Interesting blog of a European's visit to TFC match

[Oldtimer]

Here is an interesting blog of a European's visit to TFC vs. Chivas.

He had found U-Sector on the web, and was hosted by them, as well as interviewed one of them for the blog:

http://europeanfootballweekends.blogspot.com/2010/08/toronto-fc.html


I noticed that many people I met in Toronto actually refer to the sport as football, not soccer. :)

[Parkdale]

nice little writeup. Mostly all surface level stuff, but it's good that our surface level stuff is worth writing about.

[Heart of Stone]

"There is a crust of old journos here who resent football and wanted it to fail, because they are invested in the established sports,..."

Exactly ... only a matter of time until these old curmudgeons move on ...

[Oldtimer]

http://www.fan590.com/images/specials/show-primetimesports_200x75_sponsorRightGuard.jpg

Chief curmudgeon...

[Shakes McQueen]

Nah. Bob isn't a soccer fan, but he doesn't explicitly want it to fail. If you listen to his show on a regular basis, as I do, you'd hear that he has a more nuanced perspective on football than he lets on.

He personally dislikes it, but has nothing against people who do, and understands the skill involved in playing it at a high level. He simply dislikes how most football fans he encounters can't accept that fact, and talk as though he would like it if only he UNDERSTOOD it.

And to be honest, I see where he's coming from on that point. Many sensitive football fans assume anyone who doesn't like the sport simply doesn't "get it".

- Scott

[Whoop]

Exactly Scott.

He has no problem talking about it especially if it's relevant. And especially when he's on with Brunt.

He was around during the Blizzard days and the NASL days. He's mentioned how he tries to like but just doesn't.

And that goes for any sport though. "You'd like it if you got it."

[tfcleeds]

Yeah, didn't McCown actually do play-by-play for the Blizzard at one point during his career? If not them, it was some NASL team.

Anyhow, I don't mind McCown. It's jerkoff Simmons I can't stand - it's like he goes out of his way to try to not acknowledge the sport even exists here.

[Oldtimer]

I actually like McCown... just not so much for soccer...

[colman1860]

Probably a good choice for an 1860 fan to watch his football everywhere in the world except for Munich at the moment...

[Redcoe15]

It wouldn't bother me the least if McCown never talked anything about soccer, period. He just comes offf looking like a bufoon when he does.

[Shakes McQueen]

I actually like McCown... just not so much for soccer...

To be honest, I actually find the conversations McCown has with Brunt about soccer to be hilarious. Some of their banter during the World Cup was particularly priceless.

And of course, there's Anselmi's bi-monthly visit to the PTS studio, where he tries to goad Bob into going to a Toronto FC game, and Bob starts ranting about how he will never go, haha.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

It wouldn't bother me the least if McCown never talked anything about soccer, period. He just comes offf looking like a bufoon when he does.

I think he only comes off that way to people who don't think he "gets it". When he rants about how soccer is boring because there isn't enough scoring, for example, I kind of roll my eyes - but that's because I enjoy the sport. He doesn't.

Just as I'm sure baseball fans roll their eyes at people who proclaim that sport to be a colossal bore where seemingly nothing can happen for minutes or hours at a time.

- Scott

[Whoop]

Personally I think it's more of an act at this stage with McCown. He just doesn't care for the sport but he knows if he criticizes it, he'll get a rise out of people.

[JamboAl]

Good write-up and put us in a positive light. Did help that Gary Russell (fellow Jambo) represented the TFC supporters well.

[DavydMT]

I really enjoy listening to McCown, in my opinion one of the best broadcasters in Canada. Personally i have more issues with football supports (including few of my friend) who have no time for football in North America and only pay attention to European football, they are the bigger problem than any “crust of old journos”

[GuelphStorm2007]

Yeah, didn't McCown actually do play-by-play for the Blizzard at one point during his career? If not them, it was some NASL team.

Anyhow, I don't mind McCown. It's jerkoff Simmons I can't stand - it's like he goes out of his way to try to not acknowledge the sport even exists here.

McCown Journalist. Simmons Hack for a Lousy Paper

[McBrace]

I really enjoy listening to McCown, in my opinion one of the best broadcasters in Canada. Personally i have more issues with football supports (including few of my friend) who have no time for football in North America and only pay attention to European football, they are the bigger problem than any “crust of old journos”


Funny I just has this conversation with a friend yesterday.. I agree 100%...

[ACSertL]

There's one donkey that I can't stand...can't remember his name, but thinks the CFL is the greatest thing since sliced bread (sliced bread having been invented the previous winter).

He was on off the record tearing a strip off of football too...googling now.

David Naylor! Dislike!!

[ilikemusic]

After 5 years of being a pretty hardcore 'football' fan, I have a really hard time referring to the game as 'soccer'. Every media outlet I follow and every player I know of refers to it as football. The only people who call it 'soccer' is Canadian media (who I dont listen to for 'soccer' info anyway) and parents watching their children.

Refering to 'football' as 'soccer' feels just as akward as referring to 'hockey' as 'ice hockey'.

To me, it is sort of like, 'soccer' is to 'football' as 'T-ball' is to 'baseball'. One feels amatuer, while the other feels professional.

[Oldtimer]

I use "football," "soccer," and "footie/footy" interchangeably. All of them are perfectly acceptable, and all were invented (as was the modern game itself) in England.

What I find awkward is referring to gridiron as "football." Now that is a misnomer, if there ever was one.

[ilikemusic]

And of course, there's Anselmi's bi-monthly visit to the PTS studio, where he tries to goad Bob into going to a Toronto FC game, and Bob starts ranting about how he will never go, haha.

- Scott

Hell, TFC fans should love McCown!

As far as I know he is the only media person in Toronto to call out MLSE for ripping people off on their 'friendlies'. And he did it live on the air right to Anselmi's face!

[Shakes McQueen]

Hell, TFC fans should love McCown!

As far as I know he is the only media person in Toronto to call out MLSE for ripping people off on their 'friendlies'. And he did it live on the air right to Anselmi's face!

Yeah, I remember that segment. Anselmi just kind of kept laughing awkwardly and sloughing it off.

- Scott

[rocker]

After 5 years of being a pretty hardcore 'football' fan, I have a really hard time referring to the game as 'soccer'. Every media outlet I follow and every player I know of refers to it as football. The only people who call it 'soccer' is Canadian media (who I dont listen to for 'soccer' info anyway) and parents watching their children.

Refering to 'football' as 'soccer' feels just as akward as referring to 'hockey' as 'ice hockey'.

To me, it is sort of like, 'soccer' is to 'football' as 'T-ball' is to 'baseball'. One feels amatuer, while the other feels professional.

i've started to see that change myself too...

language is a cultural thing.. and for years previous football was used foremost for CFL and NFL. But now in most communities I'm in, nobody really watches CFL and NFL.... and we call soccer football because this game is our primary sport.

[ilikemusic]

i've started to see that change myself too...

language is a cultural thing.. and for years previous football was used foremost for CFL and NFL. But now in most communities I'm in, nobody really watches CFL and NFL.... and we call soccer football because this game is our primary sport.

Partly that, and also, if I am talking about the NFL, I say 'NFL'. If I am talking about the CFL, I say 'CFL'. We have always had to differentiate between American and Canadian football so calling either one simply 'football' just doesnt make much sense.

[Section 117]

I use "football," "soccer," and "footie/footy" interchangeably. All of them are perfectly acceptable, and all were invented (as was the modern game itself) in England.

What I find awkward is referring to gridiron as "football." Now that is a misnomer, if there ever was one.


For Me it depends on who I am talking to if I am with people who know nad understand the game it is football if it is someone who doesn't have a clue then it is soccer

[ilikemusic]

For Me it depends on who I am talking to if I am with people who know nad understand the game it is football if it is someone who doesn't have a clue then it is soccer

Thats basically it. If I know im just going to confuse them by saying 'football', then I will just say 'soccer'. Its at the point where that feels pretty akwards though.

[Shakes McQueen]

It's contextual. If I'm talking to someone about soccer, or talking on a forum like this, I will use "football" under the implicit assumption that people will understand what I mean.

In most other settings, I will use "soccer" so as not to unnecessarily confuse the issue.

Neither term is superior to the other. "Soccer" is an equally legitimate term. It's all just language, and that's what it's predominantly called here. Just like "garbage" isn't an inherently superior or inferior word to "rubbish".

If people understand what you are saying, then the words have done their job.

- Scott

[tfcleeds]

I just don't understand why Brits get all up in arms when you do refer to it as "soccer" - I mean, they invented the bloody term!

[pedro]

I've been watching a history of Arsenal video and every single time they show archive footage, from the 30s to the 70s, the commentators of the time call it "soccer". I think we need to embrace this term, not as a second-class word, but as an equal to "football".

Remember, technically speaking, it's called "association football".

[rocker]

I prefer "football" since it represents exactly what it is. Foot + ball. Simple.

[Bars92]

Its a matter of Timbits 'soccer' vs Wimbeldon, Leeds etc. 1970's style football.
At least to me anyways.

I don't think anyone can play 'soccer' properly unless they think of it as 'football'.

[Oldtimer]

I've been watching a history of Arsenal video and every single time they show archive footage, from the 30s to the 70s, the commentators of the time call it "soccer". I think we need to embrace this term, not as a second-class word, but as an equal to "football".



I remember hearing someplace that "soccer" became a second-class word in the UK only in the 1970's, with the notoriety of the North American Soccer League.

[prizby]

I prefer "football" since it represents exactly what it is. Foot + ball. Simple.


so does American football, Gaelic Football, Canadian Football, and Aussie "rules" football

they play on there feet with a ball...hense why these sports were called football at first

[CanadaLFC]

To be fair, I was watching Liverpool FC: The official history, and back in the day a lot of the commentators reffered to it as soccer on British television.

Anyways, Im glad this dude had fun being at BMO field...and realized we are not some mickey-mouse team.

[T_Mizz]

I find it pretty odd that so many people don't realize that the term soccer was invented and used by the English.

[Kaz]

Quick and basic history lesson on Football.

Football developed into two basic rule sets by the mid 19th century. Rugby Football, and Association Football.

Rugby Football became known as Rugby and
Association Football as either Football or Soccer (a short of Association)

In North America the game of Rugby evolved into Canadian Rugby Football as known as just American Football in the US. by the 1950s the word Rugby was removed entirely from Canadian Football jargon.

Thus Pointyball is a evolution of Rugby Football not Association Football

The article was good, nice to see other enjoy it the atmosphere at BMO

[Heart of Stone]

Rugby League is a better game than Rugby Union....

[WestStandGeoff]

so does American football, Gaelic Football, Canadian Football, and Aussie "rules" football

they play on there feet with a ball...hense why these sports were called football at first

I find it ironic that, at least with Canadian/American football, the only time a foot intentionally comes in contact with the ball results in the kicking team losing possession.

[Shakes McQueen]

I remember hearing someplace that "soccer" became a second-class word in the UK only in the 1970's, with the notoriety of the North American Soccer League.

Just adds more fuel to the fire of evidence that the derision for the word "soccer" overseas has more to do with arrogant Euro-snobbery, than any problem with the actual word.

- Scott

[Dub Narcotic]

Just adds more fuel to the fire of evidence that the derision for the word "soccer" overseas has more to do with arrogant Euro-snobbery, than any problem with the actual word.

- Scott

When I hear someone making a stink about 'soccer', I automatically put them into a bin in my mind along with people who brag about not having a television or similar nonsensically pretentious claims. I'm surprised The Onion hasn't done an 'Area Man' on the phenomenon yet, jeebus knows it's an area ripe for satire.

[Parkdale]

...the commentators of the time call it "soccer". I think we need to embrace this term, not as a second-class word, but as an equal to "football".

that would be ideal.


I grew up playing 'soccer' and my first paid job was reffing 'soccer'.
Do I get think that calling the sport 'soccer' is wrong? Not at all.
Is calling it 'football' more accurate than soccer? Well technically yes,
but it's also open to more confusion (as it's shared with another sport)

in the end, whatever.

[Shakes McQueen]

that would be ideal.


I grew up playing 'soccer' and my first paid job was reffing 'soccer'.
Do I get think that calling the sport 'soccer' is wrong? Not at all.
Is calling it 'football' more accurate than soccer? Well technically yes,
but it's also open to more confusion (as it's shared with another sport)

in the end, whatever.

The thing is, "football" isn't even technically more accurate. More evocative of what the sport is? Possibly. But more accurate? No way. Certainly no more accurate than it would be to call baseball "handbat" instead. And we could rename the game of pool to "stickball".

Is the ball shaped like a foot? Is it made out of feet?

The derision for "soccer" is snob bullshit, plain and simple. If someone says "soccer", and you instantly know what they are referring to, then the word is accurate.

- Scott

[Parkdale]

like I said...


in the end, whatever.

[Parkdale]

Certainly no more accurate than it would be to call baseball "handbat" instead.


baseball seems pretty straightforward to me - there's bases and there's balls.

just like basketball - the game is about putting the balls in the basket. simple.


'Football' (aka NFL) could mean you have a ball, and run on your feet. The main item is the ball and the player. There's no 'base' or 'basket' so all that's left is the running game, and therefore 'football'.


I just running with the idea here.

[TFCknw]

LOL sorry Mike. IMO baseball is not as straightforward as bases, bats and balls. I happen to know because i've been following it longer than you've been alive and that's a long time. LOL

[Parkdale]

LOL sorry Mike. IMO baseball is not as straightforward as bases, bats and balls. I happen to know because i've been following it longer than you've been alive and that's a long time. LOL


obviously it's more involved than that, but you still need to come up with a simple name for the sport.

I wonder if hit-the-ball-before-3-strikes-and-your-out-unless-you-round-the-basesball would have caught on?
and football is more involved than just 'feet and balls' and basketball is more involved than just 'baskets and balls'.

[rocker]

The thing is, "football" isn't even technically more accurate. More evocative of what the sport is?

How is "football" not technically more accurate than "soccer" in representing what the sport is?
Soccer is an abstract word. It's a step removed from the actual thing it represents.
Football has the key elements of the sport right in the word.

The complaint against "soccer" need not be snobbish or involve derision. It can simply be based on simplicity.

I prefer "football" for that reason. I also think that "football" is the term predominantly used on the planet to describe the game, so it's a bonus to use that word. Simple, and it's the word pretty much everyone on the planet uses.

[Roogsy]

Meh...I like the game that is played at BMO Field, whatever it is called.

As for the article...I really irked me when I came to the part about the "DP" rule and came to the realization that our two DPs may very well not score a single goal this year.

:hulk:

[Shakes McQueen]

How is "football" not technically more accurate than "soccer" in representing what the sport is?
Soccer is an abstract word. It's a step removed from the actual thing it represents.
Football has the key elements of the sport right in the word.

The complaint against "soccer" need not be snobbish or involve derision. It can simply be based on simplicity.

I prefer "football" for that reason. I also think that "football" is the term predominantly used on the planet to describe the game, so it's a bonus to use that word. Simple, and it's the word pretty much everyone on the planet uses.

"A step removed from the thing it represents"? Words are created specifically to represent things. The only reason "juice" is evocative of the liquid squeezed out of a fruit, for example, is because we decided it was when it was coined - technically, from your perspective, "fruitliquid" should be a more accurate word for it.

On this continent, how is it an issue of "simplicity" to call it football, when we already have a popular sport called football? Having two sports with exactly the same name is the antithesis of simplicity - in fact, it intentionally obfuscates. The point is - you can say "soccer" to anyone who speaks English, particularly in North America, and they will know exactly what you are talking about. That is the definition of linguistic "accuracy".

Lastly - no, the sport is not called "football" by everyone on the planet.

- Scott

[GBV]

After 5 years of being a pretty hardcore 'football' fan, I have a really hard time referring to the game as 'soccer'. Every media outlet I follow and every player I know of refers to it as football. The only people who call it 'soccer' is Canadian media (who I dont listen to for 'soccer' info anyway) and parents watching their children.

Refering to 'football' as 'soccer' feels just as akward as referring to 'hockey' as 'ice hockey'.

To me, it is sort of like, 'soccer' is to 'football' as 'T-ball' is to 'baseball'. One feels amatuer, while the other feels professional.

kinda backwards though. much of the rest of the world refers to it as "ice hockey" whereas we call it "hockey."
and much of the rest of the world refers to "soccer" as "football" whereas we call it "soccer."

i call it soccer.
when j. devos says "football" it sounds kinda faux to me.

[GBV]

How is "football" not technically more accurate than "soccer" in representing what the sport is?
Soccer is an abstract word. It's a step removed from the actual thing it represents.
Football has the key elements of the sport right in the word.

The complaint against "soccer" need not be snobbish or involve derision. It can simply be based on simplicity.

I prefer "football" for that reason. I also think that "football" is the term predominantly used on the planet to describe the game, so it's a bonus to use that word. Simple, and it's the word pretty much everyone on the planet uses.

seeking "technical" accuracy for the names of things would make it a really, really long day at the office.

[GuelphStorm2007]

Where I come from we call it Calcio, But ever since I was very young I have always called my favorite sport Soccer and will continue to call it that. As far as the Brits calling it Football if they are comfortable with that well let them

[Heart of Stone]

obviously it's more involved than that, but you still need to come up with a simple name for the sport.

I wonder if hit-the-ball-before-3-strikes-and-your-out-unless-you-round-the-basesball would have caught on?
and football is more involved than just 'feet and balls' and basketball is more involved than just 'baskets and balls'.

Cricket is far superior to baseball ... on this there can be no doubt.

[Shakes McQueen]

Where I come from we call it Calcio, But ever since I was very young I have always called my favorite sport Soccer and will continue to call it that. As far as the Brits calling it Football if they are comfortable with that well let them

This is my point. Everyone has their own word for it. I will use "soccer" around people for whom "soccer" is a better reference for them. I will generally use "football" in settings like this forum, or if I'm talking about the sport with other overt football fans.

Both are proper words. Both do the job. Both are accurate.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

This is my point. Everyone has their own word for it. I will use "soccer" around people for whom "soccer" is a better reference for them. I will generally use "football" in settings like this forum, or if I'm talking about the sport with other overt football fans.

Both are proper words. Both do the job. Both are accurate.

- Scott

And that's pretty much it for this tired topic. :rolleyes:

[rocker]

This is my point. Everyone has their own word for it. I will use "soccer" around people for whom "soccer" is a better reference for them. I will generally use "football" in settings like this forum, or if I'm talking about the sport with other overt football fans.

Both are proper words. Both do the job. Both are accurate.

- Scott

but what's interesting is that language use in the general public changes over time.

I see a power play going on over usage of the word football in Toronto, as fans of the game that predominantly uses a foot and a ball, confidently proclaim the sport "football."

In a way, it suggests the rise of the sport itself to mainstream acceptability here. The fact that I can say I'm going to the "football" game and people don't automatically assume I mean the Argo game, is far from being "tired" as a topic of discussion -- it's amazing.

[Shakes McQueen]

but what's interesting is that language use in the general public changes over time.

I see a power play going on over usage of the word football in Toronto, as fans of the game that predominantly uses a foot and a ball, confidently proclaim the sport "football."

In a way, it suggests the rise of the sport itself to mainstream acceptability here. The fact that I can say I'm going to the "football" game and people don't automatically assume I mean the Argo game, is far from being "tired" as a topic of discussion -- it's amazing.

But again, you're operating under the presumption that "football" is the correct term for the sport, and therefore it's a great thing that it's usage is expanding on our shores (at least in your experience, apparently).

My contention is that soccer is an equally "correct" term for the sport. "Football" is derived from the nature of the sport, just as "soccer's" etymology stems from "association football". And as others have pointed out, the Brit's themselves used "soccer" interchangeably for years in referring to the sport.

Use whatever term you like. Just understand that neither is superior to the other. Words either do their job, or they don't. Same with calcio, or futbol, or any of the other myriad names for the sport.

- Scott

[Pachuco]

You guys need to watch more MLS commercials

Football, Futbol, Soccer :)

[akoto]

2 pages of this argument again? Parky sums it up the best... "whatever".

[Shakes McQueen]

2 pages of this argument again? Parky sums it up the best... "whatever".

As long as arguments don't get angry or stupid, I always enjoy having them.

But yes, I think I will actually let Pachuco's post signal the end of my input on the topic, haha.

- Scott

[flatpicker]

2 pages of this argument again? Parky sums it up the best... "whatever".


I'll be even more succinct...

Whatevs

[Shakes McQueen]

I'll be even more succinct...

Whatevs

Actually, "whatever" is technically just as succin...

Oh fuck it. :D

- Scott

[rocker]

the funny thing is, you guys keep coming back to the thread. hahaha.

[Brooker]

The fact that I can say I'm going to the "football" game and people don't automatically assume I mean the Argo game,

Surely the majority of them would think you were talking about the Argos though, right? We're talking average Canadians right? Because I've tried that and it rarely ever worked. I've even said it to an English friend of mine and he said "I didn't know you liked the Argos." lol.

Personally I'd rather call it Football, too... but I don't. I can get my point across MUCH easier by calling it Soccer and avoid the inevitable confusion and sometimes argument. What would I have to gain by calling it Footy other than a possible headache?

[Heart of Stone]

Just call it "MLS" ... the same way people usually call it "UFC" and not mixed martial arts.

The Argos become "CFL"...

[Borga]

Can we call it "flop", in honour of the recent world cup final match?

[james]

so does American football, Gaelic Football, Canadian Football, and Aussie "rules" football

they play on there feet with a ball...hense why these sports were called football at first

alot of people dont know that Canadian Football was originally called Rugby Football....and later became just Football!

I kinda wish it was still called Rugby Football its obvious Football just was a slower pace version of Rugby with more equipment and stopage and commercials and all.