And Now On To Preki

[bgnewf]

And Now On To Preki

First Mo Johnston yesterday and now Preki today. Why I feel Preki should stick around for 2011.

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/09/and-now-on-to-preki/

Comments always welcome

[__wowza]

being a preki "supporter" (if that's the term i can apply to people not jumping down his throat just yet) i honestly love the article. well done!

[Wull]

I hope they're both gone at the end of the season regardless of any success from now until the end of the season

[Roogsy]

I can't agree with the blog mate.

Preki is not a bad coach. I never said he was. But I don't particuarly see him as a good coach let alone a great one. Preki will never lead this team to any sort of real success or glory. And that is what I am looking for from TFC. Therefore, I will not support keeping Preki around after this season.

Yes it's true, Preki has shown he can get decent results from less talent. But what Preki has never been able to show is to be able to generate great results from a talented squad. In fact, there is the belief in many corners that he isn't even able to work with talented players which is why he prefers to work with plumbers and grinders.

[bgnewf]

I can't agree with the blog mate.

Preki is not a bad coach. I never said he was. But I don't particuarly see him as a good coach let alone a great one. Preki will never lead this team to any sort of real success or glory. And that is what I am looking for from TFC. Therefore, I will not support keeping Preki around after this season.

Always appreciate hearing/reading what you have to say. My point, more than anything else is that although not the absolute ideal scenario, keeping him around for one more year makes some sense. Five coaches in five years is a pretty horrible statement to the lack of stability in what should be one of the flagship franchises in this league if he gets the boot.

[Wull]

Always appreciate hearing/reading what you have to say. My point, more than anything else is that although not the absolute ideal scenario, keeping him around for one more year makes some sense. Five coaches in five years is a pretty horrible statement to the lack of stability in what should be one of the flagship franchises in this league.

Yes but if we're starting, start fresh and get everything in place for a more long-term platform. who's to say the new GM and Preki would get along? He doesn't seem to get on well with many players, media, officials etc.

[Shakes McQueen]

Always appreciate hearing/reading what you have to say. My point, more than anything else is that although not the absolute ideal scenario, keeping him around for one more year makes some sense. Five coaches in five years is a pretty horrible statement to the lack of stability in what should be one of the flagship franchises in this league if he gets the boot.

This is essentially my position, while I can relate to some of the complaints Roogsy mentions above.

However, I have one big caveat:

I support getting rid of Mo, and I also support giving the new GM the right to hire his own coach, if he so chooses. If that means Preki goes, then so be it. It wouldn't be right to hire a GM, and then force him to be saddled with the previous coach if he wanted to hire his own guy.

I think Preki deserves a shot with a better GM at the helm, but only if that GM will have him, essentially.

- Scott

[bgnewf]

Yes but if we're starting, start fresh and get everything in place for a more long-term platform. who's to say the new GM and Preki would get along? He doesn't seem to get on well with many players, media, officials etc.

Due respect, but this "fuck it all... we suck... blow it all up" approach means that other than the date of inception of the club, in just about every other category Toronto FC on the field in 2011 would still be an expansion team.

Yes it sucks today that we are on the outside looking on the playoffs. But as I wrote on the blog did you or for that matter many of us think we would be in the position we are in on September 1st (close to the playoffs, Voyageurs Cup Winners and in the Champions League group stage) back in March?

Me thinks memories are shorter then they should be around here.

[pekduck]

This is essentially my position, while I can relate to some of the complaints Roogsy mentions above.

However, I have one big caveat:

I support getting rid of Mo, and I also support giving the new GM the right to hire his own coach, if he so chooses. If that means Preki goes, then so be it. It wouldn't be right to hire a GM, and then force him to be saddled with the previous coach if he wanted to hire his own guy.

I think Preki deserves a shot with a better GM at the helm, but only if that GM will have him, essentially.

- Scott

Well said. This I agree with.

[Roogsy]

Always appreciate hearing/reading what you have to say. My point, more than anything else is that although not the absolute ideal scenario, keeping him around for one more year makes some sense. Five coaches in five years is a pretty horrible statement to the lack of stability in what should be one of the flagship franchises in this league if he gets the boot.


I certainly can sympathize with the sentiment. I too am tired of the revolving door at TFC (of mostly players but coaches too) and would like to see it end. However, the position of coach, and in Preki's case one that has so much say in the composition of the squad, is one that has a positive or detrimental effect on the team far beyond the years that any particular coach has at the helm. Whenever Preki leaves, his contracts and players will remain affecting TFC's roster (and therefore our results) well past his exit and thus his remaining in place should only depend on one thing: Is he the right guy for the job? Leaving him in place should only happen if the answer is "yes" regardless if it looks bad on the team to replace yet another coach if the answer is "no".

[Wull]

Due respect, but this "fuck it all... we suck... blow it all up" approach means that other than the date of inception of the club, in just about every other category Toronto FC on the field in 2011 would still be an expansion team.

Yes it sucks today that we are on the outside looking on the playoffs. But as I wrote on the blog did you or for that matter many of us think we would be in the position we are in on September 1st (close to the playoffs, Voyageurs Cup Winners and in the Champions League group stage) back in March?

Me thinks memories are shorter then they should be around here.

It's not a fuck it all approach. I said last season, the squad needed SOME tinkering and a coach who wanted to be here long term. I thought Preki was the wrong move at the time, still do.

I will admit he's gotten more out of this group than I thought they could produce at some points but he's at least partly responsible for the guys we brought in and got rid of and some of the absolute crap we've had to endure at various points such as seeing a kid substituted after 30 minutes of our most important game of the season at that time and some of the mind boggling line ups at away games where we should have been in with a shout of getting something.

Did I fear we'd be in worse shape at the start of this season than we currently are? Somewhat. I figured we'd give away less goals, score less, so be around where we are. I didn't expect highlights such as Cruz Azul or Motagua but I equally didn't expect to bring peterson on in place of Mista when we needed goals against new york. We have a good enough core of players to build around (Frei, Attakora, DeRo, Santos, Cann etc.) without being "we suck, blow it all up" but I thought that last season too until Preki started falling out with people or chasing others away from the club before getting here.

[ensco]

It would be classic MLSE to search for a new GM with the coaching position already filled. It's a rare occurrence in general, but somehow the Leafs and Raptors have done this five times in 10 years.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

If MO GO's.....That means a new man is coming in to run the team....most likely will want to put his stamp on the team...meaning Preki could be oout of a job too!

[Blizzard]

If MO GO's.....That means a new man is coming in to run the team....most likely will want to put his stamp on the team...meaning Preki could be oout of a job too!

Oh and wouldn't that be such a shame. :rolleyes:

[v00d00daddy]

This is essentially my position, while I can relate to some of the complaints Roogsy mentions above.

However, I have one big caveat:

I support getting rid of Mo, and I also support giving the new GM the right to hire his own coach, if he so chooses. If that means Preki goes, then so be it. It wouldn't be right to hire a GM, and then force him to be saddled with the previous coach if he wanted to hire his own guy.

I think Preki deserves a shot with a better GM at the helm, but only if that GM will have him, essentially.

- Scott

Perfectly said. I agree.

[ilikemusic]

This is essentially my position, while I can relate to some of the complaints Roogsy mentions above.

However, I have one big caveat:

I support getting rid of Mo, and I also support giving the new GM the right to hire his own coach, if he so chooses. If that means Preki goes, then so be it. It wouldn't be right to hire a GM, and then force him to be saddled with the previous coach if he wanted to hire his own guy.

I think Preki deserves a shot with a better GM at the helm, but only if that GM will have him, essentially.

- Scott

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about Preki.

If the new GM doesnt like him then he would have every right to give him the boot, but I dont think Preki deserves to lose his job after only one season. Even John Carver got to start a second season!

Saying that, to be honest, so long as Mo Johnston is the first person to get fired I will be satiated.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

If MO GO's.....That means a new man is coming in to run the team....most likely will want to put his stamp on the team...meaning Preki could be oout of a job too!


Oh and wouldn't that be such a shame. :rolleyes:

basically like every other year.....

season 5 will be a rebuilding year....

nothing new to us!:drinking:

[Ossington Mental Youth]

id like to see Preki at the helm for one more year, clearing out the rest of Mo's doing. Then if theres still no improvements go ahead fire him but as of right now its too damn soon.

[manic.street.preacher]

Isn't Jimmy B the 'assistant director of soccer'? Or whatever made-up title he's got ... Is there any chance he'd take over if Mo goes? I don't know that I'd be in favour of that

[denime]

id like to see Preki at the helm for one more year, clearing out the rest of Mo's doing. Then if theres still no improvements go ahead fire him but as of right now its too damn soon.

Agree 100% :iagree:

[JuliquE]

I certainly can sympathize with the sentiment. I too am tired of the revolving door at TFC (of mostly players but coaches too) and would like to see it end. However, the position of coach, and in Preki's case one that has so much say in the composition of the squad, is one that has a positive or detrimental effect on the team far beyond the years that any particular coach has at the helm. Whenever Preki leaves, his contracts and players will remain affecting TFC's roster (and therefore our results) well past his exit and thus his remaining in place should only depend on one thing: Is he the right guy for the job? Leaving him in place should only happen if the answer is "yes" regardless if it looks bad on the team to replace yet another coach if the answer is "no".
You may be at a vantage to form an opinion.. but to JUDGE whether he's the RIGHT guy, moving forward -- no.

At the start of the season, with the mess Mo had left, we expected to be rebuilding and playoffs weren't even a part of the discussion. As bgnewf points out, people seem to have short or selective memory, at times.

Let's not just throw a damn fire sale, at the end of every season. Lose Mo, first -- have a proper look at where we're at with Preki, come mid-season (2011).

Tschüss.

[Section 117]

IMO Preki is a average coach period. He can get your team to the playoffs, but due to the system that he chooses to play that is it. Look at his time at Chivas got them to the playoffs and then out in the first round.

Preki's problem' from people who are around the squad are the following:

Control freak - runs practice from start to finish uses his assistants vey rarely

[Section 117]

Sorry hit the wrong button. cont from previous post:

Training technique - cares a lot about physical conditioning runs the players ragged in practice from day one. (I understand in the pre season but in the season I think this should not be done)

Lack of practice in final third - 95% practice I was told was either conditioning or defensive postioning, no real direction is given to the players in the final third - this quite noticeable if you watch the team.

Style of play - Preki wants a defensive system first and pressure up top. Problem with this is this style of soccer is almost as fun as watching paint dry. It will be able to make the palyoffs but more than that won't work as in a league with parity you need players to have the freedom for their individual talents to break through.

Qualities he looks for in players - Preki doesn't want DP or players with extremly high salaries for this league due to his system. He wants players who make between $100k - $200K a year that are interchangable. He favours hard work over skill.

[Globetrotter]

how many people bitch about 4 coaches in 4 seasons yet they are barking for preki's head now? If these complainers had their way, we'd already have gone through 19 coaches in 4 seasons. They must be so happy that the internet exists so they can complain to a listening audience.

[Roogsy]

Section 117 has hit the nail on the head.

[menefreghista]

how many people bitch about 4 coaches in 4 seasons yet they are barking for preki's head now? If these complainers had their way, we'd already have gone through 19 coaches in 4 seasons. They must be so happy that the internet exists so they can complain to a listening audience.

The flipside is this: what do the people defending Preki see him building? Because I don't see him building anything. Next year will be more of the same.

[Globetrotter]

^we know what he's doing, and he's done it for years. we've discussed it already in this thread. we knew before he came in how he operates, he is doing that now, he will likely do that in the future. it's all been laid out for a very long time.

[Roogsy]

Yes...his past certainly does point to what we should expect.

Hence the reason people don't want him around.

[Pachuco]

This is essentially my position, while I can relate to some of the complaints Roogsy mentions above.

However, I have one big caveat:

I support getting rid of Mo, and I also support giving the new GM the right to hire his own coach, if he so chooses. If that means Preki goes, then so be it. It wouldn't be right to hire a GM, and then force him to be saddled with the previous coach if he wanted to hire his own guy.

I think Preki deserves a shot with a better GM at the helm, but only if that GM will have him, essentially.

- Scott

This is a good approach. I think this is the way I lean as well. Just with the difference that I have no confidence in Preki, but if we got a GM (who is actually qualified) and he decides Preki is the best we can get and he wants to work with him then I would support that.

Havind said that, if it's Jimmy B who becomes GM (This organization has done crazier things) and he wants to work with Preki then no, not down with that. That would be more of the same we've seen this year.

[menefreghista]

^we know what he's doing, and he's done it for years. we've discussed it already in this thread. we knew before he came in how he operates, he is doing that now, he will likely do that in the future. it's all been laid out for a very long time.

So we're content having a team that battles for 8th place each season?

Because based on Preki's track record and our player signings that seems to be our destiny.

[Pachuco]

^we know what he's doing, and he's done it for years. we've discussed it already in this thread. we knew before he came in how he operates, he is doing that now, he will likely do that in the future. it's all been laid out for a very long time.

This argument really isn't helping you out man.

[Section 117]

I want to sate I don't think Preki should be canned yet.... I don't think that he will change his style of coaching.

I say keep him for a year or two more and then revealuate where the team is going and them make a decision on what do with him.

In respect to a new GM if MLSE hires Jimmy as the next GM I will give up my tickets because I will not support a team emotionally or financially if he is put in a GM. He lacks experience and he would be just as bad if not worse than Mo. IMO that would be a huge slap in the face to all of us and shows that they really don't give a rats ass about the product on the field.

This off season is going to be a watershed moment for TFC if they don't get the ass in gear by getting rid of Mo and improving the product on the field there is going to be a lot more empty seats and our tag as the model franchise will go down drain just like our playoff hopes every year in the summer

[Steve]

I want to sate I don't think Preki should be canned yet.... I don't think that he will change his style of coaching.

I say keep him for a year or two more and then revealuate where the team is going and them make a decision on what do with him.

In respect to a new GM if MLSE hires Jimmy as the next GM I will give up my tickets because I will not support a team emotionally or financially if he is put in a GM. He lacks experience and he would be just as bad if not worse than Mo. IMO that would be a huge slap in the face to all of us and shows that they really don't give a rats ass about the product on the field.

This off season is going to be a watershed moment for TFC if they don't get the ass in gear by getting rid of Mo and improving the product on the field there is going to be a lot more empty seats and our tag as the model franchise will go down drain just like our playoff hopes every year in the summer

I have to say I agree with this. If they try to put in Jimmy as the GM (or Dichio as the head coach, or any combination of the two) I will lose a lot of respect for the organization. At that point, they will just be trying to cater to an emotional element in the fan base "aww, Jimmy B was our first player, now look at him" instead of trying to win. We need to bring in people that will make this franchise a winner, no matter what that entails, not use people to try to play on some perceived emotional connection.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Preki is doing a better job than his predecessors. It's still not good enough. One person has said Nichols. Good. Anyone else have any upgrades to suggest manager-wise or should we just leave the job opening vacant after we kick Preki outta town?

I don't consider Jimmy B seriously.

[bones]

.......
He wants players who make between $100k - $200K a year that are interchangable. He favours hard work over skill.

He also wants SMART players. Players that can listen to him off the pitch and actually learn. I was lucky enough to be right in with the players on my flight back from Denver and Preki spent a lot of time with each player on details of play and position etc. Not a bad quality in a coach that a lot of "reporters" just don't see.

As for ML$E's approach on changing the GM, they usually offer it to the coach to do a dual role while they "find the right person". And when the new person comes in, the current coach usually is gone within a year. So my guess is they dump MoJo and Preki becomes interim coach while they look (kill all next year) and finally realize that Jimmy B is their man.

Bones...

[Shakes McQueen]

Havind said that, if it's Jimmy B who becomes GM (This organization has done crazier things) and he wants to work with Preki then no, not down with that. That would be more of the same we've seen this year.

I would be livid with MLSE if they named Jim Brennan our GM. Not that I'm opposed to Jimmy B ever becoming A, or even OUR, GM... but to give someone that inexperienced the job after fours years of non-playoff results for the team, and one (not even full) year of being up in the front office? Fuck that.

- Scott

[Pachuco]

I would be livid with MLSE if they named Jim Brennan our GM. Not that I'm opposed to Jimmy B ever becoming A, or even OUR, GM... but to give someone that inexperienced the job after fours years of non-playoff results for the team, and one (not even full) year of being up in the front office? Fuck that.

- Scott

Completely agree.

Another option though that we haven't considered is they make Preki GM and coach. It's not necessarily an impossible possibility. Preki may say I'll stay so long as I have control of who comes in and out.

If that happens I'm sure our opinions will differ in that I'd rather stab myself in the eye then watch Preki build a team his way :)

[Ossington Mental Youth]

So we're content having a team that battles for 8th place each season?

Because based on Preki's track record and our player signings that seems to be our destiny.

Uh not for nothing bro but didnt Preki come second to the supporters shield, top the west and win coach of the year in his first year also hes taken his team to the play offs every year hes coached...
Not that bad a track record

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Preki is doing a better job than his predecessors. It's still not good enough. One person has said Nichols. Good. Anyone else have any upgrades to suggest manager-wise or should we just leave the job opening vacant after we kick Preki outta town?

I don't consider Jimmy B seriously.

How well has Nichols done recently?
Yes hes had injuries and some poor signings, we'd jump all over him for that ish too.
Id like to see him here too but Id like Preki to have a shot first as hes already here.

[menefreghista]

Uh not for nothing bro but didnt Preki come second to the supporters shield, top the west and win coach of the year in his first year also hes taken his team to the play offs every year hes coached...
Not that bad a track record

That was one season, which appears to be more of an anomaly than anything else. That same team that won the Supporter's Shield was turfed in the first round of the playoffs.

His real track record appears to be to build a team that hovers in the 8th position.

Believe me, I want Preki to succeed. Because I want to see this team to well. But my eyes don't show me a team moving forward.

[Roogsy]

That was one season, which appears to be more of an anomaly than anything else. That same team that won the Supporter's Shield was turfed in the first round of the playoffs.

His real track record appears to be to build a team that hovers in the 8th position.

Believe me, I want Preki to succeed. Because I want to see this team to well. But my eyes don't show me a team moving forward.


Not just an anomaly, in many circles Preki simply benefited from the momentum created by Bradley before his departure for the national team and he performed worse and worse every subsequent year.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I agree the teams not moving forward enough for my liking (it is moving forward) but dont forget we are still being held down by some of Mo's purchases/signings. Even the attitude of the team is different/more positive this year.
Im still not ready to abandon the ship yet.

[ensco]

I seriously cannot believe the consensus emerging here.

Let's not kid ourselves. When you search for a GM with a coach in place, even if you tell the GM candidates "only keep the coach if you want him"....most candidates will say they want to keep the coach, because saying otherwise increases the cost to the team of hiring you, when you are compared with other GM candidates who are happy with the existing coach.

This would not be a process designed to get the best GM.

[Pachuco]

I agree the teams not moving forward enough for my liking (it is moving forward) but dont forget we are still being held down by some of Mo's purchases/signings. Even the attitude of the team is different/more positive this year.
Im still not ready to abandon the ship yet.

I'm still waiting to hear who Mo's signings are that are holding us back. And can't say Garcia since by all accounts we aren't paying his salary. Preki also prefers Garcia over his own peeps. Anyways, I genuinely want to know who these signings are which a lot of people talk about. Someone who likes to repeat this statement just point some people out so we can have a fruitfull discussion.

[menefreghista]

I'm still waiting to hear who Mo's signings are that are holding us back.

Technically I would think whatever our cap hits are for Gerba and Robinson could be used to improve the team.

The question is do people think Preki and Mo would use this extra space wisely?

[bgnewf]

I'm still waiting to hear who Mo's signings are that are holding us back. And can't say Garcia since by all accounts we aren't paying his salary. Preki also prefers Garcia over his own peeps. Anyways, I genuinely want to know who these signings are which a lot of people talk about. Someone who likes to repeat this statement just point some people out so we can have a fruitfull discussion.

We are paying about half of Garcia's salary.

[Wull]

Technically I would think whatever our cap hits are for Gerba and Robinson could be used to improve the team.

The question is do people think Preki and Mo would use this extra space wisely?


or we could have just kept Robbo and given Gerba a chance to get fit and let Brennan see out the season but it appears Preki had it out for at least two of them and I do think he had a say in jettisoning Robbo for not being the "two way midfielder" he likes

[Section 117]

Pachuco

Here is a quick list off the top of my head to what Mo has done to hold TFC back with respect to the roster:

Robinson - Paying the Shitebulls to take him (cap space is a comodity which we don't have)

Gerba - Cap hit unknown but we signed fat bastard to $250k contract and then paid him to leave. Again cap space

Cronin/White - I lump them together as we could have drafted Omar Gonalez. Cronin was trade for allocation aka cap space and White is probbaly the worst proffesional striker I have ever see. Whjich is an area we have little depth in.

JDG - I know you will like this one.... He is not a horrible player. Mo set him up to fail Mo need something to quell the masses and brought him in. He is not suite for this league as we have discussed numerous times.Takes up $375k or soemthing like that

[Pachuco]

Technically I would think whatever our cap hits are for Gerba and Robinson could be used to improve the team.

The question is do people think Preki and Mo would use this extra space wisely?

Agreed. It's debatable whether the players were dead weight or not, Preki obviously chose to take the cap hit over keeping the players, so I'm not sure he has anyone else to blame for that. But yes, those are two things that Preki/Mo won't have to deal with at the end of the season. we can probably buy another Hscanovic with that money :)

[torfchamilton]

Does anyone know how many teams out there have somebody who is a coach and a GM? How successful have they been? Please don't reference MOJO in this one, lol.

[Pachuco]

Pachuco

Here is a quick list off the top of my head to what Mo has done to hold TFC back with respect to the roster:

Robinson - Paying the Shitebulls to take him (cap space is a comodity which we don't have)

Gerba - Cap hit unknown but we signed fat bastard to $250k contract and then paid him to leave. Again cap space

Cronin/White - I lump them together as we could have drafted Omar Gonalez. Cronin was trade for allocation aka cap space and White is probbaly the worst proffesional striker I have ever see. Whjich is an area we have little depth in.

JDG - I know you will like this one.... He is not a horrible player. Mo set him up to fail Mo need something to quell the masses and brought him in. He is not suite for this league as we have discussed numerous times.Takes up $375k or soemthing like that

Yeap, fair enough, agree with those mistakes. Cronin and white however don't hold Preki back from anything. We got allocation money from Cronin and White is GA. Don't think you can find another 5th string striker for $0 cap hit anywhere.

JDG definately holds this team back. There is only three ways JDG can help us here, take a massive pay cut, way below the DP max which is what he's worth to me, leave, or start playing like he does for CMNT or like he did in La Liga.

So yes, there are a couple of mistakes Mo made that are holding us back. But there are lots on Preki's side as well. Like the signing of Peterson and Hscanovic. His man crush for Garcia. The signings of guys like Usanov and Saric in replacement of guys like Robbo and Serioux. The team's inability to score goals. The teams inability to get results on the road. The fact he's built a team difficult to identify with. The amout of 0-0 ties we've had to endure at BMO field this year. Very questionable player selections (17 year old kid getting thrown at the wolves in Honduras). Defensive lineups which constantly fail for him.

Those are things I hold Preki accountable for. I think he's dug his own grave more then Mo has dug Preki's grave. But that's just me.

[rocker]

White is GA. Don't think you can find another 5th string striker for $0 cap hit anywhere. .

White is not GA.. he turned GA down and went back to school to finish his degree before being drafted, which makes his large salary all the more baffling.

[jloome]

I seriously cannot believe the consensus emerging here.

Let's not kid ourselves. When you search for a GM with a coach in place, even if you tell the GM candidates "only keep the coach if you want him"....most candidates will say they want to keep the coach, because saying otherwise increases the cost to the team of hiring you, when you are compared with other GM candidates who are happy with the existing coach.

This would not be a process designed to get the best GM.

LOL, someone who understands the corporate shark mindset.

Also, why would you give the new GM an excuse?

Anytime you're hiring from amongst the most competitive people, in a very competitive field, you're going to run the risk of getting guys who are of a somewhat amoral suasion. Giving them the "out" of an old coach to blame it on is not a good idea.

TFC would need to follow Vancouver's lead and base the hire on track record of success, combined with a belief that the person's vision is comprehensive enough to succeed. There are times to go risky; this is not one of those times.

It would be noteworthy that Mo meets none of these requirements.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Cant say im all that displeased with the player movement on Preki's part. I dont think its amazing by anymeans (some players i think we have yet to see the best, others i dont think will be around long). Sad to see some old faces go, sure but am i livid about it? no as it was a)inevitable and b)time for some of them to leave. We will be getting some freed cap space and with that I expect to see Preki do something with it. If its more of the same from next year, sure, chop him at the end of next (provided we dont better ourselves in results).

I do see alot of people being disgruntled but im not entirely sure what they realistically expect.

lets pretend we did fire mo and Preki and hire a new coach.
1) we will have players from mos and prekis periods here
2)how much time will you give this new coach
3) how much power will you give this new coach

4 coaches in 4 years sounds more like a GM problem than it does coaches to me...
Sure if the coach is unable to do the job fire him but make sure its all on him first, at this point its so muddled everyones involved...

[Section 117]

Pachuco

I agree that not all of the signings are great that Preki is involved in, but I think Saric has addapted better to the league once he came bcak from injury... No offense to Serioux but I would take Cann over him any day... As much as i dislike Garcia he has played resonably well on the left.

Preki's questionable line up choices I agree with especially on the road. I have no answer for why he does waht he does. But the nil nil draws at home are completely unacceptable as there have been times that I want to gouge my eyes out at how boring we play and how there is no movement and creativity with this team.

He is building a decent foundation defensively. IMO playoffs are a pipe dream due to the amount of points we have dropped at home and we all know how horrible we are on the road.

Thw thing I want to make this season a succes at this point is we beat the Crew at home. Fuck them and their ugly piss colour jersies

[Ossington Mental Youth]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here here

[Oldtimer]

JDG definately holds this team back. There is only three ways JDG can help us here, take a massive pay cut, way below the DP max which is what he's worth to me, leave, or start playing like he does for CMNT or like he did in La Liga.


There is another way. Build a team around him that plays to his strengths. Both Mo and Preki have failed miserably in this regard.

Preki doesn't understand how to deal with quality players like Guevara or JDG. He just wants role players who fill interchangeable slots in his system.

Mo's even worse. He assembles teams like he's playing Football Manager. He ends up with bits and pieces that in practice don't work well together. A JDG is going to find it hard to perform with bit players who can't read the game well. Even so, he is our best player on the field:


Julian de Guzman (Toronto FC): Started, played ninety minutes in 1-0 defeat to Aarabe Unido of panama in the CONCACAF Champions League - Started, played ninety minutes in scoreless draw against Real Salt Lake

Losing in Panama and only getting a point at home, the week was a disappointing one for Toronto FC. De Guzman though was arguably the club’s best field player in both matches as his defensive presence in the midfield allowed the club’s attack to push forward. http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2010/08/30/2095327/dp-dissection-henry-gets-it-going


You don't sign a DP without taking into account how he will play with the rest of the team (unless you're MoJo).

Now if you are going to have a "Preki" team, I would argue that you don't need any expensive players. Dump JDG, DeRo and OBW. Take the money you save to upgrade the role players.

If you don't want a "Preki" team, then Preki must go, as well.

[Technorgasm]

Preki is doing a better job than his predecessors. It's still not good enough. One person has said Nichols. Good. Anyone else have any upgrades to suggest manager-wise or should we just leave the job opening vacant after we kick Preki outta town?

I don't consider Jimmy B seriously.

Nicol would get us to an MLS final within 3 years
Nicol woudl see Tattoo shops have a 30% increase in TFC related tattoos
Nicol is a champion in every sence of the word. When he wakes up in the morning he pisses excellence
Nicol would be able to stay below the cap, adn get us post season ball in year one. no doubt.

Nicol.. . . is WORLD CLASS

http://shop.sportsworldcards.com/ekmps/shops/sportsworld/images/liverpool-steve-nicol-wc2-limited-edition-world-class-futera-1998-football-trading-card-34527-p.jpg

(Mo is the pariah of football)

[Oldtimer]

I actually favour cleaning house at the end of this year. That's what RSL did to pull their club out of perennial loser status.

Bring in a new GM. Make it clear to him that he doesn't have to keep Preki. Send Nick Garcia into retirement. Send the Brinks trucks to the Kraft family and Steve Nicol.

Let the new GM know he's free to bring back any of the players who have left in the past. I would sure like to see Serioux back, for one. He's a solid defender and loved being here. He would be a great replacement for Nick Garcia.

[Blizzard]

White is not GA.. he turned GA down and went back to school to finish his degree before being drafted, which makes his large salary all the more baffling.

Sadly, that year was when he blew out his knee possibly ruining his career. We'll see what happens to him as the years go by but I have difficulty believing he was this immobile prior to his knee injury but he may well have been.

Either way, for his sake, it's unfortunate he didn't grab the GA opportunity.

[ManUtd4ever]

I actually favour cleaning house at the end of this year. That's what RSL did to pull their club out of perennial loser status.

Bring in a new GM. Make it clear to him that he doesn't have to keep Preki. Send Nick Garcia into retirement. Send the Brinks trucks to the Kraft family and Steve Nicol.

Let the new GM know he's free to bring back any of the players who have left in the past. I would sure like to see Serioux back, for one. He's a solid defender and loved being here. He would be a great replacement for Nick Garcia.

I agree with the hiring of a new GM with the option of hiring his own coach if necessary. I think cleaning house is somewhat extreme though. Let's not forget that TFC is a club with a good nucleus that has played very well at times this year with a full squad. It is not necessary to start from scratch. If I was the next GM of TFC I would focus on upgrading the talent level built around the following players:

-DeRo
-JDG
-Barrett
-Santos
-Attakora
-Cann
-Frei

Everyone else on the club is expendable although I would probably keep the following players in a reserve role based on their cap hit, work ethic, and potential:

-Gargan
-Harden
-Gomez

[Pachuco]

White is not GA.. he turned GA down and went back to school to finish his degree before being drafted, which makes his large salary all the more baffling.

Interesting, I thought his was. Wow, White is seriously a huge mistake on Mo's part then. I'd put that right at the top of mistakes MO has made.

You are telling me he took OBW with no GA over Gonzales with a GA? Oh my god that makes me livid. I have no idea why I thought he was GA this whole time. I want to throw my laptop across the room right now.

[Shakes McQueen]

Interesting, I thought his was. Wow, White is seriously a huge mistake on Mo's part then. I'd put that right at the top of mistakes MO has made.

You are telling me he took OBW with no GA over Gonzales with a GA? Oh my god that makes me livid. I have no idea why I thought he was GA this whole time. I want to throw my laptop across the room right now.

Didn't Gonzalez get drafted first overall, by Los Angeles,and we picked second?

Perhaps I'm just remembering it wrong.

EDIT: I was wrong - he got picked third, which means yes, we did have the opportunity to take him. We took Sam Cronin with the second pick though, not White. White was taken with the 4th overall pick.

- Scott

[Section 117]

So at the end of the day our 2nd overall pick in the draft got us allocation money our 4th pick got us an injured and now useless player and our 13th pick which was almost traded away got us Frei...

Someone again remind me how good Mo's drafting record is again

[Shakes McQueen]

So at the end of the day our 2nd overall pick in the draft got us allocation money our 4th pick got us an injured and now useless player and our 13th pick which was almost traded away got us Frei...

Someone again remind me how good Mo's drafting record is again

They looked like good picks at the time - not all high picks pan out. Particularly in a mixed bag like the MLS draft.

As I recall, Ives gave us an "A+" for that draft. Cronin looked like a bonafide talent coming out of the combine, Frei was considered an astute pickup after he unexpectedly slipped, and OBW was considered a first overall selection before he got injured.

I'm reluctant to look back on a draft like that, in 20/20 hindsight, and give Mo shit for who he picked. Especially when the consensus at the time was that we had a good draft - there were no picks that stood at as "WTF?" selections. Picking Cronin before Gonzalez was considered reasonable at the time.

- Scott

[Pachuco]

They looked like good picks at the time - not all high picks pan out. Particularly in a mixed bag like the MLS draft.

As I recall, Ives gave us an "A+" for that draft. Cronin looked like a bonafide talent coming out of the combine, Frei was considered an astute pickup after he unexpectedly slipped, and OBW was considered a first overall selection before he got injured.

I'm reluctant to look back on a draft like that, in 20/20 hindsight, and give Mo shit for who he picked. Especially when the consensus at the time was that we had a good draft - there were no picks that stood at as "WTF?" selections. Picking Cronin before Gonzalez was considered reasonable at the time.

- Scott

I don't know about picking Cronin over Gonzales seeming reasonable. We definately needed a defender badly and most people were shocked he picked a midfielder.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't know about picking Cronin over Gonzales seeming reasonable. We definately needed a defender badly and most people were shocked he picked a midfielder.

I could see that argument, sure, but it still wasn't a "laptop-throwingly" ridiculous pick to make at the time, haha.

Of course, in hindsight it looks ridiculous now, knowing what happened to Cronin. But like I said - I'm reluctant to criticize Mo for those picks.

Not when there's so many other, better reasons to give him shit, and want him fired, haha.

- Scott

[Beach_Red]

LOL, someone who understands the corporate shark mindset.

Also, why would you give the new GM an excuse?

Anytime you're hiring from amongst the most competitive people, in a very competitive field, you're going to run the risk of getting guys who are of a somewhat amoral suasion. Giving them the "out" of an old coach to blame it on is not a good idea.

TFC would need to follow Vancouver's lead and base the hire on track record of success, combined with a belief that the person's vision is comprehensive enough to succeed. There are times to go risky; this is not one of those times.

It would be noteworthy that Mo meets none of these requirements.

Well, from that corporate shark mindset Mo or Preki is now the safe choice, the ones with the experience. How MLSE ever handed over an expansion team to a guy with a half-year of experience is crazy. There was no shortage of cash if they'd wanted to hire a an experienced president of soccer operations and an experienced GM and coach.

And remember, when Preki was hired he was only able to bring in one assistant of his own - he was told the rest of the staff was staying in place.

Now with guys like Dichio and Brennan as part of the inside circle, this organization is building from within - and that's from within a team that's only ever had a losing record.

[Pachuco]

I could see that argument, sure, but it still wasn't a "laptop-throwingly" ridiculous pick to make at the time, haha.

Of course, in hindsight it looks ridiculous now, knowing what happened to Cronin. But like I said - I'm reluctant to criticize Mo for those picks.

Not when there's so many other, better reasons to give him shit, and want him fired, haha.

- Scott

You are correct, I was about to throw my laptop and then you reminded me we actually picked White after Gonzales was signed :)

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I don't know about picking Cronin over Gonzales seeming reasonable. We definately needed a defender badly and most people were shocked he picked a midfielder.

sure but remember its still a gamble to take a CB whos only played in the NCAA, remember how Julius James did (granted that combine/graduating year was held in lower regard)

[Shakes McQueen]

XZieDrn5fnA

- Scott

[Blizzard]

Well, from that corporate shark mindset Mo or Preki is now the safe choice, the ones with the experience. How MLSE ever handed over an expansion team to a guy with a half-year of experience is crazy. There was no shortage of cash if they'd wanted to hire a an experienced president of soccer operations and an experienced GM and coach.

And remember, when Preki was hired he was only able to bring in one assistant of his own - he was told the rest of the staff was staying in place.

Now with guys like Dichio and Brennan as part of the inside circle, this organization is building from within - and that's from within a team that's only ever had a losing record.

So, you advocate getting rid of Dichio and Brennan? That would be a very popular move wouldn't it!

I think Preki is perhaps our major problem. Chivas supporters seem to think he was a very divisive and disruptive source down there and that had as much to do with contract not being renewed as anything else.

BTW, has anybody heard anything about his son playing for the academy? Back in the spring I'd heard he was trying out. Did he make the team?

B

[Shakes McQueen]

Now with guys like Dichio and Brennan as part of the inside circle, this organization is building from within - and that's from within a team that's only ever had a losing record.

I don't take those two specific hires as evidence of any greater strategy, as far as TFC building up their front office from within. Both were significant players in our history, and both were led into retirement under dubious circumstances - it was natural that they would be given off-field roles with the team, and the supporters were loudly calling for it too.

Now, if they start grooming other, less significant players to off-field roles (some here have suggested Garcia be offered a coaching role in the past), then I'm with you on this point.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

I could see that argument, sure, but it still wasn't a "laptop-throwingly" ridiculous pick to make at the time, haha.

Of course, in hindsight it looks ridiculous now, knowing what happened to Cronin. But like I said - I'm reluctant to criticize Mo for those picks.

Not when there's so many other, better reasons to give him shit, and want him fired, haha.

- Scott


Agreed. In hindsight obviously Mo could have drafted better but nobody knew at the time what a great pick Gonzalez was going to be. This isn't one argument I am going to make against Mo.

[ensco]

Agreed. In hindsight obviously Mo could have drafted better but nobody knew at the time what a great pick Gonzalez was going to be. This isn't one argument I am going to make against Mo.


Whether it's Gonzalez or whomever that he should have taken isn't as relevant to the discussion, sure.

But picking a guy second overall and then dumping him for an allocation a year later is an effing disaster. It's absolutely a huge part of the case against Mo.

[Shakes McQueen]

But picking a guy second overall and then dumping him for an allocation a year later is an effing disaster. It's absolutely a huge part of the case against Mo.

I disagree. Cronin was considered a fantastic pick and a fantastic talent in that draft. He didn't pan out for us, so we cut anchor and moved on. It sucks, but it happens.

I think it detracts from Mo's overall reputation as a drafter, but "a huge part of the case against Mo"? No way.

Hindsight is always 20/20. And hindsight also points out that we got a terrific keeper out of that draft.

- Scott

[maninb]

Whether it's Gonzalez or whomever that he should have taken isn't as relevant to the discussion, sure.

But picking a guy second overall and then dumping him for an allocation a year later is an effing disaster. It's absolutely a huge part of the case against Mo.


Cronin got DUMPED by Preki....IMO Mo had very little to do with cutting him loose...I detest Mo, but his choice of Cronin over Gonzales was a wise one at the time...

[Azerban]

but nobody knew at the time what a great pick Gonzalez was going to be

Gonzalez was incredibly high-ranked in the draft?

[Roogsy]

So was Obie...

[Azerban]

So was Obie...

he was, deservedly, till he got heavily injured and dropped like a rock

still think something inside him snapped when that happened (not just his knee)

[DoubleUp]

some environments raise the level of a players ability and some environments make them question their ability simple as that........I think Tfc's environment is not 'striving for excellence" but rather"trying are best" and some times their best is not good enough.

[ensco]

Cronin was considered a fantastic pick and a fantastic talent in that draft......


By who? Face it, none of us know anything about these NCAA guys, so we act like what Buzz Carrick or Ives says means something. It is NOT the GM's job to let those guys tell him what to do. The GM's job is to turn high first round picks into assets, more often than not.

In terms of high picks, Mo's had one great decision, Edu, but four terrible decisions: picking Cronin and OBW, trading the fifth overall first round pick in 2010 for Serioux, and trading the second overall pick in 2008 for Mulrooney.

Picking Frei 13th is in a different category. It's great that he grabbed him there, that's a win, but it's balanced out by other later first round washouts like trading the 14th pick overall in 2008 for Cunny, or taking Phelan 10th the same year. On balance, Mo hasn't made much out of later picks either, not that anybody really does in this league.

But giving Mo a pass on blowing high picks because Buzz Carrick blessed it at the time? That's lame.

[Oldtimer]

In terms of high picks, Mo's had one good decision, Edu, but four terrible decisions: picking Cronin and OBW, trading the first round pick for Serioux, and trading the second overall pick in 2008 for Mulrooney.


I think Mo should go, but in all fairness only 1 of those was "terrible." Both Cronin and Serioux were solid decisions, only undone because Preki didn't value those players. OBW was a role of the dice that any GM would have done. So only Mulrooney was a total wash-out.

Mo's an above-average drafter at the MLS level, but that's only a small part of his job. He's done quite poorly in the other areas.
You don't have to think he's total crap in everything to think the club needs a new GM.

[ensco]

I think Mo should go, but in all fairness only 1 of those was "terrible." Both Cronin and Serioux were solid decisions, only undone because Preki didn't value those players. OBW was a role of the dice that any GM would have done. So only Mulrooney was a total wash-out.

Mo's an above-average drafter at the MLS level, but that's only a small part of his job. He's done quite poorly in the other areas.
You don't have to think he's total crap in everything to think the club needs a new GM.

You're sugar coating it.

Cronin - maybe. Read BS, the SJ fans don't see much there either. Blame Preki, but even still, the return we got there was shocking

Serioux - this has zip to do with Preki, it was a stickup, Mo paid a huge price because he idiotically dumped Marshall and Dunivant for allocations and needed to replace them the day before the season started

OBW - no way. You don't roll the dice at number 4, and quite a few people here said so at the time. There was a whole discussion here on whether he would still be there at 13 (of course who knows?). Either way, I totally disagree that "anyone" would have done that.

[Roogsy]

he was, deservedly, till he got heavily injured and dropped like a rock

still think something inside him snapped when that happened (not just his knee)

Doesn't matter how his performance has been affected by his injury, his injury was well known by the time the draft came around. The point is everything in the draft is a gamble. Gonazalez was highly rated but I don't recall anyone rating him as high as he has eventually become, a fixture on the biggest team in MLS, an MLS Rookie of the Year, a possible national team regular and and All Star. Nobody saw that coming or Gonzalez would have gone first.

[Section 117]

So was Obie...

Agreed before he got hurt....

When drafting players one must take into consideration what the teams needs were at that time which makes things even worse for Mo, which inturn has handicapped this team which makes Preki's job harder.

We need at the time a defender or two, wide players and strikers with 3 first round picks all we really have his Frei and that fell in our lap for two reasons: 1. his stock dropped for some unknown reason and 2. Mo attempted to trade that pick to the shite bulls for Mike Magee but they have already agreed to a deal with the galaxy

[JonO]

Nobody saw that coming or Gonzalez would have gone first.
From all the reviews and draft previews it was a toss up between him and Zakuani (who hasn't exactly been disappointing for Seattle and was also up for rookie of the year) so I was quite disappointed when we didn't pick him.

[Pachuco]

Actually people did see Gonzales as going #1 in that draft. Until the combine where some reporters started to talk about how slow he was. I remember that clearly. And Cronin jumped quite a bit in the draft thanks to a great combine performance. Goes to show you Mo's scouting ability probably didn't go past attending the combine and reading the media reports.

At the end of the day though I'm with Ensco. It isn't our job or the media's job to draft players. It's Mo's job. So how can he not be heald accountable for passing on a guy like Gonzales when we had a serious need to fill a gap on defense. We had more midfielders then we needed at the time as well. He took a gamble, it didn't pan out, obviously he's responsible, nobody else. I also get that Carver probably liked Cronin and they drafted him together, again though, he only has himself to blame for once again signing a coach that didn't stick.

Any way I look at this I blame Mo for Gonzales not being on this team. The reason MO has to go though goes alot deeper then that.

Not saying he's the worst drafter ever, just saying,

[JonO]

^ Agreed. Found an interview with Sean Keay:

4. Can you give us the top player by position in the draft?

Goalkeeper – Stefan Frei (Cal)
Defender – Omar Gonzalez (Maryland)
Midfielder – Chris Pontius (UCSB - prefers to play on the wing so he can get more touches)
Forward – Steve Zakuani (Akron)

Therer are lots more Sean Keay quotes stating how he believed Gonzalez was the best pick for TFC

From Ives review of the draft:

Given TFC's needs along the back, selecting Cronin came as a bit of a surprise.

<snip>

Most mock drafts had Cronin falling to the Galaxy, but coach Bruce Arena will be more than happy to see Gonzalez land in his lap -- a case of the best player available also satisfying a team's desperate needs.

[Blizzard]

Cronin got DUMPED by Preki....IMO Mo had very little to do with cutting him loose...I detest Mo, but his choice of Cronin over Gonzales was a wise one at the time...

Cronin was not dumped. We got good allocation money back for him, allocation money that allowed us to bring in Maicon and Mista.

It may have been a salary dump but that in itself wasn't huge. The key thing was what we got back.

Cronin is a pretty decent player and was a big part of TFC in his rookie season. He fell out of favour with a new coach that likes a toughter style of game. OK, so be it.

The best was made of an uncomfortable situation and it has worked out quite well for us I'd say and as for Sam, he gets a fresh start with a coach that is willing to give him time on the field.

B

[jloome]

Cronin was not dumped. We got good allocation money back for him, allocation money that allowed us to bring in Maicon and Mista.

It may have been a salary dump but that in itself wasn't huge. The key thing was what we got back.

Cronin is a pretty decent player and was a big part of TFC in his rookie season. He fell out of favour with a new coach that likes a toughter style of game. OK, so be it.

The best was made of an uncomfortable situation and it has worked out quite well for us I'd say and as for Sam, he gets a fresh start with a coach that is willing to give him time on the field.

B

They've used him as a fullback a couple of times, which is where he'll fit best long run.

[Heart of Stone]

Cummins is the best coach we've had... if he had managed the club from the beginning of last season we would have made the playoffs... Mo lied to him about working papers for his wife...

[rocker]

Cummins is the best coach we've had... .

I disagree on that one.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i think quite a few people will agree with your statement Rocker (me being one of them)

[Roogsy]

I am going out on a limb and saying we have yet to be blessed with a "good" coach. Carver had the best potential with his pedigree, years of experience and background. But he let his emotions take over and could not handle the amateur skill level of this team. I don't think he was able to develop lower skill players like Preki is able to do. I think a combination of Carver with a Preki-like assistant would have yielded us results.

[jloome]

i think quite a few people will agree with your statement Rocker (me being one of them)

He's got the best winning percentage of the four and won us our first trophy. So on the face of it, he was our best coach.

Beyond "the face of it" none of us knows, as training is where this stuff counts, and we're not involved.

A more egalitarian approach would be for most to agree that we've had four pretty crappy coaches so far, or four mediocre ones combined with an atrocious GM.

[Chevy]

With the exception of Frei and MAYBE Mista and Cann, can anyone say that we had a bona-fide first team MLS player on the pitch last night? Second, with the exception of Mista (maybe) was there anyone on the pitch that you believe could legitimately score more than 3-5 goals/year in this league?

Despite all this (insert Mo must go comment here) the back four was passable, and overall they played decent possession football. Also came somewhat close to getting a point from one of the hottest teams in the league.

Maybe I'm going against the grain here but this year's squad is easily the best coached of the four. We suck, and you cant fix suck but considering our squad's talent Preki has us performing at the highest possible level of suck.

[Shakes McQueen]

With the exception of Frei and MAYBE Mista and Cann, can anyone say that we had a bona-fide first team MLS player on the pitch last night? Second, with the exception of Mista (maybe) was there anyone on the pitch that you believe could legitimately score more than 3-5 goals/year in this league?

Despite all this (insert Mo must go comment here) the back four was passable, and overall they played decent possession football. Also came somewhat close to getting a point from one of the hottest teams in the league.

Maybe I'm going against the grain here but this year's squad is easily the best coached of the four. We suck, and you cant fix suck but considering our squad's talent Preki has us performing at the highest possible level of suck.

This has been roughly my position this season.

I recall how bleak myself and many others thought this season was going to be - our salary cap situation was a shambles, we had lost several talented players, and Mo still hadn't procured us any depth at striker or the back four... for the fourth straight season. We thought this was going to be a year of serious regression from the meagre heights we had reached to date.

Preki managed to take the lopsided group of misfits, and make them them thoroughly average. I still think he deserves a chance with a better general manager who manages the cap well enough that we can afford to sign on more than inexpensive stop-gaps, and who understands that football squads are supposed to have wing players.

However, as I've also said, when Mo gets fired, I think the GM should have the inalienable right to hire his own staff is he so chooses.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

But you guys are ignoring one major fact:

We have an undertalented squad BY CHOICE. What this team looks like was done intentionally.

Preki has shown disdain and avoidance in working with talented, creative players. I suppose they come with an ego and a lack of work ethic that Preki dislikes.

So what you guys are lauding as a positive in relative terms is actually not so positive in absolute terms.

[Shakes McQueen]

But you guys are ignoring one major fact:

We have an undertalented squad BY CHOICE. What this team looks like was done intentionally.

Preki has shown disdain and avoidance in working with talented, creative players. I suppose they come with an ego and a lack of work ethic that Preki dislikes.

So what you guys are lauding as a positive in relative terms is actually not so positive in absolute terms.

I'm not ignoring these points, but I'm certainlly not convinced they are "facts". All we have are suppositions, as to how much control Preki has had over the shape of this lineup. I've had this argument with a few of you guys on more than one occasion.

I will note that all of the major pieces of this team were already in place long before he got here - DeRo, JDG, Nana, Frei, Barrett, etc., along with a couple of boat anchors in Garcia and Gerba's salary - and hence, the vast majority of our available cap space was already committed when he walked in the door.

I think it's probable that Preki had a hand in recommending Mo sign a guy like Maicon, but if he's so averse to finesse players who don't give 110% every minute, and supposedly has ultimate control over the roster, why then would he sign Mista? Does that not fly in the face of either a) the idea that Preki avoids temperamental but talented players, or b) that he has complete control over who comes and goes on this roster? Especially in light of the fact that they had a supposed rift only a couple of weeks after he came here?

Why are we suddenly so convinced that our coach has control over our signings, when we've previously spent years opining on how obvious it was that Mo was just signing past buddies and players from his own agency? How do we continue to make these leaps in judgment, without any substantiating evidence beyond everyone on this website having their own unnamed "team sources" of widly varying levels of credibility, and the word of some Chivas fans whose views and opinions probably vary as wildly as ours do on any given matter?

My position of the job Preki has done is not an unequivocal endorsement - you'd have to be certifiable to "endorse" the coach of a team that doesn't make the playoffs, and isn't in a rebuilding year. My position is that Preki deserves a chance under a competent GM that can do more than sign expensive has-beens and unremarkable, inexpensive jobbers.

We've tried three years of the coaching carousel and complete organizational instability. My opinion, is that it's time to try some stability in the dressing room, and a change in the front office for once. Maybe we can even reach some organizational milestones, like having a settled roster on opening day of the season! A man can dream, can't he?

And like any fan, if it doesn't appear to be working after the first handful of games next season, I reserve the right to change my mind.

I thoroughly respect the opinions of those of you who think his tactics are flawed, and that we need to keep hiring and firing coaches every year until we find one that takes this team to a championship. I just happen to disagree with how to go about that goal.

- Scott

[Kaz]

It's been said that Preki made it to the playoffs every year with a strong Chivas team.. and was eliminated in the first round every time, the record got worse each year as more players were brought in by Preki.

In Toronto Preki was given Cart Blanche for the most part and he is having his worse season yet.

Preki has never done well in the CONCACAF CL or other international competitions. The primary reason for this is because Preki plays a get points and hold back rest your starts for the next game, play a middle third defense rather then a middle third offense, because he wants to prevent goals not score them.

OBW could be developed but Preki isn't they guy to develop a striker. OBW has gotten worse over the course of the year, I don't think that has anything to do with his ability but the coaching staff.

Preki was let go because Chivas FO saw most of this and wanted a coach that could bring long term success. MLSE took Mo's recommendation, like with Garcia, to bring in people he can have a beer with.

Mo has to go. Preki needs to be given one more year with a strong GM making the player choices, and then we need to spend next year looking for a new Coach with a win every game mentality, to replace Preki.

Really the Team needs a Strong Coaching staff...and good developmental coaches for people like Fuad, OBW, Nane, and Gala.

We need to Drop Peterson like a sore thumb, and either saric or labrocca and bring in a strong winger.

We need to dumb one of the Russians, and Garcia. And use Garcia ridiculous salary to bring in two players of better skill then both.

We then need to make DeRo a DP and free up that cap space (I mean serious wtf that is a decent player worth of cap) Drop Mista (as much as I like him), and bring in a strong proven 27-28 year old DP striker to work with Barrett and Maicon.

That is 5 player changes really and decent coaches. I think the issue has alot to do with Coaching more then anything else.

[Pachuco]

I'm not ignoring these points, but I'm certainlly not convinced they are "facts". All we have are suppositions, as to how much control Preki has had over the shape of this lineup. I've had this argument with a few of you guys on more than one occasion.

I will note that all of the major pieces of this team were already in place long before he got here - DeRo, JDG, Nana, Frei, Barrett, etc., along with a couple of boat anchors in Garcia and Gerba's salary - and hence, the vast majority of our available cap space was already committed when he walked in the door.

I think it's probable that Preki had a hand in recommending Mo sign a guy like Maicon, but if he's so averse to finesse players who don't give 110% every minute, and supposedly has ultimate control over the roster, why then would he sign Mista? Does that not fly in the face of either a) the idea that Preki avoids temperamental but talented players, or b) that he has complete control over who comes and goes on this roster? Especially in light of the fact that they had a supposed rift only a couple of weeks after he came here?

Why are we suddenly so convinced that our coach has control over our signings, when we've previously spent years opining on how obvious it was that Mo was just signing past buddies and players from his own agency? How do we continue to make these leaps in judgment, without any substantiating evidence beyond everyone on this website having their own unnamed "team sources" of widly varying levels of credibility, and the word of some Chivas fans whose views and opinions probably vary as wildly as ours do on any given matter?

My position of the job Preki has done is not an unequivocal endorsement - you'd have to be certifiable to "endorse" the coach of a team that doesn't make the playoffs, and isn't in a rebuilding year. My position is that Preki deserves a chance under a competent GM that can do more than sign expensive has-beens and unremarkable, inexpensive jobbers.

We've tried three years of the coaching carousel and complete organizational instability. My opinion, is that it's time to try some stability in the dressing room, and a change in the front office for once. Maybe we can even reach some organizational milestones, like having a settled roster on opening day of the season! A man can dream, can't he?

And like any fan, if it doesn't appear to be working after the first handful of games next season, I reserve the right to change my mind.

I thoroughly respect the opinions of those of you who think his tactics are flawed, and that we need to keep hiring and firing coaches every year until we find one that takes this team to a championship. I just happen to disagree with how to go about that goal.

- Scott

I really don't understand Shakes how it's not glaringly obvious to you that Preki has a lot to do with shaping this team. I mean, let's go back and think about the type of players and the type of team we had when Carver was here. Players who were generally individuals with a lot of skill on the ball. Robert, Ricketts, Vitti and the list goes on. You seriously think you are going to see another one of those players while Preki is coach? It was a completely different team with a completely different mentality.

If Mo really was building these teams on his own you think the mentality of what players get signed would have changed over night? The players that have been signed this year fit the Preki bill. Everyone knows that. The players signed last year fit the Carver bill. Everyone knows that too.

I'm not saying Carver's way was any better, all I'm saying is it's obvious both coaches had a big say in how this team is shaped.

And you are using the exception in Mista to prove that Preki doesn't shape this team. Yet we have prove that Preki sent Gerba home packing, shit Mo said it himself. The fact Preki may have not had a say in 1 player coming to this team doens't mean he didn't shape this team.

[Shakes McQueen]

Ugh, I had a somewhat lengthy response, then accidentally hotkeyed forward a page and lost the entire thing. I may come back to this later.

- Scott

[Blizzard]

It's been said that Preki made it to the playoffs every year with a strong Chivas team.. and was eliminated in the first round every time, the record got worse each year as more players were brought in by Preki.

In Toronto Preki was given Cart Blanche for the most part and he is having his worse season yet.

Preki has never done well in the CONCACAF CL or other international competitions. The primary reason for this is because Preki plays a get points and hold back rest your starts for the next game, play a middle third defense rather then a middle third offense, because he wants to prevent goals not score them.

OBW could be developed but Preki isn't they guy to develop a striker. OBW has gotten worse over the course of the year, I don't think that has anything to do with his ability but the coaching staff.

Preki was let go because Chivas FO saw most of this and wanted a coach that could bring long term success. MLSE took Mo's recommendation, like with Garcia, to bring in people he can have a beer with.

Mo has to go. Preki needs to be given one more year with a strong GM making the player choices, and then we need to spend next year looking for a new Coach with a win every game mentality, to replace Preki.

Really the Team needs a Strong Coaching staff...and good developmental coaches for people like Fuad, OBW, Nane, and Gala.

We need to Drop Peterson like a sore thumb, and either saric or labrocca and bring in a strong winger.

We need to dumb one of the Russians, and Garcia. And use Garcia ridiculous salary to bring in two players of better skill then both.

We then need to make DeRo a DP and free up that cap space (I mean serious wtf that is a decent player worth of cap) Drop Mista (as much as I like him), and bring in a strong proven 27-28 year old DP striker to work with Barrett and Maicon.

That is 5 player changes really and decent coaches. I think the issue has alot to do with Coaching more then anything else.

We have only one Russian.

Garcia's contract is up and has been said here many times (and ignored every time by some obviously), his salary is being paid in the main by San Jose. We don't regain much cap space with his disappearance. Additionally, he'll probably retire although he hasn't really been all that bad over the past few months and I'd be tempted to offer him a 50k contract as a depth defender.

Mista is a huge question mark. He is obviously frustrated here as only JDG and Maicon are actually capable of playing with him in the way he is used to. I wouldn't blame him if he headed for home asap after the season concludes.

[CoachGT]

I wondered yesterday if last years team, with a few modifications (add Cann, Gargan, Labrocca and perhaps Saric and move out a couple of players as Mo had suggested at the end of the seaon), have the younger geuys that played last year with one more year under their belt (Frei, for example) and then add a couple of midseason acquisitions (Santos and Mista) whether this team would be in a better position to challenge for not only the playoffs but have a chance at going deep? Regardless, it is a time wasting exercise to think that way - we have what we have, and the salary cap played a good part in causing the need for things to be blown up.

I just don't want to see the start of another rebuilding process next year, but I think that is where we are headed.

I won't be satisfied with sneaking into the playoffs and then having our heads handed to us in the first round. I'd rather miss than face the thought that we are only one or two steps away with this team.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I'm not ignoring these points, but I'm certainlly not convinced they are "facts". All we have are suppositions, as to how much control Preki has had over the shape of this lineup. I've had this argument with a few of you guys on more than one occasion.

I will note that all of the major pieces of this team were already in place long before he got here - DeRo, JDG, Nana, Frei, Barrett, etc., along with a couple of boat anchors in Garcia and Gerba's salary - and hence, the vast majority of our available cap space was already committed when he walked in the door.

I think it's probable that Preki had a hand in recommending Mo sign a guy like Maicon, but if he's so averse to finesse players who don't give 110% every minute, and supposedly has ultimate control over the roster, why then would he sign Mista? Does that not fly in the face of either a) the idea that Preki avoids temperamental but talented players, or b) that he has complete control over who comes and goes on this roster? Especially in light of the fact that they had a supposed rift only a couple of weeks after he came here?

Why are we suddenly so convinced that our coach has control over our signings, when we've previously spent years opining on how obvious it was that Mo was just signing past buddies and players from his own agency? How do we continue to make these leaps in judgment, without any substantiating evidence beyond everyone on this website having their own unnamed "team sources" of widly varying levels of credibility, and the word of some Chivas fans whose views and opinions probably vary as wildly as ours do on any given matter?

My position of the job Preki has done is not an unequivocal endorsement - you'd have to be certifiable to "endorse" the coach of a team that doesn't make the playoffs, and isn't in a rebuilding year. My position is that Preki deserves a chance under a competent GM that can do more than sign expensive has-beens and unremarkable, inexpensive jobbers.

We've tried three years of the coaching carousel and complete organizational instability. My opinion, is that it's time to try some stability in the dressing room, and a change in the front office for once. Maybe we can even reach some organizational milestones, like having a settled roster on opening day of the season! A man can dream, can't he?

And like any fan, if it doesn't appear to be working after the first handful of games next season, I reserve the right to change my mind.

I thoroughly respect the opinions of those of you who think his tactics are flawed, and that we need to keep hiring and firing coaches every year until we find one that takes this team to a championship. I just happen to disagree with how to go about that goal.

- Scott

im behind this 100%

[Pookie]

First off, nice article.

I feel that the debate over Coach and GM is unfortunately exactly what MLSE want us to have. A bit of a "slight of hand" while they go about their business and offer up band aids instead of making hard decisions as a collective.

We focus on the easiest finger pointing solution. Fire the Coach! Fire the Manager!

Those problems are easy for MLSE to fix. They don't require boardroom political maneuvering or forward thinking. Give the fans their pound of flesh, live on the promise of optimism and go about your business.

Replacing Coach or GM will essentially offer nothing other than a roll of the dice.

These are some of the more "difficult" questions that need to be answered if we truly hope for change:

- replace the coach, with who? Is there a can't miss candidate out there looking for MLS work right now?

- replace the GM, with who? Same question

- Why do we need the Coach/GM role to be separate anyways? What of a true "Manager"?

- What help does the GM/Manager have currently in place to assess talent? Who are our scouts? What are their backgrounds? Where are we scouting?

- Who is advising on contracts? Seems like we've got a "Nana" issue on the horizon, not to mention some lofty salaries with minimal output. Assessing talent is one thing, paying an appropriate amount for it under a cap system is another skill entirely.

- Why in the hell does the name Tom Anselmi (or Richard Peddie) have anything to do with Soccer? Do we not need a Board "Chairman"? Would reporting directly into the MLSE Board not be a better solution? After all, the Peddie thing was deemed ineffective for both the Leafs and Raptors so they removed it. Why is it ok for TFC to have this failed model?

[Shakes McQueen]

First off, nice article.

I feel that the debate over Coach and GM is unfortunately exactly what MLSE want us to have. A bit of a "slight of hand" while they go about their business and offer up band aids instead of making hard decisions as a collective.

We focus on the easiest finger pointing solution. Fire the Coach! Fire the Manager!

Those problems are easy for MLSE to fix. They don't require boardroom political maneuvering or forward thinking. Give the fans their pound of flesh, live on the promise of optimism and go about your business.

Replacing Coach or GM will essentially offer nothing other than a roll of the dice.

These are some of the more "difficult" questions that need to be answered if we truly hope for change:

- replace the coach, with who? Is there a can't miss candidate out there looking for MLS work right now?

- replace the GM, with who? Same question

- Why do we need the Coach/GM role to be separate anyways? What of a true "Manager"?

- What help does the GM/Manager have currently in place to assess talent? Who are our scouts? What are their backgrounds? Where are we scouting?

- Who is advising on contracts? Seems like we've got a "Nana" issue on the horizon, not to mention some lofty salaries with minimal output. Assessing talent is one thing, paying an appropriate amount for it under a cap system is another skill entirely.

- Why in the hell does the name Tom Anselmi (or Richard Peddie) have anything to do with Soccer? Do we not need a Board "Chairman"? Would reporting directly into the MLSE Board not be a better solution? After all, the Peddie thing was deemed ineffective for both the Leafs and Raptors so they removed it. Why is it ok for TFC to have this failed model?

I concur with pretty much all of these concerns, Pookie. But they don't preclude the discussion taking place about Mo and Preki.

And once Mo is fired (which I think is inevitable now), as supporters we need to stay on ownership to make sure they hire a true professional, and not just another comparatively cheap MLS lifer with dubious managerial credentials.

And after that, we should make some noise about proper scouting, etc.

If you protest everything at once, it just becomes incoherent noise.

- Scott

[Beach_Red]

I concur with pretty much all of these concerns, Pookie. But they don't preclude the discussion taking place about Mo and Preki.

And once Mo is fired (which I think is inevitable now), as supporters we need to stay on ownership to make sure they hire a true professional, and not just another comparatively cheap MLS lifer with dubious managerial credentials.

- Scott


Yeah, I think this is true, too. MLSE have shown that they respond to pressure from fans. It took a while but they did eventually hand over their basketball and hockey teams to guys with good resumes, they should do the same here.

Of course, I'd like to know why they didn't in the first place, but I know we'll never really understand how they make decisions.

[Pookie]

I concur with pretty much all of these concerns, Pookie. But they don't preclude the discussion taking place about Mo and Preki.

And once Mo is fired (which I think is inevitable now), as supporters we need to stay on ownership to make sure they hire a true professional, and not just another comparatively cheap MLS lifer with dubious managerial credentials.

And after that, we should make some noise about proper scouting, etc.

If you protest everything at once, it just becomes incoherent noise.

- Scott

This is where I have less optimism.

The changes at MLSE didn't happen with the Leafs until mainstream media pressure began to raise the "structural issue."

I'm not talking about knowledgeable supporters here but the average fan that goes to games literally doesn't know, or doesn't care whether we have scouts. Heck, I love to follow this team and I can generally only find one name, Tim Regan, associated with a "scouting department." As best as I can tell, that's all we've got.

I've read about Academy development in Ottawa and about associations with local Academy programs here in the GTA. That's good.

That's all I've been able to find.

If that's all that is written about our ownership side and writers write stories to sell papers, clearly, the management structure of TFC isn't a hot topic within the fan circles.

I'm not sure if this is a chicken and egg thing... writers write and it becomes popular or it becomes popular and we have some insightful writing about it... but clearly, it isn't on most people's radar now. Once MLSE shines up a new Coach and/or GM and sticks him in front of the cameras, the desire to have these kinds of conversations will drop dramatically.

This is the time to explore these issues.

[Beach_Red]

I'm not sure if this is a chicken and egg thing... writers write and it becomes popular or it becomes popular and we have some insightful writing about it... but clearly, it isn't on most people's radar now. Once MLSE shines up a new Coach and/or GM and sticks him in front of the cameras, the desire to have these kinds of conversations will drop dramatically.

This is the time to explore these issues.


Some of us have tried but people really aren't interested. Sports are cult of personality stuff, there's not much looking into the structure of the organization beyond, "____ must go," and, "____ is a hero who must be given a position for life."

We all know that successful teams have many, many people in management, none of the big teams are one-man operations, but that's the way we treat them. There was a good article that compared the front office Vancouver put together with the way TFC was set up and it got a little play on here, but not much.

At this point a change in GM or coach of TFC will have little effect on the management culture of the organization. Preki never complained about having to keep all the assistants because to do so would have meant not getting hired - the next hire will know better, too.

Most organizations take on the personality of the person running them - who runs MLSE?

[bgnewf]

...The changes at MLSE didn't happen with the Leafs until mainstream media pressure began to raise the "structural issue."...

I have it on good authority (a journalist who regularly sits there) that there are usually no more than about seven journalists in the press box this season for TFC games. And that is down significantly from the 20+ in season one and two.

[CoachGT]

Heck, I love to follow this team and I can generally only find one name, Tim Regan, associated with a "scouting department." As best as I can tell, that's all we've got.

In fact, they have six or seven, but most are not listed anywhere on the website. I've met at least two others that are scouts for the team. I know a scout who lives in DC and works for NYRB but he isn't listed anywhere either. I've seen some of his reports on college players and on competing MLS teams. They are very good.

If you scout to try and see your name in lights, you're better off not scouting.

The academy that Little Red belongs to is affiliated with TFC. Through their links with minor soccer clubs and academies, the local development market is pretty well scoured. The academy director for Bryst went to the Youth Cup with TFC during the MLS all-star break.

Just because you can't see everything all of the time doesn't mean it isn't there.

[Beach_Red]

^ Okay, Coach, let's put it this way: Are you satisfied with the Front Office structure at TFC?

Not the specific personell choices, but the org chart? It has been increased every year since the first year, hasn't it, with more asistants added to pretty much every department?

[CoachGT]

After having spent years working at Junior hockey teams, I can safely say that I don't give a damn about the front office structure.

Scouting is part of the coaching/ sport operations page, and should not have any connection to front office other than to have budgets approved. In fact, the whole soccer operations piece is not subject to any salary cap except for the players.

Should there be a GM? Yes. Should he have one or two assistants? You bet, one with a background in the sport and another to deal with contracts and league rules. The GM can be the director of sporting operations as well. And the academy should report in to the GM, with its entire staff.

Coach? Yes, plus a few assistants. And a training staff and equipment staff.

How are players chosen? A combination of coach input, scout input and GM input. These three groups have to work as a team, always on the same page. Doesn't mean agreeing 100% of the time, but being able to live with the choices made with the best interest of the team at heart.

Other front office operations - game day operations, concessions, marketing, media relations, ticket sales and so on, they are important, but are not part of soccer operations.

Ownership should set the objectves (in this case, build a strong team that can compete for league championships every year) and make general decisions about the methodology based upon the recommendations of coach and GM. Build through trade, acquisition, draft, development or getting players from elsewhere, or a combination of all of them. If a change in that methodology is requested, then there should be an explanation for it.

Formation and game tactics should be the realm of the coach, as should game day player selection.

The size of front office doesn't matter that much unless everyone is in charge. I don't see that from this organization. If everyone plays to their role, then things should work out, one way or another.

My issue with this team, and it has been from day one, is whether we have made the correct tactical decisions - our style of play just does not seem to match the style of our opponents. Rarely has this team dictated the play and flow of a game - it more often reacts to the style of the opponent. This league doesn't have the depth of talent to play a hard nosed defensive game all of the time. New Jersey Devils' style of play doesn't translate well to MLS. It might work in Italy. It might work in the EPL. But it doesn't work here. And we're trying it for the fourth year in a row.

Front office doesn't play the game.

[Pookie]

Ownership should set the objectves (in this case, build a strong team that can compete for league championships every year) and make general decisions about the methodology based upon the recommendations of coach and GM.

... I'm not sure if you guys are commenting on the same thing. Front Office may mean different things to different people.

I'd like to focus on this one aspect of your reply though, ownership.

In your mind, who is setting the objectives for TFC right now. Is it the Board of Directors? Or is it Richard Peddie (as President) and Tom Anselmi (as Vice President)?

Regardless of the source, there is one perplexing problem. Mo reports into Peddie and Anselmi. Even if a Board is calling the shots, they determine what the Board hears. Likely the Board simply approves a budget and lets the team "run itself." That "team" has this structure of a GM reporting to a VP and President.

Why does a GM have to have to have their soccer related decisions second guessed, vetoed or approved by a President (and Vice President)... with limited Soccer backgrounds? What value does this bring to the team?

Outside of the role, lets focus on these 2 individuals.

The Leafs enjoyed some long playoff runs throughout the 90's and qualified for the post season in every year.

That all ended in 2003 and there was a restructuring. As part of that, both the Leafs and Raptors now had to report into Richard Peddie. His artistry is all over the history books. From forcing player signings (eg. Tie Domi) to hiring inexperienced managers that he could control (eg, John Ferguson Jr and Rob Babcock... and Mo?).

Under Peddie, the Raptors went through 3 straight years of missing the playoffs and 3 head coaches (Wilkens, O'Neill and Mitchell).

Under Peddie, the Leafs went through 3 head coaches (Quinn, Maurice and Wilson) and 4 straight years of missing the playoffs.

Under Peddie, the Reds have... it hurts to say it and you know how it ends.

The Raptors brought in Colangelo and removed the reporting to Peddie. Though he hasn't been an immediate hit, he has steered the team into 2 years of playoff basketball in 4 years.

The Leafs recently did the same in bringing in Burke and removing the Peddie influence. We'll see how it works out in the years ahead.

This current model is a model with failure all over it. You can replace Mo with another person of Peddie/Anselmi's choosing but as long as they oversee decisions related to the soccer team, you and I both know how it will end.

[CoachGT]

... I'm not sure if you guys are commenting on the same thing. Front Office may mean different things to different people.

I'd like to focus on this one aspect of your reply though, ownership.

In your mind, who is setting the objectives for TFC right now. Is it the Board of Directors? Or is it Richard Peddie (as President) and Tom Anselmi (as Vice President)?


We probably are talking about different things. I consider soccer operations to be a tree unto itself.

I think the objectives for the team have been mutually agreed by the Soccer Operations team (GM and his staff) and the board. You've heard the story about Mo having to go to the board to give a post season wrap up report and that is how it happens.

Before condemning the current structure take a looko at other teams not only in MLS but around the world. To the best of my knowledge the only place that uses a combined GM/coach structure is the EPL. While that structure does work in other sports from time to time, it fails as often, too. It would be interesting to do an analysis of ownership/operational structures of perrenial winning teams, but that it something I haven't got the time to do.

Regardless of front office/soccer operations team structures they are not playing the game. Are you telling me you think this team, the guys on the field, are good enough to win a championship? That the thing holding them back is the front office, ownership or the soccer operations structure?

I'd be willing to bet most players don't know and/or give a damn about any of that, as long as they get paid.

[mastermixer]

Guys... I agree with a lot of the speculation going on in this thread about "Mo must go" and whether or not Preki is the righ coach, but I am going to predict both of them (Yes Mo included) will be back next year. I can totally see Tom 'Used Car Salesman' Anselmi making his end of the year analysis saying how the team never had a shot with all the injuries and heavy schedule, and if we had a full squad we would have been better off, and its not Mo's fault.
God, it makes me cringe just thinking it, but I can see it happening.

[menefreghista]

but I am going to predict both of them (Yes Mo included) will be back next year.

I think Mo Johnston is pretty much done. It will take a miracle to save his job now.

I bet the TFC FO is shitting in their pants with the thought that we could be virtually eliminated from the playoffs before they even send out the season ticket renewal packages.

[TFC Cityboy]

I think Mo Johnston is pretty much done. It will take a miracle to save his job now.

I bet the TFC FO is shitting in their pants with the thought that we could be virtually eliminated from the playoffs before they even send out the season ticket renewal packages.

Yep, and they are likely also preparing to send the "cough up now for MLS Final tickets" while we are mathematically in the mix for play-offs.

ST renewal rate will drop this year - especially if they have the temerity to increase by more than the rate of inflation.
The "14,000" on the waitlist is bogus too...how many bite at the STs at the >$600 level? Not many I bet. I bet the majority is us lot in the cheap seats on the waitlist for more cheap seats.

I know it's been discussed before in other threads but the club needs to decide what to do with the North Stand for 2011. It's been embarassing to see the lack of demand for seats in there in a so-called "sold-out" stadium.

Results this week will decide our fate for the season. Failure to pick up 4-6 points and we're done.

[scooterTFC]

I think Pookie's comments on managment structure are spot on. Fans of TFC, Raptors, and Leaf's all tend to comment that MLSE seems more focused on corporate profits then on competive success of the teams. I disagree with the popular sentiment that MLSE doesn't care about wins as long as they make money. Winning is good for business, the problem is MLSE just can't figure out how to win. In profesional sports the 'core product' is a competitive team and the 'whole product' is everything else that goes around it (uniforms, branding, game day experience, etc). MLSE is a company that seems very focused on the 'whole product' but totally inept at development of the 'core product'.


Look at other industries, the most succesful companies over the long run are excellent at the development of the 'core product'. Take consumer packaged goods as an example, Proctor & Gamble is just better at developing laundry detergent, cleaning products and shaving products then their competition. They' ve built the competency within their organization to be good at it and they succeeed because of it.

What we are seeing with TFC is really sympton of a greater issue with MLSE as a whole. MLSE is a company that developes and sells bad products. Its just that simple. Toronto sports fans will suffer until they get the managment team in place that knows how invest in the development of the their core products.

[ManUtd4ever]

Thankfully, the parameters in which Mo would retain his current position within the organization were made quite clear by Tom Anselmi earlier this season. Despite any potential success for TFC in the CONCACAF Champions League it's MLS playoffs or bust as far as Mo is concerned...

[menefreghista]

Last year's renewal deadline was Oct. 16. If this years is around the same time and based on our current form its likely we will be eliminated from the playoffs by than.

I can see Mo Johnston being fired as a way to placate the fans.

[Chevy]

^^ Makes sense. There really isn't any reason to keep a lame-duck GM around after the summer transfer window. Better get a head start on 2011.

[Hitcho]

IMO Preki is a average coach period. He can get your team to the playoffs, but due to the system that he chooses to play that is it. Look at his time at Chivas got them to the playoffs and then out in the first round.

Preki's problem' from people who are around the squad are the following:

Control freak - runs practice from start to finish uses his assistants vey rarely


Sorry hit the wrong button. cont from previous post:

Training technique - cares a lot about physical conditioning runs the players ragged in practice from day one. (I understand in the pre season but in the season I think this should not be done)

Lack of practice in final third - 95% practice I was told was either conditioning or defensive postioning, no real direction is given to the players in the final third - this quite noticeable if you watch the team.

Style of play - Preki wants a defensive system first and pressure up top. Problem with this is this style of soccer is almost as fun as watching paint dry. It will be able to make the palyoffs but more than that won't work as in a league with parity you need players to have the freedom for their individual talents to break through.

Qualities he looks for in players - Preki doesn't want DP or players with extremly high salaries for this league due to his system. He wants players who make between $100k - $200K a year that are interchangable. He favours hard work over skill.


Section 117 has hit the nail on the head.

This is the Preki problem in a nutshell for me. Mo has to go, he has no clue how to build a decent squad and no idea how to plan for the future, or even the following season. Preki should follow him out the door for the reasons set out above.

As for the "another season of re-building would be a bad thing" arguments, we've never actually had to RE-build because to do that you have to have built something in the first place. If you compare TFC to a lump of moulding clay, we've been in the kneading and slapping stage since 2007. At no point has Mo managed to start turning the shapeless lump into a vase or bowl (and he's never been anywhere fucking near a gravy boat). This is because he has no clue what he's building. One season he tries to bring in a whole bunch of seasoned Britain based players. Then he'll try and bring in as many Canadians as he can. Then he switches focus to signing youth players and somewhere in between he stuffed in some old timers. There was never a coherent plan with a long term vision. His 5 year plan is 5 years of blowing up and starting over again without having achieved anything the year before.

We need a new GM who has a clear picture of the vase/bowl/gravy boat he wants to shape the clay into and then sets about doing it, and a coach who can take a well moulded squad and get it playing good football (and by good I mean good enough to regularly win games in MLS with more than one basic tactical approach, not good in the Arsenal/Barca/Pure sense).

[__wowza]

I disagree with the popular sentiment that MLSE doesn't care about wins as long as they make money. Winning is good for business, the problem is MLSE just can't figure out how to win. In profesional sports the 'core product' is a competitive team and the 'whole product' is everything else that goes around it (uniforms, branding, game day experience, etc). MLSE is a company that seems very focused on the 'whole product' but totally inept at development of the 'core product'.

although i agree with this statement in part, i'd like to hope that they aren't that dumb. i believe that they do know how to win, but it's not justifiable to the bottom line. MLSE is a faceless corporation, and as a corporation their bottom line is profit. it's very hard to pin down who exactly is pulling the trigger. mo must go, okay, but whose the one that's listening? is there a particular person, or is it the entity that is MLSE? our outrage has been paramount to be gang raped in the dark. we don't know whose fucking us, but we'll be damned if we don't blame the first person we see when the lights go back on. if MLSE as a corporation doesn't turn a profit, they're held accountable to their board of directors which is held accountable by their shareholders. so, i'd like to then alter your statement to say: winning is BETTER for business.

MLSE are in no way hurting in the profitability of their teams. as a matter of fact, all of their teams are quite profitable separately run entities, and that's something they're comfortable with. could they make more money? yes, of course. would they be interested in spending more money to do so? highly unlikely in the world of professional sports run by an organization like that. thus comes the toronto sports fan i guess. i bought two tickets 24 rows back for $480. yet i can go to montreal and spend $240 for two tickets, 2 rows from the ice, right next to the penalty box. the fact that venues are still adequately packed is what creates the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality" that they're content on providing, and what we're content with seeing.

MLSE does not foster a winning culture,
they simply foster a sports culture

and they do a damn good job of doing it.

[scooterTFC]

although i agree with this statement in part, i'd like to hope that they aren't that dumb. i believe that they do know how to win, but it's not justifiable to the bottom line.

This is where we differ in opinion. My opinion is that MLSE, as a corporation, is just bad at building winning teams. Where as you seem to be saying that incremental effort/cost of building winning teams isn't ROI positive. I'm not saying that MLSE exec's are dumb, I'm just saying that in the era of salary caps building profitable winning teams requires a managment skill that they lack. If you look at the Forbes valuations for profesional sports teams/franchises those with winning traditions tend to be worht more. Of course the The Toronto Maple Leafs are an exception to that trend/pattern. So

[maninb]

This nonsense of only giving a coach 1 year OR LESS to build a winning team has got to stop...Preki MUST be given another year...MLSE WILL NEVER be able to get a good manager if they know they only have 1 year to build OR ELSE!!!!

[ManUtd4ever]

The MLSE debate has been raging on for years around here. MLSE has proven time and time again that the board of governors is not averse to allocating siginificant financial resources to the Leafs, Raptors, and TFC franchises. The issue of accountability is also crystal clear and falls on the shoulders of Burke, Colangelo, and Mo.

In my opinion, the main issue in Toronto's sports landscape is that all of the above noted general managers have been guilty of abandoning the long term approach to building a successful franchise that is sustainable in the interest of trying to facilitate putting a winning product on the ice/court/pitch in the immediate future. Unfortunately, there are no viable shortcuts in professional sports which has been evident to the masochistic fans in Toronto. The only GM in this city that has employed the right approach is Alex Anthopoulos...

[Roogsy]

True, true, true. And that comes down to the board at MLSE not having the stomach to endure some rough seasons in order to come out with a better product 3 or 4 years later. Instead we endure those rough seasons nonetheless but without a better product in the end. That makes the whole exercise even more difficult to swallow.

[Pookie]

MLSE are in no way hurting in the profitability of their teams. as a matter of fact, all of their teams are quite profitable separately run entities, and that's something they're comfortable with.

Well, only until recently were they separately run. With Peddie/Anselmi in their roles of President and VP respectively, they were at the top of the org chart for all 3 teams at one point or another. That changed with Colangelo and the Raptors, leaving TFC and the Leafs as the groups effectively run by these 2 individuals.

The Leafs couldn't get Burke without changing this and they bowed to pressure and now the Leafs and Raptors are separately run.

TFC still enjoys the management oversight and wisdom of Misters Peddie and Anselmi.

I would agree that MLSE is profit driven and winning is profitable for business. They WANT to win. Absolutely no doubt. Leafs had an insanely high payroll before the cap. Even with the cap, they spend. They dropped $2.7M into JDG and Mista.

Their problem has always been that they chase the short term picture in their quest to win now and it almost always never works. It's signing veteran players, trading youth and draft picks and creating a revolving door policy with respect to coaches.

Perhaps it is most evidenced by their false belief that they know what is best and want to put the team in their own hands. Clearly, they are financially successful gentlemen and they got that way by controlling their destiny and calling their own shots. But that has resulted in hiring inexperienced GMs (Babcock, JFJ and Mo for all 3 teams) that they could control and has resulted in failure for all 3 clubs.

The Leafs and Raptors are moving in the right direction while TFC seems stuck, largely because no one wants to challenge this failed model. Until it changes, I have little optimism for our future.

[ManUtd4ever]

True, true, true. And that comes down to the board at MLSE not having the stomach to endure some rough seasons in order to come out with a better product 3 or 4 years later. Instead we endure those rough seasons nonetheless but without a better product in the end. That makes the whole exercise even more difficult to swallow.

Exactly, and we have to witness the vicious cycle of mediocrity. How long will it be before MLSE realizes that most fans in Toronto are intelligent and patient enough to support its franchises through the growing pains associated with building a team that can be a perennial contender?

[rocker]

The Leafs and Raptors are moving in the right direction

Some might disagree with you on that! The Raps have been stagnant. The Leafs haven't improved with Burke.

[Pookie]

^ this is what I mean by short term focus though.

In Raptorland, they went through 3 straight years of missing the playoffs and 3 head coaches under Peddie/Anselmi. Colangelo got them into the playoffs 2 of 4 years. That is an improvement but things don't improve overnight.

Clearly Burke's team had a rough go last year but he has purged the roster, rid them of some very difficult contracts (Blake, Toskala, etc). They are now the youngest team in the NHL and we'll have to see how it plays out.

Under a short term watch of Peddie and Anselmi, Burke would likely be gone at the end of this season if he didn't make the playoffs. That would lead him to sign all kinds of overpriced free agents and trade youth for veterans as he tried to keep his job.

I also don't think TFC would turn it around in a season or two by getting rid of the management structure. But what's the alternative? A 5th head coach? Another inexperienced GM?

[Beach_Red]

In my opinion, the main issue in Toronto's sports landscape is that all of the above noted general managers have been guilty of abandoning the long term approach to building a successful franchise that is sustainable in the interest of trying to facilitate putting a winning product on the ice/court/pitch in the immediate future...


Yes, but that's the result of the management style MLSE use. The GMs want to keep their jobs an the ownership judge them on incremental improvements.

From the very beginning TFC was set-up to fail. The entire coaching staff were given one year contracts to start. That meant a lot of coaches simply turned down the job. After the first season they were all again offered one-year contracts so most of them went back home. A series of one-year contracts won't get many guys to move their families to a new city in a new country.

On one year contracts every decision a coach/manager makes is to ensure short-term gain so he can keep his job another year.

Is that really the way to start an expansion team?

[__wowza]

This is where we differ in opinion. My opinion is that MLSE, as a corporation, is just bad at building winning teams. Where as you seem to be saying that incremental effort/cost of building winning teams isn't ROI positive. I'm not saying that MLSE exec's are dumb, I'm just saying that in the era of salary caps building profitable winning teams requires a managment skill that they lack. If you look at the Forbes valuations for profesional sports teams/franchises those with winning traditions tend to be worht more. Of course the The Toronto Maple Leafs are an exception to that trend/pattern. So

i think it's because the maple leafs are so steeped in canadian and hockey tradition that you can't separate the team from our national identity. TML are just an anomaly in professional sports in general.

i think i'm just agreeing in different words. i do think MLSE is inept at building a winning team, i may be contradicting myself there, but i do believe that as long as they're turning a healthy profit, they won't exert any effort to building a winning team.

[ManUtd4ever]

Yes, but that's the result of the management style MLSE use. The GMs want to keep their jobs an the ownership judge them on incremental improvements.

From the very beginning TFC was set-up to fail. The entire coaching staff were given one year contracts to start. That meant a lot of coaches simply turned down the job. After the first season they were all again offered one-year contracts so most of them went back home. A series of one-year contracts won't get many guys to move their families to a new city in a new country.

On one year contracts every decision a coach/manager makes is to ensure short-term gain so he can keep his job another year.

Is that really the way to start an expansion team?

Mo initially signed a multi year contract when he was hired by MLSE so there was no pressure on him to put a winning product on the pitch in the first couple of seasons. If his infamous "5 year plan" had any semblence of structure and direction we wouldn't be having this conversation...

[supersaint]

Preki has been disappointing, we were one game away from a playoff spot last season, I dont think we will be that close this season. I like section 117s posting on Preki.
How long did it take him to move Garcia to the outside of the back four for Gods sake. He does like plumbers, but he cannot coach the more gifted and also more inconsistent players. If everyone works their arse off in a game he is happy. We look awful in the opposing teams defensive area.
I also worry that he is scaring off any potential new fans with the style he has us playing. I would like to see a new GM and a new coach with vision. Preki is a PR nightmare and does nothing to attract casual followers of the sport to the team. I even think he is putting off some regulars. I love the game with a passion, but some of our games this season have been unwatchable.

[Pookie]

Mo initially signed a multi year contract when he was hired by MLSE so there was no pressure on him to put a winning product on the pitch in the first couple of seasons. If his infamous "5 year plan" had any semblence of structure and direction we wouldn't be having this conversation...

Let's talk about the plan and pressure.

The decision to hire him was made by Peddie and Anselmi, the same fellows who hired Babcock and JFJ to report into them. They have demonstrated a desire to hire inexperienced GMs and then "influence them" as they see fit.

You assume there was no pressure exerted on Mo, by those with a track record of exerting pressure on their hires, over the course of his 5 year plan.

As everyone points out, MLSE is about profit. Dropping $5.5M into grass and a few more $$$ into a stadium expansion carry a "win now" tag. The ONLY thing that pays for those investments are home game dates. You get those by getting in the CCL and MLS Playoffs. We failed at the CCL, only to bow out after 1 home date the following year. This year is slightly different. We failed at the MLS Playoffs every year since inception.

Anselmi and Peddie want to win now. These expenses are real in the current year and "trading profit" depends on revenue outpacing expenses. Those failures do nothing for the bottom line.

I don't know what goes on in the Board Room but the recipe for a win now, pressure filled environment is right there in the profit line that Peddie and Anselmi are expected to deliver.

[Beach_Red]

Mo initially signed a multi year contract when he was hired by MLSE so there was no pressure on him to put a winning product on the pitch in the first couple of seasons. If his infamous "5 year plan" had any semblence of structure and direction we wouldn't be having this conversation...


How many seasons did the contract cover? I seem to remember reading it only ran until the end of the first season.

And if anyone can find a quote that uses the phrase, "five year plan," I'd like to see it. All I've ever been able to find is MLSE saying that it woud take five years for an expansion team to become competitive enough to challenge for a title. That may be splitting hairs, but I never saw anyone use the word "plan."

And does anyone know who else interviewed for the job?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I also don't think TFC would turn it around in a season or two by getting rid of the management structure. But what's the alternative? A 5th head coach? Another inexperienced GM?

This is a problem for me as well

[ensco]

They have demonstrated a desire to hire inexperienced GMs and then "influence them" as they see fit.

One could rephrase: whenever they can, they hire inexpensively, because they themselves are part of the administrative overhead, and the more people that are hired like Burke (ie with autonomy and big contracts), the more people might wonder exactly what it is that Peddie and Anselmi do for their big contracts.

[Oldtimer]

And if anyone can find a quote that uses the phrase, "five year plan," I'd like to see it. All I've ever been able to find is MLSE saying that it woud take five years for an expansion team to become competitive enough to challenge for a title. That may be splitting hairs, but I never saw anyone use the word "plan."

And does anyone know who else interviewed for the job?

The "Five Year Plan" was said several times by MoJo in interviews, but I don't remember it being reported in print. Enough of us remember him saying it... it's not an urban legend. He may have said it in a wordier form, "Five Year Plan" is a short form for what he said.

MLSE tried to get Frank Yallop (who is Canadian, by the way), but he wasn't interested. MoJo was "Plan B."

[ManUtd4ever]

Let's talk about the plan and pressure.

The decision to hire him was made by Peddie and Anselmi, the same fellows who hired Babcock and JFJ to report into them. They have demonstrated a desire to hire inexperienced GMs and then "influence them" as they see fit.

You assume there was no pressure exerted on Mo, by those with a track record of exerting pressure on their hires, over the course of his 5 year plan.

As everyone points out, MLSE is about profit. Dropping $5.5M into grass and a few more $$$ into a stadium expansion carry a "win now" tag. The ONLY thing that pays for those investments are home game dates. You get those by getting in the CCL and MLS Playoffs. We failed at the CCL, only to bow out after 1 home date the following year. This year is slightly different. We failed at the MLS Playoffs every year since inception.

Anselmi and Peddie want to win now. These expenses are real in the current year and "trading profit" depends on revenue outpacing expenses. Those failures do nothing for the bottom line.

I don't know what goes on in the Board Room but the recipe for a win now, pressure filled environment is right there in the profit line that Peddie and Anselmi are expected to deliver.

I absolutely agree that the pressure to win now has intensified last season and even moreso this year. My point was that Mo was initially hired with the intent of building a winner over time and has failed miserably in executing that plan...

[ManUtd4ever]

How many seasons did the contract cover? I seem to remember reading it only ran until the end of the first season.

And if anyone can find a quote that uses the phrase, "five year plan," I'd like to see it. All I've ever been able to find is MLSE saying that it woud take five years for an expansion team to become competitive enough to challenge for a title. That may be splitting hairs, but I never saw anyone use the word "plan."

And does anyone know who else interviewed for the job?

I'm on my blackberry at the moment and it's difficult to find the appropriate link but if memory serves me correctly I believe Mo initially signed a 3 year contract which was eventually extended until the end of the season. In any case, my point is that Mo was given the opportunity to build TFC with long term goals in mind and abandoned that approach of his own volition at his own peril...

[rocker]

I always said that 3 years is enough to take a team from shit to contention. Mo's had 4, which is more than enough.

Bruce Arena turned around LA in about 1 year. Sigi Schmidt turned around Columbus in 3 seasons (first 2 seasons out of the playoffs, then 3rd season MLS Cup). Yallop and his GM have taken 3 seasons to get them to the playoffs (that is, if they make it this year... if they don't, that's 3 seasons of no playoffs for Yallop). Seattle made the playoffs in year 1. Kreis in RSL went from out of playoffs in 2007 to MLS Cup in 2009 to an even better team this year.

3 years is a decent time. This talk of "long term" need not be that long, in my opinion. The problem is, if you don't hire the right guys (and Kreis + GM Legerway, for example, were probably the biggest gambles of that bunch), you risk being mediocre again for a few years.

Notice that all my examples above have good MLS experience, either as a player or coach.

I still think Preki should be given more than 1 year. Perhaps make him the GM, like Arena does both in LA. Then you have continuity but Mo doesn't get rewarded for a 5th season.

[AdamoTheGreat]

http://site.steelcityauctions.com/moe.jpg

[Beach_Red]

Notice that all my examples above have good MLS experience, either as a player or coach.



And at least one of them turned down the job. Be nice to know why and if it'll happen again with the next qualified guy.

[menefreghista]

And at least one of them turned down the job. Be nice to know why and if it'll happen again with the next qualified guy.

Yallop was the Canadian national team manager when he was approached and turned down the job. Did MLSE not offer him enough money? Who knows?

Just a few months after turning down TFC Yallop quit as Canada's manager and took over the LA Galaxy.

It is interesting that Yallop has turned the Earthquake into a playoff contender in their 3rd season, with way less resources than TFC has.

[scooterTFC]

One could rephrase: whenever they can, they hire inexpensively, because they themselves are part of the administrative overhead, and the more people that are hired like Burke (ie with autonomy and big contracts), the more people might wonder exactly what it is that Peddie and Anselmi do for their big contracts.

GM's or 'Team President's', like Mo, Burke, and Colangelo aren't really business executives or 'managment in the eyes of the companys' managment team. The company's actual managment team, view's them as 'talent', in the entertainment industry sense of the word. GM/Team Presidents are effectively 'on stage' employees much like the players and coaches ('on stage' meaning part of the core product that customer is buying). They might give them big titles, but they aren't accountable for the overall business, they are just a cost centre, they hire staff and manage a budget for payroll, operations, travel etc. They don't have a quota for revenue, they aren't cutting deals for TV rights or sponsorship or managing ticket sales departments.

[MFG1]

I am pretty much done after this year, it would take a miracle to bring me back to buy next years tickets. I am pretty sure with this years price increase my tickets will have doubled by the fifth year. They wont do anything till the end of the season with regards to Mo, so I would have paid for another season of rebuilding, rebranding multiple player moves and their expectation for us to be patient and hope.
I dont expect them to win every game, but I would rather save my money and just watch it on TV.
Preki cant solve our problems , and his style , shows no entertainment value, Mo should have been out two years ago. Playoffs or not, it is still perfume on a pig.

[crozack]

Very few coaches could do for TFC what Preki has done.
A workman like approach is exactly what this team needed and he has delivered. Boys, he's been here not even for a full season yet.....look at what he has done with limited talent.
This next month is critical....instead of ripping the team now, lets get behind them for this play-off push. We'll have all the time in the world to dicuss this teams failures, season ticket price increases, lack of leadership and so on after the season is over.

I for one am going to enjoy this ride and hope something magical happens.

ps...i think i smoke too much weed

[Pachuco]

Very few coaches could do for TFC what Preki has done.
A workman like approach is exactly what this team needed and he has delivered. Boys, he's been here not even for a full season yet.....look at what he has done with limited talent.
This next month is critical....instead of ripping the team now, lets get behind them for this play-off push. We'll have all the time in the world to dicuss this teams failures, season ticket price increases, lack of leadership and so on after the season is over.

I for one am going to enjoy this ride and hope something magical happens.

ps...i think i smoke too much weed

You mean like Carver and Cummins where they got us to a win from making the playoffs? And we are talking about Carver and Cummins here. If you think we'll be 1 win away from making the playoffs by seasons end please give me your weed :)

[Beach_Red]

You mean like Carver and Cummins where they got us to a win from making the playoffs? And we are talking about Carver and Cummins here. If you think we'll be 1 win away from making the playoffs by seasons end please give me your weed :)


Probably this year it will come down to the last game again but only because the other teams in the "race" for the last spot are just as inconsistent as TFC.

[Oldtimer]

The decision to hire him was made by Peddie and Anselmi, the same fellows who hired Babcock and JFJ to report into them. They have demonstrated a desire to hire inexperienced GMs and then "influence them" as they see fit.


I've been thinking over what you wrote the other day, and I think that I don't really agree with this idea (though it has a plausible ring to it given MLSE politics). Frank Yallop was their first choice in coaches, and he's not someone they could easily "control."

Unlike hockey, Peddie and Anselmi know they know nothing about soccer, so they let Mo do his thing. Unfortunately, Mo is less of an "expert" than they thought.

Everyone is forgetting that the "five year plan" meant having a cup contender in year 4. Now just getting into the playoffs will be seen as a success.

[Section 117]

Guys, the more I think about this team and what needs to be done the more getting rid of Preki might not be the answer yet. Firing Mo must be done and if TFC is smart they will do this prior to our season tickets get renewed or the backlash will be greater than they think

What I propose is this get a GM that has more contacts in Europe and or South America surround him with experienced MLS people ala Shite Bulls did this summer. Once you have this in place give Preki next season to produce or he is gone.

This gives the squad the same coach for two years which we never had, which will build our defensive structure and have Preki give control to one of his assitants (Danny) to work on the final third of the pitch... This would do two things IMO give Danny the proper experience to be groomed as a potential coach (not syaing right now) and give the squad more direction in the final third as we are lacking in that area badly.

We can't continue to have a revolving door for both players and coaches as this does not build stability. For the first time I can say that we have a decent foundation to build around. What is required is a proper wide player as we play with no width, a playmaker and a striker. I hope to see TFC make the right decision as if they increase our prices and not give us reason for hope it will be a long off season and the season ticket renewal rate will be defintely lower then their expectations and next year there will be even more empty seats.

[Beach_Red]

Unlike hockey, Peddie and Anselmi know they know nothing about soccer, so they let Mo do his thing. Unfortunately, Mo is less of an "expert" than they thought.




Shouldn't they have to answer for that? There certainly wasn't enough on his resume to hand over the entire building and running of the team to him. Unless there are some repercussion for that decision, why do we think the decision making will improve?

[Cashcleaner]

This is essentially my position, while I can relate to some of the complaints Roogsy mentions above.

However, I have one big caveat:

I support getting rid of Mo, and I also support giving the new GM the right to hire his own coach, if he so chooses. If that means Preki goes, then so be it. It wouldn't be right to hire a GM, and then force him to be saddled with the previous coach if he wanted to hire his own guy.

I think Preki deserves a shot with a better GM at the helm, but only if that GM will have him, essentially.

- Scott

It's hard to argue with logic like that. It's imperative to have a good relationship between a GM and his subordinates, and if a replacement for Mo did insist on hand-picking his staff, it wouldn't do the club any good to deny him that.

[Boris]

Guys, the more I think about this team and what needs to be done the more getting rid of Preki might not be the answer yet. Firing Mo must be done and if TFC is smart they will do this prior to our season tickets get renewed or the backlash will be greater than they think

What I propose is this get a GM that has more contacts in Europe and or South America surround him with experienced MLS people ala Shite Bulls did this summer. Once you have this in place give Preki next season to produce or he is gone.

This gives the squad the same coach for two years which we never had, which will build our defensive structure and have Preki give control to one of his assitants (Danny) to work on the final third of the pitch... This would do two things IMO give Danny the proper experience to be groomed as a potential coach (not syaing right now) and give the squad more direction in the final third as we are lacking in that area badly.

We can't continue to have a revolving door for both players and coaches as this does not build stability. For the first time I can say that we have a decent foundation to build around. What is required is a proper wide player as we play with no width, a playmaker and a striker. I hope to see TFC make the right decision as if they increase our prices and not give us reason for hope it will be a long off season and the season ticket renewal rate will be defintely lower then their expectations and next year there will be even more empty seats.


This right here is essential.
I think apart from the MLS Cup that MLSE is waiting on our renewals for outside reasons such as this. Lets be realistic. All of our patience is wearing thin.

We also need to see what angle to take.
What is it that we want. This is for you people to help me decide.

- I am fearful that we will have a new GM whose worse.
- I am still upset at how our team has treated our players
- I am upset that there is so much secrecy with our team
- I am fearful that our ticket prices will become too much for the true supporters.

Leets keep this list going and develop a true plan.

[reggie]

i am fearful that mo will be back and that we will 12 players at training camp again..

[Wull]

This right here is essential.
I think apart from the MLS Cup that MLSE is waiting on our renewals for outside reasons such as this. Lets be realistic. All of our patience is wearing thin.

We also need to see what angle to take.
What is it that we want. This is for you people to help me decide.

- I am fearful that we will have a new GM whose worse.
- I am still upset at how our team has treated our players
- I am upset that there is so much secrecy with our team
- I am fearful that our ticket prices will become too much for the true supporters.

Leets keep this list going and develop a true plan.


I want the supporters section to be opened up to people who want to stand and sing and cheer on the team for 90 minutes. Far too many in that section are lifeless and only there because it's the cheap seats. Move them to another cheap section like 104 and let's get the atmosphere up to Cruz Azul and Motagua levels every game

[Boris]

I want the supporters section to be opened up to people who want to stand and sing and cheer on the team for 90 minutes. Far too many in that section are lifeless and only there because it's the cheap seats. Move them to another cheap section like 104 and let's get the atmosphere up to Cruz Azul and Motagua levels every game

This can only happen with two major obstacles in our way:

1 - scalpers
2 - we need proper relocation

....an NO...the North end is NOT AN OPTION .......

[v00d00daddy]

I want the supporters section to be opened up to people who want to stand and sing and cheer on the team for 90 minutes. Far too many in that section are lifeless and only there because it's the cheap seats. Move them to another cheap section like 104 and let's get the atmosphere up to Cruz Azul and Motagua levels every game

Uhh...pardon me?

Correction sir. The people that are in the the south end/cheap seats are the people who ponied up and bought season tickets for this club on day one.

I'm one of those people.

I didn't have to wait until it became the "in" thing to do...like SO many other people who preach about how hardcore they are.

Make your seat as loud and Cruz Azulish as you like but please don't talk about moving people who were here before you.

If you don't like where you are..you can move. It's really that simple.

As for Preki....I still have faith. I know our playoff chances are pretty slim but I still think this season has seen progress. And...if he's given another year (that's a big if cause I really hope Mo is fired and the new GM will probably want his own guy) than I think we'll be even better next year.

Here's hoping.

[Wull]

Uhh...pardon me?

Correction sir. The people that are in the the south end/cheap seats are the people who ponied up and bought season tickets for this club on day one.

I'm one of those people.

I didn't have to wait until it became the "in" thing to do...like SO many other people who preach about how hardcore they are.

Make your seat as loud and Cruz Azulish as you like but please don't talk about moving people who were here before you.

If you don't like where you are..you can move. It's really that simple.

As for Preki....I still have faith. I know our playoff chances are pretty slim but I still think this season has seen progress. And...if he's given another year (that's a big if cause I really hope Mo is fired and the new GM will probably want his own guy) than I think we'll be even better next year.

Here's hoping.

you're very easily offended, I'm in the same seat in the south stand week in and week out. My point is there are seats there that are filled by different people every week whether it be from scalpers or other people who just don't show up and sell them. Most of them just stand (or in some cases sit) there silently for the whole game. That's their right to do so having paid for it but, as was my point, you could accommodate them elsewhere for the same price if the club is interested in working with the supporters to make the atmosphere more like CCL games the majority of the time.