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ArmenJBX
08-28-2010, 07:58 PM
The Good
-We played pretty well today, lots of chances.
-Mista getting a full 90.
-Nick Garcia. Fantastic work by him, both offensively and defensively.
-Ty Harden was a suitable replacement for Nana Attakora.
-De Guzman had a great game IMO.

The Bad
-0-0 at home when we needed 3 points.
-Honestly, not a lot. Just no goals.
-O'Brian White and Jacob Peterson are not good enough.

The Ugly
-Our playoff chances are dwindling.

Other Thoughts
-Gargan throws are awesome. We need to utilize our wingbacks way more. Today, Gargan/Usanov as well as Garcia provided a lot of wing play, but they are just not good enough at the delivery. We need to capitalize on these chances.

razor787
08-28-2010, 08:01 PM
I think today just solidified the fact that we wont make the playoffs... again

ArmenJBX
08-28-2010, 08:02 PM
In a league that's growing, we have seemingly been left behind. Perhaps this year isn't our year, but I feel a lot better with Preki in charge as well as the way this team is playing now.

We are playing soccer, finally. We know how to pass. We just need more away points. We need to be a strong team away from home, but that comes with confidence.

MFG1
08-28-2010, 08:04 PM
So glad I missed the game, I look at it as saving twenty bucks on parking. Stay Average, Toronto!

LesH
08-28-2010, 08:04 PM
I think today just solidified the fact that we wont make the playoffs... again

+1

This is the one and only thing that has to be remembered about this match.

ArmenJBX
08-28-2010, 08:05 PM
It says a lot about the quality of East vs West teams when 3rd place in the East has 26 points and 3rd place in the West has 37.

LesH
08-28-2010, 08:05 PM
We just need more away points. We need to be a strong team away from home, but that comes with confidence.

Not this season.
Maybe next one, maybe 2012.

ArmenJBX
08-28-2010, 08:07 PM
It entirely possible. We need about 15 points to make playoffs. We have 9 games. If we win our next 3 home matches, that 9 points, which leaves 6 points in 6 games. That's not impossible. A couple wins away from home will do wonders for our season, if it's possible. That's assuming 42 points takes us in. If the standard is 43, then still, 16 points in 9 games.

Batman
08-28-2010, 08:36 PM
The Good
-We played pretty well today, lots of chances.
-Mista getting a full 90.
-Nick Garcia. Fantastic work by him, both offensively and defensively.
-Ty Harden was a suitable replacement for Nana Attakora.
-De Guzman had a great game IMO.

The Bad
-0-0 at home when we needed 3 points.
-Honestly, not a lot. Just no goals.
-O'Brian White and Jacob Peterson are not good enough.

The Ugly
-Our playoff chances are dwindling.

Other Thoughts
-Gargan throws are awesome. We need to utilize our wingbacks way more. Today, Gargan/Usanov as well as Garcia provided a lot of wing play, but they are just not good enough at the delivery. We need to capitalize on these chances.

my only disagreement is JDG. I didn't see anything particularly awesome about him tonight.

Toronto Ruffrider
08-28-2010, 08:39 PM
Not a bad game from the guys, but just not good enough. A team that's as bad on the road as ours can't afford to take less than full points at home, even against MLS' finest.

ArmenJBX
08-28-2010, 08:48 PM
At least we didn't lose.

TFC Bhoy
08-28-2010, 08:55 PM
my only disagreement is JDG. I didn't see anything particularly awesome about him tonight.
+1. I don't he had a bad game, but I don't really remember him doing anything too much spectacular

bigtfcfan
08-28-2010, 09:10 PM
peterson has to go.

torontocelt
08-28-2010, 09:33 PM
Peterson is crap, White is crap, we miss Maicon and Barrett.

MG42
08-28-2010, 09:45 PM
White was more craptacular than usual, he seems like he has no idea whats going on out there lol.

Super
08-28-2010, 09:48 PM
Maybe next year.

Fushida
08-28-2010, 09:56 PM
White was more craptacular than usual, he seems like he has no idea whats going on out there lol.

I don't think he ever had clue about anything going on around him. I'd say it was a pretty standard OBW performance today.

Shakes McQueen
08-28-2010, 10:00 PM
I only got home from work in time to catch the second half on television, but what I saw was fetid and dreadful. I heard the first half was a bit more inspired.

It hit me like a ton of bricks watching this game, how many of our players either a) don't move when they are off the ball, or b) just run up the pitch in a straight line, and wait for one of those signature 30 yard aerial through passes of ours that hit their target about 3% of the time.

Aside from that, there were the usual bizarre pass choices, shinball (derived from "shin" and "pinball"), and the rest.

I've tried to remain hopeful about our prospects this season, but I think the ride may be close to over. I still think Preki has taken a side that was expected to be significantly more dreadful at the opening of this campaign, and made them thoroughly middle-of-the-road - but I suspect he has taken this poor, unbalanced lineup as far as he can.

Creative attacking players are worth their weight in gold, and we have almost no players fitting that description. Wing players are also golden tickets, and we have one (and he's mediocre - Peterson).

The wasn't a terrible performance by the team - it just wasn't enough. And it hasn't been enough for four god damned years.

The Mo Johnston era needs to end.

- Scott

MG42
08-28-2010, 10:05 PM
It hit me like a ton of bricks watching this game, how many of our players either a) don't move when they are off the ball, or b) just run up the pitch in a straight line, and wait for one of those signature 30 yard aerial through passes of ours that hit their target about 3% of the time.

- Scott

This sums up the last 4 years of post game threads lol

kodiakTFC
08-28-2010, 10:19 PM
OBW is Fuad Ibrahim v.2. Ton of potential but at some point you need to produce.

GeorgeBest
08-28-2010, 10:23 PM
Meh!

rocker
08-28-2010, 10:26 PM
Why does De Ro slip 5 times per game? does he need new shoes?

Peterson was pretty bad... not as bad as he was against NYRB, but as a sub he has brought nothing... absolutely nothing... to this team.

Cann is awesome. What a rock this guy is. I liked him with Harden.

rocker
08-28-2010, 10:40 PM
Btw, seemed to be a lot of newbies out today... at least in my section. And man, I think I missed 15 minutes of the match with people coming to the wrong rows, standing in the aisle and blocking views to figure out where their seats are... people sneaking into seats and then getting turfed by the rightful owners.... people going back and forth for food twice during each half.... beer vendors standing directly in front of me and handing beer down 10 seats. It was so damn frustrating. Can't people just watch the game for once??? I was so pissed I freaked out on one guy who stood in the aisle watching the game right in front of me. I think he thought I was going crazy.
They need to have a rule where you can't come back to your seat until there's a stop in play, like in hockey games. Drastic yes, but this is getting ridiculous in my section.

Darlofletch
08-28-2010, 10:47 PM
It wasn't a terrible game by us, and in isolation a point against rsl isn't a terrible result, but we really needed more, and we never really looked like we were going to get more, i think we could have played all night and not scored.

Frei was good, and the defence was generally solid, usanov had a decent half, garcia had a good game, harden was solid as a replacement for Nana.

Gargan was popping up all over the place. Saric really isn't good enough as a winger though. It's a sad indictment of peterson that we play saric on the wing ahead of him, but peterson did nothing to suggest that's the wrong choice when he came on, utterly ineffective.

Up front, this game really showed how badly we need at least one of barrett and santos to come back soon. De Ro and Mista are both more comfortable attacking the defence from deep, so in the first half we were effectively playing 4-4-2-0.

So i was glad just for the sake of our formation that White came on at half time, we need someone to stretch the defence to give de ro and mista room cos we've got no decent wingers who can do that, but White was once again hopeless. he just seems really timid and indecisive out there, never looking dangerous in any way at all. Problem is, our only other option for this role is ibby, which isn't really an improvement.

all in all, I agree with Georgebest, meh!

Most entertaining part of the night for me was after the game i hung out outside gate 4, there was a superdrunk chick who got a player to sign her chest, unfortunately for her she had no clue who's who and just got the first player who came out, which was Kocic. about half an hour later she was puking.

also a couple of guys in run tfc shirts, which a lot of the players seemed to like, especially Nana, so one of them actually took the shirt off to give to him.

anyway, I suppose it could have been worse, but we've put ourselves in a position where we needed the 3 points today, and without them, our playoff hopes are receeding.

Darlofletch
08-28-2010, 10:50 PM
Peterson is crap, White is crap, we miss Maicon and Barrett.

This right here sums up what's wrong with our team right now.

+1

jloome
08-28-2010, 10:55 PM
OBW is Fuad Ibrahim v.2. Ton of potential but at some point you need to produce.

Except OBW is 24 and Ibrahim's still only 19

TFC USA
08-28-2010, 11:08 PM
Optimism is fine, stupid fucking blind optimism annoys me.

We weren't awful but we weren't good. If Chicago wins against Seattle (1-1 right now) I think we should probably declare this season over. We can't do shit on the road and we've dropped 5 crucial points at home.

dow117
08-28-2010, 11:32 PM
So glad I missed the game, I look at it as saving twenty bucks on parking. Stay Average, Toronto!

Huh ??? That was a cracking game tonight, exciting to the last. RSL is a damn good team. TFC were very good tonite and De Guzman was outstanding . What are u people talking about ??

TFC USA
08-28-2010, 11:51 PM
Okay great news Chicago lose, Seattle wins in stoppage time, and Ljungberg misses the next match due to yellows.

Keystone FC
08-28-2010, 11:51 PM
We still have a chance at the playoffs (and yes I am the president for my local chapter of Optimist International...of course I'm the only member) but from here on it has to be wins and no losses and MAYBE a few ties but that's it. Also, we have to remember that Chicago has 2-3 games in hand on us and are right behind us in the standings.

Am I the only one who thinks Toledo refed a good game? Maybe all of those death threats paid off.

I can't get that image out of my head towards the 70th minute as RSL looked a bit tired but TFC looked 'BEAT!'. TFC had an extra days rest after the Panama match than RSL's Mexico Marsh Match and yet we still looked like the ones who just stepped off the plane. This has been a problem for TFC since day one and I want to know what the other MLS clubs are doing differently to keep their guys fresh through the season (and the first person who says Tupperware gets a Falcon Punch next time I see them).

Keystone FC
08-28-2010, 11:52 PM
Okay great news Chicago lose, Seattle wins in stoppage time, and Ljungberg misses the next match due to yellows.
That helps a bit as the Fire is nipping at our heels.
:flare:

Bars92
08-28-2010, 11:53 PM
The only hope we have is for DeRo to score a bunch of goals in the remaining sched.

Pyeddo
08-28-2010, 11:58 PM
Not sure what game some of you were viewing.... De Guz was his usual awful self. He misses more passes than anyone else on our team.

Keystone FC
08-28-2010, 11:58 PM
The only hope we have is for DeRo to score a bunch of goals in the remaining sched.
And that Frei and our defense keep the ball out of the net, but I'd hate to think that DeRo is our Obi Wan in this situation.

Bars92
08-29-2010, 12:06 AM
And that Frei and our defense keep the ball out of the net, but I'd hate to think that DeRo is our Obi Wan in this situation.

DeRo is the only one that can score. Still waiting for Mista to do something. maybe Santos can get a few.

May have to start depending on Garcia strikes from long-range.

Blizzard
08-29-2010, 12:17 AM
That helps a bit as the Fire is nipping at our heels.
:flare:

.... and have two games in hand on us. KC is only one point behind us after beating LA 1 nil.

It was nice of Philly to beat the Revs though.

Fushida
08-29-2010, 12:19 AM
OBW is Fuad Ibrahim v.2. Ton of potential but at some point you need to produce.

He had potential?

Heart of Stone
08-29-2010, 12:34 AM
I think we take Frei for granted now... he saved 2 or 3 certain goals tonight... but he did not get Man of the Match and not much mention of Frei's excellence here...

SamK
08-29-2010, 12:54 AM
Not sure what game some of you were viewing.... De Guz was his usual awful self. He misses more passes than anyone else on our team.

What? De Guzman is easily the best player on our team.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 01:07 AM
I think we take Frei for granted now... he saved 2 or 3 certain goals tonight... but he did not get Man of the Match and not much mention of Frei's excellence here...

Bleh, a couple of his saves looked epic, but they weren't really in any real danger of going on with any competent keeper in net.

I think Frei is great, I just don't think those saves were MoM material.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 01:11 AM
It wasn't a terrible game by us, and in isolation a point against rsl isn't a terrible result, but we really needed more, and we never really looked like we were going to get more, i think we could have played all night and not scored.

Frei was good, and the defence was generally solid, usanov had a decent half, garcia had a good game, harden was solid as a replacement for Nana.

Gargan was popping up all over the place. Saric really isn't good enough as a winger though. It's a sad indictment of peterson that we play saric on the wing ahead of him, but peterson did nothing to suggest that's the wrong choice when he came on, utterly ineffective.

Up front, this game really showed how badly we need at least one of barrett and santos to come back soon. De Ro and Mista are both more comfortable attacking the defence from deep, so in the first half we were effectively playing 4-4-2-0.

So i was glad just for the sake of our formation that White came on at half time, we need someone to stretch the defence to give de ro and mista room cos we've got no decent wingers who can do that, but White was once again hopeless. he just seems really timid and indecisive out there, never looking dangerous in any way at all. Problem is, our only other option for this role is ibby, which isn't really an improvement.

all in all, I agree with Georgebest, meh!

Most entertaining part of the night for me was after the game i hung out outside gate 4, there was a superdrunk chick who got a player to sign her chest, unfortunately for her she had no clue who's who and just got the first player who came out, which was Kocic. about half an hour later she was puking.

also a couple of guys in run tfc shirts, which a lot of the players seemed to like, especially Nana, so one of them actually took the shirt off to give to him.

anyway, I suppose it could have been worse, but we've put ourselves in a position where we needed the 3 points today, and without them, our playoff hopes are receeding.

I have absolutely no real gripes with our defense this season - they do a good job. The problem is that we don't score goals. If losing Barrett is enough to completely crash and burn our production, then we don't have a proper lineup.

I don't even think it comes down to a Preki "strategy" anymore - I think some of the sieves on our team just aren't that good. Period. I've seen enough shinball to reach that conclusion. And the complete lack of real wingers hurts the cause even more - and whose fault is that?

Again - no qualms with our defense. It is miles improved from every other season this team has had. But we aren't going to get full points for their effort, if we can't put the ball in the net.

- Scott

Yagbod
08-29-2010, 01:43 AM
I am really getting sick of this shit.

I don't mean the game tonight, I mean the lack of ability to make the playoffs. I could watch the Maple Laugh's if I wanted that.

Bitter tonight, feeling bitter.

Yagbod
08-29-2010, 01:59 AM
And, just in case you forgot: we probably will not have Dero, De Guz and Nana for the next two matches. Thanks to the MLS and their incomprehensible stance on FIFA dates. Assholes.

Blizzard
08-29-2010, 02:11 AM
What? De Guzman is easily the best player on our team.

Damned right. Remove him from the line-up as he was for the Red Bulls match and we are destroyed 4-1.

That was no coincidence. I am extremely concerned about next Saturday's match. Without DeRo, Nana and JDG, we are in massive trouble.

B

ilikemusic
08-29-2010, 02:29 AM
The fact these poor results are inching MoJo's neck closer and closer to the chopping block makes them slightly more tolerable.

Mikey
08-29-2010, 03:20 AM
Maybe next year.

That should be in Latin under the TFC crest.....

Oldtimer
08-29-2010, 05:39 AM
Ty Harden had his best game yet. One bad give-away and sometimes a little out of ideal positioning, but otherwise quite solid.

Garcia had a good game. Even more surprising, Toldedo actually reffed a reasonably good game (although there was the moment he got in the way of a TFC pass). He didn't start the cards and PKs flying and his calls were decent enough.

A solid team wins at home and ties on the road. We have a team that ties at home and loses on the road.

ParadymeTFC
08-29-2010, 07:38 AM
The fact these poor results are inching MoJo's neck closer and closer to the chopping block makes them slightly more tolerable.

What makes me all warm and tingly inside is that it's really not.

The club will just play it down to bad luck with injuries and a few unlucky games and he'll be back next year ushering the revolving door.

ag futbol
08-29-2010, 07:47 AM
Craig Forrest was on the money when he basically sugar coated it and said RSL is closer to a finished product than TFC is.

Which is basically only telling you that after 3 full years and more turnover than a Mcdonald's restaurant, we still don't have the talent on this team to win. For their ability, nobody played particularly bad last night but some guys like Peterson are just not good enough.

By the time we bring on subs i think "shit, this game is over for us" because our depth is terrible. We don't have one consistent threat off the bench unless we hold back a starter.

ensco
08-29-2010, 07:50 AM
^Or, put another way, RSL can hold Findley and Johnson out until the 65th minute, and still look like a football team. When we hold DeRo out, we can't play with a depleted Panamanian team.

We were flat and should have lost.

Frei had much more to do than Rimando, and RSL had those two late strikes off the woodwork.

ensco
08-29-2010, 07:56 AM
It was nice of Philly to beat the Revs though.

Revs and Dynamo are out of it after last night. Too many teams to go by.

There are 6 teams fighting for the last 3 places. Given that we are already on the outside looking in, play 6 of the last 9 on the road, and have generally looked terrible lately, we are realistically the least likely of the 6 to get in.

canadian_bhoy
08-29-2010, 08:11 AM
Craig Forrest was on the money when he basically sugar coated it and said RSL is closer to a finished product than TFC is.

Which is basically only telling you that after 3 full years and more turnover than a Mcdonald's restaurant, we still don't have the talent on this team to win. For their ability, nobody played particularly bad last night but some guys like Peterson are just not good enough.

By the time we bring on subs i think "shit, this game is over for us" because our depth is terrible. We don't have one consistent threat off the bench unless we hold back a starter.

I don't think he sugar coated it that much. He said RSL is closer to the finished product, but he also said that TFC is nowhere near being at the same level (i.e. TFC is shit).

Call me crazy, but I sense some sort of underlying bitterness from Forrest towards TFC. I don't know why, but he seems to always be negative.

He's right though. We don't have the real deal in our starting 11 and once we get to the bench, well...it's just not good enough.

I think we were lucky to get a point last night. RSL were clearly the better team on the pitch and had the better chances - but hey, I'm not complaining!

koryo
08-29-2010, 08:20 AM
We weren't terrible by any stretch last night but, once again, we simply weren't good enough. Once again, no attacking shape. Once again, players not getting themselves into space to receive a pass and our possession goes begging. Once again, points dropped at home.

Last night, like so many others, isn't down to hard luck or injuries. It's down to coaching, and it just isn't good enough.

London
08-29-2010, 08:29 AM
time to forget about playoffs and focus on champions league.

give the youth some experience in MLS and rest the starters for the only meaningfull games left.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-29-2010, 08:30 AM
i think people were ready to throw harden under the bus without him ever really having played. hes been injured alot but will be useful (possibly nana's replacement if he leaves, plus he also plays on the wing if im not mistaken)

ag futbol
08-29-2010, 08:36 AM
i think people were ready to throw harden under the bus without him ever really having played. hes been injured alot but will be useful (possibly nana's replacement if he leaves, plus he also plays on the wing if im not mistaken)
Not a dig at your post but we have to stop this shit with guys who "also" play the wing.

I want someone with the actual skill set of a wide player (like Jacob Peterson but with talent).

ManUtd4ever
08-29-2010, 09:59 AM
TFC was somewhat fortunate to escape last night with a draw. The disparity between the two clubs was obvious. RSL is pure quality all over the pitch and on their bench as well. Barrett and Santos might have made a difference in the match but our lack of depth has been apparent throughout the latter stages of the season and is yet another serious indictment of Mo Johnston.

I agree with the notion that Preki has guided the club to overachieve given the limited talent he has at his disposal. Preki has made questionable roster decisions at times but he has done a formidable job instilling discipline and cultivating the right attitude amongst the players. Despite a below average roster, TFC has been a competitive squad for the most part this season, but simply isn't good enough to win against the top tier clubs in the league at home or away.

Considering the looming schedule, injury troubles, and CMNT callups, the playoffs are a pipe dream at this point. It will be a disgrace to miss the playoffs the year the MLS Cup is held in Toronto but I have already accepted that this will probably be the case.

I believe the only way to salvage the season from a supporters standpoint is to focus on an extended run in Champions League. If Preki manages the roster effectively and our lineup is at full strength within a few weeks it is possible. The only other saving grace of this disappointing campaign is that someone other than Mo Johnston will hopefully be at the helm of the club next season...

TFC Cityboy
08-29-2010, 10:00 AM
a couple of observations from last night
On the pitch- superb game from Nick Garcia- he has largely done well this season despite our lack of love for the guy.
Ty Harden did very well. No "fox in the box" without Chad or Maicon as mentioned above.
Toledo...wtf? Reffed a good game ...for once.

Off the pitch- 115 was piss poor last night. We tried to get a few chants going early on, too many tourists and people sitting on their friggin hands. Gave up- couldn't be arsed last night.

Forget the play offs. With 6 of 9 away from home, unless this leopard changes its spots, we'll finish out of the picture again. Silver lining should be the door hitting Johnson's arse on the way out.

Cynical comment- what odds that MLSE will make us decide on whether we want MLS Cup tickets BEFORE we are mathematically eliminated from the post-season.....

Batman
08-29-2010, 10:06 AM
Cynical comment- what odds that MLSE will make us decide on whether we want MLS Cup tickets BEFORE we are mathematically eliminated from the post-season.....

I'd put money on it.

ensco
08-29-2010, 10:07 AM
Cynical comment- what odds that MLSE will make us decide on whether we want MLS Cup tickets BEFORE we are mathematically eliminated from the post-season.....


If TFC were a contender, I bet those tickets would be priced at near-RM type levels. Now, if they want to fill the park, they won't be able to charge more than TFC regular pricing.

dupont
08-29-2010, 10:14 AM
That was a pretty uninspiring game. It seemed like a must win game considering the rest of the schedule. So if that is the best this team can do, then this team just isn't meant for the playoffs again.

Keystone FC
08-29-2010, 10:31 AM
That should be in Latin under the TFC crest.....
Maybe tunc annus

Doesn't look right to me. How about:

Absentis per Mo iam! :D

reggie
08-29-2010, 10:34 AM
bye bye mo...i think mo will still be here next season,in that case it will be bye bye reggie.
parking was a nightmare lastnight!!
the only good thing about being at the game is that i didnt have to watch the broadcast with dobson and forrest.

Darlofletch
08-29-2010, 11:11 AM
If TFC were a contender, I bet those tickets would be priced at near-RM type levels. Now, if they want to fill the park, they won't be able to charge more than TFC regular pricing.

Aren't they part of next years season ticket package? hopefully that will be instead of the carlsberg cup waste of money.

Yohan
08-29-2010, 11:54 AM
Not a dig at your post but we have to stop this shit with guys who "also" play the wing.

I want someone with the actual skill set of a wide player (like Jacob Peterson but with talent).
correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Peterson start as a withdrawn striker/attacking midfielder before getting converted to a winger?

Kaz
08-29-2010, 11:55 AM
It's ashame people keep shitting on OBW and JDG, JDG work hard, he is missing alot of passes because other people suck and aren't there for him. There is still missing chemistry and understanding with people on the Pitch, and that is a coaching issue. OBW hasn't had the advantage of developing a striking relationship with Barrett or anyone because Preki keeps changing the line up week to week, moving DeRo out of his scoring position... and as soon as we have a lead Preki goes into Defense mode. The only person under performing on this team more then expect giving their environment, is Preki. And Preki is Preforming in the exact same way that saw him receive the axe at Chivas. Any decent coach could have made the same turn around, but a coach with the killer instinct would have picked up points. If your coach isn't good enough to produce regular points away, or work with players to make sure you can still win games with injuries, that isn't the players, that is the coaches developing them... Peterson, OBW, Nane, etc have the skills, but they aren't being developed in a manner that is effective nor are they being played in a manner that is effective... that is coaching. We have the players, just not the leadership. OBW needs someone to work with him get his awareness and needs a strike partner. That clearly isn't happening, no one is investing in him.

canadian_bhoy
08-29-2010, 11:59 AM
JDG was screwed from the minute he got here.

For DP money, you can't be a defensive midfielder - you just can't. No matter how talented he may be or how well he plays, if he isn't setting up goals, scoring them himself, or making game changing plays, then he simply won't get the credit.

I don't fault JDG (though I do think his play has been disappointing), I blame Mo for using a DP spot on a DM when we needed a striker or a midfielder that could change a game.

I do like Mista. He's played well when pricki has let him out on the pitch.

reggie
08-29-2010, 12:07 PM
dont look now...but we had a better record last year at this time..hmmm can you say
chris cummins.

MO MUST GO AND BRING THAT PRICKI WITH YOU AND YOU CAN ADD THAT SMUCK ANSLEMI IF HE KEEPS MO..

ilikemusic
08-29-2010, 12:55 PM
Philly won last night with a goal in the 93rd minute.

In four years, we have yet to do that. In four years the closest Toronto has come to last minute heroics is Dichio's goal to tie the game at the end of season one against New England.

Can the RPB change the website's front page to just a big 'Fire Mo' slogan?

Even the Mo lovers (do any of them exist anymore?) have to concede that in four years he has taken us NOWHERE.

shwade
08-29-2010, 01:03 PM
I don't know why Preki keeps putting Peterson in...he's a bumbling fool with the ball.

TFC USA
08-29-2010, 01:17 PM
Kansas City beat LA in LA (what the fuck is wrong with the Galaxy?) and after being total shit they're 1 point behind us.

By the time we're eliminated for the Crew game I hope BMO is empty so MLSE gets the message that Mo has to fucking go. They only seem to know success by money and not seeing sellouts like they're used to should do it.

Redpunkfiddle
08-29-2010, 02:16 PM
Kansas City beat LA in LA (what the fuck is wrong with the Galaxy?) and after being total shit they're 1 point behind us.

By the time we're eliminated for the Crew game I hope BMO is empty so MLSE gets the message that Mo has to fucking go. They only seem to know success by money and not seeing sellouts like they're used to should do it.

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Anyhow, the grim truth is that we are 3 points behind where we were last year- we also had 6 away and 3 home games then. We got 2 home wins, 1 home draw, and 2 away draws for 9 points when we fell short.

We need 15 points. 3 home and 2 away or whatever.

Watching a couple of those last minute heroics in Seattle and NE drove home how little we have gotten in the dying minutes from the team.

Blizzard
08-29-2010, 02:26 PM
dont look now...but we had a better record last year at this time..hmmm can you say
chris cummings..


If you really want to say something nice about our previous coach, you can start by getting his name right.

CHRIS CUMMINS

ensco
08-29-2010, 02:36 PM
Philly won last night with a goal in the 93rd minute.

In four years, we have yet to do that.

We did do it once. 2008 at LA. Cunningham scored in the 88th minute.

But I agree with your general point.

Derko
08-29-2010, 02:50 PM
White was more craptacular than usual, he seems like he has no idea whats going on out there lol.

When OBW got injured did his balance get injured as well, the guy just can't stay on his feet, also, why did he give up on the chase in the second half, it could have cost us the game.

Derko
08-29-2010, 02:54 PM
Kansas City beat LA in LA (what the fuck is wrong with the Galaxy?) and after being total shit they're 1 point behind us.

By the time we're eliminated for the Crew game I hope BMO is empty so MLSE gets the message that Mo has to fucking go. They only seem to know success by money and not seeing sellouts like they're used to should do it.

I will not abandon the boys on the field, yes Mo must Go but to not show up is a disgrace to the players, don't buy merchandise or overpriced beers and food. We have already paid for our tickets, so you are literally giving MLSE your money for nothing. If you don't show. My opinion of course.

__wowza
08-29-2010, 03:06 PM
i don't think mo johnson knows how hard he makes it to support this team.

bgnewf
08-29-2010, 05:56 PM
The Fat Lady is not warming up... not yet at least

In this edition of the blog I talk about how it is not time (not yet at least) to throw in the towel, how Ty Harden surprised, how TFC is still not firing on all cylinders and what is the one thing that more than anything else will decide the outcome of the season.

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/08/fat-lady/

Comments are always welcome.

jazzy
08-29-2010, 07:07 PM
What makes me all warm and tingly inside is that it's really not.

The club will just play it down to bad luck with injuries and a few unlucky games and he'll be back next year ushering the revolving door.

unfortunately I've been feelin this all year,....it is the same organization that owns the leafs after all.....hopefully all the optimists will prove the day and I'm wrong

Hooligan69
08-29-2010, 07:19 PM
Watched the game on TV at Joe's. I'm honestly surprised we didn't lose. Our playoff hopes are fading slowly because we're ridiculously inconsistent on the pitch. An impotent porn star has better finishing.

v00d00daddy
08-29-2010, 07:23 PM
dont look now...but we had a better record last year at this time..hmmm can you say
chris cummins.

MO MUST GO AND BRING THAT PRICKI WITH YOU AND YOU CAN ADD THAT SMUCK ANSLEMI IF HE KEEPS MO..

By my count last year at the end of August we were 8-8-8 and -3 in goal differential.

This year we're 7-8-6 and -3 in goal differential

So.. .with two less games played we're essentially the same as last year. Not really a ringing endorsement.

That being said...we've done better in the CCL this year.

Cummins? Uhh...no fucking thanks.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 07:27 PM
Plus, this year the teams we're playing against are much stronger and the points are much more close.

Regardless of how this season turns out, I'm more confident going into next year then I was last year. Preki seems to have a direction, and a longterm plan in mind. I know Peterson looks poor now but I see a lot of Chad Barrett like qualities within him, and it's this potential that I think Preki wants to untap. That being said, this season looks like it's essentially over, and serious player evaluations are necessary. I hope that we can weed out those players we don't need, clear out the cap space we're wasting (We're still paying for Zac Harold apperently?) and sign ourselves a REAL Designated Player. Mista and JDG are utility DP's, but we need someone who can run at defenders and score; We need a Del Piero. Hopefully we can also get a couple of wingers and by this time next year be where New York or RSL are. :D

Oldtimer
08-29-2010, 08:17 PM
We won't get in the players we need until their is a change at the GM level.

Preki can only do so much.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 08:32 PM
Who could replace him as GM? Any names?

zamperina
08-29-2010, 08:47 PM
Who could replace him as GM? Any names?

MLSE will just pull the obvious stupid move and promote Brennan as the new GM...or their own stupidity will allow Mo to complete his last year of the contract.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 08:47 PM
JDG was screwed from the minute he got here.

For DP money, you can't be a defensive midfielder - you just can't. No matter how talented he may be or how well he plays, if he isn't setting up goals, scoring them himself, or making game changing plays, then he simply won't get the credit.

I don't fault JDG (though I do think his play has been disappointing), I blame Mo for using a DP spot on a DM when we needed a striker or a midfielder that could change a game.

I do like Mista. He's played well when pricki has let him out on the pitch.

I disagree on both fronts. If your theory was right on JDG then Marquez would be screwed. Right now, I think Marquez has the chance to end the season as the best player in the league and he's a DM.

Mista, well, I'm done with him. I gave it enough time to see what he could do, last night proved he's fat, lazy and slow as hell. He gets involved in two plays per game, sorry, that just isn't good enough. Another useless overpaid European signed by Mo.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 08:53 PM
We won't get in the players we need until their is a change at the GM level.

Preki can only do so much.

The problem I have with this statement is that the guys who play well on this team, the core guys (except for maybe Maicon) were all brought in before Preki, by Mo. The guys I want off this team are the guys Preki brought in this year. I have no confidence Preki can do any better if he was given liberty to sign his own players. We'd end up with a bunch of strikers who can defend better then they can attack. Preki has had long enough to find some decent players and he's brought in nothing but crap.

Blizzard
08-29-2010, 08:58 PM
We won't get in the players we need until their is a change at the GM level.

Preki can only do so much.

Who do you think wanted LaBrocca, Usanov, Hscanovic, Peterson, Gargan, Conway, Kocic and Hardin. Preki! Mo acquired or signed these players because Preki wanted them. Why did we get rid of Ali Gerba? Because Preki didn't want him. Amado? Same thing! Adrian Serioux? Same thing.

To believe that Mo unilaterally brings in or dumps players is a bit naive.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 08:59 PM
See, I don't buy that Pachuco. Preki knows the kinds of players he wants. Mo just signs what he can. Maicon Santos is a good example of a Preki player, as is Dan Gargan. These are hard working players that know their job and do it. It's this transition period that's kinda tough to handle because Preki needs to establish himself while Mo's mistakes are fixed. I'm confident in Preki; he is our head coach, and we should stand behind him. There's no interim or first time or any other kind of excuse for Preki. I believe that by the end of the year we will see where we stand and work from there. Preki never said it was going to be instant, there's work to be done. He has to fix the shit from 3 seasons worth of bad managing. That's on Mo. I'll let Preki do his thing.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 09:01 PM
I have absolutely no real gripes with our defense this season - they do a good job. The problem is that we don't score goals. If losing Barrett is enough to completely crash and burn our production, then we don't have a proper lineup.

I don't even think it comes down to a Preki "strategy" anymore - I think some of the sieves on our team just aren't that good. Period. I've seen enough shinball to reach that conclusion. And the complete lack of real wingers hurts the cause even more - and whose fault is that?

Again - no qualms with our defense. It is miles improved from every other season this team has had. But we aren't going to get full points for their effort, if we can't put the ball in the net.

- Scott

Interesting point from Dobson last night. Frei has faced more shots then any other goal keeper in the league. Pretty sure Frei makes our defense look better then they are. The center of our defense is great, the wide backs are dreadfull most of the time. This defensive style Preki supposively teaches has rewarded us with the most shots on goal in the league. So we can't score for shit, and we allow way too many shots while playing the ugliest footie any team can play. It really doesn't say much for prick Preki.

koryo
08-29-2010, 09:02 PM
There's no blanket statement against either Mo or Preki. In my opinion it gets down to this: GM with a poor track record and a coach who's taken us as far as he can.

Perhaps I'm over-simplifying. Perhaps not.

And the counter of "who would do a better job" is no reason to not drop those two.

Hell, if MLSE turns out to be just as incompetent in selecting their management structure the second time around... well then, when push comes to shove I don't need TFC.

You listening Paul? Is that clear?

H Bomb
08-29-2010, 09:03 PM
Prekis thing is to be a negative manager and put his own grudges before the betterment of the team. He's done a bad job overall. There have been some nice moments, but overall this season looks exactly like the others.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 09:05 PM
See, I don't buy that Pachuco. Preki knows the kinds of players he wants. Mo just signs what he can. Maicon Santos is a good example of a Preki player, as is Dan Gargan. These are hard working players that know their job and do it. It's this transition period that's kinda tough to handle because Preki needs to establish himself while Mo's mistakes are fixed. I'm confident in Preki; he is our head coach, and we should stand behind him. There's no interim or first time or any other kind of excuse for Preki. I believe that by the end of the year we will see where we stand and work from there. Preki never said it was going to be instant, there's work to be done. He has to fix the shit from 3 seasons worth of bad managing. That's on Mo. I'll let Preki do his thing.

You just pointed out the two players Preki brought in that are usefull to this team and claim those are Preki type players. So the rest of the crap that's been signed this year is all Mo and nothing to do with Preki? If you give credit to Preki for those two players then surely you must hold him accountable for the rest of the signings.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 09:08 PM
First off, how bout we turn down on the "Prick" Preki nonsense. I get that you don't like his choices but that doesn't mean you insult the guy. He's doing better then Cummins ever could. Fuck, last year I couldn't watch this team because the street kids in Venezuela were playing better soccer then them. At least we have a system now. This feels like a year one team gone right as opposed to a four year team right now. Preki is, right now, fixing 3 years of piss poor management. What do you expect him to do, turn shit into gold? C'mon, since the beginning of the seasons I had one expectation; make us play something resembling soccer. Playoffs and CCL and whatnot will come later, let's just actually play the game. We're doing that now. We're playing soccer, and yeah, we need to score more, but at least we don't look like idiots hoofing the ball up the field for 90 minutes.

Preki I feel, is doing his job as well as he can with the circumstances given. In order to win, it is CRUCIAL that the revolving door stops right now and the players are given more time to grow. Chelsea didn't become a team overnight, just now they look like real European contenders. It takes time. This isn't a one year job, Preki is in it for the longhaul and we will see the fruits of his labour in the coming years, something that we never had under Cummins or Carver.

However, Mo does have to be accountable for his past choices.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 09:10 PM
You just pointed out the two players Preki brought in that are usefull to this team and claim those are Preki type players. So the rest of the crap that's been signed this year is all Mo and nothing to do with Preki? If you give credit to Preki for those two players then surely you must hold him accountable for the rest of the signings.

Which players are you upset about that Preki has signed? I feel like Gargan, Usanov, Harden, LaBrocca, Saric and Maicon are better then Wynne, Serioux, Harmse, Vitti and Guevara. They are team players and do their job well.

We were 11 people on the field last year. Now we are 1 team, and it shows.

H Bomb
08-29-2010, 09:12 PM
no man pricki, is creating as many problems as he's fixing. We arent a 1st year team, we ARE a 4th year team. When it boils down to it, i think most of that post was wrong. Also, Chelsea did become great overnight..and they arent just now becoming a european contender

H Bomb
08-29-2010, 09:14 PM
. Now we are 1 team, and it shows.

jeeesus no it doesnt. We're a bunch of dudes missing runs and sending balls to no one. Theres no movement and barely any communication. Come on dude, watch the team play. Theres nothing going on out there. no understanding after what 20 games? its terrible, and embarrassing. I dont know what you think you see

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 09:17 PM
First off, how bout we turn down on the "Prick" Preki nonsense. I get that you don't like his choices but that doesn't mean you insult the guy. He's doing better then Cummins ever could. Fuck, last year I couldn't watch this team because the street kids in Venezuela were playing better soccer then them. At least we have a system now. This feels like a year one team gone right as opposed to a four year team right now. Preki is, right now, fixing 3 years of piss poor management. What do you expect him to do, turn shit into gold? C'mon, since the beginning of the seasons I had one expectation; make us play something resembling soccer. Playoffs and CCL and whatnot will come later, let's just actually play the game. We're doing that now. We're playing soccer, and yeah, we need to score more, but at least we don't look like idiots hoofing the ball up the field for 90 minutes.

Preki I feel, is doing his job as well as he can with the circumstances given. In order to win, it is CRUCIAL that the revolving door stops right now and the players are given more time to grow. Chelsea didn't become a team overnight, just now they look like real European contenders. It takes time. This isn't a one year job, Preki is in it for the longhaul and we will see the fruits of his labour in the coming years, something that we never had under Cummins or Carver.

However, Mo does have to be accountable for his past choices.

I don't have to support the coach just because you do. I don't like his style, his strategy, the players he brings in and I think he's incapable of doing anything more then what he's done.

Chelsea did become a good team overnight (refer to Russian owner), not sure what league you've been following.

As far as your other post where you suggest Preki has brought in better players then Guevara, Wynne and Serioux, well, this is where you and I are on two completely different planets.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 09:17 PM
Aren't there rules against personal insults on this board?

No, Chelsea did not become amazing overnight, nor did Man City. They were good, but not Barcelona good. But that's beyond the point.

Would you rather be 5/10 under Cummins now and in the future, or 4/10 now with a possibility of being 7-8/10 in the future? I don't know about you, but future growth is better then a burnout year. We were not sustainable last year. Even if we made playoffs, this year we would have been done.

Preki knows more then any of us on a forum anyways. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I, however, know a coach with a winning mentality and a plan when I see one. I'll see you all in 2 years when we're winning some fucking playoff games with Gargan and Hscanovics and whatnot. It's not easy taking a bunch of people and making them learn about each other to an almost natural instinct. That takes TIME. It's what makes Barcelona so good. TIME together makes them strong. We need that consistency with the same players, same coach, same system.

Preki gives us that option. He's a longterm coach, not an interim short term, shoot for the stars and pray kinda coach. Cummins was destined to maybe succeed. Preki is destined to make us a stronger team in the longhaul.

TFC USA
08-29-2010, 09:17 PM
Who could replace him as GM? Any names?

Honestly, anyone could replace him. Mo is reaching Matt Millen levels of suck.

H Bomb
08-29-2010, 09:20 PM
Aren't there rules against personal insults on this board?

No, Chelsea did not become amazing overnight, nor did Man City. They were good, but not Barcelona good. But that's beyond the point.

Would you rather be 5/10 under Cummins now and in the future, or 4/10 now with a possibility of being 7-8/10 in the future? I don't know about you, but future growth is better then a burnout year. We were not sustainable last year. Even if we made playoffs, this year we would have been done.

Preki knows more then any of us on a forum anyways. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I, however, know a coach with a winning mentality and a plan when I see one. I'll see you all in 2 years when we're winning some fucking playoff games with Gargan and Hscanovics and whatnot. It's not easy taking a bunch of people and making them learn about each other to an almost natural instinct. That takes TIME. It's what makes Barcelona so good. TIME together makes them strong. We need that consistency with the same players, same coach, same system.

Preki gives us that option. He's a longterm coach, not an interim short term, shoot for the stars and pray kinda coach. Cummins was destined to maybe succeed. Preki is destined to make us a stronger team in the longhaul.


The thing that makes barcelona so good is world class players, and a dedication to attacking football. Something we dont have. I disagreed with everything else in your post, figured i'd comment on this though

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 09:21 PM
Wynne, Serioux, Guevara vs Gargan, Cann, LaBrocca.

Wynne = useless on the right back.
Gargan = usefull, strong, hardworking right back.

Serioux = strong, hard tackling CB. Hurt too much.
Cann = equally strong, hard tackling, height advantage, healthy, younger.

Guevara = Great quality, dead ball taker, lazy and unmotivated.
LaBrocca = perhaps not as good both overall and on dead balls, but actually wants to win with TFC, and tries harder. Talent < Hard Work.



As for Barcelona, yes, SOME world class players, but overall, those players are good because of Barcelona, not the other way around. Keita, Pique, Maxwell/Abidal etc are hard working players, not amazingly talented like Messi but hardworking. As for Xavi and Iniesta, they were okay 4-5 years ago but developed together and became great. Time together made them learn each others game and now they are almost godlike.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 09:22 PM
Aren't there rules against personal insults on this board?

No, Chelsea did not become amazing overnight, nor did Man City. They were good, but not Barcelona good. But that's beyond the point.

Would you rather be 5/10 under Cummins now and in the future, or 4/10 now with a possibility of being 7-8/10 in the future? I don't know about you, but future growth is better then a burnout year. We were not sustainable last year. Even if we made playoffs, this year we would have been done.

Preki knows more then any of us on a forum anyways. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I, however, know a coach with a winning mentality and a plan when I see one. I'll see you all in 2 years when we're winning some fucking playoff games with Gargan and Hscanovics and whatnot. It's not easy taking a bunch of people and making them learn about each other to an almost natural instinct. That takes TIME. It's what makes Barcelona so good. TIME together makes them strong. We need that consistency with the same players, same coach, same system.

Preki gives us that option. He's a longterm coach, not an interim short term, shoot for the stars and pray kinda coach. Cummins was destined to maybe succeed. Preki is destined to make us a stronger team in the longhaul.

What personal insults? if you aren't man enough to have a normal conversation then don't have it. Nobody is insulting you.

As for not watching TFC because I don't like the coach, I mean really? do I even have to respond to that?

Man City and Chelsea are the worst two teams you could've picked for teams that didn't become good overnight. Obviously you don't follow the EPL.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 09:24 PM
Wynne, Serioux, Guevara vs Gargan, Cann, LaBrocca.

Wynne = useless on the right back.
Gargan = usefull, strong, hardworking right back.

Serioux = strong, hard tackling CB. Hurt too much.
Cann = equally strong, hard tackling, height advantage, healthy, younger.

Guevara = Great quality, dead ball taker, lazy and unmotivated.
LaBrocca = perhaps not as good both overall and on dead balls, but actually wants to win with TFC, and tries harder. Talent < Hard Work.



As for Barcelona, yes, SOME world class players, but overall, those players are good because of Barcelona, not the other way around. Keita, Pique, Maxwell/Abidal, heck, Xavi and Iniesta were nonsense 5 years ago but developed together and became great.

Usanov, Hscanovic and Peterson make Marco Reda, Adam Braz and Andy Welsh look good.

H Bomb
08-29-2010, 09:25 PM
Wynne, Serioux, Guevara vs Gargan, Cann, LaBrocca.

Wynne = useless on the right back.
Gargan = usefull, strong, hardworking right back.

Serioux = strong, hard tackling CB. Hurt too much.
Cann = equally strong, hard tackling, height advantage, healthy, younger.

Guevara = Great quality, dead ball taker, lazy and unmotivated.
LaBrocca = perhaps not as good both overall and on dead balls, but actually wants to win with TFC, and tries harder. Talent < Hard Work.



As for Barcelona, yes, SOME world class players, but overall, those players are good because of Barcelona, not the other way around. Keita, Pique, Maxwell/Abidal, heck, Xavi and Iniesta were nonsense 5 years ago but developed together and became great.


you listen to TV punditry too much dude. Most of the people you just mentioned were great 5 years ago. The others were children. I'm so tired of this Barca = perfect football BS thats constantly thrown around. Yes they are very good, can we move on please.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 09:26 PM
Usanov, Hscanovic and Peterson make Marco Reda, Adam Braz and Andy Welsh look good.

You're overexaggerating. If you'd want Adam Braz and Marco Redo over Hscanovics and Usanov you clearly haven't watched them play.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 09:28 PM
You're overexaggerating. If you'd want Adam Braz and Marco Redo over Hscanovics and Usanov you clearly haven't watched them play.

If you want Labrocca over Guevara you clearly didn't go to a game last year.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 09:29 PM
I'll admit that I'd prefer Guevara over LaBrocca. However, I'd like a motivated Guevara and not a useless, lazy one.

But whatever, I'm not getting into a debate over this. I stand by Preki because I've seen what his type of coach can do for a team. Clearly we have different opinions on the direction of our team. I like what Preki is doing, the mentality he has, and the players he's brought in. They are the kind of players I personally would bring in; hard working team players. Hopefully we are both satisfied with the results at the end of the season and we're in the playoffs. If not, I will look forward to next season knowing that our team is developing properly for the first back to back season, and not being scrapped again.

Roogsy
08-29-2010, 09:34 PM
As for Barcelona, yes, SOME world class players, but overall, those players are good because of Barcelona, not the other way around. Keita, Pique, Maxwell/Abidal etc are hard working players, not amazingly talented like Messi but hardworking. As for Xavi and Iniesta, they were okay 4-5 years ago but developed together and became great. Time together made them learn each others game and now they are almost godlike.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Some of the players on Barcelona aren't world-class but play their role in the system. So if you aren't going to have world-beaters on your team, you'd better be sure your system is one that will get results. And that has always been my problem with Preki. It's not that I don't appreciate his point of view about hard-working players, but what he has failed to convince me of is that he has a system that can take those players to a winning record.

Funny enough, people were praising Preki's ability to get this team to "string 3 passes together" and I distinctly remember saying that I don't care about passes, I care about results.

But at this point, my calls for Preki's head will come at the end of the season. But it's looking more and more likely that I will be in that chorus.

As for Mo, my position on his has been clear since before the season began.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 09:34 PM
I just admitted I'd prefer Guevara over LaBrocca if you read that post. However, I'd like a motivated Guevara and not a useless, lazy one.

But whatever, I'm not getting into a debate over this. I stand by Preki because I've seen what his type of coach can do for a team. Clearly we have different opinions on the direction of our team. I like what Preki is doing, the mentality he has, and the players he's brought in. They are the kind of players I personally would bring in; hard working team players. Hopefully we are both satisfied with the results at the end of the season and we're in the playoffs. If not, I will look forward to next season knowing that our team is developing properly for the first back to back season, and not being scrapped again.

Yes let's leave it at that. I think we are worst off with the players he's signed for the most part. I think we'll continue to be the team that allows the most shots in the MLS why all that same time not knowing how to score a goal. His style of play is to give the ball to the other team and defend, defend, defend. My style of play is as long as you have the ball the other team can't score (unless you are Garcia), a concept Preki doesn't teach or even understand. Preki would be happy with 0-0 draws in 10 straight games. I would be happier with 5 wins and 5 losses in 10 straight games.

koryo
08-29-2010, 09:34 PM
Sorry Jimmy my old son, but you started this thread off by suggesting that we played well yesterday. Well, that's your opinion and that's your right.

My opinion differs, considerably. But then that's merely my opinion.

Tarrah.

jloome
08-29-2010, 09:35 PM
They are the kind of players I personally would bring in; hard working team players.

Labrocca, Peterson, Gargan (whom I like); these guys are journeymen at best. Gargan looks great going forward, pretty average going back. Hscanovic and Usanov are pretty pedestrian.

Hard working without sufficient talent = missing the playoffs again. we have no width, lousy fullbacks and, even with Barrett healthy, no lead striker (because DeRo, carry the team as he does, roams everywhere.).

Team is still two wingers and a striker away from competing, and probably one central midfielder as well, now that other teams have improved substantially this weekend.

We just didn't do enough this year personnel wise or tactically.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 09:37 PM
If we get rid of Preki and scrap the team again we're at square one all over again!

I'd rather move forward with someone like Preki then take a step back (again!) and try this shit all over again. I will be with the camp of people who are thinking past this season and will have some consistency in this team.

Roogsy
08-29-2010, 09:40 PM
Labrocca, Peterson, Gargan (whom I like); these guys are journeymen at best. Gargan looks great going forward, pretty average going back. Hscanovic and Usanov are pretty pedestrian.

Hard working without sufficient talent = missing the playoffs again. we have no width, lousy fullbacks and, even with Barrett healthy, no lead striker (because DeRo, carry the team as he does, roams everywhere.).

Team is still two wingers and a striker away from competing, and probably one central midfielder as well, now that other teams have improved substantially this weekend.

We just didn't do enough this year personnel wise or tactically.


Yup, yup and yup. Especially the bolded part. The sad part is that the needs of this team have always been the same and have never been addressed. That falls on Mo. However, in coming in, Preki made only enough changes to fix part of the problem (our work ethic) but I have not seen enough to convince me he can fix the part that can make this team a contender.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 09:41 PM
Yup, I agree. We still need wingers and a Del Piero like goalscorer. We have a strong base, now we just need those missing pieces.

H Bomb
08-29-2010, 09:41 PM
If we get rid of Preki and scrap the team again we're at square one all over again!

I'd rather move forward with someone like Preki then take a step back (again!) and try this shit all over again. I will be with the camp of people who are thinking past this season and will have some consistency in this team.


so were you against cummins leaving last year, for the sake of consistency. It obvious we disagree and thats cool, but you need to realize some of us think keeping preki may be a detriment to moving the club forward. Most of us have been watching football for a while ya know.

Roogsy
08-29-2010, 09:44 PM
Yup, I agree. We still need wingers and a Del Piero like goalscorer. We have a strong base, now we just need those missing pieces.

Jeezus this is like our annual message of hope.

koryo
08-29-2010, 09:44 PM
If we get rid of Preki and scrap the team again we're at square one all over again!

I'd rather move forward with someone like Preki then take a step back (again!) and try this shit all over again. I will be with the camp of people who are thinking past this season and will have some consistency in this team.

I don't but that for a minute. You'd rather we continue down the wrong path simply because that path as been marked? Do me a favour and learn your football.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 09:46 PM
We need a striker, yes, but I would replace our full backs and our wingers before looking at the striker position. I think the trio of Maicon, Barrett and Dero (all healthy) could be decent. i would however dump Mista's terrible salary and look for a replacement.

BTW - I love Gargan. But he's a utility player in the MLS. He'd get alot of playing time anyways but I'm not sure he's a starter in any position.

Roogsy
08-29-2010, 09:52 PM
This is the problem with Toronto sports. We make hard-workers and bench players "stars". Gargan is not a starter, even in a piddly league like MLS. And yet we love him (even I love him) because the boy plays his keester off. On a real team, a contending team, Gargan is a bench player, end of story.

And that is where Preki's ego hurts this club. Because he can't handle quality players and only seems to be able to manage players he can run into the ground, he will never have real success, he will never manage a team that can dominate and he is not what TFC needs. As fans, most of us will need the end of year results to come to a determination some of us realized at the beginning of the year.

koryo
08-29-2010, 09:59 PM
This is the problem with Toronto sports. We make hard-workers and bench players "stars". Gargan is not a starter, even in a piddly league like MLS. And yet we love him (even I love him) because the boy plays his keester off. On a real team, a contending team, Gargan is a bench player, end of story.

And that is where Preki's ego hurts this club. Because he can't handle quality players and only seems to be able to manage players he can run into the ground, he will never have real success, he will never manage a team that can dominate and he is not what TFC needs. As fans, most of us will need the end of year results to come to a determination some of us realized at the beginning of the year.

Can't argue with that (as much as I'd like to!)

Are we content with mediocrity, or do we have the conviction to act? As he ^^ said, is it too late?

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 10:01 PM
I don't but that for a minute. You'd rather we continue down the wrong path simply because that path as been marked? Do me a favour and learn your football.

You believe it is the wrong path. I don't. I see what hard working players do for a team, I see what talented players do for a team. I've seen every combination of the two. In my experience, a team with a strong base and a few experienced, high quality and talented players is a winning team. Not a team filled with Guevara's, nor a team of Dan Gargans. You need both.

I believe Preki IS on the right path, or as right a path as you'll get in this league, certainly better then anything we've had before. Therefore I'd like to see him continue. You don't think so, and that's your opinion, which you're allowed to have. In the end of the day, we want the same thing; a winning team. I think Preki will get us there.

koryo
08-29-2010, 10:05 PM
^^ Fair enough. We've different opinions on the matter. I'm happy to leave it at that.

It's just for me, Preki has done a good job organizing us defensively, but up-to-press he's down now't in an attacking sense - and he's had plenty of time to do it.

We're going to agree to disagree. I just want this team to show a bit of fight at home for change.

Ten points dropped in draws at home isn't remotely good enough in mind is all... and I think he sets the team up for a point at home. Not good enough for me.

Of course, this time last year I was bitching about the back line to no end :D

Roogsy
08-29-2010, 10:08 PM
You believe it is the wrong path. I don't. I see what hard working players do for a team, I see what talented players do for a team. I've seen every combination of the two. In my experience, a team with a strong base and a few experienced, high quality and talented players is a winning team. Not a team filled with Guevara's, nor a team of Dan Gargans. You need both.

I believe Preki IS on the right path, or as right a path as you'll get in this league, certainly better then anything we've had before. Therefore I'd like to see him continue. You don't think so, and that's your opinion, which you're allowed to have. In the end of the day, we want the same thing; a winning team. I think Preki will get us there.

Why do you think Preki will get us there? I'd really like to know what it is Preki has done to make this team better overall. What evidence is there to get the rest of us on board with Preki?

And when I say overall, I really mean overall. I don't want you to give me the whole "we haven't given up as many goals in the last 15 minutes" because all it will invite is the obvious response that we are now also scoring less than last year as well. That does not make a team better overall it just makes a team better at one aspect of the game to the detriment of another. The standings reflect that much.

Making a team better overall are things like employing a successful system (which he has not done) attract better players than other teams (which he has not done) or dominate one aspect of the game so much that it compensates for being lacking in other areas (TFC is not dominant in any area).

koryo
08-29-2010, 10:10 PM
Why do you think Preki will get us there? I'd really like to know what it is Preki has done to make this team better overall. What evidence is there to get the rest of us on board with Preki?

And when I say overall, I really mean overall. I don't want you to give me the whole "we haven't given up as many goals in the last 15 minutes" because all it will invite is the obvious response that we are now also scoring less than last year as well. That does not make a team better overall it just makes a team better at one aspect of the game to the detriment of another. The standings reflect that much.

Making a team better overall are things like employing a successful system (which he has not done) attract better players than other teams (which he has not done) or dominate one aspect of the game so much that it compensates for being lacking in other areas (TFC is not dominant in any area).

If you're still on holidays in Spain, then surely it can wait until you return.

Just saying.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 10:17 PM
I'm not convinced Jose Mourinho himself could take our current motley crew and turn them into anything more than they currently are.

But please, let's continue our one coach per year average. Prospective coaches will be knocking down our door to be the latest one-and-done.

- Scott

H Bomb
08-29-2010, 10:21 PM
theres one constant when it comes to the hiring of every coach we've had...Mojo. He should have been fired a long long long time ago, and I cant think of a reason the teachers pension fun would fire him. So we're fucked basically. Get used to it now peoples, we're not Man United, we're Luton Town.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 10:23 PM
theres one constant when it comes to the hiring of every coach we've had...Mojo. He should have been fired a long long long time ago, and I cant think of a reason the teachers pension fun would fire him. So we're fucked basically. Get used to it now peoples, we're not Man United, we're Luton Town.

If we don't make the playoffs, I will bet you a dollar that Mo Johnston is fired. If we do limp into the playoffs, all bets are off, unfortunately.

- Scott

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 10:23 PM
I'm not convinced Jose Mourinho himself could take our current motley crew and turn them into anything more than they currently are.

But please, let's continue our one coach per year average. Prospective coaches will be knocking down our door to be the latest one-and-done.

- Scott

So you believe Preki has had nothing to do with the Motley Crew team that was built this year? All the players that were let go and their replacements were all done against Preki's will?

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 10:24 PM
Roogs, I believe what I see, and what I see resembles soccer. Yes, the points you give are valid concerns. However, you ask a new coach to come in, create a makeshift team, fix three years of incompetence while winning games and making playoffs is just unrealistic. It's like Obama fixing 8 years worth of problems while moving forward at the same time; it's just not feasible. However, I see improvement this year, in mentality and overall play. Better players need to be brought in, of course, but the ones we have also need to develop cohesiveness. The revolving door this year will be the death of us. Preki is more then capable of making us a competitive team. He needs time. Even he said this isn't going to be a one season deal. You wouldn't dismiss a business if it didn't make a profit in it's first year, when it shows all the signs of being successful; you give it a chance to grow, and get your return in due course.

Preki brings things to this team we don't yet see, but soon will appreciate. I've seen his type many times before with many teams. Give Preki time and I guarantee you we become a strong side. Hey, I said on day 1 that under a good coach with a solid d, Nick Garcia would be useful. I feel like last night I was right. Time to grow is the most important thing right now, and trust me, one day it will pay off.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 10:27 PM
So you believe Preki has had nothing to do with the Motley Crew team that was built this year? All the players that were let go and their replacements were all done against Preki's will?

I have no idea what level of input Preki has into signings. Do you?

I do know for sure who DOES have a say in 100% of the players we sign.

- Scott

koryo
08-29-2010, 10:32 PM
I have no idea what level of input Preki has into signings. Do you?

I do know for sure who DOES have a say in 100% of the players we sign.

- Scott

and tactics... TACTICS... such as they are. Mind you, Preki has the tactical nous of a brick. JUST ONE BRICK, not a load, not two...

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 10:36 PM
I have no idea what level of input Preki has into signings. Do you?

I do know for sure who DOES have a say in 100% of the players we sign.

- Scott

That's just a convenient way to not answer the question. If you really think Preki isn't building this team with players he wants then maybe he should go too, I would expect a coach to approve every single signing that comes in to the team while he's here.

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 10:41 PM
ITT: People who criticize others but wouldn't be able to get the team wearing the same kit if they were in charge...

Alright, since everyone knows what they're doing, what would you do if you were head coach? What tactics would you employ? Just curious, cuz it seems like everyone and their mothers could be better then Preki based on what's being said...

koryo
08-29-2010, 10:42 PM
I have no idea what level of input Preki has into signings. Do you?

I do know for sure who DOES have a say in 100% of the players we sign.

- Scott

To paraphrase RobM, it's down to two things:

1. he's preaching good tactics and the team isn't listening - which means he's lost the dressing room.

2. he's not preaching good tactics so he doesn't know what he's fucking doing.

Either way, he needs to fuck off sharpish.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 10:44 PM
That's just a convenient way to not answer the question. If you really think Preki isn't building this team with players he wants then maybe he should go too, I would expect a coach to approve every single signing that comes in to the team while he's here.

Not making assumptions based on having no information isn't "not answering the question". I said I have no idea how much input he has, and that's a fact. I also know for a fact that at least one previous coach made allusions to not having a lot of input on player signings.

I think there's a possibility that Preki might have suggested players like Peterson and Maicon Santos to Mo, simply because of his past connection to them, but that is an incredibly weak standard of evidence. I don't think Preki demanded guys like Mista or Adrian Cann, but again, I have absolutely no evidence one way or the other.

In fact, if I recall, several of you have talked openly about how Preki has a problem with Mista because he's not a "Preki-type" of player.

- Scott

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 10:45 PM
ITT: People who criticize others but wouldn't be able to get the team wearing the same kit if they were in charge...

Alright, since everyone knows what they're doing, what would you do if you were head coach? What tactics would you employ? Just curious, cuz it seems like everyone and their mothers could be better then Preki based on what's being said...

I'm a paying customer, therefore I criticize all I want, even if I can't do a better job.

If Coke changed their recipe I would criticize them, even though I have no idea how to make Coke.

Your argument is just silly.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 10:47 PM
To paraphrase RobM, it's down to two things:

1. he's preaching good tactics and the team isn't listening - which means he's lost the dressing room.

2. he's not preaching good tactics so he doesn't know what he's fucking doing.

Either way, he needs to fuck off sharpish.

There's a third possibility - he's preaching a certain set of tactics, and the guys don't have the inherent overall skill to pull it off. When several of your players can't make a decent pass (short or long), for example, it's hard to carry out "tactics" of any kind.

I will say in the one section of the field where you don't necessarily have to have much on the ball skill to do a decent job - defense - Preki has presided over quite an improvement.

- Scott

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 10:48 PM
Not making assumptions based on having no information isn't "not answering the question". I said I have no idea how much input he has, and that's a fact. I also know for a fact that at least one previous coach made allusions to not having a lot of input on player signings.

I think there's a possibility that Preki might have suggested players like Peterson and Maicon Santos to Mo, simply because of his past connection to them, but that is an incredibly weak standard of evidence. I don't think Preki demanded guys like Mista or Adrian Cann, but again, I have absolutely no evidence one way or the other.

In fact, if I recall, several of you have talked openly about how Preki has a problem with Mista because he's not a "Preki-type" of player.

- Scott

No, you are assuming Preki has no say in the matter and therefore throwing Mo under the bus for all signings and how shit this team is. In the world of sports, you can't possibly believe coaches have no say in who his players are. Conviniently turning a blind eye.

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 10:49 PM
There's a third possibility - he's preaching a certain set of tactics, and the guys don't have the inherent overall skill to pull it off. When several of your players can't make a decent pass (short or long), for example, it's hard to carry out "tactics" of any kind.

I will say in the one section of the field where you don't necessarily have to have much on the ball skill to do a decent job - defense - Preki has presided over quite an improvement.

- Scott

With the most shots allowed in the MLS. Yey, great improvement.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 10:49 PM
ITT: People who criticize others but wouldn't be able to get the team wearing the same kit if they were in charge...

Alright, since everyone knows what they're doing, what would you do if you were head coach? What tactics would you employ? Just curious, cuz it seems like everyone and their mothers could be better then Preki based on what's being said...

I'm with Pachuco on this one. Part of being a fan is the sacred right to criticize and armchair quarterback all you want.

Criticizing a politician doesn't require me to be a politician first. Criticizing religion doesn't require me to be the Pope first.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 10:52 PM
With the most shots allowed in the MLS. Yey, great improvement.

We have a better goal differential despite scoring fewer goals to offset it. Take all the shots you want - if you're being forced to take them in mostly less threatening sections of the pitch, it's irrelevant.

- Scott

Pachuco
08-29-2010, 10:54 PM
We have a better goal differential despite scoring fewer goals to offset it. Take all the shots you want - if you're being forced to take them in mostly less threatening sections of the pitch, it's irrelevant.

- Scott

I think Frei has elevated his game and could account for that goal differential.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 10:59 PM
No, you are assuming Preki has no say in the matter and therefore throwing Mo under the bus for all signings and how shit this team is. In the world of sports, you can't possibly believe coaches have no say in who his players are. Conviniently turning a blind eye.

Actually, you're conveniently skullfucking my argument until it no longer recognizes what I actually said.

I didn't "assume Preki has no say in the matter" - in fact, I specifically mentioned that he might have had input in players like Maicon and Peterson, because of his connection to them. Then I mentioned a couple of players whom I suspect he didn't have much input into signing - including one whom he supposedly immediately had a problem with because of his style of play.

I also said again that, ultimately, I have no idea one way or the other.

As for your statement that "in the world of sports, you can't possibly believe coaches have no say in who his players are" - again you're triumphantly erecting and then casting down your own strawman. However, I will point out that in some sports leagues, like the NHL, coaches have extremely limited input into who the GM signs and have openly admitted as much in the past. In most leagues with a GM/Coach hierarchy, the GM invariably holds the vast majority of clout in personnel decisions.

- Scott

koryo
08-29-2010, 10:59 PM
ITT: People who criticize others but wouldn't be able to get the team wearing the same kit if they were in charge...

Alright, since everyone knows what they're doing, what would you do if you were head coach? What tactics would you employ? Just curious, cuz it seems like everyone and their mothers could be better then Preki based on what's being said...

Don't buy that for a moment. I pay good money so that I can watch people WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING TELLS PLAYERS TO PLAY SOME DECENT FOOTBALL.

To date, I've seen evidence of neither. Try again.

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 11:01 PM
I think Frei has elevated his game and could account for that goal differential.

If that's your counterpoint, then ultimately this is all a difference of completely subjective opinion. Frei to me looks to be a bit better than he was last season, but certainly not improved enough to create that marked of an improvement in our defense. You disagree - fine.

I'm not looking for a lengthy, obtuse argument on this. I'm simply tired of the TFC coaching carousel.

- Scott

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 11:04 PM
Whatever. I think the dumbest thing we could do is get rid of Preki and try again. If that becomes the general consensus amongst everyone here if we don't make playoffs, well, I feel bad for this team. Dumping Preki and starting again is suicide and is typical Toronto losing mentality, as is blaming the GM for that matter.

I know it's rough now when results don't go your way, but starting over again (again) will just continue a cycle that is ruining this team. I wouldn't even want to play in a team that dumps me if I don't make playoffs my first year. The more we do this or encourage the overhaul, revolving door, whatever you wanna call it post season raging, the more we ruin any chance of ever begin successful. Good teams are not built overnight, they require time, and yes we are a firs year teAm again because hey, guess what, we overhauled again. This next season needs to be built fromthe last with the same players and coach. Unfortunately, knowing his city, we'll jus call for the head of whatever scapegoat made us lose this year and once he's gone, it'll be blind optimism until we lose again.

I hope I'm wrong and we keep our team the same. However, I have a bad feeling that upset fans are going to ruin this teams future because they didnt get immediate results...

Shakes McQueen
08-29-2010, 11:06 PM
I think this argument is all ultimately academic anyway, because I think there's, at most, a 5% chance of Preki being fired, regardless of how this season shakes out.

If we don't make the playoffs, I put Mo's chances of being fired at about 85% - maybe even higher.

- Scott

TFC USA
08-29-2010, 11:19 PM
Why are we even having this conversation?

In 4 seasons we've had marginal improvement as a squad and under Mo we STILL don't have good strikers. We're STILL having problems scoring and STILL can't win on the road.

I'm still fine with Preki for now but MO has to GO.

UltraSuperMegaMo
08-29-2010, 11:32 PM
I don't see how you can keep Preki and fire Mo. Any GM worth having is going to want to pick his own coach. No playoffs this year and they should both be shown the door.

Yohan
08-29-2010, 11:36 PM
bit of random thoughts

coaching
we could have had John Spencer (Kinnear's assistant for years, now going to coach Timbers next year). while lacking in head coaching experience, has a decent player career, plus learned his craft under Kinnear

then again, preki may have not enough time to shape the team. i think an advantage to MLS coaching is understanding MLS and NA soccer, which Preki does.
not sure how adept the comparison is, but Dallas supporters were screaming for Schellas Hyndman's head last season when Dallas was a laughing stock of the league, and his job was saved by an incredible late run. now, Dallas is probably one of the strongest team in the league right now. key factor? time for hyndman to work his system?

one of the most frustrating thing about watching TFC is that one moment, TFC is passing the ball like Arsenal. next play, stupid long ball like a Conference team. I don't know why, but I don't see a consistent mentality, regardless of who the coach is.

fullbacks
I compiled a list of fullbacks that Mo should try to get. one of the name was Chris Albright, who had a serious injury and missed most of last season. he has now been traded to NYRB, and having a strong year.
I feel another missed opportunity

ArmenJBX
08-29-2010, 11:46 PM
All Mo has to do Is sit on his ass and play manager mode in FIFA 10 and he'd do a better job. I don't think Mo is good at finding and bringing in players, and I think this way because I've given him 4 years to show me he can.

Blizzard
08-30-2010, 12:32 AM
I have no idea what level of input Preki has into signings. Do you?

I do know for sure who DOES have a say in 100% of the players we sign.

- Scott

As I said above, Preki has a great deal to do with the new players that have been brought in. Johnston isn't just acquiring players and throwing them at Preki to see what sticks.

Preki wanted these guys and Mo made it happen. He's not going to stick players with Preki he doesn't want. What would be the point.

The list I mentioned earlier are players that Preki wanted and Johnston did his best to get them here. I'm sure there were others that they couldn't get but those two work together on these things.

Some like Maicon, LaBrocca and Garga have done well to different degrees. It looks like Hardin will be ok if he can stay healthy. Peterson, Usanov and Hscanovic have struggled.

These are all guys Preki wanted at TFC, for better or worse.

Blizzard
08-30-2010, 12:34 AM
bit of random thoughts

coaching
we could have had John Spencer (Kinnear's assistant for years, now going to coach Timbers next year). while lacking in head coaching experience, has a decent player career, plus learned his craft under Kinnear

Preki was Bob Bradley's assistant at Chivas. I can't think of two more different managers/coaches. Did Preki learn from Bradley or has his ego crushed anything he learned from Bradley?

Blizzard
08-30-2010, 12:37 AM
Not making assumptions based on having no information isn't "not answering the question". I said I have no idea how much input he has, and that's a fact. I also know for a fact that at least one previous coach made allusions to not having a lot of input on player signings.

I think there's a possibility that Preki might have suggested players like Peterson and Maicon Santos to Mo, simply because of his past connection to them, but that is an incredibly weak standard of evidence. I don't think Preki demanded guys like Mista or Adrian Cann, but again, I have absolutely no evidence one way or the other.

In fact, if I recall, several of you have talked openly about how Preki has a problem with Mista because he's not a "Preki-type" of player.

- Scott

Preki did have a lot to do with Mista being on the team. Obviously he came in through JDG but Preki most definitely wanted Mista for this team.

Cann? Probably not. Mo would have had a better handle on the Canadians me thinks. Cann is our best add of this season no doubt.

Yohan
08-30-2010, 12:52 AM
Cann? Probably not. Mo would have had a better handle on the Canadians me thinks. Cann is our best add of this season no doubt.
yeah. Ibrahim Said who?

Blizzard
08-30-2010, 02:14 AM
yeah. Ibrahim Said who?

Oh ya. Wow. That seems like years ago doesn't it.

v00d00daddy
08-30-2010, 07:49 AM
I don't know guys. I don't think preki plays negative football. I think he relies on his team making the mist if their chances.

Example:

The Cruz Azul game. We scored early on our first chance and dictated the play for most of the game. Didn't look negative to me.

Then compare that to rsl. Again we dictated the play for the first half hour but didn't score. We a also looked pretty good early on against NYRB but couldn't get the goal we needed ( labrocca off the post)

it seems like you guys expect us to dominate the play from start to end but I hate to break it to you...we don't have the guys to do it.

Prekis system is dependant on the guys who are supposed to score, scoring goals. That's why he gt mo to add I that dept with maicon and mista.

He looks at guys like ibrahim, obw, and Barrett and must wonder where the goals are going to come from.

Then you wanna blame him for playing a defense first mentality?

What's the point of playing an attacking style when you don't have the guys to finish off the attack?

We all have differing opinions on what the game should look like but there are way too many supporters who have no fucking clue.

Roogsy
08-30-2010, 08:30 AM
it seems like you guys expect us to dominate the play from start to end but I hate to break it to you...we don't have the guys to do it.


At the end of the day, whether you like Preki's style, agree with his philosophy or not, this really is the barebones about the issue.

And the blame lies where? In my opinion, the lion's share on Mo, but since Preki has been a major factor in players coming and going, I would say Preki's blame on this issue is not to be overlooked and in fact as the team looks more and more like his "baby", he could take over from Mo as the one solely responsible for the choices of players on the pitch.

Pachuco
08-30-2010, 08:52 AM
At the end of the day, whether you like Preki's style, agree with his philosophy or not, this really is the barebones about the issue.

And the blame lies where? In my opinion, the lion's share on Mo, but since Preki has been a major factor in players coming and going, I would say Preki's blame on this issue is not to be overlooked and in fact as the team looks more and more like his "baby", he could take over from Mo as the one solely responsible for the choices of players on the pitch.

This is exactly my beef with Preki. Alot of people agree that this team (on paper) simply isn't good enough. But some supporter's choose to blindly ignore the fact that this team was built BY Mo AND Preki. The players that were let go don't fit the bill and the players the came in fit the bill (except Mista) of Preki's coaching style. Preki didn't come in here without a reputation and he's continued to do the same thing he's always done as a coach. When Preki signed with TFC I started to read anything and everything about Preki and quickly realized we could be in for footie I personally hate to see.

Personally, I'm not willing to see another year with guys like Peterson getting signed on this team as forwards because of their ability to track back while ignoring the fact he must be the worst winger going forward in the entire MLS. Peterson going forward reminds me of Adam Braz going forward. As long as Preki is around, there is no reason why players like this will be replaced by creative players with skill.

The players that Preki brought in are the players that need to go. Plain and simple.

It took me two seconds to find this article on google about Preki's defensive coaching style and lack of flare from his days in Chivas. The man has a reputation for a reason, unless he adjusts and starts putting some entertaining players on the field that I can associate with then I'll be calling for his head at the end of the season.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mls/news?slug=ro-chivas032308

ArmenJBX
08-30-2010, 10:02 AM
“When I got into coaching, a lot of people thought I would just be interested in going forward,” he said with a wry smile. “I am very different to that and I understand that everything starts with good defensive discipline.”

I agree with him 100%. You start off with an organized base, and then work from there. We are judging a painting when it's still an outline, and saying it's not good enough. He's just got himself started here. Preki could easily paint the best goddamn picture in the world, but if you start criticizing him in the building stage, what will happen with the outcome?

Mo Johnston, however, is like the guy who brought shitty, broken crayons and claimed he could paint like the rest of um, when he clearly couldn't.

What I'm trying to say, and what I've been saying all along, is that Preki needs time. That's all. Judge him by the end of next season, and if it doesn't work, fine. But to end a regime short and try again will ultimately kill the club.

Roogsy
08-30-2010, 10:25 AM
I agree with him 100%. You start off with an organized base, and then work from there. We are judging a painting when it's still an outline, and saying it's not good enough. He's just got himself started here. Preki could easily paint the best goddamn picture in the world, but if you start criticizing him in the building stage, what will happen with the outcome?

That is the paradox of building a team. You need time to build it but if you give the wrong guy too much time, you've wasted an opportunity. Just look at what we went through with Mo and we are STILL not rid of him.

Is Preki the right guy? That's why I asked you to provide some reasons why I am supposed to see a "great outline". You didn't, you gave me your gut feeling which unfortunately doesn't carry much weight. To believe that a great painting is coming you have to either start seeing a great outline or have been blessed with seeing previous work. We know what his previous work has been and it ain't no masterpiece.

Phil
08-30-2010, 10:32 AM
I know that at the begining of the year I was concerned specifically about this time of the season.

August, push for games and guess what....injuries.

Preki has a tendency to push the players so hard that when it comes to this time of year the players wear out. Hence the whole rotation and whatnot, but due to the type of training those guys are at the wall too.

Something to consider in this whole analysis.

Roogsy
08-30-2010, 10:59 AM
I do remember a conversation with Rooney about that at the start of the year, and low and behold it came true.

Technorgasm
08-30-2010, 11:15 AM
I have a question..
what do RPB think about the MLS set up?
is this league with teh roster and salary cap fit for clubs to be involved in domestic and international cup competitions?

Our guys looked haggard on Sat. . and I have to point to the schedule as a main culprit.

Oldtimer
08-30-2010, 11:28 AM
I have a question..
what do RPB think about the MLS set up?
is this league with teh roster and salary cap fit for clubs to be involved in domestic and international cup competitions?

Our guys looked haggard on Sat. . and I have to point to the schedule as a main culprit.

From what I've seen, opinion is pretty divided on this.

ArmenJBX
08-30-2010, 11:30 AM
I think we can certainly play both competitions, however that's assuming there's no injuries. Right now we're in a tough situation because our goalscoring strikers are out injured and OBW/Ibrahim are just not gunna cut it.

We wouldn't have this headache if the cap was gone. Toronto can afford to pay players, but this cap prevents us from doing so. Hopefully if the cap is gone, or at least given some more breathing room (ie. another million dollars) we would have depth in all areas, enough to play well in CCL and league player.

I was happy we qualified for the CCL but taking it seriously, I fear, is going to be the end of our league season.

Phil
08-30-2010, 11:30 AM
I have a question..
what do RPB think about the MLS set up?
is this league with teh roster and salary cap fit for clubs to be involved in domestic and international cup competitions?

Our guys looked haggard on Sat. . and I have to point to the schedule as a main culprit.

I think you have a point, but all the clubs are subject to an even levy of the rules.

Conceptually its a problem, but its fairly implemented so there isnt much you can do.

One of the better ideas I heard on the weekend was on sportnet. Not directly related to your point, but vailid, is the idea that if the national team calls up 3 or more players from your team, the league would allow for you to reschedule the game.

This would go a long way in insuring that our best players are ready for big matches without taxing the leauge into a position of suspending play everytime there is a FIFA break.

ArmenJBX
08-30-2010, 11:34 AM
I think you have a point, but all the clubs are subject to an even levy of the rules.

Conceptually its a problem, but its fairly implemented so there isnt much you can do.

One of the better ideas I heard on the weekend was on sportnet. Not directly related to your point, but vailid, is the idea that if the national team calls up 3 or more players from your team, the league would allow for you to reschedule the game.

This would go a long way in insuring that our best players are ready for big matches without taxing the leauge into a position of suspending play everytime there is a FIFA break.

In a perfect world... :D

National teams just piss me off sometimes. I get that it's an honor to play for your country but c'mon, our guys aren't even going to play (probably) and its like, why even ruin the club teams chances if they are just going to be subs anyways?

Phil
08-30-2010, 11:37 AM
In a perfect world... :D

National teams just piss me off sometimes. I get that it's an honor to play for your country but c'mon, our guys aren't even going to play (probably) and its like, why even ruin the club teams chances if they are just going to be subs anyways?

Up until this point all we have heard is complaints and non-compliance arguments from MLS.

To me this was something that could really work.

I know the MLS marketing people wont like the idea of rescheduled games, but someone has to put the football first in a football league.

ArmenJBX
08-30-2010, 11:40 AM
Hey, I'd love it. But, we can't make DC United reschedule, for example, because we're missing 3 guys. Travel times, cost, and general inconvenience is going to come into play. However, if it's implemented where there are scheduled "reschedule" dates for teams, maybe 2 or 3 games tops a year, which all teams agree to use if a team decides it's necessary, that could work.

Every team gets 2 "rescheduled" games which they can use whenever they need it. Also, it'd probably be fair to give a couple weeks notice.

Pachuco
08-30-2010, 12:00 PM
I have a question..
what do RPB think about the MLS set up?
is this league with teh roster and salary cap fit for clubs to be involved in domestic and international cup competitions?

Our guys looked haggard on Sat. . and I have to point to the schedule as a main culprit.

We had one more days rest then RSL on Saturday. Just saying.

Fort York Redcoat
08-30-2010, 12:02 PM
In a perfect world... :D

National teams just piss me off sometimes. I get that it's an honor to play for your country but c'mon, our guys aren't even going to play (probably) and its like, why even ruin the club teams chances if they are just going to be subs anyways?

Why wouldn't our guys play? Do you think our boys aren't starters or Canada won't want to tire them out for their league play?

And you're way off base with the inflexibility of rescheduling. Any followers of England or Scotland leagues knows they reschedule every year and THEY comply with FIFA.

Pachuco
08-30-2010, 12:09 PM
I think we can certainly play both competitions, however that's assuming there's no injuries. Right now we're in a tough situation because our goalscoring strikers are out injured and OBW/Ibrahim are just not gunna cut it.

We wouldn't have this headache if the cap was gone. Toronto can afford to pay players, but this cap prevents us from doing so. Hopefully if the cap is gone, or at least given some more breathing room (ie. another million dollars) we would have depth in all areas, enough to play well in CCL and league player.

I was happy we qualified for the CCL but taking it seriously, I fear, is going to be the end of our league season.

It's all relative. Your argument is flawed in that you suggest Ibby and OBW just don't cut it and it's because of the cap. But give 1Mill more to each team in the MLS and each team gets stronger. You can't assume TFC will have better depth when the rest of the teams will have better depth as well. RSL is pretty deep in terms of MLS standards. That's good cap management. We don't, that's bad cap management.

ArmenJBX
08-30-2010, 12:36 PM
Why wouldn't our guys play? Do you think our boys aren't starters or Canada won't want to tire them out for their league play?

And you're way off base with the inflexibility of rescheduling. Any followers of England or Scotland leagues knows they reschedule every year and THEY comply with FIFA.

No, I think they're starters, of course. I remember reading that the coach was going to use them sparingly.

England and Scotland are much smaller countries, here, you have to consider travelling and whatnot. But yeah, it's probably possible.

ArmenJBX
08-30-2010, 12:36 PM
It's all relative. Your argument is flawed in that you suggest Ibby and OBW just don't cut it and it's because of the cap. But give 1Mill more to each team in the MLS and each team gets stronger. You can't assume TFC will have better depth when the rest of the teams will have better depth as well. RSL is pretty deep in terms of MLS standards. That's good cap management. We don't, that's bad cap management.

fair enough. :)

Flipityflu
08-30-2010, 04:24 PM
we have lacked spark since Barrett got injured.

Shakes McQueen
08-30-2010, 05:10 PM
we have lacked spark since Barrett got injured.

How much longer are he and Maicon expected to be out, anyway?

Makes we wonder how we would be doing, if these guys were still in the lineup every week. Losing your primary striker is a massive blow to any team.

- Scott

Steve
08-30-2010, 05:19 PM
This is the problem with Toronto sports. We make hard-workers and bench players "stars". Gargan is not a starter, even in a piddly league like MLS. And yet we love him (even I love him) because the boy plays his keester off. On a real team, a contending team, Gargan is a bench player, end of story.

And that is where Preki's ego hurts this club. Because he can't handle quality players and only seems to be able to manage players he can run into the ground, he will never have real success, he will never manage a team that can dominate and he is not what TFC needs. As fans, most of us will need the end of year results to come to a determination some of us realized at the beginning of the year.

Agree with you completely. In fact, I seem to remember us having a very similar conversation at the beginning of the season (http://64.13.252.151/forums/showthread.php?p=1007876#post1007876) where there was a huge Preki love in, and both of us expressed that it might not be warranted.

Preki is a guy that gets credit for making a group of people overachieve. That's great and all, but if you choose a sub-par group of people, then make them overachieve to ALMOST reach mediocrity, is that really something you should be proud of? Preki took a team in Chivas that barely made the playoffs, and made a team in Chivas that never made it past the first round of the playoffs. Sure, he coaches defense first, but he also seems to be unable to handle creative players, which means that, while his games have the capacity to look more organized, his teams don't score enough goals to really step up to the plate when needed.

As far as I am concerned, Preki is working with the players he selected. The players that are left from last year are the players that are playing well. If he fails to make an impact this year, it's as much on him as Mo.

ag futbol
08-30-2010, 08:07 PM
Let's not kid ourselves, we play very defensive to begin with and by the time the subs come on, the quality of player gets so low that we`re basically playing catenaccio tactics whether we want to or not.

While Johnston is un-questionably crap, Preki needs some responsibility for this also.

There is a reason we have no true #10 type players on our team. It is because we insist (to a fault) that everyone play two-way. I apologize in advance if you think the good old days of 11 guys equally busting their ass at everything still exists, but personally I want my play-maker to create, i want my striker to score, and i want my defender to defend. I do not want 11 guys who do everything and do it poorly.

Who gives a shit if Mista is tracking back 7 times out of 10 if he puts the ball in the net. He can track back most of the time and let the guys we have who are actually supposed to clog up the play earn their salary.

Blizzard
08-30-2010, 08:36 PM
Let's not kid ourselves, we play very defensive to begin with and by the time the subs come on, the quality of player gets so low that we`re basically playing catenaccio tactics whether we want to or not.

While Johnston is un-questionably crap, Preki needs some responsibility for this also.

There is a reason we have no true #10 type players on our team. It is because we insist (to a fault) that everyone play two-way. I apologize in advance if you think the good old days of 11 guys equally busting their ass at everything still exists, but personally I want my play-maker to create, i want my striker to score, and i want my defender to defend. I do not want 11 guys who do everything and do it poorly.

Who gives a shit if Mista is tracking back 7 times out of 10 if he puts the ball in the net. He can track back most of the time and let the guys we have who are actually supposed to clog up the play earn their salary.

I have sympathies with this argument. Granted, the sport is probably more two way than ever in its existance but I grew up watching Ivan Lukacevic score a ton of goals for Metros-Croatia / Blizzard and he never got further into his own end than the centre circle.

While I can appreciate a player like Chad Barrett tracking back into his own end to make a good tackle, that is probably more because Chad is a role player striker as opposed to a pure #10. I don't expect Mista to do that and I don't want him to do that. I don't want my striker overly expending his energies in defence when we can use whatever he has in the tank going the other way!

torontocelt
08-30-2010, 09:34 PM
I think Preki has done a decent enough job so far considering all of the players that he lost. It is very hard for a team to lose experience and some quality in players such as Guaverra, Dichio, Brennan, Robinson, Vitti, Serioux etc. Sure some of them were gone before he arrived but they still played a big part in shaping the team for the past few seasons. Sure Preki probably got rid of a few himself but in the case of Serioux I am sure I read he was carrying a bad injury (was this spin?) and that he was part of a trouble making group behind the scenes (more spin?). I dont know if either of those were true but if they were then he had to go. I would have liked to have kept Guaverra but he was always going due to his previous problems with the coach, it is rare for a coach to keep a player that he has had a problem with in the past. In the case of Dichio, Robinson and Brennan TFC lost a lot of experience and that should not be forgotten.

Preki has went out and signed a variety of different players, some good and some not so good. For me I just put this down to the MLS and basically scraping the bottom of the football barrel for players. When teams have wage caps and you cannot afford to spend good money on players then you are always going to be taking chances on players. Some will work out and some wont, I honestly think it would be very difficult to pick a player when you do not have the resources to sign genuine talent. I see it now in Scotland with Celtic who can still spend a few million pounds on players but still manage to get it wrong at an increasingly alarming rate. The less money celtic have to spend it seems the more they are getting it wrong. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule, Larsson and Lubo cost about one million combined but that was a long time ago.

Preki has signed some players who clearly do not look up to it and he has inherited some players who have had a few years to prove they are up to it and have never proven that they are. I dont think though that 10 months is a long time to sort out a mess that has existed for the past four years. For me Preki has done enough to retain my faith to judge him at the end of the season. TFC is a difficult job and we could all chip in and say what is wrong but trying to fix the problem is a lot more difficult. I do think however that chopping and changing the management all the time is not helping the club and for me that problem lies with Mo who has made some ill advised manager appointments.

rocker
08-30-2010, 09:42 PM
I don't see 11 guys on TFC "doing everything and doing it poorly." I see some TFC players doing things very well, but there are weak links that Mo Johnston is not filling.

Preki's idea is correct... actually it's funny because I hear coaches on other teams (and even in the World Cup) wishing their teams "played harder" and "played for each other"... something last year's TFC was criticized for not doing. Preki has brought together exactly that.

But the question I have is this: do you think Preki is happy with the composition of this team as it stands? I don't think so. It's a work in progress. Preki is unfortunately on borrowed time, considering this team's failures in the past -- which had nothing to do with him.

Brooker
08-30-2010, 10:01 PM
But the question I have is this: do you think Preki is happy with the composition of this team as it stands? I don't think so. It's a work in progress. Preki is unfortunately on borrowed time, considering this team's failures in the past -- which had nothing to do with him.

wow you hit the nail on the head. especially that last part.

I do remember when Preki first got here, he basically said our team was shit. there are definitely still elements of shit on our team and Preki of all people sure as hell knows it.

SirBobSaget
08-30-2010, 11:31 PM
Seems this has turned into a Preki discussion thread ... the main issue I have with Preki right now is his "apparent" mistreatment of Mista. I'm by no means a soccer expert, only becoming a more or less serious fan last year. But as a new fan I find Mista's style and vision to be really exciting and fun to watch, to me hes the Atlanta Thrashers Kovalchuk for TFC. Should be the player to focus the new fan attention on.

Shakes McQueen
08-31-2010, 04:24 AM
Seems this has turned into a Preki discussion thread ... the main issue I have with Preki right now is his "apparent" mistreatment of Mista. I'm by no means a soccer expert, only becoming a more or less serious fan last year. But as a new fan I find Mista's style and vision to be really exciting and fun to watch, to me hes the Atlanta Thrashers Kovalchuk for TFC. Should be the player to focus the new fan attention on.

I think Mista has potential to be good for this team, but don't you think it's slightly premature to be anointing him the Ilya Kovalchuk of Toronto FC?

- Scott

Pachuco
08-31-2010, 09:19 AM
wow you hit the nail on the head. especially that last part.

I do remember when Preki first got here, he basically said our team was shit. there are definitely still elements of shit on our team and Preki of all people sure as hell knows it.

Ok, let's hear it, who is shit on this team or who would you replace on this team to make it stronger? I'm really curious because when it comes to our starting 11, the shit players on this team were mostly brought in by Preki or in the case of Garcia are being consistenly played by Preki over other players. But maybe we just disagree on who's shit on this team. Here is my list.

Hscanovic
Usanov - I may keep him as depth but he's not a starter.
Saric - Maybe keep him as depth when you are trying to hold a lead but again, not a starter
Harden
Garcia
OBW
JDG - Would replace for 2 solid midfielders/wingers or another DP.
Peterson
Labrocca - I would keep him but as depth, he's not a starter in the AM role.
Mista
Nane

Those are all players I would replace or put on the bench on this team. Most of those guys (except OBW and JDG by my count) were trialed and signed while Preki was coach.

So when you say Preki knows there are elements of shit on this team, I'm sorry but those elements of shit were trialed and signed while he was coach.

menefreghista
08-31-2010, 09:21 AM
JDG isn't crap, just overpaid.

And Hscanovics is so bad he lost his job to Garcia.

Roogsy
08-31-2010, 09:31 AM
wow you hit the nail on the head. especially that last part.

I do remember when Preki first got here, he basically said our team was shit. there are definitely still elements of shit on our team and Preki of all people sure as hell knows it.


Really? What elements of our team left over from last year are "shit"? Frei? DeRo? JDG? Attakora?

If we take his usual starters and look at the players he has brought in and compare vs the ones still here, who exactly stands out as shit that can be to blame for our current position in the standings? 'Cause I just don't see it.

JonO
08-31-2010, 10:07 AM
But maybe we just disagree on who's shit on this team. Here is my list.

<snip>
Harden
<snip>

Really - Harden is shit? He's a young backup defender, who has played well in that role and has stepped up admirably when call upon. He also eats up a whopping $40,000 of the cap. In my opinion he's definitely a keeper...

Roogsy
08-31-2010, 10:16 AM
I am not sure you both are coming at this from the same angle.

Is Harden a good deal at 40k? Probably. But the question of "is he shit?" is subjective to opinion. Maybe Pachuco isn't looking for a 40k defender. Maybe he wants someone with impact, in which case Harden is probably not it. I think we can all agree Harden is not a starter.

Yohan
08-31-2010, 10:29 AM
I am not sure you both are coming at this from the same angle.

Is Harden a good deal at 40k? Probably. But the question of "is he shit?" is subjective to opinion. Maybe Pachuco isn't looking for a 40k defender. Maybe he wants someone with impact, in which case Harden is probably not it. I think we can all agree Harden is not a starter.
harden also missed a year or two of footy. prior to that, was LA's defender of the year (admittly on a really shitty defensive squad)

in MLS, you need guys like Harden who are cheap in salary, but can fill in a depth role

JonO
08-31-2010, 10:37 AM
I am not sure you both are coming at this from the same angle.

Is Harden a good deal at 40k? Probably. But the question of "is he shit?" is subjective to opinion. Maybe Pachuco isn't looking for a 40k defender. Maybe he wants someone with impact, in which case Harden is probably not it. I think we can all agree Harden is not a starter.
Harden is not a starter, but the drop off when he has played has not been significant. He's just the type of utility defenseman you need in a salary capped league. You simply aren't going to have a full team of impact players. Even the top leagues need "role" players.

rocker
08-31-2010, 11:38 AM
Is Harden a good deal at 40k? Probably. But the question of "is he shit?" is subjective to opinion.

yeah, it's subjective but he doesn't state it as subjective... he states it as truth :)

anyhow, he doesn't define what it means, lumping JDG with Harden (!?!?) in the same shit list.

Harden's a decent MLS defender from what I've seen so far. He's actually what I would call good depth (in MLS terms).

He's the backup to a good MLS defender (Nana). If Harden was better, he'd probably want to be somewhere else where he could start... and he'd cost more...

El Diego
08-31-2010, 11:38 AM
Hey guys, I reviewed the TFC game for my site. I don't know what the deal is with advertising but I'm just gonna link my site once in a post here, I don't wanna be a dick and spam this forum. Anyway, we looked pretty rough out there in open play and RSL are simply just a better, more skilled team than us. de Guzman did a great job on Morales and De Rosario became less visible when put in an attacking midfield role as that essentially put him beside Beckerman. I think that his best position is up front as a false nine, but we need players who can fill his space when he drops deep for it to work. The link to the review is below and like I said, I'm not gonna link it again in a post because I like this forum to be clean. :) If anyone is interested I'll be doing a piece soon on De Rosario as a false nine and how I think it could work with TFC.

Oh yeah, one more thing, I don't think it's a coincidence the player with the most time on the ball was Nick Garcia. I think Kreis was more than happy to have that happen...

http://thefutureisstrikerless.wordpress.com/2010/08/31/toronto-fc-0-0-real-salt-lake-narrow-game-ends-in-scoreless-draw/

Pachuco
08-31-2010, 02:26 PM
Harden is not a starter, but the drop off when he has played has not been significant. He's just the type of utility defenseman you need in a salary capped league. You simply aren't going to have a full team of impact players. Even the top leagues need "role" players.

Harden would be the last person I would target on that list, because of his salary. Not saying he's shit, just saying that if you want this team to improve then guys like that have to go. Admittedly though he seems to be a decent backup but everyone agrees he isn't a starter.

Pachuco
08-31-2010, 02:36 PM
yeah, it's subjective but he doesn't state it as subjective... he states it as truth :)

You are way off base as you usually are dude. Read my email and then maybe you'll understand what I was saying.

You think I stated all these guys are shit as truth?



Ok, let's hear it, who is shit on this team or who would you replace on this team to make it stronger? I'm really curious because when it comes to our starting 11, the shit players on this team were mostly brought in by Preki or in the case of Garcia are being consistenly played by Preki over other players. But maybe we just disagree on who's shit on this team.


If that doesn't tell you that THIS IS MY OPINION and I'd like to see YOUR LIST then I don't know how else to say it. This is not stated as truth, it's stated as my opinion and I've even gone ahead and asked for yours.



anyhow, he doesn't define what it means, lumping JDG with Harden (!?!?) in the same shit list.

really? so this quote was written in Arabic? It's simple, those are the players on my list that hold this team back. Those are the first players I would look at if I was going to try and improve this team.



Those are all players I would replace or put on the bench on this team. Most of those guys (except OBW and JDG by my count) were trialed and signed while Preki was coach.


And let's not forget the entire reason for my post was the following:

1. People stated Preki knows there are weak links on this team and people have even gone to imply that Preki is cleaning up the mess he inherited.
2. I have simply provided the list of players that I would either demote to the bench or off the team in order to improve this team.
3. It just so happens my list of players are made up of mostly Preki guys.
4. This is my reason for not believing that Preki is cleaning up anybody's mess. He has his own mess to cleanup next year.

If anybody disagrees, then simply tell me which players from last year you would get rid of in order to improve this team. Or do you think we'll magically become a contender with the same roster as this year?

Roogsy
08-31-2010, 02:52 PM
This is my reason for not believing that Preki is cleaning up anybody's mess. He has his own mess to cleanup next year.

Exactamundo.

v00d00daddy
08-31-2010, 03:14 PM
We may not be getting much better results (and I'm the first person to say that results matter more than anything else) but this team IS better than last year.

Better in pretty much every respect. Unfortunately they may not have improved enough to make the playoffs...which fucking sucks.

Pachuco..you want another whole sale switch of the players? And the coach? 3/4 of a season removed from having JUST DONE THAT?

Seriously? After three years of the garbage we saw...and the terrible players that we praised? Guys who have gone on to do what exactly, since they left? (Robbo/Wynne)

How can we put up with that garbage for three years...then...get an established MLS coach who has a no nonsense approach...and preaches that we have to stop giving up goals before we do anything else (which is the right way to think) and gets rid of a ton of dead wood...and then fire him and get rid of almost everybody he brought in.

Sorry bud....it just doesn't work that way. You can pine and hope for whatever you want but you can't give a guy 20 games and then decide that he, and everybody he's brought in are shit.

IT MAKES NO SENSE!

As for Mo....that's a different story. He should have been fired last year so that a new GM could bring in his own coach and his own philosophy.

Now we have a lame duck GM (hopefully) along with a 1st year coach that may get the axe if/when the GM goes bye bye. Not a good situation.

btw...if you're making a list you may as well add DeRo to it. You're getting rid of almost every other player and I've noticed that his drop in play has directly coincided with TFC's recent lack of picking up points and lack lustre performance.

Does he make it on your list as well?

JonO
08-31-2010, 03:17 PM
Harden would be the last person I would target on that list, because of his salary. Not saying he's shit, just saying that if you want this team to improve then guys like that have to go. Admittedly though he seems to be a decent backup but everyone agrees he isn't a starter.
I think that the reason I have bolded should be the reason we keep him ;) In all leagues (and especially a one capped like MLS), there is going to be a significant drop off between starters and bench. The team that can gather the most bench players like a Ty Harden to complement their starters, will have the most depth and best chance to finish the season strong...

Brooker
08-31-2010, 03:38 PM
So when you say Preki knows there are elements of shit on this team, I'm sorry but those elements of shit were trialed and signed while he was coach.

Unless I missed a quote from Mo or something where he said Preki is 100% responsible for every signing/trial...... Maybe Preki brought in half of those players and MoJo gave him the rest? Anything is possible.

Pachuco
08-31-2010, 04:10 PM
Unless I missed a quote from Mo or something where he said Preki is 100% responsible for every signing/trial...... Maybe Preki brought in half of those players and MoJo gave him the rest? Anything is possible.

You didn't miss any quotes. It's just my stance on it. If Preki is coach and coach trials players who then get signed then Preki had something to do with the signing as well.

I don't believe Preki is a pushover and let's Mo sign who he wants.

But all this is besides the point. You stated Preki is cleaning up dead weight and I'm just curious who this dead weight is. Or are you saying he's cleaning up dead weight that came in this year? guys who came in while he was in control?

Pachuco
08-31-2010, 04:17 PM
We may not be getting much better results (and I'm the first person to say that results matter more than anything else) but this team IS better than last year.

Better in pretty much every respect. Unfortunately they may not have improved enough to make the playoffs...which fucking sucks.

Pachuco..you want another whole sale switch of the players? And the coach? 3/4 of a season removed from having JUST DONE THAT?

Seriously? After three years of the garbage we saw...and the terrible players that we praised? Guys who have gone on to do what exactly, since they left? (Robbo/Wynne)

How can we put up with that garbage for three years...then...get an established MLS coach who has a no nonsense approach...and preaches that we have to stop giving up goals before we do anything else (which is the right way to think) and gets rid of a ton of dead wood...and then fire him and get rid of almost everybody he brought in.

Sorry bud....it just doesn't work that way. You can pine and hope for whatever you want but you can't give a guy 20 games and then decide that he, and everybody he's brought in are shit.

IT MAKES NO SENSE!

As for Mo....that's a different story. He should have been fired last year so that a new GM could bring in his own coach and his own philosophy.

Now we have a lame duck GM (hopefully) along with a 1st year coach that may get the axe if/when the GM goes bye bye. Not a good situation.

btw...if you're making a list you may as well add DeRo to it. You're getting rid of almost every other player and I've noticed that his drop in play has directly coincided with TFC's recent lack of picking up points and lack lustre performance.

Does he make it on your list as well?

How do I even go on to answer the bolded question? I mean, have to assume you speak english since you are typing in english. But somehow you ask me if Dero makes it on my list, yet I don't see Dero on my list.

Now since you are suggesting it, Dero makes it on your list? That's the player you would look to replace in order to make this team stronger? please say yes so I can have a good laugh.

As for giving a guy 20 games and deciding that him and everybody he's brought in are shit, well. For one, Preki has a reputation he's living up to. So it's not 20 games. It's same old Preki. And since you think it's impossible to make an assesment after 20 games, then I'd be curious to know whether you thought the first year team was good enough to keep after 20 games. I'm willing to bet you were ready to throw that team under the bus.

v00d00daddy
08-31-2010, 05:58 PM
How do I even go on to answer the bolded question? I mean, have to assume you speak english since you are typing in english. But somehow you ask me if Dero makes it on my list, yet I don't see Dero on my list.

Now since you are suggesting it, Dero makes it on your list? That's the player you would look to replace in order to make this team stronger? please say yes so I can have a good laugh.

As for giving a guy 20 games and deciding that him and everybody he's brought in are shit, well. For one, Preki has a reputation he's living up to. So it's not 20 games. It's same old Preki. And since you think it's impossible to make an assesment after 20 games, then I'd be curious to know whether you thought the first year team was good enough to keep after 20 games. I'm willing to bet you were ready to throw that team under the bus.

No...DeRo is not on my list...because I don't have a list. I don't hate the makeup of this team enough to warrant a list of players that are "shit". You do. That's why I asked.

I don't see why you're so offended by people suggesting that they're okay with Preki...or JDG...or any other player on your list? You go so far as to question whether or not I speak english? lol

Anyways....you keep comparing this years team to the team in season 1...it makes total sense to me.

Pachuco
08-31-2010, 07:41 PM
No...DeRo is not on my list...because I don't have a list. I don't hate the makeup of this team enough to warrant a list of players that are "shit". You do. That's why I asked.

I don't see why you're so offended by people suggesting that they're okay with Preki...or JDG...or any other player on your list? You go so far as to question whether or not I speak english? lol

Anyways....you keep comparing this years team to the team in season 1...it makes total sense to me.

I questioned whether you speak english because you asked me if Dero is on my list. My list is posted in english right above your post so I just thought I'd ask.

I wasn't offended by Brooker in any way, I was trying to dig more into Brooker's thoughts around Preki cleaning up somebody else's mess. Just trying to figure out who these players are that Preki is supposively in need of cleaning up. When you throw out a statement like that, people are going to question you.

Same as I get questioned when I post the list of players I think we could ditch in order to improve this team. I have the balls to put player's names down, others don't.

Torontotonto
08-31-2010, 07:53 PM
Preki first mistake, he shouldn't have never dumped Guevara.

Roogsy
08-31-2010, 07:59 PM
He didn't dump Guevara, Guevara left on his own, probably upon hearing that Preki was making his way in.

ag futbol
08-31-2010, 09:29 PM
I don't see 11 guys on TFC "doing everything and doing it poorly."
Of course not, it takes you about a year to see things after everyone else does.

Pretty clear we track back with at least nine guys leaving everyone but the target striker to come back and defend. Both the full-backs move forward at various intervals. Both mids play box-to-box, both wingers do equal part defending and attacking.

This isn't everyone doing everything? In comparison to most teams in MLS that will push up an extra playmaker in the middle or push the winger up further on one side to advance the play.

Shakes McQueen
09-01-2010, 06:10 AM
He didn't dump Guevara, Guevara left on his own, probably upon hearing that Preki was making his way in.

As I recall (and I may be wrong), there were lots of rumours about Guevara leaving for Motagua at the end of last season, before Preki ever entered the picture.

- Scott

Roogsy
09-01-2010, 07:02 AM
That's why I said probably, at the end of the day, I don't think any of us really know when Guevara ultimately decided to leave but we do know that it was not Preki that moved him out. That being said, Preki coming in certainly didn't improve the chances of Guevara staying.

Blizzard
09-04-2010, 01:22 AM
That's why I said probably, at the end of the day, I don't think any of us really know when Guevara ultimately decided to leave but we do know that it was not Preki that moved him out. That being said, Preki coming in certainly didn't improve the chances of Guevara staying.

Amado probably decided to leave once he learned Preki was going to be the new coach.
While Preki may not have moved him out as such, his very presence was the deciding factor.

If Preki were not here now, I betcha Amado would be. He really liked Toronto.