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View Full Version : Detroit Silverdome a possible SSS?!



Keystone FC
08-09-2010, 01:24 AM
Interesting and aggresive proposal for renovating the Silverdome into a SSSish to attract a MLS expansion club or current MLS club (cough**DCU**cough):
http://www.mlive.com/soccer/index.ssf/2010/08/tear_the_roof_off_unique_plans_to_turn_silverdome_ into_concert_hall_indoor_sports_arena_soccer_speci fic_stadium_to_lure_major_league_soccer.html

Nestease
08-09-2010, 02:35 AM
The guy who bought the Silverdome is a Greek guy from Toronto. I listened to some interviews with him on the radio after he purchased the stadium for a measly half a million dollars. He's also a big soccer fan.

They asked him what he would do with the stadium. He said was going to focus on the major renovations it needed for the time being. They then asked him what he'd like to do with the stadium once it was renovated. He was very interested in bringing soccer to that stadium. He never mentioned MLS, but said he wanted to host some big clubs in the stadium for friendlies. He was very confident in bringing soccer to that stadium and sounded like it was his priority.

DichioTFC
08-09-2010, 03:05 AM
DetroitTFC could speak to this better than I can, but there is a pretty big movement to get the MLS to come to Michigan. 30,000+ at an exhibition between Panathinakos and Milan is more than Toronto averages for comparable friendlies.

Motor City Supporters (http://www.motorcitysupporters.com/)are taking the charge on the initiative from a grassroots level, and hopefully it happens soon.

Redcoe15
08-09-2010, 07:02 AM
I don't know if the Silverdome is suitable as is for an MLS team. But I'd love to see Detroit get a team. There'd be a great rivalry between them and TFC, as well as Chicago and Columbus.

Cas87
08-09-2010, 08:35 AM
The other 2012 or 2013 expansion team?
Because with Vancouver and Portland in 2011 and Montreal in 2012 that leaves the league with 19 teams, one maore makes an even twenty

Detroit_TFC
08-09-2010, 08:38 AM
The Silverdome owners' plan is kinda wild and I don't know if it is even feasible from an engineering standpoint. Worse comes to worst, the stadium as it is today could be used (maybe with a new FieldTurf surface and tarping off the second and third tier, not ideal but possible). The owners have had preliminary talks with MLS bigwigs, and there were some MLS functionaries at the ACM-Pana game. I think Detroit is now in the second tier of possible expansions, about level with Atlanta. If the NYC-2 team falls through, 20th team slot is a possibility. I wouldn't have said this even three months ago.

flatpicker
08-09-2010, 08:44 AM
I have no idea how well a Detroit club would do as far as fan numbers goes,
But it sure would be nice to have another team (after Montreal) that is within decent traveling distance.

rocker
08-09-2010, 08:48 AM
The Silverdome owners' plan is kinda wild and I don't know if it is even feasible from an engineering standpoint. .

What's the plan? Rip off the roof like they are doing in Vancouver?

boban
08-09-2010, 08:50 AM
God bless him for his ambition but this will never work.
The stadium is 45 min away from Detroit.

C.Ronaldo
08-09-2010, 08:57 AM
^ would you like to stop at a red light in downtown detroit for a night game?

boban
08-09-2010, 09:22 AM
^ would you like to stop at a red light in downtown detroit for a night game?
Apparently they do for the Tigers, Lions and Red Wings.

Having said that, who said anything about downtown?
Why do things have to be in extreme on this board?
Downtown to 45-60 min is a huge middle.
They could find a place just inside the borders of the city which work fine and not be in the downtown core.

nobodybeatsthewiz
08-09-2010, 09:23 AM
the ghost of the lions will never allow it. they'll haunt the future tenant with mediocrity and pathetically embarrassing play.

Cashcleaner
08-09-2010, 09:33 AM
This topic was discussed a while back though I believe someone had mentioned that the new owner didn't seem actually interested in bringing an MLS team to the venue. I don't know much about the sports scene in Detroit, but this doesn't seem like a likely scenario to me. Pontiac is wayyyy outside of Detroit proper, and while it's easy to see people making the trek north to watch the Lions play, I have my doubts that they will do the same for soccer.

rocker
08-09-2010, 09:36 AM
i think there are better markets out there than Detroit, given the problems it is having economically.

But Garber will always encourage even marginal cities, because it creates a climate of competition for the next round of expansion.

C.Ronaldo
08-09-2010, 10:55 AM
detroit is a sports city

prove you can make money in a sports city, then your golden

same with boston



new york on the other hand is a Yankees city, but the sheer masses of people that live in NY make it viable to anything as long as you can get a piece of the pie

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-09-2010, 10:58 AM
detroit is a sports city

prove you can make money in a sports city, then your golden

same with boston



new york on the other hand is a Yankees city, but the sheer masses of people that live in NY make it viable to anything as long as you can get a piece of the pie

somehow the REVs have to get into BOSTON..then they would be Golden

Boston Shamrocks FC...;)

Cas87
08-09-2010, 11:27 AM
somehow the REVs have to get into BOSTON..then they would be Golden

Boston Shamrocks FC...;)

With the friendly at Fenway this past summer do you think its possible to have the Revs play there?
The MLB sched is usually out before the MLS sched so they can plan around some events.

Thoughts?

rocker
08-09-2010, 11:47 AM
The Revs wouldn't play in Fenway since they don't own it. MLS has been trying forever to get teams into their own stadiums to control all revenue streams. The Revs' owner owns Gillette stadium.

From what I read recently, they are once again investigating locations in Boston for an SSS. They even told STHs it's something they want down the line: an SSS in Boston.

Canary Canuck
08-09-2010, 02:03 PM
The Pistons are losing a ton of money and the Red Wings can't sell out playoff games. It's tough times for sports in Detroit.

The one thing I would like is another close away game

TFC USA
08-09-2010, 02:08 PM
I hate when matches are played in domes.

No way.

twistedchinaman
08-09-2010, 04:35 PM
Great plan, too ambitious for times like these. Canary Canuck already nailed it straight across the head, the fact that it's in Pontiac is the gunbutt to the temple. Dallas is already struggling because they're in effin' Frisco, TX.

Dallas (Frisco): 33 mins from downtown, no LRT access (none planned either)
Detroit (Pontiac): ~45 min from downtown, Amtrak 3x a day (to and from Chicago)

It doesn't look any better. Let's just put this to bed kiddies: It just ain't gonna happen -- whoever said it: 10 points to you.

ag futbol
08-09-2010, 04:54 PM
Believe it when i see it.

You talk to a lot of savy economic people right now and they say what's happening to Detroit is amost development in reverse.

The place is going through some very hard times.

Jamaicanadian
08-09-2010, 04:57 PM
I hate when matches are played in domes.

No way.


Saw Brazil v. Sweden there in 'WC94...Great venue, good sight lines but man was it hot in there!

dupont
08-09-2010, 05:27 PM
The Silverdome owners' plan is kinda wild and I don't know if it is even feasible from an engineering standpoint. Worse comes to worst, the stadium as it is today could be used (maybe with a new FieldTurf surface and tarping off the second and third tier, not ideal but possible). The owners have had preliminary talks with MLS bigwigs, and there were some MLS functionaries at the ACM-Pana game. I think Detroit is now in the second tier of possible expansions, about level with Atlanta. If the NYC-2 team falls through, 20th team slot is a possibility. I wouldn't have said this even three months ago.

I just hope you would stay on course with TFC if Detroit ever gets a team! :)
:scarf:

Waggy
08-09-2010, 06:02 PM
Even with a [slightly imperfect] venue already standing, is Detroit really the market MLS wants to expand into? What about St Louis? Miami? Even Puerto Rico (there was a pretty interesting thread about the Islanders on Big Soccer)? I don't see how Detroit as a sports market right now compares. Illich (sp?) might be buying the Pistons just to keep them from moving, and in the same ESPN story they talk about how Joe Lewis is going to need some money put in to it in the near future as well to keep it economically viable. But wheres that money going to come from? How many Pizza's can the guy sell*?


And not to derail the thread but DetroitTFC I have a question. I remember when the guy bought the Silverdome there was a bit of talk about potentially putting a CFL team there, since renovating the stadium to accommodate another sport was too expensive. Was there any traction there? Is it possible/would it do ok? (Hamilton may be moving at the end of next season, and may need a temporary home. In this region there aren't exactly spare 25-30 000 seat football stadiums kicking around and it may take a few years to get a deal with a new city for a new stadium, then to actually build it...)



*(Note in the off chance someone in Little Caesers is reading this- You'd sell a lot more pizza and a LOT more crazy bread if he put one near York U. Seriously, wtf, how is such a huge market for pizza still woefully underserved? Wheres my damn crazy bread)

nobodybeatsthewiz
08-09-2010, 06:07 PM
Saw Brazil v. Sweden there in 'WC94...Great venue, good sight lines but man was it hot in there!

huge, good for you, man. must've been quite the experience!

nobodybeatsthewiz
08-09-2010, 06:09 PM
ps. i should say, i love my pathetic piece of garbage leos and hope no one else ever soils (and by soils, i means outperforms) our dear dear grey concrete cathedral that was the almighty silverdome. may any future tenants carry a hex on them with a thousand-strong biblical bounty of locusts, snakes, lepers and all of societies other n'er do wells.

pps. wayne fontes forever!

Carts
08-09-2010, 09:30 PM
The ghost of Andre the Giant haunts the Silverdome...

First loss in 20-years happened in front of 97,173 - and at 7'5" that's one big ass ghost...!!!

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc253/toontownjuggalo/RSLN-fan/Hulkamania/WrestlemaniaIII-PontiacSilverdome-9.jpg

Carts... :)

SilverSamurai
08-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Great plan, too ambitious for times like these. Canary Canuck already nailed it straight across the head, the fact that it's in Pontiac is the gunbutt to the temple. Dallas is already struggling because they're in effin' Frisco, TX.

Dallas (Frisco): 33 mins from downtown, no LRT access (none planned either)
Detroit (Pontiac): ~45 min from downtown, Amtrak 3x a day (to and from Chicago)

It doesn't look any better. Let's just put this to bed kiddies: It just ain't gonna happen -- whoever said it: 10 points to you.
+1.
Not going to happen.

A CFL team might have a shot though. But personally I'd rather see one out east...

Kaz
08-11-2010, 07:50 AM
The plan doesn't even make sense... convert the lower bowl into two arena's hockey and basketball, and then roof that and on top of that roof put a soccer pitch that is accessible to the upper bowl? That is some far away stands. It would make three horrible places to watch anything... and most likely wouldn't be great to play either.

Detroit_TFC
08-11-2010, 10:21 AM
I just hope you would stay on course with TFC if Detroit ever gets a team! :)
:scarf:

It's a weird situation but I've been singing for TFC for four years now, I can't see turning my back on that. I would go see the Det team regularly though. There are some Crew fans here who are in the same boat.

On the plan: TSE wants to divide the SD horizonally, take off the roof, and use the upper bowl as a 30K open air SSS. The lower area would be a multi purpose sports arena. I've seen some renderings of this, but the engineering is questionable. In short, TSE wants to use the SD rather than scrapping it and building something new.

Detroit_TFC
08-11-2010, 10:30 AM
Great plan, too ambitious for times like these. Canary Canuck already nailed it straight across the head, the fact that it's in Pontiac is the gunbutt to the temple. Dallas is already struggling because they're in effin' Frisco, TX.

Dallas (Frisco): 33 mins from downtown, no LRT access (none planned either)
Detroit (Pontiac): ~45 min from downtown, Amtrak 3x a day (to and from Chicago)

It doesn't look any better. Let's just put this to bed kiddies: It just ain't gonna happen -- whoever said it: 10 points to you.

The teams in Detroit are moving back to the center city, apparently Illitch is buying the Pistons and moving them back downtown. Ideally the SSS should be on the riverfront, but having a stadium in hand for nothing ($580K = nothing, for a 80K seat stadium and 120+ acres of land) means you can accept an non-ideal location. Who knows, the location might be a deal breaker. The business case of having a team here has to work this out.

Keystone FC
08-11-2010, 09:06 PM
It's a weird situation but I've been singing for TFC for four years now, I can't see turning my back on that. I would go see the Det team regularly though. There are some Crew fans here who are in the same boat.

I remember Jack (when he was prez) asking me about Philly coming into the league, kind of feeling for where my heart was as a supporter I guess. I told him even if Pittsburgh got a MLS club that TFC would be my club to support. Toronto Til I Die! I actually take that stuff seriously.

jimiv
08-12-2010, 06:46 AM
Wouldn't he be better off by tearing of the roof AND the upper decks and just having one venue to try and fill?

__wowza
08-12-2010, 08:24 AM
Wouldn't he be better off by tearing of the roof AND the upper decks and just having one venue to try and fill?

are you kidding? and miss the running man like spectacle that they're attempting to create by running three separate venues?

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-3/the-running-man-3.jpg

james
08-12-2010, 08:58 AM
DetroitTFC could speak to this better than I can, but there is a pretty big movement to get the MLS to come to Michigan. 30,000+ at an exhibition between Panathinakos and Milan is more than Toronto averages for comparable friendlies.

Motor City Supporters (http://www.motorcitysupporters.com/)are taking the charge on the initiative from a grassroots level, and hopefully it happens soon.

Toronto sold out +50,000 at the sky dome for friendlies before 2007 when there would only be a few chances a year to see pro soccer. Once TFC came in 2007 all of a sudden friendlies didnt matter so much to this city because we now have 20 games or more a season to go see. Same would go for Detroit, 30,000 is easy to draw when its the only soccer game of the year.

james
08-12-2010, 09:06 AM
Detroit is in huge trouble and dont think it could support a team right now, exspecially not 40 mins away from the city. And fans will travel for NFL games but for MLS soccer teams like Dallas, New England, Chicaogo are showing people just dont like to travel far for a soccer game.

james
08-12-2010, 09:17 AM
detroit is a sports city

prove you can make money in a sports city, then your golden

same with boston



new york on the other hand is a Yankees city, but the sheer masses of people that live in NY make it viable to anything as long as you can get a piece of the pie

Detroit Red Wings one of the greatest teams there is in sports are having problems selling out games only getting about 17-18,000 fans including in the payoffs in a 20,000 seat stadium this and last year. Detroit Lions has been in like the bottom 3 for worst average attendence in NFL for like the last 7 years or more. Detroit Tigers well i dont know, there stadium looks often pretty empty but then its baseball and not many teams do fill the stadium on a reguler basis so not to sure. I think Pistons are the only ones really filling the stadium So i dont know if its the best example

Boston Red Sox and the New England Patriots always sell out. But Boston Bruins were getting some very low attendence for a good 5 years, some games as low as 11,000 fans a game and Celtics were getting 16-17,000 fans for years. It only recently since thse 2 teams started filling the stadium mainly cause Celtics won the championship and now this year Bruins have had a good team.

New England Patriots need to move to the city of proper Boston, with MLS growing New England is bringing the league down, it looks like shit seeing them play at Patriots stadium with only 12,000 fans in a 67,000 seat stadium.

jloome
08-14-2010, 12:26 PM
detroit is a sports city

prove you can make money in a sports city, then your golden

same with boston



new york on the other hand is a Yankees city, but the sheer masses of people that live in NY make it viable to anything as long as you can get a piece of the pie

Detroit has the worst economy of any major urban centre in North America and is predicated by 2015 to be about the size of Halifax. It's already apparently below 700,000 in actual population. It's a ghost town, urban-wise. The city was literally giving away houses last year WITH a cash bonus, on the condition you had to actually live in it for at least a year.

MLS is not going to Detroit. These are the same reasons the guy got the Silverdome for a half million.

In 10 years, if a new hub industry came in and their inner city urban blight were dealt with, maybe. But you don't take a pro franchise sport to a failing centre where the level of disposable income declines month over month.

(Now, the suburbs? DetroitTFC, might that be a different story?)

Keystone FC
08-15-2010, 12:43 AM
MLS is not going to Detroit. These are the same reasons the guy got the Silverdome for a half million.

I don't think MLS is going to Detroit, BUT I do think Detroit could go to MLS and possibly help out the situation in DC. I would hate for DCU to move but looking at their SSS situation in DC and if the Baltimore stadium falls through then Detroit could be a very tangible situation. They wouldn't even have to change the initials they would be called Detroit City United.

I think MLS is in a situation right now where they are almost out of cities to place clubs that are open to the game of soccer. Where Toronto was considered a 'risky' city for a club the city choices they have to choose from now would be considered chaotic to almost suicidal from a soccer market standpoint.
Are there big cities to place teams? Yes. Are there cities that could support a MLS club? Yes. But alot of these cities do not have the finances, owners, or willingness to approach MLS with a proposal. At least the Silverdome owners are trying to reach out to the MLS.

rocker
08-15-2010, 12:57 AM
I think if they want to move DC United beyond Baltimore or wherever, there are better markets for it than Detroit (Miami for example, which has a college football stadium they could use).

My thinking is the whole Detroit MLS thing will just be a chance for Garber to make it look like there's competition for the 20th expansion slot. Garber won't turn down anybody at this point.

DichioTFC
08-15-2010, 01:22 AM
Detroit has the worst economy of any major urban centre in North America and is predicated by 2015 to be about the size of Halifax. It's already apparently below 700,000 in actual population. It's a ghost town, urban-wise. The city was literally giving away houses last year WITH a cash bonus, on the condition you had to actually live in it for at least a year.

MLS is not going to Detroit. These are the same reasons the guy got the Silverdome for a half million.

In 10 years, if a new hub industry came in and their inner city urban blight were dealt with, maybe. But you don't take a pro franchise sport to a failing centre where the level of disposable income declines month over month.

(Now, the suburbs? DetroitTFC, might that be a different story?)

Worst economy in a major urban centre? True. Ghost town? Not true (lived in Midtown Detroit for 8 months, can attest to it being a very well populated area), but we'll run with this for argument's sake. Giveaway of land? True and epic fail, but with many other variables that affected it. But Detroit is still the 9th largest market in the United States (more than Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Seattle; comparable to Dallas, Boston, Washington DC). How is this possible with ~700K in population? Because the suburbs are huge (total of the local area is 5.35 million people, including Windsor it grows to 5.7M) and the area is filled with sports fans. Red Wings, Tigers and Lions dont market their product to the blue collar working poor in downtown or midtown Detroit, they market it to the those that live on the fringes like Southfield and St Clair Shores. Translating the example, it would the equivalent to marketing TFC to the 905, meaning that it would still be a profitable product.

The Silverdome is not in Detroit, its in Pontiac, a suburb of Detroit. Sure it's been hit by the economy, but its not nearly as rundown / scary as midtown Detroit. The reason the price was so cheap was not so much the lowered land value, but because it was an aging structure that had not been put to use and had no foreseeable future for its previous owner (Lions left for Ford Field and there's been no use for it since, with the exception of Monster Truck rallies).

Urban blight? Non-issue. New industry? Would be nice but not an issue that would prevent the MLS from moving to Michigan (suburbs have high employment, its just the city has high unemployment).

Detroit has Red Wings, Tigers, Lions; Ann Arbor (35 mi from Detroit) has the University of Michigan (which seats 110,000 regularly, and invested recently in a larger stadium); Auburn Hills (28 mi from Detroit, right beside Pontiac) has the Pistons; there are racetracks that get everything from NASCAR to Indy. And the mileage is not an issue in Michigan like it is in the GTA because EVERYTHING is connected by freeways (I live in Walled Lake and to go to school in Detroit its 33mi but only 25 mins). The per capita wealth of the suburbs is commonly in excess of $100K (which is comparable to Rosedale).

My point is basically, don't believe the hype. Yeah Detroit has an employment situation, but the total unemployment during the height of the recession was 13.7%... at the same time, Toronto's was 10%. Both numbers have dropped dramatically since then. Detroit is not Baghdad nor is it Zimbabwe.

The MLS would be stupid not to come to Detroit. The ownership is there, corporate support is there, the supporter groups are there, the stadium is there, rivals are there... everything is set. It really is just a matter of time.

Keystone FC
08-16-2010, 12:59 AM
The Silverdome is not in Detroit, its in Pontiac, a suburb of Detroit. Sure it's been hit by the economy, but its not nearly as rundown / scary as midtown Detroit. The reason the price was so cheap was not so much the lowered land value, but because it was an aging structure that had not been put to use and had no foreseeable future for its previous owner (Lions left for Ford Field and there's been no use for it since, with the exception of Monster Truck rallies).

This is the point that makes me think a MLS club in a regenerated Silverdome could actually work.
It's not attached to the burnt out buildings near the heart of Detroit, it's in the more subduded suburbs of Detroit.

Hustle
08-16-2010, 01:46 AM
Big write up on this Cat in Business Week. Dude has money to back him up. Only problem is he will have alot of pressure on him from the monster truck community.

Gravedigger Bitches!

Cashcleaner
08-16-2010, 05:22 AM
Worst economy in a major urban centre? True. Ghost town? Not true (lived in Midtown Detroit for 8 months, can attest to it being a very well populated area), but we'll run with this for argument's sake. Giveaway of land? True and epic fail, but with many other variables that affected it. But Detroit is still the 9th largest market in the United States (more than Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Seattle; comparable to Dallas, Boston, Washington DC). How is this possible with ~700K in population? Because the suburbs are huge (total of the local area is 5.35 million people, including Windsor it grows to 5.7M) and the area is filled with sports fans. Red Wings, Tigers and Lions dont market their product to the blue collar working poor in downtown or midtown Detroit, they market it to the those that live on the fringes like Southfield and St Clair Shores. Translating the example, it would the equivalent to marketing TFC to the 905, meaning that it would still be a profitable product.

The Silverdome is not in Detroit, its in Pontiac, a suburb of Detroit. Sure it's been hit by the economy, but its not nearly as rundown / scary as midtown Detroit. The reason the price was so cheap was not so much the lowered land value, but because it was an aging structure that had not been put to use and had no foreseeable future for its previous owner (Lions left for Ford Field and there's been no use for it since, with the exception of Monster Truck rallies).

Urban blight? Non-issue. New industry? Would be nice but not an issue that would prevent the MLS from moving to Michigan (suburbs have high employment, its just the city has high unemployment).

Detroit has Red Wings, Tigers, Lions; Ann Arbor (35 mi from Detroit) has the University of Michigan (which seats 110,000 regularly, and invested recently in a larger stadium); Auburn Hills (28 mi from Detroit, right beside Pontiac) has the Pistons; there are racetracks that get everything from NASCAR to Indy. And the mileage is not an issue in Michigan like it is in the GTA because EVERYTHING is connected by freeways (I live in Walled Lake and to go to school in Detroit its 33mi but only 25 mins). The per capita wealth of the suburbs is commonly in excess of $100K (which is comparable to Rosedale).

My point is basically, don't believe the hype. Yeah Detroit has an employment situation, but the total unemployment during the height of the recession was 13.7%... at the same time, Toronto's was 10%. Both numbers have dropped dramatically since then. Detroit is not Baghdad nor is it Zimbabwe.

The MLS would be stupid not to come to Detroit. The ownership is there, corporate support is there, the supporter groups are there, the stadium is there, rivals are there... everything is set. It really is just a matter of time.

A few good points, but let's remember that it's unlikely that Detroit will be uncontested in the next round of expansion.

Look at other contenders such as Miami or St. Louis. Don't they seem to be just as strong - if not stronger than Detroit as viable MLS markets? If Detroit were to put a bid forward by itself, your points would all have some validity. However, as there will likely be other candidate cities involved, you have to make the necessary comparisons. Is Detroit really that great a market compared to the two aforementioned cities? For that matter, what about Phoenix, Atlanta, or a second New York club? I have my doubts.

rocker
08-16-2010, 09:28 AM
I'd put a club in New York city proper before I'd ever consider Detroit.

Redcoe15
08-16-2010, 09:30 AM
A few good points, but let's remember that it's unlikely that Detroit will be uncontested in the next round of expansion.

Look at other contenders such as Miami or St. Louis. Don't they seem to be just as strong - if not stronger than Detroit as viable MLS markets? If Detroit were to put a bid forward by itself, your points would all have some validity. However, as there will likely be other candidate cities involved, you have to make the necessary comparisons. Is Detroit really that great a market compared to the two aforementioned cities? For that matter, what about Phoenix, Atlanta, or a second New York club? I have my doubts.
Right now the ony other contender is the second New York bid. But there are some landminds out there that could easily blow up. Not the least of which is Paul Kemsley, the guy who bought the naming rights to the Cosmos so that he can gain an MLS team, has some very shady business dealings in the past that might make anyone hesitate to give him a look.

Miami hasn't had a seriously bid since the Fusion folded. There was the whole FC Barcelona/Marcelo Claure proposal from a couple years back, but that blew up when Barca pulled its support due to cold feet. St. Louis is dead in the water thanks to Jeff Cooper shatting the bed over the way his DII team AC St. Louis was financially structured. There's doubts about that club playing next year.

Atlanta talks about Arthur Blank, but nobody knows just how serious he is about MLS. He's more concerned about a new stadium for his Falcons to play in. Phoenix? Who?

Don Garber has recently talked about going upwards to 24 teams. With that in mind, and the field as stands, Detroit has just as good a shot at landing an MLS team as anybody.

Macksam
08-16-2010, 10:55 AM
Detroit has the worst economy of any major urban centre in North America and is predicated by 2015 to be about the size of Halifax. It's already apparently below 700,000 in actual population. It's a ghost town, urban-wise. The city was literally giving away houses last year WITH a cash bonus, on the condition you had to actually live in it for at least a year.

MLS is not going to Detroit. These are the same reasons the guy got the Silverdome for a half million.

In 10 years, if a new hub industry came in and their inner city urban blight were dealt with, maybe. But you don't take a pro franchise sport to a failing centre where the level of disposable income declines month over month.

(Now, the suburbs? DetroitTFC, might that be a different story?)

The American auto indsutry is rebounding and picking up again. With that in mind, Detroit is also rebounding and picking up again.

rocker
08-16-2010, 11:34 AM
I still think St. Louis a great market for MLS. The problem with St. Louis was the owner not the city. They even had a stadium lined up in a neighbouring county that wanted to put it in a mixed use development. Everything was there but the owner was not wealthy enough.

Redcoe15
08-16-2010, 01:38 PM
I still think St. Louis a great market for MLS. The problem with St. Louis was the owner not the city. They even had a stadium lined up in a neighbouring county that wanted to put it in a mixed use development. Everything was there but the owner was not wealthy enough.
Won't disagree with you there. St. Louis, with it's deep history and soccer background, would be perfect for MLS. It's like another Canadian team in the NHL.

The problem is that Jeff Cooper was the only person in that area pushing to bring a team to St. Louis. He had a deal all worked out for a new 18,500 seat SSS to be built in nearby Collinsville, Illinois. With all that, he couldn't even get investors in the area to support him on the bid. Not even having Albert Pujols in his corner could help.

In the end, Cooper helped create the DII NASL, with disgruntled teams from the USL-1, and created AC St. Louis. But he had financial benefactors from England who bailed out on his team and his fellow owners not even realizing that. He's kept the team afloat for now, but who knows what will happen after this year. And his fellow NASL members consider him mud. With all that, how does Don Garber and MLS look to St. Louis if Cooper is the only front man for a team?

I think, as far as the U.S. Midwest is concerned, Detroit has moved ahead of St. Louis as the number one candidate in that region.

james
08-17-2010, 12:08 PM
St.Louis is quite a dangerous city and strugling city tho to, much like Detroit. St.Louis actually has the 2nd highest murder rate in USA only behind New Orleans. And other crimes are just as high as Detroits crime rate. St.Louis 40 years ago had a population of close to 800,000, today its population is 354,000. Detroit 40 years ago had about 1.6million people living there and today its around 900,000. St.Louis houses cost 50% lower then the average house in the USA....as you see, these cities seem very similar. Niether one seems to be doing to great really.

rocker
08-17-2010, 12:40 PM
St.Louis is quite a dangerous city and strugling city tho to, much like Detroit. St.Louis actually has the 2nd highest murder rate in USA only behind New Orleans. And other crimes are just as high as Detroits crime rate. St.Louis 40 years ago had a population of close to 800,000, today its population is 354,000. Detroit 40 years ago had about 1.6million people living there and today its around 900,000. St.Louis houses cost 50% lower then the average house in the USA....as you see, these cities seem very similar. Niether one seems to be doing to great really.

well, if housing costs and crime rates determine the best expansion cities in MLS, then Garber should probably stop expanding now. Many of the expansion locations he's mentioned have seen massive housing price drops (Florida, for example) and have high crime rates (Miami, Atlanta).

DC has a very high crime rate.... particularly for murder. Same with Kansas City. Philly has a very high total crime rate, and MLS let them go stick a stadium in a county that recently had a curfew due to murders.

The economic thing is certainly an issue, but the USA isn't exactly thriving economically anywhere.
St. Louis has been a hotbed for the sport though.

I think now we don't really have any more great expansion locations, where everything is in looking good. A case could probably be made for a lot of cities, including Detroit.

james
08-17-2010, 12:48 PM
well, if housing costs and crime rates determine the best expansion cities in MLS, then Garber should probably stop expanding now. Many of the expansion locations he's mentioned have seen massive housing price drops (Florida, for example) and have high crime rates (Miami, Atlanta).

DC has a very high crime rate.... particularly for murder. Same with Kansas City. Philly has a very high total crime rate, and MLS let them go stick a stadium in a county that recently had a curfew due to murders.

The economic thing is certainly an issue, but the USA isn't exactly thriving economically anywhere.
St. Louis has been a hotbed for the sport though.

I think now we don't really have any more great expansion locations, where everything is in looking good. A case could probably be made for a lot of cities, including Detroit.

i know crime and that doesnt determine if the city can support a team or not, but the reason i posted that was because everyone says how bad Detroit is with crime and cheap housing and economy and how people are packing up and leaving the city and how St.Louis is a much better choice and yet really St.Louis seems to be just as bad as Detroit is in those categories.

But in fact you never know, maybe a team playing in a rough part of town is good for MLS, might keep away all those teams with just soccer moms and kids...maybe they will get real supporters.

Detroit_TFC
08-17-2010, 03:14 PM
The main drawback with the Silverdome in terms of location (the building issues aside) is that it is so far north of the metro area. Great for the northern suburbs, which are the most affluent and therefore a key area but far away from the western suburbs including Dearborn, which is packed with soccer-loving Iraqis and Palestinians. Detroit has a growing Mexican community, they are also key. The sod from the ACM game moved from the SD to a park on the heavily Mexican southwest side.

The next big soccer event at SD will probably be a retooled Green Soccer Bowl in 2011, this time with a legit promoter and likely to include some Middle Eastern national sides. If we could get Mexico v Egypt, the dome could sell 60K, no question. Would any of that translate to support for an MLS team? Probably not unless there was a particular player who was a draw, a la Blanco in Chicago. But it would demonstrate the potential.