Interesting interview with Garber

[Oldtimer]

An interesting interview with "The Don" on the FAN590:

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20100707_130453_5832

Some points:

(1) He (now) gets the need for a real football environment in the stands, mentions the RPB by name. Will not allow vuvuzelas at this point in time.
(2) Still continuing to improve the league, current focus on DPs at this stage.
(3) Would prefer team #20 to be in New York.
(4) The US-Ghana match out-rated the NBA final.

[Carts]

An interesting interview with "The Don" on the FAN590:

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20100707_130453_5832

Some points:

(1) He (now) gets the need for a real football environment in the stands, mentions the RPB by name. Will not allow vuvuzelas at this point in time.
(2) Still continuing to improve the league, current focus on DPs at this stage.
(3) Would prefer team #20 to be in New York.
(4) The US-Ghana match out-rated the NBA final.

I just don't get it...

They have a team that isn't setting any attendance records, and he wants a 2nd team in the same area...??

Unless he can get one in central Manhattan (good luck) why is this even in his mind...

I normally agree with 'The Don' in matters of the league and business, but this one baffles my mind...

Otherwise, great to hear about the USA TV numbers... Funny enough, here in Canada, the USA-Ghana game is still (even after England's rnd of 16 match, and all the 8's & 4's matches) still one of CBC's highest rated games of the tournament...

Carts...

[TFCRegina]

I just don't get it...

They have a team that isn't setting any attendance records, and he wants a 2nd team in the same area...??

Unless he can get one in central Manhattan (good luck) why is this even in his mind...

I normally agree with 'The Don' in matters of the league and business, but this one baffles my mind...

Otherwise, great to hear about the USA TV numbers... Funny enough, here in Canada, the USA-Ghana game is still (even after England's rnd of 16 match, and all the 8's & 4's matches) still one of CBC's highest rated games of the tournament...

Carts...

Well, NY is really NJ...so having two teams there might create a derby atmosphere...it would be good for the league, as long as one of the teams was actually based in NY.

[Redcoe15]

I wouldn't mind a second team in New York if its first team, RBNY, was actually creating a buzz and demand for its team. If Thierry Henry can't make it happen, if he ends up signing with them, it shouldn't really happen. But I think it won't stop them from doing it though.

[maninb]

I still can't believe that the Miami area with it's millions of Latinos can't make a franchise work there....

[Jamaicanadian]

^^^I find that interesting as well...Not just the latin population but big Hatian, Jamaican and other Caribbean island's as well!!

[Oldtimer]

I still can't believe that the Miami area with it's millions of Latinos can't make a franchise work there....

If you look at the census info:




Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 238,351 65.8% Male 180,194 49.7% Mexican 3,669 1.0% Female 182,276 50.3% Puerto Rican 10,257 2.8% Cuban 123,763 34.1% Under 5 years 21,222 5.9% Other Hispanic or Latino 100,662 27.8%
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:uFqDwvamcJQJ:www.hellomiami.com/Census.Cfm+Miami+latino+break+down&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a

More than half of the Latinos come from Puerto Rico or Cuba, where baseball is the main sport.

Even more important, 2/3 of residents are renters. That often indicates either poor or transient/seasonal residents. Not exactly the groups to shell out cash for season tickets.

[ag futbol]

If you live in certain boroughs of New York you are so far removed from what's happening in NJ it doesn't even enter your mind. NFL knows this too and they've always had one eye on something on the other side of the river, but as you can imagine trying to fit that size of a project into NYC or the surrounding areas is a tough task. So the bottom line here is that part of NYC (just like part of LA - which is why they always talk of moving Chivas) is completely unserved.

The original Miami teams could have been a case study on how not to run a business it was so poorly done. If you put something in the city in a good SSS facility it will fly. They are perfectly set up for MLS in the sense that they can get all kinds of MLS level guys that will bring in the internationals.

[rocker]

I have no problem with a true NY team .. that would be cool, if done right. I think it would be massively successful.

I guess my issue is what it means for NJ Red Bulls. I'm not sure attendance would go up at Red Bull beyond the 1 game where NJ plays NY. the Nets haven't exactly packed their arena despite having the Knicks rivalry down the road. Fans might choose to get their MLS fix at the new NY stadium, rather than bothering with NJ.

[Miko]

An interesting interview with "The Don" on the FAN590:

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20100707_130453_5832

Some points:

(1) He (now) gets the need for a real football environment in the stands, mentions the RPB by name. Will not allow vuvuzelas at this point in time.
(2) Still continuing to improve the league, current focus on DPs at this stage.
(3) Would prefer team #20 to be in New York.
(4) The US-Ghana match out-rated the NBA final.

This number is a little deceiving.

The ratings were higher than the game 5 rating but the game 7 rating was massive for the NBA.

USA - Ghana drew an 8.2 rating on ABC
Game 7 drew an 11.9 rating on ABC

Even if you add in the Univision numbers, it still fell short.

Interestingly enough, the USA - Ghana game wasn't even the highest rated mens game ever - the 1994 QF against Brazil drew a 9.3.

[habstfc]

T.V. numbers are a little deceiving, and isn't always indicitive of the real interest of the sport. Just look at these past winter olympics, on most nights nbc had 30 million viewers but that isn't a real indicator about americans really being "interested" in skiing, snowboarding or speed skating etc. It's the same with soccer, sure people will watch if america is playing in a tournament every four years, but it doesn't mean that the average american watching the ghana game really cares about, or is interested in watching soccer live in person, or on t.v. Going to new york when the first team isn't really a success is a big mistake.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

T.V. numbers are a little deceiving, and isn't always indicitive of the real interest of the sport. Just look at these past winter olympics, on most nights nbc had 30 million viewers but that isn't a real indicator about americans really being "interested" in skiing, snowboarding or speed skating etc. It's the same with soccer, sure people will watch if america is playing in a tournament every four years, but it doesn't mean that the average american watching the ghana game really cares about, or is interested in watching soccer live in person, or on t.v. Going to new york when the first team isn't really a success is a big mistake.

Agreed. If Red Bull were a New York sized version of the TFC success, it would make sense. As it is...

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

An interesting interview with "The Don" on the FAN590:

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20100707_130453_5832

Some points:

(1) He (now) gets the need for a real football environment in the stands, mentions the RPB by name. Will not allow vuvuzelas at this point in time.
(2) Still continuing to improve the league, current focus on DPs at this stage.
(3) Would prefer team #20 to be in New York.
(4) The US-Ghana match out-rated the NBA final.

This number is a little deceiving.

The ratings were higher than the game 5 rating but the game 7 rating was massive for the NBA.

USA - Ghana drew an 8.2 rating on ABC
Game 7 drew an 11.9 rating on ABC

Even if you add in the Univision numbers, it still fell short.

Interestingly enough, the USA - Ghana game wasn't even the highest rated mens game ever - the 1994 QF against Brazil drew a 9.3.

The number may be a little deceiving, but isn't it good to be talking about soccer ratings that are in the same ballpark as NBA playoff ratings?

[Miko]

[quote=Miko;1087086]

The number may be a little deceiving, but isn't it good to be talking about soccer ratings that are in the same ballpark as NBA playoff ratings?

It is, but it's more a function of having the US playing that particular game as opposed to any love of the sport.

The overall rating for this World Cup is averaging a 1.8.

[Keystone FC]

I have no problem with a true NY team .. that would be cool, if done right. I think it would be massively successful.

I guess my issue is what it means for NJ Red Bulls. I'm not sure attendance would go up at Red Bull beyond the 1 game where NJ plays NY. the Nets haven't exactly packed their arena despite having the Knicks rivalry down the road. Fans might choose to get their MLS fix at the new NY stadium, rather than bothering with NJ.
Garber wants a NYC club so 1) He can say MLS has a club in the city that matters most, and 2) He wants that NYC money and all that goes along with it.
If Garber gets it I could see the NYC club possibly sharing RedBull Arena for a year or two before the City club gets it's own stadium. Right there would be a major lift for both clubs as each team would want to out due the other in everything (attendance, supporters, noise...etc).
Another thing to remember is that there is still the matter of the Mets owner possibly building a SSS right next to the new Mets home, so that has to be considered.

[ensco]

If I were King:

The second New York team makes tons of sense. The league needs to get the northeast rivalries going (Metrostars-DCU were huge in the first 10 years of the league, but have really fallen back). Philly is set. DC needs a better stadium situation somehow. Screw the Krafts and their mad cheapskate desire to utilize their white elephant in Foxboro, New England has to move downtown somehow, there are at least three good college football stadiums in Boston proper that would be great.

Miami makes tons of sense. The Cuban/Puerto Rican thing is just not important, they love soccer too. The renter thing? Give me a break. Drive around Dade/Broward, any demographic neighbourhood, you see five soccer fields for every baseball field. Miami cares about soccer more than any city in North America. But the stadium has to be central.

The second LA team, and Columbus, need to move.

Still room for one more team. Maybe St Louis.

[devioustrevor]

Unless he can get one in central Manhattan (good luck) why is this even in his mind...


Central Manhattan? You do know what is in the centre of Manhattan, don't you?

[James17930]

I still think the biggest problem with RBNY was the re-branding. At the end of the day, 'true' football fans balk at the idea of supporting something with such a stupid, obvious, corporate name.

I think a 2nd franchise would get all those 'true' fans in NY itself, but yeah -- I just can't see RBNY drawing anymore than what they already do, Henry or not.

[james]

I still think the biggest problem with RBNY was the re-branding. At the end of the day, 'true' football fans balk at the idea of supporting something with such a stupid, obvious, corporate name.

I think a 2nd franchise would get all those 'true' fans in NY itself, but yeah -- I just can't see RBNY drawing anymore than what they already do, Henry or not.

i agree the name change really lost alot of fans. I think they could change the name but still be sponsored and owned and all by Red Bull. I seriously think they should go back to the old school name and even jerseys of the Metrostars and have a metrostar crest on the jersey and then have Red Bull on the Jersey as the team sponsor (just like how we have BMO on are jersey) and then keep the stadium name as Red Bull Arena. I mean there is a point where the Red Bull advertising on just one team is over kill.

[james]

If I were King:

The second New York team makes tons of sense. The league needs to get the northeast rivalries going (Metrostars-DCU were huge in the first 10 years of the league, but have really fallen back). Philly is set. DC needs a better stadium situation somehow. Screw the Krafts and their mad cheapskate desire to utilize their white elephant in Foxboro, New England has to move downtown somehow, there are at least three good college football stadiums in Boston proper that would be great.

Miami makes tons of sense. The Cuban/Puerto Rican thing is just not important, they love soccer too. The renter thing? Give me a break. Drive around Dade/Broward, any demographic neighbourhood, you see five soccer fields for every baseball field. Miami cares about soccer more than any city in North America. But the stadium has to be central.

The second LA team, and Columbus, need to move.

Still room for one more team. Maybe St Louis.

Teams like FC Dallas get worse attendence then Chivas and Columbus, if anyone goes it should be FC Dallas. In fact Columbus often get better attendence then New England, New York, Colorado, Kansas, and San Jose (to there disadvantage tho San Jose and Kansas City stadiums are tiny and can only fit 10,000) But still, they are not the worst supported team in the League. And have one of the better atmosphere in the entire MLS as well!

St.Louis has a new team in what is now the NASL i believe and are talking about folding after the first year. Not sure if the team was properly funded? being played in a shit stadium? im not sure but it doesnt look good there right now. Population wise Miami also makes more sense. Altho the city itself isnt that much bigger then St.Louis (miami -433,000 vs St.Louis 354,000) Miami is built in a much smaller land area and is twice as highly densely populated as St.Louis is and the Metro Population is 5.2 million in Miami vs 2.8 million in St.Louis. However i think none of this matters if the team in Miami isnt played in Central miami in a proper Soccer stadium, with a properly marketed team.

[ensco]

Teams like FC Dallas get worse attendence then Chivas and Columbus, if anyone goes it should be FC Dallas.

No real argument from me there. Dallas and Colorado are pretty troubled franchises.

Those are big MSAs, though, which Columbus isn't, so there's hope that some day they could turn it.

[nfitz]

Central Manhattan? You do know what is in the centre of Manhattan, don't you?There's that big huge park ... forget the name, but it is very Central. Could stick a soccer stadium in their ... easy-peasy. There's what ... 2-dozen or so baseball diamonds in there?

Seriously though ... what about the Bronx ... perhaps somewhere near Yankee Stadium. There seems to be plenty of land here, between the parking lots, the old stadium, the athletic track, etc. It's right on the subway, easy to get to Manhattan ... and I've seen plenty of people taking the subway through there from the north to get to New Jersey to see some Hispanic team play a soccer friendly.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

St Louis had two suspect backers that have disappeared and now the league will be paying for it, it had nothing to do with support. That being said i dont think they had huge support.

[james]

well here is a view from the Yankee stadium area:

Old Yankee Stadium-

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/champken/yankee_stadium_1_m.jpg

New Stadium
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/champken/yankke5.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/champken/Yankke6.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/champken/yankeestadium.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/champken/yankeestadium2.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/champken/YankkeStadium3.jpg

i only really see room for another stadium there if they built it right where the old Yankee stadium was!!

[james]

there is more room where the Mets play...but then they are also further away from the City core.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/champken/Mets3.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac72/champken/MetsStadium.jpg

[James17930]

i agree the name change really lost alot of fans. I think they could change the name but still be sponsored and owned and all by Red Bull. I seriously think they should go back to the old school name and even jerseys of the Metrostars and have a metrostar crest on the jersey and then have Red Bull on the Jersey as the team sponsor (just like how we have BMO on are jersey) and then keep the stadium name as Red Bull Arena. I mean there is a point where the Red Bull advertising on just one team is over kill.

That would be the perfect solution to me.

Or even buy the rights to the name 'Cosmos' and use that.

[james]

No real argument from me there. Dallas and Colorado are pretty troubled franchises.

Those are big MSAs, though, which Columbus isn't, so there's hope that some day they could turn it.

well Denver city population is only 610,000 and Metro 1.9 million, While Columbus is 754,000 and metro 1.7 million. Not much different....Denver is slightly more densely populated then Columbus but away to look at it, Missisauga has 706,000 and is more crowded by about about 600 more people per sq.km then Denver, and by Columbus like 800 more people per km. So really these cities arent that much bigger then each other and in a sparsely populated area.

Dallas has 1.3 million people and a big metro area, but also there land area is massive, Dallas densisty is similar to Denver.

Heres one thing i think Columbus has up on Denver and Dallas. Denver and Dallas play out of the city in the suburbs (exspecially Dallas, they play something like an hour away from the city which is further away from the city then any other team in MLS!!) While Columbus tho the stadium isnt downtown it is actually in the City of Columbus, not in some suburb. Dallas need to move closer to the city if they ever want to inprove attendence.

Some cities do seem bigger then they are untill you find out how much land area there is and how much open space. Then you realize the city isnt that heavily populated and how far some people would have to travel to get to the stadium.

[Parkdale]

Miami makes tons of sense. The Cuban/Puerto Rican thing is just not important, they love soccer too. The renter thing? Give me a break. Drive around Dade/Broward, any demographic neighbourhood, you see five soccer fields for every baseball field. Miami cares about soccer more than any city in North America. But the stadium has to be central.

I don't know....

have a look at the attendance stats for Miami FC (http://www.soccer-training-info.com/2007_usl_attendance.asp)

yes it's 2007, and not the best source in the world, but there's under 1000 people going to each game, and it's impossible to say Miami gives a shit about that team. A friend of mine lives in South Beach and has always said that people don't understand that Miami is NOT a sports town. It's vacation town, a celebrity town, a music town, a beach town... and maybe the Heat will give the NBA a boost, but it's just not a city that goes to watch sports locally. Sure the people love soccer and their hometown (latin country) teams, but there's a huge divide there.

Miami has a huge divide between rich and poor. The people who love soccer are predominantly on the poor side of things, which makes the whole idea of having a big soccer team a tough sell. The rich people want private boxes and luxury perks, the poor people want affordable tickets, free parking and a place for the kids to play before the game. There is no happy balance that will satisfy both sides, and if the stadium gets built in an area that is either too rich, or too poor... you can say goodbye to the other demographic entirely.

believe me.... I wish there was a team in Miami. I've been to that city maybe 10 times in my life and really love it, but I know that professional soccer would be a HUGE gamble.

[rdroze]

I don't know....

have a look at the attendance stats for Miami FC (http://www.soccer-training-info.com/2007_usl_attendance.asp)

yes it's 2007, and not the best source in the world, but there's under 1000 people going to each game, and it's impossible to say Miami gives a shit about that team.

Just to give some more recent numbers, Miami was dead last in USL average attendance for 2007, 2008, 2009, and [so far] in 2010. This season's average attendance is around 1200, barely one-quarter the average attendance of the other 11 teams.

But of course, we more than anyone should understand that USL attendance figures can have little or no relevance to MLS attendance figures.

[Parkdale]

^ thanks for digging up the other numbers. And yes, USL numbers and MLS numbers are different things, but what will be relevant are the demographics. Sure a flashy new stadium and some big signings will bring in some new interest, but if the 1200 people watching the games are low income, recently landed immigrants, all the flash, it would take a total overhaul to get richer families interested. The divide between rich and poor is huge in Miami.

[Detroit_TFC]

St Louis has many good points to it on paper. But Cooper has completely fucked up with AC St Louis and ex-Athletica. If he is attached to any proposed ownership group, it will be vetoed.

[Redcoe15]

St Louis has many good points to it on paper. But Cooper has completely fucked up with AC St Louis and ex-Athletica. If he is attached to any proposed ownership group, it will be vetoed.
Sadly true, that. To make matters worse, St. Louis was ranked 32nd in the major U.S. markets for viewing the World Cup. Not a good sign for a city that declares itself the soccer mecca of America.

The column (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/dan-caesar/article_05d68c23-5f63-538c-9569-cc7a48c189bd.html)

And the numbers (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/dan-caesar/article_af1d79a4-0b33-5463-a0e9-17792a8baa1e.html)

[Parkdale]

worth reposting:

MARKET RATING
1. Miami 3.7
2. New York 3.3
2. Washington 3.3
2. San Diego 3.3 5. San Francisco 3.1
6. Norfolk, Va. 2.9
7. Las Vegas 2.8
7. West Palm
Beach, Fla. 2.8
9. Boston 2.7
10. Austin, Texas 2.5
10. Baltimore 2.5
12. Atlanta 2.4
13. Seattle 2.3
13. Los Angeles 2.3
13. Hartford, Conn. 2.3
13. Cincinnati 2.3
17. Sacramento 2.2
17. Houston 2.2
17. Providence, R.I. 2.2
20. Tampa, Fla. 2.1
21. Richmond, Va. 2.0
21. Ft. Myers, Fla. 2.0
21. Salt Lake City 2.0
21. Phoenix 2.0
21. Columbus, Ohio 2.0
26. Dallas 1.9
26. Raleigh, N.C. 1.9
26. Greensboro, N.C 1.9
26. Chicago 1.9
26. Charlotte, N.C. 1.9
26. Denver 1.9
32. St. Louis 1.8
32. Philadelphia 1.8
32. Orlando, Fla. 1.8
32. Kansas City 1.8
32. San Antonio 1.8
32. Dayton, Ohio 1.8
38. Jacksonville, Fla. 1.7
38. Indianapolis 1.7
38. Albuquerque,
N.M. 1.7
41. Detroit 1.6
41. Cleveland 1.6
41. Portland, Ore. 1.6

[twistedchinaman]

MARKET RATING (in MLS cities)
2. New York 3.3
2. Washington 3.3
5. San Francisco 3.1
9. Boston 2.7
13. Seattle 2.3
13. Los Angeles 2.3
17. Houston 2.2
21. Salt Lake City 2.0
21. Columbus 2.0
26. Dallas 1.9
26. Chicago 1.9
26. Denver 1.9
32. Philadelphia 1.8
32. Kansas City 1.8



...and if we look at the way it breaks down in MLS markets, the WC did well in almost all of 'em. How this will translate into domestic league support...well...

(P.S. I hope I am safe in assuming that the entire Bay Area is included in the 'Frisco market...)

[twistedchinaman]

St Louis has many good points to it on paper. But Cooper has completely fucked up with AC St Louis and ex-Athletica. If he is attached to any proposed ownership group, it will be vetoed.

I'm sure SOMEONE from the Busch brewing company's ownership group will step forward and take Cooper's place?

[ExiledRed]

How does Miami FC's attendance stack up against that of the Lynx?

Cause if people used the lynx stats against the Toronto bid for an MLS team, in the way that you are using them against a Miami franchise. we'd have been fucked royally.

The point is that whats on offer has to be worth watching, and the USL product isnt interesting to people who care about football just because its football.