PDA

View Full Version : GM: Fans To Be Refunded For 'Humiliating' Loss



Bloor West FC
05-09-2010, 04:30 PM
Copied from MLS Daily

Following a 4-0 steamrolling by the Los Angeles Galaxy on Saturday afternoon at Qwest Field, Seattle Sounders FC's management has decided to issue a refund for the game to their season-ticket holders. General manager Adrian Hanauer shot off an angry statement on Sunday calling the loss 'not good enough,' 'embarrassing,' and 'humiliating,' among other adjectives and offered up the 1-game refund, which will come in the form of a credit against next year's ticket package for those STH's who choose to renew.

Hanauer's statement (http://www.prostamerika.com/2010/05/09/match-so-unacceptable-fans-will-be-compensated-24045/):

"That performance last night wasn't good enough. The effort wasn't good enough. The execution wasn't good enough. The heart wasn't good enough. The passion wasn't good enough. The only thing that was good enough was our fans. So we decided that we're going to give our fans their money back for that game; our season ticket holders, the people who were with us from the beginning, and will be with us in the future. We're in this for the long haul. We need them to be in it for the long haul.

"That wasn't Sounders soccer. And it was quite frankly embarrassing, humiliating, and they don't deserve that. It'll come in the form of a credit against next year's season tickets because we want people in for the long haul. It just wasn't good enough. It's not a precedent. We don't plan on giving people money back every time we have a bad game. But as the owners of the club, we reserve the right to do whatever we think we need to do to treat our fans the way they've treated us."

Saturday's result was the most lopsided loss at home in the Sounders' short MLS history, and was only the second time ever that the team has found themselves on the wrong side of a 4-0 scoreline; they were dropped by the San Jose Earthquakes while on the road last August. To make matters worse, yesterday's crowd of 36,273 set a record for largest in Sounders history for an MLS match at Qwest Field.



Hmmm can you only imagine how much money we could have saved from previous years if this guy was our GM!

Azerban
05-09-2010, 04:33 PM
how often have we been blown out at home?

Jeffro
05-09-2010, 04:37 PM
There seems to be trouble in paradise...

Red Rat
05-09-2010, 04:39 PM
^ yes but yet I salute this.

rr

TFC USA
05-09-2010, 04:46 PM
So when Mo gets shitcanned, will MLSE give the fans free beer for 4 years?

CretanBull
05-09-2010, 04:47 PM
Amazing. Their owners view their fan base as "we need them to be in it for the long haul" so we're going to treat them right.

Our look at us like "How can I squeeze another dollar out of them, and if they don't like it there's someone on the waiting list who does!"

Chevy
05-09-2010, 04:51 PM
So when Mo gets shitcanned, will MLSE give the fans free beer for 4 years?

No, but due to the fantastic performance from the boys against Chicago, MLSE will charge season seat holders for an EXTRA game in 2011. :D

mastermixer
05-09-2010, 04:59 PM
I personally think this is a little extreme. Its one thing to apologize for a loss but giving back fans money for a blow out sets a very dangerous precedent between the fans and the owners. Blow outs are going to happen in sports just apologize and move on.

Sonny Cheeba
05-09-2010, 05:06 PM
I personally think this is a little extreme. Its one thing to apologize for a loss but giving back fans money for a blow out sets a very dangerous precedent between the fans and the owners. Blow outs are going to happen in sports just apologize and move on.

i agree....

i thought that wigan giving their traveling fans money back when they lost 9-1 to spurs was well deserved. they made the trip down to support a team that got cornholed.....but a blow out at home, that's bound to happen on more than one occasion. to offer a refund like this in the second season is a bit ridiculous.

flatpicker
05-09-2010, 05:09 PM
It's marketing.
In the long run, giving Season Ticket Holders a refund on this one game will probably end up being profitable to the team.

It will make fans love the management and team even more, and thus sell more tickets and/or ST packages.

But then (this is the skeptic in me speaking) the club will raise prices for next season and thus reclaim all losses from the refund.
(not to mention, you probably can't get the "refund" if you don't renew 2011 season tickets)

Parkdale
05-09-2010, 05:21 PM
yeah... it's marketing, and a very, very smart move.

what's the cost of refunding one game? You don't have to give back the food or beers, but the cost of one game will go a HELL of a long way towards repairing the damage done by a humiliating loss.

just goes to show what can happen when the seat holders can vote for the people running the club. You get honest apologies and a promise to make things better.

nfitz
05-09-2010, 05:24 PM
Hmmm can you only imagine how much money we could have saved from previous years if this guy was our GM!What do you mean? We've only lost about 5 MLS games at BMO from 2008 to 2010 - the worst by only 2 goals; I think the worst ever loss was the 3-0 defeat to Chicago in 2007.

The only loss at BMO I recall of a similiar magnitude was the 5-1 loss to Real Madrid; and somehow I can't imagine Seattle would be offering a refund if they lost to Real Madrid by 4 goals.

Pachuco
05-09-2010, 05:26 PM
What do you mean? We've only lost about 5 MLS games at BMO from 2008 to 2010 - the worst by only 2 goals; I think the worst ever loss was the 3-0 defeat to Chicago in 2007.

The only loss at BMO I recall of a similiar magnitude was the 5-1 loss to Real Madrid; and somehow I can't imagine Seattle would be offering a refund if they lost to Real Madrid by 4 goals.

Then I want a refund from GoalTV for having to watch the worst football I've ever seen while TFC is on the road :)

Chevy
05-09-2010, 05:38 PM
yeah... it's marketing, and a very, very smart move.

what's the cost of refunding one game? You don't have to give back the food or beers, but the cost of one game will go a HELL of a long way towards repairing the damage done by a humiliating loss.

just goes to show what can happen when the seat holders can vote for the people running the club. You get honest apologies and a promise to make things better.


Short term yes, but I'm not totally sure that in the long run this is a smart move. How many Seattle players are now feeling less accountable after that gesture from the front office?

Plus, how many deadbeats will start thinking about a refund and cheering for the opposing club every time the Sounders are down 2-0 or 3-0? How many supporters will be screaming for their cash back after every loss (based on the comments on this board after a loss - probably a good many :rolleyes:)

Time will tell.

Wagner
05-09-2010, 05:39 PM
I always thought the FO should have at least acknowledged the away supporters that went to the Debacle in New Jersey to end the season last year.

SmokedPanda
05-09-2010, 05:40 PM
FO should refund those of us that went down to New England last month to see them get their asses kicked

Shakes McQueen
05-09-2010, 06:26 PM
i agree....

i thought that wigan giving their traveling fans money back when they lost 9-1 to spurs was well deserved. they made the trip down to support a team that got cornholed.....but a blow out at home, that's bound to happen on more than one occasion. to offer a refund like this in the second season is a bit ridiculous.

I agree also.

Refunding fans for getting blown out in a vital match, or getting whomped by a ridiculous scoreline, I can understand. For example - MLSE should have offered a refund to the traveling support who saw TFC shit the bed in New York last fall.

But a 4-0 loss in week seven? It's a marketing stunt And they are only giving the "credit" to season-seat holders when they (cleverly) renew next season - not people with single ticket stubs.

- Scott

TorCanSoc
05-09-2010, 06:32 PM
I think EPL does this but for real blow outs. Like 7-0, and 9-1 kind of blow outs. 4-0 is not that extraordinarily bad. Good for Seattle FO.

Our 2009 NY clusterphk should have been somehow addressed.

Pachuco
05-09-2010, 06:41 PM
Yes it's a marketing stunt, but that doesn't mean Season Ticket Holders won't get their money back for this game. Time will tell. I'd be curious to see what the word is when they go to renew.

Don't worry guys though, we are getting Bolton for freeeeee! Cause you know, we don't pay a dime for that friendly game.

jazzy
05-09-2010, 06:49 PM
Moe and Anselmi must be pissed.....They are the corp and decision makers, we on the otherhand......just ass's in the stands, replaceable at any time.....or are we?

J .
05-09-2010, 06:53 PM
MLSE sucks...

The end...

Canary Canuck
05-09-2010, 07:20 PM
It's just a thinly veiled bribe to renew season tickets. This isn't as altruistic as they're making it look. Giving fans who RENEW a free game NEXT season is not the same as just giving money back.

Blizzard
05-09-2010, 07:29 PM
I personally think this is a little extreme. Its one thing to apologize for a loss but giving back fans money for a blow out sets a very dangerous precedent between the fans and the owners. Blow outs are going to happen in sports just apologize and move on.

I totally agree. This is a very bad precedent. Let's remember something here too. As the club and the league split attendance revenue (I do believe), the league had to go along with this.

So, what happens when struggling franchises like KC or Dallas are creamed at home? Do those teams that really can't afford to lose revenue now find themselves in the position of having to face angry supporters over the precedent of a refund in Seattle?

It's good local PR but it's potentially lousy league-wide economics!

Whoop
05-09-2010, 07:32 PM
But in this case the FO is covering the attendance revenue.

Individual teams should be able to do whatever they want.

Bad precedent or not, kudos to the FO.

ensco
05-09-2010, 07:40 PM
What do you mean? We've only lost about 5 MLS games at BMO from 2008 to 2010 - the worst by only 2 goals; I think the worst ever loss was the 3-0 defeat to Chicago in 2007.

The only loss at BMO I recall of a similiar magnitude was the 5-1 loss to Real Madrid; and somehow I can't imagine Seattle would be offering a refund if they lost to Real Madrid by 4 goals.

Whoever you are....you are totally, utterly, missing the point.

Margin of defeat was not the point for Seattle management last night.

The point is that their fans were fantastic, and deserve to be disgruntled based both on recent play and what happened in that game, and management wanted to make a gesture to their fans that made sense specific to their circumstances.

MLSE could have done something for their SSH after going out to Montreal in the 2008 NCC, or the flameout in NY last year. Both of these were far worse episodes for the Toronto SSH than Seattle's is for the Seattle SSH.

Hustle
05-09-2010, 07:49 PM
This is a case of Seatlle F.O doing something right again.

It's a good business decision for the long run and they came right out and said that.....Anselmi, are you taking notes?

Shakes McQueen
05-09-2010, 07:59 PM
This is a case of Seatlle F.O doing something right again.

It's a good business decision for the long run and they came right out and said that.....Anselmi, are you taking notes?

If you're going to give MLSE shit for this, then you might as well acknowledge all of the other teams that don't do it. Has anyone other than Seattle in MLS even done this before?

- Scott

Azerban
05-09-2010, 08:07 PM
the only thing the GM needs to do to apologize for being shit is to make the team less shit. (eg: New York, 09)

4-0 isn't even that bad, in the grand scheme

this is a dumb gimmick, which is par for the Seattle course

Shakes McQueen
05-09-2010, 08:17 PM
the only thing the GM needs to do to apologize for being shit is to make the team less shit. (eg: New York, 09)

Personally, this is my opinion too. I'll get on the GM or the FO for the team being shit, but refunds for bad losses and grousing about how good our friendly opponent is, doesn't really burn me up inside.

And it needs to be noted again that this isn't a refund. It's a small discount on next year's season tickets for people who renew. So they aren't even really "apologizing" for the team's performance, because if they were, they'd give out a refund to anyone who paid good money for a ticket to see that shit show. I'm also curious to see how much of a savings it ends up being, based on the inevitable percentage increase for ST's next year.

- Scott

T.O TILL I DIE
05-09-2010, 08:20 PM
cmon MLSE remeber new york last season we deserve refunds:(

Cashcleaner
05-09-2010, 08:36 PM
I always thought the FO should have at least acknowledged the away supporters that went to the Debacle in New Jersey to end the season last year.

While I agree that ticket refunds for bad results are little more than a gimmick, I would argue that the one time it would be warranted would be the EMBARRASSING 5-0 loss to NYRB last season.

I mean, the club certainly isn't obligated to make any sort of compensation for playing badly, but when you consider the time, money, and effort that goes into these road trips for supporters, it would have been a good show of sincerity to maybe pay back the cost of the ticket for those that made the trip.

James17930
05-09-2010, 08:40 PM
Really, really dumb and a really, really dangerous precedent.

Although, I wonder if Wigan are again going to refund their away support after last night's 8 - 0 drubbing . . .

See, they have to now, after last time. Precedents, precedents.

Besides, if the club is going to do something like this, you'd think they'd take the money from the players. After all, it's their fault.

But again, this is just stupid.

Azerban
05-09-2010, 08:41 PM
While I agree that ticket refunds for bad results are little more than a gimmick, I would argue that the one time it would be warranted would be the EMBARRASSING 5-0 loss to NYRB last season.

I mean, the club certainly isn't obligated to make any sort of compensation for playing badly, but when you consider the time, money, and effort that goes into these road trips for supporters, it would have been a good show of sincerity to maybe pay back the cost of the ticket for those that made the trip.

for every one person you'd please, you'd piss off 3 thinking that they spent X dollars on planes/buses/cars/hotels etc, and that MLSE rummaged through the couch, coughed up some change and expected it to be cool

Cashcleaner
05-09-2010, 08:45 PM
^ You could be right. In fact, you're probably dead-on. I'm just saying that if compensation were ever to be made for a bad performance, the drubbing by the hands of NYRB would be the best example of such.

MUFC_Niagara
05-09-2010, 09:27 PM
yeah... it's marketing, and a very, very smart move.

what's the cost of refunding one game? You don't have to give back the food or beers, but the cost of one game will go a HELL of a long way towards repairing the damage done by a humiliating loss.

just goes to show what can happen when the seat holders can vote for the people running the club. You get honest apologies and a promise to make things better.

It's football. Losses happen. This is rediculous and you are right....it is a marketing ploy, a shameless one at that.

twistedchinaman
05-09-2010, 10:25 PM
I personally think this is a little extreme. Its one thing to apologize for a loss but giving back fans money for a blow out sets a very dangerous precedent between the fans and the owners. Blow outs are going to happen in sports just apologize and move on.

This only gets the moochers out in people -- wait until they fail to qualify for the playoffs. Then their office will be in for it!

habstfc
05-09-2010, 11:03 PM
It's a ploy of course, ( and a very patronizing one at that) to show the seattle fans how much they are appreciated by the front office. My question is what do they consider a poor enough performance worthy of a credit next season. 3-0 or god forbid what if they lose next home game 4-0 or 5-1. Where do they go from there?

rocker
05-10-2010, 12:41 AM
what if they lose next home game 4-0 or 5-1. Where do they go from there?

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Obviously this is not something you can do for every loss of this sort. I guess if yer the GM you just hope the team gets the point and doesn't screw up again like this. But if they do, then it becomes a PR problem... Another big loss would make the gesture seem shallow.

Speaking of Seattle, Keller doesn't look as dominant this season as he did last year. Not sure if he's fighting an injury.

twistedchinaman
05-10-2010, 02:06 AM
It's a ploy of course, ( and a very patronizing one at that) to show the seattle fans how much they are appreciated by the front office. My question is what do they consider a poor enough performance worthy of a credit next season. 3-0 or god forbid what if they lose next home game 4-0 or 5-1. Where do they go from there?

It's a slippery slope -- once it starts...

Mikey
05-10-2010, 06:10 AM
LOL at the notion that ML$E would put themselves in a position of being perceived as responsible for on-field performance!!

ensco
05-10-2010, 07:06 AM
Wow. The slant on most of the comments in this thread amazes me.

This is for all of you who are being critical of Seattle's management for this because you think they are being manipulative or short-sighted or stupid:

Bah Humbug!

jaahuuu
05-10-2010, 10:17 AM
yeah... it's marketing, and a very, very smart move.

what's the cost of refunding one game? You don't have to give back the food or beers, but the cost of one game will go a HELL of a long way towards repairing the damage done by a humiliating loss.

just goes to show what can happen when the seat holders can vote for the people running the club. You get honest apologies and a promise to make things better.
I'm going to guess less than the increase in the cost of next year's season tickets.

Luca
05-10-2010, 10:38 AM
I'm not so sure the fans are going to "expect" a recoup every time the team doesn't perform or gets blown out; that's just ludicrous. It's a clever marketing move to solidify the devotion of their base SSHs that doesn't really "set the precedent" for anything at all.

EDIT: And beyond that, it's a damn good move by Seattle's FO. They know how to run an organization.

Brooker
05-10-2010, 12:12 PM
Refund because of 4-0? Wow. So what happens if they lose.... 3-0? The fans might call for refunds again!

and thank you Sounders FO for giving your fans an even BIGGER sense of entitlement. I didn't think it could be done but you've outdone yourselves.

Hustle
05-10-2010, 01:55 PM
If you're going to give MLSE shit for this, then you might as well acknowledge all of the other teams that don't do it. Has anyone other than Seattle in MLS even done this before?

- Scott

Without doing research to find out what other teams are doing as well financially as we are, I can say with certainty Seattle is.

For that reason, I look at TFC and Seattle in a different light than other MLS teams. Both have excellent overall season ticket support and for that reason I measure the way the front offices of these two clubs deal with the SSH's in situations like this as an aside from the rest of the league.

So I expect TFC Front office to be held to a higher standard than the rest of the league given the resources the fans of this team have put at their disposal.

I don't think of this move as condescending, patronizing or trend setting. I think it is a confident move by a front office that knows the value of what they have and would rather seem overly concerned in how their core supporters view the team than not concerned at all.

rocker
05-10-2010, 02:03 PM
I'm not so sure the fans are going to "expect" a recoup every time the team doesn't perform or gets blown out; that's just ludicrous. It's a clever marketing move to solidify the devotion of their base SSHs that doesn't really "set the precedent" for anything at all.

EDIT: And beyond that, it's a damn good move by Seattle's FO. They know how to run an organization.

but what if they lose 4-0 again at home this season?

a similar result totally negates the goodwill, whether or not they were to offer the refund again. Fans want the problem solved regardless of a prior refund. If the problem remains, the gesture is very shallow.

In a simple sense, it's a nice gesture. But when you think about it, it could turn around and bite them in the ass later.

I do agree with the perspective expressed on the BigSoccer boards that losing once 4-0 at home is not something you necessarily have to apologize for. Teams lose games sometimes, even at home. If it's a trend, then that's a problem. But from what I've seen from Seattle this is probably just a fluke occurrence. If Sounders fans are really that fickle that 1 loss at home like this is a major problem, then that's a bigger problem than the loss. Sounders fans have had it very good so far in their short time in the league.

We also cannot forget they lost to an undefeated team.

Phil
05-10-2010, 02:23 PM
The thing that gets me is....if most teams are stuggling finacially at the gate and lets say some of the lesser making teams start doing this.

That means the money earners are paying for poor teams under performances.

H Bomb
05-10-2010, 02:28 PM
So youre damned if you do and damned if you dont. Yall are thinking way too hard about this. And it doesnt set a precedent. Its not a court. So stop pretending there are so many rules.

ManUtd4ever
05-10-2010, 02:32 PM
Copied from MLS Daily

Following a 4-0 steamrolling by the Los Angeles Galaxy on Saturday afternoon at Qwest Field, Seattle Sounders FC's management has decided to issue a refund for the game to their season-ticket holders. General manager Adrian Hanauer shot off an angry statement on Sunday calling the loss 'not good enough,' 'embarrassing,' and 'humiliating,' among other adjectives and offered up the 1-game refund, which will come in the form of a credit against next year's ticket package for those STH's who choose to renew.

Hanauer's statement (http://www.prostamerika.com/2010/05/09/match-so-unacceptable-fans-will-be-compensated-24045/):

"That performance last night wasn't good enough. The effort wasn't good enough. The execution wasn't good enough. The heart wasn't good enough. The passion wasn't good enough. The only thing that was good enough was our fans. So we decided that we're going to give our fans their money back for that game; our season ticket holders, the people who were with us from the beginning, and will be with us in the future. We're in this for the long haul. We need them to be in it for the long haul.

"That wasn't Sounders soccer. And it was quite frankly embarrassing, humiliating, and they don't deserve that. It'll come in the form of a credit against next year's season tickets because we want people in for the long haul. It just wasn't good enough. It's not a precedent. We don't plan on giving people money back every time we have a bad game. But as the owners of the club, we reserve the right to do whatever we think we need to do to treat our fans the way they've treated us."

Saturday's result was the most lopsided loss at home in the Sounders' short MLS history, and was only the second time ever that the team has found themselves on the wrong side of a 4-0 scoreline; they were dropped by the San Jose Earthquakes while on the road last August. To make matters worse, yesterday's crowd of 36,273 set a record for largest in Sounders history for an MLS match at Qwest Field.



Hmmm can you only imagine how much money we could have saved from previous years if this guy was our GM!

It seems clear that this PR move was not intended to set any kind of precedent for future abysmal performances at Qwest Field and was meant to be a one time gesture of goodwill towards an emphatic fanbase. I think it was pure class all the way...

Don Julio
05-10-2010, 03:46 PM
Publicity, plain and simple. If they want to apologize for anything it should be their god damned shirts.

ManUtd4ever
05-10-2010, 03:49 PM
Publicity, plain and simple. If they want to apologize for anything it should be their god damned shirts.

Hahaha, agreed!

Shakes McQueen
05-10-2010, 03:49 PM
So youre damned if you do and damned if you dont. Yall are thinking way too hard about this. And it doesnt set a precedent. Its not a court. So stop pretending there are so many rules.

"Precedent" isn't just a legal term. What happens the next time Seattle loses 4-0? Should they pay out again? If not, why not?

- Scott

ensco
05-10-2010, 03:59 PM
"Precedent" isn't just a legal term. What happens the next time Seattle loses 4-0? Should they pay out again? If not, why not?

- Scott

So what.

Why should anyone care about this aspect of it?

CretanBull
05-10-2010, 04:00 PM
The real precedent that's been set is that a taking a day off and going through the motions in front of their paying fans is not acceptable. It's not the final score that the owners reacted to its the effort put forth by the team. The owners aren't calling the team out because of a particular scoreline, they're shaming them for not trying and not giving a shit. There's no new "if we lose 4-0 you get your money back" rule in place, there's a "we won't accept a complete and total lack of effort from our team and we're not afraid to take drastic measures if they do" rule in place.

All the cynics here who are calling this a marketing ploy and suggesting that the team will just raise the prices next year etc. have been the victims of shitty MLSE ownership for too long. That's the type of shit that they pull, it doesn't mean that other owners are similarly motivated.

Shakes McQueen
05-10-2010, 04:21 PM
There's no new "if we lose 4-0 you get your money back" rule in place, there's a "we won't accept a complete and total lack of effort from our team and we're not afraid to take drastic measures if they do" rule in place.

You wanna prove that? Sack the general manager, or publicly bench a bunch of starters for a couple of games.


All the cynics here who are calling this a marketing ploy and suggesting that the team will just raise the prices next year etc. have been the victims of shitty MLSE ownership for too long. That's the type of shit that they pull, it doesn't mean that other owners are similarly motivated.

As I said before, if this was motivated as a genuine message to the fans who watched that unfortunate shit show on the weekend, then give the refunds to anyone with a ticket stub from that game. They didn't. They made getting the "credit" contingent on renewing your ST's for next year, and left single ticket-buyers out completely. It was a marketing stunt, and it worked incredibly well, as it got mentioned in newspapers and blogs all across the continent.

Ironically, I don't think this point of view is being motivated by cynicism. I'm dispassionately looking at the facts of the situation, and how they went about doing it. On the other hand, I think some people on the other side of the fence are being influenced by both a) their view that MLSE are the scourge of the Earth, and b) their ongoing view that Seattle are the holy grail of wholly benevolent team ownership.

- Scott

Hustle
05-10-2010, 04:27 PM
^Bench Starters and lose more games? How is that going to make things better?

Giving refunds to every ticket holder is logistic nightmare. They can control the SSH and those are the people that shell out thousands a year. They are the ones you want to take care of.

Again, something is better than nothing, and I would take this over what we get anyday. What do we get? Mo:"Please be patient". lol.

Shakes McQueen
05-10-2010, 04:30 PM
^Bench Starters and lose more games? How is that going to make things better?

Giving refunds to every ticket holder is logistic nightmare. They can control the SSH and those are the people that shell out thousands a year. They are the ones you want to take care of.

Again, something is better than nothing, and I would take this over what we get anyday. What do we get? Mo:"Please be patient". lol.

I'd take it over what we have gotten so far, sure. But then again, we haven't gotten a thing. I think what we should be getting is Mo Johnston's head on a pike, and an assurance from Anselmi that they won't make the same mistake again. That would mean infinitely more to me in regards to the seriousness of ownership, than giving me a $30 "credit" when I renew my ST's that likely cost over $1000.

- Scott

jaxul
05-10-2010, 04:31 PM
I don't really agree with the refunds...when you buy tickets for a pro sports event you agree that you take the risk that your team will be blow out.

I would just not have paid the players for that game if possible. Fredde's salary for a game should cover the cost of most tickets then pass that on as savings, incentives...freebies etc. :D

Beach_Red
05-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Ironically, I don't think this point of view is being motivated by cynicism. I'm dispassionately looking at the facts of the situation, and how they went about doing it. On the other hand, I think some people on the other side of the fence are being influenced by both a) their view that MLSE are the scourge of the Earth, and b) their ongoing view that Seattle are the holy grail of wholly benevolent team ownership.

- Scott


No, I for one am looking at it dispassionately and coming to the conclusion that MLSE put as little as possible into the team and the Seattle ownership put in more. MLSE joined the league and talked about being cometitive in five years and Seattle joined with a DP in place, a championship winning coach and a full front office.

This isn't emotional. These are the facts.

ensco
05-10-2010, 04:35 PM
Sure, it was marketing. But it cost them real dollars. They directed those dollars towards a subset of their customers that they care most about.

If the intention was to generate publicity, so what? Is that so bad?

I seriously don't get what the problem is. I would like to think that moves like Seattle's give MLSE something to think about. Imagine being worried about how on field performance is affecting your best customers!

Instead, numerous people here give our ownership every excuse to just keep doing what they're doing.

Shakes McQueen
05-10-2010, 04:41 PM
Sure, it was marketing. But it cost them real dollars. They directed those dollars towards a subset of their customers that they care most about.

If the intention was to generate publicity, so what? Is that so bad?

I don't get what the problem is.

Is it "bad"? Of course not. The argument was never that they were doing something shitty - though as others have pointed out, setting a precedent that refunding tickets is the norm when your comes out and plays a lethargic game, is not a good idea. Shitty losses are a part of sports, and are part of the package you buy into as a fan of any team.

I'm pushing back against this notion that they were doing it as some sort of genuine, "bottom of their heart" message to their fans, because the Sounders' ownership are just wonderful.

I think it would have been nice for MLSE to offer refunds to the fans who came out to watch then lose 5-0 in New York last year, because that was a crucial game, and they played like absolute dog bollocks for 90 minutes. That is the kind of scenario in which I think this would have been a great gesture. But a bad home loss in week eight of thirty? Come on.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
05-10-2010, 04:44 PM
No, I for one am looking at it dispassionately and coming to the conclusion that MLSE put as little as possible into the team and the Seattle ownership put in more. MLSE joined the league and talked about being cometitive in five years and Seattle joined with a DP in place, a championship winning coach and a full front office.

This isn't emotional. These are the facts.

This isn't what is being discussed here. We are discussing the merits and logic of this particular gesture from the Sounders.

I swear, you must have the above paragraph tattooed on the inside of your eyelids by now BR, haha.

- Scott

Beach_Red
05-10-2010, 05:07 PM
This isn't what is being discussed here. We are discussing the merits and logic of this particular gesture from the Sounders.

I swear, you must have the above paragraph tattooed on the inside of your eyelids by now BR, haha.

- Scott


They make it too easy for me ;).

Phil
05-10-2010, 05:23 PM
LOL, its a single entity league. My guess is the MLS wont like this move one bit.

Concept is great but I wouldnt ever want to pay for Columbus fans experience when they get played off the pitch.

H Bomb
05-10-2010, 05:43 PM
This isn't what is being discussed here. We are discussing the merits and logic of this particular gesture from the Sounders.


- Scott

Kay then. The merits...the fans dont feel like atm machines.
The logic...to make fans feel better about a crappy loss.
All the other crap about precedent and other teams should be(and was) ignored by seattles fo. Because none of it matters compared to the fans of the team. Im not angry about or jealous of seattle, that would just be a waste of time. But they are the prototype of quality that others in the league should follow. We are the opposite.

AL-MO
05-10-2010, 05:52 PM
The only refund we should have ever received were for the fans who traveled to New York to watch that shit kicking last year.

Gazza_55
05-10-2010, 06:24 PM
It's marketing.
In the long run, giving Season Ticket Holders a refund on this one game will probably end up being profitable to the team.

It will make fans love the management and team even more, and thus sell more tickets and/or ST packages.

But then (this is the skeptic in me speaking) the club will raise prices for next season and thus reclaim all losses from the refund.
(not to mention, you probably can't get the "refund" if you don't renew 2011 season tickets)

The fans that purchased season tickets in year 1 had their price locked in for the first 3 years.

This was an incredible gesture by a club that frankly doesn't have to care about its fans. I really can't believe people are knocking them.

Roogsy
05-10-2010, 06:39 PM
The fans that purchased season tickets in year 1 had their price locked in for the first 3 years.

:eek:

This absolutely without a doubt should have been done by TFC as well.

Roogsy
05-10-2010, 06:40 PM
The only refund we should have ever received were for the fans who traveled to New York to watch that shit kicking last year.

It hurts my anus every time I remember that disaster.

Shakes McQueen
05-10-2010, 06:43 PM
:eek:

This absolutely without a doubt should have been done by TFC as well.

I can get behind that. To be honest, I'm surprised MLSE didn't go that route, back when they weren't sure how successful ticket sales would be.

- Scott

ag futbol
05-10-2010, 06:44 PM
The fans that purchased season tickets in year 1 had their price locked in for the first 3 years.

This was an incredible gesture by a club that frankly doesn't have to care about its fans. I really can't believe people are knocking them.
Well when you put that out there it makes it a lot harder to be cynical.

Don't think MLS HQ will be too impressed, but then again when you consider the size of some of the clubs in this league (Seattle, TFC, LA) compared to the whole collective, they can pretty well tell them to stuff it.

Still waiting for my Mo Johnston rebate...

Shakes McQueen
05-10-2010, 06:51 PM
Still waiting for my Mo Johnston rebate...

I think Mo should just be pilloried outside BMO Field before one of our home games, and STH's should be able to line up and take turns kicking him in the ass.

- Scott

Suds
05-10-2010, 07:52 PM
I think Mo should just be pilloried outside BMO Field before one of our home games, and STH's should be able to line up and take turns kicking him in the ass.

- Scott

now that I'd pay for!

P-NUTZ
05-14-2010, 02:19 PM
sweet.