Kljestan says Belgian league better than MLS

[Roogsy]

http://soccer.fanhouse.com/2010/08/18/sacha-kljestan-belgian-league-a-little-bit-better-than-mls/


Sadly, I don't think he's wrong.

[JonO]

I don't know enough about the Belgian league to comment, but what's he gonna say - he just moved to the Belgian league from MLS.

[Roogsy]

I know...obviously when players move there is a whole lot of fellating going on.

Still, from the point of view of the content itself rather than the context, I still think the statement is accurate.

MLS needs to increase the roster size and cap. This last CBA was a massive disappointment for me. Kljestan in Belgium is a result of a league that isn't moving fast enough to keep new and developing talent.

[Nodoubtguy]

I think maybe the setup around the leagues there might be better, but I feel that the talent is here to compete with smaller leagues in Europe

[Roogsy]

Compete yes. I don't think the Belgian league is miles ahead of MLS. But in terms of technical and tactical ability, in both respects their league still has an advantage I think.

MLS has the ability to complete because in my belief, the North American system in general develops better athletes. US and Canada have always produced athletes in many sports that are simple larger and faster. But that only goes so far.

[reggie]

give that league, in fact give any league in the world a 3 mil cap and see how good the league is..apples and oranges..

[CretanBull]

There's no doubt that the Belgian league is better. We have bigger names because of the DP rule, but league wide - and especially in terms of depth - their league is much better.

Take the top 3 players from every MLS team and put them on Belgian league teams and you'd have a pretty good league!

[denime]

not surprised at all,not just Belgian many other UEFA countries are miles ahead of MLS.In all aspects except physical play,but we all know skill will win over physical game anytime.(Spain vs Holland)

[Roogsy]

give that league, in fact give any league in the world a 3 mil cap and see how good the league is..apples and oranges..

Comparing ANY league would be apples to oranges. That's beside the point.

[reggie]

Comparing ANY league would be apples to oranges. That's beside the point.

yes thats true...but how many leagues have a 3 mil$ cap
you cant compare mls to any league because of the cap and the fact the mls is only 15 yrs old is another factor compared to some of these leagues that have been around 100 yrs,

[Roogsy]

And MLS attendance dwarfs Belgium and North American population dwarfs Belgium etc, etc. There are qualifying factors on either side of the argument.

The low salary cap is exactly my point however. MLS missed a real opportunity to reduce the chasm separating it from the other leagues in the last CBA negotiations.

[reggie]

i agree with you on that,the cap had to go up to least 5 mil.
cheers..

[TFC USA]

No shit, Sacha.

[Pachuco]

Meh, I wouldn't expect him to go there and say it's a lower level. If it's better now, it won't be for long.

[Whoop]

I think it will change with the next CBA. There are still teams losing money.

But with better prepared franchises going to better football markets, and the building of more SSS they will have no choice to a) increase the cap and b) increase roster sizes.

It will take time.

[Whoop]

But yeah it goes without saying that the Belgian league is better than the MLS.

MLS really lacks in the football IQ department.

[Lateralus]

The Belgian Jupiler league's best teams such as Anderlecht, Standard Liege and Club Brugge are better than your standard MLS teams but the rest are nothing to write home about.

I think MLS overall is on par or better than that league.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

^ I think Lateralus is spot on, the Belgian league is the SPL, they big boys are better than the MLS, but the rest are between marginally better to on par.

It's good watching though, some crazy fans in Belgium. I watched a stream of one of their playoff games last year, the fans were just going crazy.

[JonO]

I don't think the roster size is the issue (isn't the EPL roster size now similar?). The main issue is the salary cap. It's because of the cap that the drop off in quality from first team players to bench player is so dramatic in MLS. So it's not that team don't have enough players - it's that they're too afraid to rest their starters...

[Whoop]

I guess you're right about the roster size. I figure it goes hand and hand though.

It just seems with TFC they have a short bench!

[BakaGaijin]

can anyone really be surprised by this?

I like the MLS, but in reality even the J-league is better than the MLS. FACT.

It doesn't mean that MLS is terrible. It is what it is.

[Yohan]

why is people putting so much stock into Kljestan's words? not that he doesn't have his own agenda or anything, lol

i mean, if we are going to judge MLS by words of players, heck, Rafa Marquez recently said quality of MLS is about Ligue 1 and Eredivisie level. just who's words are you going to believe?

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

^ Just as an aside, Rudd Gullit and Ljungberg also said that MLS is at the same level of quality as the Eredivisie.

I guess will never know unless the MLS and Belgian league merge.

[CretanBull]

i mean, if we are going to judge MLS by words of players, heck, Rafa Marquez recently said quality of MLS is about Ligue 1 and Eredivisie level. just who's words are you going to believe?

That's insane though, and probably has more to do with catering to their own egos than an objective opinion. I've watched a lot of soccer from a lot of different leagues for a very long time...I'm not down on the MLS, but its no where near Ligue 1 or Eredivisie.

[TFC USA]

Mexican League > MLS

I don't see how MLS can compare with any major country in Europe.

[CretanBull]

Mexican League > MLS

I don't see how MLS can compare with any major country in Europe.

Thats the reality of the situation, but its not all that bad really. As a league, the pre DP years are hard to take into consideration in terms of evaluation. With the DP and the most recent CBA salaries have come up to the point where the league has earned a level of credibility, what we have to do is keeping moving in that direction.

Because its America - with a giant population with relatively wealthy people (by world standards) the potential is there for the MLS to be the biggest league in the world. Its just going to take time, we need better infrastructure, more interest in the league from fans, investors, TV, advertisers etc. Its an uphill battle for sure and it won't be easy, but the potential for this league is greater than any other league in the world.

[Oldtimer]

I'm not worried.

MLS is a long-term project. Most people here didn't follow it until TFC, and one tends to forget how its changed even since 2007 because it has been gradual. It has improved enormously.

Just like MLS in 2010 is very different from MLS in 2005 (when I first started casually following it), MLS in 2020 will be very different from MLS in 2010. Eventually the league will get good enough and rich enough to become a top league. When it is strong enough to top the Mexican league will be very significant. How it compares to Belgium, who cares (unless you're from Belgium)?

[__wowza]

the problem with increasing the salary cap (from what i've heard around the league) is that there's teams around who aren't prepared to spend that much. MLS has an AMAZING angle to it where any team has a shot at winning (DC, top of the standings last year, dead last this year. NYRB, bottom last year, top this year. etc) when you increase the salary cap you're going to create a gap that would be a death sentence for teams like dallas/san jose.

i agree that it does need to be increased, but not before the MLS finds stable markets for these teams.

[bigtfcfan]

I definitely agree. Technically and tactically there are very few leagues that are worse than the MLS. Now this doesn't mean that an MLS team cannot beat a team from, say, Belgium, because MLS players just work harder.

[ManUtd4ever]

At the moment, Klejstan is correct, but the gap is narrowing slightly every year. The level of play in North America has improved rapidly over the last few years. For example, going into this year's Concacaf Champions League MLS clubs enjoyed sporadic success but generally didn't fair well in the past. This year a record number of four MLS clubs qualified for the CCL group stage. As of last night, MLS clubs are 3-0 (TFC, Columbus, and RSL all won their CCL group stage openers) with Seattle looking to continue that streak tonight. I believe this year will be a breakthrough year for MLS clubs in CONCACAF and that is the first step towards gaining international recognition as a legitimate top level football league...

[GetGame]

I like the MLS, but in reality even the J-league is better than the MLS. FACT.

Source? (your ass doesn't count)

[spark]

I think for sure you're never going to hear a player say the league they are currently in is worse than the one they came from. "Yeah I've come to MLS and it is way shittier than League 1 ... hmm what does that say about me then?!"

If you are going to compare leagues, IMO the teams in Jupiler (and more than the traditional top three - Genk, both teams from there and Cercle Brugge too) would likely all be at the top of an MLS table.

For me though it doesn't matter and it's kinda a waste comparing. I'm likely never going to see a Jupiler game live or even really follow the league for that matter, so I'm happy just taking in TFC & MLS to the fullest.

[Carts]

Belgium League - started 1895...
Major League Soccer - started play 1996...

They damn sure have a decent head start to be better...

Carts... :D

[Oldtimer]

I definitely agree. Technically and tactically there are very few leagues that are worse than the MLS. Now this doesn't mean that an MLS team cannot beat a team from, say, Belgium, because MLS players just work harder.

Very few leagues? That's a huge exaggeration.

If you mean 1st level leagues in Europe, even then there are several leagues that are obviously worse. Hungary's league is one, just off of the top of my head.

[rocker]

the problem with increasing the salary cap (from what i've heard around the league) is that there's teams around who aren't prepared to spend that much.

You don't mean the cap, you mean the DP thing, right?
Cuz the cap itself is paid for by the league through a cut of revenue from each team. Since the cap is the same for all, the lesser revenue teams wouldn't complain about salary cap spending since they are subsidized by the bigger revenue teams. Now, this DP thing might be a different story.

[CretanBull]

Source? (your ass doesn't count)

Source - watch the games. J-League is obviously better.

[TFCRegina]

Very few leagues? That's a huge exaggeration.

If you mean 1st level leagues in Europe, even then there are several leagues that are obviously worse. Hungary's league is one, just off of the top of my head.

I'm sure Moldova has a pretty shite first league too, Lativa, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Macedonia, Northern Ireland, Wales are just a few others that are first divisions and worse than MLS.

[Beach_Red]

After the US was eliminated in the World Cup I saw a post online that said, "Okay Ghana, double or nothing on whatever you want - anything else, any other sport, winter or summer, come on."

Sure, the Belgian league is better than MLS for now....

[TFCRegina]

:canada:
But yeah it goes without saying that the Belgian league is better than the MLS.

MLS really lacks in the football IQ department.

Football IQ is something which is developing though. There's retention of players in the league (and yes you can say they're shite but they're useful in contributing to the lower levels - remember the best players in the world were trained by people who were worse than them). The retention of players in management and coaching roles will only serve to advance the game. They will develop coaching skills, they will influence the game at the lower levels as coaches and managers down in the lower tiers try to imitate styles. Players that put on camps while they're still playing are helping develop kids in North America.

Football IQ will grow with age of the league.

It's a long process but we'll get there eventually.

[CretanBull]

I think the critical next step is that we have to stop losing players to places like Belgium and Denmark. For the forseeable future we're going to lose top players to top leagues, but American & Canadian players - not the stars, but the middle of the road squad type players - need to be retained by the league, and that means that this league needs to pay a comparable wage for these middle of the road players that the 10th and 11th ranked leagues in Europe do. Forget about trying to compete with leagues in England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France and Holland - lets focus on not losing players to the leagues in that next class of leagues Greece, Portugual, Scotland etc.

[ensco]

Really, what's the news here?

We constantly lose top MLS players to Denmark and Norway (and there's no club of the historical caliber of Standard Liege or Anderlecht in those leagues).

It is 100% about the cap (or more specifically, how ours works).

I think (i) if the league minimum were $100-125K (I pick that number because it's what Usanov and Hscanovics make, so that seems to be where the "world journeyman market price " is), and (ii) if roster size was greater than 18, then MLS would be at parity with many Euro leagues.

Until then, it's not.

[BakaGaijin]

Source? (your ass doesn't count)

LOL.

BC101 is my source. It doesn't get better than that!

Seriously, like C-Bull said.....watch the games. J-league is entertaining.


jhKpYZfz8Rc

[Yohan]

Really, what's the news here?

We constantly lose top MLS players to Denmark and Norway (and there's no club of the historical caliber of Standard Liege or Anderlecht in those leagues).

brondby? fc kobenhavn?

[GetGame]

LOL.

BC101 is my source. It doesn't get better than that!

Seriously, like C-Bull said.....watch the games. J-league is entertaining.

You may be right, I just think this topic is VERY subjective, so the use of the word FACT is a stretch

I actually find the CSL more entertaining than MLS, but I wouldn't call it a better league...

[Macksam]

can anyone really be surprised by this?

I like the MLS, but in reality even the J-league is better than the MLS. FACT.

It doesn't mean that MLS is terrible. It is what it is.
J league has the skill, technical and tactical ability to trump most leagues in the world. The Japanese really know how to develop players.


Mexican League > MLS

I don't see how MLS can compare with any major country in Europe.
Mexican League is probably greater than all but a few leagues in Europe.

the problem with increasing the salary cap (from what i've heard around the league) is that there's teams around who aren't prepared to spend that much. MLS has an AMAZING angle to it where any team has a shot at winning (DC, top of the standings last year, dead last this year. NYRB, bottom last year, top this year. etc) when you increase the salary cap you're going to create a gap that would be a death sentence for teams like dallas/san jose.

i agree that it does need to be increased, but not before the MLS finds stable markets for these teams.
If they have a system like post-lockout NHL, which is probably the best out of any of sports league in the world, Dallas and San Jose would have to spend at least a minimum amount. The MLS is already strict so I could see this happening. If they implement anything soft like the NBA, than MLS will turn into a financial mess like that league.



I actually find the CSL more entertaining than MLS, but I wouldn't call it a better league...
+1 :drinking:

[Whoop]

brondby? fc kobenhavn?

Anderlecht, Club Brugge, KV Mechelen and Standard Liege have more cache than Brondby and FC Copenhagen as they are more competitive in Europe than most Scandinavian leagues.

[BakaGaijin]

You may be right, I just think this topic is VERY subjective, so the use of the word FACT is a stretch

I actually find the CSL more entertaining than MLS, but I wouldn't call it a better league...

When you've watched enough of both, it is quite apparant that it is not subjective at all.

Is J-league leaps and bounds above MLS?!? No. However, it is better quality. That is a fact.

Better players = better football = better league.

One thing that makes the J-league better is the fact that most of the top Japanese players stay in J-league. They don't move on to European clubs because they get comfortble. Nakamura was quoted as saying that he believes this hurts the Japanese National team program, and I agree, it probably does. However, it is good for the quality of the J-league.

MLS is the opposite. All the quality young Americans usually transfer to European when they start to hit their prime.

[CretanBull]

^ I was about to make a similar point...the Japanese World Cup team was made up of mostly J-League players and supplied players to the North and South Korean teams as well. America's team was made up of mostly European based players and off hand I can't think of any other World Cup players who came from the MLS...certainly not the quality or number of players that came from the J-League.

[Macksam]

It's not just that their top players stay at home but the way they develop players. Their players have the fundamentals down tight so much better than North American players. Ball control, passing and vision are all superiour traits. Their teams string together many passes, rarely give up the ball and barely have any passes go astray which is a reason watching their games is like viewing an elaborate chess match.

[Shaughno]

the problem with increasing the salary cap (from what i've heard around the league) is that there's teams around who aren't prepared to spend that much. MLS has an AMAZING angle to it where any team has a shot at winning (DC, top of the standings last year, dead last this year. NYRB, bottom last year, top this year. etc) when you increase the salary cap you're going to create a gap that would be a death sentence for teams like dallas/san jose.

i agree that it does need to be increased, but not before the MLS finds stable markets for these teams.


What? This makes absolutely zero sense to me. MLS salaries are paid by..... the league. DP salaries over the cap hit are paid by...... the team.

So unless each team is stacking up on DP's, why the fuck would anyone complain about not wanting to spend that much?

[Pachuco]

What? This makes absolutely zero sense to me. MLS salaries are paid by..... the league. DP salaries over the cap hit are paid by...... the team.

So unless each team is stacking up on DP's, why the fuck would anyone complain about not wanting to spend that much?

Huh? so you are saying that MLSE doesn't pay anybody's salary except JDG's and Mista's amount over the cap?

That doesn't make sense but I'm not expert.

How is it that San Jose is still paying Garcia's salary if it's all coming from the same pot? what does MLSE have to pay for if they don't apy anybody's salaries?

[David_Oliveira]

Huh? so you are saying that MLSE doesn't pay anybody's salary except JDG's and Mista's amount over the cap?

That doesn't make sense but I'm not expert.

How is it that San Jose is still paying Garcia's salary if it's all coming from the same pot? what does MLSE have to pay for if they don't apy anybody's salaries?

I think it means that their part goes against their salary.

you do bring up a good point. Why wouldn't you want to be an owner? The league pays for the salary. What exactly do the owners pay then? Do they pay a fee at the beginning of the season based on their salary? Does MLS take a bigger cut of revenue on the teams that do spend? It's one thing I really don't understand in this league. There is quite a bit of grey when it comes to the owners of teams in this league

[JonO]

^ League gets a portion of the gate revenue, tv revenue, etc... That's why they love us and seattle (and any other team that would draw well)

[Yohan]

It's not just that their top players stay at home but the way they develop players. Their players have the fundamentals down tight so much better than North American players. Ball control, passing and vision are all superiour traits. Their teams string together many passes, rarely give up the ball and barely have any passes go astray which is a reason watching their games is like viewing an elaborate chess match.
IMO only reason why J league and to lesser degree K league players don't make it to Europe as often is because of physical attributes. (and mentality of playing in bigger leagues)

[Macksam]

IMO only reason why J league and to lesser degree K league players don't make it to Europe as often is because of physical attributes. (and mentality of playing in bigger leagues)
That may be part of it, but I think another factor is that the J league pays reasonably well like the Russian league. A lot of Russian players could play in the prem but if it's not for a big four team or something, there really is no point in them going as they can get paid the same at home instead of going to a lesser club like Blackburn.

[rocker]

^ League gets a portion of the gate revenue, tv revenue, etc... That's why they love us and seattle (and any other team that would draw well)

ya, isn't it like 25-30%? I haven't seen the latest numbers. A few years ago someone posted a list of all the shared revenue percentages. It's great for the lesser teams, because they can spend right to the cap number even if the money they give to MLS doesn't equal the cap number.

Does CONCACAF or MLS get anything from these CL games we've been playing at BMO?

[devioustrevor]

The Belgian Jupiler league's best teams such as Anderlecht, Standard Liege and Club Brugge are better than your standard MLS teams but the rest are nothing to write home about.

I think the likes of Anderlecht, Standard Liege and Club Brugge would dominate MLS. An MLS side might be able to beat them one off, but over the course of a 30-game season their talent would show through.

[Roogsy]

why is people putting so much stock into Kljestan's words? not that he doesn't have his own agenda or anything, lol

i mean, if we are going to judge MLS by words of players, heck, Rafa Marquez recently said quality of MLS is about Ligue 1 and Eredivisie level. just who's words are you going to believe?

How many minutes has Marquez logged in MLS so far?

[Gazza_55]

why is people putting so much stock into Kljestan's words? not that he doesn't have his own agenda or anything, lol

i mean, if we are going to judge MLS by words of players, heck, Rafa Marquez recently said quality of MLS is about Ligue 1 and Eredivisie level. just who's words are you going to believe?

Dead on. What he's saying is "I sucked in MLS but I'm probably going to suck even more here!!"

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

we all know skill will win over physical game anytime.(Spain vs Holland)

Yeah. That was a total blowout.

[denime]

Does CONCACAF or MLS get anything from these CL games we've been playing at BMO?

As far I know,no.

US based teams are sharing with MLS,TFC and MLSE keeping it all for them-self,and that why I'm pretty sure CCL is on the top of the list for MLSE paper pushers.

[torontocelt]

Anderlecht, Club Brugge, KV Mechelen and Standard Liege have more cache than Brondby and FC Copenhagen as they are more competitive in Europe than most Scandinavian leagues.

Rosenberg are another Scandinavian team who have done exceptionally well domestically and in Europe in recent years.

[Roogsy]

Dead on. What he's saying is "I sucked in MLS but I'm probably going to suck even more here!!"

Yes....Kljestan sucked in MLS. Exactly. :rolleyes:

[torontocelt]

why is people putting so much stock into Kljestan's words? not that he doesn't have his own agenda or anything, lol

i mean, if we are going to judge MLS by words of players, heck, Rafa Marquez recently said quality of MLS is about Ligue 1 and Eredivisie level. just who's words are you going to believe?

Yep I have to agree here. There is no way in hell that MLS is on par with the dutch or the French top divisions. Both of these leagues not only manage to produce players of immense talent at a conveyor belt like pace and sell them on but they also manage to maintain their own leagues to a high standard and manage to keep them entertaining. I would say that the Dutch league is not as strong as it once was, it really peaked in the 90's with Ajax dominating Europe and producing so many young players at the same time who really left their mark on world football. It is crazy to think of R DeBoer, F DeBoer, Seedorf, Davids, Kliuvert, Van Der Sar and Reiziger all came through at the same time. Ajax are kind of paying the price now though for being a selling club but that is the only way for them to survive.

[Yohan]

Yes....Kljestan sucked in MLS. Exactly. :rolleyes:
he had like one amazing year. that's it. rest of the time too busy sulking because he didn't get a transfer to europe. talented player, huge ego

[Roogsy]

That statement is a red herring. He either sucked or he didnt.

[Yohan]

That statement is a red herring. He either sucked or he didnt.
more like, overrated. doesn't mean he's not a talented player. but IMO a good MLS player which isn't that special. FFS he can't even crack USMNT on regular basis

[Macksam]

Yep I have to agree here. There is no way in hell that MLS is on par with the dutch or the French top divisions. Both of these leagues not only manage to produce players of immense talent at a conveyor belt like pace and sell them on but they also manage to maintain their own leagues to a high standard and manage to keep them entertaining. I would say that the Dutch league is not as strong as it once was, it really peaked in the 90's with Ajax dominating Europe and producing so many young players at the same time who really left their mark on world football. It is crazy to think of R DeBoer, F DeBoer, Seedorf, Davids, Kliuvert, Van Der Sar and Reiziger all came through at the same time. Ajax are kind of paying the price now though for being a selling club but that is the only way for them to survive.
The Dutch league is a financial mess right now like most leagues in Europe not named the German Bundesliga.

[jloome]

That statement is a red herring. He either sucked or he didnt.

How about we qualify the original statement properly: he sucked in MLS last season, because MLS overpriced him and he didn't get to move to Celtic as a result.

He's a good player and Belgium is a good league. Someone mentioned KV Mechelen. Isn't that very recent success, as I remember them being up and down between first and second division (believe Kusch played a season or two there.)

I believe Royal Antwerp is a Man Utd feeder team as well.

[jloome]

Yep I have to agree here. There is no way in hell that MLS is on par with the dutch or the French top divisions. Both of these leagues not only manage to produce players of immense talent at a conveyor belt like pace and sell them on but they also manage to maintain their own leagues to a high standard and manage to keep them entertaining. I would say that the Dutch league is not as strong as it once was, it really peaked in the 90's with Ajax dominating Europe and producing so many young players at the same time who really left their mark on world football. It is crazy to think of R DeBoer, F DeBoer, Seedorf, Davids, Kliuvert, Van Der Sar and Reiziger all came through at the same time. Ajax are kind of paying the price now though for being a selling club but that is the only way for them to survive.


This is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison, though. You're absolutely right that there's no way MLS compares with the TOP teams in these divisions. But euro football is notoriously unbalanced, and most pro leagues only have four or five top clubs, in terms of signings.

I'd stack MLS up against the worst teams in both divisions. We'd probably lose more than we'd win, but it'd be close.

[Roogsy]

How about we qualify the original statement properly: he sucked in MLS last season, because MLS overpriced him and he didn't get to move to Celtic as a result.

He's a good player and Belgium is a good league. Someone mentioned KV Mechelen. Isn't that very recent success, as I remember them being up and down between first and second division (believe Kusch played a season or two there.)

I believe Royal Antwerp is a Man Utd feeder team as well.


Exactly. Kljestan is a very good player. Well above average in MLS. He did have a bad year probably because he was sulking all year (a stupid thing to do). However, his market value is better than most players in MLS which is why he wanted to leave. So let's leave the "Kljestan sucks" statements out of it and concentrate on reality which is that he probably thinks he is better than he is and that his statement about MLS is probably true. Any team in MLS would have loved to have Kljestan, TFC included.

Also, I find the argument that the "average MLS team is better than the worst team in XXXXXXX league" to be misleading. Well...that's not hard to do when you have minnows that sneak into the top flight teams on a regular basis. An average team could have probably beaten Derby last year. So what? We're talking about the average talent in the leagues (including the top clubs in each league which obviously raises the average substantially) comparing it to the average talent in MLS. Considering that we don't have a single world-class player playing in MLS in his prime, we can't possibly be deluded enough to be believe that MLS teams can compete in most European countries. We can't even compete against Mexican teams at the moment (on a regular basis, please don't cite the Cruz Azul game, if you don't realize that's an exception to the rule, I don't know what to tell you.)

[Beach_Red]

Exactly. Kljestan is a very good player. Well above average in MLS. He did have a bad year probably because he was sulking all year (a stupid thing to do). However, his market value is better than most players in MLS which is why he wanted to leave. So let's leave the "Kljestan sucks" statements out of it and concentrate on reality which is that he probably thinks he is better than he is and that his statement about MLS is probably true. Any team in MLS would have loved to have Kljestan, TFC included.

Also, I find the argument that the "average MLS team is better than the worst team in XXXXXXX league" to be misleading. Well...that's not hard to do when you have minnows that sneak into the top flight teams on a regular basis. An average team could have probably beaten Derby last year. So what? We're talking about the average talent in the leagues (including the top clubs in each league which obviously raises the average substantially) comparing it to the average talent in MLS. Considering that we don't have a single world-class player playing in MLS in his prime, we can't possibly be deluded enough to be believe that MLS teams can compete in most European countries. We can't even compete against Mexican teams at the moment (on a regular basis, please don't cite the Cruz Azul game, if you don't realize that's an exception to the rule, I don't know what to tell you.)


At the moment, sure, but these things aren't static. The question is, which direction are teams/leagues headed?

MLS has a different philosophy (which we debate endlessly, that's another issue ;)) but if the popularity of professional soccer continues to grow in the USA and Canada so will the quality of the players and the game. There's no reason the USA can't turn out players as good as the rest ofthe world in soccer the way they do in evey oter sport.

The top European teams are as good as they'll ever get. MLS teams may or may not get as good.

[Roogsy]

True. And I don't blame MLS for taking a steady pace to get there. But sometimes, the pace is too slow and you actually do more harm than good. Right now, the influx of fans between Toronto, Seattle, Philly and the following cities of Montreal and Vancouver allow for some aggression in terms of becoming competitive. If they continue to hold back growth, they run the risk of becoming a perpetual feeder league as opposed to a leading league. Once you cement your place, it's difficult to break the pattern.

[TFC USA]

more like, overrated. doesn't mean he's not a talented player. but IMO a good MLS player which isn't that special. FFS he can't even crack USMNT on regular basis

He can't because he sucks ass with the team. Can't pass worth a fuck and loses possession easily. He's so damn inept and I don't know why they even call him up.

[Beach_Red]

True. And I don't blame MLS for taking a steady pace to get there. But sometimes, the pace is too slow and you actually do more harm than good. Right now, the influx of fans between Toronto, Seattle, Philly and the following cities of Montreal and Vancouver allow for some aggression in terms of becoming competitive. If they continue to hold back growth, they run the risk of becoming a perpetual feeder league as opposed to a leading league. Once you cement your place, it's difficult to break the pattern.

The great philosopher Cyndi Lauper put it best, "Money changes everything."

The pace seems to slow to many of us, others think it's been very fast to get a new league up to this level. But you're right, this seems like a turning point and what happens next will be key.

[werewolf]

I concur with the originaly sentiment of pete rose-haircut, who btw scored today.

[Damien]

The MLS has the ability to continue growing into something huge!

You can talk about how you think the belgian/dutch/danish/etc etc league is so great but really, they've already hit the ceiling in growth.

[werewolf]

Pele has also hit a ceiling, while Joey Melo has room to grow.

;)

[Damien]

Pele has also hit a ceiling, while Joey Melo has room to grow.

;)

I'd argue that! :D

[Macksam]

Exactly. Kljestan is a very good player. Well above average in MLS. He did have a bad year probably because he was sulking all year (a stupid thing to do). However, his market value is better than most players in MLS which is why he wanted to leave. So let's leave the "Kljestan sucks" statements out of it and concentrate on reality which is that he probably thinks he is better than he is and that his statement about MLS is probably true. Any team in MLS would have loved to have Kljestan, TFC included.

Also, I find the argument that the "average MLS team is better than the worst team in XXXXXXX league" to be misleading. Well...that's not hard to do when you have minnows that sneak into the top flight teams on a regular basis. An average team could have probably beaten Derby last year. So what? We're talking about the average talent in the leagues (including the top clubs in each league which obviously raises the average substantially) comparing it to the average talent in MLS. Considering that we don't have a single world-class player playing in MLS in his prime, we can't possibly be deluded enough to be believe that MLS teams can compete in most European countries. We can't even compete against Mexican teams at the moment (on a regular basis, please don't cite the Cruz Azul game, if you don't realize that's an exception to the rule, I don't know what to tell you.)
Mexican teams are better than most Dutch and French teams.


There's no reason the USA can't turn out players as good as the rest ofthe world in soccer the way they do in evey oter sport.

I think you'll also see an influx of good, young Canadians enter the league in the future like the old NASL days.

[Whoop]

Mexican teams are better than most Dutch and French teams.



Says who? How often do Mexican teams play against European competition?

[Roogsy]

Says who? How often do Mexican teams play against European competition?


I think their success at the Club World Cup level as well as their competitiveness in CONMEBOL would give some circumstantial evidence to that effect, although not conclusive. I'd have to agree with his statement.

[Whoop]

Really? The best a Mexican team has done at the World Club Cup is a 3rd place in 2000.

The competition is a little tougher in UEFA than in CONCACAF.

If you use that competition solely as a basis of comparing leagues than you can argue that Asian teams (Japan, Korea and even the Middle East) are stronger than Mexican teams.

[Roogsy]

Well, anybody who knows me knows I'm no fan of dictionaries or reference books. They're elitist. Constantly telling us what is or isn't true. Or what did or didn't happen. I prefer truthiness.

[ensco]

The Mexican league might be similar to the Dutch league, I have no big opinion on that, but France? Whoever suggested this is delusional.

The domestic Mexican players on the Mexican MNT are inferior to the domestic French players on the French MNT. Even if you don't accept this as obvious, beyond that, Ligue Un is the home of most of the best players from 25 countries in Africa, including Cote D'Ivoire, as well as some seriosuly good teams such as Mali and Senegal.

Think a Cruz Azul or Chivas could regularly put together a run deep into Champions League, and knock out a Real Madrid, as Lyon has several times?

No way.

[Brooker]

The MLS has the ability to continue growing into something huge!

You can talk about how you think the belgian/dutch/danish/etc etc league is so great but really, they've already hit the ceiling in growth.


:yum: