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View Full Version : Big change in roster rules for Cdn teams



Oldtimer
09-01-2010, 02:52 PM
From an article on the Whitecaps:



U.S. players on the Vancouver and Toronto rosters next year will be considered "domestic" players so each squad will have to carry a minimum of 16 U.S. and Canadian players, likely with a minimum of eight Canadians [although the league and the clubs are currently discussing that number].
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Caps+will+feature+little+Canadian+content/3467433/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Caps+will+feature+little+Canadian+content/3467433/story.html#ixzz0yJDxBgoW)

pekduck
09-01-2010, 02:54 PM
interesting... about time they count both US and CAN players as domestic for all teams.. when you have a league that's for both countries (albeit counted as us division 1)

Oldtimer
09-01-2010, 02:55 PM
interesting... about time they count both US and CAN players as domestic for all teams.. when you have a league that's for both countries (albeit counted as us division 1)

No, Canadians won't count as domestic for US teams.

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-01-2010, 03:08 PM
Brutal. Just another excuse to stock the team with mediocre NCAA players.

razor787
09-01-2010, 03:10 PM
How is this supposed to help grow canadian players?

pekduck
09-01-2010, 03:15 PM
No, Canadians won't count as domestic for US teams.


How is this supposed to help grow canadian players?

So this rule ONLY applies to the 3 Canadian teams??? Hmmm....

Shakes McQueen
09-01-2010, 03:55 PM
How is this supposed to help grow canadian players?

The point of MLS was never to help grow Canadian soccer. The point of MLS was to help grow AMERICAN soccer... and Canadian teams were later allowed to join the league.

If you frequent various MLS message boards and whatnot, you will still see people complaining that no more Canadian teams should be permitted to join the league, and that we should go and make our own league.

I'm happy that US players will now be considered domestic, but I'm trouble by the potential requirement to still carry a certain number of Canadian players. Canada just doesn't have a good talent pool at all.

- Scott

__wowza
09-01-2010, 04:01 PM
they should really use this as a grandfathered clause that they can gently ease both teams out of over time. something along the lines of:

2011/12 - 8 US domestic players
2013/14 - 4 US domestic players
2016/17 - US domestic players count as internationals

UltraSuperMegaMo
09-01-2010, 04:20 PM
This just opens the door to have more Jacob Petersons on the roster. TFC doesn't have the right people in place to develop talent, Canadian or otherwise.

The MLS is far to dependant on NCAA players. Watch a NCAA game, it make the CSL look like La Liga. Not enough Canadian players out there? Possibly. TFC wouldn't know, I don't think they even have a Canadian scout.

Blizzard
09-01-2010, 04:51 PM
How is this supposed to help grow canadian players?

MLS as a whole doesn't care about this. Certainly they are fully accepting of Canadians developing on Canadian teams but we should not forget that MLS is an American league that was founded to assist the development of soccer in the USA.

We are late-comers to their party.

Additionally (and this has been discussed here and elsewhere), apparently, their are legal impediments in place (that did not exist during the life of the NASL) that make it impossible for Canadians to be treated as domestic players in the USA.

Toronto Ruffrider
09-01-2010, 04:54 PM
MLS as a whole doesn't care about this. Certainly they are fully accepting of Canadians developing on Canadian teams but we should not forget that MLS is an American league that was founded to assist the development of soccer in the USA.

We are late-comers to their party.

Additionally (and this has been discussed here and elsewhere), apparently, their are legal impediments in place (that did not exist during the life of the NASL) that make it impossible for Canadians to be treated as domestic players in the USA.

I was under the impression that in USL-1, and later USSF-D2, Canadians and Americans were considered domestic players on any team, as was the case in the NASL. Can anyone confirm this?

troy1982
09-01-2010, 07:45 PM
Under US law an american company can't favour a foreign worker from one country over one from another. So Canadian players can't be treated favourably compared to other foreign players.

SilverSamurai
09-01-2010, 08:01 PM
No sir, I don't like it. Not 1 bit.
I'm all for counting a certain # of US players as domestics (say 4) but blurring the lines, completely, no way.

ArmenJBX
09-01-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm not familiar with the way other leagues work, but for example, in the NHL, where there are several Canadian teams, is there a difference between Canadian and American players? ie. do they all count as domestic?

brad
09-01-2010, 08:36 PM
Good for TFC and the Whitecaps, bad for Canada.

menefreghista
09-01-2010, 10:07 PM
apparently, their are legal impediments in place (that did not exist during the life of the NASL) that make it impossible for Canadians to be treated as domestic players in the USA.

If this rule exists than how come the USL gets away with it? They would have to follow the same so called labour constraints that MLS must follow.

I call bullshit on this.


I'm not familiar with the way other leagues work, but for example, in the NHL, where there are several Canadian teams, is there a difference between Canadian and American players? ie. do they all count as domestic?

There is no rule in the NHL. You could have a team with 23 Russians if you wanted.

AL-MO
09-01-2010, 10:19 PM
interesting... about time they count both US and CAN players as domestic for all teams.. when you have a league that's for both countries (albeit counted as us division 1)


I remember hearing Don Garber say that he was interested in this but it would be against US labour laws. (you can't let one countries citizens be equal to US citizens and discriminate against everyone else - something along those lines)

menefreghista
09-01-2010, 10:21 PM
I remember hearing Don Garber say that he was interested in this but it would be against US labour laws. (you can't let one countries citizens be equal to US citizens and discriminate against everyone else - something along those lines)

Again, that's just political bullshit from Garber.

If anything it has more to do with pressure from the USSF than any labour law. Which is a shame because it appears the CSA is being totally lame on this issue and letting the Canadian MLS teams get away with a bad rule. The should be more firm about the domestic rule but I guess that's asking too much.

rocker
09-02-2010, 11:36 AM
Again, that's just political bullshit from Garber.

If anything it has more to do with pressure from the USSF than any labour law. Which is a shame because it appears the CSA is being totally lame on this issue and letting the Canadian MLS teams get away with a bad rule. The should be more firm about the domestic rule but I guess that's asking too much.

I'd like to ask a labour lawyer. A law is a law.

I don't have any problem with a US league promoting US players though. That's our problem, not theirs.

Technorgasm
09-02-2010, 11:40 AM
I thought the old rules supported my sectarian views about Canada v USA.
May be better for the TFC but. . not for the Techno.

Oldtimer
09-02-2010, 12:09 PM
MLS can't favour Canadian foreigners over other foreigners, that's the law.

However, MLS does have a choice: no domestic rule. Then Canadian, Spanish, Mexican, Russian, English or whatever players can play for any club. I would argue, though, that would defeat one of the primary purposes for setting up MLS in the first place.

Canada doesn't have a similar law, that's why you can see preferential treatment for Americans on Canadian teams.

JonO
09-02-2010, 12:34 PM
MLS can't favour Canadian foreigners over other foreigners, that's the law.
I'm going to see if I can verify this. Aren't Canadians (and Mexicans) already favoured under NAFTA?

Fort York Redcoat
09-02-2010, 12:55 PM
MLS- Makin it up as we go along.

How many Canadian players should our teams have to have on the roster to ensure Canadian growth?

Oldtimer
09-02-2010, 01:10 PM
I'm going to see if I can verify this. Aren't Canadians (and Mexicans) already favoured under NAFTA?

Employees employed by employers of one country have the right to work for their foreign employees in another country. This is already happening. TFC's players are employed by a foreign entity (MLS) but can work in Canada. Remember, they don't work for MLSE.

It's not at all relevant to roster restrictions.

J .
09-02-2010, 02:03 PM
dont like this

bones
09-02-2010, 02:05 PM
So TFC has a hell of a time getting enough Canadian talent. The league allows 2 more Canadian teams to enter, where the hell are all these extra GREAT Canadians to come from all at once? I'll bet the league is responding to bitching by ML$E to relax the rules with extra pressure for Canadians coming to be.

Bones...

Technorgasm
09-02-2010, 02:23 PM
speaking of this. . Where is Whitecaps defender CHARLES
Have we signed him yet?
why / why not?

ag futbol
09-02-2010, 05:45 PM
MLS is in existence to make money, don't kid yourself. USSF just gets to come along for the ride and line up some values such as developing soccer in america. For the same reason they want their players developed, we should want ours.

I think there's no excuse not to have a timeline to phase crap like this out. Be it 5 or 10 years, we should still be getting to the point where it's 50% Canadians on the roster or greater.

It's good for the game on all levels. Soccer really breaks through when more people can identify players who came from their community and TFC gets a cheaper source of talent.

SilverSamurai
09-02-2010, 06:01 PM
I'm going to see if I can verify this. Aren't Canadians (and Mexicans) already favoured under NAFTA?
Maybe in theory, but as far as Mexico is concerned, its 1 of the hardest countries to get a work permit in.
It's sort of funny (in a say way) how they complain about being treated badly in the US, but when it comes to how they treat migrant workers, they make the US look like angels.
And if you want to be a citizen? Forget about it.
Anyhoo, getting off topic... but this isn't like the EU where people can go wherever, even though in theory it's supposed to make it easier for workers to move around...

SweetOwnGoal
09-02-2010, 06:27 PM
http://www.24thminute.com/2010/09/canadian-quota-to-be-eliminated-in-2011.html

Ossington Mental Youth
09-02-2010, 07:43 PM
id be more concerned if the Whitecaps academy wasnt going full tilt and TFC had started to work on its own. Other wise it means we arent fighting for mediocre canadian talent at this moment

redcard
09-02-2010, 08:19 PM
i think in order for Canadian teams to be competitive in this league, this change is/was a requirement. Unfortunately we dont have a lot of good Canadian players in the system at the moment, and the mentality is still to want to play overseas first even if it is in the 3rd division in norway...before thinking of mls.

I am sure overtime as more Canadian players realize the mls is not that bad, that we will see more Canadian players in the league and on Canadian teams. At least thats my hope.

Toronto Ruffrider
09-02-2010, 08:44 PM
My concern with a rule change such as this is that it will breed complacency in the Canadian teams. The old roster rules provided a push for Canadian teams to really invest in their academies. That investment may still take place, but Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal could fall back on the NCAA draft, which improves nothing.

Ossington Mental Youth
09-02-2010, 09:18 PM
i wouldnt be too concerned with that as its now a league necessity to have an academy etc as well as a year or so ago the three teams pledged to the CSA to help produce players (for whatever thats worth)

__wowza
09-03-2010, 08:24 AM
again, this wouldn't be an issue if the clause is gradually phased out. you'll enable teams like vancouver/montreal to be competitive in the league whilst still giving them a proper timeline to build up their own academies and youth programs.

bones
09-03-2010, 11:35 AM
My concern with a rule change such as this is that it will breed complacency in the Canadian teams. The old roster rules provided a push for Canadian teams to really invest in their academies. That investment may still take place, but Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal could fall back on the NCAA draft, which improves nothing.


Why do people think that increasing the need for something automatically creates the increase in supply? It doesn't and adding more Canadian teams without adjusting the quotas is foolish.

Cheap players will have to continue to come from the NCAA and for the record, because I've quoted this one but many people jump all over the NCAA for producing crap quality, CANADIANS are NOT excluded from the NCAA. If they're good enough, they get invited. The NCAA programs are good at helping to develope athletic talent whether it be Soccer, Football or Hockey.

Keeping our programs going here, helps with local development prior to NCAA and is needed. Exposure to the sport past the age of 12 in this country is what is needed. As long as we keep that going, NCAA will be an option for a lot more Canadians.

I do agree with the point that we need to keep a minimum number of Canadians on the roster to keep things alive, but we can't keep up the numbers that were put in place Year 1 - present with 2 more teams coming in the league.

Bones...

Fort York Redcoat
09-03-2010, 11:40 AM
^Bones you paint an accurate picture of the resources both nations have for training athletes but it's one we hope to change this side of the border. Until then we'll (well, many of us) look at the NCAA system as a necessary evil.