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supersaint
09-07-2010, 06:56 PM
I am a total football fanatic. Love the game at so many levels, and I still believe in the potential of MLS. However, I am seriously considering giving up my four season tix next season, in section 106. I cannot stand to watch the way Preki has this team playing most of the time. I know the seats behind the goals will be ok. But I am concerned that there a lot of guys out there with relatively expensive season tickets that are reassessing next years renewal. We have a fair drive to BMO Field, from Newmarket. It just doesnt seem worth it just now, week in week out. The Reds are playing worse than they did a season ago, not better. Anyway, is anyone concerned that we may see a significant attendance drop next season, or are there no worries? Just wanted to throw this out there. Cheers.

CoachGT
09-07-2010, 07:16 PM
Lots of people have expressed similar concerns in the past, usually at year end. I suspect that most will either try to get less expensive seats or mght just keep theirs. Personally, I believe that every supporter has to experience the pain of watching a team work their way to the top in order to truly enjoy the pinnacle.

Attendance is likely to drop again next year. It may not have dropped according to the official attendance this year, but there are seats available right up to game day and the number of vacant seats seems to be on the rise. We're playing a tough form of football to watch and we're not exactly great at it - defensive football where your keeper has faced more shots than any other keeper in the league doesn't sound too successful to me. But I have hope for the future. Some day.

I live in Newmarket, too, but I'll be keeping my seats unless something big happens that changes my plans, something not related to football at all.

MG42
09-07-2010, 07:27 PM
It will be interesting to see what spin MLSE uses to try and keep ticket renewals up...IMO opinion there won't be a significant drop.

Mikey
09-07-2010, 07:28 PM
Undecided if I'm dumping half or all of mine.

I think the honeymoon was over at the end of last season. There's been several games this year when I couldn't GIVE AWAY tickets in 112. ML$E scare tactics about having a huge waiting list ready to snatch up your tickets if you give them up, is a load of shit.

I got these figures from a four four two article on the most expensive SSH tickets in the UK this season. I converted them to CAD$ and dropped TFC into the list.

Arsenal... $2,929.35
Spurs... $2,720.68
Chelsea... $1,942.20
Ipswich... $1,606.73
Newcastle...$1,564.99
Man Utd... $1,494.37
"TFC nil" $3,439.00

Part of the problem might also be that anyone who was new to the game first or second year, now knows that they are paying way over top dollar for mediocre football.

ML$E SILVER LINING: Look on the brightside....if you are renewing your SSH and TFC nil dont make the payoffs, your tickets will probably only go up by another 15%

tfcleeds
09-07-2010, 07:28 PM
It will be interesting to see what spin MLSE uses to try and keep ticket renewals up...IMO opinion there won't be a significant drop.

Maybe Mo will be gone?

bgnewf
09-07-2010, 07:28 PM
The Prawn seats (122, 123,124, the boxes and those sideline stool dealies) are going to be a hard sell. Many of those fans will definitely be looking to downgrade. The South end and 127 will definitely still be chock o block in 2011.

ArmenJBX
09-07-2010, 07:38 PM
If you're dropping, I'll buy um.

razor787
09-07-2010, 07:47 PM
same. Anyone selling their season ticket rights, I will buy if they are in 111-113 :P

Dave67
09-07-2010, 07:53 PM
same. Anyone selling their season ticket rights, I will buy if they are in 111-113 :P

there's the rub. you and probably the few thousand really on the waiting list are all looking for the same thing. inexpensive tickets.

TFCtoMUFC
09-07-2010, 08:00 PM
107,108,109 might get empty....

Red CB Toronto
09-07-2010, 08:01 PM
What I found interesting when I went to the relocation event last year was the amount of tickets available in 127, there were about 30 including one group of nine in a row, was not sure what to think of this, but it might have meant something.

ArmenJBX
09-07-2010, 08:02 PM
I'd take 111-119. :D

razor787
09-07-2010, 08:08 PM
there's the rub. you and probably the few thousand really on the waiting list are all looking for the same thing. inexpensive tickets.

I dont care about the price. I would still want that section even if those were the expencive seats. I want those sections specifically to be with supporters, not because I want the cheapest price possible.

Joe Kool
09-07-2010, 08:09 PM
What I found interesting when I went to the relocation event last year was the amount of tickets available in 127, there were about 30 including one group of nine in a row, was not sure what to think of this, but it might have meant something.

From what I heard from the TFC guy I was talking to at the relocation event was that a group had that big block of tickets in 127 from the start of the first season and dropped them last year. I don't think there will be a big block like that again unless the same thing happens with another group but it is entirely possible with the economy and the price hikes.

ensco
09-07-2010, 08:09 PM
About half the seats cost $60-85 (or more). This is not going to work for much longer.

The number of corporate buyers for those seats has really declined over the last two years.

For the non-corporate buyer, the value prop isn't there. That's similar to the cost of good upper deck Leafs or Raptors seats.

For that money at ACC, you get to watch players from a not bad seat, in the top flight league in their sport, with the average player earning in the millions. That's very different than MLS, and the $100K average player you see at BMO.

redcard
09-07-2010, 08:31 PM
i think the key indicator will be whether or not mlse hikes the rates...the one thing mlse has going for them is that we are hosting the cup final...and i recall the FO saying the the cup final tickets will be part of the renewal package...so you renew you secure your cup tickets...

Suds
09-07-2010, 08:44 PM
i think the key indicator will be whether or not mlse hikes the rates...the one thing mlse has going for them is that we are hosting the cup final...and i recall the FO saying the the cup final tickets will be part of the renewal package...so you renew you secure your cup tickets...


MLSE will use every tactic possible to get people to renew so this would not be a surprise. A raise in ticket prices will surely cause a large drop in SSH's. However MLSE is spin this to say, "we've heard you fans out there and we are holding prices this year because we care for you oh so much.

Bullshit! I think with the thousands of empty seats at BMO every game this year they clearly know the honeymoon is over.

MFG1
09-07-2010, 08:47 PM
Having to pay for your tickets long before they decide what to do with Mo and Preki and a long torturous winter of doing nothing is where the buck stops for me. I will not endure a fifth year of this shit especially with a "modest " price increase. If they turned a profit after the first year when my two tickets were 480 bucks and now they are going to be 800+ it doesnt make sense when the product is still boring and for the most times unwatchable.
Take the final game and shove it , thats extortion, to hook you into buying them. no different than marlies tickets.
Does anyone know if the rest of our home games for CCL are paid for? all I got last month was a bill for 126$

Heart of Stone
09-07-2010, 09:07 PM
Is it possible to dismantle the new north stand and bring the beer garden back to its former glory?

Bars92
09-07-2010, 09:12 PM
The north stand should be sold for $20 a seat.

Heart of Stone
09-07-2010, 09:19 PM
The north stand should be sold for $20 a seat.

Knowing MLSE they probably will sell the plastic seats as memorabilia after dismantling the stand...

Zeke_Jones
09-07-2010, 09:27 PM
SO every year they will increase 15% regardless of how the team does? So in 10 years my 112 seat will cost me how much exactly???

@##*smokers!!!!

Pachuco
09-07-2010, 09:30 PM
same. Anyone selling their season ticket rights, I will buy if they are in 111-113 :P

As far as I know you can't transfer seats anymore. If you think 111-113 is going to be empty you are nuts. Alot of people downgrading are going to look a those sections.

MFG1
09-07-2010, 09:42 PM
I got two top row against the rail 110 closer to 111. start your bids

Roogsy
09-07-2010, 09:46 PM
If TFC raises ticket prices, I am seriously considering dropping my expensive seats and just keeping my cheap seats.

Pookie
09-07-2010, 09:54 PM
About half the seats cost $60-85 (or more). This is not going to work for much longer.

The number of corporate buyers for those seats has really declined over the last two years.

For the non-corporate buyer, the value prop isn't there. That's similar to the cost of good upper deck Leafs or Raptors seats.

For that money at ACC, you get to watch players from a not bad seat, in the top flight league in their sport, with the average player earning in the millions. That's very different than MLS, and the $100K average player you see at BMO.

You are completely correct IMO.

I noted in another thread about the gentleman on the Fan today that talked about the reasons people attend sports. His research showed it had very little to do with winning and more to do with your "experience" at the game. Essentially, if it was fun, you'd shell out the money.

The point that the guy made (forgot his name and credentials) was that Atmosphere is what sells people on going to games. If you've got $50 in your pocket and are looking at your options, you don't necessarily factor in whether TFC stands a chance to win the game before you buy. You simply decide whether the overall experience is worth your $50. If it isn't, you'll spend your $50 somewhere else.

It's why a Cubs ticket is something special. The team has sucked for over 100 years and the stadium sucks worse. Going to a Cubs' game isn't fun because the Cubs are winners.. far from it. It's fun because of the history, the quirky building, the fans that are in to it, the "Cubby Bear" bar across the street (amongst others) that are full pre and post game.

It's why folks go to Buffalo Bills football games. The Argos stand a better chance of winning (in a league where 6 teams make the playoffs) and the CFL has more excitement to it. But tailgating at an Argos game just isn't the same. 'Nuff said.

TFC missed the boat on their ticket model by trying to build something that duplicated the ACC success (who thought "Club Fees" were a good idea?). Sell the same seat to a corporation and you could charge more. Create "elite" sections and even Field Tables for pete's sake.

IMO, if they want to turn this around they should adopt the Section 110 model throughout the stadium. Make rows 20 through 33 of the 100's Supporter's Sections. Allow people to stand, bring their flags, organize chants and do what have made going to a TFC game so famous.

Rows 1-19 could be done a little nicer. Perhaps some more comfy seating in certain areas. Perhaps you charge a little more for being close to the centre line if you must but let's not get stupid about it.

This would create the "fun" that drives attendance. Quite honestly, attendance at TFC has very little to do with winning and the "product" questions only matter because of the price. Adopt a fair pricing model and cater to "atmosphere" and I think they'll be full with or without the trophies

FluSH
09-07-2010, 09:55 PM
If you are not making the playoffs... Give me a motherfucking roof... over the South End and we can call it even!

Toronto_Bhoy
09-07-2010, 10:05 PM
I'm dropping a pair, I already have a buyer so "we" have four together. Having said that, I know 4 STH's in my immediate area who have told me they will not be back next season...regardless.

For me personally, the value just isn't there.

Suds
09-07-2010, 10:07 PM
If TFC raises ticket prices, I am seriously considering dropping my expensive seats and just keeping my cheap seats.

And one has to add the total cost of being a fan and spending money on any team they support.

Seats in the south end are still pretty cheap compared to the rest of BMO. But once you add the cost of attending games (travel, food, beer), merchandise, and for some of us supporting other ventures to bring atmosphere to BMO the costs can really add up. Now, try that when the starting point for a single seat is approx $1,000.


The one thing that is really taking the shine of things for me is how corporate EVERYTHING is becoming. I know the old beer garden has been a bone of contention for some but to use it as an example - In the first few years people who liked the idea of being in a casual environment, not caring about their seat number gathered there to watch the game. Then came the tables in front of the beer garden and all of a sudden the barriers started to get pushed further back every week. Then the North stand - great to open up to the general public, but what sucks is now they have the beer garden all sectioned off for corporate crap and permanent barriers even pushed further back. So, gone is the organic atmosphere the fans created and in it's place is a stale corporate space that is just used to hock merchandise. A little piece of unique BMO gone forever.


The first year things were so organic with the fans & supporters really building something with the support of MLSE behind them. I think someone referred to people willing to pay for 'the experience' in another thread. I feel more and more like TFC trying to force the atmosphere instead of working with the fans to create one. This more than anything is what is making me re-evaluate my decision to renew or not.

If it's not fun then it's not worth it regardless of the cost, playoffs, etc.

rocker
09-07-2010, 10:17 PM
I can't see myself giving up my seats in 125. They cost me almost $2000 a year for 2.
But honestly, I spent more than that on a 7 day vacation last year... so I look at it like I'm paying $2000 for an 18 day vacation watching football :)

If things ever get too much, I'll just split the tickets with the men in my family. Right now I pay for the 2 seats myself and "treat" my dad and my brother. But at some point I might have to ask them to pay up. haha.

But I'll always be there...........

Whoop
09-07-2010, 10:18 PM
And one has to add the total cost of being a fan and spending money on any team they support.

Seats in the south end are still pretty cheap compared to the rest of BMO. But once you add the cost of attending games (travel, food, beer), merchandise, and for some of us supporting other ventures to bring atmosphere to BMO the costs can really add up. Now, try that when the starting point for a single seat is approx $1,000.


The one thing that is really taking the shine of things for me is how corporate EVERYTHING is becoming. I know the old beer garden has been a bone of contention for some but to use it as an example - In the first few years people who liked the idea of being in a casual environment, not caring about their seat number gathered there to watch the game. Then came the tables in front of the beer garden and all of a sudden the barriers started to get pushed further back every week. Then the North stand - great to open up to the general public, but what sucks is now they have the beer garden all sectioned off for corporate crap and permanent barriers even pushed further back. So, gone is the organic atmosphere the fans created and in it's place is a stale corporate space that is just used to hock merchandise. A little piece of unique BMO gone forever.


The first year things were so organic with the fans & supporters really building something with the support of MLSE behind them. I think someone referred to people willing to pay for 'the experience' in another thread. I feel more and more like TFC trying to force the atmosphere instead of working with the fans to create one. This more than anything is what is making me re-evaluate my decision to renew or not.

If it's not fun then it's not worth it regardless of the cost, playoffs, etc.

Bang on.

And is that a surprise?

boozilla
09-07-2010, 10:35 PM
As long as there is a waiting list for seasons tickets, prices will rise.
That bubble hasn't burst yet. Personally, I relocated to 117 from 224 and am now paying a third for seats I much prefer.

Carts
09-07-2010, 10:36 PM
Since I have to buy the MLS Cup ticket to keep my seasons, who wants to buy my MLS Cup tickets...???

Carts...

backbeat
09-07-2010, 10:37 PM
i will always be there - keep coming back - this is the only gig in town and i really want them to succeed. we will eventually have a team to be proud of and I WILL be there and i WILL pass them on so that a hundred years and more from now my grand kids and their grand kids talk of the history with passion - we're all starting something grand i belive - as frustrating as it is now...... :scarf: :drum: :flare:

Joe Kool
09-07-2010, 10:44 PM
I used to go in on Leafs season tickets at the Gardens but then couldn't afford the increase after they went to the ACC. It was great fun while it lasted going to so many Leaf games but the steady price increases caught up with me so I had to give them up. I figure it will be the same with TFC unfortunately because I truly believe these tickets will eventually be out of my price range and I won't have any cheaper ones to relocate to. I will end up watching TFC games on TV while occasionally making it to a game every other year just like I do with the Leafs now. Too bad. Have fun while it lasts I keep telling myself.

Suds
09-07-2010, 10:48 PM
Bang on.

And is that a surprise?

Yes and no. I have no problem with TFC making money or me paying for a good experience. I fully understand they need to do marketing to add to the bottom line. For me it's just getting to be overkill.

I always knew the quality of the on-filed product would take time. I love the game and love to watch it at all levels of play. But TFC / BMO always delivered a great game day experience and it was always worth the expense. Some how it seems to be lacking a bit. Not even sure I can properly explain it. It's just a feeling.

DangerRed
09-07-2010, 11:03 PM
I'm gone next season -- and I never even got there. I went in for a ransom pack this season in 226 and regretted it ever since. The best experiences I've had at BMO have been from buying one-offs from Ticketmaster, from people on here or (oh noes!) from "elsewhere." With seats available right up to match day, why would I prepay and also have to take Marlies tickets as well? Economically, it makes no sense for fans. NONE. The motivation of being on the gold list is clearly a crock of shit, given that TICKETS ARE AVAILABLE RIGHT UP TO GAME DAY.

The prices which the club wants to charge are completely ludicrous for the quality of football on the pitch. We're paying more than EPL or La Liga prices for third-division football. Seriously. It's not even between leagues. I was watching the FC Dallas game and the announcers were offering $14 tickets, a free beer and free parking. And I'm guessing those $14 tickets are not horrible seats at all.

For me, it's just not worth it. I'll come back to BMO, but it will be for the odd game, not like last season and this season (have been to every home match + Voyageurs Cup + CCL).

TFC is a mispriced product and until the guy selling it realizes this, there's no point in lining his pockets just because.

Darlofletch
09-07-2010, 11:14 PM
Should be interesting to see what they do with the pricing, and how many games they include, two extra league games will have to be in there, do they drop the v-cup games? MLS cup final, do they drop the friendly?

I think they'll include enough so that they can keep the prices high, but offer it as a reduction in per game cost.

I'd suggest, whatever the new buyer price was last year, take that and add a small amount and that'll be the renewal price, it's just a question of what we'll get for it.

will I be back next year, absolutely, but I think there's a lot of people who won't be.

backbeat
09-07-2010, 11:20 PM
geez i'm beginning to think all the Columbus nay-sayers were right when in our 1st and 2nd year they said wait until TFC has been in the league 4 or 5 years and see how loud they talk about full stadiums!!

sounds like we're ready to drop like flys...i NEVER expected we'd be EPL quality at this point but i was realistic to assume we'd be paying a bit of a price to get this league off the ground

damn i went way back when we were at Varsity stadium and saw it burn up when they left for CNE

i was hoping that this version might last but again the expectation may be a bit high

critical is fine and good at times but keep it realistic if you want a league to stick around....i sure do....

Roogsy
09-07-2010, 11:26 PM
It doesn't help that the team's pricing is now becoming offensive. I went to Camp Nou this summer and paid 5 Euro for a beer. My top price tickets to a Liga Cup game cost me $100 each and I got to watch the best football in the world. TFC is now pricier than many EPL tickets, concessions cost a small fortune and we are watching subpar football. We have all been putting up with it now for 4 seasons but if they throw another price hike our way, wouldn't you expect people to drop like flies? There is a threshold you know. Columbus can't fill seats even though they have a winning team and their tickets are substantially cheaper. That is an embarrassment. We're priced like a cup-winning team without putting a cup-winner on the pitch.

DangerRed
09-07-2010, 11:32 PM
critical is fine and good at times but keep it realistic if you want a league to stick around....i sure do....

This team has had a realistic amount of players, coaches and time to improve from weakling to contender. It hasn't. In fact, we're on a trajectory to finish considerably worse than last season.

Imagine you walked into a fast-food joint and got a burger/fries/drink combo for $5. The next time you're there, they tell you you can get the same deal for $5.50. The next time, it's $6, but the drink can only be water. And when you show up the fourth time, they want $6.75 for a burger with a hair on it, some cold fries and no drink at all. That sound realistic to you?

I want to keep the league around. I love it dearly and I'm attached to the club in a way I didn't feel possible with pro sports. After the RSL game at the Foggy Dew, I shouted a hello to Gargan as he cycled by (he waved back) and introduced myself to Ty Harden when he walked in for a bite with his girlfriend. It was great. I wear the scarf, even on my couch when I'm watching a game. I drink water at home from a TFC mug. I have a variety of qualified and unqualified opinions about every aspect of the league, the club, the players and the management.

I will never stop supporting this team. But it's high time I stopped overpaying for club tickets.

That's realistic.

flatpicker
09-07-2010, 11:40 PM
If you are not making the playoffs... Give me a motherfucking roof... over the South End and we can call it even!

Agreed.

A roof would get me through one more year of misery.

TFC Via Buffalo
09-07-2010, 11:41 PM
I feel, sometimes, like I've been kicked in the stomach, face and balls by this team, but let me give you guys a little story.

I've been a New Orleans Saints fan for now my 21st year. One of the biggest joke franchises in pro sports for pretty much since it's inception. I've been mocked, looked at funny and flat out called an idiot for being a fan of the 'Aints. Then, just last year, everything came together. Chips fell right and we won the Super Bowl. I honestly cried. It's easily the top moment in my sporting life as a player or a fan. The weight of 20 years of frustration and hanging in there no matter how bad it looked, was all lifted. I'm sure many of us here may have similar stories. Hell, long time Hull supporters must have almost died when they got promoted. My point is, sometimes the anguish and the pain will make that moment of greatness that much sweeter.

Now, I'm not saying we should just sit around aimlessly and wait for things to become better in 20-100 years. That would be silly and play exactly into what MLSE hopes happens, that we become complacent sheep who are a sound track so they don't have to have a DJ running a mix board during the game for their to be noise. However, bailing now will just make that moment when we "get it" that much less sweeter.

I have felt horrible about this season. Despite the CCL, the MLS season looks lost.The milage (kilometerage?) I've logged this year is almost to the point of retarded. The gas money, the toll money for the border, the time off from work sacrificed. I'm missing the last three MLS home games and last two tailgates and I'm honestly upset about it. However, I'll still be at the top of 110 for the last two CCL games, chanting right along with everyone, and you're damn sure I'll be there next year, killing myself to make every game, destroying my throat to make BMO that much louder, and cooking burgers at the tailgate while bring up my bootleg pop and chicken wings to my savage Canadian friends. :canada:

Toronto till I die, and I mean it. Stay with it folks. It will only get better, and then it will get awesome. See y'all on the 28th. :scarf:

PS: Sorry for the rant. It's late and I can't sleep.

razor787
09-08-2010, 12:49 AM
As far as I know you can't transfer seats anymore. If you think 111-113 is going to be empty you are nuts. Alot of people downgrading are going to look a those sections.

I never suggested that 111-113 would be empty, thats why I was hoping to buy the rights to someones seats. I dont want to be buying season tickets, when I have no hope in getting into the section I want, until 2-3 years later.

I know its the way things are done, but I dont like it. I may just buy a pair or a single, and sell the majority on ebay (at cost, fuck scalping) until I get atleast close to 112

Keyman
09-08-2010, 12:53 AM
Undecided if I'm dumping half or all of mine.

I think the honeymoon was over at the end of last season. There's been several games this year when I couldn't GIVE AWAY tickets in 112. ML$E scare tactics about having a huge waiting list ready to snatch up your tickets if you give them up, is a load of shit.

I got these figures from a four four two article on the most expensive SSH tickets in the UK this season. I converted them to CAD$ and dropped TFC into the list.

Arsenal... $2,929.35
Spurs... $2,720.68
Chelsea... $1,942.20
Ipswich... $1,606.73
Newcastle...$1,564.99
Man Utd... $1,494.37
"TFC nil" $3,439.00

Part of the problem might also be that anyone who was new to the game first or second year, now knows that they are paying way over top dollar for mediocre football.

ML$E SILVER LINING: Look on the brightside....if you are renewing your SSH and TFC nil dont make the payoffs, your tickets will probably only go up by another 15%

Interesting statistics. However one would think that clubs such as United, Spurs, Chelsea, etc., rely less on tickets sold for revenue than TFC. Therefore they can afford to keep prices lower.

ecantona7
09-08-2010, 01:25 AM
Interesting statistics. However one would think that clubs such as United, Spurs, Chelsea, etc., rely less on tickets sold for revenue than TFC. Therefore they can afford to keep prices lower.

Prices have been steadily increasing ever year at United since those cunts took over United. This year was the first year a prize freeze was announced, and that IMO was due to the G & G campaign.

GBV
09-08-2010, 05:31 AM
As long as there is a waiting list for seasons tickets, prices will rise.
That bubble hasn't burst yet. Personally, I relocated to 117 from 224 and am now paying a third for seats I much prefer.

i don't buy their "waiting list" numbers in the slightest.
and in terms of actual people who would actually go ahead and buy the tickets -- even less so.

ensco
09-08-2010, 05:45 AM
^The waiting list story is MLSE's very own Easter Bunny and Santa Clause. The story they tell to children that makes everybody smile.

menefreghista
09-08-2010, 06:23 AM
I totally understand where the OP is coming from. In season one I paid $200 each for a pair of tickets. With the addition of more games that will most likely double for next year. And while I can still afford the new prices, I'm not sure I want to be spending this much of my income on a sporting event (especially when you consider the full amount spent on game days).


Interesting statistics. However one would think that clubs such as United, Spurs, Chelsea, etc., rely less on tickets sold for revenue than TFC. Therefore they can afford to keep prices lower.

This is not true, all teams all over the world charge as much as they can. Its based on supply and demand and not on some favour to their fans because they make revenue elsewhere.

nascarguy
09-08-2010, 06:25 AM
they need to make the payment plan 4 to 5 payments so it makes it easyer for people to keep the keep there seats . For me TFC is fighting with 2 hamilton team for my money next season 1 csl and 1 cfl team.

Yeoman
09-08-2010, 06:37 AM
like i've said before
fans at derby county are blown away at the costs i pay for a season ticket
sound end seasons, get you some of the best seats at pride park.
and they need to pay as you go like arsenal does. just makes sense
if i can not get a cheap seat, i simply can not afford to get a season.
odds are, i won't be renewing either.

menefreghista
09-08-2010, 06:42 AM
If you can't get a cheap season ticket, there really is no reason to get expensive ones (unless you prefer sitting in those sections of course). The secondary market is always flooded with decent seats for every match this season. The only time it would have been difficult was the NYRB game for obvious reasons.

TorCanSoc
09-08-2010, 07:01 AM
I've got a single cheap one. And own half of three prawn seats with a colleague. I'm 100% dropping my prawn seats.

I think my buddy is keeping them. Years past I sold my prawn seats to friends for a nice night of football. This year I gave tickets away to family. At about $200/set of tickets, and about 6 games it makes for an easy decision next year.

I think this may get repeated by other prawn holders like me that had to buy expensive from year 1. Year over year some of us are slowly downgrading.

Suds
09-08-2010, 07:29 AM
I've got a single cheap one. And own half of three prawn seats with a colleague. I'm 100% dropping my prawn seats.

I think my buddy is keeping them. Years past I sold my prawn seats to friends for a nice night of football. This year I gave tickets away to family. At about $200/set of tickets, and about 6 games it makes for an easy decision next year.

I think this may get repeated by other prawn holders like me that had to buy expensive from year 1. Year over year some of us are slowly downgrading.

I think this might be a common theme. I own extra seats I share with another SSH. We bought the extra with the idea of bringing friends and family out to games to turn them on to TFC and the game. First couple years my phone rang every game week with people looking for tickets. This year we literally have gone multiple games without anyone taking the extra tix - FOR FREE! Yes, it is the casual that has dropped off for sure.

We have pretty much decided to drop our extra tix and just buy our own single. The main reason is there are a over a thousand tickets floating around right up to game day and it's easy to get extra tickets. Coupled with the number of people I know that are SSH's and can't make all games there is just no reason to keep the extra anymore.

MKR
09-08-2010, 07:35 AM
i have been on the waiting list since year 1 and fortunately now i don't see the benefit of buying season tickets.

Oldtimer
09-08-2010, 07:36 AM
I'm starting to reconsider my season tickets, and I expected to hang on to them for life.

I think this franchise can easily go they way of New York if they are not careful.

Their team was well-attended at first. Years of futility, FO mismanagement, and slowly killing the atmosphere did in their attendance. The people who left never came back. Now, even though their new owners Red Bull have spent an obscene amount of money (because the team is an advertising write-off) on a stadium and star players, they still can't fill the place. MLSE could never spend the amount Red Bull has because TFC needs to be profitable. If they lose hard-core fans like me, they will never be able to recover.

Even freezing ticket prices may not be enough. They need to lower the cost on the new stands to match the south end, and lower the prawnies a bit. They over-did it with the pricing, assuming that Mo could build a winner and interest would continue.

I personally notice a big change in who is attending. The atmosphere is dying. I expect a big turnover this year. Those people will never come back.

maninb
09-08-2010, 07:42 AM
As long as they fire Mo before renewal time will have a big effect on wether i renew or not....as well as any price increase to 108...

MKR
09-08-2010, 07:59 AM
I'm starting to reconsider my season tickets, and I expected to hang on to them for life.

I think this franchise can easily go they way of New York if they are not careful.

Their team was well-attended at first. Years of futility, FO mismanagement, and slowly killing the atmosphere did in their attendance. The people who left never came back. Now, even though their new owners Red Bull have spent an obscene amount of money (because the team is an advertising write-off) on a stadium and star players, they still can't fill the place. MLSE could never spend the amount Red Bull has because TFC needs to be profitable. If they lose hard-core fans like me, they will never be able to recover.

Even freezing ticket prices may not be enough. They need to lower the cost on the new stands to match the south end, and lower the prawnies a bit. They over-did it with the pricing, assuming that Mo could build a winner and interest would continue.

I personally notice a big change in who is attending. The atmosphere is dying. I expect a big turnover this year. Those people will never come back.

the Mo Johnston effect.

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 07:59 AM
This thread is worrying reading, and I say that as a fan, so the likes of PB should be seriously concerned.

Here's how I see it going - there will be a reduction in renewals and attendance for next season with the main thrust of it being the more expensive seats, especially with the relocation event. MLSE will want to cover for this, so they will balance the pricing model so that their revenues stay even and do not fall in real terms. To do this, the cost of all the unsold prawnie seats has to be factored into the cheaper seats. I'd also expect them to increase the V-Cup and friendly ticket prices so they can point to league game prices and say "look, not much increase there AND there's two extra games this year". Basically, another con in the form of a cash grab.

The sad thing is, they will pretty quickly drive away south end fans too. Season 1 the tickets were around 200. They are now double that. Every time there's a price hike it's harder for me to justify the annual outlay and my wife points to other things the money could be spent on. Eventually, MLSE will price me out of being able to defend the cost each year. :(

Cashcleaner
09-08-2010, 08:02 AM
I'm expecting a bit of a turnover of fans in 2011, regardless of whether or not TFC makes it into the playoffs this season. MLSE will jack up the prices yet again, will make various insubstantial platitudes about "Confidently building a winning team with confidence and winningness." or some such bullshit like that. My guess is that some people are just going to stop putting up with it regardless of how well positioned we could be at the end of 2010.

TFC is playing a dangerous game here. Yes, the sport is growing in popularity and there will always be some demand for tickets, but soccer fans won't just watch anything that's offered to them. The club can't afford to piss off the fans that have been with them since Day 1 and the best way to placate us would be to start taking things seriously on the pitch and showing us that TFC means more to the owners than just another revenue stream.

rviewmirror
09-08-2010, 08:07 AM
^The waiting list story is MLSE's very own Easter Bunny and Santa Clause. The story they tell to children that makes everybody smile.

LOL. I have seasons but also have my name on the waiting list 2 times as I signed up with different email accounts back in the day (aka year 1). I think my dad and 2 brothers are in the waiting list as well but will more than likely never buy season tickets.

koryo
09-08-2010, 08:08 AM
This thread is worrying reading, and I say that as a fan, so the likes of PB should be seriously concerned.

Here's how I see it going - there will be a reduction in renewals and attendance for next season with the main thrust of it being the more expensive seats, especially with the relocation event. MLSE will want to cover for this, so they will balance the pricing model so that their revenues stay even and do not fall in real terms. To do this, the cost of all the unsold prawnie seats has to be factored into the cheaper seats. I'd also expect them to increase the V-Cup and friendly ticket prices so they can point to league game prices and say "look, not much increase there AND there's two extra games this year". Basically, another con in the form of a cash grab.

The sad thing is, they will pretty quickly drive away south end fans too. Season 1 the tickets were around 200. They are now double that. Every time there's a price hike it's harder for me to justify the annual outlay and my wife points to other things the money could be spent on. Eventually, MLSE will price me out of being able to defend the cost each year. :(

This one.

Paul Beirne, I do hope you're paying attention. MLSE has enjoyed its success on the backs of the supporters whose efforts have made this mediocre team worth watching. People come for the atmosphere, not the football.

We're coming to the close of year four now and you're no closer to winning than I am to not pissing people off on these boards.

Be careful. Don't count on loyalty from the people to whom you have showed none.

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 08:28 AM
This is not true, all teams all over the world charge as much as they can. Its based on supply and demand and not on some favour to their fans because they make revenue elsewhere.

This...

menefreghista
09-08-2010, 08:29 AM
Even freezing ticket prices may not be enough. They need to lower the cost on the new stands to match the south end, and lower the prawnies a bit. They over-did it with the pricing, assuming that Mo could build a winner and interest would continue.

I agree that this is what they need to do. But I wonder if they will with the rumours of 2 additional home MLS games being added and with the MLS Cup ticket.

Its funny when you think about it, if they had not kept the inept Mo Johnston in charge so long we probably aren't even having this conversation.

Oldtimer
09-08-2010, 08:39 AM
Its funny when you think about it, if they had not kept the inept Mo Johnston in charge so long we probably aren't even having this conversation.

I think its 50/50.

50% "inept" Mo Johnston
50% ticket prices getting too high

I could justify $400 for 2 tickets to my wife (who, though wonderful in many ways, is not a fan of any sport), especially since I could sell the games I couldn't make.

Now, with the higher prices, and finding it hard to offload my tickets, it's getting harder and harder to justify it.

With a badly mismanaged TFC its more difficult for me to even want to try justifying the purchase.

MKR
09-08-2010, 08:40 AM
This one.

Paul Beirne, I do hope you're paying attention. MLSE has enjoyed its success on the backs of the supporters whose efforts have made this mediocre team worth watching. People come for the atmosphere, not the football.


I dunno. I personally come for the football. and it's why i only go to a handful of games a year. The atmosphere is OK, but in all honesty it's not that great outside of the south stands. In any event, the atmosphere as you say should definitely not be the selling factor if this team is to really develop any kind of long lasting history.

Cashcleaner
09-08-2010, 08:43 AM
I think its 50/50.

50% "inept" Mo Johnston
50% ticket prices getting too high

I could justify $400 for 2 tickets to my wife (who, though wonderful in many ways, is not a fan of any sport), especially since I could sell the games I couldn't make.

Now, with the higher prices, and finding it hard to offload my tickets, it's getting harder and harder to justify it.

With a badly mismanaged TFC its more difficult for me to even want to try justifying the purchase. GOL TV is a minor cost compared to season tickets.

Agreed 100% with you on this. It's one thing to charge high prices when you've got a winning team and a club that's dedicated to maintaining a competitive edge, and quite another when are still struggling four years into the game.

MLSE has to understand that the sort of prices we're paying is far and away more than we should - given the quality we're seeing on the pitch.

JonO
09-08-2010, 08:43 AM
This is not true, all teams all over the world charge as much as they can. Its based on supply and demand and not on some favour to their fans because they make revenue elsewhere.
Yes and no. The gate revenue for MLS is a greater percentage of profits than all of the big leagues, so it is a more important price point to consider. Personally, I have always suggested a more valid comparison is with other MLS teams - and we are still too expensive based on that comparison.

ManUtd4ever
09-08-2010, 08:47 AM
In comparison to other MLS clubs, MLSE has had absolutely no justification to increase TFC ticket prices, let alone for an abysmal product on the pitch. The correct pricing model was implemented in year one in the $20-$50 range. The current pricing structure is far too excessive and has already had a noticeable impact on attendance figures this season. I seriously hope the front office is aware of the consequences of trying to gouge the TFC faithful any further. Loyalty has its limits after all.

Even the Leafs felt an impact last season as they couldn't sell out their private boxes for the first time since the ACC opened. It is absolutely apalling that the average ticket prices for NHL, NBA, and MLS matches in Toronto are among the most expensive in their respective leagues.

If MLSE suits think that fans of TFC, the Raptors, and even the Leafs will continue to sell out their venues for a mediocre product they are in for a rude awakening in the near future...

JonO
09-08-2010, 08:49 AM
Now, with the higher prices, and finding it hard to offload my tickets, it's getting harder and harder to justify it.

With a badly mismanaged TFC its more difficult for me to even want to try justifying the purchase.
You should try that with red seats. It has become very difficult to get anything for the games I can't make. I love my seats, but I am seriously tempted to downgrade this year.

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 08:51 AM
I have dark greys and most games I am giving them away to family and friends.

GIVING away $60 seats. That is disgusting.

Pachuco
09-08-2010, 08:56 AM
I have dark greys and most games I am giving them away to family and friends.

GIVING away $60 seats. That is disgusting.

I'm in the same boat, except sometimes I can't even give them away, and it's not often that I can't go to the game so it's literally every time I can't go I can't give my seats away.

How about those Bolton $120 seats? THAT I call disgusting.

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 08:58 AM
I didn't even bother giving away the Bolton tickets. NOBODY wanted them and I had had enough so I said they were going to go unused.

If TFC raises prices even a penny next year, those dark greys may just go right back into their bank of seats available.

nascarguy
09-08-2010, 08:58 AM
TFC payment plan is not good It's needs to be better like how the tiger cat's do. There payment plan is better you can pay all at once or make 8 payments and there ticket price is the same as TFC.

BS1327
09-08-2010, 09:00 AM
I just have partials this season, and wouldn't mind season seats in 111-113...
But if I can't, I'll stick with my partials :p

fiji_blue
09-08-2010, 09:07 AM
I have dark greys and most games I am giving them away to family and friends.

GIVING away $60 seats. That is disgusting.

Section 125 had a hard time giving my tickets away.

reggie
09-08-2010, 09:11 AM
ive got 6...im keeping 2 and i never spent a penny in bmo.
i love my tfc and they are the only toronto team i will spend a penny on.
saying that..im so pissed with the mlse moto for all their teams of just making the playoffs,how about trying to win a championship..

Dave67
09-08-2010, 09:31 AM
I expect the full spin to be put on a possible final including possibly Beckham and possibly Henry. Renew your tickets as your only way to secure the cup final ticket. I expect sleazy desperate tactics to try and hook the people with more expensive seats in for one more year.

mastermixer
09-08-2010, 09:33 AM
I'm expecting a bit of a turnover of fans in 2011, regardless of whether or not TFC makes it into the playoffs this season. MLSE will jack up the prices yet again, will make various insubstantial platitudes about "Confidently building a winning team with confidence and winningness." or some such bullshit like that. My guess is that some people are just going to stop putting up with it regardless of how well positioned we could be at the end of 2010.

TFC is playing a dangerous game here. Yes, the sport is growing in popularity and there will always be some demand for tickets, but soccer fans won't just watch anything that's offered to them. The club can't afford to piss off the fans that have been with them since Day 1 and the best way to placate us would be to start taking things seriously on the pitch and showing us that TFC means more to the owners than just another revenue stream.

They had an opportunity to build a solid team with the 3 DP rule and lots of revenue from fans like me who sit in 108 and pay almost $3000 for a pair of seats, and the best they could come up with was a slow as molasses Mista?? That really made no sense to me? The only solution to this is Mo, who must go.

reggie
09-08-2010, 09:37 AM
if mo is still around come mls final time...i say that is a perfect time for a protest.

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 09:38 AM
They had an opportunity to build a solid team with the 3 DP rule and lots of revenue from fans like me who sit in 108 and pay almost $3000 for a pair of seats, and the best they could come up with was a slow as molasses Mista?? That really made no sense to me? The only solution to this is Mo, who must go.

Many teams that are earning less at the gate are spending more on the pitch. And that is just the horrible facts that should anger all TFC fans.

The Mista signing was a headscratcher when it happened and I immediately started seeing signs of concern. I even put up a long thread about how he didn't seem fit and that I didn't see him making an impact on the team for several weeks, and look if I wasn't dead on. The Mista signing would have been better at the beginning of the year when we dropped a striker and Preki would have had time to get him fit and allow him to gel with the team. That fundamental strategy keeps being overlooked by this club and it's boneheaded soccer management who keep bringing in out-of-shape players mid-season that don't help us do squat.

__wowza
09-08-2010, 09:49 AM
this football club is akin to an abusive relationship.

however, as is the case with some abusive relationships, we're still here. this thread is full of countless people moaning about the quality of the team/play/coaching/management, the game day experience, the atmosphere, the pricing..

yet, here we are.

i understand that this has mostly become a place to rant about all of the aforementioned points, i get that, and i think that it's all that keeps us sane sometimes. but, if you believe for a single second that MLSE would bat a lash if any of you left, you need to take a long hard look at sports in this city. for every member denouncing season tickets, we have at least three ready to snatch them up.

so what if they freeze prices for season seats?

the concessions are still expensive.
the tickets are still expensive.
the packages are still expensive.
the parking is still expensive.
the quality is still poor.
the team is showing few signs of improvement.

if a roof is installed under the supporters section, all of these problems are still going to exist, you'll just be drier in the meantime. if this truly is a matter of supporting the team that you love, may i suggest redefining your definition of the word support. i support this team by watching them, cheering for them, getting my friends out to watch them, engaging in discussions with EPL elitists who want nothing more than to run my club into the ground, going on the forum at 3AM to shoot the shit about how we tanked yet another game, etc. somehow, i have just as much fun watching games on TV. i'll support this team, but i'll never be in the financial position where i feel season seats are essential to my life. i scream just as loud and share every emotion all of you do while watching a game at joes or at my local surrounded by friends and fellow supporters. that's something i feel we're getting lost in. this brings me to the final point of contention, and that's the general lack of communication.

what we WE done?

think about that for a second.

what have WE, the toronto FC supporters done to tell management that we not only disagree, but HATE several of the decisions that they've made? for a group full of rabid TFC, sports and footie fans, we've been generally tame. if this is as big of an issue as these 3+ pages make this out to be, then giving up your season seats isn't the best you can do.

do i support the decisions this organization is making?
do i support the direction MLSE is taking us?
so how far are you willing to go to tell them this?

cutting mo loose will show some semblance, an iota of their understanding of the fans, it's a start, but would this be good? or simply good enough?




sorry for the novel.

Boondaddy
09-08-2010, 09:57 AM
ive got 6...im keeping 2 and i never spent a penny in bmo.
i love my tfc and they are the only toronto team i will spend a penny on.
saying that..im so pissed with the mlse moto for all their teams of just making the playoffs,how about trying to win a championship..

mind reader!! I too am sick of this....Phaneuf just came out and said it again for the leafs and TFC have been saying it since Yr1.

Way to set the bar guys....seriously, am I reaching for the stars here???!

:facepalm:

Cashcleaner
09-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Many teams that are earning less at the gate are spending more on the pitch. And that is just the horrible facts that should anger all TFC fans.

The Mista signing was a headscratcher when it happened and I immediately started seeing signs of concern. I even put up a long thread about how he didn't seem fit and that I didn't see him making an impact on the team for several weeks, and look if I wasn't dead on. The Mista signing would have been better at the beginning of the year when we dropped a striker and Preki would have had time to get him fit and allow him to gel with the team. That fundamental strategy keeps being overlooked by this club and it's boneheaded soccer management who keep bringing in out-of-shape players mid-season that don't help us do squat.

THIS.

Myself and many others have been pointing this out for years now. MLSE has been raking in the money since the club was first awarded and has invested a minuscule amount back into the club compared to what they've taken as profit.

Consider the fact that they had over three quarters of their stadium paid for by the taxpayer.

Consider the fact that we've been selling merchandise second only to the LA Galaxy.

Consider the fact that while many MLS clubs are happy to see 15,000 people walk through their turnstiles on gameday, we consider a crowd of 18,00 to be disappointing.

All of that adds up to easy cash in the coffers of MLSE - a company currently valued at roughly 2 Billion USD.

Darlofletch
09-08-2010, 10:01 AM
Most people here seem to be cynical or angry, but most seem like they'll at least keep their seats, maybe downgrade, maybe get rid of extras they have.

Problem for FO is, is that cynicism and anger and nose-holding renewal among the more committed supporters, translates to apathy and non renewal among the casual fans, especially at the more expensive levels.

Wouldn't surprise me if MLSE and MLS deliberately held off hosting MLS cup here until such a time arrived. They knew the honeymoon was over, so voila, we have the big match to entice people for one more year, just in case things don't work out on the field, and we still don't have a winning team.

Boondaddy
09-08-2010, 10:05 AM
THIS.

Myself and many others have been pointing this out for years now. MLSE has been raking in the money since the club was first awarded and has invested a minuscule amount back into the club compared to what they've taken as profit.

Consider the fact that they had over three quarters of their stadium paid for by the taxpayer.

Consider the fact that we've been selling merchandise second only to the LA Galaxy.

Consider the fact that while many MLS clubs are happy to see 15,000 people walk through their turnstiles on gameday, we consider a crowd of 18,00 to be disappointing.

All of that adds up to easy cash in the coffers of MLSE - a company currently valued at roughly 2 Billion USD.

FUCKING AMEN TO THAT.

mastermixer
09-08-2010, 10:05 AM
This thread is similar to one from last year after the Energy Drink Debacle except this one is about a month and half earlier. Now thats progress! :facepalm:

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 10:13 AM
they need to get a grip on pricing. this is a league flooded with parity, so any promise about constant winning is utterly empty and it can never justify annual price hikes of 15%.

there has to be a balance between product quality and price. right now, that balance is horribly wrong in that we pay bucket loads for a relatively poor product compared to other MLS teams. they need to freeze ticket prices, lower concessions, offer occasional bonus deals like free parking and above all FIRE MO (and probably Preki) and get a decent product on the pitch (note, decent by MLS standards, no-one seriously expects world class football).

TFC John
09-08-2010, 10:21 AM
I will renew my seats because I can still afford to do so. I had seats in 124 in 2008 but downgraded (upgraded?) to 127 last year.

I'm looking forward to the seat re-location this year. If you are on these boards you are not the typical TFC fan. You are the most important but you are not typical. We saw this year that cold or wet weather makes the typical fans stay home on game day. I'm hoping that lots of them will not renew. I am also hoping that the low attendance this year will finally end the scalper business and many of those seats become available to real fans.

I expect ML$E to do what they've always done. We used to have a saying that went "I love the fucking army; and the army loves fucking me." The same goes for this relationship.

Someday the game day experience will no longer be worth the money. I'm not there yet so in the short term, I'm the idiot. When I get to the point that it's not worth it, I'll leave and won't come back. In the long term, they're the idiots. Sadly, that's what I have to live with.

Technorgasm
09-08-2010, 10:29 AM
My ticket price jumped to $1100 each in the upper deck.
Im in row 4 111 now paying less than $400. awww yea

My expectatins are always the same, score in every home game and Im happy.
casuals can be replaced from the list of people waiting. . . the long. . long list. . .
poor results just thin out the herd and get better fans. . its a fact.

Im not worried. as long as we dont get more fans like Yeoman, Nascar or Phonzo. . those fuckers are ca-ray-zee

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 10:31 AM
Most people here seem to be cynical or angry, but most seem like they'll at least keep their seats, maybe downgrade, maybe get rid of extras they have.

Problem for FO is, is that cynicism and anger and nose-holding renewal among the more committed supporters, translates to apathy and non renewal among the casual fans, especially at the more expensive levels.

Agreed Dunc, but therein lies the problem. See my post above that MLSE will not tolerate a drop in revenue streams (how could they justify that to the pension funds?) so they will compensate by taking more money from the seats that are sold (ie, the lower priced ones) and concessions, and in typical sleaze ball fashion they will screw the money out of us by fiddling the per game amount and raising the prices for things like the V-Cup games which we are FORCED into buying as part of the season ticket pack.

What would attendance be at the Carlsberg Cup friendly if we were not forced to buy the tickets? About 3,000 probably. But they likely have a deal with Carlsberg to include it on the fixture list and it gives them a guaranteed cash haul from something that would otherwise be an arse bleed. :facepalm:

KdotOdot
09-08-2010, 10:33 AM
At the end of the day it's all Canadian Soccer.

If TFC stays around for another 10 years I'll be flabbergasted.

__wowza
09-08-2010, 10:34 AM
poor results just thin out the herd and get better fans. . its a fact.

less fans = better fans.

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 10:36 AM
For the record, I fall into the category of person who would like to keep my season ticket seats for eternity. I hold some bitterness and resentment towards MLSE but this is counter balanced by all the good things they have done (and let's be honest, that list is pretty long too, not least getting us a team to begin with).

However, there will come a time when I have to consider holding on to my tickets because of the ludicrous price hikes rather than any resentment towards MLSE or the quality of the football. Nearly doubling in price in three years with nothing to show for it other than another blow out in the play off race? WHAT THE FUCK?! I mean think about how crazy that is. If it keeps up, then I will have to let the tickets go, whether I want to or not. And those are south end tickets, there's no down grading price-wise.

Technorgasm
09-08-2010, 10:41 AM
At the end of the day it's all Canadian Soccer.

If TFC stays around for another 10 years I'll be flabbergasted.

Bring Back the Blizzard.. . . .

I agree with teh above sttement.
Its still a treat to me to have local ball. I hope that feeling is widespread within thsi group.

Bollocks to the rest.

If your asking questions to do with the Ticketprice vs Results ratio.
Please call:RICHARD PEDDY at 416-815-5400
re: THE TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS

Cashcleaner
09-08-2010, 10:47 AM
less fans = better fans.

No. More like less fans = less fans.

Say what you want about the unwashed masses that many tend to look down their noses at; but we NEED those soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits.

This club will fold like a deck of cards if those "inferior fans" were to suddenly pack up and leave BMO Field for good.

nascarguy
09-08-2010, 10:55 AM
if mo is still around come mls final time...i say that is a perfect time for a protest.
too late then

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 11:00 AM
No. More like less fans = less fans.

Say what you want about the unwashed masses that many tend to look down their noses at; but we NEED those soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits.

This club will fold like a deck of cards if those "inferior fans" were to suddenly pack up and leave BMO Field for good.

I gotta agree with Cash. I know that sometimes "supporters" look down at the regular fan, but I think that is a mistake. We need ALL types of fans and spectators in the crowds. The plain fact of the matter is that there isn't enough of "us" to make up for regular fans should they decide to leave in order to keep this team viable and relevant. To wish regular fans gone is a foolish wish.

Suds
09-08-2010, 11:01 AM
No. More like less fans = less fans.

Say what you want about the unwashed masses that many tend to look down their noses at; but we NEED those soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits.

This club will fold like a deck of cards if those "inferior fans" were to suddenly pack up and leave BMO Field for good.

well said

sampace
09-08-2010, 11:06 AM
I think that is safe to say, the attendance will drop off...unless they bring a DP who is worth the DP money and will excite the fans...a la Del Piero!

ManUtd4ever
09-08-2010, 11:09 AM
No. More like less fans = less fans.

Say what you want about the unwashed masses that many tend to look down their noses at; but we NEED those soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits.

This club will fold like a deck of cards if those "inferior fans" were to suddenly pack up and leave BMO Field for good.


I gotta agree with Cash. I know that sometimes "supporters" look down at the regular fan, but I think that is a mistake. We need ALL types of fans and spectators in the crowds. The plain fact of the matter is that there isn't enough of "us" to make up for regular fans should they decide to leave in order to keep this team viable and relevant. To wish regular fans gone is a foolish wish.

Agreed, and it is the "casual" supporters that are being exploited the most in terms of ticket prices. MLSE will be treading dangerous waters if the trend of years past continues...

nascarguy
09-08-2010, 11:10 AM
soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits = leafs crowd

dupont
09-08-2010, 11:14 AM
I won't leave because I'm a super(idiot)fan. However, thousands of others that aren't as crazy as me will definitely leave. The prices are too high for the perceived value and not making the playoffs over and over is hurtful to fans that already experience that enough with the other Toronto sports teams.

I'll echo the other statements. I have season tickets in 106 and when I can't go, I have to give them away. No one will pay for them. That shows you how much people think the product is worth.

Beach_Red
09-08-2010, 11:20 AM
soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits = leafs crowd


Well, sure, at these prices that's what they're going after. It's the only market MLSE is interested in.

But as people have pointed out, other MLS teams charge less for tickets. If TFC had different owners that accepted less profit (not no profit, just less) and they charged less for tickets they'd get different fans -maybe even more.

jloome
09-08-2010, 11:27 AM
IF MLSE is like most corporate cultures, the real shame of all of this is the inevitability of these issues -- because even if MLSE folk were reading this thread, and understanding the implication of hardcore fans not willing to buy a seat, they'd be corporate types, protecting their job or career by not saying shit if they had a mouthful.

Welcome to the world of business where, just like government, people succeed in spite of themselves.

Phil
09-08-2010, 11:29 AM
Well, sure, at these prices that's what they're going after. It's the only market MLSE is interested in.

But as people have pointed out, other MLS teams charge less for tickets. If TFC had different owners that accepted less profit (not no profit, just less) and they charged less for tickets they'd get different fans -maybe even more.

Well the issue is this: Other teams dont make money like we do, so with the supply demand issue as it is, they will always go for more money. This isnt a phenomenon exclusive to MLSE, this is any ownership group anywhere.

In other markets they will see a decline in demand based off of product results....wins = attendence, loss = empty seats.

Now, present company excluded (as supporters I think most of us will be fighting to keep our tickets) it will be up to people to dump extra tickets or not renew at all in order to actually change this for MLSE. As other have stated, they are sitting on a list that they think will come and buy tickets at whatever price and the reality is far different. This year we are seeing it, wether it be a friendly, concacaf game or just bad weather. The only time it will really hammer home is renewal.

Then we go back to the exact same scenareo....product will *hopefully* improve and people will return. A great example to me is the Jays from say 1990 to now.

__wowza
09-08-2010, 11:29 AM
Suds/Roogsy/ManUtd4ever/Cashcleaner:
my response was in regards to technogasms post

"poor results just thin out the herd and get better fans. . its a fact."

hence the "less fans = better fans" comment.

clc12
09-08-2010, 11:32 AM
if mo is still around come mls final time...i say that is a perfect time for a protest.

i agree. having a lot of empty seats at bmo on the day of the final will be a slap in the face to MLSE. a nice little protest outside would be great to!

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 11:35 AM
IF MLSE is like most corporate cultures, the real shame of all of this is the inevitability of these issues -- because even if MLSE folk were reading this thread, and understanding the implication of hardcore fans not willing to buy a seat, they'd be corporate types, protecting their job or career by not saying shit if they had a mouthful.

Welcome to the world of business where, just like government, people succeed in spite of themselves.


QFFT...

Beach_Red
09-08-2010, 11:38 AM
Well the issue is this: Other teams dont make money like we do, so with the supply demand issue as it is, they will always go for more money. This isnt a phenomenon exclusive to MLSE, this is any ownership group anywhere.




Sure, I get what you're saying, but not every ownership group is the same. As JLoome points out, what we have here are a bunch of career corporate employees - there is no public face of this ownership group, no one putting their personal stamp on the company.

We have seen ownership changes make a big difference to sports teams (look at NYRB).

Phil
09-08-2010, 11:41 AM
Sure, I get what you're saying, but not every ownership group is the same. As JLoome points out, what we have here are a bunch of career corporate employees - there is no public face of this ownership group, no one putting their personal stamp on the company.

We have seen ownership changes make a big difference to sports teams (look at NYRB).

Agreed and JLoome makes a valid point.

Owners make a huge difference, but I think attendence is directly linked to their level of failure. I try and tell myself that....:drinking:

Section 117
09-08-2010, 12:15 PM
I blame JDG for our season tickets going up..... LOL

On a more serious note MLSE spends money on the team period. If it is spent properly that is another issue.

With respect to prices for next year I can't see the suits looking at TFC and saying let's jack the prices again. The demand is no longer there period. Some of us can't give tickets away. Look at the optional games that aren't included in the season tickets not once was it sold out. They know that the supposed waiting list is all crap they are just trying to boost demand.

IMO this is what they should ticket freeze across the board, there is 0 justification for rasing prices. We have the most expensive average ticket prices in all of the MLS and we are one of the most horribly run franchises in this league. The north end should be priced equivalent to the south end. I would like to know why those seats are more expensive??? This should tame the masses for at least a year where they can: 1. fix this shit show of a front office and 2. hopefully sell out the north end and bring back casual fans. As much we hate the casual fans their money is as good as our and they need to be there to increase revenue

The tag of model franchise is about to go down the drain if MLSE continues to treat TFC fans like Maple Leaf fans. We want continued progress of our squad to become contenders year in and year out not this revolving door of crap that has been our team for three and half years.

I hope Paul Bernie sees the discontent that their core fans have with the prodcut on and off the field and the ramifications of alienating the die hard TFC fans. As if MLSE continues this path I hate to say it but we could either see the squad leave or worse have attendance like the crew or dallas

Oblio2
09-08-2010, 12:15 PM
I am just sick of paying Premier League prices for 3rd Division football.
I have 2 pairs of ST. 110 and 127.
Im not sure what I am going to do......but will need to think about this because it's crazy what we pay, for what we get.

J .
09-08-2010, 12:19 PM
The bonus of this would be to hopefully get the supporters more concentrated. Maybe the scalpers sell of some seasons in the south or 127 ends.

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 12:29 PM
The bonus of this would be to hopefully get the supporters more concentrated. Maybe the scalpers sell of some seasons in the south or 127 ends.

Doubt it. The seats that scalpers will be taking a hit on are the more expensive ones. So if anything, this will make things worse since they will just look to relocate as many pricey seats to the south end as possible.

And the way things sound on here, they may have more seats to choose from than they expected... :(

Mikey
09-08-2010, 01:04 PM
LOL at the less fans = better fans, was waiting for those comments to start. Dallas must have AWESOME fans, they only get 5,000 turning up for a game!! (Even in the all you can eat section with the double wide seats.....)

There is something to be said for being able to see that the emperor has no clothes, and what you are being sold is worthless, but wrapped in a fancy package and priced according to your misplaced loyalties towards what you want, not what you are being given.

__wowza
09-08-2010, 01:17 PM
LOL at the less fans = better fans

:facepalm: i thought i established my sarcasm in that comment already.

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 01:18 PM
:facepalm: i thought i established my sarcasm in that comment already.


:lol:

I feel for you Wowza...I understood after you explained. As it happens online at times, sarcasm sometimes loses it's edge on the interwebz.

Dave67
09-08-2010, 01:26 PM
Just got an offer from TSN for Champions league tickets at a discount and with no service charge. I'd say ineterst is fading a touch. Has TFC ever offered discount tickets before? I really don't know as I have not needed to buy tickets before so I don't really pay attention to the offers.

rocker
09-08-2010, 01:39 PM
Did someone really say in this thread they'd be surprised if TFC is still around in 10 years or did I misread that?
TFC will always be around (and MLS has survived 16 or so seasons under worse conditions than now). They budgeted for 14000 attendance. It would take a shocking loss of support to get to 14000 average for TFC.
Remember: MLS's revenue sharing model means you can survive with even less than 14000 (see Dallas).
TFC could lose 7000 people per game (the equivalent of the whole east stand being completely empty), and still be at the budgeted average.

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 01:48 PM
Did someone really say in this thread they'd be surprised if TFC is still around in 10 years or did I misread that?
TFC will always be around (and MLS has survived 16 or so seasons under worse conditions than now). They budgeted for 14000 attendance. It would take a shocking loss of support to get to 14000 average for TFC.
Remember: MLS's revenue sharing model means you can survive with even less than 14000 (see Dallas).
TFC could lose 7000 people per game (the equivalent of the whole east stand being completely empty), and still be at the budgeted average.

So what you're saying is that the incentive for MLSE to listen to the core message from this thread is virtually nil.

Now I'm really depressed... :(

Ben - D.O.W.
09-08-2010, 01:49 PM
On the topic of Toronto FC being overpriced for MLS - Chicago just tweeted this for our game there tonight - so not only are there no extra fees (hello ticketmaster if you have to pick up a single game ticket) but it looks like to me they average around 50% for comparable seats at BMO:



Tickets purchased from us are available with no additional processing fees, and are picked up by you on gameday at the Fire's ticket hut by Gate B.

Supporters/Section 8 (sections 117/118): $15
Firehouse (sections 116 or 119): $22
Skyway Premier (section 210): $24
Skyway Center Circle (section 208): $26
Corner Kick (section 113): $28
Premier (section 110): $38
Miller Lite Party Deck (section 135): $50
Center Circle (section 108): $50
Club Seats (section 129): $70
Beer Buses: We also offer round trip bus rides to Toyota Park from bars around the city for just $10, including beer on the bus


Now I love this team. I don't want to not have season tickets for this team anymore but if I'm stuck in 109 again next year, and prices keep going up I'm going to have to seriously consider whether I can afford them, especially when you consider the extra $ from driving in for every game.

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 02:04 PM
On the topic of Toronto FC being overpriced for MLS - Chicago just tweeted this for our game there tonight - so not only are there no extra fees (hello ticketmaster if you have to pick up a single game ticket) but it looks like to me they average around 50% for comparable seats at BMO:




Tickets purchased from us are available with no additional processing fees, and are picked up by you on gameday at the Fire's ticket hut by Gate B.

Supporters/Section 8 (sections 117/118): $15
Firehouse (sections 116 or 119): $22
Skyway Premier (section 210): $24
Skyway Center Circle (section 208): $26
Corner Kick (section 113): $28
Premier (section 110): $38
Miller Lite Party Deck (section 135): $50
Center Circle (section 108): $50
Club Seats (section 129): $70
Beer Buses: We also offer round trip bus rides to Toyota Park from bars around the city for just $10, including beer on the bus


Now I love this team. I don't want to not have season tickets for this team anymore but if I'm stuck in 109 again next year, and prices keep going up I'm going to have to seriously consider whether I can afford them, especially when you consider the extra $ from driving in for every game.

There isn't much else you can say about that. This says it all...and this team has Freddy Ljunberg and Brian McBride as DPs.

Suds
09-08-2010, 02:11 PM
Now I love this team. I don't want to not have season tickets for this team anymore but if I'm stuck in 109 again next year, and prices keep going up I'm going to have to seriously consider whether I can afford them, especially when you consider the extra $ from driving in for every game.


And there is always a chance you will. I was absolutely disgusted to find out cheaper seats became available to people on the waiting list that were not available to me as a SSH after last years relocation event. It really made me feel like TFC could really care less about their fans from day 1 since they have our money anyway. - But the whole relocation event crap-show is another discussion all together. :(

redcard
09-08-2010, 02:14 PM
unfortunately as always..renewals will be in the 90% rage...even though the CCL/NCC and friendlies are not sold out...the league matches are well attended, we have seen the disgruntled supporters not wanting to renew in the past, but renewals are always high...the supporters voice does not appear to be making an impact with the FO

and in a year when the cup final will be offered as part of the renewal - possibility of beckham making an appearance...renewals will definitly be high...

Mark in Ottawa
09-08-2010, 02:14 PM
For many of the 75 Mile Bastards the ticket costs are the cheapest part of the day.
Transportation, lodging, meals and drinks... it all adds up pretty fast.

The only good news is that with that many disgruntled fans around well... there has to be a straight partial pack, not a "ransom pack", available at less than red seat prices... right?

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 02:17 PM
For many of the 75 Mile Bastards the ticket costs are the cheapest part of the day.
Transportation, lodging, meals and drinks... it all adds up pretty fast.

The only good news is that with that many disgruntled fans around well... there has to be a straight partial pack, not a "ransom pack", available at less than red seat prices... right?

Hopefully. I'd rather see more 75MBs on gameday. Dedicated bunch that group is...

maninb
09-08-2010, 02:18 PM
less fans = better fans.

What an idiotic remark!!!! TFC needs the casual fans, kids, and corporate types....just as much as they need the diehards....

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 02:19 PM
What an idiotic remark!!!! TFC needs the casual fans, kids, and corporate types....just as much as they need the diehards....


He has explained that he was bring sarcastic.

Suds
09-08-2010, 02:21 PM
^^
haha ... that's why I always read the whole thread before posting now ... I've caught myself responding to something that has already been clarified.

mastermixer
09-08-2010, 02:24 PM
unfortunately as always..renewals will be in the 90% rage...even though the CCL/NCC and friendlies are not sold out...the league matches are well attended, we have seen the disgruntled supporters not wanting to renew in the past, but renewals are always high...the supporters voice does not appear to be making an impact with the FO

and in a year when the cup final will be offered as part of the renewal - possibility of beckham making an appearance...renewals will definitly be high...

I guarantee MLSE will market the final to us as possibly having a Beckham vs Henry matchup just to get people renewing, even though it may very well end up being Columbus vs San Jose.

maninb
09-08-2010, 02:25 PM
He has explained that he was bring sarcastic.

Noted.....

RedsYNWA
09-08-2010, 02:30 PM
On the topic of Toronto FC being overpriced for MLS - Chicago just tweeted this for our game there tonight - so not only are there no extra fees (hello ticketmaster if you have to pick up a single game ticket) but it looks like to me they average around 50% for comparable seats at BMO:




Tickets purchased from us are available with no additional processing fees, and are picked up by you on gameday at the Fire's ticket hut by Gate B.

Supporters/Section 8 (sections 117/118): $15
Firehouse (sections 116 or 119): $22
Skyway Premier (section 210): $24
Skyway Center Circle (section 208): $26
Corner Kick (section 113): $28
Premier (section 110): $38
Miller Lite Party Deck (section 135): $50
Center Circle (section 108): $50
Club Seats (section 129): $70
Beer Buses: We also offer round trip bus rides to Toyota Park from bars around the city for just $10, including beer on the bus


Now I love this team. I don't want to not have season tickets for this team anymore but if I'm stuck in 109 again next year, and prices keep going up I'm going to have to seriously consider whether I can afford them, especially when you consider the extra $ from driving in for every game.

This just made me cry :(

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-08-2010, 02:31 PM
Supporters/Section 8 (sections 117/118): $15
Firehouse (sections 116 or 119): $22
Skyway Premier (section 210): $24
Skyway Center Circle (section 208): $26
Corner Kick (section 113): $28
Premier (section 110): $38
Miller Lite Party Deck (section 135): $50
Center Circle (section 108): $50
Club Seats (section 129): $70


fire have it right......this is more the fair for the product that the MLS offers...

I'd be fine with this...for TFC matches!...

Hell we are on par with top clubs in the world..

TFC better evaluate this quick...or they are in big trouble

__wowza
09-08-2010, 02:31 PM
What an idiotic remark!!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/29/Scary_Door_Time_Enough.jpg/250px-Scary_Door_Time_Enough.jpg

RedsYNWA
09-08-2010, 02:33 PM
I for one will be dropping one seat as will my buddy and we will split a pair in 116. I know the guy behind me that has a dozen seats is dropping all but 2. There will be plenty in the south end to choose from at the end of this year

__wowza
09-08-2010, 02:33 PM
fire have it right......this is more the fair for the product that the MLS offers...

I'd be fine with this...for TFC matches!...

Hell we are on par with top clubs in the world..

TFC better evaluate this quick...or they are in big trouble

many people have mentioned it, but it'll be interested to see how prices vary when montreal come into the league. it'll be a more even comparison.

RedsYNWA
09-08-2010, 02:36 PM
I was at the Canada Peru match where the talent on the field exceeded an MLS match. Tickets were overpriced and there were 10K there...
Sadly if things don't change this is where TFC is heading

nascarguy
09-08-2010, 02:39 PM
I guarantee MLSE will market the final to us as possibly having a Beckham vs Henry matchup just to get people renewing, even though it may very well end up being Columbus vs San Jose.
I'm not wasting my time or money on the mls cup if TFC is not playing.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-08-2010, 02:41 PM
many people have mentioned it, but it'll be interested to see how prices vary when montreal come into the league. it'll be a more even comparison.


I guarantee Montreal...wont be close to this this... the ;lower end tickets will be close...but when you get to the higher end tickets.....it most likely wont be anywhere close to what TFC...is.....Priemium mAtch $120...thats a fucking joke!.....Carlsberg cup $192......LOL...

they think cause its TORONTO.... RAPE is legal!.....

CSA charged $40 for top tickets the other night in Montreal.....

the game in Toronto...hahahah you know what i mean!

2010 SINGLE MATCH PRICES
Regular MLS Game** $96
$76 $60 $40 $28 $26

Premium Match $120
$88 $66 $51 $42 $40

Carlsberg Cup Match $192
$152 $120 $80 $56 $52

billyfly
09-08-2010, 02:42 PM
I'm holding on (barely)

mastermixer
09-08-2010, 02:55 PM
TFC: Love the team... Hate the organization.

nascarguy
09-08-2010, 03:10 PM
they need to drop the Carlsberg cup and the friendlys from the season ticket pack

Ben - D.O.W.
09-08-2010, 03:13 PM
they need to drop the Carlsberg cup and the friendlys from the season ticket pack

I don't think they're willing to sell < 5,000 tickets to these games. I know I couldn't give mine away this year.

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 03:33 PM
No doubt MLSE will try and pitch the Cup final in their marketing "Hey look, we have the MLS Cup Final and as a season ticket holder YOU get a priority window to order tickets" etc, but is there really anything wrong with this? I mean, we all wanted the final to come here, and we'd all want first chance at tickets and would eb screaming bloody murder at them if they didn't give it to us. They are right to be proud t have the final and right to market it. And if prices are too high, then people wil simply pass on them. I can't see this being much of an issue when it comes to SSH renewals though. Either people are pissed off and have had enough or they have already decided to stick it out. The number of people that would be pushed over the line to renew just because of the chance at MLS Cup Final tickets would be very, very small I think.

But outside of the Cup final, it;s been apparent for a while that MSLE are raping us and there's no signs of it stopping either. I'd be prepared to bet that there's another price hike for 2011. The arrogance is mind boggling. not to mention the short sighted stupidity.

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 03:38 PM
they need to drop the Carlsberg cup and the friendlys from the season ticket pack


I don't think they're willing to sell < 5,000 tickets to these games. I know I couldn't give mine away this year.

My guess is that the deal with Carlsberg requires them to include the CC ni the season ticket match. it would look terrible for the sponsor if only 3,000 tickets were sold to the showpiece sponsor friendly. The prices they charge are outrageous though, and it's just another form of financial rape on the SSHs.

The V-Cup they should make optional but I totally agree that they are terrified of only selling a few thousand tickets per game and having to operate those matches at a loss, so they force us into ticket sales just to get the cash grab. In fairness this is probably good for the competition and for Canadian soccer generally as a result, but somehow I doubt that's their motivation...

wzhxvy
09-08-2010, 04:04 PM
Nothing will change. You think Paul or Anselmi have the guts to go to MLSE and say we are dropping prices at this point ? Of course not...these guys are employees (with an undeservedly healthy ego mind you) who sold a vision of NE seats and grass, etc...but they are still employees. MLSE will only act after there is a real issue at hand ie after next season. If anyone thinks total prices are going to be flat next year...they are dreaming. I expect a 20% increase in total cost for the lower end seats, when you layer in the 2 extra games, and the MLS cup. South End seats will be $500 including Cup Final. And the dark greys will likely go up 10%.

And as someone said, scalpers will adjust their portfolio of seats accordingly and MLSE will be more than supportive through the relocation process. Bob's your uncle.

bgnewf
09-08-2010, 04:07 PM
My blog server is down today so I was not able to post this item I wrote earlier today about this very issue.

I have been reading the following thread on the Red Patch Boys web site with great interest today, as I think it captures very well a lot of the angst among supporters of Toronto FC about their upcoming season ticket renewals for 2011 and the lack of information to date about tickets for the MLS Cup Final at BMO Field on November 21st. I urge you all to take a look at the thread here:

RPB Thread Link (http://64.13.252.151/forums/showthread.php?t=24454)

With just over ten weeks to go before the Cup Final is held here in Toronto, to date there has been no news whatsoever from the club about the ticketing information for the game. And the general fan consensus appears to be that with the annual 2011 season ticket renewal campaign upcoming soon there is likely to be some arrangement made whereby if fans renew their seats for 2011, they will have the option to purchase MLS Cup tickets first.

With the strong possibility that Toronto will for the fourth season in a row not be able to reward fans with playoff soccer there is a possibility that Toronto FC may see for the first time a big drop off in season ticket renewals. And there is definitely anecdotal information out there to back this up. In each season so far in their history there have been season ticket price hikes that average about 15% across the board. And it would not be surprising if that continues, even though it would be a serious error on the part of the club if they think that it should business as usual.

One of the posters on the Red Patch Boys (well done Mikey!) took it upon himself to take a look at where the prices for the most expensive TFC season tickets compare to some of the top teams in the English Premier League to try and provide some context as to where TFC prices its product. Here is what he came up with:

Manchester United: $1,494.37
Newcastle: $1,564.99
Chelsea: $1,942.20
Tottenham: $2,720.68
Arsenal: $2,929.35
Toronto: $3,439.00

Are you as surprised as I am to see these figures? And these sums are all in Canadian dollars! So for a club that has yet to get into the post season in their history their top ticket is $1,500 more than what my Gunners charge their fans in north London to see Premiership soccer. These numbers shocked me when I saw them and they again back up the anecdotal evidence out there that at the higher price points Toronto may indeed have some problems for the first time in their history filling their building in 2011.

Many fans are saying they will be only renewing if there is a change of leadership at the club that sees Mo Johnston fired. Others are saying they will only renew if they can obtain cheaper seats next year. Fans are reporting that scalpers are having a harder and harder time getting rid of their seats on game days. Some of the more committed fans, who spend large sums on merchandise, road trips, and displays/tifos within the ground feel that another increase would be something simply put that could not be justified and if price increases take place some of them may simply walk away. Driving away even a few of your most committed ardent fans who add so much to the game day experience in the stadium would be a huge error.

The bottom line for me is this. With a few glaring exceptions, Toronto FC has made few significant mistakes that have seen them totally read their fan base wrong in their short history. Another significant price increase considering the continuing problems on the field would be arguably the biggest mistake they have ever made.

Pookie
09-08-2010, 04:13 PM
Interesting question... would firing Mo and making the playoffs justify increases in ticket prices or have we reached the limit already?

I think we are at the limit/roll back now point.

From a personal note, I was offered a chance to move from the Gold list into seasons in the Reds and Dark Greys. I opted instead for partial packs in the section that was both affordable and a lot more fun.

I might have gone with the Dark Grey/Red if it wasn't like a library and at a lower price point. The sight lines are much better than being in a corner or behind the goal.

In securing additional seats, I avoid the North Stand. It has the same sight lines but double the price of the South and NO opportunity for me to enjoy the game as I like.

The CCL games with the sparsely populated Centre lines and empty new North End paints a very telling picture that touches on price AND environment as factors in our collective purchase decisions

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 04:15 PM
I am still shocked at that number. United's top seats only cost $1500 CAD? How can that be?

Can someone verify these numbers?

Pookie
09-08-2010, 04:52 PM
^ here ya go. From the Official Web Site

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid=%7B932F65DC-9AE7-433B-A16F-F827B5F1D40D%7D

£836

Pookie
09-08-2010, 05:21 PM
Further to the list:

Top Ticket Prices for MLS Club (using Centreline ticket prices as the common variable). Prices converted to US$:

DC United - $390
KC - $396
San Jose - $680 (Premium tables at $1,700)
New York - $695 (they do have a $3,000 Club Section but it includes food and parking in the price... more like a Field Table)
New England - $864
LA - $950 (Field Side "Tables" also available at $3,000 each)
Philadelphia - $1,100
FC Dallas - $1,260
Colorado - $1,260
Chivas - - $1,296
Houston - $1,298
Seattle - $1,570
Toronto - $1,903 ($1,672CDN + $300CDN Club Fee)

* note couldn't find Columbus, Chicago

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 05:22 PM
I've made this point already but it's worth repeating I think. There are a lot of people who are starting to fall into the bracket of "want to keep my seats but cannot afford to if this racket keeps up". This isn;t resentment at anything TFC or MLSE related, it's a simple cost issue. South end seats in year 1 were about $200. We're on course for more like $500 in a span of about 5 years. That is quite simply madness. Losing team or MLS Cup winning team, a lot of people just cannot keep up with the constant price hikes, or can but are finding it harder and harder to justify.

Hitcho
09-08-2010, 05:23 PM
Further to the list:

Top Ticket Prices for MLS Club (using Centreline ticket prices as the common variable). Prices converted to US$:

DC United - $390
KC - $396
San Jose - $680 (Premium tables at $1,700)
New York - $695 (they do have a $3,000 Club Section but it includes food and parking in the price... more like a Field Table)
New England - $864
LA - $950 (Field Side "Tables" also available at $3,000 each)
Philadelphia - $1,100
FC Dallas - $1,260
Colorado - $1,260
Chivas - - $1,296
Houston - $1,298
Seattle - $1,570
Toronto - $1,903 ($1,672CDN + $300CDN Club Fee)

* note couldn't find Columbus, Chicago

That is shocking. Absolutely shocking.

ManUtd4ever
09-08-2010, 05:25 PM
Further to the list:

Top Ticket Prices for MLS Club (using Centreline ticket prices as the common variable). Prices converted to US$:

DC United - $390
KC - $396
San Jose - $680 (Premium tables at $1,700)
New York - $695 (they do have a $3,000 Club Section but it includes food and parking in the price... more like a Field Table)
New England - $864
LA - $950 (Field Side "Tables" also available at $3,000 each)
Philadelphia - $1,100
FC Dallas - $1,260
Colorado - $1,260
Chivas - - $1,296
Houston - $1,298
Seattle - $1,570
Toronto - $1,903 ($1,672CDN + $300CDN Club Fee)

* note couldn't find Columbus, Chicago

So apparently the reward for being the 2 best supported franchises in the league is rape. At least Seattle fans are getting a taste of success :facepalm:

Juanito
09-08-2010, 05:27 PM
We're a by-product of our own success. I'm not on the "we must make the playoffs or I leave" bandwagon, but it would be nice to be rewarded.

rocker
09-08-2010, 05:30 PM
I've made this point already but it's worth repeating I think. There are a lot of people who are starting to fall into the bracket of "want to keep my seats but cannot afford to if this racket keeps up".

But it depends on which section they are in. If they can't afford south end or even corner seats, they probably shouldn't be buying 18 games of a football team, ya know? They should be spending that money on paying the day to day bills.

Brooker
09-08-2010, 05:36 PM
One of the posters on the Red Patch Boys (well done Mikey!) took it upon himself to take a look at where the prices for the most expensive TFC season tickets compare to some of the top teams in the English Premier League to try and provide some context as to where TFC prices its product. Here is what he came up with:

Manchester United: $1,494.37
Newcastle: $1,564.99
Chelsea: $1,942.20
Tottenham: $2,720.68
Arsenal: $2,929.35
Toronto: $3,439.00

Are you as surprised as I am to see these figures? And these sums are all in Canadian dollars! So for a club that has yet to get into the post season in their history their top ticket is $1,500 more than what my Gunners charge their fans in north London to see Premiership soccer. These numbers shocked me when I saw them and they again back up the anecdotal evidence out there that at the higher price points Toronto may indeed have some problems for the first time in their history filling their building in 2011.



Not at all. They make boatloads of money elsewhere. We make the vast majority of our money from attendance.

apples to oranges my friend.

supersaint
09-08-2010, 05:38 PM
I found all the feedback on my thread really interesting. For me, with my sec 106 seats, it is the football mainly that has me seriously questioning whether or not I renew. The cost is a pain, but I could live with that if I was getting to watch good entertaining football. I just cannot stand the type of football that Preki has our boys playing. It is all about working hard, but while I admit every team needs grafters, it also needs some creativity up front. Dont tell me we cant expect that in MLS. I really enjoy the football that Real Salt Lake, NY RedBull, Seattle and LA play, to name a few.
His tactics upfront are nonexistent, he CANNOT manage skill players, and he doesnt seem to be able to improve the game of youngsters. I see no improvement in White, Ibrahim, Sanyang etc, no development. I cannot stand listening to Preki in interviews. In my view he is mainly the reason for the demise this season over last. So in that regard I blame Mo also, for hiring him.
I do resent having to buy friendly tickets to watch such dud games as Pachuca, Estudiantes, River Plate etc. and also Voyageur Cup matches.
So my big issue is the fact that I really dont wanna pay over 3600 bucks for four seats to watch a team coached by Preki. He will NEVER win an MLS cup for any team, and you can take that to the bank!

rocker
09-08-2010, 05:42 PM
Not at all. They make boatloads of money elsewhere. We make the vast majority of our money from attendance.

apples to oranges my friend.

Man U also makes vastly more money in ticket revenue per game than TFC does due to a stadium that's nearly 4x bigger. Man U's prices are obviously appropriately priced to fill a nearly 80K seat stadium. They would know what their market would bear.

And Man U doesn't have to give 20% or whatever it is to anyone (like MLS).

Pookie
09-08-2010, 05:49 PM
Comparing Supporter Prices

DC - $72
Colorado - $162
Dallas - $170
Chivas - $180
San Jose - $204
New England - $216
New York - $272
Real Salt Lake - $275
Houston - $334
Toronto - $348
LA - $400
Seattle - $400

Brooker
09-08-2010, 05:52 PM
Man U also makes vastly more money in ticket revenue per game than TFC does due to a stadium that's nearly 4x bigger. Man U's prices are obviously appropriately priced to fill a nearly 80K seat stadium. They would know what their market would bear.

And Man U doesn't have to give 20% or whatever it is to anyone (like MLS).

well said.

Manchester United: 80,000
Newcastle: 52,000
Chelsea: 41,000
Tottenham: 36,000
Arsenal: 60,000
Toronto: 22,000

nascarguy
09-08-2010, 05:52 PM
I say this if I do not think I will have the money to pay the full price I will not be putting a 20% down that I can not get back.

Torontotonto
09-08-2010, 05:54 PM
Since I have to buy the MLS Cup ticket to keep my seasons, who wants to buy my MLS Cup tickets...???

Carts...

Is that the deal ?

I will be renewing again for next year, but have no interest in the MLS cup if TFC are not in it. Going to contact my account rep to see if it is a requirement. If so, mine will also be for sale.

:icon_bs:

bgnewf
09-08-2010, 06:07 PM
Is that the deal ?

I will be renewing again for next year, but have no interest in the MLS cup if TFC are not in it. Going to contact my account rep to see if it is a requirement. If so, mine will also be for sale.

:icon_bs:

Hearing rumbling that this is the case. And with the suckage on the field, and about only ten weeks to go to sell 20,000+ MLS Cup tickets it makes sense from a business perspective.

I am with you, no interest in going to BMO in late November and seeing fucking Landycakes take on Steven cocksucking Lenhart for the MLS Cup.

backbeat
09-08-2010, 06:17 PM
not sure how to take all of this - sometimes i think it's the over-the-top reaction this board gets to anything TFC or if we really are on a downward spiral.

anyroad - we canny compare our prices to EPL - they have other huge revenue from TV to sponsors to stadium size etc. - we're not there yet - i hope someday - it is however realistic to compare to other MLS teams, we do need to be in-line and i really believe we do need to get serious, from a management perspective about producing a product that galvanizes the community.

What worries me more is we have a REALLY good thing going here and i’d hate to see it vanish – i LOVE having a home team to support and look forward to. I don’t care that it's not EPL level yet. I do care that it progresses, little by little, bit by bit, each year....

MLSE needs to be sure it addresses pushing for expanded roster sizes, pursuing quality DP's that attract the broader community and the other things - that i think they are doing well like new sophisticated practice facilities, grass at home, expanded stadium and getting into the community

T.O TILL I DIE
09-08-2010, 06:21 PM
well i dont think im renewing next year i just cant spend over 2grand every year
its too bad becuase alot of other people arent renewing either!!

Batman
09-08-2010, 06:22 PM
If you are not making the playoffs... Give me a motherfucking roof... over the South End and we can call it even!

this IS the correct answer!

ensco
09-08-2010, 06:24 PM
This is my prediction:

MLSE will hold the season ticket price flat but do away with the included international friendly, which few seem to value. They'll spin it as listening to the fans re schedule congestion, blah blah blah, but it'll really be a hidden form of price increase. One fewer game for the same price. If they do a friendly, better to try to repeat something like the RM game, which was a big winner (despite how people here felt about it).

I think they'd be insane to force people to buy the MLS Cup game. People would go crazy. And for what? There's no need. The stadium isn't that big.

They'll incent renewals to buy the MLS Cup game, by offering a huge discount (say $50-125 vs Ticketmaster price of $100-250). A lot of people would buy those tickets just to scalp them.

menefreghista
09-08-2010, 06:29 PM
I figured they would handle the MLS Cup the same way they did the All-Star game, with the choice to opt-in.

It will suck if they force us to take the MLS Cup tickets. I was planning to go anyways, but I'm sure there are others who want to have the choice.

Its pretty much a guarantee our season will go up in price if they are adding 2 league games and the MLS Cup.

Heathen
09-08-2010, 06:56 PM
I think even MLSE would see the danger in forcing an already disgruntled support to buy tickets to a game with a national US audience.

Roogsy
09-08-2010, 08:18 PM
Further to the list:

Top Ticket Prices for MLS Club (using Centreline ticket prices as the common variable). Prices converted to US$:

DC United - $390
KC - $396
San Jose - $680 (Premium tables at $1,700)
New York - $695 (they do have a $3,000 Club Section but it includes food and parking in the price... more like a Field Table)
New England - $864
LA - $950 (Field Side "Tables" also available at $3,000 each)
Philadelphia - $1,100
FC Dallas - $1,260
Colorado - $1,260
Chivas - - $1,296
Houston - $1,298
Seattle - $1,570
Toronto - $1,903 ($1,672CDN + $300CDN Club Fee)

* note couldn't find Columbus, Chicago


This is a gut-kick if I have ever seen one. TFC fans are being rewarded with their loyalty with a slap in the face.

backbeat
09-08-2010, 08:45 PM
ok it screwed up above :scarf:

-----------------------------------

not sure how to take all of the negative talk on this board - sometimes i think it's the over-the-top reaction this board gets to anything TFC or if we really are on a downward spiral

anyroad - we canny compare our prices to EPL - they have other huge revenue from TV to sponsors to stadium size etc. - we're not there yet - i hope someday - it is however realistic to compare to other MLS teams, we do need to be in-line and i really believe we do need to get serious, from a management perspective about producing a product that galvanizes the community.

What worries me more is we have a REALLY good thing going here and i’d hate to see it vanish – i LOVE having a home team to support and look forward to. I don’t care that it's not EPL level yet. I do care that it progresses, little by little, bit by bit, each year....

MLSE needs to be sure it addresses pushing for expanded roster sizes, pursuing quality DP's that attract the broader community and the other things which i think they are doing well like new sophisticated practice facilities, grass at home, expanded stadium and getting into the community with kids programs etc…..

:flare: :canada: :scarf:

Cashcleaner
09-08-2010, 08:50 PM
:facepalm: i thought i established my sarcasm in that comment already.

Too late, man. We're running with it!

By the way, I'm glad BGNewf reposted those EPL tickets prices from mikey. I missed them the first time looking at this thread but now my eyes are wide open. Pookie's numbers paints an even uglier picture when the comparison is made to other MLS clubs.

Disgusting.


DC United - $390
KC - $396
San Jose - $680 (Premium tables at $1,700)
New York - $695 (they do have a $3,000 Club Section but it includes food and parking in the price... more like a Field Table)
New England - $864
LA - $950 (Field Side "Tables" also available at $3,000 each)
Philadelphia - $1,100
FC Dallas - $1,260
Colorado - $1,260
Chivas - - $1,296
Houston - $1,298
Seattle - $1,570
Toronto - $1,903 ($1,672CDN + $300CDN Club Fee)

Brooker
09-08-2010, 09:21 PM
Too late, man. We're running with it!

By the way, I'm glad BGNewf reposted those EPL tickets prices from mikey. I missed them the first time looking at this thread but now my eyes are wide open. Pookie's numbers paints an even uglier picture when the comparison is made to other MLS clubs.

Disgusting.

Completely irrelevent. As stated before, they make the majority of their money off tv and sponsors, something we couldn't dream of... not to mention they also have the luxory of playing in stadiums double, triple, and quadruple our size. While I agree our prices are overpriced when you compared them to other MLS team, you still cannot possibly compare Toronto FC prices with Manure, Arse, and Chelski.

nascarguy
09-08-2010, 10:35 PM
you still cannot possibly compare Toronto FC prices with Manure, Arse, and Chelski.
your right you can compare tfc to chelski & manure. Cause there so much better at being shity then we are !!!!:D

Cristiano14
09-08-2010, 11:07 PM
I am still shocked at that number. United's top seats only cost $1500 CAD? How can that be?

Can someone verify these numbers?

Its cheaper to fly over to england and watch a few games on the weekend a couple times than Renew TFC season tickers at top dollar. Its pretty crazy that you can get a pretty nice trip and arguably the best footy in the world a couple times a year, instead of shelling out more money to see relatively shitty football in your home town.

I love TFC and I will renew this year, but thats an interesting way of putting the ridiculously high prices in perspective.

SilverSamurai
09-09-2010, 12:14 AM
This #'s are crazy...
short of winning the lotto, I doubt I'll ever get seasons...
I'll be content w/ my NCC tix and CCL matches and the odd game here and there. The rest I'll watch on TV.

Roogsy
09-09-2010, 12:24 AM
Completely irrelevent. As stated before, they make the majority of their money off tv and sponsors, something we couldn't dream of... not to mention they also have the luxory of playing in stadiums double, triple, and quadruple our size. While I agree our prices are overpriced when you compared them to other MLS team, you still cannot possibly compare Toronto FC prices with Manure, Arse, and Chelski.

Not irrelevant at all.

By your rationale, if TFC had only built a 10,000 seat stadium, they should be charging $4000 for top end seats. If that were the case, they really would have only built a stadium of that size.

T.Reis
09-09-2010, 05:06 AM
With a family now to think about I'm leaning towards not renewing cuz of certain variables like:

- Traditional increase of ticket prices year after year, and we're not even good yet!
- Getting really hard to get rid of tickets.
- The price of the Carlsburg Cup tickets vs the actual opponent....... ridiculous.
- The sudden ability to just get tickets on gameday now.

- General MLSE "wieselness" like promoting signing up for waiting list to get more access to events (aka - Madrid game) before general public, and then using that # to determine the supply/demand ratio when MANY of those people don't actually want season tickets.

I think I'm more dissapointed then anything else as I like many thought that when I bought these seasons in the first year that they would be in my family forever for my children to enjoy also. However I'm already feeling like MLSE is just taking to much advantage of me and we're not even 5 years into it yet.

Oh well lol!

Brooker
09-09-2010, 05:21 AM
Not irrelevant at all.

By your rationale, if TFC had only built a 10,000 seat stadium, they should be charging $4000 for top end seats. If that were the case, they really would have only built a stadium of that size.

We don't make buckets and buckets and buckets of money from tv deals and sponsors. We don't have millions upon millions of people buying our merchandise worldwide. We make our money through ticket sales.

Are our ticket prices too high? Yeah, some of our tickets are way too high. Do I think they are as outrageous and disgusting as people are making them out to be? Nope.

If Manure United and Chelski's ticket prices are so much better than ours all things considered, why do I constantly hear Stoke fans complaining about paying $80CDN to sit in the corner on away days to those big clubs? Something that costs not even half the price on our most expensive MLS games and those only happen 3 or 4 times a year.

Suds
09-09-2010, 06:33 AM
We don't make buckets and buckets and buckets of money from tv deals and sponsors. We don't have millions upon millions of people buying our merchandise worldwide. We make our money through ticket sales.

Are our ticket prices too high? Yeah, some of our tickets are way too high. Do I think they are as outrageous and disgusting as people are making them out to be? Nope.

If Manure United and Chelski's ticket prices are so much better than ours all things considered, why do I constantly hear Stoke fans complaining about paying $80CDN to sit in the corner on away days to those big clubs? Something that costs not even half the price on our most expensive MLS games and those only happen 3 or 4 times a year.


Generally agree with that statement. However, what I'm hearing from people I talk to is it's not so much the actual dollar amount, it's that they are not seeing the value for what they spend. (If the percieved value is high enough people will spend anything - This is why MLSE perpetuates the myth of the waiting list) If there was really 9,000 people waiting with baited breath to get tickets there would not be a thousand or so tix aorund evey game.

This I hear this more-so when talking to people who carry extra seats to invite friends and family and people who the higher priced seats at BMO. It's many of these people who are telling me they are dumping the extras or looking to downgrade.

menefreghista
09-09-2010, 06:48 AM
We don't make buckets and buckets and buckets of money from tv deals and sponsors. We don't have millions upon millions of people buying our merchandise worldwide. We make our money through ticket sales.

This argument is pure fallacy.

All professional sports teams around the world will charge as much as possible for tickets. The fact that they make boatloads of money on tv or merchandise is irrelevant.

Its about supply and demand. They aren't doing their fans any favours. They will squeeze out every last cent they can.

It appears TFC may have gone overboard on their pricier seats. I think that's fairly plain to see this season.

Hitcho
09-09-2010, 08:21 AM
However, what I'm hearing from people I talk to is it's not so much the actual dollar amount, it's that they are not seeing the value for what they spend.

I think there's a pretty strong contingent of people who are considering walking away just based on dollar amount, or at the very least downgrading. The south end ticket prices will have doubled in four years. That's insane. Quality on the pitch or otherwise, you can't just double the ticket prices every few years and expect people to keep throwing cash at you blindly.

ensco
09-09-2010, 08:26 AM
The Cincinnati Reds are in a pennant race and drawing 14,000 in September. The NFL is seeing 5% overall season ticket sales declines this year.

This problem is way bigger than TFC and MLSE. Ticket prices to professional sports events in North America went insane starting about 10 years ago. The whole system is built for a vanishing corporate buyer.

maninb
09-09-2010, 08:29 AM
This is my prediction:

MLSE will hold the season ticket price flat but do away with the included international friendly, which few seem to value. They'll spin it as listening to the fans re schedule congestion, blah blah blah, but it'll really be a hidden form of price increase. One fewer game for the same price. If they do a friendly, better to try to repeat something like the RM game, which was a big winner (despite how people here felt about it).

I think they'd be insane to force people to buy the MLS Cup game. People would go crazy. And for what? There's no need. The stadium isn't that big.

They'll incent renewals to buy the MLS Cup game, by offering a huge discount (say $50-125 vs Ticketmaster price of $100-250). A lot of people would buy those tickets just to scalp them.

^ I agree...this would seem to be the "sensible" option...but then again we're dealing with MLSE so who the fuck knows??? If Mo is kept on...we're selling our tix we've held since the beginning....

Hitcho
09-09-2010, 08:44 AM
Let's be clear on something guys - I really don't think there is ANY way that MLSE could rope the MLS Cup Final tickets into the season ticket package. Here's why:

1. the fans would be furious at the cash grab, and MLSE would not risk the huge drop in SSH renewals that would likely result.

2. there's a theoretical risk that 15,000+ tickets to the final would be snapped up, leaving a pittance for MLS to dish out to fans of the participating teams and, more importantly, it's corporate and hospitality contingent.

3. related to the above, MLS will want certain blocks of the stadium retained for its own purposes - it's their showpiece event, FIFA do the same at the WC final and UEFA at the ECL final - which means MLSE cannot sell out the cup final tickets based on SSH's regular seats, so the best they could do is offer a priority window to SSH, with no guarantee of getting your regular seats.

4. you basically guarantee a huge block of cup final tickets will go directly into scalper hands, which ordinarily might be a good thing for MLS and MLSE but probably isn't here.

I may be wrong, but based on the above I'd be amazed if MLS allowed this to happen, and I don't think MLSE would fancy it much either. A priority window is far more likely.

Afra
09-09-2010, 09:14 AM
Maybe I am just getting old but the value is going in the opposite direction of the dollar amount - and not in a good way. I am getting tired. Each dollar laid out hurts a little more (my tickets essentially could cover my home and auto insurance - maybe I am a part time supporter but I know which would be my priority). This last season has felt like money pissed away. I don't go down to watch the game - I can do that at home. I don't go down to drink - I can do that at home. I go down to see my fellow RPB's and help out at tailgates and such - stuff I would do if the TFC game wasn't even on.

I will have to think long and hard at renewal and see what they throw at us. I did say 5 years when TFC started up so I will probably try one more season to stick to that. I just don't know if I have the emotional energy to keep it up for longer if things don't improve. I am falling into the worst category of all; I am starting to just not give a shit.

rocker
09-09-2010, 10:29 AM
Maybe I am just getting old but the value is going in the opposite direction of the dollar amount - and not in a good way. I am getting tired. Each dollar laid out hurts a little more (my tickets essentially could cover my home and auto insurance - maybe I am a part time supporter but I know which would be my priority)..

what section are you in?

Section 117
09-09-2010, 10:31 AM
My discussion with my brother regarding our season tickets went like this last year around this time. We are willing to give TFC up to the end of next season to get shit figured out. I believe 5 years to build a COMPETENT and Contending squad was very realistic. Not knowing the shit show Mo was going to give us from year 1-4.

Now going into year 5 if we have to start all over with a new GM a new coach more new players. I have come to the conclusion that I will give them two years max to right this ship. But I must say if MLSE raises the prices for the next two years in a row and i get the same crap soccer then I am done. I don't mind the money being spent, but I want to be entertained. Right now the quality of soccer is on par with the CPSL and the A League or what ever they call it now. Yet I am paying top dollar.

I can't wait till next year to see what Vancouver's pricing will be and then in two years when Montreal comes in as I will bet that their prices will not be as high as our prices are.

rocker
09-09-2010, 10:38 AM
I can't wait till next year to see what Vancouver's pricing will be and then in two years when Montreal comes in as I will bet that their prices will not be as high as our prices are.

But to be fair, you'd have to wait until Vancouver and Montreal are in their 4th season to compare.

Cuz TFC's 1st year prices were lower than the prices now.

Afra
09-09-2010, 10:58 AM
Rocker - I am the first row standing in 109 (row 24).

habstfc
09-09-2010, 11:00 AM
My head is spinning from this thread, where to I begin.

You can't really compare epl prices with tfc for several reasons, the most obvious being the grade 9 supply-demand concept. If man utd. or chelsea or arsenal could charge more money for tickets they would. Obviousy people here will pay prices. The reason places like dallas and colorado and chicago offer free parking or free beer or free hot dogs is cause that's what it takes to put people in the seats. (even then it's not really working) Toronto is easily the biggest socccer market in canada or the u.s., people are willing to pay X amount of money on the mls product, do I think interest is waning, ya a little bit but there are still 20,000 people week in and week out showing up for games.

EPL pricing is something people are a little ignorant about here. England is generally a poorer country than canada with everything from housing to gasoline to food being much higher than over here thus people there have fewer dollars to spend .

Many of the epl teams are in big cities, but many aren't. For every man utd. there is a derby county or a burnley, stoke city, portsmouth, hull city, wigan, you get the picture. These are relatively small cities so it's unfair to think there are millions or hundreds of thousands of people in every epl city , that's simply not true. Less people = less people with money to spend on entertainment, which is what football is essentially. Huge worldwide t.v. contracts subsidize epl, la liga and serie A, ticket sales are a much smaller portion of total revenue than mls. Here it's the reverse with ticket sales being the biggest revenue source.

Some of you guys are saying you can't "give away tickets" to tfc games, I hope that's a figure of speech because I really find that hard to believe. I don't think it's as "sexy or hip" to go to tfc games but it's still a big deal to go to games for most people. If you can't give away tickets in the future PM me I'll either buy them or find you a buyer, I may not give you full price but you won't be stuck with tickets you can't use.

The waiting list is real as far as I'm concerned. I've been on it for over 2 years and in the past 2 december's have never been offered full seasons, and I'm willing to go as high as dark greys.

I do think tickets are a little high but put you "gotta pay to play" as they say.

FootieChick
09-09-2010, 11:06 AM
I know dad isn't dropping seats anytime soon. He, my brother and I all love going to the games. But honestly, I went to bed last night and missed the Fire game, I was exhausted and I'm happy I missed it. Another tie? WTF is up with that?

I honestly say next year, if they don't make the playoffs this year... as supporters, yes we are to support our team. However, to show them how it's effecting us, we shouldn't chant. We should sit and watch the game until there is SIGNIFICANT improvement... or we can try this next game! Just sing Mo must Go and all the other ANTI Mo chants we can think of.

Discouraging for the players - maybe. But I think it might get our point accross.

Oblio2
09-09-2010, 12:48 PM
My head is spinning from this thread, where to I begin.

You can't really compare epl prices with tfc for several reasons, the most obvious being the grade 9 supply-demand concept. If man utd. or chelsea or arsenal could charge more money for tickets they would. Obviousy people here will pay prices. The reason places like dallas and colorado and chicago offer free parking or free beer or free hot dogs is cause that's what it takes to put people in the seats. (even then it's not really working) Toronto is easily the biggest socccer market in canada or the u.s., people are willing to pay X amount of money on the mls product, do I think interest is waning, ya a little bit but there are still 20,000 people week in and week out showing up for games.

EPL pricing is something people are a little ignorant about here. England is generally a poorer country than canada with everything from housing to gasoline to food being much higher than over here thus people there have fewer dollars to spend .

Many of the epl teams are in big cities, but many aren't. For every man utd. there is a derby county or a burnley, stoke city, portsmouth, hull city, wigan, you get the picture. These are relatively small cities so it's unfair to think there are millions or hundreds of thousands of people in every epl city , that's simply not true. Less people = less people with money to spend on entertainment, which is what football is essentially. Huge worldwide t.v. contracts subsidize epl, la liga and serie A, ticket sales are a much smaller portion of total revenue than mls. Here it's the reverse with ticket sales being the biggest revenue source.

Some of you guys are saying you can't "give away tickets" to tfc games, I hope that's a figure of speech because I really find that hard to believe. I don't think it's as "sexy or hip" to go to tfc games but it's still a big deal to go to games for most people. If you can't give away tickets in the future PM me I'll either buy them or find you a buyer, I may not give you full price but you won't be stuck with tickets you can't use.

The waiting list is real as far as I'm concerned. I've been on it for over 2 years and in the past 2 december's have never been offered full seasons, and I'm willing to go as high as dark greys.

I do think tickets are a little high but put you "gotta pay to play" as they say.


Tottenham is on that list and has a 15,000+ waiting list for ST

stugautz
09-09-2010, 01:06 PM
I have been on the waiting list for 3 years, but if they call me up and say they have anything that's not a supporters section, I will turn them down. Judging by the CCL games, the lower priced seats still have steady demand, but the people willing to pay $50 and above per game are becoming a rarer breed.

Huyton
09-09-2010, 01:18 PM
I will not sing or chant anything during the game at the stadium that is anti-TFC. I may mutter under my breath when Garcia takes the field, though.

After the game?

I fully expect Mo to do the right thing and resign at the end of the season as he intimated he would if TFC missed the playoffs.

And I'm really hoping that the scalpers will not see being able to make money from TFC tickets next year (there's huge holes in the crowd at the top of 111 now) and I'll finally be able to get seasons tickets.

I enjoy going to games. I've missed one so far this year due to work commitments, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I guess I just love going to live soccer games...I also have seasons tickets to Milltown FC, and have gone to several of their "away" games, too (there's another tomorrow evening I expect to be at and a home game on Sunday).


So, while there may be a mass exodus away from BMO field, I won't be part of it.

Toronto 'til I die!

Toronto_Bhoy
09-09-2010, 01:18 PM
However, what I'm hearing from people I talk to is it's not so much the actual dollar amount, it's that they are not seeing the value for what they spend.

BINGO!

The key for me is "value". IMO, the quality of football in the League, and specifically TFC, just doesn't add up to $60 a ticket x 4.

Up until now, the experience was worth it (thanks to this mob) but honestly the performance on the pitch just isn't close to what I expect for $4000 a year.

When I see the NHL, NBA or MLB in this market I'm watching the best players in the world…what am I seeing when watching the MLS?

Sorry but that's how I see it…

Fort York Redcoat
09-09-2010, 01:35 PM
BINGO!

The key for me is "value". IMO, the quality of football in the League, and specifically TFC, just doesn't add up to $60 a ticket x 4.

Up until now, the experience was worth it (thanks to this mob) but honestly the performance on the pitch just isn't close to what I expect for $4000 a year.

When I see the NHL, NBA or MLB in this market I'm watching the best players in the world…what am I seeing when watching the MLS?



Oh about the level of play you'd see outside the old firm in the SPL.

Just sayin'

torontocelt
09-09-2010, 04:27 PM
Oh about the level of play you'd see outside the old firm in the SPL.

Just sayin'

You wouldn't have to pay the equivalent of 625 pounds a ticket at other grounds in the spl and I reckon that is about how much he is paying for each of four tfc tickets? That is a rough conversion though. I would imagine most of the grounds would be half of that ie 310 pounds per ticket, it is a guess though...

Here is a link for Hearts in Scotland. They have a similar sized stadium and as you see their prices are a lot better spaced out than TFC. I would take the uk pound price and times by 1.6 I think to get the Canadian dollar price. That means the top tickets are only $680 whereas the lowest is $416 for an adult. Notice also the prices for under 12's, 25 pounds for a year for all but the platinum seats, that is $40 CAD for all of the games in the entire year!

Their neighbours hibs I think are cheaper than Hearts and the others in the league will be cheaper again.

See page 4.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/db/4b/0,,10289~150491,00.pdf

Through TV money hearts get a share of 1m pounds a year, that is split between all of the premier clubs, there are 12.

Most people here I think will be weighing up whether it is wise to buy their season for another year and really it all boils down to how cheap a section you are in and how much money you have to spare. Is a south end priced ticket worth it, I would say yes. Is dark grey or anything above worth it, I would say no.

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2010, 06:49 AM
^Yep I'm sure they'll be people "downgrading" their section to get a more economical ticket (but don't most do that anyway? trying to get to the bunker?) but my comment was more concentrating on level of play we watch.

But you probably knew that celt.

The question I ask to all who give up their tix would be now that you aren't getting any live footie would any of you buy seasons to a lesser league that would give you more "value"?

Will most of you become stay-at-home-fans or would you get Accies seasons?

I don't expect many takers on this one...

supersaint
09-10-2010, 09:56 AM
^Yep I'm sure they'll be people "downgrading" their section to get a more economical ticket (but don't most do that anyway? trying to get to the bunker?) but my comment was more concentrating on level of play we watch.

But you probably knew that celt.

The question I ask to all who give up their tix would be now that you aren't getting any live footie would any of you buy seasons to a lesser league that would give you more "value"?

Will most of you become stay-at-home-fans or would you get Accies seasons?

I don't expect many takers on this one...
If I do not renew my tix I would still go to some games through the season but I would be a lot more selective, as we all know, this season has seen the start of being able to get tickets very easily for games. I would not be going to see a friendly with our reserves playing the likes of Bolton, I would not be going to a Cup tie against Montreal or Vancouver if it is meaningless and once again we play our second string guys. I would not be going to games late in the season if it is pissing rain and we are out of the playoff hunt. But yeah, I will go catch the boys playing LA, NY, Real Salt Lake, or whatever other game takes my fancy. I will certainly still watch most other games on tv. I am an older guy, who takes his daughter, grandsons etc to the games, and this year it has sometimes been difficult to use all four of my tickets, we are from Scotland and the piss off is that my brother who is football mad, and a couple of my mates at the club who follow EPL , will not even come down for free with me, cos they have been so turned off by what they see on tv.
I would have no interest in seats behind the south goal. Although you lads are the most passionate, you still account for a minority of the teams support, and a fraction of the season ticket income, although you probably help MLSE more through the concessions than we do. I must admit I never entertained giving up my tickets until this season, when I have just been really turned off by the style of play. With this being a World Cup year, we had a real opportunity to turn on the casuals to our team, and I believe we have blown that chance.

Fort York Redcoat
09-10-2010, 10:17 AM
So are we saying next year will be the first year TFC won't sellout of seasons? Cause that's all it is. This year drop in attendance is just that. Attendance already payed for. And as much as I don't believe the 15k number of waiting list for seasons there are still enough people that never have had them that will give them a go and buy them up.

Like SS said we're a minority here. The loud but very few here that give up their tickets will not effect the TFC's season ticket sales.

Suds
09-10-2010, 10:35 AM
So are we saying next year will be the first year TFC won't sellout of seasons? Cause that's all it is. This year drop in attendance is just that. Attendance already payed for. And as much as I don't believe the 15k number of waiting list for seasons there are still enough people that never have had them that will give them a go and buy them up.

Like SS said we're a minority here. The loud but very few here that give up their tickets will not effect the TFC's season ticket sales.

I think TFC will still sell out of their allotment of season seats next year. I believe there is enough demand on the waiting list buy up whatever is not renewed.

My concern is why people are deciding to drop extra seats or not renew? For some it's the cost, for others it's the perceived value for the cost, for some it's the quality, etc. There are a number of reasons someone may not renew but what is TFC doing to counter that? I don't like hearing that fans dropping off and turning away. I'm a fan and want TFC to succeed.

I'm not in the camp of dropping my tickets all together. But I am seriously thinking about dropping the extra seats I buy to bring friends and family to the game. I know many supporters buy extra seats to help promote TFC and the game. That's why I buy them. This is one area I think TFC has missed the boat with this type of promotion of TFC we supporters do.

If people are loosing interest and there are tons of tickets available on game day I just don't see the point of me forking out the extra cash up front. I think this is an area TFC could get creative with current SSH's.

reggie
09-10-2010, 10:45 AM
at the end of the day...i just want to be entertained,i find myself looking into stands more then the field,the futbol this season has been brutal,i call it midfield pingpong no wide play at all.
i share 6 ST,we are going down to 2.
mlse better not jack up the prices or else!!!

Roogsy
09-10-2010, 10:53 AM
You can't really compare epl prices with tfc for several reasons, the most obvious being the grade 9 supply-demand concept. If man utd. or chelsea or arsenal could charge more money for tickets they would. Obviousy people here will pay prices. The reason places like dallas and colorado and chicago offer free parking or free beer or free hot dogs is cause that's what it takes to put people in the seats. (even then it's not really working) Toronto is easily the biggest socccer market in canada or the u.s., people are willing to pay X amount of money on the mls product, do I think interest is waning, ya a little bit but there are still 20,000 people week in and week out showing up for games.

Something you learn after grade 9 economics is that there are other variable and factors that go into play. Elasticity, lag etc.

In the case of TFC, the demand is being created not only by the concept of professional soccer but also because of the atmosphere. As the atmosphere dies so will the demand. Therefore, one of the considerations for the team must be to keep it's "entertainers" happy. Those entertainers are not only the professional soccer players but the supporters groups and individuals who have made BMO Field the place to be. Without that atmosphere, there is no way they have a "waiting list" of 15,000.

The other consideration is the lag effect. Current Ticket Holders will hold on to their seats until the very end, when they can no longer endure any longer to the ineptitude this team has shown. However, once they drop those tickets, "supply and demand" created by a more successful product on the pitch will not influence whether they come back sooner rather than later because of the "once bitten twice shy" factor.

Theory always sounds simpler than what actually happens in practice.

werewolf
09-11-2010, 03:19 PM
East stands are looking thin...

Davenport
09-11-2010, 05:13 PM
I'm not paying again until the product on the pitch improves.

Bars92
09-11-2010, 05:47 PM
gonna be some cheap tickets next year.

redcard
09-11-2010, 05:48 PM
honeymoon is officially over...time to focus on the CCL and get some respect back!

nfitz
09-11-2010, 06:11 PM
gonna be some cheap tickets next year.We hear this every year at this time.. Last year it was the same thing; yet renewal was 95%. And attendance is up again this year. What a paradox ...

supersaint
09-11-2010, 06:13 PM
We hear this every year at this time.. Last year it was the same thing; yet renewal was 95%. And attendance is up again this year. What a paradox ...

So in otherwords, there is nothing to worry about, everything is just friggin Peachy

T0R0NT0 FC
09-11-2010, 06:25 PM
Attendance is up because they added another 1,200 seats. Simple.

menefreghista
09-11-2010, 06:57 PM
We hear this every year at this time.. Last year it was the same thing; yet renewal was 95%. And attendance is up again this year. What a paradox ...

That's not true. Last season we were in it past the season ticket renewal date.

This year is a different story. We are pretty much eliminated before they have even sent out the mailer.

redcard
09-11-2010, 07:04 PM
we may not be out just yet....chicago lost to the union...mo lives another day?

menefreghista
09-11-2010, 07:15 PM
we may not be out just yet....chicago lost to the union...mo lives another day?

The Chicago result is irrelevant. Its what San Jose, Seattle and to a lesser extent KC do that matters.

redcard
09-11-2010, 07:45 PM
The Chicago result is irrelevant. Its what San Jose, Seattle and to a lesser extent KC do that matters.

absolutely those above us need to lose today but a chicago win today would have passed us...so they are just as relevant...

kc and san jose need to lose - best case senerio!

Chevy
09-11-2010, 07:54 PM
I can't believe we're talking about playoff scenarios.

brad
09-11-2010, 08:26 PM
We hear this every year at this time.. Last year it was the same thing; yet renewal was 95%. And attendance is up again this year. What a paradox ...

Except this year the stadium has been far more empty. The overall vibe around the place is just not the same. The casual fan is losing interest in this team.

I expect renewals to be down this year.

Pookie
09-11-2010, 08:29 PM
^ me too

They made reference to a train being late or something on the broadcast to explain empty seats.

We talk about scalpers and prawny seats but 114 - 119 were clearly sparsely populated with folks sitting down well into the first half. This is more than a train.

People may have paid for the tickets but if they choosing not to go that's an issue. Further, if they are getting stuck with seats they can't resell, even at below cost... that's a bigger issue.

Pachuco
09-11-2010, 08:38 PM
I got a random call from my ticket rep a few weeks ago asking me if I could try and get a group together through my company for a Champions League game. No joke. This is the state we are at.

nfitz
09-11-2010, 08:43 PM
So in otherwords, there is nothing to worry about, everything is just friggin Peachy??? We just got all but eliminated today ... you think things are peachy?

I don't think that means that renewals are going to be lower than 90-something percent.

Azerban
09-11-2010, 09:12 PM
??? We just got all but eliminated today ... you think things are peachy?

i think you have poor reading comprehension

TFCtoMUFC
09-11-2010, 09:16 PM
i think you have poor reading comprehension

I agree. I thought they taught sarcasm in like 5th grade.

Bars92
09-11-2010, 09:20 PM
We hear this every year at this time.. Last year it was the same thing; yet renewal was 95%. And attendance is up again this year. What a paradox ...

This year wasn't like the first two years where scalpers were charging a huge mark-up. This year I regularly heard "buy two - get four free!" from scalpers, although I myself regularly paid $40 for $26 tickets in the south end. Next year it'll be so easy to get cheap tickets from scalpers.

KiwiRedsFan
09-12-2010, 01:26 AM
If I was living in Canada, I would love to be a season pass holder. Keep supporting your team, they need you.

DichioTFC
09-12-2010, 01:28 AM
Anyone who thinks the ticket sales would be significantly less next year because of what happens on the pitch this year is really fooling themselves.

Small drop, sure. But nothing that will take the dollar sign out of ML$E

London
09-12-2010, 07:06 AM
This year wasn't like the first two years where scalpers were charging a huge mark-up. This year I regularly heard "buy two - get four free!" from scalpers, although I myself regularly paid $40 for $26 tickets in the south end. Next year it'll be so easy to get cheap tickets from scalpers.

nothing will ever top the montreal game, buy 1 and get 7 free!!!

now that is a ticket market i like!!!!

nfitz
09-12-2010, 10:13 AM
i think you have poor reading comprehensionUmm .... I'm well aware of what the previous poster meant ... ironically it was his poor reading comprehension I was making fun of.

nfitz
09-12-2010, 10:15 AM
If I was living in Canada, I would love to be a season pass holder. Keep supporting your team, they need you.Hey, I live in Canada and I'd love to be a season pass holder! The best they'd offer me this year was a single in red.

nobuzz
09-12-2010, 10:37 AM
The important thing to remember when contacted by your ticket rep about renewals or buying new seasons is to let them know is that you can buy tickets now up to kick off and the existing tickets you have can't even be given away sometimes.

Ask them what the incentive is to buy seasons when the option to buy tickets is always there.

I will be asking them what value am I getting from having partial packs? I have been on the gold list since they announced it and still haven't been offered anything for seasons that I want. I can get a partial pack in a supporters section and then pick up other games that I want or I can pay $750 a seat for seasons.

It would be one thing if I was in Toronto but I drive from London with a couple of other people and the investment of time and money is becoming less and less appealing. One of the people has even said that he is going to be spending money going on a trip and will probably not want tickets.

I feel that my money may be better spent elsewhere and the ticket reps need to hear this. I may even pass on partials this year and just pick up games for what I really want to see, the tickets are too easy to come by now that there is not the demand.

I mean the last couple of times I have gone I only see one or two scalpers compared to about twelve during the first couple of years.

The value for my money is just not there anymore, I will still support the team, but my purchases will reflect things. I am down from buying a couple of jerseys a year and 2 beers a game plus food to buying one scarf this year, not drinking at games and eating before I leave so I am not hungry there. Even with the reduced money I spend it still seems like a large cost, I have a limited amount of money to spend on entertainment and this is slowly becoming one of the expenses that will be cut.

They will need to do something special to have me buy partial packs this year and something amazing to have me consider buying seasons.

nfitz
09-12-2010, 10:54 AM
Ask them what the incentive is to buy seasons when the option to buy tickets is always there.The incentive is price. If you buy the 10 non-premium games, the 5 premium games, and the 2 Voyageurs Cup games in Yellow at the gate (if you can get them) it costs $643.75; this doesn't include the Carlsberg Cup, which puts it over $700. If you had a season ticket package it only cost $323. That's a huge incentive.

nobuzz
09-12-2010, 11:29 AM
ok, I guess the statment should have been better put as:

where is the incentive to buy $750+ season tickets (which is what I was offered last time to me and my appointment was the first day) when I can buy tickets from here or other supporters groups for pretty much any game I want and often find people selling at a discount?

nfitz
09-12-2010, 01:18 PM
where is the incentive to buy $750+ season tickets (which is what I was offered last time to me and my appointment was the first day) when I can buy tickets from here or other supporters groups for pretty much any game I want and often find people selling at a discount?On any individual season, not much (and I'm in the same boat ... though I must be further down Gold list, the offer I got was $1300 season tickets; I'd happily take $750 ...).

In the long-term the incentive is that you can shift to light-grey and yellow in future seasons and pay less.

Though if you want to sit in medium-grey, the season ticket is still a bargain over singles or partials.

habstfc
09-12-2010, 04:44 PM
To have season seats the main incentive is cost, but to me it would be knowing where you're going to be sitting for every game, although I am not a STH yet, I have the opportunity to sit all over the stadium, so if I am offered tickets I know the seats in every corner of the stadium and what they are like.

nfitz
09-12-2010, 07:25 PM
Personally I've enjoyed sitting all over the stadium. It's let me get to know the place quite well. It's something I'll miss if I get seasons ... which I plan to do.

ArmenJBX
09-12-2010, 07:32 PM
My favorite section so far has been 119. Don't know why, just is.

I hope that I can actually find season tickets this year, even though we're watching some shitty soccer.

jazzy
09-12-2010, 11:33 PM
I expect the full spin to be put on a possible final including possibly Beckham and possibly Henry. Renew your tickets as your only way to secure the cup final ticket. I expect sleazy desperate tactics to try and hook the people with more expensive seats in for one more year.

They have to come up with something of course, They'll sign some big ass name that won't help in the team aspect of course.....they'll have to have a huge spin.....god knows what imagination brings and we swallow...again..they are HAVE to spend money......but I see rising prices and signing someone BIG....it'll of course work

nascarguy
09-12-2010, 11:50 PM
They have to come up with something of course, They'll sign some big ass name that won't help in the team aspect of course.....they'll have to have a huge spin.....god knows what imagination brings and we swallow...again..they are HAVE to spend money......but I see rising prices and signing someone BIG....it'll of course work
they better do it before I pay that 20% down-payment

jazzy
09-12-2010, 11:55 PM
I guarantee MLSE will market the final to us as possibly having a Beckham vs Henry matchup just to get people renewing, even though it may very well end up being Columbus vs San Jose.

ahahahah........please make this the end of the pain

jazzy
09-13-2010, 12:07 AM
I found all the feedback on my thread really interesting. For me, with my sec 106 seats, it is the football mainly that has me seriously questioning whether or not I renew. The cost is a pain, but I could live with that if I was getting to watch good entertaining football. I just cannot stand the type of football that Preki has our boys playing. It is all about working hard, but while I admit every team needs grafters, it also needs some creativity up front. Dont tell me we cant expect that in MLS. I really enjoy the football that Real Salt Lake, NY RedBull, Seattle and LA play, to name a few.
His tactics upfront are nonexistent, he CANNOT manage skill players, and he doesnt seem to be able to improve the game of youngsters. I see no improvement in White, Ibrahim, Sanyang etc, no development. I cannot stand listening to Preki in interviews. In my view he is mainly the reason for the demise this season over last. So in that regard I blame Mo also, for hiring him.
I do resent having to buy friendly tickets to watch such dud games as Pachuca, Estudiantes, River Plate etc. and also Voyageur Cup matches.
So my big issue is the fact that I really dont wanna pay over 3600 bucks for four seats to watch a team coached by Preki. He will NEVER win an MLS cup for any team, and you can take that to the bank!

well put

KiwiRedsFan
09-13-2010, 05:46 AM
It costs $3,600 for 4 season tickets?? My god, that is bloody expensive! Does that money go to MLSE or the MLS?

Dbl_D
09-13-2010, 09:54 AM
You are completely correct IMO.

IMO, if they want to turn this around they should adopt the Section 110 model throughout the stadium. Make rows 20 through 33 of the 100's Supporter's Sections. Allow people to stand, bring their flags, organize chants and do what have made going to a TFC game so famous.

Rows 1-19 could be done a little nicer. Perhaps some more comfy seating in certain areas. Perhaps you charge a little more for being close to the centre line if you must but let's not get stupid about it.



dont mind the 20 -33 idea no v'vuzla's ;)

I already pay a fortune at the center line, don't be making me pay more...

and to get popcorn thrown at me and yelled at at most friendlies/ccl games for cheering for the TFC, you should be paying me for taking one for the team for those games:scarf:... ;)

Fort York Redcoat
09-13-2010, 10:04 AM
I got a random call from my ticket rep a few weeks ago asking me if I could try and get a group together through my company for a Champions League game. No joke. This is the state we are at.

The state we are at is in the Champions league for the first time and casuals don't see why thay would want to go. Mind boggling.

TFC OZZ
09-13-2010, 10:05 AM
I've made this point already but it's worth repeating I think. There are a lot of people who are starting to fall into the bracket of "want to keep my seats but cannot afford to if this racket keeps up". This isn;t resentment at anything TFC or MLSE related, it's a simple cost issue. South end seats in year 1 were about $200. We're on course for more like $500 in a span of about 5 years. That is quite simply madness. Losing team or MLS Cup winning team, a lot of people just cannot keep up with the constant price hikes, or can but are finding it harder and harder to justify.

That's the situation I'm facing. I've got two in 123 and two in 117, and I can barely continue to pay for my seats at this rate, let alone any higher.

Pachuco
09-13-2010, 10:10 AM
The state we are at is in the Champions league for the first time and casuals don't see why thay would want to go. Mind boggling.

It isn't mind boggling at all. Most casuals don't even understand that TFC competes in a second cup at the same time as the MLS cup. Canadians just aren't accustomed to this whole concept of competing for an additional cup other then the league. I recently took a friend to a champions league match game and I had to explain the entire thing to him. In the end he still said I don't get it, NHL, NFL, NBA, MLS all play for the cup and that winner is determined through playoffs.

So while Champions League may mean something to the hard core, it doesn't mean squat to the casuals. Casuals care about playoffs, and then the trophy given to the winner of the playoffs.

This is exactly why I've said all along that if TFC wants to grow the sport in Toronto right now it is way more important to concentrate on the playoffs then it is to concentrate on the Champions League.

We could go on and win the Champions League this year, fact of the matter is most casuals will remember the fact we didn't make the playoffs. Therefore, we'll probably still suck in most people's minds.

MKR
09-13-2010, 10:26 AM
actually i would say the reason people don't care about CONCACRAP champions league isn't because they don't understand the concept. It's just because nobody cares about the north american champions league as in it is small potatoes. UEFA champions league is immensly popular here in toronto and to say people don't understand the concept of multiple competitions in one season is an exageration.

I mean who cares about Puerto Rico Islanders, Joe Public and so on. Oustide of a couple of Mexican teams,these names mean nothing. just watching that last match and seeing a stadium with a couple hundred people in attendance made me laugh. Ooooohh concacrap champions league. how prestigeous!

Wull
09-13-2010, 11:03 AM
It isn't mind boggling at all. Most casuals don't even understand that TFC competes in a second cup at the same time as the MLS cup. Canadians just aren't accustomed to this whole concept of competing for an additional cup other then the league. I recently took a friend to a champions league match game and I had to explain the entire thing to him. In the end he still said I don't get it, NHL, NFL, NBA, MLS all play for the cup and that winner is determined through playoffs.

So while Champions League may mean something to the hard core, it doesn't mean squat to the casuals. Casuals care about playoffs, and then the trophy given to the winner of the playoffs.

This is exactly why I've said all along that if TFC wants to grow the sport in Toronto right now it is way more important to concentrate on the playoffs then it is to concentrate on the Champions League.

We could go on and win the Champions League this year, fact of the matter is most casuals will remember the fact we didn't make the playoffs. Therefore, we'll probably still suck in most people's minds.

I'm a hardcore and it doesn't mean shit to me. It's a piss-poor tournament run by snake oil salesmen and officiated by crooks! We don't gain a lot from it, there's next to no prestige (I keep having to explain to people both here and in Europe that we're not playing in the European Champions League) and not many teams actually care about the world club championship when they get there. I'll be at the games come hell or high water but all it's doing is jamming up our fixture list and creating endless frustration for both the players having to deal with the antics of the opposition and referees and us for the same thing plus preki's acid-induced line-ups!

P-NUTZ
09-13-2010, 11:14 AM
renew? myself and several other STH's can't even give away a seat for this lot.

No winning = no care = no good.

Fort York Redcoat
09-13-2010, 11:30 AM
It isn't mind boggling at all. Most casuals don't even understand that TFC competes in a second cup at the same time as the MLS cup. Canadians just aren't accustomed to this whole concept of competing for an additional cup other then the league. I recently took a friend to a champions league match game and I had to explain the entire thing to him. In the end he still said I don't get it, NHL, NFL, NBA, MLS all play for the cup and that winner is determined through playoffs.

So while Champions League may mean something to the hard core, it doesn't mean squat to the casuals. Casuals care about playoffs, and then the trophy given to the winner of the playoffs.

This is exactly why I've said all along that if TFC wants to grow the sport in Toronto right now it is way more important to concentrate on the playoffs then it is to concentrate on the Champions League.

We could go on and win the Champions League this year, fact of the matter is most casuals will remember the fact we didn't make the playoffs. Therefore, we'll probably still suck in most people's minds.

Granted. I understand the NA mentality but worrying about getting casuals to the game is MLSE's marketing problem not mine. I want the team, the league to grow the CCL. It's the only attachment we have to the world game at club level.