Victoria, Ottawa, Hamilton to bid to join NASL by 2013

[Yohan]

As reported by Ives

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/07/canada-corner-tfc-warns-arena-canadian-expansion-and-more.html

7 teams by 2013... Voyageur Cup going to be a serious tourney

[Keystone FC]

WHOA!!!!!
Victoria and Ottawa currently sport PDL teams and are targeting entry into the USSF-2 between 2012 and 2013.

Victoria, Hamilton and Ottawa would potentially join Toronto FC, Vancouver and the Montreal Impact, who will be in MLS by 2012. Add in FC Edmonton, who begins play in 2011, and it brings the total to seven professional teams in Canada by 2013.

Not to mention that the possiblity of adding either PDL or CSL clubs to the V Cup as well could tip the tourney even more.

[james]

that would be good for canada.....i wonder if anyone would really support Hamilton tho being so close to Toronto with Hamilton being the lower division and all.

[Huyton]

Part of the problem will be for a team with crowds of 1-2,000 being able to support cross-country road trips.

Otherwise, I don't see an issue. I have seasons tickets to Milltown FC and two ransom packs to TFC.

I know of quite a few people who support two teams (or more). I have an uncle who supported Manchester City, but his true love was for Stalybridge Celtic.

As long as the lower division clubs try to make sure that their schedules don't conflict with the nearby "big" club, then it should be OK.

For instance, the only conflict I'll have with Milltown FC is a game on August 28th, where Milltown is having a doubleheader: Reserves at 1pm, 1'st team at 4pm, and then TFC at 7pm. However, if the traffic is OK, then I should be able to make it to BMO in time. I suspect that the biggest problem will be that the Ex will be on.

[james]

Just wonderring how many people go to watch Milltown play?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Canadian expansion is great but I don't want it to outgrow the demand and give the haters room to hate. With Vancouver joining the league I think it will give the rivalry a shot in the arm. I'm very curious to see what Victoria would be like with a relatively new team in MLS just across the river. I like the fact there will be a true supporters question brewing there.

Not many have room to really support two teams full time and there will arguments for supporting the NASL highlanders v the "promoted" whitecaps.

How many do we think come from HAmilton for TFC? And of those how many would choose the lower level NASL (not that much lower) for civic pride and convenience?
Both of these scenarios will bring in questions of "switching teams" to support.

All part of the ever changing and fast growing sport in this country...

[TFCRegina]

Canadian expansion is great but I don't want it to outgrow the demand and give the haters room to hate. With Vancouver joining the league I think it will give the rivalry a shot in the arm. I'm very curious to see what Victoria would be like with a relatively new team in MLS just across the river. I like the fact there will be a true supporters question brewing there.

Not many have room to really support two teams full time and there will arguments for supporting the NASL highlanders v the "promoted" whitecaps.

How many do we think come from HAmilton for TFC? And of those how many would choose the lower level NASL (not that much lower) for civic pride and convenience?
Both of these scenarios will bring in questions of "switching teams" to support.

All part of the ever changing and fast growing sport in this country...

Yeah, I think after they fill out Ottawa, Hamilton, Edmonton and Victoria, expansion needs to stop for a bit. The teams need to build up their support bases. It's all nice and well to expand quickly but when a league (NASL in this case) grows that quickly, it's good for nobody. It seriously damages the credibility of the league.

On the plus side, these NASL squads will have more Canadians (probably local ones at that) in them, which is good for the game in our country. It will help fill out the mid-level of our soccer pyramid.

We're still missing that link from amateur to professional though. CSL will be too small to provide the number of players that will be needed, unless it expands with a few more teams next year.

We need a semi-professional link in the lower middle part of that pyramid.

[Shway]

^1+ Agreed

I also believe that the CSA needs to be HEAVILY involved in making sure that things are done right, investing time/money into these clubs because they will definately increase our countrys national football. They need to act as how the MLS does for pansion.

[sidvan]

Just wonderring how many people go to watch Milltown play?
All the games i have been to have had decent attendance (300-400)

[SilverSamurai]

With the additional smaller teams, they're going to need to revamp the tourney.
Perhaps they can add a qualifiers leg for say the winners of the CSL/PDL leagues play each other with the winner getting a shot to compete against the Big 3. (never thought I'd say that!) lol

IMO though, they really need/should add a team out on the east coast.

[Mark in Ottawa]

And Ottawa still doesn't have a stadium to play in....

[ManUtd4ever]

If a CSL club can be included, an 8 team Canadian Championship Tournament by 2013 would be sweet!

[Macksam]

Logical choice for number 8, Calgary.

[C.Ronaldo]

Mississauga needs a true CSL team, then it can move up to a NASL team

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Regina was rumoured as another possible NASL candidate, though I have my doubt about that market. For that matter, I haven't been traditionally confident about the western Canadian markets between Alberta and Manitoba - I perceive that region as being a CFL stronghold and a soccer graveyard.

Of course, times change and so do the demographics of the various regions across Canada. FC Edmonton will be an excellent litmus test for the support of soccer in this country. If Edmonton can support an NASL team, then I don't see why we can't have seven or more financially viable pro teams in Canada.

[TFCRegina]

Soccer only succeeds on the Prairies if you kill the Eastern CFL teams.

[James17930]

Moncton? They have that new stadium there now . . . they'd have the whole Maritime market (which is only, like, as big as Scarborough population wise, but still)

[Azerban]

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2010/07/canada-corner-tfc-warns-arena-canadian-expansion-and-more.html

has this link worked for anyone i've tried it 3 seperate places and get a blank ol'screen

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Moncton? They have that new stadium there now . . . they'd have the whole Maritime market (which is only, like, as big as Scarborough population wise, but still)

Interestingly enough, the new stadium in Moncton has a natural grass pitch. At 10k seats, this stadium is the third largest of its kind in Canada, after BMO Field and Saputo Stadium.

[Yohan]

has this link worked for anyone i've tried it 3 seperate places and get a blank ol'screen
hrm. i can't find the article anymore

[James17930]

Interestingly enough, the new stadium in Moncton has a natural grass pitch. At 10k seats, this stadium is the third largest of its kind in Canada, after BMO Field and Saputo Stadium.

Perfect :D

[KezmanCCCC]

WHOA!!!!!
Victoria and Ottawa currently sport PDL teams and are targeting entry into the USSF-2 between 2012 and 2013.


The USSF-2 is only around for this year... it will be turned over to the NASL for next season...

i think these people in canada should be slowing down with all this creating soccer clubs... there is a big market for soccer in canada but its really only is the major cities like Toronto, Vancouver and montreal.. with scattered markets else where... i dont think this country can support so many clubs....

[Macksam]

The USSF-2 is only around for this year... it will be turned over to the NASL for next season...

i think these people in canada should be slowing down with all this creating soccer clubs... there is a big market for soccer in canada but its really only is the major cities like Toronto, Vancouver and montreal.. with scattered markets else where... i dont think this country can support so many clubs....
I'm trying to understand this body of text. Are you saying no city besides these three markets should try things out with a NASL team or are you saying that we should limit the Canadian expansion of NASL teams?

[Keystone FC]

The USSF-2 is only around for this year... it will be turned over to the NASL for next season...

i think these people in canada should be slowing down with all this creating soccer clubs... there is a big market for soccer in canada but its really only is the major cities like Toronto, Vancouver and montreal.. with scattered markets else where... i dont think this country can support so many clubs....
Actually, no one really knows what it's going to be turned into. InsideMinnesotaSoccer is saying that there will be a meeting of all NASL/USL clubs within the next few weeks and the USSF will hand down the criteria for what a club must have in order to obtain Div. II status. Weather it's called NASL, NUSL, FUSL no one really knows.

As for people calling for a CNSL alot seems to be coming from Americans who resent Canada 'piggybacking' the MLS and USL system.

[Keystone FC]

Soccer only succeeds on the Prairies if you kill the Eastern CFL teams.
Why would this need to happen?

[torfchamilton]

The more Canadian teams the better even if it's at the NASL level. I live in the Hamilton area and would support Hamilton as well. It would be good for the game in Canada. The only problem I see with Hamilton is the venue. If the City and the Ticats figure out where the stadium is going, 25K will be to big for soccer. Secondly, I couldn't stand to watch any more games on turf especially if they have the nasty football lines.

I was a player in the OLD CSL with the Hamilton Steelers. The league had big time dreams with small time owners. If you are able to get solid ownership in the other cities vying for the NASL, it could work. I think our sport has turned the corner and people in this city would support this franchise in the NASL but with a proper venue. Perhaps in 15-20 years we would have a true promotion relegation system and would give Hamilton a chance in the big leagues. I know PRO/REL is a contentious subject especially with Americans and secondly with owners who have antied up a fee to join MLS, but that is another thing that makes the game unique and interesting

[LittleOzzy]

That is way too many games tfcmanu.

I would much prefer seeing a two stage tournament where one team moves up to play the big 3 of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Victoria, Ottawa, Hamilton and Edmonton all play home and away and the top team moves up to play in the NCC. Either that or the bottom team after the first year moves down to the first stage even if it's if one of the big 3.

[ccopela]

That is way too many games tfcmanu.

I would much prefer seeing a two stage tournament where one team moves up to play the big 3 of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Victoria, Ottawa, Hamilton and Edmonton all play home and away and the top team moves up to play in the NCC. Either that or the bottom team after the first year moves down to the first stage even if it's if one of the big 3.

That would be a cool way of making a semi promotion/relegation system. And somewhat possible. It's not like anyones paying an expansion fee to get into the NCC so their shouldn't be complaints from the MLS clubs. Of course this all hinges on that many teams actually existing.

[drewski]

Couple of news items that might affect the viability of these bids

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/08/25-percent-dilemma.html


If the rumblings coming from the meeting are to be believed there could be a requirement that the new D2 league have no more than 25 per cent of its teams located outside the United States. That number matches the current ratio of three teams in a league of 12.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2010/08/09/us-soccer-starts-d2-meeting-with-tough-standards/


Another standard will be soccer specific stadiums. The new standard will require all teams in D2 to be playing in SSS’s within 5 years.

Since the Hamilton and Ottawa franchsises were pretty much planned to play out of their CFL brothers (in the sense their owners also own CFL teams) stadiums bids, this requirement would probably keep them from putting in a bid.

and

http://www.thespec.com/article/816833


But in light of all the squabbling between the Cats and city over where the 2015 Pan Am Games stadium should be built, it certainly wouldn't be appropriate to call Hamilton's proposed soccer team 'United'. Young will back out of the pro soccer bid if the city chooses the west harbour site for the stadium rather than one he prefers on the east Mountain.


That decision will be made by a city council vote Aug. 10. < today


and while it could just be a negotiating tactic, he withdrew from the stadium yesterday

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=330045


Young issued a letter to Hamilton mayor Fred Eisenberger and members of city council Monday, saying he was withdrawing his support of a proposed stadium project. The move leaves the CFL club with no place to play after its lease at aging Ivor Wynne Stadium runs out in 2011.

[Azerban]

If the rumblings coming from the meeting are to be believed there could be a requirement that the new D2 league have no more than 25 per cent of its teams located outside the United States. That number matches the current ratio of three teams in a league of 12.

yeah, what the USSF D2 needs is less teams and exposure. how pathetically xenophobic.

[James17930]

yeah, what the USSF D2 needs is less teams and exposure. how pathetically xenophobic.

Well -- it would give the CSA the kick in the ass it needs to get a full-fledged Canadian D2 up and running.

[Redcoe15]

Well -- it would give the CSA the kick in the ass it needs to get a full-fledged Canadian D2 up and running.
The CSA is too numb all over to even feel their asses being kicked.

[james]

Regina was rumoured as another possible NASL candidate, though I have my doubt about that market. For that matter, I haven't been traditionally confident about the western Canadian markets between Alberta and Manitoba - I perceive that region as being a CFL stronghold and a soccer graveyard.

Of course, times change and so do the demographics of the various regions across Canada. FC Edmonton will be an excellent litmus test for the support of soccer in this country. If Edmonton can support an NASL team, then I don't see why we can't have seven or more financially viable pro teams in Canada.

i feal the same way as you. My reason for Regina or Saskatoon is its a CFL and WHL (western Hockey League) province. And with Regina having a population of only 179,000 and saskatoon 202,000 i dont think they have the population or the demand to support a Soccer team.

As for cities like Calgary and Edmonton i say similar, they are cities with just under 1 million people but they both have a CFL and NHL team to already support. And Winnipeg has a CFL team, These Western Provinces just seem to love there CFL and Hockey teams and the cities arent quite big enough to have room or demand to support another sports team at the moment.

I also say no one ever really seems to think about Quebec City. But its a city of over 600,000 and yet it has no NHL or CFL team to support (similar size cities like Winnipeg and Hamilton and even smaller Regina support a CFL team). So maybe soccer would boom for Quebec City they dont seem to really got much to support right now, and soccer does seem to be quite big in Quebec much like ontario.

Also to always consider when trying to get a soccer team is population, heres a look at the 15 biggest Urban Cities in Canada: (big cities like Mississauga and Brampton next to major cities like Toronto come under Toronto Urban)

1.Toronto -2.5million Urban Pop- 4.7million
2.Montreal - 1.6million Urban Pop- 3.3million
3.Vancouver- 578,000 Urban Pop- 1.9million
4.Calgary 988,000 Urban Pop- 988,000
5.Edmonton 730,000 Urban Pop-862,544
6.Ottawa 812,129 Urabn Pop- 860,928
7.Quebec City 491,000 Urban Pop-659,483
8.Hamilton 504,000 Urban POP-647,634
9.Winnipeg 633,451 Urban POP-641,483
10.Kitchener 204,688 Urban POP- 422,514
11.London 352,395 Urban POP- 353,069
12.St.Catherines 131,989 Urban Pop - 308,596
13.Victoria 78,000 Urban POP - 304,683
14.Halifax 119,292 Urban POP- 282,924
15.Windsor 216,413 Urban Pop - 278,765

[Macksam]

As for cities like Calgary and Edmonton i say similar, they are cities with just under 1 million people but they both have a CFL and NHL team to already support. And Winnipeg has a CFL team, These Western Provinces just seem to love there CFL and Hockey teams and the cities arent quite big enough to have room or demand to support another sports team at the moment.


MLS would be a little risky, but NASL teams can definately be supported in Edmonton and Calgary.