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Menelaos
05-17-2010, 08:59 AM
Ok, allow me to first state that I am sorry Herold has to retire and I undetstand as well as anybody else that his health comes before football.

Having said that (and trying to not sound insensitive), I do have a question about what happens to our draft pick. This is not a condition he developed after being drafted by TFC, so does anyone know if there will be some form of "compesation" (for lack of a better word/term) by MSL to us say for next year's draft?

Or is it a "too bad, shit out of luck" scenario based on the pick?

Whoop
05-17-2010, 09:01 AM
Caveat emptor.

Menelaos
05-17-2010, 09:02 AM
Caveat emptor.


Was afraid of that..

menefreghista
05-17-2010, 09:07 AM
Its possible for reasons of compassion the league may give us some allocation money because of this.

Pure speculation on my part though.

Joe Kool
05-17-2010, 09:09 AM
Maybe they should actually do some testing, like they did to discover this, prior to getting your name on the available list of drafts in the first place. That way no surprises. I am actually surprised that this isn't done already.

Menelaos
05-17-2010, 09:10 AM
Maybe they should actually do some testing, like they did to discover this, prior to getting your name on the available list of drafts in the first place. That way no surprises. I am actually surprised that this isn't done already.


Exactly!
Don't all other sports test prior to draft?
And are you telling me that doctors for the US U-17 team didn't do tests?

drewski
05-17-2010, 09:12 AM
I hope one of the lesson's learned by the league & teams here is more medicals (just for the sake of the athlete's).

Shaughno
05-17-2010, 09:21 AM
I know the players do a medical at the combine, but I'm sure it's nothing like the medical testing they do at individual clubs. Read the thread PB posted and you'll see he was sent to many additional doctors to make sure.

Toronto FC also has one of the best training/fitness facilities in the league from all accounts.

The fact that this bypassed everyone from the USMNT doctors to the combine shows you that it's obviously not something that's either a)easily detected or b)isn't a very common problem that they test for in the first place.

drewski
05-17-2010, 09:31 AM
Maybe they should actually do some testing, like they did to discover this, prior to getting your name on the available list of drafts in the first place. That way no surprises. I am actually surprised that this isn't done already.


Standard medicals aren't good for showing this particular problem, so all the medicals in the world might not have caught it, save for some confluence of random events. Even when screen for specifically, it doesn't always show up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophic_Cardiomyopathy_Screening#Screening_an d_Diagnosis

Suds
05-17-2010, 09:55 AM
Maybe they should actually do some testing, like they did to discover this, prior to getting your name on the available list of drafts in the first place. That way no surprises. I am actually surprised that this isn't done already.

We don't know that they did not do tests. It could be it was not discovered at the time other tests were done. (just speculating here since we do not know the details)

Joe Kool
05-17-2010, 10:00 AM
Standard medicals aren't good for showing this particular problem, so all the medicals in the world might not have caught it, save for some confluence of random events. Even when screen for specifically, it doesn't always show up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertrophic_Cardiomyopathy_Screening#Screening_an d_Diagnosis

Well I am glad they caught it then by luck to save him from dropping dead on the field. My wife also has a cardiac condition that only shows up on a percentage of her ECG's.

gracos
05-17-2010, 05:19 PM
Thanks Zac Herold, but would TFC management do their homework, this guy should of been given a proper medical, and that includes any medical history, which would of been tested, if TFC doesnt make playoffs Mo step down please for the sake of the city

Yeoman
05-17-2010, 05:21 PM
Maybe they should actually do some testing, like they did to discover this, prior to getting your name on the available list of drafts in the first place. That way no surprises. I am actually surprised that this isn't done already.

well, this is something to bring up at the supporters summit then

T_Mizz
05-17-2010, 05:30 PM
This isn't really a new thing in sports is it? Luc Bourdon and Alexei Cheripanov come to mind, was any compensation offered in these cases?

Chevy
05-17-2010, 06:00 PM
^^ Len Bias of the Celtics is the best example of this. I don't think they recieved anything from the NBA.

Flipityflu
05-17-2010, 06:04 PM
^^ Len Bias of the Celtics is the best example of this. I don't think they recieved anything from the NBA.


they got a lesson in why not to do cocaine.

Flint
05-17-2010, 06:08 PM
Rangers recieved a 2nd round pick as compensation for Cherepanov's death.

Derko
05-17-2010, 09:05 PM
Thanks Zac Herold, but would TFC management do their homework, this guy should of been given a proper medical, and that includes any medical history, which would of been tested, if TFC doesnt make playoffs Mo step down please for the sake of the city

Give it a break, It's like the football players and hockey players that have just dropped dead during a game, geez, too bad for Zac's career, but could have and likely saved the lad's life.

Juanito
05-17-2010, 09:15 PM
TFC quite literally may have saved a life. In the end, that's all that matters.

Super Cereal
05-17-2010, 11:38 PM
This isn't really a new thing in sports is it? Luc Bourdon and Alexei Cheripanov come to mind, was any compensation offered in these cases?
Luc Bourdon died in a motorcycle accident. Mickey Renaud would be a batter recent hockey example.

T_Mizz
05-18-2010, 07:33 AM
so presumably compensation was offered for bourdon too, or is it different because it was an accident not a medical condition.

djking2
05-18-2010, 12:50 PM
The odd thing about this situation as I see it is that Zach was Gen Ad and therefore had already signed a contract with MLS before the draft. I have to figure there is some negotiation at the least for compensation by MLS

rocker
05-18-2010, 12:59 PM
ya... MLS should compensate TFC. TFC didn't "sign" Herold. He was signed long before TFC ever drafted him. He may not have even been the #1 dude TFC would have wanted at that spot in the draft, but he was GA and a promising talent, so he was taken. Any of the other teams could have had him too. Some allocation money would be nice.

Don Julio
05-18-2010, 01:20 PM
Thanks Zac Herold, but would TFC management do their homework, this guy should of been given a proper medical, and that includes any medical history, which would of been tested, if TFC doesnt make playoffs Mo step down please for the sake of the city

I'm wondering, do you think that each club should be giving extensive 3 day medicals to every player they may be drafting before the draft?

Shaughno
05-18-2010, 01:33 PM
I'm wondering, do you think that each club should be giving extensive 3 day medicals to every player they may be drafting before the draft?


Obviously! :rofl:


(but seriously the combine's medicals should be a bit more thorough to be fair)

Menelaos
05-18-2010, 01:37 PM
ya... MLS should compensate TFC. TFC didn't "sign" Herold. He was signed long before TFC ever drafted him. He may not have even been the #1 dude TFC would have wanted at that spot in the draft, but he was GA and a promising talent, so he was taken. Any of the other teams could have had him too. Some allocation money would be nice.

I agree...

Or

they could grant TFC an additional draft pick in next years draft (even if a lower end pick)

Don Julio
05-18-2010, 03:38 PM
Obviously! :rofl:


(but seriously the combine's medicals should be a bit more thorough to be fair)


My point being that TFC has no opportunity or responsibility to independently analyze a player's medical status before drafting them. Not everything is Mo's fault.

And you have to wonder how thorough it would have to be to catch a condition that 12 years of professional play, and four clubs' medical teams couldn't catch in Marc-Vivien Foe.

Sometimes things are just unfortunate, and bad luck. More so for Herold than TFC, too.

Pachuco
05-18-2010, 07:46 PM
I don't understand why anyone thinks we should be compensated for Herold. We drafted a player, turns out he's sick and won't be able to play again, so be it. There are lots of reasons why draft picks don't turn out. What if OBW never recovered from his knee injury? should we then be compensated too?

Do you think the NHL compensated the Rangers when Sherpanaov passed away with a very similar condition? The MLS might have signed the guy, but TFC drafted him. There's obviously a known risk in drafting any player at any time, I don't think the MLS should start distinguishing between what consitutes compensation when a draft pick doesn't turn out.

Or how about those draft picks that pick up and leave to Europe, should we be compensated for those guys leaving as well?

T_Mizz
05-18-2010, 07:55 PM
Rangers recieved a 2nd round pick as compensation for Cherepanov's death.


I don't understand why anyone thinks we should be compensated for Herold. We drafted a player, turns out he's sick and won't be able to play again, so be it. There are lots of reasons why draft picks don't turn out. What if OBW never recovered from his knee injury? should we then be compensated too?

Do you think the NHL compensated the Rangers when Sherpanaov passed away with a very similar condition? The MLS might have signed the guy, but TFC drafted him. There's obviously a known risk in drafting any player at any time, I don't think the MLS should start distinguishing between what consitutes compensation when a draft pick doesn't turn out.

Or how about those draft picks that pick up and leave to Europe, should we be compensated for those guys leaving as well?
Apparently they did.

Pachuco
05-18-2010, 07:57 PM
Apparently they did.

Wow, I'm schocked :) Maybe I should read the entire thread first before posting.

That's retarted if you ask me.

Pachuco
05-18-2010, 08:08 PM
Ok hold on a sec. Just looked up the reason the Rangers were awarded a draft pick. There is a rule in place that if a team is unable to sign a first round player then they are awared a second round draft pick. So the award of draft pick happens because of an existing rule, and that rule wasn't even intended to be there as protection from players who may end up passing before they can be signed.

Now if this rule exist in MLS then it makes sense to compensate TFC, but if it doesn't, you can't just randomly start awarding teams who's draft picks don't turn out or else where do you draw the line?

What are the exceptions to the ‘30 players per round’ rule?
There are two. First, compensatory picks are awarded for teams who lost more Group III free agents than gained over the previous year. The round and number of the pick is determined by a system of points based on various considerations. The rule of thumb is the better the player lost, the higher the compensatory pick. But compensatory picks are NEVER added to the first round.
The second case in which the league awards a compensatory pick is when a team does not sign to an entry-level contract a former first round selection. The team is compensated with a second round pick for the current draft in the exact same selecting position as when the player was originally drafted. In illustration, a player taken in position number 17 in 2000 draft and was not signed, the drafting team will be awarded a compensatory pick in the number 17 slot of the second round.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/mc/comments/rangers_get_draft_pick_for_cherepanovs_death/