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View Full Version : Why can't GO do this for TFC?



Oldtimer
07-13-2010, 06:37 AM
Since 2007, we've had to struggle with terrible train times, that often means people arriving late for the game, some people leave early, if you don't leave early, you have to wait nearly an hour for the train.

Imagine my surprise when I read this email from GO:


This year the Honda Indy comes to town from July 16th to the 18th providing 3 days of on-track and off-track activities with the final race being held on July 18th.
For race fans attending the event on July 18th, GO Transit will operate an additional train from Oshawa, arriving Exhibition GO Station at 11:16 as well as an additional trip from Aldershot to Union that will arrive Exhibition at 11:30 and Union at 11:40.
We will also operate an additional train trip from Exhibition Station on both our East and West rail lines to help you get home after the race has been completed.
For details please visit our What's New page at www.gotransit.com or click on the link
http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/news/whatsnew.aspx

So... how come the many thousands who come by GO to TFC matches can't get this kind of service?

rocker
07-13-2010, 07:00 AM
Isn't GO planning more service once the third rails (westbound lakeshore) are completely done? I thought they were gonna do every half an hour service at some point.

Oldtimer
07-13-2010, 07:28 AM
You're thinking of rush-hour service.

Right now, the number of rails only restricts rush-hour service. They can do 2 runs an hour without clogging the tracks. They would like to do more during rush-hour. That has no relevance to trains for TFC games.

So, if GO can put on an extra train for a race, why can't they do it for TFC? It's like footie fans in Toronto are always second-class, behind every other sport.

Joe Kool
07-13-2010, 07:39 AM
As far as I remember from when I used to attend the race they used to announce 25,000 people attending per day so not really any different as far as crowd size so they can't say that it is because of a bigger crowd either.

CoachGT
07-13-2010, 07:42 AM
So... how come the many thousands who come by GO to TFC matches can't get this kind of service?

Race fans are not considered hooligans..............:rolleyes:

nfitz
07-13-2010, 07:46 AM
Isn't GO planning more service once the third rails (westbound lakeshore) are completely done? I thought they were gonna do every half an hour service at some point.Yes. The third rail in the east has been completed, and in the west in Mississauga should be just about complete now.

But GO has been talking about this since the 1960s, with serious promises of increased off-peak service since the 1970s.

I expect with the recent provincial budget cuts for transit, that this might be delayed again.

Hitcho
07-13-2010, 08:27 AM
Since 2007, we've had to struggle with terrible train times, that often means people arriving late for the game, some people leave early, if you don't leave early, you have to wait nearly an hour for the train.

Imagine my surprise when I read this email from GO:



So... how come the many thousands who come by GO to TFC matches can't get this kind of service?

This is an excellent point, and good spot OT. I had heard that GO was not able to put on extra trains because CN controlled the tracks and timetables and GO was stuck with it, but this makes it clear that's a load of crap.

If we want some real push behind this then we need MLSE on board. I suspect that neither they nor GO will be interested because if they put on extra trains for TFC then all the Leafs and Raptors fans will demand the same, not to mention Jays fans and Argos fans. However, TFC is in a different category for me because of it's location - there's no subway alternative and it's not based out of Union station which as the central hub of the city's transit system offers plenty of options to all the other fans.

GO put on extra trains for the Ex as well come to think of it, or at least have extra trains stopping at Exhibition instead of ploughing straight through. So why the fuck can't they at least have an extra stop made by TWO trains on match days, one for kick off and one for departure? I think we'd have more success with that argument than demanding extra trains which would probably require a much bigger shift in timetables and resources than simply making an extra stop.

mlsintoronto - time to fight for your fans and take on the might of GO Transit buddy! :D:D:D

Seen
07-13-2010, 08:35 AM
It was a long time ago, and my memory may be a little foggy, but when the Jays played at the Ex, didn't GO have trains waiting at the Ex for Jays fans when the game ended?

rocker
07-13-2010, 08:41 AM
It was a long time ago, and my memory may be a little foggy, but when the Jays played at the Ex, didn't GO have trains waiting at the Ex for Jays fans when the game ended?

something like that. I was a teen during the 92/93 world series phenomena, and there were special trains after the games. Of course they had something like 50000+ per game back then. What a crazy time... ohhhhh the memories....

deltox
07-13-2010, 08:44 AM
the GO is the reason for people coming late and leaving early.

and if you stay til the end, you have to wait for an hr to get the east bound train. basically for me to go to a game, im out of my house for about 7 hrs. i could save 2 hrs with better GO service.

now...it could better if the games started 30 mins after the hr.

Bloor West FC
07-13-2010, 09:21 AM
Why hate on GO. Why not ask MLS to move the games to fit with there schedule?

sulfur
07-13-2010, 09:24 AM
Why hate on GO. Why not ask MLS to move the games to fit with there schedule?
TV. Can't be done.

dow117
07-13-2010, 09:24 AM
There is no train service from the North ( Newmarkt, Barrie etc ) at all on the weekends. It must be the only city that I have seen that does not cater to "events" in the city. Piss poor !!!

Fort York Redcoat
07-13-2010, 09:24 AM
Not everyone uses GO. But GO benefits from the matches.

They should show the initiative.

dow117
07-13-2010, 09:27 AM
"If we want some real push behind this then we need MLSE on board. I suspect that neither they nor GO will be interested because if they put on extra trains for TFC then all the Leafs and Raptors fans will demand the same, not to mention Jays fans and Argos fans"


Your argument reminds me of a cafeteria worker who said " Christ !!, they're eating these as fast as we make them !!"

Isn't that the friggin point ????

Carts
07-13-2010, 09:36 AM
Back in the days of the Blue Jays at Exhibition Stadium, GO service was awesome...

The Eastbound Train would leave exactly 30-mins from the final out - they'd even announce it in the post-game announcements...

It truly is a shame that GO doesn't work more cohesively with events in Toronto...

It appears they're doing it for the Indy, which is odd that they then don't do it for TFC...

Is it possible that Indy organizers are paying GO transit a fee for the extra service...???

Carts...

drexel10
07-13-2010, 09:40 AM
Back in the days of the Blue Jays at Exhibition Stadium, GO service was awesome...

The Eastbound Train would leave exactly 30-mins from the final out - they'd even announce it in the post-game announcements...

It truly is a shame that GO doesn't work more cohesively with events in Toronto...

It appears they're doing it for the Indy, which is odd that they then don't do it for TFC...

Is it possible that Indy organizers are paying GO transit a fee for the extra service...???

Carts...

That is pretty amazing when you think about it. Baseball is very unpredictable with how long it takes to play, whereas here they are basically 10-15 minutes off/too early for the westbound train and about 5-10 for the eastbound train. I haven't been able to understand this, because it is quite obvious that people have been leaving in the last 10 minutes to catch their train!!!!!!!!

Beach_Red
07-13-2010, 09:42 AM
This is an excellent point, and good spot OT. I had heard that GO was not able to put on extra trains because CN controlled the tracks and timetables and GO was stuck with it, but this makes it clear that's a load of crap.




It's really amazing how often we're given these bullshit excuses for everything - remember the crap reasons why we couldn't have grass?

James17930
07-13-2010, 09:53 AM
The OP has an excellent point, but:

has anyone called GO and asked them? TFC fans have been pretty good with rallying to get other things done -- maybe we need a campaign to get GO to change their service.

We can talk all we want about 'them taking the initiative', but of course that's not how these things work -- if there are no complaints they just assume there's no problem.

Start sending the e-mails, start getting reporters to ask the pertinent questions etc etc.

nfitz
07-13-2010, 09:55 AM
There is no train service from the North ( Newmarkt, Barrie etc ) at all on the weekends. It must be the only city that I have seen that does not cater to "events" in the city. Piss poor !!!Neither Montreal nor Vancouver run extra commuter trains for sports events downtown. I can't think of any other city in the country doing this.

GO has said they would expand to 2 trains an hour on all existing routes off-peak by the end of their 10-year plan. (http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/docs/publications/Strategic_Plan_GO_2020_lowres.pdf) Though given how anti-transit the PC party are, this could all change if they get elected next year.

Derko
07-13-2010, 09:55 AM
There is no train service from the North ( Newmarkt, Barrie etc ) at all on the weekends. It must be the only city that I have seen that does not cater to "events" in the city. Piss poor !!!
I come down from Orangeville, and have to drive to Port Credit to get the GO train, or take the Bus from Brampton to either Union or Yorkdale, the rail service to Toronto from the north is horrible and a disgrace, Brampton has the line to Union, and I would gladly hope the train or streetcar to BMO, something must be done. If we use the 'Green' argument, it is the only way something will be done, because 'Green' is the flavour of the decade, if we dont use that argument, fuck all will get done!!!
MLSE has clout get us the fucking service we deserve.

shaggingscot
07-13-2010, 10:25 AM
I come down from Orangeville, and have to drive to Port Credit to get the GO train, or take the Bus from Brampton to either Union or Yorkdale, the rail service to Toronto from the north is horrible and a disgrace, Brampton has the line to Union, and I would gladly hope the train or streetcar to BMO, something must be done. If we use the 'Green' argument, it is the only way something will be done, because 'Green' is the flavour of the decade, if we dont use that argument, fuck all will get done!!!
MLSE has clout get us the fucking service we deserve.

I feel your pain. I usually drive right down Trafalgar from Hillsburgh and catch the Oakville train in. If the Georgetwon line ran on weekends it would be great!

jabbronies
07-13-2010, 10:40 AM
Why hate on GO. Why not ask MLS to move the games to fit with there schedule?


TV. Can't be done.

Don't believe this. Before the season starts, they can totally make this happen. TV, at least for TFC, doesn't come into play until after the schedule is made.

sulfur
07-13-2010, 11:25 AM
Don't believe this. Before the season starts, they can totally make this happen. TV, at least for TFC, doesn't come into play until after the schedule is made.
Certain TV is set. Thursday night games (for example) have to start at a certain time for ESPN. Certain other games during the season have set times that cannot easily be changed for TV (like during the hockey playoffs when CBC holds the rights, since the rights are generally determined well in advance of the NHL's playoff schedule even coming close to being decided).

The rest? Sure, those can be changed without too much difficulty. Before the season starts.

nfitz
07-13-2010, 11:44 AM
Don't believe this. Before the season starts, they can totally make this happen. TV, at least for TFC, doesn't come into play until after the schedule is made.Don't believe this. Our start times are primarily controlled by TV. Look at all the changes we've seen this season ... all a function of TV.

sulfur
07-13-2010, 01:13 PM
The other thing you have to remember (when it comes to TV) is that TV companies dislike starting sporting events on the half-hour unless it is going to finish on the hour.

james
07-13-2010, 01:27 PM
i must say Toronto has horrible transit. I know we arent in Europe but once you do go there and travel there transit routes its makes it seem rediculous that the west and east bound rails only goes to Union once an hour when you consider the millions of people who live East and West of the city. I was about 3 hours North West of London before and had to get a train to London....they had a train every 15 mins to London and thats 3 hours away in a small town of like 50,000 people yet say Oakville a city of 170,000 and half an hour away and yet a train comes once a hour. Makes you wounder how we could be that far behind some other places in the world. This may not be London but come on its the biggest city in Canada and has a metro population of 5 million which is pretty dam big.

Also is stupid they cant add a single extra train for big sporting events such as Blue Jay game, Leaf games and TFC exc.

JonO
07-13-2010, 01:30 PM
^ Try going north of the city - service is pretty much non-existant... (and they wonder about traffic on the DVP)

DichioTFC
07-13-2010, 01:31 PM
Has the team and / or mlsintoronto said anything in the past about coordinating with GO?

nfitz
07-13-2010, 01:38 PM
i must say Toronto has horrible transit.I keep hearing Torontonians spout this stuff. And while there are cities in Europe that may have better transit (though you wouldn't believe it if you read a local discussion forum over there, about how bad their transit is), it's hard to find anywhere in Canada with better transit. This isn't Europe; it's only in recent decades that we've been approaching the densities that make this kind of service reasonable.

Even in the USA, transit is often horrible. Major cities such as Washington have suprisingly infrequent off-peak subway service. Even in Manhattan you can have a 20-minute scheduled wait for a subway train at midnight; and their bus frequencies are a long-standing issue.

GO service could be more frequent; but they are spending $billions to upgrade it over the next few years.

Oldtimer
07-13-2010, 01:45 PM
it's hard to find anywhere in Canada with better transit.

Obviously you've never lived in Vancouver or Montreal.

If you're comparing Toronto to North Bay or Moose Jaw, you may have a point.

nfitz
07-13-2010, 01:57 PM
Obviously you've never lived in Vancouver or Montreal.Actually I used to live in Montreal, and still have a lot of family there. Metro trains are not as frequent as subway trains here, especially off-peak. And the bus frequencies were never great to begin with, and have deterioated significantly in the last couple of decades. Commuter trains there are much less frequent with only a handful of Sunday trains on either of the lines they bother with any weekend service (schedule on the Dorion line looks almost identical to what it was when I used to take it to work 20 years ago).

And while I haven't lived in Vancouver, my father and some siblings are there. I used their system a lot earlier this year, and in some ways it is impressive, I never got the sense it was better than Toronto. Canada Line is interesting, but the service was not as frequent as I'd expect. I was surprised how long I had to wait for a 99-B bus, given how packed they are. And their commuter train service is dreadful with only rush-hour weekday service.

I do not understand this belief that people seem to get that transit is so much better anywhere else than Toronto ... it's kind of one of those strange conspiracy theory things that has little basis in truth, but some people seem to grasp onto.


If you're comparing Toronto to North Bay or Moose Jaw, you may have a point.The two examples I was particularily thinking of were Montreal and Vancouver. Service in Montreal is worse, and while in some ways Vancouver is comparable, it certainly is very poor for commuter trains, which is the primary topic at hand here.

james
07-13-2010, 02:00 PM
I keep hearing Torontonians spout this stuff. And while there are cities in Europe that may have better transit (though you wouldn't believe it if you read a local discussion forum over there, about how bad their transit is), it's hard to find anywhere in Canada with better transit. This isn't Europe; it's only in recent decades that we've been approaching the densities that make this kind of service reasonable.

Even in the USA, transit is often horrible. Major cities such as Washington have suprisingly infrequent off-peak subway service. Even in Manhattan you can have a 20-minute scheduled wait for a subway train at midnight; and their bus frequencies are a long-standing issue.

GO service could be more frequent; but they are spending $billions to upgrade it over the next few years.

someone told me tho that certain main subway lines in NYC go 24/7 all through the night, which i havent been to any city that has subways that run all day and night. That said im sure its just the odd train here and there at hours between 2am-6am. But still thats pretty good service.

manic.street.preacher
07-13-2010, 02:03 PM
I keep hearing Torontonians spout this stuff. And while there are cities in Europe that may have better transit (though you wouldn't believe it if you read a local discussion forum over there, about how bad their transit is), it's hard to find anywhere in Canada with better transit. This isn't Europe; it's only in recent decades that we've been approaching the densities that make this kind of service reasonable.

too true, every citizen in every city truly believes that their transit system is abysmal ... and unless you live in a rather small city, you'll find most of these claims are exaggerated ... but like DichioTFC pointed out, has the team or anyone asked about coordinating something with GO?



If you're comparing Toronto to North Bay or Moose Jaw, you may have a point.

Moose Jaw only has two bus routes, but they try to con you into thinking there's four and still charge $2.10 (that was the last time i was home, but it's probably gone up since), bastards

nfitz
07-13-2010, 02:04 PM
like DichioTFC pointed out, has the team or anyone asked about coordinating something with GO? I e-mailed a question to them yesterday about why they couldn't do this for TFC. I'm sure it won't be answered ...

james
07-13-2010, 02:15 PM
well you are right on the fact that not all transit system is perfect. But i do think the Go train should most deffinitly beable to have a train going East and West to Union every 15 mins to every half hour at the very least.

Im living in London England right now and you are right that not all systems are perfect even in Big London the system can still be better. Whats good about it is the Subway reaches just about every corner of the city, theres so many different lines. Then the above ground rails that go to the suburbs are much more frequent then the Go train, often every 15 mins. Then you can go to just about anywhere in England from the London center on a train often not waitting more then half hour. Now that bad part....much like the Go train the above ground trains often end around 12:30-1am and subway often ends round 1am- 1:30am. Which sucks when you wanna get shitfaced in the city core and cant take subway or train home. However they do have many 24 hours bus routes which can be good at times, and shit at others. Traffic in London almost never moves fast, and even at 4am you can get in a traffic jam some how, that and sometimes youll be on a bus at 4am with some guy just throwing up all over the place :drinking::D

nfitz
07-13-2010, 02:24 PM
And in London they still don't run any bus or Underground service on some holidays ... or when they have the monthly strike!

And what about our 24-hour bus routes. The Yonge bus (http://www3.ttc.ca/Schedule/schedule.jsp?Route=320N&Stop=n.b._on_YONGE_at_QUEEN) (aka the Vomit Comet) runs every 3-4 minutes from when the subway closes to 4 AM, when it goes to every 15 minutes, and then becomes more frequent at 5 AM. The Bloor/Danforth bus runs every 15 minutes all-night. Virtually the entire city is walking distance from an all-night bus. I've used the Don Mills night bus a few times. The speed of that bus at 3 AM is very impressive!

Hitcho
07-13-2010, 05:27 PM
"If we want some real push behind this then we need MLSE on board. I suspect that neither they nor GO will be interested because if they put on extra trains for TFC then all the Leafs and Raptors fans will demand the same, not to mention Jays fans and Argos fans"


Your argument reminds me of a cafeteria worker who said " Christ !!, they're eating these as fast as we make them !!"

Isn't that the friggin point ????

haha - yes it is, and your response is a valid one. what i should have elaborated on was that if all the sports events wanted extra trains put on for the start and end of games then all of a sudden GO is looking at completely re-working its schedule. how many times a week are there jays, leafs, argos and/or tfc games on through the year? two additional trains per event, per line (or per some lines at least) and suddenly you've got an annual total of hundreds of extra trains being run. that means extra drivers, stewards (or customer service ambassadors or whatever they are offically called) signal and track workers, etc, plus whatever system they have in place for parking the trains in down time may have to be re-worked, with additional runs being made to get trains back to the start or end of lines ready for the following day or rush hour or whatever. And the impact of all o fthat is going to be one huge frigging bill, which GO likely won't cover from increased ticket sales because the vast majority of the people on any extra trains fall into the category of being A) monthly pass holders, B) people who would buy a ticket anyway even without the extra trains or C) fare dodgers, none of whom represent increased revenue. the only source of additional revenue for GO would be people who would otherwise not attend the game or take the train there unless the extra trains were put on, and I'm guessing that's not a very large number of people (maybe some people would take the "extra" train instead of driving there by car, but not that many). so they'd make a big fat loss, just to appease some soccer fans 15 times a year - doesn't seem likely to happen.

HOWEVER, making a fast train that's passing through Exhibition stop to let people on or off (as the case may be) would not cost anywhere near as much but could make a big difference. if nothing else, post game it would allow everyone to get to Union from where they could take the subway. pre-game it would allow everyone from west and east to get off at Exhibition at a mor convenient time. and it would surely help at elast some people get a better train home after the game, even if it meant driving to a different GO station (ie, part way) to do a park n ride effort and be ableto catch an express to clarkson, oakville or whatever which would otherwise just sail straight through. again, they'd make limited additional revenue but it would at least cost them far less money to do.

James17930
07-14-2010, 12:23 AM
And in London they still don't run any bus or Underground service on some holidays ... or when they have the monthly strike!

And what about our 24-hour bus routes. The Yonge bus (http://www3.ttc.ca/Schedule/schedule.jsp?Route=320N&Stop=n.b._on_YONGE_at_QUEEN) (aka the Vomit Comet) runs every 3-4 minutes from when the subway closes to 4 AM, when it goes to every 15 minutes, and then becomes more frequent at 5 AM. The Bloor/Danforth bus runs every 15 minutes all-night. Virtually the entire city is walking distance from an all-night bus. I've used the Don Mills night bus a few times. The speed of that bus at 3 AM is very impressive!

So they've changed that in the last few years -- the Blue Night routes used to be every 30 mins.

Sonny Cheeba
07-14-2010, 12:41 AM
GO, Via and CP Freights all share that line. to have GO add trains to accomodate an irregular schedule like TFC's is a HUGE pain in the cack.

doing it for a three-day event, not so much of a problem. having a thread on GO changing its schedule for TFC supporters at least once a year is pointless.

IF ANYTHING. what GO could do is get those double decker busses to run special event stylez to/from BMO.

and out of everything, Freight traffic is more important than commuter.

nfitz
07-14-2010, 06:19 AM
So they've changed that in the last few years -- the Blue Night routes used to be every 30 mins.30 years ago the Yonge Bus was once every 15 minutes (http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/schedules/night1982.pdf), before they developed the Blue Night routes across the city.

Sally Mack
07-15-2010, 12:06 AM
Go doesn't do it for TFC because MLSE doesn't pay GO to do it like Indy does.

Oh, and if anyone cares, PRESTO cards now work at exhibition station.

Red CB Toronto
07-15-2010, 01:48 AM
Who loves Black Legend !!!

nfitz
07-15-2010, 08:12 AM
Oh, and if anyone cares, PRESTO cards now work at exhibition station.If only it worked at the Lakeshore East stations! Personally, I'll be quite happy when I can stop carting around a 10-ride ticket ... that won't validate after I've been standing in the pouring rain for 2 hours!

mastermixer
07-15-2010, 09:05 AM
30 years ago the Yonge Bus was once every 15 minutes (http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/schedules/night1982.pdf), before they developed the Blue Night routes across the city.

Wow 28 years and a couple of million more people and they havent really expanded the Subway lines... So much for progress.