PDA

View Full Version : One bad apple...



Pages : [1] 2

mlsintoronto
05-04-2010, 10:32 AM
It was only a matter of time until we saw this coming. I want you to know that this is due to some people in the southwest corner who cannot keep their heads during a game. South east and north west corners generally get it. The display at the beginning of the Montreal game was great and will still be allowed.

But as a result of the numpty at the Seattle game (and previous pattern of stuff getting tossed) our staff at BMO Field will be instructed to have zero tolerance for items being thrown during the game to impact play. Mainly this is corner kicks but any other time in-game or at players as well.

Goal celebrations, kick-off displays are still cool.

here's the official word:

OBJECTS THROWN ONTO THE FIELD
From today’s game forward, there will be tightened security with regards to objects being thrown onto the pitch at BMO Field. Unfortunately, a bottle was thrown at one of the opposing players during our home match against Seattle Sounders and stadium officials will be strictly enforcing a policy that anyone seen throwing an object onto the pitch will be ejected from the stadium (streamers can still be thrown in celebration as long as they don’t impact the play). We want to keep the great atmosphere at BMO Field but also need to ensure the safety of other supporters and players during matches.

NF-FC
05-04-2010, 10:35 AM
It was only a matter of time until we saw this coming. I want you to know that this is due to some people in the southwest corner who cannot keep their heads during a game. South east and north west corners generally get it. The display at the beginning of the Montreal game was great and will still be allowed.

But as a result of the numpty at the Seattle game (and previous pattern of stuff getting tossed) our staff at BMO Field will be instructed to have zero tolerance for items being thrown during the game to impact play. Mainly this is corner kicks but any other time in-game or at players as well.

Goal celebrations, kick-off displays are still cool.

here's the official word:

OBJECTS THROWN ONTO THE FIELD
From today’s game forward, there will be tightened security with regards to objects being thrown onto the pitch at BMO Field. Unfortunately, a bottle was thrown at one of the opposing players during our home match against Seattle Sounders and stadium officials will be strictly enforcing a policy that anyone seen throwing an object onto the pitch will be ejected from the stadium (streamers can still be thrown in celebration as long as they don’t impact the play). We want to keep the great atmosphere at BMO Field but also need to ensure the safety of other supporters and players during matches.

I thought this was already the case?

Troll
05-04-2010, 10:36 AM
first?


Edit: Damn, beat me to it.



This space for rent. Prime realty on 1st page. PM me for rates.

JonO
05-04-2010, 10:37 AM
^^ There has still been a lot of leeway given on streamers tossed on corners. I guess this is coming to an end...

Carts
05-04-2010, 10:37 AM
Paul, as per the BMO code of conduct release...

With the immediate ejection, will the 'Yellow Card' be issued to someone caught throwing an object...?

Or is it now a 'straight Red' with the subsequent ramifications of season tickets removed etc...

For the record, I'm all for someone getting a 'Straight Red' for throwing a bottle at a player...

Carts...

Whoop
05-04-2010, 10:37 AM
Saw this coming.

No big deal really.

GhostKiller
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
What about throwing tantrums?

Pookie
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
That's cool with me. Hopefully, it is backed up with the red card removal of season ticket rights if the offender is a holder.

boban
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
Me thinks streamers on corners are out now.

stugautz
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
Is midget tossing still allowed?

JonO
05-04-2010, 10:39 AM
^ as long as it doesn't impact play - toss away

Edit: see heading "OBJECTS THROWN ONTO THE FIELD"

Don Julio
05-04-2010, 10:40 AM
I guess it's just the enforcement?

I'm thinking the biggest problem is you can't see who's throwing the bottles when the air is full of streamers.

mlsintoronto
05-04-2010, 10:43 AM
I thought this was already the case?

technically yes but we've been pretty loose on streamers at corner kicks. No one has been kicked out for that.

We can't any more.

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 10:45 AM
I have no problems with this. It makes sense.

A bunch of idiots I tell ya.

Thanks for the headsup PB.

Hitcho
05-04-2010, 10:46 AM
What about throwing Mo? :D

I'd be in favour of the bottle tosser being banned for life from all MLS grounds. Fecking stupid.

I don't think the change being implemented is a bad one, we can't live in 2007 forever!

drewski
05-04-2010, 10:46 AM
here's the official word:

OBJECTS THROWN ONTO THE FIELD
From today’s game forward, there will be tightened security with regards to objects being thrown onto the pitch at BMO Field. Unfortunately, a bottle was thrown at one of the opposing players during our home match against Seattle Sounders and stadium officials will be strictly enforcing a policy that anyone seen throwing an object onto the pitch will be ejected from the stadium (streamers can still be thrown in celebration as long as they don’t impact the play). We want to keep the great atmosphere at BMO Field but also need to ensure the safety of other supporters and players during matches.


so say, throwing streamers OVER the pitch (ie from south corner of west stand to west corner of south stand) during a corner kick would technically still be ok? :devil:

Whoop
05-04-2010, 10:47 AM
I can just see the complaints coming on Saturday night after someone in the south west corner throws a streamer during a corner and gets tossed.

Suds
05-04-2010, 10:48 AM
I have no problem with this. I agree any idiot who throws something at a player should be banned from the stadium.

I would never have a problem with pointing someone out if I saw them do it either.

Pookie
05-04-2010, 10:49 AM
If this is about safety for fans... do the cops know that as of today, they are not allowed to throw the streamers back to the crowds? ;)

Suds
05-04-2010, 10:50 AM
If this is about safety for fans... do the cops know that as of today, they are not allowed to throw the streamers back to the crowds? ;)


well played :D

J .
05-04-2010, 10:53 AM
I think anyone who threw stuff on the field of play before already was getting thrown out before. Now the streamers? Ok.

Just thinking, haven't more people been hurt by security than anyone hurt by streamers?

DichioTFC
05-04-2010, 10:54 AM
just to clarify, streamers cannot be thrown in the general direction of an opposing player taking a corner kick? If it doesnt land and I'm throwing from 113 towards 112, is that classified in a similar fashion?

Whoop
05-04-2010, 10:56 AM
This thread reminds me of this commercial.

o1u-XtTql1c

Suds
05-04-2010, 10:57 AM
I think anyone who threw stuff on the field of play before already was getting thrown out before. Now the streamers? Ok.

Just thinking, haven't more people been hurt by security than anyone hurt by streamers?

The problem is if you start making exceptions to a rule it creates too much confusion. This way everyone know that if anything is thrown onto the filed and it disrupts play in any way security is within their right to toss you.

I'd rather see this now an nip it in the bud before the MLS decides they are going to get involved some how.

In the long run this will be better for us. We can still have our displays. We just have to be smart about it.

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 10:59 AM
It's all so 2007 anyways. It hasn't been the same and it's beginning to look lame.

And it leads to boneheads throwing stupid bottles and making all Toronto fans look like douchebags.

McBrace
05-04-2010, 11:01 AM
It's all so 2007 anyways. It hasn't been the same and it's beginning to look lame.

And it leads to boneheads throwing stupid bottles and making all Toronto fans look like douchebags.

Agreed...

stretchthetruth
05-04-2010, 11:02 AM
can i still throw beer on the people around me?

wzhxvy
05-04-2010, 11:02 AM
What about throwing Mo? :D

I'd be in favour of the bottle tosser being banned for life from all MLS grounds. Fecking stupid.

I don't think the change being implemented is a bad one, we can't live in 2007 forever!

+1 especially to Mo

sully
05-04-2010, 11:02 AM
technically yes but we've been pretty loose on streamers at corner kicks. No one has been kicked out for that.

We can't any more.

I'd hope nobody will get ejected because they don't realise this..perhaps you should put flyers on the seats there on saturday letting people know...so there's no excuses..

Blizzard
05-04-2010, 11:04 AM
I'd hope nobody will get ejected because they don't realise this..perhaps you should put flyers on the seats there on saturday letting people know...so there's no excuses..

They'll just throw the flyers instead.

Afra
05-04-2010, 11:05 AM
Did they ever catch the dude that threw said bottle?

TFC Via Buffalo
05-04-2010, 11:05 AM
It's all so 2007 anyways. It hasn't been the same and it's beginning to look lame.

And it leads to boneheads throwing stupid bottles and making all Toronto fans look like douchebags.

This.

40 streamers. Pretty cool looking.

6 streamers with 3 that don't unroll. Weak.

ManUtd4ever
05-04-2010, 11:08 AM
It was only a matter of time. Damn Southwest corner!

Hey, wait a minute...

DichioTFC
05-04-2010, 11:10 AM
They'll just throw the flyers instead.

The unnamed Seattle player would've been just as pansy-ass about being hit by a flyer as well

tfcleeds
05-04-2010, 11:15 AM
The streamers were kinda fun while it lasted, but yes, it's time we got past that. There's nothing stopping us from hurling all kinds of verbal abuse during corners though...:D

flatpicker
05-04-2010, 11:17 AM
When can we have another free seat cushion giveaway at BMO?

Lucky Strike
05-04-2010, 11:18 AM
It's complete crap. Corner streamers are a big part of being at BMO. Now thanks to one douchebag who can't control himself, it gives security the fuel to ramp-up their Gestapo act. To whoever did this: I hope you're very proud of yourself and if you don't get caught, take that secret to your grave.

billyfly
05-04-2010, 11:23 AM
I just spoke with Kdot. The upper half of 112 refuses to not throw stuff. (lol)

koryo
05-04-2010, 11:25 AM
Did they ever catch the dude that threw said bottle?

Who knows? But it's easier to punish the rest of us who didn't throw a thing.

I know that when push comes to shove MLSE has to be seen as doing the right thing. Fair enough.

But honestly, I'll bet you that the people who are throwing shit like bottles on the field are also the same little twats who can't hold their drink.

Paul, there are plenty of people in that ground who are absolutely shit-faced come half time. Are you going to do anything to curb that or does crowd safety take a back seat to concession revenues?

gtaguy
05-04-2010, 11:28 AM
They'll just throw the flyers instead.

kinda like this

http://www.instructables.com/image/FKSB7HLFD80ONWQ/Insanely-fast-paper-plane.jpg

mlsintoronto
05-04-2010, 11:28 AM
Who knows? But it's easier to punish the rest of us who didn't throw a thing.

I know that when push comes to shove MLSE has to be seen as doing the right thing. Fair enough.

But honestly, I'll bet you that the people who are throwing shit like bottles on the field are also the same little twats who can't hold their drink.

Paul, there are plenty of people in that ground who are absolutely shit-faced come half time. Are you going to do anything to curb that or does crowd safety take a back seat to concession revenues?

BMO Field is prohibited by law from serving intoxicated patrons, and we can be charged when someone hands off a drink to a minor or intoxicated patrons. Has always been the case.

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 11:32 AM
Paul, care to comment on this thread please? Sorry but this is the only way to get your attention.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=22242&page=3

Oldtimer
05-04-2010, 11:37 AM
I'd rather see this now an nip it in the bud before the MLS decides they are going to get involved some how.


I suspect after the MLSR article, the league did give a quick call to PB. Hence the change.


I have no problem with this. I agree any idiot who throws something at a player should be banned from the stadium.



+1

ManUtd4ever
05-04-2010, 11:38 AM
Who knows? But it's easier to punish the rest of us who didn't throw a thing.

I know that when push comes to shove MLSE has to be seen as doing the right thing. Fair enough.

But honestly, I'll bet you that the people who are throwing shit like bottles on the field are also the same little twats who can't hold their drink.

Paul, there are plenty of people in that ground who are absolutely shit-faced come half time. Are you going to do anything to curb that or does crowd safety take a back seat to concession revenues?

The only way to deal with that other than ejecting the obvious troublemakers is to ban alcohol outright. I love having 2-3 brewskis during a match but I can hold my liquor as can many others in attendance. We shouldn't have to pay the price for the actions of a few douchebags...

H Bomb
05-04-2010, 11:53 AM
Stuff throwing is retarded of course but dont come here and act sad or hard done by. The bmo security is poorly trained, unprepared, and uneducated. You did nothing to fix the problem until now when you have decided to eject. This wil of course go sideways when someone is identified wrong and shit hits the fan. Send it in a press release next time, you guys made your bed, now sleep in it.

Sonny Cheeba
05-04-2010, 11:53 AM
It's complete crap. Corner streamers are a big part of being at BMO. Now thanks to one douchebag who can't control himself, it gives security the fuel to ramp-up their Gestapo act. To whoever did this: I hope you're very proud of yourself and if you don't get caught, take that secret to your grave.

it's sad that they were ever a big part of being at bmo. gotta have something to look forward to when the team is playing like garbage.

i think streamers on corners are stupid, and we're lucky to have gotten away with it for this long.

Sonny Cheeba
05-04-2010, 11:56 AM
Stuff throwing is retarded of course but dont come here and act sad or hard done by. The bmo security is poorly trained, unprepared, and uneducated. You did nothing to fix the problem until now when you have decided to eject. This wil of course go sideways when someone is identified wrong and shit hits the fan. Send it in a press release next time, you guys made your bed, now sleep in it.

that's exactly what's going to happen. simply saying that you'll be ejected and ejecting fans won't solve any problems. it comes down to the security procedures.

having a snitch text number is lazy. it makes fans police themselves, some may say that's a good thing, but at the same time it can make people snitch on everything and anything. don't fart at bmo.

koryo
05-04-2010, 11:58 AM
The only way to deal with that other than ejecting the obvious troublemakers is to ban alcohol outright. I love having 2-3 brewskis during a match but I can hold my liquor as can many others in attendance. We shouldn't have to pay the price for the actions of a few douchebags...

You are absolutely right, but if this is any indication, that's precisely what will happen.

AL-MO
05-04-2010, 11:59 AM
It's complete crap. Corner streamers are a big part of being at BMO. Now thanks to one douchebag who can't control himself, it gives security the fuel to ramp-up their Gestapo act. To whoever did this: I hope you're very proud of yourself and if you don't get caught, take that secret to your grave.

It was fun in 2007.

We have moved on though.

mlsintoronto
05-04-2010, 12:01 PM
Stuff throwing is retarded of course but dont come here and act sad or hard done by. The bmo security is poorly trained, unprepared, and uneducated. You did nothing to fix the problem until now when you have decided to eject. This wil of course go sideways when someone is identified wrong and shit hits the fan. Send it in a press release next time, you guys made your bed, now sleep in it.

somebody needs a hug

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 12:01 PM
don't fart at bmo.


:eek6:

:leaving:

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:06 PM
Remember that beer that hit PR's goalie in the head?????? We saw where it came from, but no way security could identify 100% the culprit.

Unless you have 100% proof, how do you start ejecting people? If that's the case, I'm ejecting that Cheeba guy...........weird cat he is.

Blizzard
05-04-2010, 12:08 PM
I suspect after the MLSR article, the league did give a quick call to PB. Hence the change.


I kind of doubt the league needed any help from a hack site like MLS Rumours.

It's all pretty much common knowledge to anyone who at least scratches the surface.

Sonny Cheeba
05-04-2010, 12:08 PM
NO MORE AIR HUMPING AND HIGH-TEN'S AT BMO. THANKS BOTTLE THROWERS!

*sniff*

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:09 PM
NO MORE AIR HUMPING AND HIGH-TEN'S AT BMO. THANKS BOTTLE THROWERS!

*sniff*

Pretty soon, we'll have the two finger tap. Anything more will be cause for ejection. Also a dress code.....................

Back to topic, it definitely needs to stop, but it's something that should have been strictly monitored from the get go................not 4 seasons later, and hundreds of dollars on wasted concessions.

Belfast_Boy
05-04-2010, 12:09 PM
Remember that beer that hit PR's goalie in the head?????? We saw where it came from, but no way security could identify 100% the culprit.

Unless you have 100% proof, how do you start ejecting people? If that's the case, I'm ejecting that Cheeba guy...........weird cat he is.

I heard it was Trane!

other than that beer, nobody should be throwing shit around.

DichioTFC
05-04-2010, 12:10 PM
Stuff throwing is retarded of course but dont come here and act sad or hard done by. The bmo security is poorly trained, unprepared, and uneducated. You did nothing to fix the problem until now when you have decided to eject. This wil of course go sideways when someone is identified wrong and shit hits the fan. Send it in a press release next time, you guys made your bed, now sleep in it.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd133/faceblaster/gsp_performance-1.png

Blizzard
05-04-2010, 12:10 PM
Remember that beer that hit PR's goalie in the head?????? We saw where it came from, but no way security could identify 100% the culprit.

Unless you have 100% proof, how do you start ejecting people? If that's the case, I'm ejecting that Cheeba guy...........weird cat he is.

Surveillance cameras perhaps. It may not mean an immediate ejection but if a thrower is caught on camera, it obviously can mean other things down the road.

DichioTFC
05-04-2010, 12:11 PM
I heard it was Trane!

other than that beer, nobody should be throwing shit around.

I'm in favour of trading away Trane in exchange for our streamer throwing freedom

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:12 PM
I heard it was Trane!

other than that beer, nobody should be throwing shit around.

Nothing should be thrown..................PERIOD.

It's a footy match, not a Hulk Hogan heel turn..........

Belfast_Boy
05-04-2010, 12:14 PM
I'm in favour of trading away Trane in exchange for our streamer throwing freedom

not yet, he owes me a beer from the Liverpool/Everton game. just hope he doesn't throw it at me!

BC101
05-04-2010, 12:14 PM
Even with this new rule theres still gonna be day trippers who throw stuff anyways.

DichioTFC
05-04-2010, 12:15 PM
not yet, he owes me a beer from the Liverpool/Everton game. just hope he doesn't throw it at me!

as long you're not in his 100' throwing range, you should be fine

koryo
05-04-2010, 12:17 PM
Pretty soon, we'll have the two finger tap. Anything more will be cause for ejection. Also a dress code.....................

Back to topic, it definitely needs to stop, but it's something that should have been strictly monitored from the get go................not 4 seasons later, and hundreds of dollars on wasted concessions.

The real problem I have is this: the word has been given to security to start cracking down and ejecting. We all know how poorly they do their jobs to begin with. And we all know how it will end: security will jump at this as a chance to abuse their power.

If you're going have a crackdown, then you have to ensure that a properly-trained security force is in place to execute it responsibly.

I do not see that happening.

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:17 PM
Even with this new rule theres still gonna be day trippers who throw stuff anyways.

You can't police a stadium of 20,000 people...........every game, there's going to be some form of drunk idiot, who throws something in a fit of rage.

His/her friends will think they are hardcore..............and a legit person will get blamed.

trane
05-04-2010, 12:18 PM
I have no issue with someone getting tossed for throwing a bottle at a player, but streamers while annoying are realy just a mental distraction.

However, it is the FO perogative to do this. However, step by step you are moving toward killing the one thing that TFC had going for it, the atmposphere.

Personaly I do not care that much, I care about the product on the pitch, which has been consistently piss poor. But MLSE shuold watch it as in the end it may end up cutting its nose to spite its face.

In 104 we had a fan tossed for making to much noise. Nobody complained, none of the regulars at least, but security tossed him no warning. Most wore unpleasenlty suprised by this, and most are not what I would I described as supporters.

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:19 PM
The real problem I have is this: the word has been given to security to start cracking down and ejecting. We all know how poorly they do their jobs to begin with. And we all know how it will end: security will jump at this as a chance to abuse their power.

If you're going have a crackdown, then you have to ensure that a properly-trained security force is in place to execute it responsibly.

I do not see that happening.

I totally agree..........it won't be properly run, managed, handled at all. First thought of someone throwing something, BAM...........there he goes.

DichioTFC
05-04-2010, 12:19 PM
The real problem I have is this: the word has been given to security to start cracking down and ejecting. We all know how poorly they do their jobs to begin with. And we all know how it will end: security will jump at this as a chance to abuse their power.

If you're going have a crackdown, then you have to ensure that a properly-trained security force is in place to execute it responsibly.

I do not see that happening.

@PB I dont mind the directive, but we do need better trained security officers who use appropriate judgment when necessary. There's been quite a few complaints.

Pookie
05-04-2010, 12:19 PM
CCTV

I know it is a bad word around here but if you have folks getting ejected who didn't throw something... and risk tickets being taken away... having proof as a defense might not be that bad of an idea

While we all could use a hug... particularly if Dion Phaneuf's GF is hanging around MLSE... the point about security is a valid one.

Seemingly, at the beginning of the season security acted on their own accord and created "Banner-gate." If this is true and security has a renegade element to it... I don't want to be ejected from the game and ultimately see my ticket rights removed because I happened to be standing beside a dipshit that throws something on the pitch.

I'd like some form of assurance that security has the proper oversight and control. That they are going to be able to identify the offenders accurately and there is recourse available to me if they fail.

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:20 PM
I have no issue with someone getting tossed for throwing a bottle at a player, but streamers while annoying are realy just a mental distraction.

However, it is the FO perogative to do this. However, step by step you are moving toward killing the one thing that TFC had going for it, the atmposphere.

Personaly I do not care that much, I care about the product on the pitch, which has been consistently piss poor. But MLSE shuold watch it as in the end it may end up cutting its nose to spite its face.

You don't need to throw stuff (albeit as you said, streamers are just a mental distraction) to create a good atmosphere. I just find it funny...........this is the FO's biggest concern........instead of finding ways to improve the product.

Rudi
05-04-2010, 12:21 PM
You don't need to throw stuff (albeit as you said, streamers are just a mental distraction) to create a good atmosphere. I just find it funny...........this is the FO's biggest concern........instead of finding ways to improve the product.
Yes, we should all hope that Paul Beirne is scouring the globe for players, given his vast experience in soccer.

McBrace
05-04-2010, 12:22 PM
The real problem I have is this: the word has been given to security to start cracking down and ejecting. We all know how poorly they do their jobs to begin with. And we all know how it will end: security will jump at this as a chance to abuse their power.

If you're going have a crackdown, then you have to ensure that a properly-trained security force is in place to execute it responsibly.

I do not see that happening.


I totally agree.. These Rent-A-Cops haven't the slightest clue...I have personally seen cases where because of a miss identification, people have been ejected. Once they realized that they were wrong, they still wouldn't allow these individuals back in. "sorry once your out your out" was the explaination..

This will get interesting..

Whoop
05-04-2010, 12:22 PM
Oh man... I can just see a repeat of the new security guy in 112 who went on a power trip during the Seattle match. LOL

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:23 PM
Yes, we should all hope that Paul Beirne is scouring the globe for players, given his vast experience in soccer.

wasn't hinting at him to do it...........

trane
05-04-2010, 12:23 PM
^ Well that is it, I realy do not care, but it is an overall patern to attempt to control support. It has to be pointed out that as we get more critical of the team the more they seem to have issues with what is being done. I am OK with the streamers, I am OK with a crackdown on the streamers, it is the slippery slope thing that tells me they will regret it.

Rudi
05-04-2010, 12:24 PM
wasn't hinting at him to do it...........
What were you getting at, then?

Shaughno
05-04-2010, 12:25 PM
I totally agree.. These Rent-A-Cops haven't the slightest clue...I have personally seen cases where because of a miss identification, people have been ejected. Once they realized that they were wrong, they still wouldn't allow these individuals back in. "sorry once your out your out" was the explaination..

This will get interesting..

Yep, and it has been a consistent issue since the first year. Despite many complaints, both publicly on the board and filed through the proper channels, the most action I've seen was firing one Security company and hiring another in it's place.

That's all fine and dandy but if they don't have proper instruction and training, it's all for naught.


Oh man... I can just see a repeat of the new security guy in 112 who went on a power trip during the Seattle match. LOL

Back to square one again... sad.

trane
05-04-2010, 12:25 PM
Yes, we should all hope that Paul Beirne is scouring the globe for players, given his vast experience in soccer.

Rudi, seriously is that what he is saying?

trane
05-04-2010, 12:26 PM
What were you getting at, then?

What are you the advocate of the FO? What is it that Hawk said that offends you?

Alonso
05-04-2010, 12:26 PM
Paul,

I'm being very serious when I ask this... does this mean there will be video recording of the crowd?

I ask because getting the right culprit %100 of the time should be the objective and I don't see how this can be done without video. One man's word against another's doesn't seem very fair to me, especially when there are alot of high fives, fist pumping, and general rowdiness going on.

jabbronies
05-04-2010, 12:27 PM
So I guess out battery shower is out of the question (insert sarcasm icon)

Oldtimer
05-04-2010, 12:28 PM
Now I can see what sort of topic brings the Random Chat posters back onto the main board. :D

Rudi
05-04-2010, 12:29 PM
Rudi, seriously is that what he is saying?
See my post above. I'm trying to figure this out as well

I don't get the "the FO should really be focusing on the product on the pitch" line that gets thrown out almost every time the business side of the FO does something. It's as if people don't understand that there are different people within the FO that have different duties, just like every other company in the world.

Complaining about the on-field product (and that's what I got from the post I responded to, if I'm wrong please correct me) in a thread started by PB is just skirting around the actual topic of discussion.

McBrace
05-04-2010, 12:29 PM
Paul,

I'm being very serious when I ask this... does this mean there will be video recording of the crowd?

I ask because getting the right culprit %100 of the time should be the objective and I don't see how this can be done without video. One man's word against another's doesn't seem very fair to me, especially when there are alot of high fives, fist pumping, and general rowdiness going on.

That's the funny thing. It's security's word against yours..

Guess who always wins?

trane
05-04-2010, 12:30 PM
I'm in favour of trading away Trane in exchange for our streamer throwing freedom

I am in favour for trading the FO for one that can deliver what counts, a good side.

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:30 PM
What were you getting at, then?

That if FO spent more time in finding a way to put a decent product on the pitch, instead of worrying about stuff they will never be able to 100% control.

Perhaps it was worded in a way, for you to think I was hinting at PB............but I was not.

Pookie
05-04-2010, 12:30 PM
So I guess out battery shower is out of the question (insert sarcasm icon)

AAA's are out.

These are probably ok:

http://www.danbury.org/cara/images/Battery%20UPS12-270.gif

Rudi
05-04-2010, 12:31 PM
What are you the advocate of the FO? What is it that Hawk said that offends you?
That didn't take long.

You found me out though. PB hired myself and Parkdale to infiltrate the supporters groups and advocate on his behalf.

I'm not sure where you extrapolated that I'm "offended" in any way, but please, go ahead and go with that. I appreciate the "if you don't disagree with everything the FO does, you're obviously on the payroll" angle you're playing too, it's so charming.

Whoop
05-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Those will be hard to sneak in.

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:32 PM
See my post above. I'm trying to figure this out as well

I don't get the "the FO should really be focusing on the product on the pitch" line that gets thrown out almost every time the business side of the FO does something. It's as if people don't understand that there are different people within the FO that have different duties, just like every other company in the world.

Complaining about the on-field product (and that's what I got from the post I responded to, if I'm wrong please correct me) in a thread started by PB is just skirting around the actual topic of discussion.

Yes I am complaining about it, but if you read my previous posts, I don't think I strayed too far from the original topic to begin with.

And yes, I understand different parts of the FO...............so if you feel my post was not called for, my apologies.

trane
05-04-2010, 12:32 PM
See my post above. I'm trying to figure this out as well

I don't get the "the FO should really be focusing on the product on the pitch" line that gets thrown out almost every time the business side of the FO does something. It's as if people don't understand that there are different people within the FO that have different duties, just like every other company in the world.

Complaining about the on-field product (and that's what I got from the post I responded to, if I'm wrong please correct me) in a thread started by PB is just skirting around the actual topic of discussion.


I get that but hawk, as many would feel that the FO as the whole spend too much time worryin about the business/ administarative side and ignores the imporatnat side to supporters, hence leaving someone whose incompletence has been proven at least a season ago at the helm. This is not against Paul, the FO as a whole has failed as far as I am concerned, I am sure I am not alone.

Yeoman
05-04-2010, 12:33 PM
and people complain about cameras
yet complain about beer throwers
makes me smile at that
no quams with cameras on this end paul
maybe it's because i know how to fucking behave?

trane
05-04-2010, 12:37 PM
That didn't take long.

You found me out though. PB hired myself and Parkdale to infiltrate the supporters groups and advocate on his behalf.

I'm not sure where you extrapolated that I'm "offended" in any way, but please, go ahead and go with that. I appreciate the "if you don't disagree with everything the FO does, you're obviously on the payroll" angle you're playing too, it's so charming.


I have no angle. But by your post responding to Hawk, pretty generic comment, that you were offended. By the way both me and Hawk do not have a problem with what the FO is stating in principal. The timing of what seems to be a crack down is suspect. Particularly in light of the not allowing the flags in incidents.

Anyway I am all for open discussion.

Parkdale has nothing to do with this, althought I blame him for everything.

drewski
05-04-2010, 12:40 PM
That if FO spent more time in finding a way to put a decent product on the pitch, instead of worrying about stuff they will never be able to 100% control.

Perhaps it was worded in a way, for you to think I was hinting at PB............but I was not.

I can see where rudi was coming from, cause they are two different heads of the same monster. The people concerning themselves with this and "stuff they will never be able to 100% control" (ie. PB) aren't the same people who's job it is to put a decent product on the pitch. The person who technically
"worries" about both, TA, wouldn't be too invlved in this decision cause he hired guys like PB to deal with it

DichioTFC
05-04-2010, 12:40 PM
I am in favour for trading the FO for one that can deliver what counts, a good side.

I hear you, but thats a different discussion for a different thread.


That's the funny thing. It's security's word against yours..

Guess who always wins?

Look how long it took for them to figure out who threw the drink at Ron Artest in the brawl a few years back. Compliance is dependent upon fans cooperating with security and police, but thats not likely if fans are distrusting of the security (from what I've seen, the police have not been a major issue).

Security must improve relations with the fans as well. The reason I stopped going to Jays games was not because of the on-field product, but because of security over-harassment. When Zach Greinke came to Toronto last year or the year before (when he was on fire), I was sitting behind the opposing team's bullpen and we were getting hassled by security for what they perceived was inappropriate behaviour, talking amongst ourselves about his fastball and slider not being as accurate in pre-game catch. That game 15 people were booted from that section (my friends and I were not) for little to no reason and the security guys were bragging to each other about how many fans they kicked out individually.

Like I said, for the FO to take the steps to reach out to fans is very good. But security is an entity unto itself that can influence fan behaviour more directly than the FO because of the security's closer proximity during game time. I feel this should be addressed because if security harassment persists, the Jays wont be the only ones with a stadium at 20% capacity.

MrHawk
05-04-2010, 12:41 PM
I have no problems at all with security cracking down on idiots at BMO................but it has to be done properly and responsibly.

trane
05-04-2010, 12:41 PM
^ Well then TA is as responsible for the teams failure as MO, as the person he hired is failing. The buck should stop with him.

Wagner
05-04-2010, 12:45 PM
That didn't take long.

You found me out though. PB hired myself and Parkdale to infiltrate the supporters groups and advocate on his behalf.

I'm not sure where you extrapolated that I'm "offended" in any way, but please, go ahead and go with that. I appreciate the "if you don't disagree with everything the FO does, you're obviously on the payroll" angle you're playing too, it's so charming.

I knew it!!!

http://cmacivor.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/tin-foil-hat2.jpg

Rudi
05-04-2010, 12:46 PM
I have no angle. But by your post responding to Hawk, pretty generic comment, that you were offended. By the way both me and Hawk do not have a problem with what the FO is stating in principal. The timing of what seems to be a crack down is suspect. Particularly in light of the not allowing the flags in incidents.
How is the timing suspect?

Some asshole hit a designated player (whom you know the league will protect fiercely) with a bottle of Gatorade, under the cover of a streamer shower. That happened a week and a half ago, and we haven't had a home MLS match since.

Shaughno
05-04-2010, 12:47 PM
How is the timing suspect?

Some asshole hit a designated player (whom you know the league will protect fiercely) with a bottle of Gatorade, under the cover of a streamer shower. That happened a week and a half ago, and we haven't had a home MLS match since.


I agree with most of what you're saying Rudi, but the bottle didn't actually hit him... only a streamer did. ;) The bottle did come pretty close though. :lol:

Don Julio
05-04-2010, 12:50 PM
The only think that worries me about this is the amount of power the Seattle fans will think they have when they see this, like their messiah complex needed any boost.

trane
05-04-2010, 12:50 PM
^ This is not the only thing Rudi, as I said in my own section a guy got tossed for being lowed, and it was done without a warning. If that is no heavy handed I am not sure what is. Tossing some one from a footy game for being load, I mean you have to be real biased to think that seems reasonable.


I have said this before, and I will say it again, while having a good relationship with the FO is important that relationship should be a ballanced one. I will leave it at that.

jaahuuu
05-04-2010, 12:51 PM
Whatever...I couldn't hit the field from my seat if I wanted to.

Ladies Love Julius James
05-04-2010, 12:51 PM
Holy crap what a shitshow.

For the people complaining about security. MLSE has some weird policy where you don't have to show up to work you could quit anytime. There are days when like 5-10 people quit and there is no one. So they get ushers and shit. These Ushers are 19 year olds earning 12.75 an hour and some of them are small girls LOL do you really think they could handle a BMO crowd? I've worked security at times and even I got fustrated. How many times do you tell people to stop smoking or calm the swearing. I had one dude push a girl down stairs and shit. It's a mess, get netting it would solve all problems.

jabbronies
05-04-2010, 12:51 PM
So i guess the question for me is:

Considering security were doing a piss poor job before hand of handling these situations, What is TFC FO doing to ensure that the security staff are apprehending the right people?

Also,

How can TFC FO ensure us, the supporters, that the security staff will be able to enforce these rules without increasing their need to power trip? As it seems there is a problem already where this is happening.

Rudi
05-04-2010, 12:52 PM
I agree with most of what you're saying Rudi, but the bottle didn't actually hit him... only a streamer did. ;) The bottle did come pretty close though. :lol:
True enough. Knowing FL, had it hit him he likely would have found a new way to fall and embellish.

Regardless, the point remains. It took a DP nearly getting hit to finally get the league's attention. That's why I doubt this is an FO initiative. I mean, why would they care if people are throwing shit at opposing players? They haven't for over three years now.

Globetrotter
05-04-2010, 12:53 PM
What if we throw Mo on the field?

Yeoman
05-04-2010, 12:55 PM
True enough. Knowing FL, had it hit him he likely would have found a new way to fall and embellish.

Regardless, the point remains. It took a DP nearly getting hit to finally get the league's attention. That's why I doubt this is an FO initiative. I mean, why would they care if people are throwing shit at opposing players? They haven't for over three years now.

I bet that amazing ground breaking journalism at MLSR helped in getting this to happen

Wagner
05-04-2010, 12:55 PM
the bottle came from the West Stands.
I think that should be noted.

We don't need amped up security in the south end.

Red Rat
05-04-2010, 12:56 PM
If there is an opportunity for an idiot to do do something unnoticed, he will always do it!! how many will have the balls to stand up and throw something while everyone is looking?
What I am getting at is that as long as you allow streamers to be thrown you will have the coward hiding and tossing a projectile at a player is a matter of time until someone gets hurt.

Nothing should be thrown period, give them no chance to hide.

trane
05-04-2010, 12:56 PM
I bet that amazing ground breaking journalism at MLSR helped in getting this to happen


Yeah, that was watergate level shit.

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 12:57 PM
the bottle came from the West Stands.
I think that should be noted.

We don't need amped up security in the south end.


MY fear is that is exactly what we will see. It will be an issue of perception over reality.

Rudi
05-04-2010, 12:57 PM
^ This is not the only thing Rudi, as I said in my own section a guy got tossed for being lowed, and it was done without a warning. If that is no heavy handed I am not sure what is. Tossing some one from a footy game for being load, I mean you have to be real biased to think that seems reasonable.
I'm not sure if you're talking about the general "you" or specifically me here, but I've said nothing about this, so any talk about bias - if you're pointing it at me - is misplaced.

It's no secret that some security guards are assholes. That's a different conversation altogether.

Wagner
05-04-2010, 01:01 PM
The South End gets it.
a lot of the bad behaviour in that south WEST corner is the WEST side.
the Prawnies.
The Douches that show up the game wear Abercrombie and popped collars...
they see a couple of streamers...and feel entitled...and wooosh....Full Powerade at Seattles DP.

The cap was still on.
And it came from the Upper west side...
aren't caps still on bottles "served" in the private boxes??

trane
05-04-2010, 01:02 PM
Rudi,

I am talking in general, and I have said it before, and I understant that the leadership in the group in particular has to mantain good relationship, but as was discussed before when you become too close, it can become difficult to be critical. But this was disccused before and I will leave it at that.

It is also nothing against Paul, he just is the only one that is on here, and credit has to go to him for that.

trane
05-04-2010, 01:03 PM
The South End gets it.
a lot of the bad behaviour in that south WEST corner is the WEST side.
the Prawnies.
The Douches that show up the game wear Abercrombie and popped collars...
they see a couple of streamers...and feel entitled...and wooosh....Full Powerade at Seattles DP.

The cap was still on.
And it came from the Upper west side...
aren't caps still on bottles "served" in the private boxes??

That is right it is a class issue. Eat the rich, as per Motorhead.

Wagner
05-04-2010, 01:07 PM
That is right it is a class issue. Eat the rich, as per Motorhead.

my point is that the solution that has been imposed on TFC FO by the league is increased security.
More Vigilent staff (which means over the top security meat heads) will be focused at the south end.

When the perpetrator is from upper 120/121.

jabbronies
05-04-2010, 01:07 PM
the bottle came from the West Stands.
I think that should be noted.

We don't need amped up security in the south end.

I'm just going to quote posts that make sense so that they are heard more often.

jabbronies
05-04-2010, 01:08 PM
The South End gets it.
a lot of the bad behaviour in that south WEST corner is the WEST side.
the Prawnies.
The Douches that show up the game wear Abercrombie and popped collars...
they see a couple of streamers...and feel entitled...and wooosh....Full Powerade at Seattles DP.

The cap was still on.
And it came from the Upper west side...
aren't caps still on bottles "served" in the private boxes??

This one makes sense as well....

trane
05-04-2010, 01:09 PM
my point is that the solution that has been imposed on TFC FO by the league is increased security.
More Vigilent staff (which means over the top security meat heads) will be focused at the south end.

When the perpetrator is from upper 120/121.

I agree. I am just bugging.

Ben - D.O.W.
05-04-2010, 01:10 PM
I'd like some form of assurance that security has the proper oversight and control. That they are going to be able to identify the offenders accurately and there is recourse available to me if they fail.

I've met security guards at BMO and a number of away games who have been friendly, helpful and curteous. I've also met some who for no real apparent reason are none of these things. Without everything Pookie has outlined I can't say I'm comfortable with the whole increased power for security, seeing as 'some' bad apples on security's side is more than enough to ruin games for people.

Rudi
05-04-2010, 01:12 PM
my point is that the solution that has been imposed on TFC FO by the league is increased security.
More Vigilent staff (which means over the top security meat heads) will be focused at the south end.

When the perpetrator is from upper 120/121.
I would hope not, given that PB in his original post said:

"I want you to know that this is due to some people in the southwest corner who cannot keep their heads during a game. South east and north west corners generally get it."

I have no doubt that myself and the other SG heads will hold him to that. Unless of course, we've become too close to the FO to be critical. :rolleyes:

Ladies Love Julius James
05-04-2010, 01:12 PM
To Ben, No one wants to work their that's the problem. The people who work security at BMO do graduations and dances and weddings. They are not used to this environment yet almost on a weekly basis there are incidents of spitting on people, guys with weapons and people wanting to fight beer bendors after the 65th minute because they are closing up shot. I sympathize with the security because it's a very undesirable job and it pushes them to the brink.

Number Nine
05-04-2010, 01:13 PM
You know, what if we ALL threw streamers during corners? They can't kick us all out, lest they want empty pockets of seats at BMO. I'm all for streamers being thrown, because streamers never hurt anybody, and it really does add to the atmosphere at BMO field. I think it's part of the identity of the fans, and I don't want that taken away from us. On a side note, I loathe the jackknob that decided to throw the bottle on the field during the Sounders game, because that is what ignited this issue in the first place.

Gixmo
05-04-2010, 01:13 PM
maybe it's because i know how to fucking behave?


Liar liar, pants on fire!

:D

Ladies Love Julius James
05-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Unless of course, we've become too close to the FO to be critical. :rolleyes:

That's been the case for a long time. People have been fed bullshit for so long that it becomes reality. Not the leaders of the Sgs but SGs in general pertaining to TFC.

Wagner
05-04-2010, 01:15 PM
I would hope not, given that PB in his original post said:

"I want you to know that this is due to some people in the southwest corner who cannot keep their heads during a game. South east and north west corners generally get it."

I have no doubt that myself and the other SG heads will hold him to that. Unless of course, we've become too close to the FO to be critical. :rolleyes:

it's splitting hairs...but he says south west corner.

What if DeRo got on the Mic after the anthems and tells the fans that "it's not cool to throw things on the Pitch."

Rudi
05-04-2010, 01:16 PM
That's been the case for a long time. People have been fed bullshit for so long that it becomes reality. Not the leaders of the Sgs but SGs in general pertaining to TFC.
Right.

trane
05-04-2010, 01:16 PM
I have no doubt that myself and the other SG heads will hold him to that. Unless of course, we've become too close to the FO to be critical. :rolleyes:

Listen the RPB encourages discussion, I am not sure what the policy about that is with the other groups, and I do not care. But I sure hope that someone from our leadership will be more open to discussion and comments from their members. I am sure they are.

Rudi
05-04-2010, 01:16 PM
it's splitting hairs...but he says south west corner.

What if DeRo got on the Mic after the anthems and tells the fans that "it's not cool to throw things on the Pitch."
75% of the crowd would not hear it because they haven't yet gotten to the stadium. :D

Ladies Love Julius James
05-04-2010, 01:17 PM
it's splitting hairs...but he says south west corner.

What if DeRo got on the Mic after the anthems and tells the fans that "it's not cool to throw things on the Pitch."


Not a bad idea though I wonder how effective it would be because I'm going on the assumption that the people throwing shit acting uncivilized are the ones who only know Dero as "the guy with the braids"

Ladies Love Julius James
05-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Listen the RPB encourages discussion, I am not sure what the policy about that is with the other groups, and I do not care.


.....and bingo was his name-o.

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 01:20 PM
What if DeRo got on the Mic after the anthems and tells the fans that "it's not cool to throw things on the Pitch."

I like this idea.

Wull
05-04-2010, 01:22 PM
When we had one guy (I won't give a description, lest we get into profiling) "policing" 104 for 3 games we ended up with around 25 removals with no real change in behaviour. For every other game there was barely anyone spoken to let alone removed.

How will the FO deal with the kind of situation caused by someone who has an extraordinarily high record of ejections compared to his colleagues and the areas he's assigned to suddenly having a large increase too?

McBrace
05-04-2010, 01:25 PM
I agree with most of what you're saying Rudi, but the bottle didn't actually hit him... only a streamer did. ;) The bottle did come pretty close though. :lol:

Come to think of it, wasn't the bottle actually Powerade? LOL...

Imagine if it did hit him? Do you think our players might experiance the same treatment abroad?

Rudi
05-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Listen the RPB encourages discussion, I am not sure what the policy about that is with the other groups, and I do not care. But I sure hope that someone from our leadership will be more open to discussion and comments from their members. I am sure they are.
More open than whom, me?

You really have no fucking clue what you're talking about given what you're insinuating here

Please enlighten me as to how I've not been open to discussion and comments by taking part in a discussion. RPB leadership is fine with me saying what I'm saying here, precisely because it's an open discussion.

I'm sorry my not getting angry over the streamer issue doesn't jibe with your getting angry at unrelated issues.

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 01:27 PM
I have no idea what happened in this thread but let's get back on track here.

trane
05-04-2010, 01:29 PM
^ Thank you I sit in 104 and it is one of the most tame section, and yet they have removed 25 people for what???? I new it was alot but 25 is just silly. I have to think you number is pretty accurate.

koryo
05-04-2010, 01:31 PM
Okay, let's recap:

• strict enforcement of ejection policy
• largest concern is that security, already having a poor track record, will just abuse it as this is really the only power in life they have
• trane & Rudi are talking about something that bears no direct relevance and should either take it to PM or drop it

Did I miss anything?

trane
05-04-2010, 01:31 PM
More open than whom, me?

You really have no fucking clue what you're talking about given what you're insinuating here

Please enlighten me as to how I've not been open to discussion and comments by taking part in a discussion. RPB leadership is fine with me saying what I'm saying here, precisely because it's an open discussion.

I'm sorry my not getting angry over the streamer issue doesn't jibe with your getting angry at unrelated issues.

Dude, when someone makes a point that disagrees with yours and you role your eyes, that tells me you are not open to discussion. Anyway I will respect RPB leadership and move on.

Pookie
05-04-2010, 01:32 PM
I don't see any point in debating the "timing" of this policy.

It's been clear from day one that throwing things on the pitch wasn't acceptable. MLS has made "Fan Codes of Conduct" over the years and we have that new "Yellow/Red Card" thing as a result.

What is new is that the FO is now appearing ready to enforce the rules.

Part of the problem I see is the perception that folks have gotten away with things. Evidence suggests that in some cases, like the flare throwers, people were caught... with the help of people in that section... but the outcome of that incident didn't seem to be publicized. Did the charges stick, was jail time (or other punishment) served? Are they banned? for life? What happened to their ticket rights?

This is a communication issue.

For the most part, when streamers were thrown, the Cops would actually toss them back. Indicting clearly that such behaviour wasn't unacceptable at all and we would in fact be flaunting MLS' rules.

Clearly, MLS has had enough and the FO has had to act. It's not an apologetic stance to view it that way. If the FO was concerned, they would have acted long ago and certainly wouldn't have allowed cops to throw streamers back to the stands to be used again on the next corner.

So, we've always had the rules. What is different is the desire to enforce them.

I think the debate should be focussed on:

- does the FO have control over the security staff they employ? Considering "Banner-Gate", I'm not so sure. If throwing streamers is ok at some points and not others... who decides if the point it is thrown is appropriate? I could toss one during a stoppage that gets caught in the wind and ends up floating to the GK and interferring with play. Is that cool?

- is there a recourse for folks that have been mistakenly identified? There is a lot at stake now if the yellow/red card program is going to be implemented. We deserve to know if there are cameras in place that we could use in our defense if we ever find ourselves in that position

- How is this message going to be communicated? You've had the announcements pre-game since day one and clearly, streamer throwing was condoned. Will you add a "we are REALLY serious this time"? As you know, many seats are purchased off scalpers. Since you know who the scalpers are (but don't act on it), are you planning a direct mailer to them that they can give to their customers? ;)

- That is a serious point because one issue is the identification of the thrower(s). The other is getting them out of the building without incident... or that incident growing into a bigger one

Oldtimer
05-04-2010, 01:41 PM
You know, what if we ALL threw streamers during corners? They can't kick us all out, lest they want empty pockets of seats at BMO. I'm all for streamers being thrown, because streamers never hurt anybody, and it really does add to the atmosphere at BMO field. I think it's part of the identity of the fans, and I don't want that taken away from us. On a side note, I loathe the jackknob that decided to throw the bottle on the field during the Sounders game, because that is what ignited this issue in the first place.

Protest for the right to streamers? There are many more serious issues facing TFC... I think we can let streamers drop. Besides, as others have said, it's so 2007.

trane
05-04-2010, 01:42 PM
^ Seriously, the FO are within their right to ask for a stop. I do not think most are concenred about this particular policy.

Red CB Toronto
05-04-2010, 01:43 PM
Paul, on an unrelated manner I have one question for you, can you give us the details on how the TFC Academy games are being handled including the season opener this Saturday vs. Portugal FC. We are wondering if you can leave the stadium like in the past with the reserve games and also if someone who does not have a ticket for the Reds can they come into BMO for the CSL game? Thank you in advance.

Nodoubtguy
05-04-2010, 01:44 PM
are people actually complaining here??

Shit gets thrown all the time and I am always embarrassed about how classless that makes all of us look. Maybe we all have a responsibility to identify those throwers so that they are banned for life. Until that day comes where we police ourselves in the stands....we gotta deal with security (who in reality are just doing the jobs they are paid to do)

koryo
05-04-2010, 01:49 PM
are people actually complaining here??

Shit gets thrown all the time and I am always embarrassed about how classless that makes all of us look. Maybe we all have a responsibility to identify those throwers so that they are banned for life. Until that day comes where we police ourselves in the stands....we gotta deal with security (who in reality are just doing the jobs they are paid to do)

I agree with most of this, just not the part about security doing their jobs. They don't do them particularly well. Now they've been given further power to act with impunity.

Nodoubtguy
05-04-2010, 01:51 PM
I agree with most of this, just not the part about security doing their jobs. They don't do them particularly well. Now they've been given further power to act with impunity.

They don't do them well by our standards, but what are they trained to do?? I bet not more then we see.....but thats a different issue

koryo
05-04-2010, 01:54 PM
They don't do them well by our standards, but what are they trained to do??

Bingo. Whatever training they receive, clearly not enough.

Nodoubtguy
05-04-2010, 01:56 PM
Bingo. Whatever training they receive, clearly not enough.

but thats what minimum wage buys you......and I don't expect it to change

koryo
05-04-2010, 01:58 PM
but thats what minimum wage buys you......and I don't expect it to change

I'm stopping now. I can't enter into those discussions that make excuses for mediocrity. I see where you're coming from, I know it's typical FO etc etc.

But it's not good enough. Just like the GM, the team and the fucking Sunday league football they play.

Not good enough.

trane
05-04-2010, 01:59 PM
Alright what is the BMO policy for tossing dudes from the stadium? In general, under what circumstances can they do that?

trane
05-04-2010, 02:00 PM
I'm stopping now. I can't enter into those discussions that make excuses for mediocrity. I see where you're coming from, I know it's typical FO etc etc.

But it's not good enough. Just like the GM, the team and the fucking Sunday league football they play.

Not good enough.


A-FUCKING-MEN.

Ladies Love Julius James
05-04-2010, 02:05 PM
Alright what is the BMO policy for tossing dudes from the stadium? In general, under what circumstances can they do that?


Public Intoxication
If they've been warned for something and can't calm down
Throwing shit on the field
Fighting
Breaking a Seat
Smoking
Bringing in their own booze

Brooker
05-04-2010, 02:06 PM
It was only a matter of time until we saw this coming. I want you to know that this is due to some security guards in the southwest corner who are either blind or just refuse to enforce the rules.

But as a result of the lazy Security Guards at the Seattle game, they will be instructed to finally do their jobs and enforce zero tolerance for items being thrown during the game to impact play. Mainly this is corner kicks but any other time in-game or at players as well.


Fixed your post.

trane
05-04-2010, 02:06 PM
^ Well the warning part I have not seen in 104, cats just seem to be thrown out no warning. "Public Intoxication" they make money from Public Intoxication, most of the south end could be tossed for public intoxication.

Ladies Love Julius James
05-04-2010, 02:08 PM
^ Well the warning part I have not seen in 104, cats just seem to be thrown out no warning. "Public Intoxication" they make money from Public Intoxication, most of the south end could be tossed for public intoxication.

It's illegal though LOl some cops enforce it. Usually you get one warning from an Usher but to be honest if someone was thrown out 90% of the time someone in that section came down and complained.

ilikemusic
05-04-2010, 02:19 PM
While this warning means nothing to me; I dont throw things and I almost never drink (and certainly am never drunk) at TFC games, I am always concerned when I hear MLSE talk about security.

I will never go to a Raptor game again because of the way I was treated by the 'security' at thr ACC this past season. They werent physical with me, but they were incredibly disrespectful. Treating me like a common thug because I was trying to look at the players corridor after all the players had left.

I dont care what the reason, whenever MLSE talks about security, I become suspicious.

Believe it or not, but there are plenty of 'one bad apple's working security for MLSE just as there are plenty of them attending events.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-04-2010, 02:22 PM
NEW CHANT FOR SATURDAY!!!:drinking::rolleyes:


Some people call me a bad apple
Well I may be bruised but I still taste sweet
Some people call me a bad apple
But I may be the sweetest apple on the tree

qRxR5VQLa6A

Shaughno
05-04-2010, 02:25 PM
NEW CHANT FOR SUNDAY!!!:drinking::rolleyes:


Some people call me a bad apple
Well I may be bruised but I still taste sweet
Some people call me a bad apple
But I may be the sweetest apple on the tree

qRxR5VQLa6A

:rofl: Yesssss! I fucking love Wilcox... I've been trying to figure out a good way to get The Bearcat as a song LOL

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-04-2010, 02:26 PM
edit SATURDAY!! ;)

J .
05-04-2010, 02:35 PM
Seriously guys. Calls for CCTV, lifetime bans, less beer, more security... Seriously?....Is this a supporters group or soccer mom forum? Why dont we give security tazers while we are at it? Maybe microchips so they can track us.

This is another problem, not created by the supporter groups, that is leading for further restrictions, why?

Just put everyone in a bubble so nothing bad happens. BMO is becoming the wrong type of fortress.

So, whats the number of people hurt by things thrown vs incidents of overzealous security? Just saying, lets add more security, cause streamers really hurt people.

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 02:39 PM
Seriously guys. Calls for CCTV, lifetime bans, less beer, more security... Seriously?....Is this a supporters group or soccer mom forum? Why dont we give security tazers while we are at it? Maybe microchips so they can track us.

This is another problem, not created by the supporter groups, that is leading for further restrictions, why?

Just put everyone in a bubble so nothing bad happens. BMO is becoming the wrong type of fortress.

So, whats the number of people hurt by things thrown vs incidents of overzealous security? Just saying, lets add more security, cause streamers really hurt people.


I don't understand this point of view.

A supporter's group supports the team on the pitch. What does the adminstration of the stadium have to do with our support of the team? Or is it a requirement of supporters groups to be against CCTV? I'd like to see that rulebook. I haven't had the pleasure of reading it yet.

Nodoubtguy
05-04-2010, 02:42 PM
I don't get the anti CCTV thing either.....if your not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about

Pookie
05-04-2010, 02:45 PM
I don't understand this point of view.

A supporter's group supports the team on the pitch. What does the adminstration of the stadium have to do with our support of the team? Or is it a requirement of supporters groups to be against CCTV? I'd like to see that rulebook. I haven't had the pleasure of reading it yet.

Agreed.

Not sure what the issue is with CCTV.

Is it that people don't want to be caught doing something? Or do they think that security gets it right every single time and have no need to access video to prove innocence?

I'm not a big brother fan by any stretch but I'm also not a fan of distributing absolute power to a group of people with no oversights in place. Considering the size of the group in question, 20,000 strong... 15,000 on cold, rainy weekdays... video is a powerful tool that could prevent abuses of power (or simply abuse in general)

Oldtimer
05-04-2010, 02:45 PM
So, whats the number of people hurt by things thrown vs incidents of overzealous security? Just saying, lets add more security, cause streamers really hurt people.

Idiots inspired by streamers to throw bottles on the pitch can hurt people.

trane
05-04-2010, 03:04 PM
^ As I said in the RCT, the problem on my side, is that it is hard for me to get overlly concnered about any of this, in light of the shit that has gone down for years in European stadiums, even when I was there. I get that one can lead to another, and that we need to ensure that we do not have the over the top shit, I get it and I agree with the FO and RPB leadership that we have to be vigilent about this. BUT emotional I cannot get worked up about it. Having said that I do get worked up when people start getting tossed without apparent cause.


I am not sure that there is a direct corelation between streamers and bottles. People that throught a bottle at a player, may use people throwing streamers as cover, but that is about it.

I know personaly I more often feel like throwing shit at our own players. BUT DO NOT. [joke]

Gobi
05-04-2010, 03:36 PM
NEW CHANT FOR SATURDAY!!!:drinking::rolleyes:


Some people call me a bad apple
Well I may be bruised but I still taste sweet
Some people call me a bad apple
But I may be the sweetest apple on the tree

[youtube]



I think the real tragedy to come from all of this is the resurrection of David Wilcox's career.
Won't somebody please think of the children?


:rolleyes::D


PS- I am anti-throwing stuff but also anti-overzealous security. I have nothing to hide from CCTV, but prefer to spend my time behind the lens. Tough one.
I wish the ticket scanners had a built-in douchebag-o-meter and that would solve everything.

Derko
05-04-2010, 03:37 PM
For the record I agree 100% and any numpty throwing bottles and such should be tossed and their STH rights be revoked.

Mikey
05-04-2010, 03:57 PM
Not sure what the issue is with CCTV.


Could be a major issue for the group I see skinning up a joint most games :D

Yeoman
05-04-2010, 03:59 PM
i still want to hear what's one bad thing about have CCTV to watch us?
zomg lost freedoms?!? grow up, like as i've said, and already been said
unless you're one of the fucktards fucking things up for the regular joes like us, then you have nothing to worry about
all for a life time ban

Roogsy
05-04-2010, 04:03 PM
Could be a major issue for the group I see skinning up a joint most games :D


Meh...I don't think the team would care. They're looking for violations that would affect the play on the pitch...or safety of individuals. I don't think CCTV would increase or decrease the likelihood of getting caught lighting up in the stands. :stogey:

Yeoman
05-04-2010, 04:05 PM
would they get mad at me for throwing a lip of chewing tobacco in?!? lol

Whoop
05-04-2010, 04:10 PM
I'm against throwing stuff on the pitch, but also against CCTV.

I mean why not just fingerprint everyone coming into the stadium? Someone throws something, you get a print and bam, culprit caught.

If I get caught giving a player the finger or if someone is smoking a cigarette or if someone swears, how do we know that image or video won't be used against someone?

If you have a group of overzealous fans cheering, swearing, having a good time, but no one is complaining, can they be targeted?

I've been to Jays games where I've seen security threaten teenagers for being "too loud".

I'm not keen on the current security team at BMO doing a good job without being overzealous and causing more problems or creating problems that really don't exist.

denime
05-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Remember that beer that hit PR's goalie in the head?????? We saw where it came from, but no way security could identify 100% the culprit.

Unless you have 100% proof, how do you start ejecting people? If that's the case, I'm ejecting that Cheeba guy...........weird cat he is.

Oh no, he was caught right away.The guy was just one row behind me and for the first time at BMO.
He was thrown out right away,no discussion Police was there too.

GBV
05-04-2010, 05:14 PM
It's all so 2007 anyways. It hasn't been the same and it's beginning to look lame.

And it leads to boneheads throwing stupid bottles and making all Toronto fans look like douchebags.

Now only if we could tailgate like it was 2007 . . . !:drum:

prizby
05-04-2010, 05:32 PM
im just sad that it took til 2009 for me to be a tfc fan missing all the days where the corners would blanket blanco and lopez etc with streamers

true shame

thanks paul though, you always find me ways to save money :) (in terms of not buying streamers anymore :) )

gtaguy
05-04-2010, 05:48 PM
What cctv cameras.. They already have those match analysis cameras they placed on top of the west side roof that were supposed to be able to capture video and assist the coaches in bettering players positioning and tactics.

Rest assured these puppies will be redirected onto the supporters areas becuase it appears there is more action in the stands then on the field. .:D

TFC Via Buffalo
05-04-2010, 05:52 PM
What cctv cameras.. They already have those match analysis cameras they placed on top of the west side roof that were supposed to be able to capture video and assist the coaches in bettering players positioning and tactics.

Rest assured these puppies will be redirected onto the supporters areas becuase it appears there is more action in the stands then on the field. .:D

Next game, look up at the lighting pole behind 112. The is a camera right up there looking into 111 and 110. Didn't notice it untill it was pointed out to me by the DOW's last Wed.

gtaguy
05-04-2010, 06:14 PM
Next game, look up at the lighting pole behind 112. The is a camera right up there looking into 111 and 110. Didn't notice it untill it was pointed out to me by the DOW's last Wed.

I seriously say that we should be very appreciative at the fact that were not south america.And if a bottle is all were throwing then its nothing compared to stadiums in latin countries. From my experience being at games in latin america people would piss in bags and launch them at players when they run by. I remember me asking the old man about the rain drops and him explaining to me what it really was. Or what about empyting all your pockets of loose change and making them into projectiles directed at the players.. I know becuase i got a 500 peso coin right in the forehead once..

I just hope that i didn't give anyone any bright ideas.

greatwhitenorf
05-04-2010, 06:46 PM
How about this approach in Peru, at the Lima derby between Estudiantes and Universitario?

A group of workers hustle carts down the sideline at half time to pick up all the tossed fruit and veggies and then bring it back around under the stands to re-sell it again to fans for the second half.

greatwhitenorf
05-04-2010, 06:50 PM
Can we still hurl abuse?

At the press box.

If Cathal Kelly is there?

Bloor West FC
05-04-2010, 06:52 PM
I hope all the trowing crap stops at once as well. I just hope on the security side it is a positive identification "by security" of a person before they eject someone and just choose anyone in the area of an object being thrown.

gtaguy
05-04-2010, 07:53 PM
How about this approach in Peru, at the Lima derby between Estudiantes and Universitario?

A group of workers hustle carts down the sideline at half time to pick up all the tossed fruit and veggies and then bring it back around under the stands to re-sell it again to fans for the second half.

see what i mean.. were are small potatoes compared to other leagues.. A water bottle gets tossed even though i don't condone it and it opens up a market literraly.. fruits and veggies anyone..

rocker
05-04-2010, 08:02 PM
in latin america people would piss in bags and launch them at players .

that gives me an idea... it would certainly give new meaning to "piss on the fire!" this saturday ;)

gtaguy
05-04-2010, 08:04 PM
that gives me an idea... it would certainly give new meaning to "piss on the fire!" this saturday ;)


nice one rocker.. :D:picard:

J .
05-04-2010, 08:41 PM
Idiots inspired by streamers to throw bottles on the pitch can hurt people.

How many people have ever been hurt? Quantify the need for harsher rules.

J .
05-04-2010, 08:49 PM
I don't understand this point of view.

A supporter's group supports the team on the pitch. What does the adminstration of the stadium have to do with our support of the team? Or is it a requirement of supporters groups to be against CCTV? I'd like to see that rulebook. I haven't had the pleasure of reading it yet.

Well, for one, its not just CCTV, but its the whole policy of stacking rules upon rules, with violent security and cops when, a) no one has ever been hurt by a streamer b) there was no problems with flags until they created a situation.

Its typical, create the problem, provide the solution you want scenario.

So, a guy who throws a bottle, was not ejected, means there is a zero tolerance policy on anything, but they already admitted they cannot find the culprit. So now we all have to be on CCTV, watched by big brother.... Sorry guys, I am on the side of being free not being caged under the guide of "security."

As Ive said and its conveniently ignored, security has hurt more people than any streamer or any flag brought in.

Hitcho
05-04-2010, 08:50 PM
How many people have ever been hurt? Quantify the need for harsher rules.

This is a stupid philosophy. Quite clearly throwing full bottles of gatorade is dangerous and sooner or later someone will get hurt. Waiting for a player to have their head cut open or a crowd member concussed before you introduce the stricter rules is a facile argument in the extreme.

Yeoman
05-04-2010, 08:55 PM
i just find it interesting how J makes it sound like it's the government watching us with the CCTV

Hitcho
05-04-2010, 08:56 PM
So now we all have to be on CCTV, watched by big brother.... Sorry guys, I am on the side of being free not being caged under the guide of "security."

I'd rather not be on CCTV but honestly, who cares? If the club mis-use the footage then they'll be open to a lawsuit. Absent mis-use of the footage, I just don't see what the concern is. You're on CCTV every time you go on the subway and walk round most big office block buildings these days anyway, not to mention in banks and at gas stations. What difference does it make if TFC is added to the list, and wouldn't you rather be able to say "check the CCTV footage and you'll see you have no fucking reason to eject me" if security does everr try and hoist you for no good reason?

marshall_law
05-04-2010, 09:26 PM
+1 hitcho.

if you don't like certain security measures (which are pretty prevalent in current society anyways), don't attend games at the stadium. if cctv is eventually adopted, it's mlse's right to do so. it's not an invasion of your privacy - you're voluntarily attending an event in a public place. if you have that much of a problem with it, don't attend an event where you're knowingly subjecting yourself to being monitored by cameras.


As Ive said and its conveniently ignored, security has hurt more people than any streamer or any flag brought in.

it's been ignored because this argument is ridiculous. surely, projectiles thrown on the field from the stands have injured either other fans or players themselves. so, what, just because security has (supposedly) caused more injuries, there's no need to police stuff being thrown on the field? c'mon.

bones
05-04-2010, 09:43 PM
I'd rather not be on CCTV but honestly, who cares? If the club mis-use the footage then they'll be open to a lawsuit. Absent mis-use of the footage, I just don't see what the concern is. You're on CCTV every time you go on the subway and walk round most big office block buildings these days anyway, not to mention in banks and at gas stations. What difference does it make if TFC is added to the list, and wouldn't you rather be able to say "check the CCTV footage and you'll see you have no fucking reason to eject me" if security does everr try and hoist you for no good reason?

CCTV is very valuable when it can clearly show that beating the security guard into vegie juice is self defence.

Bones...

T0R0NT0 FC
05-04-2010, 10:14 PM
I agree that throwing things has to stop and I'm surprised that streamers have been tolerated being tossed at players taking corners for this long. But, I'm still shocked that no matter how many times issues have been brought up to the MLSE about there power tripping security at the stadium nothing ever seems to be done about it.

s2cazz
05-04-2010, 10:30 PM
Hey Paul how about my concerns where people were actually hurt? I sent you a PM about this thread how about a response?

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1008728#post1008728

Throwing shit on the pitch is absolute BS but CCTV is not the answer. People get caught without it.

Whats the policy on beer showers? I like to throw my $100 beer straight up in the air after a goal. Will I get kicked out for that? I'm not throwing it on the pitch.

J .
05-04-2010, 10:55 PM
I believe that CCTV is in use far too much in society. Its not solved the crime problem - anywhere. If it did, Britain would be crime free.

Has ANYONE been hurt by a streamer? Have I ever said people should be able to throw objects to hurt people?

What I am not for is less freedom to catch one person, who, most likely will get caught anyway.

Why are my concerns that we have had worse problems with the security than with streamers ridiculous? I KNOW more people have been hurt by security. FACT.

Waggy
05-04-2010, 11:33 PM
I believe that CCTV is in use far too much in society. Its not solved the crime problem - anywhere. If it did, Britain would be crime free.

Has ANYONE been hurt by a streamer? Have I ever said people should be able to throw objects to hurt people?

What I am not for is less freedom to catch one person, who, most likely will get caught anyway.

Why are my concerns that we have had worse problems with the security than with streamers ridiculous? I KNOW more people have been hurt by security. FACT.

Skydome and the ACC both have CCTV. Never heard any complaints. In fact, the ACC has a full security 'bunker' like in european footy stadiums (to the right of either the press box or the upper boxes. I forget which end it is. Get all turned around in there). How does CCTV negatively impact you beyond the "big brother is watching" concept? Does it prevent you from supporting the team and enjoying the game? No. Does it prevent you from being kicked out and or charged with an offense someone near you committed but that you didn't? Yes.

It's not about 'people haven't been hurt by the streamers'. It's about a league rule thats in place for all teams, but had been ignored here. Rules don't work like that. Just because we here in Toronto are capable of throwing streamers, and by and large only streamers, doesn't mean that fans in Seattle (glass bottle lobbed at a keeper) or other clubs won't throw other things that COULD hurt someone. League rules apply to the league, not just teams other than TFC. Gotta be fair to everyone. Besides, as has been said previously, at this point the streamers are a shadow of what they were.

grizzle
05-04-2010, 11:54 PM
I have no issue with someone getting tossed for throwing a bottle at a player, but streamers while annoying are realy just a mental distraction.

However, it is the FO perogative to do this. However, step by step you are moving toward killing the one thing that TFC had going for it, the atmposphere.

Personaly I do not care that much, I care about the product on the pitch, which has been consistently piss poor. But MLSE shuold watch it as in the end it may end up cutting its nose to spite its face.

In 104 we had a fan tossed for making to much noise. Nobody complained, none of the regulars at least, but security tossed him no warning. Most wore unpleasenlty suprised by this, and most are not what I would I described as supporters.

+1... My thoughts exactly.

gate7
05-05-2010, 12:05 AM
Can I still pee on my friends shoe?

ExiledRed
05-05-2010, 12:13 AM
I'm all for cctv, the more footage of us being awesome recorded for posterity the better.

I'm not sure why its ok to have a tv camera pointed at me and my face broadcasted on national TV, but not to have a cctv record me scratching my arse.

When I read Paul's OP, I really thought he was going to tell us they were putting up a net. I'll take CCTV over that anytime, and I'd also like to see an end to the beer/bottle throwing problem that so far has robbed us of beer vendors, provoked the ire of the LCBO and filled the aisles with overbearing security guards.

Can someone tell me how footage of them at a football match can negatively impact their privacy and freedom please? Seriously, are you going to tell me that a corrupt government could use the footage to track your movements? This government cant even cross reference a drivers license with a health card.

H Bomb
05-05-2010, 02:20 AM
I just got home and found an infraction waiting for me because I mentioned that paul and others may not be great at what they do. Learn from my mistakes people...you can only talk about people behind their backs here.

Pookie
05-05-2010, 06:13 AM
I'm against throwing stuff on the pitch, but also against CCTV.

I mean why not just fingerprint everyone coming into the stadium? Someone throws something, you get a print and bam, culprit caught.

Just for consideration, everyone that goes into Disney World is fingerprinted.


If I get caught giving a player the finger or if someone is smoking a cigarette or if someone swears, how do we know that image or video won't be used against someone?

To some extent this happens already. Lots of fans end up being featured on Youtube without their knowledge (or consent). They could be the main feature like the drunk guy trying to tie his shoes or simply a bystander when something happens.


I'm not keen on the current security team at BMO doing a good job without being overzealous and causing more problems or creating problems that really don't exist.

Agreed 100%.

With Banner-Gate we are supposed to believe that Security took it upon themselves, with no guidance from the FO, to interpret the rules. In Paul's own words, "I can only assume at this point that someone took it upon themselves to become judge and jury..." (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=980308#post980308 ).

I am 100% in favour of banning the throwing of objects and the removal of ticket/access rights for those that do.

I am no where near convinced that security has the controls and oversight in place so that these rules are enforced in a just manner in that the correct individuals are identified.

Further, without CCTV, I would like to know what my recourse is under the Yellow/Red card program in the event that I get tossed (and my access rights threatened) if I am mistakenly identified?

With CCTV, I'd like to know that I would have access to the tapes in order to defend myself.

Lastly, I'd like to know that security is being watched and reviewed by the same cameras so as not to allow an absolute abuse of power.

ArmenJBX
05-05-2010, 07:04 AM
What's CCTV?

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
05-05-2010, 07:20 AM
What's CCTV?

Closed-circuit television.. To watch your every move ...!

http://i43.tinypic.com/i3cg95.jpg

5Oq4VjtuxJE

Example taken from the Millwall vs Westham...game last season......they can pick out all the BAD APPLES ;) that started that Pitch invasion!

http://i39.tinypic.com/230epy.jpg

Lucky Strike
05-05-2010, 07:44 AM
I understand those who have objections over the use of CCTV - but if security is going to be even more Gestapo-like than before, CCTV actually becomes your friend. Think about it, security folks are going to be filmed as well and knowing this could very well help adjust their attitude to begin with or dispose of the ones who don't get it.

MisterMacphisto
05-05-2010, 07:45 AM
"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

drewski
05-05-2010, 07:52 AM
I believe that CCTV is in use far too much in society. Its not solved the crime problem - anywhere. If it did, Britain would be crime free.

that's only one aspect of CCTV and while nice, never really the primary goal.

though comparing general crime to CCTV use in football stadiums where people aren't running away or actively trying to hide is comparing apples to oranges.

if a person is in an enclosed space and not moving for a while, like during a game, do you honestly think they'll be as likely to throw stuff if they know they are on camera? I know I'd be a lot less likely to throw stuff.

drewski
05-05-2010, 07:56 AM
"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."


Canadian freedoms are subject to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

McBrace
05-05-2010, 07:57 AM
I would much rather see CCTV over a net covering the south end. I have nothing to hide.

But will we have a right to view or use these images if security is abusing power??

Que the RPB defense team, I want representation at the BMO Court of Law!
I would like to challenge my Yellow or Red card..

Lucky Strike
05-05-2010, 08:00 AM
that's only one aspect of CCTV and while nice, never really the primary goal.

though comparing general crime to CCTV use in football stadiums where people aren't running away or actively trying to hide is comparing apples to oranges.

if a person is in an enclosed space and not moving for a while, like during a game, do you honestly think they'll be as likely to throw stuff if they know they are on camera? I know I'd be a lot less likely to throw stuff.

J. has a point - deterrence doesn't always work. Like if tomorrow, all laws against rape were removed and it became 100% legal, would you go out and do it? Using myself as an example, no, because that's just not in my nature. I'm not going to rape people whether it is illegal or not. And there are others who will do it regardless of its legality. Similarily, there are people who will always throw stuff regardless of CCTV and security personnel who will always abuse their power. But I do feel that CCTV can at least get rid of those that can't change their behaviour - supporter and guard alike. And that's why I'd have no issue with its introduction.

jabbronies
05-05-2010, 08:00 AM
I'd rather have CCTV than more security douche bags.

Shaughno
05-05-2010, 08:01 AM
I have no issues with CCTV in the stadium.

McBrace
05-05-2010, 08:06 AM
I'd rather have CCTV than more security douche bags.


Exactly.... Perhaps they can use this system to weed out the Douche Bags...

Roogsy
05-05-2010, 08:10 AM
I believe that CCTV is in use far too much in society. Its not solved the crime problem - anywhere. If it did, Britain would be crime free.

:picard:

boban
05-05-2010, 08:10 AM
Canadian freedoms are subject to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
And where is CCTV law?
I'm not a fan of it in the long run. It could be used against one for the most frivolous thing.

Oldtimer
05-05-2010, 08:12 AM
I'd rather have CCTV than more security douche bags.

I'd rather have CCTV than netting.

McBrace
05-05-2010, 08:13 AM
And where is CCTV law?
I'm not a fan of it in the long run. It could be used against one for the most frivolous thing.

Example?

trane
05-05-2010, 08:14 AM
I am for winning against Chicago in Saturday, while keeping a clean sheet.


There is not way you can prevent MLSE from installling CCTV at BMO if they wish to do so. Not going to get into a long legal argument over that. But that is the bottom line.

jabbronies
05-05-2010, 08:15 AM
CCTV will work both ways as well. if you are innocent or a security guard over-steps his boundaries, there will be proof. Just don't be a douche and you'll be fine.

boban
05-05-2010, 08:16 AM
Example?
Like a pitch invasion in celebration of a championship/playoff win/qualification.

drewski
05-05-2010, 08:17 AM
J. has a point - deterrence doesn't always work. Like if tomorrow, all laws against rape were removed and it became 100% legal, would you go out and do it? Using myself as an example, no, because that's just not in my nature. I'm not going to rape people whether it is illegal or not. And there are others who will do it regardless of its legality. Similarily, there are people who will always throw stuff regardless of CCTV and security personnel who will always abuse their power. But I do feel that CCTV can at least get rid of those that can't change their behaviour - supporter and guard alike. And that's why I'd have no issue with its introduction.


no, it doesn't always work, especially in a larger mroe fluid enviromnment like a city BUT, a)its not just for deterrance and b)it has been shown to work in football stadiums in the UK

McBrace
05-05-2010, 08:21 AM
Like a pitch invasion in celebration of a championship/playoff win/qualification.


Like year one, when they didn't do anything about it?

I guess if you invade the pitch, you take your chances.

I think this would be used more for the beer slinging retard then a massive pitch invasion. IMO

boban
05-05-2010, 08:23 AM
Like year one, when they didn't do anything about it?

I guess if you invade the pitch, you take your chances.

I think this would be used more for the beer slinging retard then a massive pitch invasion. IMO
There wasn't CCTV I believe.
And you think once they have it they would only use it for one purpose?
Ya right!!

Parkdale
05-05-2010, 08:24 AM
I'm against throwing stuff on the pitch, but also against CCTV.

I mean why not just fingerprint everyone coming into the stadium? Someone throws something, you get a print and bam, culprit caught.


kind of a stretch considering.... we are already on TV whenever the camera points at us
arguing for our 'right to privacy' like you'll typically find in arguments against CCTV goes right
out the window when part of the contractual agreement we enter as ticket holders is to
allow our images to be reproduced by the league.

I mean really, they already have cameras pointed at us.
it's very hard to argue that one kind of camera is okay while another is not.




(just putting that out there, I'm not a fan of CCTV either, but understand it's a sports venue)

s2cazz
05-05-2010, 08:29 AM
I want a fence I can climb.

drewski
05-05-2010, 08:31 AM
And where is CCTV law?
I'm not a fan of it in the long run. It could be used against one for the most frivolous thing.


use of CCTV's would fall under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.

Parkdale
05-05-2010, 08:35 AM
use of CCTV's would fall under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act and the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.



all of which goes out the window when we agree to the terms of being a ticketholder at a sporting event. We are already agreeing to being recorded by buying the ticket.

hell, they could just point a TV camera at our section (or any section) and leave it running. that wouldn't even fall under the category of CCTV, even though that's what it is.

drewski
05-05-2010, 08:36 AM
here are the relevant guidelines for overt and covert video surveillance


Guidance on Covert Video Surveillance in the Private Sector

http://www.priv.gc.ca/information/pub/gd_cvs_20090527_e.cfm


OPC Guidelines for the Use of Video Surveillance of Public Places by Police and Law Enforcement Authorities

http://www.priv.gc.ca/information/guide/vs_060301_e.cfm



and the one I think would probably be the most applicable

Guidelines for Overt Video Surveillance in the Private Sector

http://www.priv.gc.ca/information/guide/2008/gl_vs_080306_e.cfm

trane
05-05-2010, 08:37 AM
^ As I posted earlier there is little debate as to the right of the MLSE can install the CCTV. Whether it is the "right" thing to do vis vis the problem that they say is faced is another debate.

Parkdale
05-05-2010, 08:37 AM
usefull links.... but irrelevant in a sports stadium.

sorry to keep belaboring this point, but we're already agreeing to be on camera in our ticket contract. None of the usual rights and freedoms about privacy apply - we've waived them all.

McBrace
05-05-2010, 08:38 AM
I think everyone can agree that we want these beer/bottle throwers out, we don't want to see netting, most people don't like to be in a position where they have to rat someone out. Don't you wish that you could have evidence of security abusing power?So what is the answer to all this?

drewski
05-05-2010, 08:40 AM
all of which goes out the window when we agree to the terms of being a ticketholder at a sporting event. We are already agreeing to being recorded by buying the ticket.

hell, they could just point a TV camera at our section (or any section) and leave it running. that wouldn't even fall under the category of CCTV, even though that's what it is.


in this case specially yes, you do agree to the terms of the ticketholder agreement, but those terms have to be within the limits as set out by privacy (and other) laws.

when dealing with any private sector entity, there are always agreements, implicit or explicit, you are entered into to when dealing with them, and those private sector guidelines are relevant to those agreements

trane
05-05-2010, 08:40 AM
usefull links.... but irrelevant in a sports stadium.

sorry to keep belaboring this point, but we're already agreeing to be on camera in our ticket contract. None of the usual rights and freedoms about privacy apply - we've waived them all.

Even if there was ANY argument this season, by next season they could introdcue a more specifc waiver as a pre-condition to buying a ticket, and that would be the end of that.

Roogsy
05-05-2010, 08:41 AM
usefull links.... but irrelevant in a sports stadium.

sorry to keep belaboring this point, but we're already agreeing to be on camera in our ticket contract. None of the usual rights and freedoms about privacy apply - we've waived them all.


Yup.

All the tantrums and protestations are irrelevant and unecessary.

And for the record, let's remember here that TFC hasn't indicated they ARE putting in CCTV, this has just been speculating by the fans.

J .
05-05-2010, 08:41 AM
Canadian freedoms are subject to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.


Which is why we are neither truly free or secure, we only live with the perception of security and misplaced belief in freedom. So because bad situations occur, we limit our freedoms more, not realizing we are giving up our freedoms to an organization with promotes its own group think. Its easier to not give a large organization power than to have them give it up.

To paraphrase, the state at its best is a necessary evil, at its worst, its tyrannical.

Who is to say that giving a corporation more power is better than the government where they hold all the cards?

None of the rules they put in place are because something occured which hurt someone, but because they created a problem and providing their solution, in the end its the supporters that could lose out. We have had worse incidents with security guards and cops at the grounds, than offensive banners or the general public making mistakes. Yet, we have more rules for things that will still happen regardless if they had nets, CCTV or just banned everyone for life?

A lot of the supporters who do provide atmosphere, would have been kicked out by now.

CCTV, nets and all that which as been installed for a much more violent fan base, would solve none of our problems and has NOT curbed any of the problems there.

Imagine if we all had been banned for the 2007 pitch invasion?

Hyprocritical, no?

McBrace
05-05-2010, 08:43 AM
Yup.

All the tantrums and protestations are irrelevant and unecessary.

And for the record, let's remember here that TFC hasn't indicated they ARE putting in CCTV, this has just been speculating by the fans.

Well I sure hope they consider the CCTV option before the netting...I would assume the netting would be the cheapest option..Yet it would solve the issues on the east and west side.

Parkdale
05-05-2010, 08:44 AM
And for the record, let's remember here that TFC hasn't indicated they ARE putting in CCTV, this has just been speculating by the fans.



exactly.

people who throw things AT players will be in trouble. No big loss to me.

the only way this will effect me is how we throw streamers, which isn't that big a deal.
The really only look good in a coordinated effort like at the ncc-montreal kickoff.
Yes it was pretty awesome covering blanco in year one, BUT you can't relive the glory days.

Shaughno
05-05-2010, 08:44 AM
Who's to say they haven't been using CCTV already? I mean does anyone have a definitive answer either way?


...and I'm pretty sure most of the Ex grounds already had CCTV anyway do they not?

Parkdale
05-05-2010, 08:46 AM
Who's to say they haven't been using CCTV already? I mean does anyone have a definitive answer either way?


...and I'm pretty sure most of the Ex grounds already had CCTV anyway do they not?


there are security cameras (aka CCTV) inside BMO, just not in the stands (from what I've seen).

Roogsy
05-05-2010, 08:47 AM
Imagine if we all had been banned for the 2007 pitch invasion?

Technically speaking we could have been but the team but the team allowed it. Which brings up my next point.

At some point you have to give credit where credit is due. The team has been very flexible and very forgiving in many areas of the customer agreement where they had every legal right to come down hard. Among those issues have been the invasion, streamers, banners and drums. TFC has not shown itself to be unreasonable in these regards and to portray them as tyrannical is to simply look for reasons to cast them in a dark light where there is little reason to do so.

That being said, we all admit that security personnel have been overzealous from time to time and from a Red Patch Boy perspective, we know that the team has been willing to discuss with us how to improve on that. We take that as a good sign. If you want to continue viewing the FO as "the enemy" have at it. You won't get a lot of support here.

Parkdale
05-05-2010, 08:52 AM
Technically speaking we could have been but the team but the team allowed it. Which brings up my next point.

At some point you have to give credit where credit is due. The team has been very flexible and very forgiving in many areas of the customer agreement where they had every legal right to come down hard. Among those issues have been the invasion, streamers, banners and drums. TFC has not shown itself to be unreasonable in these regards and to portray them as tyrannical is to simply look for reasons to cast them in a dark light where there is little reason to do so.

That being said, we all admit that security personnel have been overzealous from time to time and from a Red Patch Boy perspective, we know that the team has been willing to discuss with us how to improve on that. We take that as a good sign. If you want to continue viewing the FO as "the enemy" have at it. You won't get a lot of support here.



this post is going up on my wall.

Shaughno
05-05-2010, 08:52 AM
there are security cameras (aka CCTV) inside BMO, just not in the stands (from what I've seen).


Exactly, so I'm not sure what everyone's worried about. Once you walk in the stadium you're on candid camera anyway...

McBrace
05-05-2010, 08:56 AM
this post is going up on my wall.

You mean your office wall at MLSE head office?:D

scooter
05-05-2010, 08:56 AM
hopefully these idiots that get pissed and throw shite are not season seat holders and they are sitting in scalper seats
out go the one timers and scalpers loose their seats so we can buy them next year

bottom line is this needs to happen to send out a message that this kind of idiotic behavour is not part of acceptable football culture

even although we speak out against it now the new rub is that we dont do anything about it and just accept it as part of things so we are to blame too

the red patch boys need to come out loud about this i am sick and tired of reading how we cause shit at the field - i have been in 112 twice this year and all i witnessed was my fellow rpb's singing and chanting for the boys on the field

no problem with fo decision and thanks to paul for heads up and i am sure boris and phil are talking with fo about it too

i guess its time that the " bad apples get tossed "

like they say in texas----you come to texas and kill somebody we are going to kill you right back

maybe we need a banner ---- you come to bmo and throw shit we are going to throw you out forever

Parkdale
05-05-2010, 08:58 AM
You mean your office wall at MLSE head office?:D


head office? I must have gotten a promotion. Too bad it didn't come with a raise.... or maybe there was a raise, but the check seems to still be 'in the mail'.

trane
05-05-2010, 09:02 AM
Technically speaking we could have been but the team but the team allowed it. Which brings up my next point.

At some point you have to give credit where credit is due. The team has been very flexible and very forgiving in many areas of the customer agreement where they had every legal right to come down hard. Among those issues have been the invasion, streamers, banners and drums. TFC has not shown itself to be unreasonable in these regards and to portray them as tyrannical is to simply look for reasons to cast them in a dark light where there is little reason to do so.

That being said, we all admit that security personnel have been overzealous from time to time and from a Red Patch Boy perspective, we know that the team has been willing to discuss with us how to improve on that. We take that as a good sign. If you want to continue viewing the FO as "the enemy" have at it. You won't get a lot of support here.

But what if you need an enemy? Who is it then?????? Sure Parky, but there has to be more.

trane
05-05-2010, 09:04 AM
head office? I must have gotten a promotion. Too bad it didn't come with a raise.... or maybe there was a raise, but the check seems to still be 'in the mail'.


Ha-HA- SO YOU DO WORK for MLSE???????

KdotOdot
05-05-2010, 09:06 AM
LOL

man. this is awesome. I WISH they had CCTV for a few scumbag security asshole incidents.

Lemme ask a question to MLS Toronto here, or Paul, because I know him so well.

What will the policy be for reverse information? Like if some asshole juice pig security scumbag decides to throw me a beating because I accidently bumped into him and spilled some beer? I mean I'm a slight individual and would in no way offer any rsistence. If this were to happen to me could I rely on the CCTV to assist with my lawsuit?

trane
05-05-2010, 09:08 AM
^ Dude what secutiry guard would be able to give you a beating???? Maybe I did not see them, maybe they are in 112, because to be honest the ones I have seen, IF I wanted to be an idiot I could handle ( cops are a different story).

Parkdale
05-05-2010, 09:09 AM
Ha-HA- SO YOU DO WORK for MLSE???????


:rolleyes:

if only. I wonder what they pay?

ExiledRed
05-05-2010, 09:09 AM
I'm still waiting to hear about how being filmed at BMO impinges upon my freedom, or how the footage may be used against me.

People keep raising the issue, and talking about rights and freedoms and all this other stuff that seems very unrelated to me, I just wish they'd back the argument up a bit so maybe we can understand what rights and liberties are at stake here.