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TFCRegina
05-16-2010, 04:02 PM
Complete reform of the governance of the CSA...sounds good, but We'll have to see how it turns out.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/jasondevos/2010/05/governance-of-canadian-soccer-about-to-change.html

SilverSamurai
05-16-2010, 04:26 PM
WHA?!
Can it be?! The CSA is starting to get organized?!

Redcoe15
05-16-2010, 04:28 PM
Love for it to happen. But I'm not going to hold my breath. I'll wait and see. Great news if true.

Oldtimer
05-16-2010, 04:51 PM
No Director will be a member of a Provincial/Territorial Board, in order to prevent a conflict of loyalty.

:flare::flare::flare::flare::flare::flare:

Roogsy
05-16-2010, 05:34 PM
There were individuals and provincial representatives who voted against this motion, preferring instead to cling to the status quo, desperately trying to retain their positions of power.

Their political manoeuvring was indiscreet; it was in your face, out in the open for all to see - and everyone in attendance knew it.

Despite their best efforts to derail the reform process they were outnumbered, and those in favour of change - those in favour of moving the Association forward as a unified body - saw the motion passed.

I'd love more info on this. More than likely, these are the people that have been inhibiting progress at the CSA to begin with. I'd love to know who they are.

TFCRegina
05-16-2010, 05:35 PM
I'd love more info on this. More than likely, these are the people that have been inhibiting progress at the CSA to begin with. I'd love to know who they are.

Whoever they are, they're going to be losing some power with the reforms, otherwise they wouldn't have opposed.

ag futbol
05-16-2010, 05:47 PM
^ Look on the V's forum, you'll get some of the names.

They include an insurance salesman and a guy who can barely speak english looking for a CSA that sells beer.

Roogsy
05-16-2010, 06:00 PM
Thanks AG.

So according to the Voyageurs forum, the Alberta delegation were ardent opponents to reform.

Who else?

TFCRegina
05-16-2010, 06:32 PM
Thanks AG.

So according to the Voyageurs forum, the Alberta delegation were ardent opponents to reform.

Who else?

Apparently Quebec was against it too.

Surprise surprise, Alberta and Quebec both oppose something everyone else was on board with.

Sound familiar?

TFC07
05-16-2010, 06:32 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if BC Soccer people voted against this as well.

TFC07
05-16-2010, 06:33 PM
Apparently Quebec was against it too.

Surprise surprise, Alberta and Quebec both oppose something everyone else was on board with.

Sound familiar?

How come Alberta was against this? I understand Quebec who want to do their way only, and couldn't careless about rest of Canada.

werewolf
05-16-2010, 06:33 PM
Apparently Quebec was against it too.

Surprise surprise, Alberta and Quebec both oppose something everyone else was on board with.

Sound familiar?

Guess now they dont need to be appeased with wasting national team games there in the future.

TFCRegina
05-16-2010, 06:47 PM
Guess now they dont need to be appeased with wasting national team games there in the future.

Unfortunately, that's also the wrong attitude to have. Ontario is only a third of Canada. We can't be solely relying on building the game in 1/3 of this country. The approach needs to be inclusive.

Also, Alberta's delegation was actually illegally appointed by certain people in the CSA opposed to reform. The actual ASA tried to send a delegation which would have been pro-reform.

TFCRegina
05-16-2010, 06:48 PM
How come Alberta was against this? I understand Quebec who want to do their way only, and couldn't careless about rest of Canada.

See my post above.

werewolf
05-16-2010, 06:49 PM
Alberta gets a pass then. I stand by my previous statement in regards to Quebec.

Troll
05-16-2010, 06:53 PM
I predict a future write-up on this on BigNewf's blog. I can hardly wait to read his intellegent, impartial & informative writings.

Pigfynn
05-16-2010, 06:55 PM
It is absolutely baffling to me that this is soooo hard.

Canada has been so poor for so long that it's hard to imagine why sweeping change hasn't come sooner. The terrible little people that try to control an obviously broken system for personal gain and no one has done anything about it until now?

Baffling.

devioustrevor
05-16-2010, 06:57 PM
I don't think Alberta even got to vote. Their provincial association is in complete shambles right now, nobody knows who's in charge and Dominic Maestracci or whatever his name is isn't making the situation any better with his interference.

DichioTFC
05-16-2010, 07:22 PM
I predict a future write-up on this on BigNewf's blog. I can hardly wait to read his intellegent, impartial & informative writings.
:lol:

But still, good on CSA to finally get its shit together. Soccer is huge in Canada, bigger than hockey. Its about damn time that the sport gets the recognition it deserves.

Can't wait to see Canadian soccer 20 years from now. I think we'll have a paradigm shift where we'll challenge Mexico and USA for all CONCACAF competitions.

CretanBull
05-16-2010, 07:39 PM
They're finally talking about doing what Holger Osieck wanted to do 10 years ago...

Oldtimer
05-16-2010, 07:47 PM
Here are the detailed proposals:

http://onsoccer.ca/?id=6505


3) The appointed Directors would comprise of:
• One Director from the Professional game
• One Director to represent National Team athletes
• Four Directors at largeI would nominate Paul Bierne of TFC for this position, or Bob Lenarduzzi of the Whitecaps. Either of these people could help the CSA get it's act together, especially on the business and governance side.

DichioTFC
05-16-2010, 07:47 PM
It is absolutely baffling to me that this is soooo hard.

Canada has been so poor for so long that it's hard to imagine why sweeping change hasn't come sooner. The terrible little people that try to control an obviously broken system for personal gain and no one has done anything about it until now?

Baffling.

I've worked in the Ontario Legislature for 6 years. Trust me, this is just the tip of the iceberg Provincially and Federally. Some agencies / departments are so poorly planned you would think children created their business plans.

Oldtimer
05-16-2010, 07:48 PM
I don't think Alberta even got to vote. Their provincial association is in complete shambles right now, nobody knows who's in charge and Dominic Maestracci or whatever his name is isn't making the situation any better with his interference.

According to the Voyageurs, the ousted Albertan board members got to vote, but didin't get their way (which was against reform, of course).

DichioTFC
05-16-2010, 07:51 PM
Here are the detailed proposals:

http://onsoccer.ca/?id=6505



I would nominate Paul Bierne of TFC for this position, or Bob Lenarduzzi of the Whitecaps. Either of these could help the CSA get it's act together, especially on the business and governance side.

I would prefer PB to stay here :)

Still, Lenarduzzi probably deserves the director position more than any single person in Canada.

CretanBull
05-16-2010, 07:52 PM
Here are the detailed proposals:

http://onsoccer.ca/?id=6505

I would nominate Paul Bierne of TFC for this position, or Bob Lenarduzzi of the Whitecaps. Either of these people could help the CSA get it's act together, especially on the business and governance side.


As much as we bitch about the FO, there's no question that when it comes to the business side of things that PB is on top of things. We don't always like the results (for our own reasons) but objectively, he's done an increduble job in terms of handling business.

TFCRegina
05-16-2010, 07:52 PM
I've worked in the Ontario Legislature for 6 years. Trust me, this is just the tip of the iceberg Provincially and Federally. Some agencies / departments are so poorly planned you would think children created their business plans.

Everyone knows business plans are created to show that you are intending to go somewhere, not actually get there.

TFCRegina
05-16-2010, 07:53 PM
As much as we bitch about the FO, there's no question that when it comes to the business side of things that PB is on top of things. We don't always like the results (for our own reasons) but objectively, he's done an increduble job in terms of handling business.

PB or BL would both be supremely qualified for the job.

DichioTFC
05-16-2010, 08:02 PM
Everyone knows business plans are created to show that you are intending to go somewhere, not actually get there.

Most departmental / Ministry business plans lack vision and forethought leaving for poor implementation and clusterfuck situations like what's been going on with CSA.

TFCRegina
05-16-2010, 08:04 PM
Most departmental / Ministry business plans lack vision and forethought leaving for poor implementation and clusterfuck situations like what's been going on with CSA.

I don't disagree.

Roogsy
05-16-2010, 09:03 PM
How come Alberta was against this? I understand Quebec who want to do their way only, and couldn't careless about rest of Canada.

From what I gather on the Voyageurs board, it wasn't "Alberta" but rather specific elements in Alberta that won't want to give up their positions of influence because a few structure would affect their own personal business models.

Apparently there is a power-struggle in the Alberta Soccer Association right now and the element that was pushed out was more in favour of reform than the element that was allowed to vote at this latest vote.

J .
05-16-2010, 09:49 PM
What ever happens, it should be directed at getting our top players WC ready. I cannot believe how elements want to hold it back. Not shocked, just think its ridiculous.

Yeoman
05-16-2010, 10:19 PM
they're also looking at re-doing the NCC
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2010/04/27/13734951-qmi.html

Macksam
05-16-2010, 10:32 PM
I would prefer PB to stay here :)

Still, Lenarduzzi probably deserves the director position more than any single person in Canada.
No doubt about that. I hope this brings about the changes on the level Basketball Canada got. They seem to be doing things right now. Isn't Canada's U20 team like 4'th in the world?

Keystone FC
05-17-2010, 02:43 AM
they're also looking at re-doing the NCC
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2010/04/27/13734951-qmi.html
We pretty much knew the changes were coming even before Edmonton was in the picture when both Vancouver and Montreal said they wanted to keep a team in the Div. II league when they made the jump to MLS.
The round robin format is dead with Edmonton joining NASL next season which would make 4 clubs in the NCC and there should be a club to take the Impacts place once they jump in 2012 which would make the number 5. It is at this point, IMO, that if there is not another club to make the NCC a 6 team competition that a club from th CSL should join the NCC.

ginkster88
05-17-2010, 06:51 AM
"But the real problem is that, in a round-robin format, there is no true championship game to decide the winner. There is no cup final."

I don't know, this format seems to work alright in the EPL...

ag futbol
05-17-2010, 05:03 PM
Thanks AG.

So according to the Voyageurs forum, the Alberta delegation were ardent opponents to reform.

Who else?
Dominic Maestracci and Victor Montagliani or they (if you believe the v's board) at least worked against the proposals.

It was funny when these guys had to field soft ball questions from the media post Dale Mitchell.

I dream at night that someone will actually call them to the mat and question why they voted against governance reform and ask a few other hard questions.

TFCRegina
05-17-2010, 05:07 PM
Dominic Maestracci and Victor Montagliani.

It was funny when these guys had to field soft ball questions from the media post Dale Mitchell.

I dream at night that someone will actually call them to the mat and question why they voted against governance reform and ask a few other hard questions.

Where is J-Mo when you need him.

ag futbol
05-17-2010, 05:11 PM
I think we need Bob Iarusci, a bottle of scotch, and about 2 hour verbal beat-down.

Macksam
05-17-2010, 06:13 PM
I think we need Bob Iarusci, a bottle of scotch, and about 2 hour verbal beat-down.
He is the best commentator out of everyone who play by plays for Toronto FC.

Keystone FC
05-18-2010, 12:59 AM
Dominic Maestracci and Victor Montagliani or they (if you believe the v's board) at least worked against the proposals.

It was funny when these guys had to field soft ball questions from the media post Dale Mitchell.

I dream at night that someone will actually call them to the mat and question why they voted against governance reform and ask a few other hard questions.
So I take it that these guys voted against reform because they would be pretty much out of a job within the CSA.

Oldtimer
05-18-2010, 07:26 AM
So I take it that these guys voted against reform because they would be pretty much out of a job within the CSA.

You got it. Not just themselves, but also their "old boy" network buddies ("old girls" need not apply).

Fort York Redcoat
05-18-2010, 07:42 AM
Dominic Maestracci and Victor Montagliani or they (if you believe the v's board) at least worked against the proposals.

It was funny when these guys had to field soft ball questions from the media post Dale Mitchell.

I dream at night that someone will actually call them to the mat and question why they voted against governance reform and ask a few other hard questions.

Great point. The fact that at every turn the existing body wishes to concentrate on the status quo and focus on the grass roots of the game means to me they want to keep themselves and even the game itself out of the national spotlight to enjoy their cushy positions.

I hope the near future can mean the end of scrounging for news for Canada supporters and the National team can get as much exposure to the general public as the club sides are getting.

devioustrevor
05-18-2010, 11:17 AM
Dominic Maestracci and Victor Montagliani or they (if you believe the v's board) at least worked against the proposals.

It was funny when these guys had to field soft ball questions from the media post Dale Mitchell.

I dream at night that someone will actually call them to the mat and question why they voted against governance reform and ask a few other hard questions.

Well Maestracci is the f@cker that has been interfering with the ASA to make sure the people who would vote the way he would kept their positions.

I wish someone like Stephen Brunt would do an in-depth article on the whole situation to bring it into the light. Try and force the hand of the CSA to get rid of Maestracci.

Roogsy
05-18-2010, 11:32 AM
This is where journalists will earn respect. Those that step up and highlight the shenanigans at the CSA will earn the respect of soccer fans in this country. Those that keep to themselves and say nothing should be embarrassed.

Keystone FC
05-18-2010, 11:58 AM
You got it. Not just themselves, but also their "old boy" network buddies ("old girls" need not apply).
The question I have is how did it even get to this point. You would have thought that someone would have spoken up or challenged the system YEARS ago.

Toronto Ruffrider
05-18-2010, 12:27 PM
So I take it that these guys voted against reform because they would be pretty much out of a job within the CSA.

I'm not surprised. I remember when the problems with the CSA were gaining the spotlight in the summer of 2007. Jerry Dobson conducted a very blunt interview with Montagliani on Soccer Central. Dobson looked pissed, and Montagliani was sweating like the fat pig he is.

Oldtimer
05-18-2010, 01:02 PM
The question I have is how did it even get to this point. You would have thought that someone would have spoken up or challenged the system YEARS ago.

Kevan Pipe (the old CSA Prez) was part of the Old Boys club, and he was in there for over 20 years. He supported the system that supported him.

He wasn't all bad - he brought us BMO Field and supported MLS expansion into Canada.

Super Cereal
05-18-2010, 01:05 PM
Soccer is huge in Canada, bigger than hockey.
No it isn't, and it never will be. Get over it. You'll never hear soccer being referred to as Canada's religion.

Love footie, but it's not a competition between that and hockey. Realize that and get over it.


As for the topic on hand... Finally, long overdue. I'm amazed that such incompetence has been around for so damn long though, infuriating.

Keystone FC
05-18-2010, 01:10 PM
Kevan Pipe (the old CSA Prez) was part of the Old Boys club, and he was in there for over 20 years. He supported the system that supported him.

He wasn't all bad - he brought us BMO Field and supported MLS expansion into Canada.
But with that said could it be that his only motive for supporting MLS expansion into Canada was for personal gain? I mean, thanks for helping make this happen but what was the real motive behind MLS in Canada. Was it to advance the sport in Canada? Was it to help the CSA gain a World Cup spot? Was it to host a World Cup?

Oldtimer
05-18-2010, 01:10 PM
Soccer is bigger than hockey in kid participation - perhaps that's what DichioTFC was referring to.

Obviously, in terms of TV and sponsorship revenue, nothing even comes close to hockey in Canada.

Oldtimer
05-18-2010, 01:12 PM
But with that said could it be that his only motive for supporting MLS expansion into Canada was for personal gain? I mean, thanks for helping make this happen but what was the real motive behind MLS in Canada. Was it to advance the sport in Canada? Was it to help the CSA gain a World Cup spot? Was it to host a World Cup?

I don't know his motives. All I've stated were the facts.

There is little question that the old guard at the CSA have resulted in Canada being rated in Soccernomics as the most underperforming country in the world for soccer, as opposed to where it should be.

Keystone FC
05-18-2010, 01:17 PM
I don't know his motives. All I've stated were the facts.

There is little question that the old guard at the CSA have resulted in Canada being rated in Soccernomics as the most underperforming country in the world for soccer, as opposed to where it should be.

Alright. So now that it looks like the house is being cleaned where does the CSA go from here and how far CAN they go.

What would a new CSA look like? Would it still be CSA or something new like Australia did with their association:
from this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3d/Socceraustralia.png
to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FootballFederationAustralia_logo.svg

SilverSamurai
05-18-2010, 01:18 PM
No it isn't, and it never will be. Get over it. You'll never hear soccer being referred to as Canada's religion.

Love footie, but it's not a competition between that and hockey. Realize that and get over it.


As for the topic on hand... Finally, long overdue. I'm amazed that such incompetence has been around for so damn long though, infuriating.
Actually soccer is bigger than hockey. It has been for a while. Their are lots of stats to back this up.
However it's bigger (greater number) when it comes to participants, obviously not media coverage or sponsorship $$$.
I do think you likely have more kids saying they want to play hockey as a job when they grow up vs. soccer. Most parents see it as a cheap way to get their kids doing something. I mean can you blame them though? Look at the costs b/w both sports. Even Hockey Canada acknowledges equipment costs keep a lot of people away, namely the immigrant populations. Speaking from experience, that's why I never played. I did do skating though.
I don't think it's really a competition and don't see why you can't enjoy both. I do.

canucker
05-20-2010, 11:26 AM
Updated article from DeVos. Hopefully this spurs progress here, I'd love to see Canada make the WC in my lifetime!

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/jasondevos/2010/05/an-update-on-governance-reform-to-canadian-soccer.html

Whoop
05-20-2010, 11:30 AM
In terms of participation numbers, especially at the youth level, soccer has been bigger than hockey for the last 20 years.

Problem is soccer has always been viewed in this country as something "to do" in the summer for a lot of kids who play hockey or something to do so kids don't get into trouble.

That view has to change. Problem is a kid playing soccer in Canada aspires to play where? The odds of a kid playing in Europe are pretty slim and in all honesty a kid won't aspire to play in the CSL.

A kid playing hockey aspires to make it to the NHL if you're a boy or the Canadian Olympic team if you're a girl.

Fort York Redcoat
05-20-2010, 11:44 AM
In terms of participation numbers, especially at the youth level, soccer has been bigger than hockey for the last 20 years.

Problem is soccer has always been viewed in this country as something "to do" in the summer for a lot of kids who play hockey or something to do so kids don't get into trouble.

That view has to change. Problem is a kid playing soccer in Canada aspires to play where? The odds of a kid playing in Europe are pretty slim and in all honesty a kid won't aspire to play in the CSL.

A kid playing hockey aspires to make it to the NHL if you're a boy or the Canadian Olympic team if you're a girl.

Vic is this cut and paste from an old thread?:D The stage hasn't changed much but one Canadian city by one more kids are watching things like DeRo and JDG getting paydays here and Gabe Gala scoring against RM. If you want to scoff at the baby steps, go on. Just don't say it's not progress.

Whoop
05-20-2010, 11:47 AM
Vic is this cut and paste from an old thread?:D The stage hasn't changed much but one Canadian city by one more kids are watching things like DeRo and JDG getting paydays here and Gabe Gala scoring against RM. If you want to scoff at the baby steps, go on. Just don't say it's not progress.

I'm not scoffing at the baby steps. But dammit, it's been the same old story for the last 20 years no?

I mean when Canada qualified in '86 I didn't think I would never see Canada ever qualify for the WC again... :(

They'll tease you ever so often - the Holger Osieck era - but really if Canada wants to qualify for 2014... the CSA has to get going on it now.

People always talk about the need for a domestic league but in reality 3 MLS clubs plus some decent USL clubs in other cities is the best we can hope for really.

Whoop
05-20-2010, 11:51 AM
And the old guard at the CSA has always been trumpeted the "more kids play soccer than hockey" for the last two decades, but never translated it into anything else which has always been a huge disappointment.

Of course, keeping your little fiefdoms strong in spite of the national team or trying to increase the strength of the national team was always more important. :rolleyes: