.
They got that north stand up pretty quickly.

habstfc
09-17-2010, 04:43 PM
Don't forget that BMO Field is booked for November 21 for the MLS Cup.

I think it would probably happen for 2012 at the earliest.

habstfc
09-17-2010, 04:45 PM
I don't think it's a big deal.
We have a Lego stadium... it's snaps together in no time.
They got that north stand up pretty quickly.

I agree, bmo construction wise isn't that complicated, but if you're adding another level on the east side that's alot of work to be done, you don't just throw that up in a couple of months.

denime
09-17-2010, 04:46 PM
Did your source mention a timeline for this?

This upcoming off season 2010-11.

Apparently east side will be 1st upgraded,South not sure.
It's pure math East side seats are more expensive than south,plus they can squeeze Private boxes between two levels on east side,and it want be straight to 30K,more like 28K and later on 30K I'm assuming that would be 2nd level south stands.

and BTW Argos move is off the table so don't waste your time discussing it.

SmokedPanda
09-17-2010, 04:52 PM
30,000 seats would also be good for them to host the soccer games for the upcoming 2015 pan am games

rocker
09-17-2010, 06:16 PM
This upcoming off season 2010-11.

Apparently east side will be 1st upgraded,South not sure.
It's pure math East side seats are more expensive than south,plus they can squeeze Private boxes between two levels on east side,and it want be straight to 30K,more like 28K and later on 30K I'm assuming that would be 2nd level south stands.

that's interesting... so they'd have to build a concourse on level with the last row of the current east stand, with concessions and washrooms... maybe have those big staircases to get up there like on the north and south sides.

they could probably build that even during the season, since it wouldn't interfere in any way with the east stand...

Hooligan69
09-17-2010, 06:29 PM
The amount of empty seats for home games would increase dramatically. Wonderful.

Gazza_55
09-17-2010, 07:20 PM
Because there's no way TFC can consistently sell 30,000 tickets....so who else would use it besides the Leafs (once every 5 years) and 1 or 2 BIG NAME exhibition matches????

Where have I heard this before? Oh ya in 2006. 'No way TFC will ever sell 20k consistently. They will be lucky if 5,000 people show up.' Remember that. It was on every media outlet in the city.

rocker
09-17-2010, 07:34 PM
whether TFC could consistently sell 30000 depends totally on price. Current prices? No. If every seat was $20? sure thing! :)

ilikemusic
09-17-2010, 07:49 PM
Pretty shocking news considering TFC is going to be close to 10K a game if they dont actually start to improve.

I wouldnt be shocked if MLSE petitions the NHL for a yearly outdoor game!

Im all for expansion, but this just doesnt seem like the right time.

Inklink
09-17-2010, 08:20 PM
Kindly fill in the corners. Thanks.

billyfly
09-17-2010, 08:58 PM
Kindly fill in the corners. Thanks.

You can't as has been discussed before over the course of many BMO expansion threads over the years. Fire regulations and ambulance access etc...

billyfly
09-17-2010, 09:00 PM
The talk of expanding BMO comes from the likelyhood that the PAN AM games will provide monies to MLSE to help off-set the cost of the build.

This is the "synergy" that MLSE is so good at. They invest money in civic projects but they know how to use their leverage with the different levels of gov't to partner in the cost and build.

billyfly
09-17-2010, 09:04 PM
I dont really think ML$E BMO plans are TFC specific....

BINGO

The outdoor NHL winter game is a major factor and tie that to the PAN AM games and trying to get a "partner" to help them build it.

BakaGaijin
09-17-2010, 09:20 PM
BINGO

The outdoor NL winter game is a major factor and tie that to the PAN AM games and trying to get a "partner" to help them build it.


...but wouldn't that fuck up the grass right before our February Champions League home dates?!?

:smilielol5:

Hitcho
09-17-2010, 09:20 PM
This seems like madness. On Tuesday we were all banging on about declining attendances being ultimately responsible for the termination of our GM and head coach. Now on Friday we're suddenly talking about having 10,000 more seats added?

Unless MLSE sorts out the team rather than the money that flows from it, all I can picture is 15,000 empty seats and a tiny cluster of away fans in one corner being heard to sing "shit ground no fans, shit ground no fans".

*shudder*

hamiltonfan
09-18-2010, 02:18 AM
Mikey is correct, in addition to the increased season ticket payments..and that will happen for the first few years, its all about the Maple Leafs playing a outdoor game a year and other large events. BMO is just a bit bigger than the ACC, doesnt make sense to operate two venues with the same capacity.

I'm not to worried about the atmosphere at BMO. There are many big clubs that play in mastive stadiums with ten thousands empty seats for regular season games. Add a roof to the supporters section and then everyone is happy:flare:

TFC_Central
09-18-2010, 03:52 AM
Also bear in mind BMO Field is also supposed to be the national football stadium of Canada.

Perhaps an expansion might allow for more high profile teams to come in and play matches v Canada, although that is probably wishful thinking that there is this kind of foresight with our national football association; the reality is Canadian supporters would probably be even more outnumbered in our own stadium. :(

reality? what reality? Toronto is not Montreal my friend. Remember the Game Vs Jamaica? I do. I was in 112. I can safely say Canadians outnumbered the Jamaicans easy. However meaningless friendlies after a world cup area a different story, were you really expecting a sellout?

TFC_Central
09-18-2010, 04:07 AM
The only real issue I see here is a potential pissing contest amongst supporters groups. Noone has mentioned this yet,

The only problem for supporters with this increace of capacity is re-location & unification.

Here is what should happen.

Another deck goes on top of the south end. It is designated the new supporter stand. It also has a roof! It is a terrace design. All supporters groups put away their ***** and move to the stand. They coordinate capos and sing under one united voice for the first time in club history.

Why bother about attendance? This is a supporters board at the end of the day!!! Casual fans will come and go. Supporters will stand strong. Hopefully in the new south end 2nd deck....... United as one?

canadian_bhoy
09-18-2010, 09:17 AM
Has Paul B chimed in on this? Does he even go on the boards anymore? I haven't seem him posting very much.

jazzy
09-18-2010, 10:19 AM
I want seasons tickets, too, in a supporters section, no less.

How long is the waiting list? 15,000? And how many of those are just for single tickets? I suspect that many of the people on that list want two or more.

And MLSE is not that interested in how many people show up, but more in how many seats they can sell.

Don't get me wrong, since they get a share of the concessions, the more people who show up, the more beer gets sold, and the more money they make.

this waiting list is highly fabricated..my wife is on it, I'm on it separately...and both of us don't want anymore tickets.....we just hope things don't get REAL pricey.....we presently have 2 ST's ....and we have 4 friends close by that have probably only attended 2 games each ,.. ST holders in 111......why we're not sure, family commitments?.....and those seats are empty every game....there is presently no real draw to pull these fairweather fans in....perhaps these tickets are given up next year? I presume many fans are similar.

nascarguy
09-18-2010, 10:26 AM
Has Paul B chimed in on this? Does he even go on the boards anymore? I haven't seem him posting very much.yeah I would love to hear what he has to say. I have never like MLSE they do not know how to run a winning team and make there money maker's happy.

Carts
09-18-2010, 10:41 AM
This seems like madness. On Tuesday we were all banging on about declining attendances being ultimately responsible for the termination of our GM and head coach. Now on Friday we're suddenly talking about having 10,000 more seats added?

Unless MLSE sorts out the team rather than the money that flows from it, all I can picture is 15,000 empty seats and a tiny cluster of away fans in one corner being heard to sing "shit ground no fans, shit ground no fans".

*shudder*

If MLSE wants to see what that looks like - watch a Columbus Crew match...

We're on our way there... :(

Carts...

deltox
09-18-2010, 12:26 PM
the gap in the south east corner might have been planned for an ambulance....but thats not the case. there is now a semi permanent beer stand there. the ambulance is always housed on the north west side (where it has direct road access)

deltox
09-18-2010, 12:32 PM
also, the expansion is a longtime thing. having a decline in attendance right now doesnt matter.

habstfc
09-18-2010, 05:00 PM
also, the expansion is a longtime thing. having a decline in attendance right now doesnt matter.

I am pretty sure expansion will be done for the 2012 season.

deltox
09-18-2010, 05:11 PM
^ right....but its for many many yrs to come....its not just for the 2012 season.


in business they plan in advance.

greatwhitenorf
09-19-2010, 03:33 AM
Mayor Miller spoke informally at two events I was present at over the past two years and said the plan the city envisions is to rebuild the east side to mirror the current west side. The metal stands on the east side are fairly easy to take down. The big plum in doing this apparently is to double the number of lucrative suites, which are in very high demand.

A second tier on the south side was also mentioned. Total capacity under that plan would be a very cozy 32,000. The increased capacity would allow for more lower-cost seats to be available to keep crowd numbers high, whether for TFC games or international friendlies.

Don't care about a roof. Love being out in the open air. Game looks so much better without goofy shadows caused by massive overhanging roofs.

tfc2008
09-19-2010, 08:47 AM
REPORT: Toronto FC Owner MLSE Officially Confirms BMO Field 30,000 Seat Expansion Rumor (http://www.mls-rumors.net/10964/2010/09/report-toronto-fc-owner-mlse-officially-confirms-bmo-field-30000-seat-expansion-rumor/)

tfc2008
09-19-2010, 08:48 AM
http://www.mls-rumors.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/bmofield30k.jpg

Pookie
09-19-2010, 09:00 AM
Seems like someone is getting more corporate welfare.

Cashcleaner
09-19-2010, 09:58 AM
^ My gut tells me that the city won't be offering any more money up for this expansion.

redcard
09-19-2010, 10:11 AM
^ My gut tells me that the city won't be offering any more money up for this expansion.

which invariably means that the STH's will be paying...

ArmenJBX
09-19-2010, 10:45 AM
http://www.mls-rumors.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/bmofield30k.jpg

Did you make this or is this the city plans?

Chevy
09-19-2010, 10:55 AM
^^ I think this is originally from some design site - no affiliation whatsoever with MLSE.

Huyton
09-19-2010, 08:39 PM
I think some of the money for the upgrade will come from the Pan Am games.

Blizzard
09-19-2010, 10:30 PM
I think some of the money for the upgrade will come from the Pan Am games.

You may be on to something there.

Inklink
09-19-2010, 10:49 PM
http://www.mls-rumors.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/bmofield30k.jpg

Woah. It's like a UFO landed on BMO Field. Well, a UFO with a hole in the middle and 10,000 seats. :D

Alonso
09-19-2010, 11:04 PM
whether TFC could consistently sell 30000 depends totally on price. Current prices? No. If every seat was $20? sure thing! :)

I agree, they better be smart about it and pretend like its year 1... (pun intended)

But I mean this, the prices better start at the bottom again to light the fire under this thing again and hopefully in three years, with a successful team, demand is through the roof again and then they can start considering raising prices again.

I'm seriously considering my options this year. With all these empty seats it wouldn't be too hard to attend every game at a much lower price then I'm currently paying.

Canary Canuck
09-20-2010, 01:40 AM
Mayor Miller spoke informally at two events I was present at over the past two years and said the plan the city envisions is to rebuild the east side to mirror the current west side. The metal stands on the east side are fairly easy to take down. The big plum in doing this apparently is to double the number of lucrative suites, which are in very high demand.

Couldn't they achieve that by simply putting another deck on on the current east stand? Is it really necessary to tear it down and build a new stand?

Brooker
09-20-2010, 02:51 AM
http://www.mls-rumors.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/bmofield30k.jpg

figures somebody would post this again. it has nothing to do with anything and is fucking HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE!

80,000ish?!

deltox
09-20-2010, 07:14 AM
^ yeah - looks like wembley

menefreghista
09-20-2010, 07:30 AM
http://www.mls-rumors.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/bmofield30k.jpg

If anyone ever needed proof as to why MLS Rumors is an absolute joke of a site, than here it is.

Some fan makes a mock up of what he thinks an expanded BMO Field might look like and MLS Rumors reports it like its a true rendering.

Of course, the site continues to live on because idiots just eat this shit up for some reason.

Cashcleaner
09-20-2010, 08:41 AM
I think some of the money for the upgrade will come from the Pan Am games.

Hmmmm.... I guess it's possible. The stadium in Hamilton is the big project for the Pan-Am Games, though. It's definitely plausible.

menefreghista
09-20-2010, 08:46 AM
Does the Pan Am games committee have any more money to give out? Aren't they already committed to a new York U. track and field project that wasn't in the original bid?

Besides, a 22,000 seat stadium is adequate for the Pan Am games bigger matches.

Huyton
09-20-2010, 10:54 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if there is a need for extra dressing rooms, media facilities and the like for the games. If the cost of an East Stand is 15 million, with this cost split three ways between Pan Am, various levels of Government (City, Provincial and Federal) along with MLSE, then that might be just the sort of partnership Peddie was hinting about.

ACSertL
09-20-2010, 11:07 AM
reality? what reality? Toronto is not Montreal my friend. Remember the Game Vs Jamaica? I do. I was in 112. I can safely say Canadians outnumbered the Jamaicans easy. However meaningless friendlies after a world cup area a different story, were you really expecting a sellout?

I was in 112 myself, so I remember it vividly. And what difference does it make whether it is a WCQ or a "meaningless friendly"? Shouldn't Canada supporters come out to see their national side regardless of the type of match?

In addition, I wouldn't say we outnumbered them easy...Canada had a majority of the supporters there no doubt but I don't think it is as lop sided as you claim it to be.

Dave67
09-20-2010, 11:49 AM
Hmmmm.... I guess it's possible. The stadium in Hamilton is the big project for the Pan-Am Games, though. It's definitely plausible.

That's been falling apart on a daily basis. Would not be surprised if they pulled the whole venture out of Hamilton. They thought the Tiger Cats and the City would play nicey nice with each other and it ain't happened yet.

fetajr
09-20-2010, 01:07 PM
I was in 112 myself, so I remember it vividly. And what difference does it make whether it is a WCQ or a "meaningless friendly"? Shouldn't Canada supporters come out to see their national side regardless of the type of match?

In addition, I wouldn't say we outnumbered them easy...Canada had a majority of the supporters there no doubt but I don't think it is as lop sided as you claim it to be.


Labour day weekend is a tough sell... Canadianized Canada supporters like drinking, bbq, cottage, camping and alot of other stuff that happens to be away from downtown. Had it been any other regular saturday, i woulda been there.

ACSertL
09-20-2010, 01:29 PM
Labour day weekend is a tough sell... Canadianized Canada supporters like drinking, bbq, cottage, camping and alot of other stuff that happens to be away from downtown. Had it been any other regular saturday, i woulda been there.

It wasn't my intention to point fingers at people. Scheduling it over the Labour Day long weekend was a product of it being a FIFA International matchday.

habstfc
09-20-2010, 11:36 PM
Can't wait, I could see my beloved habs stomp the maple laughs on a new years day game, and then a few months later see my beloved TFC stomp the impact.

Brooker
09-20-2010, 11:39 PM
Can't wait, I could see my beloved habs stomp the laughs on a new years day game, and then a few months later see my beloved TFC stomp the impact.


a montreal AND toronto fan?

LOL. Cant make that up!

habstfc
09-21-2010, 12:33 AM
a montreal AND toronto fan?

LOL. Cant make that up!

There are more of us out there than you think.

Toronto Ruffrider
09-21-2010, 01:00 AM
There are more of us out there than you think.

For an Amazing Race-style corporate function, I once had to wear a Habs jersey outside of the ACC and serve as a route marker. No one ever complained about the jersey. In fact, a few pedestrians actually complimented it.

greatwhitenorf
09-21-2010, 01:38 AM
Couldn't they achieve that by simply putting another deck on on the current east stand? Is it really necessary to tear it down and build a new stand?

Well, first thing to remember is that MLSE wheel Larry Tanenbaum is the king of concrete around here.

They want the suites and mirroring the west side means they will have support services properly housed in a bigger stand. Plus better washrooms and concessions. The east side is a bit like Hong Kong harbour now when we have a full house.

billyfly
09-21-2010, 09:08 AM
There are more of us out there than you think.


Ron Ford is going to get rid of you guys.

Also should add that if Ford doesn't get you, Grabovski will most likely punch you in the face (bring your wife lol....)

habstfc
09-21-2010, 09:20 AM
Are the citizens of toronto actually considering voting for that guy. Must be something in the water.

Ben - D.O.W.
09-21-2010, 09:22 AM
The east side is a bit like Hong Kong harbour now when we have a full house.

Do we have those any more? Full houses that is.

billyfly
09-21-2010, 09:41 AM
Are the citizens of toronto actually considering voting for that guy. Must be something in the water.

Yes the citizens of Toronto (capital T thank you very much), are allowed to do stupid things (like boldly declare themselves fans of other city's teams)....lol

habstfc
09-21-2010, 09:48 AM
I'm not a citizen of toronto, don't live there. It's funny I went to the tailgate in early may and met a couple of fellow rpb who are also habs fans. Growing up in barrie in the 70's and 80's it was probably a 50/50 split between leafs and non leafs fans. Lots of bruins fans, islanders, philly, oilers etc. Now I see lots of detroit, ottawa, pittsburgh. Back to topic, it WILL be really sweet to see habs beat leafs in outdoors game, no really it would.

billyfly
09-21-2010, 10:05 AM
I'm not a citizen of toronto, don't live there. It's funny I went to the tailgate in early may and met a couple of fellow rpb who are also habs fans. Growing up in barrie in the 70's and 80's it was probably a 50/50 split between leafs and non leafs fans. Lots of bruins fans, islanders, philly, oilers etc. Now I see lots of detroit, ottawa, pittsburgh. Back to topic, it WILL be really sweet to see habs beat leafs in outdoors game, no really it would.

And some of us wonder why the RPB isn't a truly united group.....

Huyton
09-21-2010, 10:21 AM
And some of us wonder why the RPB isn't a truly united group.....

Hell...we have people who show up in Supporter sections wearing shirts of football teams from Europe.

There's lots of people here whose avatar or signature references non-TFC teams. In my own defence, Milltown FC started as a result of a discussion on this forum called Project True FC.

Redcoe15
09-21-2010, 10:26 AM
Are the citizens of toronto actually considering voting for that guy. Must be something in the water.
Well they did vote for Mel Lastman as their mayor. Twice. :ack2:

billyfly
09-21-2010, 10:27 AM
^Yeah, not trying to start a sh*tstorm here.

Its a topic I feel strongly about but I know that not everyone feels the same way.

BakaGaijin
09-21-2010, 11:11 AM
Are the citizens of toronto actually considering voting for that guy. Must be something in the water.

Rob Ford is a HUGE Argo's supporters. I wonder if this expansion is also focused on further ensuring that the Argo's never play at BMO considering that it looks like Ford will be the next mayor. *facepalm*

rocker
09-21-2010, 11:13 AM
Rob Ford is a HUGE Argo's supporters. I wonder if this expansion is also focused on further ensuring that the Argo's never play at BMO considering that it looks like Ford will be the next mayor. *facepalm*

oh my. don't give me ANOTHER reason to be worried about Rob Ford as mayor! shit!

Imagine this shocking development: Rob Ford changes his perspective on taxpayer funding and decides it's OK to give 10 million to the Argos to expand BMO for CFL. "It's good for the community and the youth."

Brooker
09-22-2010, 02:27 PM
There are more of us out there than you think.

and it's hilarious.

Waggy
09-22-2010, 02:58 PM
oh my. don't give me ANOTHER reason to be worried about Rob Ford as mayor! shit!

Imagine this shocking development: Rob Ford changes his perspective on taxpayer funding and decides it's OK to give 10 million to the Argos to expand BMO for CFL. "It's good for the community and the youth."

Ugh, will NEVER HAPPEN. BMO would require a total rebuild to accommodate the CFL- TFC doesn't want it, MLSE doesn't want it, the Argos no longer want it, there's no smoke, there's no fire. If anything he may approve funding for the Argos to build a similar stadium to BMO which would be the best possible outcome for everyone

habstfc
09-22-2010, 11:33 PM
Ugh, will NEVER HAPPEN. BMO would require a total rebuild to accommodate the CFL- TFC doesn't want it, MLSE doesn't want it, the Argos no longer want it, there's no smoke, there's no fire. If anything he may approve funding for the Argos to build a similar stadium to BMO which would be the best possible outcome for everyone

Agreed. I don't see the argos coming to bmo, too many stadium issues.

kodiakTFC
09-23-2010, 02:47 AM
Agreed. I don't see the argos coming to bmo, too many stadium issues.

I do hope they get their own stadium though, their fans deserve it.

Huyton
09-23-2010, 05:56 AM
The Argos wanted a state of the art stadium 30 years ago.

Half a billion dollars of taxpayers money, and they got it.


Then, the Argos decideded that they needed a more intimate stadium, and on October 20, 2004, on the Daily Commercial News and Construction Record web site that
"York University has announced that an agreement has been reached for the construction of a 25,000-seat stadium on the York University Keele campus. The stadium will be the new home of the Toronto Argonauts and a worldclass venue for Canadian soccer.

The new stadium, which will become part of the regional athletic centre being created on York’s campus, will also play a significant role in the Canadian Soccer Association’s (CSA) hosting of the 2007 FIFA World Youth Championship, which will be played in six Canadian cities. The championship has a budget of approximately $30 million, almost half of which will be spent in Toronto.
“This $70-million project is an example of successful co-operation between governments, York University, amateur and professional sports,” said Joe Volpe, federal Minister Responsible for the Greater Toronto Area, who confirmed that the federal government will be contributing $27 million toward the cost of the new stadium.
Ontario Minister of Tourism and Recreation Jim Bradley stated: “The McGuinty government is pleased to be a part of a project that will greatly improve recreational opportunities for the local community, the university and athletes across Ontario.”
York University will provide the land for the new stadium as well as $15 million.
Private funding, led by Argo coowners Howard Sokolowski and David Cynamon, will contribute another $20 million, and the Ontario government will provide $8 million. In addition, the Argos will be responsible for any operating shortfall on an annual basis that might arise from the operation of the stadium. The new stadium, which will become a home for Canadian soccer, home field for the Argos in 2006, and host the FIFA World Youth Championship, will remain the property of York University.

526


Next, on May 12, 2005, the CBC reported that:
York University has pulled out of a plan to build a new $70-million sports stadium on its campus in Toronto.

The move comes less than a month after the CFL's Toronto Argonauts dropped plans to relocate the proposed facility. The Argos opted instead to remain at the Rogers Centre in downtown Toronto after being offered rent-free use of the dome.
The Argos were committed to contribute $20 million to the project, as well as any cost overruns for the 25,000-seat stadium. The federal government committed $27 million and the provincial government another $8 million. The university was to donate the land and $15 million.


The project was scheduled to break ground this summer.
However, with the Argos no longer involved, York decided it was best to pull out of the project too.


So, to hell with the Argos.

menefreghista
09-23-2010, 06:40 AM
I'm happy the York U. stadium collapsed. Its my belief that TFC never comes into existence otherwise.

loconet
09-25-2010, 12:14 AM
ESPND commentator mentioned the expansion during the NYRB and Galaxy game tonight saying Toronto FC has announced it, also mentions the 17k(?) waiting list.

nascarguy
09-25-2010, 12:24 AM
you should rename this to bmo to exand to 30,000 sucker will to pay a arm and a leg