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View Full Version : Do we now know why Carver manages in Canada?



Bombonera
06-21-2008, 05:57 PM
I started a thread a couplf of days ago wonering whether he would start Guevara... Everyone said YES! And I agree it was an obvious decision, and he did not make it. The man sat Guevara, Edu, Brennan...played Harmse, cunningham (WHo Robert obvously can't stand), and Dunivant (WHo is actually not terrible, but)

DO we think that we as fans benefit from Carver's rhetorical BS? How dare he bench our best team and as a consequence sacrifice 2 points.

This is our house Damnit! Not his. Protecting it and caring for it is what he gets paid for. Not simply making a point to players who have the priviledge of playing for their country!:taz::taz::taz::taz:

Is this a scarry example of why he is coaching in Canada and not in the Preniership? His EGO is a disgarace!

ManUtd4ever
06-21-2008, 06:02 PM
I'm extremely disappointed with Carver's tactics today as well but the positives have far outweighed the negatives thus far so I'll give JC the benefit of the doubt and trust that he's learned his lesson...

Bombonera
06-21-2008, 06:06 PM
I agree with you, but why should we the fans be made to pay for that level of ignorance.

Whil I may agree that he deserves a pass his time, I don't thin we should sit on the fence wiht this one. He should hear it from us all. THat was insulting!

Pachuco
06-21-2008, 06:10 PM
The fact that we aren't playing another MLS game in Toronto for close to a month, and he benches Guevara, makes me lose every ounce of respect I had for Carver. He just made me do a 360 as to what my opinion of him is. It's a disgrace that Guevara was on the bench. To start Cunnigham over Guevara is sickening.

CretanBull
06-21-2008, 06:21 PM
I think you guys are on crack. I'd explain why, but I have a feeling it wouldn't sink in...

Pachuco
06-21-2008, 06:24 PM
I think you guys are on crack. I'd explain why, but I have a feeling it wouldn't sink in...

really? try and explain it? I'm real curious to know now you would justify Cunningham starting over Guevara. I am not talking about any other players, simply explain to me how Cunny starts over Guevara.

Cambridge_Red
06-21-2008, 06:39 PM
Fuck sakes people relax. We can't win every game, Carver is merely trying to gel the team. They played well last week so why change things? Never letting your bench players play will result in future poor performances when we actually need them to start ie. injuries and internationals. Just have patience and realize this team is still developing.

giambac
06-21-2008, 06:41 PM
Mark this date and game on your Calanders. Because of Coach Carver we lost 2 points from todays draw. If TFC ends up missing the playoffs by 1 or 2 points you can thank the EGOTISTIC and selfish coach. I mean 5 of their best players who were on international duties came back today and he didn't play one.
I mean you have your best player in Guevera on the bench. You also have your Captainn on the bench and the rookie of the year last year in Edu on the bench.

It seems that Carver is penalizing these players for playing for their countries. It's not their fault that the MLS doesn't break for these international games. It is their duty/obligation to play for their countries.

It's time for Carver to put his bullshit ego and attitude aside. He caused us the game today. I wish he would go back to coaching in the English league.

His players especially Guevera will lose respect for a bonehead coach. It will cause more problems down the road. Guevera already has a hot temper and not playing him won't help matters.

Now I know why the English national team doesn't want an English coach and they have settled for an ITALIAN.

Pachuco
06-21-2008, 06:42 PM
Fuck sakes people relax. We can't win every game, Carver is merely trying to gel the team. They played well last week so why change things? Never letting your bench players play will result in future poor performances when we actually need them to start ie. injuries and internationals. Just have patience and realize this team is still developing.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NOT WINNING TODAY. If we won, I would still be pissed that Guevara didn't start. Do you think LA would ever put Beckham on the bench because he went off to play an international game? NO. Do you think that Carver would've benched Guevara if today was a playoff game? NO. He highly underrated KC and he should hear a little bit of complaint for it.

Pachuco
06-21-2008, 06:44 PM
Mark this date and game on your Calanders. Because of Coach Carver we lost 2 points from todays draw. If TFC ends up missing the playoffs by 1 or 2 points you can thank the EGOTISTIC and selfish coach. I mean 5 of their best players who were on international duties came back today and he didn't play one.
I mean you have your best player in Guevera on the bench. You also have your Captainn on the bench and the rookie of the year last year in Edu on the bench.

It seems that Carver is penalizing these players for playing for their countries. It's not their fault that the MLS doesn't break for these international games. It is their duty/obligation to play for their countries.

It's time for Carver to put his bullshit ego and attitude aside. He caused us the game today. I wish he would go back to coaching in the English league.

His players especially Guevera will lose respect for a bonehead coach. It will cause more problems down the road. Guevera already has a hot temper and not playing him won't help matters.

Now I know why the English national team doesn't want an English coach and they have settled for an ITALIAN.

I agree with everything you said which is rare, until the point where you said this

Now I know why the English national team doesn't want an English coach and they have settled for an ITALIAN

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 06:47 PM
Relax guys. I agree that once our best XI were on the pitch it was a different game, but a lot of these guys do need a rest. Maybe that's what Carver was doing. We don't know. But I wouldn't jump all over him for it. He has gotten us here...I am not going to start thinking I could do a better job.

Cambridge_Red
06-21-2008, 06:49 PM
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NOT WINNING TODAY. If we won, I would still be pissed that Guevara didn't start. Do you think LA would ever put Beckham on the bench because he went off to play an international game? NO. Do you think that Carver would've benched Guevara if today was a playoff game? NO. He highly underrated KC and he should hear a little bit of complaint for it.

THANKS FOR THE CAPS ! douche. He didn't play Guevara because he still had faith in Cunningham to get results. Although I don't think it was a good idea he had to go with what was working. I also think hes trying to showcase Cunnigham to trade. I fucking hate people who jump all over something as soon as it goes bad. Fucking discgrace if you call yourself a supporter and backstab the manager at first chance.

Jack
06-21-2008, 06:52 PM
Why would Brennan start today? He arrived from Montreal in the morning and he played last night so it only makes sense he would be on the bench.

Most of these guys just got back with the team in the last couple of days and haven't practiced much with the team.

You think Carver's egotistical? Your fucking coach is supposed to be confident in himself and his decisions.

To be honest, you could tell that Edu and Guevara hadn't played with their teammates in a long time. They were out of synch on the pitch today.

It's one fucking game and you guys are all over the coach. I know the game today was tough to watch, but your frail loyalty is very, very questionable.

I have faith in the man. He's done a great job and look at Toronto FC undefeated at home! Last year we couldn't even fucking dream about that.

MFBODD
06-21-2008, 06:53 PM
The fact that we aren't playing another MLS game in Toronto for close to a month, and he benches Guevara, makes me lose every ounce of respect I had for Carver. He just made me do a 360 as to what my opinion of him is. It's a disgrace that Guevara was on the bench. To start Cunnigham over Guevara is sickening.

Doing a 360 will put you in the same spot as you started.

Oldtimer
06-21-2008, 06:54 PM
A little harsh, aren't we?

It's specifically because Carver coached in England that he has the "keep the shirt" policy. It would work there because the depth is much greater. It doesn't work in MLS where the drop-off from the starting 11 is much steeper.

Does that mean that I agree with this policy? Not if he keeps it to this extreme. He should have played Guevara and Brennan and benched Harmse, and alternated Dichio and Cunningham. I don't mind him playing Edwards over Sutton, although Sutton is better IMO.

It's true that he under-rated KC, but the bigger problem is his "keep the shirt" policy which won't work over here. I agree that we lost 2 points due to managerial decisions.

I still think he's a good coach. He just has to learn MLS better.

Jack
06-21-2008, 06:55 PM
Ok... Pachuco chill out.

ag futbol
06-21-2008, 06:56 PM
Hey, it wasn't his best game coaching but overall he's been a refreshing change from what we saw last year. If he continues to gaf like this then i'll have an issue. For now, i'll just call it a mistake.

No big deal.

Pachuco
06-21-2008, 06:58 PM
Ok... Pachuco chill out.

I will, I don't like personal insults as you can tell. I didn't insult anyone on this board until I was called a duche.

Nerepis
06-21-2008, 06:58 PM
Relax guys. I agree that once our best XI were on the pitch it was a different game, but a lot of these guys do need a rest. Maybe that's what Carver was doing. We don't know. But I wouldn't jump all over him for it. He has gotten us here...I am not going to start thinking I could do a better job.

Exactly, like it or not we will have a lot of call-ups in the future and we need the bench players to step up. If they don't gain some confidence, we will be a middle of the table team. We still came away today with a point, Carver can revamp the team for the next game with the best 11 men. Players will walk through fire for a coach they trust, and Carver went along way today to earn their trust. No it didn't all work out but he said what he was going to do and he did it.

giambac
06-21-2008, 07:02 PM
What really upsets me most about Carver is that he thinks he is bigger than the team himself. It almost seems like he is trying to purposely do the opposite of what the norm would do. It's almost like he has the attitude that no one is going to tell him what to do. He knows todays move was controversial and that it would drum up alot of attention. But this is exactly what this egotistic coach wants. He wants attention on himmself. The same thing happened when he complained about the officiating and made the stupidiest comment " I may just back my bags and fly back to england if they don't like my coaching style in the MLS".. Well fuck go, good riddance we don't need him here. I mean Toronto is famous for bad coaching/managament with the leafs/ Raptors/Blue Jays. Well today Carver took it to another level.

Like I said he lost us 2 points today. If we miss the palyoffs becasue of 1 or 2 points or if we get a bad seeding becasue of 1 or 2 points please remember this day.

Thanks Carver

Jack
06-21-2008, 07:05 PM
Relax giambac. A lot of coaches come out like that to deflect the heat off their players. Jose Mourinho is an expert at it.

I repeat: Undefeated at home.

That is all I'll say about John Carver. The man is a great manager.

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 07:11 PM
I think we do need him here. He knows what he is doing and the track record proves it. How do we know Guevara didnt tell him beforehand he didn't have 90 minutes in him? And are you guys seriously not taking into account that Jimmy played last night?

Besides. KC has been underperforming. Maybe Carver was trying to play the guys who haven't been getting minutes in an effort to keep them in game shape should we need them later on...which with more callups coming, we will.

Relax guys. Had we lost the game, maybe we'd have reason to be upset.

Jamaicanadian
06-21-2008, 07:11 PM
WOW!
Said it B4 and I'll say it again.....Some of you peeps are over the top............Makes for interesting reading tho...:)

tfc_4_ever
06-21-2008, 07:11 PM
Relax giambac. A lot of coaches come out like that to deflect the heat off their players. Jose Mourinho is an expert at it.

I repeat: Undefeated at home.

That is all I'll say about John Carver. The man is a great manager.

QFT

We are undefeated at home.

Jack
06-21-2008, 07:16 PM
I will, I don't like personal insults as you can tell. I didn't insult anyone on this board until I was called a duche.

I understand.

Insults are not needed.

We're all passionate and we all love TFC, so let's not lose sight of that, people.

TFC John
06-21-2008, 07:16 PM
The only reason we got a draw today is Kansas is an absolute shit team. They missed a bunch of chances and they kept us in the game. Carver has no one to blame but himself. To imagine that our team can now go to New England and grab 3 points on the road is ridiculous. This game will bite us in the ass before the season is over.

toonarmy
06-21-2008, 07:17 PM
Carver's tactics today were consistent with the type of attitude he's trying to foster at the club, and in the long term, he made a very positive move today. Even if we lost two points, I agree with his decision.

WHITEY
06-21-2008, 07:19 PM
WOW!
Said it B4 and I'll say it again.....Some of you peeps are over the top............Makes for interesting reading tho...:)

LOL, I was thinking the exact same thing; "over the top" is more polite than what I was thinking...

giambac
06-21-2008, 07:19 PM
Relax giambac. A lot of coaches come out like that to deflect the heat off their players. Jose Mourinho is an expert at it.

I repeat: Undefeated at home.

That is all I'll say about John Carver. The man is a great manager.


Jack,

I agree with just about everything you say on this forum.

However on this topic I'm steaming and we are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree.

I mean this is the same Coach who earlier in the season was criticizing the MLS and tellin the world how TFC would have a tough uphill battlle with all their palyers being called for international duty. He is the same guy who said TFC would be at a disadvantage losing so many players while teams like DC unite dnot losing any.

So what does he do? His palyers are back and he sits them. He contradicts his own statements.

I don't ever want to hear anymore excuses from him when the players are called agian to play for their countries. He better not use the excuse that his team is undermanned. I won't buy it.

I know we still are unbeatan at home but I had this game circled as being very important. We could easily have been 7-4-2 rather than 6-4-3. We could have been second in the East.

Next week we play on the road where the points are difficult to come by for this team. You know that. This is why you have to get all the points you can on home. Carver just mailed away 2 easy points. You can't do this. Not with a tam that can't win on the road.

Jack
06-21-2008, 07:22 PM
I'll give you that. The game left a bad taste in my mouth and I prefer to see our best team out there on a regular basis.

Still, I maintain some faith in Carver as he's been a pretty straight guy in everything that he's done.

I'll agree to disagree then. :D

mlsintoronto
06-21-2008, 07:24 PM
He just made me do a 360 as to what my opinion of him is.


soooo, you're where you started? :rolleyes:

brad
06-21-2008, 07:29 PM
Because of Coach Carver we lost 2 points from todays draw. If TFC ends up missing the playoffs by 1 or 2 points you can thank the EGOTISTIC and selfish coach.

If we miss the playoffs by one or two points you can blame lousy away form.

Blixa
06-21-2008, 07:30 PM
I like Carver, but it's hard to see the logic of starting Harmse over Guevara under any circumstances.

joel
06-21-2008, 07:38 PM
wow there are a lot of stupid people here.

pepher
06-21-2008, 07:38 PM
he'll get us to the playoffs then really show what he can do tactically. give over!

Bombonera
06-21-2008, 07:40 PM
Jack: YOu are right, we are undefeated at home. However, we do not have the luxury of learing experinces like this one... Agreed that we are that much better than last year, but what are the chances that we could be worse? NONE.

Carvers got SOME players. His ego can't get in the way. Moreover, good mangers are those who know how to size up environents and opportunities. in that context, a wion today was low hanging fruit. No good manager leves that kind of opportunity on the table.

Wiht all due respect, I think our outrage is unbelievably justified.

Heathen
06-21-2008, 07:42 PM
...Now I know why the English national team doesn't want an English coach and they have settled for an ITALIAN.

And that's what it's all about isn't it, you've just been waiting for an opportunity to find something to bitch about with Carver because of where he's from.

ag futbol
06-21-2008, 07:44 PM
Jack: YOu are right, we are undefeated at home. However, we do not have the luxury of learing experinces like this one... Agreed that we are that much better than last year, but what are the chances that we could be worse? NONE.


ahh but i think we're getting too hung up on that point. If we had lost against columbus and won this game. We'd have blemished our undefeated record, but we'd have more points.

brad
06-21-2008, 07:47 PM
Wow, this board depresses me sometimes. We played poorly, but kept a clean sheet, and are still undefeated at home. I can't imagine what this place will be like when we go through an actual rough patch.

Carver made a judgment call, he was off, we dropped points. Big deal, it happens in football. It happens to managers at the top. Ask Scolari about it. Ask Donadoni about it. We didn't look much better after we made our 3 subs - we were disjointed and out of step with each other. He started with the same starting 11 that beat Coloardo very convincingly a week ago.

Carver has completely turned this team around - he's got us playing real football instead of Timbits style kick and chase we played last year. He's building a competitive team, we are miles a head of were we were last year. After one 'mistake' (I hesitate to call sticking with a squad that's been playing well a mistake) and people are turning on him. Give me a break.

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 07:48 PM
QFFT Brad...

Preach on brotha! :thumbsup:

Blizzard
06-21-2008, 07:50 PM
I like Carver, but it's hard to see the logic of starting Harmse over Guevara under any circumstances.

He didn't start Harmse over Guevara. He started Harmse over Edu. He started Cunningham over Guevara (and Dunny over Brennan).

Blizzard
06-21-2008, 07:50 PM
soooo, you're where you started? :rolleyes:

I think he's getting dizzy ... and so am I! This is just nuts!

brad
06-21-2008, 07:52 PM
Moreover, good mangers are those who know how to size up environents and opportunities. in that context, a wion today was low hanging fruit. No good manager leves that kind of opportunity on the table.

Interesting theory you have there. I assume you don't rate Scolari then? Switzerland were most certainly low hanging fruit, and if he hadn't rested most of his starting 11, Portugal wouldn't have faced Germany and quite possible would still be in Euro.

More likely, Carver figured the the starting 11 that convincingly beat Colorado would be able to beat Kansas, and I can't say I blame him for that.

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 07:54 PM
Funny...I thought how we would rate Carver would be whether he wins more than he loses...not whether he wins ALL the games.

I guess I was wrong.

Toronto_Bhoy
06-21-2008, 07:54 PM
This entire site is becoming more farsical every week...Gobi is right.

I used to enjoy reading intelligent opinions of knowledgable football fans but it appears that is no longer the case.

The football grade level here is falling like a stone...

JonO
06-21-2008, 07:56 PM
Coach made a decision to go with the best XI in his view. How many of us know how tired the returning players are? We have a busy July coming up. Was disappointed by the game to day, but the blame lays on the players as well as the coach. And that ref seemed to be one of the worst we have had this year too... :(

Blizzard
06-21-2008, 07:59 PM
Coach made a decision to go with the best XI in his view. How many of us know how tired the returning players are? We have a busy July coming up. Was disappointed by the game to day, but the blame lays on the players as well as the coach. And that ref seemed to be one of the worst we have had this year too... :(

Was this the first time we've seen that particular referee? He was .... mysterious.

As for TFC, the blame can easily be shared. I wanted more of Amado too but I think much of what I've read here is stunningly inane.

NateDoGG
06-21-2008, 08:03 PM
i for one think carver is an asshole and his rotation policy sucks
but we are not losing at home, and that means alot

joel
06-21-2008, 08:04 PM
We get a draw and wow I am astounded with the quantity and quality of the posts here.

olegunnar
06-21-2008, 08:06 PM
KC didn't hold us to a draw...Carver did
It's disappointing. There's no way that he rates cunnigham over Guevara or Harmse ofer Edu. It's pure ego. It's not like they're tired (like perhaps brennan) since they haven't played in a week.
It's crap.
KC is the worst team in the east and Carver held us to a draw. Now we have to take our lame ass road record to Foxboro where in 2 games we're 0 for 7 against.
These 2 points missed are all on Carver. Very dissapointing.

Keyman
06-21-2008, 08:06 PM
John Carver has done an absolutely amazing job managing this team for the entire year. We are lightyears better than we were last season, because of the tactical decisions, attention to detail, and in game decisions that Carver has brought to this team. The decesions today definitely made me scratch my head, it's very rare that you see a coach sit his best player. However, I think it also shows a lot of respect towards the players, and it also shows that Carver is a man of his word.

He has said multiple times that if the team he fields wins, they will start in the next game. We were coming off one of our best performances of the year against Colorado, and the fact that he still kept his word, shows why Carver is so well respected in the dressing room. These types of decisions do nothing but good things for the team, it shows players that they can lose their spot easily. If there is an internal competetive nature between the players, that is healthy, it will push players to perform in training and on game day. This healthy competition will only push our team to improve every week, and by the end of the season, we will see how beneficial his decisions have been.

Guevara chose not to play with Toronto, it was his decision. He still got to play, and was pretty damn good when he came onto the pitch. I would have liked to have seen him start, just him, not anyone else, but I will trust Carver for the reasons already stated. He has guided us to a very impressive record, we are undedefeated at home, and we are one of the best teams in the league. John Carver is a fantastic manager.

giambac
06-21-2008, 08:06 PM
I honestly think Carver has had to much time on his hands.

Here is my take on this.

carver has been watching to much of the 2008 Euro's on TV. He saw Portugal, Croatia, an dthe Netheralnds rest most of theri starters in their 3 match of the group play.. So carver figues if Scolari, Van Basten do it it must be good. Waht Carver didn't realize is taht the game was meaningless for those 23 nations. For TFC it was 3 points up for grabbs.

Oh yea i guess everyone on this forum realizes that portugal, croatia and netherlands lost their QF match, the game after they rested their starters. What will happen to TCc the game after they rested their starters, in New England? It can get ugly.

Thanks Carver

olegunnar
06-21-2008, 08:06 PM
We get a draw and wow I am astounded with the quantity and quality of the posts here.

A draw against a shithole team.

olegunnar
06-21-2008, 08:09 PM
Also
It's obvious his cavalier attitidude towards todays game (ie KC is so shit we can afford to play a B team) rubbed off on the rest of the team and they just walked around as if the 3 points were a mere formality.
Very disappointing.
Remember this result next week when we lose 0-2...or at the end of the year if we're in a bad spot relative to the playoffs.

Jack
06-21-2008, 08:16 PM
Also
It's obvious his cavalier attitidude towards todays game (ie KC is so shit we can afford to play a B team) rubbed off on the rest of the team and they just walked around as if the 3 points were a mere formality.
Very disappointing.
Remember this result next week when we lose 0-2...or at the end of the year if we're in a bad spot relative to the playoffs.

What about all the absolutely shite performances on the road?

You can single out this result all you want, but the players are also horrible on the road.

olegunnar
06-21-2008, 08:22 PM
What about all the absolutely shite performances on the road?

You can single out this result all you want, but the players are also horrible on the road.

But that's the point. We have 18 points and home...3 on the road. It's imperative we get max points at home while we figure out how to get points on the road.

We have the worst team in the east at home...and the coach tries to get cute.

2 points down the tube. For no good reason.

Chevy
06-21-2008, 08:28 PM
he'll get us to the playoffs then really show what he can do tactically. give over!

I hoping that you're right. I'm also hoping that he's looking at the big picture and spreading out playing time in June will help us significantly later in the season.

olegunnar
06-21-2008, 08:30 PM
I hoping that you're right. I'm also hoping that he's looking at the big picture and spreading out playing time in June will help us significantly later in the season.

No offense but do you really believe that cliche?

Do you really think that guevera playing 30 minutes instead of 90 was worht throwing away two points?
Do you really think resting Edu today will mean anything when he's in China all August?

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 08:31 PM
Have we considered something? That perhaps he genuinely believed that this XI could have beaten KC? I think it was possible...and perhaps on any other day we could have won.

In the meantime, Carver has to look down the road and get this team prepared for 2 more Champions League qualifiers and a string of games where call ups are going to affect the team again.

I am ok with this decision. We are truly going to hit a difficult period come late July and August and he needs everyone to be game ready.

And our unbeaten streak is still intact.

I will sleep just fine tonight.

Cambridge_Red
06-21-2008, 08:35 PM
I will, I don't like personal insults as you can tell. I didn't insult anyone on this board until I was called a duche.

Sorry dude not here to start fights thats just ridiculous. I just don't like people typing in bloody uppercase when I've been capable of reading for many years now. I understand your frustation, but calling out the manager after just one poor home performance is highly questionable.

Daveisonfire
06-21-2008, 08:36 PM
WOW!
Said it B4 and I'll say it again.....Some of you peeps are over the top............Makes for interesting reading tho...:)

LOL agreed!

Kayed
06-21-2008, 08:42 PM
whiny little bitches,
shut the fuck up.

S_D
06-21-2008, 08:45 PM
We get a draw and wow I am astounded with the quantity and the lack of quality posts here.

Fixed your post :D

Good lord guys (and gals?) you have to lighten up. a 0-0 draw isn't the end of the world. We may have dropped 2 points but we may not have either. Assuming we will automatically win with Guevarra on the pitch is a bit over the top. If that was the case, we would have a pretty decent road record don't you think?

Why not try and look at the bright side? A clean sheet, Our D is looking pretty good....Carver has got them working together nicely, Harmse did well today as did Dunnivant, Robert and Ricketts made some pretty decent runs and feeds. And in the post game interview, Carver said without saying it that Cunny is done and it is time to make an investment in someone who can score.

And don't forget to look at what KC did. They shut down Dichio effectively and caused a lot of havok in the midfield.

Look on the bright side of things and just be glad:

1) we aren't Chicago...a good team that is dropping games(not tying) to teams they shouldn't AND will have to give us a nice player for Mcbride's rights. :cool:
2) we aren't the Red Balls... a team with a good finisher who is injured and nothing else on the team.

joel
06-21-2008, 08:49 PM
Also
It's obvious his cavalier attitidude towards todays game (ie KC is so shit we can afford to play a B team) rubbed off on the rest of the team and they just walked around as if the 3 points were a mere formality.
Very disappointing.
Remember this result next week when we lose 0-2...or at the end of the year if we're in a bad spot relative to the playoffs.

really? the same team won 3-1 last week, you are slagging a 'B' team that played great last week, you have a short memory.

Cambridge_Red
06-21-2008, 08:53 PM
really? the same team won 3-1 last week, you are slagging a 'B' team that played great last week, you have a short memory.

Come back next week when we've won, you wont have to argue a stupid argument.

olegunnar
06-21-2008, 08:54 PM
really? the same team won 3-1 last week, you are slagging a 'B' team that played great last week, you have a short memory.

Coffee is for closers.
we dopped 2 points at home against the worst team in the East. If you're happy with that good for you but it's not the mentality of anyone that's ever won anything.
Maybe we'll get a participation ribbon though and orange wedges.

jloome
06-21-2008, 08:54 PM
I agree with the aforementioned whiny bitches comment. The man is letting his players know that they won't be kept out of the first team because of reputations, that the man who plays well, stays.

Whether we have the depth is arguable, but the reality is the same team that didn't score for 57 minutes today before the subs started scored three last week against a tougher team than KC. So was it some kind of crazy risk, or automatically flushing two points? Hardly.

Lighten the fuck up, people. We took a point, we haven't lost at home all season and we're on pace to make the playoffs, with the imminent prospect of a striker arriving. Stop overreacting.

EDIT: Oh, and prepare your usual apologies for over-reacting, because a semi-rotational policy is going to come in handy come Olympics time, when we WON'T have a group of players who feel like disgruntled lifetime benchers on the field.

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 09:01 PM
I agree with the aforementioned whiny bitches comment. The man is letting his players know that they won't be kept out of the first team because of reputations, that the man who plays well, stays.

Whether we have the depth is arguable, but the reality is the same team that didn't score for 57 minutes today before the subs started scored three last week against a tougher team than KC. So was it some kind of crazy risk, or automatically flushing two points? Hardly.

Lighten the fuck up, people. We took a point, we haven't lost at home all season and we're on pace to make the playoffs, with the imminent prospect of a striker arriving. Stop overreacting.

EDIT: Oh, and prepare your usual apologies for over-reacting, because a semi-rotational policy is going to come in handy come Olympics time, when we WON'T have a group of players who feel like disgruntled lifetime benchers on the field.

Thank you Jloome...

And now that we only drew today, Carver has the ability and justification to change things up.

Blizzard
06-21-2008, 09:01 PM
I agree with the aforementioned whiny bitches comment. The man is letting his players know that they won't be kept out of the first team because of reputations, that the man who plays well, stays.

Whether we have the depth is arguable, but the reality is the same team that didn't score for 57 minutes today before the subs started scored three last week against a tougher team than KC. So was it some kind of crazy risk, or automatically flushing two points? Hardly.

Lighten the fuck up, people. We took a point, we haven't lost at home all season and we're on pace to make the playoffs, with the imminent prospect of a striker arriving. Stop overreacting.

EDIT: Oh, and prepare your usual apologies for over-reacting, because a semi-rotational policy is going to come in handy come Olympics time, when we WON'T have a group of players who feel like disgruntled lifetime benchers on the field.

Good point re the international absences that are to come. We've just finished a bit of a nightmare and soon we'll be stuck in another one and when that time comes, we'll be thrilled and relieved that players like Harmse and Dunny have had some first team time and do feel like part of this team.

SteeltownBhoy
06-21-2008, 09:05 PM
Ok... Pachuco chill out.

Why would you like him to confirm to some Red Patch Boys inner circle Code of Conduct? He is completely right.

You keep drinking the Kool Aid CAPTAIN RED PATCH.

S_D
06-21-2008, 09:08 PM
Yes, thank you Jloome.


Good point re the international absences that are to come. We've just finished a bit of a nightmare and soon we'll be stuck in another one and when that time comes, we'll be thrilled and relieved that players like Harmse and Dunny have had some first team time and do feel like part of this team.

And can make a good contribution as they did today.

Oblio2
06-21-2008, 09:12 PM
For fucks sake, it's one game. Get over it. Last week Carver was God...now you shit all over him. How childish

Blizzard
06-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Yes, thank you Jloome.



And can make a good contribution as they did today.

Good point. They played solidly today. No, they weren't spectacular but certainly we wouldn't have been expecting them to be spectacular. They did their job and when Carver felt he needed a bit more, he made adjustments.

Besides, did we really want Brennan playing a full match today after play a half for Canada last night?

B

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 09:14 PM
Besides, did we really want Brennan playing a full match today after play a half for Canada last night?

Apparently we do!

WHITEY
06-21-2008, 09:16 PM
The three guys got subbed in at the 55 minute mark or there abouts; with KC being at the bottom of the East and if they're as shit as their record indicates, should 35 minutes not have been more than ample time for the boys to find a way to win? All they had to do was win by one goal to earn a victory, no?

Cashcleaner
06-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Can't believe how easily supporters here turn a full 360 degrees. Sure the starting XI wasn't what we were expecting, but I invite anyone who think they can do a better job to go right ahead and submit their resumes to TFC. It was a draw. Not a great game, granted. But Carver has plenty of reasons to field the squad his way. Who are we to know the intimate details of the players and their current shape?

andyc
06-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Wow - Way to loose total grasp of perspective gentlemen....

Firstly remember last year with MoJo coaching... nuff said

Secondly today was tough to watch be we're still unbeaten at home with only 2 goals against.

Third - How can you call Carver egotisical?? He stuck by his promise to his secondary players that if they performed well they would stay in the team. Did we perform well last week? Hell yes. Did hey play the same guys?? Hell yes. Is this egotistical? No fucking way. He is developing competition and team spirit in the squad. Didn't we ALL whine about a lack of depth last year??

I was disappointed that our "first choice" players didn't start today but I did respect Carver for the tough decisions he made.

Egotistical no. Ethical yes.

SteeltownBhoy
06-21-2008, 09:29 PM
Egotistical no. Ethical yes.

What the Fu*ck does ethics have to do with Professional Sports??????????

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 09:31 PM
It's called loyalty.

If the players don't trust the man they play for, he loses them.

Anyone who knows anything about professional sports knows that much.

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 09:32 PM
Can't believe how easily supporters here turn a full 360 degrees.

I think you mean 180 my friend...LOL!

toonarmy
06-21-2008, 09:32 PM
Wow - Way to loose total grasp of perspective gentlemen....

Firstly remember last year with MoJo coaching... nuff said

Secondly today was tough to watch be we're still unbeaten at home with only 2 goals against.

Third - How can you call Carver egotisical?? He stuck by his promise to his secondary players that if they performed well they would stay in the team. Did we perform well last week? Hell yes. Did hey play the same guys?? Hell yes. Is this egotistical? No fucking way. He is developing competition and team spirit in the squad. Didn't we ALL whine about a lack of depth last year??

I was disappointed that our "first choice" players didn't start today but I did respect Carver for the tough decisions he made.

Egotistical no. Ethical yes.

Well said. Let's also not forget that we're three games from the half way point and we only have five points less than we did all of last year. To get worked up over a 0-0 draw when we've improved so much this year is a little over the top.

We broke the league record for not scoring last year, and if we get shut out once this year, we call for the coach's head. Sheesh.

andyc
06-21-2008, 09:34 PM
This was a response to Steeltownboy...

?? Is that a serious question?? Have you ever managed people?? Keeping the team spirit and trust in the dressing room has a great deal to do with behaving in a consistent and ethical manner.

Talk to any of the players last year about Mo's approach to the players and you'll see the importance of ethics in professional sports...

noochie
06-21-2008, 09:35 PM
pass the popcorn... this thread rocks! and oh yeah... fire everyone! I want a whole new team... hurry up Chicago and give us Rolfe :)

Cashcleaner
06-21-2008, 09:39 PM
I think you mean 180 my friend...LOL!

Math was never my strong suit. :D

twistedchinaman
06-21-2008, 09:51 PM
Yeah....Cunningham before Guevara...when did El Lobo get back?

I don't know, but starting Cunningham ahead of someone who was on fire against KC the last time seems...well, strange.

MUFC_Niagara
06-21-2008, 10:06 PM
Get off the board because you know nothing.1) The team that has CARRIED us while some of our players have been on international duty deserve to start2) As a coach, I do the same thing, go with the players that are producing....3-1 and our best performance of the season last weekend and we are questioning why he started the same lineup today??? Reward them for playing well!!!3) The idiots on this board complaining watch from the stands, if you have better tactics than JC then call Mo....wankers!!!

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 10:08 PM
Ok...we don't need 3-4 Carver bashing threads and by the same token, let's not do the same with Carver praising threads.

Carver has turned this team around. Real fans know this. Let's hope the panicky pansies realize the same.

noochie
06-21-2008, 10:09 PM
Carver is your father. Yes, all of you.

MUFC_Niagara
06-21-2008, 10:11 PM
Ok...we don't need 3-4 Carver bashing threads and by the same token, let's not do the same with Carver praising threads.

Carver has turned this team around. Real fans know this. Let's hope the panicky pansies realize the same.

Agreed....but i've reached my snapping point with the whinging bullshit after matches....the board is the worse because of it!!!

MUFC_Niagara
06-21-2008, 10:12 PM
ok....that was my rant....mods can delete the thread now

sidney
06-21-2008, 10:13 PM
On balance Carver's wonderful. No reason, however, to not criticize something/some policy/decision that warrants criticism. Nothing wrong with that. A board is not supposed to simply be a praise-fest. You have to take the good with the bad

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 10:15 PM
True...but most posters need lessons in:

1) Keeping it to ONE thread.
2) Be reasonable in your criticism.
3) Have facts and proof to back up your criticism!

Then we can have a balanced board. Not one that swings from one end to the other with an off game or a good game.

djking2
06-21-2008, 10:20 PM
Well said. Let's also not forget that we're three games from the half way point and we only have five points less than we did all of last year. To get worked up over a 0-0 draw when we've improved so much this year is a little over the top.

We broke the league record for not scoring last year, and if we get shut out once this year, we call for the coach's head. Sheesh.

Actually two games from halfway and 4 points less but I get your point. One thing Carver has succeeded in doing in 4 months is taking a fan base that was happy to tie last year and turning them into a mob that wants blood when we don't win. That's rather impressive I think

djking2
06-21-2008, 10:23 PM
One other thing. Pachuco sits right behind me and he never stopped chanting all day today. Just like very other day. So make sure you get that seat and row number right when you come after him eh :)

bhoybobby
06-21-2008, 10:27 PM
Carver's o.k. Cunningham's useless, just played himself off the team, what a tit, Robert's a lazy vagina & Ricketts is inconsistent.

flatpicker
06-21-2008, 10:28 PM
Carver's o.k. Cunningham's useless, just played himself off the team, what a tit, Robert's a lazy vagina & Ricketts is inconsistent.

I thought Ricketts created several good chances today.

noochie
06-21-2008, 10:31 PM
One other thing. Pachuco sits right behind me and he never stopped chanting all day today. Just like very other day. So make sure you get that seat and row number right when you come after him eh :)

I have heard he has a posse as well, challengers beware :hand:

ensco
06-21-2008, 10:40 PM
Remember this? A bunch of us couldn't understand why Guevara didn't go to Houston. Two weeks ago [the day before the Houston game], in the Sun, Carver said the following: "We might still try to get (Guevara) there for Sunday. It's not easy getting in touch with people when they're in Honduras, if that's where he is."

I posted the following link, which shows that Honduras had over 1 million cellphones 4 years ago....
http://www.telegeography.com/cu/article.php?article_id=8041&email=html

Could it be that Guevara is in Carver's doghouse, not because Amado chose to play for his country, but because he was unreasonably out of touch during the last 4 weeks, and didn't show sufficient interest in his club when he could have done so?

Blizzard
06-21-2008, 10:40 PM
I have heard he has a posse as well, challengers beware :hand:

Really? He has a posse? Funny. I thought he was a guy. :D

jloome
06-21-2008, 10:43 PM
Remember this? Two weeks ago, in the Sun, Carver said the following: "We might still try to get (Guevara) there for Sunday. It's not easy getting in touch with people when they're in Honduras, if that's where he is.

I posted the following link, which shows that Honduras had over 1 million cellphones 4 years ago....
http://www.telegeography.com/cu/article.php?article_id=8041&email=html

Could it be that Guevara was/is in Carver's doghouse, not because Amado chose to play for his country, but because he was unreasonably out of touch during the last 4 weeks?

Yeah, I got that from it, too. Add in the fact that he's making well under DP-area money and Carver's comments about "managing" Amado's reputation when we first got him, and this one smacks of "short leash" to me.

giambac
06-21-2008, 10:44 PM
Get off the board because you know nothing.1) The team that has CARRIED us while some of our players have been on international duty deserve to start2) As a coach, I do the same thing, go with the players that are producing....3-1 and our best performance of the season last weekend and we are questioning why he started the same lineup today??? Reward them for playing well!!!3) The idiots on this board complaining watch from the stands, if you have better tactics than JC then call Mo....wankers!!!


Well something to consider about today's player selections.

i just heard on a radio clip that Guevera expressed some nasty words to coach carver about an hour after the game. This can be the beginning of some nasty stuff in the clubhouse.

Thanks carver.

Bombonera
06-21-2008, 10:44 PM
We have a decent team. ANyone who can use last year to justify stating tast todays lost 2 points are unimportant i the grand scheme of things is out of his or her mind.

Olegunner, keep telling them how it is!

Oh, and by the way, july is goig to be unbelievably challenging in every way. THat only makes the 2 points that musch more important, and todays redilcuous decisons re:the starting (And playing for 55+mins...) that much more insulting.

noochie
06-21-2008, 10:50 PM
Well something to consider about today's player selections.

i just heard on a radio clip that Guevera expressed some nasty words to coach carver about an hour after the game. This can be the beginning of some nasty stuff in the clubhouse.

Thanks carver.

source?

GingerNinja
06-21-2008, 10:51 PM
Someone said on the first page that Carver is the reason that we only got one point today. I'd say the bastard ref/linesmen had a lot to do about not getting 2 more points.

One of the most unfair officiating jobs I have ever seen!

Bombonera
06-21-2008, 10:58 PM
THe man is a star at home and was in the MLS. Sititn on the bench in Toronto is sure to sit well with a guy with an ego (ad latin to boot..)
Nobody sould be surprised.. ANd if anyone thinks that playing while Robert is on the file is a sustainable idea, they should quietly log off...NOW.

Bombonera
06-21-2008, 10:59 PM
Apologies...Playing cunnigham while Robert... The two can't be on the same field...

noochie
06-21-2008, 11:01 PM
That and I am sure everyone was frustrated after the performance today... this stuff must happen all of the time in the dressing room. Give 'em a week of training to work it out.

noochie
06-21-2008, 11:02 PM
Apologies...Playing cunnigham while Robert... The two can't be on the same field...

I get the feeling they won't be for long ;) Hopefully:

a) TFC is close to closing the deal with Chicago (and it is a decent finishing striker)

b) DP is on the way :)

adampz
06-21-2008, 11:04 PM
Look how far carver got us in one year, we weren't doing that well last year, look where we are this year, undefeated at home, i think we all need to stop bitching, its one tie.

Bombonera
06-21-2008, 11:11 PM
the tie is e good news. Remember the header in the first half. WE could have easily lost the game.

THe real reason for the reaction si that we do havea good team. THe porblem is that it was nt used.. And the myriad of excuses for that add up to not much. The home points are important unless we all believe that we have many LA Galaxy like miracles in our future (Anyone who watched the Houston game would have a say about that...)

noochie
06-21-2008, 11:15 PM
the tie is e good news. Remember the header in the first half. WE could have easily lost the game.

THe real reason for the reaction si that we do havea good team. THe porblem is that it was nt used.. And the myriad of excuses for that add up to not much. The home points are important unless we all believe that we have many LA Galaxy like miracles in our future (Anyone who watched the Houston game would have a say about that...)

Even the best teams have bad days. The Revs got spanked by CHI earlier in the year 3-0 and they are leading the league. I am still unclear how removing the coach after a draw furthers our development as club.

Roogsy
06-21-2008, 11:15 PM
I agree with you Bombonera. There are things to learn from this game and perhaps there were a few mistakes. Carver does not strike me as being too proud to look at what he may have done wrong. But some on this board are absolutely freaking out and unjustly blasting JC over a game, which is completely irrational.

I think there are some things that need fixing. We have been talking about for weeks how this team finds it hard to score goals on the run of play. That still needs to be fixed.

But is there much else? Our defence has become solid where it was a joke at the beginning of the year. We have a midfield that is considered one of the tops in the league and now wins battles constantly as opposed to giving up the ball like it did last year.

And we are fighting for a Superliga spot. Great things have happened.

Now to fix what remains. Carver needs our support to do that. Not people calling for his head. A 5-0-3 record at home is not something that people should run around and say "wow...they really didn't pull their weight at home"...it's our road record that I am more concerned about.

Blizzard
06-21-2008, 11:21 PM
the tie is e good news. Remember the header in the first half. WE could have easily lost the game.

THe real reason for the reaction si that we do havea good team. THe porblem is that it was nt used.. And the myriad of excuses for that add up to not much. The home points are important unless we all believe that we have many LA Galaxy like miracles in our future (Anyone who watched the Houston game would have a say about that...)

Ya, we could have lost but equally, we could have won. I believe that is the nature of sport.

Actually, we could have more easily won than lost if Amado had had a bit of luck with his shots tonight or if Dichio hadn't gone offside or if the linesman hadn't messed up an offside call on Dichio a few minutes before that or if Rohan had managed to curl that left footer or .......................

djking2
06-21-2008, 11:23 PM
I think Carver was embarrassed by today. His post game interview lead me to believe he really thought Cunny would come through if he had some game time. Well he sur ea hell didn't and Carver was pretty clear that the team needs a real striker. There it is.

Bombonera
06-21-2008, 11:23 PM
FYI - Nobody her including me is suggesting lynching, firing or otherwise for Carver. We must support the man. He is our coach, and he has done quite well. BUT we unofrtunately ar just not that good and today it really showed.

We must not allow oursleves to accept mediocrity... And we must recognize that the job he did today was horrible.

djking2
06-21-2008, 11:24 PM
3-2 La

djking2
06-21-2008, 11:24 PM
Agreed

noochie
06-21-2008, 11:28 PM
FYI - Nobody her including me is suggesting lynching, firing or otherwise for Carver. We must support the man. He is our coach, and he has done quite well. BUT we unofrtunately ar just not that good and today it really showed.

We must not allow oursleves to accept mediocrity... And we must recognize that the job he did today was horrible.

And also that this occurs from time to time, no team is perfect. On the plus... with the loss for NE and the draw in LA... we lose absolutely 0 ground in all races.

Jack
06-22-2008, 12:02 AM
Why would you like him to confirm to some Red Patch Boys inner circle Code of Conduct? He is completely right.

You keep drinking the Kool Aid CAPTAIN RED PATCH.

I'm talking about challenging someone to a fight, Captain Steeltown. ;)

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-22-2008, 12:06 AM
I started a thread a couplf of days ago wonering whether he would start Guevara... Everyone said YES! And I agree it was an obvious decision, and he did not make it. The man sat Guevara, Edu, Brennan...played Harmse, cunningham (WHo Robert obvously can't stand), and Dunivant (WHo is actually not terrible, but)

DO we think that we as fans benefit from Carver's rhetorical BS? How dare he bench our best team and as a consequence sacrifice 2 points.

This is our house Damnit! Not his. Protecting it and caring for it is what he gets paid for. Not simply making a point to players who have the priviledge of playing for their country!:taz::taz::taz::taz:

Is this a scarry example of why he is coaching in Canada and not in the Preniership? His EGO is a disgarace!

a few of the guys just got back from international duty and deserved a break, im surprised some got a game at all. we still got a point and are undefeated at home,,,,not bad of a manager eh!!

noochie
06-22-2008, 12:09 AM
I'm talking about challenging someone to a fight, Captain Steeltown. ;)

Jack-hammer!

Cambridge_Red
06-22-2008, 12:10 AM
Cheers Jack, I have apologized for my comments. I guess my passion got the better of me. Sorry to those offended.

Lucky Strike
06-22-2008, 12:12 AM
The fact that we aren't playing another MLS game in Toronto for close to a month, and he benches Guevara, makes me lose every ounce of respect I had for Carver. He just made me do a 360 as to what my opinion of him is. It's a disgrace that Guevara was on the bench. To start Cunnigham over Guevara is sickening.

So you have the same opinion that you did before? You probably meant to say a 180. :D

P.S. It's possible someone else said this because I haven't read the whole thread yet, just couldn't resist; trying to inject some more positive thought here.

Lucky Strike
06-22-2008, 12:33 AM
I honestly think Carver has had to much time on his hands.

Here is my take on this.

carver has been watching to much of the 2008 Euro's on TV. He saw Portugal, Croatia, an dthe Netheralnds rest most of theri starters in their 3 match of the group play.. So carver figues if Scolari, Van Basten do it it must be good. Waht Carver didn't realize is taht the game was meaningless for those 23 nations. For TFC it was 3 points up for grabbs.

Oh yea i guess everyone on this forum realizes that portugal, croatia and netherlands lost their QF match, the game after they rested their starters. What will happen to TCc the game after they rested their starters, in New England? It can get ugly.

Thanks Carver

I can't begin to describe this non sequitur: it's just horrifying. As for Carver's decision today, here is what I see:

1. While his "keep the shirt" policy worries me sometimes, I can appreciate the upsides: all players are treated fairly (something highly important) and encourages them to work their hardest. That is extremely important; having a determined squad. Just look at what happened to Edwards when he slacked off; he got ripped.

2. A good argument can be made for why Carver stuck to the same 11 for this match: they played well and KC was supposed to be weaker. Those who say this was a mistake have a case: but everything is easier in hindsight. If this was a mistake, it wasn't a stupid one.

3. Some will look on this lost 2 points down the road if it ends up being the difference in some fashion but there are plenty of other spots where we can say we really threw points away: the first DC game with the red card and the Houston game instantly come to mind.

4. Carver is a very good manager and it shocks me when people say they've lost all confidence, or that he needs to be fired/leave, etc... This man runs a very tight and effective ship and after a draw (not a loss no less) people are willing to crucify him. That's simply overreaction. There is cause to be disappointed, but come on, do you know how these rash comments make you look?

5. Why is Carver egotistical when following his "keep the shirt" policy? He's simply a man of his word and follows through on his promises. Perhaps it led to a substandard outcome but look at the bigger picture: how might players like Harmse and Dunivant feel if Carver breaks his own rule and it costs them? In the end, it could have unsettled the squad and cost us more than 2 points (if you believe we lost those 2 points vs. KC). Look at the big picture.

6. I still fully support Carver after today, believe him to a man of his word. And even though we may have forfeited 2 points; I have extreme respect for him to stick to his policy: I don't think I could have.

Cambridge_Red
06-22-2008, 12:38 AM
I like your Style Lucky! Carver is the right man and I stand behind our coaching staff 100%

Fiin
06-22-2008, 12:40 AM
For fuck sake people get over it. Cambridge is a hell of a guy, and Pachuco seems solid too, so get over it. Net result, Carver is an accomlished coach and we are not. I cede he knows more then I even tho I may think differently. So we got a tie. Last year we would be jubilant.


We have as many wins in fuckin June as we did all last year, hes doing something right, this is insane weèll jump him so bad for what we thing isnt the right move. Give the man his dues for his proffesion.

If I pissed anyone off I am sorry but man, lets focus on TFC more and less on being armchair generals.

-Matt

Pachuco
06-22-2008, 01:19 AM
Oh, and I'd like to add that Cambridge is actually a classy guy. He PM'd me and apologized which takes alot after some of the names I called him :)

I was a little errrr drunk when I got back from the game and I'm sure I exagerated everything I was saying like a typical latin person.

Anyways, I'm personally over it, Guevara didn't start and I'm pissed about that, but I'll be back to supporting this team 100% by the time I wake up tommorrow!

Pachuco
06-22-2008, 01:23 AM
So you have the same opinion that you did before? You probably meant to say a 180. :D

P.S. It's possible someone else said this because I haven't read the whole thread yet, just couldn't resist; trying to inject some more positive thought here.

Yes, MLSinToronto pointed out my poor math skills already :D. I'm just shocked that Paul actually reads through the negative threads.

Pachuco
06-22-2008, 01:25 AM
I have heard he has a posse as well, challengers beware :hand:

Unfortunately, the possee was the newbies behind me telling me to sit all game. I actually ended up sitting down for the 1st time this season because there was an older man right behind me asking me to sit. I felt bad being a prick to him.

twistedchinaman
06-22-2008, 02:53 AM
I thought Ricketts created several good chances today.


I think even still most of us can agree that Cunningham has now reached the end of his usefulness with us.

...right?

Fiin
06-22-2008, 08:03 AM
Oh, and I'd like to add that Cambridge is actually a classy guy. He PM'd me and apologized which takes alot after some of the names I called him :)

I was a little errrr drunk when I got back from the game and I'm sure I exagerated everything I was saying like a typical latin person.

Anyways, I'm personally over it, Guevara didn't start and I'm pissed about that, but I'll be back to supporting this team 100% by the time I wake up tommorrow!

I agree with yah Carver shoulda started Amado (hes like our mini DP) I was more or less just sick of seeing Carver bash threads everytime we tie now too lol.

Detroit_TFC
06-22-2008, 08:06 AM
And also that this occurs from time to time, no team is perfect. On the plus... with the loss for NE and the draw in LA... we lose absolutely 0 ground in all races.

Both your points are spot on. I know that this game is a results-oriented business but imagine if our own bosses held us to the standard that some are holding to Carver. :eek:

I wasn't able to see the game due to the hurricane that hit Windsor (really bad rainstorm - no satellite at the bar I was at) so I can't really comment on the game play. But I do know that the TFC of today is head and shoulders above the TFC of last year and Carver was a big part of making that happen. For that alone I can reserve judgment for more than one game, or even one season.

ParadymeTFC
06-22-2008, 08:08 AM
The three guys got subbed in at the 55 minute mark or there abouts; with KC being at the bottom of the East and if they're as shit as their record indicates, should 35 minutes not have been more than ample time for the boys to find a way to win? All they had to do was win by one goal to earn a victory, no?

QFT

If they can't score in 35 minutes against tired legs they sure as hell ain't gonna score against fresh legs in the first 55.

canadian_bhoy
06-22-2008, 08:33 AM
I'll give Carver some credit for sticking to his philosophy of "not changing a winning combination". I'm sure he gets a lot of respect from the loyalty he shows to his players when they do a good job.

Our team is still quite new, and I think that playing the last place team at home is a good time to say to your players "ok, you think you should start over guevara? PROVE IT"...then when he takes them out he can say..."see, that's why you don't start".

He gave the guys a chance to prove that they should start, now when they don't, Carver has some reasoning behind why, rather than getting labeled as coach who plays all his "favorites".

having said that, Guevara should have started, he changed the game when he came in.

canadian_bhoy
06-22-2008, 08:35 AM
Don't start a new thread just because you're worried that no one will read your post on page 5 of the other thread on the EXACT same topic.

Merge? Mods?

BTW, I do agree, Carver is good....see my post on page 5! :)

jloome
06-22-2008, 09:18 AM
And also that this occurs from time to time, no team is perfect. On the plus... with the loss for NE and the draw in LA... we lose absolutely 0 ground in all races.

Not to nitpick, CFS, but this is kinda the half-empty perspective. We actually GAINED ground on New England , who are the division leader, and Chicago, who for all the Columbus Few's early performances are our biggest rival, I think, a good position.

NateDoGG
06-22-2008, 10:08 AM
i think carver came to canada cuz everyone in england had enough of him.

noochie
06-22-2008, 10:16 AM
i think carver came to canada cuz everyone in england had enough of him.

lol... thats a lot of people :)

pimpslapt
06-22-2008, 10:17 AM
holy fuck, we're 4th in the league and half of you mother fuckers start whining over a fucking draw, oh shit, JC made one mistake, get the fuck over it you part timers

noochie
06-22-2008, 10:18 AM
Not to nitpick, CFS, but this is kinda the half-empty perspective. We actually GAINED ground on New England , who are the division leader, and Chicago, who for all the Columbus Few's early performances are our biggest rival, I think, a good position.

and NE has a game in hand. I agree that your comment is even more positive then mine :) I was trying to bring perspective that they can live to fight another day. I think the point is made now. Chalk it up perhaps to alcohol-fueled posting after a very frustrating game? Whatever the case may be.

Bombonera
06-22-2008, 10:22 AM
Carver has made it as far as he did because arguably he can coach. But he sure did bring HIS entire Posse... and Mo let him.

Bombonera
06-22-2008, 10:26 AM
holy fuck, we're 4th in the league and half of you mother fuckers start whining over a fucking draw, oh shit, JC made one mistake, get the fuck over it you part timers
why don't you leave out the explatives, and show some respect for other's opinions.

"Stupid is as a stupid does"...Forrest Gump.:D

FluSH
06-22-2008, 10:37 AM
Why would you like him to confirm to some Red Patch Boys inner circle Code of Conduct? He is completely right.

You keep drinking the Kool Aid CAPTAIN RED PATCH.


and who da fuck are you?!!?

You keep typing www.redpatchboys.ca (http://www.redpatchboys.ca)... everyday...

and don't forget about that...otherwise getta fuck out of here and post on Big Soccer.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-22-2008, 10:47 AM
I think even still most of us can agree that Cunningham has now reached the end of his usefulness with us.

...right?

you could say the same for Dichio he was useless yesterday...slow, even though fast is not part of his reseme, turning the ball over to KC players numerous times, he should have been off at the half, even Lombardo would have been a better option/

Pachuco
06-22-2008, 10:55 AM
Get off the board because you know nothing.1) The team that has CARRIED us while some of our players have been on international duty deserve to start2) As a coach, I do the same thing, go with the players that are producing....3-1 and our best performance of the season last weekend and we are questioning why he started the same lineup today??? Reward them for playing well!!!3) The idiots on this board complaining watch from the stands, if you have better tactics than JC then call Mo....wankers!!!

Grow up and realize that not everyone agrees with you! That's no reason for personal attacks.

Pachuco
06-22-2008, 10:58 AM
and NE has a game in hand. I agree that your comment is even more positive then mine :) I was trying to bring perspective that they can live to fight another day. I think the point is made now. Chalk it up perhaps to alcohol-fueled posting after a very frustrating game? Whatever the case may be.

Not to be the half glass empty guy, but we could easily find ourselves out of a playoff spot if we lose to NE away next week. Oh, and Chicago has a game in hand on us.

Next two away games for us (NE and Chicago) couldn't get any bigger.

Fiin
06-22-2008, 11:39 AM
and who da fuck are you?!!?

You keep typing www.redpatchboys.ca (http://www.redpatchboys.ca)... everyday...

and don't forget about that...otherwise getta fuck out of here and post on Big Soccer.

I would post on Big Soccer but I actually like football and dont wear a helmet to work everyday.

noochie
06-22-2008, 11:43 AM
Not to be the half glass empty guy, but we could easily find ourselves out of a playoff spot if we lose to NE away next week. Oh, and Chicago has a game in hand on us.

Next two away games for us (NE and Chicago) couldn't get any bigger.

Even after a loss we would still be in a wildcard spot. There are plenty of games left, I dont think we need to panic yet.

Phil
06-22-2008, 11:47 AM
Not to be the half glass empty guy, but we could easily find ourselves out of a playoff spot if we lose to NE away next week. Oh, and Chicago has a game in hand on us.

Next two away games for us (NE and Chicago) couldn't get any bigger.

We have 2 games in hand on NE, so there are points that we can make up for. Thats no excuse to let points slip away, but it does factor into things.

I remember last year going into Columbus and being all worried about the game and playoff implications (before the collective huge shit the team took) and they laid an egg for a game. The point is - there is a ton of football left so don't get too wound up over playoff spots yet IMO. :)

Pachuco
06-22-2008, 12:24 PM
Even after a loss we would still be in a wildcard spot. There are plenty of games left, I dont think we need to panic yet.

no panic here :) just saying the next two away games are crucial for us. I'd be satisfied if we come out with 2 or 3 points from these two games.

ilikemusic
06-22-2008, 12:25 PM
Reading this board after anything but a victory is a fucking embarassment.

:noidea:

Blizzard
06-22-2008, 12:33 PM
and who da fuck are you?!!?

You keep typing www.redpatchboys.ca (http://www.redpatchboys.ca)... everyday...

and don't forget about that...otherwise getta fuck out of here and post on Big Soccer.

Oh great. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it! :(

B

Flipityflu
06-22-2008, 12:39 PM
i don't see what the big deal is. the reaction is typical for Toronto sports fans. no look to the future or the past, the only thing that matters is the last game. you win, you're gonna win the cup, if you lose, you sack everybody.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-22-2008, 12:43 PM
TFC will be fine....a draw is apoint closer to playoffs...if we can beat the Revs who are struggling at the moment then come home to beat the caps all will be fine.

Derko
06-22-2008, 12:50 PM
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NOT WINNING TODAY. If we won, I would still be pissed that Guevara didn't start. Do you think LA would ever put Beckham on the bench because he went off to play an international game? NO. Do you think that Carver would've benched Guevara if today was a playoff game? NO. He highly underrated KC and he should hear a little bit of complaint for it.

I'm sure Carver will take the heat, fortunately we didn't lose anything in this match. I also thought Amado would have started, did anyone else notice that when the subs were posted on the scoreboard pre-match, that Brennan,Edu, and Guevara wher not listed, perhaps it was a typo, perhaps it was a head game!! I will leave it to the professionals, management and players to suck this one up. I am sure in your words that Carver will hear a little bit of complaint. Lick the wounds and carry on.
I think if TFC would have won in the game by bringing on our offence in the second half as Carver did, the comment's on the boards would be saying, "Great tactical move by Carver".
I have had my say on the subject, and my opinion is that Carver has improved TFC and will carry on improving TFC.

There are an awful lot of very shallow fans on this message board.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-22-2008, 12:50 PM
i don't see what the big deal is. the reaction is typical for Toronto sports fans. no look to the future or the past, the only thing that matters is the last game. you win, you're gonna win the cup, if you lose, you sack everybody.


the fans want playoff action in the city...the leafs,jays, Rock cant deliver,
Raptors..if they follow Bostons lead could be almost there....argos F**k them. TFC might be the best chance for some exciting playoff action and CCL action later this fall? Go Reds!!

ilikemusic
06-22-2008, 01:00 PM
i don't see what the big deal is. the reaction is typical for Toronto sports fans. no look to the future or the past, the only thing that matters is the last game. you win, you're gonna win the cup, if you lose, you sack everybody.

Very true.

I hope it never get to the point of the Leafs though. I cant listen to people talk about them or partake in message board conversations about them because people are so insanely irrational. Its simply not fun to talk sports with people who cant keep it in perspective.

:noidea:

bhoybobby
06-22-2008, 02:45 PM
God love Carver, an intelligent football man who is trying to motivate the whole squad, not just the staring 11.

That been said, you play you best staring 11 until the play themselves off the starters, or are injured.

If we're talking playing on Merit. Cunningham would be playing at Ontario Place & that talented, but lazy French Fry, Robert, would be picking Carvers boot outta his arse, Christ, he's talented but LAZZZEE & infuriating.

ManUtd4ever
06-22-2008, 03:39 PM
I'm no Carver basher, but the feeling of discontent with a draw against the worst team in the eastern conference (especially at BMO) is more than justified. This is not last year. Thanks to Carver, TFC has raised the bar this season so our expectations should be higher as well. Realistically, the 3 points up for grabs yesterday were TFC's to lose from the opening whistle...

Northern Soul
06-22-2008, 04:17 PM
I agree that it was disappointing. You always want the 3 points at home, especially against a team like KC. Unfortunately, you can't win 'em all. I would have liked to see Guevara start the match, but we don't have the info that Carver has. How was his fitness? Was he mentally ready to play an entire match?

Until we have the kind of information that Carver has (which will be never), we can only have faith that he knows what is best for the team, considering our performance so far.

Jeff s
06-22-2008, 04:47 PM
I like Carver, and he's doing a very good job. (away still needs a lot of improvement though)

But the one thing I don't like is his benching rules. Guevera should of started end of. If he thought the player that played in his position did good, okay nothing wrong with that, but lets be reasonable, Guevera is the better option in the end. And Brennan to should of started.

Still, I like what Carver turned this team to, but its little things like this that could bite ass in the ass like yesterday.

J .
06-22-2008, 05:14 PM
Carver's record at home speaks for itself, he has done a great job turning the club around.

Those players didn't start for good reasons, Brennan did play the night before. Guevara had been with Honduras for awhile and to be honest Edu has played horrible as of late and was less than on form yesterday.

I would rather have them take that game off to be prepared for New England. It is a long season, we are still in June and playoffs don't start till October!

TFC FORZA RPB
06-22-2008, 06:19 PM
Carver is still the man, despite the fact that i would have rather seen all the star players on the field, he did the right thing, rested them and givin them time to practice with their teammates, yes it probably costed us the two points but if u take a look at the upcomming schedual it is going to be extremly busy. and finally we are still in 3rd so as long as we are out of last im happy

Blixa
06-22-2008, 06:55 PM
This anti-Carver talk makes me laugh. Come on guys, even Mourinhos and Fergusons fuck up from time to time.

pimpslapt
06-22-2008, 06:56 PM
why don't you leave out the explatives, and show some respect for other's opinions.

"Stupid is as a stupid does"...Forrest Gump.:D

a) i enjoy a good f bomb, and multiple f boms
b) i do respect others opinions if they are based on logic and not one bad result......and you might say what about the road results which have been gash....well, our starting 11 gets spanked on the road which deflates the ego argument

fuck

Oldtimer
06-22-2008, 07:07 PM
This anti-Carver talk makes me laugh. Come on guys, even Mourinhos and Fergusons fuck up from time to time.

Good point. I bet a lot of you don't remember when Fergie benched Ronaldo for a key game. The same Ronaldo who is the best goal-scorer in the EPL (Man Utd still won the match though, but if they had lost, you probably would have heard the people saying "what is Fergie doing?"). If TFC had won, people would have said that Carver was wise to rest Guevara after playing so much internationally.

giambac
06-22-2008, 08:13 PM
TFC will be fine....a draw is apoint closer to playoffs...if we can beat the Revs who are struggling at the moment then come home to beat the caps all will be fine.


A draw is also 2 lost points closer to missing the playoffs.:eek:


A draw is closer to a loss than it is to a win

1 draw = 1 point gained,
1 draw also means you lost 2 extra points you could have gotten

noochie
06-22-2008, 08:17 PM
A draw is also 2 lost points closer to missing the playoffs.:eek:


A draw is closer to a loss than it is to a win

1 draw = 1 point gained,
1 draw also means you lost 2 extra points you could have gotten

Good point, anything less than perfection from this point out is completely unacceptable.

giambac
06-22-2008, 08:17 PM
Carver's record at home speaks for itself, he has done a great job turning the club around.

Those players didn't start for good reasons, Brennan did play the night before. Guevara had been with Honduras for awhile and to be honest Edu has played horrible as of late and was less than on form yesterday.

I would rather have them take that game off to be prepared for New England. It is a long season, we are still in June and playoffs don't start till October!


Have them take the agme off so they can prepare for New England on the road. You mean so they lose 3-0 vs New england rather tahn 4-0:noidea:

giambac
06-22-2008, 08:25 PM
Yes I know why carver manages in Canada.

Because no team in Europe, England, Scotland, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Germany or Spain are stupid enough to hire him.

His decision making in yesterday's game tells you all you need to know an dwhy he is coaching in the MLS.

If he was a bright coach he wouldn't be coaching in Canada. Yesterday proved it to me.

Torcida
06-23-2008, 07:38 AM
You guys are retarded. (people bashing Carver)

koryo
06-23-2008, 07:42 AM
...the feeling of discontent with a draw against the worst team in the eastern conference (especially at BMO) is more than justified. This is not last year.

If this was last year, we would have lost that game on Saturday.

In regards to Carver bashing, some of you people need to pull your heads out of your arses.

FluSH
06-23-2008, 08:23 AM
Oh great. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it! :(

B


haha... don't take it that way... my response is that this is...first and foremost a supporters website... as opposed to a general Soccer website...

...and some piece of manure talking about driking the "kool-aid" relating what happened in Guyana to what we do here...needs to fcking check themselves and ask what they have done for the team..

Oldtimer
06-23-2008, 08:54 AM
Yes I know why carver manages in Canada.

Because no team in Europe, England, Scotland, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Germany or Spain are stupid enough to hire him.

His decision making in yesterday's game tells you all you need to know an dwhy he is coaching in the MLS.

If he was a bright coach he wouldn't be coaching in Canada. Yesterday proved it to me.

You're joking, right?
Carver has coached some pretty important sides, although not obviously a Manchester United or Liverpool.
TFC was just the next challenge for him.
If it wasn't for Winsper, we wouldn't have him.
If we had a second-tier Italian coach, I doubt we'd do any better (although you obviously know better :) ).

Even though I disagree with him not starting Guevara, I still think he's an excellent coach. Or are you giving Mo all the credit for his acquisitions for our turnaround this season?

Jay P
06-23-2008, 09:05 AM
meh, you guys are jokers... seriously cut Carver some slack...

giambac
06-23-2008, 09:17 AM
You're joking, right?
Carver has coached some pretty important sides, although not obviously a Manchester United or Liverpool.
TFC was just the next challenge for him.
If it wasn't for Winsper, we wouldn't have him.
If we had a second-tier Italian coach, I doubt we'd do any better (although you obviously know better :) ).

Even though I disagree with him not starting Guevara, I still think he's an excellent coach. Or are you giving Mo all the credit for his acquisitions for our turnaround this season?

I'm giving Mo the credit for all the acquisitions this year.
I know things are better this year and the team is playing better this year but that is because of the players not the coach. Look last year we had Lombardo starting most of our games and we had the likes of Welsh. This year we have Guevera, Robert, Ricketts. I give credit to Johnson for bringing these guys in.

Carver should be using them and playing them to their highest potential.

People keep saying we are in third place. Yes we are.
However we are only 2 points out of 6th place in the East. That could have been 4 points if we won on Saturday which we most certainly would have if Carver used our regular starters.

Dozitwin
06-23-2008, 09:27 AM
Doing a 360 will put you in the same spot as you started.

:smilielol5:

Razor
06-23-2008, 10:30 AM
some of you need to chill the fuck out and go get laid or something.

it's 1 game ffs - carver has turned this club around and you want to shit on him for 1 bad game.

give me a break.

Bombonera
06-23-2008, 10:47 AM
It's not the bad game. It happens to every team, and considering outr play away from BMO, I thik we are used to it. ANd by the way, I can not recall any of us expressing our outrage at those results...

It's the leaving our best players on the bench apparently becasue of his principles, his subsequent rhtoric re:the 1 point making a big difference. SUre it makes a differnce, but what about the other 2 we should have had.

YEs, KC was one hell of a team last year, but they don't look good this year...

Pachuco
06-23-2008, 10:47 AM
some of you need to chill the fuck out and go get laid or something.

it's 1 game ffs - carver has turned this club around and you want to shit on him for 1 bad game.

give me a break.

I love it how so many of you ignore what Mo and the player's acquired have done for this team. Go back to the blow Carver thread!

Shaughno
06-23-2008, 10:52 AM
I love it how so many of you ignore what Mo and the player's acquired have done for this team. Go back to the blow Carver thread!


So Carver has done nothing? Mo wouldn't have gotten Robert. I doubt Mo would have got Ricketts. Guevara and Carver are Mo's two biggest signings.

Razor
06-23-2008, 10:53 AM
I love it how so many of you ignore what Mo and the player's acquired have done for this team. Go back to the blow Carver thread!

I know what Mo has done for this team, but this thread/discussion is about Carver.

As for your last comment - you can shove it where the sun don't shine. I'll post where and when I please.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-23-2008, 10:53 AM
I love it how so many of you ignore what Mo and the player's acquired have done for this team. Go back to the blow Carver thread!


the team is a contender faster then most realized, we will get draws like the KC game it happens we didn;t play well...

TFC-Tyler
06-23-2008, 10:54 AM
the team is a contender faster then most realized, we will get draws like the KC game it happens we didn;t play well...
Serious contenders need to win on the road, and have a killer instinct.

Why do I bother though, you think Cunningham is the best striker in MLS.

Shaughno
06-23-2008, 10:56 AM
^^ Did he say serious contender? We are contending with the the top teams in the hardest division. I'd say we're pretty well off for our second year.

Pachuco
06-23-2008, 10:57 AM
So Carver has done nothing? Mo wouldn't have gotten Robert. I doubt Mo would have got Ricketts. Guevara and Carver are Mo's two biggest signings.

Please find where I say Carver has done nothing for this team? PLEASE.

It there is one thing I've realized about some people on these boards is that they don't read shit. Someone disagrees with them and they take it to be the extreme and call everyone bashers.

I will spell it out for you one more time, after that, I'll refer to the same post over and over again.

This team has turned around because of Mo, players acquired, Carver and Winsper in that order, IMO. No Shaugno, that doesn't mean that I think Winsper has done nothing for this team. Actually, NOTHING would be the people not mentioned, such as Lombardo.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-23-2008, 10:58 AM
So Carver has done nothing? Mo wouldn't have gotten Robert. I doubt Mo would have got Ricketts. Guevara and Carver are Mo's two biggest signings.


Carver and Mo have done a terrific job. we are contending, playing more attractive football then last year, lets give them both credit, the team motto is all for one!!!

TFC-Tyler
06-23-2008, 11:02 AM
^^ Did he say serious contender? We are contending with the the top teams in the hardest division. I'd say we're pretty well off for our second year.
Did I ever say we werent competing, or well off? No. Typical Toronto sheeps, cant say something that even resembles negativity without getting attacked (and it wasnt negative, I was stating they arent serious contenders yet.).

stretchthetruth
06-23-2008, 11:06 AM
has anybody considered whether Carver consulted with players as to their fitness levels and/or their fatigue after playing internationals?

Carver: Jim, how do you feel?
Brennan: I feel pretty good... A bit tired, but I'm ok...
Carver: You look like shit, you could use a rest - do you think you can come on as a sub if need be?
Brennan: For sure.
Carver: Ok, take a seat, and I'll call on you later.
Brennan: Ok.

Thats how simple it is... Not saying thats what happened, but its as likely that he asked players how they felt before starting the match. Guys like Brennan dont want to come out and play like ass and look bad. As for Guevara, we'll never know whats going on with those 2, but remember that its a professional locker room and the players are equally responsible for a poor result. If Carver started the returning 5 and we lost, he'd be a moron for going with tired players, etc etc... There are so many levels to each player being in/out of the lineup to consider but the important thing is Carver seems to know his job well, and is doing it well here. My 2 cents, anyway - oh and the script is copyrighted so dont try and use it on TV or something.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-23-2008, 11:17 AM
has anybody considered whether Carver consulted with players as to their fitness levels and/or their fatigue after playing internationals?

Carver: Jim, how do you feel?
Brennan: I feel pretty good... A bit tired, but I'm ok...
Carver: You look like shit, you could use a rest - do you think you can come on as a sub if need be?
Brennan: For sure.
Carver: Ok, take a seat, and I'll call on you later.
Brennan: Ok.

Thats how simple it is... Not saying thats what happened, but its as likely that he asked players how they felt before starting the match. Guys like Brennan dont want to come out and play like ass and look bad. As for Guevara, we'll never know whats going on with those 2, but remember that its a professional locker room and the players are equally responsible for a poor result. If Carver started the returning 5 and we lost, he'd be a moron for going with tired players, etc etc... There are so many levels to each player being in/out of the lineup to consider but the important thing is Carver seems to know his job well, and is doing it well here. My 2 cents, anyway - oh and the script is copyrighted so dont try and use it on TV or something.


lets hope mls adopts the fifa international game fixtures in future so this doen't get to be a regular problem. Carver was right to rest the returning players, we need them down the stretch.

Shaughno
06-23-2008, 11:19 AM
has anybody considered whether Carver consulted with players as to their fitness levels and/or their fatigue after playing internationals?

Carver: Jim, how do you feel?
Brennan: I feel pretty good... A bit tired, but I'm ok...
Carver: You look like shit, you could use a rest - do you think you can come on as a sub if need be?
Brennan: For sure.
Carver: Ok, take a seat, and I'll call on you later.
Brennan: Ok.

Thats how simple it is... Not saying thats what happened, but its as likely that he asked players how they felt before starting the match. Guys like Brennan dont want to come out and play like ass and look bad. As for Guevara, we'll never know whats going on with those 2, but remember that its a professional locker room and the players are equally responsible for a poor result. If Carver started the returning 5 and we lost, he'd be a moron for going with tired players, etc etc... There are so many levels to each player being in/out of the lineup to consider but the important thing is Carver seems to know his job well, and is doing it well here. My 2 cents, anyway - oh and the script is copyrighted so dont try and use it on TV or something.


Exactly, a little logic goes a long way. Here's another great post from the other thread.


1. Brennan played the night before and was flying in that day, good call by Carver to sit him at least half the game
2. Sutton, flew in that day as well i think, probably not the best idea to play a guy who was flying and dealing with the airport headaches the day of the game
3. Harmes played a great game, he's not a pylon, he's not horrible. The same people who are dumping on Harmes were dumping on Velez and Sutton at the beginning of the year(and i was one of the people dumping on Velez). Here's a thought, Carver didnt start Edu because a) Edu will be missing most of August and he wanted Harmes to get some playing time with the team against a weaker opponent at home b) Edu is being shopped around in Europe and Carver is giving Harmes more time on the field as his replacement
4. Guevara has been missing for almost a month, I'd sit his ass too, I think Carver made a statement that if you're missing games because of an international friendly then expect to earn your spot off the bench when you come back.

great decisions by Carver, its the team on the field that didnt deliver, without Brennan, Guevara and Edu we should have still one that game

GabrielHurl
06-23-2008, 11:19 AM
My head hurts after reading this thread :(

tfc88
06-23-2008, 09:32 PM
ya seriously.. I'll admit I was disappointed to not see Guevara earlier, but ultimately I completely agree with Carver's decisions...

1 - He played players that had played extremely well the week before, players that wont get much playing time and need it for fitness/experience/team gelling.

2 - KC are the worst team in the east. I doubt Carver underestimated them, but wanted to see our guys open up a lead and then inject our best players onto the pitch for some adrenaline later in the game.

3 - Internationals - obvious reasons

I blame the players not Carver. We should have opened up a lead but I think KC were a little more skilled and it showed. By the time we got Guevara, Edu and Robert into Brennan into the game it was too late.. Maybe sucks for now, but in time I think it will prove a correct decision. Let's just try to forget about it, and move forward.

ExiledRed
06-24-2008, 12:13 AM
It wasn't Carver who kept giving the ball away.

I mean honestly, the lads played like shit, there's no reason that selection shouldnt have won.

The rotten apple is the problem, he soaks up $250,000, gets minutes to justify it, actually hinders the victory against colorado, cant produce shit when he needs to, bollocks up the entire team's game, because he hasnt got a bleeding clue, and gets a start against Kansas regardless.

Remove him and the squad will improve instantly.

Blizzard
06-24-2008, 12:26 AM
haha... don't take it that way... my response is that this is...first and foremost a supporters website... as opposed to a general Soccer website...

...and some piece of manure talking about driking the "kool-aid" relating what happened in Guyana to what we do here...needs to fcking check themselves and ask what they have done for the team..

Just kidding around ;) ... although I need another Roc caliber poster like an extra hole in my head. :taz:

Cambridge_Red
06-24-2008, 03:15 AM
It wasn't Carver who kept giving the ball away.

I mean honestly, the lads played like shit, there's no reason that selection shouldnt have won.

The rotten apple is the problem, he soaks up $250,000, gets minutes to justify it, actually hinders the victory against colorado, cant produce shit when he needs to, bollocks up the entire team's game, because he hasnt got a bleeding clue, and gets a start against Kansas regardless.

Remove him and the squad will improve instantly.

I second that he's fucking useless! How the hell he got 99 goals is beyond me.

Pachuco
06-24-2008, 10:09 AM
You know, the things is, most the people on this board and I are not in disagreement.

Cunningham should'nt have started as he hindered our chances against Colorado. I mean, it could have been 5-1 if it wasn't for Cunny. Guevara should've started over Cunny, I think alot of people agree with me there. I can tell because of the pre-game thread where we ask if Guevara should start. It was like 99% of the people saying of course he's going to start. He was back for the entire week training with the team and obviously needed no rest. Some people suggested to close off the thread because it was stupid.

I guess the difference is that I actually got pretty pissed about it and some of you have the ability to just brush it off and say, well Carver makes the decisions and I'll support him either way.

So there is no right or wrong here, as a season ticket holder and supporter, I want to see the best team on the field possible everytime I visit BMO. I also think I've earned the right to both praise and question our coach's decisions, after all, there would be no team, no coach without the fans. Drew Carey believes that as well by allowing fans to vote the GM out every four years.

Shaughno
06-24-2008, 10:17 AM
You know, the things is, most the people on this board and I are not in disagreement.

Cunningham should'nt have started as he hindered our chances against Colorado. I mean, it could have been 5-1 if it wasn't for Cunny. Guevara should've started over Cunny, I think alot of people agree with me there. I can tell because of the pre-game thread where we ask if Guevara should start. It was like 99% of the people saying of course he's going to start. He was back for the entire week training with the team and obviously needed no rest. Some people suggested to close off the thread because it was stupid.

I guess the difference is that I actually got pretty pissed about it and some of you have the ability to just brush it off and say, well Carver makes the decisions and I'll support him either way.

So there is no right or wrong here, as a season ticket holder and supporter, I want to see the best team on the field possible everytime I visit BMO. I also think I've earned the right to both praise and question our coach's decisions, after all, there would be no team, no coach without the fans. Drew Carey believes that as well by allowing fans to vote the GM out every four years.

Of course, everyone does. Unfortunately, it can't always happen. Coaches need to make decisions that are best for the short and long term success of the club and players. You have to admit, that team as it was started SHOULD have beaten that KC team. That was quite obviously his thought behind it. We need to know if our bench can perform when called upon since we have a shitload of Int'l fixtures coming up.

It was a mere hiccup. Criticizing is fine, but what if they pulled off a 2-0 win with the same line up? Then is it ok that he didn't start the best available players?

All I'm saying is, when criticizing or praising, make sure you at least have an idea of the reasoning behind some of the decisions made. Especially when they are from a coach who has improved our squad so much tactically.

Pachuco
06-24-2008, 10:33 AM
Of course, everyone does. Unfortunately, it can't always happen. Coaches need to make decisions that are best for the short and long term success of the club and players. You have to admit, that team as it was started SHOULD have beaten that KC team. That was quite obviously his thought behind it. We need to know if our bench can perform when called upon since we have a shitload of Int'l fixtures coming up.

It was a mere hiccup. Criticizing is fine, but what if they pulled off a 2-0 win with the same line up? Then is it ok that he didn't start the best available players?

All I'm saying is, when criticizing or praising, make sure you at least have an idea of the reasoning behind some of the decisions made. Especially when they are from a coach who has improved our squad so much tactically.

See, to me it's not ok if we win 2-0 and he doens't start his best available players. I was pissed when the game started, and I was not as loud as I usually am because of it. I was pretty dissapointed in not seeing Guevara start the game. Ask DJKING2, I said, I have a bad feeling about this game, Carver has underestimated KC, and that he did. To some of you he over-estimated Cunningham, to me he under-estimated KC. Both can be held against him. He's probably just about the only person that felt Cunny could've had a good game and scored his 100th goal based on his previous game and based on his performances this season.

"Coaches need to make decisions that are best for the short and long term success of the club and players."

This is the quote that I keep hearing over and over, but at no point have I argued that Brennan, Sutton, Edu, Marshall should've started. And that quote applies to them and the players they replace on the field. However, how does this apply to Cunningham? Carver has said all along he is looking for a striker (probalby two) and it is no secret Cunningham will be the first to go. Therefore, giving Cunningham playing time now helps no one except him. It doesn't help the team because he's not in our future plans. Some people also suggest that we are playing him so we can shop him around, well, at this point we've devalued him by playing him because no one in the MLS is going to look at this guy and pay his worth, not after this season he's had.

Shaughno
06-24-2008, 10:42 AM
Why is it not ok to win 2-0 without our starting players? The rest of what you've said I agree with for the most part, but aside from Cunny, the rest of the players weren't terrible. They didn't get their job done, but they weren't terrible.

I'm not taking any blame away from Carver, but the players deserve to share some of that blame too. You can have an amazing team and still lose to a shit team if the players don't do their job.

As for Cunny, I can't explain it. He must train really well to keep 'earning' a starting spot. I've backed up Cunny, not because I like him as a player, but simply because I've thought that for the most part he's been given more grief than he deserves. This season he doesn't seem to have any passion, aside from the one game when he scored after Carver basically said he was playing for his job. He seems to have slipped into a Samuel situation where he only plays well when he feels his job is on the line. We need a striker, until then it seems like Carver may just be using Cunny to try and get that 100th goal and lure somebody to take him off our hands.

I don't know, but I do know that it's a position that needs filling ASAP if we want to challenge for anything this season.

Pachuco
06-24-2008, 10:49 AM
Why is it not ok to win 2-0 without our starting players? The rest of what you've said I agree with for the most part, but aside from Cunny, the rest of the players weren't terrible. They didn't get their job done, but they weren't terrible.

I'm not taking any blame away from Carver, but the players deserve to share some of that blame too. You can have an amazing team and still lose to a shit team if the players don't do their job.

As for Cunny, I can't explain it. He must train really well to keep 'earning' a starting spot. I've backed up Cunny, not because I like him as a player, but simply because I've thought that for the most part he's been given more grief than he deserves. This season he doesn't seem to have any passion, aside from the one game when he scored after Carver basically said he was playing for his job. He seems to have slipped into a Samuel situation where he only plays well when he feels his job is on the line. We need a striker, until then it seems like Carver may just be using Cunny to try and get that 100th goal and lure somebody to take him off our hands.

I don't know, but I do know that it's a position that needs filling ASAP if we want to challenge for anything this season.

For me, it's just as simple as I want to see the best 11 everytime they step on the field. I don't like to take chances in sitting Guevara over a player like Cunny and at the same time, I wanted to see Guevara, hadn't seen him over a month and I was exited to see him play.

I think the taking chances on sitting our best player should be left for the international friendlies. Throw Cunny in there all you want, put him on defense for all I care :)

Rawkus_420
06-24-2008, 10:50 AM
I think you guys are on crack. I'd explain why, but I have a feeling it wouldn't sink in...


I agree! you guys sound like a bunch of sensitive chicks, next week we'll win and you'll be all over JC's cock again...Shut the fuck up, and let the man do his job. After all he is leading us to the best season in TFC history. For you to call him out like that is absolutely ignorant. If you know so fuckin much about soccer and its politics and how things should be done, then why the fuck arent you coaching this team. Fuck somebody tell the media, we got some hidden gems in our fan bases who can do a better job with no experience, quick hand in your resumes now, before we get another win, what you waiting for. Your comments make me sick to my stomach, if you're going to be that critical , then go support the fire or something, we need support BOTTOM LINE....you are all to quick to jump on ppl when something happens you dont like,a nd then do a complete 360 , and you'l do it again too, some of you have even admitted to doing this 360. I've made similar posts before and some of you continue to prove me right.....great support guys thanks, you're truly making this a better experience overall......NOT ahhaha:canada:

Shaughno
06-24-2008, 10:51 AM
And what if Guevara had a shit week in training? Maybe that was Carver's reasoning behind not starting him? :p

Pachuco
06-24-2008, 10:55 AM
I agree! you guys sound like a bunch of sensitive chicks, next week we'll win and you'll be all over JC's cock again...Shut the fuck up, and let the man do his job. After all he is leading us to the best season in TFC history. For you to call him out like that is absolutely ignorant. If you know so fuckin much about soccer and its politics and how things should be done, then why the fuck arent you coaching this team. Fuck somebody tell the media, we got some hidden gems in our fan bases who can do a better job with no experience, quick hand in your resumes now, before we get another win, what you waiting for. Your comments make me sick to my stomach, if you're going to be that critical , then go support the fire or something, we need support BOTTOM LINE....you are all to quick to jump on ppl when something happens you dont like,a nd then do a complete 360 , and you'l do it again too, some of you have even admitted to doing this 360. I've made similar posts before and some of you continue to prove me right.....great support guys thanks, you're truly making this a better experience overall......NOT ahhaha:canada:

Not even going to bother!

Shaughno
06-24-2008, 10:57 AM
^^ I wouldn't, it seems to be over the top and aimed at someone else anyway. ;)

Pachuco
06-24-2008, 10:57 AM
And what if Guevara had a shit week in training? Maybe that was Carver's reasoning behind not starting him? :p

Then I would support Carver for that decision. But in his press interview he was pretty clear that everybody was fit and healthy. It was a decision to be a man of his word and play the team that beat Colorado.

Shaughno
06-24-2008, 10:58 AM
Good to see he's a man of his word then. ;)

Again, that team SHOULD have beat KC with or without Guevara. My only real issue was not putting Guevara on right at half time.

Pachuco
06-24-2008, 11:13 AM
Good to see he's a man of his word then. ;)

Again, that team SHOULD have beat KC with or without Guevara. My only real issue was not putting Guevara on right at half time.

So we aren't that far off in our issues :)

man we really need some trade speculation/rumours around here. That would surely put an end to these Carver threads.

I'm getting desperate enough I may visit mls-rumours.net...haha.

Shaughno
06-24-2008, 11:16 AM
It's true. :lol:

Ps. Already been there today... :yikes:

Rawkus_420
06-24-2008, 11:50 AM
Not even going to bother!

keep it that way:hump:

hahaha im just kidding around mostly and I apologize if Ive offended anyone, I agree we should play our best 11 always, so i guess the way JC does things contradicts what we wish. Unfortunately we will have to deal with it for it now. So I guess the best thing we can do is remain positive and support our team and its coaches, bashing them doesnt help at all, but i understand and appreciate your concerns, I just dont like the negativity towards the team, even if they deserve it. Lets give em a break for now(theyre not on the same level as the leafs yet, and lets pray that never happens)

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-24-2008, 11:53 AM
TFC is miles ahead of last season, i think we can agree on that...im sure JC will use his regular starters in Boston as this is a big game for both clubs...come on REDS a good road victory or point is required!!!

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-24-2008, 04:26 PM
I think we do need him here. He knows what he is doing and the track record proves it. How do we know Guevara didnt tell him beforehand he didn't have 90 minutes in him? And are you guys seriously not taking into account that Jimmy played last night?

Besides. KC has been underperforming. Maybe Carver was trying to play the guys who haven't been getting minutes in an effort to keep them in game shape should we need them later on...which with more callups coming, we will.

Relax guys. Had we lost the game, maybe we'd have reason to be upset.

last year we would have lost this game, this year we got the point, 3 would ave been better,but looking at the big picture Carver has us playing some good football, KC were never going to be pushovers they are a good team and with half the season to go could still surprise people.

jloome
06-24-2008, 04:41 PM
It's true. :lol:

Ps. Already been there today... :yikes:

Don't do it boys; I'm online pretty much all the time and I've managed to avoid it (okay, copious bouts of Mass Effect and GRID have helped);

But it is killing me. I"m on the Sporting Life transfer/news wire thing every half hour to see if anyone from England is listed as moving here; doing the google news searches etc. There's something potentially big hanging there, and we can all smell it but none of us know who or what it is.

Pachuco
06-24-2008, 04:53 PM
keep it that way:hump:

hahaha im just kidding around mostly and I apologize if Ive offended anyone, I agree we should play our best 11 always, so i guess the way JC does things contradicts what we wish. Unfortunately we will have to deal with it for it now. So I guess the best thing we can do is remain positive and support our team and its coaches, bashing them doesnt help at all, but i understand and appreciate your concerns, I just dont like the negativity towards the team, even if they deserve it. Lets give em a break for now(theyre not on the same level as the leafs yet, and lets pray that never happens)

That's a much more reasonable post :)

themodelcitizen
06-24-2008, 09:34 PM
WOW. Chill out guys. You ever heard of squad rotation? Players come back from international duty, and due to fatigue/jet lag/just being away from their club teammates for so long, they can't always slip right back into the team.

Guevara had a couple of second-half chances but it's not like he's guaranteed to score or create a goal every game.

I'll be the first to question the coach if he makes a mistake, but this has nothing to do with his ego. As he said on TFC TV, he's not keeping the same squad game-to-game to be clever.

JC's around the team and players every day in training. I think in this instance, I trust Carver's judgement about 100x more than a couple internet posters.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-24-2008, 09:52 PM
I agree with you, but why should we the fans be made to pay for that level of ignorance.

Whil I may agree that he deserves a pass his time, I don't thin we should sit on the fence wiht this one. He should hear it from us all. THat was insulting!


he made the right call, the guys that started should have been KC...this may come as a shock to you we are not going to win every game and a stinker will happen once and a while...you want to complain about management style go down to the ACC and yell they have no style there period. I would rather the manager give the guys soming off int'l duty a rest...they deserve that.

TFC-Tyler
06-24-2008, 09:58 PM
he made the right call, the guys that started should have been KC...this may come as a shock to you we are not going to win every game and a stinker will happen once and a while...you want to complain about management style go down to the ACC and yell they have no style there period. I would rather the manager give the guys soming off int'l duty a rest...they deserve that.
This may come as a shock to you but your opinion is not fact. Just because you think he made the right choice doesnt mean he did. Carver knew he wasnt playing his best players, and we didnt have the best chance to win because of it, so he should not be exempt from criticism because you're a sheep.

Oldtimer
06-25-2008, 07:56 AM
So we aren't that far off in our issues :)

man we really need some trade speculation/rumours around here. That would surely put an end to these Carver threads.



Then we would see the return of the pro-Mo and anti-Mo threads. :p

Shaughno
06-25-2008, 08:08 AM
This may come as a shock to you but your opinion is not fact. Just because you think he made the right choice doesnt mean he did. Carver knew he wasnt playing his best players, and we didnt have the best chance to win because of it, so he should not be exempt from criticism because you're a sheep.

It has nothing to do with being a sheep. Take your own advice on opinions not being fact.

Carver started the best squad available to him aside from one player, Guevara. IMO, the only mistake Carver really made in that game was not getting Guevara in after the half. The rest was up to the players. Brennan, Sutton and Edu all deserved the rest. You can't say it's all Carver's fault when the players just *gasp* didn't get the job done.

Mark in Ottawa
06-25-2008, 09:28 AM
< set sarcasm on >
OMG! Carver gave the team a day off from practice... he didn't run them to death for not winning the KC game... he took them to the beach!

Team bonding? We want discipline! The best players playing all the time (tired or not after flying all over the place and not seeing their families for a while) and the reserves wondering just what it would take to get a shot. we don't care if it a long season or not... we want to see the starting 11 every game of a long and busy season and god help them if they falter.
<set sarcasm off>

So far so good... John Carver is a straight shooter who we can trust to do things his way and not BS us along the way. He is not paid to lose and I think has a good handle on the big picture... bring players along... foster team unity... hold out "carrots" for the players to strive for and achieve in small steps at a time.
I think he has the playoffs as a goal and I think the team is looking good to get there.

pimpslapt
06-25-2008, 11:09 AM
< set sarcasm on >
OMG! Carver gave the team a day off from practice... he didn't run them to death for not winning the KC game... he took them to the beach!

Team bonding? We want discipline! The best players playing all the time (tired or not after flying all over the place and not seeing their families for a while) and the reserves wondering just what it would take to get a shot. we don't care if it a long season or not... we want to see the starting 11 every game of a long and busy season and god help them if they falter.
<set sarcasm off>

So far so good... John Carver is a straight shooter who we can trust to do things his way and not BS us along the way. He is not paid to lose and I think has a good handle on the big picture... bring players along... foster team unity... hold out "carrots" for the players to strive for and achieve in small steps at a time.
I think he has the playoffs as a goal and I think the team is looking good to get there.


listen to this guy, he knows what the fucking is going on!!!