Our Forwards

[MartinUtd]

I wanted to get a discussion going on our attacking players since it seems there are a lot of varying opinions out there on our options. Here's my rundown of the situation:

Chad Barrett: We're slowing seeing more from Chad every week. His energy is a valuable commodity, but we all knew that. This season I've been particularly impressed with his movement on and off the ball and with him playing out wide more often he's putting a few good balls into the box. Definitely a keeper for the long term.


Fuad Ibrahim: Always shaky, but looking more and more confident. He actually fought for the last goal which is something I never thought I'd see after seeing him get pushed all around the park by defenders last season. He's been here for two seasons now but I'd like to remind everyone that he's still just 18. Put another 20lbs on the kid and he will be THE go to guy off the bench.

Jacob Peterson: Aka the invisible man. Seriously, the only time I notice this guy is when he fucks up. Fortunately Preki seems to have caught on and he's not seeing any time. I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was gone tomorrow.

O'Brian White: I have mixed feelings on this guy. A lot of people are saying we need to be patient or else he'll be the next Edson Buddle. While that is a worthwhile point, how much time do we have to give him? The guy is as slow as Gerba/Samuel but doesn't have the physical stature as an excuse. He has a cannon of a shot but not much else to offer. I have patience but if I don't see anything by season's end I think we should deal him to Vancouver or at least hang on to him as waiver bait.

Maicon Santos: Looked good against Colorado. Having known nothing about him I was told he was more of an outside winger player.. he didn't seem to fit that bill, but whatever the case I liked what I saw. I'm not sure exactly where he will fit in with Mista arriving.

DeRo: Have nothing bad to say about the guy. I'm looking forward to seeing him in his more natural attacking mid role rather than an out and out striker.

Mista: Have to wait and see on this one.


So that's my casual perspective. For you tattooed and branded TFC supporters, what do you think?

[ArmenJBX]

Honestly, I can't see Chad Barrett here next year :(

He's a Portland native and the Timbers need MLS American players. I have a feeling they're going to make us an offer we cannot refuse :(

OBW is good, he needs some time though. Maicon Santos and Mista likewise. De Rosario is baws. Ibby needs to go. I'm sorry, but beyond that goal, he was worthless on the field.

[MartinUtd]

Interesting about Barrett... I forgot about the Portland connection.

As far as OBW and Ibby goes... do you really think that time will be better to the older than the younger? Nationality status aside, I still think Ibrahim shows more promise. I just took a quick look at their MLS career stats:

Ibrahim has 2 goals , 3 assists in 850 minutes

OBW has 4 goals, 1 assist in 1103 minutes.

So production wise they're not that far off. The main difference is OBW is six years his senior.

[TFC_Central]

Chad Barrett: We're slowing seeing more from Chad every week. His energy is a valuable commodity, but we all knew that. This season I've been particularly impressed with his movement on and off the ball and with him playing out wide more often he's putting a few good balls into the box. Definitely a keeper for the long term.


I lol'ed we need him to score so we can trade him. All he brings to the club is a glimmer of hope. Then he misses 10 wide open nets. :picard:

[MartinUtd]

I think you're stuck in the past. According to MLSSoccer.com he's got 4 goals off 10 shots. Hardly a strike rate to turn your nose up at. Granted that's shots ON target, he hasn't been the trainwreck that he's been in the past. Beggers can't be choosers and there are definitely other players on the team that I'd be more frightened with having guarenteed contacts with.

[rocker]

it's hard to give up on White... he's shown brilliance at times in his goals. His scoring rate is not very good. And he gets off to a slow run (although his eventual top speed is good).
He's got size and strength, and in traffic he can usually muscle off a defender and keep control. He's got a hard shot and decent vision out there.

Negatives: he's old for a prospect (25 at the end of this year). He doesn't have many more growth years. He's coming off an injury that may or may not have affected his development (I never saw him before he got injured in college). If he graduates from Generation Adidas, his $180,000 salary is wayyyy too much under this cap.

Now, It's true that we've let go players who have succeeded elsewhere, but those guys had played, and scored a good amount, in MLS or elsewhere before coming to TFC.... and they scored in MLS or other leagues at younger than age 24.

I think White will have a good career when all is said and done. But whether or not the team should have the patience to wait years for that success is a big question. Remember that Cunningham had 1 good season with Dallas and now they've soured on him. Do you accept that inconsistency for years?

[Derko]

Although I did notice Ibrahim took all of the corners and wasn't that bad, at least they got into the box and were playable, not like that fickle short corner where we were always offside.

[ExiledRed]

Honestly, I can't see Chad Barrett here next year :(

He's a Portland native and the Timbers need MLS American players. I have a feeling they're going to make us an offer we cannot refuse :(

OBW is good, he needs some time though. Maicon Santos and Mista likewise. De Rosario is baws. Ibby needs to go. I'm sorry, but beyond that goal, he was worthless on the field.

dunno what the sad emo is about.

Barret's had far fewer 'good games' than bad ones, his salary has crippled us in the past, and it'll keep crippling us if we keep him.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

it's hard to give up on White... he's shown brilliance at times in his goals. His scoring rate is not very good. And he gets off to a slow run (although his eventual top speed is good).
He's got size and strength, and in traffic he can usually muscle off a defender and keep control. He's got a hard shot and decent vision out there.

Negatives: he's old for a prospect (25 at the end of this year). He doesn't have many more growth years. He's coming off an injury that may or may not have affected his development (I never saw him before he got injured in college). If he graduates from Generation Adidas, his $180,000 salary is wayyyy too much under this cap.

Now, It's true that we've let go players who have succeeded elsewhere, but those guys had played, and scored a good amount, in MLS or elsewhere before coming to TFC.... and they scored in MLS or other leagues at younger than age 24.

I think White will have a good career when all is said and done. But whether or not the team should have the patience to wait years for that success is a big question. Remember that Cunningham had 1 good season with Dallas and now they've soured on him. Do you accept that inconsistency for years?


yeah im with you.
basically hes had only really a half season as he was injured when he first came here and only had ncaa previous to that. i think we may have been promised big things but foolishly believed them. im not ready to give up on him yet and i dont think hes going to net us 15 a year but i do think he will be effective in time

[brad]

Everything about White that I don't like was apparent in the first half of the Colorado game this weekend.

He received the ball in a good position just outside the 18 yard box, at which point he should have immediately turned and tried to beat the last defender to get through on goal, or cracked a shot. Instead, he killed the play by looking around like a lost puppy dog trying to figure out what to do with the ball.

He just doesn't seem to have a footballing brain to me.

[brad]

dunno what the sad emo is about.

Barret's had far fewer 'good games' than bad ones, his salary has crippled us in the past, and it'll keep crippling us if we keep him.

I agree. I also think that Preki really likes him, and he won't be going anywhere.

[ExiledRed]

I think you're stuck in the past. According to MLSSoccer.com he's got 4 goals off 10 shots. Hardly a strike rate to turn your nose up at. Granted that's shots ON target, he hasn't been the trainwreck that he's been in the past. Beggers can't be choosers and there are definitely other players on the team that I'd be more frightened with having guarenteed contacts with.

You cant quantify Barrets skill from his last ten shots ON target. That might be half his career for all anybody can tell. For every shot on target He'll get twenty shots OFF target and some of those are often sitters. More interesting would be to see how many shots in 100 are actually ON target, and how many of those were actually goals.

Suggesting Barrett has a 40% strike rate is nonsense

[MartinUtd]

Yeah I realized the stat was for on target shots right after I posted it, hence the edit. The numbers are from the 2010 season only though and you have to admit he's another player entirely this year. Too bad they don't track total shots taken. I still stand by my claim that he's made vast improvements this year.

[RedsYNWA]

Chad Barrett: Too costly for the returns should be gone after this season
Fuad Ibrahim: He looks like a little kid out there just not good enough..nice goal just no consistency
Jacob Peterson: If he can get settled he could be better than Barrett...but i would not hold my breath
O'Brian White: All Hype, a flash of talent here and there, this year is do or die for the boy

Maicon Santos: Too early to tell but could gel into a 3rd option at least

DeRo: Legend, will play great behing a holding striker like a Mista

Mista: Too early to tell but I do see $$$ as a great incentive to have a new contract next year

[JonO]

Chad Barrett: I like him and hope we are able to keep him at a lower salary. If not, then it was nice while it lasted.

Jacob Peterson: Getting a bit too much stick if you ask me. He's coming off a major injury (if I am not mistaken) so I'm willing to give him some more time before I judge him. Also, he is not a forward.

[ExiledRed]

When Santos strode onto the pitch, he exuded confidence and actually projected his desire to score. He struck me immediately as a professional footballer and not a wannabe, like many are in this league.

There are people on here giving it the 'time will tell' treatment, and I cant really argue with that, he could prove to be a disaster, but...

My gut instinct, and immediate impression was that this dude is going to be a different kind of player than were used to seeing up front, and thats a good thing.

[ExiledRed]

Ibrahim's a kid, with more potential than most of the youngters weve seen here.

Those of you who claim he was invisible all of last season, might remember he didnt get much playtime to prevent a payout to Dallas.

I dont get much pleasure from watching our players, to be honest, but the look on Fuad's face even ten minutes after he scored, made my saturday

[rocker]

With Maicon, I'm going to go with the "In Preki We Trust" mantra.

You don't grab a guy days after he's released (a guy who isn't that cheap.. his salary is over 100K) unless you really trust and believe in him. Preki knows Maicon better than any of us. Obviously he believes Maicon offers something valuable.

[Bars92]

Unrelated to striking, but I think JDG and Maicon will do some damage once they get on the field together.

[DoubleUp]

When Santos strode onto the pitch, he exuded confidence and actually projected his desire to score. He struck me immediately as a professional footballer and not a wannabe, like many are in this league.

There are people on here giving it the 'time will tell' treatment, and I cant really argue with that, he could prove to be a disaster, but...

My gut instinct, and immediate impression was that this dude is going to be a different kind of player than were used to seeing up front, and thats a good thing.
I got that same feeling as well.
I think Barrett should finally be used as winger on reduced salary, I think Obw is fairly decent IQ wise but his physical attributes....Speed/reaction/touch is something we shouldnt waste anymore time on. I would prefer to keep Ibby because he's younger and shows just a bit more for his age than white, also we can afford to keep him for another 2 years before bringing the axe down if he does not improve. I see us finally establishing a core 11. Now I would like to see us trim the fat and bring players that will only bolster what we have....we can't continue to carry people simply because we like them....Canada/Toronto is a friendly caring place but this is a Business and should be treated as such, atleast until after we win the cup.:scarf::flare:

[pawlukj]

i dont really like obrian white, but dero and barrett can be good if they start feeding each other, mista i am waiting to see

[ag futbol]

No thank you to Chad Barrett starting (on the wing or up front). There's A LOT of underlying problems with his game (and it's not just about finishing) that prevent him from being a quality starter at the MLS level.

This has gone on for too long, time for Chad to make his impact as a sub. That's an acceptable way for him to prove himself going forward.

[DoubleUp]

No thank you to Chad Barrett starting (on the wing or up front). There's A LOT of underlying problems with his game (and it's not just about finishing) that prevent him from being a quality starter at the MLS level.

This has gone on for too long, time for Chad to make his impact as a sub. That's an acceptable way for him to prove himself going forward.


I disagree! Chad has been starting for our club and there's no reason he can't continue to do so his goal scoring has'nt been great, but work rate and chance creation is good. stick him on the wing and let him run till he's gassed, we don't have the luxury of not starting chad or any other player with superior skill or work rate.

[ExiledRed]

I disagree! Chad has been starting for our club and there's no reason he can continue to do so his goal scoring has'nt been great, but work rate and chance creation is good. stick him on the wing and let him run till he's gassed, we don't have the luxury of not starting chad or any other player with superior skill or work rate.

Chad's been starting for our club three seasons merely because it would be ridiculous to have a guy at that salary on the bench, especially when nobody wants to trade for him.

Barrett's chance creation could easily be perceived as chance wasting in most of his games for us, to be honest and throughout his career here, superior forwards have indeed sat while he's started and played frustrating games, and I'm pretty sure that within the next few games the superiority of Santos and Mista over Barrett will be plain as day.

[DichioTFC]

Goals and misses aside, Barrett opens up the opposing defence more than people realize. He has a great work rate and pretty good speed, his touch is reasonable. If the only problem with Barrett is finishing, he should definitely be a winger or an attacking mid to help out DeRo. That being said, if we could trade Barrett to Portland for their first round pick, I would be pleased.

OBW really needs to grow this season but contrary to someone else, next year is do or die year. With Vancouver coming in 2011 and Montreal in 2012, we have the time necessary to hold on to him and auction him off to the highest of the two bidders.

Tough to judge Ibby with the lack of playing time he receives. The more time he gets the better he'll be IMO. Where his ceiling is will be the question. Will he be a surprising semi-hero or a GA flame-out, it's tough to say.

[ag futbol]

I'd like to think that if Mo Johnston believed in signing actual wingers and we had one in our roster they might have done the job a lot better than Chud did, because there was a shitload of poor play we went through just to get that one cross. His first touch on numerous occasions was simply terrible to the point where he simply put it straight into the defender and he killed a bunch of attacking chances with some poor decision making.

As for the wing. We tried that last year. Whole lot of negative back passes and gassing at the 65th minute mark. His cardo has improved, but he's never going to last on the flank for 90.

I wonder if they talk about Justin Braun like this on the Chivas board...

[DoubleUp]

Chad's been starting for our club three seasons merely because it would be ridiculous to have a guy at that salary on the bench, especially when nobody wants to trade for him.

Barrett's chance creation could easily be perceived as chance wasting in most of his games for us, to be honest and throughout his career here, superior forwards have indeed sat while he's started and played frustrating games, and I'm pretty sure that within the next few games the superiority of Santos and Mista over Barrett will be plain as day.

Thats fine! but the things he does well more times than not benefit the team, no cross from chad, no goal for ibby, no 3points for the team. Its that simple!
stick him on the wings providing for our more technical forwards and suddenly he has a purpose!. This is a league where a scorned Rb(wynne) can be shipped out to become a starting Cb, so we know just because someone is not working out in one position doesnt mean he can't be utilized in a different role. Aslong as he would be willing to take a reduced salary, again with the new developments I don't see why he can't play wing for us. Like or not! Imo chad is one of the players in our strongest 11 maybe not as striker, but he is in our strongest 11. So you can look at it as, he just that good or the teams collective skill is just that low.

[jloome]

Barrett: Good work-rate, persistent and able to beat a man one on one. Bad positioning, bad movement off the ball, hangs too much off one defender and is easily moved to his weaker foot, outside the post, which makes it tougher to get a shot on or beat the keeper. Needs remedial work to fix his positioning and to keep his confidence high.

White: Good technique with the ball, poor first touch. Good speed, poor acceleration. He can hit the net, but lacks the confidence of a professional to open up space for himself and instead is prone to dish the ball, despite a quick release. Weak off the ball movement, though less static than Barrett. Movement is naive and doesn't play to weaknesses in opposition movement. Not ready for primetime, has prospects, but may be too old to correct many bad habits.

Ibrahim: Good off the ball movement and touch, first step is often poor. Seriously needs muscle but has good acceleration, so he shouldn't pack it on. Good movement in the box, willing to take a pop. Poor linkup play. Haven't seen enough of him as a striker to say where he is, but is as viable an option at 18 as either Barrett or OBW.

Maicon Santos: A guy looking for goals, from his first appearance. Hard to judge, as I've only seen him a couple of times with Chivas before here. Had trouble linking play back up with the midfield and dishing the ball as a holder, but instead looked like he should be playing as more of an attacker. Turns well with the ball, great first step, very quick shot release, though he tends to blast it ala Barrett. Interesting acquisition! He'll either score a bunch or end up Mista's backup.

I'm not even going to review Mista, as I haven't seen him play since Valencia. Back then, he had a cracker of a shot with either foot and can really hold a man off. But he's a lot older now. Anyway, a guy capped twice for spain who had 40 goals for Valencia starts, in my opinion, on pretty much any team in MLS.

[ExiledRed]

Ibrahim: Good off the ball movement and touch, first step is often poor. Seriously needs muscle but has good acceleration, so he shouldn't pack it on. Good movement in the box, willing to take a pop. Poor linkup play. Haven't seen enough of him as a striker to say where he is, but is as viable an option at 18 as either Barrett or OBW.



Thankyou,

Nobody has seen enough of him, although there are many on this board who see Barrett underachieving season after season and think he's great, that seem to think Ibrahim doesn't cut it.

Ibrahim got screwed by the Dallas deal, he didnt get played because we would have to pay an extra allocation to Dallas, if he did.

I'm pretty sure that if he got the amount of playing time Barrett has had, he would have more goals.

[razor787]

In my opinion, Ibrahim isnt ready for this league. He is close, but not quite. He needs to get minutes in against other reserve sides while training with our main team. Would speed his development a lot more then sitting him on the bench, only to put him on the pitch, and watch him get pushed around.

He has loads of potential. I want to keep the kid around for a while. He will be a great MLS Striker in a couple years.

[ExiledRed]

In my opinion, Ibrahim isnt ready for this league. He is close, but not quite. He needs to get minutes in against other reserve sides while training with our main team. Would speed his development a lot more then sitting him on the bench, only to put him on the pitch, and watch him get pushed around.

He has loads of potential. I want to keep the kid around for a while. He will be a great MLS Striker in a couple years.

I think he's earned another start, and I've seen plenty of kids his age rise to the occasion on the field. I think if he's not ready now, he wont be in a few years.

[andyc]

What we are talking about here is depth! Finally!! Not one of our strikers will be MLS Golden Boot winners, but between them we will probably have enough goals to allow TFC to be a lot more successful than we have been.

Let's not trade away these guys (unless we get a great offer). We need to build on this mixture of experience and youth to get to a stable and deep squad...

[razor787]

Why would we trade them away, when we finally have enough of them, to have a sub on the bench haha.

Honesltly though, I dont think our striking problem is fixed.

We have barrett who has lost his superb form
White who never found his form
Maicon who looked good last game, but was released from chivas for underperforming
Mista who hasnt been the goal scoring striker he once was.
Ibby who is too young to be a great player

We still dont have anyone that will keep the mesh at the back of the net moving.

And @ Red

Those players that excell at 19 are also those that are signed by big clubs. Players like Ibby, who show potential, but arent there yet, are those that would excell in leagues like mls, and may be ready for Prem leagues around 25.

[MartinUtd]

What we are talking about here is depth! Finally!! Not one of our strikers will be MLS Golden Boot winners, but between them we will probably have enough goals to allow TFC to be a lot more successful than we have been.

Let's not trade away these guys (unless we get a great offer). We need to build on this mixture of experience and youth to get to a stable and deep squad...

It is a great feeling having depth at striker. The unfortunate reality of MLS means we have to suffer at other positions (our defense is thin, I hate to see Cann or Attakora go down) if we want to stay under the cap. At least as long as we keep paying some of the contracts that we do.

To fix this we'll probably have to move somebody. I'd put my money on OBW unless he gets his shit together. If Mista works out it could be Barrett. I'll admit I'm one of those Chad Barrett bandwagon guys, but he's not worth $205k when he's only putting in a goal every 4 games. Even if he excels as a winger he's effectively making triple Will Johnson's money.

[ExiledRed]

Why would we trade them away, when we finally have enough of them, to have a sub on the bench haha.

Honesltly though, I dont think our striking problem is fixed.

We have barrett who has lost his superb form
White who never found his form
Maicon who looked good last game, but was released from chivas for underperforming
Mista who hasnt been the goal scoring striker he once was.
Ibby who is too young to be a great player

We still dont have anyone that will keep the mesh at the back of the net moving.

And @ Red

Those players that excell at 19 are also those that are signed by big clubs. Players like Ibby, who show potential, but arent there yet, are those that would excell in leagues like mls, and may be ready for Prem leagues around 25.

I agree with all this. I do however think that kids with the potential to excel in the big leagues, may be underdeveloped in MLS and they are disadvantaged by lesser coaching and prejudice towards north american soccer. I think MLS kids have to work twice as hard to get half as far, and players like Ibrahim are being hampered by political shit and MLS gimmicks such as the deal with Dallas which basically shafted his playing time last year. I also think that he has more chance of 'breaking out' next game than Barrett has of 'breaking out once again'

[MartinUtd]

That's a really good point to bring up. As a single entity, the league shouldn't allow contract stipulations that stifle development.

[razor787]

I agree with all this. I do however think that kids with the potential to excel in the big leagues, may be underdeveloped in MLS and they are disadvantaged by lesser coaching and prejudice towards north american soccer. I think MLS kids have to work twice as hard to get half as far, and players like Ibrahim are being hampered by political shit and MLS gimmicks such as the deal with Dallas which basically shafted his playing time last year. I also think that he has more chance of 'breaking out' next game than Barrett has of 'breaking out once again'

Although I dont think it is used all that often, the deal that happened with ibby, is done all over the world. Sometime its things like amount of starts in a season, total number of minutes played, or even international caps.

All of which, the teams take into consideration, to reduce the players cost.

And I also agree with that last statement. Ibby, with the amount of potential he has, very well could break out. I dont see it happening until the 2012 season at the earliest. Still needs some time to develop, with the occasional start.

[Kaz]

this issue isn't with the Forwards, it's a lack of coaching.. In past years we scored an average number of goals. But gave up too many goals. This year we are scoring about average again (though less then last year).

Preki's system is one that does not allow for a lot of goals, it's low scoring games and week attacking formation relying on midfield passing and defending, and requires a play maker to score with any regularity.

We say a flash of brilliance with OBW and Barrett as a strike team, with service coming from the mid field and DeRo picking up the rear during the Chicago game.

In that situation you have three people making room and working with each other to create chances. you can't leave as many people on the ball because you have two others that are a threat.

But that grouping has never been allowed to develop instead Preki plays Dero upfront with a much more holding midfield formation. which means often times it's one striker getting up front with little support and they can be shut down quickly, or shots come from a distance. Worse still he mixes that up too, occasionally starting different group upfront preventing anyone from getting used to any single formation. This results in poor linking and missed passes as well as missed chances on goal.

Add to this that Preki likes to make half time subs, resulting in issues later in the game... and you end up with a team with few scoring chances, a strong defense, and a team that will fall to any side that is willing to go all out and push hard. Because if you play for a 1-0 wins. (which is what Preki seems to plays for) you lose the playoffs, and you lose anything that is on aggregate

Preki has not killer instinct, and that is his downfall... and it's another fail from Mo. Preki as a coach seems to worry more about next weeks game then this weeks.

Don't get any CCL hopes up either Preki's system means we are unlikely to get to the group stage. Unless Mista, JDG, DeRo and another Striker link up really well in the coming weeks.

as far as I'm concerned if TFC does not qualify for the CCL, due to low scoring win, then Preki has failed as a coach.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

although i dont agree with everything Kaz has said, i do see/agree with some of it

[maninb]

"Because if you play for a 1-0 wins. (which is what Preki seems to plays for) you lose the playoffs, and you lose anything that is on aggregate"

Sorry but I think that statement is total BS....If you can win 1-0 games that means you'll do well in the playoffs...Just look at Inter in the Chamions League...DEFENCE wins championships not offence....

[ExiledRed]

Although I dont think it is used all that often, the deal that happened with ibby, is done all over the world. .

Yes. but it doesnt count against a cap in most parts of the world, The extra allocation money could have cost us a player or significantly reduced opur ability to sign an experienced player, so the ramifications of the deal impact the team and player considerably more.

[Oldtimer]

as far as I'm concerned if TFC does not qualify for the CCL, due to low scoring win, then Preki has failed as a coach.

If Preki goes beyond the first round in the MLS playoffs, I'll consider him a success.

[MartinUtd]

Yes. but it doesnt count against a cap in most parts of the world, The extra allocation money could have cost us a player or significantly reduced opur ability to sign an experienced player, so the ramifications of the deal impact the team and player considerably more.

Not to mention that other leagues have reserve sides. What we have here is a system where teams have disincentives to play young up and comers on the first team and no reserve games to give them match experience either. Its lose lose.

[ExiledRed]

"Because if you play for a 1-0 wins. (which is what Preki seems to plays for) you lose the playoffs, and you lose anything that is on aggregate"

Sorry but I think that statement is total BS....If you can win 1-0 games that means you'll do well in the playoffs...Just look at Inter in the Chamions League...DEFENCE wins championships not offence....

all the defence in the world means shit if you dont score a goal. You certainly dont win championships with 0-0 draws, and if the other team has a defensive mentality, then you have to ahave a solution to that up front.

It seems you can win the world cup on 1-0 wins though.

[Kaz]

If Preki goes beyond the first round in the MLS playoffs, I'll consider him a success.


If he gets past the first round it'll be his best season ever.


Manib... Preki in playoff and elimination playoffs will still pull his top strikers at half time if they are up by one goal in order to rest them the next game.

if you aren't playing to win and the other team is.. then you will lose..

Montreal two years ago was set to move on in the CCL so long as in the second half they didn't give up .. 4 goals I think.. the coach rather then continuing to attack pulled his strikers, didn't play let his players play the ball into Santos half, and basically said come and get us... Santos played to win.. and they did.. by enough goals to eliminate the Impact from the CCL.

Preki isn't quite that bad, but they way he plays means players don't have the same connection they would other wise, and will hinders moment of the players on the field.

Chivas never scored alot of goals, and has never made it past the qualifying stage of the CCL or the first round the MLS playoffs. Other teams go out in those situation... Preki's team dosen't because he plays for the next game... and in Live or Die you have to play for this game.

The forwards aren't the problem, it's the system.

[razor787]

Yes. but it doesnt count against a cap in most parts of the world, The extra allocation money could have cost us a player or significantly reduced opur ability to sign an experienced player, so the ramifications of the deal impact the team and player considerably more.

I didnt say to ship him off. I said to keep him around because, although he isnt that great at this moment, give him a couple years and he could be. Would be stupid to give him up, when he has the potential he does.

[LesH]

I agree 100% wit KAZ's posts in this thread.

Though Preki is by far the best coach TFC ever had, with him TFC will never be an MLS top team, or a good contender in the international cups because of his system and mentality.

[drexel10]

I agree 100% wit KAZ's posts in this thread.

Though Preki is by far the best coach TFC ever had, with him TFC will never be an MLS top team, or a good contender in the international cups because of his system and mentality.


Just to inform all of you, we were picked to come in 15th place this year. We haven't completed the 15th game of the season and you guys are making some incredible predictions?? RSL took a few years to get to where they are, as did Columbus, LA and RBNY a little quicker, but c'mon, we have a decent record and we have played some games without a real MLS claibre starting forward. The team hasn't lost since May 1st, we are playing better and adding players, give the man a chance to show what he can do with a full lineup now.

[Stouffville_RPB]

Outside of DeRo no one can score consistantly. We have a bunch of complimentary strikers.

Barrett is good for 7 or 8 which isn't great but it's what we got.
OBW is good for 4 or 5 which is a shame because post knee injury he was the best young player in the NCAA.
Maicon hasn't score consistantly but what he does bring is a willingness to take a decent shot from anywhere on the pitch.
Mista hasn't scored at a good rate in years (hoping that means he contributes in other ways).
Ibby needs more playing time to mature as a player. Too old to get academy games too young to get first team. These are the players that are getting killed by the decision to remove the reserve league because the potential is there.

[LesH]

Outside of DeRo no one can score consistantly. We have a bunch of complimentary strikers.

This!

[v00d00daddy]

Outside of DeRo no one can score consistantly. We have a bunch of complimentary strikers.

Barrett is good for 7 or 8 which isn't great but it's what we got.
OBW is good for 4 or 5 which is a shame because post knee injury he was the best young player in the NCAA.
Maicon hasn't score consistantly but what he does bring is a willingness to take a decent shot from anywhere on the pitch.
Mista hasn't scored at a good rate in years (hoping that means he contributes in other ways).
Ibby needs more playing time to mature as a player. Too old to get academy games too young to get first team. These are the players that are getting killed by the decision to remove the reserve league because the potential is there.

I agree with you about Barrett, OBW and Ibby as fas as being complimentary strikers.

As for Mista and Maicon.....maybe we want to see them play a couple games (or at least one in Mista's case) before we write them off as "complimentary" or anything else.

We need a striker who can bury the chances that a guy like Barrett gets and screws up. If that happens Preki's system will look brilliant because, as people here have already said....

Defence first, then scoring.

[Stouffville_RPB]

As for Mista and Maicon.....maybe we want to see them play a couple games (or at least one in Mista's case) before we write them off as "complimentary" or anything else.

Defence first, then scoring.

I'm not writing them off just saying that based on their recent history they haven't been the go to guy.

As for the defence first, that is true. My general thinking, in all sports, is that if the other team doesn't score you can't lose. The thread is about "our forwards" so I just kept my post focused on that.

[v00d00daddy]

I'm not writing them off just saying that based on their recent history they haven't been the go to guy.

As for the defence first, that is true. My general thinking, in all sports, is that if the other team doesn't score you can't lose. The thread is about "our forwards" so I just kept my post focused on that.


Gotchya. Makes sense.

[Oldtimer]

Maicon has been a great addition to the strike force, Mista's been a disappointment so far (maybe due to being out of shape). Barrett is doing considerably better than last year.

[woolly]

I'm curious on other people's perspective on Ibraham. He's gotten light minutes, but more than Gala, who shows a slight edge in skill and a bigger edge in not getting pushed off the ball.

Should Gala get more minutes as a forward?

[sampace]

Ibby well get his chance against Mexico to shine on Tuesday with all of our injuries, unless we only play one forward?

[Yohan]

ironic how chad barrett is one of the keys (i'd put him just slightly behind dero in terms of importance) to TFC offence

[TFCREDNWHITE]

this issue isn't with the Forwards, it's a lack of coaching.. In past years we scored an average number of goals. But gave up too many goals. This year we are scoring about average again (though less then last year).

Preki's system is one that does not allow for a lot of goals, it's low scoring games and week attacking formation relying on midfield passing and defending, and requires a play maker to score with any regularity.



Add to this that Preki likes to make half time subs, resulting in issues later in the game... and you end up with a team with few scoring chances, a strong defense, and a team that will fall to any side that is willing to go all out and push hard. Because if you play for a 1-0 wins. (which is what Preki seems to plays for) you lose the playoffs, and you lose anything that is on aggregate

Preki has not killer instinct, and that is his downfall... and it's another fail from Mo. Preki as a coach seems to worry more about next weeks game then this weeks.

Don't get any CCL hopes up either Preki's system means we are unlikely to get to the group stage. Unless Mista, JDG, DeRo and another Striker link up really well in the coming weeks.

as far as I'm concerned if TFC does not qualify for the CCL, due to low scoring win, then Preki has failed as a coach.


Well i guess you were completely wrong, as fact is; we did make it into the CCL Group stages, which is a huge step for Canadian football. As for losing in the playoff?? Lets make the playoffs first!

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Maicon has been a great addition to the strike force, Mista's been a disappointment so far (maybe due to being out of shape). Barrett is doing considerably better than last year.

I think everything we have seen from Mista so far is him releying on "knowledge" and "superior skill" to try and produce....He definitely needs to get in shape and get fit...but he has been struggling with those issues the last 4 years....

[Heart of Stone]

There's a time to play and there's a time to win... dero knows how to win.

[TFCDP]

Mista has been here how long now? It still looks like he's running in sand... Obviously, tremendous skill but my god man, someones gotta start cracking the whip during training.

[Yohan]

Mista kinda reminds me of more skilled Gerba

[Heart of Stone]

The chance Mista created for himself in the K.C. game revealed his MLS potential...

[Carts]

This may sound weird, but I think the NY game will do good things for Mista...

First up, with Barrett out there's no more time to get up to speed - time to start and go for 90 my man...

Second, he was pissed off, frustrated, and angry... If there's a true competitor in him, this will wake him up and push him forward, push him to work, and in turn we should see his fitness & work match his skill... However. If he's a headcase or sulker, he'll go backwards and not forwards from it...

I liked seeing him all piss & vinegar during and after the match - I'm hoping it lit a fire under him and we'll see more from him from now on...

Carts...

[Pachuco]

I think we have a good mixture of forwards right now. I really don't think our scoring problems comes from our strikers, it comes from our midfielders and lack of wing play. We have Labrocca, Peterson, JDG, Saric, Sanyang, Nane, Gala in the midfield. Not a single one of those guys is a scoring threat and it is rare when one of those guys actually puts a good ball through to our strikers. Not a single one of those guys can play the wing but most of them have been put on the wing at one point or another because we have no wingers. If I was defending against TFC I'd let any of those players take a shot from the 18 yard box or attempt a cross before I let one of the strikers out of my sight.

When we score it's usually because guys like Dero, Maicon or Barret create something out of nothing. It never feels like we develop an attacking threat starting in the middle or on the wings. We have a team that consists of a bunch of midfielders who are there to run hard but none of them have the ability to create chances going forward.

We need to get rid of guys like Peterson and Labrocca and start finding some real wingers or midfielders who are an attacking threat.

[Dub Narcotic]

I think we have a good mixture of forwards right now. I really don't think our scoring problems comes from our strikers, it comes from our midfielders and lack of wing play. We have Labrocca, Peterson, JDG, Saric, Sanyang, Nane, Gala in the midfield. Not a single one of those guys is a scoring threat and it is rare when one of those guys actually puts a good ball through to our strikers. Not a single one of those guys can play the wing but most of them have been put on the wing at one point or another because we have no wingers. If I was defending against TFC I'd let any of those players take a shot from the 18 yard box or attempt a cross before I let one of the strikers out of my sight.

When we score it's usually because guys like Dero, Maicon or Barret create something out of nothing. It never feels like we develop an attacking threat starting in the middle or on the wings. We have a team that consists of a bunch of midfielders who are there to run hard but none of them have the ability to create chances going forward.

We need to get rid of guys like Peterson and Labrocca and start finding some real wingers or midfielders who are an attacking threat.

Bang on. De Ro and Barrett have both done well this year, and Santos look threatening. The midfielders don't chip in with goals or much setup play. How many easy tap-ins do you see our forwards get?

[Heart of Stone]

This may sound weird, but I think the NY game will do good things for Mista...

First up, with Barrett out there's no more time to get up to speed - time to start and go for 90 my man...

Second, he was pissed off, frustrated, and angry... If there's a true competitor in him, this will wake him up and push him forward, push him to work, and in turn we should see his fitness & work match his skill... However. If he's a headcase or sulker, he'll go backwards and not forwards from it...

I liked seeing him all piss & vinegar during and after the match - I'm hoping it lit a fire under him and we'll see more from him from now on

Agreed... hope he now shows what he's got... worry about him turning into a Laurent Robert part deux - lots of skill & sulking but minimal results...