A Modest Proposal to Re-Jig The Voyageurs Cup Tournament

[bgnewf]

A Modest Proposal For The Voyageurs Cup - 2011 & Beyond

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/05/a-modest-proposal/

A Modest Proposal to re-jig the future editions of the Voyageurs Cup Tournament for the Canadian Championship. Comments always welcome.
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Without a doubt there has been controversy surrounding the format for the Voyageurs Cup Tournament since its inception three years ago. Vancouver Whitecaps fans have felt aggrieved for two years now, none more so than of course in 2009... Slightly less so in 2010, but aggrieved nonetheless.

The format of the competition since inception is six matches in total played home and away for each club, with the clubs playing three games each in total to decide the winner on points (or additional tie breakers such as head to head, goal difference, etc.). In the past two seasons Montreal has been eliminated before going into their last game and this of course has been the point of contention, especially on the left coast.

In the Canadian Soccer Association's defence it would be hard to come up with any other format involving three teams that did not potentially lead to this sort of eventuality, especially with league form being so important to teams trying to make a profit.

However there is light on the horizon, and that light is coming from northern Alberta in the form of FC Edmonton. Edmonton will be launching a D2 club next season, playing at the same level that Vancouver and Montreal currently play at. With four professional clubs playing in North America's top two divisions (MLS and USL/NASL) now the opportunity presents itself to re-jig the Voyageurs Cup tournament to make it bigger and better in years to come. And it is very easily accomplished. Here is what I propose for 2011, 2012 and beyond.



2011

Toronto FC, as Canada's only 2010 MLS club, and 2010 Champions, are seeded first in the 2011 pool
Vancouver or Montreal are seeded second or third respectively based on their order of finish in the USL/NASL regular season
FC Edmonton, as the newcomers, are slotted into the fourth position
Toronto would play FC Edmonton in a home and away series with the first game in Edmonton and the deciding match played in Toronto. Vancouver and Montreal would do the same and whichever team finished ahead of the other in 2010 would get the second game at home. The winners of these two match-ups would play a one game, winner take all, Championship match at BMO Field, the home stadium of the 2010 Voyageurs Cup Champions.



2012

The Vancouver Whitecaps or Toronto FC are seeded first or Second in 2012 based on their respective finishes in the 2011 MLS regular season
FC Edmonton or the Montreal Impact are seeded third or fourth respectively
The tournament would run in the same five game fashion as 2011, with the final being held in the stadium of the 2011 Cup Winner.

2013 and beyond

By 2013's edition of the tournament there will be three MLS clubs in Canada. Assuming one of them (due respect Edmonton) is the 2012 champion, then that club gets to play the D2 club. The other two MLS sides would play each other home and away for the right to make it to the Championship game. If other D2 clubs (Ottawa, Hamilton, Victoria, etc.) are established in years ahead then they can play a round robin for the right to be the D2 qualifier for the final round of the tournament.

One might take issue with how I chose to set up the seedings and I am sure that there are many models out there to choose from. However I feel that the overall structure of the tournament makes a whole lot of sense. Six games is about as big a tournament that these teams can reasonably fit into their already busy schedules. My proposal cuts that by one game to five, and most importantly creates something that I think would be the best thing to happen to Canadian professional Soccer since MLS came north, and that would be the establishment of an Annual National Championship Game.

The single game final is to me the attractive model for both the committed and non committed Canadian Soccer fan. Purists would liken it to the Champions League or World Cup Final and be familiar with the model. Casual fans would be attracted to a format (a single game final) that would be as familiar to Canadian sports fans as the Grey Cup is.

Sponsors would be more likely to get behind this tournament and television ratings would undoubtedly rise. Canadian Soccer has the chance here, if done correctly, to build upon the first three years of the Voyageurs Cup and use it as a springboard to get Canadian club soccer further into the Canadian sports mainstream, a place where our beautiful game definitely belongs!

Comments are always welcomed and appreciated.

[Roogsy]

Don't forget to click on the link fellas...give the man some support on his numbers.

[Roogsy]

I like the blog big man.

An interesting concept. I think it should be looked at.

The games should matter.

[Lucky Strike]

I think it's probably the most sensible option possible that you've outlined. With the addition of a 4th team next year, we can move away from the mini-league format and towards a cup-style format. The mini-league format, though it has its flaws (Like Montreal never beat TFC in 2008 - or ever actually - and still won the NCC), it's probably the best that could be done under the circumstances.

[bgnewf]

I like the blog big man.

An interesting concept. I think it should be looked at.

The games should matter.

Thanks for the props Roogs!

The games should matter indeed.

[Alarius]

I think based on geographical location:
A) Vancouver vs Edmonton (Home&Away)
B) Toronto vs Montreal (Home&Away)

Winner of A vs Winner of B to decide the champion.

[Cas87]

For some reason I think that the CSA will keep the current format (home and away against each opponent) and tweek it to be on tuedays and wednesdays with travel of the MLS and USL/D2 clubs into some consideration.

Then after that they'll be open to different formats. And as for the different format, I agree with Newf with the exception of a two leg final so that both supporters get a home game (especially if its Van City v. TFC) with the higher seed or past champion having choice of home for leg 1 or 2

[Darlofletch]

definitely not a 6 game each round robin next year, that'd be terrible.

two legged semi and a one game final gets my vote for now at least, though i'd love to see it expanded to more clubs in a straight knockout format in the future, many ways to determine who plays who, I'd personally go with a random draw, but this works.

Pedant's corner, this version of the canadian championship has only been going for three years, but the voyageurs cup has been around and awarded for a good few years before tfc existed. and torontonians/tfc fans/toronto sports fans in general wonder why other people hate us.:D

and oh, after their bitching last night/today, i now have no complaints about you pissing on whinycaps fans. respect to the impact though for playing it right.

[Darlofletch]

and oh, would it be wrong to suggest that the one game final be held every year at a neutral venue, wembley style?

The national Soccer Stadium sounds perfect for that role, no?:smilewinkgrin:

[TFC Via Buffalo]

and oh, would it be wrong to suggest that the one game final be held every year at a neutral venue, wembley style?

The national Soccer Stadium sounds perfect for that role, no?:smilewinkgrin:

I see what you did there. And I like it.

[TFC07]

I don't like the idea at all! Every team should at least play against each other once. After all, there's only 4 teams in this tournament.

[TFC07]

and oh, would it be wrong to suggest that the one game final be held every year at a neutral venue, wembley style?

The national Soccer Stadium sounds perfect for that role, no?:smilewinkgrin:

The final should be held between higher seed of two teams in the final. Just imagine Montreal and Vancouver playing at BMO in the finals. How many people will show up to watch that?

[Dunc]

I'd really like it if they expanded it sort of like the FA cup so that in theory anyone could make it up to the final round.

Of course it would have to be regional based up until the latter stages because of travel costs and all that.

[bangersandmash]

I like the idea of expanding it, but I think the CSA would be better served, (as Dunc suggested) by a model like the FA Cup. Having a club side from Saskatchewan playing TFC in the final might cause NA sports purists to skoff, it would do wonders for the game in Saskatchewan.

Have the small sides begin playing regional qualifiers early and then insert the bigger teams later. Suddenly every soccer-playing kid in Canada can dream of CONCACAF Champions League glory!

[Super]

It should be home and away in the final, biggest winner of round one (determined by goal score) gets to finish at home in the final.

[Huyton]

I'd like an FA Cup styled tournament.

It'd be great to see Milltown FC taking on TFC in Milton, for instance.

The final to take place at the previous years winners stadium July 1st.

I'd expect, though, that if Milltown FC won the previous year that it just might be a good idea to move the game to BMO field, to get the revenue!

[Carts]

2011

Toronto FC, as Canada's only 2010 MLS club, and 2010 Champions, are seeded first in the 2011 pool
Vancouver or Montreal are seeded second or third respectively based on their order of finish in the USL/NASL regular season
FC Edmonton, as the newcomers, are slotted into the fourth position
Toronto would play FC Edmonton in a home and away series with the first game in Edmonton and the deciding match played in Toronto. Vancouver and Montreal would do the same and whichever team finished ahead of the other in 2010 would get the second game at home. The winners of these two match-ups would play a one game, winner take all, Championship match at BMO Field, the home stadium of the 2010 Voyageurs Cup Champions.


2012

The Vancouver Whitecaps or Toronto FC are seeded first or Second in 2012 based on their respective finishes in the 2011 MLS regular season
FC Edmonton or the Montreal Impact are seeded third or fourth respectively
The tournament would run in the same five game fashion as 2011, with the final being held in the stadium of the 2011 Cup Winner.


This makes far too much sence for it to be considered... :)

Seriously though, this is a good suggestion that the CSA could take or build from...

Carts...

[TFCUNITED]

As others have already said, do it like the FA Cup and have the final in the previous years winners stadium.

[DichioTFC]

I like the idea. What would you propose for the future if /when more Canadian teams get established that includes a provision for a CSL championship team to gain entry into the tournament as well.

As much as I want TFC to make it, how crazy would it be for the Serbian White Eagles to host Pachuca in a preliminary CONCACAF qualifier?

[DichioTFC]

I'd like an FA Cup styled tournament.

It'd be great to see Milltown FC taking on TFC in Milton, for instance.

The final to take place at the previous years winners stadium July 1st.

I'd expect, though, that if Milltown FC won the previous year that it just might be a good idea to move the game to BMO field, to get the revenue!

FA styled tourney would be a bit tough with the MLS schedule, but it sure as hell would be exciting.

[jloome]

I don't like the idea at all! Every team should at least play against each other once. After all, there's only 4 teams in this tournament.

To me, the compromise would be to keep the current format, but restrict the round-robin to 1 game, then have 1 v 4, 2 v 3 knockout games and a final. It's going to work out to 1 game less than they'd play with a full-round robin, but would give us both a) a guarantee all four teams play each other an b) a final.

[LittleOzzy]

I don't like the idea at all! Every team should at least play against each other once. After all, there's only 4 teams in this tournament.

I agree, I don't like it at all.

It's a 4 team tournament next season and everyone should play everyone home and away. I think the other suggestion would be just too confusing for the casual fan, and if you want this tournament to grow those are the fans they need to go after.

I also don't like the idea of letting lesser teams in. I know it would expand the tournament, but what's the point if the games are just shit? I have no interest in seeing a MLS/NASL team just walk all over some lesser team for 90 minutes.

Keep the format as is and add FC Edmonton, no other changes necessary.

[Huyton]

The US Open Cup (from their web site)

The U.S. Open Cup is a single-elimination tournament, with games tied after regulation being decided in two 15-minute overtime halves. If the score is still tied after overtime, the winner is decided in a penalty kick shootout. The team that advances the furthest from each level except Division I will earn a $10,000 cash prize. The runner-up will take home $50,000, while the champion will collect $100,000. The winner also will have the team’s name engraved on the historic Dewar Challenge Trophy, the oldest trophy in American team sports that is housed in the National Soccer Hall of Fame in Oneonta, N.Y.

2009 Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup Schedule
May 25 Qualifying Deadline
May 27 Pairings Announcement
June 9 First Round: 32 lower division teams enter tournament
June 16 Second Round: 16 Round 1 winners face off
June 30 Third Round: Round 2 winners face eight MLS teams
July 7 Quarterfinals: Round 3 winners
July 21/22 Semifinals: Quarterfinal winners
Sept. 2 Final: Semifinal winners

Composition of participating teams:
8 - Major League Soccer
8 - United Soccer Leagues First Division
8 - United Soccer Leagues Second Division
16 - Amateur (8 USL Premier Development League, 8 USASA regional qualifiers)
Total Number of Teams: 40
Total Number of Games: 39


Currently, eight teams from each level of the American Soccer Pyramid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Soccer_Pyramid) take part in the competition proper, with each league narrowing its delegation separately in the spring before the competition officially begins in the summer. In some cases, additional teams play in qualifying rounds to gain entry. One example is found with MLS clubs, as only the top six from the previous regular season get an automatic bid, while the bottom U.S.-based MLS teams face each other to qualify for the remaining two MLS slots.



So, to do something similar here, starting in 2012:
United Soccer Leagues Premier Development League (PDL) - 7 teams:
Forest City London ON
Toronto Lynx ON
Thunder Bay Chill ON
Ottawa Fury ON
Abbotsford Mariners BC
Vancouver Whitecaps Residency BC
Victoria Highlanders BC

Pacific Coast Soccer League (PCSL) - 8 teams
Athletic Club of BC BC
Fraser Valley Action BC
Kamloops Excel BC
Khalsa Sporting Club BC
Okanagan Challenge BC
Surrey United BC
Vancouver Thunderbirds BC
Victoria United BC
Whitecaps FC Prospects BC

At the next level up:
Canadian Soccer League (CSL) - 13 teams
London City ON
North York Astros ON
St. Catharines Wolves ON
Montreal Impact Academy QC
Brampton Lions ON
TFC Academy ON
York Region Shooters ON
Portugal FC ON
Serbian White Eagles ON
Toronto Croatia ON
Hamilton Croatia ON
Milltown Football Club ON
Brantford Galaxy SC ON

Next up is
USSF Division 2 Professional League (D2 Pro League) - 1 team
Edmonton

Finally, MLS - 3 teams:
Montreal Impact QC
Vancouver Whitecaps FC BC
Toronto FC ON

Which makes for a grand total of 32 teams. Perfect. Maximum of 5 games for the champions.

Seed them if you like...MLS teams plus Edmonton can't play each other until the quarter finals, perhaps.

Academy teams allowed, but players are "cup tied".

Games to be played every other wednesday, starting 1st Wednesday in May, culminating in the final on July 1 (or sooner, if CONCACAF needs to know who is the Canadian entry prior to that).


Sorry for the long post.

[Azerban]

I also don't like the idea of letting lesser teams in. I know it would expand the tournament, but what's the point if the games are just shit? I have no interest in seeing a MLS/NASL team just walk all over some lesser team for 90 minutes.

FA Cup vs League Cup

i know which one is more interesting

[nfitz]

US Open Cup vs Canadian Championship.

I know which one people actually come to watch.

[Huyton]

FA Cup: No meaningless games.

Current Voyageur Cup: The last two games can be meaningless. For example, if TFC had beaten Vancouver in BC this year. Vancouver would have had two games to play and nothing to play for. And neither would their opponents.

[Azerban]

US Open Cup vs Canadian Championship.

I know which one people actually come to watch.


that's more a result of the fact that the american teams don't take it seriously at all unless they stumble into the semis (a few clubs excluded, but most use it as a chance for the reserves to get a run out), and that canadian teams have a much greater thirst to play each other, since it's an otherwise fairly rare or in our case non-existent occurrence

has nothing to do with the format, but nice one :)

[James17930]

I still contend it should be played out the year before so the whole thing isn't squished into a couple of months. That's also the only way you could add a heap more teams (instead of 4 or 6), a la the U.S. Open Cup.

But no one seems to like that idea.

[Huyton]

If it has to be the year before, then so be it. But with 32 pro or semi-pro teams in Canada, it's only 5 games maximum. This years NutCan was four games per team and next year will be six per. There were a total of 6 games this year held over 6 weeks, there'll be 12 next...so hopefully there'll be two games per week. Perhaps one on Tuesday and another on Wednesday.

I like the idea of a truly national championship. I also like the mystique of the FA Cup, where a small team can beat a big one.

It can also mean a substantial amount of revenue for a small team.

[Cashcleaner]

With all due respect, I like the current round-robin format. You see, I'm not so much looking at it from the perspective of what's more entertaining, but rather how can we best determine the superior team as fairly as possible. And the only way to do that is to have each team play every other once home and away.

And now that I'm thinking of it, I kinda wish the NCC stayed the small tourney that is it now. If I were an American soccer fan, I doubt I would really care all that much about the US Open Cup, but it's a very different scenario here in Canada. Perhaps too many teams would dilute the experience? I'm cool with Edmonton taking part and possibly the winner of the CSL, but that would require a format change and I don't know if the pros outweigh the cons on that.

[prizby]

welcome to proposal # 684

welcome also to rejected proposal #684

[Yohan]

To me, the compromise would be to keep the current format, but restrict the round-robin to 1 game, then have 1 v 4, 2 v 3 knockout games and a final. It's going to work out to 1 game less than they'd play with a full-round robin, but would give us both a) a guarantee all four teams play each other an b) a final.
I'm in favour of this format

our lads certainly don't need more games on limited roster...

I also like the FA Cup model, however, revenue sharing needs to be worked out so that it's worth for small clubs to take part in the tournament. otherwise cost of one trip might bankrupt small semi pro clubs.

just curious. how profitable is NCC right now? I dont even know if there is any prize money for the tourney winner?

[Blizzard]

I'm in favour of this format

our lads certainly don't need more games on limited roster...

I also like the FA Cup model, however, revenue sharing needs to be worked out so that it's worth for small clubs to take part in the tournament. otherwise cost of one trip might bankrupt small semi pro clubs.

just curious. how profitable is NCC right now? I dont even know if there is any prize money for the tourney winner?

I can't "source" it but I believe players on the winning team get about $5k each.