Roof!?

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

I know we'll never get one....but something like this could make BMO more attractive.....and it could be a cheaper alternative then your traditional roof!

We all know how MLSE like to save!

http://i40.tinypic.com/14lsvnr.jpg

[Whoop]

What stadium is that?

[Brooker]

sweet! would we get that track, too? make Johnston run laps.

[Pachuco]

A big part of having a roof in a football stadium is to reflect the signing and chanting into the stadium. I'm not sure that roof would accomplish that? I'm no expert though.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

What stadium is that?


Estadio Metropolitano de Mérida Location Venezuela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela)

Here is the finsihed product!


A simple roof like this at BMO FIELD? Its basically a tent style roof!

http://i40.tinypic.com/14vgqe1.jpg

[canadian_bhoy]

Pretty ugly.

I think we should go for the tin can roof to complement our tin can stadium.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/dijon_gerard.jpg

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

A big part of having a roof in a football stadium is to reflect the signing and chanting into the stadium. I'm not sure that roof would accomplish that? I'm no expert though.

Ive been to stadiums with such roofs....very effective!

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Pretty ugly.

I think we should go for the tin can roof to complement our tin can stadium.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/dijon_gerard.jpg


Cost efficient..its MLSE we are dealing with:drinking:

[TFC07]

They're NOT going to put a roof until they finish expanding seating capacity (30,000-35,000 seats).

[Super]

They're NOT going to put a roof until they finish expanding seating capacity (30,000-35,000 seats).

So in 2020?

I love these long-term plans.

In 5 years we'll have a team capable of making the play-offs.

In 10 years we'll have a roof.

Ambitious club, that's for sure.

:picard:

[TFC07]

So in 2020?

I love these long-term plans.

In 5 years we'll have a team capable of making the play-offs.

In 10 years we'll have a roof.

Ambitious club, that's for sure.

:picard:


You got to be stupid to think they'll put a roof without expanding the stadium first. You think 22,000 seats is enough???? BTW, City owns the stadium, not MLSE. So it will take a long time to get a roof either way.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

You got to be stupid to think they'll put a roof without expanding the stadium first. You think 22,000 seats is enough???? BTW, City owns the stadium, not MLSE. So it will take a long time to get a roof either way.

22 000 is more then enough....have you been to a game lately??

You honestly believe they can add 10 to 15 thousand more seats..and fill them?

[TFC07]

22 000 is more then enough....have you been to a game lately??

You honestly believe they can add 10 to 15 thousand more seats..and fill them?

Maybe for TFC, but what about hosting major international games at BMO field? I am sure city wouldn't mind that espeically if MLSE is paying for it.

[Super]

You got to be stupid to think they'll put a roof without expanding the stadium first. You think 22,000 seats is enough???? BTW, City owns the stadium, not MLSE. So it will take a long time to get a roof either way.

You work for MLSE? I know the arguments, but that doesn't mean I'll except them. They can very easily expand the east-end when/if they choose to do so - although as it is they're having trouble filling every seat, so I don't think expansion is in the immediate future.

As long as supporters tolerate a lack of roof the south-end will never get one. I've long wanted supporters to organize and DEMAND MLSE put on a roof. They can do it VERY easily, and quite frankly owe it to us for making this club what it is in the city. If in 10 years they choose to expand the south end they can remove the roof, add an extra level, and then expand on the roof.

[Super]

Maybe for TFC, but what about hosting major international games at BMO field? I am sure city wouldn't mind that espeically if MLSE is paying for it.

So you're saying they should add 10-20,000 seats to bring in the likes of Real Madrid (umm, already had them here) - and then have a half-empty stadium for TFC games?

Yeah, I like that idea.

Let's be supporters and encourage, nay, DEMAND, changes that will at the very least make the stadium feel more like a proper football stadium - and less like an American high school pointy-ball stadium. Fuck sakes, non-League English teams have roofs, and our billion-dollar ownership can't put one over 3,000 seats in the south-end? Come on, please ...

[TFC07]

You work for MLSE? I know the arguments, but that doesn't mean I'll except them. They can very easily expand the east-end when/if they choose to do so - although as it is they're having trouble filling every seat, so I don't think expansion is in the immediate future.

As long as supporters tolerate a lack of roof the south-end will never get one. I've long wanted supporters to organize and DEMAND MLSE put on a roof. They can do it VERY easily, and quite frankly owe it to us for making this club what it is in the city. If in 10 years they choose to expand the south end they can remove the roof, add an extra level, and then expand on the roof.

That will cost a lot of money. MLSE wouldn't be smart to do that.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Maybe for TFC, but what about hosting major international games at BMO field? I am sure city wouldn't mind that espeically if MLSE is paying for it.

25 000 tops..

as red bull arena is..and they will be attracting some big clubs this season!



30 000 + is way too much....and id hate to be playing in a half empty stadium during TFC games!

[TFC07]

So you're saying they should add 10-20,000 seats to bring in the likes of Real Madrid (umm, already had them here) - and then have a half-empty stadium for TFC games?

Yeah, I like that idea.

Let's be supporters and encourage, nay, DEMAND, changes that will at the very least make the stadium feel more like a proper football stadium - and less like an American high school pointy-ball stadium. Fuck sakes, non-League English teams have roofs, and our billion-dollar ownership can't put one over 3,000 seats in the south-end? Come on, please ...

I was hinting more on non-TFC related games they can host at BMO field (2 major international clubs playing against each other). Also (hopefully) Canadian national team playing against top tier teams at BMO field.

[TFC07]

25 000 tops..

as red bull arena is..and they will be attracting some big clubs this season!



30 000 + is way too much....and id hate to be playing in a half empty stadium during TFC games!

25,000 is too small for a soccer market like Toronto.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

25,000 is too small for a soccer market like Toronto.

now i know your smokin.....

[Super]

That will cost a lot of money. MLSE wouldn't be smart to do that.

What do you care? You're not going to take a share in their profits as it is anyway, so why advice against putting a roof on the south-end.

DEMAND one. Unless you don't want a roof?

[rocker]

appropriate size depends on ticket prices too... and quality level of the league...
lots of factors.

[Super]

25,000 is too small for a soccer market like Toronto.

If that's the case, then please explain the THOUSANDS of empty seats in our first 3 home games this season. Trust me, the honeymoon is over, and now we'll have to win something to fill the seats again.

There's a HUGE market for Premier League or Serie A football, sure, but not for the MLS. Fuck, we can't even crack 200k in TV-rating.

[TFC07]

now i know your smokin.....

Well don't TFC currently have 17,000 people on their waiting list for season tickets? Isn't soccer one of the most popular sports in GTA?

Don't you think we had major teams like Real Madrid playing in Toronto, they wouldn't sell out?

[TFC07]

What do you care? You're not going to take a share in their profits as it is anyway, so why advice against putting a roof on the south-end.

DEMAND one. Unless you don't want a roof?

You're right. I do want a roof too, but let's be real here: why would MLSE put a roof then rip it off to add seats and put a roof again? Remember, end of the day MLSE is all about money!

[Super]

Well don't TFC currently have 17,000 people on their waiting list for season tickets? Isn't soccer one of the most popular sports in GTA?

Don't you think we had major teams like Real Madrid playing in Toronto, they wouldn't sell out?

And how many of those 17,000 are just us wanting extra tickets? I'm on the waiting list for more, but now I wouldn't buy extra anyway. I know tons of guys with seasons like myself who are on the list. Also, people who bought Real Madrid tickets had to sign up as well.

And how many people signed up ages ago and have since then forgotten about TFC? Trust me, if the demand was as big as it seems they would've sold out all season tickets in a flash - and they didn't. It took a while this time around. And every game they have tons of singles that aren't sold.

[TFC07]

If that's the case, then please explain the THOUSANDS of empty seats in our first 3 home games this season. Trust me, the honeymoon is over, and now we'll have to win something to fill the seats again.

There's a HUGE market for Premier League or Serie A football, sure, but not for the MLS. Fuck, we can't even crack 200k in TV-rating.

Blame TFC for not putting a winning and enjoyable team to watch (that blame goes to Mo and rest of soccer people running TFC).

I think fans should focus more on that than a roof IMO.

[Yeoman]

there's reasons why those 17,000 number hasn't changed in two years
quite simply;
no one wants to pay $1k for shitty seats
i only did because i knew biting the bullet for a few years will be more benefical in the long run for me
you go tell people in england how much season tickets cost for them and report back when you find their conclusions on prices that we pay

[Super]

You're right. I do want a roof too, but let's be real here: why would MLSE put a roof then rip it off to add seats and put a roof again? Remember, end of the day MLSE is all about money!

Because we say so! They're not going to do ANYTHING unless we mobilize and make them get us one. And besides, you're thinking that they'll add to the south-end. I don't think they'll expand the south-end. And if they do, it won't be for many, many years (20-30 years).

MLSE and TFC have NEVER done anything for supporters - period. Nothing, unless it made them money - OR it was free for them. They owe us a roof. We made this club a success. Let's demand one!

[TFC07]

Because we say so! They're not going to do ANYTHING unless we mobilize and make them get us one. And besides, you're thinking that they'll add to the south-end. I don't think they'll expand the south-end. And if they do, it won't be for many, many years (20-30 years).

MLSE and TFC have NEVER done anything for supporters - period. Nothing, unless it made them money - OR it was free for them. They owe us a roof. We made this club a success. Let's demand one!

I am sure there will since a lot people want to be in south end because supporters and price of the seats.

[Super]

I am sure there will since a lot people want to be in south end because supporters and price of the seats.

Maybe, maybe not. So in other words: we should just give up on a roof?

[ginkster88]

I'm on the list and didn't buy this year when I had the option. Dark Grey? No thanks. Plus next year I'm higher on the list and more seats will be available, a trend that I think will continue until ticket prices are frozen and the team starts winning. By the time I'm ready to buy, Light Grey and Red may cost as much as Dark Grey does now, so I won't be buying again. There are many, many people like me out there.

[TFC07]

Maybe, maybe not. So in other words: we should just give up on a roof?

I think we should focus what is going on field right now than anything else. Roof will eventually come, but right now, I want MLSE to spend on things that will help this team more (like scouting for an example) and get new people running this team. Once we have a winning team, people will come out then the demand will be there for more seats which eventually lead to a roof.

[Super]

I think we should focus what is going on field right now than anything else. Roof will eventually come, but right now, I want MLSE to spend on things that will help this team more (like scouting for an example) and get new people running this team. Once we have a winning team, people will come out then the demand will be there for more seats which eventually led to a roof.

This is a thread about the roof - I'm all for demanding a winning team too, that's why we support them. Getting rid of Mo is easy: get every single person at BMO to chant for 90 minutes that "Mo must go". Done deal!

Meanwhile, I'm sure we'll able to multi-task and ask for a roof as well. It would actually help the team A LOT. A roof would improve the atmosphere and make BMO a much more hostile place in which to play. It would improve YOUR ability as a supporter to influence the game. Unless you're not in the south-end, in which case I guess you wouldn't benefit.

I know there are many people who agree with you on this, or for other reasons (such as: they like the view, and want to feel the sun on them). So fine, we won't get a roof. BMO remains a US pointy-ball stadium.

The only way we'll get a roof on the south-end is if we DEMAND it.

[TFC07]

This is a thread about the roof - I'm all for demanding a winning team too, that's why we support them. Getting rid of Mo is easy: get every single person at BMO to chant for 90 minutes that "Mo must go". Done deal!

Meanwhile, I'm sure we'll able to multi-task and ask for a roof as well. It would actually help the team A LOT. A roof would improve the atmosphere and make BMO a much more hostile place in which to play. It would improve YOUR ability as a supporter to influence the game. Unless you're not in the south-end, in which case I guess you wouldn't benefit.

I know there are many people who agree with you on this, or for other reasons (such as: they like the view, and want to feel the sun on them). So fine, we won't get a roof. BMO remains a US pointy-ball stadium.

The only way we'll get a roof on the south-end is if we DEMAND it.

Fair enough.

[Super]

Actually I'd love for the RPB chiefs to maybe address this with mlsintoronto - just to see what they have to say about the roof. Maybe it's been talked about already, and I missed it. Surely it would be at the top of the list for any group that is focused on creating atmosphere - and building a roof would boost the atmosphere 5-fold, if not more, immediately.

And just for the record, before I came to Canada I supported a club where the supporters section was under a roof, and we were no where near the numbers in 111-114, but sure as hell sounded like 10 times more people - easily. Chanting under no roof is depressing - because I know personally how good it would be with one. This is why I'm so passionate about getting one.

[canadian_bhoy]

Actually I'd love for the RPB chiefs to maybe address this with mlsintoronto - just to see what they have to say about the roof. Maybe it's been talked about already, and I missed it. Surely it would be at the top of the list for any group that is focused on creating atmosphere - and building a roof would boost the atmosphere 5-fold, if not more, immediately.

And just for the record, before I came to Canada I supported a club where the supporters section was under a roof, and we were no where near the numbers in 111-114, but sure as hell sounded like 10 times more people - easily. Chanting under no roof is depressing - because I know personally how good it would be with one. This is why I'm so passionate about getting one.

Good call. Would be very interesting to hear what they have to say about a roof. We need one. BMO would be taken to the next level like they wouldn't believe.

Please put this on BMO

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/dijon_gerard.jpg

or this

http://www.zisch.ch/openmedia_custom/files/BXMediaOne236860file.jpg

Or give us the plastic roof like NYRB...or this austrian stadium that NYRB copied!

http://njmg.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/28/woerthersee_stadium_ap.jpg

[Whoop]

Which is the 2nd stadium?

I know the first one is in Dijon, France.

Is the 3rd one Red Bull Arena Salzburg?

[Dman81]

I wanna see BMO field like this

God! Is this too much to ask for??


http://www.jokeemail.com/pictures/olympics.jpg

[Shakes McQueen]

My guess is the stadium expands at least once more before we get a roof.

- Scott

[jazzy]

I think it will be a long time before anymore changes take place at BMO field. As we can see crowds are thinning a bit, and there is a ceiling on the profits. MLSE can smell the coffee and are hearing all the discontent. The team will have to improve to the knowledgable fanbase, to be a continous sellout again, and that isn't going to happen without more investment. An interesting catch-22.

[ginkster88]

Or give us the plastic roof like NYRB...or this austrian stadium that NYRB copied!


So much NYRB hate. That stadium is for Red Bull's bigger club in Austria, Red Bull Salzberg (which I wish was NY's nomenclature: Red Bull NY sounds so much better than "the NY Red Bulls"). They built the same stadium here, just a bit smaller... Nothing like a bit of brand continuity.

[boban]

So much NYRB hate. That stadium is for Red Bull's bigger club in Austria, Red Bull Salzberg (which I wish was NY's nomenclature: Red Bull NY sounds so much better than "the NY Red Bulls"). They built the same stadium here, just a bit smaller... Nothing like a bit of brand continuity.
That stadium NY Red Bull copied is in Klagenfurt and has nothing to do with Red Bull. The soccer team Red Bull own in Austria plays out of Salzburg in a stadium not pictured in this thread.

[drewski]

22 000 is more then enough....have you been to a game lately??

You honestly believe they can add 10 to 15 thousand more seats..and fill them?


saying there's no point to ever expand the stadium because of current attendance is short sighted. the team will get better and when it does, they will easily fill an expanded stadium.

Just look at attendance averages over the years for the other TO teams to see how big a swing teams can have.

as for the season ticket list, I agree that its not a good indication of demand. I remember seeing an explanation of how, generally, the true demand from a waiting list is usually about half of the actual size. For some fo the reason above, plus, some people have moved away but stay on, just in case (like me), or who's financial situation has changed.

[menefreghista]

I don't think we'll ever get a roof. MLSE won't build one just to make us happy. There is no money in it for them. Expanding the north end seats makes sense because it increases revenues. How does a roof do that?

And the guy saying we should mobilize and demand one must be taking hallucinogen type drugs.

The only way I could see us getting a roof though is if we host another big event, say, the Women's World Cup and FIFA demands a roof. Then the people running BMO Field can go run to the government for more money with a half decent excuse.

But I just can't see TFC/MLSE building a roof just for fan comfort. Not when we have shown we don't mind filling the stadium regardless.

[boban]

I don't think we'll ever get a roof. MLSE won't build one just to make us happy. There is no money in it for them. Expanding the north end seats makes sense because it increases revenues. How does a roof do that?
Better attendance for rain days, increases concession sales on rain days to name a couple.

[Don Julio]

The absolute last part of the stadium to get a roof will be the south end. You're looking at maybe 2030. That's a lot of threads from now.

[menefreghista]

The absolute last part of the stadium to get a roof will be the south end. You're looking at maybe 2030. That's a lot of threads from now.

The way stadium are built in North America, we might be playing in some totally different stadium located somewhere else in the city by then.


Better attendance for rain days, increases concession sales on rain days to name a couple.

While I agree with the general point, until we see a larger drop in attendance of games with shit weather I don't think they will care.

[ginkster88]

While I agree with the general point, until we see a larger drop in attendance of games with shit weather I don't think they will care.

cough*Seattle

[Super]

And the guy saying we should mobilize and demand one must be taking hallucinogen type drugs.

You must be new to supporters culture? Supporters make demands every single day, all over the world, and it's only when they are truly united on a cause that they're able to get what they want - within reason of course. A roof on the south end is not like asking for a brand new stadium, or even for a GM to get fired. It's a fiscal issue that can easily be fixed by our very wealthy owners. And trust me, they know we deserve one. We've carried this club from day one when all people talked about were the atmosphere at BMO.

Also, in terms of profit, the better atmosphere brought on by a roof would most definitely bring a lot of people back into their seats. Let's be honest here: what's the #1 thing that brought people to the stadium? The atmosphere or the results?

Again, if you don't want a roof, fine, don't ask for one. But if you want one then unite with your fellow supporters and demand that we get one. FO will then respond, and very likely with a no, but then at the very least they can't pad their own backs in the media as having a great relationship with us - and as having worked with us to create the atmosphere that is so well known at BMO.

[arbogast]

The problem is there is no added value for MLSE to put on a roof. It's only a cash outflow for them. The only way I can see them do it, is if the roof itself is plastered with a corporate logo by a company who's sponsorship fee for that right covers the cost of construction.

[KdotOdot]

We're watching a CORPORATE PRODUCT. The FO could give two shits about us. Anyone who thinks different or thinks that the SGs have ANY influence over the FO is smoking crack.

There is no supporter culture in NA at all. I'd love a roof, and I'd love to be a part of an organization that would demand one but it's just not going to happen here.

Buy Jerseys, drink your beer, eat your fries buy your tickets and jump in the stands like monekeys for our amusment. That in a nutshell is the mentality of the FO.

[jaxul]

25,000 is too small for a soccer market like Toronto.

Pretty big for a League 1 stadium. 25k should suffice. Don't want to end up like the Jays.

[boban]

The problem is there is no added value for MLSE to put on a roof. It's only a cash outflow for them.

Better attendance for rain days, increases concession sales on rain days to name a couple.
You can add increase ticket sales in expanded stadium to that.

[Dirk Diggler]

We're watching a CORPORATE PRODUCT. The FO could give two shits about us. Anyone who thinks different or thinks that the SGs have ANY influence over the FO is smoking crack.

There is no supporter culture in NA at all. I'd love a roof, and I'd love to be a part of an organization that would demand one but it's just not going to happen here.

Buy Jerseys, drink your beer, eat your fries buy your tickets and jump in the stands like monekeys for our amusment. That in a nutshell is the mentality of the FO.

This is unfortunately true.

[ecospice]

22 000 is more then enough....have you been to a game lately??

You honestly believe they can add 10 to 15 thousand more seats..and fill them?

They could replace the East grandstand with one similar to the West grandstand - which would mean double the current number of private boxes $$$. The new boxes would allow elimination of the two buildings that flank the current North stand. Then the City and ML$E could re-do the North End stands to make the lower seating a bowl that rings the stadium.

That would still sell out every game, no problemo. The net number of new seats might be only 10,000 but the extra suites would sell out and in a few years pay for the new work. After that it is all profit.

I just hope they stop increasing the price of beer every year.

[__wowza]

we just got grass.

[rocker]

They could replace the East grandstand with one similar to the West grandstand -

I wonder if they even need to "replace" that stand. They can keep it -- just build a second level stand that has its own concourse up there (rather than forcing people up there to walk down to the ground level concessions -- lower deck fans would still have to walk down to the ground level). You could have private boxes built right behind the last row of the current east stand, then go up steeply maybe 15 rows of a new second deck. on either side of the stand, they could have big staircases (like the ones at either end of the west stand) plus a couple elevators for access.

But obviously the key element would be to have a proper concourse up there for the new deck, as lower deck is already swamped.

[boban]

I wonder if they even need to "replace" that stand. They can keep it -- just build a second level stand that has its own concourse up there (rather than forcing people up there to walk down to the ground level concessions -- lower deck fans would still have to walk down to the ground level). You could have private boxes built right behind the last row of the current east stand, then go up steeply maybe 15 rows of a new second deck. on either side of the stand, they could have big staircases (like the ones at either end of the west stand) plus a couple elevators for access.

But obviously the key element would be to have a proper concourse up there for the new deck, as lower deck is already swamped.
to do all that you would probably need a support structure that can bare all of that load. Currently, its the tin can. Concrete would be ideal. Therefore a whole new stand would need to be built from ground up.

[Super]

we just got grass.

Players got grass.

And since when is getting grass anything to brag about? Fucking footy pitch in my local park has grass. That's how low we've gone - thanking the FO for putting in place something that should be step one on the list of things to do when you want to put together a proper club. Step two is a roof.

[Super]

We're watching a CORPORATE PRODUCT. The FO could give two shits about us. Anyone who thinks different or thinks that the SGs have ANY influence over the FO is smoking crack.

There is no supporter culture in NA at all. I'd love a roof, and I'd love to be a part of an organization that would demand one but it's just not going to happen here.

Buy Jerseys, drink your beer, eat your fries buy your tickets and jump in the stands like monekeys for our amusment. That in a nutshell is the mentality of the FO.

Sad but true. I think we should stop chanting, period. Until we get a roof. I'm fine with that. It'll only work if we're united, though. As a group, or groups, I don't think that's the case.

Trust me, we DO have a say if we demand it. But we have to put something on the line first.

[boban]

Players got grass.

And since when is getting grass anything to brag about? Fucking footy pitch in my local park has grass. That's how low we've gone - thanking the FO for putting in place something that should be step one on the list of things to do when you want to put together a proper club. Step two is a roof.

:flare::flare: :iagree:

[menefreghista]

Step two is a roof.

Step two is getting rid of the goof who runs our team.

I'll take that over a roof anyday.

[Super]

Step two is getting rid of the goof who runs our team.

I'll take that over a roof anyday.

Not me. Mo will be gone eventually. A proper stadium, with a proper supporters section supported by a roof is forever.

[__wowza]

Not me. Mo will be gone eventually. A proper stadium, with a proper supporters section supported by a roof is forever.

about the pitch in your local park, don't even get me started in comparing the upkeep of that to the upkeep of the one at BMO, especially when so many clubs in the MLS are still using their plastic turf.

plenty of stadiums work just fine without roofs, and they have their pros and cons so pick your battles.

[Super]

about the pitch in your local park, don't even get me started in comparing the upkeep of that to the upkeep of the one at BMO, especially when so many clubs in the MLS are still using their plastic turf.

plenty of stadiums work just fine without roofs, and they have their pros and cons so pick your battles.

There is no battle over grass. We have it. And if you think for a second that we got grass because it was us, the supporters, who wanted it, then you're giving the FO too much credit. Everyone knew we needed the grass to a) improve the shitty product b) bring in better friendlies c) bring in better players d) prevent players like DeRo from leaving. Way down the line was f) the ticket-holders wanted it.

Also, let's not lump us, the supporters, in with everyone and everything else TFC. We're the ones who put in, game after game, creating atmosphere. My point is that we deserve a roof - because, quite frankly, we've created the buzz that made this club a financial success. Everyone is always talking about the atmosphere - not the stadium, gameplay, league, or otherwise.

Look, day in, day out, game day and otherwise, we discuss ways to improve the atmosphere. We're working on songs. We're working on better coordinating ourselves between sections. All of this could be easily solved by simply having a roof - and we'd up the volume 10-fold in the process as well. I've chanted under a roof before, for years, and I know the difference. 100 people sound like a 1000 under a roof. Why wouldn't this be a HUGE priority for supporters, when creating atmosphere is what we DO at games? We don't sit on our hands. Singing, chanting, creating VOLUME is our input on days.

IuMbrQ5oxJ8

[menefreghista]

Also, let's not lump us, the supporters, in with everyone and everything else TFC. We're the ones who put in, game after game, creating atmosphere. My point is that we deserve a roof - because, quite frankly, we've created the buzz that made this club a financial success. Everyone is always talking about the atmosphere - not the stadium, gameplay, league, or otherwise.

The days of the atmosphere selling this team are over. That was so 2007. Putting in a roof won't change that.

The novelty of the atmosphere has worn off.

People want a winner now. A roof won't win us games.

[ilikemusic]

http://www.elkcountryanimalshelter.org/WoofLogoBlack_med.jpg

[Super]

The days of the atmosphere selling this team are over. That was so 2007. Putting in a roof won't change that.

The novelty of the atmosphere has worn off.

People want a winner now. A roof won't win us games.

Point taken. You don't want a roof. Significantly greater atmosphere won't help the team, won't make BMO a more hostile place to visit, or FUN place to visit for new as well as current ticket holders.

I obviously think you're dead wrong.

[menefreghista]

Point taken. You don't want a roof. Significantly greater atmosphere won't help the team, won't make BMO a more hostile place to visit, or FUN place to visit for new as well as current ticket holders.

I obviously think you're dead wrong.

I would love to have a roof at BMO Field covering all 4 sides.

I just like living in the real world.

Again, we've move passed using 'atmosphere' to sell this team. A better on field product is WAY MORE important than a roof.

And if you think an organized protest is the way to get a roof, you are truly living in a dreamland.

[KdotOdot]

The days of the atmosphere selling this team are over. That was so 2007. Putting in a roof won't change that.

The novelty of the atmosphere has worn off.

People want a winner now. A roof won't win us games.

LOL@calling atmosphere novelty.

You follow a toronto team son. There are no winners here. You're choosing the wrong battle.

[menefreghista]

LOL@calling atmosphere novelty.

You follow a toronto team son. There are no winners here. You're choosing the wrong battle.

I think its true though. One of the big reasons this team had such cool cache in the 1st season was the great atmosphere at the stadium. The team lived off that for 3 full seasons. But now you can see the fans are demanding a winning team and that is what is leading to a drop off in demand and butts in the seats.

If it was all about the atmosphere this team would still be the hot ticket it was in year 1.

[Super]

I would love to have a roof at BMO Field covering all 4 sides.

I just like living in the real world.

Again, we've move passed using 'atmosphere' to sell this team. A better on field product is WAY MORE important than a roof.

And if you think an organized protest is the way to get a roof, you are truly living in a dreamland.

Dude, you don't have to participate. Stay away, stay at home, sit on your hands at the stadium. Do whatever you feel like. Meanwhile I'll at least be doing something - which is ALWAYS better than nothing.

[menefreghista]

Dude, you don't have to participate. Stay away, stay at home, sit on your hands at the stadium. Do whatever you feel like. Meanwhile I'll at least be doing something - which is ALWAYS better than nothing.

More power to you. And good luck.

But my years as a leftist have left me cynical to the power of 'protesting'. Generally nobody gives a shit and to think you can truly affect change is possibly the most delusional thought of all.

KdotOdot (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=183) hit the nail on the head in his early post.

[KdotOdot]

Thats because protests are pointless. You got to storm the Bastille and kill some motherfuckers.

But we're going off topic.

[Super]

More power to you. And good luck.

But my years as a leftist have left me cynical to the power of 'protesting'. Generally nobody gives a shit and to think you can truly affect change is possibly the most delusional thought of all.

KdotOdot (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/member.php?u=183) hit the nail on the head in his early post.

KdotOdot usually hits the nail right on the head. But trust me, he's willing to step up when needed to put pressure on FO when/if we want something.

Protesting works - if done properly. Standing around with signs, not so much. You have to hit the club where it hurts. Expose them as NOT caring about atmosphere, and not willing to do ANYTHING to improve upon it. At least then they can't say (which they are - constantly) that they're working with supporters, and that they appreciate us. Call them out. Embarrass them.

Second, cease all chanting at home. We'll create atmosphere on the road.

The above is the ONLY way we'll get a roof. May not work. But not doing anything is GUARANTEED to not work. That's my point of view on this whole matter. But again, you need everyone involved, and for now I don't even think the RPB chiefs are looking at a roof as an important issue - so all the talk we've done about a roof is just that: talk.

[Parkdale]

here's an honest question:

how many people in the south end do you think would prefer to keep the south end in the sun, instead of having a roof put over their heads?

like percentage wise - what do you think it would be?

and I'm just asking because I bet a lot of the people in the South enjoy being uncovered.

All the pro-roof pushing would be useless if the majority of the people wern't against it.

just another angle to consider.

[Super]

It would disappoint me greatly if the feeling of the sun is more important to supporters than improving the atmosphere 10-fold with a roof - AND enabling us to immediately coordinate with many more sections in one go.

And besides, there are other sections in the stadium that will remain uncovered. South end's priority should be to be as loud and coordinated as possible. IMHO

[KdotOdot]

Hi Devils Advocate. I'm in the South End and I vote for a roof. Have you ever stood in the South end during a noon game? I have had heat stroke every time.

fuck the sun.

[Super]

Plus those hot days are the WORST for atmosphere.

[Parkdale]

It would disappoint me greatly if the feeling of the sun is more important to supporters than improving....

but we're not talking about just supporters here. We're talking about everyone in the south end.
The overwhelming majority of people the south are not singing like they are in the S/E corner



But again, you need everyone involved, and for now I don't even think the RPB chiefs are looking at a roof as an important issue - so all the talk we've done about a roof is just that: talk.
or maybe someone has told the RPB chiefs that the roof isn't going to happen (at least not in the next 5 years) for they are focusing efforts elsewhere. And I don't know this for sure, but I'd bet than any 'non-seating, non-pissing' renovations to BMO are low on the list. new seats mean new revenue. New pissers mean happier crowds. The roof would mean louder chants and songs, but that may be low on the list for the FO.

[boban]

Step two is getting rid of the goof who runs our team.

I'll take that over a roof anyday.
Two different points entirely. One is infrastructure the other is not as tangible. Anyone can be the manger and like Super said eventually they are gone. Infrastructure like grass and roof is tangible.

[Canary Canuck]

Estadio Metropolitano de Mérida Location Venezuela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela)

Here is the finsihed product!


A simple roof like this at BMO FIELD? Its basically a tent style roof!

http://i40.tinypic.com/14vgqe1.jpg

Canada plays Venezuela there on May 29th

[boban]

but we're not talking about just supporters here. We're talking about everyone in the south end.
The overwhelming majority of people the south are not singing like they are in the S/E corner
But people on those sections stand and cheer in little groups on thier own. It doesn't mean they don't want to unite in one loud voice with the S/E corner. It's just not loud enough to hear and pick up the timing of the chant to join in.



or maybe someone has told the RPB chiefs that the roof isn't going to happen (at least not in the next 5 years) for they are focusing efforts elsewhere. And I don't know this for sure, but I'd bet than any 'non-seating, non-pissing' renovations to BMO are low on the list. new seats mean new revenue. New pissers mean happier crowds. The roof would mean louder chants and songs, but that may be low on the list for the FO.Would also mean protection from the elements which could result in more revenue for the boss.

[Super]

or maybe someone has told the RPB chiefs that the roof isn't going to happen (at least not in the next 5 years) for they are focusing efforts elsewhere. And I don't know this for sure, but I'd bet than any 'non-seating, non-pissing' renovations to BMO are low on the list. new seats mean new revenue. New pissers mean happier crowds. The roof would mean louder chants and songs, but that may be low on the list for the FO.

Fair enough, if it's already been discussed at the highest level, then so be it. It would be nice to know the plans, though, and if it has been discussed. But I do agree that FO does not care about the atmosphere - it's been quite clear from day one that they do not want to spend a dime on it, unless it's a case of policing people in the south end.

Also, yes, there are many people in the "supporters section" who are not there to take part in creating the atmosphere - or care about making it much, much better. That's a different problem all together. Between them and the scalpers, and people who just want to take in the sun, the chance of greatly improved atmosphere is very clearly near nil. That is, unless we get a FO with balls who care enough about creating a better and more proper football atmosphere that they'll slap a roof on top of the south end. Or heck, put one on top of 111-114. That's even cheaper still!

[Parkdale]

Would also mean protection from the elements which could result in more revenue for the boss.

Most seats are sold long before the weather forecast comes out.
If someone stays at home on a rain day, they've already paid for the seat.

[Parkdale]

Or heck, put one on top of 111-114. That's even cheaper still!


just think of all the new places to hang banners!
there better be roof access or Al-Mo will be pissed. (more pissed).

[boban]

Most seats are sold long before the weather forecast comes out.
If someone stays at home on a rain day, they've already paid for the seat.
What about concession revenue. I go to rain games. And leave early a lot of those times because the person I am with wants to go. I find while there I tend to buy shit loads less than on a rainy day, plus the fact I leave early. And what about the people that don;t come? Lots of game days sales missed out on.
Never mind the walk up crowd.

[Parkdale]

yeah, that's true to an extent, but a couple of beers and some pizza slices doesn't equal 4 tickets in a row in 108. Not even close.

[boban]

yeah, that's true to an extent, but a couple of beers and some pizza slices doesn't equal 4 tickets in a row in 108. Not even close.
Oh I never said it does. but there is some rev. generation from a roof. Maybe not to cover the whole cost, but its not a black whole type of spending either.

[james]

i think even if they just closed the stadium in more it would make the atmosphere twice as loud. When that wind just blows through the South End between 112 and 111 it just takes the noise out with it. WInd can just rip through that stadium sometimes and out at any open ends. CLose those end with seats and had the stadium been built on a more steep inclide i think it really would have helped keep the noise in even with out a roof. Some of the loudest stadiums in the world dont even have roofs, but they are usually at least closed in more hten BMO field, its just so open.

[boban]

i think even if they just closed the stadium in more it would make the atmosphere twice as loud. When that wind just blows through the South End between 112 and 111 it just takes the noise out with it. WInd can just rip through that stadium sometimes and out at any open ends. CLose those end with seats and had the stadium been built on a more steep inclide i think it really would have helped keep the noise in even with out a roof. Some of the loudest stadiums in the world dont even have roofs, but they are usually at least closed in more hten BMO field, its just so open.
That's a fair point also. There was no design put into it.

[Super]

i think even if they just closed the stadium in more it would make the atmosphere twice as loud. When that wind just blows through the South End between 112 and 111 it just takes the noise out with it. WInd can just rip through that stadium sometimes and out at any open ends. CLose those end with seats and had the stadium been built on a more steep inclide i think it really would have helped keep the noise in even with out a roof. Some of the loudest stadiums in the world dont even have roofs, but they are usually at least closed in more hten BMO field, its just so open.

Some of the loudest stadiums in the world will have 50% of the crowd participating in the chants. Greece and Turkey comes to mind. OR they will have 100k people there. We have maybe 4-500 people participating actively in chants TOPS. We sound like 50 under a roof.

[Super]

Let's discuss the weather factor. A rainy or very cold day will EASILY keep thousands of people away. Probably 2-3k unsold tickets, that would have otherwise been sold had there been a roof, plus another 5k+ STH's staying home. How much cash is that in lost tickets + food/beer, etc.? Now factor that in over a full season. Or seasons.

If they are going to build a roof eventually anyway, why not just do it now? We're talking big bucks in lost revenue per season due to the weather factor. Now, of course, you'd have to put a roof on the entire stadium. Sure, that will make expansion a whole lot more difficult, but many people would argue that the current size is perfect for this city. I personally agree. 25k or 30k is just way too big for an MLS team in Toronto. We're not, umm, Seattle ;)

They do it in England because it rains a lot and is cold. Well, to be honest, it has felt a lot colder at BMO the last two seasons. Especially early and late season.

Also, it hurts the rep of the club when the stadium is empty-looking on game day - like it's been lately.

[drewski]

i think even if they just closed the stadium in more it would make the atmosphere twice as loud. When that wind just blows through the South End between 112 and 111 it just takes the noise out with it. WInd can just rip through that stadium sometimes and out at any open ends. CLose those end with seats and had the stadium been built on a more steep inclide i think it really would have helped keep the noise in even with out a roof. Some of the loudest stadiums in the world dont even have roofs, but they are usually at least closed in more hten BMO field, its just so open.


That's a fair point also. There was no design put into it.


IIRC, PB has said it wasn't closed in due to fire/building code regulations. Closing it in would change the classification under the codes and make the regulations a lot more strict which would mean a lot of extra work, over and above just closing in the corners

[Ajaxjambo]

There are many examples in smaller euro clubs where the supporters groups will have gone and built the roofs themselves. I'm not sure if this is a romantic option, but given the groundswell of support for this, at least it is a gesture to mlse to reiterate that this is what the south end wants. bake sales, car washes, drink a thons - what ever it takes. give the supporters a say in what they want, or tell us what their plans are.

[Parkdale]

25k or 30k is just way too big for an MLS team in Toronto. We're not, umm, Seattle ;)

it's also an NFL stadium.... but I like what you did there.

[boban]

IIRC, PB has said it wasn't closed in due to fire/building code regulations. Closing it in would change the classification under the codes and make the regulations a lot more strict which would mean a lot of extra work, over and above just closing in the corners
Exactly, no thought put into it.

[Blizzard]

And how many of those 17,000 are just us wanting extra tickets? I'm on the waiting list for more, but now I wouldn't buy extra anyway. I know tons of guys with seasons like myself who are on the list. Also, people who bought Real Madrid tickets had to sign up as well.

And how many people signed up ages ago and have since then forgotten about TFC? Trust me, if the demand was as big as it seems they would've sold out all season tickets in a flash - and they didn't. It took a while this time around. And every game they have tons of singles that aren't sold.

Additionally, most of those 17k (or whatever the number is) are looking for cheaper/affordable tickets, in other words - the south end! Perhaps some would pay the $40 in the north end or whatever it costs to be in the corners but these folks aren't going for the expensive sections.

TFC, despite some protestations, have done this right. They did put in 1400 or so more seats and I see that almost as an experiment. At this point in time, those seats have not all been sold for any match (based on the visual evidence anyway).

As has been said, once the club is moving up in the standings and perhaps becoming a true contender, that is when MLSE can seriously look at the possibility of a larger expansion.

They'd be fools to do it now.

[superstar1976]

Comes down to price. Fill in the corners charging max $10/ticket (worst vantage point in the house are the corners), and you'll create the fishbowl needed for a fantastic atmosphere. Designate the North and South stands as supporters stands at current price levels. Put a roof on the stadium, and I think you'll have a winner for a long long time..

[David_Oliveira]

I understand we can't fill in the corners because of the codes but why not do something like this? If you look at the corner in the center of the picture, you can see that it is half filled and there is an open space below it.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/LTU_arena_panorama.jpg

[menefreghista]

Well, you could fill in the corners. It just means you might have to build more washrooms, add more exits and possibly widen some of the walkways.

[Alonso]

Most seats are sold long before the weather forecast comes out.
If someone stays at home on a rain day, they've already paid for the seat.

And judging from the last few rainy games, a roof would pay off financially if it meant those people actually showing up.

The place looked half empty... that's a lot of lost revenue when you extrapolate all the bad/rainy weather we get up here.

[Alonso]

IIRC, PB has said it wasn't closed in due to fire/building code regulations. Closing it in would change the classification under the codes and make the regulations a lot more strict which would mean a lot of extra work, over and above just closing in the corners

Yeah but if South Africa can build 8 beautiful stadiums to host the World Cup, surely we can build 1 for the TFC in a region that holds 1/3 of the countries population. Let's not sell ourselves short here, are we not amongst the wealthiest people in the world!?!

[David_Oliveira]

Well, you could fill in the corners. It just means you might have to build more washrooms, add more exits and possibly widen some of the walkways.

I hope that this is not the case. It seems like it is legitimately feasible to do this conversion. The City has more than enough room to move the iron fences out. I just wished the stadium was built properly with proper concrete stands and a facade to match it. The one thing that is good about the bleacher setup is that once they are ready to take the plunge and waste money on making proper stands, they can just move the stands out and create another decent stadium in the city. Hey someone call the Argos lol.

[Super]

Yeah but if South Africa can build 8 beautiful stadiums to host the World Cup, surely we can build 1 for the TFC in a region that holds 1/3 of the countries population. Let's not sell ourselves short here, are we not amongst the wealthiest people in the world!?!

TFC has the cash and could very easily upgrade the stadium, make it look more like a proper football stadium, and put a roof on top of it as well - but they won't, and the reason is simple: they don't value great football atmosphere. The club is not run by football people, so we shouldn't be surprised about this. Heck, many supporters don't want it either. That isn't a surprise either - most of them have never chanted under a roof before, so they don't know what they're missing. It's a shame. What could've been.

[Hustle]

Here is what I know:

1. They put in the north stands and they cannot sell them out, so why add more seats?

2. The east stand looked PATHETIC on Saturday against Chicago, and YES i know the weather was horrible and YES I know that most of those empty seats are probably bought and paid for.

But I gotta ask....

How long until those empty "paid for" seats that used to be full two years ago are not paid for anymore? Sooner than later you know its going to happen.

If the team does better, and goes starts going far in the playoffs, the weather at that time of year will affect attendance more often.

With more expansion, season will be extended by a couple weeks, the weather will affect attendance more often.

How much concessions is lost? Say east stands has what, 9000 seats? Say half of them are empty. I am going to say very conservatively $20 per person. 4500 seats x $20 per person = $90,000 in lost revenue per game on east stands alone. All other costs are fixed, so they are losing out on alot of revenue on shitty weather days.

Demographically as young supporters in the cheap seats turn into lifelong season seat holders on the east and west sides, you want to bring your family to the game....the WAG's ain't coming to put asses in the seats if the weather is shit and she won't let you take the kids....all the sudden your not going to the match either more often than not. Maybe stretching on this one, but I think its valid and need's some thought.

Finally, and most importantly the atmosphere is going to be vastly improved with a roof. Its the only place in Toronto where you can have such an experience and it attracts new customers to the product. If MLSE don't understand that the atmosphere is there golden goose, they foolin themselves.

WE NEED A F***IN ROOF. Start with the East stands.

[Super]

That's the dirty little secret. We, the supporters, are coming at this from the perspective of wanting to create a better atmosphere. But when it comes to cold, hard cash, it makes perfect sense to put a roof on a stadium in Toronto - by Lake Ontario, no less. The wind is brutal, and we will continue to have cold, harsh days early and late season. Heck, even the summer games can be down-right brutal - I had the worst heat stroke in my life last season.

There is no good reason not to build a roof TODAY. Why wait? If you're going to build it anyway, it's better to do it now and pocket the cash that is generated by better attendance.

Anyone know what a roof would cost on top of east plus south-end?

[Hustle]

Best way to get traction on this topic? To get the players behind the cause.

De Ro interview at halftime on Saturday:

Reporter: Hey DeRo, how you liking playing in this weather?

DeRo: You know, I can handle it but check out our fans...nobody comes to the game on rainy days and it ain't good. Our fans deserve better than this...I mean come on this is Canada...in order for the sport to thrive here we gotta gets these guys a roof! They deserve better!! :P

[Super]

If I was Boris/Rooney I'd go to PB and say: "Alright, you've said time and time again that you value a good relationship with the supporters, and that you value what we contribute to the game - and appreciate how we have helped to make this team a financial success in the city. Now it's time to give a little back to the supporters. Build us a roof! First south-end. Then east-end. But first and foremost: south-end. Yes or no? If no - then fine, but our relationship ends here. We ask that the club ends the use of supporters in any shape or form in marketing material from this day and onwards. Also, we ask that you, PB, and Tom Anselmi, stops talking about supporters as though they are appreciated on any level. We will not work with you, the club, on ANYTHING anymore. The empty talk ends here."

That's what I would do. Call their bluff. Let's see if TFC truly and honestly appreciates supporters. If they do, and agree to build a roof, then GREAT - respect to the club, and the relationship will actually be based on a give and take, and not just TAKE from the club. If not, then they can go fuck themselves.

I actually talked to Boris about this Saturday too, and I think he's a great guy and a great person for the role as head of RPB. But I think he's being a little too nice on this issue, and maybe it's time to growl a bit at the FO to get something done.

I understand that this is not just an RPB issue, but a supporters issue. But RPB is the biggest group, and as such should lead the way. Lead the way towards better overall attendance, and CERTAINLY much, much, MUCH better atmosphere.

[menefreghista]

How much concessions is lost? Say east stands has what, 9000 seats? Say half of them are empty. I am going to say very conservatively $20 per person. 4500 seats x $20 per person = $90,000 in lost revenue per game on east stands alone. All other costs are fixed, so they are losing out on alot of revenue on shitty weather days.


There was a study back in 2007 stating that the average spent on concessions is $13 per person. But who knows if this number has declined with the increase in ticket and concession prices.

[Hustle]

^ thanks for posting that. I thought someone might have that info.

[Super]

There was a study back in 2007 stating that the average spent on concessions is $13 per person. But who knows if this number has declined with the increase in ticket and concession prices.

Either way, that's a lot of money if you look at it over a period of years. Add to that the lost revenue in ticket-sales. A roof pays for itself - nevermind the improved atmosphere part of this.

[menefreghista]

One thing MLSE loves is money. If they crunched the numbers and found a roof could increase ticket sales and concession revenue and pay itself back over a short period of years it would be built in no time.

I'm willing to bet they haven't reached that point yet.

[Super]

One thing MLSE loves is money. If they crunched the numbers and found a roof could increase ticket sales and concession revenue and pay itself back over a short period of years it would be built in no time.

I'm willing to bet they haven't reached that point yet.

They are known to be a little slow. In more ways that one. Also, remember, we're dealing with non-football people here.

[Hustle]

So with the grass...do you think they reached that point after cutting the cheque for the Madrid Friendly? I think it was the culmination of pressure from many different fronts that finally got the job done.

I pray for 15 cm of snow and empty stands on MLS cup day.

[Super]

So with the grass...do you think they reached that point after cutting the cheque for the Madrid Friendly? I think it was the culmination of pressure from many different fronts that finally got the job done.

I pray for 15 cm of snow and empty stands on MLS cup day.

It was a number of things. The turf was completely done, so they needed to replace it. That would have carried a cost. Either they installed grass now, or installed turf and then grass 3 years later. Also, players REFUSED to come here because of the lack of grass - which made Mo's job a hell of a lot harder, and certainly gave us a massive disadvantage as a club. Another thing was injuries - and players bitching about it. That's bad too.

Last, but LEAST on TFC's mind was what supporters wanted. As usual! Same thing with the roof. It's time we stand up to FO and demand a bit of respect - and not just empty words.