Expectations of the Post Mo Era

[Stencils]

I'm very curious what people honestly think the upshot of the changes we've just had will be. What do you expect will happen with the remaining season? What do we have to look forward to in 2011? So much has been made of getting rid of Mo that perhaps the sense of victory in there is hiding the realities we still have to face.

For my part, I think getting rid of Mo puts us back at square one with this team, perhaps square two...? The team isn't going to magically start winning games. I think realistically we have to be prepared for yet another insipid season (2011) before we can level too much criticism on how the team is being run. Let's face it, if you're only happy with management when you're winning every game, you're going to be a very unhappy person.

Mo has been a problem, sure, but let's not forget one of the other big issues we've had as a team: high turnover. I don't think you can look to other teams' overnight successes as an example of how we should be performing because this team and this city is not that team or city.

I hope and expect to at the very least see a competitive team in the coming season if not a playoff team. Despite last nights debacle @ RSL, I saw hints of a more attacking, more free flowing side. If they can deliver us that team minus the ridiculous errors (and perhaps minus foul hungry Saric and Garcia) I'll be happy.

[pekduck]

back to square minus one really.

whoever comes in need to undo mo's damage first to get to a clean slate, that's resetting the balance.

then he can get in some of the right people to get to square one

[KdotOdot]

We're gonna get shit on yet again for another 3 years then move the team to Hamilton.

[Stencils]

What exactly do we consider Mo's damage to be? I'm pretty sure we were unhappy with his influence in the dressing room (or supposed influence) and his questionable tactics with regard getting the right players at the right time.

What are the 'lasting' effects of Mo? Who or what is left over that constitutes his 'damage'? Are we talking the player roster? I'd probably agree there. Building the right group of players is certainly a key component that Mo seemed to lack the talent for.

[Chevy]

Yep, back to square one. The team just isn't that good. Period.

Expect next year to be very similar to this one - lots of new faces, players on trial etc. We just have to hope that the management of the process will improve dramatically.

[DangerRed]

This is an easy one:

Rest of the season will be no different than what we've seen. We will fail to make the MLS playoffs and we we fail to make it past the group stage of the CCL.

Then, as we languish in a long offseason, a new manager will be announced. He'll be one of two things: a) an erstwhile manager from a European league other than any of the English tiers or b) one of the middle-of-the-road MLS coaches. MLSE may be reluctant on option b), given what just happened.

And so the new maybe Euromanager will come in, take a look at the team, and start swinging the axe. While the likes of Garcia and Peterson are cut, either one or both of Frei (who I met recently, great guy) or Nana will leave for greener pastures overseas. We will lament this greatly. The big question mark will hang over JDG, but I don't think MLSE will let the Euromanager break his contract because of monetary reasons.

Then, we'll get to the preseason. TFC will again scare the shit out of its fanbase by losing to a number of university teams. After a sputtery start, and maybe a few MLS signings (Mista will be long gone too by this point, since we've paid him $100,000 a week for precisely one or two goals), we'll catch our drift.

Maybe a couple more signings will occur, and maybe the Euromanager can make them gel. Maybe we won't fall apart in the summer and maybe we'll not win the Canadian Championship in 2011. Maybe we'll make the playoffs.

Maybe. Unless you completely blow up the squad, I would suggest our expectations of the post-Mo era should be tinged by a high degree of realism/skepticism.

[Beach_Red]

What exactly do we consider Mo's damage to be? I'm pretty sure we were unhappy with his influence in the dressing room (or supposed influence) and his questionable tactics with regard getting the right players at the right time.

What are the 'lasting' effects of Mo? Who or what is left over that constitutes his 'damage'? Are we talking the player roster? I'd probably agree there. Building the right group of players is certainly a key component that Mo seemed to lack the talent for.


In another thread I posted how poorly this firing was handled and how the new coach was set-up to fail. At the press conference Anselmi said that the decision to fire the GM and Coach wasn't made, "after one game," which means they'd been thinking about it for a while and decided to put in a new coach right before a road game against one of the best teams in the league, undermining any confidence and good feelings the change in coaches may have made.

I think Mo's biggest problem was that he was very inexperienced in management and learned from the guys who hired him.

If the next manager is very experienced and gets a long-term contract he might be able to change things. If it's another guy with a young family to support desperate for a job and too quick to try and please his bosses there'll be more of the same.

But with the right guy MLS teams can turn around in one year.

[J .]

We have three people now in charge who were apart of the dysfunctional CSA or National Team, and we know how well that played out.

These guys have no accountability and its always somebody else.

I sadly expect this season to be a disaster and a clearing of house. They need to bring in someone who can clear the decks of the same dead wood that cost us 5-0 in NY, that has cost us a seven game winless streak now.

I expect Dasovic to give the same platitudes that Cummins got on about, effort and blaming the F.O. Forget it, that tune is over played and I have been hearing it for three years from these CSA castoffs. First with qualifying, last season and now. Three times, the same result.

Hopefully Anselmi will see through this, bring in a guy who can clear the decks. If there was any justice, they would play Henry and Lindsay the rest of the way, bench OBW, DeRo, Mista and JDG. Those four guys have done nothing in seven games. OBW is in a role he shouldnt be in while the three amigos have no accountability in their game.

Expectations? None that are any good for this season.

[Oldtimer]

I have faint hope, but no expectations for this year.

Chivas had to blow up Preki's squad. Our new GM will have to do the same.

We'll be a 5th year expansion team, minus the draft picks, and with the added weight of some really bad contracts. We'll have a few good players to build from, but that's it. Oh, and we'll get a "you suck" allocation for missing the playoffs.

Realistically, it will take 2 years for a good manager to turn things around (but not longer. No "five year plan" this time).

[Parkdale]

I just hope that MLSE understands that this is .... their last kick at the can
If they don't turn this team around with this reboot, it's as good as dead.
Sure we'll still be there, but I expect a mass exodus from the stadium if things
not not greatly improve. This team had the potential to change the city.
They went from being the hottest ticket in town, with the best atmosphere
and most importantly - potential to grow - and have slide back into the same
old Toronto Sports trap. This is their last chance to save the team.

I hope they don't fuck it up, but I'm not very confident.

One thing I know for sure - If Vancouver does better than us in their first season, we're cooked.

[dow117]

Nothing changes really ... we need more quality on the ball period. I admire some of the journeymen on the team ( aka Cann ) but there really is only 2-3 players with genuine quality and are comfortable on the ball. The worker bees continue to panic and stroke tha ball anywhere...

[Carts]

I just hope that MLSE understands that this is .... their last kick at the can
If they don't turn this team around with this reboot, it's as good as dead.
Sure we'll still be there, but I expect a mass exodus from the stadium if things
not not greatly improve. This team had the potential to change the city.
They went from being the hottest ticket in town, with the best atmosphere
and most importantly - potential to grow - and have slide back into the same
old Toronto Sports trap. This is their last chance to save the team.

I hope they don't fuck it up, but I'm not very confident.

One thing I know for sure - If Vancouver does better than us in their first season, we're cooked.

Very well said Parkie...

And its not just Toronto the City that could have been changed, but the PR spin at MLSE could have been huge too...

TFC become contenders and Champions in 5-years, we'd hear "...we hear at MLSE can build a winner when we work from scratch... see we are winners and will do the same with the Leafs & Raptors, it'll just take more time..."

Now its "...see, MLSE pretty much is losers in all competitive aspects, except making money..." :(

Carts...

[Wull]

I think we've given ourselves a good amount of time to try and find the right people, get them in place and start moulding the roster to their liking. This is the opposite of last time. I expect us to play better football than this year, score more goals, concede more and possibly miss the play-offs a la last year. However, I expect a settled core of players to be in place by then that we can build off for future seasons.

[JonO]

TFC is operating under a failed model. Firing Mo and Preki does nothing to fix the issue.

TFC is operating under the old Leafs/Raptors model which was having a meddling non-sports executive in charge of the club. This was the Peddie/JFJ, Peddie/Babcock model, with TFC its Anselmi/Whoever.

Just curious as to what meddling Anselmi has been doing?

[Roogsy]

My expectations? We're back to square one. Can't have high expectations when you suck and nothing points to things getting better.

[menefreghista]

TFC is operating under a failed model. Firing Mo and Preki does nothing to fix the issue.

TFC is operating under the old Leafs/Raptors model which was having a meddling non-sports executive in charge of the club. This was the Peddie/JFJ, Peddie/Babcock model, with TFC its Anselmi/Whoever.

The situation with Preki having to accept Daso as his assistant is an example of this. Coaches should have the ability to choose their own assistant coaches.

I'm not saying that Mo and Preki should not have been let go, I'm just saying they weren't the main problem here.

I agree with this.

The same idiots at MLSE are still really in charge of this team.

Does anyone expect the same morons who kept Mo Johnston after last years debacle in New York to actually properly move this team forward? I don't. They don't know what the fuck they are doing.

Do people expect the same managers that gave us Mo Johnston to give us someone better?

Their only concern is keeping the hope alive. Enough hope that people will still buy tickets and merchandise. That's why Mo and Preki were turfed right before season ticket renewal time.

I expect more of the same shit, just with different names.

---------------

By the way, I think the only thing that will save this team is the rumours that MLS might increase the number of teams that make the playoffs. If you noticed when the 34 game schedule was released MLS mentioned that the playoff format was not finalized. If the current model remains, 8 of 18 teams would make the playoffs next season. That's too high a failure rate for some people. It wouldn't surprise me if MLSE are some of the people behind making 10 or 12 teams get in.

[Beach_Red]

^ If they follow the same model they did with their other teams now that they've gotten rid of the inexperienced guy they'll offer a long-term contract to a guy with a lot of experience.

If that's what happens that'll be good, but how does someone make the same mistake three times and still keep his job?

[menefreghista]

^ If they follow the same model they did with their other teams now that they've gotten rid of the inexperienced guy they'll offer a long-term contract to a guy with a lot of experience.

But even that isn't a guarantee for success, as the Leafs and Raptors have shown us.

I still think they will meddle, as has been the rumour with TFC. Mind you, I can't blame them for telling Preki he can't move De Rosario. Preki would have been fired in June had we allowed him to do that.

[algieb]

TFC is operating under a failed model. Firing Mo and Preki does nothing to fix the issue.

TFC is operating under the old Leafs/Raptors model which was having a meddling non-sports executive in charge of the club. This was the Peddie/JFJ, Peddie/Babcock model, with TFC its Anselmi/Whoever.

The situation with Preki having to accept Daso as his assistant is an example of this. Coaches should have the ability to choose their own assistant coaches.

I'm not saying that Mo and Preki should not have been let go, I'm just saying they weren't the main problem here.
asuming that daso was not wanted by preki and he wanted his own people ,does that still justify the way the team played,team selections ,substitutions, this was all because preki did not have his own guys in place, he let these guys bully him into these decisions

[AL-MO]

Going forward I want to see the future GM/Coach to build a solid team that competes for the playoffs (and beyond) year in year out. I want to see quality players brought in to the squad. Not just from a certain league or area, or affiliated with a certain agent. We should be scouring the globe looking at lower level leagues, for bargains and other players who might want to come to North America.

A general plan on how he is going to do this communicated to fans might help too. Mo said he had a plan, but noone knew what it was (if there was one at all) and it looked like he flew by the seat of his pants most days. This frustrated a lot of us as noone seemed to know where this team was headed. Some days it seemed like we had a better plan for the year for our banners and displays than Mo did for the team on the field!

[Oldtimer]

Some days it seemed like we had a better plan for the year for our banners and displays than Mo did for the team on the field!

... and this is a good time to give props to our banner team. :scarf:

[Mark in Ottawa]

I just hope that MLSE understands that this is .... their last kick at the can
If they don't turn this team around with this reboot, it's as good as dead.
Sure we'll still be there, but I expect a mass exodus from the stadium if things
not not greatly improve. This team had the potential to change the city.
They went from being the hottest ticket in town, with the best atmosphere
and most importantly - potential to grow - and have slide back into the same
old Toronto Sports trap. This is their last chance to save the team.

I hope they don't fuck it up, but I'm not very confident.

One thing I know for sure - If Vancouver does better than us in their first season, we're cooked.
^^ +1
But how can Vancouver NOT do better than TFC in their first MLS season?
They have a stable organization and will have that first year adrenaline, both on field and off, to drive them on.

[Mark in Ottawa]

TFC is operating under a failed model.
Not quite. Their business model is to make $$.
And so far they have been pretty successsful at it.

[jloome]

I just want entertaining football every week, a chance to win each game and some heart.

Don't care if they actually win, just that they compete and they entertain. That's the whole point, right?

[Hitcho]

Well fuck me, this thread is depressing and sober reality after the heady highs of Tuesday!

For the rest of this season, I'd be happy with avoiding a meltdown. Beating KK in the home closer would be nice, break the hoo doo and go out on some kind of high. There's a remote chance we might make the play offs, that would be a massive achievement and an incredible success for Dasovic. I'm not expecting it though. I think we're pretty much cooked in CCL, but something for the fans to cheer in the final home games there would be good.

Next year - well, that's the million dollar question. It depends entirely on who MLSE bring in, in terms of GM/coach and new players. I don't think we're at square 1 or -1. We have a core of good players to build on that are sued to playing together. However, we do need to strip some dead wood from the fringes and replace them with better quality, as well as bring a much better balance to the squad (eg, WIDE PLAYERS). It's entirely feasible that we'll get a good GM/coach in place who ships some guys out, adds four or five good quality MLS squad players and brings in one more top name. Then we'd be well set to have a great season, especially in the second half and post season. Or, MLSE could make some fuckwit appointments and we end up no better off than we are now.

As Parkdale said, it quite literally is make or break time now. If they fuck up another new dawn and feed us another couple of seasons of shit, then fans will walk away in despondent apathy and never come back. That's especially true if the Shitecaps outstrip us next year. MLSE have taken the shiny new hope that was TFC and tainted it with their stigma of high prices and low success. They need to undo that, and fast, or the damage could be fatal.

[Auzzy]

As said before, I just don't know if there will be a real "reset" or "clean slate." I expect the new manager/director & the new coach will be asked to keep the current interim manager and most/all of the assistant coaches, as well as the current assistant GM. A number of players will also be untouchable, because of their contract status or their perceived value for marketing/business purposes. All this even if the new guys can find people who would be more successful in those positions. As a result, the new guys will have future excuses built-in from the start.

Plus I just don't trust they have the ability to find a truly competent management & coaching team, especially who would be willing to work in the above environment & given the club's history.

Note that I don't even believe the new guys should completely blow up the squad or fire all the assistants. Roster churn is a huge problem. There are a bunch of players on this team right now who are good enough for MLS, with the right coach & the right system, and with some turnover & a few gaping holes filled. I just want truly competent decision makers who are fully allowed to make those decisions.

My hopes:
- That Anselmi's comments about keeping & developing people aren't the end of the story. If they magically find some good strong guys, then the situation may change & they may be allowed to make the decisions they need to make. (As an example, after last season, Mo & above also said the squad was close & only need a bit of tinkering. In the end, they did allow quite a bit of turnover.) Even if the new guys decide to drop some of the perceived "core" players, I hope they will have the ability to do that, if they think it will help and they can get someone better.

- That the new guys & existing upper management please don't listen to players, or to fans (on this board or anywhere else) as to who should stay, who should go, and who should come.

- That MLS realizes it's not good for anyone if TFC keeps failing the way it is. Maybe there is someone in the league who has the ability to find a good manager/director, and a good coach, somewhere in the world. And that MLSE opens the pocketbook to actually get those guys.

- I don't even want making the playoffs next year to be the main focus. Sure they should make them next year finally, but I don't want compromises & short-term thinking to rule the season and screw the long-term. However, within two years definitely.

This golden goose is almost gone...

[spark]

I think there are expectations, but then there are realistic expectations.

My expectations are that Anselmi et al. are this moment compiling a list of potential "Director of Soccer" candidates. They are going over the organization with a fine tooth comb identifying everything that needs to be fixed NOW. By November/early December, after a series of several interviews (ten, for example) the new Director of Soccer should be named and is not someone with "MLS experience" or whatever bs catch phrase they will likely throw out - but someone with a proven track record of success at a high level, which means winning it all. Said Director of Soccer works through Christmas and puts the house in order and begins prepping for the 2011 season in early January.

Realistically though I think Anselmi et al. are focused 100% on ticket renewals and getting that in order is the priority. Once that is all sorted in the next few weeks, they will then focus 100% on the MLS Cup. Once that is done they will say time for a break. Then it will be January and they'll say, "Oh crap we gotta hire someone quick." and they'll find someone with relative experience and moderate success so we all sit here and go "hmmm I can't tell one way or the other if this is a good move or idiotic one - I guess I'll just have to wait and see". Then it will be February and time for preseason and they'll go "Oh shit! The head coach! Nick, you're on full time buddy!"

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i expect that people will be unhappy no matter what.

[menefreghista]

i expect that people will be unhappy no matter what.

Are you serious? I bet if this team had real success the forum would actually become a lot more boring. There would be very little to discuss.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i dont people complain about everything and anything re: this team.
That will continue especially as MLSE is never likely to sell up.

[menefreghista]

i dont people complain about everything and anything re: this team.
That will continue especially as MLSE is never likely to sell up.

Well that's only because this team give us a shitload to complain about.

[maninb]

IMO we're 3 good players away from having a very decent team....a LB, an attacking MF, and a top striker....dumping Mista, OBW, Garcia, Peterson, and Ibrahim should free up enough space to do this...all depends on how soon we get the GM/Coaching thing resolved...

[Pachuco]

IMO we're 3 good players away from having a very decent team....a LB, an attacking MF, and a top striker....dumping Mista, OBW, Garcia, Peterson, and Ibrahim should free up enough space to do this...all depends on how soon we get the GM/Coaching thing resolved...

I believe we need wingers as well. So for me we are at least 5 players from being a good team. We have no width on this team.

[canadian_bhoy]

This Season - Hope to see the players play with a little freedom. Go forward and entertain us with some fun football. We aren't expecting a winner this year anymore - let's at least see some passion and some fun entertainment.

Next Season - TFC brings in a quality manager with a true vision for the club. We have a team that is ready to take the field in time for the season to start (not this 4 games in crap). Let's have some stability - passion and forward attacking football. Even though it's a fresh start - I still think that playoffs should be a priority next season.

[Pookie]

Outside of the GM/Coach decision, I think a look at the expanded roster size and the disappearance of the Canadian Quota will be the biggest factors for us going into next year

I expect some tough questions to be asked such as:

- whether JDG is transfered, released or retained.

- whether a 1 year older DeRosario @ 33 has more value on the trade market or as a cornerstone of the franchise

- whether Attakora can be signed to longer term deal or does he offer more value (allocation money) on a transfer?

- same with Frei

- Mista? What kind of player is he and is he a fit?

- If JDG and/or Mista go, what is the DP market like?

[Cashcleaner]

I just hope that MLSE understands that this is .... their last kick at the can
If they don't turn this team around with this reboot, it's as good as dead.
Sure we'll still be there, but I expect a mass exodus from the stadium if things
not not greatly improve. This team had the potential to change the city.
They went from being the hottest ticket in town, with the best atmosphere
and most importantly - potential to grow - and have slide back into the same
old Toronto Sports trap. This is their last chance to save the team.

I hope they don't fuck it up, but I'm not very confident.

One thing I know for sure - If Vancouver does better than us in their first season, we're cooked.

QFT.

It will be VERY interesting to see how another Canadian expansion team makes it in their first year.

[denime]

My expectations? We're back to square one. Can't have high expectations when you suck and nothing points to things getting better.

What he said!

[denime]

This Season - Hope to see the players play with a little freedom. Go forward and entertain us with some fun football. We aren't expecting a winner this year anymore - let's at least see some passion and some fun entertainment.

Next Season - TFC brings in a quality manager with a true vision for the club. We have a team that is ready to take the field in time for the season to start (not this 4 games in crap). Let's have some stability - passion and forward attacking football. Even though it's a fresh start - I still think that playoffs should be a priority next season.


We have that already last night,it was very entertaining how we went forward and gave freedom to RSL to fill up our net at will.

Next year playoff should not be priority,new coach should get more than 9 months to build the winning team.
I want MLS Cup no playoffs and I have no problem if it takes another 2 years to make playoffs but once we make it, Cup must be ours.

[bgnewf]

The optimist in me is looking at TFC 2011 like Seattle 2009. TFC 2007 was a new start from an empty page. TFC 2011 will be a new start yes, but we do not have to completely clear the decks. There are some pieces here that can be leveraged by new management next season. Seattle was that way and they turned put pretty good.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

im guessing another 2 years before we make it into the playoffs

[rocker]

We're not worse than square one, as someone said. We have players better than Marco Reda and Adam Braz! :)

I actually think a turnaround won't take that much. The core is still fine, the academy is starting to produce some talent, and MLS is a parity league. Turning this around won't be as hard as starting an expansion team.

[sampace]

My expectations are pretty low for this team right now, not sure Dasovic will turn into the head coach next season. Not his fault, team does not have enough talent to compete on a daily basis. And I suspect the DeRo is also part of the problem. I say bring in Mitchell to straighten this team out.

[Hitcho]

We're not worse than square one, as someone said. We have players better than Marco Reda and Adam Braz! :)

I actually think a turnaround won't take that much. The core is still fine, the academy is starting to produce some talent, and MLS is a parity league. Turning this around won't be as hard as starting an expansion team.

This is what I tried to say, but spent 4 long paragraphs doing it... :D

[Yohan]

I just want a team that plays like they are proud to wear a jersey.

As for 'rebuilding', just how much room will the new GM will have, in terms of cap space and roster?

[Yohan]

I just want a team that plays like they are proud to wear a jersey.

As for 'rebuilding', just how much room will the new GM will have, in terms of cap space and roster?

[Brooker]

a refund

[DichioTFC]

a refund

rofl

A refund? From MLSE? You obviously don't know these guys too well ;)

[WHITEY]

The Vancouver Whitecaps WILL make the MLS Playoffs before we ever do, book it.

[DichioTFC]

Short-term expectations: Competitiveness. I want a team that I can be proud to say I support. Win 50:50 balls, dig deep late in games, play with fire, make it hard for opponents; I'll be content with my expectations.

Next season: Shed the expensive guys that are holding the cap space hostage and whose performance on the field is below average. I want an exciting team that plays aggressive and is always a scoring threat.

[DichioTFC]

The Vancouver Whitecaps WILL make the MLS Playoffs before we ever do, book it.

I wish I could disagree with you, but I can't.

[razor787]

I havent read through the whole topic, but incase it hasnt been pointed out, there is a lot of money that was tied up in players that we dont even have. Gerba was taking up a couple hundred thousand, RoBo I think I heard was still affecting our cap for some reason, and although Garcia was being paid half by the Quakes, his huge tab was coming at the expence of our cap.

Those 3, and I know there are others, but I cant think of who, all contributed to us not having enough money free to sign more quality players.

With the baggage leaving the team, and the cap hits going to players that we have at the moment, we have the potential to do a lot better. With more money available, we may actually be able to keep the players that we have now, and grow by signing some other talent.

Hell, we may end up with a decent roster, and some depth too...

[Wull]

I havent read through the whole topic, but incase it hasnt been pointed out, there is a lot of money that was tied up in players that we dont even have. Gerba was taking up a couple hundred thousand, RoBo I think I heard was still affecting our cap for some reason, and although Garcia was being paid half by the Quakes, his huge tab was coming at the expence of our cap.

Those 3, and I know there are others, but I cant think of who, all contributed to us not having enough money free to sign more quality players.

With the baggage leaving the team, and the cap hits going to players that we have at the moment, we have the potential to do a lot better. With more money available, we may actually be able to keep the players that we have now, and grow by signing some other talent.

Hell, we may end up with a decent roster, and some depth too...

Neither Robbo or Gerba wanted to be anywhere else. You can thank mo and preki for the cap situation

[Mikey]

I dont really expect to see any major changes

[Cashcleaner]

I don't really expect to see any major changes

Really? The way I look at it, dropping Mo and Preki WAS a major change so why would they stop there? MLSE knows we've always had a patchwork squad at TFC and that's why we're not getting into playoffs or advancing further in CONCACAF. I'm fully expecting significant roster changes before we hit the pitch next year.