Player Ratings: Chicago v. TFC

[Lucky Strike]

Hey guys, just to let you know as usual the player ratings will be found here later on. They won't be up right after the match as I've got something elsewhere but stay tuned they will come. Good luck to the guys today!

[Dub Narcotic]

Frei. 7.5. I'm not always a Frei believer, but he was good today. Kicked well into the wind.
Usanov. 6.5 Let Nyarko get behind him too much but battled well.
Cann 7.5 Good in the air, always safety-first. Good enough.
Attakora 7 Was at fault for the corner that led to the first goal. Like Cann, needs to work on his touch, unlike Cann, that may be feasible.
Gargan. 5 Not his position at LB, but... This area needs an upgrade, some one calm on the ball who can help build from the back.
Peterson. 5. Anonymous.
De Guzman. 8 Solid game, some giveaways.
Gomez. 6.5 Good in the air, like him better than Saric, hope he's not hurt badly. Touch and passing has to be better.
LaBrocca. 7 Good set pieces, not totally convinced.
De Rosario. 8. Usual De Rosario game, missed his one chance.
Barrett. 9 One of TFC's best players all year, is the finishing for real?
White. 7.5 Good goal and setup, still needs to be able to hold the ball up.

[Pachuco]

You lose All credibilty when you rate a guy who's been injured all season and didn't even dress. Then you give jdg an 8. Personally, There were alot better players on the field today for Toronto.

[Shakes McQueen]

You lose All credibilty when you rate a guy who's been injured all season and didn't even dress. Then you give jdg an 8. Personally, There were alot better players on the field today for Toronto.

He accidentally switched Sanyang and Gomez's names. No big deal.

I actually agree with a 7.5 or 8 for JDG. No flashy plays today, but I constantly saw him bossing the midfield, telling guys where to be, etc.

- Scott

[Lucky Strike]

Wow, I did not see that coming but it feels very good. A very good performance which saw a number of things come together which usually do not go for us, lucky goals, lucky calls, counter-attacking football and clinical finishing to mention a few.

Frei (7): Wasn’t overly solicited during the match but did make a good reaction save. Also came out effectively and I feel had a better control of the area.
Usanov (5): Though TFC enjoyed a very good game, I thought Usanov had a difficult afternoon. Though early in the game he drew a foul in a dangerous area, little good came afterwards. Most importantly, he steamrolled I believe was McBride in the box while trying to get to Nyarko who was threatening the goal. I was astonished the referee didn’t whistle for a penalty which in all likelihood would have resulted in the game being level 2-2 and a very different ending from 4-1.
Attakora (6): Good as usual but did get burned near the end of the game as John got behind him. Fortunately, no damage.
Cann (6.5): Wasn’t really seen in the match, always a good thing for a CB. It wasn’t until CBC showed a replay pack of Cann’s work throughout the day that I realized how instrumental he was. Did pick up an unnecessary booking though.
Gargan (5): The other TFC player who had a hard day at the office. Got beat a few times, misplaced a number of passes, got clattered (though that doesn’t affect his rating) and was generally not at his best.
Peterson (5.5): First start of the year which indicates he’s getting his fitness back, but wasn’t a factor today. He’s been better against tired legs later in the game but it’s only start to judge so make of that what you will.
Sanyang (6.5): I like what he brings more and more. Very obvious in breaking plays up, good physicality and not afraid to get stuck in, sometimes to his detriment but I think he can create doubt and hesitation in the opponents. Fear the Amadou.
DeGuzman (6.5): It occurred to me that I might be looking at JDG the wrong way in rating him. I still am waiting for him to play better but he was effective today in that he was attracting 2-3 guys whenever he had the ball thereby creating space for others. This is good and useful but caused by his name more than his play and he’s going to have to step up.
LaBrocca (6.5): Another guy who had a good game. I sound like a jerk to say it, but you can’t really give credit to him for scoring but at least it looked like he knew that during his interview. He played a ball into the box which I thought was a little high to be effective but it meant the wind picked it up and swept into the net. Outside from that, I thought he had a good passing game.
DeRosario (7): Couple of assists today to go with his boatload of goals and another quality performance from the skipper with two well-weighted passes for goals. Good stuff.
Barrett (7.5): Really happy to see him get a brace today, I always say it he works so hard and was rewarded today. People get on him for not being clinical but he was Dr. Barrett today and no, that’s not a soap opera. Two very well taken goals.

White, on for Peterson – 46th minute (7): Quite the impact substitution there. Comes on, spots DeRo and makes a run to the net. Almost Kei Kamara’d it but it was enough. Also made a perfect pass to Barrett who had the easiest of finishes. That’s not to belittle Barrett’s effort, but rather to compliment White.
Saric, on for Sanyang – 69th minute (6): I’ve mentioned it before but this is a guy who doesn’t make himself seen much aside from when he’s playing the part of Destruct-o. In fact, I didn’t notice his substitution until minutes later. No real impact on the match and was probably in just because Sanyang is coming back from an injury.
Hscanovics, on for DeRosario – 74th minute (6): No real even that would cause an increase or decrease in rating. Not sure what the reasoning was behind starting Gargan over him, but I think he’ll draw back on the XI next match.

Preki (7): A pretty standard 4-4-2 at home against a defensive 4-5-1. Preki looks like a genius inserting White for a goal and assist inside 20-25 minutes but I think it was more because Peterson was ineffective so he came out, DeRo fell back to midfield and White was inserted as a new partner to Barrett. I’m a little confused/annoyed by Saric seeing the pitch over Cronin, I do wonder what the story is there. I’m not implying anything sinister so don’t start rumours but I think Cronin has more to offer.

Referee (5): A poor performance from the man in yellow. It seemed all 50-50 calls were going against TFC and he missed what I felt was a pretty blatant barge by Usanov in the box.

TFC MOTM: Chad Barrett. Two cool finishes will net him the award over DeRosario but just barely. White also gets an honourable mention as well.

Most impressed by opposition’s: Patrick Nyarko. He really looked like he was the only Chicago player likely to make anything happen. Sure Logan Pause had the long bomb but that was just Mother Nature being fair following the LaBrocca goal.

Least impressed by opposition’s: Not to rub salt in the wound, but this is tough choice. For their reputation, I thought McBride and John were poor, the midfield was anonymous, the defence ineffective and the keeper shaky. So what to do? I’ll go with the defensive corps as a unit who left Dykstra at sea on all goals except the first one.

Conclusion: A complete game by TFC where I expected really just a lousy 0-0 effort because of the conditions. I thought our boys made the most of the wind in the first half and when they kept the ball low in the second against the wind, good things happened. Excellent work.

[Pachuco]

He accidentThere ally switched Sanyang and Gomez's names. No big deal.

I actually agree with a 7.5 or 8 for JDG. No flashy plays today, but I constantly saw him bossing the midfield, telling guys where to be, etc.

- Scott

There is no way in he'll JDG was the second best player on the field for tfc today. I actually thought he was one of the worst. Lazy tacked again and lazy passes again. I've just about had it with him.

[spot-on]

There is no way in he'll JDG was the second best player on the field for tfc today. I actually thought he was one of the worst. Lazy tacked again and lazy passes again. I've just about had it with him.

One of the worst? Certainly not...

[dannyd]

There is no way in he'll JDG was the second best player on the field for tfc today. I actually thought he was one of the worst. Lazy tacked again and lazy passes again. I've just about had it with him.

I agree, he gave up possession too easily many times. I don't understand why people rated Frei so highly today either, he had so many miskicks and was slow coming out. If we had played an opponent who wasn't so sleepy, he would have been exploited.
DeRo was man of the match for me, with LaBrocca and Adrian Cann a close second. It's funny, DeGuz is supposed to be our DP Defensive Mid, but Labrocca defends better than him. Our fullbacks can not defend 1v1 for the life of them.
White had a great game, but can someone tell be how a guy his size and strength can not shield the ball or hold-off opponents?! Maybe he doesn't know thats part of the game.
It's obvious there's a few guys carrying our team on their shoulders. Hopefully the rest of the players can step ot up soon.

[TFCRegina]

People are bashing JDG? I thought his passing and ball control was pretty decent today...

[dannyd]

People are bashing JDG? I thought his passing and ball control was pretty decent today...

Yes, his passing ability and ball control are good. But those are basic skills that any professional should have. He gave up possession at least 15-20 times today, and he let Conde dribble through him on at least a few occasions. He needs to step it up.

[FluSH]

Any chance of rating the commentators for those that couldn't attend the game...

Nigel Reed = 8.5

[dannyd]

Terry Vaughan = 1.0
He needs someone to explain to him what a foul is (ie running into someone doesn't mean they fouled you). I would be willing to give him my advice if I had a chance.

[Shakes McQueen]

Yes, his passing ability and ball control are good. But those are basic skills that any professional should have. He gave up possession at least 15-20 times today, and he let Conde dribble through him on at least a few occasions. He needs to step it up.

Passing ability and ball control are absolutely not basic skills that most, let alone all MLS players have.

In the EPL or La Liga? Sure.

- Scott

[TFCREDNWHITE]

There is no way in he'll JDG was the second best player on the field for tfc today. I actually thought he was one of the worst. Lazy tacked again and lazy passes again. I've just about had it with him.


Man, you really need to get your eyes checked....you really don't know what quality in the "worlds" game is? Do you??

Were you at the game?? because next time...You should watch Julian ON and OFF the ball....He is the only player in our midfield currently that controls our rhythm and tempo. His field vision is far superior to many in this league. Watch him as he links..(keyword there LINKS) the back to the front!


Your bashing of Julian is truely a slap in the face of the "Beautiful Game"

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Passing ability and ball control are absolutely not basic skills that most, let alone all MLS players have.

In the EPL or La Liga? Sure.

- Scott

thank you.

Passing ability and ball control are sooooo not givens in MLS

[dannyd]

Passing ability and ball control are absolutely not basic skills that most, let alone all MLS players have.

In the EPL or La Liga? Sure.

- Scott

you're right about that. Although it should be a pre-requisite, it's not it this league. I don't mean to come across as bashing him. Not to mention he is a target of tight marking by opposing teams.
Most games this season, I've felt that him and DeRo are our best players. His technique is superior to most in the whole league. I just thought he gave away possession too much today. And he let Conde waltz through the midfield on more than one occasion. Heck, I've even seen DeRo have an occasional bad game.

[trane]

^ I have a hard time understanding how anyone would rate JDG poorly today. Worst on the pitch. He played his role as well as anyone could.

Barrett had three great finishes, one was just stoped by a great save. BUT De Ro was trully world class at points today, his pass on the third goal was worthy of a Pirlo/kaka, perfect pass perfect vision. I largely agree with the ratings as a whole, which is unussual.

[Pachuco]

Man, you really need to get your eyes checked....you really don't know what quality in the "worlds" game is? Do you??

Were you at the game?? because next time...You should watch Julian ON and OFF the ball....He is the only player in our midfield currently that controls our rhythm and tempo. His field vision is far superior to many in this league. Watch him as he links..(keyword there LINKS) the back to the front!


Your bashing of Julian is truely a slap in the face of the "Beautiful Game"

My bashing of Julian is well deserved. Labrocca was BY FAR the better midfielder today. He was all over the place, and rarely gave up the ball. JDG gave up the ball more times then I could count and made attempted tackles that made him look like a female on the pitch. You need to open your eyes and stop pretending to see the JDG that played in La Liga cause he sure as hell ain't playing that way here. Does he have quality? YES of course he does. Does he put it together on the pitch? Most times he doesn't.

And listen, I'm not the only one saying this in this thread and I certainly haven't been the first to bash JDG this year. This is the 10th time I tell you to stop quoting me, I could care less about your opinion, you proved to me you are nothing but a troll the day you accused me of liking Garcia :facepalm:.

[dannyd]

^ I have a hard time understanding how anyone would rate JDG poorly today. Worst on the pitch. He played his role as well as anyone could.

Barrett had three great finishes, one was just stoped by a great save. BUT De Ro was trully world class at points today, his pass on the third goal was worthy of a Pirlo/kaka, perfect pass perfect vision. I largely agree with the ratings as a whole, which is unussual.

I don't mean to rate him poorly, he was not the worst player for us today. It was just in response to him being rated the same as DeRo. As well as he played, I'm sorry but you can't give up possession so much and be rated as one of the best 2-3 players today. For me Labrocca and DeRo played better in the midfield today than JDG. Thats just my opinion, but what do I know...

[boysblue]

JDG was better today than he has been for most of the early season. He appeared a bit more confident on the ball and certainly more interested in "running the show". He gave it away a few times, sure, but he was on the ball all afternoon, so perhaps this skews the number of poor passes he made. Still think he needs to get forward more though.

I was impressed by Sanyang, and not for the first time. A bit raw and unconvincing on the ball, but he is brave and gets stuck in like a Trojan (the warrior, not the condom). This kid will be a beauty for TFC and I see him playing in this league for a long time.

[Stryker]

Any chance of rating the commentators for those that couldn't attend the game...

Nigel Reed = 8.5

''It's all right for O'Brien White".

[Dub Narcotic]

I don't mean to rate him poorly, he was not the worst player for us today. It was just in response to him being rated the same as DeRo. As well as he played, I'm sorry but you can't give up possession so much and be rated as one of the best 2-3 players today. For me Labrocca and DeRo played better in the midfield today than JDG. Thats just my opinion, but what do I know...

I agree with both viewpoints, in a way. JDG makes himself available so much, and in such tight areas, that he is bound to do more good things, and more bad things, with the ball, than most other players. I don't think that that very valuable play should be punished by a poor rating. On the other hand, he was walked around quite a few times today, including by Conde, a CB, at least once, and had some fairly egregious giveaways where he had time to do better.

[dannyd]

Man, you really need to get your eyes checked....you really don't know what quality in the "worlds" game is? Do you??

Were you at the game?? because next time...You should watch Julian ON and OFF the ball....He is the only player in our midfield currently that controls our rhythm and tempo. His field vision is far superior to many in this league. Watch him as he links..(keyword there LINKS) the back to the front!


Your bashing of Julian is truely a slap in the face of the "Beautiful Game"

I don't think it's fair to patronize a fellow TFC supporter like that. Pachuco makes some good points and has some interesting opinions. You can disagree with him, but I don't think you have the right to tell him what to do or what to say.

[Pachuco]

I agree with both viewpoints, in a way. JDG makes himself available so much, and in such tight areas, that he is bound to do more good things, and more bad things, with the ball, than most other players. I don't think that that very valuable play should be punished by a poor rating. On the other hand, he was walked around quite a few times today, including by Conde, a CB, at least once, and had some fairly egregious giveaways where he had time to do better.

Dub, your description of JDG today is a good one. I don't disagree with anything you said here. I'm not sure how your rating of an 8 (second highest rating) is reflective of this though. I'm personally extra hard on JDG because at the end of the day he really should be the one grabbing this team by the balls and I don't see that from him.

I also think Labrocca had a really really good game (forget the goal cause I don't even count that for him :)) but he was really all over the place and making himself available to provide a solid link in the midfield therefore I have to think Labrocca deserves a better rating then JDG on this day.

[sulfur]

My impressions:

JDG and Sanyang are starting to work very well together in the midfield. JDG was doing a much better job of controlling the play through the middle, and ran back a lot to pick up the ball deep in the TFC end a lot, especially in the second half when playing into the wind.

Barrett? I've been called a Barrett apologist ever since he joined TFC. I thought that he was unlucky not to bag the hat-trick against his old team. Funniest Char moment? When the Fire fans were cheering "Chi-cago reject" and he buried OBW's pass.

DeRo? Decent. Not his best game, but he had some amazing moments, like the breakaway pass for Barrett's second.

Most amusing player of the game? Usanov. When he nailed a guy with a slide tackle (getting the ball) and that guy fell into another Fire player, the ref waved "play on, advantage to TFC..." Usanov got up and you could tell that he knew that he was untouchable from that point on! :)

Best goal of the day? The Chicago goal. That was a stunner of a shot. No wind involved there. Just pure skill.

Most amusing? LaBrocca's. That was funny as shit. Especially since I've had that happen to me (as the GK).

[dannyd]

Dub, your description of JDG today is a good one. I don't disagree with anything you said here. I'm not sure how your rating of an 8 (second highest rating) is reflective of this though. I'm personally extra hard on JDG because at the end of the day he really should be the one grabbing this team by the balls and I don't see that from him.

I also think Labrocca had a really really good game (forget the goal cause I don't even count that for him :)) but he was really all over the place and making himself available to provide a solid link in the midfield therefore I have to think Labrocca deserves a better rating then JDG on this day.

Labrocca stood out for me with his defensive work, it was exceptional today. He also has good vision going forward, but today he defended better than our two wing-backs, maybe even as well as Cann and Attakora. Honestly, I'm starting to think Preki should use him as a left back lol, god knows we need one.

[trane]

DeRo? Decent. Not his best game, but he had some amazing moments, like the breakaway pass for Barrett's second.


I think that has to do with him being on the wing, while he was effective playing him out there just keeps to much play away from him.

[[NBF]]

Good ratings: I agree with the majority of it. It was a hard game to watch on TV, i was trying to stay focused:deadhorse:

DeGUZMAN & Some Recentment From Teammates: I have to say that the players that were more physically built had a better game than a player like DeGuzman because of the conditions, but it almost seemed like he was giving orders to some players and they recented being told what to do. Specifically, on a Free Kick, I noticed that DeGuzman was arguing with a teammate about where to stand, the other player was telling DeGuzman to either leave "The Wall" or get closer and the two argued to the last minute, where the Fire played a 1-2 and DeGuzman rushed the ball to make the block. Other instances it looked like DeGuzman's passes were being curtailed by the wind and his teammates just threw their hands up "like WTF".

The REF: Horrid, either way, it benefited noone.

Dykstra: This guy deserves part of the blame he's too much like Brian Edwards and was caught out of place in the 1st goal. 2nd goal, he did his best to block it, but good effort by White. 3rd goal, Thats the type of goal that a effort/scrappy player like Barrett gets when he's running hard forward and not tracking back. The 4th goal: He looked like he wanted nothing to do with todays game. Barrett took advantage of a hurt seal. Good finishing by Barrett.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

;1016268']Good ratings: I agree with the majority of it. It was a hard game to watch on TV, i was trying to stay focused:deadhorse:

DeGUZMAN & Some Recentment From Teammates: I have to say that the players that were more physically built had a better game than a player like DeGuzman because of the conditions, but it almost seemed like he was giving orders to some players and they recented being told what to do. Specifically, on a Free Kick, I noticed that DeGuzman was arguing with a teammate about where to stand, the other player was telling DeGuzman to either leave "The Wall" or get closer and the two argued to the last minute, where the Fire played a 1-2 and DeGuzman rushed the ball to make the block. Other instances it looked like DeGuzman's passes were being curtailed by the wind and his teammates just threw their hands up "like WTF".

The REF: Horrid, either way, it benefited noone.

Dykstra: This guy deserves part of the blame he's too much like Brian Edwards and was caught out of place in the 1st goal. 2nd goal, he did his best to block it, but good effort by White. 3rd goal, Thats the type of goal that a effort/scrappy player like Barrett gets when he's running hard forward and not tracking back. The 4th goal: He looked like he wanted nothing to do with todays game. Barrett took advantage of a hurt seal. Good finishing by Barrett.

Spot on, there were some just strange calls today, when Conde headed the ball out on set piece (maybe it was a corner) and the ref. gave Chicago a goal kick. I have no idea what he the ref. was thinking, there wasn't even a TFC player close enough for a touch. One think I like about gridiron football is that the refs, announces what the infractions are, when you're watching soccer there's a lot of guessing.

[mmmikey]

No offense pachuco but u appear to have a real grudge against jdg.. Constantly slag him to no end. Is it possible that some early off key performances are coloring your judgement of him? This is rivaling mightys hating on dero!! (lol ok maybe that's not possible)

definitely agree on others observations of sanyang.. I really feel tfc offers much more as a unit when he starts over saric. His red haze seems to be showing up less too..

[rocker]

The ref and assistants were very inconsistent yesterday. And they often missed obvious calls on plays that occurred right in front of their eyes. Thankfully none affected the overall score since TFC made sure of that!

[TFC_4_Life]

Dub, your description of JDG today is a good one. I don't disagree with anything you said here. I'm not sure how your rating of an 8 (second highest rating) is reflective of this though. I'm personally extra hard on JDG because at the end of the day he really should be the one grabbing this team by the balls and I don't see that from him.

I also think Labrocca had a really really good game (forget the goal cause I don't even count that for him :)) but he was really all over the place and making himself available to provide a solid link in the midfield therefore I have to think Labrocca deserves a better rating then JDG on this day.

I think the rating system needs to be clarified a little bit. Are we rating players based on our expectations because of their reputation or are we rating them based on what they contributed in the match not making judgements based on how much they are paid or their career status.

If the rating is purely based on what they do on the field, regardless of pay scale etc then I really do not see how you can possibly make the argument that Labrocca played better the JDG.

Did JDG give the ball away unneeded on a couple possessions...yes. But there are countless times where he is swarmed by 2-3 players and calmly just turns, controlled and makes a pass out of danger. This type of play is something that no body else on our team can do with consistency (accept maybe DeRo but in a more attacking role with less chance of punishment) and something that is so easily overlooked and undervalued. Labrocca had a good game, but JDG played better then him. Defensively he got beat a couple times but at he also pressured the ball all game long forcing opponents to either turn over the ball or make negative (i.e non offensive) passes. This was probably JDG second best game as a red, he was constantly involved in the play. It is becoming obvious that he is adapting to the style of play of MLS and that his teammates are also adapting to playing around him.

JDG does all the little things that can easily be overlooked but are so so vital to the game. If you are looking for someone to make highlight reel plays and you are going to judge him based on his ability to do this then you are way off base with your analysis of JDG.

[dannyd]

The ref and assistants were very inconsistent yesterday. And they often missed obvious calls on plays that occurred right in front of their eyes. Thankfully none affected the overall score since TFC made sure of that!

One thing I noticed is Barrett really needs to stop moaning to the ref. You can see the ref had it in for us, and it started after a couple of chirps from Barrett. It doesn't help our team at all, he needs to keep his head up and get on with the game. A couple times he actually stopped playing while complaining and let the opponent go by him.
Look at Cann on the other hand. Even when he gets a bad call against him, he just gets back into position and gets on with the game. Barret could learn something from him.

[Pachuco]

No offense pachuco but u appear to have a real grudge against jdg.. Constantly slag him to no end. Is it possible that some early off key performances are coloring your judgement of him? This is rivaling mightys hating on dero!! (lol ok maybe that's not possible)

definitely agree on others observations of sanyang.. I really feel tfc offers much more as a unit when he starts over saric. His red haze seems to be showing up less too..

Nope, not at all. 2 games ago JDG had his best game as a red and I was one of the first to be happy for him and commented on it. Nobody wants him to succeed more then me. And I also don't have a hate on for JDG. He's exactly the type of player I love to watch. Look the Mighty situation with Dero was obviously a personal hate for whatever reason. But I'm not the only one saying JDG isn't performing. Even if you look at the rating from Lucky, he puts JDG somwhere closer to where I feel he should be. I might give him a .5 less then him but that's splitting hairs. He certainly wasn't one of our best players on the field yesterday. I expect our DP to BE THE BEST without a doubt. You know, kinda like Dero does every game.

And TFC4LIFE, I know very well where JDG plays, and what types of plays he should be making. No I don't expect highlight reals. I expect hard tackles and good ball distribution. There was one attempted tackle yesterday from JDG that reminded me of a house league player. he does that once a game. On top of that his ball distribution hasn't been very good, most people have admitted that, they would just rather blame all the players around him for not moving then himself.

I know I look like I have an agenda v JDG, but the truth is I'm extra hard on him, as we all should be. He's making way too much money to see mediocre performances from him day in and out.

[habstfc]

JDG performance yesterday was mediocre? I'm not one for name calling, but you are ridiculous man.

[Carts]

People look at JDG two ways: either its roses or nails...

He can do nothing, and people will say he's great...

He can play awesome, and people will say he was mediocre or poor...

I fall in that category too - since he's our DP and I expect a lot...

So, I'll fall on the view of my father - who was a professional footballer in Ireland & England (none of the big clubs) before coming to Canada...

My dads quote: "...that De Guzman, either he's having an off day or robbing your club blind, he's not worth millions..."

My dad is smart enough to know that people have bad outings etc, and yesterday JDG had one of those... He was not excellent, he was not DP worthy, he was "just another player on the pitch"...

He can play much better - he has played much better...

But yesterday, he was not the best player, 2nd best, 3rd best, 4th best etc...

If he name was Chad Barret - people would be screaming for him to be cut...

Its shocking that a player, who hasn't "earned his keep" yet, is given every chance in the book from supporters...

Against Seattle, he was our top player on the pitch... Collecting, keeping, distributing the ball... He was a DP player who controlled the match and made it our game...

Yesterday, he wasn't close to that...

But that happens... Not everyone is great every game... But people need to call a spade a spade when he does play "average" (not poorly, he wasn't poor) and say he played average... The good thing is, average for him still means he's impacting the game - but he wasn't the top, or 2nd best etc yesterday...

Carts...

[Pachuco]

JDG performance yesterday was mediocre? I'm not one for name calling, but you are ridiculous man.

Yeah well, you're a Habs fan.

That's about as insightfull as your post isn't it?

[jloome]

Thought DeGuzman had a good game, not a great game.

Frei - 7.5
Usanov - 5.5 (his positioning could have killed us a few times but their passing was shit.)
Attakora - 6
Cann - 7
Gargan - 5
Peterson - 6
Labrocca - 7
Sanyang - 6.5
DeGuzman - 6.5
DeRosario - 7.5
Barrett - 8

White - 8
Saric - 6.5
Hscanovic - 6

[Pachuco]

People look at JDG two ways: either its roses or nails...

He can do nothing, and people will say he's great...

He can play awesome, and people will say he was mediocre or poor...

I fall in that category too - since he's our DP and I expect a lot...

So, I'll fall on the view of my father - who was a professional footballer in Ireland & England (none of the big clubs) before coming to Canada...

My dads quote: "...that De Guzman, either he's having an off day or robbing your club blind, he's not worth millions..."

My dad is smart enough to know that people have bad outings etc, and yesterday JDG had one of those... He was not excellent, he was not DP worthy, he was "just another player on the pitch"...

He can play much better - he has played much better...

But yesterday, he was not the best player, 2nd best, 3rd best, 4th best etc...

If he name was Chad Barret - people would be screaming for him to be cut...

Its shocking that a player, who hasn't "earned his keep" yet, is given every chance in the book from supporters...

Against Seattle, he was our top player on the pitch... Collecting, keeping, distributing the ball... He was a DP player who controlled the match and made it our game...

Yesterday, he wasn't close to that...

But that happens... Not everyone is great every game... But people need to call a spade a spade when he does play "average" (not poorly, he wasn't poor) and say he played average... The good thing is, average for him still means he's impacting the game - but he wasn't the top, or 2nd best etc yesterday...

Carts...

This is very well put. To me it's all about perspective. If JDG took a pay cut next year and was making somewhere around 300K-350K then I may not be so hard on him. The fact of the matter is right now he's tying up a very important DP spot and he ain't giving us much more then we could get for that kind of money. I get why Mo had to overpay him in order to get him here in Toronto, but I won't understand if after 2 years he actually signs as a DP again unless he significantly improves his game. I believe his stock has dropped significantly since he played his last game in La liga and he may not have a choice but to take a pay cut.

[flatpicker]

I still don't think we have seen what De Guzman is capable of.

So far, I don't think he is earning his full wage.

I admit, he does get double and triple teamed by opposition, and that can cause problems,
But I think he should be better than what we have seen so far.

Don't get me wrong, I like him as a player,
But considering what he is paid, he should be more dominant.

[deltox]

maybe we should give JDG some time.

time to get used to the team...style of play.... the league.


you know ...its still new to him....10 pre-season games and 8 in season games isnt nearly enough time for our highest paid player to start playing his best.




:rolleyes5:

[habstfc]

Where you even at the game yesterday? JDG played well, what game were you watching? He did the job that a defensive midfielder is supposed to do, he broke up plays, had the midfield and defense organized and distributed the ball very well. You do know that's his role don't you?

If you have a problem spending that kind of money on a defensive player then fine I can see that argument, but saying things like he's mediocre, and dissappointing in his play, is completely asssanine. Over the last 4 or 5 games him and dero have been our best players. Yesterday he had at least 50 touches of the ball, of course some of his passes aren't going to be completed, but the majority were, with many being high risk or lower percentage passes. If we get 3 or 4 goals out of him this year I'll be happy, but if you're expecting more than that you have little or no undersatnding of his role on the field. What do you think his role out there is?

If you want DP money to be spent on a striker and not on a DMF ok I get it. TFC is paying him fair market value for a player of his pedigree. He had many offers to play in europe for similar money.

I'm a habs fan what's that got to do with it? You must be a real scholar to make a comment like that.

[Pachuco]

Where you even at the game yesterday? JDG played well, what game were you watching? He did the job that a defensive midfielder is supposed to do, he broke up plays, had the midfield and defense organized and distributed the ball very well. You do know that's his role don't you?

If you have a problem spending that kind of money on a defensive player then fine I can see that argument, but saying things like he's mediocre, and dissappointing in his play, is completely asssanine. Over the last 4 or 5 games him and dero have been our best players. Yesterday he had at least 50 touches of the ball, of course some of his passes aren't going to be completed, but the majority were, with many being high risk or lower percentage passes. If we get 3 or 4 goals out of him this year I'll be happy, but if you're expecting more than that you have little or no undersatnding of his role on the field. What do you think his role out there is?

If you want DP money to be spent on a striker and not on a DMF ok I get it. TFC is paying him fair market value for a player of his pedigree. He had many offers to play in europe for similar money.

I'm a habs fan what's that got to do with it? You must be a real scholar to make a comment like that.

Nope, wasn't at the game. I like making comments about games I don't watch for fun. Pretty sure JDG is a striker isn't he? I don't get why he isn't scoring goals. I expected him to lead the golden boot by now. I don't understand where he was on the Chicago goal either. The ball clearly beat Frei, but JDG should've been standing behind Frei. I blame that goal on him. Dero is scoring more goals then JDG, so Dero surely is worth alot more. Barrett actually has more goals then JDG this year, therefore Barrett should be making more money.

Smart ass posts get smart ass replies.

[prizby]

for one of the first time's ever, I found your ratings LS a little off today, i really think JDG's number should be closer to a 7 if not a 7.5. Maybe being at the game had a difference, but the number of times i saw him twist away from his man, catch his man going the wrong way, pure class...I also think he technically gets credit for an assist on Lebrocca's goal (lol)

Barrett only a 7.5 and DeRo a 7, and White a 7, White deserves 2 assists really, the extra one on his own goal, DeRo and his 2 assists the amount of actual good passes he made and other made in those conditions...finally barrett, not only did he score two goals, but he scored them both I believe with his "weak foot"

[habstfc]

How are any of my comments considered smart ass. It's obvious you have a problem with JDG no matter how he plays. Yesterday he played well, I don't know how you could say any different, not just you but anyone. Did he make a few errant passes and make some errors, sure he did, but so did everyone if you want to get picky. You say things like if he made less money you wouldn't be so hard on him. What does his salary have to do with anything, either he did his job out there yesterday or he didn't. I say he did.

[Pachuco]

How are any of my comments considered smart ass. It's obvious you have a problem with JDG no matter how he plays. Yesterday he played well, I don't know how you could say any different, not just you but anyone. Did he make a few errant passes and make some errors, sure he did, but so did everyone if you want to get picky. You say things like if he made less money you wouldn't be so hard on him. What does his salary have to do with anything, either he did his job out there yesterday or he didn't. I say he did.

So, I love proving smart assess wrong. You may want to try a different angle next time. Here's my comments from the Seattle game. Look up the quote in the post game if you don't believe me and don't trust I didn't edit the post. Oh, for the 100th time, it's not only me saying he isn't playing up to par, therefore, did you ever think that maybe your love for JDG is swaying your opinion of how he's performing on the field?

Your posts are so ludicrous you at one point say JDG has been our best player for the last 5 games (and Dero). What? You mean the same game he lost for us by jumping out of the wall?




* Dero you are king!
* Deguzman, you should keep jumping out of the way of free kicks. You took a beating this week from the supporters and the media. And holy SHIT did you ever respond. Best game BY FAR as a Red. It was the Deguzman show for quite some time there.

[habstfc]

Man, you just don't get it. Even someone like you has to give JDG his dues for the seattle game. You would have little credibility on these threads if you didn't at least acknowledge the seattle game. I'm not picking you specifically, you're not the only one with an irrational hate-on for JDG. I'm going to give you some advice. You need to pick your spots if you want to criticize not only JDG, but any tfc player, it's best not to do it after a 4-1 win, where every player played a good solid game. I'm not the only one saying he had a good game yesterday, just look at this entire thread. I am just the only one calling you out on your ridiculous comments. He is mediocre game in and game out. Come on, get a grip. Even in the colorado game where he jumped out of the wall, if you watched that game he had total control of the midfield for a great deal of the game before his blunder. I am standing by my comments about him being our best player the last 5 games along with dero. I'm not saying he was one of our best 2 every game but on average certainly, yes.

[Dunc]

I think he's been fucking great. He's had plenty of giveaways and a few poor passes but I'd be interested to see a statistical analysis (but of course too lazy to do it myself) to compare it to players we've had in a similar role. Trying to look at it objectively, I'm confident he has been a lot better than anything we've ever known. I'm thinking of watching Edu every time he tried to carry the ball a few yards and losing it, or making a shit pass, or squandering the ball on a long shot to row Z whenever he could. I'm also thinking of Robinson who was a great midfield destroyer, but a hopelessly safe player who was limited in any attacking capacity. Cronin is a good player but he doesn't provide anywhere near the vision or skill at drawing opposition attention that de Guzman does. Less is expected of him.

If he's not worth what he's making that's simply because of the condition of the league. A holding mid was always going to be a questionable choice as a DP. He's the sort of player that I feel could slot in to lower-end premiership midfields and not be out of place, but also the sort of player that isn't going to be an overt world-beater in a lower league like MLS. I am actually of the opinion he was a poor choice of DP solely because of his role, but I am not going to deny that he has been living up to it as well as he can.

I wasn't sold on JDG but I'm sure you could quantitatively see a lot of the great job he does most of the time. He opens up a tremendous amount of space because of the fear he commands in the opposition and they scramble to prevent him from being too effective. We haven't done the best job of using it but it's definitely there. Every time he gets the ball in midfield he gets hit with a swarm who rush to close him down.

[Oldtimer]

The only weakness I see in JDG's play (apart from the one instance in jumping out of the wall) is that he is still adjusting to the style of play of the team and the league (read "the lower-quality players who don't anticipate passes into space"). He is by far one of the best DMs in MLS and an upgrade over Robbo with just a slightly bigger cap hit. It's only the cap hit that counts, and I don't care how many millions MLSE pays out of their own coffers above the cap. Also with up to 3 DPs being allowed, he won't affect TFC's future chances of landing a DP-striker, should the cap be properly managed from here on in.

From De Vos' article:


De Guzman is not a goal scoring midfielder, but he is superb at keeping possession under pressure. Time and time again he demonstrated his ability to wriggle out of sticky situations with the ball at his feet. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/jasondevos/2010/05/the-many-sides-of-toronto-fc.html

[habstfc]

Enough said.

[maninb]

"I’m a little confused/annoyed by Saric seeing the pitch over Cronin, I do wonder what the story is there. I’m not implying anything sinister so don’t start rumours but I think Cronin has more to offer."

Yeah me too....Preki obviously has some kinda HATE-ON for Cronin...I doubt it's effort, since Cronin was one of the hardest workers last year, and he's got FAR MORE talent than Sanyang or Saric...who knows...

[Beach_Red]

The only weakness I see in JDG's play (apart from the one instance in jumping out of the wall) is that he is still adjusting to the style of play of the team and the league (read "the lower-quality players who don't anticipate passes into space"). He is by far one of the best DMs in MLS and an upgrade over Robbo with just a slightly bigger cap hit. It's only the cap hit that counts, and I don't care how many millions MLSE pays out of their own coffers above the cap. Also with up to 3 DPs being allowed, he won't affect TFC's future chances of landing a DP-striker, should the cap be properly managed from here on in.

From De Vos' article:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/jasondevos/2010/05/the-many-sides-of-toronto-fc.html


Yes, that's it.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

The only weakness I see in JDG's play (apart from the one instance in jumping out of the wall) is that he is still adjusting to the style of play of the team and the league (read "the lower-quality players who don't anticipate passes into space"). He is by far one of the best DMs in MLS and an upgrade over Robbo with just a slightly bigger cap hit. It's only the cap hit that counts, and I don't care how many millions MLSE pays out of their own coffers above the cap. Also with up to 3 DPs being allowed, he won't affect TFC's future chances of landing a DP-striker, should the cap be properly managed from here on in.

From De Vos' article:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/jasondevos/2010/05/the-many-sides-of-toronto-fc.html


Absolutely!

Thank You for the great post.

Dear Pachuco, please read. Your unwarranted bashing of JDG is a blow to your Football IQ.

I can totally understand if JDG knocked out or beat one of your countries in games past or maybe JDG played for Deportivo and that was your hated team...Maybe you really really didn't want a DM for DP....what ever the case may be....understand that he is still adjusting, he is the number one or two DM in the MLS, and most importantly HE LOVES THIS CITY AND THIS TEAM!

[jabbronies]

Usanov (5): Though TFC enjoyed a very good game, I thought Usanov had a difficult afternoon. Though early in the game he drew a foul in a dangerous area, little good came afterwards. Most importantly, he steamrolled I believe was McBride in the box while trying to get to Nyarko who was threatening the goal. I was astonished the referee didn’t whistle for a penalty which in all likelihood would have resulted in the game being level 2-2 and a very different ending from 4-1




This guy Scares me when he's on the field





Cann (6.5): Wasn’t really seen in the match, always a good thing for a CB. It wasn’t until CBC showed a replay pack of Cann’s work throughout the day that I realized how instrumental he was. Did pick up an unnecessary booking though.


I'm more inclined to bump him up to a 7. the reason being is that our back line does seem more together since he's been here. Not sure if that's more Preki than him, but it's a huge difference than when Garcia is on. Also, he's kinda wall like back there, is really tough on players off the ball. Yes he made a mistake or two, but nothing game threatening and nothing that any other CB would have done IMO.





DeGuzman (6.5): It occurred to me that I might be looking at JDG the wrong way in rating him. I still am waiting for him to play better but he was effective today in that he was attracting 2-3 guys whenever he had the ball thereby creating space for others. This is good and useful but caused by his name more than his play and he’s going to have to step up.


This is a tough one for me. He is attracting more player to himself and he is getting the ball out of those situations more often than not. better than we've ever had in this position, but i wonder if his DP status is clouding our view of him. If he were Carl Robinson, we'd be giving him the POTY award. But cause he's a DP, we're expecting more.

I'm not saying he is a POTY candidate, but he is effective in what he does. 6.5 is right, but i wonder if he were someone else, what we would give him?

[Stencils]

This is very well put. To me it's all about perspective. If JDG took a pay cut next year and was making somewhere around 300K-350K then I may not be so hard on him. The fact of the matter is right now he's tying up a very important DP spot and he ain't giving us much more then we could get for that kind of money. I get why Mo had to overpay him in order to get him here in Toronto, but I won't understand if after 2 years he actually signs as a DP again unless he significantly improves his game. I believe his stock has dropped significantly since he played his last game in La liga and he may not have a choice but to take a pay cut.

This is unfortunately pretty much what the case may be. I'm not sure dropping him THAT far in pay is necessary, but I don't believe he's justified his price tag at this point. The season is long, though.

And Carts pretty much was bang on in what I would have said in terms of JDG's performance to date. He's had some good games, great ones even, but he's also had some fairly mediocre or even bad ones. If the point of bringing in a DP player is to ensure that you have at least one player on the pitch that is playing regularly well above average for his position, then JDG as of yet has not supplied that. He's out there doing his job, but in terms of changing the game De Ro has earned more of JDG's paycheck than JDG has. EDIT: And no, I'm not just refering to goals. I know that JDG is not there to score goals.

JDG and the locker room in general is gonna have to be careful because I doubt DeRo is the kind of person to not remind him of that.

Let's hope they all keep their wallets in their jackets and just play football.

[rocker]

Well, while I understand pay influences perception, his salary is not really "tying up" a DP spot (in other words, it's not like his slot could go to someone better but can't since we have him). We have 2 other possible DP slots available. Until we use up both of those, and he's not seen as giving value for the 1st slot, then he's not tying up a slot.

Second, his cap hit is about $335 now, I believe, under the new CBA. So if he was NOT a DP and was paid 300K-350K, he'd be taking up about the same amount of cap room as he is taking up now.

The rest of his paycheque is not really our concern, since MLSE pays for it.

So people probably shouldn't use his TOTAL salary as a gauge or his use of the 1 of 3 DP slots. Instead, judge him at $335K, as right now that's all that really matters in the grand scheme of things (the rest of his salary is irrelevent + there are still more DP slots). What does 335K get you around the league? And does that 335K on the cap prevent signing another DP (do we have the next 335K?)?

[Wooster_TFC]

Lucky, I would point out with respect to Usanov that the time he ran over McBride McBride was actually setting a pick on him. I think he actually got called for a foul on it too (McBride). Might have been harder to see at the game, but on the TV they showed a couple of replays and it was quite clear that McBride knew Usanov was coming and stepped in front of him like a second before getting hit. I would have been livid if a penalty had been called.

[dannyd]

The ref and assistants were very inconsistent yesterday. And they often missed obvious calls on plays that occurred right in front of their eyes. Thankfully none affected the overall score since TFC made sure of that!

I didn't see any problems with the assistants.

As for Terry Vaughn, I can't figure him out. Technically, he's an excellent referee, his positioning, man management etc is spot on. However, his foul-recognition is terrible. It's almost like having a basketball referee do a soccer game. To me he's like the officiating equivalent of Marvel Wynne - has some great attributes, but doesn't understand the game at all.

Oh well, what do you do - these are the best officials in North America, so until better referees come along, we're stuck with these guys.