Next Goal -- Get Public Use Out of BMO

[James17930]

I know, I know, I know. BMO, and so TFC, would not even be there if not for public money. And the public money was contingent on public use. I understand all that. But I'm going to contend that that was an agreement based on 2006 thinking. And it's not 2006 anymore.

TFC, and soccer in general, in Toronto and Canada has grown so much in these four years that we really need to move beyond amateurish thinking and ascend to the highest professional standards that we can. Having the public use BMO for rec. sports definitely does not fit that mould.

MLSE has been huge in this regard so far by putting the bubble up over Lamport and pledging to build other fields around the city. I hope that the new training centre is actually the final piece of the puzzle to get the BMO pitch solely for the use of TFC and the National teams.

Obviously I'm not privy to that information, but to make sure it happens, I think that we -- the supporters, TFC, and MLSE -- need to do whatever it takes to get public use out of BMO. We need to pressure the city as we did on the grass debate, raise the issue with the media, do whatever it takes to keep that new, beautiful grass truly new and beautiful.

Gareth Wheeler got the ball rolling -- let's keep it rolling.

PUBLIC USE OUT OF BMO!!!!!

:drum::flare::drum::flare:

[Dirk Diggler]

Why? I am sorry but this should not even be a concern to anyone. This is just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[AL-MO]

Its a joke that these hacks are allowed on the field but I think the problem will likely solve itself.

Just wait until they fuck the field royally. They can say goodbye to their permits at that point.

[Keystone FC]

Its a joke that these hacks are allowed on the field but I think the problem will likely solve itself.

Just wait until they fuck the field royally. They can say goodbye to their permits at that point.
It won't take long considering there will be lacrosse, rugby, college tournaments, soccer exhibitions and friendlies, not to mention the possibility of a concert or two. MLSE will look at the costs of the grass and decide what is not making money and cut it out.

[Pookie]

Its a joke that these hacks are allowed on the field but I think the problem will likely solve itself.

Just wait until they fuck the field royally. They can say goodbye to their permits at that point.

Confusing statement there. Are the boots of hacks any different than the boots of Bolton, the Canadian National Team, etc?

It doesn't matter who is on the field, what matters are the hours and dates that the field is in use.

Grass was put in to increase the number of these high profile/revenue generating bookings that BMO could realize. (Friendlies, CNT matches, etc). I am absolutely positive that sod repair is a line item in the budget offset by the revenue generated here.

Further, the facts are that public use has been extremely limited this year in light of the plan to increase those bookings and the time needed to ensure any surface repairs.

The hours available for rental generally suck. Long weekends, early weeknights and generally on weeks when TFC is playing away from home. There is a strict rain policy in effect that wasn't there last year.

I'm sorry but my U9 soccer team is going to play there. We'll throw a middle finger towards any protest that would take the smiles away from the boys when they found out that they would be stepping on that pitch.

[Wagner]

Its a joke that these hacks are allowed on the field but I think the problem will likely solve itself.

Just wait until they fuck the field royally. They can say goodbye to their permits at that point.

+1

some group will hurt the grass badly.
and then groups will have to put down a $5K deposit to repair the field...
and no one will.

U9 soccer doesn't really hurt a field.

But a bunch of Gareth Weiners will.
Especially the goal mouths.

[DichioTFC]

I'm sorry but my U9 soccer team is going to play there. We'll throw a middle finger towards any protest that would take the smiles away from the boys when they found out that they would be stepping on that pitch.

I love the fact that kids are still able to us the pitch. Its not the kids I'm too worried about (hell, they're more likely to "water the grass" than tear it up :D) but its the non-pro adult leagues (not including CSL) and family / friends of the corporate partners' employees.

That being said, everything in moderation. If the field's use is being kept to a relative minimum, and the public isn't causing a stink then everyone wins.

I'm sure MLSE knew grass maintenance will be an ongoing cost. Until it starts showing signs of wear and tear I would be too bothered about it.

[Hitcho]

I think it's pretty clear where MLSE's intentions lie after the training facility update released a few days ago. Say what you want about MLSE, but they are not stupid, and they don't throw money away for nothing (with the possible exception of Mo snake charming them into something). The planned training facility is a clear indication that they know what's best for the teams (yes, all the TFC teams) and are taking major steps to get there. All I can say to them for this is kudos, kudos, kudos. We wanted grass, we got it. We wanted a grass training facility and it is in the works. And let's be honest - the plans for that facility are way, way, way better than I thought they would be, and they have come around remarkably quickly after the grass pitch went down. They must have been in the works well before the grass was laid to get to the stage they are at. Again, indications that MLSE are ahead of things on that front.

So in contrast to the OP, I think it's time to back off MLSE. They've shown they are on the ball, now let's support them in getting the training facility approved and built. Rome wasn't built in a day, and if it takes time for MLSE to build a TFC Empire then we should support them in that.

[Oldtimer]

So in contrast to the OP, I think it's time to back off MLSE. They've shown they are on the ball, now let's support them in getting the training facility approved and built. Rome wasn't built in a day, and if it takes time for MLSE to build a TFC Empire then we should support them in that.

Good point. Public out of BMO and a roof... it seems like there is always something to complain about!


They kept the Argos out of BMO. They won't come in now that there's a grass pitch.

They're going to build a top notch practice facility.

They ponied up cash for a DP.

They paid beyond TFC's share of the Mo Edu money for a grass pitch.

They expanded BMO seating at their own expense, even though the city owns it.

They built one of the best-equipped weight and fitness facilities for the players in MLS.

They paid for the computerized system to analyze the player's performance, one of only 3 MLS clubs to do so.

You can criticize their choice of GM, but MLSE is pouring cash into this club.

[drewski]

Why? I am sorry but this should not even be a concern to anyone. This is just complaining for the sake of complaining.


its a real concern because of the wear & tear on the field.



It won't take long considering there will be lacrosse, rugby, college tournaments, soccer exhibitions and friendlies, not to mention the possibility of a concert or two. MLSE will look at the costs of the grass and decide what is not making money and cut it out.


lacrosse, well, the Nationals at least, aren't playing at BMO anymore. They moved to Lamport for this season.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Great news about the Nationals moving. It's nice the kids can play on it for now but I don't want anyone on it for anything but to face Toronto (and not midseason friendlies) or Canada. Public use has always been a concern and a totally valid topic.

Canada v Honduras at Saputo. I'll say no more.

[Auzzy]

http://www.collectiveroots.org/files/u3/can_of_worms.jpg

[Mikey]

It's a publicly funded facility, end of story.

[Hitcho]

You can criticize their choice of GM, but MLSE is pouring cash into this club.

Agreed, and they are not doing it in a blind, misguided fashion either just to appease the fans. The grass was well researched and it looks like they have delivered a top class product. The training facility is not a band-aid solution to needing a grass pitch for training either - they've planned out a facility that looks superb and will allow for a whole raft of eventualities, including seating for Academy games.

They've also included public use pitches - this is key because they do not have to, but it looks as though they are wise to the fact that providing good facilities for the public and youth teams will lead in time to a better flow of grass roots players for TFC, and this way the club is getting them in on the ground floor. With Mtl and Van joining the league, the pressure on Canadian players will go up even more, and won't go away. It's crucial for TFC to keep the flow of Nana type players going.

Another thing they spent money on voluntarily that was well placed is the new player dug outs. A good move and done at MLSE's expense on a voluntary basis.

The north stand wasn't the greatest bit of stadium construction in history, but I got the distinct feeling it may have been done to squash the ridiculous Argos charade that was going on. "Alright then, we'll build a big fucking concrete embedded stand at the north end that you can never get rid off cost-effectively, now see how much impact your hollow pissing and moaning has you wankers". Plus they decided to accommodate the beer garden and all its regular punters and weren't really in the market for a full on knock down of the corporate boxes and building an entirely new stand from scratch. So like OT said, at least they did it. And people seem to like the view from what I've read on here.

It's true that MLSE are cash grabbing monkeys whenever they can be, but we also have to recognise that they are pouring a lot of that money back into the club and its facilities. Which makes it all a bit easier to bear I suppose.

Now, if only they could deliver a few MLS Cups to boot... :D:D:D

[Hitcho]

It's a publicly funded facility, end of story.

Just wondering - if the new training facility goes ahead in a viable location, would MLSE strike a deal with the City of TO that the three bubbled outdoor pitches and the indoor pitch are available for public use INSTEAD OF using BMO Field, or at least a deal that reduces public use of BMO Field by sharing the load with the training pitches? I mean think about it, four pitches for use instead of one. Even if TFC keeps two for itself (unlikely, especially in the off-season), that still doubles the amount of pitch time, and probably more so since the grass at BMO cannot be used round the clock like the plastic ones could.

The deal would make sense for everyone, and might help MLSE get the training facility built in a better location. ;)

[Pookie]

^ +1

That said, I would love to know what they are doing on the scouting front.

A number of these investments are tied to revenue generation/protection. Fair enough considering this is a business but in terms of long term development of the club, scouting is a key for me.

[Pookie]

Just wondering - if the new training facility goes ahead in a viable location, would MLSE strike a deal with the City of TO that the three bubbled outdoor pitches and the indoor pitch are available for public use INSTEAD OF using BMO Field, or at least a deal that reduces public use of BMO Field by sharing the load with the training pitches? I mean think about it, four pitches for use instead of one. Even if TFC keeps two for itself (unlikely, especially in the off-season), that still doubles the amount of pitch time, and probably more so since the grass at BMO cannot be used round the clock like the plastic ones could.

The deal would make sense for everyone, and might help MLSE get the training facility built in a better location. ;)

The load is reduced fairly significantly already. Basically, it's down to 48 hours per month of available time from May through August (avg 12 hours per week). Most of that time is used on non-TFC weekends and Monday nights.

[Beach_Red]

I think it's pretty clear where MLSE's intentions lie after the training facility update released a few days ago. Say what you want about MLSE, but they are not stupid, and they don't throw money away for nothing (with the possible exception of Mo snake charming them into something). The planned training facility is a clear indication that they know what's best for the teams (yes, all the TFC teams) and are taking major steps to get there.


Yes, it's an indication. But I see it the opposite of the way you do.

MLSE haven't spent a dime on the practise facility yet. They could finance the whole thing themselves today, but instead they're looking for "partners." They won't even have control over their own practise facility.

If the partners are government (which they're likely to be) it'll be exactly the same as BMO, they'll have someone else to blame for why it took three years to spend the money to get grass in and it'll have public use, too.

It all depens on the partners. Why do MLSE need partners?

Mo didn't snake charm them, he made them the lowest offer.

[James17930]

So in contrast to the OP, I think it's time to back off MLSE. They've shown they are on the ball, now let's support them in getting the training facility approved and built. Rome wasn't built in a day, and if it takes time for MLSE to build a TFC Empire then we should support them in that.

I was pro-MLSE in the OP. Please re-read.

[Stugatzo]

It's a publicly funded facility, end of story.

FTW!!!!

[Dirk Diggler]

FTW!!!!

eff tee double-u is correct. We can't just pretend that the government did not spend any money on this and start denying the public any usage.

Also, in other stadiums, they have monster truck rallies, concerts with 30,000 drunk fans, american football games etc ... would we rather have those events in BMO?

[AL-MO]

Confusing statement there. Are the boots of hacks any different than the boots of Bolton, the Canadian National Team, etc?

It doesn't matter who is on the field, what matters are the hours and dates that the field is in use.

Grass was put in to increase the number of these high profile/revenue generating bookings that BMO could realize. (Friendlies, CNT matches, etc). I am absolutely positive that sod repair is a line item in the budget offset by the revenue generated here.

Further, the facts are that public use has been extremely limited this year in light of the plan to increase those bookings and the time needed to ensure any surface repairs.

The hours available for rental generally suck. Long weekends, early weeknights and generally on weeks when TFC is playing away from home. There is a strict rain policy in effect that wasn't there last year.

I'm sorry but my U9 soccer team is going to play there. We'll throw a middle finger towards any protest that would take the smiles away from the boys when they found out that they would be stepping on that pitch.

I hear BC is going to organize a kickabout with his buddies @ Old Trafford on his next trip to Manchester. :rolleyes:

This field should be used for ELITE level footy. I have watched this league and it is a total joke.

[Mikey]

Just wondering - if the new training facility goes ahead in a viable location, would MLSE strike a deal with the City of TO that the three bubbled outdoor pitches and the indoor pitch are available for public use INSTEAD OF using BMO Field, or at least a deal that reduces public use of BMO Field by sharing the load with the training pitches? I mean think about it, four pitches for use instead of one. Even if TFC keeps two for itself (unlikely, especially in the off-season), that still doubles the amount of pitch time, and probably more so since the grass at BMO cannot be used round the clock like the plastic ones could.

The deal would make sense for everyone, and might help MLSE get the training facility built in a better location. ;)

Access to the three public pitchs at a new state of the art facility would go a long way towards increasing supply, and hopefully reduce demand at BMO.

[James17930]

eff tee double-u is correct. We can't just pretend that the government did not spend any money on this and start denying the public any usage.


But using that logic, then why should the public have to pay to play there? Shouldn't it be free?

[Hitcho]

Yes, it's an indication. But I see it the opposite of the way you do.

MLSE haven't spent a dime on the practise facility yet. They could finance the whole thing themselves today, but instead they're looking for "partners." They won't even have control over their own practise facility.

If the partners are government (which they're likely to be) it'll be exactly the same as BMO, they'll have someone else to blame for why it took three years to spend the money to get grass in and it'll have public use, too.

It all depens on the partners. Why do MLSE need partners?

Mo didn't snake charm them, he made them the lowest offer.

I think the "partners" they are looking for are contractors to build the thing and local government to approve a venue for the facility. Both of which are necessary to get the project off the ground. And they will have "control of their own practice facility". if you read the plans, there is a dedicated TFC grass pitch, not available for public use, and I'm willing to bet that they will get first dibs on the indoor pitch too. As for why they need partners, aside from the above comment, it makes a lot of sense to get in with the City of TO and foster relations in terms of what the club gives back to the community. It;s important to develop younger players, and its important to keep the club a part of the city itself. besides which they will need co-operation to build the facility at a decent lcoation that;s not a million miles away, and if they stay onside with the city and show that they are giving community benefots back, then in 15 years (complete guess) or whatever when it comes time for MLSE to think about building a Shite Bulls type stadium, they can point to the long standing benefits and community give-back and say "now please give us a good venue to build this shiny new stadium that will be an even bigger benefit to the community and bring in lots of money to the area". Makes sense to me. other partners would likely be sponsors, looking for commercial advertising from the TFC rising profile. Again, makes sense.



I was pro-MLSE in the OP. Please re-read.

Sorry, i took it as being "MLSE now need to get X done", didn't mean to mis-quote you. :D

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'll never understand why so many people who claim to want the best for the team think it far more important that somebody they don't know play frisbee on the pitch. It's just as naive to me to say we'd have as much respect for a team that shares with anyone as saying "If they wanted exclusive playing time they should've outright paid for the field!"

It's just not done here. I'm not denying how the place was built but will keep with my preference of one team, one field. Who the hell wouldn't?

[Pookie]

I hear BC is going to organize a kickabout with his buddies @ Old Trafford on his next trip to Manchester. :rolleyes:

This field should be used for ELITE level footy. I have watched this league and it is a total joke.

Well, he might not be able to organize a kickabout.

The good folks at wiki highlight that Old Trafford is also home to rugby matches and concerts (including Bon Jovi, Springsteen, Rod Stewart, Simply Red).

They also host a number of youth camps on the famous grounds.

[habstfc]

That's fucking criminal!! I thought lamport stadium was going to replace bmo for the public use aspect of the deal. I don't care if the general public is supposed to use it or not. It's a professional footie pitch (and a world class one at that), go play somewhere else. Mlse should just buy the effing stadium outright, they got the money. I think there is going to be more outrage at this then there would be at the "public" not getting to use it.

[nfitz]

That's fucking criminal!!By the terms of the agreement with the city - which we all saw and discussed last year, not providing these hours would be criminal (well, not criminal, but a volation of the contract).


I thought lamport stadium was going to replace bmo for the public use aspect of the deal.The deal clearly specifies up to 12 hours a week of community use from April to October (about 360 hours a year). This compares to 4,895 hours of community use in 2008.


I think there is going to be more outrage at this then there would be at the "public" not getting to use it.There's nothing here that we all didn't know 6 months ago. I'm not thrilled about it ... but let's see if it's a real issue or not. If it is, I'm sure MLSE will look to resolve it - perhaps as part of the new training fields.

[Hitcho]

That's fucking criminal!! I thought lamport stadium was going to replace bmo for the public use aspect of the deal. I don't care if the general public is supposed to use it or not. It's a professional footie pitch (and a world class one at that), go play somewhere else. Mlse should just buy the effing stadium outright, they got the money. I think there is going to be more outrage at this then there would be at the "public" not getting to use it.

no way on god's earth would the city sell part of the exhibition grounds to mlse. never.







ever.

[James17930]

Well . . . . . . .

12 hours a week. That's not horrible. My preference would obviously still be 0, but only 12 a week isn't so bad.

As long as some beer isn't tearing up the field with their cleats . . .

[Voodooman]

Man while we are at it, why dont we put together our best supporters players and play tfc. That will probably happen first.

[Cashcleaner]

Why? I am sorry but this should not even be a concern to anyone. This is just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Perhaps. There are some good points being made, but what gets me most is that a lot of the outrage is directed at the wrong people. MLSE is a multi-billion dollar corporation that could have built a stadium to their specs and operated it by themselves but went the cheap route and struck the deal with the city, province, and feds.

Luckily, this situation will sort itself out with the construction of the new training grounds and academy facility.

[LittleOzzy]

I said this last year when the Argos had considered moving in and I think it could also be used to keep the public out.

MLSE simply needs to find a way to fill the time in BMO so that public use would be extremely limited.

I think the best and cheapest possible way for this to happen would be to buy a WPS soccer franchise and have the girls play when TFC is away.

It would keep the people on the grass professional and BMO field would be filled all summer long with soccer.

I know it's really outside the box thinking, but it's a cheap alternative that would keep the city happy. No way the city says no to MLSE if they want to bring in a woman's soccer team.

[Cashcleaner]

^A womens pro team will still muck up the pitch, though. If anything, they would likely have more of an impact than amateur beer leagues or schools using the grounds. Isn't that what the concern is about? The state of the pitch?

[James17930]

This makes me feel better about this thread:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2010/05/20/dobson_torontofc_schedule/